From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 00:57:40 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:41 2005 Subject: Barely on-topic Message-ID: <01be1cf7$e3097420$e28ea6d1@the-general> >First, check if there's a fish stuck in your laptop. Second, have you >looked closely at the controller card to see if there is any obvious >melting of parts, or blackened spots? Check each component for excessive >heat (excessive meaning if you touch it and it instantly burns your >finger). Have you tried the hard drive in another machine? Be careful, >if the hard drive is at fault here you may end up frying fish with another >controller card. > I've found that the fish smell is from some capacitors on the controller. There's no sign of overheating, other than a few plastic labels (on the chips) are a bit curled on the ends. I really have no way of testing the HD, since it's one of those weird 26-pin type like the Zenith laptops used to use. The only other computer that I have that it may work in is an old WANG WLTC, and the drive in it is 10 MB, and made by JVC, where the one in the Tandy is an Alps. I think that the HD controller was one of the 1400's faults (other than the power supply). I've already worked on two 1400's with blown P/S's and HD controllers. What I've noticed is that the HD controller will quit, then the power supply will blow out (usually a microfuse). The 1400HD was basically just a 1400FD with a factory-installed HD upgrade kit. I currently have the floppy from the second 1400 in the one I'm trying to fix, but there's some stuff on the HD that I'd like to get off of it, but have no way of doing so. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 01:00:52 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:43 2005 Subject: Barely on-topic Message-ID: <01be1cf8$55850280$e28ea6d1@the-general> >Hmm.. This should be easy. Install /bin/cat. The cat, as usual, will eat >the fish. > Haven't tried that yet, but the /bin/cat/ folder is on the unaccessable HD... >Seriously, something is overheating. If you can get to the board with it >in the machine, can you detect any semiconductor that's too hot. Where >does the smell seem to be coming from - the HD controller, the machine's >PSU, or where? > I'm figuring that the smell is coming from the HD controller board, getting sucked through the P/S's tiny 1" fan, and blown out the top of the computer. The HD controller is plugged in right next to the P/S. I think one of the chips on the HD controller blew, because it was one of the common ailments of the 1400. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 01:07:42 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:45 2005 Subject: Sim VGA? Message-ID: <01be1cf9$4a1b7360$e28ea6d1@the-general> >> >> Hi! >> I know that there's a program to make a Hercules Mono monitor emulate a CGA, >> but is there a program that will allow a CGA emulate an EGA or VGA? > >That's rather like asking if a PC/XT can emulate a 386. Well I don't see why some sort of software could make a CGA emulate a VGA. Or a video card that would be VGA, but drive a CGA monitor, since the video card in my Pentium will drive a composite Apple monitor at 640x480 16.million colors. I basically want to get better graphics from the programs that I use on my laptops (most are CGA). I'm usually stuck in text mode, 2-color CGA, but even EGA would be better, and getting a new video card and monitor just isn't an option. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 2 00:41:21 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:45 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981130202626.00717194@207.98.129.100> from "Neil B. Sheldon Sr" at Nov 30, 98 08:26:26 pm Message-ID: <199812010641.WAA27378@saul3.u.washington.edu> Hi, I'm the moderator of the CLASSICCMP list. In order to subscribe, you need to send a message to listproc@u.washington.edu You need not put in a subject, but this line must be in the message: subscribe classiccmp ______ Except instead of underlines, write your name, like this: subscribe classiccmp Abraham Lincoln Make sure there's no signature at the end of the message -- only the command should be there. You'll get a confirmation message from the software; reply to that, and you're subscribed! The account you use to subscribe is the one that the software will send messages to. -- Derek From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 1 00:54:31 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:48 2005 Subject: OT: Halloween Papers References: <01be1cf9$4a1b7360$e28ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <366392A7.E1C8AB19@rain.org> Just ran across this subject, and found it rather interesting for a lot of reasons. MS bashing aside, it provides an interesting look at what goes into marketing strategies. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 2 00:57:52 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:48 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812010641.WAA27378@saul3.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Nov 30, 98 10:41:21 pm Message-ID: <199812010657.WAA28987@saul3.u.washington.edu> Oops... that was supposed to go to the original sender, not the list. Didn't I see something about how it's possible to "subscribe" by sending mail to the list itself (rather than the list processor), except that that isn't the same as a normal subscription? If someone could clue me in, I'd be very grateful. -- Derek From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Dec 1 00:01:02 1998 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:48 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <012a01be1cf0$079533e0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, 1 December 1998 16:00 Subject: Re: DG Aviion video >The green connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with >you. Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" >I at least knew that much. (: I was given a fat wodge of QIC tapes and >DG/UX 5.4R3 at least was included as well as some older versions and >possibly one newer. Did better than me, I just got the bare boxes, no mice, no monitors, no keyboards, no docs. >Not surprising; they're an Intel/NT shop now for the most part. q: How >boring. How right! >> is the same connector as on a Sun, but not sure if the Sun mouse would >> work or not, and I don't have one to try. > >Outwardly they are identical. Both are Mouse Systems optical mice >(although the DG mouse doesn't say so). I dismantled the DG mouse and a >spare Sun type-4 mouse to make sure, but the electronics and signalaling >are wildly different. From cord conductor-count alone, I'd say the DG >mouse is quadrature and the Sun mouse is serial. Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun mice are $$ but at least you can get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of the appropriate rodentia? >It is the same connector as on a Sun mouse, though. Trap for the unwary I suppose. Thanks for the info. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax) From yowza at yowza.com Tue Dec 1 00:57:19 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812010641.WAA27378@saul3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > I'm the moderator of the CLASSICCMP list. Hey, Derek, there's a big different between being a list *moderator* and list *maintainer*. Which is it? (And, BTW, thanks for saving the list if it's the latter :-) And what's the story with the old ClassicCmp website? I've never seen it myself. -- Doug From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Tue Dec 1 00:16:16 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 model Message-ID: <001e01be1cf2$1b3257a0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Max Eskin wrote: >I saw an odd machine in a thrift store today, a machine labelled a PS/1, but it >looked nothing like the PS/1 valuepoints, or any other PC I've ever seen. It >looked like a cross between a PCjr and a soap dish. One 3.5" floppy drive, huge >ugly vents and IBM logo on the front, on the back are ports for mouse, >keyboard, VGA, 2400 bps modem, and parallel printer. It also has a little fan >and some sort of slot cover that fell out. Where is the power switch? Where >does the power connect to? That's the original PS/1, a 286 with an almost totally closed architecture. Needs the special monitor to give it power. I happened to pick up a lone monitor like this last week. Pity I'm in Australia though. I've only seen a couple of these around here in the last few years. Hans Olminkhof From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 1 02:59:19 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 1, 98 00:57:19 am Message-ID: <199812010859.AAA15566@saul3.u.washington.edu> > Hey, Derek, there's a big different between being a list *moderator* and > list *maintainer*. Which is it? (And, BTW, thanks for saving the list if > it's the latter :-) Oh, such gratitude. You don't want me to moderate the list, just maintain it? Hmph. Anyway, I'm currently the list owner. That means that the listproc software lets me do useful things that normal people can't do. (I think there's one other level above me -- list manager -- and I think I'm not allowed to change certain things. For example, unless I'm wrong, we have alternate addresses disabled, so you can't subscribe from one address and have messages sent to another. And I don't think I can change that.) The main benefit of my role is that the UW is now appeased, because they don't have to run the list any more... I get to do that. :) But you're right; the list is currently set to "unmoderated". I could set it to "moderated" if everybody REALLY wants, and then messages would take longer to go through! Or we could just stay on topic voluntarily. :) > And what's the story with the old ClassicCmp website? I've never seen it > myself. I'm trying to extract the CD from Bill Whitson. Unfortunately, his car broke down last week, so it hasn't happened yet. (More importantly, I don't have the Apple //e I was gonna get from him.) Although he told me, "I hate cars.", we just had a freak accident here in which someone shot a bus driver and the bus toppled over the side of a bridge, bounced off an apartment building, and crunched into the ground. So cars are looking pretty good right now. :) -- Derek From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 1 04:07:38 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812010859.AAA15566@saul3.u.washington.edu> References: from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 1, 98 00:57:19 am Message-ID: <199812010908.JAA08590@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> > Unfortunately, his car broke > down last week, so it hasn't happened yet. (More importantly, I don't have > the Apple //e I was gonna get from him.) Although he told me, "I hate cars.", > we just had a freak accident here in which someone shot a bus driver and the > bus toppled over the side of a bridge, bounced off an apartment building, and > crunched into the ground. So cars are looking pretty good right now. :) Just for my couriosity, where do you live ? Kongo, Africa ? ("this is a loded grenade - drive me to Rome !" ?) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 1 03:13:19 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812010908.JAA08590@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 1, 98 10:08:38 am Message-ID: <199812010913.BAA07404@saul3.u.washington.edu> > Just for my couriosity, where do you live ? Kongo, Africa ? > ("this is a loded grenade - drive me to Rome !" ?) No, I live in Seattle, Washington, USA! (I go to the same school that Bill Whitson -- the previous moderator -- worked for.) -- Derek From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Dec 1 03:27:10 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: networking newbie Message-ID: >> A friend of mine at a large company (whose initials are International >> Business Machine, but you didn't hear that from me 8-) had to route traffic >> between Token Ring and Ethernet. NT didn't work (no surprise there), Hmm, I had exactly the same trouble. Worked fine on a linux machine routing between our company token ring and a couple of SGI Origin servers on 100 meg ethernet, but NT wasn't having any of it. Unfortunately I seem to be the only person here who has any real Unix skills, so Linux was out of the question for the router. I ended up writing a Java application to relay socket connections on the NT machine that sat between the ethernet and token ring, so at least HTTP and Telnet would work - FTP had to be done as a two-stage process... cheers Jules >(sorry for OT) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 1 05:08:51 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812010913.BAA07404@saul3.u.washington.edu> References: <199812010908.JAA08590@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 1, 98 10:08:38 am Message-ID: <199812011009.KAA20057@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date sent: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:13:19 -0800 (PST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "D. Peschel" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP > > Just for my couriosity, where do you live ? Kongo, Africa ? > > ("this is a loded grenade - drive me to Rome !" ?) > > No, I live in Seattle, Washington, USA! (I go to the same school that Bill > Whitson -- the previous moderator -- worked for.) I never heared of such a thing over here. Shooting a bus driver ? The last time I remember was I think 1972 at the Munich Olypics, at the masacre on the airport (you may remember the terrorist attack) - and of course similar things had hapend in the Bosinan war. But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle to be a 'regular' safe place. (No, don't lets start the weapon thread again :) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Dec 1 03:45:28 1998 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts Message-ID: <802566CD.003A653A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Possibly. But I distinctly recall that when we recorded tapes for sale >> using the tape deck from my Sanyo stereo (not on a PET BTW - this was a BBC >> micro) we found that Dolby noise reduction had to be disabled for it to >> work... > > Did you try recroding with Dolby and then replaying on a machine with > Dolby noise reduction (turned on), or replaying on the normal cheap > cassette recorder that you use with computers? If the former, then I am > not suprised it didn't work - the frequency response would have been > rather odd. The latter should have worked, though. We didn't try recording with Dolby and playing back without. I'd be very surprised if that worked (did you mean it that way round). I can't remember if we recorded with and played back with - I imagine that would work - but we definitely couldn't get it to work recording without and playing back with, although this actually works quite well for music. > I would be suprised if you couldn't make a CD that could be loaded. I > can't try it because I have no way of writing to a CD. I never meant to imply that you couldn't make a CD that could be loaded. What I meant was you probably have to be more sophisticated than old cassette -> digitised audio -> audio CD. I'd recommend old cassette -> signal restoration -> digital signal (0s and 1s sampled at some highish speed) -> possibly prefilter to pre-emptively undo the CD player's output filter -> digitised audio -> audio CD. For PET (and family) tapes a C2N would probably make a good cassette machine for playing it initially, since it does some of the signal restoration itself. Philip. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 1 05:19:51 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812011009.KAA20057@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 1, 98 11:09:51 am Message-ID: <199812011119.DAA18609@saul7.u.washington.edu> > I never heared of such a thing over here. Shooting a bus driver ? > The last time I remember was I think 1972 at the Munich Olypics, > at the masacre on the airport (you may remember the terrorist > attack) - and of course similar things had hapend in the Bosinan > war. But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle > to be a 'regular' safe place. I don't think this sort of thing has happened here in decades. Seattle is still very safe, though it's slowly becoming more like a "real" big city, instead of the charming small city it used to be, unfortunately. Your mail server may be acting up again (I got some sort of error message, which I think I erased). -- Derek From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Tue Dec 1 06:58:25 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention In-Reply-To: <199812010404.AA05766@world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Nov 30, 98 11:04:46 pm" Message-ID: <199812011258.HAA00408@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > < > (Oh and an HSC50 whatever the heck that is!) > < > < Hierarchical Storage Controller. > < Waist high filing cabinet sized box, HEAVY too. > < Basically, it's a PDP8 I think, running a little o/s called CRONIC > > PDP11, used the T-11 chip. NOT PDP-8. > > I believe CRONIC was an application (control program) and ran under a > truncated version of RT-11. > > Allison If so, it wasn't what we were told in Field Service. I'm not too sure about CRONIC being an application. I heard rumors of it being the entire HSC OS and rumors of the use of MicroPower Pascal. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Tue Dec 1 07:00:35 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention In-Reply-To: <981130224057.2de00192@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at "Nov 30, 98 10:40:57 pm" Message-ID: <199812011300.IAA00429@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > >I've got an 8530 and it's console here. It's a Pro380 IIRC. > >It's front panel is marked Vaxconsole, but it has Pro380 on it somewhere > >else > >I think.... I'll have a look... > > At least on the North American models, there's a UL/CSA sticker near > the power jack with the model designation (i.e. "PC380-AA"). > > It certainly could've been a Pro 350 that originally shipped with the > Venus. The ones I've seen are 380's, but I don't know if they're > original or not. Since *the* definitive RT-11 Pro expert is on this > list, I'm certain we'll get a good answer soon :-) > > As long as we're on the topic, anyone have a Ethernet card for the > Pro that they'd like to sell? I'm willing to pay CA$H! (The goal > is to put Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP for RT-11 on a Pro and run a web server.) > My mind slipped. The Pro350 was used on the 85xx. The Venus (8650) used a special board with a T-11 chip and an RL controller... As far as the Pro ethernet... I'd kill for one too. Bill From gram at cnct.com Tue Dec 1 07:49:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: OT: Halloween Papers References: <01be1cf9$4a1b7360$e28ea6d1@the-general> <366392A7.E1C8AB19@rain.org> Message-ID: <3663F3E5.24D62E69@cnct.com> Marvin wrote: > > Just ran across this subject, and found it rather interesting for a lot of > reasons. MS bashing aside, it provides an interesting look at what goes > into marketing strategies. > > Yes, Eric did a good job on those. (Funny how you can know somebody for years, hanging out together at science fiction conventions and discussing libertarian political theory, then you see his name on the cover of _The New Hacker's Dictionary_ and realise that he's not only a bigger computer geek than you are, but he's famous for it). -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From mbg at world.std.com Tue Dec 1 08:20:30 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention Message-ID: <199812011420.AA23302@world.std.com> >As far as the Pro ethernet... I'd kill for one too. The part you need is the DECNA... I might just have one (maybe two). I'll have to check... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From gram at cnct.com Tue Dec 1 08:25:52 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: networking newbie References: Message-ID: <3663FC70.D86141F2@cnct.com> Julian Richardson wrote: > > >> A friend of mine at a large company (whose initials are International > >> Business Machine, but you didn't hear that from me 8-) had to route traffic > >> between Token Ring and Ethernet. NT didn't work (no surprise there), > > Hmm, I had exactly the same trouble. Worked fine on a linux machine > routing between our company token ring and a couple of SGI Origin > servers on 100 meg ethernet, but NT wasn't having any of it. > Unfortunately I seem to be the only person here who has any real Unix > skills, so Linux was out of the question for the router. I ended up > writing a Java application to relay socket connections on the NT machine > that sat between the ethernet and token ring, so at least HTTP and > Telnet would work - FTP had to be done as a two-stage process... Now let me get this straight. You say Linux worked -- that implies that it was in place at one point, then NT was put in there and that NT didn't work. Aside from the opportunity to make yourself indispensable by being the only one with Unix skills (not that a dedicated Linux server needs much maintenance -- my Samba server has rebooted three times in four years due to power outages -- it's working, I don't mess with it except to edit files for mounting NFS filesystems and sharing them to my wife's Windows boxen) (by the way, who set up the Linux router?), you then wrote a _Java_ program to do what should be handled by something two or three layers down? Be ashamed. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Dec 1 08:23:27 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> I have repaired literally hundreds of HP II's and HP III's over the past 10 years. The paper feed problem you mention is a piece of cake to repair (replace) and the parts are readily available at a very low price. Following are the parts you need: HP P/N RG1-0931-060CN FEED ROLLER ASSEMBLY HP P/N RF1-1145-020CN SEPARATION PAD SOURCES FOR ABOVE PARTS: Atlantis 1-800-733-9155 (Norcross, GA) Impact Sales 1-800-280-4521 (Madison, WI- ask for Don) PC Service Source 1-800-727-2787 (Dallas, TX) Printer Works 1-800-235-6116 (Hayward, CA) I will supply you with tech support to replace these parts. Email me: marty@itgonline.com You will need to remove the top cover, front support plate and dc power supply. Removal of the high voltage power supply is recommended to facilitate access to the left screw holding the feed roller assembly but you can snake a screwdriver in without a problem. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/30/98 11:50 PM On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > This is a couple of months off topic,but I'll post it anyway. At my school, > there are a couple dozen Laserjet Series IIs. I've been trying to install > four into one room, and for some reason almost every single one claims a paper > jam right as soon as I tell it to print ( a self test, for example). The paper > hardly gets out of the tray, it's generally just starting to get past the Ahhh, yes.. this one I know well. The company whose time clock I punch has about three dozen of these old guys in a store room.. they all have the same problem.. and it is: the very front set of rollers (the pick-and-feed rollers) over the paper tray have become hardened and non-gummy with age. The fix is: replace the rollers. The problem is: no rollers available. The solution: give them up for adoption, and when nobody wants them... well, you know the rest. One could kludge together something to go around the old rollers, but the sveral things I tried just didn't perform reliably, mainly causing double and/or multiple feeds... They they brough me a brand-new modern HP 4L and I quit being frustrated by the old one. Cheers John ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov30.235024.1767.81114; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:50:25 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA07884; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:48:08 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA28442 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:48:00 -0800 Received: from netcom11.netcom.com (jpl15@netcom11.netcom.com [192.100.81.121]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id UAA21 188 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:47:59 -0800 Received: (from jpl15@localhost) by netcom11.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id UAA24075; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:42:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:42:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Lawson To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <98113019113300.00619@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Dec 1 08:38:55 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: networking newbie Message-ID: >> Now let me get this straight. You say Linux worked -- that implies >> that it was in place at one point, then NT was put in there and that >> NT didn't work. Ah, but there's the problem. NT - about a day to get set up and working (or not at all in this case!). Needs lots of hardware. Costs lots. Linux - about an hour to set up, runs on old Pentium 60's (yes, I know it runs fast even on 486 machines, but in this case a P60 was all that was around and free). Doesn't cost anything. Management - "oh, that's quite impressive. But we don't know anything about Unix, but do know NT, so we have to stick with that". Not that I'm rather stressed out at the way the computing industry blindly follows the big players round (sarcasm mode is on here, folks!) - but I run up against this brick wall time after time. People high up in a company see something as a risk unless they have to invest lots of time and money in puchasing it and supporting it - they just don't seem to feel safe if the product in question is low-cost (or free!) and runs itself without any trouble, even if such "features" are rammed down their throats. It's a very scary industry. >> you then wrote a _Java_ program to do >> what should be handled by something two or three layers down? yup, took about 30 minutes too. I got fed up with NT wanting to reboot every ten minutes, the PC taking five minutes to boot, the 32x-speed-all-the-bells-and-whistles CDROM drive taking a minute to spin up to speed before I could access it to install software... I'm sure most of you have been there! cheers Jules > From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Tue Dec 1 08:43:25 1998 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention Message-ID: <01be1d38$f38f9540$0100005a@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pechter To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, 2 December 1998 0:32 Subject: Re: VAX collectors attention >> At least on the North American models, there's a UL/CSA sticker near >> the power jack with the model designation (i.e. "PC380-AA"). Yup. I just looked. It's a 380. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Dec 1 10:19:16 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Marty wrote: > I have repaired literally hundreds of HP II's and HP III's over the > past 10 years. The paper feed problem you mention is a piece of cake > to repair (replace) and the parts are readily available at a very low > price. Following are the parts you need: > > HP P/N RG1-0931-060CN FEED ROLLER ASSEMBLY > > HP P/N RF1-1145-020CN SEPARATION PAD > > SOURCES FOR ABOVE PARTS: > > Atlantis 1-800-733-9155 (Norcross, GA) > > Impact Sales 1-800-280-4521 (Madison, WI- ask for Don) > > PC Service Source 1-800-727-2787 (Dallas, TX) > > Printer Works 1-800-235-6116 (Hayward, CA) Ya know.. this is what I get for even *dealing* with our MIS (Mostly Incompetent Shi*theads) dept... you'd think after 10 years with the same company I'd learn... I should have researched the roller prob myself.... Anyway... I'm going to offer to take all those 'dead' HP IIs off the company's hands, and then *fix* the damn things, and **sell** them... or trade them for Stuff... the last time they dumpstered a whole storeroom I got tons of swappable Stuff.. woo hoo! I love Surplus!! Thanks VeryVery much for the roller and parts supplier info.. Cheers John From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Tue Dec 1 10:30:19 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > NT - about a day to get set up and working (or not at all in this > case!). Needs lots of hardware. Costs lots. Answers: They're paying me to sit there and work on the systems. I get to play with even *more* hardware, and I'm even able to request *specifically* what I want under the umbrella that it has to be "NT-Compatible". And I'm not paying for any of it, so who gives a rat's ass if some corporate blow-hard has his head so far in his rectum that he wants to run NT. Besides, NT is a character builder like losing a limb to frostbite or having your house burn down. > Linux - about an hour to set up, runs on old Pentium 60's (yes, I know > it runs fast even on 486 machines, but in this case a P60 was all that > was around and free). Doesn't cost anything. It's all relative. Linux on a 486 seems much faster on a 486 than Windows 95, for sure. But it's not fast compared to FreeBSD on a PII 450 with 256megs of ram. I tend a flock that has several Linux machines, running as mission-critical http/ftp/mail/proxy servers on fast PII machines with lots of ram. They kick some serious ass. As [often more] stable, fast, and full featured as the Solaris and SCO machines we have running. And much less expensive, yes. In fact, I'm SSH'd into one right now to type this reply... > Management - "oh, that's quite impressive. But we don't know anything > about Unix, but do know NT, so we have to stick with that". I am *literally* the only person in my company who can do a thing in Unix besides get a directory listing. Any time there's so much as a hiccup in the system, I get called. On vacations, in the middle of the night, on the toilet; no rest for the indespensible. And since I'm not a cutthroat, I can't walk in to the boss and demand "2K a year or I walk..." Basically, being indispensible sucks unless you've got the balls to really use it to your advantage. > itself without any trouble, even if such "features" are rammed down > their throats. It's a very scary industry. I'm doing some consulting work for a local community college as a favor to a buddy of mine who's a chemistry prof there, virtually for free (they have me on the Elbonian payscale, like $9 an hour, aka beer money) and I am having a great time arguing with their IS department over putting either a Linux or FreeBSD box up as the server for a lab-verification system. They claimed that "Unix was not supported on the campus" and that "the only Unix system anywhere around was too expensive to have maintained." "Besides," they told me, "NT is so much more stable and secure." My natural follow up question: "What system runs Unix?" "The administration system with staff payroll and all student records and grades." > up to speed before I could access it to install software... I'm sure > most of you have been there! Long reboots are the bane of the users, not mine. And again, I get paid for being there so if they want to run up my timecard with NT and PC's, it their prerogitive. If I can't get something to work right, I grab my company credit card and call Microsoft's tech support at $75 a hit. If they tell me something can't be done with NT, I document it and submit a workaround solution to management, which more often than not involves wiping NT and installing a free Unix... Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Tue Dec 1 10:47:19 1998 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: Barely on-topic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > comes up), then stops, and starts emitting a fish-like smell. I pull the > > controller entirely, and it works fine (with no fish smell). > > > > Any suggestions (other than getting one from RadioShack)? > > > This one's easy to fix: > > 1) open the case > 2) put on your anti-static wrist strap > 3) remove the trout > 4) re-assemble the case It may not be a fish at all. Missing any underwear or socks? It could also be a leftover Tuna salad on rye. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion http://www.ibmhelp.com/ ICQ: 10742063 AIM: FathomS36 From amirault at epix.net Tue Dec 1 11:05:45 1998 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II References: <98113019113300.00619@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <366421E9.9E3184DC@epix.net> Max, How old are the machines? When is the last time they were CLEANED? I am no genius but the idea of CLEANING the rollers is, to me, a good one. Hope this suggustion helps you. John Amirault Max Eskin wrote: > This is a couple of months off topic,but I'll post it anyway. At my school, > there are a couple dozen Laserjet Series IIs. I've been trying to install > four into one room, and for some reason almost every single one claims a paper > jam right as soon as I tell it to print ( a self test, for example). The paper > hardly gets out of the tray, it's generally just starting to get past the > roller that pulls it in when the printer returns an error. Sometimes it does > this, sometimes it doesn't. Any ideas? > > Thanks From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 1 13:10:02 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: FSOT: HP 9815 (aka 9000 216) Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981201131002.2effdb5e@intellistar.net> Hi, I need to clean up some of the excess around here before Christmas so I'm offering a HP 9816 computer for sale or trade for the best offer. I have another and need to get this one out of the way. The 9816 is the smallest of the HP 9000 series 200 computers and has a 68000 CPU. It runs BASIC, HPL and/or Pascal. This one works fine but is missing the top cover and some of the keytops for the keyboard. The switchs are intact so tops can robbed from another HP keyboard and simply plugged in. It does include the original small keyboard. These keyboards are rare since most users bought the bigger HP 98203 keybaord. For more information, look at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp9000.htm". Joe From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 1 11:17:08 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: networking newbie References: Message-ID: <36642494.24942647@rain.org> Julian Richardson wrote: > > Not that I'm rather stressed out at the way the computing industry > blindly follows the big players round (sarcasm mode is on here, folks!) > - but I run up against this brick wall time after time. People high up > in a company see something as a risk unless they have to invest lots of > time and money in puchasing it and supporting it - they just don't seem > to feel safe if the product in question is low-cost (or free!) and runs > itself without any trouble, even if such "features" are rammed down > their throats. It's a very scary industry. The Halloween Papers showed one of the strategies was to attack the process rather than the implementation; sounds like that is what you are up against. And on the same topic, didn't DECUS provide free (or low cost) software applications? Did the same mentality apply to that, or did the letters "DEC" tend to give more credibility to that software? From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Dec 1 11:23:20 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <1998Dec01.122149.1767.165060@smtp.itgonline.com> A word of caution on replacing parts on these SX printers: when you reseat the connector for the main motor to the DC Power Supply, make certain the snap connector 'snaps' and that it isn't doesn't feel 'mushy' or you may discover you have a false main motor error (error code 54 I believe) after having buttoned up the printer. Reseat the connector at least twice. Before replacing the top cover power it up, there are no interlocks involved and you needn't have the control panel attached to run an engine test. On the left or right side (I forget which side) bottom of the HP II you will see a hole about 1/8" in diameter. If you press the rubber membrane covered microswitch inside the hole the engine test will run and print a sheet with finely spaced parallel lines running longitudinally on the copy. This will verify the main motor connector was reseated properly and that the feed roller was replaced properly. On an SX (HP II, III, IID and IIID) engine always reseat these snap connectors prior to replacing parts such as the laser scanner (reseat both at the scanner and dc controller, and all sensors at the dc controller. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/1/98 11:22 AM On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Marty wrote: > I have repaired literally hundreds of HP II's and HP III's over the > past 10 years. The paper feed problem you mention is a piece of cake > to repair (replace) and the parts are readily available at a very low > price. Following are the parts you need: > > HP P/N RG1-0931-060CN FEED ROLLER ASSEMBLY > > HP P/N RF1-1145-020CN SEPARATION PAD > > SOURCES FOR ABOVE PARTS: > > Atlantis 1-800-733-9155 (Norcross, GA) > > Impact Sales 1-800-280-4521 (Madison, WI- ask for Don) > > PC Service Source 1-800-727-2787 (Dallas, TX) > > Printer Works 1-800-235-6116 (Hayward, CA) Ya know.. this is what I get for even *dealing* with our MIS (Mostly Incompetent Shi*theads) dept... you'd think after 10 years with the same company I'd learn... I should have researched the roller prob myself.... Anyway... I'm going to offer to take all those 'dead' HP IIs off the company's hands, and then *fix* the damn things, and **sell** them... or trade them for Stuff... the last time they dumpstered a whole storeroom I got tons of swappable Stuff.. woo hoo! I love Surplus!! Thanks VeryVery much for the roller and parts supplier info.. Cheers John ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec01.112204.1767.81227; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:22:05 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id IAA22869; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:19:41 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA29406 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:19:26 -0800 Received: from netcom4.netcom.com (jpl15@netcom4.netcom.com [192.100.81.107]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id IAA17 482 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:19:23 -0800 Received: (from jpl15@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id IAA12239; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:19:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:19:16 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Lawson To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 1 11:44:30 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:50 2005 Subject: Decus (was Re: networking newbie Message-ID: <981201124430.2de00235@trailing-edge.com> >And on the same topic, didn't DECUS provide free (or low cost) software >applications? Did the same mentality apply to that, or did the letters "DEC" >tend to give more credibility to that software? DECUS distributes (and has distributed) software that others wrote and put into the public domain. *Very* roughly speaking, DECUS-distributed software can be split into two groups: 1. Software that DEC employees wrote on DEC time, and which DEC put into the public domain so that DECUS could distribute it. BLISS-32 is a recent example. Often these are tools that were used internally to DEC for development purposes, which they don't want to turn into commercially supported products, but they recognize the great usefulness of these tools. 2. Software that random ordinary users wrote and gave to DECUS to distribute. Keep in mind that "random ordinary users" in the 1960's or 1970's often means something very different than it does today. Also, DECUS is a different organization today than it was 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. You might want to browse through the VMS-oriented DECUS submissions at http://www.decus.org/ , or the PDP-11 oriented DECUS submissions at http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/decus/ and view the wide range of stuff available, and the wide range of sources that it comes from! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Dec 1 11:55:57 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <1998Dec01.122913.1767.165073@smtp.itgonline.com> Cleaning is an admirable thing to do but don't use alcohol. Use distilled water and a lint free cloth. Moreover, on an SX based printer (the HP II was introduced in 1987 I believe) cleaning the feed roller and separation pad may do the trick but I doubt it. The feed roller becomes glazed and hard and usually rubber restorer won't help. In most cases it turns out to be a glazed roller and/or a sticky clutch which is located on the end of the feed roller. I used to rebuild the clutches on these in the field (it is a 20 minute job at best, you need to disassemble the clutch, clean out the old contaminated lubriplate from the clutch spring, then reapply lubriplate and make certain you align the feed roller with the clutch cam) but these whole unit replacements are so cheap nowadays I wouldn't bother. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/1/98 12:05 PM Max, How old are the machines? When is the last time they were CLEANED? I am no genius but the idea of CLEANING the rollers is, to me, a good one. Hope this suggustion helps you. John Amirault Max Eskin wrote: > This is a couple of months off topic,but I'll post it anyway. At my school, > there are a couple dozen Laserjet Series IIs. I've been trying to install > four into one room, and for some reason almost every single one claims a paper > jam right as soon as I tell it to print ( a self test, for example). The paper > hardly gets out of the tray, it's generally just starting to get past the > roller that pulls it in when the printer returns an error. Sometimes it does > this, sometimes it doesn't. Any ideas? > > Thanks ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec01.120520.1767.81238; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:05:20 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id JAA03937; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:03:05 -0800 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA30614 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:02:52 -0800 Received: from lima.epix.net (lima.epix.net [199.224.64.56]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id JAA23 476 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:02:51 -0800 Received: from epix.net (mtrs-244ppp230.epix.net [205.238.244.230]) by lima.epix.net (8.9.0/8.9.0/1998093001/Philippe Levan) with ESMTP id MAA16564 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:02:48 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <366421E9.9E3184DC@epix.net> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:05:45 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Amirault To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II References: <98113019113300.00619@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: "John Amirault" (Unverified) X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 1 12:08:57 1998 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: PrinterWorks (Hayward, CA) has (or HAD? could anything that good not have been discontinued?) "catalogs" for the CX and SX series laser printers. Besides some basic discussion, they have exploded views and part number identification. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Dec 1 12:24:46 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <1998Dec01.132417.1767.165105@smtp.itgonline.com> Strange but true: the CX engine predated the SX engine by several years yet Printer Works didn't produce a CX catalog until several years after their SX catalog. Yes the SX catalog is fantastic. The SX catalog has exploded views and covers every flavor of SX printer from an HP to Canon (that actually makes the engine) to Singer and Apple (Laserwriter II series), etc. The main difference between models being the I/O Formatter board. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/1/98 1:12 PM PrinterWorks (Hayward, CA) has (or HAD? could anything that good not have been discontinued?) "catalogs" for the CX and SX series laser printers. Besides some basic discussion, they have exploded views and part number identification. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec01.131218.1767.81274; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:12:18 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA07990; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:10:08 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA17402 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:08:58 -0800 Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark-fas1.lanminds.com [208.25.68.5]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA27 721 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:08:58 -0800 Received: from lana (lana [140.174.208.211]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA25235 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:08:57 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: cisin@lana X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 1 13:22:29 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: (message from Aaron Christopher Finney on Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:30:19 References: Message-ID: <19981201192229.14128.qmail@brouhaha.com> Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > And since I'm not a cutthroat, I > can't walk in to the boss and demand "2K a year or I walk..." I'll gladly offer you a job at 2K a year maintaining my Linux and FreeBSD systems. I do it myself now, but it takes more of my time than I'd like (between 16 and 32 hours a month). :-) From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Dec 1 13:18:56 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: John Amirault's message of Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:05:45 -0500 References: <98113019113300.00619@localhost.localdomain> <366421E9.9E3184DC@epix.net> Message-ID: <199812011918.LAA28576@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Amirault wrote: > How old are the machines? When is the last time they were CLEANED? I am no > genius but the idea of CLEANING the rollers is, to me, a good one. Hope this > suggustion helps you. Cleaning helps -- if the rollers have picked up dirt it will make it harder for them to pick up paper. But the fundamental problem is that rubber ages and gets hard. Once upon a time (mid-1980s) some of the HP CEs used to carry an aromatic fluid they called "Fedron" which was good for restoring the gumminess of hard rubber rollers. I saw them use it on 2601 (Diablo 630) platen rollers and the little roller in the 2619 chain printer (a Dataproducts something) that drives one of the paper-jam detectors (roller not turning => paper not moving => paper jam, and when this one got hard enough that the paper just slid over it without turning it you got one frustrated computer operator). Is this stuff still available, or did it get banned because it's bad for the ozone layer? Not sure it would work for LJ II pickup rollers, they're a softer rubber. Nor am I sure what the fluid did, for all I know it stripped off a layer of the rubber. -Frank McConnell From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Tue Dec 1 13:42:44 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: <19981201192229.14128.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 1 Dec 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > I'll gladly offer you a job at 2K a year maintaining my Linux and FreeBSD > systems. I do it myself now, but it takes more of my time than I'd like > (between 16 and 32 hours a month). Oops...it seems I forgot a couple of zeros. No wonder I'm so broke... From Dean.Nelson at lmco.com Tue Dec 1 13:50:18 1998 From: Dean.Nelson at lmco.com (Dean A. Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <012a01be1cf0$079533e0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <000b01be1d63$d4460900$2893f6c6@eng1> >>The green connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with >>you. > >Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" > > >>I at least knew that much. (: I was given a fat wodge of QIC tapes and >>DG/UX 5.4R3 at least was included as well as some older versions and >>possibly one newer. > >Did better than me, I just got the bare boxes, no mice, no monitors, no >keyboards, no docs. I've got 2 AV410s for sale and a DG 17" Monitor for the AV410s (RGB. The monitor should work just fine with your 310. If you're intersted, make a bid. See the posting from yesterday. Dean Nelson From kurtkilgor at geocities.com Tue Dec 1 15:18:19 1998 From: kurtkilgor at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP References: <199812011009.KAA20057@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: <98120116205100.00534@localhost.localdomain> Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many injured/killed? >I never heared of such a thing over here. Shooting a bus driver ? >The last time I remember was I think 1972 at the Munich Olypics, >at the masacre on the airport (you may remember the terrorist >attack) - and of course similar things had hapend in the Bosinan >war. But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle >to be a 'regular' safe place. >Gruss >Hans > From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 1 15:21:59 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <5063b12a.36645df7@aol.com> Fedron is still available through Copier service centers. It works but don't get it on the plastic parts. Use sparingly. I have salvaged several laser printers with this stuff. As a fix it will work for several months but doesn't change the fact the rollers are hardening with age. Use good ventilation. Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 1 15:27:52 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion 88100 chip set Message-ID: I have about 30 chip sets for the 88100 processor and they include 2 88200s. The 88200s seem identical to me. They are matched by speed, 16, 20 & 25 MHz. Anyone need a spare set? These are pulls from never used OPUS cards that went byby. Paxton From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 1 15:47:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: networking newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry for this OT comment but its important that people read Eric Raymond's Halloween documents at http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html if Julian's story below scares or bothers you. On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > >> Now let me get this straight. You say Linux worked -- that implies > >> that it was in place at one point, then NT was put in there and that > >> NT didn't work. > > Ah, but there's the problem. > > NT - about a day to get set up and working (or not at all in this > case!). Needs lots of hardware. Costs lots. > > Linux - about an hour to set up, runs on old Pentium 60's (yes, I know > it runs fast even on 486 machines, but in this case a P60 was all that > was around and free). Doesn't cost anything. > > Management - "oh, that's quite impressive. But we don't know anything > about Unix, but do know NT, so we have to stick with that". > > Not that I'm rather stressed out at the way the computing industry > blindly follows the big players round (sarcasm mode is on here, folks!) > - but I run up against this brick wall time after time. People high up > in a company see something as a risk unless they have to invest lots of > time and money in puchasing it and supporting it - they just don't seem > to feel safe if the product in question is low-cost (or free!) and runs > itself without any trouble, even if such "features" are rammed down > their throats. It's a very scary industry. > > >> you then wrote a _Java_ program to do > >> what should be handled by something two or three layers down? > > yup, took about 30 minutes too. I got fed up with NT wanting to reboot > every ten minutes, the PC taking five minutes to boot, the > 32x-speed-all-the-bells-and-whistles CDROM drive taking a minute to spin > up to speed before I could access it to install software... I'm sure > most of you have been there! > > cheers > > Jules > > > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 12:46:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention In-Reply-To: <981130224057.2de00192@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Nov 30, 98 10:40:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 646 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/a51d54ad/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 13:38:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.122913.1767.165073@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 12:55:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 984 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/d150a364/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 13:34:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.122149.1767.165060@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 12:23:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 797 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/9c27fa76/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 13:47:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.132417.1767.165105@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 01:24:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/4901500e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 13:11:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 09:23:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1457 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/36d5f411/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 18:26:46 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: WTB: old Zenith laptop (or other laptop with 26-pin HD) Message-ID: <01be1d8a$71a3b8c0$d38ea6d1@the-general> Hi! I'm looking for an old Zenith laptop with the 26-pin type HD. The HD does NOT need to be working, nor does it need to have the HD - as long as it has a good controller. I don't need an external P/S, or a battery, either, since I have a bunch of old 12V P/S's laying around. I am willing to trade a WANG WLTC laptop for it, which has an internal P/S problem (popped a cap - probably dry electrolytic) It needs an external P/S (18V) and battery. The computer has a built-in thermal printer, and HD. The computer DOES operate, provided it has a battery and P/S (and the blown cap is replaced). I have the schematics on how to make a battery for it. I'm not necessarily looking for a Zenith, but any computer (laptop) with a 26-pin HD will do (same requirements - no battery, etc.). I'll be willing to trade for any computer BUT a Toshiba. I'm trying to rescue data off of two HD's that I have from Tandy 1400HD laptops, and I think I may have better luck finding a new computer than a new HD controller for the 1400. As always, ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 12:55:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: <802566CD.003A653A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Dec 1, 98 10:45:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/4f4236ac/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 1 16:11:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <98120116205100.00534@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: How about picking up a newspaper to find out instead of asking about it here? On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. > And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened > recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many > injured/killed? > >I never heared of such a thing over here. Shooting a bus driver ? > >The last time I remember was I think 1972 at the Munich Olypics, > >at the masacre on the airport (you may remember the terrorist > >attack) - and of course similar things had hapend in the Bosinan > >war. But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle > >to be a 'regular' safe place. > > >Gruss > >Hans > > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 1 16:18:14 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <98120116205100.00534@localhost.localdomain> from "Max Eskin" at Dec 1, 98 04:18:19 pm Message-ID: <199812012218.OAA15273@saul10.u.washington.edu> > Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. > And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened > recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many > injured/killed? Three people have already died. The driver died from his gunshot wound, the person who shot the driver shot himself and died, and one passenger died from the trauma of being thrown out of the bus. About thirty people are injued. Some people are in serious condition and (I would guess) may die; some people are in satisfactory condition (one person in satisfactory condition won't be able to walk for months because of broken bones); some people suffered "only" things like a broken arm. If the bus had hit the water there would have been many more deaths. This is getting pretty far off-topic, I think. -- Derek From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 19:15:18 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: (OT) SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Message-ID: <01be1d91$39616460$578ea6d1@the-general> What does that have to do with fixing/using classic computers? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 >> Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. >> And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened >> recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many >> injured/killed? >> >I never heared of such a thing over here. Shooting a bus driver ? >> >The last time I remember was I think 1972 at the Munich Olypics, >> >at the masacre on the airport (you may remember the terrorist >> >attack) - and of course similar things had hapend in the Bosinan >> >war. But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle >> >to be a 'regular' safe place. >> >> >Gruss >> >Hans >> > >> > > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Dec 1 16:19:22 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion 88100 chip set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I have about 30 chip sets for the 88100 processor and they include 2 88200s. > The 88200s seem identical to me. They are matched by speed, 16, 20 & 25 MHz. > Anyone need a spare set? These are pulls from never used OPUS cards that went > byby. Oh man, I used to always drool over OPUS cards. The 88K version was called the 400PM (Personal Mainframe). They plugged into a PC and came with a version of Unix. I think they did several other high-end (at the time) CPU cards. -- Doug From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Dec 1 16:41:08 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II Message-ID: <1998Dec01.174015.1767.165225@smtp.itgonline.com> The Feed Roller Assembly indeed is the entire shaft with clutch and feed roller. My experience on SX engines has been clutch failure more often than solenoid failure on the paper control pca although the feed roller replacement was the most common failure for me. I was repairing these for the US ARmy Personnel Command in Alexandria, Virginia on a daily basis and learned to swap out the entire feed roller assembly at once to ensure the printer was back online okay and avoid a recall. I'd typically get about six SX calls a day (along with various pc problems and other printer calls) so I had to keep moving. I would rebuild these feed roller assemblies in my office when time and replacement parts allowed. Regarding the CX engine, the clutch in the cassette feed roller assembly (which requires splitting the clamshell> a piece of cake after you've done it a few times) was the biggest feed failure item I encountered. Those weird feed wedges (three I seem to recall) rarely failed. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 12/1/98 5:04 PM > > I have repaired literally hundreds of HP II's and HP III's over the Ditto... > past 10 years. The paper feed problem you mention is a piece of cake > to repair (replace) and the parts are readily available at a very low > price. Following are the parts you need: > > HP P/N RG1-0931-060CN FEED ROLLER ASSEMBLY Isn't that the complete spindle with the clutch, etc. It's a _lot_ cheaper to buy just the worn roller (I have _never_ had a clutch fail), and almost as quick to change it. There is another common cause for paper jams in that area. Namely that one of the clutch solenoids isn't firing - either the pickup clutch solenoid or the registration solenoid. There are 2 ways to tell : How far does the paper move ? About 1" -> registration solenoid A little -> worn pickup roller Not at all -> pickup solenoid or totally worn roller. If there is a solenoid problem, there are 3 solutions : Replace the 'electronic component assembly' (PSU + clutch board) -- $$$$$$$$ Replace the switch/solenoid PCB (clutch board) -- $$$ Fix the darn thing. There are _4_ components for each clutch - the solenoid, the back-emf protection diode, the driver transistor, and its base resistor. The transistor is the most likely failure, btw. It actually takes less time to test the components than to look up the price/part number for the PCB :-) It could also be a problem on the DC controller board, but I have never had that. -tony ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Dec01.170458.1767.81345; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 17:04:59 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id OAA19811; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:02:35 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id OAA22394 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:01:42 -0800 Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA15 680 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:01:10 -0800 Received: from [158.152.97.199] (helo=p850ug1) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.053 #1) id 0zkxpA-0002sa-00 for classiccmp@u.washington.edu; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:59:12 +0000 Received: by p850ug1 id (Debian /\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.33); Tue, 1 Dec 98 19:11 GMT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:11:07 +0000 (GMT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.092201.1767.164934@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 09:23:27 am Content-Type: text X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Dec 1 16:55:45 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: WTB: old Zenith laptop (or other laptop with 26-pin HD) Message-ID: <199812012255.OAA13139@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >I'm looking for an old Zenith laptop with the 26-pin type HD. The HD does >NOT need to be working, nor does it need to have the HD - as long as it has >a good controller. I don't need an external P/S, or a battery, either, >since I have a bunch of old 12V P/S's laying around. Hi Jason, I have a Zenith Data Systems ZWL-184-97 that's missing HD & power supply/video card. If you want the motherboard (unknown condition), I'll send it to you fro $12 shipped. Sincerely, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 1 16:58:07 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention Message-ID: <981201175807.2de00262@trailing-edge.com> >> As long as we're on the topic, anyone have a Ethernet card for the >> Pro that they'd like to sell? I'm willing to pay CA$H! (The goal >> is to put Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP for RT-11 on a Pro and run a web server.) >You mean they're rare? No, they're not especially rare. It's just that I have an application for one! > I picked up a PRO350 a few years back with VR241 >monitor, DEC desk (with the motorised raise/lower column for the monitor) >_and_ an ethernet card. No, I am not selling it. And taunting me with stories about how you have one but don't use it and I can't have it doesn't particularly help me :-(. Tim. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 1 17:19:29 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 1, 98 06:55:38 pm Message-ID: <199812012319.PAA09956@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1530 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/19de77ef/attachment.ksh From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Tue Dec 1 17:21:43 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Off topic posts (was Re: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP) In-Reply-To: <199812012218.OAA15273@saul10.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > This is getting pretty far off-topic, I think. ---- BEGIN RANT ---- Perhaps if those responding to posts with something that is off-topic or that changes the subject would change the subject header to: A) Reflect the actual content of the message, with a reference to the old message and/or B) Indicate that the reply is off topic, with the letters OT as a prefix ...we could avoid the usual flame war and reposts of the FAQ. That way, people who don't want to read anything but messages concerning the collecting/restoration of classic computers can either hit the delete button or automatically filter out any messages who's subject contains "OT" and those who like a casual, conversational atmosphere can enjoy the social dialog. I often enjoy the tangent threads here, but I can't stand trying to follow a discussion when 10 messages with the same, exact subject are about 10 completely different topics. This point has been brought up before, and, IMHO, it's really just a common courtesty that could save us all a lot of unnecessary grief. ---- END RANT ---- :wq From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 1 17:26:22 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: <199812012218.OAA15273@saul10.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > This is getting pretty far off-topic, I think. You know a list is in trouble when the list "moderator" is off-topic :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 1 19:40:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981201194057.3087effa@intellistar.net> The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. Joe From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 1 17:50:21 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Dec 1, 98 03:26:22 pm Message-ID: <199812012350.PAA02319@saul9.u.washington.edu> > You know a list is in trouble when the list "moderator" is off-topic :) Well, somebody asked... what else can I do? Anyway, I'm not going to answer any more questions about disasters. It was probably a bad idea to bring the subject up in the first place. -- Derek From cmcmanis at freegate.com Tue Dec 1 17:58:43 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: <199812012319.PAA09956@oa.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19981201155637.00b1ddc0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 03:19 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Cameron wrote: >The question is, does source => Dolby encoding => Dolby decoding == source? >Dolby encoding, AFAIK, increases the volume of sounds >10KHz, and decoding >does the reverse. Dolby compresses the sound track in the high end causing high frequencies to get a lot higher. Generally static is thus moved out of the reproducible range of the tape and when the signal is decompressed the "hiss" is gone. And yes, it alters the frequency spectrum of the signal source in an effort to remove "noise". --Chuck From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Dec 1 09:14:36 1998 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Replacing 6550s Message-ID: <802566CD.0059027E.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> > Why do POKE and PEEK fail there? Was that done on purpose or is it just >> > the result of something lame like using a signed value to represent >> > addresses? >> No, it's software. It was a feature that was supposed to prevent >> inquisitive geeks disassembling the BASIC ROM between $C000 and (I think) >> $E7FF. The OS ROMs, above $F000, were peekable, though, as was the I/O > > It was totally useless for that. The sort of person who could disassemble > and make sense of the BASIC ROM was the sort of person who could also > write enough machine code to copy the ROM into (peekable) RAM a few K at > a time... I just added a little machine code routine to my disassembler that peeked the byte it was looking at for it. I was really annoyed to find that I needed one for the assembler as well to do the poking... BTW BASIC programs up in the ROM expansion space didn't work. The machine relied on the MSB of the address not being set for one or two things, I can't remember what. Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Dec 1 09:20:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Audio Cassette formats; Copy protection? Message-ID: <802566CD.005945D1.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >::There are plenty of ways of preventing a BASIC program from being listed. >::Dunno how you prevent it being saved (and say 'BAD PROGRAM'), but I could >::probably figure it out given time... Anyone else? > > On the 64, you could type > > 10 remL > > (rem, then a shifted-L) > > and LIST will stop up with a ?SYNTAX ERROR when it hits that line. Rather > easy to defeat but annoying as heck. :-) Same on Basic 2 PETS. On BASIC 1 you used shift-K. Possibility that I thought of, but didn't try. Make the initial line a v. high line number (>63999). Have the program start rem L, then disable the stop key, then poke that line number to something smaller. Bit harder to defeat but won't deter the determined cracker. Mean trick I did use. In the middle of a subroutine I entered the line REM@TURN I then found the @ sign and poked the location with 20 (ctrl-T, the PET backspace) This now lists as RETURN but does nothing... Philip. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 1 19:59:15 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Help! Need service info for HP 9835 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981201195915.39b7794e@intellistar.net> I finally tore into my "new" HP 9835. I found something on the power supply card as completely burned away. All the output voltages are present but low. It would save a lot time if some would sell or loan me a service manual for this old beast. Thanks, Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 1 20:33:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP3000 help needed In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19981130092944.44b7e274@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981201203355.4847381a@intellistar.net> At 06:38 PM 11/30/98 +0000, you wrote: >[HP9123] > >> OK OK. It's FUCTIONLY the same as a 9122. As long as it works I don't >> care what the insides look like. > >You'll care when you have to fix the darn thing and you discover that the >stuff you figured out for the HP9122 is no help at all :-). No, I won't. The 9121, 9122, 9123 drives are too cheap to fool with. I can buy them all day long for $10 each. Besides I've never found one with bad electronics. It's allways the drive mechanism that fails in them. Joe From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Dec 1 21:33:44 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <01be1da4$901b41a0$208ea6d1@the-general> Sort of off the topic of the drives for sale, but on the topic of an external IBM disk drive. I have the cable from a 4869 drive connected to a full-height drive (IBM), which is connected to a 4869 P/S on my IBM PC. However, it doesn't look so good. I was wondering if anyone had an old TRS-80 disk box (mod. 1 style) that they'd be willing to part with for a few bucks. The drive itself doesn't need to work. All I really need is the box and the P/S for it, so I have something to house my external drive "B" in. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 3:39 PM Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive >The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent >condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model >but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. > > Joe > > From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Dec 1 18:40:56 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Dolby Enc/Dec: Tangent to List Topic In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981201155637.00b1ddc0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 03:19 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Cameron wrote: > >The question is, does source => Dolby encoding => Dolby decoding == source? > >Dolby encoding, AFAIK, increases the volume of sounds >10KHz, and decoding > >does the reverse. > > Dolby compresses the sound track in the high end causing high frequencies > to get a lot higher. Generally static is thus moved out of the reproducible > range of the tape and when the signal is decompressed the "hiss" is gone. > And yes, it alters the frequency spectrum of the signal source in an effort > to remove "noise". > > --Chuck > Okay... This (I think) is at least *close* to the topic of this List, since many of our machines are designed with cassette tape I/O as secondary storage... HOWEVER: The above posts reflect some general mis-conceptions re: just what those "D"s do to signals on/in a medium of storage or transmission. Humble Disclaimer: I am a complete novice concerning many aspects of the hobby of the care and feeding of elderly computers... but professional and cinema audio is how I have made my living for most of my life, and for the last almost ten years it has been as the Chief Engineer of M.G.M. Studios.. I *think* I can help y'all with how Dolby A, B, C, SR, and HQX work... since I have designed and built and use every day systems with these encoding and decoding schemes, as well as dbx, Telcom C-64, Ultra*Stereo, NatSemi DNR..... etc. First, with most small cassettes, we are talking Dolby 'B' or 'C'; these DO NOT 'alter' the frquency (ie the pitch) of the signals... they do not shift the spectrum in any way.. [Cameron is closer in his post], but each uses band-limited compression and decompression to reduce the overal signal in given frequency bands, store or transport the signal across a noisy medium, then decompress at the destination. Any noise *existing* in the original will be reproduced, but noise from the media will be reduced. These systems can also add distortion of various kinds when Things go wrong... an understanding of the nature of the processes can help in restoration of data media made by older systems and (cheap) cassette decks. I have detailed info (many hundreds of pages) on each of the common Noise Reduction schemes, and I would be glad to correspond PRIVATELY with anyone interested in the real poop on how NR is implemented in audio systems. I am also working on a document for the Archives (maybe a FAQ supplement) on exactly how the common NR schemes work as they specifically relate to cassette-based computer data storage. At least I hope this will be of use to some of us who have old tapes to restore and preserve..... and the physics, chemistry, and electronics of magnetic recording in general is a fascinating and quite beautiful topic in and of itself... IMHO. Cheers John PS: Help Prevent Topic-Drift! E-mail me privately unless it's list oriented... thanx! From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Dec 1 10:05:18 1998 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <802566CD.005BB33D.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Also, the colour video output is on 3 BNC connectors. Can I use 3 segments > of ethernet coax to carry the video signal or is the impedance wrong? Has someone else answered this? I can't remember. Anyway: Impedance of Etehernet coax is 50 ohms; impedance of video coax should be 75 ohms. You will get slight ghosting from reflections etc. if your leads are longer than a few feet. More importantly, 75 ohm BNC connectors are not quite the same mechanically as 50 ohm ones. Plug in the wrong combination and you get slight mechanical damage or a poor contact (can't remember which is which. I think it's 50 ohm plug in 75 ohm socket => mechanical damage, 75 ohm plug in 50 ohm socket => poor contact) It might work in a pinch but it's not recommended. Philip. From rcini at msn.com Tue Dec 1 18:29:25 1998 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Posted yesterday Message-ID: <008901be1d8e$dc048d80$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I began posting the Altair 8800b docs last night. I've posted part 1, part 2a, all of chapter 5, and the Appendicies. Enjoy, [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 19:11:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <802566CD.005BB33D.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Dec 1, 98 05:05:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/9666a6f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 19:13:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP3000 help needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981201203355.4847381a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 1, 98 08:33:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1015 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/1b55d2eb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 1 19:23:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II In-Reply-To: <1998Dec01.174015.1767.165225@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Dec 1, 98 05:41:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2503 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/df21dbdf/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 1 19:43:00 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Recent Finds & Thoughts" (Dec 1, 18:55) References: Message-ID: <9812020143.ZM6619@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1, 18:55, Tony Duell wrote: > Well, if audio processing that leaves the signal going to the output > socket unchanged (like recording with Dolby, playback with Dolby) still > allows the copy to load, then I think audio recording onto a CD would > work. In fact I can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't work, based > on my understanding of the CD system. There was an article in one of the Acorn newgroups the other day, from someone who had done exactly that for hundreds of his old computer tapes, and was extolling the virtues of being able to find things, having reliable reproduction, etc. He made no mention of any special signal processing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 1 20:04:54 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser "Re: Recent Finds & Thoughts" (Dec 1, 15:19) References: <199812012319.PAA09956@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <9812020204.ZM6629@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1, 15:19, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > The question is, does source => Dolby encoding => Dolby decoding == source? > Dolby encoding, AFAIK, increases the volume of sounds >10KHz, and decoding > does the reverse. There are three Dolby systems, all based on audio companders. Dolby A (the "professional" one, used by some recording studios for master tapes) works by splitting the audio into a number of frequency bands (like a graphic equaliser does). On recording, each band is then fed through a compressor to reduce the dynamic range, thus keeping the volume level fairly high. On playback, it's fed through an expander to recreate the dynamic range of the original signal. Dolby B is a simpler version, with a single filter for HF; it uses a similar compander for the upper frequencies only. Dolby C is a n "improved" Dolby B, which (IIRC) uses a different corner frequency and different compander. None of them use any form of frequency shifting. The reason Dolby B and C work so well (for tape, which is what they were designed for) is that tape hiss is largely made up of HF noise. You don't hear the hiss if the signal is at a sufficiently greater level than the hiss (which is more-or-less constant) -- in other words, if the signal-to-noise ratio is high enough. So Dolby B/C boost the level of quiet sections of the high frequency signal before recording, but leave the louder passages as-is, to avoid saturation. On playback, the amplitude of the quieter passages is attenuated again, and the hiss is attenuated with it. > However, that doesn't mean that there won't be subtle > differences between one particular encoder and a particular decoder's > respective frequency responses, so you can't be sure they'll be precisely > the same. Your ear won't care, but I bet the computer might. Unlikely to make much difference, unless the filter corner frequencies and rolloffs were quite different, which Dolby Labs were quite picky about before granting licences. > I came up with, during my days when I was too cheap/poor to spring for prefab > audio equipment, a superamplification system that was Dolby compatible. I'm > not saying that *that* was how Dolby worked (in fact, I'm sure it isn't), but > on the treble section of the sound, which is where Dolby NR operates, it was > pretty #$%&ing destructive. I wouldn't risk it. Then it wasn't Dolby-compatible :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 1 20:40:12 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: <9812020204.ZM6629@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 2, 98 02:04:54 am Message-ID: <199812020240.SAA13526@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 507 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981201/c544feb1/attachment.ksh From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Dec 1 20:32:08 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: PET Composite Video References: <199812010802.AAA27700@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3664A6A7.C4A2103F@goldrush.com> > From: Philip.Belben@pgen.com > Subject: Re: PET Video (was: Replacing 6550s) & 128 > > Foxnhare (who are you anyway? I've seen the address before. You're not > Larry Anderson by any chance are you? :-) ) wrote: Yep, the login was my wife's idea... Fox: an old definition for my middle name, Todd, and Hare: for her last name. > >> From: Doug Spence > >> Subject: Re: Replacing 6550s > > > >> (I especially find it cool that they list various part numbers for the > >> connector. :) ) > > > > Digikey is the best source for inexpensive PET compatible connectors. > > (1-800-DIGI-KEY) along with a ton of other cool parts. > Many thanks for that. I know where to turn next time I'm looking... I think the last batch of 12/24 PCB connectors from them cost me about $18 (for 10). Very reasonable! [snip!] > I thought the video signals were there on later machines too, but I can > well believe it might not work on the 12 inch screen models. I would think you could get a multi-sync to do it, but the way the screen behaves I think the fat-forty and 80000 series were able to change sync rates. (Of course what do I know I'm just mainly a software guy). > My experience is that Nick Hampshire's circuit doesn't work at all. Using > the same two chips, 4011 and 4066, the correct procedure (sorry. The > procedure that worked when I tried it) is to combine the two syncs with the > 4011, invert (I think - not sure about this one) with another 4011 gate, > and use that to gate the video using the 4066. Works a treat. They tried > it at school, too (don't know what circuit tho'), and got a grey background > for the white text. I imagine a series capacitor might help, but I've not > tried it. Could ya like draw it out or something... I would really like to have a composite output on the PET (ohh could do WWW quick-time animated movies of such classics as Drameda! or Dance! - PET character animated shorts) 100k of video for a 5K program animation :) Actually would be better to screen capture it off of an emulator and then you can compress it way down to say 60 k or less.. > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: PET Video (was: Replacing 6550s) & 128 > > [Composite video adapter] > > > My experience is that Nick Hampshire's circuit doesn't work at all. Using > > the same two chips, 4011 and 4066, the correct procedure (sorry. The > > I've never tried that one. I've used modifications of the TRS-80 Model 1 > circuit and the BBC micro circuit with no problems at all. The latter is > simpler, so I'll describe that. But the output has a little DC offset > that some (a _very_ few) monitors object to. > > Start by Xoring HSync and VSync to get a CSync signal. I normally use a > 74LS86 for this. But the XOR-from-4-NANDs using a 74LS00 once got me out > of a hole when I couldn't find any '86s. Invert CSync to give Csync/ > using either another section of the '86 or a suitable TTL inverter. > Alternatively make an XNOR gate from 4 NORs. > > You now combine video and CSync/ using this circuit Or the complete circuit of this? I would really like to get a composite circuit for the PET FAQ on-line One could concevably make a portable PET (yeah, the PET is kinda portable, but not as much as an SX 64 or 128D) if such a circuit was available. ;> From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Dec 1 20:50:53 1998 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:51 2005 Subject: FW: MicroVAX 3100 -- complete system! -- available In-Reply-To: <36643B50.2A88236D@cncdsl.com> References: <36643B50.2A88236D@cncdsl.com> Message-ID: <3665aa94.1417952547@smtp.jps.net> Found on Usenet. This sounds like a great opportunity for someone who wants a MicroVAXen to get started. I already E-mailed to the guy that I guesstimated the system value at between $50 and $75. Please contact him directly if you're interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- >>From: Scott Hale >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: Microvax 3100 available >>Date: 01 Dec 1998 10:54:09 PST >>Organization: Sherman Clay & Co >>Lines: 22 >>Message-ID: <36643B50.2A88236D@cncdsl.com> >>Reply-To: Shale@sclay.com >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.31.3.16 >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) >>X-Accept-Language: en >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.32.206.55!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master >>Xref: blushng.jps.net comp.sys.dec:4904 comp.sys.dec.micro:657 >> >>Through a company acq we have acquired the below system: >> >>Microvax 3100/20-20RZ=tk5 >>OS: vms 5.5 >>32mb memory >>4 internal HD (500mb, 400mb, 100mb, 100mb) >>External TK50 tape unit >>VMS licenses included >> >>We gone through a few VAX resellers with no luck. Is there any value to >>the above system or is it complete junk? >> >>Anybody interested in buying, pls contact me. >> >>thanks! >> >>Scott Hale >>PC/LAN Manager >>Sherman Clay & Co >>Shale@sclay.com >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 1 23:18:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: HP3000 help needed In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19981201203355.4847381a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981201231832.2e3feb0a@intellistar.net> At 01:13 AM 12/2/98 +0000, you wrote: > >They're cheap over here as well - when you can find them. Actually, I've >never seen a real HP9122. I've got a couple of 9121s, one I converted to >a 9122 by fitting DS drives and fiddling with the links (I think) and a >9123. That's all I've seen. I just passed up 4+ pallet loads of them at a scrap metal dealer's place. 9121, 9122 and 9123, both D and S models. I hated to see them scrapped but I don't have room to save everything. > >> can buy them all day long for $10 each. Besides I've never found one with >> bad electronics. It's allways the drive mechanism that fails in them. > >And the drives are Sony, and I have the service manual.... I've never needed the service manual. The problem that I find is that the grease on the mechanism dries out and the mechanism doesn't lift up all the way. Then the user tries to force a disk in or out and it hits the top head and tears it off. If you catch it before the head is damaged you can clean the old grease off and relube it. It seems like only the double sided drives have this problem. > >I had a trivial electronic fault (bad IC socket IIRC) on one of the >9121s. Apart from that they've been very reliable... Yeap, I've never seen one fail other than the dried grease problem. That's why I don't worry about fixing them. Besides if they're like a lot of HP products, they're full of custom ICs that you can't get anyway. Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 1 20:02:15 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <5c702f67.36649fa7@aol.com> if the drive bezel has a * on it, it's a 360k. if no * is on the faceplate it will be a 1.2 model. it's easy to change the drive anyway, i installed a 1.2 drive in the 4869 enclosure. In a message dated 98-12-01 18:40:40 EST, you write: << The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. >> From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 1 22:04:25 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: PET Composite Video In-Reply-To: <3664A6A7.C4A2103F@goldrush.com> References: <199812010802.AAA27700@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981201220425.00d06870@pc> At 06:32 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Larry Anderson wrote: > I would really like to have a >composite output on the PET (ohh could do WWW quick-time animated movies of >such classics as Drameda! or Dance! - PET character animated shorts) 100k of >video for a 5K program animation :) It's been done. has a number of movie clips converted to ASCII, and then played via a Java applet. If you aren't on a well-equipped browser on a fast link, forget it. I do recognize the irony of this situation. These movies were created with the SGI 'ttyvideo' package, , which lets you convert a bitmap animation or real-time video capture (the SGI Indy includes a camera) to an animated or static ASCII version. - John From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 1 22:27:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie Message-ID: <199812020427.AA19776@world.std.com> < > NT - about a day to get set up and working (or not at all in this < > case!). Needs lots of hardware. Costs lots. My $0.02. I just took a job where win95 and win/NT are it. I'm sure they could be migrated to linux BUT, I'm paid (well!!) to maintain and move their systems forward both hardware and software wise. Personally MS stuff stinks, I'm not paid for that opinion. I'm paid to provide my peice in helping to keep the business in the black. The management is not married to DOS/WIN/NT as a "they are great" but rather it does the job for the scale of business they are and within costs. The user base however could never work with linux(unix). Oh, Bif4win is garbage!!!! Allison From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Dec 2 01:38:47 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <01be1dc6$cbfae460$668ea6d1@the-general> But, if you put a 1.2MB drive in it the case, it won't work with a PC or XT. I tried it, and it just gives the same old "general failure" errors. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:57 PM Subject: Re: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive >if the drive bezel has a * on it, it's a 360k. if no * is on the >faceplate it will be a 1.2 model. it's easy to change the drive anyway, i >installed a 1.2 drive in the 4869 enclosure. > > >In a message dated 98-12-01 18:40:40 EST, you write: > ><< The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent > condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model > but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. > >> > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Dec 2 00:02:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: <199812020427.AA19776@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > The management is not married to DOS/WIN/NT as a "they are great" but > rather it does the job for the scale of business they are and within > costs. The user base however could never work with linux(unix). How wrong you are, Allison. How wrong you are. My friend is running Linux on his home PC, but if you didn't know any better (and if you didn't look close enough) you'd swear he was running Windows 95. The fact is that his desktop might as well BE Win95, because it is stolen from the look & feel of Win95. Its called the Star Office Suite. Find yourself a copy and install it on your Linux box. You'll never boot Win95 again. You'll never need to. Windows is dead. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 2 00:38:07 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > The management is not married to DOS/WIN/NT as a "they are great" but > > rather it does the job for the scale of business they are and within > > costs. The user base however could never work with linux(unix). > > How wrong you are, Allison. How wrong you are. > > My friend is running Linux on his home PC, but if you didn't know any > better (and if you didn't look close enough) you'd swear he was running > Windows 95. The fact is that his desktop might as well BE Win95, because > it is stolen from the look & feel of Win95. Its called the Star Office > Suite. Find yourself a copy and install it on your Linux box. You'll > never boot Win95 again. You'll never need to. I have used both Star Office and Applix (my choice). It is *not* Win95, no matter how much it looks like it. Users who rely on Microsoft Word and Excel daily are usually deeply entangled in the proprietary macros and keyboard shortcuts of them. Much of the software we use is loosely written in VB, using third-party imaging and encryption toolkits. Our existing data system is written in Omnis7, not portable. Our staff relys on Physician yellow-pages CD's that only run on windows. Our field personell use laptops and Fujitsu 600c scanners to copy medical records, whose drivers are only released for Windows. Linux will *not* replace Windows on the desktop in most businesses. What Linux/FreeBSD/OSS-type systems *will* replace is the PC-based NT servers. Anyone who has to administrate a large network/support users for a living would not try to switch everyone to Linux and accept the responsibility for teaching them how to use it, no matter how P.C. it becomes. My $0.02... Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From yowza at yowza.com Wed Dec 2 01:07:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > Linux will *not* replace Windows on the desktop in most businesses. What > Linux/FreeBSD/OSS-type systems *will* replace is the PC-based NT servers. True, and that's mostly because X Window development sucks even more than Microsoft Windows development, which really isn't a Linux fault per se. There really isn't a good "open source" GUI alternative to Windows yet, so the best approach for now is to emulate the Win32 API on top of Linux to run legacy Win32 apps, and get to work on a nice clean simple GUI and GUI API. For Win32 emulation, Willows looks promising: http://www.willows.com/ But, you're right, I find it much easier to sneak Linux into the server side of a corporation than into the client/desktop side. Maybe if Java performance and look+feel improve another order of magnitude, that won't be as much of an issue. ObCC: Has anybody heard of a personal computer called Simon (circa 1950)? It was sold as kit plans, and cost about $300 to put together. I *really* want to find a copy of those plans. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Dec 2 01:17:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: SO OFF-TOPIC AS TO BE SICKENING! Re: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > keyboard shortcuts of them. Much of the software we use is loosely written > in VB, using third-party imaging and encryption toolkits. Our existing > data system is written in Omnis7, not portable. Our staff relys on > Physician yellow-pages CD's that only run on windows. Our field personell > use laptops and Fujitsu 600c scanners to copy medical records, whose > drivers are only released for Windows. So? Everything you name here can be done under Linux with a few changes in hardware and software. Sure it would be unfeasable for your office to do it, but a new office just starting out could standardize on tools readily available under Linux. > Linux will *not* replace Windows on the desktop in most businesses. What > Linux/FreeBSD/OSS-type systems *will* replace is the PC-based NT servers. Heheheh. Windows is dead. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From red at bears.org Wed Dec 2 01:33:04 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <012a01be1cf0$079533e0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Geoff Roberts wrote: > >The green connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with > >you. > > Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" I don't supose you happen to know offhand what the resolution and vertical sync are.. I was unable to get my NEC Multisync 5fge to sync up. Since the noise was green and not white, there could be something wrong with the video section. I don't know. The 5fge is the only multisync monitor I have that supports composite sync on green and has BNC inputs. I did verify that it was not 1024x768 @ 60Hz by trying it on one of my Apollo monitors. I'm going to see if anything is happening on either of the serial ports in the meanwhile. > Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun mice are $$ but at > least you can get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of > the appropriate rodentia? If it's truly a quadrature mouse, I'm sure a Logitech Bus mouse or similar could be kludged up to work. ok r. From yowza at yowza.com Wed Dec 2 03:10:41 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Any collectors in Minneapolis? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I constantly drool over stuff that's in the Charles Babbage Institute's archives, but I don't get to Minneapolis very often (OK, I *never* get to Minneapolis). Are there any Minneapolitans (?) out there willing to copy a few goodies from their archives? I'd pay for copying, shipping, gas, and probably a coupla bucks more. There's enough interesting stuff there that I'm sure a small business could be established by selling reprints to collectors and historians (besides, what else are you going to do when it's snowing out?). -- Doug From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Dec 2 03:33:18 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie Message-ID: >> NT - about a day to get set up and working (or not at all in this >> case!). Needs lots of hardware. Costs lots. > >And I'm not paying for any of it, so who gives a rat's ass if some >corporate blow-hard has his head so far in his rectum that he >wants to run NT. That's the whole problem though. It's not a personal dislike of NT that annoys me, it's the fact that all this comes down on the end user - the users of the systems/software that we produce, not necessarily our direct customers - and forces them to use a shoddy system that's not up to spec and costs a lot more that it has to. NT's good for some things, especially on the client, (although even then I'm from the camp that says that if a client-side app can't be done in Java running within a browser then it isn't worth doing, so 200MB of NT overhead kinda kills my argument!) but it's the fact that *most* people have a "stick with what you know" policy (which is usually Win95 or NT, but could be a UNIX system) that really gets to me, especially when presented with hard figures to prove them wrong. I get frustrated delivering solutions to end users when I know that there is a better, cheaper and faster way (and yes, that is taking into account things like support/maintenance costs), but don't have enough clout within a company to say what systems to use and can only make recommendations which I know will be ignored. (phew.... deep breath! :*) it can be a very, very crazy world... cheers Jules > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Dec 2 07:22:01 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Still OT Re: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP In-Reply-To: References: <98120116205100.00534@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <199812021223.MAA19232@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> > > >But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle > > >to be a 'regular' safe place. > > Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. > > And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened > > recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many > > injured/killed? > How about picking up a newspaper to find out instead of asking about it > here? Maybe because it's just a pure local news ? Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From fauradon at pclink.com Wed Dec 2 06:30:50 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Any collectors in Minneapolis? Message-ID: <000a01be1def$993aa820$77010bce@francois> Yes there are collectors in Minniapple. You know, I've never had the chance to go to the Chuck Babe institute. But I can tell you one thing when it Snows here We stay home. (besides we're having temperature in the mid 50's these days) I have a pretty busy schedule but I could arrange a trip. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/ >I constantly drool over stuff that's in the Charles Babbage Institute's >archives, but I don't get to Minneapolis very often (OK, I *never* get to >Minneapolis). > >Are there any Minneapolitans (?) out there willing to copy a few goodies >from their archives? I'd pay for copying, shipping, gas, and probably a >coupla bucks more. There's enough interesting stuff there that I'm sure a >small business could be established by selling reprints to collectors and >historians (besides, what else are you going to do when it's snowing >out?). > >-- Doug > From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Wed Dec 2 08:29:42 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie Message-ID: >> The management is not married to DOS/WIN/NT as a >> "they are great" but rather it does the job for >> the scale of business they are and within >My friend is running Linux on his home PC, but if >you didn't know any better (and if you didn't look >close enough) you'd swear he was running Windows 95. >The fact is that his desktop might as well BE Win95, What's nice is being paid to support a win shop but the mgmt lets you use a pc *nix for sysadmin, use samba, put a telnetd on NT, etc. Your friend must be using fvwm95 - I just got StarOffice last night, all 70Mb of it. For topical material - I'd love to find a Xenix or SCO unix box o' 5 1/4" disks and manuals to run on a 386 - used to see 'em for sale cheap at hamfests. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From amirault at epix.net Wed Dec 2 10:28:18 1998 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: HP Laserjet Series II References: <98113019113300.00619@localhost.localdomain> <366421E9.9E3184DC@epix.net> <199812011918.LAA28576@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <36656AA2.C5F21AB7@epix.net> Frank, Thanks for teaching me about this. I am glad people respond to these letters of mine. I am always open to being told a better way of doing something. John Amirault Frank McConnell wrote: > John Amirault wrote: > > How old are the machines? When is the last time they were CLEANED? I am no > > genius but the idea of CLEANING the rollers is, to me, a good one. Hope this > > suggustion helps you. > > Cleaning helps -- if the rollers have picked up dirt it will make it > harder for them to pick up paper. But the fundamental problem is > that rubber ages and gets hard. > > Once upon a time (mid-1980s) some of the HP CEs used to carry an > aromatic fluid they called "Fedron" which was good for restoring the > gumminess of hard rubber rollers. I saw them use it on 2601 (Diablo > 630) platen rollers and the little roller in the 2619 chain printer (a > Dataproducts something) that drives one of the paper-jam detectors > (roller not turning => paper not moving => paper jam, and when this > one got hard enough that the paper just slid over it without turning > it you got one frustrated computer operator). > > Is this stuff still available, or did it get banned because it's bad > for the ozone layer? > > Not sure it would work for LJ II pickup rollers, they're a softer > rubber. Nor am I sure what the fluid did, for all I know it stripped > off a layer of the rubber. > > -Frank McConnell From gram at cnct.com Wed Dec 2 10:34:56 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Still OT Re: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP References: <98120116205100.00534@localhost.localdomain> <199812021223.MAA19232@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: <36656C30.4E9428BB@cnct.com> Hans Franke wrote: > > > > >But in an ordinary city ? And mestupidone belived Seattle > > > >to be a 'regular' safe place. > > > Actually, a few months ago, a bus driver was stabbed to death here in Boston. > > > And of course, buses are blown up often in Israel, though nothing has happened > > > recently. But what were the results of this incident, Derek? How many > > > injured/killed? > > How about picking up a newspaper to find out instead of asking about it > > here? > > Maybe because it's just a pure local news ? For various values of local. I suspect it didn't get much coverage over there in Europe, but it seems to have gotten coast-to-coast attention in North America. As usual, the folks who want to keep firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens are having thier little orgasms. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From Dean.Nelson at lmco.com Wed Dec 2 11:25:44 1998 From: Dean.Nelson at lmco.com (Dean A. Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201be1e18$cc861420$2893f6c6@eng1> My DG Aviion Monitor is a trinitron GDM-1601. If you look it up on the net at http://www.nashville.net/~griffin/monitor.html My monitor shows up at 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (60hz). My monitor has a 5 bnc connection, but when hooked up to the Aviion, it only uses RGB. I went to Radio shack and got 3 6' 75 ohm video cables. They work fine. However, when I hooked the GDM-1601 up to my PC, the horz was wrong. I'm not sure why... Maybe that'll help. Dean Nelson -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of R. Stricklin (kjaeros) Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:33 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: DG Aviion video On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Geoff Roberts wrote: > >The green connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with > >you. > > Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" I don't supose you happen to know offhand what the resolution and vertical sync are.. I was unable to get my NEC Multisync 5fge to sync up. Since the noise was green and not white, there could be something wrong with the video section. I don't know. The 5fge is the only multisync monitor I have that supports composite sync on green and has BNC inputs. I did verify that it was not 1024x768 @ 60Hz by trying it on one of my Apollo monitors. I'm going to see if anything is happening on either of the serial ports in the meanwhile. > Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun mice are $$ but at > least you can get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of > the appropriate rodentia? If it's truly a quadrature mouse, I'm sure a Logitech Bus mouse or similar could be kludged up to work. ok r. From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Dec 2 11:45:31 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Any collectors in Minneapolis? Message-ID: <199812021745.JAA07736@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 03:10 AM 12/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >I constantly drool over stuff that's in the Charles Babbage Institute's >archives, but I don't get to Minneapolis very often (OK, I *never* get to >Minneapolis). > I found by willing to be helpful with them, they were willing to copy and send some material for me. I sent them some material they wanted, and they sent me some issues of "The Computer Hobbyist" in return. Of course this isn't the same thing as going there and discovering the material first hand! -Dave From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Dec 2 13:33:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: RSTS & the BRA81FH Message-ID: <13408617110.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Remember when I dropped my 11/44 off a cart? The RA81 dropped from about 2', and had crap (As in the other two BA-11) land on it. On later reassebling the system in another room, it no logger booted. I assumed I'd finally killed the RA81 (After also dropping it on Jeff's toes, and spinning it up with the brakes on!) and let it sit. Well, this morning, I got bored, and went back to playing with the 11. Thought maybe I could talk it into doing something from the console. Found out I'd had the SDI cable in the UDA50 backwards. Oops. Spin RA81 up, say B DU0... RSTS loads. THe drive is still alive. Throwing a few seek errors, but still readable. The Bastard RA81 From Hell Lives Again. I'm going to attempt backing it up to tape tomorrow. Think this would jinx it? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 2 12:36:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: PET Composite Video In-Reply-To: <3664A6A7.C4A2103F@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson" at Dec 1, 98 06:32:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/4c7eec76/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 2 12:33:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: HP3000 help needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981201231832.2e3feb0a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 1, 98 11:18:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1121 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/ea37573c/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Dec 2 14:15:00 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive References: <5c702f67.36649fa7@aol.com> Message-ID: <36659FC3.64BB10FC@bigfoot.com> I used to assume that too-until I found a unit that someone had replaced the floppy drive in the unit with a Teac drive. While not commonplace, it's still a possibility. The 4869 cases work out nice for other machines as well if you want to do a minor amount of rewiring for accomodate the non-IBM machine. SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > if the drive bezel has a * on it, it's a 360k. if no * is on the > faceplate it will be a 1.2 model. it's easy to change the drive anyway, i > installed a 1.2 drive in the 4869 enclosure. > > In a message dated 98-12-01 18:40:40 EST, you write: > > << The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent > condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model > but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. > >> From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Dec 2 14:41:13 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FSOT: IBM 4869 external 5 1/4" floppy drive Message-ID: <199812022038.OAA17150@falcon.inetnebr.com> I've got a pile of these somewhere. If anyone can use them, I'll sell them for $10 each plus shipping. I also have some of the PS/2 internal 3.5"-to-external-5.25" drive adapters, too. >I used to assume that too-until I found a unit that someone had replaced the >floppy drive in the unit with a Teac drive. While not commonplace, it's still a >possibility. The 4869 cases work out nice for other machines as well if you want >to do a minor amount of rewiring for accomodate the non-IBM machine. > >SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > >> if the drive bezel has a * on it, it's a 360k. if no * is on the >> faceplate it will be a 1.2 model. it's easy to change the drive anyway, i >> installed a 1.2 drive in the 4869 enclosure. >> >> In a message dated 98-12-01 18:40:40 EST, you write: >> >> << The title says it all. External floppy drive made by IBM. Excellent >> condition. It has the standard DB-37 connector. I think it's a 1.2Mb model >> but I'm not sure. Guaranteed against DOA. >> >> > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From dcoward at pressstart.com Wed Dec 2 15:13:12 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input Message-ID: <19981202130154.6229b5ea.in@mail.pressstart.com> First I just want to say that I'm still looking for 'copies' of two RCA publications: MPM-232 Operator Manual for the RCA COSMAC DOS Development System (CDS III) CDP18S007 MPM-233 Hardware Reference Manual for the RCA COSMAC DOS Development System (CDS III) CDP18S007 If you have one or both or know where to order these manuals, please let me know. O.K. I said: >I think there is a source code listing in Paul Moews book on >Elf interpreters. I dug my copy out and yes there is source listings. Paul took RCA's CHIP-8 interpreter and modified it for the ELF. In this book ("Programs for the COSMAC ELF: Interpreters"), he starts with a subset interpreter that has 10 CHIP-8 instructions and is intended to run on a 256 byte Basic ELF. Then he lists the full Elf CHIP-8 interpreter with all 30 instructions. This is intended for a 4K Super Elf with 1861 video, but it can run on a 1 1/4K Elf. "It is also possible to use CHIP-8 in the 1 1/4K ELF's described in the articles in Popular Electronics, but to do so is very tedious unless the switches are replaced with a latched decoded keyboard." He also demonstrates with listings, how to extend the CHIP-8 instruction set. I can send you a copy of this book, it's only 31 pages. I also have one of his other books called "Programs for the COSMAC ELF: Music and Games". ----------------------------------------------------------- Fun Fact of the Day Did you know that a windowing graphical user interface was available for S-100 bus in 1979? See the product review in Popular Electronics Aug 79 page 74. ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From mark_k at iname.com Wed Dec 2 14:23:28 1998 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Dec 1998 Philip Belben wrote: >We didn't try recording with Dolby and playing back without. I'd be very >surprised if that worked (did you mean it that way round). I can't >remember if we recorded with and played back with - I imagine that would >work - but we definitely couldn't get it to work recording without and >playing back with, although this actually works quite well for music. All Dolby B seems to do, is increase the level of high frequencies when the recording is made. Then when played back, the Dolby NR reduced the level of high frequencies back to what it should be (hence also reducing the background hiss). So recording with Dolby off and playing back wilth Dolby on will serve to reduce the level of high frequencies; not what you want with computer tapes. Recording with Dolby on and playing back with Dolby off should probably work; high frequencies will be louder than normal. >For PET (and family) tapes a C2N would probably make a good cassette >machine for playing it initially, since it does some of the signal >restoration itself. Better might be to use a high-end tape deck (maybe a three-head unit) since the transport should give less wow & flutter. -- Mark From red at bears.org Wed Dec 2 16:18:46 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I'm going to see if anything is happening on either of the serial ports in > the meanwhile. Ok, I connected the RS232/RS422 port (which I took to be the primary port) of the Aviion to a serial port on my NeXTcube and got this: obelix% tip ttyb9600 connected NVBATLOW obelix% which I take to mean the NVRAM battery is low. On a SPARCstation, this is a catastrophic-but-repairable problem. This is the only thing I see. There is no obvious battery inside, although there is a socketed RTC chip and some sort of socketed Toshiba chip with what appears to be a speed rating (-15) near it. I can't seem to even get a hardware monitor (not that I know how to interrupt it to get one or anything). What's the prognosis? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 2 16:52:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 2, 98 05:18:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1125 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981202/fa418c5e/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at freegate.com Wed Dec 2 17:20:08 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FT: DEC Dual RX01 Unit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19981202151829.00a786b0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> I am looking to trade a dual RX01 drive unit in fair condition for a 4K word PDP-8/e/m/f core stack (three board G104, G227, H220). If you are interested let me know. --Chuck From red at bears.org Wed Dec 2 17:23:27 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > If the RTC chip is much taller than the other chips on the mainboard (say > about 3/8" high) then it probably contains an internal battery. Dallas > and Mostek/SGS-Thomson made chips like that. It is. I forget offhand who made it, though. Would it be powering the NVRAM, though? On a SPARCstation you actually have to replace the NVRAM chip itself. I guess it couldn't hurt to try to replace it. > You're supposed to replace the chip when the battery fails (after about > 10 years). I have heard of people carefully slicing the top off the > package and replacing the lithium cell inside, but I've not had to do > this myself - yet. It isn't inconceivable; the machine was made in the middle of 1991, so it's probably about time. It looks a lot like a standard part. I'll have to try to source one. > Otherwise the battery could be just about anywhere inside the machine. There is defintely no obvious battery inside. It'd have to be in one of the chips. Since it's almost all small 14-18 pin DIPs and RAM chips, I'm willing to bet the chip containing the battery (if it turns out to be other than the RTC) should be easy to find. ok r. From ai705 at osfn.org Wed Dec 2 17:52:03 1998 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Possible Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton, NY. Note the restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note below. ******************************************************************** Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:39:18 -0500 From: jmagacs@ALTAVISTA.NET Reply to: INFO-ATARI8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU To: INFO-ATARI8@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: This will make some 8-bitter's Christmas Wish come true I am a formerly-avid 8-bitter who finally moved on to a Power Macintosh after 14 years of Atari. My wife won't let me keep my Atari stuff. While I could probably make a little money by selling it piece-meal, I don't want the hassle. Instead I'd like to give it for free to a worthy Atari 8-bit user group (do any still exist?) or a dedicated 8-bit enthusiast. My only restrictions are: 1. The recipient must take everything. There's too much to ship (15 boxes!) so they have to pick it up in the Binghamton, NY area (probably using a van). 2. The recipient can not sell anything received from my collection. Since I gave it away for free, anything the recipient does not keep must in turn be given away for free. All subsequent recipients must also abide by this requirement. The collection of Atari 8-bit stuff includes the following (and more): 1. 5 800 XLs (one NEW in foam). 4 power supplies 2. 1 800/48K (very nice condition) - no power supply 3. 5 1050 disk drives (2 with ICD 1050 doubler upgrade) 4. 2 NEW 1050 drive mechanisms. One non-working 1050 drive mechanism with an uninstalled timing LED that may fix it. 5. 1 MIO/256K - serial port non-functional. RAM-disk works fine. 6. 1 Taxan monitor with separate chroma/lumina input. 7. 1020 plotter with a BAGFULL of replacement pens. 8. 1030 modem and a Hayes 2400 baud modem. 9. XMM801 dot-matrix printer 10. 2 NEW light pens 11. Animation Station touch-tablet 12. 4 track balls. 2 Atari pro-line joysticks. 2 original Atari joysticks. Paddle controller. Driving Controller (never found a game that used it). 13. NEW RT-8 clock cartridge 14. Unassembled SIO2PC kit with software. 15. A HUGE assortment of software. Both productivity (all the First XLent titles), NewStation, PrintShop, C compilers, Forth, Atari Macro Assembler, Assembler Editor, all the ICD assemblers and languages. 2 copies of Sparta DOS X, etc., and lots of games (including Flight Simulator cart and two scenery disks). Most are in original packaging. Also a lot of loose cartridges and three cases of floppies. 16. Lots of books. 17. COMPLETE collection of Antic magazine. ANALOG from early 1985 to end. COMPUTE from early 1985 to end. Most of Atari Explorer. 18. Lots of documentation, Xeroxed articles, etc. about Atari 8-bits. If you're interested in getting all this great stuff subject to the above-stated restrictions, please email me: jmagacs@altavista.net ********************* From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 2 18:02:29 1998 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981202190229.00947ab0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) had spoken clearly: >On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> If the RTC chip is much taller than the other chips on the mainboard (say >> about 3/8" high) then it probably contains an internal battery. Dallas >> and Mostek/SGS-Thomson made chips like that. > >It is. I forget offhand who made it, though. Would it be powering the >NVRAM, though? On a SPARCstation you actually have to replace the NVRAM >chip itself. I guess it couldn't hurt to try to replace it. If the markings are for a Dallas 12887(a) then the NVRAM is integrated with the clock chip & battery. To my knowledge, the closest person to being world-famous for changing a Dallas battery would be Dr. Marty Goodman, of CoCo fame. IIRC, he's a member of a mailing list gatewayed to the newsgroup bit.listserv.coco, so if you send a message there, he should eventually get it (along with everyone else on the gatewayed list, so pose it as a CoCo-ish question... tho CoCoists (IMHO) aren't quite as rabid as some other platform gurus...) >> You're supposed to replace the chip when the battery fails (after about >> 10 years). I have heard of people carefully slicing the top off the >> package and replacing the lithium cell inside, but I've not had to do >> this myself - yet. If it is a Dallas 12887 (without the "A" suffix), I can tell you this: beware of the Dallas 12887. The 12887 has one shortcoming: the NVRAM *cannot* be reset via external means, which means if whatever machine has fouled the NVRAM so badly it can't boot, it'll *never* boot again without replacing the chip itself. Some PC's used this chip, and said machines are a thorn-in-the-side when their NVRAM settings go haywire. IIRC, the Dallas 12887A is pin compatible, and *does* have an NVRAM reset pin... I also know that you can get all the pin info & other stuff from Dallas's website, which is slightly confusing at: http://www.dalsemi.com/ Watch out, tho: All their datasheets are in PDF format, so you'll want to grab Adobe's Acrobat reader to view the sheets with. The page with all of their PDF's for their chips is: http://www.dalsemi.com/DocControl/PDFs/pdfindex.html Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From Dean.Nelson at lmco.com Wed Dec 2 17:57:23 1998 From: Dean.Nelson at lmco.com (Dean A. Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FORSALE(Bids): uVaxes,Monitors,Network,DG Aviions + FREE STUFF In-Reply-To: <000b01be1c93$504cc010$2893f6c6@eng1> Message-ID: <000301be1e4f$83217450$2893f6c6@eng1> Here are the current bids on my computer stuff: If you want to bid, do so by friday. No reasonable offer will be rejected. ----MICRO VAXES and DG Aviions----------- VaxStation 3100 M76, 32MB Ram (Model VS43A-CY) $75 Vax Server 3100, 16MB Ram (Model DJ-31ESA-A-A01) $75 MicroVax 3100-40, 16MB Ram ( Model 450ZM-B9-A01) $100 Data General Aviion Model AV 410 64mb (DG/UX) $50 Data General Aviion Model AV 410 64mb (Boots to HW) NO BID -----MONITORS-------- DEC 19" - Model VR299-DA (Works) $50 DEC 19" - Model VR299-DA (Works) NO BIDS Data General 17" Trinitron GDM-1601 (works) NO BIDS -----Network Bridges---------- Vitalink VX350 4 port/V.35 Ethernet NO BIDS Vitalink TRANSlan 350 8 port/V.35 Ethernet NO BIDS -----KEYBOARDS--------- 8 DEC LK201 keyboards NO BIDS ------FREE STUFF (you just pay the shipping)--------------- Core Intl Hard Drive Model: AT72 (72MB) UP FOR GRABS 19" rack mount hard drive enclosures w/ps TAKEN Desktop hard drive chassis for 2 full height drives. UP FOR GRABS 19" Modem rack with 8 modems (2400 baud) UP FOR GRABS ------------------- Contact: For any Questions during the day: Dean dot Nelson at LMCO dot COM To send a bid or questions: DeanNelson at AOL dot Com From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 2 18:31:12 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Possible Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Stephen Dauphin wrote: > Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton, NY. Note the > restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the > right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note > below. Ya, I'll look for the stuff on eBay in a couple of weeks... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 2 18:46:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 2, 98 06:23:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/f93182ae/attachment.ksh From cdrmool at interlog.com Wed Dec 2 18:50:20 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? Message-ID: Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple terminal. Whose right? who gets to carve the christmas turkey this year? colan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 2 18:52:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981202190229.00947ab0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 2, 98 07:02:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1298 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/6f95d4d4/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Wed Dec 2 18:56:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're both right. TTY's were used both as remote computer terminals and as means for communication for the deaf. -- Doug On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > terminal. > Whose right? who gets to carve the christmas turkey this year? > > colan > > > From ArfonRG at Texas.Net Wed Dec 2 19:16:40 1998 From: ArfonRG at Texas.Net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Model II software... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981202191640.009c6cf0@texas.net> Hey guys..... I have a bunch of TRS-80 Model II 8" software discs with original programs on them..... Anyone have a clue as to how to Archive them????? "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 2 19:44:36 1998 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981202204436.0095c220@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly: >> CoCo-ish question... tho CoCoists (IMHO) aren't quite as rabid as some >> other platform gurus...) > >Speak for yourself. _I_ grew up hacking the coco and I was rabid enough >to be one of the few people in the UK to have a CoCo3. Still have it. >Still love OS-9. But I'm not on the CoCo mailing list (too many machines, >too many mailing lists, my mail is bad enough as it is...) Oh, my CoCo3 is still set up in my office, next to "Goon" (my Clone -- hey, I just thought of this: I know a lot of folks who call BMW cars "bimmers"... would IBM clones rightly be called "bummers"??? ;-). My CoCo2 is still set up back at my "hacker" workbench, with the EPROM programmer (hopefully) eternally affixed to it's cartridge port -- the keyboard felt like someone dumped Pepsi & sand in it... rebuilt it; now it's one of the nicest CoCo keyboards I own. My CoCo1 is set up in my bedroom set up to the Plug-n-Power, and controls some of the lights in my house. Oh, and kiddies, cover your eyes: "Gates be damned... all of my CoCos now have Extended Basic... Couldn't buy it at RS, so what else am I gonna use my EPROMS for??? ;-) Besides, I do own more copies (I have 4 more CoCos) than I use at one time... just not in the right boxes! However, on the CoCo lists I've been on over the years, if a CoCoNut had an Amiga, he wouldn't get receive a second port to his/her posterior... many of the Amigans I've met, while generally wholesome individuals, were quite "ahem... less than goodnatured" when the found out an Amiga was not your sole platform. Of course, this is only my experience, and nowadays it doesn't seem like that anymore... so YMMV, and all that jazz. Just my obversations & opinions... AAMAF, I'm looking to acquire an Amiga 1200 & lotsa stuff with it, and have received a great deal of help from others lately on advice of this new, uncharted universe (well, for me...) >> If it is a Dallas 12887 (without the "A" suffix), I can tell you this: >> beware of the Dallas 12887. The 12887 has one shortcoming: the NVRAM >> *cannot* be reset via external means, which means if whatever machine has > >Do you mean the chip can get into a state where normal writes to the chip >fail, or that there's no way of clearing the chip other than by writing >to it. The latter could prevent a PC from booting, but if you remove the >chip and zero it in a programmer, then it would probably be OK. I was speaking of the latter, but how many "bummer" owners have a programmer that can successfully write to that chip? Ahhh... wait... this is Tony. O.K. -- How many _beginner / novice / PC only_ "bummer" owners.... etc. Outside of this list, I don't know of anyone who could diagnose a problem relating to this chip; and I'm not sure that any of the programmers _I_ own could successfully zero this chip, either. (Sorry to be down on this, but I deal day-in-and-out with folks who call me with: Them: "I couldn't get my Internet running..." Me: "Did you right click on [insert gizmo here]" Them: "What's a right-click?" Me: "That's when you push the right button of the mouse" Them: "What's a mouse?" :-/ ) Most of the folks I deal with don't know PCB stands for "Printed Circuit Board" let alone "Poly-Chlorinated Biphenyls" (toxic flame retardant). Just my (pessimistic) opinion... ;-) See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 2 19:47:23 1998 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Model II software... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981202191640.009c6cf0@texas.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > Hey guys..... > I have a bunch of TRS-80 Model II 8" software discs with original programs > on them..... Anyone have a clue as to how to Archive them????? Are they TRS-DOS? CP/M? (RS? Pickles and Trout?(not the same fish as Jason's), or other?) Xenix? (actually, that would be model 16, but a II could be converted...)) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 2 19:58:56 1998 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Replacing battery in "clock chip" (Was DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981202190229.00947ab0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > If the markings are for a Dallas 12887(a) then the NVRAM is integrated with > the clock chip & battery. To my knowledge, the closest person to being > world-famous for changing a Dallas battery would be Dr. Marty Goodman, of > CoCo fame. IIRC, he's a member of a mailing list gatewayed to the newsgroup > bit.listserv.coco, so if you send a message there, he should eventually get > it (along with everyone else on the gatewayed list, so pose it as a > CoCo-ish question... tho CoCoists (IMHO) aren't quite as rabid as some > other platform gurus...) martygoodman@delphi.com His mother died recently, so he is flitting back and forth between Pinhole and Brooklyn trying to arrange care for his father, etc. Therefore, his "punctuality" in such projects will be further compromised. Don't you just love it when they solder in that chip? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 2 20:04:41 1998 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > terminal. > Whose right? who gets to carve the christmas turkey this year? > colan TDDs (Telecommunication Device for the Deaf), aka TTY, ARE just a simple terminal. However, they have (with few exceptions) stuck with Baudot (Murray), while everyone else upgraded to ASCII. What speed is it? What code? What protocol? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Dec 2 20:16:40 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Audio Cassette formats; Copy protection? References: <199812020802.AAA23153@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3665F487.2F2D9966@goldrush.com> > From: Philip.Belben@pgen.com > Subject: Re: Audio Cassette formats; Copy protection? > > >::There are plenty of ways of preventing a BASIC program from being > listed. > >::Dunno how you prevent it being saved (and say 'BAD PROGRAM'), but I > could > >::probably figure it out given time... Anyone else? The popular (quick) way was to put an RTS in the second cassette buffer with a SYS in the code pointing to it. (on the PET) and save the program from that to the end using the MLM. Then if someone SAVEs it regular and tries it it just crashes. The most ingenious PET protection was to put a bit of code in the FIRST cassette buffer, so you had to save it from the second cassette port using the MLM to make a runnable copy. Second would be to plug a bit of code into the chargot (I think) routine in low memory which will trick the computer in running the program once loaded (this could easily be bypassed on the PET, but on the 64, it was pretty fool-proof. On the 64 if you can get to the vectors before the user can try SAVing, you change the jump address for SAVE (locations 818,819) to your own location. > > On the 64, you could type > > > > 10 remL > > > > (rem, then a shifted-L) > > > > and LIST will stop up with a ?SYNTAX ERROR when it hits that line. > Rather > > easy to defeat but annoying as heck. :-) > > Same on Basic 2 PETS. On BASIC 1 you used shift-K. The character varys on the computer. I think Transactor or Compute did a table of em once. > Possibility that I thought of, but didn't try. Make the initial line a v. > high line number (>63999). Have the program start rem L, then disable the > stop key, then poke that line number to something smaller. Bit harder to > defeat but won't deter the determined cracker. > > Mean trick I did use. In the middle of a subroutine I entered the line > > REM@TURN > > I then found the @ sign and poked the location with 20 (ctrl-T, the PET > backspace) > > This now lists as RETURN but does nothing... So was this to twart those modifying the code, or tracing it?... Oh... add a REM shift-l after it, once the 'fix' it it still doesn't work. Only problem with the delete character is if you list to a printer they will all show up. > > Philip. That same PET program had an ingenious listing protection too, the first two lines were only listable and they were effectively masked by rems with a bunch of delete characters. What the programmer did was break the line links after the second line so the computer thought it was a two line program. But when run the two lines restored the link via POKEs, once it was running past that point, it restored the line break. If you are curious to see this marvel in action it is on-line; check out my Flash Attack page and download either of the PET versions, this was written by Tim Stryker years before he founded Galacticomm. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Dec 2 20:31:53 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: FS: Viking "Moniterm" 21 inch monochrome monitor and micro-channel video card Message-ID: <369af7c1.1384827126@insight> For sale at www.ebay.com: Viking "Moniterm" 21 inch monochrome monitor and Viking "Moniterm" high-res monochrome video card for the micro-channel (PS/2) bus. eBay item #46309964 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=46309964 Also throwing in an Apparat memory expansion card for the original IBM PC/XT. -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.) From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Dec 2 21:22:44 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention In-Reply-To: <007f01be1ccd$07a3c7c0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic .edu.au> Message-ID: <4.1.19981203142003.008efec0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:20 PM 01-12-98 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >Hierarchical Storage Controller. >Waist high filing cabinet sized box, HEAVY too. >Basically, it's a PDP8 I think, running a little o/s called CRONIC >(Colorado Rudimentary Operating Nucleus for Intelligent Controllers) PDP-11 >Pretty much obsolete now. There was a slightly more sophisticated version >called a HSC70 >that used RX floppys instead of the tapes, and could handle more drives, >etc. The -70 had many advantages, speed of booting being the most interesting. Increased data access speeds when booted was also and advantage :-) There were HSC-90s as well, which had a SCSI option card to allow you to attach expensive SCSI disks to an expensive HSC to an expensive VAX (or alpha).... >I think there were a couple of models after that too. I've seen a HSC70 at >a scrap dealer recently. Excuse me, I've still got one in production and a couple of spares in my "spares" room.... >Allison or one of the other Master Decologists will doubtless correct any >mistakes in the above. :^) Well I'm not Allison :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Dec 2 21:25:00 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: 's message of Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:50:20 -0500 (EST) References: Message-ID: <199812030325.TAA00404@daemonweed.reanimators.org> wrote: > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > terminal. Silentwriter or Whisperwriter? I think I remember the 3M flavor having the latter name. I played with one of them back in 1983 or 1984. That one had a keyboard connected to a thermal printer by some sort of cord (they were separate boxes), and I think an RJ11 phone jack for a POTS line. As I recall it was an ASCII terminal plus modem with a memory buffer that could be used for offline composition, and it came to us recommended as a tool for composing and sending Telexes via Western Union's Easylink service. (We sent it back and made an HP150 do the job.) I don't remember if it could be made to do other codes than ASCII. More recently (early 1990s), I've seen one with a little CRT (again in a separate box) used as a Telex terminal, but didn't inquire to find out how it was connected or what was on the other end of the connection. -Frank McConnell From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Dec 2 21:28:11 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention In-Reply-To: <199812010325.WAA00382@pechter.dyn.ml.org> References: <981130212817.2de00192@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19981203142347.00b72280@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 10:25 PM 30-11-98 -0500, Bill Pechter wrote: >I thought the 8600's used Pro350's when I worked on them. >Some of the later 8000 series used Pro380's, I was told. The 8600s had an 11/0x (for some value of x, probably 4) which lived in the same Unibus box as the VAX Unibus peripherals. Nautilus class machines 85xx, 8700 and 8800 had Pro consoles 350s and 380s. The later model 88xx systems used MicroVAX-IIs as a console. I no longer have any 8xxx class machines, but I still have all the consoles (they are _much_ easier to store :-)) I had this theory that Digital used excess systems as consoles and as they ran out of a particular type, created a new system to use the next set of redundant hardware... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Dec 2 21:39:00 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:52 2005 Subject: Wanted -- Apple IIGS keys Message-ID: <01be1e6e$77312d60$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Did you ever dig out the right arrow keycap? Thanks manney >Yeah, it would. I have my old GS keyboard that's suspiciously dead (I think it >was christened by the cat) if all you need is keycaps. >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 2 22:02:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie Message-ID: <199812030402.AA03221@world.std.com> < > costs. The user base however could never work with linux(unix). < < How wrong you are, Allison. How wrong you are. < < My friend is running Linux on his home PC, but if you didn't know any < better (and if you didn't look close enough) you'd swear he was running < Windows 95. The fact is that his desktop might as well BE Win95, becaus < it is stolen from the look & feel of Win95. Its called the Star Office Will it run paradox for windows, does the email work like outlook? Does netscapr for linux look and feel like the windorers version? I understand this user base was slow to accept and use computers. It's important as *I* support the user base, maintain the systems and create (or install) new applications and train the users, not *we*. It's not a rant on linux, The comments I made were to the effect of being impartial. If I had my way they'd be on OpenVMS. < Suite. Find yourself a copy and install it on your Linux box. You'll How much? Reply off line on this. < never boot Win95 again. You'll never need to. I never boot it here but work is a different case. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 2 22:02:21 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie Message-ID: <199812030402.AA03276@world.std.com> < There really isn't a good "open source" GUI alternative to Windows yet, < the best approach for now is to emulate the Win32 API on top of Linux t And when there is MS will change the API. < But, you're right, I find it much easier to sneak Linux into the server < side of a corporation than into the client/desktop side. Maybe if Java < performance and look+feel improve another order of magnitude, that won' < be as much of an issue. there is potential there but only if none of the apps used run on the server. It'd be easy to put a linux box online as a data sink. I may do it unofficially and try it before trying to migrate anything from the general user community. Oh, what I run on "my" desk is up to me but for many reasons win95 and nt will have to be there but I can have a Linux system too. Allison From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 2 22:08:00 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Wanted -- Apple IIGS keys In-Reply-To: <01be1e6e$77312d60$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> from "PG Manney" at Dec 02, 1998 10:39:00 PM Message-ID: <199812030408.VAA15287@calico.litterbox.com> Ack! A thousand pardons, I completely spaced it. I've been jamming to get my thesis first rev out. I'll get it in the mail hopefully tomorrow. -Jim> > Did you ever dig out the right arrow keycap? > > Thanks > manney > > > > +AD4-Yeah, it would. I have my old GS keyboard that's suspiciously dead (I > think it > +AD4-was christened by the cat) if all you need is keycaps. > +AD4--- > +AD4-Jim Strickland > +AD4-jim+AEA-DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > +AD4------------------------------------------------------------------------ > +AD4-Vote Meadocrat+ACE- Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > +AD4------------------------------------------------------------------------ > +AD4- > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Wed Dec 2 22:22:24 1998 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Osborne for sale (fwd) Message-ID: Please reply to the original sender if interested. Reply-to: siiqa@earthlink.net Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web page update: 11/02/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:55:10 -0600 From: Russ McDonald To: "'vcf@vintage.org'" Subject: Osborne for sale Dear sir: I have Osborne 1 with all documentation including Personal Pearl, Word Sar, Supercalc, Dbase 2 . Machine still runs and is in excellent shape, that I would like to sell. Russ McDonald rmac@mitec.net From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 2 22:54:24 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Now VERY *OT* (hit delete now): RE: networking newbie In-Reply-To: <199812030402.AA03221@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 2, 98 11:02:14 pm Message-ID: <199812030454.UAA02703@saul7.u.washington.edu> > < How wrong you are, Allison. How wrong you are. > < it is stolen from the look & feel of Win95. Its called the Star Office > Will it run paradox for windows, does the email work like outlook? Does > netscapr for linux look and feel like the windorers version? I This thread seems to have degenerated in an argument about completely MODERN (i.e., non-classic) operating systems. Isn't it also happening in newsgroups, like alt.folklore.computers (which I also read)? Go bug them or something. :) -- Derek From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 2 22:59:18 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Model II software... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981202191640.009c6cf0@texas.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > Hey guys..... > > I have a bunch of TRS-80 Model II 8" software discs with original programs > on them..... Anyone have a clue as to how to Archive them????? Well, it depends on what you mean by archive. Also, whether you simply want to save the programs or an image of a bootable disk. Then there is also the matter of what the format of the disks is. (Does that mean it depends on what the meaning of "is" is?) First, you obviously need an 8" drive connected to a PC. (See the CP/M FAQ for the connections.) Then, if you want to get the image to other than 8" disks, you can transfer the disk image to 5.25" HD using Sydex' AnaDisk, irrespective of whether it is TRSDOS or CP/M. If CP/M, Sydex' 22Disk will permit copying the files to the media of your choice. If TRSDOS, I draw a blank. If your intent is to archive disk images to hard disk storage, the only program that I am aware of that will do this is Sydex' TeleDisk. It has been off shareware for about six years, but there are still copies about. Of course, there is a commercial version available for $150. This just touches the high points, but may give you some ideas. - don > "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build > bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce > bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook > > From red at bears.org Wed Dec 2 23:15:06 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > If the RTC chip is much taller than the other chips on the mainboard (say > about 3/8" high) then it probably contains an internal battery. Dallas > and Mostek/SGS-Thomson made chips like that. Here are the two likely candidates: (date code) ST 99045 MK48T02B-15 TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE The ST part of the above is a logo. If I recognized it I'd have mentioned the actual name of the manufacturer. (: The other possibility is this: TOSHIBA Japan TC541000P-15 VPP 12.5V (date code) > Otherwise the battery could be just about anywhere inside the machine. Unlikely. The machine is a pizzabox configuration, with the entirety of the mainboard in plain view. There isn't even mounting hardware for an internal drive. There's just _nothing_ in the box. ok r. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Dec 2 23:45:55 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > terminal. Does this have a light brown and white motif? Keys are brown? I have a picture of this in a data processing book I just picked up that shows a woman typing on it. She doesn't look blind. There's also an acoustically coupled modem attached with a phone handset plug into it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From mbg at world.std.com Wed Dec 2 23:50:03 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention References: <981130212817.2de00192@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199812030550.AA11679@world.std.com> >The 8600s had an 11/0x (for some value of x, probably 4) which lived in >the same Unibus box as the VAX Unibus peripherals. Nautilus class >machines 85xx, 8700 and 8800 had Pro consoles 350s and 380s. The later >model 88xx systems used MicroVAX-IIs as a console. I no longer have any >8xxx class machines, but I still have all the consoles (they are _much_ >easier to store :-)) The 11/780 used an 11/03. I think the 8600 used a T-11 with a somewhat strange memory management setup which wasn't part of normal T-11s. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Wed Dec 2 23:52:20 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Does this have a light brown and white motif? Keys are brown? I have a > picture of this in a data processing book I just picked up that shows a > woman typing on it. She doesn't look blind. There's also an acoustically > coupled modem attached with a phone handset plug into it. She doesn't look blind? Wrong sense organ, Sam. -- Doug From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Thu Dec 3 00:07:46 1998 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> Message-ID: <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> I recently picked up a Compaq SLT/286 and would like to purchase any documentation for it. Anybody have docs for a reasonable price? Thanks, Richard Hall Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 3 00:15:45 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: (red@bears.org) References: Message-ID: <19981203061545.25962.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Here are the two likely candidates: > > (date code) > ST 99045 > MK48T02B-15 > TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM > DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE > > The ST part of the above is a logo. If I recognized it I'd have mentioned > the actual name of the manufacturer. SGS-Thomson. The MK is a Mostek prefix; SGS-Thomson bought Mostek from United Technologies some years back. Now SGS-Thomson has changed their name to STMicro. In any case, the 48T02 should be pretty easy to find as it is a very common device. > The other possibility is this: > > TOSHIBA Japan > TC541000P-15 > VPP 12.5V (date code) Are you sure that's not a TC571000? I thought the TC54xxx parts were usually DRAMs, which wouldn't have a VPP. EPROMs would have VPP, but I think they generally have TC57xxx numbers. In either case, this isn't the part you're looking for. Eric From cdrmool at interlog.com Thu Dec 3 00:16:43 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As to speed, protocol, etc. I won't know until I either find some documentation or get a chance to change the phone jack to try it out. Thanks Colan On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > > terminal. > > Whose right? who gets to carve the christmas turkey this year? > > colan > > TDDs (Telecommunication Device for the Deaf), aka TTY, ARE just a simple > terminal. However, they have (with few exceptions) stuck with Baudot > (Murray), while everyone else upgraded to ASCII. > > What speed is it? > What code? > What protocol? > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > From cdrmool at interlog.com Thu Dec 3 00:20:40 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, thats the one. Theres no acoustic modem attatched. This looks like its internal. Rats, I'd love to play with an acoustic modem again. I'd have to drag out the old phone though... thanks Colan > > Does this have a light brown and white motif? Keys are brown? I have a > picture of this in a data processing book I just picked up that shows a > woman typing on it. She doesn't look blind. There's also an acoustically > coupled modem attached with a phone handset plug into it. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Dec 3 00:45:40 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > (date code) > ST 99045 > MK48T02B-15 > TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM > DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This says it all. You never want to throw a battery into an open fire, unless you want an explosion. I say throw it in an open fire. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Dec 3 00:46:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Does this have a light brown and white motif? Keys are brown? I have a > > picture of this in a data processing book I just picked up that shows a > > woman typing on it. She doesn't look blind. There's also an acoustically > > coupled modem attached with a phone handset plug into it. > > She doesn't look blind? Wrong sense organ, Sam. Uh, she doesn't taste blind? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Dec 3 01:20:12 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Auction Results, Birman's, ??? Message-ID: Did anyone go to the Birman's Diversified Auction, I think on Tuesday, to see what VAX stuff was there? I am interested in how the sale went and what kind of prices things brought. Please reply to me at Whoagiii@aol.com. Thanks, Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Dec 3 01:32:01 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Any Zilog 8000 collectors out there. Message-ID: While rummaging through the back corner of the whse I stumbled across a bare Zilog 8000 card cage with a full complement of cards. Circa 1983 Mfg. Every slot full. This would be a great backup card set or a way to get a non-working Zilog up and running. I also have an extra memory card beyond that. I also discovered a Daisy Logician Card Multibus cage and cards also. I doubt anyone is collecting these though. If interested please reply to whoagiii@aol.com directly. Thanks for the list, Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Dec 3 02:08:21 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Dec RC25 offered Message-ID: I have a Dec RC25-AA Rev C1 with one RC25K-DC disk pack that I am listing on the DDA Tradeloop mailer. It is a desktop disk subsystem with a 26 Mb fixed disk and a 26 Mb. removable cartridge disk. It is in good condition. with one disk pack and the Users Guide. It connects to a KLESI controller, either Unibus or Qbus, which I do not have. I am open to all offers. Shipping weight will be about 70 pounds. Please reply to whoagiii@aol.com Thanks, Paxton Hoag Portland, Oregon From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 3 02:35:00 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Eric Smith "Re: DG Aviion video" (Dec 3, 6:15) References: <19981203061545.25962.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <9812030835.ZM7869@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 6:15, Eric Smith wrote: > Are you sure that's not a TC571000? I thought the TC54xxx parts were usually > DRAMs, which wouldn't have a VPP. No, 57xxxx is stadard EPROM, 54xxxx is one-time PROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 3 02:32:31 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: 3M silentwriter model 1483? In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail "Re: 3M silentwriter model 1483?" (Dec 2, 21:45) References: Message-ID: <9812030832.ZM7864@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 2, 21:45, Sam Ismail wrote: > Subject: Re: 3M silentwriter model 1483? > On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > > Anyone know the story behind this? Its a small keyboard connected to a > > small thermal paper printer. It has an old 70's style phone jack > > (at least the kind we used in Ontario Canada) coming out the back of the > > printer. My father who found it says he thinks its one of the early > > devices used by the deaf. I think it was probably just a simple > > terminal. > > Does this have a light brown and white motif? Keys are brown? I have a > picture of this in a data processing book I just picked up that shows a > woman typing on it. She doesn't look blind. There's also an acoustically > coupled modem attached with a phone handset plug into it. They were quite popular in the late 70's/early 80's as dial-up terminals in places like libraries. Ours had one to access the Dialog database. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 3 02:31:12 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" "Re: DG Aviion video" (Dec 3, 0:15) References: Message-ID: <9812030831.ZM7860@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 0:15, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > Here are the two likely candidates: > > (date code) > ST 99045 > MK48T02B-15 > TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM > DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE That's the same NVRAM/clock chip with built-in lithium battery that was used in several Sun Sparcstations. The Sun hardware FAQ has lots of information on replacing them with the Dallas equivalent, and has information (and pointers to other docs) about opening it up to get at the battery if you want to try using an external battery. > TOSHIBA Japan > TC541000P-15 > VPP 12.5V (date code) That's the same EPROM used by Sparcstations as the boot ROM. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 3 03:44:14 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <9812030835.ZM7869@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> (pete@dunnington.u-net.com) References: <19981203061545.25962.qmail@brouhaha.com> <9812030835.ZM7869@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <19981203094414.27022.qmail@brouhaha.com> Pete Turnbull writes about Toshiba chips: > No, 57xxxx is stadard EPROM, 54xxxx is one-time PROM. Learn something new every day! It's really aggravating that not only do most semiconductor vendors not have data on their old products on line, but not even a listing with a one line description. From pnt at minster.cs.york.ac.uk Thu Dec 3 04:15:54 1998 From: pnt at minster.cs.york.ac.uk (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <9812031015.ZM23900@minster.cs.york.ac.uk> Eric Smith wrote: > It's really aggravating that not only do most semiconductor vendors not > have data on their old products on line, but not even a listing with a > one line description. Actually, quite a lot of them do have info (if sometimes well hidden) but some -- Intel comes to mind -- aren't very good about keeping old stuff, and Toshiba are pretty hopeless. I needed some other info from the same data book that those EPROMs are in, a few years ago, and ended up phoning Toshiba to get it. Turns out they stopped making EPROMs about a year before, and no longer had the data sheets themselves! Luckily one particularly helpful customer support person found me what appeared to be the last copy of the Data Book. I was very glad I checked, because there are two common pinouts for EPROMs in that sort of size range. Most manufacturers distinguish them by either using the last four digits in the form "1024" or "1000", or they use "1001" versus "1000". Except Toshiba -- where others used "1000" they used "1001" and vice-versa. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From neil at goodnet.com Thu Dec 3 05:30:25 1998 From: neil at goodnet.com (Neil B. Sheldon Sr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b Front Panel Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981203043025.0072d0e8@207.98.129.100> For sale at ebay.com: Altair - 8800b Front Panel - S100 - (PICS) Item #45501676 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45501676 Neil B. Sheldon Sr. Sr. Engineering Technician neil@goodnet.com From fauradon at pclink.com Thu Dec 3 06:11:55 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <001001be1eb6$1f1b0c20$dd010bce@francois> Have you looked there? http://www.compaq.com/support/portables/out_of_production/SLT286.html Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/ >I recently picked up a Compaq SLT/286 and would like to purchase any >documentation for it. Anybody have docs for a reasonable price? >Thanks, >Richard Hall From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Thu Dec 3 07:39:48 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds & Thoughts In-Reply-To: <802566CD.003A653A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: >>> Possibly. But I distinctly recall that when we recorded tapes for sale >>> using the tape deck from my Sanyo stereo (not on a PET BTW - this was a >BBC >>> micro) we found that Dolby noise reduction had to be disabled for it to >>> work... >> >> Did you try recroding with Dolby and then replaying on a machine with >> Dolby noise reduction (turned on), or replaying on the normal cheap >> cassette recorder that you use with computers? If the former, then I am >> not suprised it didn't work - the frequency response would have been >> rather odd. The latter should have worked, though. > >We didn't try recording with Dolby and playing back without. I'd be very >surprised if that worked (did you mean it that way round). I think it says record with Dolby on and play with Dolby on. >I can't >remember if we recorded with and played back with - I imagine that would >work Should work. Because what Dolby does to the sound it undoes afterwards and you theoretically have a recording closer to the original than normally possible - without the extra hiss due to the recording process. Theoretically you shouldn't lose any hiss from the original. But, even if you did, the computer doesn't really need it. - but we definitely couldn't get it to work recording without and >playing back with, although this actually works quite well for music. I've noticed exactly the opposite. Recording with and playing without gives a 'crisper' sound. But, doing any of these two would be altering the sound. >> I would be suprised if you couldn't make a CD that could be loaded. I >> can't try it because I have no way of writing to a CD. > >I never meant to imply that you couldn't make a CD that could be loaded. >What I meant was you probably have to be more sophisticated than old >cassette -> digitised audio -> audio CD. Why not? If it works for the tape then it will definitely work for the CD. >I'd recommend old cassette -> >signal restoration -> digital signal (0s and 1s sampled at some highish >speed) -> possibly prefilter to pre-emptively undo the CD player's output >filter -> digitised audio -> audio CD. Possibly a better result. If you know what you are doing. Nasos From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Thu Dec 3 07:45:42 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Barely on-topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >It may not be a fish at all. Missing any underwear or socks? It could also >be a >leftover Tuna salad on rye. Which is a fish, isn't it? ;)= Nasos From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 3 08:55:58 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Audio Cassette formats; Copy protection? In-Reply-To: <3665F487.2F2D9966@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson" at Dec 2, 98 06:16:40 pm Message-ID: <199812031455.GAA30676@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/45a793a6/attachment.ksh From amirault at epix.net Thu Dec 3 10:06:53 1998 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Possible Rescue References: Message-ID: <3666B71D.E566C83@epix.net> Stephen, Hi, I live in susquehanna, Pa. and would be willing to come pick this stuff up. Please send me an email to amirault@epix.net Thanks, John Amirault. I am an avid IBM PCjr collector, my brother has an atari system in Casper, Wyo., I think. Stephen Dauphin wrote: > Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton, NY. Note the > restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the > right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note > below. > > ******************************************************************** > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:39:18 -0500 > From: jmagacs@ALTAVISTA.NET > Reply to: INFO-ATARI8@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU > To: INFO-ATARI8@VM.MARIST.EDU > Subject: This will make some 8-bitter's Christmas Wish come true > > I am a formerly-avid 8-bitter who finally moved on to a Power Macintosh > after 14 years of Atari. My wife won't let me keep > my Atari stuff. While I could probably make a little money by selling it > piece-meal, I don't want the hassle. Instead I'd > like to give it for free to a worthy Atari 8-bit user group (do any still > exist?) or a dedicated 8-bit enthusiast. > > My only restrictions are: > > 1. The recipient must take everything. There's too much to ship (15 > boxes!) so they have to pick it up in the Binghamton, > NY area (probably using a van). > > 2. The recipient can not sell anything received from my collection. > Since I gave it away for free, anything the recipient > does not keep must in turn be given away for free. All subsequent > recipients must also abide by this requirement. > > The collection of Atari 8-bit stuff includes the following (and more): > 1. 5 800 XLs (one NEW in foam). 4 power supplies > 2. 1 800/48K (very nice condition) - no power supply > 3. 5 1050 disk drives (2 with ICD 1050 doubler upgrade) > 4. 2 NEW 1050 drive mechanisms. One non-working 1050 drive mechanism > with an uninstalled timing LED that may fix it. > 5. 1 MIO/256K - serial port non-functional. RAM-disk works fine. > 6. 1 Taxan monitor with separate chroma/lumina input. > 7. 1020 plotter with a BAGFULL of replacement pens. > 8. 1030 modem and a Hayes 2400 baud modem. > 9. XMM801 dot-matrix printer > 10. 2 NEW light pens > 11. Animation Station touch-tablet > 12. 4 track balls. 2 Atari pro-line joysticks. 2 original Atari > joysticks. Paddle controller. Driving Controller (never > found a game that used it). > 13. NEW RT-8 clock cartridge > 14. Unassembled SIO2PC kit with software. > 15. A HUGE assortment of software. Both productivity (all the First > XLent titles), NewStation, PrintShop, C compilers, > Forth, Atari Macro Assembler, Assembler Editor, all the ICD assemblers > and languages. 2 copies of Sparta DOS X, etc., and > lots of games (including Flight Simulator cart and two scenery disks). > Most are in original packaging. Also a lot of > loose cartridges and three cases of floppies. > 16. Lots of books. > 17. COMPLETE collection of Antic magazine. ANALOG from early 1985 to > end. COMPUTE from early 1985 to end. Most of Atari > Explorer. > 18. Lots of documentation, Xeroxed articles, etc. about Atari 8-bits. > > If you're interested in getting all this great stuff subject to the > above-stated restrictions, please email me: > > jmagacs@altavista.net > ********************* From ArfonRG at Texas.Net Thu Dec 3 10:14:21 1998 From: ArfonRG at Texas.Net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Model II software... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19981202191640.009c6cf0@texas.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203101421.00929600@texas.net> >Are they TRS-DOS? >CP/M? (RS? Pickles and Trout?(not the same fish as Jason's), or other?) >Xenix? (actually, that would be model 16, but a II could be converted...)) TRSDOS. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Dec 3 10:54:54 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: OK, I'm stuck. I need a RSTS tape. Message-ID: <13408850358.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I think INIT's corrupt. Specifically, SAVRES. I'm trying to shove the RA81 on a tape. I say SAVRES, from DU0: to MS0:, and it says INITIALIZING FIRST SAVE SET or something along those lines, shoves the tape around for about 45 minutes, then says STARTING SAVE FROM DU0: TO MS0: AT XX:XX AM (or something similar) and hangs there (not doing anything) for a few minutes, after which it traps through 10. (Illegal Instruction, I think...) Does anyone have a RSTS 8.0-07 tape I can suck just INIT off of? Is there any way to do this under timesharing? I don't have BACKUP... Seems someone's removed that too. ------- From John.Dykstra.jdykstra at nt.com Thu Dec 3 12:38:33 1998 From: John.Dykstra.jdykstra at nt.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Any collectors in Minneapolis? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203123833.0091dbb0@47.161.112.121> >I constantly drool over stuff that's in the Charles Babbage Institute's >archives, but I don't get to Minneapolis very often (OK, I *never* get to >Minneapolis). > >Are there any Minneapolitans (?) out there willing to copy a few goodies >from their archives? I'd pay for copying, shipping, gas, and probably a >coupla bucks more. I can't volunteer, since I'm usually working during the hours the Institute office is open. Anyone thinking of dropping in on the Institute should be aware that their building will be extensively renovated during 1999-2000. Accordingly, they will be in temporary quarters for quite a while, and I suspect much of the collection will be inaccessible during that time. For those unfamiliar with the Babbage Institute, they have a fair amount of material available at . >(besides, what else are you going to do when it's snowing >out?). That's never a problem. I'm always figuring I'll get projects done "during the winter," and I rarely get done with more than a handful of them. :-{ ---- John Dykstra jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: +1 651 415-1604 Nortel Networks fax: +1 612 932-8549 From cmcmanis at freegate.com Thu Dec 3 13:56:18 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Auction Results, Birman's, ??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19981203115333.009cd220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> I usually get there every tuesday. (it is Bermans BTW) Unfortunately they don't tell you what it went for unless you bid on it, and I'm careful now not to bid on something I can't sneak past my wife. However, the clerk said the 8650 went for "about $200" and the disk racks for about $50 each. --Chuck At 02:20 AM 12/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >Did anyone go to the Birman's Diversified Auction, I think on Tuesday, to see >what VAX stuff was there? I am interested in how the sale went and what kind >of prices things brought. Please reply to me at Whoagiii@aol.com. >Thanks, >Paxton From erd at infinet.com Thu Dec 3 13:59:21 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input In-Reply-To: <199811300326.AA26787@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Nov 29, 98 10:26:40 pm Message-ID: <199812031959.OAA08803@user2.infinet.com> > > The key to the elf design was minimalism and low cost. True. > Substituting a latch and LEDs for a binary display instead of the til311 > is cheaper and more buildable. True, but the TIL's are so cool. > using modern cmos and rams help. At least in terms of not having to dig up 1822/2101's, yes. > The basic elf was far to minimal and frequently expanded to get desired > functions. The basic design did not easily permit that as it didn't > decode memory or IO addresses. Also true. One of it's big limitations. At the time, however, to add even a 4-bit patch and more RAM would have been a major expense, for the RAM, that is. The latch would have been under $1. > The RCA VIP or the 18S020 Evaluation board allowed far more flexibility > with relatively little more logic. Thei cost was they had some rom. I have a picture of that board in my RCA circular. I lusted for one when all I had was an Elf. > This is a reproducable design. UT4 fits in 512byts of a 2716, the rest of > the ram can be done with byte wide parts. The 1852s can be kept and the > rest were common 40xx series. With 4k of ram and UT4 (or similar) > programs like PILOT, TinyBasic, or some of the other neat software with a > terminal. What was the memory map? > A much simplifed machine using 1802, 2 1852, 2 4028, 2 4042, 1 62256, > 1 2716 and 1 6116, some glue logic for reset, run, runp and the same > serial scheme as 18S020 would give 32k of contigious ram, 2k-32byts in the > >8000h area and the remaining 1.5k in the 2716 could hold any number of > things along with the .5k ut4 monitor. This would be a very useful > system that could accomodate expansion for IO (more ram??????). That sounds very much like what I'm designing here. Not identical, but similar. I would need to know lots more before I could even attempt to make it compatible. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Thu Dec 3 14:10:09 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input In-Reply-To: <19981130152548.58605b69.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Nov 30, 98 03:37:40 pm Message-ID: <199812032010.PAA08983@user2.infinet.com> > > Ethan Dicks said: > >I am cranking along with the capture of the Elf99 design .... > > I just found this thread. This is a great idea and should have been > tried sooner. I'll buy one. Cool. > >Did I miss anything? Any other suggestions? > > The only thing I see missing is the expansion bus connector. > (Did I miss that part?) Not explicitly, but I was thinking of bringing in the signals to the prototyping area in a fashion that was physically compatible with the Elf-II bus standard. > There are hundreds of things that would be nice to have, but it's > important that the design be finished and the boards made. Leave the > bells and whistles to the end users. If you create an Elf that can > address about 2K, has a small prototype area, and has a good > expansion bus, then all things are possible. (Including S-100 interface) > You should copy one of the two Super Elf buses. There are *two*? I only know of the one, not that I could find any 86-pin edge connectors. > > A protoyping area of .1" spaced plated-through holes, nominally > > a few inches long by one or two inches wide. > > A prototype area should be for wirewrapping. I don't see any need > for plated-through holes, and pads are not REALLY necessary either. plated-through holes are cheaper than non-plated-through holes. > The 1861 should be easy to add on later. In the prototype area or hot melted > to the top of another chip. Just make sure it's easy to cut the trace for the > original clock circuit and wire in the new one. The original clock circuit is a crystal attached to the CPU. Presumably, you'd just buy the correct frequency crystal (1.7 something Mhz) -ethan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 3 11:54:28 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Any Zilog 8000 collectors out there. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981203115428.49370d24@intellistar.net> I think I have a Zilog manual for the Z-8000 if someone needs it. Joe At 02:32 AM 12/3/98 EST, you wrote: >While rummaging through the back corner of the whse I stumbled across a bare >Zilog 8000 card cage with a full complement of cards. Circa 1983 Mfg. Every >slot full. This would be a great backup card set or a way to get a non-working >Zilog up and running. I also have an extra memory card beyond that. > >I also discovered a Daisy Logician Card Multibus cage and cards also. I doubt >anyone is collecting these though. > >If interested please reply to whoagiii@aol.com directly. > >Thanks for the list, >Paxton > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Dec 3 14:40:24 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> What do you need to know? The memory is a special type SIMM available in 1 or 4mb versions and up to 3 can be added. The video modes can be switched with ALT > and ALT < if you want to hook up an external monitor. The hard drive is a stock IDE 3.5" but only certain capacities will work and it must have the small 3 pin power plug on it to accomodate the power adapter of the machine. I think I used a Seagate ST-3144 120mb drive in my last one and set it for type 26. It does need a setup disk, available at the out of production site at http://www.compaq.com/support/portables/out_of_production/SLT286.html . To open the unit you have to remove the covers on the right side of the hinge (as you sit using it) to gain access to the ground and keyboard connections. Then you remove the 6 screws on the back, remove the battery. Pull the ground and keyboard connections at the cover point out carefully. Then just push the guts out by way of the battery compartment until you have the video cable holding you up. Remove the single screw holding down the cable and then pull the video connector out and swing to the side. Pull the guts fully out where you can work on it. The hard drive and floppy drive are stock types and the removal/installation is a no-brainer. The memory is located under the cover that has the LED's located between the drives in the front of the motherboard. The modem (if installed) has 2 or 3 screws holding it and just pulls out after the screws are removed. The screen is 640x480 VGA monochrome but better results show if you install software as color vga. Many other features such as screen blank are settable by way of the setup disk. So what did you need to know? Drop me a d irect note if you need any further help. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY Richard A. Hall wrote: > I recently picked up a Compaq SLT/286 and would like to purchase any > documentation for it. Anybody have docs for a reasonable price? > Thanks, > Richard Hall > > Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From kurtkilg at geocities.com Thu Dec 3 15:00:57 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <98120316020302.00293@localhost.localdomain> You should check out Compaq's site, it has some interesting stuff in .PDF format (mostly). That said, if anyone has docs for a Compaq LTE/Lite-25, I'd be glad to buy them too. On Thu, 03 Dec 1998, you wrote: >I recently picked up a Compaq SLT/286 and would like to purchase any >documentation for it. Anybody have docs for a reasonable price? >Thanks, >Richard Hall > > > >Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 3 15:08:48 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input In-Reply-To: <199812032010.PAA08983@user2.infinet.com> (message from Ethan Dicks on Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:10:09 -0500 (EST)) References: <199812032010.PAA08983@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <19981203210848.30062.qmail@brouhaha.com> Ethan wrote: > plated-through holes are cheaper than non-plated-through holes. Only on a board that has both. A board with no plated-through holes is cheaper than a board with all plated-through. The plating is an extra manufacturing step. From erd at infinet.com Thu Dec 3 15:43:59 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input In-Reply-To: <19981203210848.30062.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 3, 98 09:08:48 pm Message-ID: <199812032144.QAA10838@user2.infinet.com> > > Ethan wrote: > > plated-through holes are cheaper than non-plated-through holes. > > Only on a board that has both. Well, yes, that's true. The idea of making a modern board without any plated-through holes is a bit absurd. > A board with no plated-through holes is cheaper than a board with > all plated-through. The plating is an extra manufacturing step. Yes, it's an extra step. Yes, I'm going to do it. Even the Quest Elf from twenty years ago had plated through holes. -ethan From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Dec 3 16:15:35 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: System 36 Peripheral - Heads up Message-ID: <19981203.161619.265.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: This was posted to the NG a week ago-- DOn't know if he still has it. COntact this guy directly . . . . . ********************************************** From: user643249@aol.com (User643249) Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.storage Subject: IBM System 36 (50 lb) HD FS Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Nov 1998 13:58:28 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19981125085828.10541.00000420@ng-ce1.aol.com> Xref: Sn misc.forsale.computers.storage:96713 IBM System 36 HDD , 27 MEG About the size of a tower system and three times as heavy. It does have a clear cover over the heads and disks so they can be observed in operation- if you can get it working which was no mean feat and required a system 36 as the interface is proprietary. It's also missing the drive belt between the auto starter size electrical motor and the pulley/axle of the disks - but an auto fan belt should be about the right size. If you have a use (ie. display , teaching aid, etc) for it let me know - shortly.. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 15:54:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: Replacing battery in "clock chip" (Was DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 2, 98 05:58:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 178 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/ddac2c7b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 15:53:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981202204436.0095c220@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 2, 98 08:44:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2104 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/c6e4e3fc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 15:59:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 00:15:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1140 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/5863486a/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Thu Dec 3 17:06:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I've had to explain what 'out of paper' means on a printer. And then had > to explain why a printer needs paper (!). Yeah, why does a printer need paper? Talk about an inefficient process: plant seeds, nurture for 20 years, chop down tree, grind to a pulp, form into paper, warehouse, retail, unwrap, feed paper into printer. Why can't I just leave the printer by the window and water it once in a while? -- Doug From red at bears.org Thu Dec 3 17:13:39 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE is the biggest clue. It contains a lithium > battery. Burning one of those makes it go bang. I knew that much, at least. I was being silly including it. (: > That's the chip. The 48T02 is still fairly easy to get. Of course check > the datecode.... Can anybody suggest a source? The only one I'm remotely familiar with is Jameco, but they have such byzantine rules for ordering (and a glossy catalogue.. somehow glossy pages in a components catalogue is sleazy) that I'd rather not deal with them. I'll check out Digi-key if I can find the catalogue and nobody jumps up and says, "Eugh! Don't order from THEM.." > Well, that sounds like an EPROM/OTP EPROM. The Vpp 12.5v means that the > programming voltage is 12.5V, a common value for modern EPROMS. That makes sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely damp enough that I don't think it was a problem. ok r. From red at bears.org Thu Dec 3 17:17:57 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Why can't I just leave the printer by the window and water it once in a > while? Calls to mind leaving silly messages on the dot-matrix LED display of an HP LaserJet 4 printer... some of my favourites to leave were: "17 COLON BLOCKED" (17 was the error code with no error associated) "INSERT 25 CENTS" "WARP CORE BREACH" Colon blocked turned out to be too plausible, though, and people ended up coming to me with very concerned expressions. Oh well. ok r. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 3 17:40:00 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:53 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:17:57 pm Message-ID: <199812032340.PAA14706@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981203/957158d7/attachment.ksh From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Dec 3 18:05:14 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <03b401be1f1a$10781af0$bf281bce@p166> >Calls to mind leaving silly messages on the dot-matrix LED display of an >HP LaserJet 4 printer... some of my favourites to leave were: > >"17 COLON BLOCKED" (17 was the error code with no error associated) >"INSERT 25 CENTS" >"WARP CORE BREACH" > >Colon blocked turned out to be too plausible, though, and people ended up >coming to me with very concerned expressions. Oh well. > Looks like you like to play tricks on users as well. I used to send "FATAL SYSTEM CRASH" on networked PDP11's, VAXstations and Alphastations. It is amazing the panic that things like that will create. Not to mention the "Virus" messages to opa0: on April 1. Dan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 18:12:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 3, 98 05:06:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/0de077a3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 18:16:45 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1387 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/be06a406/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 18:26:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:17:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/6080ec18/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 19:13:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <03b401be1f1a$10781af0$bf281bce@p166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Dec 3, 98 07:05:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 475 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/b1de2480/attachment.ksh From kurtkilg at geocities.com Thu Dec 3 19:24:54 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <000901be1f24$e88b9ca0$f9021a26@maxeskin> No, I'm a student. I can get in trouble for that kind of stuff :) Teacher: Why did you do that, Max? You can get into serious trouble for this! Me: It's just a harmless joke...look! (I demonstrate) Teacher: You know what, Max? Go home! (says jeez and rubs his eyes in the background) >Looks like you like to play tricks on users as well. Dan > From wpe101 at banet.net Thu Dec 3 20:10:23 1998 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT|Re: Off topic posts (was Re: SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP) References: Message-ID: <3667448F.939F7EB6@banet.net> My vote (FWIW) is YES. Will Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > This is getting pretty far off-topic, I think. > > ---- BEGIN RANT ---- > > Perhaps if those responding to posts with something that is off-topic or > that changes the subject would change the subject header to: > > A) Reflect the actual content of the message, with a reference to the old > message and/or > > B) Indicate that the reply is off topic, with the letters OT as a prefix > > ...we could avoid the usual flame war and reposts of the FAQ. That way, > people who don't want to read anything but messages concerning the > collecting/restoration of classic computers can either hit the delete > button or automatically filter out any messages who's subject contains > "OT" and those who like a casual, conversational atmosphere can enjoy the > social dialog. I often enjoy the tangent threads here, but I can't stand > trying to follow a discussion when 10 messages with the same, exact > subject are about 10 completely different topics. This point has been > brought up before, and, IMHO, it's really just a common courtesty that > could save us all a lot of unnecessary grief. > > ---- END RANT ---- > :wq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 3 20:45:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <000901be1f24$e88b9ca0$f9021a26@maxeskin> from "Max Eskin" at Dec 3, 98 08:24:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/dc987d08/attachment.ksh From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Dec 3 21:18:59 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <03df01be1f34$fb001680$bf281bce@p166> >When I was a student, and when I was supervising students, practical >jokes were _expected_. There were rules, like no permanent damage (to >physical items or data (like computer files)). Nothing against the law. >Nothing _too_ dangerous. > >And yes, I've been caught by practical jokes. And yes, I laughed >afterwards - and then played a joke in return. Like tossing charged capacitors across the room to them? Or hooking a LARGE choke and a battery to a doorknob? I would never do such a thing.:) Dan From red at bears.org Thu Dec 3 22:54:15 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > You have _carpet_ in your workshop? Oh well.... I rent a room in a guy's house. I'm lucky to even have extra space to store my collection. He makes a big show of being magnanimous about it, too. (: ok r. From hansp at digiweb.com Fri Dec 4 00:46:43 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Any Zilog 8000 collectors out there. References: <3.0.1.16.19981203115428.49370d24@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36678553.4C43B724@digiweb.com> Joe wrote: > > I think I have a Zilog manual for the Z-8000 if someone needs it. > > Joe I am always happy to pay shipping costs of any processor manuals any one has surplus. Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Fri Dec 4 08:31:15 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: >> I've had to explain what 'out of paper' means on a printer. And then >> had to explain why a printer needs paper (!). > >Yeah, why does a printer need paper? Talk about an inefficient process: >plant seeds, nurture for 20 years, chop down tree, grind to a pulp, form If our office ever runs out of paper in an emergency we just have the office across town fax over a few blank sheets. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Dec 4 08:43:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Someone with an RL02 needed. Message-ID: <13409088559.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I started diggin thru the tapes I got from knox, maybe one of them was a backup of RSTS. Found one. The gotcha - It'll only extract to an RL02. So, anyone got a PDP-11 with an RL02 and a TS tape? I need someone to extract the tape for me, and shove it on a disk image like the ones E11 takes. I should be able to unscrew myself from there. ------- From bill at chipware.com Fri Dec 4 09:20:38 1998 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001be1f99$a5b34840$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > > > > No, I'm a student. I can get in trouble for that kind of stuff :) > > What? > > When I was a student, and when I was supervising students, practical > jokes were _expected_. There were rules, like no permanent damage (to > physical items or data (like computer files)). Nothing against the law. > Nothing _too_ dangerous. > > And yes, I've been caught by practical jokes. And yes, I laughed > afterwards - and then played a joke in return. When I was in high school (we had an HP 3000), if you could hack MPE and "steal" operator or supervisor privileges then, provided that you didn't do anything terrible with them, you could keep them. And you often got recruited for temp operator duty. Ah... those were the days... when every machine on the ARPANET had a guest account... From bill at chipware.com Fri Dec 4 09:20:38 1998 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <03df01be1f34$fb001680$bf281bce@p166> Message-ID: <000101be1f99$a5d80e50$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > Like tossing charged capacitors across the room to them? > Or hooking a LARGE choke and a battery to a doorknob? > I would never do such a thing.:) > Dan Cough... sputter... Now look what you did! I almost shot Coke out my nose! I once fell victim to the charged cap trick, but it's still funny. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 4 09:52:07 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Jokes was Re: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <023001be1fa0$49374560$bf281bce@p166> >> Like tossing charged capacitors across the room to them? >> Or hooking a LARGE choke and a battery to a doorknob? >> I would never do such a thing.:) >> Dan > >Cough... sputter... > >Now look what you did! I almost shot Coke out my nose! >I once fell victim to the charged cap trick, but it's >still funny. > Watching people's reaction with the choke is much more fun. They get shocked when they let go not when they are holding it. Dan From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 4 10:51:26 1998 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: RL01/02 and RK06/07 terminators Message-ID: <199812041651.LAA21731@quartz.netsync.net> Question: Are the terminators for the RL and RK drives the same? No part number on outside of any of the three terminators I have on hand. One was found on an RK07 another on an RL01. All three have a Cermet network with 40 leads connecting to each connector pin. The P/N on each Cermet network is 13-13242. Just trying to make sure as I'm trying to get an RK07 running w/11/34A an RL02 w/11/24 and neither disk is accessed by its processor. Yes, the cables are sorted out as to whether they're an RK or an RL type. Thanks for the info. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Fri Dec 4 11:23:11 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: References: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: >No, including information is never silly. Too true. >> That makes sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the >> carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely > >You have _carpet_ in your workshop? Oh well.... > >I remember someone commenting in Byte (I think) that computer shops went >downhill when they started carpeting them. After all, who'd walk across a >carpeted floor carring a MOS chip? Our computer room here is carpeted as well... Not a very good idea... I just take a walk across the room and touch something and I get a cute shock. Sometimes they're not so cute. I'm now getting them off the front of the screen of one of the PCs (It's a Sony). Nasos From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Dec 4 12:13:06 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Mac IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: <12D31BD1.2547FFDC@geocities.com> Message-ID: Greetings, I could use two and would be glad to pay shipping.... Shipping would be to Beaverton Oregon (97007). George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com KD7DCX On Fri, 4 Jan 1980, Eric wrote: > have a pile of mac IIci cache cards, if interested email. have no use > for them. > > -Eric > > > > > >2) Since I don't have a DayStar card, what else (if anything) can I > > > do with the adapter? Can I plug in a IIci cache card? > > > > From erd at infinet.com Fri Dec 4 12:05:08 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Call for final Elf99 design input In-Reply-To: <199811261744.RAA23342@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Nov 26, 98 06:44:22 pm Message-ID: <199812041805.NAA22785@user2.infinet.com> > The idea is to map a part of the EPROM permanently to $0000-$001F > as replacemet for the original prom, or to suply a 32x8 RAM (like the > 1824, since we want to use as much 'original' Harris stuff as possible Using as much Harris stuff as possible is not one of my design goals. Simplicity is. At the moment, the only Harris part may be the 1802 mostly due to cost. The Harris stuff is between $5 and $10 per chip. > Yep, but AFAIR I never taked about the starting address - my fault. > I assumed a varable starting adress. That was the gist of my questions. It appears that we were using terms that the other was not fully understanding. The term "memory space" that I used, refers to a region of memory that is designed to contain something, but may or may not be full. For example, a 4K PET has 32K of RAM address space, but 4K of RAM. It's trivial to add another 28K of RAM, not so trivial to add RAM outside of that 32K address space. A 68000 smart serial card I used to make had the 16Mb divided into 4 address spaces: RAM, I/O, shared memory (it was a DMA card on a PDP-11) and ROM. Even though no card ever had more than 2Mb of RAM (the oldest card had 32K of 2114!), all of the later cards had 4Mb of the memory map blocked out for RAM. It is easy to divide the memory space into 1/2 RAM and 1/2 ROM. It's harder to divide it into 3/4 RAM and 1/4 ROM. It's even harder to divide it into 3/4 RAM, 1/8 ROM and 1/8 memory-mapped I/O, and it's hardest of all to make the division user configurable. A 48K Elf might be cool, but none of the ancient software knows much more than about 4K, leaving plenty of the intended 32K left for new stuff. Besides, I want to stick with one RAM chip and one ROM chip, for simplicity. > Ahh ok. Hmm so if we want to use the 'switch-boot' a RAM based function > can never be used ? or do you only map the first 256 (or less) bytes of the > EPROM to $0000 ? No... the entire ROM maps at $0000 and $8000 until the first time that A15 gets set, then the flip-flip clears and RAM banks in at $0000 and ROM remains at $8000. This is easy to implement and fairly clean. No I/O address needs to be hung up as in the VIP design (62). > Adding two sockets wouldnt be a big thing I guess, but one could build > a system with only the 256 Bytes of storage :) Technolgically speaking, it's trivial. The issue is real estate. If I have to make the board bigger, the cost goes up. I'm thinking about designing and releasing a design for a piggyback board to plug into the 6116/62256 socket to adapt a pair of 1822/2101's. I wouldn't *make* that board, but anyone who wanted to use 256x4 RAMs should be able to make their own. > > The space taken up by two 40 pin chips is a bit much when I can implement > > two cheap ports (one in and one out) with octal latches. > > You're right. Now... OTOH, Allison Parent's mentioning of the COSMAC eval kit has pushed me back to considering dual 1852's. It's still the most expensive option, but software compatibility for any sort of existing software base is nothing to be lightly dismissed. > What about adding a latched solution for all parallel ports like mentioned > in one of the App notes (I think it was with one of the latches). If I understand what you are suggestion, Allison suggested that, too. You mean decoding additional secondary ports from a primary port, yes? The reasons not to do it are a) increased complexity of design and b) increased complexity of programming. I have not utterly dismissed it, but neither am I overwhelmingly convinced that it's necessary. > > > > o A 1854 UART > > > > Data transfer via Q is way more fun (Hi Alison :). > > Serious, this was inteded as a joke - Even with software controll > 2400 Bd should be no problem at all - and for the LCD, I would realy > like to use one of these ASCII input LCDs They cost more. I can get 4/8-bit PIO displays 16x1 for $3 each. I have an ASCII LCD - PIC-an-LCD from B.G. Micro. The board was $12, the PIC controller was $12. I like it a lot. It sits on my Linux Internet router. Sticking with an easy to implement LCD connector means that the user can hang a *cheap* display right off the Elf. > Anyway, if we use your 32K RAM plus 32K ROM design, I thougt > about adding a kind of CS unit to provide several CS signals for adding > various memory or memory maped areas. For example if we supply > 8 CS lines for 8 8K areas, one could bild a system like: > 2K EPROM at $8000 (needed to perform the 'boot') and > 256 Bytes RAM at $2000 and a memory maped > 1851 at $4000 ... or some other configurations. Ack! Too complicated. I'm after *simple* here. While your concept here is very powerful, > My view of the Elf99 is more fun and hobby than real applications. > Playing with unusual components and using 'real' 18xx stuff is > part of this flair. A 4xxx based I/O is just less 'sexy' than a 185x. It is and it isn't, depending on the nature of the playing. After all, you can't stick a logic probe inside a 185x chip. You *can* watch a 4308 latch the data and observe how a parallel port works, if you care to. Besides, the 1852 is nearly 10 times the cost of the 4308. > Its like with some of our vintage equipment - connecting a Terminal > to an Altair gives a diferent feeling than to any 12 MHz 64180 system, > even when running the same CP/M and the same Wordstar... Yes, but even a real RCA product, the VIP, used 4308 latches for PIO. > > I still have yet to hear why the 1855 Multiply/Divide Unit is worth > > the real estate. Sure, it's a neat chip, but unless it has a purpose, > > I can't see including it. > > Gee the purpose is to multiply and divide - what else :-) Well.. Duh. I meant, why go the trouble of a bank of hardware integer multiply units with no practical use in mind beforehand. For example, if I were building a PIC project board, I'd contemplate ways to attach a thermistor to play with computerized thermometer projects. I am at a loss to suggest to the user what they could do with a bank of 1855's to justify 1/6th of the space on the board. > If you just think about the real world usability of an Elf99, > we shold stop it and go for a 80188 design of an equal > level (I like the 8018x CPUs)- But the Intel architecture isn't sexy like the 1802. You can't build a ROMless 8018x system with 256 bytes of RAM. As complex as the Elf99 is turning out, I know it can be partially populated to produce a very good approximation of the original Quest design (leave off the address latch and all I/O except the Q LED). Someone wishing to build the whole design can stuff every crevice with parts and have an Elf beyond our wildest dreams of 1977. > And for both chips (MDU and RTC), I don't want them to > be esential - just optional. And I think they offer a lot > of possible usages (what about a Elf Basic using the MDU > for speed ?). Optional isn't the issue. The cost of the board space is. I've already planned on lots of optional stuff (PIO, UART, more than 256 bytes of RAM). I'm not opposed to optional things. I am just trying to give as much expansion as $99 will allow. If the board costs more, it loses its audience. > (BTW: Just look at the 'front panel' thread - a MDU would offer > a lot of new and excitieing lights :) Too complicated for a $99 design. > USD 2 for a 16x2 (or USD 7 for a 20x4) including controller ? If by controller you mean a Hitachi 48440 or similar chip that sits between the raw LCD and provides the user with a font and parallel (4 or 8 bit) interface, then yes. $2 to $9 is a typical range, depending on new or used or backlight or not. > Thats pretty cheap. If this is true, a 20x4 should be included > for shure. A LCD without controller is not usefull, since a permanent > scann to support output counters the basic static Design. I've got a 20x4 on my Linux box (as I said). I chose to spend $24 extra (I scrounged the power supply and box) to keep the programming from a UNIX machine simple. There is no such requirement on a toy board. > The apeal lies in having an Elf like computer, but with all the fancy > stuff to draw fun from programming and playing. Thats one main > reason why I suggestet the library and the library boot No argument about the library boot. I spent lots of time entering in games from the VIP manual (I still have the tape!) > So my idea of the Elf99 is an easy to use experimentation / training > kit with a lot of interesting features - NOT any kind of very usefull high > powered controller. Something to learn about a microcomputer for > children... So far we are in agreement. I don't expect anyone to buy this and build it into an Internet Coke machine or anything. > ..and the MDU is just a part of this idea In the abstract, I agree, but I still see no practical use for the MDU except as an expensive, flashy toy that would only appeal to a few people (less than 5%). I'm shooting for 80% or 90% audience acceptance for a feature. So far, that's 8 bits in, 8 bits out and some sort of serial port (plus the required switches, displays and Q). > In fact, if the design is a in this direction I plan to use two of them > for children in the age of 11 and 14. They would be a good audience. I got my hands on a Quest Elf when I was 11. It nand the PET profoundly affected my life and career path. -ethan From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 4 13:05:24 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: System/23??? Message-ID: <36683273.F696EF92@bigfoot.com> Ok here's one for all those of you familiar with the older IBM iron. I have just fallen into a unit that looks much like a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 (all in one in other words) that has two 8" floppies, a CRT, built on keyboard. It says it's a model 5322 and the face says it's a System/23 unit. This is before my time I'm sure (my time in messing with pooters). It has a 9 pin d-sub with a jumper loop on back and then further up the back it has another, but open, 9 pin female d-sub. Token ring maybe, or where a twinax adapter might go? Whatever info you have would be great, and if anyone has an interest in this heavy bugger let me know. I haven't even powered it up yet but it does have an original IBM floppy in it, not even sure if it's a boot disk or not. I have a weird feeling it's a wordprocessing terminal. It even has a keyboard overlay that sits above the keys. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 4 13:10:42 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static References: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: <366833B1.AE00A233@bigfoot.com> There are a few things you can do to minimize static. First you can either buy an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry. You can also run bare wire under the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least minimze the chance of buildup. Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if it's just a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a minimum as well. Russ Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > >No, including information is never silly. > > Too true. > > >> That makes sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the > >> carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely > > > >You have _carpet_ in your workshop? Oh well.... > > > >I remember someone commenting in Byte (I think) that computer shops went > >downhill when they started carpeting them. After all, who'd walk across a > >carpeted floor carring a MOS chip? > > Our computer room here is carpeted as well... Not a very good idea... > I just take a walk across the room and touch something and I get a cute > shock. Sometimes they're not so cute. I'm now getting them off the front of > the screen of one of the PCs (It's a Sony). > > Nasos From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 4 13:12:11 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem Message-ID: This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few blocks. When I touch the metal of the door upon getting out, I get a shock that hurts all the way up to the shoulder. The real problem, and what makes this on topic, is that I use this vehicle to pick-up/transport my classic beauties everywhere. I'm terrified that I'm going to pick up that once-in-a-lifetime S-100 rescue or something and kill the guts with one of these lightning bolts. What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. Does anyone know what could be causing this? Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 4 13:16:13 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <98120316020302.00293@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <366834FC.E6B5A7B@bigfoot.com> Max...I have a docking station, model 2815, that's supposed to fit the LTE/LTE lite series for sale. Check your info to be sure it would work for your machine and if it will and you might be interested, contact me. It is in great shape and will give you added network or other interface as well as a place for 2 drives or such. I had it sold on eBay but after 3 weeks of waiting for payment I relisted it (but can pull it if this might be useful to you). Russ rhblake@bigfoot.com Max Eskin wrote: > You should check out Compaq's site, it has some interesting stuff in .PDF > format (mostly). That said, if anyone has docs for a Compaq LTE/Lite-25, I'd be > glad to buy them too. > > On Thu, 03 Dec 1998, you wrote: > >I recently picked up a Compaq SLT/286 and would like to purchase any > >documentation for it. Anybody have docs for a reasonable price? > >Thanks, > >Richard Hall > > > > > > > >Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Dec 4 08:26:35 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <366833B1.AE00A233@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <199812041920.OAA17322@mail.cgocable.net> > > Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if it's just > a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a minimum as > well. > Russ Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of dust generated from that thing. Anything else with old fashioned technologies, fine. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Fri Dec 4 13:23:08 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? Nasos From yowza at yowza.com Fri Dec 4 13:44:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > Does anyone know what could be causing this? Your tires. You can cure this by dragging a ground strap. -- Doug From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Fri Dec 4 13:50:24 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On Topic: Carpets producing static and old HPs In-Reply-To: <366833B1.AE00A233@bigfoot.com> References: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: >There are a few things you can do to minimize static. First you can either buy >an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then >spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry. Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it specifically for this purpose? >You can also run bare wire under >the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other >building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least >minimze >the chance of buildup. Well, this room has a raised floor under which power and network cables run. The floor is wooden with the thin carpet on top. At various points you have these metal 'holes' where the sockets/plugs are located. In fact the covers are metallic and have carpet on them too and it was intereting when I noticed that they have a little grounding wire connecting them to the rest of the metallic frame. That's obviously for keeping static off that bit, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good for the rest of the carpet. I'm sorta used to it - you should see the shocks some of the people get when I go to help them. :)= >Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if >it's just >a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a >minimum as >well. That's another problem we have. We are facing Kengsington Gore (a big street in London (just on the south side of Kensington Gardens and Hyde Park)), so we get tons of pollution coming in. It's a nightmare getting that out of a computer I've opened for repairs (I had never seen anything like it before when I opened the 'ancient' Macs that were probably being opened for the first time). Same dust problem goes for the large amount of (mostly HP) hardware left in the far end of the room. Oh, get a load of this - all this hardware was under an electronics workbench (this room is great). I tested some of the old screens and was happy to find that some of them work. The HP stuff is what is left from the network they had here before they got all the Macs and the college-wide network. We're talking about a system that was given to them (sponsorship?) back in 1988 or something. I don't know how gloriously (or not) it went down, but nobody seems to care about it, it's been sitting here for years and they've been trying to chuck it out for years. I'd hate to see it go in the skip like that and I've stated my concern. And now that I'm the only one in charge of the computer room and I do have to get this stuff out of here eventually, I'd like them to have a nice home. This is the main reason I joined this list. I'm sorry I'm too lazy to type in a list right now of what we have. Besides being tired on a Friday evening, I'd give you the list after I decide what I want to/can keep. And there may be some interested people in this college. What is left will go to this list, I guess. It's obviously an advantage if you are in the London area or the UK, but whoever is interested and willing... >Russ Thanks for your info Russ. Bye all, Nasos From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 4 13:49:58 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981204134958.00ffe620@pc> At 11:12 AM 12/4/98 -0800, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: >This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it >generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few >blocks. I seem to remember reading about this - perhaps in the "Straight Dope". A quick www.dejanews.com search led me to a Toyota FAQ that confirmed what I remembered. Newer "low rolling resistance" tires don't contain as much carbon black as they once did, which makes them more of an insulator, which means as they turn they're picking up a charge relative to ground. Other articles I saw mentioned this was a problem with AM radio reception, causing sparks as the charge dissipated as you drove, and for toll booth operators you'd touch during a drive. Click and Clack wrote about it at Strangely, I also found an article about the magnetic fields generated by rolling tires: - John From Dean.Nelson at lmco.com Fri Dec 4 12:50:20 1998 From: Dean.Nelson at lmco.com (Dean A. Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: FORSALE(Bids): uVaxes,Monitors,Network,DG Aviions + FREE STUFF In-Reply-To: <000301be1e4f$83217450$2893f6c6@eng1> Message-ID: <000601be1fb6$f1e506a0$2893f6c6@eng1> Here are the current bids on my computer stuff: If you want to bid, do so by end of today (friday). No reasonable offer will be rejected. (Please be very specific with any bids or requests for free stuff) ----MICRO VAXES and DG Aviions----------- VaxStation 3100 M76, 32MB Ram (Model VS43A-CY) $75 Vax Server 3100, 16MB Ram (Model DJ-31ESA-A-A01) $75 MicroVax 3100-40, 16MB Ram ( Model 450ZM-B9-A01) $100 Data General Aviion Model AV 410 64mb (DG/UX) $60 Data General Aviion Model AV 410 64mb (Boots to HW) $30 -----MONITORS-------- DEC 19" - Model VR299-DA (Works) $50 DEC 19" - Model VR299-DA (Works) NO BIDS Data General 17" Trinitron GDM-1601 (works) NO BIDS -----Network Bridges---------- Vitalink VX350 4 port/V.35 Ethernet NO BIDS Vitalink TRANSlan 350 8 port/V.35 Ethernet NO BIDS -----KEYBOARDS--------- 2 DEC LK201 keyboards $5 each 6 DEC LK201 keyboards NO BIDS ------FREE STUFF (you just pay the shipping)--------------- Core Intl Hard Drive Model: AT72 (72MB) UP FOR GRABS 19" rack mount hard drive enclosures w/ps TAKEN Desktop hard drive chassis for 2 full height drives. UP FOR GRABS (maybe) 19" Modem rack with 8 modems (2400 baud) UP FOR GRABS ------------------- Contact: For any Questions during the day: Dean dot Nelson at LMCO dot COM To send a bid or questions: DeanNelson at AOL dot Com From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Fri Dec 4 13:53:13 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <199812041920.OAA17322@mail.cgocable.net> References: <366833B1.AE00A233@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: >> Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if >>it's just >> a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a >>minimum as >> well. >Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of dust generated >from that thing. Ultrasonic and humidifier? How does that work? What about those ionisers or the ones that also have air filters? Nasos From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 4 14:30:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: References: <199812041920.OAA17322@mail.cgocable.net> <366833B1.AE00A233@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981204143005.00cd3890@pc> At 07:53 PM 12/4/98 +0000, Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > >>Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of dust generated >>from that thing. > >Ultrasonic and humidifier? How does that work? Inexpensive ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break up water into small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc. As someone else on the list implied, any more old-fashioned humidifier (which may be even more inexpensive than the ultrasonics) that merely exposes water to blowing air isn't prone to this sort of dust generation. I used an ultrasonic humidifier for a *very short* time until I discovered this nasty side-effect as all my monitor screens became frosty white, and the plastic and metal cases of equipment became dusted in static-y patterns. - John From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Dec 4 14:44:23 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981204143005.00cd3890@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 04, 1998 02:30:05 PM Message-ID: <199812042044.NAA23258@calico.litterbox.com> > Inexpensive ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break up water into > small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your > water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets > evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will > collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc. So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't do this? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 4 14:55:51 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static References: <199812042044.NAA23258@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <36684C56.C4865056@bigfoot.com> Most manufacturers recommend distilled water anyway, to keep the deposits in the machine itself down as well. Jim Strickland wrote: > > Inexpensive ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break up water into > > small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your > > water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets > > evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will > > collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc. > > So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't > do this? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 14:57:36 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <366834FC.E6B5A7B@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <98120415581102.00312@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 04 Dec 1998, you wrote: >Max...I have a docking station, model 2815, that's supposed to fit the LTE/LTE lite >series for sale. Check your info to be sure it would work for your machine and if >it will and you might be interested, contact me. It is in great shape and will give >you added network or other interface as well as a place for 2 drives or such. I had >it sold on eBay but after 3 weeks of waiting for payment I relisted it (but can >pull it if this might be useful to you). > >Russ >rhblake@bigfoot.com Oh, yes, yes, yes! How much? Russ: 200$ From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 15:00:34 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static References: <199812042044.NAA23258@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <98120416044304.00312@localhost.localdomain> Many humdifiers have built-in filters, but I don't know how well they work. We just got one of them Brita water filters, which is basically overpriced charcoal, but makes the tap water look a lot cleaner. In general, I see no reason not to use a conventional humidifier anyway (in the winter, we put pans of water on the radiators). ObClassiccmp: would it be possible to convert a PC motherboard into a humidifier using the piezoelectric buzzer? >So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't >do this? >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 4 15:11:06 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it > generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few > blocks. When I touch the metal of the door upon getting out, I get a > shock that hurts all the way up to the shoulder. The real problem, and > what makes this on topic, is that I use this vehicle to pick-up/transport > my classic beauties everywhere. I'm terrified that I'm going to pick up > that once-in-a-lifetime S-100 rescue or something and kill the guts with > one of these lightning bolts. What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. Does anyone > know what could be causing this? > > > > Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." > My guess would be the upholstery and the seat of your pants. It is obvious that you and the vehicle are not at the same potential! - don From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 4 15:19:19 1998 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199812042119.QAA16839@quartz.netsync.net> At 11:12 12/04/98 -0800, Aaron C. Finney wrote: >This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it >generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few -- snip -- >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. Does anyone >know what could be causing this? Yes. It's not the car but it's the tires. I've had the same problems with a couple of Toyota Camrys I've leased over the past years. Extreme and rather painful shocks are generated especially in this part of the country when it is very cold and low humidity. Finally getting tired of the fireworks, I asked a few tire dealers and auto dealers about this and they told me that modern tires nowadays have somewhat less carbon black, which is conductive, in their rubber compounds. Something about reduced wear, etc. Static charges built up from the motion of the tires over the road don't drain off as fast. Hence, when you step out of the car you get nailed. This is because the resistivity of the tire rubber is higher because of less carbon black content. Carbon black, incidentally started to be put into tire rubber back around 1910-1912, IIRC, when it was found that it drastically reduced the damage to the natural rubber caused by the sun's UV rays. Tires up until then were as white as the original rubber tree sap was when harvested and did not last very long. You can see examples of reproduction white tires on correctly-restored antique cars from around the early teens and earlier at an antique car show or auto museum. I found a solution by holding my fingers on the unpainted door jamb hardware as I turn and step out of the car (if I'm wearing normal rubber-soled shoes). This keeps my body and the car at equal potentials as the static continues to drain off through the less resistive tires. Minimal or no zaps anymore. I worry a bit about those shocks at the gasoline station if somebody is fueling their car and there is a significant concentration of fuel vapors and no wind about. It takes at least a 14:1 air to vapor ratio for ignition to occur which is not too likely at the gas bar. I have a pair of ESD-type work shoes which I wore at work and still wear around the house. There is a high amount of carbon in the heels and soles which allows them to be used as an anti-static device for electronics workers. I never get nailed in the house on a carpet nor from my car whenever I wear them. They're great! Made by Titan Safety Shoe Company. Needed them in the cleanroom at work and when repairing electronic controls around the plant or working up in the R&D lab. Additionally, I recall that I had very little problem when I wore leather-soled shoes back in the days when I had them. Seems the leather was a bit conductive especially when damp. Incidentally, do some of you remember the automobile accessory fad from back in the 70's which was an anti-static strap that hung from the bottom of the car? If it was conductive it would serve a good purpose for you today Aaron. You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) Happy zapping! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Dec 4 16:07:18 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: Message-ID: <36685D14.D89B6B25@bigfoot.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > > This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it > > generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few > > blocks. When I touch the metal of the door upon getting out, I get a > > shock that hurts all the way up to the shoulder. The real problem, and > > what makes this on topic, is that I use this vehicle to pick-up/transport > > my classic beauties everywhere. I'm terrified that I'm going to pick up > > that once-in-a-lifetime S-100 rescue or something and kill the guts with > > one of these lightning bolts. What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. Does anyone > > know what could be causing this? > > > > > > > > Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." > > > > My guess would be the upholstery and the seat of your pants. It is > obvious that you and the vehicle are not at the same potential! > > - don He needs to quit wearing his wife's underwear (just kidding). The wonderful world of nylon upholstery has created such a wonderful place for static in a totally isolated vehicle. This is why fuel trucks have a conductive strap on the road, or even a piece of chain. This might not be a good idea on the minivan but a good brand of static spray on the seats and carpets will greatly diminish the problem. Another may is to be sure to keep the equipment away from the driver and make sure you touch (ouch) a bare metal part of the van before touching the equipment. A length of stainless braid wire from the body to the sliding door can also reduce the possibilty when you slide the side door. I wonder if leaving the wire braid exposed on your radial tires would work? Again, just kidding.... From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Dec 4 11:24:23 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <98120416044304.00312@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <199812042218.RAA27198@mail.cgocable.net> Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if that program can be downloadable, then that's great! This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 4 15:34:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <199812042044.NAA23258@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981204143005.00cd3890@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981204153410.00eaa100@pc> At 01:44 PM 12/4/98 -0700, Jim Strickland wrote: >So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't >do this? Yes, although it's faster to turn a dollar bill into vapor using a match. - John From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 4 16:28:21 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <98120416044304.00312@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Many humdifiers have built-in filters, but I don't know how well they work. We > just got one of them Brita water filters, which is basically overpriced > charcoal, but makes the tap water look a lot cleaner. In general, I see no > reason not to use a conventional humidifier anyway (in the winter, we put pans > of water on the radiators). > ObClassiccmp: would it be possible to convert a PC motherboard into a > humidifier using the piezoelectric buzzer? I bought three humidifiers last winter at the corner drug store for $15 each. They consist of a large tank and a fan that blows over a special sponge. I keep them clean with bleach and use distilled water with them and haven't had any problems with buildup at all. Each one works well for a 15'x15' room; Southern California is dry enough *without* the heaters going at night - a static nightmare without humidifiers. To move this on-topic (a little), does anyone know the *ideal* relative humidity for computer/electonic equipment? How about for magnetic media, specifically these 8" disks and 9track tapes that are already approaching their 20th birthdays? Aaron From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Dec 4 16:33:11 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <199812042218.RAA27198@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote: > Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if that program can > be downloadable, then that's great! > > This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one. Microsoft Excel I believe. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Dec 4 11:41:43 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: OT: Carpets producing static In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981204153410.00eaa100@pc> References: <199812042044.NAA23258@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <199812042235.RAA09102@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:34:10 -0600 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: John Foust > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: OT: Carpets producing static > At 01:44 PM 12/4/98 -0700, Jim Strickland wrote: > >So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't > >do this? > > Yes, although it's faster to turn a dollar bill into vapor using a match. > > - John Correct. Cheaper and bit savings on the bills becuse of no electronics to spin the motor to blow air and cool the electronics and vibrate the disc in that ultrasonic vapourizer. That disc degrades with use which is poor in my experience with one unit. An pair of stainless flat bars in a special cartidge both dunked in tapwater, boiling a head of steam by the conduction of resistance current making heat. The *STEAM* sprewed forth by any methods is pure distilled water and that is exactly how distillers gets their distilled water. This process is by condesing the steam back to liquid by cooled surface and allowed to drip into tank then packaged, shipped. > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 4 17:36:47 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <000001be1f99$a5b34840$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> (bill@chipware.com) References: <000001be1f99$a5b34840$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Message-ID: <19981204233647.5737.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > When I was in high school (we had an HP 3000), if you could hack MPE > and "steal" operator or supervisor privileges then, provided that you > didn't do anything terrible with them, you could keep them. And you The community college I attended made sure that all the MPE manuals were locked up, and had arranged for the local HP office to screen requests for manuals and try really hard to avoid selling them to students. Lord knows you wouldn't want students to actually learn how to use the system. I suppose this was some sort of misguided attempt at security through obscurity. We figured out how to do a lot of things we weren't supposed to, but we certainly weren't able to learn enough about MPE for it to be a marketable skill :-( And to think that I actually paid real money for the priviledge of being prevented from learning about the computer :-( :-( Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 13:22:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <03df01be1f34$fb001680$bf281bce@p166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Dec 3, 98 10:18:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/672452bb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 15:05:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: RL01/02 and RK06/07 terminators In-Reply-To: <199812041651.LAA21731@quartz.netsync.net> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 4, 98 11:51:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 800 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/bec8933f/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 4 17:43:34 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: <199812042119.QAA16839@quartz.netsync.net> (message from Christian Fandt on Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:19:19 -0500) References: <199812042119.QAA16839@quartz.netsync.net> Message-ID: <19981204234334.5783.qmail@brouhaha.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain > dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) I only noticed one of these for the first time about a month ago. I was wondering why they were dragging a chain; it was throwing lots of sparks. Didn't seem like a great idea to me, but what do I know? Eric From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 18:04:07 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:54 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video References: <19981204233647.5737.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <98120419091802.01244@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 04 Dec 1998, you wrote: >The community college I attended made sure that all the MPE manuals were >locked up, and had arranged for the local HP office to screen requests for >manuals and try really hard to avoid selling them to students. Lord knows >you wouldn't want students to actually learn how to use the system. > >I suppose this was some sort of misguided attempt at security through >obscurity. We figured out how to do a lot of things we weren't supposed >to, but we certainly weren't able to learn enough about MPE for it to >be a marketable skill :-( > >And to think that I actually paid real money for the priviledge of being >prevented from learning about the computer :-( :-( My sentiment exactly, though I'm getting this wonderful service for free :) Here at school two days ago, I was trying to fix a Windows 95 "security breach" (kind of like trying to sew an interdimensional wormhole together); I was using the MS-DOS prompt and using ping and tracert to find out why the computer wouldn't log on to the network properly. My teacher says, "You do of course realize, Max, that there are three pairs of curious eyes watching what you're doing? I don't want you showing them the NT Server Prompt". I gently explained what it really was but he objected just the same. Wouldn't want to distract the kids from learning how to use powerpoint. Today, he told them that a website should work like a powerpoint presentation. I stood there with my mouth wide open. How is somebody supposed to learn in this atmosphere? I'll bet when my school used the IBM System/34 students learned quite a bit more... > >Eric From red at bears.org Fri Dec 4 18:13:36 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it > generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few > [...] > Does anyone know what could be causing this? Silicon based rubber in the tires. New vehicles have less carbon in the rubber and thus the tires are more insulative. This was done in the interest of reducing rolling friction and increasing fuel economy. What you should do is get one of those automotive grounding straps from an auto supply store, and this should do the trick. you've probably seen cars around that have that black thing hanging from the rear bumper.. that's what it is. I learned this on Car Talk, on NPR. Those two guys are a riot. ok r. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 4 18:42:21 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <010501be1fe8$c7d48520$bf281bce@p166> >Oh no... My jokes were a little more subtle... I still laugh thinking about the people that tried to figure out how they were getting shocked when they let go of the doornob not when they initially touched it. It was especially good to watch the person that just got shocked, when some new person grabs the doornob and just holds it while the first tries to warn them. >The -ve resistance battery was one such (an empty battery casing >containing a couple on 9V batteries and a little circuit so the voltage >would rise on load). Drives people mad... I like that idea.:) look out kids. > >The VGA-colour-swapper is another. This is a simple adapter with a DE15 >plug on one side and a DE15 socket on the other. All the pins are >straight through, apart from 1,2,3 which are wired 1->2, 2->3, 3->1. The >result is that it swaps the colours round. It's actually a useful piece >of test gear to discover quickly if a missing colour is due to the >monitor or video card. But it's the sort of thing to plug into a luser's >computer after he's spent the morning getting the colours 'right'... > Like swapping red and blue on VAXstations etc. Dan From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 19:22:03 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <000c01be1fed$ac17be60$fe021a26@maxeskin> How _does_ that work? >I still laugh thinking about the people that tried to figure out how they >were getting shocked when they let go of the doornob not when they >initially touched it. >Dan > From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 19:31:55 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On Topic: Carpets producing static and old HPs References: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: <36688D0B.C7BC3049@cnct.com> Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > >There are a few things you can do to minimize static. First you can either buy > >an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then > >spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry. > > Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it > specifically for this purpose? It's a "fabric softener". It leaves a chemical residue after the rinse that tends to reduce static electricity formation after the clothing is dried. As anyone who has dried clothing of dissimilar fabrics is familiar with the socks sticking to the shirts. > > >You can also run bare wire under > >the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other > >building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least > >minimze > >the chance of buildup. > > Well, this room has a raised floor under which power and network cables > run. The floor is wooden with the thin carpet on top. At various points you > have these metal 'holes' where the sockets/plugs are located. In fact the > covers are metallic and have carpet on them too and it was intereting when > I noticed that they have a little grounding wire connecting them to the > rest of the metallic frame. That's obviously for keeping static off that > bit, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good for the rest of the carpet. There is carpeting manufactured that contains conductive threads. It was standard at all of the Radio Shack Computer Centers in the States, probably the regular Radio Shack stores as well. I was more likely to generate a spark walking across the linoleum in the repair shop than in the carpeted showroom. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From max82 at surfree.com Fri Dec 4 19:28:42 1998 From: max82 at surfree.com (Natalia Pritikina) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <000301be1fee$99f80b80$fe021a26@maxeskin> Well, unfortunately, I replied to Russ's offer for a laptop dock onto the list. Not only that, I included a joke that I was glad that it's available but Russ would overprice it. If this went directly to Russ he would have gotten it, but on the list it makes it seem like he actually overpriced it. Sorry. From max82 at surfree.com Fri Dec 4 19:29:51 1998 From: max82 at surfree.com (Natalia Pritikina) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <000501be1fee$c2a93860$fe021a26@maxeskin> And now I messed up again by sending my apology from the wrong email account :( From rexstout at uswest.net Fri Dec 4 19:32:51 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Cipher 9-tracks Message-ID: Got two of them. One of them is an IBM 4968, not terribly difficult to figure out. But the other one has me stumped. Model number 0920940-98-125OU, I'm not sure if that means it's a 920 or a 940... Part number 155000-103, Option B. Found some spare parts lists at www.4cipher.com that seem to match, but they don't have much info. And I thought I would come here to the list before bothering their sales department(only email address I could find), as they rarely know much of anything that isn't in production... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | -------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Fri Dec 4 19:35:04 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <000501be1fee$c2a93860$fe021a26@maxeskin> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Natalia Pritikina wrote: > And now I messed up again by sending my apology from the wrong email account > :( OK, Max, so now we know you can't tell a joke and that you're really a woman. Is there anything you'd like to tell us? -- Doug From manney at lrbcg.com Fri Dec 4 19:26:48 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: What if Dr. Seuss wrote computer manuals? Message-ID: <01be1fee$5433a1e0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Oh, on second though -- not offtopic. Dr. Seuss is >10 yrs old. >What if Dr. Seuss Wrote a Computer Manual??? > >1) If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port, and the bus is >interrupted as a very last resort, and the address of the memory makes >your floppy disk abort, then the socket packet pocket has an error to >report. > >2) If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash, and the >double-click icon puts your window in the trash, and your data is >corrupted cause the index doesn't hash, then your situation's hopeless >and your system's gonna crash! > >3) If the label on the cable on the table at your house, says the >network is connected to the button on your mouse, but your packets >want to tunnel on another protocol, that's repeatedly rejected by the >printer down the hall, and your screen is all distorted by the side >effects of gauss, so your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse, >then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang, cause as sure as >I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang! > >4) When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk, and the >microcode instructions cause unnecessary risk, then you have to flash >your memory and you'll want to RAM your ROM. Quickly turn off the >computer and be sure to tell your Mom. From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 19:43:47 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Off topic -- playing with electrons (was Re: DG Aviion video) References: <000101be1f99$a5d80e50$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Message-ID: <36688FD3.BBC252FD@cnct.com> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Like tossing charged capacitors across the room to them? > > Or hooking a LARGE choke and a battery to a doorknob? > > I would never do such a thing.:) > > Dan > > Cough... sputter... > > Now look what you did! I almost shot Coke out my nose! > I once fell victim to the charged cap trick, but it's > still funny. When I was in high school, the chess club met in the physics lab during the second period of the day, as most of us were in the first period physics class. The physics teacher knew well not to be the first to the door for third period class. A Van de Graff generator and a half-gallon Leyden jar that had had an hour to charge was likely as not to be somewhere around. (Honest, there were no serious injuries). It was in the USAF electronics tech school where we used to play catch with capacitors. And worse. Caps weren't known as "rectum-fires" for nothing. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 19:47:48 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <002901be1ff1$46ea6b60$1e021a26@maxeskin> Yes! I admit it! I use Outlook Express! That's why I messed up _two_ times! >woman. Is there anything you'd like to tell us? > >-- Doug > From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 19:43:25 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <002401be1ff1$44eb4000$1e021a26@maxeskin> And now I messed up again by sending my apology from the wrong email account :( From kurtkilg at geocities.com Fri Dec 4 19:49:25 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 Message-ID: <003401be1ff1$7fa742c0$1e021a26@maxeskin> Yes! I admit it! I use Outlook Express which is why I messed up so many times! If only I used PINE *sob*sob* I'm ruined!!! >OK, Max, so now we know you can't tell a joke and that you're really >a woman. Is there anything you'd like to tell us? > >-- Doug > From wpe101 at banet.net Fri Dec 4 19:50:13 1998 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: Message-ID: <36689155.6DB31588@banet.net> Yeah, try the J. C. Whitney catalog (Chicago Il, US. I believe), if your local auto parts supply store doesn't have these "static ground straps". My wife used to have two of them on her car, as the static would make her clothes "cling".. Plus they're a lot quieter than dragging a chain, although less attention attracting. "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > > This is giving me fits. There's something strange with my minivan, that it > > generates a *ton* of static electricity whenever I drive even a few > > [...] > > Does anyone know what could be causing this? > > Silicon based rubber in the tires. New vehicles have less carbon in the > rubber and thus the tires are more insulative. This was done in the > interest of reducing rolling friction and increasing fuel economy. What > you should do is get one of those automotive grounding straps from an auto > supply store, and this should do the trick. you've probably seen cars > around that have that black thing hanging from the rear bumper.. that's > what it is. > > I learned this on Car Talk, on NPR. Those two guys are a riot. I agree! Heard on WBUR 91.9, Boston.. Their web site is a subset of www.cars.com... They have several different forums on the site! Will > > ok > r. From yowza at yowza.com Fri Dec 4 19:58:53 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: <36689155.6DB31588@banet.net> Message-ID: I haven't seen one of these in a *long* time. They were rare even back when the PC was king. Somebody closer to VA should go for it: << AJ VA USA - Friday, December 04, 1998 at 20:02:35 I have a IBM Personal Computer Expansion Unit (5161) that has a working power supply & a reciver card, I do NOT have any cabels for this unit. 7 slots are available 4 slots are missing covers. The unit is USED, but working. I Don't have the room to keep it around, so I need to get rid of it. First to make a good offer + Shipping gets it. I come across ORIGINAL IBM PC's, XT's, & AT's plus other "old" systems regularly (Most under $5.xx), If you want me to keep an eye out for the system(s) or part(s) you want/need drop me a note. AJ >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 18:03:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <199812042218.RAA27198@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Dec 4, 98 05:24:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/2335a12e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 18:13:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Dec 4, 98 11:12:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/8a0719ec/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 20:15:38 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT -- luck charms (was Re: DG Aviion video) References: Message-ID: <3668974A.D5CD9EBF@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Why can't I just leave the printer by the window and water it once in a > > while? > > You can if it's a VT5x with a copier option (like my VT55). But you still > have to give it paper. > > Some spammer (or at least I assume it's a spammer) has appeared on afc > offering 'computer holy water' as a so-called joke. What's the betting > that I get a pile of computers/monitors with water damage appearing on my > bench soon? Holy water never did a thing for any of my equipment that seemed beneficial. A string of garlic bulbs draped across the top of the monitor does much better. That and talking to it in words of no more and no less than four letters. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 20:28:35 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: Message-ID: <36689A53.546D8EDC@cnct.com> Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little effect. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 4 20:08:26 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video Message-ID: <013e01be1ff6$17b86950$bf281bce@p166> The high voltage spike created when the magnetic field colaspes. AKA Reverse EMF pulse. You need a very large coil or the secondary of a 30kv+ transformer. >How _does_ that work? >>I still laugh thinking about the people that tried to figure out how they >>were getting shocked when they let go of the doornob not when they >>initially touched it. >>Dan >> > From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 4 20:16:42 1998 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Off topic -- playing with electrons (was Re: DG Aviion video) Message-ID: <013f01be1ff6$18b16f50$bf281bce@p166> >It was in the USAF electronics tech school where we used to play >catch with capacitors. And worse. Caps weren't known as >"rectum-fires" for nothing. Another words you fished the leads up through the holes in the lab stools as well? Dan From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 20:50:23 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: What if Dr. Seuss wrote computer manuals? References: <01be1fee$5433a1e0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: <36689F6F.E3EA103B@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > > Oh, on second though -- not offtopic. Dr. Seuss is +AD4-10 yrs old. +ADw-g+AD4- > > +AD4-What if Dr. Seuss Wrote a Computer Manual??? Actually, that poem scans to Gilbert & Sullivan, rather than to Dr. Seuss. Specifically "Modern Major General". The same tune as Tom Lehrer's "The Elements". Or the (ancient) filk song "I've Built a Better Model Than the One at Data General". -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 4 20:45:41 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > What else are you touching at the time. In particular are your feet in > the van or on the ground. On the ground. The inside panel of the door is all plastic, and it's not until I touch the side of the door to close it that I get shocked. > If your feet are on the ground, then the most likely thing is that the > vehicle is charging up, due to friction in the tyres. You used to be able > to get grounding straps that you dangle from the underside as a quack > cure for care sickness. But they actually do solve this problem > > If you're still in the vehicle, then most likely you're charging up due > to friction between you and the seat. Well, I can't help but dance when I'm wearing silk bikinis and listening to the Spice Girls... Seriously though, I never get a shock while still inside, so I'm assuming it's the tires/dry climate combination. I dug my JC Whitney catalog out of the recycle bin and will order a couple of those ugly-ass straps tomorrow... Thanks for all the help, everyone! Aaron From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 20:54:17 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Off topic -- playing with electrons (was Re: DG Aviion video) References: <013f01be1ff6$18b16f50$bf281bce@p166> Message-ID: <3668A059.2E46614C@cnct.com> Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > > >It was in the USAF electronics tech school where we used to play > >catch with capacitors. And worse. Caps weren't known as > >"rectum-fires" for nothing. > Another words you fished the leads up through the holes in the lab stools as > well? Those chairs had been in service in those electronics classrooms for decades. No need to drill holes. Hell, I think some of them were plated through. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 4 20:49:35 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: Fabric Softeners (was On topic: Serious static problem) In-Reply-To: <36689A53.546D8EDC@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? > > Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a > dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as > to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little > effect. They do the same thing as diluted Downey from a spray bottle. When I'm carrying static-sensitive things, I take a couple sheets out and rub down the carpet, seats, and plastic panels with them. Actually works fairly well (and I read somewhere that they repel mosquitos too). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 20:39:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <98120419091802.01244@localhost.localdomain> from "Max Eskin" at Dec 4, 98 07:04:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/dbdce886/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 20:28:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: DG Aviion video In-Reply-To: <010501be1fe8$c7d48520$bf281bce@p166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Dec 4, 98 07:42:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1986 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/84bdec2b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 20:30:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 4, 98 07:58:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 426 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/43a9f4c4/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 21:08:57 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: Fabric Softeners (was On topic: Serious static problem) References: Message-ID: <3668A3C9.1445EF9@cnct.com> Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > > > > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > > > > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? > > > > Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a > > dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as > > to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little > > effect. > > They do the same thing as diluted Downey from a spray bottle. When I'm > carrying static-sensitive things, I take a couple sheets out and rub down > the carpet, seats, and plastic panels with them. Actually works fairly > well (and I read somewhere that they repel mosquitos too). Downey solution is good enough for me -- those damned dryer sheets cost too much and there's no guage as to when the chemical runs out. To repel mosquitos, I prefer cigars. Since they do double duty and repel liberals as well. (Actually, they repel liberals much better than they repel mosquitos, since the liberals shy away from the rumor and the mosquitos insist on checking out the actual aroma before they avoid the site, and that's experience, not reading). -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 4 21:02:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT -- luck charms (was Re: DG Aviion video) In-Reply-To: <3668974A.D5CD9EBF@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Dec 4, 98 09:15:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 452 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/b02ab39e/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 4 21:14:59 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT -- luck charms (was Re: DG Aviion video) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 5, 98 03:02:17 am Message-ID: <199812050314.TAA27046@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/26c58f4c/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Fri Dec 4 21:25:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: What if Dr. Seuss wrote computer manuals? In-Reply-To: <01be1fee$5433a1e0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, PG Manney wrote: > If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port, and the bus is Does anybody know when this first appeared? I've seen it several times over the years (so that makes it a Classic Self-Propagating Message, I guess). The earliest online instance I found was from 3.5 years ago in DejaNews, but I think that just coincides with the start of DejaNews. -- Doug From stanp at storm.ca Sat Dec 5 21:31:15 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? References: Message-ID: <3669FA82.F41CDEC8@storm.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if that program can > > be downloadable, then that's great! > > > > This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one. > > I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using friends for knowing this one... > > .xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet > itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also > .xlm for the macro files > > -tony I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word processor, spreadsheet, etc.) that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86, and possibly a few others. I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed..... And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from..... Stan From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 4 21:52:12 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <3669FA82.F41CDEC8@storm.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word processor, spreadsheet, etc.) > that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86, > and possibly a few others. > I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed..... > > And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from..... http://www.stardivision.com Free for personal, non-commercial use. (hanging on-topic by a thread by virtue of being able to access Classic data formats) From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 21:58:53 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? References: <3669FA82.F41CDEC8@storm.ca> Message-ID: <3668AF7D.258EF998@cnct.com> Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word processor, spreadsheet, etc.) > that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86, > and possibly a few others. > I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed..... > > And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from..... StarOffice is a commercial product, though Caldera provides a demo copy with their Linux distribution, and the demo can be downloaded from Caldera and other sites. It doesn't seem to read the latest Excel and Word formats, Microsoft keeps "upgrading" the file format with each release (not that I see any features added) but of course keeping the same extension on the filenames. When I have to use their stuff on the job, I try to remember to save files in older formats, preferably .SLK and .TXT, since I can read those on my classic systems, MultiPlan actually being a _good_ Microsoft product, ranking with Extended Color BASIC. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 4 22:29:18 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <3669FA82.F41CDEC8@storm.ca> References: Message-ID: >I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word processor, spreadsheet, >etc.) >that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, >solaris-x86, >and possibly a few others. >I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed..... > >And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from..... A friend at work was testing it out, it's very impressive, he was able to open all the Excel documents he tried out. The only problems we noticed with 5.0 was that it's kind of sluggish on a PPro 150 w/64Mb, and any child windows are forced to stay inside the main window. I'm getting ready to give it a try on my home system. Version 5.0 is free for personal use, and is close enough to Microsoft Office to be frightening. It has the added advantage of being the most professional feeling one out there (I've used Applix before and didn't like it). Also Corel is supposed to be releaseing it's Office Suite, which includes WordPerfect 8.0 on Linux. I believe it will also be free for personal use. Of course I would assume that the personal use versions aren't as functional as the commercial ones. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Dec 4 22:47:25 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <68fa99d1.3668badd@aol.com> i have a few of these extender and reciever cards if anyone wants to strike a deal with me. david In a message dated 98-12-04 22:00:13 EST, you write: > They're also not that useful unless you also can get the 'extender' card > that goes in the PC or XT motherboard. The cable can be made (but it's > nice to find a real one), but the card is quite complex. > From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 4 23:02:05 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: <36689A53.546D8EDC@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? > > Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a > dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as > to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little > effect. Unless, of course, he were to tumble it end over end... - don > -- > Ward Griffiths > > WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, > and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 4 23:10:20 1998 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: SCO Unix anyone? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981204211020.00970750@mail.bluefeathertech.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 755 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981204/7aa9a83b/attachment.bin From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 4 23:34:53 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: What if Dr. Seuss wrote computer manuals? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, PG Manney wrote: > > > If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port, and the bus is > > Does anybody know when this first appeared? I've seen it several times > over the years (so that makes it a Classic Self-Propagating Message, I > guess). > > The earliest online instance I found was from 3.5 years ago in DejaNews, > but I think that just coincides with the start of DejaNews. > > -- Doug Rather reminds me of Phil Harris singing "That's what I like about the South"! And that is a bit more than 10 years old :) - don From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Fri Dec 4 22:27:07 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <002e01be2007$84e347a0$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> And I have a spare cable if anyone is desparate. >i have a few of these extender and reciever cards if anyone wants to strike a >deal with me. > From gram at cnct.com Fri Dec 4 23:56:49 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: Message-ID: <3668CB21.5F6FC6D5@cnct.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > Athanasios Kotsenos wrote: > > > > > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > > > > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? > > > > Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a > > dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as > > to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little > > effect. > > Unless, of course, he were to tumble it end over end... Been there, done that. Static electricity was not high on my list of concerns at the time. Rather glad I wasn't sharing the car with an S-100 system, now that I think on it. Though shortly before I'd been turned down for a loan to get $12,000 worth of Cromemco gear and assorted peripherals (early 1979). -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Dec 4 19:41:37 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: References: <199812042218.RAA27198@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Dec 4, 98 05:24:23 pm Message-ID: <199812050635.BAA09459@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:03:10 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? > I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using friends for knowing this one... > > .xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet > itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also > .xlm for the macro files You're forgiven... :) I figured out that I could search juse *.xls and it clued me in and thought if I could try the M$ site to see if I could d/l the freeware excel reader and yes it is! Thanks all. > > -tony > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 00:44:04 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: <199812042119.QAA16839@quartz.netsync.net> <19981204234334.5783.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3668D633.59F5655E@bigfoot.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Christian Fandt wrote: > > You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain > > dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) > > I only noticed one of these for the first time about a month ago. I > was wondering why they were dragging a chain; it was throwing lots of > sparks. Didn't seem like a great idea to me, but what do I know? It's not since there shouldn't be sparks as the chain or strap is supposed to be non-ferrous, ie brass or copper. Sure it wears out but no sparks. Just a good ground to earth to drain the buildup from the frame. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 00:47:35 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <000301be1fee$99f80b80$fe021a26@maxeskin> Message-ID: <3668D706.8F2B5ECB@bigfoot.com> Oh Natasha dear :-) I got the joke after a few seconds and figured it went the wrong place. I need what was bid on the unit at last auction, $25 plus shipping. Drop me a direct email and we'll discuss it. Kids nowadays, sheesh ;-) Natalia Pritikina wrote: > Well, unfortunately, I replied to Russ's offer for a laptop dock onto the > list. Not only that, I included a joke that I was glad that it's available > but Russ would overprice it. If this went directly to Russ he would have > gotten it, but on the list it makes it seem like he actually overpriced it. > Sorry. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 00:59:24 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: OT: Fabric Softeners (was On topic: Serious static problem) References: <3668A3C9.1445EF9@cnct.com> Message-ID: <3668D9CB.4815CC5@bigfoot.com> Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > > >What I do now is keep a wrist-strap and a > > > > >box of Bounce dryer sheets (don't laugh) in my jockey box. > > > > > > > > Sorry, but what do the Bounce sheets do? > > > > > > Probably nothing useful. They serve the purpose when inserted in a > > > dryer the Downey does in the washer, chemically treating fabric so as > > > to reduce static electricity. In a vehical, there would be little > > > effect. > > > > They do the same thing as diluted Downey from a spray bottle. When I'm > > carrying static-sensitive things, I take a couple sheets out and rub down > > the carpet, seats, and plastic panels with them. Actually works fairly > > well (and I read somewhere that they repel mosquitos too). > > Downey solution is good enough for me -- those damned dryer sheets > cost too much and there's no guage as to when the chemical runs out. There is another point to the Bounce (and similar brands) sheets in the car/truck. Leave them in your vehicle in the hot summer with the windows rolled up sometime and see how your eyes, nose and throat feel in a little bit. The prefume in them is terrible when heated. They do a nice job though by just rubbing a sheet lightly over the velour seats say every month or so. There are commercial products made by reputable manufacturers such as 3M, but at the present time I don't have access to the catalogs of places that carry these items. I know I did buy a good antistat spray from MCM some time back but I'm not sure if it wa safe for fabric. I did use it on the carpet alright though. > To repel mosquitos, I prefer cigars. Since they do double duty and > repel liberals as well. (Actually, they repel liberals much better > than they repel mosquitos, since the liberals shy away from the > rumor and the mosquitos insist on checking out the actual aroma > before they avoid the site, and that's experience, not reading). As will a good pipe filled with black cavendish. Cigarettes here went up an average $4.50 carton so I'm back to the pipe since there was no effect on loose tobacco and I'm not really into rolling my own. Mosquitos are best repelled by staying indoors while drinking a good stiff beer. Liberals can be driven off by other things as well but they are really a little iffy to discuss in this list - too broad a spectrum of people. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 01:03:54 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: <3668CB21.5F6FC6D5@cnct.com> Message-ID: <3668DAD9.9414E761@bigfoot.com> Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Been there, done that. Static electricity was not high on my list > of concerns at the time. Rather glad I wasn't sharing the car with > an S-100 system, now that I think on it. Though shortly before I'd > been turned down for a loan to get $12,000 worth of Cromemco gear > and assorted peripherals (early 1979). Back in 79 or so most vehicles still had vinyl seat covers and cloth was an option and as someone else pointed out the newer tires/tyres have less carbon and more insulative silicon now. I don't remember ever getting nailed when on a vinyl cover, other than the 'roids screaming in pain on a frozen seat. Anyone remember the Denim option for the Gremlin way back when? Boy could we start a thread on cars that were worse junkers than some failed computers huh? > -- > Ward Griffiths > > WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, > and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 01:10:42 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: <36689155.6DB31588@banet.net> Message-ID: <3668DC71.A48BFA7@bigfoot.com> Will Emerson wrote: > Yeah, try the J. C. Whitney catalog (Chicago Il, US. I believe), if your > local auto parts J.C. Whitney outside Chicago and I still believe Warshawski & Sons in Chicago, on the corner of Archer Ave and State Street. Any mail you get from them is now marked "W & Co." probably to cover both DBAs. Pep Boys and AutoZone, both chain auto parts stores, should have something but I'm guessing the best quality strap would come from a fleet truck parts place where they have to fit DOT quality straps to trucks that carry hazardous materials. If yoy can't locate one, call a nearby trucking outfit and talk to their shop foreman about where you can get one. If they lease then they will have their own mechanic for the company they lease from, such as Ryder. Our trucks at work carry groceries and they still are outfitted with the drag straps by Ryder, especially the refrigerated units. From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 5 03:49:37 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:55 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 Message-ID: <442dbf07.366901b1@aol.com> I probably have a couple of cables. Paxton If interested please reply to whoagiii@aol.com From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sat Dec 5 04:05:03 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981204153410.00eaa100@pc> Message-ID: A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of the list: Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable for interfracing to a 6820 port? Serial terminals & kbrds seem much more common - kbrd isn't really a bandwidth hog - but all my software was coded for a parallel port.. Currently I'm using the joystick ports of an Atari 800 (another 6820) - which is actually kinda nice (a programmable keyboard!) but would eventually like to find the real thing. tia Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From gram at cnct.com Sat Dec 5 08:21:57 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? References: <199812042218.RAA27198@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Dec 4, 98 05:24:23 pm <199812050635.BAA09459@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <36694185.8C3BFE98@cnct.com> jpero@pop.cgocable.net wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:03:10 +0000 (GMT) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? > > > I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using friends for knowing this one... > > > > .xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet > > itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also > > .xlm for the macro files > > You're forgiven... :) I figured out that I could search juse *.xls > and it clued me in and thought if I could try the M$ site to see if I > could d/l the freeware excel reader and yes it is! Be careful. Microsoft never gives anything away -- their "free" stuff is intended to addict the unwary. Fortunately, their "free" stuff is about as attractive as a kerosene hangover. (Ask any old jet mechanic whether the high is worth it). -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From gram at cnct.com Sat Dec 5 08:27:44 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: <199812042119.QAA16839@quartz.netsync.net> <19981204234334.5783.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3668D633.59F5655E@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <366942E0.660EF422@cnct.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > Christian Fandt wrote: > > > You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain > > > dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) > > > > I only noticed one of these for the first time about a month ago. I > > was wondering why they were dragging a chain; it was throwing lots of > > sparks. Didn't seem like a great idea to me, but what do I know? > > It's not since there shouldn't be sparks as the chain or strap is > supposed to be non-ferrous, ie brass or copper. Sure it wears out but no > sparks. Just a good ground to earth to drain the buildup from the frame. Yes, throwing sparks does sort of defeat the purpose. Never saw one do that, admittedly the only place I ever paid attention was the flight-line back when I did airplanes for a living. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From rcini at msn.com Sat Dec 5 09:06:01 1998 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: System/23??? Message-ID: <007301be2060$e7428c40$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> On Dec 1998 13:05:24 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >>Ok here's one for all those of you familiar with the older IBM iron. I >>have just fallen into a unit that looks much like a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 {snip} That's the somewhat famous Datamaster. I have one, and I have some diskettes, but I have a bad ROM, so it doesn't boot. The Datamaster is a desktop office machine. From what I understand, it did word processing and accounting functions. It has a built-in BASIC interpreter, so you can do some programming. It's based on the 8085 (Intel house numbered). I can't seem to find the correspondence that I had with the guy I got mine from, but his wife worked on the development team. The 23 was the immediate predecessor to the PC. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From cube at msn.fullfeed.com Sat Dec 5 08:54:09 1998 From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19981204153410.00eaa100@pc> Message-ID: <199812051513.JAA03384@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> I built one, once upon a time, out of a Univac keypunch keyboard and some TTL logic. Worked great. Used it on my Altair for years Really nice LOUD CLICKS. Loved it. I suspect this would be tough to do with a modern PC keyboard, but if you look at really old stuff (like at a state/university surplus sale or some such) you might find something. Jay At 05:05 AM 12/5/98 -0500, cswiger wrote: >A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of >the list: > >Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable >for interfracing to a 6820 port? Serial terminals & kbrds seem much >more common - kbrd isn't really a bandwidth hog - but all my software >was coded for a parallel port.. Currently I'm using the joystick ports >of an Atari 800 (another 6820) - which is actually kinda nice >(a programmable keyboard!) but would eventually like to find the >real thing. > >tia > > Chuck > cswiger@widomaker.com > From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Sat Dec 5 09:51:23 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: OFF Topic: Downy In-Reply-To: <36688D0B.C7BC3049@cnct.com> References: from "R. Stricklin" at Dec 3, 98 06:13:39 pm Message-ID: >> >There are a few things you can do to minimize static. First you can >>either buy >> >an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as >>recommended, then >> >spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry. >> >> Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it >> specifically for this purpose? > >It's a "fabric softener". It leaves a chemical residue after the rinse Pefect for the skin... :)= Nasos From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Sat Dec 5 10:22:26 1998 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <366a5c90.2890285@smtp.site1.csi.com> Russ, Thanks to you and others for the info. Your message caused me to re-visit Compaq's site and I now have a setup disk. I have now set the options to leave the modem off at startup. How does one turn it back on without using setup? Thanks again Richard Hall On Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:40:24 -0600, you wrote: >What do you need to know? The memory is a special type SIMM available in >1 or 4mb versions and up to 3 can be added. The video modes can be snip . > >Russ Blakeman >Harned, KY > old hydroplane photos http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hydros_by_hall/ From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Dec 5 10:50:10 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale Message-ID: <12124929@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hey all -- sorry if this is uninteresting -- I have no idea about the age/value/rarity of these machines, but the CS dept here is selling them, and if anyone's interested, email me privately. This is forwarded from the lab admin. -- MB ---------- * DecStation 500 - the old risc (not alpha) Dec, with keyboard, mouse, and video cables, but without monitor and scsi disk. Apparently these run FreeBSD, though I have never tried it. They don't run Linux. $100 each. * Sun IPC - one of the early sparc architecture machines, it is old enough that most people have never heard of it. I believe that it won't run the newest Sun OS. With a huge 19" or so color monitor, 16 meg memory, and hard drive. One only. $250 * Mac IIci - I have about ten of these puppies, no monitors, but probably a mouse and keyboard if you act fast. $35 * Sun computation center - a Sun-60 desktop server with scsi disk, a sun-120 vme-bus machine with non scsi tape controller, and a 9 track reel-to-reel tape drive. You must remove the (very heavy) tape drive from the rack that it is in. This was much faster than the Vax 11-780 that used to be the heavy Unix machine on campus, back in '89. $250 takes it all. Bring a truck. Small print: All sales are final. This equipment is sold "as is" with absolutely no warranty. I am not able to answer any questions about software installation or setup. You can try the equipment if you want to do all the lugging. The equipment must be removed from Sudikoff Lab within a month - if I find it around after that I will throw it away! There may be viable operating systems on the disks of any machines with disks, but I am not selling any rights to use the software or offering upgrades or replacements. (I believe that the Sun right to use goes with the equipment.) Prices are negotiable. In cases where a disk is included I will sell the item for substantially less without the disk or disk enclosure. If you have to ask how, it is probably not for you.... From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Sat Dec 5 11:13:03 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <12124929@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 5 Dec 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > * Sun IPC - one of the early sparc architecture machines, > it is old enough that most people have never heard of it. > I believe that it won't run the newest Sun OS. With > a huge 19" or so color monitor, 16 meg memory, and hard drive. > One only. $250 Unless there is an additional framebuffer installed, the monitor is probably mono (the IPC had a mono FB onboard). It's a 25mhz sbus Sparc in a lunchbox case, and should run newer Solaris just fine (*slow*). It takes 30-pin sims and the usual HD for these was ~200megs. Gstek (www.gstek.com) has these base units on sale for $15 apiece (sans HD, RAM, kbd/mouse, monitor). From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 11:25:46 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <12124929@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: >* DecStation 500 - the old risc (not alpha) Dec, with >keyboard, mouse, and video cables, but without monitor >and scsi disk. Apparently these run FreeBSD, though >I have never tried it. They don't run Linux. They run OpenBSD or NetBSD. FreeBSD currently only supports x86, although I've heard they're adding Alpha support. I assume this is actually a DECstation 5000, these things were built to run Ultrix. Note, they will not run VMS. I could have sworn there was a Linux port, but might be mistaken as I don't keep up with the non-x86 versions of Linux at the moment. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 5 09:57:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: from "cswiger" at Dec 5, 98 05:05:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/59418b43/attachment.ksh From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sat Dec 5 13:51:52 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of > > the list: > > > > Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable > > Looking around here, I can spot the Gemini keyboard. That has a parallel > Ascii interface on it. 7 data lines + strobe. So does the keyboard on a > PERQ 1, but if you raid a PERQ 1 for its keyboard I will LART you :-). > Oh no, I can appreciate things that are worth more as a system than broken up into parts > > At one time (long-discontinued), Maplin sold a kit for a > parallel-interfaced Ascii keyboard. > Mine was a Radio Shack kit - still have the manual > > > My recomendation would be to program a microcontroller to take a serial > keyboard (possibly a PC keyboard, although then you need to have a > scancode-> ascii table in the ROM) input and then output the parallel > format you require. > Sounds better'n being 'LART'd Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sat Dec 5 14:08:42 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: What a coincidence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Members: Just have to brag about this: recently came across a Cromemco S-100 memory, 64KZ-II sans manual. Today went to the local industrial science surplus store, looking thru the military radio manuals when what to my wondering eyes should appear - a 64KZ-II manual addendum!! Not the full thing but has dip switch settings and schematic at least. Produced on a system running the Cromix(tm) OS. BTW - same store recently got in some disk packs, RL01K-DC for DEC. They're selling them for $5. What was the capacity of those things? 5, 10 MB ?? Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sat Dec 5 14:20:42 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > probably mono (the IPC had a mono FB onboard). It's a 25mhz sbus Sparc in > a lunchbox case, and should run newer Solaris just fine (*slow*). It takes > 30-pin sims and the usual HD for these was ~200megs. Gstek (www.gstek.com) A funny story about one of those ~200MB SCSI's - a friend was helping install some 'diskless' workstations, so they gave him the disks and he gave me one, a Maxtor. I had it on a pc, laying on top of a table and one day it went "BLAM!" like someone set off a firecracker, and the pc shut down. Turned power off/on and it came right back like nothing had happened! Turned out to be a reversed biased diode across the power lines let got - nothing important. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From dogas at leading.net Sat Dec 5 15:24:18 1998 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <01be2095$9e050e60$d8c962cf@devlaptop> Hi gang I just pick up a new, which is to say, old system. Of course, it has no suppoting information. I bought it as an 'IMSAI 8048 controll computer'. Its in a nodescript molded black hardshell case, has a hex machine coding panel/keyboard and nine digit led display. Opening it up reveals a single board system +- power supply. Primary chips on the board are i D8243, i D8279-5 (sublabled 4404A hmmm...), and a NEC D8035LC. At the bottom of the board: c 1977 IMSAI MFG CORP., SAN LEARNDRO, CA... and this at opposite corner: 8048cc REV. 1 AR 1. Did that send anyone into a flashback??? Thanks - Mike: dogas+AEA-leading.net From marvin at rain.org Sat Dec 5 15:46:00 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: ebay: Heathkit Hero References: Message-ID: <3669A998.E3A5630D@rain.org> Someone was looking for a Heathkit Hero. Current price is $455 with a little over 2 days left in the auction. URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=47012073 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Dec 5 15:58:00 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: What a coincidence Message-ID: <981205165800.2de004c6@trailing-edge.com> >BTW - same store recently got in some disk packs, RL01K-DC >for DEC. They're selling them for $5. What was the capacity >of those things? 5, 10 MB ?? RL01's are 5 Megabytes - 10240 512-byte blocks, to be exact. You can still buy them new, from DECDirect (1-800-Digital), for ~US$200 a pop. Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Dec 5 16:56:41 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale Message-ID: <981205175641.2de004ce@trailing-edge.com> >the disks and he gave me one, a Maxtor. I had it on a pc, laying >on top of a table and one day it went "BLAM!" like someone set >off a firecracker, and the pc shut down. Turned power off/on and it >came right back like nothing had happened! Turned out to be important. Ah - you got one of those special NED's (Noise Emitting Diodes), I see. Tim. From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 5 16:57:31 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: <3668D633.59F5655E@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > > Christian Fandt wrote: > > > You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain > > > dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) > > > > I only noticed one of these for the first time about a month ago. I > > was wondering why they were dragging a chain; it was throwing lots of > > sparks. Didn't seem like a great idea to me, but what do I know? > > It's not since there shouldn't be sparks as the chain or strap is > supposed to be non-ferrous, ie brass or copper. Sure it wears out but no > sparks. Just a good ground to earth to drain the buildup from the frame. Back in my younger days, when I remember static drain chains on tank trucks being common, they were always ferrous and sparks as the steel abraded on stone in the pavement surface was the norm. - don From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 5 17:05:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: <366942E0.660EF422@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > > Christian Fandt wrote: > > > > You've probably seen fuel tanker trucks with a metal chain > > > > dragging. It too was used as a static drain for obvious reasons ;) > > > > > > I only noticed one of these for the first time about a month ago. I > > > was wondering why they were dragging a chain; it was throwing lots of > > > sparks. Didn't seem like a great idea to me, but what do I know? > > > > It's not since there shouldn't be sparks as the chain or strap is > > supposed to be non-ferrous, ie brass or copper. Sure it wears out but no > > sparks. Just a good ground to earth to drain the buildup from the frame. > > Yes, throwing sparks does sort of defeat the purpose. Never saw one > do that, admittedly the only place I ever paid attention was the > flight-line back when I did airplanes for a living. Not really, since the primary purpose is to drain any static charge prior to rigging out the tank filler hose and having a spark at the tank filler pipe. - don > Ward Griffiths > > WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, > and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 5 16:30:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: from "cswiger" at Dec 5, 98 02:51:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/f9dbda23/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 5 16:48:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request In-Reply-To: <01be2095$9e050e60$d8c962cf@devlaptop> from "Mike" at Dec 5, 98 04:24:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981205/38302822/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 5 17:23:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <199812052323.AA10480@world.std.com> < I just pick up a new, which is to say, old system. Of course, it has n < suppoting information. I bought it as an 'IMSAI 8048 controll computer' < Its in a nodescript molded black hardshell case, has a hex machine codin < panel/keyboard and nine digit led display. Opening it up reveals a sing < board system +- power supply. Primary chips on the board are i D8243, < D8279-5 (sublabled 4404A hmmm...), and a NEC D8035LC. At the bottom of < board: c 1977 IMSAI MFG CORP., SAN LEARNDRO, CA... and this at opposit < corner: 8048cc REV. 1 AR 1. I have one operating! What I don't have is docs other than my memory. I post quarterly or so a "anyone seen dos for this one" request. What it has... 2k of ram that you can run programs from a 1k monitor that can save to cassette and TTY/papertape. The interfaces include OPTO isolated, relays, TTY 20mA currentloop interface and also a audio casette interface. It was a foray into 8035/8048 SBC market. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 5 19:21:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: System/23??? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981205192153.2e7f59f2@intellistar.net> FWIW I got this from a friend at IBM. > >Joe, >Thanks for the offer but I have no interest in it a S/23. By the >way....Token ring didn't exist when we sold these things..I'm not sure what >he is referring to. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Dec 5 17:46:56 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: new hamfest additions Message-ID: <9b875876.3669c5f0@aol.com> good size hamfest in greensboro, nc and here is what i picked up. epson hx20 complete with plastic carrying case. where can i get the tiny cassette tapes for it and it also has a expansion unit added on the left. what does that do? no ac adaptor to test yet. the guy also had a commodore sx64, but too expensive. also picked up a ps2 model 60 that worked fine once i ran reconfig on it. an interesting find is a complete ti99/4a system still sealed in its box along with the expansion unit and optional floppy drive, all for $15. the 3 boxes were never opened until i did it. it's the beige model rebadged by CDC for schools here in raleigh. i also got ~50 disk based school software titles for it as well. all of it's worthless of course, but interesting to find something well over 10 years old and never saw the light of day until now. david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 5 19:51:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981205195121.41d70684@intellistar.net> At 10:30 PM 12/5/98 +0000, Tony D. wrote: >The obvious source of parallel ASCII keyboards is the Apple ][, of >course. And they're not exactly hard to find, are they? I don't think >anyone would flame too much if you raided one of those. > Tony, Do you have the pinouts of that keyboard? If so can you post them here? I know it would be easy enough to figure out but it would save time if you could post it. Joe From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 5 18:19:18 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: System/23??? Message-ID: <35d3bf09.3669cd86@aol.com> I believe the two 9 pin connectors went to a printer and to a modem if you needed one. Prob. both are serial ports. I may have printer cables in my whse. Paxton reply to whoagiii@aol.com if interested. Portland, Oregon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 5 18:18:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981205195121.41d70684@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 5, 98 07:51:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 680 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981206/ea14864e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 5 18:27:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: new hamfest additions In-Reply-To: <9b875876.3669c5f0@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Dec 5, 98 06:46:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981206/7f694440/attachment.ksh From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sat Dec 5 19:21:56 1998 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <03a601be20b6$f18f7540$8968a8c2@gareth.knight2> Greetz all, I'm buying an old 486 and want to try some of the FREE alternative OS' (no Microsoft stuff thank you) that are available for it. Operating systems such as GEM, QNX, OS/2 and GEOS. Can anyone recommend any other that can be run, such as embedded or old operating systems? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Sat Dec 5 19:57:13 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Documentation Available Message-ID: I finally put up some new shelves and was able to go through a few boxes of books today. What I ended up with was a few spare things, which are available to anyone who wants to pay shipping. Anything unwanted will go to the recycling bin for Tuesday morning's pickup... SunOS 4.1 System Manual, volumes I and II (missing III, it may be here) SunOS 4.0 Network Administrator's Guide SunView Programmers Guide (above are in large 3-ring binders) Sperry PC-IT Manual set (System Guide, DOS, BASIC mini-binders in boxes) Please contact me privately... Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 5 20:28:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <199812060228.AA06233@world.std.com> < I'm buying an old 486 and want to try some of the FREE alternative OS' ( < Microsoft stuff thank you) that are available for it. Operating systems < as GEM, QNX, OS/2 and GEOS. Can anyone recommend any other that can be r < such as embedded or old operating systems? If you have at least 8meg of ram in that 486 try Linux, Freebsd, OpenBSD or NetBSD. These are all free (maybe a few dollars for the CDrom) and represent high performance unix operating systems of various flavors that are mostly similar if not the same. I'm not a unix fan but compared to MSwinders and the dos similars (other than OS/2 warp or concurrent cpm) it's a real screamer. Another one if your interested in OS internals is Minix, the disk set to install on a 486 is only a dozen floppies and it will fit with sources on a 40mb drive. It's unix but simpler, of the V6 flavor. it's simplicity makes it quite fast! Allison From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 5 20:51:30 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: What a coincidence In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >BTW - same store recently got in some disk packs, RL01K-DC >for DEC. They're selling them for $5. What was the capacity >of those things? 5, 10 MB ?? They are the 5Mb packs used in RL-01 drives. The RL-02's are preferable since they are 10Mb, the packs for the 2's also have a shock indicator, which I've not seen on 1's. If the indicator has turned, it's a good bet the pack has problems, but not always. Anyone know how hard it is to re-balance a pack? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Dec 5 21:04:22 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Keyboards Message-ID: <199812060304.TAA20635@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi All, Fair Radio sales has (in their last cat.) 3 parallel keyboards for US$10, "Cheap" because "the IBM PC standard killed the market for them". They are at: www2.wcoil.com/~fairadio At 02:51 PM 12/5/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> > >> > A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of >> > the list: >> > >> > Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable -Dave From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sat Dec 5 21:20:57 1998 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: VAX collectors attention Message-ID: <032601be20c7$7d38ae80$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: Huw Davies To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, 3 December 1998 14:54 Subject: Re: VAX collectors attention >Excuse me, I've still got one in production and a couple of spares in my >"spares" room.... I think you should open your spares room to the public and charge admission. :^) >>Allison or one of the other Master Decologists will doubtless correct any >>mistakes in the above. :^) > >Well I'm not Allison :-) No, but it's a safe bet you fit the "or one of the other" etc. option. :^) cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax) From yowza at yowza.com Sat Dec 5 21:33:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Mosaic Twin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Man, pickings are getting slim around here. After looking around for anything of any historic significance, all I could come up with is a shrink-wrapped copy of Mosaic Twin. This was a Lotus 123 clone from around 1986. In 1987, Lotus sued Mosaic for violating their look-and-feel copyright and won! (So, I assume all copies were recalled and destroyed and mine is the only surviving copy, right?) I remember that Lotus tried to sue Borland too, and lost, but they lost because Quattro Pro wasn't an exact clone. I don't remember if the idea of look-and-feel copyright was ever thrown out, though. Was it? How similar is Star Office to Microsoft Office, BTW? -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Dec 6 00:04:38 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) Message-ID: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> This is about 26 days off-topic. I have an old HP Vectra RS/25-c 386-25/1MB RAM, 100MB HD, 1.2 MB floppy. (BIOS dated 1989). I"m trying to get it set up as a home server, but I first need a few things: -Setup software. -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected to some sort of network hub). -An old Vectra keyboard? Can't get the numeric keypad to work on the keyboard I have. -Networking hardware (mainly a hub and network cards) I have a copy of DR-DOS 7.x with networking extensions. Will this work with the Vectra (haven"t installed it yet)? For one thing, I don"t even know if there"s something in setup that enables/disables the network card. I"d like to use the built-in card, since most of the networked computers will be 8086"s -286"s, and speed isn"t an issue. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From kurtkilg at geocities.com Sat Dec 5 21:48:32 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Mosaic Twin In-Reply-To: <199812060345.WAA01390@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 yowza@yowza.com wrote: > How similar is Star Office to Microsoft Office, BTW? Nowadays, with the advent of the GUI, look and feel lawsuits are meaningless. Everything looks the same anyway. > > -- Doug > > ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor From kurtkilg at geocities.com Sat Dec 5 21:52:05 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <199812060349.WAA01405@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 roblwill@usaor.net wrote: > -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a > plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected > to some sort of network hub). As far as I am aware, that's a weirdo keyboard connector. There's a matching one in the monitor and the keyboard. > -An old Vectra keyboard? Can't get the numeric keypad to work on the > keyboard I have. > -Networking hardware (mainly a hub and network cards) > > I have a copy of DR-DOS 7.x with networking extensions. Will this work with > the Vectra (haven"t installed it yet)? For one thing, I don"t even know if > there"s something in setup that enables/disables the network card. I"d like > to use the built-in card, since most of the networked computers will be > 8086"s -286"s, and speed isn"t an issue. > > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 21:56:26 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: System/23??? References: <3.0.1.16.19981205192153.2e7f59f2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <366A0069.3B7D3629@bigfoot.com> Does he possibly have an idea of any available docs at IBm or on one of their sites? Thanks for the forward. Joe wrote: > FWIW I got this from a friend at IBM. > > > > >Joe, > >Thanks for the offer but I have no interest in it a S/23. By the > >way....Token ring didn't exist when we sold these things..I'm not sure what > >he is referring to. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 21:58:35 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: System/23??? References: <007301be2060$e7428c40$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <366A00E9.891DB339@bigfoot.com> I have two of them, one in complete shape and one that has been semi-gutted to include a broken crt neck. If you can give me an idea of the board or chip number/location I may be able to get you the board or chips from the gutted one for the shipping costs alone. Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > On Dec 1998 13:05:24 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > >>Ok here's one for all those of you familiar with the older IBM iron. I > >>have just fallen into a unit that looks much like a TRS-80 model 3 or 4 > {snip} > > That's the somewhat famous Datamaster. I have one, and I have some > diskettes, but I have a bad ROM, so it doesn't boot. > > The Datamaster is a desktop office machine. From what I understand, it did > word processing and accounting functions. It has a built-in BASIC > interpreter, so you can do some programming. It's based on the 8085 (Intel > house numbered). I can't seem to find the correspondence that I had with the > guy I got mine from, but his wife worked on the development team. The 23 was > the immediate predecessor to the PC. > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > [ ClubWin!/CW7 > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > [ Collector of "classic" computers > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > <================ reply separator =================> From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Dec 5 22:00:58 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> <366a5c90.2890285@smtp.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> You may try sending the string ECHO ATA >COMx (x is the comport number) at the DOS prompt to see if it wakes up and makes a hellacious scream (that will quit in a few seconds). If so then the modem will stay asleep until an intialization string is sent to it. Richard A. Hall wrote: > Russ, > Thanks to you and others for the info. Your message caused me to re-visit > Compaq's site and I now have a setup disk. I have now set the options to leave > the modem off at startup. How does one turn it back on without using setup? > Thanks again > Richard Hall > > On Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:40:24 -0600, you wrote: > > >What do you need to know? The memory is a special type SIMM available in > >1 or 4mb versions and up to 3 can be added. The video modes can be > snip > . > > > >Russ Blakeman > >Harned, KY > > > > old hydroplane photos http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hydros_by_hall/ From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Dec 5 21:56:39 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: OT: What if Dr. Seuss wrote computer manuals? Message-ID: <01be20cc$6dafaf40$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Actually, I was reminded of +ACI-Iolanthe+ACI-. manney +AD4APg- +AD4-What if Dr. Seuss Wrote a Computer Manual??? +AD4- +AD4-Actually, that poem scans to Gilbert +ACY- Sullivan, rather than to Dr. +AD4-Seuss. Specifically +ACI-Modern Major General+ACI-. The same tune as Tom +AD4-Lehrer's +ACI-The Elements+ACI-. Or the (ancient) filk song +ACI-I've Built a +AD4-Better Model Than the One at Data General+ACI-. +AD4--- +AD4-Ward Griffiths +ADw-mailto:gram+AEA-cnct.com+AD4- +ADw-http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, +AD4-and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. +AD4- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Dec 5 22:09:48 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: ot by 28 days - the 386 Vectra Message-ID: <199812060409.VAA29157@calico.litterbox.com> HP has very good support web pages. Vectras appear to be at http://www.support.vectra.hp.com:8001/ They don't seem to have a lot of stuff prior to the 486 era, but there are some references to 386s. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dogas at leading.net Sat Dec 5 22:58:16 1998 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <01be20d5$093a6f60$f8c962cf@devlaptop> Thanks Allison & Tony for the info on the 8048. Allison, I got one of those infamous after the sale posts from the seller that he thought he might have the docs and if so would send them along. I'll certainly keep you in mind if this should transpire. Thanks again. - Mike:dogas@leading.net p.s. Anyone have the opcode listing for a 8048? From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 5 23:34:29 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: What a coincidence Message-ID: <199812060534.AA10129@world.std.com> < which I've not seen on 1's. If the indicator has turned, it's a good be < the pack has problems, but not always. Anyone know how hard it is to < re-balance a pack? The shock indicator was purchasable before it became standard. It's not a matter of balance, were talking warped. If dropped at various angles the 14" platter can become seriously nonplanar and kill the heads. Allison From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Sat Dec 5 23:45:31 1998 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> <366a5c90.2890285@smtp.site1.csi.com> <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <366c1963.51236353@smtp.site1.csi.com> No go Russ, I tried the ATA both from Dos and from Procomm Plus. I also tries "+++" to no avail. Any other Ideas? On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:00:58 -0600, you wrote: >You may try sending the string ECHO ATA >COMx (x is the comport number) at the >DOS prompt to see if it wakes up and makes a hellacious scream (that will quit in >a few seconds). If so then the modem will stay asleep until an intialization >string is sent to it. > From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 6 00:12:20 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: ebay: Commodore Pet w/ Chicklet keyboard References: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Message-ID: <366A2044.6D71EA30@rain.org> Kind of interesting to follow what these things are selling for. Is the need for Christmas money bringing these things out :) ? Current price is $110 with 4+ days left. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=46646006 From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 6 00:11:40 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: "Jason Willgruber"'s message of Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:04:38 -0800 References: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Message-ID: <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jason Willgruber" writes: > -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a > plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected > to some sort of network hub). Looks can be deceiving. That might be an HP-HIL connector -- does it have a picture of the corresponding plug with one or two dots on the cable, or maybe just the one or two dots? If so, it's HIL, and is there so you can hook up a Vectra HIL keyboard (as shipped with the real original Vectras that don't have alphabet soup after the word "Vectra") or an HIL mouse or an HIL monitor w/touchscreen. -Frank McConnell From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Sat Dec 5 19:51:47 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <366c1963.51236353@smtp.site1.csi.com> References: <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <199812060645.BAA02598@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 05:45:31 GMT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: hydros_by_hall@csi.com (Richard A. Hall) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Compaq SLT/286 > No go Russ, I tried the ATA both from Dos and from Procomm Plus. I also tries > "+++" to no avail. Any other Ideas? > > > On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:00:58 -0600, you wrote: > > >You may try sending the string ECHO ATA >COMx (x is the comport number) at the > >DOS prompt to see if it wakes up and makes a hellacious scream (that will quit in > >a few seconds). If so then the modem will stay asleep until an intialization > >string is sent to it. > > > I have read many compaq manuals, you need to d/l the utilities from compaq and use I think mode program is what does that or something like that. www.compaq.com, site guide, support resources, portables, out of production, select SLT 286. Oh rats, no utilities easier enough to find for that poor guy! :( any solutions? Jason D. Still user of parted out and breaking down LTE 386s/20 and former owner of SLT 286 and 386s/20, soon to be a new owner of Aero 4/25! email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Dec 6 01:23:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:56 2005 Subject: system info request In-Reply-To: <03a601be20b6$f18f7540$8968a8c2@gareth.knight2> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Gareth Knight wrote: > I'm buying an old 486 and want to try some of the FREE alternative OS' (no > Microsoft stuff thank you) that are available for it. Operating systems such > as GEM, QNX, OS/2 and GEOS. Can anyone recommend any other that can be run, > such as embedded or old operating systems? The last I heard, none of the OS' you mention are free. Try Linux or FreeBSD. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 02:48:22 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: x86 OS's (was: Re: system info request) In-Reply-To: References: <03a601be20b6$f18f7540$8968a8c2@gareth.knight2> Message-ID: Sam Ismail wrote: >On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Gareth Knight wrote: > >> I'm buying an old 486 and want to try some of the FREE alternative OS' (no >> Microsoft stuff thank you) that are available for it. Operating systems such >> as GEM, QNX, OS/2 and GEOS. Can anyone recommend any other that can be run, >> such as embedded or old operating systems? > >The last I heard, none of the OS' you mention are free. Try Linux or >FreeBSD. GEM - Doesn't this run on top of CP/M-86 and/or maybe DOS, since it's DR I believe it's free for personal use. I doubt it would be very useful. QNX - There is a free demo version, about all you can do is surf the web with it though. The demo boots from floppy. OS/2 - About the only thing out there on the PC more non-free would be WinNT Server or OPENSTEP. I've run versions 1.3 through 3.0 on a 486/33 first with 8Mb, and then 20Mb. It's a great OS, but basically dead. GEOS - Runs on top of DOS, the company currently supporting it, had been providing some sort of demo version for it. It looks really great actually, and come to think of it I believe my above mentioned 486 has a copy on it somewhere (probably still on a Linux partition) that I downloaded to try a year or so ago. I'd forgotten about it. Unfortunatly they no longer support the really low end systems, I can't remember if they still support the 286 or not. Should run great on a 486 and from what I saw provide a useful system. CP/M-86 - Free for personal use. I've got a hard drive in a sled for my P133 that has CP/M-86 loaded on it, but I've not really played with it, and am not sure what would be available. OpenDOS - Originally DR DOS, then Novel DOS. Caldera now owns it and the rest of the Digital Research software such as CP/M. Free for personal use. They seem to be trying to sell it for embedded apps. FreeDOS - A FREE opensource version of DOS. IBM PC-DOS - Can you believe CompUSA still carries this? MS DOS - Shouldn't be hard to find copies at Goodwill, etc. MS Win95/98/NT - In a word, the work of the Devil. TSX-32 - Is there a demo version? I gather the commercial version is seriously expensive. Based on TSX-11, the same company did both. NextStep - Commercial, but you might be able to find a version of 3.3 fairly cheap. It's very nice. OPENSTEP will run on a 486, but personally I recommend a Pentium for it. Think BSD UNIX running on a Mach Microkernel with a custom (not X-Windows) GUI. Beautiful, ahead of it's time, the Lighthouse apps are now available for free for personal use, and provide all the apps you need. I can't say enough good about this OS, but Apple bought it and it became... Rhapsody - Well, you've got to be a Apple Developer to have a copy, it's OPENSTEP heritage is glaringly obvious though getting better. Now called MacOS X, MacOS X Server, or some such. I really like MacOS, so am looking forward to the finished product. I can't stand the new name though, sounds to much like part of X-Windows! BeOS - I don't think there is a x86 Demo version, and I don't think it will run on a 486. I've not played with a x86 version, but the PPC versions I've played with on a Mac didn't impress me. SCO Unix/Xenix - Commercial UNIX, I think a personal use version of SCO Unix is available Sun Solaris x86 - Free for personnal use, BUT you've got to sign up for their developer program (apparently free), and pay $10 for shipping and handling, you can get either the x86 or Sparc/UltraSparc versions. Various other commercial UNIX's - If you can find them, they'd probably be cheap used software. Linux - This is a FREE OS, it's also one of the best OS's out there in my not so humble opinion. I've currently got four different systems that run Linux, though I normally only have one of them up. A 486 can handle it without any problem, though you'll want more than 8Mb RAM if you intend to run X-Windows. All kinds of useful software out there that is free for Linux, and there is starting to be a lot of commercial software available. A lot of which is free for personal use (WordPerfect is a good example). Supports x86, Alpha, PPC, 68k, ARM, Sparc, and I think a couple other processors. FreeBSD - Well, Linux is a System V varient, and FreeBSD is obviously a BSD varient. That about sums it up. It's x86, but I've heard they're adding Alpha support. NetBSD - NetBSD is cool, their aim is to support as many platforms as possible, and they support a lot! OpenBSD - Their aim is Security, they run on most platforms supported by NetBSD. I've just set up a DEC Alpha running OpenBSD and so far am impressed. As far as security, well, I just ran 'Saint' on my PII running RedHat 5.1, and my Alpha running OpenBSD 2.4. It turns out I'm running network services I don't want to on the Linux box, and I hadn't even realized it. Plus there are some definite vulnerablities. On the OpenBSD box however, it's only running what I _TURNED ON_, and 'Saint' recommended turning off 'R Services' and 'finger'. I know I've missed a few, but they're probably more obscure than some I've listed here. I'd recommend Linux, or a used copy of Nextstep or OS/2 (Nextstep has better Office Apps, and you can get them free). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sun Dec 6 03:50:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: x86 OS's (was: Re: system info request) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > MS Win95/98/NT - In a word, the work of the Devil. Hey, watch it! That's five words :-) -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Dec 6 07:45:52 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: PET keyboard (was: Re: Replacing 6550s) In-Reply-To: <199811290504.VAA09740@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > ::"chiclet keyboard" != "rubber keys", IMHO. I'm talking about the cute > ::multicoloured keyboard with the small plastic keys that are arranged in a > ::grid pattern. I call that a chiclet keyboard. > > Hmm, okay. But multicoloured? Which colours? Arranged how? It's not the keys themselves (they're made of white plastic) but the square inserts on top of them that are coloured. Red, dark blue, pale blue, grey. The SHIFT keys, SPACE, RETURN, CLR/HOME, and INST/DEL are red with white letters. OFF/RVS, RUN/STOP, and the to CRSR keys are dark blue with white lettering. All of the letters, the numbers, ':', and '.' are grey with black lettering. All else is pale blue with black lettering. The blues and grey are somewhat metallic in appearance. A very funky keyboard. > -- > -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database Programmer > Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 > ckaiser@ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 > -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Dec 6 08:05:20 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: PET Video (was: Replacing 6550s) & 128 In-Reply-To: <3661C61F.C91B1339@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Larry Anderson wrote: > > From: Doug Spence > > Subject: Re: Replacing 6550s > > > (I especially find it cool that they list various part numbers for the > > connector. :) ) > > Digikey is the best source for inexpensive PET compatible connectors. > (1-800-DIGI-KEY) along with a ton of other cool parts. Thanks for the tip! > > I just noticed for the first time (!) that the "PARALLEL USER PORT" has > > pins labeled "T.V. Video", "T.V. Vertical", and "T.V. Horizontal"! Has > > anyone actually connectd a TV or external monitor to a PET? > > There are plans for a composite video converter using those pins in Nick > Hampshire's PET Revealed, I think it only works on the older 9" screen pets > and not the 12" ones. The reason for it being on the user port was for deaier > diagnostic testing. > > I'll scan the circuit and put it on-line tonite: > > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petvideo.gif :) Cool. Another excuse to visit your website... again. :) > > ::"chiclet keyboard" != "rubber keys", IMHO. I'm talking about the cute > > ::multicoloured keyboard with the small plastic keys that are arranged in a > > ::grid pattern. I call that a chiclet keyboard. > > > > Hmm, okay. But multicoloured? Which colours? Arranged how? > > Ummm they were all metallic tops, Red, Gold, Blue, Silver... Check out my > PET page: Gold? Your PETs have gold keys? I have two shades of blue. And my red keys look significantly less metallic than the others. I couldn't tell if they were 'metallic' or if I was looking at the nail polish my brother coated the keys with to keep the printing from rubbing off. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 10:31:05 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: System/23??? In-Reply-To: <366A0069.3B7D3629@bigfoot.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19981205192153.2e7f59f2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206103105.452ff6f4@intellistar.net> Yes, he can check on docs. He got a service manual for me for my 5100. It was THE last manual of any kind that IBM had for the 5100. What are you looking for? Joe At 09:56 PM 12/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >Does he possibly have an idea of any available docs at IBm or on one of their >sites? Thanks for the forward. > >Joe wrote: > >> FWIW I got this from a friend at IBM. >> >> > >> >Joe, >> >Thanks for the offer but I have no interest in it a S/23. By the >> >way....Token ring didn't exist when we sold these things..I'm not sure what >> >he is referring to. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 10:34:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19981205195121.41d70684@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206103457.30274cd6@intellistar.net> Thanks Tony. I'll add that to my references. Never know when I might need a parallel keyboard. I KNEW I should have kept that APPLE reference manual I gave Phil. Joe At 12:18 AM 12/6/98 +0000, you wrote: >[ Apple ][ ] >> Do you have the pinouts of that keyboard? If so can you post them here? >> I know it would be easy enough to figure out but it would save time if you >> could post it. > >Sure. Note this is for the Apple ][ and ][+ only. The //e has a different >keyboard with the encoder chip on the mainboard. I've got details of that >as well, but it's not a parallel ASCII keyboard. > >The pinout for the Apple ][ keyboard (16 pin IC socket type of connector) >is (from the Apple ][ reference manual) : > >+5V 1 16 N/C >Strobe 2 15 -12V >Reset 3 14 N/C >N/C 4 13 D1 >D5 5 12 D0 >D4 6 11 D3 >D6 7 10 D2 >Gnd 8 9 N/C > >Hope that helps > >-tony > > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Dec 6 08:45:51 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Replacing 6550s In-Reply-To: <802566CC.0063F2A9.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > Doug Spence wrote: > > >> The original PET came with four different motherboard variations, viz: > >> > >> RAM = 6550, ROM = 6540 > > > > Both of my PETs are of this type, but one has the small keyboard and > > internal tape drive, and the other has the big keyboard. > > Large keyboard on a machine that early is a new one on me! I don't know that machine's entire history, so I suppose it's *possible* that the top half doesn't match the bottom half. Maybe I should inspect the hinge very carefully. :) It does have a blue-trimmed 9" white display, though, and I can't imagine anyone going to the bother of removing the Sphynx's head to change its paws. The front sticker is no longer on it. Apparently it now lives on a guitar owned by the bother of this PET, two owners ago. This particular PET also has upgrade ROMs, not the originals. Apparently this particular PET was 'the very first personal computer used at Air Canada'. > Blue trim was dropped fairly early - both the machines we had at school > were black trim - as was the rebadged cassette deck with the lift-the-lid > eject mechanism, the latter being replaced by the C2N. I had always > assummed that 1000035 meant the 35th machine with the 220-240V power > supply. Well, it still could mean that. I don't know when Commodore started making the things in Europe as compared to North America. Canada probably got a lot of the first PETs because Commodore was such a big company in Canada before the personal computer era. > > Actually, IIRC my small-keyboard PET uses little rubber cups. But I > > suppose there may be springs as well. The keyboard didn't work when I got > > it, so I had to disassemble it and wipe the circuit board clean. I never > > disassembled it beyond pulling the circuit board off. > > No rubber cups. Rubber cups or domes always in my experience give some > sort of mechanical hysteresis when you press them. All PET keyboards I've > used are smooth until they hit the stop. Small keyboard had little black > rubber pads set into the plastic mouldings of the keys. I think there are rubber cups of some sort, but they may be soft protective things rather than what provides the 'bounce'. I just tried both PET keyboards and compared the feel to other keyboards, and you're right, they are smooth. Potential 'rubber cup' keyboards: CoCo 1, Amiga 3000. Weird undefinable keyboard that mushes/springs at the bottom: Atari 130XE. :) > Only the lack of power. Flying lead from cartridge to 2nd cassette port is > the usual solution AFAIK (it's what I did on my RAM expansion). No, I've > never heard of ROM cartridges like this but I've met other things I think. > ROM expansion usually went inside... Where would you put ROM expansion? There's no empty sockets in this model PET. > > Why do POKE and PEEK fail there? Was that done on purpose or is it just > > the result of something lame like using a signed value to represent > > addresses? > > No, it's software. It was a feature that was supposed to prevent > inquisitive geeks disassembling the BASIC ROM between $C000 and (I think) > $E7FF. The OS ROMs, above $F000, were peekable, though, as was the I/O > space in the E block. You could of course peek and poke the screen, $8000 > - $83E7 inclusive. An inquisitive geek wouldn't be stopped long by that! Bill should have known better. :) > I'll try and dig out my RAM expansion board, and work out what it did. > Meanwhile, have fun! No fun until all my assignments and exams are done. :/ > Philip. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 6 09:04:38 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale References: <981205175641.2de004ce@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <366A9D06.8D984213@cnct.com> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > >the disks and he gave me one, a Maxtor. I had it on a pc, laying > >on top of a table and one day it went "BLAM!" like someone set > >off a firecracker, and the pc shut down. Turned power off/on and it > >came right back like nothing had happened! Turned out to be > >important. > > Ah - you got one of those special NED's (Noise Emitting Diodes), > I see. Some people have all the luck -- I've never seen (or heard) a noise-emitting diode. Lots of smoke-emitting diodes and light-emitting resistors in the past, however. And of course the occasional glop-emitting capacitor. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 6 09:37:47 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Mosaic Twin References: Message-ID: <366AA4CA.C4764480@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 yowza@yowza.com wrote: > > How similar is Star Office to Microsoft Office, BTW? > > Nowadays, with the advent of the GUI, look and feel lawsuits are > meaningless. Everything looks the same anyway. They finally seem to have accepted the automotive model -- Fords and Chevrolets have pretty well the same controls and displays in pretty much the same places. That and the ludicrosity of Apple suing Microsoft for borrowing concepts that Apple had borrowed from Xerox. Of course, with Apple and Microsoft sharing a bed, you have to wonder who is stealing the blankets. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 6 10:56:17 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record References: <3.0.1.16.19981205195121.41d70684@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19981206103457.30274cd6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <366AB731.28DDC9EA@rain.org> Hi John, Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but it will give you an idea of what it sold for. http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633 From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 6 11:19:21 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record References: <3.0.1.16.19981205195121.41d70684@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19981206103457.30274cd6@intellistar.net> <366AB731.28DDC9EA@rain.org> Message-ID: <366ABC99.989888C7@rain.org> Oops, meant that to go private. Oh well, but at least it will give you listmembers interested in computerized music an idea of what this stuff is going for ... at least on ebay :). Marvin wrote: > > Hi John, > > Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but > it will give you an idea of what it sold for. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633 From hhacker at gte.net Sun Dec 6 11:32:43 1998 From: hhacker at gte.net (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: What's a Lisp Machine? Message-ID: <007a01be213e$6fc5de40$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> I spoke with Chuck Fry, an old friend who once worked for Symbolics, and he gave some additional information regarding the Lisp engines produced at Symbolics. The Macintosh SBC was called the MacIvory. He gave some specifics about which of these devices which a computer collector might want, and this information will come in a later posting. Still, he said that the company is still in business, having been bought out by some individual but, that it is apparently nothing more than a maintenance operation. Still, when I get the telephone number of this person (he has an AOL account, as I understand), I will call him and see if he is aware of the availability of some MacIvory's and what one might cost. Chuck noted that the MacIvory worked only for nubus Mac's and that it had a tendency to crash MacOS. He said that the TI product was more resilient in hardware than MacIvory but, the condition was just the reverse for software executed on the respective machines. That is, the TI did not crash so often but, the applications were not so well developed or capable. William R. Buckley From hhacker at gte.net Sun Dec 6 11:38:09 1998 From: hhacker at gte.net (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <008601be213f$31a29f30$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> The item number was not recognised when I tried to visit. William R. Buckley >Oops, meant that to go private. Oh well, but at least it will give you >listmembers interested in computerized music an idea of what this stuff is >going for ... at least on ebay :). > >> http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633 From ai705 at osfn.org Sun Dec 6 12:13:21 1998 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: <199812060304.TAA20635@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote: > Fair Radio sales has (in their last cat.) 3 parallel keyboards for US$10, > "Cheap" because "the IBM PC standard killed the market for them". > They are at: www2.wcoil.com/~fairadio On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering if someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns up nothing. -- Stephen Dauphin From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 6 12:57:59 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record References: <008601be213f$31a29f30$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> Message-ID: <366AD3B7.A68CAE98@rain.org> Buck Savage wrote: > > The item number was not recognised when I tried to visit. Not sure what happened there. Apparently somewhere in between the cut and paste, the last number got dropped. This one hopefully will work okay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45456336 From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 6 13:26:55 1998 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: RD54 on an RQDX3? Message-ID: <4.1.19981206123033.00aad420@206.231.8.2> Hi gang, I will buy an RD54 to replace that ornery RD53 on my MVII (recall we discussed the problem of the RD53 drive heads sticking a while back?) I just want to make sure that the RQDX3 EPROM versions on the controller will handle an RD54 drive. The version numbers are labeled as so: 285-E5 & 286-E5. I'm buying a spare RQDX3 controller board with these version numbers. The RQDX3 in the MVII have an older version # which I cannot recall at the moment. Already searched Sunsite and Tim's Micronotes. Nothing about the 285-E5 & 286-E5 numbers shows up. Back in October there was a ClassicCmp thread regarding handling of RX33 floppies. No comment about RD54's addressed. Thanks for the help. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 13:45:47 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: RD54 on an RQDX3? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981206123033.00aad420@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: >I will buy an RD54 to replace that ornery RD53 on my MVII (recall we >discussed the problem of the RD53 drive heads sticking a while back?) You won't regret it, trust me. As far as I know, all revisions of the RQDX3 support the RD54, and it's mainly floppy drive support that changed. I'm sure someone will correct me though. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 6 12:14:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Dec 5, 98 10:52:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981206/dbf7f77c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 6 12:17:47 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: system info request In-Reply-To: <01be20d5$093a6f60$f8c962cf@devlaptop> from "Mike" at Dec 5, 98 11:58:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981206/623e923c/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Dec 6 16:57:46 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking Message-ID: <01be216b$d729a300$538ea6d1@the-general> Any idea where to get these any of these HIL devices? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:59 AM Subject: Re: OT HP vectra networking > >It's probably an HP-HIL (Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link IIRC) >connector. This was an HP interface used for keyboards, mice, >touchscreens, digitising tablets, security dongles, etc. You can >daisy-chain several devices off the same connector. > >-tony > > From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 6 14:01:10 1998 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: References: <199812060304.TAA20635@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19981206145255.00aa1100@206.231.8.2> At 13:13 12/06/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> Fair Radio sales has (in their last cat.) 3 parallel keyboards for US$10, >> "Cheap" because "the IBM PC standard killed the market for them". >> They are at: www2.wcoil.com/~fairadio > >On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some >sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering if >someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns >up nothing. Ooooh, yes! Please confirm this. Last I ordered from them was back in the early 80's. I got a bunch of military surplus radio pieces from them for my collection. Been thinking of tracking the company down recently. I remember clearly they often had drum memory units, PSU's and misc. computer bits. I was never into old computers until the past several years. I still have an old mid-80's catalog that I uncovered while moving earlier this year. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rcini at msn.com Sun Dec 6 15:00:28 1998 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? Message-ID: <000901be215c$287337e0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Does anyone have the 1/83 issue of Byte Magazine? In it is part 3 of an article by Steve Ciarcia about the MPX-16 PC-compatible SBC. I have parts 1 and 2, so I need the third. Thanks! [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From dogas at leading.net Sun Dec 6 15:14:17 1998 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: system info request Message-ID: <01be215d$61eab740$ecc962cf@devlaptop> >> p.s. Anyone have the opcode listing for a 8048? > >There is a useful web site, >http://gruffle.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/cards.html That site was worth repeating for the benifit of this list... Thanks, Tony. - Mike: dogas@leading.net From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 6 15:53:56 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboards & mice (was Re: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT)) In-Reply-To: <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> (message from Frank McConnell on 05 Dec 1998 22:11:40 -0800) References: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <19981206215356.28206.qmail@brouhaha.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Looks can be deceiving. That might be an HP-HIL connector -- does it Speaking of which, I need an HP-HIL mouse for use with my 16500A logic analyzer, and I'd also like to get an HP-HIL keyboard to try with it (I'm not sure it supports a keyboard). Anyone got extras? If so, let me know what you want for them. Thanks! Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 6 17:15:17 1998 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche Message-ID: While this might be considered more than a little off topic, I don't think so, since a lot of us have classic computer documentation in the form of MicroFiche. Does anyone know of a method of scanning this stuff into a computer, or any idea as to what resolution of a scanner such a project would require? I've thought a 35mm slide scanner would work well, but I don't believe they are constructed in such a manner that you could scan the fiche without destroying it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun Dec 6 16:15:37 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards Message-ID: <19981206.163209.159.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Wow! WHat a blast from the past! I drooled over their catalog when I was a teenager . . . I haven't been able to locate them, either . . . Jeff On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:13:21 -0500 (EST) Stephen Dauphin writes: >On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> Fair Radio sales has (in their last cat.) 3 parallel keyboards for >US$10, >> "Cheap" because "the IBM PC standard killed the market for them". >> They are at: www2.wcoil.com/~fairadio > >On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some >sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering ^^^^^^ >if >someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns > >up nothing. > > > -- Stephen Dauphin > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 19:49:36 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: 8048 WAS Re: system info request In-Reply-To: References: <01be20d5$093a6f60$f8c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206194936.38977bea@intellistar.net> At 06:17 PM 12/6/98 +0000, you wrote: >> p.s. Anyone have the opcode listing for a 8048? Why don't you go to the source? intel.com . I don't know if they have Op codes listed but they have all the technical info posted. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 19:51:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <01be216b$d729a300$538ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206195149.4837cb1a@intellistar.net> I have some HP HP-HIL keyboards and mice. IF you're sure that's what you need. If it uses HP-HIL, your machine should have one or two sockets with a single dot next to one and two dots next to the other. Joe At 02:57 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >Any idea where to get these any of these HIL devices? > >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Duell >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:59 AM >Subject: Re: OT HP vectra networking >> >>It's probably an HP-HIL (Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link IIRC) >>connector. This was an HP interface used for keyboards, mice, >>touchscreens, digitising tablets, security dongles, etc. You can >>daisy-chain several devices off the same connector. >> >>-tony >> >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 19:53:06 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboards & mice (was Re: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT)) In-Reply-To: <19981206215356.28206.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206195306.48276956@intellistar.net> Eric, Yes, I have a few extras. Joe At 09:53 PM 12/6/98 -0000, you wrote: >Frank McConnell wrote: >> Looks can be deceiving. That might be an HP-HIL connector -- does it > >Speaking of which, I need an HP-HIL mouse for use with my 16500A logic >analyzer, and I'd also like to get an HP-HIL keyboard to try with it (I'm >not sure it supports a keyboard). > >Anyone got extras? If so, let me know what you want for them. > >Thanks! >Eric > From ai705 at osfn.org Sun Dec 6 18:19:41 1998 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I've thought a 35mm slide scanner would work well, but I don't believe they > are constructed in such a manner that you could scan the fiche without > destroying it. I don't know the answer, but I have some thoughts. There are now flatbed scanners with a separate slide/picture scan "tray" that pops out the front like a CD tray. Whether it is large enough for the fiche, I can't say. Does that stuff come in standard sizes? There is also an Artec ScanRom 4E, a miniature tray scanner (parallel port & Windows) for stuff like 4" x 6" drugstore photos. DPI is your biggest problem. Neither of these solutions exceeds 600 or 800 dpi, while with dedicated 35mm scanners, that number is supposedly the high 1,000 to the middle 2,000 per inch. Are we talking jpegs/pdfs or ocr? How low a dpi can one go? Keeping in mind that everything aimed at consumers seems to reward routine scanning at excessive dpi, one could probably live with 200 dpi, if desperate, perhaps less. Assuming that the fiche corresponds to a standard sheet of paper, then it is possible that a true scanner resolution of 600 or 800 dpi will net 75 dpi for the finished product. Not so hot but might be workable. I could suggest optically blowing it up via a photgraphic enlarger and then scanning the enlargement, but there is still the problem of cutting to fit and the whole process would be time consuming. What about projecting it from the microfiche reader (either directly or using the screen) into something like a camcorder and then capturing as stills via a live feed? I assume there is a legitimate commercial way of scanning microfiche, but I suspect it requires a significant outlay of money. -- Stephen Dauphin From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 6 17:57:48 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards In-Reply-To: Stephen Dauphin's message of Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:13:21 -0500 (EST) References: Message-ID: <199812062357.PAA28908@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Stephen Dauphin writes: > On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some > sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering if > someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns > up nothing. Here's info from one of their 1988 catalogs: John J. Meshna Jr., Inc. 19 Allerton Street Lynn, MA 01904 Tel: (617) 595-2275 -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 6 18:14:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: 8048 WAS Re: system info request In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981206194936.38977bea@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 6, 98 07:49:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/44866fd4/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 6 19:15:18 1998 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Neither of these solutions exceeds 600 or 800 dpi, while with dedicated >35mm scanners, that number is supposedly the high 1,000 to the middle >2,000 per inch. I believe the standard slide scanner resolution is about 2700dpi, while the averave flatbed scanner still doesn't seem to be much above 600dpi, and the ones with resolutions around 1200dpi are $2500-3000 while the slide scanners are only $1000-2000. Note, I'm talking optical resolution here, not interpolated. Interpolated is basically some software trickery, which would be useless in something like this. >Are we talking jpegs/pdfs or ocr? How low a dpi can one go? Keeping in I'd not really considered a file format, it wouldn't be JPEG though, as I don't like the format. >mind that everything aimed at consumers seems to reward routine scanning >at excessive dpi, one could probably live with 200 dpi, if desperate, A final output dpi of 150 to 200 would be fine, the problem is, a 8.5x11" piece of paper is REALLY small when it's on MicroFiche, so you'd need to scan it in at something like 2700dpi in order to get that. I just pulled a sheet out and stuck it in my scanner, each page is about a quarter inch square, and at 300dpi you can only read the section title pages. I'm not even sure 2700dpi would cut it. At 300dpi individual lines are pixels, if that good, I suspect it's actually several lines per pixel, but I don't have the fiche reader set up. A quick calculation shows that a quarter inch sqare scanned in at 2700dpi would only equal about 61-79dpi That's readable on screen, but it probably wouldn't be printable. Another reason not to use JPEG, when you've got that little detail, you can't afford to loose any! >perhaps less. Assuming that the fiche corresponds to a standard sheet of >paper, then it is possible that a true scanner resolution of 600 or 800 >dpi will net 75 dpi for the finished product. Not so hot but might be >workable. The sheet I was looking at has 208 pages on it, in a 13x16 grid, it's about 4x6" in size. >I could suggest optically blowing it up via a photgraphic enlarger and >then scanning the enlargement, but there is still the problem of cutting >to fit and the whole process would be time consuming. Ouch, that would be expensive, even doing my own developing, which I actually have the equipment to do. I doubt it would be possible to project the image directly onto the scanner. Hmmm.... >What about projecting it from the microfiche reader (either directly or >using the screen) into something like a camcorder and then capturing as >stills via a live feed? To great of a loss of detail, even with a high quality view, fiche isn't that easy to read. >I assume there is a legitimate commercial way of scanning microfiche, but >I suspect it requires a significant outlay of money. I think so, I looked into what it would cost to get a reader with a built in printer a couple months ago, turns out they cost about $5000.00, and most places charge at least twenty-five cents a per page for copies. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From wpe101 at banet.net Sun Dec 6 19:34:34 1998 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche References: Message-ID: <366B30AA.7716C457@banet.net> Zane, Check out www.digest.net/bmw/archive/v2/msg00985.html It appears this person is doing, or trying to do a similar task, may be of some help (I hope!). Will "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > While this might be considered more than a little off topic, I don't think > so, since a lot of us have classic computer documentation in the form of > MicroFiche. Does anyone know of a method of scanning this stuff into a > computer, or any idea as to what resolution of a scanner such a project > would require? > > I've thought a 35mm slide scanner would work well, but I don't believe they > are constructed in such a manner that you could scan the fiche without > destroying it. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Dec 6 19:49:54 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Keyboards Message-ID: <199812070149.RAA26493@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 01:13 PM 12/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >On a related note, wasn't there a electronics surplus dealer of some >sort, perhaps based in Massachusetts, called "Meshna"? I'm wondering if >someone knows whether they are still in business. Any web search turns >up nothing. > > > -- Stephen Dauphin Several years ago I looked for Meshna without luck. They had computer boards (transistor, TTL, etc and parts for a vector graphics terminal, Sanders IIRC. I think I had bought in the mid 70's a computer cassette deck, new in the box packed with foam cutouts from them. This has long vanished as well. I did find a similar company, B and F (Peabody, MA) thay still exists, www.BNFE.com. -Dave From mmcmanus at direct.ca Sun Dec 6 20:45:56 1998 From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (M McManus) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? Message-ID: <001901be218b$b75f4f00$968d42d8@mmcmanus> -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 1:11 PM Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? >Does anyone have the 1/83 issue of Byte Magazine? In it is part 3 of an >article by Steve Ciarcia about the MPX-16 PC-compatible SBC. I have parts 1 >and 2, so I need the third. > > Thanks! > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> The local library has Byte on micrfiche. If you live in the Vancouver Area, you can get a printout or just read it. It is at the Surrey library in Guilford. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Dec 6 21:18:09 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record In-Reply-To: <366AB731.28DDC9EA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote: > Hi John, > > Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but > it will give you an idea of what it sold for. > > http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633 The correct URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45456336 This is an incredible artifact. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Dec 6 21:20:14 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <366d46ee.73473088@insight> We installed a document imaging system at my office about a year ago; it has a Kodak double-sided paper scanner and a fiche scanner. The fiche scanner (admittedly low-budget compared to the $50K+ fully-automated scanner) is called a "ScreenScan". It's basically a standard fiche reader with what looks like the guts of a flatbed scanner mounted across the front. You insert a sheet of fiche, position and focus the page you want, and hit the "scan" button. It scans a linear image sensor array like the one in a flatbed scanner down the screen from top to bottom, at pretty much standard flatbed scanning speed. I think it's set up to do 200 or 300dpi; not the world's sharpest images, but most of this stuff is just for backup records of stuff that happened 20 years ago, so it's not critical that it be pretty - just readable. I wouldn't be surprised if you could rig up something like this pretty easily yourself; pick up one of the fiche viewers that they can't give away at most university and government auctions, get a cheap flatbed scanner (even pretty good new ones can be had for under $100), take the mechanism out of the case, and bolt it to the front of the fiche viewer. You'd have to remove or disable the light source, since the bulb in the fiche viewer provides the illumination. I don't think you'd even have to mess with the focal length much; the fiche viewers normally do a rear-projection on frosted glass, and the scanner is set up to focus on a sheet of paper an inch or two away from the sensor, so with a spacer or two it should just work. That sounds like an interesting enough project that I might even build one if I had anything on fiche to scan. (I'm more interested in getting my 2,000-3,000 science fiction and computer books on CD-ROM, personally, but I have yet to come up with a non-destructive method that's reasonably fast. I could take them to work, use the hydraulic paper cutter in the print shop to cut the spines off all of them, and then jam them through the auto-feeder on the Kodak scanner, but I'd hate to. I've even gone as far as scanning all sides of a couple of books and using a 3D drawing program to make a rotatable, zoomable "virtual book" that I could put on a "virtual shelf" in a "virtual library" and use as an index to the scanned text, but there's still something about touching an actual paper book that I can't let go of...) On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:17 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >While this might be considered more than a little off topic, I don't think >so, since a lot of us have classic computer documentation in the form of >MicroFiche. Does anyone know of a method of scanning this stuff into a >computer, or any idea as to what resolution of a scanner such a project >would require? -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 23:34:09 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: FYI HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206233409.4f879cec@intellistar.net> FYI >To: "Jason Willgruber" >From: Joe >Subject: HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking >In-Reply-To: <01be219c$1fad04c0$bb8ea6d1@the-general> > >FYI > > >Jason, > >At 08:43 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi! >> >>The connector on my Vectra has two dots on the 'cable' of the plug depicted >>above the connector. I"m assuming that this means I can connect two devices >>to the one connector? > > No, the two dots tells you which end of the HP_HIL cable to plug into that port. They have nothing to do with how many things you can connect to the port. The two ends of the cables are different electrically but the same physically. You have to be sure and match the number of dots on the socket with the number of dots on the plug that you plug into it. Most of the HIL devices have two ports, one that goes back to the computer (maybe through another device) and the second port lets you hang even more HIL devices on the chain. Within limits, you can hang as many HP-HIL devices as you like on the port. I think the only limitaion is the amount of power that the computer can supply to the devices. Generally that means about 9 devices. However, most people only put a keyboard and mouse on there. >> >>What would you want for a mouse (someone offered me a keyboard for the cost >>of shipping if he can get it)? Do I need any special drivers to the mouse, >>or is it automatically recognized? > > It's recognized automaticly but some software won't use it. For example, there's only one piece of software for the HP 150 Touch Screen II that will use the mouse. I expect the newer HP-UX software will make more use of it. > > Joe >> >>ThAnX, >>-- >> -Jason Willgruber From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 6 23:42:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981206234249.3027c516@intellistar.net> At 05:15 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I think so, I looked into what it would cost to get a reader with a built >in printer a couple months ago, turns out they cost about $5000.00, and >most places charge at least twenty-five cents a per page for copies. Zane, I take my micro-fiche to the local public library. They keep back issues of news papers and magazines on micro-fiche so they have several readers there. I can view them for free and it only costs five cents per page to print them. Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 6 21:57:49 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche Message-ID: <00c301be2195$c2a6af20$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> I guess I'm being a bit whimsical. But I was intrigued and impressed with the recent NASA super-resolution images, generated from the Pathfinder pictures. The basic gist of it, as far as I understand it, is that given an unchanging target (the fiche, for example), you can build up a much higher resolution image than your scanner is capable of simply by making multiple scans and processing them together. Each will be offset from the others by fractions of a pixel (assuming you move the fiche ;). Software to combine multiple lores images into a highres image would be fairly straightforward. I guess the more scans you do, the better resolution you can obtain. Yes, its tedious - but should work. A -----Original Message----- From: Bill Richman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Scanning Fiche >We installed a document imaging system at my office about a year ago; it >has a Kodak double-sided paper scanner and a fiche scanner. The fiche >scanner (admittedly low-budget compared to the $50K+ fully-automated >scanner) is called a "ScreenScan". It's basically a standard fiche >reader with what looks like the guts of a flatbed scanner mounted across >the front. You insert a sheet of fiche, position and focus the page you >want, and hit the "scan" button. It scans a linear image sensor array >like the one in a flatbed scanner down the screen from top to bottom, at >pretty much standard flatbed scanning speed. I think it's set up to do >200 or 300dpi; not the world's sharpest images, but most of this stuff >is just for backup records of stuff that happened 20 years ago, so it's >not critical that it be pretty - just readable. I wouldn't be surprised >if you could rig up something like this pretty easily yourself; pick up >one of the fiche viewers that they can't give away at most university >and government auctions, get a cheap flatbed scanner (even pretty good >new ones can be had for under $100), take the mechanism out of the case, >and bolt it to the front of the fiche viewer. You'd have to remove or >disable the light source, since the bulb in the fiche viewer provides >the illumination. I don't think you'd even have to mess with the focal >length much; the fiche viewers normally do a rear-projection on frosted >glass, and the scanner is set up to focus on a sheet of paper an inch or >two away from the sensor, so with a spacer or two it should just work. >That sounds like an interesting enough project that I might even build >one if I had anything on fiche to scan. (I'm more interested in getting >my 2,000-3,000 science fiction and computer books on CD-ROM, personally, >but I have yet to come up with a non-destructive method that's >reasonably fast. I could take them to work, use the hydraulic paper >cutter in the print shop to cut the spines off all of them, and then jam >them through the auto-feeder on the Kodak scanner, but I'd hate to. >I've even gone as far as scanning all sides of a couple of books and >using a 3D drawing program to make a rotatable, zoomable "virtual book" >that I could put on a "virtual shelf" in a "virtual library" and use as >an index to the scanned text, but there's still something about touching >an actual paper book that I can't let go of...) > >On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:17 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>While this might be considered more than a little off topic, I don't think >>so, since a lot of us have classic computer documentation in the form of >>MicroFiche. Does anyone know of a method of scanning this stuff into a >>computer, or any idea as to what resolution of a scanner such a project >>would require? > > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer > Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 6 22:10:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <199812070410.AA05237@world.std.com> < The correct URL is: < < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45456336 what the frap is it? peersonally if people post the item a short description of 25 words or less would be nice. Its a pain for me to crank up the winsock just to see what the silly thing is. < This is an incredible artifact. Then mine must be worth a bomb. then there are the two floppy roms (sheet disks with audio casette data on them).\ Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Dec 6 22:19:23 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record In-Reply-To: <199812070410.AA05237@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > what the frap is it? > > peersonally if people post the item a short description of 25 words or > less would be nice. Its a pain for me to crank up the winsock just to > see what the silly thing is. For the Winsock impaired: " Ok all you ALTAIR Computer collectors, I bet you don't have this! There can't be too many of these around. This is an Stereo LP recorded in 1978. It is titled BITS.AND.BYTES*(BACH, BINARY + BOOLEAN), COMPUTER MUSIC BY THREE HARDWARE VOICES, EVEN-TEMPERED SCALE PLUS TRUE SCALES, TWENTY-FIVE PARAMETERS PER NOTE FOR EACH VOICE. The main hardware used was an ALTAIR 8800A Computer (INTEL 8080 chip). The software was an MITS Package I Monitor, enhanced with JAMON (written by Jerry A. Ford, MITS Program #117752). The synthesizers consist of 3 identical voice circuits (pictured on the front of the album cover). Total playing time is 25 minutes. Music consists of two full length numbers with the remainder of the music being shorter selections using various voicings and tempos which were created to debug subroutines and as exploratory music. There are 15 selections total. Sounds like an early MOOG synthesizer. Album and record are in excellent condition. Album still has the shrinkwrap on it (although has been opened). Record has very little noise. Picture above is a spliced scan of the back cover. It looks dirty and ripped due to reflection from the shrinkwrap." > < This is an incredible artifact. > > Then mine must be worth a bomb. then there are the two floppy roms > (sheet disks with audio casette data on them).\ I have the issues of Interface Age with the floppy rom still in them :) And yes, I'm sure you'd get at least lunch and gas money if you listed those on ebay. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 22:49:06 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981206234249.3027c516@intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: > I take my micro-fiche to the local public library. They keep back issues >of news papers and magazines on micro-fiche so they have several readers >there. I can view them for free and it only costs five cents per page to >print them. You're lucky! I think most of the libraries around here charge about fifty cents a page. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 6 22:55:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <366d46ee.73473088@insight> References: Message-ID: >not critical that it be pretty - just readable. I wouldn't be surprised >if you could rig up something like this pretty easily yourself; pick up >one of the fiche viewers that they can't give away at most university >and government auctions, get a cheap flatbed scanner (even pretty good >new ones can be had for under $100), take the mechanism out of the case, >and bolt it to the front of the fiche viewer. You'd have to remove or >disable the light source, since the bulb in the fiche viewer provides >the illumination. I don't think you'd even have to mess with the focal >length much; the fiche viewers normally do a rear-projection on frosted >glass, and the scanner is set up to focus on a sheet of paper an inch or >two away from the sensor, so with a spacer or two it should just work. >That sounds like an interesting enough project that I might even build >one if I had anything on fiche to scan. (I'm more interested in getting Hmmm, I think I'll be keeping my eyes open for some stuff when I'm out junking, this sounds a little bit interesting. If it wasn't for the transparancy adapter on my current scanner, which I've got for antique 3-D glass slides, I'd consider using that scanner, and replacing it with a newer one. One advantage of building a setup like this, is you wouldn't care about colour quality, just sharpness, and could buy the scanner accordingly, probably saving a little (one can dream, right). I just might know where I can get a semi-decent fiche reader for this. Hmmm..... Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From red at bears.org Sun Dec 6 22:57:06 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <00c301be2195$c2a6af20$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > I guess the more scans you do, the better resolution you can obtain. Yes, > its tedious - but should work. It works. I wrote software a year or so ago to improve the quality of images captured from an NTSC source (like from a video camera). It works this way, and is best for neutralizing colour artifacts, although it also improves the general picture quality a fair amount in doing so. Basically for a still, live source, you can oversample a video "frame" a number of times and since the colour artifacting is essentially random, by compositing them you can eventually get an output image that converges to clean. I did this so to facilitate photographic inventorying of my collection. I didn't relish the thought of developing and scanning hundreds of photographs. Currently it only works for SGI-format .rgb images, as this is what is produced by the tools I use. If somebody else thinks this could actually be a wortwhile piece of software I could be persuaded to extend it to work on .tiff or other image formats and distribute it. My big problem is it makes the optical flaws in the lens and CCD of my Hi8 camera all too apparent. (: ok r. From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 6 23:17:40 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:57 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record References: <199812070410.AA05237@world.std.com> Message-ID: <366B64F4.BDA9E8F@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > > < The correct URL is: > < > < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45456336 > > what the frap is it? Well, considering that message was actually *intended* to be a private message to John :). Apparently it is a vinyl type record with recordings of music made on the Altair computer. It closed somewhere around $130 which I thought was impressive. > > peersonally if people post the item a short description of 25 words or > less would be nice. Its a pain for me to crank up the winsock just to > see what the silly thing is. > > < This is an incredible artifact. > > Then mine must be worth a bomb. then there are the two floppy roms > (sheet disks with audio casette data on them).\ > > Allison From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 6 23:41:54 1998 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche Message-ID: <86630f41.366b6aa2@aol.com> Zane; I just got in the whse two reader printers (dry toner) that print on plain paper. I buy and sell microfilm equipment also. If you wanted to rig a parts scanner to a Microfilm reader I have both parts too. However I would recommend a service bureau that could turn the Microfilm into CDs. You should get high quality documents that way. This should not be too expensive, particularly if you have a lot of pages. Archiving technology has pretty much moved to CDs. Service companies that used to film documents nowadays image documents to CDs. I have one of these companies interested in purchasing one of the reader printers I got in. I expect to be talking with him tomorrow. I will ask about getting MF data into the computer, costs and turnaround. Paxton From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 01:42:25 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: Message-ID: <19981207074225.31200.qmail@brouhaha.com> > >Are we talking jpegs/pdfs or ocr? How low a dpi can one go? Keeping in > > I'd not really considered a file format, it wouldn't be JPEG though, as I > don't like the format. JPEG is only good for continuous-tone images such as photographs. It does horrible things to text and line art, since that's not what it was designed for. For typical manuals (lots of text and line art, few photographs), GIF is (barely) tolerable, but doesn't really compress that well. ITU-T Group 4 fax format (rec T.6) compresses quite well (file sizes typically less than half of equivalent GIF), and can be encapsulated in either TIFF Class F or PDF files. JBIG is even better for this stuff, getting file sizes 10 to 20 percent smaller than G4 fax, but viewers are relatively uncommon. I generally use PDF. Although a few whiners claim otherwise, it appears to me that PDF viewers are now available on almost all contemporary platforms. Most systems that don't run Acrobat Viewer can run Ghostscript and Ghostview or xpdf. I've put PDF files of some old DECsystem-10 manuals on http://www.36bit.org/ I scanned the pages under Linux, then used the capture module of Adobe Acrobat Exchange 3.01 under Windows 95(*) to convert the TIFF files into a PDF. In the process it OCR'd the files, and the result is stored as "invisible" text in the PDF file. That makes it possible to search the file, even though it displays as a scanned image. The OCR wasn't good enough to allow for archiving the documents as text only; it would take far too much time to clean them up. Cheers, Eric * I hope Adobe releases the full Acrobat Exchange for Linux; I'd gladly buy it again. They have a Solaris version, so a Linux port should be trivial. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Dec 7 01:47:11 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <19981207074225.31200.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 07, 1998 07:42:25 AM Message-ID: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> *snip* > I generally use PDF. Although a few whiners claim otherwise, it appears > to me that PDF viewers are now available on almost all contemporary > platforms. Most systems that don't run Acrobat Viewer can run Ghostscript > and Ghostview or xpdf. *snip* does anyone know whether adobe has documented the PDF format? the first person to write an apple2GS version is going to win friends and influence people, IMHO. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 7 08:09:11 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <86630f41.366b6aa2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981207080911.307f9d58@intellistar.net> Paxton, I'd like to know what it costs also. I expect micro-fiche machines will get harder and harder to find and more expense. Joe At 12:41 AM 12/7/98 EST, you wrote: >Zane; > >I just got in the whse two reader printers (dry toner) that print on plain >paper. I buy and sell microfilm equipment also. If you wanted to rig a parts >scanner to a Microfilm reader I have both parts too. > >However I would recommend a service bureau that could turn the Microfilm into >CDs. You should get high quality documents that way. This should not be too >expensive, particularly if you have a lot of pages. Archiving technology has >pretty much moved to CDs. Service companies that used to film documents >nowadays image documents to CDs. I have one of these companies interested in >purchasing one of the reader printers I got in. I expect to be talking with >him tomorrow. I will ask about getting MF data into the computer, costs and >turnaround. > >Paxton > From brett at xnet.com Mon Dec 7 07:01:01 1998 From: brett at xnet.com (Brett Crapser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Jim Strickland wrote: > does anyone know whether adobe has documented the PDF format? Yup - it's on the web site. And it's is in - PDF! (Wow! 8-) Kinda circular don't ya think? BC From erd at infinet.com Mon Dec 7 08:57:45 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Replacing 6550s In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Dec 6, 98 09:45:51 am Message-ID: <199812071457.JAA24098@user2.infinet.com> > > > > On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > Where would you put ROM expansion? There's no empty sockets in this model > PET. For the few products that existed back then, the vendors supplied a sidecar cartridge/board. It had a lead to go around the back of the PET to the 2nd cassette port. I have a crude line drawing in the manual of one of my PET products, somewhere. My first PET was a 32K, 9" white, upgrade ROM (3.0), so I stuffed the firmware in the available sockets. -ethan From bill at chipware.com Mon Dec 7 09:10:59 1998 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: IBM 5161 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301be21f3$cc2b1e60$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > I haven't seen one of these in a *long* time. They were rare even back > when the PC was king. Somebody closer to VA should go for it: Yup, they were rare because the cable is a bear. It constantly came apart at the connector. I have one, including the black felt covered foam pad so it can sit on top of (or under) the pc without rattling too much. From bill at chipware.com Mon Dec 7 09:31:04 1998 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <366A9D06.8D984213@cnct.com> Message-ID: <000401be21f6$9a3ea220$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > Some people have all the luck -- I've never seen (or heard) a > noise-emitting diode. Lots of smoke-emitting diodes and > light-emitting resistors in the past, however. And of course the > occasional glop-emitting capacitor. Take a 3.5 volt top hat LED. Spread the leads to the proper width and apply (I would recommend using a pair of pliers) to a fresh 9 volt transistor radio battery. I got shards of red plastic embedded in my fingers that way once. From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Mon Dec 7 09:54:12 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: >The main hardware used was an ALTAIR 8800A Computer >(INTEL 8080 chip). The software was an MITS Package >I Monitor, enhanced with JAMON (written by Jerry A. Ford, >MITS Program #117752). The synthesizers consist of 3 >identical voice circuits (pictured on the front of the >album cover). This is an Altair controlled hardware synth I take it? Now *MY* Altair Synth (pardon the ego!) was all done in software, with a simple 8-bit d/a converter on an i/o port. It used 256 bytes of a waveform (fundamental sin(x) plus some harmonics) that were stepped thru by up to 4 pointers at various rates and added up to get 4 part harmony. Took a lot of instruction cycle counting to get the timing just right and was worked up to where one could, with a lot of tedious data entry, type in a Bach invention (#8 - was on 'Switched on Bach') and have it play perfectly. Now, being a 2Mhz machine it sang bass and tenor mostly. Spent many a long night getting one together for a school software contest and the prof. gave the prize to a lousy serial auto-baud detector (probably because HE suggested it). So we learned that demo's need BIG speakers to make an impression :)) A# = (12th root of 2) * 440Hz B = " * A# Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 7 11:31:17 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale References: <000401be21f6$9a3ea220$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Message-ID: <366C10E5.52B58BB0@cnct.com> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > Some people have all the luck -- I've never seen (or heard) a > > noise-emitting diode. Lots of smoke-emitting diodes and > > light-emitting resistors in the past, however. And of course the > > occasional glop-emitting capacitor. > > Take a 3.5 volt top hat LED. Spread the leads to the proper > width and apply (I would recommend using a pair of pliers) > to a fresh 9 volt transistor radio battery. I got shards of > red plastic embedded in my fingers that way once. Ah, a shrapnel-emitting diode. Safety glasses and gloves would seem to be recommended. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 11:42:57 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <366C10E5.52B58BB0@cnct.com> Message-ID: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [shrapnel-emitting diode] What about the Heat Emitting IC? Oh, and I've heard a Noise Emitting CRT - Some moron dropped a monitor on it's back and neatly cracked the CRT neck (and thus shorted all the pins together) and didn't tell anyone about it. Teacher turns it on and it makes smoke and loud disturbing-type noises. So, she calls me in to go fix it. I take monitor back to workshop, open back of it, (Yes, I know how dangerous this is, I just wanted to see what was making that noise.), then shoved the power cord into a powerstrip with a breaker on it, stood a good 3 feet away and let it have juice. I then stared in horror at the light show. We let it sit for about 2 hours, then brought the teacher in to see it. She sez, "Oh, well, can you fix it?" There's also the gum-emitting belt (I got to clean one of these out of an NCR 260 terminal yesterday) and the crap-emitting battery (Seen on our 286es and an increasing number of 386es), and the sound-emitting transformer. ------- From hansp at digiweb.com Sat Dec 5 00:47:37 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT video jokes was DG Aviion video References: Message-ID: <3668D709.4FF89996@digiweb.com> Tony Duell wrote: > The VGA-colour-swapper is another. This is a simple adapter with a DE15 > plug on one side and a DE15 socket on the other. All the pins are > straight through, apart from 1,2,3 which are wired 1->2, 2->3, 3->1. The > result is that it swaps the colours round. It's actually a useful piece > of test gear to discover quickly if a missing colour is due to the > monitor or video card. But it's the sort of thing to plug into a luser's > computer after he's spent the morning getting the colours 'right'... Reminds me of the story of the final tests being done for NTSC certification in the States (at RCA 1940's?). Apparently all was going vey well and the final tests involved a bowl of fruit. Some joker painted the banana blue causing much frustration on the part of the technicians. _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 7 13:31:49 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files? In-Reply-To: <3668AF7D.258EF998@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199812071832.SAA06766@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> > > And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from..... > StarOffice is a commercial product, though Caldera provides a demo > copy with their Linux distribution, and the demo can be downloaded > from Caldera and other sites. It doesn't seem to read the latest > Excel and Word formats, Microsoft keeps "upgrading" the file format > with each release (not that I see any features added) but of course > keeping the same extension on the filenames. It's prety up to date and the best of all: IT IS FREE (for personal use). Since one month ago, not only the Linux but also the WinDOOFs and OS/2 and Solaris versions are free for personal use - The software is available for download on several sites - or you order a 79 Mark (~50 USD) package direkt from them (here you get a manual, some additional fonts and clip arts and 30 days of installation support). Most of it's revenue, Stardivision generates from compaies and professional users, and the part is dramaticly increasing. so they just decided that it's better to focus the sales to professionals. But instead of droping private/home users they rather offer their package for free - the idea is to give a good product and charge only for service if needed - think of all the Linux distributions from Suse to Red Hat - same idea ... In fact, at Home I switched to StarOffice - it#s compatible enough to cooperate with MS Word & Co but runs also under OS/2 and Linux. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From hansp at digiweb.com Mon Dec 7 12:49:06 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) References: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <366C2322.9304FC61@digiweb.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > > "Jason Willgruber" writes: > > -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a > > plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected > > to some sort of network hub). > > Looks can be deceiving. That might be an HP-HIL connector -- does it > have a picture of the corresponding plug with one or two dots on the > cable, or maybe just the one or two dots? If so, it's HIL, and is > there so you can hook up a Vectra HIL keyboard (as shipped with the > real original Vectras that don't have alphabet soup after the word > "Vectra") or an HIL mouse or an HIL monitor w/touchscreen. That all sounds plausible, but I do not think that HP Vectras ever used the HIL standard. When I get back to Grenoble (where the Vectras were designed) next week I will root around and see what I can dig up on this machine. Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From hansp at digiweb.com Mon Dec 7 12:51:34 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking References: Message-ID: <366C23B6.B9489D1E@digiweb.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 roblwill@usaor.net wrote: > > > -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a > > > plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected > > > to some sort of network hub). > > > > As far as I am aware, that's a weirdo keyboard connector. There's a > > matching one in the monitor and the keyboard. > > It's probably an HP-HIL (Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link IIRC) > connector. This was an HP interface used for keyboards, mice, > touchscreens, digitising tablets, security dongles, etc. You can > daisy-chain several devices off the same connector. Hmm, sounds like USB, things don't change do they ;-) _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 7 13:02:26 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <366C23B6.B9489D1E@digiweb.com> from "Hans B Pufal" at Dec 7, 98 07:51:34 pm Message-ID: <199812071902.LAA10916@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 771 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/56653ed3/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 7 14:04:14 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: References: <366d46ee.73473088@insight> Message-ID: <199812071905.TAA09357@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> >not critical that it be pretty - just readable. I wouldn't be surprised >if you could rig up something like this pretty easily yourself; pick up >one of the fiche viewers that they can't give away at most university >and government auctions, get a cheap flatbed scanner (even pretty good >new ones can be had for under $100), take the mechanism out of the case, >and bolt it to the front of the fiche viewer. You'd have to remove or >disable the light source, since the bulb in the fiche viewer provides >the illumination. I don't think you'd even have to mess with the focal >length much; the fiche viewers normally do a rear-projection on frosted >glass, and the scanner is set up to focus on a sheet of paper an inch or >two away from the sensor, so with a spacer or two it should just work. >That sounds like an interesting enough project that I might even build >one if I had anything on fiche to scan. (I'm more interested in getting You could do it even without changing the scanner at all. take two mirrors and build a 'hat' for the fiche - the light will pass the fice at one side, get reflected by the mirrors and be passed back, now thru the fiche. This works quite will since in most scanners the light runs some one or two cm in front of the scannerline. Of course the 'hat' has to be adjusted to this angle. It works quite well for pictures, but for a fiche you might need a _real_ high resolution scanner. If the fiche document is made from ordinary 'typewriter' papers or drawings (like most of my 1960s/70s mainframe fiches) the resolution should be better than 1200 dpi to get an idea of the text. If small parts are to be viewed, >3000 is needed. One advantage of fiches is still the _real_ high resolution :) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From sieler at allegro.com Mon Dec 7 13:08:34 1998 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 memory diagnostic floppy Message-ID: <199812071908.LAA26029@bart.allegro.com> Hi, Ebay item #47353951 is two 8" floppies. If you look closely at one of them in the picture, it appears to be a diagnostic floppy. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=47353951 I emailed the seller, and he said: > That floppy has a label that reads: "EMC CORPORATION, MEMORY > DIAGNOSTICS, FOR VAX 11/780 AND 11/785, 053-240-001 REV A" > > Hard to say what might be on the other floppy, it looks like the label > that had been adhered has popped off long ago. > > We've long since decommissioned all our 780s and 785s, and a month or so > ago we were doing a "cleanup" of the shelves in the back room, and I > picked up a few "nostalgic" items like these floppies, but my wife has > said there's no room left for computer collectibles. > > If you could actually use the software, that would be great! I'm not interested in it, but I thought someone here might be. -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 13:28:26 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: On topic: Serious static problem References: Message-ID: <366C2C59.C002958@bigfoot.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > Yes, throwing sparks does sort of defeat the purpose. Never saw one > > do that, admittedly the only place I ever paid attention was the > > flight-line back when I did airplanes for a living. > > Not really, since the primary purpose is to drain any static charge prior > to rigging out the tank filler hose and having a spark at the tank filler > pipe. > That's the purpose of the ground reel connected to the tie down/ground point in the ramp, prior to hooking up the aircraft to the truck. It drains both and puts them both (truck and plane) on the same potential. When you're talking about JP4 through JP10 fuels then you are talking about a much bigger mess with a spark than just touching an S100 machine while in the minivan - the ultimate screwup actually. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Dec 7 13:32:48 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <199812071902.LAA10916@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > ::> It's probably an HP-HIL (Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link IIRC) > ::> connector. This was an HP interface used for keyboards, mice, > ::> touchscreens, digitising tablets, security dongles, etc. You can > ::> daisy-chain several devices off the same connector. > :: > ::Hmm, sounds like USB, things don't change do they ;-) > > What about the Commodore serial bus? :-) I got another Atari 800 over the weekend and decided to hook it up to play Fort Apocalypse which I got in a batch of disks with the computer (I've been wanting to play that damn game since the eighth grade but never got a chance because all the other kids were computer hogs). I was struck at how simple it was to hook everything up. Plug power into computer. Plus power into disk drive. Plug cable between disk drive and computer. Stick disk in drive and turn power on. Instant boot. USB? Pfeh! Everything new in the computer realm was invented long ago. Engineers just re-discover good designs. Heck, the mouse turns 30 this week! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98] From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 13:32:16 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> <366a5c90.2890285@smtp.site1.csi.com> <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> <366c1963.51236353@smtp.site1.csi.com> Message-ID: <366C2D3E.9D9CB8FA@bigfoot.com> Did you try Com1, Com2, Com3, Com4? There is a serial port int he machine as well and you may accidentally set them both to the same port as well. Take a deep breath and look back over the config info with the setup disk. You may also have a DOA modem, that's a slight chance. Richard A. Hall wrote: > No go Russ, I tried the ATA both from Dos and from Procomm Plus. I also tries > "+++" to no avail. Any other Ideas? > > On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:00:58 -0600, you wrote: > > >You may try sending the string ECHO ATA >COMx (x is the comport number) at the > >DOS prompt to see if it wakes up and makes a hellacious scream (that will quit in > >a few seconds). If so then the modem will stay asleep until an intialization > >string is sent to it. > > From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 7 13:40:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT: Re: On topic: Serious static problem In-Reply-To: <366C2C59.C002958@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > That's the purpose of the ground reel connected to the tie down/ground point in > the ramp, prior to hooking up the aircraft to the truck. It drains both and puts > them both (truck and plane) on the same potential. When you're talking about JP4 > through JP10 fuels then you are talking about a much bigger mess with a spark > than just touching an S100 machine while in the minivan - the ultimate screwup > actually. Well, certainly vastly worse than the S100 machine problem. But in the cosmic order of things, JPxx is pretty safe stuff compared to 100 Octane AvGas with all the aromatics they used to put in that stuff for easy winter starting! - don From hhacker at gte.net Mon Dec 7 13:49:12 1998 From: hhacker at gte.net (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale Message-ID: <02e601be221a$aaa819b0$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> Come on you guys! This is now something emitting something, ad nauseum. I must admit, though, that I liked the concept of the shrapnel-emitting diode. I, too, have seen some of these! William R. Buckley From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 13:53:56 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's Message-ID: <366C3253.3C30499D@bigfoot.com> Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. From pechter at monmouth.com Mon Dec 7 14:05:29 1998 From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <366C3253.3C30499D@bigfoot.com> from Russ Blakeman at "Dec 7, 98 01:53:56 pm" Message-ID: <199812072005.PAA00722@monmouth.com> > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > > > The easiest stuff to get Linux up on are standard AT or PCI bus 386(minimum) or higher machines. Microchanel can be done. (I did a PS/2 model 80 and 8590 at IBM -- but they required mixing just the right hardware pieces). My clone 386SX/25 ran Linux (SLS 0.99.13 through Slackware -->1.2) with no problems. FreeBSD also worked with all the non-microchanel stuff. Bill From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Mon Dec 7 14:09:03 1998 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Ken Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981207150903.0094c260@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> At 07:49 PM 12/7/98 +0100, you wrote: >Frank McConnell wrote: >> >> "Jason Willgruber" writes: >> > -Networking software compatible with the internal networking card (there"s a >> > plug next to the keyboard connector that looks like it wants to be connected >> > to some sort of network hub). >> >> Looks can be deceiving. That might be an HP-HIL connector -- does it >> have a picture of the corresponding plug with one or two dots on the >> cable, or maybe just the one or two dots? If so, it's HIL, and is >> there so you can hook up a Vectra HIL keyboard (as shipped with the >> real original Vectras that don't have alphabet soup after the word >> "Vectra") or an HIL mouse or an HIL monitor w/touchscreen. > >That all sounds plausible, but I do not think that HP Vectras ever used >the HIL standard. When I get back to Grenoble (where the Vectras were >designed) next week I will root around and see what I can dig up on this >machine. > >Regards > >_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- >Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > > I have had several older HP vectras here that have had HP-HPIL interfaces, including an HP Vectra CS (8086) and a Vectra RS-20 (386). The HP-HPIL interface was generally supplied as an 8-bit card that plugged directly into the ISA bus. Regards, Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960 From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 14:07:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! Message-ID: <13409934080.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> THIS IS INTERESTING. IM ON FROOM A PRINTING TERMINAL. NO LOWERCASE LETTERS, 00 BAUD AND AN ACCOUSTIC COUPLER. FUN FUNFUN . ------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 14:07:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Meeses (was Re: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Everything new in the computer realm was invented long ago. Engineers > just re-discover good designs. Heck, the mouse turns 30 this week! Am I the only one who has never had enough space on my desk for a mouse? (I hate meeses to pieces.) I've used the IBM trackpoint pretty much exclusively ever since they came out with it. I've had mice on the brain recently: What was the first PC mouse, and how was it used? I think it was Mouse Systems PC Mouse used with PC Paint in 1982, even before the Apple Lisa hit the streets. What was the first microcomputer mouse? I think it might be the same as above, but microprocessor-based workstations like the Sun-1 might be earlier. The first pointing device? I'm pretty sure it was the light pen used with the SAGE in the 1950's. How about an exhaustive (?) list of pointing devices? Light pen, touch screen, track ball, touch pad, keyboard, pen + digitizer, mouse pen, trackpoint (eraser head), knee pointer, eye tracker, head tracker, ring mouse, isopoint (tootsie roll), space ball (3-d trackball), joystick, power glove, steering wheel. More? -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 14:13:09 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <366C3253.3C30499D@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: Just about any 386+ box with 4+MB RAM will do, but I haven't tried MCA boxes, so I'm not possitve about those. For anything less, try Minix or ELKS. -- Doug On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Mon Dec 7 14:15:05 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <366C3253.3C30499D@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > Look over www.linux.org, some good info there. Many of these machines are only supported by special ports of Linux (like MCA ps/2's) and they may not run the most current packages by RedHat/Debian/Slackware/etc. Certainly XWindows support will be lacking on anything less than a 386. RAM is also a major concern. Linux is *comparatively* fast; remember that it is more complete and robust than WinNT/95/98, but you still need the hardware to run it. One thing you might consider is putting Minix on some of those older, slow machines and trying to market them as research curiosities to CS students. It should work fine on a 286 with >40meg HD... Cheers, Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 14:35:43 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: PDF format (was Re: Scanning Fiche) In-Reply-To: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> (message from Jim Strickland on Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:47:11 -0700 (MST)) References: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <19981207203543.1853.qmail@brouhaha.com> > does anyone know whether adobe has documented the PDF format? Yes. In addition to a published book (which documents 1.0 or 1.1, I don't recall), the up-to-date PDF spec is available (in PDF format, of course) on Adobe's web site. > the first > person to write an apple2GS version is going to win friends and influence > people, IMHO. :) It should be possible to port Ghostscript to the IIgs. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 14:34:40 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's References: <199812072005.PAA00722@monmouth.com> Message-ID: <366C3BDF.5F1E4C3C@bigfoot.com> Bill Pechter wrote: > > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm > > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > The easiest stuff to get Linux up on are standard AT or PCI bus > 386(minimum) or higher machines. Microchanel can be done. > (I did a PS/2 model 80 and 8590 at IBM -- but they required mixing > just the right hardware pieces). > > My clone 386SX/25 ran Linux (SLS 0.99.13 through Slackware -->1.2) with > no problems. FreeBSD also worked with all the non-microchanel stuff. > > Bill Thanks Bill. I guess the 5 units I have that also show a Unix jumper on the motherboard should be very useful machines for this purpose. Now you have me wanting to try one of the dozen PS/2 80's I have for a linux box. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Dec 7 14:35:33 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409934080.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 7, 98 12:07:58 pm Message-ID: <199812072035.MAA30883@saul10.u.washington.edu> > THIS IS INTERESTING. IM ON FROOM A PRINTING TERMINAL. > NO LOWERCASE LETTERS, 00 BAUD AND AN ACCOUSTIC COUPLER. > FUN FUNFUN WHAT, NO APOSTROPHE? ON SOME OLDER UNIX SYSTEMS, IF YOU LOG IN USING AN ALL-CAPS NAME, THEY GO INTO "PRINTING TERMINAL" MODE. (WHEN THEY ASK FOR YOUR PASSWORD, THEY HAVE ALREADY SWITCHED MODES.) THEN, LETTERS WILL BE ENTERED IN LOWERCASE EXCEPT WHEN PRECEEDED BY A BACKSLASH. THERE MAY BE A SIMILAR TECHNIQUE ON YOUR (DEC?) SYSTEM. NOTE THAT ALL "ACTUAL" BACKSLASHES (THOSE SENT TO THE APPLICATION, RATHER THAN BEING PROCESSED BY THE TERMINAL DRIVER) MUST BE DOUBLED. WARNING -- MANY NEWER UNIX SYSTEMS APPEAR TO SUPPORT THIS MODE BUT ACTUALLY DON'T (BACKSLASHES WON'T WORK). TRY WITH A REGULAR TERMINAL FIRST. TELL US IF YOUR TERMINAL WILL RECEIVE LOWERCASE LETTERS EVEN THOUGH IT WON'T SEND THEM -- because writing in all caps makes my eyes hurt. (THE END OF THE LAST SENTENCE WAS IN LOWERCASE). -- DEREK From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Mon Dec 7 14:35:15 1998 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Compaq SLT/286 In-Reply-To: <366C2D3E.9D9CB8FA@bigfoot.com> References: <981123112426.2a2002ef@trailing-edge.com> <365996DB.A7BDA86C@rain.org> <366629f7.50319838@smtp.site1.csi.com> <3666F737.3D1FEB35@bigfoot.com> <366a5c90.2890285@smtp.site1.csi.com> <366A0179.4796CBD2@bigfoot.com> <366c1963.51236353@smtp.site1.csi.com> <366C2D3E.9D9CB8FA@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <366f3976.12766317@smtp.site1.csi.com> Russ, I verified, using the diagnostics on the setup disk, that the modem is on com 2 and irq 3. The modem works flawlessly if I use setup to cause the modem to be on at startup. If the modem is set to "off" at startup nothing but the diagnostics program will turn it on. Procomm Plus locks up in this condition. I suspect that there was originally a program called "modem" or something similar. A command line like "modem on" was probably required. The diagnostics program, however, is able to wake the modem up for testing. Thanks, Richard Hall On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:32:16 -0600, you wrote: >Did you try Com1, Com2, Com3, Com4? There is a serial port int he machine as well and >you may accidentally set them both to the same port as well. Take a deep breath and >look back over the config info with the setup disk. You may also have a DOA modem, >that's a slight chance. > >Richard A. Hall wrote: > >> No go Russ, I tried the ATA both from Dos and from Procomm Plus. I also tries >> "+++" to no avail. Any other Ideas? >> >> On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:00:58 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >You may try sending the string ECHO ATA >COMx (x is the comport number) at the >> >DOS prompt to see if it wakes up and makes a hellacious scream (that will quit in >> >a few seconds). If so then the modem will stay asleep until an intialization >> >string is sent to it. >> > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 14:37:25 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's References: Message-ID: <366C3C84.72020313@bigfoot.com> Never heard of ELKS and will have to look into it. This whole Linux, Minix, etc thing is one of my "to do later" items and I've not had time (or room) to get into it yet. Once I can get rid of this ton of equipment I guess I can start digging into it heavier. Thanks again Doug. Doug Yowza wrote: > Just about any 386+ box with 4+MB RAM will do, but I haven't tried MCA > boxes, so I'm not possitve about those. > > For anything less, try Minix or ELKS. > > -- Doug > > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm > > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 14:41:16 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409934080.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <13409940143.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [00 BAUD?] I MEANT 300. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 14:43:41 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <199812072035.MAA30883@saul10.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13409940582.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [IS THIS IN LOWERCASE] IT SHOWED UP INN SMALLER CAPS. APPARENTLY THE SHIFT KEY works opposite of what im used too> if I hold down shift I get lowercase. ------- From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 14:47:34 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <19981207204734.1927.qmail@brouhaha.com> > [shrapnel-emitting diode] > > What about the Heat Emitting IC? Those are entirely too common, in my experience. The most bizarre thing I've seen along these lines, however, was the light-emitting EPROM. One day I noticed that: 1) My Apple ][ was acting somewhat flaky. 2) The 80-column video card, a Videx Videoterm, was getting rather warmer than usual. 3) There was light coming from the video card. I put the card on an extender, and determined that the source of light was the firmware EPROM! There was an arc between two of the bond wires. The EPROM was a 2708 EPROM, which you will recall used three power supplies, +5, +12, and -5V. Amazingly, the EPROM was still completely functional, as the 80-column card was working fine. But it was pulling the Apple's 12V supply down to about 8V, which was causing other things to flake out. I replaced the EPROM, and unfortunately I didn't think to save the arcing one. Just at a guess, I'd imagine that the spectra of light emitted by the arc probably included enough short-wave UV that the EPROM would eventually have erased itself. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Dec 7 14:52:23 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409940582.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 7, 98 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: <199812072052.MAA22794@saul7.u.washington.edu> > [IS THIS IN LOWERCASE] > > IT SHOWED UP INN SMALLER CAPS. APPARENTLY THE SHIFT KEY works opposite of > what im used too> if I hold down shift I get lowercase. Yes, except the period turned into an angle bracket. -- Derek From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 7 15:02:29 1998 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409940582.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 7, 98 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: <199812072102.NAA10858@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/a6d9813a/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Dec 7 15:01:54 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <199812072052.MAA22794@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > [IS THIS IN LOWERCASE] > > > > IT SHOWED UP INN SMALLER CAPS. APPARENTLY THE SHIFT KEY works opposite of > > what im used too> if I hold down shift I get lowercase. > > Yes, except the period turned into an angle bracket. > > -- Derek > On several of my older printing terminals, the Caps Lock key simply reverses the figures/letters sense of the whole keyboard, instead of the more modern selective capslock of our more Modern, Dynamic, Ultra-Advanced day. It's 10 o'clock: do *you* know what state your capslock is in? Cheers John From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 15:05:13 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: breaking monitors (was Re: old(ish) computers for sale) In-Reply-To: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <19981207210513.2071.qmail@brouhaha.com> Daniel A. Seagraves writes: > Oh, and I've heard a Noise Emitting CRT - Some moron dropped a monitor on > it's back and neatly cracked the CRT neck Ten years ago I managed to crack the neck of the CRT in a Macintosh SE computer. Some of the motherboard connectors are fairly difficult to disengage, and the direction you have to yank on them lead directly to the neck. Five years and two moves ago, I was carrying a Sony KV25DXR television (a beautiful piece, the sibling of the first XBR) down the stairs by myself. The stairs were narrow, and had two 90-degree turns. [Don't try this at home. Professional driver on closed track. Odds of winning may vary.] I got the set all the way down the stairs, out the gate, and within a few feet of the car, when the power cord slipped out of my hand and tripped me. I dropped the TV and fell on it. [Hmmm... not such a professional driver after all!] Luckily for me, the tube didn't implode, or I probably would have been seriously injured. The pastic casing of the TV broke in several places, and I heard a hissing noise for about ten seconds. Having heard that noise before from the Macintosh SE, I immediately concluded that the neck of the CRT had cracked. Since it was near the car anyhow, and there wasn't a dumpster nearby, I loaded the TV into the car, and unloaded it into the garage of the new house. A few days later I decided to plug in the TV just to see what would happen. Imagine my astonishment when the thing actually worked! To this day I don't know what the hissing sound was. Friends have suggested that perhaps *I* made the sound, but I don't think so. I still have the TV, and it still works. As well as it did before I dropped it, anyhow. It had some minor problems ever since the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989; I think a surge when the power was restored must have zapped its poor little microprocessor. If only the picture wasn't so good, I'd throw the thing away, but I guess it's destined to be an albatross about my neck until the end of my days. Or at least until the FCC makes the broadcasters abandon analog NTSC. This was the same move in which I tore a flap of skin from the middle finger of my right hand, and got to see first-hand what tendons look like, but that's another story. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 13:25:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Dec 7, 98 00:47:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/49eee38d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 13:35:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale In-Reply-To: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 7, 98 09:42:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/166a29a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 13:22:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: FYI HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981206233409.4f879cec@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 6, 98 11:34:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/4ff63edf/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Dec 7 15:15:48 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale References: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> <19981207204734.1927.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <366C4583.EAA76686@bigfoot.com> Yeah those LED's with a 9v or bigger battery are always good to keep in your back pack for starting campfires, you just have to steer clear while they shed the outer jacket (g) Eric Smith wrote: > > [shrapnel-emitting diode] > > > > What about the Heat Emitting IC? > > Those are entirely too common, in my experience. > > The most bizarre thing I've seen along these lines, however, > was the light-emitting EPROM. > > One day I noticed that: > > 1) My Apple ][ was acting somewhat flaky. > > 2) The 80-column video card, a Videx Videoterm, was getting > rather warmer than usual. > > 3) There was light coming from the video card. > > I put the card on an extender, and determined that the > source of light was the firmware EPROM! There was an arc > between two of the bond wires. The EPROM was a 2708 EPROM, > which you will recall used three power supplies, +5, +12, > and -5V. > > Amazingly, the EPROM was still completely functional, > as the 80-column card was working fine. But it was > pulling the Apple's 12V supply down to about 8V, which > was causing other things to flake out. > > I replaced the EPROM, and unfortunately I didn't think to > save the arcing one. > > Just at a guess, I'd imagine that the spectra of light > emitted by the arc probably included enough short-wave > UV that the EPROM would eventually have erased itself. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 15:20:40 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <199812072052.MAA22794@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13409947315.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> That's because I cheated and pushed the shift-lock key. [Don't worry, I'm back on a VDU now.] ------- From afritz at delphid.ml.org Mon Dec 7 16:19:51 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into > > looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with > > what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 > > AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm 286 or less: ELKS or another Linux-8086 package. Never used these, so I don't know how complete they are. 386sx or higher: standard Linux distributions are fine. Most require at least 4mb RAM (I've squeezed Slackware into 2.5mb, but it wasn't pretty). > > looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as > > cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > > > > Any suggestions greatly appreciated. > > > > Look over www.linux.org, some good info there. Many of these machines are > only supported by special ports of Linux (like MCA ps/2's) and they may The MCA support has just started picking up steam again. Alan Cox has started having fun with it, which usually means it will work quite nicely! MCA support will finally be at decent capacity in mainstream kernels starting with 2.2.x (as of yet no released). However, I don't know of any standard Linux distribution that currently has built-in MCA support. Although, I think I saw an mcascsi.s boot disk in Slackware 3.6. There's a web page floating around that links to hacked-up MCA-capable boot disks for Red Hat, etc. I've got many PS/2 55SX's (386sx-16, MCA+ESDI only) running Linux. They run suprisingly well (good use for all those boxes and boxes of MCA token ring and ethernet cards it seems _everyone_ has laying around :). af --- Adam Fritzler { afritz@delphid.ml.org , afritz@iname.com} http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ "Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were." -- Chicago Reader, 15 Oct 1982 From hansp at digiweb.com Mon Dec 7 16:04:28 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: old(ish) computers for sale References: <13409907680.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> <19981207204734.1927.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <366C50EC.E6EBF42E@digiweb.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Just at a guess, I'd imagine that the spectra of light > emitted by the arc probably included enough short-wave > UV that the EPROM would eventually have erased itself. Ahh the very first EEPROM ? ;-) _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Dec 7 11:17:06 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199812072211.RAA13574@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:19:51 -0700 (MST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Adam Fritzler > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Linux Q's > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The MCA support has just started picking up steam again. Alan Cox has > started having fun with it, which usually means it will work quite nicely! > MCA support will finally be at decent capacity in mainstream kernels > starting with 2.2.x (as of yet no released). However, I don't know of any > standard Linux distribution that currently has built-in MCA support. > Although, I think I saw an mcascsi.s boot disk in Slackware 3.6. There's > a web page floating around that links to hacked-up MCA-capable boot disks > for Red Hat, etc. > > I've got many PS/2 55SX's (386sx-16, MCA+ESDI only) running Linux. They > run suprisingly well (good use for all those boxes and boxes of MCA token > ring and ethernet cards it seems _everyone_ has laying around :). > > af If you find an website called MCA linux (has moved to different site) http://www.dgmicro.com/mca/ the current linux kernel in it is 2.0.35. That person on that website prefers no development kernels that other dirburations had are always development kernel which I confirmed that when I d/l'ed both types. That "MCA linux" worked on my P75 (8573-401)! > > --- > Adam Fritzler > { afritz@delphid.ml.org , afritz@iname.com} > http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ > "Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were." > -- Chicago Reader, 15 Oct 1982 > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From kurtkilg at geocities.com Mon Dec 7 16:04:52 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:58 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking Message-ID: <00b901be222e$f23ee240$41021a26@maxeskin> That's the way it is with most inexpensive home micros (I think the Commodore has one of the more complicated ways of doing it, since you need to know the drive ID). Most of them are truly out-of-the box. And then modern engineers came upon a working idea and decided to update it in such a way that it uses all that power new computers have more effectively. You know, I was impressed today that an MS Draw image that opened instantly for me to modify in a Word 2.0 document on a 386 took about 30 seconds in Word 97 on a Pentium-200. >disk in drive and turn power on. Instant boot. USB? Pfeh! I dearly hope this doesn't stay this way. Why is it that one of the biggest headline-makers in computers, Linux, is 30 years old? And why can't they finally get object-oriented systems right? They've been trying to for decades, and there still isn't a good version of OLE/OpenDoc that is _really_ versatile. Flame away. >Everything new in the computer realm was invented long ago. Engineers >just re-discover good designs. Heck, the mouse turns 30 this week! > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 12/07/98] > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 16:27:56 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981207150903.0094c260@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> (message from Ken Marshall on Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:09:03 -0500) References: <3.0.32.19981207150903.0094c260@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <19981207222756.2560.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have had several older HP vectras here that have had HP-HPIL interfaces, > including an HP Vectra CS (8086) and a Vectra RS-20 (386). The HP-HPIL > interface was generally supplied as an 8-bit card that plugged directly > into the ISA bus. If you're talking about HP-IL, that is *entirely* different from HP-HIL. There's nothing called HP-HPIL. As far as I know, there was never an ISA plug-in card to do HP-HIL. The cards for HP-IL are not too rare. From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Dec 7 16:24:23 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: Hans B Pufal's message of Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:49:06 +0100 References: <01be20de$4e832a40$LocalHost@THEGENERAL> <199812060611.WAA25172@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <366C2322.9304FC61@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <199812072224.OAA11704@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Hans B Pufal wrote: > That all sounds plausible, but I do not think that HP Vectras ever used > the HIL standard. When I get back to Grenoble (where the Vectras were > designed) next week I will root around and see what I can dig up on this > machine. I'd like to know what you find, my recollection comes from having to support 10-20 of the original Vectras and somewhat more ES and ES/12s where I worked through most of the late 1980s. (Hey, I thought they were OK for PC-compatibles.) I'm not sure how "standard" the HIL support on the Vectra really was. But the original Vectra had the connector, and its keyboard had two, and you could plug a 46060A mouse into the keyboard. ISTR you could put a touchscreen in the 375[34]1 monitors and hook that up with the HIL connectors on the back of the monitor but we never bothered with that (we bought Touchscreen IIs without the touchscreen too). The original Vectra keyboard isn't the same HIL keyboard as used on the 9000 line -- it has a hybrid layout that looks sort of like the original PC/AT keyboard crossed with the HP150 keyboard, so it has PC F1-F10 in two columns down the left, HP f1-f8 across the top, and a numeric/cursor pad on the right. The Vectra ES and ES/12 have the PC-standard 5-pin DIN connector for the keyboard (which has the PS/2 layout with F1-F12 across the top and Ctrl in the wrong place), but also have an HIL connector next to the keyboard connector, and I think I remember using 46060A mice with those too. -Frank McConnell From amirault at epix.net Mon Dec 7 16:42:24 1998 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! References: <199812072052.MAA22794@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <366C59D0.DB0F33DD@epix.net> Hi, Do you have a CAPS LOCK key on your keyboard? If yes, try pressing it before using the shift key. I hope this helps you. What type of computer are you using? John Amirault D. Peschel wrote: > > [IS THIS IN LOWERCASE] > > > > IT SHOWED UP INN SMALLER CAPS. APPARENTLY THE SHIFT KEY works opposite of > > what im used too> if I hold down shift I get lowercase. > > Yes, except the period turned into an angle bracket. > > -- Derek From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Dec 7 16:57:56 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <366C59D0.DB0F33DD@epix.net> Message-ID: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It was an NCR 260. Printing terminal, not a computer. Talks 300/110 baud, and has EIA and DAA ports. (DAA= Bell's Data Access Arrangement? What was this?) ------- From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sun Dec 6 18:11:22 1998 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: x86 OS's Message-ID: <000101be2236$3ef255c0$6e65a8c2@gareth.knight2> Thanks for all of your replies. I have tried a number of these already. Zane H. Healy wrote: >QNX - There is a free demo version, about all you can do is surf the web >with it > though. The demo boots from floppy. It's very good for what it does. The QNX Neutrino kernel is to form the basis of AmigaOS 5. Check out http://www.amiga.com if you don't believe me. Unfortunately the demo needs 8Mb of continuous memory, on top of the 640k. The machine I'm buying only has a total of 8Mb. >GEOS - Runs on top of DOS, the company currently supporting it, had been > providing some sort of demo version for it. It looks really great > actually, and come to think of it I believe my above mentioned 486 has > a copy on it somewhere (probably still on a Linux partition) that I > downloaded to try a year or so ago. I'd forgotten about it. I've got this running on my Pentium 2. If I can get some cheap 386 I'd install this use them as simple word processors. Perhaps also sticking a Pentium logo and "designed for Windows" on the monitor just to fool everyone ;) > Unfortunatly they no longer support the really low end systems, I can't > remember if they still support the 286 or not. Runs on 286 according to the system specs. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Dec 7 17:16:33 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > It was an NCR 260. Printing terminal, not a computer. > Talks 300/110 baud, and has EIA and DAA ports. (DAA= Bell's Data Access Arrangement? What was this?) > ------- Ooooooo... the 'DAA' B^} (Sherman, set the Wayback machine...) In the days before the 'Carterphone' decision, it was illegal to connect any privately owned equipment to the telephone 'network' without the use of a 'Data Access Arrangement' which could only be leased (at first, purchaseable later for mucho $$$) from your 'friendly' local telco. A nice black box to which you could connect 'approved' equipment, and the DAA would (supposedly) protect the telephone network from any indescretions that your equipment might cause. Following the 'Carterphone' decision, the specifications for DAA like devices had to be made available to manufacturers of telephony equipment (witness the little grey box that came with the original Hayes S-100 modem card), and the rest as they say, is history... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 7 17:20:07 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > It was an NCR 260. Printing terminal, not a computer. > Talks 300/110 baud, and has EIA and DAA ports. (DAA= Bell's Data > Access Arrangement? What was this?) > ------- That dates back to the days when it was illegal(?) to directly connect any non-Bell equipment to the phone lines. The DAA served to "protect" the lines from defective or poorly designed third party hardware. (It also served to fatten Ma Bell's purse!) - don From pechter at monmouth.com Mon Dec 7 17:28:44 1998 From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <366C3BDF.5F1E4C3C@bigfoot.com> from Russ Blakeman at "Dec 7, 98 02:34:40 pm" Message-ID: <199812072328.SAA00935@monmouth.com> > > Thanks Bill. I guess the 5 units I have that also show a Unix jumper on the > motherboard should be very useful machines for this purpose. Now you have me > wanting to try one of the dozen PS/2 80's I have for a linux box. > OK... some IBM PS/2 type want to tell me what the Unix jumper was for. (I figure AIX on PS/2 may have wanted a different drive translation?...) Bill From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Dec 7 17:38:11 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 7, 98 03:20:07 pm Message-ID: <199812072338.PAA29119@saul10.u.washington.edu> Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > Talks 300/110 baud, and has EIA and DAA ports. (DAA= Bell's Data > > Access Arrangement? What was this?) > That dates back to the days when it was illegal(?) to directly connect > any non-Bell equipment to the phone lines. The DAA served to "protect" > the lines from defective or poorly designed third party hardware. (It > also served to fatten Ma Bell's purse!) Yes, but did the DAA actually do anything in terms of signals? In other words, what were the specs, and in hindsight, could people have reverse- engineered the DAA? -- Derek From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Mon Dec 7 17:38:36 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: <00b901be222e$f23ee240$41021a26@maxeskin> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > I dearly hope this doesn't stay this way. Why is it that one of the biggest > headline-makers in computers, Linux, is 30 years old? And why can't they What??? I think I missed something here [bangs thick head on desk]. Did you just say that Linux is 30 years old or do I have barbecue sauce in my ears? Is this some kind of metaphorical comparison of Linux to something else? Did you mean just mean Unix in general? Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Dec 7 17:55:55 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Dec 07, 1998 03:38:36 PM Message-ID: <199812072355.QAA04587@calico.litterbox.com> > > I dearly hope this doesn't stay this way. Why is it that one of the biggest > > headline-makers in computers, Linux, is 30 years old? And why can't they I'm betting he meant Linus Torvaldis, the guy who wrote Linux. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 17:58:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: breaking monitors (was Re: old(ish) computers for sale) In-Reply-To: <19981207210513.2071.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 7, 98 09:05:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1193 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/6b27f337/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 18:55:34 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's Message-ID: <199812080055.AA17132@world.std.com> < Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into < looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with < what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 < AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm < looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as < cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. For the 8086 and 286 class machines look into MINIX V2.0 and for the 386 and up most linux versions (they may not support specific hardware like some oddball video and disks though). Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 18:55:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <199812080055.AA17211@world.std.com> < Apparently it is a vinyl type record with recordings of music made on th < Altair computer. It closed somewhere around $130 which I thought was < impressive. Now I know what mine is worth. ;) I have a few others I collected back then. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 18:55:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <199812080055.AA17288@world.std.com> < Now *MY* Altair Synth (pardon the ego!) was all done in < software, with a simple 8-bit d/a converter on an i/o < port. It used 256 bytes of a waveform (fundamental sin(x) < plus some harmonics) that were stepped thru by up to there was a simplfied version by processor tech and a few others with a less sophisticated D/A (used R, 2R ladders) that were able to do that. The whole of it is Malcom Wright's _Alphanumeric music with Amplitude control_ C1975 article. I have a copy of this and have done mucic with it and voicing was possible. Allison From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Mon Dec 7 19:10:12 1998 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record In-Reply-To: <199812080055.AA17288@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > < Now *MY* Altair Synth (pardon the ego!) was all done in > < software, with a simple 8-bit d/a converter on an i/o > > there was a simplfied version by processor tech and a few others with > a less sophisticated D/A (used R, 2R ladders) that were able to do that. > Exactely - basically a buffer and resistor network. The algorithm was probably lifted from a Byte article on sound. > The whole of it is Malcom Wright's _Alphanumeric music with Amplitude > control_ C1975 article. I have a copy of this and have done mucic with Where was this published? Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From cmcmanis at freegate.com Mon Dec 7 19:14:59 1998 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Classic Micro Music (was RE: ebay Altair Music Record) In-Reply-To: <199812080055.AA17288@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19981207171041.00b82720@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 07:55 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Allison wrote: >The whole of it is Malcom Wright's _Alphanumeric music with Amplitude >control_ C1975 article. I have a copy of this and have done mucic with >it and voicing was possible. This was a good article, however I believe the definitive followup was Hal Chamberlins article in Byte on using the 6502 to generate music. He expanded that into a book called "Musical Applications of Microprocessors" (published in 1981, 1985 (see its on-topic!)) This book coveres *ALL* the techniques people used to generate music on micros. (I almost bought a KIM-1 because of this, but got most working on my Z80) --Chuck From Watzman at ibm.net Mon Dec 7 19:14:40 1998 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? Message-ID: <01BE221F.7826ECA0@slip-32-100-187-80.oh.us.ibm.net> I have your magazine, and I copied your article (rather long, about 20 pages). Now if you will tell me where to send it, it will be yours. Barry Watzman Watzman@ibm.net ---------- From: M McManus [SMTP:mmcmanus@direct.ca] Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 9:46 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 1:11 PM Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag? >Does anyone have the 1/83 issue of Byte Magazine? In it is part 3 of an >article by Steve Ciarcia about the MPX-16 PC-compatible SBC. I have parts 1 >and 2, so I need the third. > > Thanks! > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> The local library has Byte on micrfiche. If you live in the Vancouver Area, you can get a printout or just read it. It is at the Surrey library in Guilford. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 18:20:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: <19981207222756.2560.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 7, 98 10:27:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981208/43b6db31/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 18:25:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 7, 98 02:57:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981208/70995d2a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 18:28:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <199812072338.PAA29119@saul10.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Dec 7, 98 03:38:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 696 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981208/5d5ec181/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 7 20:08:07 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <199812080055.AA17132@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into >< looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with >< what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170 >< AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm >< looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as >< cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here. > >For the 8086 and 286 class machines look into MINIX V2.0 and for the 386 >and up most linux versions (they may not support specific hardware >like some oddball video and disks though). Question, isn't Minix on the x86 platform still a commercial product? I know the versions for stuff such as the Atari I believe are now free, but I thought you still had to buy the x86 version. If I'm mistaken, where can you get it :^) I believe there is finally MicroChannel support for the PS/2's, but I've never even powered on the one PS/2 I've got. One of these days I'll probably throw an old version of OS/2 on it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 7 20:11:45 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 memory diagnostic floppy In-Reply-To: <199812071908.LAA26029@bart.allegro.com> Message-ID: >Ebay item #47353951 is two 8" floppies. If you look closely at >one of them in the picture, it appears to be a diagnostic floppy. Good GRIEF! He has the starting bid is set at $8.50, and wants the winner to pay $3 for shipping. You can buy them new for that! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 7 20:14:39 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <199812070747.AAA01364@calico.litterbox.com> References: <19981207074225.31200.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 07, 1998 07:42:25 AM Message-ID: >does anyone know whether adobe has documented the PDF format? the first >person >to write an apple2GS version is going to win friends and influence people, >IMHO. :) Not to bash the //gs, but I'm not sure it has the horsepower to view PDF files. I've seen how long it can take on a 486, and even on something like my 604e/180, it can take quite a while. It isn't exactly a fast format. A starting place would probably be to look at the source code for 'xpdf'. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 20:16:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Question, isn't Minix on the x86 platform still a commercial product? I > know the versions for stuff such as the Atari I believe are now free, but I > thought you still had to buy the x86 version. > > If I'm mistaken, where can you get it :^) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 7 20:13:45 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 7, 98 06:08:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981208/849342c6/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 7 20:36:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 7, 98 06:08:07 pm Message-ID: >Well, you can always buy the latest edition of 'Operating Systems, Design >and Implementation'. That's Tannenbaum's book on Minix (and other OSs), >and it includes Minix 2.0 (I think) on CD-ROM. It's not _that_ expensive. Yes, but if you've got an older copy of the book, it becomes a bit to expensive for my tastes, since there are lots of other books that are less expensive that I'd rather have. If I really wanted to run Minix, I could get a version for one of the other platforms, as I've seen them available for FTP, just haven't seen the x86 version. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kurtkilg at geocities.com Mon Dec 7 20:37:49 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 memory diagnostic floppy In-Reply-To: <199812080232.VAA00217@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 healyzh@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Good GRIEF! He has the starting bid is set at $8.50, and wants the winner > to pay $3 for shipping. You can buy them new for that! Now I know what to do with all those boxes of 5 1/4" disks I've got...I'm rich! Seriously, though, if someone here catches what that auction closes at, let me know. > Zane ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor From kurtkilg at geocities.com Mon Dec 7 20:39:06 1998 From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 A_Finney@wfi-inc.com wrote: > What??? I think I missed something here [bangs thick head on desk]. Did > you just say that Linux is 30 years old or do I have barbecue sauce in my > ears? Is this some kind of metaphorical comparison of Linux to something > else? Did you mean just mean Unix in general? I mean UNIX in general. I consider Linux and UNIX to be similar enough to say that what I am running right now is as directly descended from something that ran 30 years ago on that PDP in Bell Labs (IIRC) as any other version of UNIX. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Dec 7 20:43:10 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Original PET Keys References: <199812070802.AAA27982@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <366C923C.3598ABA6@goldrush.com> > From: Doug Spence > Subject: Re: PET Video (was: Replacing 6550s) & 128 > > > ::"chiclet keyboard" != "rubber keys", IMHO. I'm talking about the cute > > > ::multicoloured keyboard with the small plastic keys that are arranged in a > > > ::grid pattern. I call that a chiclet keyboard. > > > > > > Hmm, okay. But multicoloured? Which colours? Arranged how? > > > > Ummm they were all metallic tops, Red, Gold, Blue, Silver... Check out my > > PET page: > > Gold? Your PETs have gold keys? I have two shades of blue. And my red > keys look significantly less metallic than the others. I couldn't tell if > they were 'metallic' or if I was looking at the nail polish my brother > coated the keys with to keep the printing from rubbing off. Maybe I'm mistaken about the gold ones, (that PET is currently back in storage)... Fortunately I was given a spare set of by a friend who serviced PETs and also once worked at Commodore (he also wrote the original PET uers guide and some of the diagnostics, I had him sign my users guide) but so far the original set on the PET haven worn all that much yet (the previous owner was very good to that machine). 0001010010110101010101000101000111000110010010 > From: Doug Spence > Subject: Re: Replacing 6550s > > > > Actually, IIRC my small-keyboard PET uses little rubber cups. But I > > > suppose there may be springs as well. The keyboard didn't work when I got > > > it, so I had to disassemble it and wipe the circuit board clean. I never > > > disassembled it beyond pulling the circuit board off. > > > > No rubber cups. Rubber cups or domes always in my experience give some > > sort of mechanical hysteresis when you press them. All PET keyboards I've > > used are smooth until they hit the stop. Small keyboard had little black > > rubber pads set into the plastic mouldings of the keys. > > I think there are rubber cups of some sort, but they may be soft > protective things rather than what provides the 'bounce'. I just tried > both PET keyboards and compared the feel to other keyboards, and you're > right, they are smooth. Potential 'rubber cup' keyboards: CoCo 1, Amiga > 3000. Weird undefinable keyboard that mushes/springs at the bottom: Atari > 130XE. :) The Calculator PET cups (which my keyboard has) are not all that deep, so you would not feel the 'mechanical hysteresis' you were describing, they act as the 'spring' I am sure. The large keyboard PETs used springs but later some VIC-20s had cups again... strange... :/ > Where would you put ROM expansion? There's no empty sockets in this model > PET. With the ExpandaPET board you have I think 4 KIM bus slots, I have a couple cards for one, one is an EPROM board and the othersome sort of floppy controller (they probabably worked together) > > > Why do POKE and PEEK fail there? Was that done on purpose or is it just > > > the result of something lame like using a signed value to represent > > > addresses? > > > > No, it's software. It was a feature that was supposed to prevent > > inquisitive geeks disassembling the BASIC ROM between $C000 and (I think) > > $E7FF. The OS ROMs, above $F000, were peekable, though, as was the I/O > > space in the E block. You could of course peek and poke the screen, $8000 > > - $83E7 inclusive. > > An inquisitive geek wouldn't be stopped long by that! Bill should have > known better. :) All you had to do was poke in an ML byte transfer routine... That 'bug' was corrected in the upgrade ROMs (good move on Commodre's part, by opening access and info on the system more people devloped for it.) as well as in the realase of the monitor program. Other companies who tried such stingy tactics (Atari early on and most certainly TI) were really hurt by it. > > I'll try and dig out my RAM expansion board, and work out what it did. > > Meanwhile, have fun! > > No fun until all my assignments and exams are done. :/ From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Mon Dec 7 20:49:39 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 A_Finney@wfi-inc.com wrote: > > What??? I think I missed something here [bangs thick head on desk]. Did > > you just say that Linux is 30 years old or do I have barbecue sauce in my > > ears? Is this some kind of metaphorical comparison of Linux to something > > else? Did you mean just mean Unix in general? > > I mean UNIX in general. I consider Linux and UNIX to be similar enough to > say that what I am running right now is as directly descended from > something that ran 30 years ago on that PDP in Bell Labs (IIRC) as any > other version of UNIX. I know it's kind of a petty, splitting-hairs issue to users, but Linux isn't Unix. It just looks and acts like it.... Aaron C. Finney Systems Administrator WFI Incorporated ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant." From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 20:55:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > I know it's kind of a petty, splitting-hairs issue to users, but Linux > isn't Unix. It just looks and acts like it.... If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and is source code compatible with a duck.... -- Doug From rcini at msn.com Mon Dec 7 20:49:23 1998 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next Message-ID: <00d301be2256$6a9c1ba0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Tonight I finished posing the Altair 8800b manual. Enjoy! The next thing on the plate is the Aim65 Users Manual, and then an index to the Byte Magazines that I have. After that, probably a load of PDP-11 manuals. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 7 21:07:39 1998 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:38:59 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking In-Reply-To: (message from Doug Yowza on Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:55:56 -0600 (CST)) References: Message-ID: <19981208030739.4578.qmail@brouhaha.com> >> I know it's kind of a petty, splitting-hairs issue to users, but Linux >> isn't Unix. It just looks and acts like it.... > > If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and is source code compatible > with a duck.... So by that reasoning you would say that DR-DOS *IS* MS-DOS? Or that TurboDOS *IS* CP/M? I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. And to think that I derided Clinton for wanting the judge to provide a meaning for the word "is"... From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Dec 7 21:12:34 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: news on the c64 Message-ID: <199812080312.UAA05282@calico.litterbox.com> Some time ago I mentioned a commodore 64 I'd been given and that I'd used the mother board to experiment with washing the motherboard in the dishwasher with favorable results. Well, today I finally got the replacement keyboard from Creative Micro Designs (CMD) along with a cable to connect the thing to a composite monitor I got with the thing. 10 minutes of surgery and I have a functional c64 again. Celebrated by typing in the "Michael row your boat ashore" program in the manual. Whee. :) Scarey thing is the catalog they sent me, with all kinds of drives, a speedup system, hard disks, and so on. I think I need to get rid of this machine before it sucks more money out of me. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 21:15:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking In-Reply-To: <19981208030739.4578.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 8 Dec 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > > If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and is source code compatible > > with a duck.... > > So by that reasoning you would say that DR-DOS *IS* MS-DOS? > Or that TurboDOS *IS* CP/M? > > I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Whether brand-conscious consumers like it or not, Unix has become a generic name much like Xerox or Kleenex. Linux isa Unix isa OS isa software. SCO UnixWare isa Unix isa OS isa software. -- Doug From DaveyGF at aol.com Mon Dec 7 20:59:43 1998 From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: New Altair Computers website! Message-ID: Just finished the beta on my new website dedicated to Altair computers.. Check it out. I will be making several additions soon- including a complete archive of '97 and '98 classiccmp list server messages pertaining to altair subjects and a virtual museum. http://altaircomputers.org David daveygf@aol.com From amirault at epix.net Mon Dec 7 21:24:59 1998 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: IBM PCjr References: <199812072247.RAA16710@lima.epix.net> Message-ID: <366C9C0A.92A1315D@epix.net> > Hi, > I have one of the old IBM Edsels and I am currently trying to get the > TMC850jr SCSI card I have to get a CDROM to work on it. Can anyone give me > any > clues as to how to do this? Can it be done at all? > > I also have the combo cartridge V3.0 in this machine and upgraded the > harddrive from DOS 5.0 to DOS 6.22 and now I keep getting write errors when > I > try to install programs onto the harddrive. Any help here? > > Thanks everyone. > > John Amirault From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 21:22:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <199812080322.AA06946@world.std.com> < > The whole of it is Malcom Wright's _Alphanumeric music with Amplitude < > control_ C1975 article. I have a copy of this and have done mucic wit < < Where was this published? Peoples Computer Company, PCC was Doctor Dobbs and the articles were there and then published as a seperate thing. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 7 21:22:39 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Linux Q's Message-ID: <199812080322.AA07066@world.std.com> < Question, isn't Minix on the x86 platform still a commercial product? < know the versions for stuff such as the Atari I believe are now free, bu < thought you still had to buy the x86 version. Not really. It's a copyrighted, freely available for non commercial use if memory serves. You can get it sources and all off the net or by buying the book on OS Design and Implmentation with it's CDrom. The details are educational/personal use I think. I doubt it would be popular for commercial use except as maybe an embedded kernal. It's supposed to work on PS2/50z but when I tried it there was a floppy problem that kept getting in the way. I put it aside when a 386sx/16 came my way as it was a excellent MINIX platform. Allison From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Mon Dec 7 21:23:27 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: FW: BIG VAXen available Message-ID: <366d9b63.1938411328@smtp.jps.net> CLASSICCMP folk and Dan B., I found this on Usenet. Any takers? You'd need LOTS of room and (probably) lots of power, but this could be a neat addition to any collection. Read on... -=-=- -=-=- From: "Kent Rankin" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: What is a VAX 8350 fully loaded worth? Lines: 43 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <3aZa2.412$kr2.116146@news1.usit.net> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:59:43 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.24.75.116 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usit.net X-Trace: news1.usit.net 913071871 208.24.75.116 (Mon, 07 Dec 1998 18:04:31 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 18:04:31 EDT Organization: U. S. Internet, Inc. Path: blushng.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.usit.net!news1.usit.net!not-for-mail A friend of mine has a VAX 8350 that he picked up recently. It's quite a large setup, to say the least. I was wondering if someone could tell me what I should get(at least) for it for him, and what I could get for it. Here's what it has: VAX 8350 with 2 processors SA482 Storage array loaded with 3 RA82(6.22MB) drives A giant 200amp power conditioner that looks just like the VAX A TU81-Plus Tape drive Two DMB32-M things. I think that they are multiplexors Anyone know about them? Two LA120 printers. One DA model, and one AA model. A LA75 printer A VT420 terminal(JA model) Five DECServer200/DL Terminal Servers. Anyone know what the DL stands for? I think that is all that is included, but I could be wrong. I'm notreally sure as to what cards are in it(besides the TU81 Plus' interface). The box has absolutely TONS of packages from DEC on it with the licenses. The manuals are all there, and many of them have extras that are shrinkrapped. Many spare parts for the machine are new, and in DEC boxes, still wrapped. There are boxes and boxes of new manuals, to give you an idea. The machine was on maintenance until September of 1998. Plus, as an added bonus, it has the whole Y2k support package. I do know that all of the packages are very recent versions, and that OpenVMS 7.0 is loaded on it. It was used(until upgraded) with MANY terminals running off of it for basic business uses, and for calculating the lights(andtheir positions) needed in a stadium, and is in perfect condition. Anyhow, anyone have any ideas on the pricing? Perhaps a good outlet for me to sell it? Thanks in advance, Kent Rankin -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From ss at allegro.com Mon Dec 7 21:23:55 1998 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 memory diagnostic floppy In-Reply-To: <"v04011706b2923adeb868(a)(091)192.168.1.2(093)*"@MHS> Message-ID: Zane writes: > >Ebay item #47353951 is two 8" floppies. If you look closely at > >one of them in the picture, it appears to be a diagnostic floppy. > > Good GRIEF! He has the starting bid is set at $8.50, and wants > the winner to pay $3 for shipping. You can buy them new for that! True...but the interesting point to this thread is that one of the disks has a memory diagnostic ... *that* might be of use to some VAX collectors! SS From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 7 21:34:43 1998 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: news on the c64 In-Reply-To: <199812080312.UAA05282@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >ashore" program in the manual. Whee. :) Scarey thing is the catalog they >sent me, with all kinds of drives, a speedup system, hard disks, and so on. >I think I need to get rid of this machine before it sucks more money out >of me. Oh, come on now, just think about how much fun you could have surfing the net on a C-64 with a 20Mhz processor, 16Mb RAM, 2.88Mb floppy, 4Gb HD, CD-ROM, and a fast modem. I just wish they had a Ethernet card for them! I wonder how much of that hardware Lunix supports? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 7 21:36:43 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Linux Q's Message-ID: <30372598.366c9ecb@aol.com> i've found a web site where minix/ELKS can be obtained, but it was expected for one to have a functioning linux system to download and create the disk images. since i only have OS2/windont95 access, are there any other choices as far as downloading a copy to install on an xt? << < Question, isn't Minix on the x86 platform still a commercial product? < know the versions for stuff such as the Atari I believe are now free, bu < thought you still had to buy the x86 version. >> From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 7 21:53:29 1998 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Linux Q's In-Reply-To: <30372598.366c9ecb@aol.com> Message-ID: >i've found a web site where minix/ELKS can be obtained, but it was expected >for one to have a functioning linux system to download and create the disk >images. since i only have OS2/windont95 access, are there any other choices as >far as downloading a copy to install on an xt? If you're refering to standard UNIX disk images that are created using 'dd' you should be able to simply use RAWRITE.EXE Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 7 21:40:47 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: IBM PCjr Message-ID: <18d71538.366c9fbf@aol.com> a PCjr version of a scsi card? if so, that's certainly a rarity! there wont be much you can do with a cdrom on a jr unless you're reading your own cds. what kind of write errors are you getting? have you tried clean booting using F5? partition size <32meg? In a message dated 12/7/98 10:25:44 PM EST, amirault@epix.net writes: << > I have one of the old IBM Edsels and I am currently trying to get the > TMC850jr SCSI card I have to get a CDROM to work on it. Can anyone give me > any > clues as to how to do this? Can it be done at all? > > I also have the combo cartridge V3.0 in this machine and upgraded the > harddrive from DOS 5.0 to DOS 6.22 and now I keep getting write errors when > I > try to install programs onto the harddrive. Any help here? > > Thanks everyone. > > John Amirault >> From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 22:00:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next In-Reply-To: <00d301be2256$6a9c1ba0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > and then an index to the Byte Magazines that I have. Oh boy. I've had a back-burner BYTE index project that I moved forward by almost a millimeter last weekend. How far along are you on putting together an index? If you, or anybody else, wants to collaborate on a project like this, there's already several thousand BYTE's that have been indexed in BibTex format. I plan (OK, hope) to automate entry and searching of this and similar indices. Currently the coverage of material of interest to this group (like early BYTEs) is pretty thin. Check out Nelson H. F. Beebe's web site for a sense of what's been done so far: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/bibliographies.html -- Doug From DaveyGF at aol.com Mon Dec 7 21:44:55 1998 From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record Message-ID: <1283a10a.366ca0b7@aol.com> Does anyone on this list actually have the original PCC/Dr Dobbs issues from 1975? 1976? David From Watzman at ibm.net Mon Dec 7 22:08:48 1998 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next Message-ID: <01BE2236.F49D9920@slip-32-100-187-10.oh.us.ibm.net> Myself and another individual are trying to find the source of a magazine article which describes a modification to the IMSAI CP-A front panel. The title of the article is "The Slow-Stepping Debugger" by Howard Bendrot. We believe that it was published between 1976 and 1979, probably in 1977. We believe it is likely that it was published in Kilobaud Microcomputing magazine, and there is some suspicion that it may have been on Page 60. But none of this is confirmed, and we don't have these magazines to verify this. Can anyone identify the Magazine, issue and page number of this article for certain ? Thanks, Barry Watzman From Watzman at ibm.net Mon Dec 7 22:19:50 1998 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next Message-ID: <01BE2238.5C1BEEC0@slip-32-100-187-10.oh.us.ibm.net> Back in the 70's, there was an individual who sold indexes to the various computer magazines (in hard copy format, and perhaps on Disk). I bought it and have a copy of it somewhere, but there is very little chance that I could now find it. The later issues, starting sometime in the 80's, are indexed in Computer Library, a $1,000 per year Ziff-Davis service on a monthly CD-ROM (in fact, not only are they indexed, but I believe that the text of the entire magazine is included in the service)(yes, I know that ZD is a competitor of McGraw Hill, which publishes Byte, but Computer Library has competing publications). But this didn't start until the late 80's. Barry Watzman ---------- From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:01 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > and then an index to the Byte Magazines that I have. Oh boy. I've had a back-burner BYTE index project that I moved forward by almost a millimeter last weekend. How far along are you on putting together an index? If you, or anybody else, wants to collaborate on a project like this, there's already several thousand BYTE's that have been indexed in BibTex format. I plan (OK, hope) to automate entry and searching of this and similar indices. Currently the coverage of material of interest to this group (like early BYTEs) is pretty thin. Check out Nelson H. F. Beebe's web site for a sense of what's been done so far: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/bibliographies.html -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 22:30:08 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next In-Reply-To: <01BE2238.5C1BEEC0@slip-32-100-187-10.oh.us.ibm.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Barry A. Watzman wrote: > Back in the 70's, there was an individual who sold indexes to the > various computer magazines (in hard copy format, and perhaps on Disk). > I bought it and have a copy of it somewhere, but there is very little > chance that I could now find it. If anybody has the digital version of this, I'll offer to help get it up on the web in usable form. > The later issues, starting sometime in the 80's, are indexed in Computer > Library, a $1,000 per year Ziff-Davis service on a monthly CD-ROM (in > fact, not only are they indexed, but I believe that the text of the > entire magazine is included in the service)(yes, I know that ZD is a > competitor of McGraw Hill, which publishes Byte, but Computer Library > has competing publications). > > But this didn't start until the late 80's. Somebody at BYTE made an attempt to create an index of his own in the late 80's, and made them available via ftp from uunet: http://unix.hensa.ac.uk/ftp/mirrors/uunet/published/byte/indexes/ BYTE also published issues on CD-ROM from, I think, 1990 on, and you can search their web site for articles from 1994 on: http://www.byte.com/ -- Doug From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 7 22:40:57 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > As far as I know, there was never an ISA plug-in card to do HP-HIL. The > > I am not sure. There is an HP-150 card with a HP-HIL (1RD2) chip on it, > along with expanded memory. I have it in my 150. > > There are also HP-IL (Interface Loop) cards for the HP150 and ISA. I have > the former, and have seen the latter in a friend's machine Yes, I have one in front of me as I type. It is HP Assy No. 82973-60001. - don > > cards for HP-IL are not too rare. > > > > They're not that common in the UK... > > -tony > > From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 22:49:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: ebay Altair Music Record In-Reply-To: <1283a10a.366ca0b7@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 DaveyGF@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone on this list actually have the original PCC/Dr Dobbs issues from > 1975? 1976? Yes, but the word "Altair" is on several pages, so I won't take less than $500. -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 7 23:12:22 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) References: Message-ID: <366CB536.F862170F@rain.org> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > As far as I know, there was never an ISA plug-in card to do HP-HIL. The > > > > I am not sure. There is an HP-150 card with a HP-HIL (1RD2) chip on it, > > along with expanded memory. I have it in my 150. > > > > There are also HP-IL (Interface Loop) cards for the HP150 and ISA. I have > > the former, and have seen the latter in a friend's machine > > Yes, I have one in front of me as I type. It is HP Assy No. 82973-60001. I have one also, but have never used it. Does it require special software, or software drivers? From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 7 23:21:58 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT) In-Reply-To: <366CB536.F862170F@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > > Yes, I have one in front of me as I type. It is HP Assy No. 82973-60001. > > I have one also, but have never used it. Does it require special software, > or software drivers? Yes, I have a disk with several variants of the software. - don From DaveyGF at aol.com Mon Dec 7 23:36:39 1998 From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobbs.. Message-ID: <23b1e7b2.366cbae7@aol.com> I will pay you $250.00 for one issue, if I can pick anyone of your set. David From yowza at yowza.com Mon Dec 7 23:54:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobbs.. In-Reply-To: <23b1e7b2.366cbae7@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 DaveyGF@aol.com wrote: > I will pay you $250.00 for one issue, if I can pick anyone of your set. I'll let somebody else take advantage of your generous offer. I feel that such absurd prices take much of the fun out of this hobby. However, if you'd like a photocopy of a specific article, let me know, and it's yours at my cost. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 8 00:28:44 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > It was an NCR 260. Printing terminal, not a computer. Talks 300/110 > baud, and has EIA and DAA ports. (DAA= Bell's Data Access > Arrangement? What was this?) Me & Eric Smith were just going over this trying to figure out whether or not we needed one for the original DC Hayes S100 modem card. The DAA was basically a device that converted the digital signals coming off the card into analog tones. You could only get this from Bell back in the day and you had to pay dearly for it. The plexi-glass covered box that comes with the Hayes Micromodem ][ is a DAA. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 8 00:33:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: <199812072338.PAA29119@saul10.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > Yes, but did the DAA actually do anything in terms of signals? In other > words, what were the specs, and in hindsight, could people have reverse- > engineered the DAA? I may be wrong but from my interpretation of the Hayes manual it seemed to do some sort of decoding/encoding. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98] From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Dec 8 00:39:43 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: WHOOPEE! In-Reply-To: References: <13409965022.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981207223943.0130e01c@agora.rdrop.com> At 10:28 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >Me & Eric Smith were just going over this trying to figure out whether or >not we needed one for the original DC Hayes S100 modem card. The DAA was >basically a device that converted the digital signals coming off the card >into analog tones. You could only get this from Bell back in the day and >you had to pay dearly for it. Quote from 'Independance Day' (I love a good 'blow-things-up' movie!): "That's not entirely accurate..." B^} There was no conversion of digital to analog done in the DAA. Specifically in the case of the Hayes for example, the (analog) audio modulation was done in the cute orange blob on the board. The only digital signals coming off the board drove the relay in the DAA box for acquiring the line and pulse dialing. Beyond that, the DAA provided 'protection' and coupling/limiting of the analog signals from the board to the phone line. >The plexi-glass covered box that comes with the Hayes Micromodem ][ is a >DAA. Yep... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From DaveyGF at aol.com Tue Dec 8 00:39:25 1998 From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobbs.. Message-ID: <11c38a4.366cc99d@aol.com> Could you photocopy articles, and advertisements pertaining to Altair? Gates open letter to hobbyists about piracy? I will gladly take those. David From 1davidn at gte.net Tue Dec 8 00:51:15 1998 From: 1davidn at gte.net (David Norris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Altair cassette bootstrap Message-ID: <000701be2277$26e447e0$0700005a@Albatross.NORRISATHOME> I just acquired and fixed two Altairs (one 8800z and one 8800b) and have MITS 4K and 8K BASIC on tape. Problem is, I can't find any bootstrap loader for these programs. I have the simple cassette read program in the Altair manual, but that just gives me raw bytes. I suppose I could reverse engineer the tape format (I can read the tape fine) and write my own cassette boot loader, but I wondered if anyone out there could possibly lend a hand? Thanks, -- Dave Norris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981207/67fe0ff7/attachment.html From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Dec 8 00:51:41 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: OT HP Vectra Networking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > > I know it's kind of a petty, splitting-hairs issue to users, but Linux > > isn't Unix. It just looks and acts like it.... > > If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and is source code compatible > with a duck.... I guess officially, Linux is a POSIX compliant operating system, as is Unix. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 12/07/98] From yowza at yowza.com Tue Dec 8 02:02:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobbs.. In-Reply-To: <11c38a4.366cc99d@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 DaveyGF@aol.com wrote: > Could you photocopy articles, and advertisements pertaining to Altair? Gates > open letter to hobbyists about piracy? I will gladly take those. There's a copy of the Gates letter here: http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html If you'd like to send me *private* mail with specific issues/articles you're looking for, I can probably help you with your Altair fixation :-) BTW, I took a look at your web site. As you probably know, the $12,100 Altair didn't sell, and it makes it more difficult for *enthusiasts* and preservationists to get their own Altairs when such misperceptions are out there. In fact, there are collectors on this list who don't even feel comfortable discussing machines in their collection because of the speculator interest such machines attract. This is a Bad Thing. You also position MITS as an innovator in the calculator market on par with HP. HP started making calculators in 1968, and I think it's safe to say that HP's 1968 *calculator* was more sophisticated and innovative than MITS' 1975 *computer*. And HP's 1972 desktop computer had BASIC built-in several years before Gates et al decided to try to make money by selling their me-too product. -- Doug From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 8 05:13:21 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: x86 OS's In-Reply-To: <000101be2236$3ef255c0$6e65a8c2@gareth.knight2> Message-ID: <199812081014.KAA26423@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> > >QNX - There is a free demo version, about all you can do is surf the web > >with it though. The demo boots from floppy. > It's very good for what it does. The QNX Neutrino kernel is to form the > basis of AmigaOS 5. Check out http://www.amiga.com if you don't believe me. > Unfortunately the demo needs 8Mb of continuous memory, on top of the 640k. > The machine I'm buying only has a total of 8Mb. The Web-Disk runs perfectly on a 8 MB machine and I can't find any information to have 640K plus 8MB, which would be a rather unusual configuration for a PC, since you need a 12 SIMM slot board with 8x1MB + 4x256K, And 256 KB SIMs have been only a very short time (back in the age of '286es and '386es) widely available. And if you take a look at the description of the boot process you might notice that the term 'continous memory' aplies to have at least one meg of RAM at X'10000' since the QNX loader puts the OS kernal up ther (and of corse you need mem below, since it is a x86). Gruss Hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Dec 8 05:32:26 1998 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Linux Q's References: <199812072328.SAA00935@monmouth.com> Message-ID: <366D0E49.F1FBAB2A@bigfoot.com> The Unix jumper is on some Intel desktop 386DX machines I have, not PS/2 machines that I've ever seen (there may be though). The Intel units are very nicely shaped and very durable, as evidenced by the sore back I got from moving them around the other day - and I don't already have a bad back. Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > Thanks Bill. I guess the 5 units I have that also show a Unix jumper on the > > motherboard should be very useful machines for this purpose. Now you have me > > wanting to try one of the dozen PS/2 80's I have for a linux box. > > > > OK... some IBM PS/2 type want to tell me what the Unix jumper was for. > (I figure AIX on PS/2 may have wanted a different drive translation?...) > > Bill From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Tue Dec 8 05:57:42 1998 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: OT HP vectra networking In-Reply-To: References: <199812071902.LAA10916@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >> ::> It's probably an HP-HIL (Hewlett-Packard Human Interface Link IIRC) >> ::> connector. This was an HP interface used for keyboards, mice, >> ::> touchscreens, digitising tablets, security dongles, etc. You can >> ::> daisy-chain several devices off the same connector. >> :: >> ::Hmm, sounds like USB, things don't change do they ;-) >> >> What about the Commodore serial bus? :-) > >I got another Atari 800 over the weekend and decided to hook it up to play >Fort Apocalypse which I got in a batch of disks with the computer (I've >been wanting to play that damn game since the eighth grade but never got a >chance because all the other kids were computer hogs). I was struck at >how simple it was to hook everything up. Plug power into computer. Plus >power into disk drive. Plug cable between disk drive and computer. Stick >disk in drive and turn power on. Instant boot. USB? Pfeh! > >Everything new in the computer realm was invented long ago. Engineers >just re-discover good designs. Heck, the mouse turns 30 this week! Invented and used. Speaking of mice, I totally freaked out when I found out that 'PC's needed *drivers* - being used to Amigas, Apples and Ataris. Of course all those systems need some way of telling the computer how to communicate with anything they are connected to - but, they put it discretely somewhere in the operating system or in the hardware. Nasos From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 8 07:00:49 1998 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005 Subject: Scanning Fiche In-Reply-To: <199812071905.TAA09357@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> References: Message-ID: <199812081201.MAA14432@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> > >not critical that it be pretty - just readable. I wouldn't be surprised > >if you could rig up something like this pretty easily yourself; pick up > >one of the fiche viewers that they can't give away at most university > >and government auctions, get a cheap flatbed scanner (even pretty good > >new ones can be had for under $100), take the mechanism out of the case, > >and bolt it to the front of the fiche viewer. You'd have to remove or > >disable the light source, since the bulb in the fiche viewer provides > >the illumination. I don't think you'd even have to mess with the focal > >length much; the fiche viewers normally do a rear-projection on frosted > >glass, and the scanner is set up to focus on a sheet of paper an inch or > >two away from the sensor, so with a spacer or two it should just work. > >That sounds like an interesting enough project that I might even build > >one if I had anything on fiche to scan. (I'm more interested in getting Yesterday I tried a similar way as described above. I took a sheet of Butterbrotpapier (sorry, I dont know any translation, its a kind of semitransparent paper used to cover sandwitches - Butterbrote :) put it atop the scanner, disabled the lamp (I had to disable the lamp only during the 'real' scan, since my scanner always add a 'white adjustment' before scaning, so the the lamp is only temporary disabeled AND I had to fake the lamp controll signals ... this took me almost three hours to figure out how they controll it), added one mirror and used a fiche projector to display one page right on the paper screen. 
mirror
        /      light               --
        /+- - - - - - - - - - - - - I   projector with fiche
      /  :                            --
    /--------------- paper
     ######## scanner
Since the fiche information was only b&w, the contrast was no problem at all. This method should work well for low resolution scanners. > You could do it even without changing the scanner at all. take two > mirrors and build a 'hat' for the fiche - the light will pass the fice at > one side, get reflected by the mirrors and be passed back, now thru > the fiche. This works quite will since in most scanners the light runs > some one or two cm in front of the scannerline. Of course the 'hat' > has to be adjusted to this angle. It works quite well for pictures, but > for a fiche you might need a _real_ high resolution scanner. If the > fiche document is made from ordinary 'typewriter' papers or drawings > (like most of my 1960s/70s mainframe fiches) the resolution should > be better than 1200 dpi to get an idea of the text. If small parts are > to be viewed, >3000 is needed. One advantage of fiches is still the > _real_ high resolution :) Postscript: 
frontview (in direction of scanner movement)
     /\mirrors
    /  \
   /+--+\ way of light
  / I  I \
 / --- I  \ fiche
------------ scanner

