From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 1 00:05:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <199808010249.TAA07335@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that > BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the > San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > > Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon? This is true. I heard this first hand from a contractor that I had hired to do some programming a couple years back. He wrote some software to control the signs in the BART stations. He told me a little bit about it, and I was surprised to learn they had such old beasts gainfully employed. Unfortunately, said guy turned out to be a total fricken flake/scam artist and I wouldn't call him if he was giving away a PDP/8i. So I wouldn't want to contact him to find out. However, if you want to talk to him, and you promise NOT TO MENTION THAT I REFERRED YOU, because I want to have absolutely nothing to do with this cretin ever again, you can go to his web page at http://www.tlcone.com (or .net). From there I would imagine you can e-mail him. His name is Emile Carter. He's at least personable, so he may want to talk to you about it if he's got the time, and perhaps refer you to someone at BART, but I wouldn't be surprised if he burned those bridges as well. Anyway, its a possible lead. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Aug 1 00:11:16 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody References: Message-ID: <35C2A374.89C28B5F@halcyon.com> I remember another one of these that was even better (it sounded more authentically Pournelle, a little less far-fetched, and got the parody just right. It was posted (Tim Shoppa?) to alt.folklore.computers? Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > I just had to pass this on to the list. > > http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:07:23 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <9807311319.AA24934@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35C2CCBB.FDD5F0B4@cnct.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > You'd be hard pressed to beat the price and still have it look good. > > I forget if they were $79 or $89, I got some dirty looks by climbing > > on on that was at floor level to see how stiff they were. They are. > > Heck, at the rated 1500 lbs/shelf, each $80 unit can support 5 Volkswagons... Mmmm, gotta take those cars to a place that can crush them to size, otherwise they won't fit. On the other hand, I can't think of any batch of computers that can be put on such a shelf that would weigh that much -- hell, it's hard to reach that density with 1 -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Aug 1 03:23:17 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <01bdbd25$a27bbda0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Well.... I suppose it's one form of computer you might not think of collecting... anyone collect bosch d and l jet-tronic fuel injector "computers"? They were used, among other places, in 1970s VWs to improve emissions and power. Hah! how's THAT for a tie back to topic? :) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds >Exxxactly! I guess now we can all get back to computer topics, like how to install >a terminal in a VW beetle or something > >Jim wrote: > >> Okay at the risk of serious off topic... the schwimwagon was built for service >> in World War Two by VW. It had snorkels on the exhaust and on the air intake >> for both the carb and the fan (air cooled engine) and a propeller shaft >> off the main pully and through the bumper. >> -- >> Jim Strickland >> jim@calico.litterbox.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:27:54 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: Message-ID: <35C2D18A.B7A3C967@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > Ehh. You learn to live with them. They're not so bad. Some can actually > be fun if you can maintain your senses when one starts to hit. I try to > perform odd experiments like lying on the floorto feel the waves and > stuff. Haven't been in a real one since the Landers quake in '93 or so. > > As Roger said, I'd rather have a really horrible earthquake every so many > decades than a tornado or hurricane like clockwork every year. That's it. I'd rather be back home in California where I have a stastically average chance of having to dig out rubble from an earthquake something less than once per human lifespan than here in Jersey where even in a good winter I'll have to shovel out the damned snow at least once -- but the last several years are a stastical anomaly and I'd like to be gone before things get back to normal. I'd love to move home to California, but not until the capital of the Republic is returned to San Jose. In the meantime, as soon as my father-in-law (I love him dearly but his health keeps him [and me] stuck in Jersey) is in the ground, Wyoming (with snow that makes a _bad_ winter in Jersey seem like a series of flurries) is my destination. No inconsistency, there are disasters that make earthquakes and blizzards trivial, and I'd like to get out of the way, if possible. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Aug 1 03:28:21 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? Message-ID: <199808010828.BAA11769@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 05:57 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Bruce wrote: > > Check my web page under http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin/calswap.html. I have >Weird Stuff (and most of the other Bay Area stores) listed. > >Thanks for this list and reviews. I just noticed all the places I wrote down have a 4xx street address, for example Excess Soln's in San Jose. More incentive to visit the bay area. -Dave From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Aug 1 03:29:51 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <01bdbd26$8d1df6c0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Don't know about that, but when I worked in Silicon Valley for a well known microprocessor manufacturer, one of our pieces of state of the art lithography equipment was controlled by micro pdp-11s. We had to put them on their own ethernet segment because the regular segments were so busy the PDP ethernet cards would interupt the machines to death. :) -----Original Message----- From: Seth J. Morabito To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:47 PM Subject: BART and PDP8's? >Hey folks, > >A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that >BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the >San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > >Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring >some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon? > >-Seth >-- >"It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito > You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com > From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:43:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <19980731180404.26543.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35C2D52D.ED8EBF2D@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > The experience I've had was in the apartment where I live, where it > is best to make stuff as opposed to buying it because it is difficult > to fit storebought things as efficiently. And it probably looks > better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't > know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger? Plywood outlasts damned near anything else in a strong quake, as it is reasonably flexible and has no specific direction to break. Worse is solid lumber, worse twice is prestwood (which will break in any convenient [to the quake] direction). But adequately thick plywood isn't cheap and it really sucks _except_ for equipment rack sized shelving -- bookshelves are a whole nother concept, though I have far more of them than shelves for computer gear. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 1 13:55:41 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II Message-ID: Ok, Sorry about the delay, I got busy with work and didn't get around to working on the Sun unti tonight :) I cleaned the heads with some isopropyl alcohol tonight, but to no avail, I still get the dreaded 96A0 error, I'm beginning to suspect the tapes, however it doesn't matter what tape I put in, it gives exactly the same error, so unless all 4 SunOS tapes have had it, it may be the drive. Further to the error codes, a tape with write protect off gives 86A0 error :) Thanks Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 04:10:16 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Looking for S-100 Systems References: <199807311749.NAA11437@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35C2DB78.FC758A68@cnct.com> Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > Aw crud! I didn't mean to send this to the list :) Don't fash yersel'. Yes, it does take practice to use a mailing list well. I tend to screw up (regularly) on another list where the default is to reply to the sender instead of the list. (The LIBFUT list is low volume, and when you're racing through 500 messages in the attempt to actually get _something_ like a night's sleep, it's real easy to miss what's in the "To:" line). Actually, if more lists set Sender as the default rather than Group as the recipient of any reply, more thought might be given to hitting the send button in bad moods -- I know it would help with me. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 1 15:04:47 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. Message-ID: On another point, I was lent a Wangtek 5099EN11 drive, which seems to have a QIC-36 interface (and the Sun won't talk to it), is there anyway of getting this drive to emulate a QIC-02 interface? (jumper?) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 07:53:02 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <002901bdbd4e$7b070bc0$c775fea9@mainoffice> I use the industrial "pallet racking" available from Home Depot. I think that they cost me around $50-60 per set (4 shelves), but they have a claimed capacity of 1500lbs/shelf. The shelf material is MDF (medium-density fiberboard), and is very strong. I feel very secure that these shelves would be standing long after I'm gone. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 07:55:11 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: MOS Tech. KIM-1 Manual Message-ID: <002a01bdbd4e$7be13f20$c775fea9@mainoffice> Does anyone have a copy of the "MOS Technology KIM-1 Manual" (the instruction manual that came with the KIM-1) that they would be willing to copy for me? I'd be more than willing to reimburse for copying costs. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Aug 1 08:40:37 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <008301bdbc32$84922980$db173ccb@mrmac> from "desieh" at Jul 31, 98 01:22:34 pm Message-ID: <199808011340.JAA00427@shell.monmouth.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17 > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > >< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that > >< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the > >< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > >< > >< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > >< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon > > > >THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not > >likely in the near future from what I've heard. > > > >Allison > > > > Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are still controlled > by pdp 11/43s..... > > *Desie* > > > What's an 11/43... there were 11/40, 11/45, 11/53, 11/34's -- but no 11/43's. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 08:25:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . In-Reply-To: <003101bdbc16$bef87be0$92265da6@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801082546.4e974ed4@intellistar.net> At 06:04 PM 7/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >>What is a multispeed anyway? Is it a turbo XT? How much does it >>weigh? >> It uses a NEC V-30 CPU. 8 Mhz I think. Weighs about 8 lbs. BTW I found a HD model at trift store yesterday too. They threw it in for free with another computer that I bought. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 08:51:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? In-Reply-To: References: <199807310253.WAA00392@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801085125.4e9736ba@intellistar.net> At 11:08 PM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran >> out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else >> have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than >> the one with the V20 (I doubt it)? > >Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar >parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems >getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic >measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking >up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and >customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part. Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacements for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is also faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powered laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TRS may have had to switch back to 8088s. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 09:39:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <01bdbd25$a27bbda0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801093908.2f272474@intellistar.net> At 02:23 AM 8/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >Well.... I suppose it's one form of computer you might >not think of collecting... anyone collect bosch d and l >jet-tronic fuel injector "computers"? They were used, among other places, >in 1970s VWs to improve emissions and power. Hah! how's THAT for a tie >back to topic? :) I never collected them but I used to have one in a 1970 VW. They had a poor reputation (mainly due to the ham-fisted mechanics) but they worked very well if you took care or them and made sure all the connections were clean and tight. I had it for 5 years and never had a trouble with it but I never let a mechanic touch it! I did have the manual for the system and I probably still have it somewhere. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 1 10:03:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <199808011503.AA03933@world.std.com> < On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: < < > A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet tha < > BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of th < > San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems < > < > Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring < > some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime so Below is the header for a program to do several things. A contact, it make be severely dated and verification. This was gotten off one of the PDP-8 archive sites, it was over a years ago so I've forgotton which one though I know most are still there. below the program header is further information on PDP-8s from PDP8-lovers list. Allison /***********************************************************************/ /* */ /* Program: PAL (BART version) */ /* File: pal.c */ /* Author: Gary A. Messenbrink */ /* */ /* Purpose: A 2 pass PDP-8 pal-like assembler. */ /* */ /* PAL(1) */ /* */ /* NAME */ /* pal - a PDP/8 pal-like assembler. */ /* */ /* SYNOPSIS: */ /* pal [ -d -l -p -r -x ] inputfile */ /* */ /* DESCRIPTION You can get information about the pdp8-lovers mailing list by sending an email message to pdp8-lovers-info@zach1.tiac.net or by sending email to pdp8-lovers-request@zach1.tiac.net with just the word "info" in the body. You can get the most recent version of the PDP-8 FAQ from: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/docs http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/dec-faq/top.html http://www.smartpages.com/bngfaqs/alt/sys/pdp8/top.html http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/dec-faq/.html From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 1 11:01:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13376334712.