sideview:

 +-------+  mirrors
 I I\    I  way of light
 I I \   I
 I I  \  I
 I ----- *  fiche
----------- scanner
  >>>>>>>   movement
* = this side has to be a bit higher - the 'hat' is 
lifted here to fit the lamp angle of the scanner -
this needs some trieal and error. Its also for scanners
with the lamp infront of the scan line - otherwise the
oherer side has to be lifted.

Sorry, but it's hard to do high resolution 3D ASCII
drawinge :)))

Gruss
Hans


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Tue Dec  8 07:00:49 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: <366C3253.3C30499D@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <199812081201.MAA14427@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> Just to refresh my memory on Linux since I'm just now getting into
> looking at it, just exactly what machines work well with it, and with
> what versions/vareities for each? I have tons of machines from IBM 5170
> AT's, PS/2's of all sorts, other 286 and 386 machines, etc and I'm
> looking at possibly selling off the useful ones that will use Linux as
> cheap as I can to get some room to walk around here.

> Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

AT386es will run Linux, also most PS/2 with 386sx and above.
MCA has to be taken carefuly, since the support is somewhat
low. Try it - or read the MCA HOWTO (cheating). If you take
an actual distribution (I recomend SuSE) a 486 with 8 MB and
100 MB HD the minimum - But its still possible to strip it
down to run on a 16 MHz 386DX  with 4 MB RAM and 40 MB
of hard disk space and still have some room for an application.
12 MHz 386SX is posible to use for a dedicated service (I still
have a 16 MHz 386sx with 8 MB running as print server). But
as workstation its rather painfuly slow. Here you might be better
off if you try to get an older distribution (Linux also starts to add
some fat around the bones).

Also with an 386 I recomend only command line (A/N terminal)
operation - using X gives you the same feeling than using MS-Office
on a 486 - Point, click and go for a cup of coffee until the button
reacts.

You should select the distribution carefuly, since some are
only running on 486 or pentium by default or, even if the kernal
will boot, a lot of the binaries are compieled for 486 or above
CPUs - so you have to recompile some apps.

On the 286es you need a different OS - Linux is a 386+ OS.
Maybe look for old copies of SCO at swap meets. I don't
know any free 286 *nix. Even Minix is still copyrighted - you
may have to buy at leas one copy of Tannenbaums book on
Minix.

Gruss
Hans

--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch


From kmar at lle.rochester.edu  Tue Dec  8 07:21:19 1998
From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Ken Marshall)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981208082118.00962d80@popserver.lle.rochester.edu>

At 10:27 PM 12/7/98 -0000, you wrote:
>> I have had several older HP vectras here that have had HP-HPIL interfaces,
>> including an HP Vectra CS (8086) and a Vectra RS-20 (386). The HP-HPIL
>> interface was generally supplied as an 8-bit card that plugged directly
>> into the ISA bus. 
>
>If you're talking about HP-IL, that is *entirely* different from HP-HIL.
>
>There's nothing called HP-HPIL.

You are correct. I meant HP-HIL. HP-HPIL was a typograpical error.

I also have HP-IL here, but that's used to interface a gas chromatograph
/mass spectrometer to a HP 9000 series workstation. I know of others here
that have used HP-IL for other HP systems, but I've never seen it on HP PC's.


>
>As far as I know, there was never an ISA plug-in card to do HP-HIL.  The
>cards for HP-IL are not too rare.
>
>
Kenneth L. Marshall
Research Engineer, Optical Materials
Laboratory for Laser Energetics
University of Rochester
250 East River Road
Rochester, NY 14623
Phone:(716)-275-8247
Fax:  (716)-275-5960


From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au  Tue Dec  8 09:22:32 1998
From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
Message-ID: <01be22be$939ca5c0$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au>

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell 
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

Date: Tuesday, 8 December 1998 13:35
Subject: Re: WHOOPEE!



>If you think the first paragraph is bad, you should try the UK at about
>the same time. You had to rent the entire modem from the GPO (Post
>Office, who also ran the telephone system). And you had to have a
>'barrier box' (a box containing zeners and fuses) on the RS232 port of
>the modem, just in case your terminal decided to send mains down to the
>modem.


Australia was almost as bad.  The then PMG Dept. (The phone 'company' was
part of the Post Office at that time) were rather hostile about plugging
anything but a phone in.  Initially a "line isolation" unit was required
between any 3rd party device and the phone, and only a PMG technician could
install it.  Eventually, they started to test and approve the modems etc
themselves, but it was virtually impossible to get anything homebuilt
through that process, since it involved providing examples for the PMG to
test to destruction by pouring enourmous voltages into them to ensure that
they would not permit said destructive voltage to reach the phone system.
Even now, we can't legally use modems that are not Austel approved, even if
they are ok under FCC or British Telecom regs.   There was a time when lots
of BBS's ran illegal HST Modems, which were not imported into Australia, and
hence not type approved at the time.

Cheers

Geoff
Computer Room Internet Cafe
Port Pirie
South Australia.
netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Tue Dec  8 08:55:57 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
Message-ID: <19981208.093241.244.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

Hmph.  ALTAIR Collecting: Another rich man's hobby.
I'm just really glad there isn't this kind of interest in 
'collecting' the stuff *I'm* interested in.  I can still 
get most of what I want pretty cheaply (although that's 
starting to change).

Damn.

Jeff

On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:59:43 EST DaveyGF@aol.com writes:
>Just finished the beta on my new website dedicated to Altair 
>computers.. Check
>it out. I will be making several additions soon- including a complete 
>archive
>of '97 and '98 classiccmp list server messages pertaining to altair 
>subjects
>and a virtual museum.
>
>http://altaircomputers.org  
>
>David
>daveygf@aol.com
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Dec  8 08:36:08 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte
In-Reply-To: 
References: <01BE2238.5C1BEEC0@slip-32-100-187-10.oh.us.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208083608.00f08840@pc>


Apart from an index of Byte or other old magazines, wouldn't it be
more interesting to scan the actual pages?  If I could buy a DVD
with the first ten years, I could at least decimate my piles in
the basement.  The article compendiums that are offered for Byte,
DDJ, etc. are interesting, but so are the ads, and they aren't included.

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Dec  8 08:51:18 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208085118.00eebc00@pc>

At 09:59 PM 12/7/98 EST, DaveyGF@aol.com wrote:
>Just finished the beta on my new website dedicated to Altair computers..
Check
>it out. I will be making several additions soon- including a complete archive
>of '97 and '98 classiccmp list server messages pertaining to altair subjects
>and a virtual museum.
>http://altaircomputers.org  

Nice start!  The link I liked best was the Altair emulator in Java at
  They implemented a number
of things I dreamed of seeing - emulation of the Teletype, for example,
and easy access to tapes and bootstraps.

However, I don't think it's accurate to give much meaning to the
$12,000 bid on an Altair.  An unconsummated transaction means nothing.
Did you confirm this with Lemay?  I tried and got no response.  

- John



From lfb107 at psu.edu  Tue Dec  8 10:57:56 1998
From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: x86 OS's
Message-ID: <199812081654.LAA79476@f04n01.cac.psu.edu>

Here's a few more (some are not x86 but I thought you guys might
still be ineterested) that I stole off a web page.  Particullarly interesting
is the last site with a *lot* of oddball stuff.  Enjoy!

            The following is a list of free operating systems that are
specifically 
            made for, or will run on, "obsolete" computers. The OS name's are 
             followed by the intended processor/system and the "mainstream" 
                                operating system it attempts to emulate. 
                                                                            
                        


ELKS (Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset) 
http://www.linux.org.uk/Linux8086.html 

ELKS is still in development and is an attempt to port Linux to run on an
8088/8086 processor. Future plans include 68000 and possibly Z80 ports. 

Caldera OpenDOS 
http://www.caldera.com 

OpenDOS is a replacement for MS-DOS or PC-DOS on 80x86 processor 
based systems and includes the source code for the kernel. 

LUnix 
http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/c64.html 

LUnix is a UNIX type clone for the C64/128. Future plans include support for 
TCP/IP amomg other things. 

Proolix 
http://www.infocom.kharkov.ua:80/~prool/proolix.htm 

Another UNIX clone for 8088/8086 processor based systems that is somewhat 
similar to MINIX. 

Minix 
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/minix.html 

Here it is, the original 8088/8086 UNIX clone. This is the Operating System 
that gave rise to the popular Linux OS and is currently available for PC, 
Amiga, Macintosh, and Atari ST systems. 

UZI 
http://oak.oakland.edu/oak/cpm/uzi-pre.html 

Currently, there are no UZI "Home Pages" (atleast none that I know of). 
Here is a link for the FTP location of the UZI binaries for Z80 machines. 

OS/A65 
http://www2.tu-chamnitz.de/~fachat/csa 

Originally made for a home built computer, OS/A65 was ported to the C64 
and is theoretically portable to many other 6502 systems. Includes support 
for multitasking and TCP/IP. 

FreeDOS (DOS-C) 
http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/freedos.html 
http://www.freedos.org 

FreeDOS is meant as a replacement for MS-DOS or PC-DOS for all 80x86 based
systems. 

Other Operating Systems on the Net. 
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/bridges/oses.html 

This site has an exhaustive list of other free operating systems as well as
a few 
links to other free operating systems pages. 

                                                                            




From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Tue Dec  8 11:13:48 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Vectra Networking)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

At 09:39 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Max (in a male persona :-) wrote:
>I mean UNIX in general. I consider Linux and UNIX to be similar enough to
>say that what I am running right now is as directly descended from
>something that ran 30 years ago on that PDP in Bell Labs (IIRC) as any
>other version of UNIX.

Linux isn't UNIX, and it doesn't have its roots in UNIX any more than, say
CP/M. Linus liked MINIX (which is Tannebaum's version of an operating
system that uses many UNIX concepts) but wanted to make it better and did
so, as a model of things he would like it to do he used SunOS (which by
that time was the SystemV/BSD hybrid that was about as UNIX-like as Mach).
There are also some great archived flame wars between Linus and Andrew.
FreeBSD on the other hand is derived from BSD 4.4, which was derived from
BSD 4.x which was derived from Version 7 which goes back to the PDP-11 in
Bell Labs. It _IS_ UNIX with the proprietary bits excised over a period of
years. It, NetBSD, OpenBSD, and BSDI are all "true" UNIXes, if you care to
be a purist.

Then there are the OSes RTEMS and uCOS, both of which run on x86 machines.

--Chuck



From spc at armigeron.com  Wed Dec  9 11:19:35 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Vectra Networking)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 8, 98 09:13:48 am
Message-ID: <199812091719.MAA02778@armigeron.com>

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From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Tue Dec  8 11:48:06 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: 

Hmmm.... Fascinating.

After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't
really great machines, like a Ferarri or whatever, and that
the BASIC software for it wasn't very innovative.

I dunno, maybe there wouldn't be such interest if Micro-soft 
hadn't become the juggernaught it is today, and MITS would have
been relegated to the dustbin of history.

However - I do see it as the 'Model-T' of PERSONAL computing - 
sure everything had been done before but was usually priced
out of the average joe/jane's reach unless they worked in a
research institute or business, in which case they weren't
always allowed free reign to do whatever they wanted.

Also the Altair was a very open hardware platform, you had
the schematics, you got the educational experience of 
actually building and usually repairing it; the more
experienced could add just about anything they could dream
of plus all the published construction articles one could
build on their kitchen table without applying for a govt.
research grant.

I'll yield the floor now but more later  ;O


	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com




From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 14:15:37 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: FSOT: Z-80 Daignostic/Emulator
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208141537.307f7794@intellistar.net>

More house cleaning.  I dug out a model EM-180B Z-80 Diagnostic/Emulator
made by Applied MicroSystems.  It appears to be developement system for
Z-80s. It says has 64K of RAM. It has a RS-232 port and a socket for a
target EPROM. It also has a hex keybaord and keys for setting breakpoints,
memory addresses, I/O address, (data) Store, examine, decrement and
increment, single step, run, etc.  The LED display shows the adress and
data and the various CPU status bits and the machine cycle states. It
powers up but the 1 and 3 keys no longer spring back like they should. It's
about 12" square and 4" high and runs on 110 VAC. I know nothing else about
this thing. If anyone wants it contact me directly.

  Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 14:17:39 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208141739.2ecf7cce@intellistar.net>

Commodore marked cable with a card edge connector on one end and a
male/female GPIB connectors on the other. Contact me if interested.

  Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 14:20:53 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: FSOT: Sharp CE-126P printer and Cassette interface.
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208142053.2ecf52d4@intellistar.net>

Found while house cleaning. Appears to be for one of those small BASIC
handheld computers.  In very good condition but I have no way to test it.
Contact me directly if you're interested in it.

   Joe



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 12:24:19 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: <366D0E49.F1FBAB2A@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> The Unix jumper is on some Intel desktop 386DX machines I have, not
> PS/2 machines that I've ever seen (there may be though). The Intel
> units are very nicely shaped and very durable, as evidenced by the
> sore back I got from moving them around the other day - and I don't
> already have a bad back.

FYI, some BIOS' also have an option for Unix or OS/2 in the setup.  I have
no idea what these settings would effect.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 12:30:34 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: <199812081201.MAA14432@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> Yesterday I tried a similar way as described above. I took a sheet
> of Butterbrotpapier (sorry, I dont know any translation, its a kind
> of semitransparent paper used to cover sandwitches - Butterbrote :)

Wax paper.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 14:56:00 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: FYI  HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.16.19981206233409.4f879cec@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208145600.2ecffd62@intellistar.net>

At 07:22 PM 12/7/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >  No, the two dots tells you which end of the HP_HIL cable to plug into
>> that port. They have nothing to do with how many things you can connect to
>> the port. The two ends of the cables are different electrically but the
>
>IIRC they're simply mirror images of each other. But the plugs are 
>slightly different so you can't plug the cable into the wrong socket anyway.

   I haven't tried it but that's not what HP says.
>
>> same physically. You have to be sure and match the number of dots on the
>> socket with the number of dots on the plug that you plug into it. Most of
>
>Cables have 1 dot at one end and 2 dots at the other. 

   Yes, you have to match the dot(s) on the cable connector with the dot(s)
on the socket.
>
>> the HIL devices have two ports, one that goes back to the computer (maybe
>
>The exception to this is computers, which are generally one end of the 
>chain and things like mice with a built-in cable with only one plug on 
>it. So for example you'd start at the computer, cable to the keyboard 
>then from there to a digitising tablet and then a mouse on the end of the 
>chain.
>
>> you like on the port. I think the only limitaion is the amount of power
>
>I thought there was an addressing limitation (8 devices? 32 devices?) but 
>I would have to find my HP-HIL spec to be sure.

  I think there is an addressing limitation but HP says that you'll usually
run into the  power limitation first.  I'm not sure how you're supposed to
know when you do unless the whole system chokes.
>
>> >  It's recognized automaticly but some software won't use it. For example,
>> there's only one piece of software for the HP 150 Touch Screen II that will
>> use the mouse. I expect the newer HP-UX software will make more use of it.
>
>MS-windows by any chance? 

   I don't know. I would think it would work with Windows BUT I was told
that DrawPerfect was the only program that used the mouse.  I tried the
rodent on my 150-II with several other programs and none of them (including
PAM) used it. I have MS Windows for the 150 but one of the disks is bad so
I haven't been able to install it.

>I'm pretty sure that can use the HP-HIL mouse 
>on a 150-II.

  Yes, but not the standard 150. The TS-II uses the HP_HIL devices, the 150
uses a non-standard keyboard.

   Joe
>
>-tony
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 15:42:41 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Byte Index. WAS Re: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00d301be2256$6a9c1ba0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208154241.2dc76646@intellistar.net>

Doug,

  I might be able to save you some work. I have an original copy of Byte's
Keyterm index dated 1977. It has an index by subject to all the Byte
articles from Sept 75 through Dec 1976, Interface Age articles from Dec 75
through Dec 76 and HamRadio Magazine from March 69 through Dec 76.  It's 78
long.

   Joe


At 10:00 PM 12/7/98 -0600, Doug wrote:
>
>If you, or anybody else, wants to collaborate on a project like this,
>there's already several thousand BYTE's that have been indexed in BibTex
>format.  I plan (OK, hope) to automate entry and searching of this and
>similar indices.  Currently the coverage of material of interest to this 
>group (like early BYTEs) is pretty thin.
>
>Check out Nelson H. F. Beebe's web site for a sense of what's been done




From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 14:14:05 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:00 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981208083608.00f08840@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Apart from an index of Byte or other old magazines, wouldn't it be
> more interesting to scan the actual pages?  If I could buy a DVD
> with the first ten years, I could at least decimate my piles in
> the basement.  The article compendiums that are offered for Byte,
> DDJ, etc. are interesting, but so are the ads, and they aren't included.

Agreed, but I'd be happy just knowing which issue contains what at this
point.  Besides, viewing digital copies of either ads or articles just
isn't the same as fingering through one of those light-weight
random-access mags.  (And I think BYTE's post-1993 CDized mags include
ads, but who cares about anything after 1993?)


-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 14:31:42 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

I took a quick look at the first issues of DDJ, and the stuff that looks
like it might be of interest to Altair owners is:

Feb 1976 reprint of May 1975 PCC, Steve Dompier's "Music of a Sort", 2pp

A couple of letters in the March 1976 issue that make references to MITS
recall of the 8K RAM board and of their poor docs, 2pp

[Cool, the June 1976 issue has a nice looking 6502 S-100 SBC from Western
Data Systems]

[Interesting, there's an Aug 1976 article that talks about how stable CP/M
has been for the last two years.  What did he write it for in 1974?  An
Intellec?]

Oct 1976, Pertec buys iCom, 1p.

Nov 1976, Jef Raskin on the Poly-88 where he compares it the the Altair
and IMSAI, 3pp.

That's about it in 1976 -- very little about the Altair, and *nothing*
about Microsoft BASIC (odd for a programming journal, but not surprising
given their association with Tiny BASIC, I suppose). 

Reading through this stuff, I'm reminded that I don't have copies of the
earlier PCC stuff or any of the earlier club newsletters.  Photocopy 
trades, anyone?

-- Doug



From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 14:43:07 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Vectra Networking)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote:

> Linux isn't UNIX [...]

My point was that words change their meaning.  Unix isn't Unix anymore. 
For that matter, Linux != Linux.  When most people talk about Linux, do
you think they're talking about a kernel?  I read an interview of Richard
Stallman in which he whined a bit about how the collection of GNU stuff
combined with a Linux kernel is called "Linux."  There's probably more GNU
code than Linus code in any given Linux distribution.

-- Doug



From jfoust at threedee.com  Tue Dec  8 14:48:37 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208144837.00ea7a20@pc>

At 02:43 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote:
>I read an interview of Richard
>Stallman in which he whined a bit about how the collection of GNU stuff
>combined with a Linux kernel is called "Linux."  There's probably more GNU
>code than Linus code in any given Linux distribution.

RMS whining?  Almost as bad as his singing voice.  He was only
whining because he wants a share of the Linux spotlight.  Hmm,
the MacArthur grant money must've run out by now.

- John



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 14:53:31 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> [Interesting, there's an Aug 1976 article that talks about how stable CP/M
> has been for the last two years.  What did he write it for in 1974?  An
> Intellec?]
> 

Yes.

> Reading through this stuff, I'm reminded that I don't have copies of the
> earlier PCC stuff or any of the earlier club newsletters.  Photocopy 
> trades, anyone?

I need copies of the PCC newsletter and volume 1 of the Homebrew Computer
Club newsletter (I have Vol 2- the end).

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 15:15:10 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Going OT... Re: (Linux != UNIX)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981208144837.00ea7a20@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, John Foust wrote:

> RMS whining?  Almost as bad as his singing voice.  He was only
> whining because he wants a share of the Linux spotlight.  Hmm,
> the MacArthur grant money must've run out by now.

Speaking of singing, ever notice how Robert Cringely in his PBS specials
goes out of his way to demonstrate that he can't sing?  There were two
spots in the recent Internet history special where he was singing...in the
beginning when he was trying to do the national anthem at a ballpark, and
then when he was driving on highway 101 to San Jose.  What's up with
THAT!?

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Tue Dec  8 15:23:34 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Going OT... Re: (Linux != UNIX)
Message-ID: <001b01be22f1$0845afc0$9b021a26@maxeskin>

He's also tried to sing in Triumph of the Nerds I _think_ and I know he
tried to sing the Beverly Hillbillies song in Plane Crazy. Have you checked
his faq on pbs.org?
>  What's up with THAT!?
>
>Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail:
dastar@siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>Always being hassled by the man.
>
>                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]
>



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Tue Dec  8 15:58:22 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981208135746.00b77a60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

Dale Luck has PCC newspaper vol1 number 1. It was a hoot to read through!
--Chuck





From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 12:39:52 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: VAX 11/780 memory diagnostic floppy
In-Reply-To:  from "Stan Sieler" at Dec 7, 98 07:23:55 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 12:56:05 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981208082118.00962d80@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> from "Ken Marshall" at Dec 8, 98 08:21:19 am
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 13:42:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To:  from "cswiger" at Dec 8, 98 12:48:06 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 13:26:44 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To: <01be22be$939ca5c0$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> from "Computer Room Internet Cafe" at Dec 9, 98 01:52:32 am
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From kmar at lle.rochester.edu  Tue Dec  8 16:37:44 1998
From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Ken Marshall)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: HP Vectra networking (26 days OT)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981208173744.00906710@popserver.lle.rochester.edu>

At 06:56 PM 12/8/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> I also have HP-IL here, but that's used to interface a gas chromatograph
>> /mass spectrometer to a HP 9000 series workstation. I know of others here
>> that have used HP-IL for other HP systems, but I've never seen it on HP
PC's.
>
>HP-IL is somewhat unconventional for that. HPIB (similar to GPIB or 
>IEEE488) is much more common for linking up test gear, etc.

Many of HP's late 70's and 80's analytical instrumentation used HP-IL
extensively to control instruments and sampling accessories, such as
autosamplers. Indeed, the connection to the 9000 series for the GC part of
the system is to the system HP-IB bus via a 82169A HP-IL to HP-IB
interface. The mass spectrometer itself is directly connected to the HP-IB
bus. Newer HP analytical equipment generally uses only HP-IB .

 

>
>I don't know if an HP150 counts as an HP PC (HP seemed to think so in the 
>manuals), but I have a card in mine with a parallel port and an HP-IL 
>port on it. I also have software to make the HP-150 emulate an HP-IL disk 
>drive so I can save files from my calculators.
>
>HP-IL is more common on HP calculators, like the HP75, HP71 and HP41 series.
>
>-tony
>
>
>
Kenneth L. Marshall
Research Engineer, Optical Materials
Laboratory for Laser Energetics
University of Rochester
250 East River Road
Rochester, NY 14623
Phone:(716)-275-8247
Fax:  (716)-275-5960


From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 16:46:15 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: OT HP vectra networking
References: <199812071902.LAA10916@oa.ptloma.edu> 
Message-ID: <366DAC37.3352513B@cnct.com>

Athanasios Kotsenos wrote:

> Speaking of mice, I totally freaked out when I found out that 'PC's needed
> *drivers* - being used to Amigas, Apples and Ataris. Of course all those
> systems need some way of telling the computer how to communicate with
> anything they are connected to - but, they put it discretely somewhere in
> the operating system or in the hardware.

With Amigas, Apples and Ataris, there is a very limited collection
of such peripherals available, since the drivers discretely _in_ the
operating system is the whole set.  Windows not actually being an
operating system, attaching external devices isn't that difficult, at
least during a week that Microsoft is feeling cooperative.  And Intel.
Linux being a real operating system built from the ground to take
extensions, the device drivers have proper attachments in the kernel.
Oh, and kernel source code -- that does help.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 16:41:59 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> That's roughly how it is in the UK at the moment. All devices 'directly 
> or indirectly connected' to the phone system have to be approved. This 
> includes acoustic couplers, BTW, which have to be unable to send certain 
> tones down the line.

Why?  Is the UK public network still using in-band signaling?  We can't
blue box in the states anymore.  Most of the switches nationwide have been
upgraded to digital, out-of-band signaling.


Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 16:53:54 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
References: <199812081201.MAA14427@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <366DAE02.4EB43B8A@cnct.com>

Hans Franke wrote:

> low. Try it - or read the MCA HOWTO (cheating). If you take

Reading the HOWTOs is not cheating.  It's the best thing that the
free software movement come out with since the CopyLeft.  (Linux
documentation -- the Networking materials especially -- is better
than anything I've ever gotten from vendors, and helped me get
"commercial" software working despite tech support's best efforts).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 17:23:29 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Vectra Networking)
References: 
Message-ID: <366DB4F1.51E9C32@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote:
> 
> > Linux isn't UNIX [...]
> 
> My point was that words change their meaning.  Unix isn't Unix anymore.
> For that matter, Linux != Linux.  When most people talk about Linux, do
> you think they're talking about a kernel?  I read an interview of Richard
> Stallman in which he whined a bit about how the collection of GNU stuff
> combined with a Linux kernel is called "Linux."  There's probably more GNU
> code than Linus code in any given Linux distribution.

Yup. Linux Ain't Unix.  It Ain't Minix.  It ain't GNU, though it uses
Stallman's Copyleft.  Yes, every Linux distribution uses gagloads of
GNU material, properly attributed, all source available, and Stallman
has nothing to complain about except that people have been making
money selling free software.  (That's free as in something other than
the price -- Open Source).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 17:34:43 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Vectra Networking)
In-Reply-To: <366DB4F1.51E9C32@cnct.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote:

> Yup. Linux Ain't Unix.  It Ain't Minix.  It ain't GNU, though it uses
> Stallman's Copyleft.  Yes, every Linux distribution uses gagloads of
> GNU material, properly attributed, all source available, and Stallman
> has nothing to complain about except that people have been making
> money selling free software.  (That's free as in something other than
> the price -- Open Source).

AFAIK, Stallman never had a problem with people selling "free" software,
or making money from it in other ways such as Cygnus support.  FSF used to
make money themselves by selling tapes or CD-ROMs with hefty margins.
They still offer "deluxe" packages for $5K and CD-ROMs for $240 to corps
and $60 to peons, but I doubt they sell very well.

According to the interview I read (from 1996), Stallman considers Linux to
be the fullfillment of his mission to make Unix free, but he might be a
bit unhappy that Linus is seen as the creator of something that couldn't
have been pulled off without his help.  Linux would be a sorry joke
without GNU.

-- Doug




From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 17:41:15 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
References: 
Message-ID: <366DB91B.CDFFAE5D@cnct.com>

cswiger wrote:
> 
> Hmmm.... Fascinating.
> 
> After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
> hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
> underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't
> really great machines, like a Ferarri or whatever, and that
> the BASIC software for it wasn't very innovative.
> 
> I dunno, maybe there wouldn't be such interest if Micro-soft
> hadn't become the juggernaught it is today, and MITS would have
> been relegated to the dustbin of history.
> 
> However - I do see it as the 'Model-T' of PERSONAL computing -
> sure everything had been done before but was usually priced
> out of the average joe/jane's reach unless they worked in a
> research institute or business, in which case they weren't
> always allowed free reign to do whatever they wanted.

The Model-T systems of computers were the TRS-80, the Apple-2 and
(hate to say it) the Pet.  Something that could be bought by a
common citizen and made to work -- the computer buyer didn't have
to be a serious programmer, the buyer of a Ford T didn't have to
be a full-time mechanic.  While I know there were MITS-equivalent
automobile projects published a century ago, none of the names
seem to stand out.  Thinking on it, the Ford Model A was the
equivalent of a TRS-80 Model One, the Model T was the equivalent
of a Model 3.  The Volkswagen was the equivalent of an IBM PC,
right down to the fascist overseers of the design.  (For Ferarri
parallels, go for Cromemco or Xerox).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Tue Dec  8 17:54:53 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <13410237533.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Can't blue box in the US anymore]

Ehehehe.... Do you know this from experience?
Has anyone here actually done this?  I once tried recording the payhone
quarter tones, but it didn't work.  Jeff once was nearly arrested for
fixing a payphone - He was stranded at a wal-mart, the handset cord had been
severed, so he got a toolkit fron his truck and went to work.
The police and two Ameritech linemen showed up - The police wanted to haul
him off, but the linemen said what he did was fine and so he didn't get
in trouble.
-------


From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Tue Dec  8 17:53:04 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking)
In-Reply-To: <199812082340.SAA00374@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 gram@cnct.com wrote:
> Yup. Linux Ain't Unix.  It Ain't Minix.  It ain't GNU, though it uses
> Stallman's Copyleft.  Yes, every Linux distribution uses gagloads of
> GNU material, properly attributed, all source available, and Stallman
> has nothing to complain about except that people have been making
> money selling free software.  (That's free as in something other than
> the price -- Open Source).

Why would he complain about that? I understand it may be against his
philosophy, and RedHat-like products may not be the best examples of Linux
(KDE is probably the worst example of Linux though it's getting shipped
with every major distribution...) but how does he expect GNU software to
get distributed? Someone has to make money along the line...what we need
is to get back to the old days when people shared tips on how to speed up
their computers by soldering in a couple of diodes. In those days, it
wasn't as necessary to ruin software in order to distribute it. I got to
use dial-up bulletin board systems for about three years, and I liked them
more than the commercial internet, which killed these off, and harmed the
sort of scientific-academic-university spirit that was previously more
common among computer users.


----------------------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor



From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU  Tue Dec  8 18:06:38 1998
From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
Message-ID: <12288839@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>

--- "Daniel A. Seagraves" wrote:
[Can't blue box in the US anymore]

Ehehehe.... Do you know this from experience?
Has anyone here actually done this? I once tried recording the payhone
quarter tones, but it didn't work. 
--- end of quote ---

Quarter tones -- that's red box territory, not blue box. Red boxing IS still possible today, though not with most COCOT's. Bell/Nynex (well, they're the same now, aren't they?) all happily respond to red box tones. But, operators sure don't! 

(actual quote: "I can't accept that, I need REAL money.")  Hee hee...

-- MB


From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Dec  8 18:12:47 1998
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke" 
        "Re: Scanning Fiche" (Dec  8, 13:01)
References:  
	<199812081201.MAA14432@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <9812090012.ZM6026@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Dec 8, 13:01, Hans Franke wrote:

> Yesterday I tried a similar way as described above. I took a sheet
> of Butterbrotpapier (sorry, I dont know any translation, its a kind
> of semitransparent paper used to cover sandwitches - Butterbrote :)

"greaseproof" paper.  A treated but not waxed paper, rather like thin
tracing paper.  In fact, kids here often use it as tracing paper.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 18:13:20 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, cswiger wrote:

> However - I do see it as the 'Model-T' of PERSONAL computing - sure
> everything had been done before but was usually priced out of the
> average joe/jane's reach unless they worked in a research institute or
> business, in which case they weren't always allowed free reign to do
> whatever they wanted. 

As you probably know, the Scelbi-8H came well before the Altair and had a
similar price.  But the Altair got a cover story in Popular Electronics,
and the Scelbi didn't.  Of course, the Mark-8 got an even earlier cover
story in Radio Electronics, but you couldn't buy a kit like you could with
the Altair.

And don't forget that once you added memory, storage, and a TTY to your
Altair, you were talking Big Bucks, and something like an HP 9830 (1972)
starts to look like a very attractive alternative (assuming you knew they
existed -- HP didn't run ads in Popular Electronics, for example).

I think the infatuation with the Altair today is due to reporters and
popular writers repeating each other over and over that the Altair was
"the first personal computer", which is nonsense.  Low-priced personal
computers for education and experimentation have been available since 1950
or so.  They were basically toys, but so was the Altair when it came out.

I don't even buy the idea that the Altair started the Hobbyist Movement.
It seems there were quite a few newsletters and computer clubs that
pre-dated the Altair, and they discussed both 8008-based machines and
surplus DEC stuff.

> Also the Altair was a very open hardware platform, you had the
> schematics, you got the educational experience of actually building and
> usually repairing it; the more experienced could add just about anything
> they could dream of plus all the published construction articles one
> could build on their kitchen table without applying for a govt. 
> research grant.

Yes, I think accessibility was the key.  That's why the Altair bus was so
quickly cloned, and it's probably also why a weenie like Gates latched
onto the machine as a target for his "quality software".

-- Doug



From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Tue Dec  8 18:20:40 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To: <12288839@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU>
Message-ID: <13410242227.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[Recording quarter tones is a red box]
I know that.

In the payphone next to SSI, you don't even need to do this:  Just do
this:

1.	Pick up payphone, dial 4-1-1.
2.	Payphone sez, "Welcome to the Ameritech Automated Directory Service"
3.	Push 0.
4.	You'll get an operator.  Give her city, state, name...
5.	She'll forward you to a computer that says something along the lines of
	"This number can be automagically connected for $.15"
6.	Push 1
7.	Phone sez, "To bill this call and service to the number you are speaking
	from, push X".  Push X.
8.	You're done.

Oh, and I found this out by ACCIDENT.  It may or may not work in your area.
I'd be interested in knowing if it does.

Another note:  The phone in question here was right next door to the CO.
I could have walked over and told them about this.  I doubt this will work
outside of Ameritech territory.

A third note (because my boss is standing over my shoulder):
I am not responsible for (ab)uses of this information!  This is for
educational purposes only.  Blah blah blah lawyers sue blah sue sue :)
-------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 17:19:58 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: FYI  HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981208145600.2ecffd62@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 8, 98 02:56:00 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 17:22:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To:  from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 8, 98 02:31:42 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 17:27:29 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To:  from "Sam Ismail" at Dec 8, 98 02:41:59 pm
Message-ID: 

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From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 18:42:03 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: OT stories about phone phreaking
In-Reply-To: <13410237533.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> Ehehehe.... Do you know this from experience?

No.  By the time I got heavy into phreaking ESS was a stark reality and
long gone were the days of the analog CO switch.  Where I used to live, we
had one of the last StepByStep switches in the country.  They swapped it
out with an AT&T 5ESS a few months after I started toying with the phone
system.  I did manage to get pieces of the old switch and they're still in
my dad's barn.  I did manage to get access to the 5ESS but PacBell found
out about it and they weren't terribly amused.

> Has anyone here actually done this?  I once tried recording the payhone
> quarter tones, but it didn't work.  Jeff once was nearly arrested for

Recording the quarter tones works as long as they are loud enough coming
out of the phone and you have a good recorder with fresh batteries.  The
playback must be within 5% tolerance of the recording.  It still works on
a good number of payphones but after the Radio Shack touch tone dialer mod
article came out in the Summer 1990 issue of 2600 every teenager in
America was now walking around with the most proliferate toll fraud device
in the history of telecom and the telephone company eventually found a way
to filter the quarter tones from the mouthpiece albeit several years
later.  I remember when my friend and I first built ours we called a bank
in Japan.  It was like $16 dollars in quarters.  The operator must've
thought we were wacky.

Nowadays, any Bell payphone that's been upgraded for hearing-aid
compatibilty also got the upgrade that thwarts the "red box" (any device
which makes quarter tones).  Of course, this trick never worked on the
privately owned payphones (COCOTs) since they didn't use Bell's ACTS
(Automated Coin Toll System) computer for billing, but rather have
internal coin detection mechanisms and databases for rating calls.

You can still find payphones that the red box will work on but its getting
harder all the time.

> fixing a payphone - He was stranded at a wal-mart, the handset cord had been
> severed, so he got a toolkit fron his truck and went to work.
> The police and two Ameritech linemen showed up - The police wanted to haul
> him off, but the linemen said what he did was fine and so he didn't get
> in trouble.

:)

PS. I wrote a program on my Psion 3a called the "3aBox".  Its basically a
Blue/Red/Green and Silver box all in one.  You select the box you want
from the menu.  For the blue box, you can type in whatever string you want
it to outpulse, for instance K415121S (K = Key pulse, S = Start) and then
hit enter.  It then plays the tones out the speaker.  The Red box has a
menu that lets you select quarter/dime/nickel.  The Green box gives you a
menu that lets you select Coin Return, Coin Collect, Ringback and Operator
Release.  And the silver box is just a DTMF dialer.

If you're interested in this program, e-mail me and I'll send you the
source.  You'll need a serial link to upload it to your Psion.  It should
also work on the series 3c, and maybe the Series 5, but I haven't gotten a
5 yet so I don't know for sure.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Tue Dec  8 18:45:01 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: OT: Free Software (Was Re: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP
  Networking))
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812082340.SAA00374@localhost>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981208164020.00b919f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

At 06:53 PM 12/8/98 -0500, Max wrote:
>Why would he complain about that?

Because Richard Stallman's goal with GNU, and the associated legal verbiage
is to force all software to be free and make it illegal (at least in the
contract law sense) to make money on selling software. He espouses as much
if you ask him. He has railed in many forums, the latest I read was in a
crypto forum, on why this is, and why he has no sympathy for people who
feel otherwise. In his words "I have nothing against people who sell
software, and they should have nothing against me for forbidding them from
using my software in the software they sell."

--Chuck



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 18:44:39 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To:  from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 8, 98 06:13:20 pm
Message-ID: 

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From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 18:48:09 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> Of course, to tie in the other Altair thread, the Intellec, for all it 
> was the first CP/M machine, is nowhere near as valuable as an Altair...

It's probably more valuable than an Altair, but less expensive :-)

We can fix that, though.  Just get Robert X. Cringley to do a piece on the
*real* early microcomputers that came directly out of Intel, and watch the
price sky-rocket....

-- Doug



From brett at xnet.com  Tue Dec  8 18:53:37 1998
From: brett at xnet.com (Brett Crapser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
> Yes, AFAIK it was an Intellec something-or-other. The MDS800 cbios 
> listing is the one included with 'generic' CP/M kits.

Yup

> Of course, to tie in the other Altair thread, the Intellec, for all it 
> was the first CP/M machine, is nowhere near as valuable as an Altair...

MINE is!  I love the old BIG Blue (well - it IS kinda blue) Boxes.

BC



From dburrows at netpath.net  Tue Dec  8 18:47:11 1998
From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
Message-ID: <025c01be230d$b4646d20$bf281bce@p166>



>[Can't blue box in the US anymore]
>
>Ehehehe.... Do you know this from experience?
>
I notice that no one has admitted to it.  I also hope no one does - when I
was a teenager there was a federal grand jury that was just about blue
boxes - one city away from me.  I would know nothing about 2600 or 700, 900,
1100, 1300, or 1500 Hz tones.:)
Dan



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 19:07:19 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: OT phreaking tips
In-Reply-To: <13410242227.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> In the payphone next to SSI, you don't even need to do this:  Just do
> this:
<...> 
> 
> Oh, and I found this out by ACCIDENT.  It may or may not work in your area.
> I'd be interested in knowing if it does.

This "trick" works because you're calling from a privately owned payphone
that is not recognized as such at the phone company.  So they think you're
just calling from a regular business line and allow the call to be billed
to that line.  I do this all the time in hotels and stuff.  It definitely
will NOT work from any Bell phones, and will probably not work with many
other privately owned payphones either as long as they've made sure the
phone company has programmed their line with the appropriate class of
service (a fancy telcom term which is roughly the analog of "attributes"
in the computing realm).

> Another note:  The phone in question here was right next door to the CO.
> I could have walked over and told them about this.  I doubt this will work
> outside of Ameritech territory.

As long as its not an Ameritech phone they could care less.  In fact, they
would probably tell you to have at it.

> A third note (because my boss is standing over my shoulder):
> I am not responsible for (ab)uses of this information!  This is for
> educational purposes only.  Blah blah blah lawyers sue blah sue sue :)

Well, the way the Clinton administration has been pushing, even having
this information in your head is a crime.  That rat bastard.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 19:04:33 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To:  from "Brett Crapser" at Dec 8, 98 06:53:37 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Tue Dec  8 19:06:00 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To:  from "Doug Yowza" at Dec 8, 98 06:48:09 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Tue Dec  8 19:27:00 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: news on the c64
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 7, 98 07:34:43 pm
Message-ID: <199812090127.RAA11780@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 19:28:31 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking)
References: 
Message-ID: <366DD23F.81CB4011@cnct.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 gram@cnct.com wrote:
> > Yup. Linux Ain't Unix.  It Ain't Minix.  It ain't GNU, though it uses
> > Stallman's Copyleft.  Yes, every Linux distribution uses gagloads of
> > GNU material, properly attributed, all source available, and Stallman
> > has nothing to complain about except that people have been making
> > money selling free software.  (That's free as in something other than
> > the price -- Open Source).
> 
> Why would he complain about that? I understand it may be against his
> philosophy, and RedHat-like products may not be the best examples of Linux
> (KDE is probably the worst example of Linux though it's getting shipped
> with every major distribution...) but how does he expect GNU software to
> get distributed? Someone has to make money along the line...what we need
> is to get back to the old days when people shared tips on how to speed up
> their computers by soldering in a couple of diodes. In those days, it
> wasn't as necessary to ruin software in order to distribute it. I got to
> use dial-up bulletin board systems for about three years, and I liked them
> more than the commercial internet, which killed these off, and harmed the
> sort of scientific-academic-university spirit that was previously more
> common among computer users.

The QT toolkit that KDE is based on is now fully open source.  And
it _wasn't_ shipped with RedHat.  If you can name a RedHat module
without open source, I'll eat a source listing.  Aside from CDE, 
Motif, ApplixWare and other things that were commercial or released
with the GNU library license before Linus Torvalds started college,
actually.  A lot of stuff seems to be going open source lately.  And
at least as much information shows up per month on the "commercial"
Internet as happened per decade when it was "free" to 
"scientific-academic-university spirit" users (at taxpayer expense)
-- and most of the previous BBS _owners_ have moved to the Net, even
most of the ones who used to write BBS software and sell it or
give it away.  My BBS calls in the mid-80s tended to cost me $100 or
more per month -- serious beer money -- in "local" calls.  My ISP
subscription is a bit less.  Admittedly the quality of Usenet has
gone downhill since the days when I could manage a full feed -- and
pass it on -- at 1200 baud.

RMS is essentially Trotskyite, he's basing things things on
traditional (failed) economic models.  Stallman grew up in the
heyday of Marxism in American universities, Linus came of age as
European socialism was failing (though you'll have a job
convincing the associated governments of that -- they have guns,
their citizens generally don't).  Linus uses an anarchosyndicalist
model, which works fine.  I prefer the anarchocapitalist model.
Anarchosyndicalists and Anarchocapitalists get along fine as long as
the State stays out of the way.  Marxism is welcome to compete with
those models on the open market -- it works in small communities as
long as they allow the right of pedal franchise.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From rcini at msn.com  Tue Dec  8 19:04:29 1998
From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Byte Mag Indes (was Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next)
Message-ID: <00c101be2311$be00eb20$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>

On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:00:59 -0600 (CST), Doug Yowza  wrote:

>>Oh boy.  I've had a back-burner BYTE index project that I moved forward by
>>almost a millimeter last weekend.  How far along are you on putting
>>together an index?

    This is not a complete indexing project; I don't have the time to do
that.

    I have about 75 or so issues from 1978 to 1987. I'm culling the index
for classic-related articles: reviews, home brewing projects, type-yourself
programs, and the like. I've left out all of the regular "departments" and
generally, the generic articles. As you may know, each Byte magazine had a
particular focus, such as the "Logo" issue, or the "Forth" issue. Some of
these articles made it; some didn't.

    I'm in1982 now, and I have about 200 entries in an Excel spreadsheet.
When I'm done, I'll post my TofC. Eventually, I'd like to make it a DHTML
Web page.

[  Rich Cini/WUGNET
[   ClubWin!/CW7
[   MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[   Collector of "classic" computers
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================   reply   separator  =================>






From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Tue Dec  8 19:30:01 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: news on the c64
In-Reply-To: <199812080312.UAA05282@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Dec 7, 98 08:12:34 pm
Message-ID: <199812090130.RAA03980@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Tue Dec  8 19:32:08 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 7, 98 06:14:39 pm
Message-ID: <199812090132.RAA10194@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Tue Dec  8 19:34:11 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: news on the c64
In-Reply-To: <199812090130.RAA03980@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 08, 1998 05:30:01 PM
Message-ID: <199812090134.SAA11114@calico.litterbox.com>

> Yeah, it's amazing how much hardware support is out there. More over, it's
> amazing how many people are buying it. I consider myself a Commodore freak,
> and I basically use a vanilla 128DCR (no REU, no SuperCPU). There are people
> out there who using a trick of the RAMLink unit have 32MB in their machines,
> plus the 65816 SuperCPU, Turbo232 ACIA cartridge, the hard drives, etc. 

Heh.  Scarier still is someone wrote an OS for the 64 that includes an IP stack.

So much for this notion that 8 bit machines can't go on the net. :)   Hey,
now that I have a 64... hmmm... how to get data from my PC to the 64 with
no modem or serial port.. hmmm...

-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 19:35:31 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > I think the infatuation with the Altair today is due to reporters and
> > popular writers repeating each other over and over that the Altair was
> > "the first personal computer", which is nonsense.  Low-priced personal
> 
> I think that's _exactly_ the reason. And it's worrying, mainly because 
> history is being massively distorted by this.

Not really.  As long as their are fools like us to set things straight
then the true history of computing will survive.  Interest in computer
history is growing (I see it in this part of the country at least) and
reporters will hopefully become more savvy of the real history of the
microcomputer revolution as they start to write more in depth articles,
rather than the basic re-hashed lame-o story that you always see
(Altair->Apple->IBM->Microsoft).  Also, as more and more computer museums
are established (The Computer Museum History Center over here in Mountain
View finally found a location to build their permanent musuem) and start
getting better funding for research, new texts will be written that go
more into detail about the early days of the microcomputer boom and stuff
that went on before the Altair will start to come to light.  In fact, I
just thought it would be great to make next year's VCF theme "Before the
Altair: The Evolution of the Microcomputer".

> Looking at the UK electronics magazines for the early 1970's, it's clear 
> that there was going to be a homebuilt computer pretty soon. There were 
> designs for analogue machines, assorted robotic projects (mostly, again, 

This is where it comes in handy having old timers like Allison around to
tell us stories of their early days.

Us: Auntie Allison, tell us about the early days of microcomputing.
Allison: Well, in my day, we didn't have these fancy GUIs and Plug n Play.
We had to write our own operating systems!  And we had to haul ASR-33
terminals across bridges just so we could type in our programs.  That is,
if you were lucky enough to find a terminal!  Usually we had to build our
own from lights & switches...

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Dec  8 19:42:28 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
Message-ID: <199812090142.AA08749@world.std.com>

< > After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
< > hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
< > underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't
< > really great machines, like a Ferarri or whatever, and that
< > the BASIC software for it wasn't very innovative.
< 
< 
< That's basically my view.

Same here.  Historically important but generally poor design.

I'd say machines like the NorthStar Horizon, CCS 2xxx series and 
CompuPro systems did more to put systems in business and other non 
hobby applications.  I have several old enough to vote and they still 
run well.

< > Also the Altair was a very open hardware platform, you had
< > the schematics, you got the educational experience of 

No one would have bought it without!  Assembling it would have been far 
harder too!




From DaveyGF at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 19:29:56 1998
From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
Message-ID: 

Doug,

I didn't make any claims that MITS calculator was on par with HP.

David


From eric at brouhaha.com  Tue Dec  8 19:45:04 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking)
In-Reply-To: <366DD23F.81CB4011@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:28:31 -0500)
References:  <366DD23F.81CB4011@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19981209014504.13334.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Ward Donald Griffiths III  wrote:
> If you can name a RedHat module
> without open source, I'll eat a source listing.

Netscape Navigator
Netscape Communicator
RealAudio player
BRU
Accelerated-X
Red Baron

How big a source listing are you willing to eat?  Does it have to be on
greenbar paper, or will an A-size laser-printed listing do?


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 19:50:12 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:

> In fact, I just thought it would be great to make next year's VCF theme
> "Before the Altair: The Evolution of the Microcomputer". 

I thought that was this year's theme.  BTW, define microcomputer, so we
can argue about which was first (wait, by your definition, the F14 was
the first microcomputer, right? :-)

If you drop "microcomputer" out of your theme, we might acutally be able
to exhibit some theme machines.

-- Doug



From DaveyGF at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 19:36:47 1998
From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
Message-ID: 

The $12,000 bid DID actually happen.  She didn't win the auction.  I think no
one reached that particular auction price since the reserve was not met.  

Anyways, its just a way to hype my website.. Heheh.

Daivd


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 19:59:59 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 DaveyGF@aol.com wrote:

> I didn't make any claims that MITS calculator was on par with HP.

Sorry, reading more closely, I see you were just posting an ad from ebay:

<< 
This extremely rare calculator has a red LED display and the usual four
functions (+, -, *, and /) as well as square root, 1/x, x^2, percent, and
memory keys. It was marketed about the same time that Hewlett Packard got
into the business.
>>

The calc was made in the 70's and HP got into the calc biz in the 60's, so
it's factually wrong, and including HP in the sentence seems to be a
non-sequitur.

By 1974, probably close to when the MITS calc was made, HP had introduced
the HP65, which was basically a hand-held computer, and in a league of its
own (my first "computer").

-- Doug



From gareth.knight2 at which.net  Tue Dec  8 19:58:52 1998
From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:01 2005
Subject: x86 OS's
Message-ID: <02e101be2318$146b0da0$6865a8c2@gareth.knight2>

Hans Franke wrote:
>The Web-Disk runs perfectly on a 8 MB machine and I can't find any
>information to have 640K plus 8MB, which would be a rather unusual
>configuration for a PC, since you need a 12 SIMM slot board with
>8x1MB + 4x256K, And 256 KB SIMs have been only a very short
>time (back in the age of '286es and '386es) widely available.


What type of machine are you trying to boot it on? I've tried to run in on a
Compaq 486 33MHz with 8Mb. It goes through the booting process until it
reachs 100% and then states that the machine does not have enough memory to
run. Of course I have no idea about PC memory, the Amiga appears simple
compared to a PC :)

Also, the Compaq has a weird non-standard interface that connects the 3.5
IDE hard drive to the board. Does anyone know where you can find these type
of connectors in the UK. I've tried Compaq but they say that they haven't
had any of these for years.
--
Gareth Knight
Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856
   http://welcome.to/aig    | "Shine on your star"




From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 20:03:37 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 DaveyGF@aol.com wrote:

> The $12,000 bid DID actually happen.  She didn't win the auction.  I think no
> one reached that particular auction price since the reserve was not met.  

I asked the seller about that auction shortly after it ended.  Believe me,
he was ready and willing to sell to either of the top two bidders for
their bids, and both bidders backed out.

I think the highest recorded sale for an Altair was around $5000, which is
still absurd, but only by an order of magnitude or so.

-- Doug



From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 20:15:11 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
References: <199812090142.AA08749@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <366DDD2F.87EE5A3C@cnct.com>

Allison J Parent wrote:
> 
> < > After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
> < > hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
> < > underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't
> < > really great machines, like a Ferarri or whatever, and that
> < > the BASIC software for it wasn't very innovative.
> <
> <
> < That's basically my view.
> 
> Same here.  Historically important but generally poor design.
> 
> I'd say machines like the NorthStar Horizon, CCS 2xxx series and
> CompuPro systems did more to put systems in business and other non
> hobby applications.  I have several old enough to vote and they still
> run well.

Hell, Allison, your Horizon should be about old enough to drink.
Legally, if silicon-based lifeforms had rights, and could get ID.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From DaveyGF at aol.com  Tue Dec  8 19:38:49 1998
From: DaveyGF at aol.com (DaveyGF@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
Message-ID: <11f5582.366dd4a9@aol.com>

Don't forget the S-100 bus was really invented at MITS on the Altair.


From mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu  Tue Dec  8 20:22:38 1998
From: mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: <199812090132.RAA10194@oa.ptloma.edu>; from Cameron Kaiser on Tue, Dec 08, 1998 at 05:32:08PM -0800
References:  <199812090132.RAA10194@oa.ptloma.edu>
Message-ID: <19981208202238.02081@zen.as.utexas.edu>

I remember back in '98 when Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> ::Not to bash the //gs, but I'm not sure it has the horsepower to view PDF
> ::files.  I've seen how long it can take on a 486, and even on something like
> ::my 604e/180, it can take quite a while.  It isn't exactly a fast format.
> 
> Screw rendering it -- I just want to read the bloody thing. If I can crack
> the format, all the 64 will be doing is turning it into PETSCII.

Watch out--some pdf's are just 75-100dpi images of the page.  This
seems to be especially common for old data sheets and the like 
upgraded to the "new" system.

		Matt

-- 
/* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@zen.as.utexas.edu -- atwork?astronomy:cs
   http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler   -- (512)471-7450
   Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */


From amirault at epix.net  Tue Dec  8 20:26:09 1998
From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: IBM PCjr
References: <18d71538.366c9fbf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <366DDFC1.FCDDE2CD@epix.net>

Superdave,
  I will boot the computer tomorrow and write down the errors. As far as the SCSI
cards go I think I can still get a few @ PC Enterprises in Belmar, N.J.

 I just want to get the CDROM working, doesn't matter to me if I have any disks to
use now as I will try to find some DOS based CD's, I hope they exist.

SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> a PCjr version of a scsi card? if so, that's certainly a rarity! there wont be
> much you can do with a cdrom on a jr unless you're reading your own cds. what
> kind of write errors are you getting? have you tried clean booting using F5?
> partition size <32meg?
>
> In a message dated 12/7/98 10:25:44 PM EST, amirault@epix.net writes:
>
> << >  I have  one of the old IBM Edsels and I am currently trying to get the
>  > TMC850jr SCSI card I have to get a CDROM to work on it. Can anyone give me
>  > any
>  > clues as to how to do this? Can it be done at all?
>  >
>  >  I also have the combo cartridge V3.0 in this machine and upgraded the
>  > harddrive from DOS 5.0 to DOS 6.22 and now I keep getting write errors when
>  > I
>  > try to install programs onto the harddrive. Any help here?
>  >
>  >    Thanks everyone.
>  >
>  >     John Amirault >>





From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 20:41:47 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking)
References:  <366DD23F.81CB4011@cnct.com> <19981209014504.13334.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <366DE36B.64E85696@cnct.com>

Eric Smith wrote:
> 
> Ward Donald Griffiths III  wrote:
> > If you can name a RedHat module
> > without open source, I'll eat a source listing.
> 
> Netscape Navigator
> Netscape Communicator
> RealAudio player
> BRU
> Accelerated-X

These were not by Red Hat, though supplied on the disk.  And I never
could get the supplied RealAudio player to work.  Never even tried the
Acc-X server -- it didn't support a chipset I could test it on that
XFree86 didn't support just fine.  (But I do remember a time when BRU
was mostly a set of shell scripts for Tandy Xenix -- Linus probably
wasn't in high school yet).

> Red Baron
> 
> How big a source listing are you willing to eat?  Does it have to be on
> greenbar paper, or will an A-size laser-printed listing do?

I'll have the source diff from Mosaic on A-size -- forgot about that
experiment, which I still prefer to MS Internet Exploiter.  Hell, I
prefer uucp to MS Internet Exploder.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Tue Dec  8 20:37:03 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Free Software (Was Re: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking))
Message-ID: <001e01be231c$d0c54c00$9c021a26@maxeskin>

That's fine, except that's not what the GNU license allows him to do.
> "I have nothing against people who sell
>software, and they should have nothing against me for forbidding >them from
using my software in the software they sell."
>
>--Chuck
>



From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Tue Dec  8 20:48:59 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > 
> > After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
> > hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
> > underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't 
> 
> That's basically my view.

Also, forgot to add - the subject 'Altair Collectors Association' is
a little take off on the radio group 'Collins Collector Association'
except that Collins gear is expensive, but darn good radios.

> > actually building and usually repairing it; the more
> 
> Sure. But there were other build-it-yourself machines that have not 
> attracted the prices of the Altair. Things like the 'Hewart Mini 6800'. 
> or the 'PE CHAMP'. Or the various Elektor computers. Or the Science of 
> Cambridge MK14 (although that one is somewhat expensive now). Or the 
> Nascom. All came as kits. Most of them are a few 10s of dollars 

Well, it may just be a case of marketing in a popular journal, but
NONE of the above appeared on my radar screen as a curious teenager
in nowhere West Virginia, USA at that time. 

Points well taken.

	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com




From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Tue Dec  8 22:36:35 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: FYI  HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.16.19981208145600.2ecffd62@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981208223635.3a776e4e@intellistar.net>

At 11:19 PM 12/8/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >IIRC they're simply mirror images of each other. But the plugs are 
>> >slightly different so you can't plug the cable into the wrong socket
anyway.
>> 
>>    I haven't tried it but that's not what HP says.
>
>I've just tried it with a spare HP-HIL cable and keyboard. The plugs 
>_will_ fit in the wrong sockets, but they won't lock. So if the plug fits 
>_and_ clicks in place it's right.
>
>Incidentally, one plug/socket is black and the other is white/clear, at 
>least on this cable/keyboard.

  Hmm. I haven't noticed that. I'll have to take a look at mine.
>
>I was right about the wiring being a mirror image. That's exactly what it is.
>
   Strange.  Why would they key the ends then?
>
>>   I think there is an addressing limitation but HP says that you'll usually
>> run into the  power limitation first.  I'm not sure how you're supposed to
>> know when you do unless the whole system chokes.
>
>Odd... HP-HIL devices dont take that much power in general. On a 
>large-ish 9000 system, I would think the PSU could easily cope with quite 
>a chain of devices.

   Assuming the entire output of the PS is available to the chain.  That's
a big assumetion!
>
>> >> there's only one piece of software for the HP 150 Touch Screen II
that will
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>> >I'm pretty sure that can use the HP-HIL mouse 
>> >on a 150-II.
>> 
>>   Yes, but not the standard 150. The TS-II uses the HP_HIL devices, the 150
>> uses a non-standard keyboard.
>
>The original HP150 uses a special keyboard and touchscreen interface. If 
>you want HP-HIL it's on an expansion card. In the HP150-II, HP-HIL is 
>standard and the keyboard and touchscreen are both on the HP-HIL interface.
>
>But you mentioned 'Touch Screen II' earlier. That's why I was so suprised 
>that only one piece of software used the mouse on that system.

   Yes, I was surprised at that too.  I wondered why I couldn't get the
mouse to work on the TS-II.  I finally found one of the 150 designers and
asked him.  He's the one that said that only DrawPerfect used the mouse.

  Joe



From gram at cnct.com  Tue Dec  8 21:05:27 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Free Software (Was Re: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking))
References: <001e01be231c$d0c54c00$9c021a26@maxeskin>
Message-ID: <366DE8F7.91D8CA3F@cnct.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> That's fine, except that's not what the GNU license allows him to do.
> > "I have nothing against people who sell
> >software, and they should have nothing against me for forbidding >them from
> using my software in the software they sell."

And if he doesn't like the wording of the FSF license, he should have
written it differently.  He had the option.  It was his pencil.  And
his words.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Dec  8 21:08:21 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: <366DAE02.4EB43B8A@cnct.com>
References: <199812081201.MAA14427@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: 

>Reading the HOWTOs is not cheating.  It's the best thing that the
>free software movement come out with since the CopyLeft.  (Linux
>documentation -- the Networking materials especially -- is better
>than anything I've ever gotten from vendors, and helped me get
>"commercial" software working despite tech support's best efforts).

I've got to agree there.  I've been doing Linux since January of '92, and
even then after a only about three months it had better documentation that
OpenBSD has now!  The Linux HOWTOs are awsome!

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Tue Dec  8 21:08:51 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:


> As you probably know, the Scelbi-8H came well before the Altair and had a
> similar price.  But the Altair got a cover story in Popular Electronics,
> and the Scelbi didn't.  Of course, the Mark-8 got an even earlier cover

A Mark-8 is on my list of things to watch out for - as I, like many
others, attempted it but failed - but I'm not holding my breath. It
would be interesting to run the Scelbi 8008 BASIC on (SCELBAL).

> 
> I think the infatuation with the Altair today is due to reporters and
> popular writers repeating each other over and over that the Altair was
> "the first personal computer", which is nonsense.  Low-priced personal

Now I'm scared - me and the popular press agree! That is, it was
MY first personal computer, which is a fact. As you well know, once
people start into 'whose on first', distinctions start to blur -
"No, Charlie Babbage had the 'first' personal computer', 'No! - it
was Yang Lin's Abacus that was the 'first' personal computer', heheh.
It would be just as arbitrary so say a club of 5 people with
machine 'X' don't count, but suddenly a group of 2000 with machine
'Y' makes 'Y' the 'first'. 

Anyway, back to saving data...  :))


	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com





From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Mon Dec  7 21:12:45 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: old(ish) computers for sale
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981207174629.59eff5ee@ricochet.net>

At 10:31 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Take a 3.5 volt top hat LED.  Spread the leads to the proper
>width and apply (I would recommend using a pair of pliers)
>to a fresh 9 volt transistor radio battery.  I got shards of
>red plastic embedded in my fingers that way once.

Sounds like fun, but PLEASE -- WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!  I can say from
experience that glass (or plastic) in your eye is no fun at all.  (nor is
fuzzy eyesight/blindness.)

WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!



--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Mon Dec  7 21:12:46 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981207181457.294736ee@ricochet.net>

At 08:36 AM 12/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>the basement.  The article compendiums that are offered for Byte,
>DDJ, etc. are interesting, but so are the ads, and they aren't included.

The NatGeo CD's that are out (around $150) have the ads as well, I
understand.  I suspect someone will do the same with some of the better
known computer mags as well at some point.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Tue Dec  8 21:26:44 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> > In fact, I just thought it would be great to make next year's VCF theme
> > "Before the Altair: The Evolution of the Microcomputer". 
> 
> I thought that was this year's theme.  BTW, define microcomputer, so we

This year didn't really have a theme.  No, I take that back.  This year's
theme was "Old Computers are Cool!"

> can argue about which was first (wait, by your definition, the F14 was
> the first microcomputer, right? :-)

Um, yeah!  Depending on how you define microcomputer, the F14A CADC
definitely takes thi honor.  However, I've finally gotten that info on the
Four Phase AL1 I've been talking about and that may add some new fuel to 
the controversy.

> If you drop "microcomputer" out of your theme, we might acutally be able
> to exhibit some theme machines.

Ok, fine.  "Before the Altair: Computers That Didn't Suck"

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From healyzh at aracnet.com  Tue Dec  8 21:34:41 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: news on the c64
In-Reply-To: <199812090134.SAA11114@calico.litterbox.com>
References: <199812090130.RAA03980@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at
 Dec 08, 1998 05:30:01 PM
Message-ID: 

>Heh.  Scarier still is someone wrote an OS for the 64 that includes an IP
>>stack.

One of these days I've got to find the space to get my C64 set back up.
It's just too cool of a machine to soup up :^)  BTW, I was a rabid hater of
the C-64 when it was available since it came out about 4 months after I got
the VIC-20 I worked all summer for.

>So much for this notion that 8 bit machines can't go on the net. :)   Hey,
>now that I have a 64... hmmm... how to get data from my PC to the 64 with
>no modem or serial port.. hmmm...

X1542 cable so you can attach the C1541 drive to your PC.  Or, a Catweasel
board in an Amiga.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Dec  8 21:40:23 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: VAX collectors attention
In-Reply-To: <032601be20c7$7d38ae80$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic
 .edu.au>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209143125.00a44b30@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 01:50 PM 06-12-98 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote:

I wrote:

>>Excuse me, I've still got one in production and a couple of spares in my
>>"spares" room....
>
>
>I think you should open your spares room to the public and charge admission.
>:^)

Well, anyone passing is more than welcome to drop in and I'll provide a
guided tour for free. In the near future I'm going to have the Fifth Annual
Junk Room Clearance. I guess this will only be of interest to local readers
but I'll attempt to provide a list of what we plan to junk.


 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479 1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Tue Dec  8 20:31:37 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <19981208.203139.215.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

Joe:

I could sure use this.  WHat sort of trades are you looking for?

Jeff

On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 14:17:39 Joe  writes:
>Commodore marked cable with a card edge connector on one end and a
>male/female GPIB connectors on the other. Contact me if interested.
>
>  Joe
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Tue Dec  8 21:51:44 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Ok guys, Tomb it may concern in the Altair Collectors Association:

Today I got home, genuflect before the Golden Altair, made some
clean dumps of some BASIC programs and converted them to MP3 files,
largely for proof of concept, but also to see if these are small
enough for swapping via the Internet. A "Startrek" version came
out about 1.3Mb. They play very clearly and load w/o problem here.
If anyone else can get software into this format I'd love to
hear about it, as I only have one known good tape and don't like
typing in listings.

Results posted at http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger

Std. Disclaimer.

	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com




From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Dec  8 22:04:01 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
Message-ID: <199812090404.AA28468@world.std.com>

< Of course, to tie in the other Altair thread, the Intellec, for all it 
< was the first CP/M machine, is nowhere near as valuable as an Altair...

Actually the altair disk system was rather hard to adapt to CPM and most 
people used a non altair system for that.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Dec  8 22:04:08 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
Message-ID: <199812090404.AA28537@world.std.com>

< Us: Auntie Allison, tell us about the early days of microcomputing.

By then I was an Aunt...

< Allison: Well, in my day, we didn't have these fancy GUIs and Plug n Pla

Well we did, they were funny to look at so we didn't bother being learned 
to read write and cypher. 

< We had to write our own operating systems!  And we had to haul ASR-33

Yes and it was fun to do.  Even if we didn't have and assembler yet.

< terminals across bridges just so we could type in our programs.  That is

It was only the boardwalk.  But it was the pre-betting era so thre were 
few profitiable things there.

< if you were lucky enough to find a terminal! 

They abounded... uppercase only 1200 baud and expensive!!!!

< Usually we had to build our own from lights & switches...

Lots of lights... well they were leds and only red ones.  

Of course that was when homebrewed was self assembled and not referring 
to a microbrew.  The latter was called programming fluid (coffee, beer
or Coke).

Allison


< 
< Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@sicon
< ------------------------------------------------------------------------
< Always being hassled by the man.
< 
<                   Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
<                    See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
<                         [Last web site update: 12/07/98]
< 



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Dec  8 22:04:29 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
Message-ID: <199812090404.AA28785@world.std.com>


< Hell, Allison, your Horizon should be about old enough to drink.
< Legally, if silicon-based lifeforms had rights, and could get ID.

Officially the CPU and MDS disk are 21 as they were assembled in early 
1977. The s100 crate was an early '78 assembly so that's only 20.  It
turns 21 in two months.  It's still in use.

Allison



From allisonp at world.std.com  Tue Dec  8 22:04:36 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
Message-ID: <199812090404.AA28849@world.std.com>

< Don't forget the S-100 bus was really invented at MITS on the Altair.

The mits version of it was not the most compatable version and by 79
it was the most incompatable version.  It was a poorly conceived bus
and badly organized.  The fact that systems worked using it was a result 
of other vendors efforts to clean it up.  Even MITS had to toss in the 
towel and do an 8800B.

The signals on the 100 pin connector are identical to the intellec8I.

Allison



From Arlen.Michaels.amichael at nt.com  Tue Dec  8 22:28:15 1998
From: Arlen.Michaels.amichael at nt.com (Arlen Michaels)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag?
Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8C9B755@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com>

	On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, "Richard A. Cini, Jr."  wrote:

> Does anyone have the 1/83 issue of Byte Magazine? In it is part 3 of an
> article by Steve Ciarcia about the MPX-16 PC-compatible SBC. I have parts
> 1
> and 2, so I need the third.
> 
I see Barry beat me to it and found the article for you.  I actually have
Ciarcia's original prototypes for the MPX-16 motherboard, and some paperwork
from his project file.  

Do you suppose I should e-bay them into university tuition for my kids?  :)

If you can't find what you need in the Byte article, it's possible there's
more info buried in the notes I got from Steve.

Arlen
--
Arlen Michaels     amichael@nortelnetworks.com



From Arlen.Michaels.amichael at nt.com  Tue Dec  8 22:28:16 1998
From: Arlen.Michaels.amichael at nt.com (Arlen Michaels)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Finished posting 8800b Manual/Next
Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8C9B756@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com>

	On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, "Barry A. Watzman"  wrote:

> Myself and another individual are trying to find the source of a =
> magazine article which describes a modification to the IMSAI CP-A front =
> panel.
> 
> The title of the article is "The Slow-Stepping Debugger" by Howard =
> Bendrot.
> 
> We believe that it was published between 1976 and 1979, probably in =
> 1977.  We believe it is likely that it was published in Kilobaud =
> Microcomputing magazine, and there is some suspicion that it may have =
> been on Page 60.  But none of this is confirmed, and we don't have these =
> magazines to verify this.
> 
> Can anyone identify the Magazine, issue and page number of this article =
> for certain ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Barry Watzman
> 
I have the article in front of me.  It is indeed on p. 60 of  Kilobaud,
issue #4, April 1977.  It's a one-page description of how to alter the
single-step mode to add a slow-step capability (so you don't have to keep
pounding on the step switch).

Arlen
--
Arlen Michaels     amichael@nortelnetworks.com



From altair8800 at hotmail.com  Tue Dec  8 23:01:43 1998
From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
Message-ID: <19981209050143.27843.qmail@hotmail.com>


>From: Doug Yowza 

>
>I think the highest recorded sale for an Altair was around $5000, which 
is
>still absurd, but only by an order of magnitude or so.
>
>-- Doug

It was exactly $5000, Doug.  It was a pristine
perfect example.
But Uncle Sam will get well over $1K of it. So
think of it partly as a nice donation to your government
and all the good that money will do for us.

Bob Wood


Bob Wood







Bob Wood



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From yowza at yowza.com  Tue Dec  8 23:29:49 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
In-Reply-To: <19981209050143.27843.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Bob Wood wrote:

> It was exactly $5000, Doug.  It was a pristine perfect example.  But
> Uncle Sam will get well over $1K of it. So think of it partly as a nice
> donation to your government and all the good that money will do for us. 

No way!  You're doing untraceable cash transactions over the internet and
reporting the money as income?!

I hope you were able to sell a couple to that guy from Microsoft who
burned a bunch of cash on Altairs in New Mexico recently.  Or are you
saving the unassembled kit for BillG himself?  Don't settle for less that
$400M!  If he'll pay that for Hotmail, he'd certainly pay it for an
Altair.

-- Doug



From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 00:39:00 1998
From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: VAX collectors attention
Message-ID: <002001be233e$a7c06160$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>

-----Original Message-----
From: Huw Davies 
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

Date: Wednesday, 9 December 1998 15:19
Subject: Re: VAX collectors attention


>Well, anyone passing is more than welcome to drop in and I'll provide a
>guided tour for free.

If I ever get to Melbourne again, I'll be sure and take you up on that. :^)

> In the near future I'm going to have the Fifth Annual
>Junk Room Clearance. I guess this will only be of interest to local readers

I guess I must be local on this scale.  I'd be interested. :^)

>but I'll attempt to provide a list of what we plan to junk.


It will make interesting reading I'm sure.


Cheers

Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie  South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
      61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
      61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
      61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)



From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 01:32:35 1998
From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: VAX 8350 in Houston,Texas.
Message-ID: <024b01be2346$241cc260$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>

Saw this in comp.os.vms
I'd take it myself, but I'd have to mortgage the Town Hall to pay the
freight.
Anyone want a VERY well equipped, complete, older Vax, with loads of parts
and docs etc?

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Rankin 
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Date: Tuesday, 8 December 1998 18:01
Subject: What is a VAX 8350 fully loaded worth?


>
>    A friend of mine has a VAX 8350 that he picked up recently.  It's quite
>a large setup, to say the least.  I was wondering if someone could tell me
>what I should get(at least) for it for him, and what I could get for it.
>Here's what it has:
>
>        VAX 8350 with 2 processors
>        SA482 Storage array loaded with 3 RA82(6.22MB) drives
That's a typo I think, they are 622Mb each.  And 64KG!
>        A giant 200amp power conditioner that looks just like the VAX
>        A TU81-Plus Tape drive
>        Two DMB32-M things.  I think that they are multiplexors
>                    Anyone know about them?
>        Two LA120 printers.  One DA model, and one AA model.
>        A LA75 printer
>        A VT420 terminal(JA model)
>        Five DECServer200/DL Terminal Servers.  Anyone know what
>                    the DL stands for?
>
>    I think that is all that is included, but I could be wrong.  I'm
>notreally sure as to what cards are in it(besides the TU81 Plus'
interface).
>
>    The box has absolutely TONS of packages from DEC on it with the
>licenses.  The manuals are all there, and many of them have extras that are
>shrinkrapped.  Many spare parts for the machine are new, and in DEC boxes,
>still wrapped.  There are boxes and boxes of new manuals, to give you an
>idea.
>
>    The machine was on maintenance until September of 1998.  Plus, as an
>added bonus, it has the whole Y2k support package.
>I do know that all of the packages are very recent versions, and that
>OpenVMS 7.0 is loaded on it.
>
>    It was used(until upgraded) with MANY terminals running off of it for
>basic business uses, and for calculating the lights(andtheir positions)
>needed in a stadium, and is in perfect condition.
>
>    Anyhow, anyone have any ideas on the pricing?  Perhaps a good outlet
for
>me to sell it?
>
>
>                                                Thanks in advance,
>                                                Kent Rankin



Cheers

Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie  South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
      61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
      61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
      61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)



From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Wed Dec  9 06:23:42 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Kaypro 2X questions
Message-ID: <366E6BCE.749BBFA7@bigfoot.com>

Just got an IMMACULATE Kaypro 2X machine, with all the original disks.
It doesn't have the keyboard cable though, but I imagine it will use the
same type as most terminal keyboards that have modular phone type
connectors? The port on back is clearly marked keyboard so no big deal
there.

Also on back is another modular, a little bigger but unmarked. Is this
possibly a modem or what else could it be?

Anyone have any manuals for the actual machine they want to sell, trade
or copy?



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 08:45:24 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
In-Reply-To: <19981208.203139.215.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209084524.47af69ae@intellistar.net>

Jeff,

  That one is sold but I have another one that's still new in the bag.  I'm
looking for anything for my Altair, anything for my Tektronix 4051 or HP
calculator or computer stuff. Machines, parts, manuals or whatever.

  Joe

At 08:31 PM 12/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Joe:
>
>I could sure use this.  WHat sort of trades are you looking for?
>
>Jeff
>
>On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 14:17:39 Joe  writes:
>>Commodore marked cable with a card edge connector on one end and a
>>male/female GPIB connectors on the other. Contact me if interested.
>>
>>  Joe
>>
>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>



From handyman at sprintmail.com  Tue Dec  8 19:34:34 1998
From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Kaypro 2X questions
References: <366E6BCE.749BBFA7@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: <366DD3AA.EC73ED48@sprintmail.com>

Russ Blakeman wrote:

> Just got an IMMACULATE Kaypro 2X machine, with all the original disks.
> It doesn't have the keyboard cable though, but I imagine it will use the
> same type as most terminal keyboards that have modular phone type
> connectors? The port on back is clearly marked keyboard so no big deal
> there.
>
> Also on back is another modular, a little bigger but unmarked. Is this
> possibly a modem or what else could it be?
>
> Anyone have any manuals for the actual machine they want to sell, trade
> or copy?


Yes just use a modular phone cord that will work. The other jack is a modem.

The 2X is the same model as the original 2 with the exception of double side
double density drives..  Also improved Green Phosphor screen, slow decay
(Nice tracers when typing fast)..
Does your computer have a dark charcol gray case and keyboard ?, Kaypro also
made 2X with the same case as the original II, Light Gray & powder blue with
the exception of the full  height drives ...
I own a Kaypro II, 2X, 4, 10, 16...
Also have some extra manuals so email me privatly and see what I can do..

Phil....






From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 10:12:25 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Unusual Apple keyboard
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209101225.25078c68@intellistar.net>

I found an odd Apple keyboard yesterday.  It says that it's an Apple
Adjustable keyboard.  The main keyboard hinges in the middle and you can
bend it so that each half faces out at and angle. It also has an oversize
space bar. The numeric keypad is a separate piece and connects by cable.
Besides the numeric keys, it has cursor keys, 15 Pf keys and Help, Home,
End, Page Up and Page Down keys. The keyboard also came with an Apple
Desktop Bus Mouse II.  Does anyone know anything about these?  I've never
seen one before but they look pretty neat.

  Joe



From dpeschel at u.washington.edu  Wed Dec  9 08:27:23 1998
From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Unusual Apple keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209101225.25078c68@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 10:12:25 am
Message-ID: <199812091427.GAA25656@saul9.u.washington.edu>

> I found an odd Apple keyboard yesterday.  It says that it's an Apple
> Adjustable keyboard.  The main keyboard hinges in the middle and you can
[...]
> Desktop Bus Mouse II.  Does anyone know anything about these?  I've never
> seen one before but they look pretty neat.

They are, but you may need software to get the full benefit of the keyboard.
I've never used them, but I think they were one of Apple's less stable
products, since Apple's FTP site has a number of drivers and patches to the
drivers for different hardware.  Hopefully you should find all the software
you need to get up and running.

-- Derek


From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Wed Dec  9 09:08:13 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: news on the c64
In-Reply-To: <199812090134.SAA11114@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Dec 8, 98 06:34:11 pm
Message-ID: <199812091508.HAA15364@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Dec  9 08:53:18 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <19981209.090817.211.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

Joe:

Okay, I have something that may interest you.  One of Northstar's
first products, was a floppy disk drive, that could be used with
Altairs (among others).  I have a pair of these 5.25" drives in an
aluminum/wooden cabinet.

There are inscriptions inside giving dates that it was built up, 
upgraded, etc.  I don't remember the exact dates, but it seems that
it was built in 1977.

I have reason to believe the drives are original; one still has the
N* nameplate attached thereto.  The wooden top cover is in decent 
shape, has a small bit of wood chipped from a front corner.

If this is interesting, I can get more particulars-- especially
corrolation of the dates with the actual Altair/Imsai/N* product
release timelines.

Jeff

On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:45:24 Joe  writes:
>Jeff,
>
>  That one is sold but I have another one that's still new in the bag. 
> I'm
>looking for anything for my Altair, anything for my Tektronix 4051 or 
>HP
>calculator or computer stuff. Machines, parts, manuals or whatever.
>
>  Joe
>
>At 08:31 PM 12/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Joe:
>>
>>I could sure use this.  WHat sort of trades are you looking for?
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 14:17:39 Joe  writes:
>>>Commodore marked cable with a card edge connector on one end and a
>>>male/female GPIB connectors on the other. Contact me if interested.
>>>
>>>  Joe
>>>
>>>
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at 
>http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Wed Dec  9 09:15:22 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: <19981208202238.02081@zen.as.utexas.edu> from "Matthew Sayler" at Dec 8, 98 08:22:38 pm
Message-ID: <199812091515.HAA04838@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 10:15:28 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981208090743.00b13670@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: <199812091516.PAA20309@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> However - I do see it as the 'Model-T' of PERSONAL computing - 
> sure everything had been done before but was usually priced
> out of the average joe/jane's reach unless they worked in a
> research institute or business, in which case they weren't
> always allowed free reign to do whatever they wanted.

Hmm I don't know - the Modell T ?
I guess this one goes to Apple, Commodore and Tandy.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 10:15:28 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: New Altair Computers website!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812091516.PAA20301@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> The $12,000 bid DID actually happen.  She didn't win the auction.  I think no
> one reached that particular auction price since the reserve was not met.  

> Anyways, its just a way to hype my website.. Heheh.

I just can't see the fun in degenerative actions :(

Gruss
H.

--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch


From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Dec  9 09:12:35 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: <19981208202238.02081@zen.as.utexas.edu>
References: <199812090132.RAA10194@oa.ptloma.edu>
 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981209091235.00efc230@pc>

At 08:22 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Matthew Sayler wrote:
>
>Watch out--some pdf's are just 75-100dpi images of the page.  This
>seems to be especially common for old data sheets and the like 
>upgraded to the "new" system.

That's not a bad thing.  Acrobat is a handy way to store and view
a sequence of images.  Image thumbnailers aren't bad, but aren't as
document-centric.

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Wed Dec  9 09:02:34 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <366DB4F1.51E9C32@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981209090234.00f04100@pc>

At 05:34 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote:
>According to the interview I read (from 1996), Stallman considers Linux to
>be the fullfillment of his mission to make Unix free, but he might be a
>bit unhappy that Linus is seen as the creator of something that couldn't
>have been pulled off without his help.  Linux would be a sorry joke
>without GNU.

Can't wait to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth with the first
release of the first Microsoft Linux CD.

- John



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 11:36:18 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Up for grabs: IBM 8" floppy drive
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209113618.485f03a6@intellistar.net>

Still house cleaning.  I scrapped an IBM 3274 but saved the floppy drive.
If anyone has a use for it, it's your's for $10 and shipping. It has a
connector for a ribbon cable and not the normal card edge connector and it
appears to be a double sided drive. I also have the manuals for the 3274
that I'll throw in.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 11:41:06 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net>

Still finding more junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures.  Found this video cable
but I have no idea what it's for. It looks like a 13W3 cable for a Sun
computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.  Send beer money plus
postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.

  Joe



From mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu  Wed Dec  9 09:47:08 1998
From: mpsayler at zen.as.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Scanning Fiche
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981209091235.00efc230@pc>; from John Foust on Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 09:12:35AM -0600
References: <199812090132.RAA10194@oa.ptloma.edu>  <19981208202238.02081@zen.as.utexas.edu> <3.0.5.32.19981209091235.00efc230@pc>
Message-ID: <19981209094708.41107@zen.as.utexas.edu>

I remember back in '98 when John Foust wrote:
> >Watch out--some pdf's are just 75-100dpi images of the page.  This
> >seems to be especially common for old data sheets and the like 
> >upgraded to the "new" system.
> That's not a bad thing.  Acrobat is a handy way to store and view
> a sequence of images.  Image thumbnailers aren't bad, but aren't as
> document-centric.

'tis if you're just trying to get a quick idea of a document.
(vs. text, that is).  I can't remember what the max. resoution
of a IIgs is, but I bet its a bit smaller than (8.5x11)x100.

I really hate scrolling a fractional viewport a document, but maybe
that's just me. 

		Matt

-- 
/* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@zen.as.utexas.edu -- atwork?astronomy:cs
   http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler   -- (512)471-7450
   Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */


From cfandt at netsync.net  Wed Dec  9 10:10:06 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Need an IBM 9309-2 Rack Enclosure
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209095541.00a90ce0@206.231.8.2>

Hi gang,  I need your help in finding something.

Some of you know I rescued an IBM 9370 system from my now-ex employer in
mid-'97. It is considered as a small mainframe; a CMOS version of the
S/370. I could only fit the racked components into the old house back then,
not the two rather large rack enclosures (too wide and deep and weighed
over 139 kg or 300+ pounds). Also, I certainly could not keep the 500+
pound 3262-5 printer! So, I had to scrap those large items.

At that time, I carefully stacked the DASD (disk drives) upon a sturdy
wooden crate and made a hefty roll-around pallet for the previously
rack-mounted 9375-60 Processor (weighs 132 kg or just over 290 pounds.) The
9347 tape drive was set upon the 9375-60. I cabled everything up and set to
getting it IPL'd. The system uses a PS/2 Model 30 (8086) as the System
Console and IPL device. Some sort of failure occured at IPL that I could
not debug so I let it set as we got rather busy looking for, buying, fixing
up and ultimately moving into this house.

It looks like I will be able to just squeeze a 9309-2 rack down through the
basement door and stairway in this new house. Therefore, I'm looking for a
single IBM 9309 Model 2 rack enclosure. Should be empty. I already have a
Power Control Compartment, operator panel and wiring I salvaged from the
old racks. A six or ten inch stabilizer (anti-tipover stabilizer) would
also be desired. 

The catch is that it should be sort of nearby my hometown in Western NY
State. Shipping would be too costly otherwise. I'm unemployed up to now and
should save my severance pay for real bills and more remodeling of this
house. See sig below for location. However, I can pay for gas money and
meals for anyone who rolls one into their pickup truck and hauls it out
here! :-)

You see, I have what is understood as being Serial Number One of the 9370
production release. My employer bought the first 9370 available when we
upgraded our data processing system in 1987 from the old Hewlett-Packard
HP250-30 system (which is also in my collection!). 

Now that we have a house in which a Model 2 rack enclosure should just fit
into the basement door and stairs, I want to give the 9375-60 processor,
9347 tape drive and several 9332-400 DASD's a decent place to live as it is
a bit historically significant being system S/N 1.

These 9309 racks were used not just for 9370's but for other IBM machines
such as the early AS/400's and other systems and/or their mass storage
devices, so they should be around. More and more of these old systems are
being taken out of service and usually junked nowadays.

Let me know if you hear of or have any 9309-2 racks!! Or even the shorter
9309-1 racks (need two of 'em then.)

Thanks so much for the help! 

Sincerely,  Chris
-- --
=======================================================
Christian R. Fandt              Phone: +716-488-1722  
31 Houston  Avenue           email:  cfandt@netsync.net   
Jamestown, New York       
14701-2627    USA             




From jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu  Wed Dec  9 10:30:47 1998
From: jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu (John Ott)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: To Frank McConnell, hp9000
In-Reply-To: <199810060532.WAA28294@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Oct 5, 98 10:32:41 pm
Message-ID: <199812091630.LAA11542@maddog.ee.nd.edu>

Hello -

Frank, I couldn't find your email address, so I'm posting to this lis.
I have a HP9000 series 500 doing nothing but holding down the floor.
Are you interested in a trade?

john
> 
> Doug Yowza  wrote:
> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> > represented on this list. 
> 
> Hmm, any other HP9000 series 500 owners out there?  (I have a 520, but
> would like to hear from anyone who has any FOCUS-architecture 9000s.)
> 
> -Frank McConnell
> 


-- 

***********************************************************************
* John Ott                         *  Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu     *
* Dept. Electrical Engineering     *                                  *
* 275 Fitzpatrick Hall             *                                  *
* University of Notre Dame         *  Phone: (219) 631-7752           *
* Notre Dame, IN 46556        USA  *                                  *
***********************************************************************



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Dec  9 10:39:05 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981209090234.00f04100@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Can't wait to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth with the first
> release of the first Microsoft Linux CD.

You mean the embraced and extended, and subsequently bug-ridden,
distribution of Linux?  No thanks, I'll stick with what works right and as
it was intended.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 12:25:33 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <199812091726.RAA09419@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > That's roughly how it is in the UK at the moment. All devices 'directly 
> > or indirectly connected' to the phone system have to be approved. This 
> > includes acoustic couplers, BTW, which have to be unable to send certain 
> > tones down the line.

> Why?  Is the UK public network still using in-band signaling?  We can't
> blue box in the states anymore.  Most of the switches nationwide have been
> upgraded to digital, out-of-band signaling.

:))

We never could blue box at all here in Germany :( Beside touch tone
dialing ant the unit pulse there has never been any signaling via
the line - and the unit pulse was only send from PBX to the phone.
Payment calculation has always been local within the payphone, back
in the '50s and '60s using relais driven electro mechanical counters
(covered by _real_ metall to avoide any influence thru strong electro
magnets :).

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 12:31:04 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: 
References: <366DAE02.4EB43B8A@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199812091732.RAA10046@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >> low. Try it - or read the MCA HOWTO (cheating). If you take

> >Reading the HOWTOs is not cheating.  It's the best thing that the
> >free software movement come out with since the CopyLeft.  (Linux
> >documentation -- the Networking materials especially -- is better
> >than anything I've ever gotten from vendors, and helped me get
> >"commercial" software working despite tech support's best efforts).

> I've got to agree there.  I've been doing Linux since January of '92, and
> even then after a only about three months it had better documentation that
> OpenBSD has now!  The Linux HOWTOs are awsome!

Of course the HOWTOs are a great thing - but they are still
written documentation - and reading manuals is cheating.

Althrough I have to admit that I found them also _very_ usefull.

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 12:54:16 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <366DB91B.CDFFAE5D@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199812091755.RAA11651@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > However - I do see it as the 'Model-T' of PERSONAL computing -
> > sure everything had been done before but was usually priced
> > out of the average joe/jane's reach unless they worked in a
> > research institute or business, in which case they weren't
> > always allowed free reign to do whatever they wanted.

> The Model-T systems of computers were the TRS-80, the Apple-2 and
> (hate to say it) the Pet.  Something that could be bought by a
> common citizen and made to work -- the computer buyer didn't have
> to be a serious programmer, the buyer of a Ford T didn't have to
> be a full-time mechanic.  While I know there were MITS-equivalent
> automobile projects published a century ago, none of the names
> seem to stand out.  Thinking on it, the Ford Model A was the
> equivalent of a TRS-80 Model One, the Model T was the equivalent
> of a Model 3.

Exact my point, but

> The Volkswagen was the equivalent of an IBM PC,
> right down to the fascist overseers of the design.

here I get some problems.

First of all I would compare  the C64 to the Volkswagen -
Already low end and overpriced when the production started,
outdated way before any production record and still sold
when _any_ other computer available was already better.

The VW was designed in the 30's but not build until the
'50s, to expensive at the start, and only a _very_ basic
car. And in the high time around 1960 to '75 the car was
completly outclassed - but sold in millions. Same for the
C64 - dat first only a fast developed simple machine to
be sold for less than a year, with only a minimum to run
and extremly expensive (thru the first year an Apple ][+
compatible syswtem was cheaper than any C64). Even, only
to use the build in features you had to get add on software.
When the sales roared, any other home computeer was already
better, but anyone was buying the C64 - like the Volkswagen ...

The IBM-PC (and all the folowing PCs) are in my view well
comperable to todays Volkswagen or Crysler cars - do one
design and add badges with brand names as needed (e.g.
Volkswagen creates a design and it is build as VW, Audi,
SEAT or Skoda).

Second, I can't catch the meaning of your words:
> right down to the fascist overseers of the design.

I can't see any 'facist' design around the Volkswagen.
Of course, the car was used as a propaganda instrument,
but the design was just top class of the '30s - right
among the top designs of the same time in the US - just
a bit smaler and simpler (like the C64 always remind me
of some IBM keyboards :)

> (For Ferarri parallels, go for Cromemco or Xerox).

I'm still looking for a Monteverdi type computer :)

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Wed Dec  9 12:07:28 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <199812091755.RAA11651@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 06:55:16 pm
Message-ID: <199812091807.KAA17186@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From cfandt at netsync.net  Wed Dec  9 12:08:44 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:02 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>

Doug Yowza  wrote:
> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> represented on this list. 

Anybody have an HP250-30, IBM 9370, Tektronix 31 (kinda like the 9825)?

Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list mentioning
they have a DG Nova 1200.

These are four are in my collection.

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 13:13:38 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: x86 OS's
In-Reply-To: <02e101be2318$146b0da0$6865a8c2@gareth.knight2>
Message-ID: <199812091814.SAA13607@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> Hans Franke wrote:
> >The Web-Disk runs perfectly on a 8 MB machine and I can't find any
> >information to have 640K plus 8MB, which would be a rather unusual
> >configuration for a PC, since you need a 12 SIMM slot board with
> >8x1MB + 4x256K, And 256 KB SIMs have been only a very short
> >time (back in the age of '286es and '386es) widely available.

> What type of machine are you trying to boot it on? I've tried to run in on a
> Compaq 486 33MHz with 8Mb. It goes through the booting process until it
> reachs 100% and then states that the machine does not have enough memory to
> run. Of course I have no idea about PC memory, the Amiga appears simple
> compared to a PC :)

PC mem is quite simple - just mem inside the address space ...
It's just that the marketing guys picked up some wiered terms
and managed to create must have buzz words. But I never get
the idea of the Amiga RAM ...

I booted the disk perfectly on a SIEMENS PCD-4G, thats a simple
standard ISA bus 486DX-33 machine with 8 Meg of mem, 112 MB
Connor HD, a pigy pack version of a standard Crius VGA card
and a 3COM EtherLink II networking card. Nothing fancy at all.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From eric at fudge.uchicago.edu  Wed Dec  9 12:19:13 1998
From: eric at fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Fujitsu 9-track tape drive available
Message-ID: <199812091819.MAA00301@fudge.uchicago.edu>

My boss has just told me to get rid of the Fujitsu 9-track tape drive
that's been sitting unused in the corner of our machine room for the
past several years.  It's about ten years old, its model number is
M2444A, and I think it uses an SMD interface.  It's in a 5-foot-tall
rack.  The bottom of the rack also contains three hard disks of unknown
capacity.

If you want it, you'll have to pick it up in Chicago.  Is anyone interested?

eric


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 13:36:14 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <366DDD2F.87EE5A3C@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199812091837.SAA14964@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > < > After reading some of the sentiments posted recently, what I'm
> > < > hearing is that the price of Altair's is a bubble without
> > < > underlying value, that is, they may be somewhat rare but aren't
> > < > really great machines, like a Ferarri or whatever, and that
> > < > the BASIC software for it wasn't very innovative.
> > < That's basically my view.
> > Same here.  Historically important but generally poor design.
> > I'd say machines like the NorthStar Horizon, CCS 2xxx series and
> > CompuPro systems did more to put systems in business and other non
> > hobby applications.  I have several old enough to vote and they still
> > run well.

> Hell, Allison, your Horizon should be about old enough to drink.
> Legally, if silicon-based lifeforms had rights, and could get ID.

Old enough to drink ? ID's ? Who the hell needs an ID to
get a beer - If your to young to drink (let's say five)
anybody could clearly see it - and if your older, nobody
will stop you ... crazy americanos :)

Hans

P.S.: In fact, I think, the most alcohol I handled thru my
      life was used to clean computers (Disk drives, tape
      drives, etc. :).

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 13:36:14 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: (Linux != UNIX)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981209090234.00f04100@pc>
References: 
Message-ID: <199812091837.SAA14967@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> At 05:34 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote:
> >According to the interview I read (from 1996), Stallman considers Linux to
> >be the fullfillment of his mission to make Unix free, but he might be a
> >bit unhappy that Linus is seen as the creator of something that couldn't
> >have been pulled off without his help.  Linux would be a sorry joke
> >without GNU.

> Can't wait to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth with the first
> release of the first Microsoft Linux CD.

*ROTFL*

Guess what - I won't call it impossible.
In fact I suggested it already on monday to
some colegues over here :)

Servus
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Wed Dec  9 13:36:14 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <199812091807.KAA17186@oa.ptloma.edu>
References: <199812091755.RAA11651@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 06:55:16 pm
Message-ID: <199812091837.SAA14958@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> ::First of all I would compare  the C64 to the Volkswagen -
> ::Already low end and overpriced when the production started,
> ::outdated way before any production record and still sold
> ::when _any_ other computer available was already better.

> HEY!

> The 64 beat all contenders with the SID chip, and the VIC-II was definitely
> par with the other computers out there with the possible exception of the
> Atari 8-bits (ANTIC still has an edge with that wonderful display list). And
> the price plummeted quickly -- it didn't stay at US$595 MSRP very long. 

???

Shure, par at the time it was introduced, but I said
'still sold when _any_ other computer available was already better'
Or would you realy take a C64 above any lets say Amiga ?
And even when new, the hardware of competitors (like the
mentioned Ataris) where at least equal and the '''OS'''
didn't match the Hardware at all.

And for the price, it took more than a year to get the
C64 down to 600 Mark (the price of an Atari).

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 14:44:58 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <199812091630.LAA11542@maddog.ee.nd.edu>
References: <199810060532.WAA28294@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209144458.3ee7cf8a@intellistar.net>


>> Doug Yowza  wrote:
>> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
>> > represented on this list. 
>> 

   Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?
AFIK I have the only Tek 4051.

  Joe



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Wed Dec  9 13:11:12 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <199812091837.SAA14958@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 07:37:14 pm
Message-ID: <199812091911.LAA13152@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From jpero at pop.cgocable.net  Wed Dec  9 08:43:01 1998
From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <199812091937.OAA13197@mail.cgocable.net>

> Date:          Wed, 09 Dec 1998 11:41:06
> Reply-to:      classiccmp@u.washington.edu
> From:          Joe 
> To:            "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" 
> Subject:       Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable

> Still finding more junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures.  Found this video cable
> but I have no idea what it's for. It looks like a 13W3 cable for a Sun
> computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
> pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
> the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.  Send beer money plus
> postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.
> 
>   Joe
> 
Thats for the microvax desktops and towers.  I have those type of 
connector on my bare motherboards.   Connects to sync on green 
monitors.


Jason D. 
email: jpero@cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.


From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec  9 13:44:25 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <000501be23ac$537869e0$3ef438cb@a.davie>

I've often wondered if my Datanumerics DL8A is the only one left.
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/datanumerics.html
Anyone else have one?
Cheers
A

> Doug Yowza  wrote:
> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> > represented on this list. 



From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 13:58:39 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209144458.3ee7cf8a@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

> 
> >> Doug Yowza  wrote:
> >> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> >> > represented on this list. 
> >> 
> 
>    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?
> AFIK I have the only Tek 4051.

No, I have one also.
						 - don
 
>   Joe
> 
> 


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Dec  9 13:42:09 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <19981209.140221.277.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

Sorry guys--
I'm sorry about all of the 
private mail here on the list.

I keep forgetting to watch those %$#^*&$*$#^ addresses!
Damn.

Jeff


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Dec  9 13:57:38 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <19981209.140221.277.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

I also own a 3b1.  
What was special about the model 310?

Jeff

On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 14:44:58 Joe  writes:
>
>>> Doug Yowza  wrote:
>>> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single 
>instance
>>> > represented on this list. 
>>> 
>
>   Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or 
>two?
>AFIK I have the only Tek 4051.
>
>  Joe
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Dec  9 14:01:08 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

Okay, tough guy!
Anybody else here have a Fluke 1720a?
It is a TMS-9900 based instrument controller 
that Fluke marketed until the early 90's.

Jeff

On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:08:44 -0500 Christian Fandt 
writes:
>Doug Yowza  wrote:
>> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single 
>instance
>> represented on this list. 
>
>Anybody have an HP250-30, IBM 9370, Tektronix 31 (kinda like the 
>9825)?
>
>Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list 
>mentioning
>they have a DG Nova 1200.
>
>These are four are in my collection.
>
>Regards,  Chris
>-- --
>Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
>Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
>Member of Antique Wireless Association
>        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 14:08:50 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Kaypro 2X questions
In-Reply-To: <366E6BCE.749BBFA7@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> Just got an IMMACULATE Kaypro 2X machine, with all the original disks.
> It doesn't have the keyboard cable though, but I imagine it will use the
> same type as most terminal keyboards that have modular phone type
> connectors? The port on back is clearly marked keyboard so no big deal
> there.
> 
> Also on back is another modular, a little bigger but unmarked. Is this
> possibly a modem or what else could it be?

It may be, Russ.  The 2X came toward the end of Kaypro's 8-bit production 
and they were not exactly 'purebred'.  In some cases they contained both 
modem and realtime clock which they inherited from the 4/84.  In others 
those were absent as denoted by the unpopulated area on the right hand 
side of the motherboard.  Still the same basic etch, just not fully 
populated.  Generally, if the modem was present, the jack was identified.
  
> Anyone have any manuals for the actual machine they want to sell, trade
> or copy?

They really did not exist.  Kaypro distributed a rather generic User 
Guide that dated back to the early machines, and application specific 
volumes for the bundled software and operating system.  

What are you looking for, I may be able to help.

						 - don 



From wpfulmor at dimensional.com  Wed Dec  9 15:27:27 1998
From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

> >    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?
                                       ^^^

Whazzat?

Anyway, I got ~~20 unixpc/7300/3b1 in various stages of operation -->
decomposition.  (Hi Jeff).

Bill 



From marvin at rain.org  Wed Dec  9 15:26:48 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Kaypro Robbie
References: <19981209.140221.277.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <366EEB18.78C909E3@rain.org>

A friend of mine has a Kaypro Robbie, and we got to talking about what it
might be worth.  Anyone on the list have any idea?  A number of us have
fairly sizeable collections, and from an insurance standpoint, it would be a
good idea to have an idea of what these machines are worth!


From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Wed Dec  9 15:31:20 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000601be23bb$436372c0$3ef438cb@a.davie>

I guess prototype 2650 S100 machines / cards qualify?  There must be a lot
of homebrew "single instance" machines lying around.  Here's one I'm
particularly fond of...
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html
This machine ran CP/M on a 2650 using a software 8080 emulator written in
2650.  Slowly!
Cheers
A



From cisin at xenosoft.com  Wed Dec  9 15:51:21 1998
From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Anyone have 1/83 Byte Mag?
In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8C9B755@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com>
Message-ID: 

I don't have that issue handy, but I do have TWO of those motherboards. (FS)

"PC-Compatible" might be a little bit of a stretch.  What does that MEAN, 
anyway?  My dictionary defines "compatible" as "capable of existing in the 
vicinity of".   

The MPX-16 was intended to connect to a terminal.  But there is an ISA 
board with it, to change that over to using a PC type keyboard.

--
Fred Cisin                      cisin@xenosoft.com
XenoSoft                        http://www.xenosoft.com
2210 Sixth St.                  (510) 644-9366
Berkeley, CA 94710-2219


On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Arlen Michaels wrote:

> 	On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, "Richard A. Cini, Jr."  wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have the 1/83 issue of Byte Magazine? In it is part 3 of an
> > article by Steve Ciarcia about the MPX-16 PC-compatible SBC. I have parts
> > 1
> > and 2, so I need the third.
> > 
> I see Barry beat me to it and found the article for you.  I actually have
> Ciarcia's original prototypes for the MPX-16 motherboard, and some paperwork
> from his project file.  
> 
> Do you suppose I should e-bay them into university tuition for my kids?  :)
> 
> If you can't find what you need in the Byte article, it's possible there's
> more info buried in the notes I got from Steve.
> 
> Arlen
> --
> Arlen Michaels     amichael@nortelnetworks.com


From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Wed Dec  9 15:56:31 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Kaypro 2X questions
References: 
Message-ID: <366EF20E.BCEEADCD@bigfoot.com>

Don Maslin wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:
>
> > Just got an IMMACULATE Kaypro 2X machine, with all the original disks.
> > It doesn't have the keyboard cable though, but I imagine it will use the
> > same type as most terminal keyboards that have modular phone type
> > connectors? The port on back is clearly marked keyboard so no big deal
> > there.
> >
> > Also on back is another modular, a little bigger but unmarked. Is this
> > possibly a modem or what else could it be?
>
> It may be, Russ.  The 2X came toward the end of Kaypro's 8-bit production
> and they were not exactly 'purebred'.  In some cases they contained both
> modem and realtime clock which they inherited from the 4/84.  In others
> those were absent as denoted by the unpopulated area on the right hand
> side of the motherboard.  Still the same basic etch, just not fully
> populated.  Generally, if the modem was present, the jack was identified.

Haven't had a chance to open it but the "other" jack appears to be a modem by
the size of the jack being an RJ11 and other specs I've found at various
places on the net. It boots quick though, especially for a 64K CP/M machine
(once I figured out that I needed to lock the floppy drive). The modem isn't
marked but as I said it seems to be. The unit is marked as a PN 81-025 on the
back and is metallic blue with a light gray cover which is also the keyboard.
It only says Kaypro on the screen print on the sides, not kaypro 2 like I've
seen on other photos.

> > Anyone have any manuals for the actual machine they want to sell, trade
> > or copy?
>
> They really did not exist.  Kaypro distributed a rather generic User
> Guide that dated back to the early machines, and application specific
> volumes for the bundled software and operating system.
>
> What are you looking for, I may be able to help.

Just things to add to this already nice machine. Books, manuals, other
software, etc. I have all the original disks to include CP/M 2.2F and S-BASIC
and C-BASIC plus some copied software. It will be the first of the year before
I can really play with it and get used to it. Other than my Commie C128D it's
been 8 or 10 yrs since I've been "into" CP/M when I had my Epson PX-8.




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:14:08 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <199812090142.AA08749@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 8, 98 08:42:28 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:11:09 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: FYI  HP-HIL Re: OT HP vectra networking
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981208223635.3a776e4e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 8, 98 10:36:35 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:22:19 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Free Software (Was Re: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking))
In-Reply-To: <366DE8F7.91D8CA3F@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Dec 8, 98 10:05:27 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:53:21 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: <199812091732.RAA10046@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 06:32:04 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:51:45 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 9, 98 01:08:44 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:21:24 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To:  from "cswiger" at Dec 8, 98 09:48:59 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 13:36:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 11:41:06 am
Message-ID: 

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From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Wed Dec  9 16:12:46 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Free Software
In-Reply-To: <199812092208.RAA00215@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Or, of course, released some of his software under a different license. 
> AFAIK, nobody, not even RMS, has to release anything under the GPL if 
> they don't want to.

*sigh*
It's politics again, as the whole OSS thing. There is the concept that
releasing source code with the program is good, and then there is
everything else, like stuff about Linux being renamed to GNU/Linux, etc.
They're just being pedantic, and whoever wins gets the throne though
there is no real issue to fight over (and no real throne)
> -tony
> 

----------------------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor



From dogas at leading.net  Wed Dec  9 16:43:43 1998
From: dogas at leading.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <01be23c5$5fe7aa60$e9c962cf@devlaptop>

;)  How about a basic/four model 1300...

Mike: dogas@leading.net




From daveygf at aol.com  Wed Dec  9 17:03:55 1998
From: daveygf at aol.com (David Freibrun)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: test..
Message-ID: <19981209230355.30037.qmail@findmail.com>

Test of http://www.egroups.com


From william at ans.net  Wed Dec  9 17:05:23 1998
From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Need an IBM 9309-2 Rack Enclosure
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209095541.00a90ce0@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

> Some of you know I rescued an IBM 9370 system from my now-ex employer in
> mid-'97. 

RCS/RI has so many, WERE GIVING THEM AWAY!

If you treat us kindly, you might find an RS/6000 930 (ex NSFnet router)
in it.

I also have complete docs for the 9309s, in all their flavors.

William Donzelli
william@ans.net



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 16:15:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "Jeffrey l Kaneko" at Dec 9, 98 02:01:08 pm
Message-ID: 

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From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:10:05 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209144458.3ee7cf8a@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209191005.4f2fd4fe@intellistar.net>

At 11:58 AM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>No, I have one also.
>						 - don

   What do you have for your's?  Do you have any of the manuals? I have
quite a few but I'd like to get copies of any that I don't have, especially
the service manuals for the 8" disk drives.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:14:19 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <19981209.140221.277.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209191419.0b1f0e82@intellistar.net>

Jeff,

   Sorry that should have said 3B2, not 3B1.  I also have a 3B1, actually
it's a 7300 that was field upgraded to a 3B1. I think there are several
people that have 3B1s on the list.

  Joe


At 01:57 PM 12/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I also own a 3b1.  
>What was special about the model 310?
>
>Jeff
>
>On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 14:44:58 Joe  writes:
>>
>>>> Doug Yowza  wrote:
>>>> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single 
>>instance
>>>> > represented on this list. 
>>>> 
>>
>>   Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or 
>>two?
>>AFIK I have the only Tek 4051.
>>
>>  Joe
>>
>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:18:07 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209191807.0b1f4dbe@intellistar.net>

No but I passed one up a couple of months ago. I consider them too
specailized to be considered a computer, even if it does have a CPU in it.
I have five Tektronix DAS 9100s but I don't consider them computers either.
Hell these days everything more complicated than a toaster contains a CPU!

  Joe

At 02:01 PM 12/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Okay, tough guy!
>Anybody else here have a Fluke 1720a?
>It is a TMS-9900 based instrument controller 
>that Fluke marketed until the early 90's.
>
>Jeff
>
>On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:08:44 -0500 Christian Fandt 
>writes:
>>Doug Yowza  wrote:
>>> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single 
>>instance
>>> represented on this list. 
>>
>>Anybody have an HP250-30, IBM 9370, Tektronix 31 (kinda like the 
>>9825)?
>>
>>Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list 
>>mentioning
>>they have a DG Nova 1200.
>>
>>These are four are in my collection.
>>
>>Regards,  Chris
>>-- --
>>Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
>>Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
>>Member of Antique Wireless Association
>>        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:19:53 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209191953.0b1f6b98@intellistar.net>

At 02:27 PM 12/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> >    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?
>                                       ^^^
>
>Whazzat?

  That's a brain-fart. It should have said 3B2.
>
>Anyway, I got ~~20 unixpc/7300/3b1 in various stages of operation -->
>decomposition. 

  Sounds like my 6300s.

  Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:30:56 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <01be23c5$5fe7aa60$e9c962cf@devlaptop>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209193056.5107bb68@intellistar.net>


  I forgot.  I have two Tandy 6000 HDs.  Does anyone else still have one of
these? I think David W. does but he's missing the keyboard.

  Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 19:33:28 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209193328.51074e40@intellistar.net>

No but I have an Intel developement system.  I DID have seven (yes, seven!)
HP 64000 Logic Developement Systems but I scrapped them.

  Joe


At 10:15 PM 12/9/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> 
>> Okay, tough guy!
>
>OK, anyone else here got a Tektronix 8000 microprocessor development system
>(either the 11/03 floppy-based one or the 11/23 hard-disk based one)?
>
>What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't 
>have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual. 
>
>-tony
>
>



From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Dec  9 17:36:05 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: DataGeneral "Eagle" ?
Message-ID: <199812092336.QAA15764@calico.litterbox.com>

Hi.  It occurred to me to wonder if anyone has the 32bit Data General machine
that was backward compatible with the Nova, and subject of the book "Soul of 
the New Machine".  The project codename was Eagle, but I don't recall what
the machine was called when it was actually produced.

Heh.  Serious collectable would be Gallifrey Eagle or one of the other 3
prototype machines. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From spc at armigeron.com  Thu Dec 10 17:32:10 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209193056.5107bb68@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 07:30:56 pm
Message-ID: <199812102332.SAA12426@armigeron.com>

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From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Wed Dec  9 17:51:19 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Tony Duell" at Dec 9, 98 10:15:31 pm
Message-ID: <199812092351.PAA13026@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From fauradon at pclink.com  Wed Dec  9 18:13:06 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <002501be23d1$e6bf8240$0a010bce@francois>

How about the exelvision EXL100? is that a single instance on the list?
I also have the IR joysticks.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update 
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/




From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 18:12:52 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Kaypro Robbie
In-Reply-To: <366EEB18.78C909E3@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:

> A friend of mine has a Kaypro Robbie, and we got to talking about what it
> might be worth.  Anyone on the list have any idea?  A number of us have
> fairly sizeable collections, and from an insurance standpoint, it would be a
> good idea to have an idea of what these machines are worth!

Well, the Robie was one of the last and one of the smaller production run 
items that Kaypro made.  Because of the Drivetec drives and their 
tendency to 'eat' the rather high priced 2.8mb floppies that they needed, 
they were also one of the least liked.

Price?  I have no idea.
						 - don
 



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Dec  9 18:17:35 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <199812100017.AA22284@world.std.com>

< Okay, I have something that may interest you.  One of Northstar's
< first products, was a floppy disk drive, that could be used with
< Altairs (among others).  I have a pair of these 5.25" drives in an
< aluminum/wooden cabinet.

Yes, the board and the drive were released about the same time as their
z80 cpu.  it was late '76.

The NS* horizon box with the wood cover and all (about 20" wide) was later 
by nearly a year in mid'77 for shipments as kits.

< upgraded, etc.  I don't remember the exact dates, but it seems that
< it was built in 1977.

About right.

< 
< I have reason to believe the drives are original; one still has the
< N* nameplate attached thereto.  The wooden top cover is in decent 
< shape, has a small bit of wood chipped from a front corner.

Very common.  Mine is near mint.

< If this is interesting, I can get more particulars-- especially
< corrolation of the dates with the actual Altair/Imsai/N* product
< release timelines.



From marvin at rain.org  Wed Dec  9 18:16:00 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209193056.5107bb68@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <366F12C0.26F60786@rain.org>

Joe wrote:
> 
>   I forgot.  I have two Tandy 6000 HDs.  Does anyone else still have one of these? I think David W. does but he's missing the keyboard.

I have one HD and one 6000 (floppy disk only.)


From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 18:20:58 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Kaypro 2X questions
In-Reply-To: <366EF20E.BCEEADCD@bigfoot.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote:

> Don Maslin wrote:

snip
 
> > It may be, Russ.  The 2X came toward the end of Kaypro's 8-bit production
> > and they were not exactly 'purebred'.  In some cases they contained both
> > modem and realtime clock which they inherited from the 4/84.  In others
> > those were absent as denoted by the unpopulated area on the right hand
> > side of the motherboard.  Still the same basic etch, just not fully
> > populated.  Generally, if the modem was present, the jack was identified.

What I should also have said is that if the modem is not present, the 
jack is not connected to anything!
 
> Haven't had a chance to open it but the "other" jack appears to be a modem by
> the size of the jack being an RJ11 and other specs I've found at various
> places on the net. It boots quick though, especially for a 64K CP/M machine
> (once I figured out that I needed to lock the floppy drive). The modem isn't
> marked but as I said it seems to be. The unit is marked as a PN 81-025 on the
> back and is metallic blue with a light gray cover which is also the keyboard.
> It only says Kaypro on the screen print on the sides, not kaypro 2 like I've
> seen on other photos.
> 
> > > Anyone have any manuals for the actual machine they want to sell, trade
> > > or copy?
> >
> > They really did not exist.  Kaypro distributed a rather generic User
> > Guide that dated back to the early machines, and application specific
> > volumes for the bundled software and operating system.
> >
> > What are you looking for, I may be able to help.
> 
> Just things to add to this already nice machine. Books, manuals, other
> software, etc. I have all the original disks to include CP/M 2.2F and S-BASIC
> and C-BASIC plus some copied software. It will be the first of the year before
> I can really play with it and get used to it. Other than my Commie C128D it's
> been 8 or 10 yrs since I've been "into" CP/M when I had my Epson PX-8.

Hmmm!  I'd have expected CP/M-2.2G and MBASIC, WORDSTAR 3.30, 
CALC/DATA/REPORTSTAR, etc.
						 - don 



From dogas at leading.net  Wed Dec  9 18:16:37 1998
From: dogas at leading.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <01be23d2$5a0a95a0$e9c962cf@devlaptop>

Joe, was this a response for the basic/four ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe 
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: single instance machines


>At 11:58 AM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>No, I have one also.
>> - don
>
>   What do you have for your's?  Do you have any of the manuals? I have
>quite a few but I'd like to get copies of any that I don't have, especially
>the service manuals for the 8" disk drives.
>
>   Joe
>
>



From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Dec  9 18:26:59 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net> (message from
	Joe on Wed, 09 Dec 1998 11:41:06)
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <19981210002659.20434.qmail@brouhaha.com>

> computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
> pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
> the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.  Send beer money plus
> postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.

Sounds like a monitor cable for one of the later VAXstations.  If no one
else has spoken for it, I might be able to use it, since I just got a
VAXstation 4000 Model 60 last week.

Cheers,
Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Wed Dec  9 18:30:35 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209144458.3ee7cf8a@intellistar.net> (message from
	Joe on Wed, 09 Dec 1998 14:44:58)
References: <199810060532.WAA28294@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <3.0.1.16.19981209144458.3ee7cf8a@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <19981210003035.20447.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Joe wrote:
>    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?

I think you must mean 3B2 model 310.

I've got one in my garage.

Eric



From zmerch at 30below.com  Wed Dec  9 18:39:16 1998
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:03 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <366F12C0.26F60786@rain.org>
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209193056.5107bb68@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981209193916.0090a5e0@mail.30below.com>

Once upon a midnight dreary, Marvin had spoken clearly:
>Joe wrote:
>> 
>>   I forgot.  I have two Tandy 6000 HDs.  Does anyone else still have one
of these? I think David W. does but he's missing the keyboard.
>
>I have one HD and one 6000 (floppy disk only.)

Wank a zero... I have a Tandy 600 (laptop)... but I think there's a few
others have one of those here...

My only other (ahem) claim to fame is I have a Commodore B-128, which are
kinda hard to come by (well, here in the great white north, anyway...
Like, take off, eh hoser!!! ;-)

Best I can do,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger


From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 18:33:33 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209191005.4f2fd4fe@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

> At 11:58 AM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >No, I have one also.
> >						 - don
> 
>    What do you have for your's?  Do you have any of the manuals? I have
> quite a few but I'd like to get copies of any that I don't have, especially
> the service manuals for the 8" disk drives.
> 
As I recall, Joe, they are regular Shugart SA-801's.  I have both the 
Maintenance and OEM manuals for them.
						 - don



From bill at chipware.com  Wed Dec  9 18:48:37 1998
From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <000401be23d6$d2663640$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com>

Doug Yowza  wrote:
> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> represented on this list. 

Well... At the risk of sounding like a broken record...
I have several varieties of Ohio Scientific C2s and C3s,
some C1s and Superboards.  I don't have proper software
for most of them (the C2s and C3s, that is, I have plenty
of C1/Superboard software on cassette... I'll have to try
the transfer to CD trick with it sometime).  I ask, I get
no response, maybe I have the only remaining examples of
some of these C2/C3 configurations.  I also wonder if I
have the largest Ohio Scientific collection in existence.

Bill


From dburrows at netpath.net  Wed Dec  9 18:36:24 1998
From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Fw: Giving away Amiga500
Message-ID: <04d001be23d6$36f741e0$bf281bce@p166>

In case anyone is interested - from newsgroup.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin 
Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.workstation
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:32 AM
Subject: Giving away Amiga500


>That's right!
>I have one Amiga 500 with Monitor and TV adapter.
>
>It belonged to a relative and is in top condition.
>
>Reason: I am moving and it was one of those projects that I never got
>around to.
>
>You have until Friday night to respond, otherwise it goes in the trash.
>
>oh, and you have to work out how to pick it up.
>Cheers,
>Justin.



From simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 18:35:10 1998
From: simon at nenevr.demon.co.uk (Simon Coombs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> > > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> > > represented on this list. 
> 
> Any other PERQ-fanatics here? Any model of PERQ, I am not expecting 3a or 
> T4 owners to appear :-)
> 
> What about the HH Tiger, Nascom, Gemini Galaxy, Philips P850, etc?

I know of someone with a Nascom-II, although I don't own one personally. 
What I *do* have, though, is a Transdata Cx500. 2xDSDD 8", 64mb ram, Z80 
CPU with a second Z80 on the floppy controller board doing who knows 
what. I have yet to meet anyone else who has even *heard* of a Transdata 
computer. [1]

I've also got all the bits, barring the case, of a HM Systems Minstrel-2, 
complete with TurboDos manuals - S100-bus 80186 slave CPU cards, and all.

Was the Philips P850 the machine with 8" hard sectored disks? If so, I've 
got some spare for any interested parties in the UK. [2]

Regards,

Simon.

[1] I believe they might have made terminals and paper-tape stuff too...
[2] Apologies to anyone else; although if what's written here is true,
    you're all ankle-deep in classic machines anyway!

--
Simon Coombs                                simon@nenevr.demon.co.uk
Don't stand on ceremony; just bow low.      CP/M - The once and future O/S!



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 19:02:35 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209193328.51074e40@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 07:33:28 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 19:03:15 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812092351.PAA13026@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 9, 98 03:51:19 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Wed Dec  9 19:08:48 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Simon Coombs" at Dec 10, 98 00:35:10 am
Message-ID: 

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From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com  Wed Dec  9 19:19:03 1998
From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

I have one-and-a-third single instance machines...

My Cadnetix electronic circuit design workstation seems to be the only one
known to still exist.

And the 1/3 part is in the form of the "electronic" computer I'm building
from the January 1960 issue of Electronics Illustrated...(flip-flops,
light-bulbs, and a rotary phone dial - woo-hoo!) I'm about 1/3
completed...

Aaron C. Finney		Systems Administrator		WFI Incorporated
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant."



From pechter at monmouth.com  Wed Dec  9 19:22:45 1998
From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: DataGeneral "Eagle" ?
In-Reply-To: <199812092336.QAA15764@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Dec 9, 98 04:36:05 pm"
Message-ID: <199812100122.UAA03904@monmouth.com>

> Hi.  It occurred to me to wonder if anyone has the 32bit Data General machine
> that was backward compatible with the Nova, and subject of the book "Soul of 
> the New Machine".  The project codename was Eagle, but I don't recall what
> the machine was called when it was actually produced.
> 
> Heh.  Serious collectable would be Gallifrey Eagle or one of the other 3
> prototype machines. :)
> -- 
> Jim Strickland
> jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com


Data General MV8000 and later the rest of the MV series... MV10000 etc.
Don't have one.  Interesting machines and a good book.

Bill
(just me and PDP and Vaxen here...)


From jim at calico.litterbox.com  Wed Dec  9 19:27:25 1998
From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: DataGeneral "Eagle" ?
In-Reply-To: <199812100122.UAA03904@monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Dec 09, 1998 08:22:45 PM
Message-ID: <199812100127.SAA16308@calico.litterbox.com>

> Data General MV8000 and later the rest of the MV series... MV10000 etc.
> Don't have one.  Interesting machines and a good book.
> 
> Bill
> (just me and PDP and Vaxen here...)
> 

Just remembered it was Eclipse compatible, not nova compatible.  They were 
using a micronova as a console, if memory serves.  Mind, I've never SEEN
one of these animals, just read the book. :)
-- 
Jim Strickland
jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat!  Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com  Wed Dec  9 19:34:23 1998
From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: RT-11 v2.0 manual set question
Message-ID: 

Hi,

Thanks to the generous loan of three big binders full of RT-11 v2 manuals, 
I now have 20 megs of tiff images that might be of interest to others as
well. Three questions:

1) Is anyone aware of the current copyright status of these documents? Can
I give copies of such old manuals (1976) without worrying about possible
legal implications?

2) Depending on a favorable reply to question #1, would it benefit anyone
to have these available on-line? I currently have them broken
into chapters, anywhere from 600k to 4megs each (8.5"x11"@300dpi, BW)

3) If we got this far and they're going to be available over the internet,
does anyone have any requests to make specific formats available? I could
also make PDF and PostScript versions, or even make a wild attempt at
OCRing them (thought that would destroy tables/graphics)...



Aaron C. Finney		Systems Administrator		WFI Incorporated
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"UNIX is an exponential algorithm with a seductively small constant."



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 19:50:05 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Fw: Giving away Amiga500
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981210125003.009a4c70@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 19:36 9/12/98 -0500, Daniel T. Burrows  wrote:
>In case anyone is interested - from newsgroup.
>Dan
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Justin 
>Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.workstation
>Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:32 AM
>Subject: Giving away Amiga500
>
>
>>That's right!
>>I have one Amiga 500 with Monitor and TV adapter.
>>
>>It belonged to a relative and is in top condition.
>>
>>Reason: I am moving and it was one of those projects that I never got
>>around to.
>>
>>You have until Friday night to respond, otherwise it goes in the trash.
>>
>>oh, and you have to work out how to pick it up.
>>Cheers,
>>Justin.

Just to help anyone who's interested, it seems this A500 is in Adelaide
(pasteur.dialix.com.au is Dialix's Adelaide server).

Regards,

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 19:57:12 1998
From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
Message-ID: <003801be23e0$747195c0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe 
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

Date: Thursday, 10 December 1998 3:10
Subject: Up for grabs: Unusual video cable


>Still finding more junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures.  Found this video cable
>but I have no idea what it's for. It looks like a 13W3 cable for a Sun
>computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
>pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
>the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.

Sounds a bit like a Digital Vaxstation monitor cable.  Does it have a part
no on it and/or a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo?


>Send beer money plus
>postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.


I think the postage to Oz might be prohibitive, or I would.

Cheers

Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie  South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
      61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
      61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
      61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Dec  9 20:01:39 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: RT-11 v2.0 manual set question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:

> 3) If we got this far and they're going to be available over the internet,
> does anyone have any requests to make specific formats available? I could
> also make PDF and PostScript versions, or even make a wild attempt at
> OCRing them (thought that would destroy tables/graphics)...

Eric Smith's method of adding the OCR'd text as "invisible text" to PDF
documents sounds good.  I'm going to probably do all my scans that way on
documents that demand it due to graphics and tables.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]




From rcini at msn.com  Wed Dec  9 19:07:36 1998
From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte
Message-ID: <007201be23e0$80a50f20$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>

On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 08:36:08 -0600, John Foust  wrote:

>>The article compendiums that are offered for Byte,
>>DDJ, etc. are interesting, but so are the ads, and they aren't included.

    I think that the ads are fantastic. I was about 13 in 1980, and I
remember going to the public library to read these mags. So, when I see
these ads I sort of have Deja Vu. If you look at the Bytes from 1978 through
1983, you can see the change in focus among the hardware platforms. It's
sort of like watching a flower bloom in slow motion.

[  Rich Cini/WUGNET
[   ClubWin!/CW7
[   MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[   Collector of "classic" computers
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================   reply   separator  =================>






From rcini at msn.com  Wed Dec  9 19:10:19 1998
From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte and using BibTex
Message-ID: <007301be23e0$83a92760$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>

Does anyone have any experience using BiBTex on the PeeCee? I downloaded the
Byte indices from 1975 to 1990, but I was not able to D/L any of the
non-Unix tools from the site I was on.

Any recommendations as to tools are welcome. Thanks.

[  Rich Cini/WUGNET
[   ClubWin!/CW7
[   MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[   Collector of "classic" computers
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================   reply   separator  =================>






From rcini at msn.com  Wed Dec  9 19:15:55 1998
From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
Message-ID: <007401be23e0$867036a0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>

Well, another project to further divide my free time...

    I saw a project in one of my old Bytes for a hand-pulled paper tape
reader. Very simple - 9 photodiodes, a light, a latch, a pulse-stretcher,
and some guide posts.

    Well, here's the parts I have lying around: a BasicStamp-II, two R/C
servos modified for constant running, a few switches, and photodiodes.

    If I get this thing working over the Christmas holiday, I'll post a
construction article.

    Any recommendations for rubber pinch rollers? I'm thinking rubber
stoppers from a plumbing supply shop. These are pre-drilled and come with a
washer, bolt, and wing nut.


[  Rich Cini/WUGNET
[   ClubWin!/CW7
[   MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
[   Collector of "classic" computers
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
<================   reply   separator  =================>






From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Dec  9 20:16:40 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812092351.PAA13026@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at
 Dec 9, 98 03:51:19 pm
Message-ID: 

>> I don't have a PDP-11 -- that's unusual in this crowd. >;-)
>
>This must be the only list were _not_ owning a minicomputer is unusual :-)

Shouldn't that be, not owning several Minicomputers is unusual :^)

		Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Wed Dec  9 20:25:02 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "Jeffrey l
 Kaneko" at Dec 9, 98 02:01:08 pm
Message-ID: 

>What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't
>have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual.

Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days.

My oddist machine is odd enough that I don't even know what it is, other
than some sort of UNIX box.  Of course it's went directly to storage thanks
to it's size and I've not found time to play with it.

I did pass on a 'Sony NEWS' machine a couple weeks ago.  Almost picked it
up because I've NEVER seen one.

		Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From zmerch at 30below.com  Wed Dec  9 20:34:57 1998
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Usual?!?!?!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
 <199812092351.PAA13026@oa.ptloma.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981209213457.00944c70@mail.30below.com>

Once upon a midnight dreary, Zane H. Healy had spoken clearly:

>>> I don't have a PDP-11 -- that's unusual in this crowd. >;-)
>>
>>This must be the only list were _not_ owning a minicomputer is unusual :-)
>
>Shouldn't that be, not owning several Minicomputers is unusual :^)

Damn!!!

Just when I finally found a group I thought I was somewhat *normal* in...
I find I'm unusual in this one, too! ;-)

Will I *ever* fit in?????

"Merch"


From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 20:31:36 1998
From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
Message-ID: <00f901be23e5$424120c0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au>


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. 
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

Date: Thursday, 10 December 1998 13:38
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader


>Well, another project to further divide my free time...
>
>    I saw a project in one of my old Bytes for a hand-pulled paper tape
>reader. Very simple - 9 photodiodes, a light, a latch, a pulse-stretcher,
>and some guide posts.

Hmmm, any chance you could post/email the circuit and article?  Might be
able to help.

>    Well, here's the parts I have lying around: a BasicStamp-II, two R/C
>servos modified for constant running, a few switches, and photodiodes.
>
>    If I get this thing working over the Christmas holiday, I'll post a
>construction article.
>
>    Any recommendations for rubber pinch rollers? I'm thinking rubber
>stoppers from a plumbing supply shop. These are pre-drilled and come with a
>washer, bolt, and wing nut.


How about some VHS VCR Pinch Rollers.  They'd be around the right size. In
fact, might not some of the tape path components be used to make it a
motorised version?  A repairer probably has a swag of used ones that have
gone a bit concave or slick to be any good in a VCR, but probably just fine
for what you want.
You might also ask around the ham radio community, lots of Siemens
teleprinters have tape facilities.  Baudot of course, but some of the
transport might be useful.  You might even get lucky and find something that
handles ascii tape.  Some later machines, like the SAGEM certainly had it as
an option.  RTTY has pretty much gone computer these days, so you might find
there are lots laying about gathering dust.

Cheers

Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie  South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
      61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
      61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
      61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)



From Watzman at ibm.net  Wed Dec  9 19:02:15 1998
From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.
Message-ID: <01BE23BC.0BEDA4E0@slip-32-100-187-145.oh.us.ibm.net>

The Northstar disk system was quite an item in its day, when it came out it was the lowest price floppy disk system on the market, by about half (it was under $500, and most other SINGLE drive systems were $1,000).  That's because it was the FIRST commercially available system to use a 5.25" drive rather than an 8" drive.  The drive was the Shugart SA-400, I believe (could have the number wrong), a full-size 5.25" drive.  As used by Northstar, it was a 35 track drive with ten sectors per track (hard sectored), 256 bytes per sector, I think, total capacity as formatted was 80k or so (with some reserved area) (single sided, single density, of course).

The controller was dumb, mostly just gates controlled by software.  To step the drive, the software wrote alternating, and properly timed, "1's" and "0's" to a port or an address (my recollection is that the controller was memory mapped).  All of the work was done at a very low level in the operating system, which was also dumb, it only supported contiguous files and you had to "compact" the disk whenever holes were created by deleting a file.

Many of us made our first move from paper or (audio) magnetic tape to disk with this system, and crude as the system was, it was a HUGE advance at the time.

And a small New York city software firm, Lifeboat associates, became quite prominent in part because they managed to put CP/M on the Northstar system, a major feat at the time as CP/M had been pretty much exclusively set up for standard 8" SSSD drives (in fact, in versions 1.3 and to a lesser extent 1.4, it was hard coded this way in the BDOS, but in version 2.2 it became table driven so that other formats were more easily accommodated).  The two principles in Lifeboat I knew quite well, Tony Gold, who was mostly a promoter, sales type and businessman, and I can't remember the name of the primary programmer who did most of the actual software development work, but at the time I knew him quite well and worked closely with him on porting CP/M to the Heathkit products.  I will remember his name shortly after I "send" this message.

I still have source code (disassembled and commented) for the Northstar Disk operating system.

Barry Watzman


----------
From:  Jeffrey l Kaneko [SMTP:jeff.kaneko@juno.com]
Sent:  Wednesday, December 09, 1998 9:53 AM
To:  Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject:  Re: FSOT: Commodore GPIB cable.

Joe:

Okay, I have something that may interest you.  One of Northstar's
first products, was a floppy disk drive, that could be used with
Altairs (among others).  I have a pair of these 5.25" drives in an
aluminum/wooden cabinet.

There are inscriptions inside giving dates that it was built up, 
upgraded, etc.  I don't remember the exact dates, but it seems that
it was built in 1977.

I have reason to believe the drives are original; one still has the
N* nameplate attached thereto.  The wooden top cover is in decent 
shape, has a small bit of wood chipped from a front corner.

If this is interesting, I can get more particulars-- especially
corrolation of the dates with the actual Altair/Imsai/N* product
release timelines.

Jeff

On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 08:45:24 Joe  writes:
>Jeff,
>
>  That one is sold but I have another one that's still new in the bag. 
> I'm
>looking for anything for my Altair, anything for my Tektronix 4051 or 
>HP
>calculator or computer stuff. Machines, parts, manuals or whatever.
>
>  Joe
>
>At 08:31 PM 12/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Joe:
>>
>>I could sure use this.  WHat sort of trades are you looking for?
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 14:17:39 Joe  writes:
>>>Commodore marked cable with a card edge connector on one end and a
>>>male/female GPIB connectors on the other. Contact me if interested.
>>>
>>>  Joe
>>>
>>>
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at 
>http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cfandt at netsync.net  Wed Dec  9 20:50:47 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209210741.00aaf440@206.231.8.2>

At 19:51 12/09/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
>> 
>> Doug Yowza  wrote:
>> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
>> > represented on this list. 
>
>Any other PERQ-fanatics here? Any model of PERQ, I am not expecting 3a or 
>T4 owners to appear :-)

I have a feeling you would be the only person within our list and perhaps
most other computer collectors who has a PERQ. I never seen one, know very
little about them, but nevertheless, over the years (10+ years ago) I had
occasionally heard of them.

>
>What about the HH Tiger, Nascom, Gemini Galaxy, Philips P850, etc?
>
>> 
>> Anybody have an HP250-30, IBM 9370, Tektronix 31 (kinda like the 9825)?
>
>You _have_ a Tek 31? Wow! I've heard of it (and the similar 21), but 
>never seen one.

Yep. I got it out of a huge batch of equipment auctioned from the
IBM-Endicott plant when it was severely "downsized" around 1984. It
apparently controlled some sort of tester for those square metal modules
one sees on IBM pc boards (what are they called again William D.?) 

Never heard of a TEK 31 myself  'till then. When I saw it I figured I had
better grab it since I felt it was a rather rare thing even back then. I
don't recall finding anything on it in my collection of older TEK catalogs.

The machine works. Has a tape cartridge with a program that I printed out.
Language was fairly easy to figure out (sorta like HPL found on the HP
9825's, etc.) Has an LED display and a thermal printer, again similar to
the 9825. Been at least a dozen years since I looked inside, but I don't
recall any LSI-type chips as main brains. I think it's all TTL. IIRC, the
chips were dated around mid-70's. I'll look again for you sometime. 

*Finally*, last year I got a TEK 31 operator's manual. Got it from somebody
advertising having it for sale in one of the antique radio groups, of all
places, on Usenet. But it's in French!! (Came out of French Canada.) Have
to recall the several years of French class I had in high school a
lo-o-o-ng time ago:)

Probably will *never* find any more tape cartidges for it so I can't write
programs and save 'em and otherwise have fun with it :(

Was the TEK 21 you mentioned above earlier than the TEK 31 or just
different in other ways?

>
>However, I do have the service manual for the 4661 plotter that goes with 
>these machines. I'm not getting rid of it - I have a 4662 plotter and 
>much of the mechanics is the same - but I can provide info from it.

Are these plotters similar in concept to the 4331 printers? Used a special
thermal paper I think. Such printer could hang off my TEK 4015-1 graphics
terminal and print directly from the screen. The 401x series had an X-Y
analog plotter output for actual plotting.

>
>Here is the pinout of the calculator I/O connector. 

Evidently in that service manual it mentions the plotter could hang off a
TEK 31, true? If so, then this is indeed the connector pinout for my TEK
31? I got a 1 meter long cable with it too. 
  --  snipped pin list for brevity --

>> 
>> Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list mentioning
>> they have a DG Nova 1200.
>
>I have an incomplete (still missing the lights-and-switches board) Nova 
>1210 here.

Hmmm, I have to check but I *think* there is something about 1210's in the
DG Nova printset I have. I know there's schemas for the 1200 and 800
machines. I'll let you know if I run across them while unpacking stuff.
Remind me early next year Tony.

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 22:51:28 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <003801be23e0$747195c0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic
 .edu.au>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209225128.4cb7fb7e@intellistar.net>

At 12:27 PM 12/10/98 +1030, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe 
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>
>Date: Thursday, 10 December 1998 3:10
>Subject: Up for grabs: Unusual video cable
>
>
>>Still finding more junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures.  Found this video cable
>>but I have no idea what it's for. It looks like a 13W3 cable for a Sun
>>computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
>>pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
>>the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.
>
>Sounds a bit like a Digital Vaxstation monitor cable.  Does it have a part
>no on it and/or a |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo?
>
  No, that would have been too easy. The name on it is "Advanced
Interconnect", there are a couple of numbers on it "6247661-P001" and
"PAM3W3P 9032".

>
>>Send beer money plus
>>postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.
>
>
>I think the postage to Oz might be prohibitive, or I would.

   I'd settle for some of that good Aussie beer :-) :-) :-) :-)

   Joe
>
>Cheers
>
>Geoff Roberts
>Computer Systems Manager
>Saint Marks College
>Port Pirie  South Australia.
>My ICQ# is 1970476
>Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
>      61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
>      61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
>      61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 22:56:34 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
In-Reply-To: <007401be23e0$867036a0$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209225634.4cb7887c@intellistar.net>

At 08:15 PM 12/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Well, another project to further divide my free time...
>
>    I saw a project in one of my old Bytes for a hand-pulled paper tape
>reader. Very simple - 9 photodiodes, a light, a latch, a pulse-stretcher,
>and some guide posts.
>
>    Well, here's the parts I have lying around: a BasicStamp-II, two R/C
>servos modified for constant running, a few switches, and photodiodes.
>
>    If I get this thing working over the Christmas holiday, I'll post a
>construction article.
>
  Sounds like a good wayto spent your vacation!

>    Any recommendations for rubber pinch rollers? I'm thinking rubber
>stoppers from a plumbing supply shop. These are pre-drilled and come with a
>washer, bolt, and wing nut.

  I don't think will work, they're tapered not straight. It will make the
tape run on the one side.  I would rubber drive wheels out of an old tape
drive or the rollers out of an old printer (or copier). Printer rollers
would be too wide and would have to be cut down. The metal shaft goes all
the way through so you could cut it shorter and then trim the rubber back
to expose the shaft.

  Joe
>
>
>[  Rich Cini/WUGNET
>[   ClubWin!/CW7
>[   MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking
>[   Collector of "classic" computers
>[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/
>[   http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/
><================   reply   separator  =================>
>
>
>
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 22:59:58 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <199812102332.SAA12426@armigeron.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209193056.5107bb68@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209225958.4cb7405e@intellistar.net>

At 06:32 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Sean wrote:
>It was thus said that the Great Joe once stated:
>> 
>>   I forgot.  I have two Tandy 6000 HDs.  Does anyone else still have one of
>> these? I think David W. does but he's missing the keyboard.
>
>  I have two of them, both with keyboards, 15M harddrives and 8" floppy
>drives.  One works, and I think the other works, but I haven't tested it
>since I got it home, dropped it and pretty much smashed the case.
>

Sean,

  You're down here in Florida too aren't you?  I'm in Orlando.  We should
get together and compare collections one day.  Phil Clayton is also here in
Florida.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 23:04:42 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <01be23d2$5a0a95a0$e9c962cf@devlaptop>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209230442.4cb7dc86@intellistar.net>

Mike,

  No. It was in response to Don saying that he also had a Tek 4051.

   Joe

At 07:16 PM 12/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Joe, was this a response for the basic/four ?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe 
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>
>Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 6:50 PM
>Subject: Re: single instance machines
>
>
>>At 11:58 AM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>>
>>>No, I have one also.
>>> - don
>>
>>   What do you have for your's?  Do you have any of the manuals? I have
>>quite a few but I'd like to get copies of any that I don't have, especially
>>the service manuals for the 8" disk drives.
>>
>>   Joe
>>
>>
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 23:05:42 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <19981210002659.20434.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net>
 <3.0.1.16.19981209114106.485f8432@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209230542.4d8757b8@intellistar.net>

Eric,

  OK  I'll add it to you box of stuff.

   Joe

At 12:26 AM 12/10/98 -0000, you wrote:
>> computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
>> pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
>> the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.  Send beer money plus
>> postage and this wonderfull treasure will be your's.
>
>Sounds like a monitor cable for one of the later VAXstations.  If no one
>else has spoken for it, I might be able to use it, since I just got a
>VAXstation 4000 Model 60 last week.
>
>Cheers,
>Eric
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Wed Dec  9 23:20:16 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Tek 31 was Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209210741.00aaf440@206.231.8.2>
References: 
 <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981209232016.4aff716c@intellistar.net>

At 09:50 PM 12/9/98 -0500, Christian wrote:

>>You _have_ a Tek 31? Wow! I've heard of it (and the similar 21), but 
>>never seen one.
>
>
>Probably will *never* find any more tape cartidges for it so I can't write
>programs and save 'em and otherwise have fun with it :(


   What do the tapes for it look like? I wonder if they're the same as the
ones fo the 4051?  My 4051 manual says that they're standard DC 300 tapes.
I got one tape with the machine. I have no idea how hard DC 300s are to
find anymore.

  Joe




From transit at primenet.com  Wed Dec  9 21:39:05 1998
From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Fw: Giving away Amiga500
In-Reply-To: <04d001be23d6$36f741e0$bf281bce@p166>
Message-ID: 

> >You have until Friday night to respond, otherwise it goes in the trash.

TRASH?!??!?!?

Aren't they're any Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift stores where you
are?



From allisonp at world.std.com  Wed Dec  9 21:58:15 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: DataGeneral "Eagle" ?
Message-ID: <199812100358.AA14306@world.std.com>


< that was backward compatible with the Nova, and subject of the book "Sou
< the New Machine".  The project codename was Eagle, but I don't recall wh
< the machine was called when it was actually produced.

Eclipse, as it was supposed to overshadow the VAX and was consistant with
earlier celestial naming (Nova).

Allison




From rws at eagle.ais.net  Wed Dec  9 22:33:52 1998
From: rws at eagle.ais.net (Richard W. Schauer)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 9, 98 06:25:02 pm"
Message-ID: <199812100433.WAA20768@eagle.ais.net>

> >What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't
> >have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual.

I haven't got one either, but someone promised me one if they ever find it
in their closet.