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [2.9BSD] It works fine - I play Rogue with it. Make sure to use 7E1... ------- From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sat Aug 1 11:19:19 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: FW: FS Mv2 parts In-Reply-To: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> References: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> Message-ID: <35c43fe2.316851969@smtp.wa.jps.net> Found on Usenet. If you want anything on the list, get in touch with the fellow directly. -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: mrussel1@twcny.rr.com (MikeR) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: FS Mv2 parts >>Message-ID: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> >>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 >>Lines: 9 >>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: d185cee18.twcny.rr.com >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:18:50 EDT >>Organization: TWC Road Runner >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.92.226.83!newse1.twcny.rr.com!not-for-mail >> >> >>1-Tk50 controler >>1-8 line comms card >>1-RQDX3 controler >>1-KA630 cpu card >>2-4meg memory cards >> >>Make offer on part or all cards listed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 1 11:19:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Aug 1998, Karl Maftoum wrote: > Sorry about the delay, I got busy with work and didn't get around to > working on the Sun unti tonight :) Don't let it happen again. These classic computing devices need to be fixed as quickly as possible and any delays could cause further irreparable harm, not to mention the effects on the space-time contiuum. ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 1 11:27:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <199808011627.AA09864@world.std.com> < Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacement < for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is al < faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powe < laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TR < may have had to switch back to 8088s. Intel sued and attempted to block. They would loose and V20 deliveries were never interrutped to sales to new design ins were slowed. The original V20 was Nmos like the 8088, though lower power. The cmos parts were later. Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 15:50:05 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 Message-ID: <000301bdbd8e$0f0f2b60$c775fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Another crazy project... While working on my old-DOS decompilation project, I've found that it would be handy to have some sort of ICE hardware/software to watch the boot-up sequence, examine specific registers, test code fragments, etc., without crashing my PeeCee. I've been using Debug and testing code fragments to watch changes in the registers. Can anyone point me to a GNU/shareware software-based ICE program, much like NuMega's Soft-ICE Windows, that can do this for DOS? Is it even possible to use a software-based ICE in this instance (because it's before DOS boots). How about this...how about a virtual PC running under OS/2 or Windows NT? It would have to be re-bootable (without crashing the host operating system) and support hot-key break-to-debugger. Sort of like a cross between the vMac Macintosh emulator and WDEB386 (the Windows Kernel debugger). It would be odd to emulate an 8088 on a Pentium 233MMX...hmmm...sounds like a project. Any thoughts??? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 1 16:09:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Leave Message-ID: <19980801210917.17992.qmail@hotmail.com> I am unsubscribing for about three weeks while I go away. I don't want to bounce messages all over the place ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 13:58:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 1, 98 06:55:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980801/d55bf3b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 14:22:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 1, 98 08:04:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2471 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980801/60c473b5/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Sat Aug 1 19:38:52 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: Message-ID: <35C3B51C.F0DB307B@interserv.com> > > Is there a Classic Telephony list? This thing seems to have been > constructed in the 50s. > One place to try for answers is the discussion group comp.dcom.telecom Will From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sat Aug 1 19:52:07 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: FW: RT11 Ver. 4 manuals wanted In-Reply-To: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> References: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> Message-ID: <35c3b80d.347614483@smtp.wa.jps.net> If anyone can help this guy out, please respond to him directly. Thanks. -=-=- -=-=- On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11 >>From: Dann Lunsford >>Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700 >>Subject: RT-11 V4 Manual Set >>Message-ID: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> >>X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.47 b47 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com >>X-Trace: 1 Aug 1998 15:53:10 +0700, bigphred.greycat.com >>Organization: "CalWeb Internet Services Inc. Your affordable ISP." >>Lines: 25 >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.calweb.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!calwebnntp!calwebnnrp!bigphred.greycat.com >>Xref: blushng.jps.net alt.sys.pdp11:290 vmsnet.pdp-11:359 >> >>I've reached about as far as I can with my little 11/23+ system, and I >>need help. Does anyone have a *complete* doc set for RT-11 V. 4 that >>they don't need or are thinking of throwing out? Or know someone who >>has? I would like to give it a good home, where it could feel useful >>again. All I have is fragmentary (very!) HT-11 stuff, and a couple of >>version 3 manuals. I've figured out some things by reading the source, >>and just trying things based on what the V3 stuff says (Managed to >>sysgen a new system that way), as well as excavating long buried >>memories, but that takes way too long, and is fraught with peril :-). >>Would Mentec still have the doc for V4 for sale (I know, call 'em. It's >>Saturday here, can't call till Monday.)? Somehow, I doubt it. >> >>Anyway, I'm willing to pay a reasonable price and (of course) shipping. >>If you have a set, let me know, please? Email preferred; don't wish to >>spam the froup. >> >>TIA. >> >>Dann L. >>-- >>Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil * >>dann@greycat.com * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero * >>"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >>"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 1 20:43:01 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Need info: Data I/O Tape Perforator Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980801184301.008d0100@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings all; Looking for some information on a new find. A Data I/O Tape Perforator. It's an 8 level, desktop paper tape punch with LED data display (one LED for each channel), and apparently a parallel interface of some type, altho the connector looks somewhat similar to an IEEE-488 connector. However looking at the logic board in the thing pretty much rules out a '488 interface. (not nearly enuf smarts on the board) So... I'm seeking some info on this thing, most specifically with regard to the interface. And before you ask, there is no 'model' number shown on the unit. The ID plate on the back just says "tape perforator". Looked at the Data I/O web site, and found nothing (big surprise... not!) So before I break down and call them to find that no one has any clue as to what I'm asking (sarcasm flag) about, I figured I'd try here. Any help? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 10:37:10 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Most modern drives are 90 ips. The Sidewinder comes in both versions. > There are a couple of quick ways of telling which one you have : > 1) Look at the board on the bottom of the drive itself. There's a 3 pin > header with a jumper link. It's marked 30 and 90. The meaning is obvious The drive is jumpered 90 ips. > 2) At the back of the lower board in the controller there's a link marked > '90' with a 14 pin chip that may be missing alongside it. 90 ips > controllers have the link, but the chip is not fitted. 30 ips controllers > have the link, and the chip isn't fitted (The chip is a 74LS74, wired as > a /3 counter. It divides a master clock by 3 to get the 30ips write > clock. On 90 ips drives, the chip is not fitted, and the link connects > the write clock line to the master clock). Ok, the link is fitted, and the chip immediatly to the left of the link is fitted, but is a 74LS01, the Chip just below that is NOT fitted. > If you've got a 90 ips controller, plug in the Wangtek drive and see what > happens. If not, then you'll have to start fixing the sidewinder properly. "Drive not responding" -- Would the fact that I am using an external supply have any affect here? > BTW, is the drive roller (on top of the motor spindle) in good condition? > If it's decayed (and they often do), and you've cleaned off the 'gunge', > then it'll now be too small, and the tape speed with be wrong. Worth > checking. The roller is pretty much decayed, Would any QIC-02 drive plugged in here work? Cheers karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 10:50:03 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: Hey Tony! I readjusted the bus jumpers again, and checked all connections..... > b ar() Boot: ar(0,0,0) Boot: ar(0,0,3) then it booted! Thanks, I'll tell you how I progress with SunOS installation! Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 2 01:36:09 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980801233609.00e76db0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 01:15 01-08-98 +0000, you wrote: > A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to >find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. > It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC >ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time Ah. I recognize it. That's an SC400 QIC-02 controller. It should be able to support just about any QIC-02 drive (not limited to those made by Archive). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sun Aug 2 01:38:28 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: FW: DEC 3100/m38 FS: In-Reply-To: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> References: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> Message-ID: <35c40921.368370298@smtp.wa.jps.net> OK... if you want a -really- basic 3100/M38, get in contact with this guy. I think he may be disappointed when he finds out what the boxes are worth in the real world. -=-=- -=-=- On 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: meozzy@aol.com (MeOzzy) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: DEC 3100/m38 FS: >>Lines: 11 >>Message-ID: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news@aol.com >>Date: 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.14.7.19!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>FS: Dec 3100/M38 No hard, keyboards or mouse, >> >>MAKE OFFER >> >>QTY : 5 >> >> >>Richard >> >>Email only!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:00:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 1, 98 01:15:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/249d19ee/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:12:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 03:37:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/ece3b8cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:13:45 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 03:50:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/7ac4e5d6/attachment.ksh From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 17:38:59 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Excellent!. Which drive is this ? the Wangtek, I assume, not the > sidewinder. The Sidewinder's controller must be good, therefore. The Wangtek :) > OK, now you need to fix the Sidewinder. I think we can discount an electronic > problem for the moment. Time to repair that drive roller, I guess... Ok, what diameter is it supposed to be? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 08:30:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 10:38:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/144ecf40/attachment.ksh From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 2 09:16:42 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <199808011340.JAA00427@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000001bdbe20$2c652920$e5173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bill/Carolyn > Pechter > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 1998 11:41 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allison J Parent > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17 > > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > > > > > >< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on > Usenet that > > >< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around > some of the > > >< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by > pdp8/e systems. > > >< > > >< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > > >< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system > sometime soon > > > > > >THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not > > >likely in the near future from what I've heard. > > > > > >Allison > > > > > > > Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are > still controlled > > by pdp 11/43s..... > > > > *Desie* > > > > > > > > > What's an 11/43... there were 11/40, 11/45, 11/53, 11/34's -- but > no 11/43's. > > Bill > > +----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------+ > | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | > pechter@shell.monmouth.com | > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in | > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > | > +----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------+ > Sorry my mistake, i should read me emails before hitting that send button... i meant 11/45:) *Desie* From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 2 10:05:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: PS/2 Items FS Message-ID: <35C48024.4894099C@bbtel.com> I have for sale (or trade in some cases) the following items which may be of interest to those looking for a second machine, a utility machine, or just something cheap to tinker with... *PS/2 Model 30 (2 floppy unit, no HDD)- 8088 mani unit/no ram - $15 + shipping *PS/2 Model 30's - 8088 main unit/no ram - $20 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 30-286's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 50Z's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 55SX's - 386SX main unit/no ram - $30 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 56SLC's - 486 main unit/no ram - $120 each + shipping (SCSI drive) *PS/2 Model 57SLC (1 only) - 486 main unit/no ram - $150 + shipping (SCSI drive) *PS/2 Model 65's - 386SX tower unit/no ram-$45 each + shipping (some SCSI types) *PS/2 Model 80's - 386DX tower unit/no ram-$50 each + shipping (some SCSI types) *IBM 5150 "PC" and 5160 "XT'" - inquire. Available w or w/o monitor or keyboard *IBM 5170 "AT"'s - 286 workhorse main unit, contents vary - inquire Above are case, power supply, motherbd, floppy, hard drive, applicable controller(s) in