I seem to be pretty good at picking up orphan junk- try these:

- Point Four Data Systems Mark 3 mini (4* 2903) with CDC Lark 25/25 drive.
- Litton Monroe 7860.  Micro with hinge-up cover, full sheet printer
(shove the paper into the side of the machine and it prints it and spits
it back out), fluorescent display, and minicassette drive (not standard,
not micro, somewhere in between.) 8085 based.
- Wang OIS-60X word processing server and terminals.  Z80.
- CPT 8525 word processor.  8080.
- NCR UNIX Tower.  Don't know yet.
- All sorts of Intel and Teradyne Multibus cards (8080, 8088, 8086, 80188,
80186, 80286), and a Microlink STD-145 card (8085, STD bus).

The biggest problem with oddball junk is doing something useful with it.
Most of the above are of somewhat limited utility to me because they're
so obscure and hard to find stuff for (like the little cassettes or
cartridges for the Monroe).

Anyone else have a Diablo hardcopy terminal, the kind that looks like a
typewriter sitting on a desk, but it's actually a part of the desk, and
the desk contains a big cardcage with boards full of 7400-series logic?
I forget the model number offhand and it's a block away from here.

Richard Schauer
rws@ais.net



From wpfulmor at dimensional.com  Wed Dec  9 22:44:11 1998
From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: single instance machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209191953.0b1f6b98@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

>   That's a brain-fart. It should have said 3B2.

Oh.  I've done that.

> >Anyway, I got ~~20 unixpc/7300/3b1 in various stages of operation -->
> >decomposition. 

Forgot to add that it was my first and only computer [type].  That's the
'single instance' part.

Bill



From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Wed Dec  9 22:49:11 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: WHOOPEE!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981210154910.008ad100@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 19:26 8/12/98 +0000, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:

>All devices 'directly 
>or indirectly connected' to the phone system have to be approved. This 
>includes acoustic couplers, BTW, which have to be unable to send certain 
>tones down the line.

Doesn't that mean that, in theory at least, all FM radios would have to be
approved if you wanted to listen to a talkback radio programme where people
called in via the phone?  Surely that would mean your FM radio was
(indirectly) connected to the phone system.

I would have thought it would also mean that your computer would have to be
approved if it were "indirectly" connected to the phone system via a modem.

Or is the legislation worded carefully enough to avoid this?

Regards,

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From donm at cts.com  Wed Dec  9 23:25:38 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Up for grabs: Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209225128.4cb7fb7e@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

 At 12:27 PM 12/10/98 +1030, you wrote:
 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: Joe 
 >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
 >
 >Date: Thursday, 10 December 1998 3:10
 >Subject: Up for grabs: Unusual video cable
 >
 >
 >>Still finding more junk ^H^H^H^H er, ah, treasures.  Found this video cable
 >>but I have no idea what it's for. It looks like a 13W3 cable for a Sun
 >>computer but only has the three co-axial connectors in the plug and no
 >>pins. The plug is the same size as a DB-15. The other end of the cable has
 >>the usual three BNC connectors for a RGB monitor.
 >

 Didn't the later Macintosh computers use a 15-pin D-sub connector for 
 their monitors?  Would they have use for an RGB output?

						 - don
 


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Dec  9 23:26:38 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812100433.WAA20768@eagle.ais.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Richard W. Schauer wrote:

> I seem to be pretty good at picking up orphan junk- try these:
> 
> - Point Four Data Systems Mark 3 mini (4* 2903) with CDC Lark 25/25 drive.
> - Litton Monroe 7860.  Micro with hinge-up cover, full sheet printer
> (shove the paper into the side of the machine and it prints it and spits
> it back out), fluorescent display, and minicassette drive (not standard,
> not micro, somewhere in between.) 8085 based.
> - Wang OIS-60X word processing server and terminals.  Z80.
> - CPT 8525 word processor.  8080.

Wow, these are some pretty interesting machines.  Especially the Litton
Monroe one.  Do you have pictures you can put up on a web site somewhere?

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Wed Dec  9 22:26:17 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <19981209.222656.253.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>



On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:33:52 -0600 (CST) "Richard W. Schauer"
 writes:
>- Wang OIS-60X word processing server and terminals.  Z80.
>- CPT 8525 word processor.  8080.
>- NCR UNIX Tower.  Don't know yet.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have the 68010 version of this, *and* I have the OS install tape!
You are one of two people I know who has NCR hardware!

>- All sorts of Intel and Teradyne Multibus cards (8080, 8088, 8086, 
>80188,80186, 80286), and a Microlink STD-145 card (8085, STD bus).

My NCR uses MultiBUS.  I also have one of 3Com's 1st products:
A multibus ethernet adaptor!  Now all I need is a TCP/IP stack, 
heh heh!

>The biggest problem with oddball junk is doing something useful with 
>it.

In the NCR case, this is definitely a problem . . .

>Most of the above are of somewhat limited utility to me because 
>they're so obscure and hard to find stuff for (like the little cassettes
or
>cartridges for the Monroe).
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Wed Dec  9 23:44:28 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: BCS Computer Conservation Society in the UK
Message-ID: 


Are you folks in the UK aware of the BCS Computer Conservation Society?

http://www.galactic.co.uk/iainf/ccs.html

It seems like they have some good vintage computer activies going on
there.


Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From ddameron at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 10 00:04:28 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
Message-ID: <199812100604.WAA18252@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi Sam and all,
At 12:53 PM 12/8/98 -0800, you wrote:

>> Reading through this stuff, I'm reminded that I don't have copies of the
>> earlier PCC stuff or any of the earlier club newsletters.  Photocopy 
>> trades, anyone?
>
>I need copies of the PCC newsletter and volume 1 of the Homebrew Computer
>Club newsletter (I have Vol 2- the end).

How long did HBCC go? I have Volume 2, No 1 with Bill G's open letter and
many after. Maybe The Vol. 2 No 1 will fetch a good price to go with some
microsoft employee's Altair :-). Am sure I have some earlier ones (1975)
someplace???

Speaking of "Single instance" things, what about documentation? (Not too
much with commercial HW yet..) I have the 4 issues of the Scelbi newsletter,
looks like they were printed on an asr 33, like a lot of their stuff. Also
have now the 10 issues of "Computer Hobbyist". Anyone have any of the
"Amateur Computer Society" newsletters? 
-Dave

>
>Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Always being hassled by the man.
>
>                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
>                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
>                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]
>
>
>



From red at bears.org  Thu Dec 10 00:07:02 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Christian Fandt wrote:

> Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list mentioning
> they have a DG Nova 1200.

No, but I do have an original Nova (no designation)

-- 
ok
r.					r e d  @  b e a r s . o r g
					===========================
					[ urs longa | vita brevis ]



From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Dec 10 00:25:25 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Emulated VAX on the Mac
Message-ID: 

Whoa, I'm more than a little stunned, of course it was only a matter of
time.  It looks like someone has been working on a VAX emulator, also
sounds like he might be interested in some help.  Apparently it won't boot
VMS :^( but it will run some assembler programs.  It's Mac only, but since
it's a Codewarrior project written using SIOUX it should be portable to
UNIX.

http://users.vnet.net/cole/evax.html

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 00:22:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Dr. Dobbs..
In-Reply-To: <199812100604.WAA18252@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote:

> >I need copies of the PCC newsletter and volume 1 of the Homebrew Computer
> >Club newsletter (I have Vol 2- the end).
> 
> How long did HBCC go? I have Volume 2, No 1 with Bill G's open letter and
> many after. Maybe The Vol. 2 No 1 will fetch a good price to go with some
> microsoft employee's Altair :-). Am sure I have some earlier ones (1975)
> someplace???

I THINK I have up thru volume 4.  I'll have to check when I get back home.
I'd be interested in copies of anything you have from Vol. 1.

> Speaking of "Single instance" things, what about documentation? (Not too
> much with commercial HW yet..) I have the 4 issues of the Scelbi newsletter,
> looks like they were printed on an asr 33, like a lot of their stuff. Also
> have now the 10 issues of "Computer Hobbyist". Anyone have any of the
> "Amateur Computer Society" newsletters? 

Never heard of either "Computer Hobbyist" or "Amateur Computer Society"
but I'd love to trade copies of those for copies of what I have.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From red at bears.org  Thu Dec 10 00:35:11 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:

> DA15, surely? Same as an ethernet AUI connector shell.
> Sounds like the video cable for a VAXstation or DECstation. No, I am not 

Apollo workstations also use that connector on their colour framebuffers.


-- 
ok
r.					r e d  @  b e a r s . o r g
					===========================
					[ urs longa | vita brevis ]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 00:48:11 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: New links added to the VCF Links page
Message-ID: 


I added a buttload of links to the VCF Links page (mostly to the Computer
History Resources on the Web section).

http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vcflinks.htm

Take a gander!  Submit a link!

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/09/98]



From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Thu Dec 10 02:03:52 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


> > Well, it may just be a case of marketing in a popular journal, but
> > NONE of the above appeared on my radar screen as a curious teenager
> 
> A lot of them are UK/European designs -- the MK14 was essentially a 
> Sinclair product, the Nascom was a UK machine (that begat the Gemini 

One item in my collection is a project that used a Sinclair 16K 
expansion module for one of those very price competitive home computers.
It lives on an S-100 Vector board wire-wrapped to a TMS9918 display
processor (used in the TI99/4) - wish I could find the 9918 manual,
kinda worthless w/o it, and the software lost in tape.

> 
> Now, I don't want to start another silly Europe .vs. USA flamewar. And I 

's why I avoid discussions about 'first', 'best' and just stick to
techy facts - and fact is I turned to Europe for support for an
Atari St ( >10yrs ) in the late eighties when support was drying
up here, like ST Format mag - hey, here's the Maastricht treaty
on an St disk, heh. Buying software (Lemmings, Stealth Fighter)
was my first trans-atlantic cc transaction went very smoothly,
thank you.

> States. But I am truely suprised that the Altair should be 2 orders of 
> magnitude (at least) more valuable than any of the above.
> 

Debates on 'value' is another volitile subject - just look at the
book or radio collectors. Whether a book has a dot on the
'i' on page 39, line 13 or not can grotesquely alter the value
to someone. Most people think that's crazy!


	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com




From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Thu Dec 10 02:13:44 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Usual?!?!?!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981209213457.00944c70@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 


> >>> I don't have a PDP-11 -- that's unusual in this crowd. >;-)
> >>>

Hmmm... scanning the local trading paper reveals a PDP 11/23 for
sale - 96K memory and 40Mb disk -  $200 ?? Should I snap it up
or pass it up - of course the preferable acquisition methode is
smoozing with local schools/universities/business and catch 'em
before they hit the dumpster.

A MicroVAX in the local surplus store disappeared before I could
go back and get the details - darn it.

	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com





From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 02:55:21 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:

> And the 1/3 part is in the form of the "electronic" computer I'm building
> from the January 1960 issue of Electronics Illustrated...(flip-flops,
> light-bulbs, and a rotary phone dial - woo-hoo!) I'm about 1/3
> completed...

One of my favorite early personal computers!  I regret that the designer
didn't give it a name, though.  Specs:

Name: "Electronic Computer"
Intro: Jan 1960
Price: approx $35
Technology: discrete transistors
Memory: 6 bits
Input: rotary telephone dial
Clock speed: as fast as you can dial
Output: 12 incandescent lights
Programming language: patch cords

The author describes how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide on this
box, but it's really more of a calculator than a computer since it doesn't
have control logic or a clock.

I hope to do a web page some day that describes this machine and several
other home computers from the 1950's and 1960's.

-- Doug



From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com  Thu Dec 10 03:57:55 1998
From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: E.I. Homebuilt Computer (was Re: "Single instance" machines)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
> 
> > And the 1/3 part is in the form of the "electronic" computer I'm building
> > from the January 1960 issue of Electronics Illustrated...(flip-flops,
> > light-bulbs, and a rotary phone dial - woo-hoo!) I'm about 1/3
> > completed...
> 
> One of my favorite early personal computers!  I regret that the designer
> didn't give it a name, though.  Specs:
> 
> Name: "Electronic Computer"
> Intro: Jan 1960
> Price: approx $35
> Technology: discrete transistors
> Memory: 6 bits
> Input: rotary telephone dial
> Clock speed: as fast as you can dial
> Output: 12 incandescent lights
> Programming language: patch cords
> 
> The author describes how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide on this
> box, but it's really more of a calculator than a computer since it doesn't
> have control logic or a clock.
> 
> I hope to do a web page some day that describes this machine and several
> other home computers from the 1950's and 1960's.

Did you actually build one of these? I was thinking of taking the author's
suggestion and upgrading the memory to 10 bits...

Do you have the magazine? If you don't, and get around to putting up a web
page, I'll gladly scan the article to put on it. Actually, if anyone else
is interested, I could scan it and make it available for anyone who want's
to hack around on it. Pretty cool, actually.

Off topic, but one of the more interesting little articles in the magazine
is about the harmful effects of microwaves and describes in gory detail
how animals were adversely affected by them in experiments. What a
different time...just for fun I typed it in and stuck it here, in case
anyone wants to take a peek back at 1960:

http://www.prinsol.com/~aaron/microwaves


Aaron



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 05:14:51 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812091732.RAA10046@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 06:32:04 pm
Message-ID: <199812101015.KAA04986@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > Of course the HOWTOs are a great thing - but they are still
> > written documentation - and reading manuals is cheating.

> Does the kernel source count as 'written documentation'? Is it cheating 
> to read that? It's how I seem to work out what some of the more obscure 
> functions are for...

Trapped me :) But hey, source isn't ment to be read ...
because you don't have to - thers always a disassembler :)

Gruss
H.
(I still remember the time when I was disassembling
almost any new programm I got for my Apple ][ :)

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From neil at goodnet.com  Thu Dec 10 04:38:56 1998
From: neil at goodnet.com (Neil B. Sheldon Sr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Usual?!?!?!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981209213457.00944c70@mail.30below.com>
References: 
 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981210033856.0072cf64@207.98.129.100>

Just goes to show you, How unique you really are.

At 09:34 PM 12/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Once upon a midnight dreary, Zane H. Healy had spoken clearly:
>
>>>> I don't have a PDP-11 -- that's unusual in this crowd. >;-)
>>>
>>>This must be the only list were _not_ owning a minicomputer is unusual :-)
>>
>>Shouldn't that be, not owning several Minicomputers is unusual :^)
>
>Damn!!!
>
>Just when I finally found a group I thought I was somewhat *normal* in...
>I find I'm unusual in this one, too! ;-)
>
>Will I *ever* fit in?????
>
>"Merch"
>
>



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 05:56:30 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: 
References:  from "cswiger" at Dec 8, 98 09:48:59 pm
Message-ID: <199812101057.KAA12815@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > > Sure. But there were other build-it-yourself machines that have not 
> > > attracted the prices of the Altair. Things like the 'Hewart Mini 6800'. 
> > > or the 'PE CHAMP'. Or the various Elektor computers. Or the Science of 
> > > Cambridge MK14 (although that one is somewhat expensive now). Or the 
> > > Nascom. All came as kits. Most of them are a few 10s of dollars 

> > Well, it may just be a case of marketing in a popular journal, but
> > NONE of the above appeared on my radar screen as a curious teenager
> > in nowhere West Virginia, USA at that time. 

> A lot of them are UK/European designs -- the MK14 was essentially a 
> Sinclair product, the Nascom was a UK machine (that begat the Gemini 
> Galaxy, which you won't have heard of), PE = Practical Electronics, a UK 
> magazine, and the Champ was a 4040-based machine + EPROM programmer that 
> they published and Elektor is a Dutch magazine thats sold across Europe.


> Now, I don't want to start another silly Europe .vs. USA flamewar. And I 
> am not suprised that a lot of those machines didn't make it to the 
> States. But I am truely suprised that the Altair should be 2 orders of 
> magnitude (at least) more valuable than any of the above.

Value is still depending - Its the same with the PET hype
in the US - The people like to have what they dreamed of
(or what they once had) and Pascal Microengines or Nascoms
(I'm still looking for a Nascom I system ...) have just
been special to the time - Like cars - take a Glas 2500 -
a german car from the 60s - comaparable to any italian
sports car but unknown to most common peoples - if you
know the later BMW csi models, you might imagine a Glas,
since BMW bought Glas and took their modern technology
to rebuild the company (at this time BMW had only pre
war designs ...). Glas went bankrupt becuse they couldn't
get new money into the company but instead the banks closed
the credit line (One truly unconnected fact was that the
major lending bank was also the 'house bank' of BMW and
controlled by the owner family of BMW). The 50s and 60s
have been a quite turbulent time in car busines over here :)

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 05:56:30 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:04 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To: <199812091911.LAA13152@oa.ptloma.edu>
References: <199812091837.SAA14958@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 9, 98 07:37:14 pm
Message-ID: <199812101057.KAA12812@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> ::And for the price, it took more than a year to get the
> ::C64 down to 600 Mark (the price of an Atari).

> In the States, it took less than a year. The 64 was introduced at Winter CES
> 1982, according to my data, and during 1983 (probably no more than six months
> later) dropped to US$199 MSRP -- street sales were even lower.

Maybe Germans are just more willingly victims of blood sucking ...
At the start a C64 with floppy and CRT wasa about 2200 Mark,
while an Apple ][+ compatible computer with dual drives cost
only 1600 Mark ... But the people bought the C64 ... The slice
sales practice of commodore was just better ...

Slice sales means 'You just needs a C64 at 1100 Mark and
Tape at 100 Mark and use your TV set - so it's only 1200
Mark, compared to 1600 for a dual floppy Apple clone' and
the people did belive ... I'm still mad about this. I had
to go thru this with a collegue of mine - a veritable /370
programmer and Hardwar technican, but instead of buying
a clone, he did go for the C64 ... Only the computer and
the Tape ... haha ... it took only 2 month until he bought
a floppy ... and only some more weeks for the CRT ... and
no software available at this time, hile I had zillions
(ok, lets say some 300) of disks.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 05:56:30 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Usual?!?!?!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981209213457.00944c70@mail.30below.com>
References: 
Message-ID: <199812101057.KAA12821@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >>> I don't have a PDP-11 -- that's unusual in this crowd. >;-)
> >>This must be the only list were _not_ owning a minicomputer is unusual :-)
> >Shouldn't that be, not owning several Minicomputers is unusual :^)

> Damn!!!

> Just when I finally found a group I thought I was somewhat *normal* in...
> I find I'm unusual in this one, too! ;-)

Ups - meto. Or counts a small /370 compatible box
(size of a fridge) as mini ?

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 05:56:30 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <199812101057.KAA12818@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> What I *do* have, though, is a Transdata Cx500. 2xDSDD 8", 64mb ram, Z80 
> CPU with a second Z80 on the floppy controller board doing who knows 
> what. I have yet to meet anyone else who has even *heard* of a Transdata 
> computer. [1]

> [1] I believe they might have made terminals and paper-tape stuff too...

Transdata is a trademark of Siemens and the family name for
Communication/WAN Hardware (back from the 60s thru early 90s)
for mainframe sstems. There have also been some 'Intelligent
Terminals', like the 9753 that have been in fact 8080 based
CP/M systems.

But I guess the name is just coincidence.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From bobstek at ix.netcom.com  Thu Dec 10 05:11:10 1998
From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: NorthStar drives in cabinet
Message-ID: <000001be242d$ca89a860$8c6ffea9@mycroft>

Jeff -

If no one else is interested, I am.  I have several of the N* drives with
their blue metal covers but not one with a wood cabinet.  I have some S-100
boards, CP/M books, or a T/S 1000 if you are interested.

Bob Stek
bobstek@ix.netcom.com
Saver of Lost SOLs



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 07:00:42 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <199812101201.MAA24848@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't
> >have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual.

> Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days.

VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are
still common. Every other week one shows up on flea
markets around munich.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 06:19:38 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Free Software (Was Re: (Linux != UNIX) (Was Re: OT HP Networking))
References: 
Message-ID: <366FBC59.E72023C7@cnct.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> >
> > Max Eskin wrote:
> > >
> > > That's fine, except that's not what the GNU license allows him to do.
> > > > "I have nothing against people who sell
> > > >software, and they should have nothing against me for forbidding >them from
> > > using my software in the software they sell."
> >
> > And if he doesn't like the wording of the FSF license, he should have
> > written it differently.  He had the option.  It was his pencil.  And
> > his words.
> 
> Or, of course, released some of his software under a different license.
> AFAIK, nobody, not even RMS, has to release anything under the GPL if
> they don't want to.

Of course, that means that no code otherwise covered by the GPL can
be used -- because if any _part_ of a product is GPL'd, so must all
derivative work.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From kevan at heydon.org  Thu Dec 10 06:50:08 1998
From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Simon Coombs wrote:
> 
> I know of someone with a Nascom-II, although I don't own one personally. 

I have a couple of these, both in different cases because they are home
built.

I also have an Acorn System5 which you don't see many of, and an Acorn
Cambridge Workstation, plus some other Acorn prototype stuff. But I guess
living in the same city as Acorn helps here.

While not strickly a general purpose computer I have a Brandvance Galactic
Invaders which I have never been able to find more information on. You can
see a picture here:

www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/manufacturer-brandvance/galactic_invaders.html

Finally I hope to be getting a Torch QuadX machine soon which are much
rarer than the more common TripleX machines.

--
Kevan

Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/




From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 07:57:54 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Type list (was: single instance machines)
In-Reply-To: <000601be23bb$436372c0$3ef438cb@a.davie>
References: 
Message-ID: <199812101258.MAA04336@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> I guess prototype 2650 S100 machines / cards qualify?  There must be a lot
> of homebrew "single instance" machines lying around.  Here's one I'm
> particularly fond of...
> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html
> This machine ran CP/M on a 2650 using a software 8080 emulator written in
> 2650.  Slowly!

Just tell me this is a joke ... not only a 2650 _somwhere_, but
rather a real S100 system - Geee I can't get it ... THATS great
I think this is from now on my personal favorite for the most
unusual homebrew uP system of all times. Thats just fantastic!
(BTW, it's maybe not very visible, but I had some relations
to the 2650 in the past ... my first uP :)

Of course this is a _slow_slow_slow_ thing when emulating a
8080 - I guess it runns like a 100 kHz 8080 :))

I know, the idea is not new, but I still think it's worth to do:
What about a list of all systems 'known to exist' i.e. a list
of all machines that are 'alive'. THe question about singularity
comes up every half year, so this list could help. If there is
some interest, I will volunteere to compile this list.

Gruss
Hans

--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch


From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Thu Dec 10 07:03:32 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Type list (was: single instance machines)
In-Reply-To: <199812101258.MAA04336@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <000201be243d$7cf83980$2af438cb@a.davie>

Re: 2650 S100 machine
I obtained this machine from it's designer, and it is definitely NOT a joke!
The particular 2650 processor card in this machine was a prototype for a
card which was published in an electronics magazine here.  I have quite a
few software tapes (yes, cassette tapes, as this ran CP/M from a cassette
(AFAIK)) and can confirm that it was running CP/M via an 8080 emulator
written in 2650.
Machine looks great, and if there's any requests, I'll improve the pictures
and do close-ups.  Totally homebrew in that every single card was made by
the owner - no commercial stuff at all.  Heck, the power supply is even
homebrew :)
Cheers
A

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Hans Franke
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 11:59 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Type list (was: single instance machines)
>
>
> > I guess prototype 2650 S100 machines / cards qualify?  There
> must be a lot
> > of homebrew "single instance" machines lying around.  Here's one I'm
> > particularly fond of...
> > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html
> > This machine ran CP/M on a 2650 using a software 8080 emulator
> written in
> > 2650.  Slowly!
>
> Just tell me this is a joke ... not only a 2650 _somwhere_, but
> rather a real S100 system - Geee I can't get it ... THATS great
> I think this is from now on my personal favorite for the most
> unusual homebrew uP system of all times. Thats just fantastic!
> (BTW, it's maybe not very visible, but I had some relations
> to the 2650 in the past ... my first uP :)
>
> Of course this is a _slow_slow_slow_ thing when emulating a
> 8080 - I guess it runns like a 100 kHz 8080 :))
>
> I know, the idea is not new, but I still think it's worth to do:
> What about a list of all systems 'known to exist' i.e. a list
> of all machines that are 'alive'. THe question about singularity
> comes up every half year, so this list could help. If there is
> some interest, I will volunteere to compile this list.
>
> Gruss
> Hans
>
> --
> Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
> H.Achternbusch
>



From cfandt at netsync.net  Wed Dec  9 21:09:34 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209193328.51074e40@intellistar.net>
References: 
 <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209220419.00ac0630@206.231.8.2>

At 19:33 12/09/98 +0000, Joe  wrote:
>No but I have an Intel developement system.  I DID have seven (yes, seven!)
>HP 64000 Logic Developement Systems but I scrapped them.

Ouch! I would like to add a 64000 to my collection. Oh well . . .

Speaking of devel systems, I have a Zilog Z80 development system type 1/40.
Early enough so that it topped out with 2 mhz Z80 speed chips, no faster.
1977 date I think. I imagine not many of these are left either. Another
dumpster salvage from work :)

Regards,  Chris
-- -- 
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 08:18:58 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
In-Reply-To: <000201be243d$7cf83980$2af438cb@a.davie>
References: <199812101258.MAA04336@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <199812101320.NAA08259@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> Re: 2650 S100 machine
> I obtained this machine from it's designer, and it is definitely NOT a joke!
> The particular 2650 processor card in this machine was a prototype for a
> card which was published in an electronics magazine here.  I have quite a
> few software tapes (yes, cassette tapes, as this ran CP/M from a cassette
> (AFAIK)) and can confirm that it was running CP/M via an 8080 emulator
> written in 2650.
> Machine looks great, and if there's any requests, I'll improve the pictures
> and do close-ups.  Totally homebrew in that every single card was made by
> the owner - no commercial stuff at all.  Heck, the power supply is even
> homebrew :)

Request.

I would also like to see schematics of the CPU board.

Gruss
hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 09:56:39 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: NCR tower  Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <19981209.222656.253.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210095639.43277556@intellistar.net>

At 10:26 PM 12/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:33:52 -0600 (CST) "Richard W. Schauer"
> writes:
>>- Wang OIS-60X word processing server and terminals.  Z80.
>>- CPT 8525 word processor.  8080.
>>- NCR UNIX Tower.  Don't know yet.
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I have the 68010 version of this, *and* I have the OS install tape!
>You are one of two people I know who has NCR hardware!


Jeff,

  There's several of them at the computer scrapper's place here.  Can you
send a list of model numbers that you're interested in and I'll check on
these. I did open one and look at it.  It  was a BIG tower case that slid
out on rails. It had an Intel CPU, a 486-33 I think. There are several more
there that are in tall slim tower cases but I didn't look at them.

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 10:17:38 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Help!  PS 2 model P70
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210101738.301fd946@intellistar.net>

  I have a P70 that won't boot. It displays error numbers 167 and 163. Does
anyone know anything about these? 

   Joe



From transit at primenet.com  Thu Dec 10 08:26:31 1998
From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812101201.MAA24848@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> > >What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't
> > >have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual.
> 
> > Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days.
> 
> VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are

Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?



From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 08:30:27 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: NCR tower  Re: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: 

>>>>- NCR UNIX Tower.  Don't know yet.
>>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>I have the 68010 version of this, *and* I have the OS install tape!
>>>You are one of two people I know who has NCR hardware!
>>
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>  There's several of them at the computer scrapper's place here.  Can you
>>send a list of model numbers that you're interested in and I'll check on
>>these. I did open one and look at it.  It  was a BIG tower case that slid
>>out on rails. It had an Intel CPU, a 486-33 I think. There are several more
>>there that are in tall slim tower cases but I didn't look at them.

I don't think they ever developed the Tower series, or related OS to run
with Intel CPUs. Unisys also released machines using the same hardware,
but with different model numbers.

I have a Tower 750 (I can't remember the NCR 'official' model numbel for
this), with a couple of 380MB Maxtor SCSI disks in it, 150MB SCSI tape
drive, 16 terminal ports  ( I don't have any breakout boxes
unfortunately), 10Mbps ethernet, 39MB memory (that's 32MB of
user-accessible memory, 7MB of ECC / parity code - those memory boards
should keep running forever :)

I've got X-Windows (release 4 I think it was) for the machine - they
appear to be pretty quick boxes from what I remember (due to no free
space I haven't used the thing in the last two years - it failed to
power up last time I tried, so I need to do some work on it sometime)

Get hold of ethernet cards if you can, apparently they aren't that
common. Also SCSI controllers - I get the impression that MFM boards
were used most of the time rather than SCSI, it being a more expensive
technology back then. I'm missing the one most valuable resource for my
Tower - the OS tapes! 

Any questions, just ask - I may be able to help, and should have a few
bits of info lying around for these beasts...

cheers

Jules



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Thu Dec 10 08:45:48 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Charles P. Hobbs" at Dec 10, 98 06:26:31 am
Message-ID: <199812101445.GAA46808@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 09:43:28 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812101201.MAA24848@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <199812101444.OAA23798@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> > > >What about machines that almost everyone has, but a few don't? I don't
> > > >have a Vic20, for example, which is probably pretty unusual.

> > > Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days.

> > VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are

> Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?

Am I allowed to answer ?

Grins
H.

P.S.: as far as I remember no '-' has been used over here.

--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch


From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Thu Dec 10 08:50:46 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Usual?!?!?!
In-Reply-To:  from "cswiger" at Dec 10, 98 03:13:44 am
Message-ID: <199812101450.GAA26454@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 08:55:23 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc>


Somewhat apropos the recent thread about sending mains power 
through modems, can anyone tell me if it's legal or illegal
here in the States to send data in the audio of television or
radio?  Certainly there would be bandwidth and therefore speed
limitations, but does the FCC allow this?  Is it legal in other
countries?  

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 08:55:27 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <19981209.140221.277.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210085527.01d7fc90@pc>

At 10:15 PM 12/9/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
>
>OK, anyone else here got a Tektronix 8000 microprocessor development system
>(either the 11/03 floppy-based one or the 11/23 hard-disk based one)?

In college, I worked with a DEC MiniMINC, a breadbox-sized 11/03
machine, but I've never seen one since.  Love to get one.
I forget - are there any other Terak owners out there?

I've got a Zilog MCZ 05-1014 early Z-80 development system that
runs an OS called RIOS - is that pre-CP/M?  I found a guy via
Dejanews who has several of this line, Fritz Chwolka@nt-gmbh.de .

I've also got a NEC APC-H03, the color version, running MS-DOS 2.11.
It has two NEC 7220 graphics display controllers, one for text and 
one for graphics.  Resolution was 640x494.

At 09:50 PM 12/9/98 -0500, Christian Fandt wrote:
>At 19:51 12/09/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
>>
>>Any other PERQ-fanatics here? Any model of PERQ, I am not expecting 3a or 
>>T4 owners to appear :-)
>
>I have a feeling you would be the only person within our list and perhaps
>most other computer collectors who has a PERQ. I never seen one, know very
>little about them,

I saw my first PERQ at SIGGRAPH '98, in the 70s booth where I exhibited
my Terak.  This PERQ was on loan from The Computer Museum.  I can see why
Tony's always babbling about them.  It exuded serious funk and sass, even
though the one on display wasn't working - although I never met a rep
from the Museum who could tell me about it, the machine sat dark.
My Terak was one of the few machines running in the exhibit, the docents
happily played Breakout with sound effects.

- John



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Thu Dec 10 09:03:05 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 9, 98 06:25:02 pm
Message-ID: <199812101503.HAA26520@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From cfandt at netsync.net  Thu Dec 10 09:09:39 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Need an IBM 9309-2 Rack Enclosure
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981209095541.00a90ce0@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981209215732.00abf560@206.231.8.2>

At 18:05 12/09/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Some of you know I rescued an IBM 9370 system from my now-ex employer in
>> mid-'97. 
>
>RCS/RI has so many, WERE GIVING THEM AWAY!

9309's or 9370's? I'll take a 9309-2! Already got the 9370 :)

But how do I get a 9309-2 (or a couple of -1's)? Anybody heading out this
way from RI with a truck??:) (I'm kinda serious with that question...)

>
>If you treat us kindly, you might find an RS/6000 930 (ex NSFnet router)
>in it.

Is this a RISC machine? (I'm not up on the RS/6k's) But I need the rack
space inside though . . .

>
>I also have complete docs for the 9309s, in all their flavors.

I've got some 9309 docs: GA24-4103-03 (Gen'l Info + Site Prep),
S124-0155-02 (Parts Cat.) and SY24-4075-04 (Service guide).

Could use: GA24-4039-0x (Setup + Operation Guide) and SA24-4077-0x (Guide
to Analyzing Problems) and GA24-4101-0x (Installing the 9309 Stabilizer).
The x's stand for the revisions which should be around early 1988 which is
just after the vintage of the machine.

I've got a bunch of other docs that are for the 9370 itself and
9332-400/600 and 9347 units. A few are missing I think.

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com  Thu Dec 10 09:16:06 1998
From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Help!  PS 2 model P70
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981210101738.301fd946@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210071606.00965eb0@mail.bluefeathertech.com>

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From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Thu Dec 10 09:31:10 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: It's DEC-10 today!
Message-ID: <13410670121.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

Happy DEC 10, folks!
-------


From jeff.kaneko at juno.com  Thu Dec 10 09:26:52 1998
From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <19981210.093001.256.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>

That's the story I heard.
The original name Commodore chose for the VIC was 'Vixen'.
In German, that's a naughty word, too.

Jeff

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:45:48 -0800 (PST) Cameron Kaiser
 writes:
>::Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?
>
>The running apocryphal story is because VIC, pronounced "fick" in 
>German,
>comes out as a naughty word. (Take a guess.) There is some doubt 
>about
>the veracity of this, of course.
>
>-- 
>-------------------------- personal page: 
>http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ --
>Cameron Kaiser              Information Technology Services Database 
>Programmer
>Point Loma Nazarene University                             Fax: +1 619 
>849 2581
>ckaiser@ptloma.edu                                       Phone: +1 619 
>849 2539
>-- He who Laughs, Lasts. 
>------------------------------------------------------
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 10:35:47 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc>
Message-ID: <199812101536.PAA01565@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> Somewhat apropos the recent thread about sending mains power 
> through modems, can anyone tell me if it's legal or illegal
> here in the States to send data in the audio of television or
> radio?  Certainly there would be bandwidth and therefore speed
> limitations, but does the FCC allow this?  Is it legal in other
> countries?  

I guess it is perfect legal as long as you stay in band.
It is legal in Germany and we have (weiss Gott) a lot of
regulations. The WDR Computer Club (a TV and radio hobby
computer show of the WDR) this a lot of transmissions in
the mid 80s. AFAIR they also transmited programms using
the Teletext system - additional pages with binary
information have been inserted to distribute software.

But since programms started to grow beyond 1 to 10 KB,
the transmission times became unacceptabe - AFAIR the
bandwidth of teletext is less than two K-Byte per
second and they only could use some pages, since
'ordinary' TV viewers still wanted their information
pages transmited. On radio they cut of I think at 5
Minutes - so the maximum Programm was some 20 KB - all
transmission was done IN BAND, while via TV up to 200 KB
have been transmitted (in Austria at least).

At one time the stereo chanals (used as dual monao) have
also been used during the Show to transmit software - on
A (left) the regular sound was transmitted, while on B
(right) the software describen in the show was transmitted.


AFAIR the BBC did also transmit software thru teletext
pages (in GB).

Even in the DDR (east Germany) radio was used to transmit
home computer programms. I have several recordings from
DTF99 computer shows - at this times the whole east German
comuter hobbyist nation was recording the shows ... at
least that is what they told me :)

Gruss
hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From bill at chipware.com  Thu Dec 10 09:41:37 1998
From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Up for grabs:  Unusual video cable
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000601be2453$928be600$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com>

> > DA15, surely? Same as an ethernet AUI connector shell.
> > Sounds like the video cable for a VAXstation or DECstation. No, 
> 
> Apollo workstations also use that connector on their colour framebuffers.

Or possibly an OkiStation.


From bill at chipware.com  Thu Dec 10 09:55:34 1998
From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000701be2455$85645dc0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com>

George Rachor wrote:
> Finally another Ohio Scientific owner....
> 
> I have a few OSI C2's and one C4... All are diskless.
What varieties of C2?  I have a C2OEM a C2NET and a C2NETB,
according to the ID plates.  Whether they are still what OSI
had in mind for those configs I don't know.  The C2NET was just
case, backplane and power supply when I got it, I've been adding
boards as I acquire them.  I guess technically it's really a C3
now, as it has a 555 CPU in it.
I don't have a C4 in my collection.  I passed on one about five
years ago.  It was in pretty good shape, with most of the docs
and software, but the guy wanted $150 for it.  I haven't seen one
since and I'm starting to kick myself for not taking it.
> 
> My dream find would be an OSI C8 or a C4 Mini-floppy drive.
A C8?  Doesn't ring a bell.  What CPU?  Was it OSI 48 pin bus?
I'll have to dig through my old Bytes.  At least I can just scan
the back covers!
> 
> I wouldn't mind eventually getting some of my software moved from tape to
> CD.
> 
> George Rachor



From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Thu Dec 10 10:11:59 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
Message-ID: <981210111159.2f0003fa@trailing-edge.com>

>Somewhat apropos the recent thread about sending mains power 
>through modems, can anyone tell me if it's legal or illegal
>here in the States to send data in the audio of television or
>radio?

Yes - and it's commonly done.  The new Emergency Broadcast
System replacement transmits 1200 bps (I believe Bell 212A
modulation) bursts over TV and radio audio.  And many different
digital services are encoded in the video blanking interval of
TV signals - closed captioning, timestamps, and program
information, among others.  

>  Certainly there would be bandwidth and therefore speed
>limitations, but does the FCC allow this?

It's a requirement of the new EBS replacement!

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927


From grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 10:23:26 1998
From: grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk (Grant Mitchell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
Message-ID: <199812101622.QAA16552@gauss.maths.abdn.ac.uk>

There was a program once, here in the UK which sent data via a flashing dot
in the bottom of the screen. You attached a little photo-sensor on the
bottom of the screen
while the show was being broadcast (similar I guess to those casio
watches).
 I'm not sure what the data rate was though, as I never made one of the
gizmo's
 for decoding it.

On a similar note, does anyone own one of those toys for the Captain Power
TV
series. Apparently it picked up the "interference" pattern on the bad guy's
chest,
and allowed you to shoot it. It also, if memory serves, picked up the
enemy's
laser, and would tell you if you had been shot. Anyone know of any other
good interactive TV attempts?

Grant.

----------
> From: Hans Franke 
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers

> Subject: Re: Modem tones over television or radio
> Date: 10 December 1998 15:36
> 
> AFAIR the BBC did also transmit software thru teletext
> pages (in GB).
> 
> Gruss
> hans
> 
> --
> Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
> HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 10:41:50 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <981210111159.2f0003fa@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210104150.00f579b0@pc>

At 11:11 AM 12/10/98 -0500, jfoust@threedee.com wrote:
>And many different
>digital services are encoded in the video blanking interval of
>TV signals - closed captioning, timestamps, and program
>information, among others.  

I'm quite familiar with info stuffed in the video blanking
interval and other scanlines (once upon a time in '82 or so, 
I interfaced a RSTS dial-up to a LINC/8 so as to make weather 
reports available online) but those schemes seem "out of band"
to me - they're not in the audio.

>>  Certainly there would be bandwidth and therefore speed
>>limitations, but does the FCC allow this?
>
>It's a requirement of the new EBS replacement!

Cynical as I am, the fact that the government is allowed to
do something doesn't tell me it's legal for citizens.  :-)

I seem to remember something about tone encoding/decoding
being illegal within citizen's band radio, for example.



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Thu Dec 10 11:10:31 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: networking newbie
In-Reply-To: <36642494.24942647@rain.org>
Message-ID: 

As my wife will be traveling with me I just called and without mentioning
NAR or the good Captain I got $69 per night for the both of us.

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:

> Julian Richardson wrote:
> > 
> > Not that I'm rather stressed out at the way the computing industry
> > blindly follows the big players round (sarcasm mode is on here, folks!)
> > - but I run up against this brick wall time after time. People high up
> > in a company see something as a risk unless they have to invest lots of
> > time and money in puchasing it and supporting it - they just don't seem
> > to feel safe if the product in question is low-cost (or free!) and runs
> > itself without any trouble, even if such "features" are rammed down
> > their throats. It's a very scary industry.
> 
> The Halloween Papers showed one of the strategies was to attack the process
> rather than the implementation; sounds like that is what you are up against.
> 
> And on the same topic, didn't DECUS provide free (or low cost) software
> applications? Did the same mentality apply to that, or did the letters "DEC"
> tend to give more credibility to that software?
> 



From transit at primenet.com  Thu Dec 10 11:44:32 1998
From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: VIC's in Germany (was: Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812101444.OAA23798@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
> > > VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are
> 
> > Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?
> 
> Am I allowed to answer ?
> 

Sure!



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Thu Dec 10 12:31:50 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: networking newbie
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

Sorry... wrong list
George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Thu Dec 10 12:35:58 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210103354.009b79a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local
programming. If you get a satellite dish (one of the big ones) and download
directly (and you find an downlink that isn't encrypted these days) you
will hear them all the time. There are codes for "insert your commercial
here" and "breaking news story" etc. They cue automatic switchers at the
local end.

--Chuck

At 08:55 AM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Somewhat apropos the recent thread about sending mains power 
>through modems, can anyone tell me if it's legal or illegal
>here in the States to send data in the audio of television or
>radio?  Certainly there would be bandwidth and therefore speed
>limitations, but does the FCC allow this?  Is it legal in other
>countries?  
>
>- John
>




From ddameron at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 10 12:37:54 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: E.I. Homebuilt Computer (was Re: "Single instance"
  machines)
Message-ID: <199812101837.KAA07212@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi Aaron and all,
At 01:57 AM 12/10/98 -0800, you wrote:

>> > And the 1/3 part is in the form of the "electronic" computer I'm building
>> > from the January 1960 issue of Electronics Illustrated...(flip-flops,
>> > light-bulbs, and a rotary phone dial - woo-hoo!) I'm about 1/3
>> > completed...
>> 
>> One of my favorite early personal computers!  I regret that the designer
>> didn't give it a name, though.  Specs:
>> 
>> Name: "Electronic Computer"
>> Intro: Jan 1960

>Did you actually build one of these? I was thinking of taking the author's
>suggestion and upgrading the memory to 10 bits...
>
>Do you have the magazine? If you don't, and get around to putting up a web
>page, I'll gladly scan the article to put on it. Actually, if anyone else
>is interested, I could scan it and make it available for anyone who want's
>to hack around on it. Pretty cool, actually.
>
I would be interested in the article. I built the later one (E.I., about
1966) with 60 neon lamps as 6 decade shift register/counters and a rotary
telephone dial. This one used 3 12AU7/ECC82 as 6 buffer amps. The diodes in
it I used were from scrapped IBM assemblies. I still have some 6V lamps in
orange plastic holders from the same scrapyard, used on some IBM panels.
-Dave




From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 13:38:54 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: VIC's in Germany (was: Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812101444.OAA23798@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <199812101839.SAA21535@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > > > VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are
> > > Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?
> > Am I allowed to answer ?
> Sure!

First, like Cameron already explaned, if VIC is pronounced
as one word it gives the same sound as f*ck (*insert here the
language specific vovel) - this is region dependant, but
especialy true in the area where Commodore was located.
Second, if spelled (Vau Ih Ceh) it sounds clumbsy, while
VC (Vau Ceh) could be spoken fluent. And third, Commodore
tried to catch up with the marketing idea of a VolksComputer.
Like the Volkswagen :)

Also the C64 was marketed as VC 64 in the beginning :)

Gruss
Hans


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Thu Dec 10 12:49:51 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: E.I. Homebuilt Computer (was Re: "Single instance"
In-Reply-To: <199812101837.KAA07212@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "dave dameron" at Dec 10, 98 10:37:54 am
Message-ID: <199812101849.KAA45786@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 13:51:24 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812101503.HAA26520@oa.ptloma.edu>
References:  from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 9, 98 06:25:02 pm
Message-ID: <199812101852.SAA22208@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> ::Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days.

> Not that difficult. They appear on eBay from time to time and a place around
> here has a few refurbished models in stock. They *do* seem to inspire more
> loyalty to them than the 64 did, though, for some inexplicable reason.

Don't forget: the V(I)C-20 was a bit faster and a way better
design then the C64.

Gruss
H.
And by the way, to catch up with the title - is there any
other Commodore B500 around, or a Pascal Microengine ?

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From lfb107 at psu.edu  Thu Dec 10 13:14:55 1998
From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <199812101911.OAA76798@f04n07.cac.psu.edu>

At 07:19 PM 12/9/98, Joe wrote:
>At 02:27 PM 12/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:
>>
>>> >    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or two?
>>                                       ^^^
>>
>>Whazzat?
>
>  That's a brain-fart. It should have said 3B2.

Well, in that case, i've got one too.  (with the expansion module)

Les




From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 13:10:35 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210103354.009b79a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210131035.00fed7c0@pc>

At 10:35 AM 12/10/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local
>programming. 

Yes, I've heard those - although they're in the audio, they're
supposed to be stripped before the audience gets the signal, no?

With the advent of software modems and ubiquitous sound cards,
you'd think we'd see more occurences of "hold your microphone
up to the speaker (or earpiece) to receive data".  Or a little
data in the audio track on a CD - it's today's equivalent of
"Paul is dead," no?

- John



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Thu Dec 10 13:37:04 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210131035.00fed7c0@pc>
References: <4.1.19981210103354.009b79a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
 <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210113621.00b89880@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

I got just two words for you:
	Actimates Barney

In this case it is "have your toy 'look' at the television set..."

At 01:10 PM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 10:35 AM 12/10/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>>TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local
>>programming. 
>
>Yes, I've heard those - although they're in the audio, they're
>supposed to be stripped before the audience gets the signal, no?
>
>With the advent of software modems and ubiquitous sound cards,
>you'd think we'd see more occurences of "hold your microphone
>up to the speaker (or earpiece) to receive data".  Or a little
>data in the audio track on a CD - it's today's equivalent of
>"Paul is dead," no?
>
>- John
>




From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 13:44:31 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210113621.00b89880@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <3.0.5.32.19981210131035.00fed7c0@pc>
 <4.1.19981210103354.009b79a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>

At 11:37 AM 12/10/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>I got just two words for you:
>	Actimates Barney
>
>In this case it is "have your toy 'look' at the television set..."

Well, as I understand it, the purple one's "TV Pack" includes a special
RF transmitter that grabs a signal from specially encoded videotapes
or even the PBS show.  Where did they stuff the signal - in the video
or the audio?  If audio, at what frequency?  Or is it just in the
second audio channel, like bilingual programming?

Does anyone remember any pre-BBS-era, pre-Internet attempts to send
modem tones over US radio or television programming?

- John



From fauradon at pclink.com  Thu Dec 10 13:59:34 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: single instance machines
Message-ID: <000601be2477$9c49c120$1f6e0181@fauradon.beckman.com>

You've got a brain-fart with an expansion module?

>At 07:19 PM 12/9/98, Joe wrote:
>>At 02:27 PM 12/9/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>> >    Hmmm. I have two AT&T 3B1 model 310s. Does that count as one or
two?
>>>                                       ^^^
>>>
>>>Whazzat?
>>
>>  That's a brain-fart. It should have said 3B2.
>
>Well, in that case, i've got one too.  (with the expansion module)
>
>Les
>
>



From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 14:00:29 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, John Foust wrote:

> Does anyone remember any pre-BBS-era, pre-Internet attempts to send
> modem tones over US radio or television programming?

I've got two words for you, too:

Packet Radio.

OK, it wasn't part of "normal" programming and it wasn't pre-BBS (there
were barely pre-BBS microcomputers), but I couldn't resist another
two-worder.  :-) 

-- Doug



From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Thu Dec 10 14:10:07 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
Message-ID: <981210151007.2f000434@trailing-edge.com>

>>It's a requirement of the new EBS replacement!
>Cynical as I am, the fact that the government is allowed to
>do something doesn't tell me it's legal for citizens.  :-)

Well, broadcasters do, for many purposes, have the status of
super-citizens.  In today's FCC, all you need to do is have
enough cash in hand and you can get the government to sell you
whatever chunk of radio/microwave spectrum you decide are
necessary.  It doesn't matter that the new services stomp all
over bands that were previously reserved for medical equipment
or radio astronomy - after all, what does it matter whether


>I seem to remember something about tone encoding/decoding
>being illegal within citizen's band radio, for example.

In shared bandwidth applications, modes that can obliterate
existing services usually are tightly regulated.

There's also the matter of "encrypted transmissions", too.
For example, the ARRL had a special waiver written into FCC Part 97
that allows them to send 5-character Morse Code groups solely for the
purpose of practice.  And when I got started in RTTY, only Baudot
transmissions were allowed on the ham bands - ASCII wasn't an approved
encoding until a few years later.

>The new system is called EAS (Emergency Alerting System),
>replacing the old EBS.

Thank you!  I knew the EBS replacement wasn't called EBS anymore, but
I couldn't quite remember what it was called.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 14:10:46 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: E.I. Homebuilt Computer (was Re: "Single instance"  machines)
In-Reply-To: <199812101837.KAA07212@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote:

> I would be interested in the article. I built the later one (E.I., about
> 1966) with 60 neon lamps as 6 decade shift register/counters and a rotary
> telephone dial. This one used 3 12AU7/ECC82 as 6 buffer amps. The diodes in
> it I used were from scrapped IBM assemblies. I still have some 6V lamps in
> orange plastic holders from the same scrapyard, used on some IBM panels.

Very cool, Dave!  I didn't know about that one.  Any chance you can
pin-point the issue it appeared in?

I have the 1960 article, but I haven't built the 1960 machine (yet).
The nice case alone looks like it would be a coupla hundred bucks to
replicate today, but I suppose you could just make a bare-board version.

-- Doug



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 15:27:17 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or radio)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>
References: <4.1.19981210113621.00b89880@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: <199812102028.UAA27865@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >I got just two words for you:
> >	Actimates Barney

> >In this case it is "have your toy 'look' at the television set..."

> Well, as I understand it, the purple one's "TV Pack" includes a special
> RF transmitter that grabs a signal from specially encoded videotapes
> or even the PBS show.  Where did they stuff the signal - in the video
> or the audio?  If audio, at what frequency?  Or is it just in the
> second audio channel, like bilingual programming?

Just to get this right - You are talkig about the Purple
Monster (Barney loves you - I was at the Universal Studios
LA some 4 or 5 years ago with a friend when they just had
a special Barney feature around the park - my friend still
goes crazy when I mention 'Barney loves you' :) - so this
is about the purple Godzilla guy and there is a 'toy' that
works with some effects of the show ? What does it do ?
What effects ? What triggers ? Whats the price ? Or is it
already vintage ? I NEED TO KNOW - the perfect gift for
my friend (together wit a fiting barney video).

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Dec 10 14:34:57 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981209115950.30bf9f86@ricochet.net>

> I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> represented on this list. 

Okay, here's a couple of recent acquisitions that might be unique on this
list:

Sharp PC-5000
V-Marc 88a
Datavue 25
Datavue Spark

Hopefully, I am not alone with these...  The last two were actually made by
Quadram.

And of course, I just passed on to other collectors, not one, but two
Symbolics 3600's, and a Sanyo MBC-8000.

And just to make sure we all get our daily dose of off-topic-ness, I have
an *autographed* CD of Vivaldi's complete Lute concertos!  (No, not
Vivaldi's autograph, Jacob Lindberg, the lutenist.)




From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Thu Dec 10 14:34:59 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net>

I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 

Thanks...


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From spc at armigeron.com  Fri Dec 11 14:37:48 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Dec 10, 98 12:34:59 pm
Message-ID: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com>

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From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Thu Dec 10 14:54:05 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or
  radio)
In-Reply-To: <199812102028.UAA27865@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
References: <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>
 <4.1.19981210113621.00b89880@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210125212.009e5f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

Lots of people in the states sell them, its called the "Actimates" Barney.
As I understood it the toy "saw" signals in the form of IR coded pulses in
the video and responded appropriately. There are a couple of groups on the
net who have hacked the toy to give the dinosaur an extended, if somewhat
less refined, vocabulary.

--Chuck

At 09:28 PM 12/10/98 +0001, you wrote:
>> >I got just two words for you:
>> >	Actimates Barney
>
>> >In this case it is "have your toy 'look' at the television set..."
>
>> Well, as I understand it, the purple one's "TV Pack" includes a special
>> RF transmitter that grabs a signal from specially encoded videotapes
>> or even the PBS show.  Where did they stuff the signal - in the video
>> or the audio?  If audio, at what frequency?  Or is it just in the
>> second audio channel, like bilingual programming?
>
>Just to get this right - You are talkig about the Purple
>Monster (Barney loves you - I was at the Universal Studios
>LA some 4 or 5 years ago with a friend when they just had
>a special Barney feature around the park - my friend still
>goes crazy when I mention 'Barney loves you' :) - so this
>is about the purple Godzilla guy and there is a 'toy' that
>works with some effects of the show ? What does it do ?
>What effects ? What triggers ? Whats the price ? Or is it
>already vintage ? I NEED TO KNOW - the perfect gift for
>my friend (together wit a fiting barney video).
>
>Gruss
>Hans
>
>--
>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
>HRK




From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 15:57:41 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:05 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com>
References: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Dec 10, 98 12:34:59 pm
Message-ID: <199812102058.UAA29490@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
> > collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
> > specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
> > info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 

>   Why did you use  instead of  time>?  How long did it take to design?  What was the indended market?  What
> was the actual market?  Stuff like that.

Are you shure this is interesting ? I doubt. Why X was used
instead of Y has almost no meaning - Stories around - thats
the stuff I like (For example about the orgin of a cigarette
burn in the operator table of the 2002 in the Deutsches
Museum) and stories how they did id, how they fighted the
management, the technic, the supply,  etc. (and I guess
these are also the stories that they like more to tell :)

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Thu Dec 10 16:04:25 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or  radio)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210125212.009e5f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <199812102028.UAA27865@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <199812102105.VAA29686@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

Date sent:      	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:54:05 -0800
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@u.washington.edu
From:           	Chuck McManis 
To:             	"Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" 
Subject:        	OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or
 	radio)

> Lots of people in the states sell them, its called the "Actimates" Barney.
> As I understood it the toy "saw" signals in the form of IR coded pulses in
> the video and responded appropriately. There are a couple of groups on the
> net who have hacked the toy to give the dinosaur an extended, if somewhat
> less refined, vocabulary.

Any URL ? I did a quick search, but only comercial sites (like MS:
http://microsoft.com./products/hardware/actimates/barney/default.htm )
showed up - and I got a strange feeling reading about what this
toy is intended to do:


See what your child can learn with Actimates Barney!

Cooperation
Good Citizenship
Following Directions
...


Brrrrrrr.... Brave new world.

Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From cfandt at netsync.net  Thu Dec 10 15:17:12 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>

I just checked out the newly-remodeled Salvation Army Thrift Store and
found a nice piece: a new-in-the-box Hewlett-Packard Thinkjet model 2225B
equiped with HP-IL interface.  All accessories are there, plastic wrap
still over the machine, battery pack there too. $15 sounded fair enough I
think. I should go back more often. They usually had ancient PeeCee junk in
real tough shape for way too much $$$ whenever I was there before. But now
with the remodel, a new manager and finding this gem maybe I'll keep
checking more often. Besides, they're only about 150 meters from our house:)

This is great as I already have a couple of HP 75's to use it with. Or it
could be used on a PC as I've got an HP-IL-to-HPIB converter and a PC
IEEE488 card. 

Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead of
the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results? 

They also had an Epson CX-20 handset coupler for $5 new in the box (plastic
wrap still on the device). Anybody want it for the cost plus shipping? Let
me know ASAP!

Regards,  Chris
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu Dec 10 15:18:26 1998
From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: 


> collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
> specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
> info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 
> 

Ask if they were trying to persue a specific market or application
class?  Another may be what were some of the design goals?

Compupro for example made a lot of boards that did DMA on s100 and also
multimastering. This gave them a huge performace advantage (and ieee696
complience).

Allison




From donm at cts.com  Thu Dec 10 15:28:34 1998
From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Christian Fandt wrote:

> I just checked out the newly-remodeled Salvation Army Thrift Store and
> found a nice piece: a new-in-the-box Hewlett-Packard Thinkjet model 2225B
> equiped with HP-IL interface.  All accessories are there, plastic wrap
> still over the machine, battery pack there too. $15 sounded fair enough I
> think. I should go back more often. They usually had ancient PeeCee junk in
> real tough shape for way too much $$$ whenever I was there before. But now
> with the remodel, a new manager and finding this gem maybe I'll keep
> checking more often. Besides, they're only about 150 meters from our house:)
> 
> This is great as I already have a couple of HP 75's to use it with. Or it
> could be used on a PC as I've got an HP-IL-to-HPIB converter and a PC
> IEEE488 card. 
> 
> Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead of
> the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results? 

I used to use it in a QuietJet printer - same cartridge.  Worked fine!

						 - don
 
> They also had an Epson CX-20 handset coupler for $5 new in the box (plastic
> wrap still on the device). Anybody want it for the cost plus shipping? Let
> me know ASAP!
> 
> Regards,  Chris
> Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
> Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
> Member of Antique Wireless Association
>         URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
> 

    donm@cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
         Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
       Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
     Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard  (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
        see old system support at  http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm
   	 with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm




From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Thu Dec 10 16:09:19 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: 

One might ask two questions:

What was the largest techincal challange in bringing your device to
market?

What was the largest non-technical challange in bringing you device to
market?

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote:

> It was thus said that the Great Uncle Roger once stated:
> > 
> > I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
> > collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
> > specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
> > info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 
> 
>   Why did you use  instead of  time>?  How long did it take to design?  What was the indended market?  What
> was the actual market?  Stuff like that.
> 
>   -spc (Wants to know why IBM forgot pull up resistors on the IRQ
> 	controller ... )
> 
> 



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 12:47:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209225634.4cb7887c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 10:56:34 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 12:50:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Tek 31 was Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981209232016.4aff716c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 9, 98 11:20:16 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 12:57:10 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
In-Reply-To: <00f901be23e5$424120c0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Dec 10, 98 01:01:36 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 13:17:02 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: <199812101015.KAA04986@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 10, 98 11:15:51 am
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 13:28:38 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Kevan Heydon" at Dec 10, 98 04:50:08 am
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 13:03:11 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209210741.00aaf440@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 9, 98 09:50:47 pm
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 15:21:38 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 10, 98 08:55:23 am
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 16:12:54 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210085527.01d7fc90@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 10, 98 08:55:27 am
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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 13:12:58 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Altair Collectors Association
In-Reply-To:  from "cswiger" at Dec 10, 98 03:03:52 am
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From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 16:27:18 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com>
References: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210162718.00fc2810@pc>

>It was thus said that the Great Uncle Roger once stated:
>> 
>> I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
>> collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
>> specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
>> info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 
>
>  Why did you use  instead of time>?  How long did it take to design?  What was the indended market?  What
>was the actual market?  Stuff like that.

Yes, I think the historical context is important - which machines
did they compete against, who did they believe were their best customers,
what were they wrong about, why did they succeed or fail, and the
all important "Don't forget, at this time, XYZ hadn't been invented yet."

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 16:34:56 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or
   radio)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210125212.009e5f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <199812102028.UAA27865@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
 <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210163456.00fca070@pc>

At 12:54 PM 12/10/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>Lots of people in the states sell them, its called the "Actimates" Barney.
>As I understood it the toy "saw" signals in the form of IR coded pulses in
>the video and responded appropriately. 


says it's a radio transmitter.  I don't know how you'd reliably 
transmit IR from a TV screen.

Brightness, maybe, like a DataLink watch.  Come to think of it, the 
first "dildonics" product for the web works like that: a little sensor 
suction-cupped to the screen modulated a vibrator.

But really, I try to keep this on-topic for the CCC ML.  :-)

- John



From jfoust at threedee.com  Thu Dec 10 16:38:57 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.5.32.19981210085527.01d7fc90@pc>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981210163857.00fcdce0@pc>

At 10:12 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
>> 
>> In college, I worked with a DEC MiniMINC, a breadbox-sized 11/03
>> machine, but I've never seen one since.  Love to get one.
>
>I've heard of the miniMINC. Wasn't it based on the PDT11/150? 

I didn't know it by that name.  I remember a white metal box,
about as wide as its eight-inch drive, maybe 15 inches tall,
running RT-11 and a BASIC at least.

- John



From fmc at reanimators.org  Thu Dec 10 16:40:02 1998
From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: Christian Fandt's message of Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:17:12 -0500
References: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <199812102240.OAA01552@daemonweed.reanimators.org>

Christian Fandt  wrote:
> Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead of
> the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results? 

It depends on the cartridge, or more precisely the ink in the
cartridge.  When the Thinkjet first came out, there was only one type
of cartridge and you were encouraged to use the special Thinkjet paper
-- plain paper would work but didn't absorb the ink as well, and so
the printing would be sort of smeared but legible.  

Later, HP came up with plain-paper cartridges and sold both flavors.
I don't know whether they still sell the cartridges for Thinkjet
paper, but I guess that if you can get the paper you can probably get
the cartridges too.  They are the same cartridges as for the QuietJet
printers (same idea but wider carriage) so I'd expect you can still
get them in office-supply stores.

-Frank McConnell


From cfandt at netsync.net  Thu Dec 10 17:02:50 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or
   radio)
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210125212.009e5f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <199812102028.UAA27865@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
 <3.0.5.32.19981210134431.010265e0@pc>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210174911.00adb450@206.231.8.2>

At 12:54 12/10/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>Lots of people in the states sell them, its called the "Actimates" Barney.
>As I understood it the toy "saw" signals in the form of IR coded pulses in

IR??? I don't think the red phosphor on the CRT screen emits anything in
the IR range. If it did, the electron beam hitting the red phosphor would
still emit visible light too and there might be an apparent flickering
image. Somewhere around in my color TV archives I think I've got a
technical bulletin from RCA on their color picture tube phosphors which
could verify the spectral output. (RCA developed the first tri-color CRT to
work with their electronic color system introduced in 1953.)

My guess would be that a single scan frame out of the 30 frames-per-second
(in the NTSC standard) picture signal would be blanked at a rate that the
toy's electronics would decode as specific commands. Usually, the 1 frame
missed out of 30 is not noticed by the human eye depending upon the light
saturation of the scene transmitted.

>the video and responded appropriately. There are a couple of groups on the
>net who have hacked the toy to give the dinosaur an extended, if somewhat
>less refined, vocabulary.

Oooh hoo hoo! I can imagine the fun which ensues:)

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 19:06:34 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Tek 31 was Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.16.19981209232016.4aff716c@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210190634.2e9f94a2@intellistar.net>

Tony,

  Thanks for the info. I'll look for the DC 300s.  In fact, someone on the
list has already offered me some :-)

   Joe


At 06:50 PM 12/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> ones fo the 4051?  My 4051 manual says that they're standard DC 300 tapes.
>> I got one tape with the machine. I have no idea how hard DC 300s are to
>> find anymore.
>
>DC300 became DC300XLP (longer tape), and are the same size as DC600 
>cartridges. DC300XLP tapes are still sold in the UK.
>
>A word of warning. Some of the earlier tape drives, like the Archive
>Sidewider have fairly soft heads. Use DC600s (thinner tape) in those, and
>the heads will wear slightly differently. And then you'll find that DC300s
>are difficult to read. I'll use DC300XLPs but nothing thinner. 
>
>-tony
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 19:10:06 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981209210741.00aaf440@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210191006.3027eb72@intellistar.net>

Tony,

  Do you know anything about the Tektronix 4096 plotters?  I saw one the
other day. I started to buy it to add to my 4051 (it has the GP-IB interface).

   Joe

At 07:03 PM 12/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> >Any other PERQ-fanatics here? Any model of PERQ, I am not expecting 3a or 
>> >T4 owners to appear :-)
>> 
>> I have a feeling you would be the only person within our list and perhaps
>> most other computer collectors who has a PERQ. I never seen one, know very
>
>That depends on the group of collectors. There are a number of serious 
>'PERQ-fantics' around, but for some reason, not many are on this list.
>
>> >You _have_ a Tek 31? Wow! I've heard of it (and the similar 21), but 
>> >never seen one.
>
>[...]
>
>> Never heard of a TEK 31 myself  'till then. When I saw it I figured I had
>> better grab it since I felt it was a rather rare thing even back then. I
>> don't recall finding anything on it in my collection of older TEK catalogs.
>
>There was an article on them (21 and 31) in Tekscope when they came out. 
>Alas I didn't rescue the pile of Tekscopes that I read that in - some 
>other collector got them. I got the HP journals (including the one on the 
>9100 ;-))
>
>[...]
>
>> Was the TEK 21 you mentioned above earlier than the TEK 31 or just
>> different in other ways?
>
>It came out at the same time. It was a simpler machine, I was going to 
>say non-programmable, apart from the fact that I have a part number for 
>an operating/programming manual for it. Maybe it didn't have all the 
>'scientific' functions.
>
>> 
>> >
>> >However, I do have the service manual for the 4661 plotter that goes with 
>> >these machines. I'm not getting rid of it - I have a 4662 plotter and 
>> >much of the mechanics is the same - but I can provide info from it.
>> 
>> Are these plotters similar in concept to the 4331 printers? Used a special
>> thermal paper I think. Such printer could hang off my TEK 4015-1 graphics
>
>No, they're actual flatbed pen plotters.
>
>> terminal and print directly from the screen. The 401x series had an X-Y
>> analog plotter output for actual plotting.
>
>The 4662 is a normal (although not HPGL) GPIB or RS232 interfaced 
>plotter. It was used with the 405x series amongst other things. The 4661 
>was a similar unit with a 21/31 calculator interface (and totally 
>different electronics).
>
>> 
>> >
>> >Here is the pinout of the calculator I/O connector. 
>> 
>> Evidently in that service manual it mentions the plotter could hang off a
>> TEK 31, true? If so, then this is indeed the connector pinout for my TEK
>
>Yes. That's why I mentioned it. That should be the pinout of the 
>connector on the back of the 31. Alas I don't have the 'interface 
>specification' (I can find the Tek part number if you want to try to 
>obtain it) for this machine.
>
>> >I have an incomplete (still missing the lights-and-switches board) Nova 
>> >1210 here.
>> 
>> Hmmm, I have to check but I *think* there is something about 1210's in the
>> DG Nova printset I have. I know there's schemas for the 1200 and 800
>
>I've got the schematics of the CPU + frontpanel. It's just a matter of 
>finding time to make a PCB, etc...
>
>-tony
>
>



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 19:14:30 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <199812102240.OAA01552@daemonweed.reanimators.org>
References: 
 <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210191430.4b0f6eb0@intellistar.net>

At 02:40 PM 12/10/98 -0800, Frank wrote:


 They are the same cartridges as for the QuietJet
>printers (same idea but wider carriage) so I'd expect you can still
>get them in office-supply stores.
>
>-Frank McConnell

  The Canon Diconix printers also use the same cartridge.  In fact, I'm
fairly certain that the HP cartridges were made by Canon.

   Joe



From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Dec 10 17:13:06 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com> (spc@armigeron.com)
References: <199812112037.PAA01053@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: <19981210231306.26966.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner"  wrote:
>   -spc (Wants to know why IBM forgot pull up resistors on the IRQ
> 	controller ... )

Because they stupidly decided to make them

1)  edge-triggered instead of level-sensitive

2)  rising-edge-triggered instead of falling-edge-triggered

Thus, if they had pullup resistors they would tend to trigger by themselves.

Of course, this doesn't explain why they didn't have pullDOWN resistors,
or why they made those two stupid decisions in the first place.

Ugh!  That's yet another reason why even though the IBM PC is technically
within the charter for this mailing list, I still refuse to consider it
a Classic.

Eric


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 19:24:16 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: FSOT: Microchannel PC cards
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210192416.301f5c6a@intellistar.net>

More house cleaning!  Found these two cards; IBM Auto 16/4 Token Ring
Adapter/A (FRU 94X1756) and a 300/1200/2400 Baud MODEM (FRU 53F7748). Both
are original IBM cards. I'll take $20 + shipping for the pair or trade for
goodies for my Altair, Tek 4051 or HP stuff.

   Joe



From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Dec 10 17:22:00 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
Message-ID: <19981210232200.27024.qmail@brouhaha.com>

In the Reader to Reader column of issue 81 of The Computer Journal

	http://www2.psyber.com/~tcj/rtr81.html

Rex Widmer mentions finding a photo of a The Digital Group computer in a
photo on the VCF web pages.  I can't seem to find it; does anyone have a
URL for it, or a copy of the image?

And does anyone have a current email address for Rex?

Rex mentioned that Hugh McDonald published a newsletter with tips on
Digital Group systems; does anone have copies, or know how to get in touch
with Hugh?

The machine I purchased should be here next week.  I've started a web page
at
	http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/the_digital_group/

Since I'm not getting any manuals, schematics, or software with the machine,
any contributions for the web site will be welcomed.

Cheers,
Eric


From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Thu Dec 10 17:28:46 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <19981210232200.27024.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <13410757065.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>


What's a Digital Group machine?
-------


From jimw at agora.rdrop.com  Thu Dec 10 17:31:56 1998
From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <19981210232200.27024.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On 10 Dec 1998, Eric Smith wrote:

> In the Reader to Reader column of issue 81 of The Computer Journal
> 
> 	http://www2.psyber.com/~tcj/rtr81.html
> 
> Rex Widmer mentions finding a photo of a The Digital Group computer in a
> photo on the VCF web pages.  I can't seem to find it; does anyone have a
> URL for it, or a copy of the image?

Well... don't know about the pic on the 'official' VCF page, btu I've got
a shot of a 'Digital Group' system that was at VCF I on my VCF pictures
pages.

The direct link to the page is:
http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/jcgm-vcf.html

-jim
---
jimw@agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174



From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au  Thu Dec 10 17:32:01 1998
From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Type list (was: single instance machines)
In-Reply-To: <199812101258.MAA04336@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
References: <000601be23bb$436372c0$3ef438cb@a.davie>
 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981211103115.009d4740@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>

At 01:58 PM 10-12-98 +0001, Hans Franke wrote:
>> I guess prototype 2650 S100 machines / cards qualify?  There must be a lot
>> of homebrew "single instance" machines lying around.  Here's one I'm
>> particularly fond of...
>> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html
>> This machine ran CP/M on a 2650 using a software 8080 emulator written in
>> 2650.  Slowly!
>
>Just tell me this is a joke ... not only a 2650 _somwhere_, but
>rather a real S100 system 

I seem to recall that there were commercially available 2650 S100 cards....

 Huw Davies                      | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au
 Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550  Fax: +61 3 9479 1999
 La Trobe University             | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
 Melbourne Australia 3083        | air, the sky would be painted green"


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 16:56:36 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines, Tek 8000
Message-ID: <9b9533e4.367051a4@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/9/98 3:24:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:

> 
>  OK, anyone else here got a Tektronix 8000 microprocessor development system
> (either the 11/03 floppy-based one or the 11/23 hard-disk based one)?
>  
I have one of each that are soon to be scrap unless someone is interested.
Then yours will be the only one left. 

I can pack for shipping but they are very heavy.

Paxton
Portland, OR
USA


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 17:34:31 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <13410757065.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:

> What's a Digital Group machine?

Calm down; nothing to do with DEC :-)

-- Doug



From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Thu Dec 10 17:37:32 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <19981210232200.27024.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210153626.009b43a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

I believe there was a picture of it, Hans could could take a picture of it
at this point, he stole^h^h^h^h^hbought it from me :-) 

--Chuck

At 11:22 PM 12/10/98 +0000, you wrote:
>In the Reader to Reader column of issue 81 of The Computer Journal
>
>	http://www2.psyber.com/~tcj/rtr81.html
>
>Rex Widmer mentions finding a photo of a The Digital Group computer in a
>photo on the VCF web pages.  I can't seem to find it; does anyone have a
>URL for it, or a copy of the image?





From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com  Thu Dec 10 17:45:46 1998
From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <13410760161.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>

[nothing to do with DEC]

Damn.
-------


From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 16:35:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 10, 98 04:17:12 pm
Message-ID: 

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From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Thu Dec 10 17:56:35 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812102135.QAA00305@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de wrote:
> Don't forget: the V(I)C-20 was a bit faster and a way better
> design then the C64.
> 

I learned many things about the C64 recently.
First, that it was a underpowered, low quality computer that was more
expensive than an Apple ][ and had less features. I disagree because I
have never liked the Apple ][ more than the C64. 
Second, I learn that the VIC-20, a predecessor to the C-64, was better
than it. How is this? Last I heard, it is the VIC that was underpowered
because it only had 8k ram or something like. Please explain; how was it
better?


> --
> Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
> HRK
> 

----------------------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor



From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Dec 10 18:25:47 1998
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981210192547.00923700@mail.30below.com>

Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly:

>> They also had an Epson CX-20 handset coupler for $5 new in the box (plastic
>> wrap still on the device). Anybody want it for the cost plus shipping? Let
>> me know ASAP!
>
>IIRC, that's the modem for the HX20. It's a standard RS232 interface, of 
>course, but if someone here has an HX20 and wants the 'right' modem, then 
>this could be worth going for.

I just saw an HX-20 today! I was at a customer's house... he cannot talk
any longer and is wheelchair bound (he was hurt in a motor vehicle
accident). He used the HX-20 to print small notes on the paper-tape printer
(it sounds like a single-line dot-matrix printhead impact printer) and also
has a "Speech-Pak" that looks like it was made just for the Epson and uses
that to "talk" on.

Curiously enough, the text-to-speech capabilities of this machine sound
awfully close to the speech-sound pack I have for my CoCo's... methinks
it's based on the same chipset, as they're roughly the same era.

Another good use that shows "obsolete" doesn't exist if the application
*works*. :-)

Roger "Merch" Merchberger


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Thu Dec 10 18:38:03 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981210192547.00923700@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote:

> Another good use that shows "obsolete" doesn't exist if the application
> *works*. :-)
> 
> Roger "Merch" Merchberger
> 

In a windowy world there are still plenty of applications that do great
work with an 80X24 character (or much less) screen.

George Rachor



From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 18:14:23 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
Message-ID: <86b4636.367063df@aol.com>

In a message dated 12/10/98 2:42:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, donm@cts.com
writes:

> > 
>  > Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead 
> of
>  > the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results? 
>  
Regular paper works fine except the letters are a little fuzzy. The ink bleeds
a little. Try some of the new inkjet papers. They have a harder surface.
Paxton


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 18:49:08 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210103354.009b79a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote:

> TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local

FYI, the phrase "touch tones" is not trademarked by anyone anymore.  I
don't know that it ever was, but the misconception is that it at least
still is.  It's not.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 18:52:04 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: IBM 5360 in North Carolina
Message-ID: 


I know where there's an IBM 5360 with all the manuals and system disks
which is probably free for the asking in Grifton, NC (about 85 miles east
of Raleigh).  If anyone out this way wants it, e-mail me.  I'll give you
all the details.  Its in an abandoned manufacturing plant now owned by a
bank from bankruptcy.  Still in fine shape as far as I can tell.  You'll
probably need a big truck with a lift or 10 guys to haul it.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 18:57:58 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981209122700.30b750b2@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
> collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
> specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask?  What sorts of stories,
> info, etc. should I be trying to preserve? 

Which machines and what designers?

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 18:29:31 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981210191006.3027eb72@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 10, 98 07:10:06 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 18:34:28 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines, Tek 8000
In-Reply-To: <9b9533e4.367051a4@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Dec 10, 98 05:56:36 pm
Message-ID: 

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From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Dec 10 19:05:17 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <13410757065.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
References: <13410757065.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com>
Message-ID: <19981211010517.27544.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Daniel wrote:
> What's a Digital Group machine?

Well, if you'd bothered to check the URL I supplied, you'd know more about
it than I'm likely to write up in email on a mailing list.



From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Thu Dec 10 19:03:22 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981209115950.30bf9f86@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <001901be24a2$0cacb6a0$12f438cb@a.davie>

I have a sharp PC-5000, and lots of boxed software and manuals :)


> > I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance
> > represented on this list. 
> 
> Okay, here's a couple of recent acquisitions that might be unique on this
> list:
> 
> Sharp PC-5000



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 19:08:15 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981210192547.00923700@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 10, 98 07:25:47 pm
Message-ID: 

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From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 19:12:30 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte and using BibTex
In-Reply-To: <007301be23e0$83a92760$e0e5fea9@mainoffice>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:

> Does anyone have any experience using BiBTex on the PeeCee? I downloaded the
> Byte indices from 1975 to 1990, but I was not able to D/L any of the
> non-Unix tools from the site I was on.

By non-Unix, I assume you mean Windows.  I haven't tried it myself, but
this looks promising:
	http://software.webset.de/WinTeX/main.html

If you're looking for tools on Windows that can automatically create
indices and TOC's from the BibTex data, I don't know of any.  I plan to
write that software myself for Linux because I want to integrate with
other database info (ties to inventory, histories, etc.)

-- Doug



From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Thu Dec 10 19:10:10 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To:  from "George Rachor" at Dec 10, 98 04:38:03 pm
Message-ID: 

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From pechter at monmouth.com  Thu Dec 10 19:29:47 1998
From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981210163857.00fcdce0@pc> from John Foust at "Dec 10, 98 04:38:57 pm"
Message-ID: <199812110129.UAA01657@monmouth.com>

> At 10:12 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
> >> 
> >> In college, I worked with a DEC MiniMINC, a breadbox-sized 11/03
> >> machine, but I've never seen one since.  Love to get one.
> >
> >I've heard of the miniMINC. Wasn't it based on the PDT11/150? 
> 
> I didn't know it by that name.  I remember a white metal box,
> about as wide as its eight-inch drive, maybe 15 inches tall,
> running RT-11 and a BASIC at least.
> 
> - John
> 
> 
> 

MiniMinc was the PDT11/150 with the EIS/FIS Microm...
I had one for a while purchased under the DEC employee purchase plan.

Bill


From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 21:32:48 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210213248.47df0de0@intellistar.net>

Stil cleaning.  Found a molded plug with no cable so I guess it's a
shorting plug.  It's bigger than a DB connector but the same style. It has
51 pins in three rows. The name R Squared is molded into it.  Anyone know
what it's for? Anyone need it?

   Joe



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 21:35:37 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: FSOT:  Sony MO drive
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210213537.3e274196@intellistar.net>

I have a complete 5 1/4" Sony MO drive with 7 disks, cables, Bustek
bus-mastering 16 bit SCSI controller, Softeware and SW manual that need a
home.  If anyone wants it E-mail me directly.  I'll sell it outright or
trade for somehting that I can use.

   Joe



From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Dec 10 19:35:38 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:06 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To:  (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk)
References: 
Message-ID: <19981211013538.27696.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Tony Duell wrote:
> The HX20 printer is quite interesting. It's got 4 print solenoids/pins on 
> a little 'shuttle', spaced 5 characters apart in the same horizontal 
> line. A motor/scroll cam assembly wobbles this backwards and forwards 
> across the paper and moves the paper up one dot line for ever complete 
> movement of the shuttle. The HX20 electronics sends appropriately timed 
> pulses to the solenoids to put dots on the paper. It is an impact 
> printer, of course.

The Rockwell AIM-65 printer worked the same way.  IIRC, one of the manuals
contained the source code for the monitor ROM, which included the printer
routines.




From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Thu Dec 10 19:33:22 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <199812110127.UAA00306@localhost>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
> That's all I have on this PC - text only. And there are plenty of 
> programs I run - bash, perl, gcc, tex/latex, all the gnu utilities, tin, 
> elm, lynx, etc, etc, etc....
> 
> Doesn't seem to limit me too much...
> 
> -tony
> 

What if someone says, "I posted this neat pic of a weird mini on the
'net. No one can tell me what it is. I think this may be one-of-a-kind.
Here's the URL...." and you're just burning with curiousity. What do you
do?

----------------------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor



From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Thu Dec 10 19:38:12 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210153626.009b43a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote:

> I believe there was a picture of it, Hans could could take a picture of it
> at this point, he stole^h^h^h^h^hbought it from me :-) 

I have a picture of it in my VCF 2.0 pictures but I haven't had a chance
to scan those yet and put them up at the VCF page.

Also, your old freidn has been sitting in my spare upstairs bedroom since
VCF.  Hans went overboard at VCF and didn't realize he'd acquired enough
stuff to warrant the cost opf a plane ticket back to Germany.

If Hans doesn't get this stuff out of here soon its there's going to be
quite an eBay sale :)

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 19:38:32 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981210213248.47df0de0@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

> Stil cleaning.  Found a molded plug with no cable so I guess it's a
> shorting plug.  It's bigger than a DB connector but the same style. It has
> 51 pins in three rows. The name R Squared is molded into it.  Anyone know
> what it's for? Anyone need it?

Sounds like a SCSI terminator for a Sun.

-- Doug



From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Thu Dec 10 19:36:27 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <199812110133.UAA00328@localhost>
Message-ID: 

> > The HX20 printer is quite interesting. It's got 4 print solenoids/pins on 
> > a little 'shuttle', spaced 5 characters apart in the same horizontal 
> > line. A motor/scroll cam assembly wobbles this backwards and forwards 
> > across the paper and moves the paper up one dot line for ever complete 
> > movement of the shuttle. The HX20 electronics sends appropriately timed 
> > pulses to the solenoids to put dots on the paper. It is an impact 
> > printer, of course.

May I ask, why do this when it's probably easier to use 9 vertically
aligned pins like the rest of the civilized dot matrix world? (Except for
engineering chauvinism, that is)

----------------------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor



From red at bears.org  Thu Dec 10 19:41:31 1998
From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros))
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981210213248.47df0de0@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:

> Stil cleaning.  Found a molded plug with no cable so I guess it's a
> shorting plug.  It's bigger than a DB connector but the same style. It has
> 51 pins in three rows. The name R Squared is molded into it.  Anyone know
> what it's for? Anyone need it?

Sounds like an old-style Sun or DEC SCSI terminator. If you count again,
you should see it has 50 pins.

-- 
ok
r.					r e d  @  b e a r s . o r g
					===========================
					[ urs longa | vita brevis ]



From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Thu Dec 10 19:42:17 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
Message-ID: <981210204217.2f000492@trailing-edge.com>

>Stil cleaning.  Found a molded plug with no cable so I guess it's a
>shorting plug.  It's bigger than a DB connector but the same style. It has
>51 pins in three rows. The name R Squared is molded into it.  Anyone know
>what it's for? Anyone need it?