great shape but without memory. Memory will be obtained by buyer or available with unit for a little more. All have built in VGA video, serial, parallel, mouse and keyboard ports. Hard drive sizes vary. All are tested and in great physical and electronic condition. Also available: *PS/2 Model 55SX motherboards - complete/no ram - $10 each + shipping *MCA 16/4 token ring cards - long and short - $5 each or 3 for $10 (plus shipping) *MCA 3270 adapters BNC type - long and short - 5 for $10 plus shipping *Cases for many IBM machines, power suppiles, etc. drop a note with your needs Many other parts, cards and items for IBM and other brand machines. Discounts may apply to multiple purchases, mixed or same. Please inquire. Shipping is generally by USPS parcel post but UPS may be used upon request. Payment by cashier's check or money order, no personal checks please. COD only with prior approval and incurs additionl COD charges. Info on each model's specs and pictures can be obtained at http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 2 19:06:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives Message-ID: I finally got back to working on my PDP-11/44, and finished cleaning it up yesterday. So now I'm ready to start testing stuff. Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drives in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do they have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in them before they will show any signs of life? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 2 18:09:35 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: <199808022309.TAA01334@shell.monmouth.com> > Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drives > in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do they > have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in them > before they will show any signs of life? > They need the serial port connection to do anything. Boot dd0 should get the light lit even without a tape in. (I think... it's been 10 years since I booted an 11 with TU58's) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 2 19:12:31 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: OT: Alphastation 200 4/233 Message-ID: I realize this is off topic, but in case anyone is interested www.onsale.com is selling these for $349.00 of course the one I just got came to $386.46 when you add in shipping. They've got a 1.44Mb floppy, 16Mb of RAM, 2Mb video card, 233Mhz processor and some other things. It doesn't sound like they've got a hard drive, keyboard, or mouse, adn there is no monitor. Still I gather it's a fairly good price, and a bunch of people in the DEC newsgroups are picking them up (I gather they still have about 25 to sell). The best part is this model is supposedly able to run OpenVMS (Alpha), WinNT, Linux, and DEC Unix. Now all I've got to do is save up for a copy of OpenVMS for the Alpha :^) On the downside RAM looks to be spendy for these suckers. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 2 18:13:33 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > OK, now you need to fix the Sidewinder. I think we can discount an electronic > > > problem for the moment. Time to repair that drive roller, I guess... > > > > Ok, what diameter is it supposed to be? > > Pester me in a few days, and I'll measure the roller in my Sidewinder. > Quite how you make a replacement is another matter.... > > > > > Cheers > > Karl > > -tony > A year or so ago, I made up a replacement 'tire' (tyre for you, Tony) for a drive in an old Televideo TS816 from a rubber grommet. Fortunately, the spindle was about .25" and the groove diameter of the grommet was slightly larger than the diameter that the tire needed to be. I was able to cut and sand it down to the desired diameter and cement it onto the spindle. Worked like a champ! When I did it, I used a lathe to spin a rod on which the grommet was mounted, but an electric drill would probably work as well. - don From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 2 19:26:11 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: <9808022326.AA15354@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/d4fcc5cf/attachment.ksh From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sun Aug 2 18:35:01 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808022335.TAA20939@dgs.cs.unc.edu> On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, I wrote ] Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be ] at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, ] for the cost of postage. ] ...blah, blah, blah... To which there were several replies... ...................................................................... Tim Shoppa wrote: ] > ... The consensus seems to be that they need some associated ] > equipment to do the dialing. ] ] The "associated equipment" is nothing more than a regular phone. ] ... Can you tell me how to do that? An earlier reply (from Bill Pechter?) said I needed a "dataphone", and would dial with that and then press a "data" switch. I have neither a dataphone nor a data switch... I did try mucking around with the "talk" switch and an ordinary telephone, but couldn't get any interesting behavior out of them. (Ie: I connected the "telco" socket on the modem to the phone line from the wall, and then the telephone into "telset" on the modem. I also tried connecting both the modem and the telephone to the wall via a "Y" adapter. Did I miss some obvious thing? I don't now remember which setup gave what results, but in the cases when I could actually dial out and get a carrier, I couldn't get the modem to do anything about it.) ...................................................................... Russ Blakeman wrote: ] > ... None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a ... ] have you tried thr Racal Vadic command set, and do they have to be AT ] command compatible? I have a box stashed out in the storage building with ] a bunch of old modems, 300/1200/2400 types and all externals. I'll have ] to dig fo them this weekend (along with the Commie stuff I was supposed ] to get last weekend) and see what there is and let you know. What exactly ] are you planing to do with the modems and what speed do you need? I've never even heard of the Racal Vadic command set, although I do recognize the name as an old modem manufacturer. Hints would be welcome. I don't have any real need for these modems, except that they are old computer stuff, and were on their way to a land fill. I snagged 'em mainly thinking that somebody on this list might be interested in them. I could easily picture them on a shelf next to a Vax, happily chugging away. (And for that purpose, I might hang onto one of them for myself. But that leaves three taking up floor space.) ] > Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with... ] Almost sounds like a multiplexer unit.....someone has a boat without an ] anchor out there. :-) Well, one man's anchor is another man's treasure, right? We aren't hanging around on this list because we only like the fastest compustuff. Anybody with a basement full of old computers might very well want some old networking stuff to glue them together with. As for me, I don't even have a basement. But I am off to a good start; I have stuff to populate one. ...................................................................... Jack Peacock wrote: ] Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril. ] From my experience with Penril modem the best thing you can do is send ] them to the dumpster. ... What, no warm fuzzy nostagic feelings for these? :-) How about this, slap a 56K modem inside the shell, maybe even wire up the front-panel LEDs appropriately, and amaze your friends. It all depends on what kind of thrill you're after. ...................................................................... BTW, if I come across more junk like this, should I continue to post it here, or should I just list it on that web page and assume that interested parties will find it? Cheers, Bill. From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:07:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808022335.TAA20939@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: > Well, one man's anchor is another man's treasure, right? We aren't > hanging around on this list because we only like the fastest compustuff. > Anybody with a basement full of old computers might very well want some > old networking stuff to glue them together with. I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite suprising. Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond ethernet/token thing cards? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:21:43 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. Message-ID: I finally took a good look at that new PDP-11/23 I purchased some time ago. It seems to have some normal looking DEC cards in it (LSI-11/2, others). It does, however, have an interesting looking card set from Associated Computer Consultants, called "MDMA" (as far as I can tell). It appears to be from the mid-1980s. One card contains some sort of engine, with ROMs and (4) 2901s. The other card contains a bunch of glue and interface stuff, and has a connection to a big round military type connector (the modern versions of the Cannon connector) on the back panel of the chassis marked "IMP". Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? All I have is the processor - no drives or OS, so I can not tell much if I power it up. William Donzelli william@ans.net From scottk5 at ibm.net Sun Aug 2 19:23:59 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher References: Message-ID: <35C5031F.71A8@ibm.net> William Donzelli wrote: > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net Well, I'm not sure that it's "classic" but I have an old ARCnet setup (active hub, various cards for ISA and MCA bus, parallel port ARCnet adapters) that I like to pull out and mess with on occasion; and I have all the software to set up a classic "IBM PC Lan" network on a couple of PC's, but have never been able to finalize any deals on the proprietary IBM lan cards required (hint, hint....if anybody has any!!). Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:30:51 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the > U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have > been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? All I had to do was look... William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 2 19:33:40 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a > rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, > switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s I don't shun it. I think the problem is identifying just what the hell all these random CSUs, modems, MUXes, etc. are. So even if you could identify it, then what? Another problem is finding any documentation for this stuff to put it back to good use. If you did know what you were looking at (I can't even identify most of the communcations equipment out there its so old) then maybe you'd have a chance. But your garden variety collector/preservationist wouldn't know the first thing about the stuff. > are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > suprising. That would be great. However, if the simplest ethernet (coax) is 10Mbps, why settle for 1.544Mbps and the hassle to bring such a link online, not to mention its interface limitations? > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? I collect older datacom equipment such as modems when I find them, but generally skip over the CSU/DSUs and MUXes as uninteresing. BTW, there is a non-profit organization (musuem) that preserves old datacom equipment. I wish I had the web page on hand, but they are located in Fallbrook, California. I'm considering donating my AT&T Horizon key system to them. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Aug 2 19:53:20 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. References: Message-ID: <35C50A00.E308F16C@halcyon.com> Here is a snippet I recently posted on comp.sys.dec.micro and a few other newsgroups asking for identification: 1) 2 dual-height boards, connected by 40-conductor cable a) board 1: labelled ACC MDMA 6800043 contains 4 AM2901PC bit-sliced processors 11 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) 1 bank of wire-wrap jumpers b) board 2: labelled ACC X0/1822 6800044 4 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) 5 LEDs 1 26-pin external connector 3 banks of wire-wrap jumpers Nobody responed. Thanks for answering my question! Want some more cards? Dave P.S. I suspect that these were also a part of the same system: 2) dual-height board Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Interface P/N 40020019 Rev 02 contains 28-pin external connector 3) dual-height board Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Transporter Omninet P/N 8169 contains 3-pin external connector LED 8-position DIP switch 4) dual-height board (2 each) Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Transporter Omninet P/N 8010-08032 contains 3-pin external connector LED 8-position DIP switch William Donzelli wrote: > > I finally took a good look at that new PDP-11/23 I purchased some time > ago. It seems to have some normal looking DEC cards in it (LSI-11/2, > others). It does, however, have an interesting looking card set from > Associated Computer Consultants, called "MDMA" (as far as I can tell). It > appears to be from the mid-1980s. One card contains some sort of engine, > with ROMs and (4) 2901s. The other card contains a bunch of glue and > interface stuff, and has a connection to a big round military type > connector (the modern versions of the Cannon connector) on the back panel > of the chassis marked "IMP". > > Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the > U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have > been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? > > All I have is the processor - no drives or OS, so I can not tell much if I > power it up. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:14:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 895 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/a7b89966/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:24:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 2, 98 08:07:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/15d7d51c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:31:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 2, 98 04:13:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/4530cafc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 20:25:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 2, 98 05:33:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/4ca74820/attachment.ksh From deker at digitaladdiction.com Sun Aug 2 20:34:37 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: ADDS Mentor M2000? Message-ID: I've got one of these machines in a closet downstairs. It has a QIC tape drive, a bunch of DB9 serial ports, and a bunch of Z80 processors. Does anybody here know anything about these boxes? thanks rob From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 2 20:57:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives Message-ID: <199808030157.AA00324@world.std.com> < Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drive < in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do t < have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in the < before they will show any signs of life? One thing to check first. Has the drive roller turned to goo? the tend to age badly and turn into a sticky mess. I have a fix however. If that is ok with the cover off whatch the action of the led on the controller board. If show activity all is good. generally, if the drive roller is good you can count on the rest. Allison From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 2 21:17:28 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <9807312103.AA11030@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be > > at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, Hehe, yup, gotta agree there. While many classic computers interest me, a slow old modem is just a slow old waste of my time. What is the difference? The old computers we like seem to have some "personality" as do many of their peripherials. But to me modems are only as good as their price tag and speed. (and despite my 32 year tag, I've spent many an hour on 300bps acoustics) -wayne From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 21:37:09 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't shun it. I think the problem is identifying just what the hell > all these random CSUs, modems, MUXes, etc. are. So even if you could > identify it, then what? Another problem is finding any documentation for > this stuff to put it back to good use. If you did know what you were > looking at (I can't even identify most of the communcations equipment out > there its so old) then maybe you'd have a chance. But your garden variety > collector/preservationist wouldn't know the first thing about the stuff. I would think that most of the old standards are floating around on the net these days, probably at .edu sites. Most of the boxes have some brains to them, so many times you will not be confronted by a bunch of unmarked/confusing controls. From there, fiddle until the alarms go away. As for fixing datacom equipment, there may be no need. The stuff tends to be built very well - far better than most industrial stuff, and magnitudes better than the comsumer stuff. 100% service, 24 by 7 by 365! Now I am not saying that the stuff NEVER breaks... > That would be great. However, if the simplest ethernet (coax) is 10Mbps, > why settle for 1.544Mbps and the hassle to bring such a link online, not > to mention its interface limitations? Put a few boxes on a 10base2 segment, start them all talking, and you will see that 10 Mbps go away fast. Have a CSU/router on each end and you will use just about every bit in that 1.544 Mbps. Anyway, what is hard about getting a back to back T1 up? B8ZS is your friend. > I collect older datacom equipment such as modems when I find them, but > generally skip over the CSU/DSUs and MUXes as uninteresing. BTW, there is > a non-profit organization (musuem) that preserves old datacom equipment. RCS/RI tends to get all of the datacom scrap from the former ANSnet. Our stack of Cylinks is growing at an alarming rate. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 21:50:51 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: <35C50A00.E308F16C@halcyon.com> Message-ID: > 1) 2 dual-height boards, connected by 40-conductor cable > a) board 1: labelled ACC MDMA 6800043 > contains 4 AM2901PC bit-sliced processors > 11 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) > 1 bank of wire-wrap jumpers > b) board 2: labelled ACC X0/1822 6800044 > 4 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) > 5 LEDs > 1 26-pin external connector > 3 banks of wire-wrap jumpers Exactly! > Nobody responed. Thanks for answering my question! Want some more > cards? Donate them to RCS/RI! > P.S. I suspect that these were also a part of the same system: From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 2 21:52:06 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808030252.AA02466@world.std.com> >I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a >rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, >switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s >are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the >house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite >suprising. > >Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond >ethernet/token thing cards? I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered 'classic', but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From poesie at geocities.com Sun Aug 2 21:50:53 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... Message-ID: <35C5258D.3795@geocities.com> I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores, but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a regular basis? all suggestions welcomed. -Eric From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 2 22:11:31 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... Message-ID: <199808030314.XAA04622@gate.usaor.net> I've seen them in computer magazines (Computer Shopper) for $15-20. You may also be able to try a computer show. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Poesie > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... > Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 10:50 PM > > I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to > how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to > standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the > pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores, > but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a > regular basis? all suggestions welcomed. > > -Eric > > From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 22:16:10 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808030252.AA02466@world.std.com> Message-ID: > I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered > 'classic', There are lots of old networking standards from the years prior to 1988 (or even 1978), for both LANs and WANs. You have 56K, T1 (fractional or whole), V.35, ARCnet, token thing, FDDI... > but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. FDDI, the _real_ networking standard! I will run a few FDDI lines between the house and garage some day, but I will have to bury a conduit first to encase them. With approriate routing cards, I may be able to get 3 lines between the RS/6000s on either end, but that might be stretching it. Two is quite possible. Anyway, that would be one helluva pipe! William Donzelli william@ans.net From Imparch at eisa.net.au Sun Aug 2 23:28:49 1998 From: Imparch at eisa.net.au (Michael Blumenthal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: atari800xl Message-ID: <199808030419.OAA09671@mail.eisa.net.au> ATARI800XL + disk & tape drives + printers + software available in Melbourne, Australia From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 3 00:35:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <35C0B9A6.8A4647FA@polygon.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > 2. 7 (count 'em, 7) Wang systems. I'll have model numbers &such tomorrow > (something along the lines of PC-02). Hark! Do they look like the machine at: http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/Wang/PC-002.html > Only three monitors, only one keyboard. What do the monitors look like? What kind of connectors? Do your machines have a board labeled 'IBM Mono Emulator'? > Two 5 1/4 flopies per, no software. Any help would be a start. > Most have Network cards of some kind - is this ethernet? Each has two > BNC connecters. Almost looks like a daisy-chain system of some kind. I'd like to know what those 'network' cards are for, too. > J. Buck Caldwell Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 00:37:01 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > A year or so ago, I made up a replacement 'tire' (tyre for you, Tony) for > > a drive in an old Televideo TS816 from a rubber grommet. Fortunately, > > the spindle was about .25" and the groove diameter of the grommet was > > slightly larger than the diameter that the tire needed to be. I was able > > to cut and sand it down to the desired diameter and cement it onto the > > Actually iso-cyano acrylic hydro-copolymerising adhesive (superglue in > the UK) is very good at sticking rubber. You can make quite good O-rings, > and even drive belts by cutting a length of rubber cord and gluing the > ends together. > > So you might have been able to cut a piece radially out of the grommet > and glue the edges together. > > > spindle. Worked like a champ! When I did it, I used a lathe to spin a > > rod on which the grommet was mounted, but an electric drill would > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > is you