You sure it has 51 pins?  I'll bet you that it has 50, and that it's
actually a SCSI terminator.  50-pin D-subs were common for SCSI connections
on Sun equipment until quite recently.

Tim.


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Dec 10 19:48:28 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

>Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead of
>the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results?

If it's the printer I'm thinking of, it's the same one that is part of the
"HP IPC" and is basically the same as the Kodak Diconix.  You can get
plain-paper ink cartridges, fairly inexpensivelly.  The old ones for the
Diconix were only good for about 100 sheets, not sure about the plain-paper
ones.  Warning, don't store the ink cartridge in the printer, you're asking
for trouble.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Dec 10 19:54:18 1998
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Saving vs. Shipping (was: Re: "Single instance" machines, Tek
  8000
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9b9533e4.367051a4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981210205418.00943e30@mail.30below.com>

Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly:
>> 
>> In a message dated 12/9/98 3:24:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:
>> 
>> > 
>> >  OK, anyone else here got a Tektronix 8000 microprocessor development
system
>> > (either the 11/03 floppy-based one or the 11/23 hard-disk based one)?
>> >  
>> I have one of each that are soon to be scrap unless someone is interested.
>
>Please, somebody save these machines.... I mean, if they were DEC 
>PDP11's, then everybody would be after them. But not Tektronix stuff for 
>some reason.

I like Tex stuff (that's what my o'scope is nicknamed...) as I worked with
some early color printers from Tektronix when I worked for Electronic Data
Systems (General Motors) back in '89 / '90.

>I don't know why most people don't go after development systems. They're 
>very interesting machines, almost always very well built, and they're 
>still useful for working on classic machines. The In-circuit emulator 
>cards for these machines could be just what you need to fix that home 
>micro...

I'd *love* to own it... but I have no clue how'd I'd get it shipped from
Oregon to Northern Michigan without emptying my pocketbook...

That, and a mostly full basement now; tho that's never stopped me before...
;-)

>> I can pack for shipping but they are very heavy.
>
>Having had to carry my pair across a building, there's no way I'd 
>consider having one shipped from the States...

or across the states... that's my dilemma... :-(

Roger "Merch" Merchberger


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 19:48:11 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > That's all I have on this PC - text only. And there are plenty of 
> 
> What if someone says, "I posted this neat pic of a weird mini on the
> 'net. No one can tell me what it is. I think this may be one-of-a-kind.
> Here's the URL...." and you're just burning with curiousity. What do you
> do?

He asks you to please convert the pics to ASCII art using GIFSCI (TM):
	ftp://ftp.wwa.com/pub/Scarecrow/Gifscii/

-- Doug



From rigdonj at intellistar.net  Thu Dec 10 21:51:50 1998
From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.1.16.19981210213248.47df0de0@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981210215150.2f87f21e@intellistar.net>

At 08:41 PM 12/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> Stil cleaning.  Found a molded plug with no cable so I guess it's a
>> shorting plug.  It's bigger than a DB connector but the same style. It has
>> 51 pins in three rows. The name R Squared is molded into it.  Anyone know
>> what it's for? Anyone need it?
>
>Sounds like an old-style Sun or DEC SCSI terminator. If you count again,
>you should see it has 50 pins.
>

  You're right it has 50 pins. My eyes aren't what they used to be :-/

  Joe



From dogas at leading.net  Thu Dec 10 19:54:46 1998
From: dogas at leading.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Saving vs. Shipping (was: Re: "Single instance" machines, Tek 8000
Message-ID: <01be24a9$3ad58fa0$c4c962cf@devlaptop>

>or across the states... that's my dilemma... :-(

ok, so I'm considering a rescue... ;)

Can someone tell me about these machines (and how big they are, etc....)
Initial internet query's yield nothing

Thanks
- Mike: dogas@leading.net




From zmerch at 30below.com  Thu Dec 10 20:06:58 1998
From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812110133.UAA00328@localhost>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981210210658.00964790@mail.30below.com>

Once upon a midnight dreary, Max Eskin had spoken clearly:
>> > The HX20 printer is quite interesting. It's got 4 print solenoids/pins
on 
>> > a little 'shuttle', spaced 5 characters apart in the same horizontal 
>> > line. A motor/scroll cam assembly wobbles this backwards and forwards 
>> > across the paper and moves the paper up one dot line for ever complete 
>> > movement of the shuttle. The HX20 electronics sends appropriately timed 
>> > pulses to the solenoids to put dots on the paper. It is an impact 
>> > printer, of course.
>
>May I ask, why do this when it's probably easier to use 9 vertically
>aligned pins like the rest of the civilized dot matrix world? (Except for
>engineering chauvinism, that is)

Portability (size), power requirements, reliability (remember... this was
one of the first; if not the first commercial laptop ever).

The Epson HX-20 is a very small (never held one, but they look to weigh 5-6
pounds)... complete with mini-printer (prolly 20 chrs wide), computer with
a full-sized keyboard, mini-cassette for data/proggie storage, what looked
to be a 20 char by 4 line LCD and in the case I mentioned earlier, a
speech-pak for voice synthesis.

It's quite doubtful Epson could shoehorn an FX-80 printhead & carriage
reliably in that... and if they could, I doubt you could power it for long.

And yes, this all ran on batteries for prolly a very long time (16-20 hours
on 4 AA batteries in the case of the Tandy 200-100 respectively), depending
on use of the peripherals, and I think it used industry standard batteries
as well.

HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 20:34:03 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: VIC's in Germany (was: Re: "Single instance" machines
References: <199812101444.OAA23798@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> <199812101839.SAA21535@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <3670849B.3F90579B@cnct.com>

Hans Franke wrote:
> 
> > > > > VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are
> > > > Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?
> > > Am I allowed to answer ?
> > Sure!
> 
> First, like Cameron already explaned, if VIC is pronounced
> as one word it gives the same sound as f*ck (*insert here the
> language specific vovel) - this is region dependant, but
> especialy true in the area where Commodore was located.
> Second, if spelled (Vau Ih Ceh) it sounds clumbsy, while
> VC (Vau Ceh) could be spoken fluent. And third, Commodore
> tried to catch up with the marketing idea of a VolksComputer.
> Like the Volkswagen :)
> 
> Also the C64 was marketed as VC 64 in the beginning :)

Yeah, well, VIC'em if they can't take a joke.  (Unless you'd
rather TI'em up).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Thu Dec 10 20:36:20 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
References: <199812110133.UAA00328@localhost> <3.0.1.32.19981210210658.00964790@mail.30below.com>
Message-ID: <36708522.80C78DDD@geocities.com>

Roger Merchberger wrote:

> Portability (size), power requirements, reliability (remember... this was
> one of the first; if not the first commercial laptop ever).
>

 This was a battery-powered printer? In that case, I sit slackjawed in
fascination at the ingenuity of this engineering. I want one!


--------------------------------------
Max Eskin | kurtkilgor@bigfoot.com





From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Dec 10 20:45:31 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812102135.QAA00305@localhost>
Message-ID: 

>I learned many things about the C64 recently.
>First, that it was a underpowered, low quality computer that was more
>expensive than an Apple ][ and had less features. I disagree because I
>have never liked the Apple ][ more than the C64.

More expensive?!?!  The C-64 with a C-1541 would have been about $600 when
introduced IIRC, at the same time a Apple ][ was about $1200-1500 I believe.

>Second, I learn that the VIC-20, a predecessor to the C-64, was better
>than it. How is this? Last I heard, it is the VIC that was underpowered
>because it only had 8k ram or something like. Please explain; how was it
>better?

The VIC had about 3.5k base, with 8k and 16k (I've heard of a 32k)
expansions.  Might have been faster, but even I'll admit the C-64 was
better since it came with 64k, better graphics and sprites.  A VIC-20 with
Datacasette was my only computer from 1981 or 1982-1986.  In mid-87 I got a
Kaypro 2000 laptop, what a change!

				Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 18:51:11 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: DC 300XL Tapes
Message-ID: <303fb39f.36706c7f@aol.com>

I have a case, maybe more, of new DC300XLs for sale. $3 singles, 2 for $5, $10
for a box of 5, plus shipping.

I also have used DC600s for $1 each

The Tektronix 31 takes a custom small tape. I may have a few around. I used
too but I haven't seen any lately. I will continue to look.

Please reply to me directly at whoagiii@aol.com


From cube at msn.fullfeed.com  Wed Dec  9 20:21:02 1998
From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981209130102.00aa0100@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

I have a working 1200 (at least it was the last time I powered it on), and
one for parts.

Jay

At 01:08 PM 12/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
> ... snip...
>Also, I haven't heard of anyone in our own group on the list mentioning
>they have a DG Nova 1200.
>
>  ... snip...
>Regards,  Chris
>-- --
>Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
>Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
>Member of Antique Wireless Association
>        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
> 


From cfandt at netsync.net  Thu Dec 10 21:06:55 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981210210642.00ace830@206.231.8.2>

At 17:48 12/10/98 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>Anybody have experience with using normal xerographic copy paper instead of
>>the HP-specified Thinkjet paper? If so, how are the results?
>
>If it's the printer I'm thinking of, it's the same one that is part of the
>"HP IPC" and is basically the same as the Kodak Diconix.  You can get
>plain-paper ink cartridges, fairly inexpensivelly.  The old ones for the
>Diconix were only good for about 100 sheets, not sure about the plain-paper
>ones.  Warning, don't store the ink cartridge in the printer, you're asking
>for trouble.

Thanks everybody who answered this question. I'll look for a plain paper
cartridge from Office Max or such and try out the printer sometime.

The original cartridge shipped with the unit is still sealed in its
container. The "Use By:" date is Dec 1986. I don't think I'll waste my time
opening it since there's a possibility it is no good. I'll just keep it
unopened with the printer and packaging as part of its original shipment
and use new ones.

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 19:05:24 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: NorthStar drives in cabinet
Message-ID: <40a9f03b.36706fd4@aol.com>

Bob;

I found another lost SOL in the warehouse the other day. It is still in a box
on the bottom of the pallet. It may be a while before I can actually get at
it.

If interested in it please contact me at whoagiii@aol.com

Paxton


From yowza at yowza.com  Thu Dec 10 21:15:26 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Daisy
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210210642.00ace830@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

My life is complete.  I just heard a recording of a 1961 IBM 7094 sing "A
Bicycle Built for Two":
	http://www.vortex.com/av.html#DAISY

-- Doug



From eric at brouhaha.com  Thu Dec 10 21:16:21 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  (healyzh@aracnet.com)
References: <199812102135.QAA00305@localhost> 
Message-ID: <19981211031621.28330.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Zane wrote:
> More expensive?!?!  The C-64 with a C-1541 would have been about $600 when
> introduced IIRC, at the same time a Apple ][ was about $1200-1500 I believe.

No, at intro the C-64 listed for US $599.  I don't recall the price of the
1541, but I'm pretty sure it was at least $250.

But the original comment was that the complete C64 system cost more than
a complete A][ system in Germany; US prices are irrelevant.


From cube at msn.fullfeed.com  Thu Dec 10 21:14:12 1998
From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <199812110326.VAA01491@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com>

Boy, does that bring back memories.  When I was in middle school, a fellow
from 3M (I think his name was Doug Kinney) visited our school with a couple
of computers.  One was quite large - in a rack, and used decimal
arithmatic.  The other was a binary computer, and was much smaller.  It was
named "Little Binary Joe".

He left behind a schematic for some JK flip flops built out of Motorola
2N554 power transistors, and it used #49 light bulbs (not the more common
#47 bulbs).  A friend of mine convinced me that we should try and build it.
 We scrounged for parts, wrote letters, etc.  Got a free dial from the
telephone company, free resistors from Hamilton Hall in Milwaukee, but
Motorola would not come thru with the transistors.  We eventually had to
save up and order them.  We got about 4 flip flops built.

That got me started in electronics, from which I jumped into Computer Science.

Jay

At 02:55 AM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
>
>> And the 1/3 part is in the form of the "electronic" computer I'm building
>> from the January 1960 issue of Electronics Illustrated...(flip-flops,
>> light-bulbs, and a rotary phone dial - woo-hoo!) I'm about 1/3
>> completed...
>
>One of my favorite early personal computers!  I regret that the designer
>didn't give it a name, though.  Specs:
>
>Name: "Electronic Computer"
>Intro: Jan 1960
>Price: approx $35
>Technology: discrete transistors
>Memory: 6 bits
>Input: rotary telephone dial
>Clock speed: as fast as you can dial
>Output: 12 incandescent lights
>Programming language: patch cords
>
>The author describes how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide on this
>box, but it's really more of a calculator than a computer since it doesn't
>have control logic or a clock.
>
>I hope to do a web page some day that describes this machine and several
>other home computers from the 1950's and 1960's.
>
>-- Doug
> 


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Dec 10 21:31:23 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <19981211031621.28330.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References:  (healyzh@aracnet.com)
 <199812102135.QAA00305@localhost> 
Message-ID: 

>Zane wrote:
>> More expensive?!?!  The C-64 with a C-1541 would have been about $600 when
>> introduced IIRC, at the same time a Apple ][ was about $1200-1500 I believe.
>
>No, at intro the C-64 listed for US $599.  I don't recall the price of the
>1541, but I'm pretty sure it was at least $250.

I was thinking both were about $300 each.  I'm pretty sure that's what the
drive was as I seem to recall it cost as much as my VIC-20 did, which when
I got it was $300.

>But the original comment was that the complete C64 system cost more than
>a complete A][ system in Germany; US prices are irrelevant.

Ah, I thought Max was refering to US systems.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From healyzh at aracnet.com  Thu Dec 10 21:35:27 1998
From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210210642.00ace830@206.231.8.2>
References: 
 <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: 

>Thanks everybody who answered this question. I'll look for a plain paper
>cartridge from Office Max or such and try out the printer sometime.

The MicroWarehouse catalogue has "Plain Paper" cartridges for $11.  It's
Item No. 6339 and HP Ref. 51604A.

>The original cartridge shipped with the unit is still sealed in its
>container. The "Use By:" date is Dec 1986. I don't think I'll waste my time
>opening it since there's a possibility it is no good. I'll just keep it
>unopened with the printer and packaging as part of its original shipment
>and use new ones.

If it's still sealed, I can just about guarentee it's usable.  I've used
them several years after they were opened without any problem.  The problem
would probably be finding the special paper.

			Zane
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|                   and Zane's Computer Museum.                 |
|               http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/             |


From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au  Thu Dec 10 21:47:52 1998
From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Speech synthesiser chip (was Re: HX20)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981211144751.009c7430@cts.canberra.edu.au>

At 01:08 11/12/98 +0000, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:

>> Curiously enough, the text-to-speech capabilities of this machine sound
>> awfully close to the speech-sound pack I have for my CoCo's... methinks
>> it's based on the same chipset, as they're roughly the same era.
>
>Could well be. There were a pair of chips from GI - one was the SPO256 
>which was a speech synthesiser chip, and the other was the CTS256 which 
>was a PIC7000 (TMS7000-a-like), I think, programmed with the 
>text-to-speech algorithm. The Speech-sound pack for the Coco used a 
>microcontroller (I forget which) with much the same algorithm, but also 
>with commands to control an AY3-891x sound chip.

These chips (the SPO256-AL2 and the CTS256A-AL2) seem really hard to find
these days, but I've found a supplier of them if anyone is interested.  A
U.S. company called SMC Electronics, based in Brockton, MA, has the
SPO256-AL2 for $US5.00 and the CTS256A-AL2 for $US7.50 (both include
specification and application sheets).

SMC Electronics web page is http://personal.tmlp.com/SMCONE/

The chips are listed on http://personal.tmlp.com/SMCONE/IC.HTM

Regards,

|         Scott McLauchlan          |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au |
|       Network Services Team       |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)|
|      Client Services Division     |Post  : University of Canberra,   |
| University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA |        ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA.     |


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 21:58:36 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
References: 
Message-ID: <3670986C.DC464829@cnct.com>

Tony Duell wrote:

> >
> > Another good use that shows "obsolete" doesn't exist if the application
> > *works*. :-)
> 
> Of course not. Old tools carry on doing the job they've always done. No
> reason to ever upgrade unless you need new functionality.

Almost especially in medical technology like in the example given.
My wife (the nurse) specialised in home care of {para|quadra}plegics
and once a patient with limited mobility has learned to use a tool
adequately, it works.  Efforts by the "well-meaning" to get that
patient to use something "better" (the "well-meaning" being either
students with research projects or tax-paid "social" workers) have
the drawback of trying to replace skills that were a bitch to
develop in the first place with a new set that would take years --
as many years as learning the skills that work.  Of course, the kids
with fresh education and materials have priority over those who've
actually helped people.  Most of those kids should be kneecapped and
encouraged to swim the Pacific.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 22:10:27 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
References: 
Message-ID: <36709B33.2E77BE6F@cnct.com>

Max Eskin wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > That's all I have on this PC - text only. And there are plenty of
> > programs I run - bash, perl, gcc, tex/latex, all the gnu utilities, tin,
> > elm, lynx, etc, etc, etc....
> >
> > Doesn't seem to limit me too much...
> >
> > -tony
> >
> 
> What if someone says, "I posted this neat pic of a weird mini on the
> 'net. No one can tell me what it is. I think this may be one-of-a-kind.
> Here's the URL...." and you're just burning with curiousity. What do you
> do?

Lynx browses the web just fine, and will write files to disk.  After
that many systems can view graphic files off-line.  If I recall the
specs for Tony's Perq, he can view it quite adequately.  (Oh, yeah,
he has to move the graphic file from his text PC to his Perq -- I'll
take it as a given that he can manage that -- I could if I had three
minutes introduction and I have reason to believe Tony is smarter
than I am).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Dec 10 22:13:47 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: <199812110413.AA26821@world.std.com>


>MiniMinc was the PDT11/150 with the EIS/FIS Microm...
>I had one for a while purchased under the DEC employee purchase plan.

Thanks, I didn't know that is what constituted a MiniMINC.  Since I
upgraded all the PDT-150s I have at home to EIS/FIS, then I guess
they all qualify as MiniMINCs now, eh?

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+



From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 22:32:20 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
References: 
Message-ID: <3670A054.9C52E971@cnct.com>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Chuck McManis wrote:
> 
> > TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local
> 
> FYI, the phrase "touch tones" is not trademarked by anyone anymore.  I
> don't know that it ever was, but the misconception is that it at least
> still is.  It's not.

Never was that I know of.  And if it had been, we'd have heard
something about a lawsuit.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From mbg at world.std.com  Thu Dec 10 22:27:49 1998
From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Rummaging through my document collection recently...
Message-ID: <199812110427.AA06456@world.std.com>


... I came across the MACLisp manaul I used in a 'higher level languages'
course at WPI back in the 70s... it is the 'Moon' manual, for those
who might remember such things... Rev.0 !

I wonder how many of those have survived...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 22:38:17 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Indexing Byte and using BibTex
References: 
Message-ID: <3670A1B9.1904A6E8@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have any experience using BiBTex on the PeeCee? I downloaded the
> > Byte indices from 1975 to 1990, but I was not able to D/L any of the
> > non-Unix tools from the site I was on.
> 
> By non-Unix, I assume you mean Windows.  I haven't tried it myself, but
> this looks promising:
>         http://software.webset.de/WinTeX/main.html
> 
> If you're looking for tools on Windows that can automatically create
> indices and TOC's from the BibTex data, I don't know of any.  I plan to
> write that software myself for Linux because I want to integrate with
> other database info (ties to inventory, histories, etc.)

Why write it afresh?  Last I heard, all of the old Unix BibTex tools
worked just fine with Linux.  (Yes, they can use "enhancement" to
make them "user-friendly").
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From Watzman at ibm.net  Thu Dec 10 21:54:17 1998
From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Oh ! You Beautiful Doll !
Message-ID: <01BE2495.AA87B4E0@slip-32-100-187-220.oh.us.ibm.net>

OK, talking about Actimates Barney opens the door to this one, which is otherwise more than a bit off topic:

Does anyone know how flexible the vocabulary is for Talk With Me Barbie ?

[Now I'm never going to be able to show my face in this group again].

I could do some amusing and humorous [NOT Perverted !!!] things with it at work if I could create my own phrases for the doll to say [ok, so I could do some perverted things also, but that's NOT what I had in mind !].

Apparently the toy was not successful and they are being liquidated for as little as $10-$15.

Barry Watzman


----------
From:  Hans Franke [SMTP:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de]
Sent:  Thursday, December 10, 1998 5:05 PM
To:  Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject:  Re: OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or  radio)

Date sent:      	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:54:05 -0800
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@u.washington.edu
From:           	Chuck McManis 
To:             	"Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" 
Subject:        	OT: Re: The Purple One (was Modem tones over television or
 	radio)

> Lots of people in the states sell them, its called the "Actimates" Barney.
> As I understood it the toy "saw" signals in the form of IR coded pulses in
> the video and responded appropriately. There are a couple of groups on the
> net who have hacked the toy to give the dinosaur an extended, if somewhat
> less refined, vocabulary.

Any URL ? I did a quick search, but only comercial sites (like MS:
http://microsoft.com./products/hardware/actimates/barney/default.htm )
showed up - and I got a strange feeling reading about what this
toy is intended to do:


See what your child can learn with Actimates Barney!

Cooperation
Good Citizenship
Following Directions
...


Brrrrrrr.... Brave new world.

Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK




From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 22:49:13 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Daisy
References: 
Message-ID: <3670A449.2771CD5B@cnct.com>

Doug Yowza wrote:
> 
> My life is complete.  I just heard a recording of a 1961 IBM 7094 sing "A
> Bicycle Built for Two":
>         http://www.vortex.com/av.html#DAISY

Arthur C. Clarke heard (probably a fresher copy of) that recording
and brought it to the attention of Stanley Kubrick while they were
writing the 2001 screenplay together.
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 22:39:53 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Saving vs. Shipping (was: Re: "Single instance" machines, Tek 8000
Message-ID: 

The Tek 8000s are about 20"X12"X24". They weigh a good 75 or 80 pounds, 90 to
100 pounds shipping weight. My Zip code is 97214. Check UPS' Web Page
Calculator for shipping costs.

This is an approximate weight. The machines are in my whse and I haven't been
down there yet today.
Paxton


From gram at cnct.com  Thu Dec 10 23:09:26 1998
From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Oh ! You Beautiful Doll !
References: <01BE2495.AA87B4E0@slip-32-100-187-220.oh.us.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <3670A906.5ED008E4@cnct.com>

Barry A. Watzman wrote:

> I could do some amusing and humorous [NOT Perverted !!!] things with it at work if I could create my own phrases for the doll to say [ok, so I could do some perverted things also, but that's NOT what I had in mind !].
> 
> Apparently the toy was not successful and they are being liquidated for as little as $10-$15.

I'll have to check this out and maybe get a couple of the things.  At
least one to dissect, of course.  Since I've always felt that if the
folks at Mattel _really_ want to make money on the franchise, there
has to be a "42nd Street Barbie" and a "Christopher Street Ken".  And
I thought of that before I moved from several miles away from Mattel
HQ near Los Angeles to several miles from Manhattan.  (There are
similar neighborhoods around LA, but they don't have the international
fame).
-- 
Ward Griffiths  

WARNING:  The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.


From Innfogra at aol.com  Thu Dec 10 22:59:05 1998
From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Other TEK weight availiable in Portland, Oregon
Message-ID: 

In a message dated 12/10/98 5:49:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
zmerch@30below.com writes:

> 
>  I like Tex stuff (that's what my o'scope is nicknamed...) as I worked with
>  some early color printers from Tektronix when I worked for Electronic Data
>  Systems (General Motors) back in '89 / '90.
>  
Speaking of weight are you interested in a 4692 or 4693. I had two 4691s but
they got parted out, sorry.

I posted on another thread of the dimensions and weight on the Tek 8000s.

Much lighter are a set of emulator plugs for the 7D01 Logic analyzer. I have a
8080 and a 6800 plug in, a couple others and documentation that I am
interested in selling. I also have a few Tek calibration instruments left.

I also have a couple of 4315s, 4404 & 4405 systems. I also have a rare 4113,
4125s, 4115s, some upgrades to 4128 & 4129. 

For Tek Terminals I have 4105s, a 4107, 4109s, 4111s, 4207. 4208s and a 4211.

I also have mice, pads and pucks.

And I am looking for a manual on a 4096 plotter but have not found one yet.

If interested please e-mail me directly at whoagiii@aol.com.
Paxton


From spc at armigeron.com  Fri Dec 11 23:22:50 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <19981210231306.26966.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 10, 98 11:13:06 pm
Message-ID: <199812120522.AAA02731@armigeron.com>

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From nerdware at laidbak.com  Thu Dec 10 23:47:07 1998
From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210154825.00abf550@206.231.8.2>
Message-ID: <199812110544.XAA28369@garcon.laidbak.com>

Date sent:      	Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:17:12 -0500
Send reply to:  	classiccmp@u.washington.edu
From:           	Christian Fandt 
To:             	"Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" 
Subject:        	Just bought this . . .



 
> They also had an Epson CX-20 handset coupler for $5 new in the box (plastic
> wrap still on the device). Anybody want it for the cost plus shipping? Let
> me know ASAP!
> 
> Regards,  Chris
> Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
> Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
> Member of Antique Wireless Association
>         URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

Yes, I'm interested if it's still there. Let me know.

Thanks.



Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware@laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware


From pctech at davidbowie.com  Fri Dec 11 01:33:52 1998
From: pctech at davidbowie.com (Brian Giacoletti)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Laser 128
Message-ID: <000e01be24d8$9d660f80$c4b6adce@amdk6-2>

I am in need of a power cord for a Laser 128 from 1985.If anyone can help please let me know.
-------------- next part --------------
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From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Dec 11 01:56:16 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
In-Reply-To: <199812120522.AAA02731@armigeron.com> (spc@armigeron.com)
References: <199812120522.AAA02731@armigeron.com>
Message-ID: <19981211075616.29424.qmail@brouhaha.com>

"Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" 
>   Oh, pullDOWN.  Okay.  Sorry.  I'm a software guy, and it pains me to think
> that just about every other computer ever made could share interrupts but
> the PC.  Makes writing of software just that more complicated.

Yes, but I'm not sure you grasp my point that the resistors are not enough
to solve the problem.  They should have made the interrupts level-sensitive;
that is fundamentally what is required to make sharing them practical.

I can't imagine any sensible reason for making them default to edge-sensitive;
the 8259 is very flexible and can be configured either way.  I can only
surmise that they had no clue and decided by flipping coins or throwing
darts.

Cheers,
Eric


From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Dec 11 01:58:03 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <3670A054.9C52E971@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths
	III on Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:32:20 -0500)
References:  <3670A054.9C52E971@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <19981211075803.29433.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Chuck wrote:
> TouchTones(tm) are used all the time in satellite feeds to cue local

Sam wrote:
> FYI, the phrase "touch tones" is not trademarked by anyone anymore.  I
> don't know that it ever was, but the misconception is that it at least
> still is.  It's not.

Ward wrote:
> Never was that I know of.  And if it had been, we'd have heard
> something about a lawsuit.

In the United States, Touchtone was a registered trademark of AT&T.  I'm
not sure when they gave it up; it may have been at the time of the
divestiture.  A query of the trademark database reveals seven current
registered trademarks incorporating the word touchtone:

	Touchtone Invest
	Fidelity Touchtone Xpress
	Touchtone Xpress
	Touchtone Jobsline
	Touchtone Rentsline
	Touchtone Transportation
	Touchtone Trader

The last of these was the earliest filed, on March 26, 1992, so I think
it's a safe bet that AT&T gave up the trademark before that date.

In some countries Touchtone is still a trademark of the applicable telephone
company or agency.  For example, in the UK it is a registered trademark of 
British Telecommunications PLC:
	
	http://www.labs.bt.com/projects/voice/talk/glossary.htm

Eric




From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:36:42 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981210233841.75a7b606@ricochet.net>

At 11:22 PM 12/10/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Since I'm not getting any manuals, schematics, or software with the machine,
>any contributions for the web site will be welcomed.

A bit of trivia...  I was in Denver on holiday a while back, and went to
the Colorado History Museum (Denver has great museums!)  There, amidst a
lot of other Colorado stuff, was a Digital Group computer.  Very Cool, but
I'm sure there are still drool stains in the carpet around it.  8^)


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:36:59 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981211000130.75a79f84@ricochet.net>

At 08:36 PM 12/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>a little 'shuttle', spaced 5 characters apart in the same horizontal 
>>line. A motor/scroll cam assembly wobbles this backwards and forwards 
>>across the paper and moves the paper up one dot line for ever complete 
>
>May I ask, why do this when it's probably easier to use 9 vertically
>aligned pins like the rest of the civilized dot matrix world? (Except for

Compare:

o    o    o    o    o

to 
 
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
o
o

Any difference jump out at you?  Yep, the latter uses a lot more vertical
space.  In a laptop, that translates into thickness.  If you want a skinny
laptop, all your parts have to be thin.

As to five heads versus one, you can print five characters at once.  Faster
printing.  


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:37:03 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981211001044.75a7ac52@ricochet.net>

At 02:36 AM 12/11/98 +0000, you wrote:
> This was a battery-powered printer? In that case, I sit slackjawed in
>fascination at the ingenuity of this engineering. I want one!

There are, of course, lots of battery-powered printers.  I used a Canon
BJ-20e (or BJ-10e?) for years to print invoices at client sites.  Had a
switch to turn on/off battery charging when using AC so as not to build a
memory in the battery.

Radio Shack had one that was about the size of half a ream of paper, or one
of those clipboards with storage underneat.  Slip some paper inside, hook
up a cable, print, and out comes a printed page.

Mannesman-Tally had one that ran on batteries, did 300dpi, 6ppm, LJ II
compatible printing for under $1K, at a time when LaserJets were about that
price.  

I believe HP's portable deskjet ran on batts too.

Then, of course, there were plenty of portables with built-in printers,
especially those from Panasonic, Canon, and Sharp.  And a lot of the
"pocket computers" (Casio, Sharp, TRS-80, Panasonic) had portable printers
they could attach to.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:37:07 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981211001435.75a7b4ac@ricochet.net>

At 07:25 PM 12/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I just saw an HX-20 today! I was at a customer's house... he cannot talk

If you've never seen an HX-20 before, go to
 (or /clascomp/index2.htm for the new
and improved CGI version!) and check it out.  No pics of the HC-20 yet, but
I'm working on it. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:37:12 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: 24x80 Standard? (was: Re: HX20)
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981211001622.75a7a06a@ricochet.net>

>In a windowy world there are still plenty of applications that do great
>work with an 80X24 character (or much less) screen.

I was asked this yesterday (sorta) -- Why the 80x24 standard of yore?  

I believe the 80 columns comes from the 80 column punched cards, but I
can't remember where the 24 comes from.

Thanks in advance...


--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From sinasohn at ricochet.net  Fri Dec 11 02:37:15 1998
From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: A nifty demo
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19981211002710.75a79e8a@ricochet.net>

Saw a demo of a neat piece of software yesterday.  Two people were about 35
miles apart.  One pulled up a document on his computer.  Gave access to it
to the other guy who had a mouse and cursor at his end which we could also
see on the screen.  He could point to things, as the two people talked.
Control could have been passed to him at any time.

After a bit, the guy on our end decided he wanted to be able to see the
other guy, so he opened a box in the upper left corner of the screen, sized
it, and voila, there was a video image of the other guy.  They were able to
talk and see each other, as they worked together on the same document.

Pretty darn cool, if you ask me. 



Oh, I kinda lied.  I actually only saw a videotape of the demo.  

The actual demo had taken place 30 years ago in 1968, and the star of the
demo was Doug Englebart.

Think about your first reaction to what sounds like whiteboarding software
that is starting to become commonplace.  Now consider that the demo was
filmed 30 years ago in *black and white*!  That's how far ahead Englebart
and his team really were (or, how far we *haven't* come when we should have!)

Go check out http://unrev.stanford.edu/ for yourself.



--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-

Uncle Roger                       "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger@sinasohn.com                           that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California                       http://www.sinasohn.com/



From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Dec 11 02:55:01 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981211000130.75a79f84@ricochet.net> (message from Uncle
	Roger on Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:36:59 -0600 (CST))
References: <3.0.16.19981211000130.75a79f84@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <19981211085501.29714.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Roger wrote, regarding the printer in the HX-20 and AIM-65:
> As to five heads versus one, you can print five characters at once.  Faster
> printing.  

Disregarding the time spent moving the paper, it is slower (5/8 the speed),
since you are only printing five dots at a time rather than eight.  But
speed wasn't the point.

When you include the time spend moving the paper, it is even slower.  For a
line of text you have to move the paper the same amount with either method.
But with the five separate single-pin heads, you have to move the paper
precisely eight times, which typically takes longer than a single
less-precise move of 8x the distance.

The real win was just that the mechanism was cheaper than the more common
eight-vertical-dot mechanisms.

Eric


From yowza at yowza.com  Fri Dec 11 03:20:05 1998
From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: A nifty demo
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981211002710.75a79e8a@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Uncle Roger wrote:

> The actual demo had taken place 30 years ago in 1968, and the star of the
> demo was Doug Englebart.


Engelbart.


> Think about your first reaction to what sounds like whiteboarding software
> that is starting to become commonplace.  Now consider that the demo was
> filmed 30 years ago in *black and white*!  That's how far ahead Englebart
> and his team really were (or, how far we *haven't* come when we should have!)

Blame Microsoft; I do.

BTW, the semi-enlightened folks at HP did try to pull off a little
Engelbart trick in 1993 that few people remember: the HP OmniShare.  It
was an "inexpensive" (~$2500) little computer with a LCD/pen-based
digitizer that had networking, fax/modem, and very interesting
collaborative software built-in.

In won a few awards, and then faded away about six months after
introduction.

The moral of the story is that it's relatively easy to give a good demo,
slightly harder to do a real implementation, and then very hard to get
market acceptance and penetration for new ideas.

(The real moral of the story is that I have a pair of OmniShares, and I
just felt like gloating :-)

-- Doug



From kevan at heydon.org  Fri Dec 11 04:47:27 1998
From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
>
> I am not sure what my 2 Systems are. Both are 2-rack units (floppy drives 
> in one 3U subrack, cards in another. One has the 6502 CPU card, the other 

Sounds similar to my System 5, although the only reason I know mine is 
one of these is because that is what I was told by the Acorn employee
whose basement it was quite literaly saved from. (The next day the house
was knocked down because it was unsafe!)

They will be at least System 3's because they are the first of the line to
come with floppies.

> had the (somewhat rare) 6809 CPU.

I have a sales brochure here for the Acorn System 1,2 & 3. Inside it there
is an 'Advance Information' flyer describing the 6809 card. I quote: 

"This Acorn eurocard is a plug in replacement for the 6502 CPU card for
those who wish to upgrade their system to make use of the advanced
facilities of Motorola's 8-bit glamour chip the 6809"

I do like the idea of a glamour chip:-)

> That reminds me of another machine tht needs to tbe 'jump started' from 
> time to time. Does anyone else here have any Whitechapel stuff? I've got 
> a working MG1 and most of a Hitech 10 (I need a case + a few chips + 
> schematics for the latter).

I have an MG1 but I have never had chance to play with it yet. I guess I
will need to 'jump start' it so details of how to do this would be most
appreciated.

--
Kevan

Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/




From bobstek at ix.netcom.com  Fri Dec 11 05:19:06 1998
From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: SOL
Message-ID: <000401be24f8$108e4080$78f7fea9@mycroft>

Paxton -

Thanks for thinking of me.  I have my hands full right now, but I'm sure
that someone else on the list would like a SOL.  (And whoever that someone
is, contact me if you need docs or software.) And in the unlikely event that
no one comes forward shouting, "Me! Me! Me!" then I will save it.)

BTW, I had been meaning to get back to you about that 8" HH DSDD drive, but
"stuff" happened...  Still have one?

Bob Stek
bobstek@ix.netcom.com
Saver of Lost SOLs



From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk  Fri Dec 11 05:23:42 1998
From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
Message-ID: 

>>> had the (somewhat rare) 6809 CPU.
>>
>> I have a sales brochure here for the Acorn System 1,2 & 3. Inside it there
>> is an 'Advance Information' flyer describing the 6809 card. I quote: 

what machines were the 6809's used in? I believe I still have a box of
these somewhere - were they drop-in replacements for the 6502 then, but
with an extended instruction set or something?

cheers

Jules
>
>


From neil at goodnet.com  Fri Dec 11 05:28:07 1998
From: neil at goodnet.com (Neil B. Sheldon Sr)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:07 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981211042807.0075dea0@207.98.129.100>


For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay.

	http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48474125

						Neil.




From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Fri Dec 11 07:45:26 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Tandy 1000 TL/2 For Sale
Message-ID: <367121F5.6E08CC37@bigfoot.com>

Immaculate condition 286 machine! 768k ram, 40 mb IDE hard drive, 3.5"
and 5.25" floppies,  monitor port, 101 key keyboard port, 2 joystick
ports, 9 pin serial port  microphone and earhone jacks, volume control,
reset, more. Has 4 open 8 bit ISA slots, nice looking case. Has MSDOS
3.3 and Deskmate built in on ROMs leaving the hard drive free for your
programs.

Main unit ONLY - no keyboard or monitor selling for $30 plus shipping
Main unit with CM-5 color monitor (like new) selling for $50 plus
shipping.

Buyer can use a standard 101 key enhanced keyboard with the standard 5
pin DIN, available everywhere. Documents laying out the specifications
and enhancements are available in the manuals section at
http://support.tandy.com/ and there are also downlaodable setup programs

available for it as well.

NOTE: US 48 states only, no out of country shipments. Contact me direct
at RHBLAKE@BIGFOOT.COM if interested. SHipping will be the actual USPS
rate plus applicable insurance from zip 40144 in central KY to your zip.

Prepayment by cashier's check or money order, COD's may be possible.

Russ Blakeman
Harned, KY




From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Fri Dec 11 08:41:03 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Julian Richardson" at Dec 11, 98 11:23:42 am
Message-ID: <199812111441.GAA43862@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Dec 11 09:26:56 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: SOL
In-Reply-To: <000401be24f8$108e4080$78f7fea9@mycroft>
Message-ID: 

While I don't have room for any of the Tek 8000 equipment I think I could
find room for a SOL if you need to find a home for it.

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Bob Stek wrote:

> Paxton -
> 
> Thanks for thinking of me.  I have my hands full right now, but I'm sure
> that someone else on the list would like a SOL.  (And whoever that someone
> is, contact me if you need docs or software.) And in the unlikely event that
> no one comes forward shouting, "Me! Me! Me!" then I will save it.)
> 
> BTW, I had been meaning to get back to you about that 8" HH DSDD drive, but
> "stuff" happened...  Still have one?
> 
> Bob Stek
> bobstek@ix.netcom.com
> Saver of Lost SOLs
> 
> 



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Fri Dec 11 09:19:26 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <19981211031621.28330.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 11, 98 03:16:21 am
Message-ID: <199812111519.HAA43836@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From erd at infinet.com  Fri Dec 11 09:36:29 1998
From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812111519.HAA43836@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 11, 98 07:19:26 am
Message-ID: <199812111536.KAA22016@user2.infinet.com>

> 
> ::No, at intro the C-64 listed for US $599.  I don't recall the price of the
> ::1541, but I'm pretty sure it was at least $250.
> 
> Yep -- for a time the disk drive cost more than the computer. (!)

That was common in the PET days.  I paid $999 for a 32K 9" screen PET in
1978.  The disk drive (2040) was over $1200.  I got a C-64 and 1541
before I ever got a PET drive.  OTOH, I waited so long, a 4040 drive
was $5 at the University surplus.

-ethan



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Fri Dec 11 09:53:34 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To:  from "Max Eskin" at Dec 10, 98 06:56:35 pm
Message-ID: <199812111553.HAA44044@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:00:38 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: A nifty demo
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.16.19981211002710.75a79e8a@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <199812111558.PAA06084@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> > The actual demo had taken place 30 years ago in 1968, and the star of the
> > demo was Doug Englebart.

> 
> Engelbart.
> 

Come on - common English problems :)

> > Think about your first reaction to what sounds like whiteboarding software
> > that is starting to become commonplace.  Now consider that the demo was
> > filmed 30 years ago in *black and white*!  That's how far ahead Englebart
> > and his team really were (or, how far we *haven't* come when we should have!)

> Blame Microsoft; I do.

> The moral of the story is that it's relatively easy to give a good demo,
> slightly harder to do a real implementation, and then very hard to get
> market acceptance and penetration for new ideas.

Thats one thing, the other is how superior design (soft
and hardware) can be dumped in favour of crapy PCs.
Back in the late 70s and early 80s we had at SIEMENS a
network of EMS 5800 systems - OEM versions of the Xerox
Star - all over Germany and most European dependances.
Of course not every Employee had one, since including a
laser priter it was some 100,000 Mark value, but at least
most departments that needed to.

Just imagine, a System with 21" screens, mouse, OO desktop,
document centric workflow, WYSIWYG editing (in place etc.),
LAN/WAN networking, laser printers, xxx megabytes of storage
etc. in 1980 and this system was scraped in favour for DOS
(later Windows) PCs with 12" to 14" Displays and WORD (DOS).

And in my opinion no PC (no Win, no MacOS and no Next)
has catched up with the Star - and it's more than 20
years later !

BTW: Xerox' quality was just junk - from 10 systems
delivered to Witten (the SIEMENS plant where they
where configured and repacked) only 5 worked properly,
and 3 more could be reassembled from the five non
working. Like in the SU - 10 tractors delivered to
a farm coop and the farmers had to change parts
until at least 5 of them worked .... :)

> (The real moral of the story is that I have a pair of OmniShares, and I
> just felt like gloating :-)

It might be easyer if you just tell what hand held
device you don't have .... Grrr :)

Gruss
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:00:38 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 24x80 Standard? (was: Re: HX20)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19981211001622.75a7a06a@ricochet.net>
Message-ID: <199812111558.PAA06078@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >In a windowy world there are still plenty of applications that do great
> >work with an 80X24 character (or much less) screen.

> I was asked this yesterday (sorta) -- Why the 80x24 standard of yore?  

> I believe the 80 columns comes from the 80 column punched cards, but I
> can't remember where the 24 comes from.

No, it isn't this easy. First, early terminals had several formats
(like the Siemens 8150 with 54x18 char in 1972). Also there is a
bandwidth problem - for line displays (pixel) the minimum time
to go from black to white defines the wideth of a pixel, for vector
display the maximum of lenght of all vectors together is defined
by the luminescence time of the CRT and the drawing speed. More
vectors (letters visible) means lower intensity, since you can't
extend the luminiscence periode if you want a fast changes including
character delete or scrolling.

For a vector displays (with 1970s technology), a 2000 characters
displist results already in about a half second for screen
refresh. so 80x25 was more then the possible maximum.

For pixel displays the number of characters in a row is limited
by the number of pixels possible to show, if we assume 6 pixels
per character (this only allowes upper case letters) you get
480 pixels in a row - or more than 7 MHz pixel clock (@60 Hz
& ~250 rows)) - already hard to display for 1970s technology.

Now we could add more lines for display, od display the vectors
in a different ratio but this wouldn't enlarge the screen -
Basicly all CRTs are build with a form factor of or around 4 by 3.
Talkin this, and the fact that a letter has  ratio of (a bit less
than) 5 by 2 to be 'well cuted' you get a 10 by 3 ratio for the
number of caracters in a row to the number of caracters in a columne.

So a 40x12 or a 80x24 similar gives a 'good' view (Just for us
ol'apple freaks, didn't the APPLE ][ 40x24 display look _very_
clumbsy ? And didn't the TRS-80 charset lookt a lot more 'slimline' ?)

Gruss
Hans

P.S.: 10 by 3 or 16 by 5 (as in 80x25) isn't realy the question -
I just use always 10x3 since it is easyer to remember

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com  Fri Dec 11 10:13:18 1998
From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
Message-ID: 

>> accident). He used the HX-20 to print small notes on the paper-tape
>> printer (it sounds like a single-line dot-matrix printhead impact
>> printer) and also
>
>The HX20 printer is quite interesting. It's got 4 print solenoids/pins on 
>a little 'shuttle', spaced 5 characters apart in the same horizontal 

Sounds famalier - similar to an NCR pos receipt "ANSWER"
printer - Alpha Numeric Single Wire Electronic Recorder
of mid 80's vintage.


	Chuck
	cswiger@widomaker.com




From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:16:53 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981211103115.009d4740@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>
References: <199812101258.MAA04336@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <199812111614.QAA08353@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >> I guess prototype 2650 S100 machines / cards qualify?  There must be a lot
> >> of homebrew "single instance" machines lying around.  Here's one I'm
> >> particularly fond of...
> >> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html
> >> This machine ran CP/M on a 2650 using a software 8080 emulator written in
> >> 2650.  Slowly!

> >Just tell me this is a joke ... not only a 2650 _somwhere_, but
> >rather a real S100 system 

> I seem to recall that there were commercially available 2650 S100 cards....

Do you have more information ?
Could this have been a down under specific thing ?

Gruss
Hans


--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:16:52 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Linux Q's
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812101015.KAA04986@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 10, 98 11:15:51 am
Message-ID: <199812111614.QAA08356@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > > Does the kernel source count as 'written documentation'? Is it cheating 
> > > to read that? It's how I seem to work out what some of the more obscure 
> > > functions are for...
> > Trapped me :) But hey, source isn't ment to be read ...

> Isn't it? Next you'll be telling me that schematics aren't meant to be 
> read either, and that a pile of service manuals is not 'light bedtime 
> reading'....

Got me again ...

Grins
H.

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:16:52 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: VIC's in Germany (was: Re: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <3670849B.3F90579B@cnct.com>
Message-ID: <199812111615.QAA08363@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> > > > > > VIC-20 (or VC20 as they have been sold in Germany) are
> > > > > Trivia question: Why are VIC-20's called VC-20 in Germany?
> > > > Am I allowed to answer ?
> > > Sure!

> > First, like Cameron already explaned, if VIC is pronounced
> > as one word it gives the same sound as f*ck (*insert here the
> > language specific vovel) - this is region dependant, but
> > especialy true in the area where Commodore was located.
> > Second, if spelled (Vau Ih Ceh) it sounds clumbsy, while
> > VC (Vau Ceh) could be spoken fluent. And third, Commodore
> > tried to catch up with the marketing idea of a VolksComputer.
> > Like the Volkswagen :)

> > Also the C64 was marketed as VC 64 in the beginning :)

> Yeah, well, VIC'em if they can't take a joke.  (Unless you'd
> rather TI'em up).

I realy don't know, but I would put up at least some beer that
an US manager could had done this decision - Germans only
laught at this kind of PCnes...

Gruss
Hans
I'm not a fan of PC, no mather of which is ment :)

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:16:52 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981211042807.0075dea0@207.98.129.100>
Message-ID: <199812111615.QAA08386@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay.

> 	http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48474125

Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From ddameron at earthlink.net  Fri Dec 11 10:22:13 1998
From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: E.I. Homebuilt Computer (was Re: "Single instance" 
  machines)
Message-ID: <199812111622.IAA09466@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hi Doug and all,
At 02:10 PM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote:
>
>> I would be interested in the article. I built the later one (E.I., about
>> 1966) with 60 neon lamps as 6 decade shift register/counters and a rotary
>> telephone dial. This one used 3 12AU7/ECC82 as 6 buffer amps. The diodes in
>> it I used were from scrapped IBM assemblies. I still have some 6V lamps in
>> orange plastic holders from the same scrapyard, used on some IBM panels.
>
>Very cool, Dave!  I didn't know about that one.  Any chance you can
>pin-point the issue it appeared in?
>
I don't know the exact issue. I have it in a magazine- a collection of E.I.
Articles: "Electronics Illustrated Practical Electronics",  by Fawcett, No.
641, copyright 1966. It is a red magazine with a 72 mc radio controlled
system on the cover + "Electronic Computer" + "Low power Transmitter".


>I have the 1960 article, but I haven't built the 1960 machine (yet).
>The nice case alone looks like it would be a coupla hundred bucks to
>replicate today, but I suppose you could just make a bare-board version.
>

-Dave



From fauradon at pclink.com  Fri Dec 11 10:45:40 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Looking for group archive
Message-ID: <00bc01be2525$b0a16f20$1f6e0181@fauradon.beckman.com>

Hi all,
I'm looking for the archive. I know someone has it somewhere but I just
rebuilt my system and lost the whole deal (Who needs to backup?)
Thanks
Francois



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:55:57 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <19981211031621.28330.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <199812111654.QAA12753@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >But the original comment was that the complete C64 system cost more than
> >a complete A][ system in Germany; US prices are irrelevant.

> Ah, I thought Max was refering to US systems.

No, it was about my posting - and the reference where A][
_compatible_ (noname) systems.

Gruss
Hans
(Thanks Eric)

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:55:57 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Digital Group photo from VCF?
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210153626.009b43a0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
References: <19981210232200.27024.qmail@brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <199812111654.QAA12757@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> I believe there was a picture of it, Hans could could take a picture of it
> at this point, he stole^h^h^h^h^hbought it from me :-) 

Jep, I always thought living with stolen things
will do a pain to my soul, but it's just great !

Gruss
Hans
(Should I take one ?)

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 11:55:57 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812102135.QAA00305@localhost>
Message-ID: <199812111654.QAA12746@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de wrote:
> > Don't forget: the V(I)C-20 was a bit faster and a way better
> > design then the C64.

> I learned many things about the C64 recently.
> First, that it was a underpowered, low quality computer that was more
> expensive than an Apple ][ and had less features. I disagree because I
> have never liked the Apple ][ more than the C64. 

Its less a term of 'like' maybe you discovered the Apple
in a less friendly environment :)

First of all the Apple has been 5 years of software development
ahead - there have been already zillions of programms, when the
C64 could just show his ready prompt. Second the A][ had an open
hardware concept with extension in mind (althrough some real
nasty quirks) so anything from serial to HPIB and from tapes
to Harddisks have been already available in '82. Coprocessors
from Z80 (SoftCard) and 6809 (The Mill) up to 68K or 8086 have
been wiedly available, together with fiting OSes (CP/M, OS/9,...)

And I liked the open system where you could start at a well
defined level of clariety, while on the C64 (like the PETs)
you had to start with a stick called peek and poke to find
your way thru the fog of unknown.

> Second, I learn that the VIC-20, a predecessor to the C-64, was better
> than it. How is this? Last I heard, it is the VIC that was underpowered
> because it only had 8k ram or something like. Please explain; how was it
> better?

(it had only 5 K :)

The VIC20 was running at 1 MHz, while the C64 was running at 0.98
MHz (PAL) and did spend a lot time in hold for the video access
(The Apple had a complete hidden video access, so no time was
taken from the CPU). Efectivly the CPU of the C64 was some 13%
slower than the VIC20 (The higher clock rate in the NTSC version
(~ 1.02 MHz) was countered by the higher frame rate :) - and not
to forget that using tricks like sprites again decreased the
performance. With an exception of the 128 in fast mode (and
of course the fast 600/700 Models) the VIC-20 has been the
fastest Commodore 8-Bit computer.

Also the VIC20 Kernal was better designed and even the same
devices (like the 1540) have been supported faster and more
reliable.

And last but not least, the cardridge system, including the
add on box, did make almost an open system - VIC20s with
PET floppies via IEEE bus or VICs as replacement of PETs
have been quite common.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From dastar at ncal.verio.com  Fri Dec 11 11:00:22 1998
From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
In-Reply-To: <199812111615.QAA08386@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:

> > For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay.
> 
> > 	http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48474125
> 
> Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
> the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
> Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
> for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?

C'mon, Hans!  Get with it.  This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.

Sellam                                    Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.

                  Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
                   See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
                        [Last web site update: 12/07/98]



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 12:12:34 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3.0.5.32.19981210085523.01d83cf0@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 10, 98 08:55:23 am
Message-ID: <199812111710.RAA15001@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> Years ago (1984?) in the UK there were computer programs transmitted by 
> the BBC using a Dutch format called Basicode. 

> I remember staying up late on several occasions, recording off the radio 
> onto a cassette tape and loading it onto my old Model 1 TRS-80. 

> Oh yes. It was called the 'chip shop takeaway service' :-). Awful pun...

> Does anyone else here remember this?

Not from GB, but Basicode has also been popular in Germany,
later on combined with Supertape format to get a comon tape
exchange for a real lot of homecomputers. Also most of the
porgramms that have been published using a bar code printout
in magazines used Basicode, to reach as many readers as
possible.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 12:12:34 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Oh ! You Beautiful Doll !
In-Reply-To: <01BE2495.AA87B4E0@slip-32-100-187-220.oh.us.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <199812111710.RAA15014@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>


> [Now I'm never going to be able to show my face in this group again].

:)))))

> I could do some amusing and humorous [NOT Perverted !!!] things with
> it at work if I could create my own phrases for the doll to say

Not pervert but still humourus ?

> [ok, so I could do some perverted things also, but that's NOT what I had in mind !].

Ahh, going back to normal :)

> Apparently the toy was not successful and they are being liquidated for as little as $10-$15.

No, sorry, no Idea, but if they are sold ar 10 USD, it
might be fun to get two or three and open one to get
more information. Would this be possible ?

Regarding the size of the pupet, I guess it's only a
fixed programmed text - but if they used one of the
standard designs, adding new, serial ROMs is possible.
Even if tey used a special package to minimize cost.

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From jfoust at threedee.com  Fri Dec 11 11:15:00 1998
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
In-Reply-To: 
References: <199812111615.QAA08386@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981211111500.00f7bea0@pc>

At 09:00 AM 12/11/98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote:
>
>C'mon, Hans!  Get with it.  This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
>thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.

So entering a description like "It's not an Altair, but..." would
be more accurate and wouldn't attract eyeballs or search queries?  :-)

- John



From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 12:24:59 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Modem tones over television or radio
In-Reply-To: <19981211075803.29433.qmail@brouhaha.com>
References: <3670A054.9C52E971@cnct.com> (message from Ward Donald Griffiths	III on Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:32:20 -0500)
Message-ID: <199812111723.RAA16250@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> Sam wrote:
> > FYI, the phrase "touch tones" is not trademarked by anyone anymore.  I
> > don't know that it ever was, but the misconception is that it at least
> > still is.  It's not.

> Ward wrote:
> > Never was that I know of.  And if it had been, we'd have heard
> > something about a lawsuit.

> In the United States, Touchtone was a registered trademark of AT&T.  I'm
> not sure when they gave it up; it may have been at the time of the
> divestiture.  A query of the trademark database reveals seven current
> registered trademarks incorporating the word touchtone:

> 	Touchtone Invest
> 	Fidelity Touchtone Xpress
> 	Touchtone Xpress
> 	Touchtone Jobsline
> 	Touchtone Rentsline
> 	Touchtone Transportation
> 	Touchtone Trader

> The last of these was the earliest filed, on March 26, 1992, so I think
> it's a safe bet that AT&T gave up the trademark before that date.

> In some countries Touchtone is still a trademark of the applicable telephone
> company or agency.  For example, in the UK it is a registered trademark of 
> British Telecommunications PLC:

AFAIK these trademarks have only been non exclusive.
For Trademarks there is a distinction between exclusive
and non exclusive use - to name a easy to understand
US based example, there is the trademark 'White House'
(or Whitehouse or whitehouse) - this trademark is at
least owned by 10 different companies (including the
famous whitehouse.com), but non of them exclusive.

Trademarks are normaly only given for a special product
class - for example, a PTC can trademark Touchtone
for their telephones, but a musical instrument company
can also trademark the same name for lets day a drum
computer. Sometimes a trademark could also be non
exclusive within a group. Gerneral Trademarks are
rare (or should be, but most trademark agancies today
grant them to easy - especialy if a BIG company wants
to take it).

Gruss
Hans
(not a lawyer - just a burned child)

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From marvin at rain.org  Fri Dec 11 11:22:19 1998
From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
References: 
Message-ID: <367154CB.70743F73@rain.org>

Sam Ismail wrote:
> 
> > Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
> > the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
> > Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
> > for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
> 
> C'mon, Hans!  Get with it.  This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
> thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.

Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!

And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of Popular Electronics
(Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00.  A week or so ago, the January 1975
issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00.  Something is worth what
someone else is willing to pay for it.


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 12:38:57 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812111553.HAA44044@oa.ptloma.edu>
References:  from "Max Eskin" at Dec 10, 98 06:56:35 pm
Message-ID: <199812111737.RAA17374@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> Warning: heavy bias and Commodore history!

> ::I learned many things about the C64 recently.
> ::First, that it was a underpowered, low quality computer that was more
> ::expensive than an Apple ][ and had less features. I disagree because I
> ::have never liked the Apple ][ more than the C64. 

> [...good description of A2 vs C64 and VIC20 vs. C64 ..]

couldn't have don better (Why did I just answer the original postng ? :)

> The software gap closed quickly.

For gamers of course (althrugh adventures still got out
first on the a][)

> Sound? Without a Mockingboard, don't make me laugh. :-)

Hey, never heared the _TWO_ voices sound programms ?
or one Bit voice samples on the Apple :)))

(Just think about all the work that is done nowadays
to reproduce _real_ beep and boing wit multimedia eq :)

> Nevertheless, though, I don't think anyone will doubt that the 64 has it in
> spades over the Apple in sheer graphics and sound power. And the 64 did
> very well versus the Nintendo, despite the NES' expanded colour palette (I
> think 256).

Well, exactly this is it - the C64 was way more used among
and against video consoles than computers. For a game like
Bards Tale, Ultima or Wizardry (I still can runn the first
3 levels of Wizardry 1 in my dreams) the difference wasn't
realy important.

> Nevertheless, the 64 was a revolutionary improvement in terms of its memory
> and graphics/sound capabilities. The VIC-20 was just better built.

My point.


Servus
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From Watzman at ibm.net  Fri Dec 11 11:47:35 1998
From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: SOL
Message-ID: <01BE2504.745E8140@slip-32-100-187-129.oh.us.ibm.net>

If we are talking about a processor technology SOL-20, I am interested.  Where is it, what condition is it in, and what are the terms of the offer ?

Barry Watzman
Watzman@ibm.net


----------
From:  Bob Stek [SMTP:bobstek@ix.netcom.com]
Sent:  Friday, December 11, 1998 6:19 AM
To:  Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject:  SOL

Paxton -

Thanks for thinking of me.  I have my hands full right now, but I'm sure
that someone else on the list would like a SOL.  (And whoever that someone
is, contact me if you need docs or software.) And in the unlikely event that
no one comes forward shouting, "Me! Me! Me!" then I will save it.)

BTW, I had been meaning to get back to you about that 8" HH DSDD drive, but
"stuff" happened...  Still have one?

Bob Stek
bobstek@ix.netcom.com
Saver of Lost SOLs





From cfandt at netsync.net  Fri Dec 11 12:21:48 1998
From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Looking for group archive
In-Reply-To: <00bc01be2525$b0a16f20$1f6e0181@fauradon.beckman.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981211131932.00ac6210@206.231.8.2>

At 10:45 12/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>I'm looking for the archive. I know someone has it somewhere but I just
>rebuilt my system and lost the whole deal (Who needs to backup?)
>Thanks
>Francois

Hi Francois and others too who may have just joined the list,

Kevan Heydon has an archive site:
http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/

Regards,  Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt,         Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY  USA      cfandt@netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
        URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/


From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Fri Dec 11 12:28:18 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
Message-ID: <981211132818.2f000530@trailing-edge.com>

>> I seem to recall that there were commercially available 2650 S100 cards....
>Do you have more information ?

I recall this as well.  The source of more information would
undoubtedly be to page through a big stack of _BYTE_'s from the mid
and late 70's.

Remember, in the S-100 world "commercially available" means that someone
etched a PC board and maybe, if you're lucky, they actually typed
up a manual with hand-drawn schematics.

Tim.


From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de  Fri Dec 11 13:37:18 1998
From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
In-Reply-To: <981211132818.2f000530@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <199812111835.SAA21513@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>

> >> I seem to recall that there were commercially available 2650 S100 cards....
> >Do you have more information ?

> I recall this as well.  The source of more information would
> undoubtedly be to page through a big stack of _BYTE_'s from the mid
> and late 70's.

> Remember, in the S-100 world "commercially available" means that someone
> etched a PC board and maybe, if you're lucky, they actually typed
> up a manual with hand-drawn schematics.

Thats still graet :)
I guess for a working 2650 System one could wrench
a lot of bucks out of my purse :)

Gruss
Hans

--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK


From bobstek at ix.netcom.com  Fri Dec 11 12:49:33 1998
From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Feeding frenzy for SOL
Message-ID: <000901be2536$fe613e00$78f7fea9@mycroft>

Boy, will I have to be careful how I phrase things!  My initial response was
to Paxton Hoag's public Classiccmp message to me that he had uncovered
another SOL (I had previously purchased one from him many months ago).  My
public response was to thank him but decline, instead suggesting that any
other reader of his message or my message might be interested.  I then
offered to take it if no one else was interested (can't have a SOL go to the
junkyard after all).  Apparently several people are interested, some of whom
have contacted me and some of whom have contacted Paxton.  So Paxton has the
SOL - contact him for details.

(Shall we have a private ClassicCmp eBay.com auction and see who will bid
the highest? {{big wicked grin}} We can then replay the messages about
everyone's collecting / buying / selling / bidding / anti-eBay / pro-market
forces / I'd-rather-give-it-a-good-home philosophies.  Are we all unanimous
in our support of diverse opinions? - please raise your hands!)

However, as the last North American bastion against creeping planned
obsolescence (i.e., everything Intel has made since the 8080), as an
original SOL owner, and as a current SOL / N* owner, I am happy to share
copies of documentation and software for cost of copying plus shipping (or
trades - be aware that the SOL manual is very large, but if you can do
without the assembly instructions, it's not too bad - it does have good
schematics and a detailed theory of operation).  I am still in the midst of
sorting out some recent ProcTech finds, and will keep the ClassicCmp list
updated with what I have uncovered and what is available as I find the time.
(Yes, I did find a Helios and no, I haven't hooked it up yet).

BTW, whoever said that I had "too many SOLs"   ...that's an oxymoron in my
book  !

Bob Stek
bobstek@ix.netcom.com
Saver of Lost SOLs



From fauradon at pclink.com  Fri Dec 11 12:53:22 1998
From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Looking for group archive
Message-ID: <000a01be2537$87b5cc20$1f6e0181@fauradon.beckman.com>

Thank you
Francois 

>Kevan Heydon has an archive site:
>http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/
>
>Regards,  Chris




From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Fri Dec 11 12:55:47 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
In-Reply-To: <199812111835.SAA21513@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <000201be2537$dcf49cc0$2cf438cb@a.davie>

Speaking of which, I have just found the manual for the commercial 2650
board.
It's the SBC 2650 (I'm guessing SBC is "Single Board Computer" - I won't
even bother looking it up to confirm!).    Includes functional description,
circuit diagram, assembly instructions, fault finding software, etc etc.
Wahoo!!
Money is a great motivator ;)
Cheers
A

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu
> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Hans Franke
> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 1998 5:38 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: 2650 (was:Type list (was: single instance machines))
>
>
> > >> I seem to recall that there were commercially available 2650
> S100 cards....
> > >Do you have more information ?
>
> > I recall this as well.  The source of more information would
> > undoubtedly be to page through a big stack of _BYTE_'s from the mid
> > and late 70's.
>
> > Remember, in the S-100 world "commercially available" means that someone
> > etched a PC board and maybe, if you're lucky, they actually typed
> > up a manual with hand-drawn schematics.
>
> Thats still graet :)
> I guess for a working 2650 System one could wrench
> a lot of bucks out of my purse :)
>
> Gruss
> Hans
>
> --
> Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
> HRK
>



From kurtkilg at geocities.com  Fri Dec 11 12:59:51 1998
From: kurtkilg at geocities.com (Max Eskin)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: A nifty demo
References: <3.0.16.19981211002710.75a79e8a@ricochet.net> <199812111558.PAA06084@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <36716BA6.473C1F84@geocities.com>



Hans Franke wrote:

> Just imagine, a System with 21" screens, mouse, OO desktop,
> document centric workflow, WYSIWYG editing (in place etc.),
> LAN/WAN networking, laser printers, xxx megabytes of storage
> etc. in 1980 and this system was scraped in favour for DOS
> (later Windows) PCs with 12" to 14" Displays and WORD (DOS).
>

>
> And in my opinion no PC (no Win, no MacOS and no Next)
> has catched up with the Star - and it's more than 20
> years later !
>

But you could put a PC together to those specs. As to the OO desktop, that's another
story.

> working. Like in the SU - 10 tractors delivered to
> a farm coop and the farmers had to change parts
> until at least 5 of them worked .... :)
>

What comes to my mind is that once the crops were harvested, there wasn't always
someone to pick them up and they often rotted in the field. Kind of like powerful
computers that aren't being used properly. Think of what Xerox engineers could have
done if they had access to a DEC Alpha or a PowerPC.



From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Dec 11 13:24:27 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Annual troll for Ohio Scientific
In-Reply-To: <000a01be2537$87b5cc20$1f6e0181@fauradon.beckman.com>
Message-ID: 


It has been at least 6 months so maybe it is time again.

I'm always looking for OSI hardware.  I am specifically looking for C4 and
C8 machines and/or Floppy drives for such critters.

Perhaps we could create an inventory list among us and see if we might be
able to mix/match to build more complete systems.

I'll start:

I have the following:

C2-4p Empty case
C4p   Comes up with 256 Bytes of RAM


George
=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX



From adavie at mad.scientist.com  Fri Dec 11 13:10:42 1998
From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812111553.HAA44044@oa.ptloma.edu>
Message-ID: <000301be2539$f284b6e0$2cf438cb@a.davie>

> Nevertheless, though, I don't think anyone will doubt that the 64
> has it in
> spades over the Apple in sheer graphics and sound power. And the 64 did
> very well versus the Nintendo, despite the NES' expanded colour palette (I
> think 256). In terms of graphic flexibility (without raster tricks), it is
> at least as powerful as the 9918A, and with raster tricks its
> flexibility is
> on par with ANTIC. And SID was more than a match for anyone else
> when "advanced
> sound" was POKEY and the AY synths. I'm glad my parents got me my
> first 64.


Well, being a professional programmer of both the NES and the C64 for some
years, I would probably have a closer-to-the-metal view of things.  The NES
was a nightmare to program, due to the small sprites and quirky hardware.
The C64 offered easy to use graphics, wonderful sprites and simple
architecture.  The NES, for example, accessed all video memory through a
single hardware write/read register after setting a different address
register.  Video access was not possible whilst the screen was on -
everything had to be done in the vertical blank.   THAT only gave enough
time to modify about 50 characters/frame.  All sprite data needed to be
reinitialised every VB period, taking a whole whack more processing time...
it was quirky, and "cheap" in terms of user friendliness.  The NES only had
a single palette, from memory, giving just 13 colours.  The C64 offered
interrupts on a line-by-line basis;  the NES offered only a single "sprite
collision", which could not be retriggered until the next frame.  It was
really really kludgy.  The C64 was streets ahead as a programmers' machine;
there really is no comparison.

Being an ex-programmer of the Atari machines, too (Atari 400/800) - which
used ANTIC and display lists, I'd say that neither the C64 nor the NES
(especially!!) were anything like a match for ANTIC.  Atari were streets
ahead in terms of ease of use and capability - IMHO.  The area where the C64
shone was the large, reusable, sprites.  The area where the NES shone was
uh... uh... well, its a crap machine.  It just had a lot of software.

Just my 2c, as a victim of all the machines.

Cheers
A



From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com  Fri Dec 11 13:38:06 1998
From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Free ADM-5, other stuff, DC area
Message-ID: <981211143806.2f000530@trailing-edge.com>

For anyone who wants a 17-year-old terminal that looks just like
an iMac, I've got a Lear-Siegler ADM5 here that works and I'd like
to give away.  Pickup only, in Bethesda MD (just inside the Beltway).

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927



From eric at brouhaha.com  Fri Dec 11 14:31:48 1998
From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: 24x80 Standard? (was: Re: HX20)
In-Reply-To: <199812111558.PAA06078@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
	(Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de)
References: <199812111558.PAA06078@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de>
Message-ID: <19981211203148.103.qmail@brouhaha.com>

Hans wrote:
> So a 40x12 or a 80x24 similar gives a 'good' view (Just for us
> ol'apple freaks, didn't the APPLE ][ 40x24 display look _very_
> clumbsy ?

Well, maybe so, but I'm glad they *didn't* go with 40x12.

40 characters was chosen because it was the most that a typical television
(not monitor) in 1976 could display legibly.  And even so, most color
televisions still had color fringes on the characters.

Eric



From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu  Fri Dec 11 15:24:44 1998
From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <000301be2539$f284b6e0$2cf438cb@a.davie> from "Andrew Davie" at Dec 12, 98 06:10:42 am
Message-ID: <199812112124.NAA26496@oa.ptloma.edu>

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From spc at armigeron.com  Sat Dec 12 15:38:37 1998
From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: "Single instance" machines
In-Reply-To: <199812112124.NAA26496@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 11, 98 01:24:44 pm
Message-ID: <199812122138.QAA05052@armigeron.com>

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From neil at netzone.com  Fri Dec 11 15:56:02 1998
From: neil at netzone.com (Neil B. Sheldon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
References:  <367154CB.70743F73@rain.org>
Message-ID: <367194F2.5F506B95@netzone.com>



Well, the reason that I put 'Altair Imsai S100 Bus' on it is so that people
could find it during the search process.  While other Mfg. used the processors,
most people that would be looking for something like that would also be
interested in that other stuff. Additionally, There were boards made with the
z80 for the S100 bus machines. Could be used by any of those people. No
intention to 'dupe' anyone, just find the ones that would be interested in
looking at it.


Neil.




Marvin wrote:

> Sam Ismail wrote:
> >
> > > Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
> > > the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
> > > Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
> > > for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
> >
> > C'mon, Hans!  Get with it.  This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
> > thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
>
> Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
>
> And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of Popular Electronics
> (Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00.  A week or so ago, the January 1975
> issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00.  Something is worth what
> someone else is willing to pay for it.





From dcoward at pressstart.com  Fri Dec 11 16:01:16 1998
From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
Message-ID: <19981211135239.90b33492.in@mail.pressstart.com>

Richard A. Cini, Jr. said:
>    I saw a project in one of my old Bytes for a hand-pulled paper tape
>reader. Very simple - 9 photodiodes, a light, a latch, a pulse-stretcher,
>and some guide posts.
>    Well, here's the parts I have lying around: a BasicStamp-II, two R/C
>servos modified for constant running, a few switches, and photodiodes.
>    If I get this thing working over the Christmas holiday, I'll post a
>construction article.
>    Any recommendations for rubber pinch rollers? I'm thinking rubber
>stoppers from a plumbing supply shop. These are pre-drilled and come with a
>washer, bolt, and wing nut.

FWIW, I have a "store bought" manual tape reader about the size of a small
candy bar. The circuit board inside has the row of detectors (9 in all),
and two hex TTL bus driver ICs, and that's it. On the outside, a piece of
black
tape with 9 holes punched in it, covers the detectors. Over this is a strip
of clear plastic supported by four very short nylon stand-offs. I insert
the paper tape under the plastic and between the stand-offs. That's all thats
needed to keep the paper tape alined and flat against the detectors. Room 
light is used to detect the holes. The output is 9 bit parallel, which I
connect to a VIC-20 user port with the spocket hole output going to the
interrupt line for that port. Unfortunately writing the software to read 
tapes is one of those projects that I have no gotten back to.
  As far as lighting goes, the Heath H-10 uses a neat trick. In it they
use a automobile tail light bulb which has a filament about an inch long.
They position the bulb so that the filament is directly over, alined with,
and parallel to the row of detectors. This gives uniform illumenation to all
the detectors.
  
 
=========================================
Doug Coward	           
Press Start Inc.          
Sunnyvale,CA    
=========================================


From neil at netzone.com  Fri Dec 11 15:59:33 1998
From: neil at netzone.com (Neil B. Sheldon)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Z-80 Emulator
References: <199812111615.QAA08386@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> <3.0.5.32.19981211111500.00f7bea0@pc>
Message-ID: <367195C5.842BF555@netzone.com>

You only have so much room for the Title. If I had more room to put a 'search'
title that was more descriptive, I would have put it in there.

                                            Neil.


John Foust wrote:

> At 09:00 AM 12/11/98 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote:
> >
> >C'mon, Hans!  Get with it.  This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
> >thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
>
> So entering a description like "It's not an Altair, but..." would
> be more accurate and wouldn't attract eyeballs or search queries?  :-)
>
> - John





From rhblake at bigfoot.com  Fri Dec 11 16:05:06 1998
From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Help!  PS 2 model P70
References: <3.0.1.16.19981210101738.301fd946@intellistar.net>
Message-ID: <36719710.ACDCA09F@bigfoot.com>

Joe wrote:

>   I have a P70 that won't boot. It displays error numbers 167 and 163. Does
> anyone know anything about these?

As said before, you need the setup disk, known as a "reference disk" as these
are commonly acquanted with a dead battery causing the settings to go away. The
single best source for info and file links for the entire PS/2 line is at
http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ and you can then download the P70 reference
disk via this page. Note that the machine is not a model 70 (type 8570) but
rather a P70, (type 8573) so make sure you get the appropriate reference disk
file. Once you download the EXE image, go to the DOS prompt and path to where
the download is.Put a blank 1.44 in the floppy drive and then type the file
name followed by an A: to tell it to run and that you wish to make the disk on
A:....An example would be RF8573.EXE A:

Boot the P70 with the disk and it will most likely ask if you wish to run
auto-config. Yes is a viable option. It may ask you for an additional disk for
an adapter installed (there are 2 mca card slots in the P70) so you need to hit
ESC until you can figure out what the additional ADF file is that you'll need.
I won't go into this unless you hae the problem, so if you do email me direct
and I can help you there.

Should you need a battery, take the old one out and go to the local Walmart,
Kmart, etc and look in their photo batteries. These are marked as an IBM
replacement but are actually a standard photo battery. An IBM "computer"
battery runs about $18 but the same battery packaged as a photo battery goes at
about $10.

If you need a little more help write me direct. I do these all the time and
know them inside out. I have one that's even been upgraded to a 486DX that I
gave my wife, and one to the side that's fully there but has a broken hinge on
the screen mount.

To open the back cover, should you need to, just undo the three captive screws.
One is behind the access door, two on  the bottom. Then lightly pry at the
handle area of the cover and it will come up and off. If you find you have a
token ring card in it and you don't have a need for it, pull the card and then
you shouldn't have a need for an ADF file for it. Of course you'll need to
rerun the reference disk.

Russ Blakeman



From pechter at monmouth.com  Fri Dec 11 16:08:26 1998
From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: A nifty demo
In-Reply-To: <199812111558.PAA06084@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from Hans Franke at "Dec 11, 98 05:01:38 pm"
Message-ID: <199812112208.RAA01642@monmouth.com>

> > The moral of the story is that it's relatively easy to give a good demo,
> > slightly harder to do a real implementation, and then very hard to get
> > market acceptance and penetration for new ideas.
> 
> Thats one thing, the other is how superior design (soft
> and hardware) can be dumped in favour of crapy PCs.
> Back in the late 70s and early 80s we had at SIEMENS a
> network of EMS 5800 systems - OEM versions of the Xerox
> Star - all over Germany and most European dependances.
> Of course not every Employee had one, since including a
> laser priter it was some 100,000 Mark value, but at least
> most departments that needed to.

There were a bunch of 'em  (Xerox Star) at Siemens Princeton in 
1985 when I was maintaining the DEC stuff there. 
Nice stuff, great WSYWIC, lousy maintenance problems with the
hardware and software though.


> And in my opinion no PC (no Win, no MacOS and no Next)
> has catched up with the Star - and it's more than 20
> years later !

Yup.  I did get to see them and Ventura Publisher and there
seemed to be some similarity.  Did Ventura start with ex-Star
folks?

> 
> BTW: Xerox' quality was just junk - from 10 systems
> delivered to Witten (the SIEMENS plant where they
> where configured and repacked) only 5 worked properly,
> and 3 more could be reassembled from the five non
> working. Like in the SU - 10 tractors delivered to
> a farm coop and the farmers had to change parts
> until at least 5 of them worked .... :)

They got real slipshod for a while, even on the copiers.
They lost a lot of that business to Kodak (who took over -- I think--
the IBM copilers).

Both DEC and Bell Labs ran those Kodak beasts and you could copy a whole
library on 'em without problems.  Ask me about my CP/M doc set 8-).

> Gruss
> H.


Bill


From dcoward at pressstart.com  Fri Dec 11 16:24:04 1998
From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Looking for analog owners
Message-ID: <19981211141526.90c8130b.in@mail.pressstart.com>


 I would like to make a list of fellow analog computer
owners that are interested in sharing information about
manufacturers, programming tips, histories, books, 
pictures of machines, etc. I know you're out there!
E-Mail me.


=========================================
Doug Coward	           
Press Start Inc.          
Sunnyvale,CA    
=========================================


From cmcmanis at freegate.com  Fri Dec 11 16:27:55 1998
From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Latest Project: homebrew paper tape reader
In-Reply-To: <19981211135239.90b33492.in@mail.pressstart.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981211142501.00b23100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>

I have a similar project (but a distinct advantage) which is I have a third
party tape punch/reader unit from an ASR-43 (the dot matrix teletype) and
it has basically a bad controller board (8048 based, EPROMs (1702's) read
as 0x00 on my prom programmer). I'm thinking of using something like a
BASIC Stamp II to talk to the punch/reader unit that also seems to be some
sort of oem gizmo. 

The bottom line is/was that such things (ie dead units) might be around to
salvage...
--Chuck




From SUPRDAVE at aol.com  Fri Dec 11 16:06:39 1998
From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Annual troll for Ohio Scientific
Message-ID: <15c5a969.3671976f@aol.com>

I have a C1P with a complete set of documentation and presale material
including schematics. i believe i also have a bare disk controller board, but
i dont know for sure. i might need some of my parts identified. 

david

In a message dated 12/11/98 11:15:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
george@racsys.rt.rain.com writes:

<< It has been at least 6 months so maybe it is time again.
 
 I'm always looking for OSI hardware.  I am specifically looking for C4 and
 C8 machines and/or Floppy drives for such critters.
 
 Perhaps we could create an inventory list among us and see if we might be
 able to mix/match to build more complete systems.
 
 I'll start:
 
 I have the following:
 
 C2-4p Empty case
 C4p   Comes up with 256 Bytes of RAM >>


From nabil at teleport.com  Fri Dec 11 16:16:34 1998
From: nabil at teleport.com (nabil@teleport.com)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Rescue a pair of RK05-j's in Portland, OR
Message-ID: <199812112216.OAA25504@user1.teleport.com>


I have a pair of RK05-j's that would love to be rescued.  They
are in Portland, Oregon, and are each in a DEC rack by
themselves.  The racks need to go with them.  If you can't
pick them up, the only way to have them shipped would be to
have someone pick them up, as I can't transport them anyplace.

Free, but act quickly, as they are in my way and probably
won't be around much past this week.

Reply directly via email, I don't read two out of the three 
places this is posted to.


-- 
Aaron Nabil
nabil@teleport.com


From george at racsys.rt.rain.com  Fri Dec 11 17:00:06 1998
From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Annual troll for Ohio Scientific
In-Reply-To: <15c5a969.3671976f@aol.com>
Message-ID: 

That makes two of us... I might start a mini listserve!

George

=========================================================
George L. Rachor		george@racsys.rt.rain.com
Beaverton, Oregon               http://racsys.rt.rain.com
                                KD7DCX

On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote:

> I have a C1P with a complete set of documentation and presale material
> including schematics. i believe i also have a bare disk controller board, but
> i dont know for sure. i might need some of my parts identified. 
> 
> david
> 
> In a message dated 12/11/98 11:15:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> george@racsys.rt.rain.com writes:
> 
> << It has been at least 6 months so maybe it is time again.
>  
>  I'm always looking for OSI hardware.  I am specifically looking for C4 and
>  C8 machines and/or Floppy drives for such critters.
>  
>  Perhaps we could create an inventory list among us and see if we might be
>  able to mix/match to build more complete systems.
>  
>  I'll start:
>  
>  I have the following:
>  
>  C2-4p Empty case
>  C4p   Comes up with 256 Bytes of RAM >>
> 



From dcoward at pressstart.com  Fri Dec 11 17:04:58 1998
From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Oral History Questions
Message-ID: <19981211145621.90ed8b5f.in@mail.pressstart.com>

Uncle Roger  said:
>I have a chance to speak with the designers of some of the machines in my
>collection.  But other than the basic "when was it intro'd, what are the
>specs, what did it cost" stuff, what should I ask? 

My two favorite questions would be:
Do you know who currently owns the rights to the software and 
    documentation for XYZ computer?
And to the owner of those rights:
Have you ever considered releasing the rights to the public domain?


=========================================
Doug Coward	           
Press Start Inc.          
Sunnyvale,CA    
=========================================


From dogas at leading.net  Fri Dec 11 17:05:36 1998
From: dogas at leading.net (Mike)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: Looking for analog owners
Message-ID: <01be255a$c30ac5a0$e1c962cf@devlaptop>

>manufacturers, programming tips, histories, books,
>pictures of machines, etc. I know you're out there!

No analog computers, but one cool book 'Basics of Analog
Computers,Information, Experiments, and Applications' 1963, Bureau of Naval
Personnel, Navpers 92699A

- Mike: dogas@leading.net




From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 11 12:28:34 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:08 2005
Subject: what is this:  shorting plug?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19981210213248.47df0de0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 10, 98 09:32:48 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 11 12:53:38 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:09 2005
Subject: Just bought this . . .
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981210210642.00ace830@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 10, 98 10:06:55 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 11 12:57:41 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Sun Feb 27 18:39:09 2005
Subject: HX20 (was: Re: Just bought this . . .)
In-Reply-To: <36709B33.2E77BE6F@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Dec 10, 98 11:10:27 pm
Message-ID: 

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From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 11 12:34:37 1998
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Date: Su