need to take a very light cut... With a very sharp cutting tool! > As a kludge, and to ensure it is concentric with the spindle, why not use > the drive motor ? Put the oversize tyre on the spindle, get the motor > turning (a knowledge of how the drive operates, and the interface > signals, helps), and take a light cut over the surface with a sharp knife > blade. Rather dependent upon the drive. In many, the tyre is rather inaccesible, and then there is the risk of jamming things up with rubber dust/shavings. - don > -tony > > From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 00:48:30 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 2, 98 11:16:10 pm Message-ID: <199808030548.BAA22318@user2.infinet.com> William Donzelli (william@ans.net) writes: > > I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered > > 'classic', > > There are lots of old networking standards from the years prior to 1988 > (or even 1978), for both LANs and WANs. You have 56K, T1 (fractional or > whole), V.35, ARCnet, token thing, FDDI... As I've mentioned elsewhere on this list, I used to make bisync and sdlc interface cards for PDP-11's and VAXen. They replaced the "HASPBOX" in 1982 (the HASPBOX was a PDP-11/04 or PDP-11/03 with 100% DEC boards that plugged into a unibus machine via DR11C and ran a custom communications package). It used a 68000 and between 32K and 2M of RAM (depending on the model) with a parallel port (Dataproducts, not Centronics) and a sync serial port (COM5025 UART or Z8530 SCC). It ran beteen 2400 baud to 64Kb (in Europe, 56Kb in the US). At that company, we didn't have Ethernet to link our machines. We used COMBOARD(R) to link VAXen for file transfers, and DMF-32/DMR11 and sync modem eliminators to link them for DECnet remote logins and such. The COMBOARDs were much lighter on the CPU, but were not useful for transparent kinds of I/O. You had to run (external) commands like SEND and RJEOPR to manipulate the files. Just for kicks (since I legally retain the copyrights of my former employer), I did an Altavista search for "RJEOPR" and the like and dug up a web page from a university that had put their VMS help files on the Web. Part of our installation procedure was to optionally mangle your help files to insert pages for our custom commands (back in the VMS3/4 days, before the advent of combination logicals to point to several directories simultaneously a-la SYS$MANAGER). The complete text of our help messages are up on the Web. While technically a copyright violation, I'm not concerned about protecting 15-year-old help files, if DEC/Compaq isn't concerned about same. Posting *source* is right out! But anyway, Yes, Virginia, there were networks before Ethernet. Not as fast, but viable over inter-state distances. > > but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. > > FDDI, the _real_ networking standard! > > I will run a few FDDI lines between the house and garage some day, but I > will have to bury a conduit first to encase them. With approriate > routing cards, I may be able to get 3 lines between the RS/6000s on either > end, but that might be stretching it. Two is quite possible. Anyway, that > would be one helluva pipe! At McMurdo Station, Antarctica, we have a station-wide FDDI ring linking the larger work centers. It's well over 1Km long, and is a very stable way of routing multiple Ethernets through dozens of buildings. It's been so stable that more than once, it escaped the attention of the network engineer that the ring was broken and wrapping, until he happened to make a visual inspection of a router that happened to be in my office, and noticed a particular light was on, indication this dangerous condition. (For the FDDI-impaired, FDDI is a token-style network with an A ring and a B ring, that can withstand one break, and "wrap" from end to end, like turning a circle into a horseshoe. This impairs efficiency, but not basic functionality, until a second break occurs, dividing your network into two independent segments. This Is Bad. It's important to nip that in the bud and restore the ring nature of the network before traffic or additional failures cause headaches). -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 01:26:50 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 3, 98 01:24:00 am Message-ID: <199808030626.CAA22607@user2.infinet.com> tony writes: > > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > > ethernet/token thing cards? > > Does anyone else remember the 'York Box'. This was an interface between > either an async RS232 port or a DR11-like parallel port and an X25 line. > It was built from standard DEC modules (SBC21 + 64Kbyte Q-bus RAM card + > DRV11 + DPV11) in a BA11-V cabinet. They were used on the UK JANET > network to link VAXen (on the DR11 port) and just about anything else (on > the RS232 port - I don't remember the York Box specifically, but I remember JANET from my DECUS days. The York sounds just like an X.25 version of the HASPBOX with more modern cards (the HASPBOX dates from 1977 to 1982). It was an 11/03 (KD-11A?) or 11/23 (KDF-11) or 11/04, depending on exact vintage, with RAM and a DPV11 or similar (COM5025 UART), again, depending on vintage, all running a custom monolithic I/O front-end program that was downloaded once per phone call, and handled retransmission of flawed packets and routing to a local printer port, all without distubing the host PDP-11. It was a great boon the RSTS adminstrators to offload print jobs from the IBM mainframe. The pre-RSTS v8 print spooler ate gobs of CPU (later versions did as well, I suspect, but by then, there were more cycles to go around). The application software on the PDP-11 host saw a perfect data stream, blocked to 512 bytes per block, DMAed into memory, ready to chew on. Very efficient. A funny side note, when HASPBOX was replaced by COMBOARD(R), a 68000-based, single-board descendent, the serial I/O board often had more horsepower than the PDP-11 or VAX it went into (an 8Mhz 68K is rated at a nominal .6 MIPS, which compares favorably to a VAX 11/750 at .6 VUPs) It could be termed an I/O coprocessor at that level. Second funny side note: the original HASPBOX code, in PDP-11 MACRO, was converted to 68K assembler by TECO macros. the macros did over 90% of the work, humans did a quick desk check and fired it up. It was an amazingly clean migration, and a testement to how much the Motorola designers borrowed from DEC in terms of processor philosophy. Both CPUs rank up there in my top 5 to program (the 6502 and 1802 all competing for number one). 80x6 assembler sucks, in case anyone cares to hear. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 02:42:40 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 In-Reply-To: <000301bdbd8e$0f0f2b60$c775fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 1, 98 04:50:05 pm Message-ID: <199808030742.DAA23153@user2.infinet.com> > > Hello, all: > > Another crazy project... > > While working on my old-DOS decompilation project, I've found that it > would be handy to have some sort of ICE hardware/software to watch the > boot-up sequence, examine specific registers, test code fragments, etc.... > How about this...how about a virtual PC running under OS/2 or Windows > NT? ... How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the features your schedule permits. Presumably you can tell it you want an 8088 vs something newer, but I don't know that for certain. I haven't used it since 1996, so I can't comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 04:34:48 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: PS/2 Items FS In-Reply-To: <35C48024.4894099C@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 2, 98 10:05:09 am Message-ID: <199808030934.FAA24048@user2.infinet.com> > > I have for sale (or trade in some cases) the following items which may > be of interest to those looking for a second machine, a utility machine, > or just something cheap to tinker with... > > *PS/2 Model 30 (2 floppy unit, no HDD)- 8088 mani unit/no ram - $15 + > shipping > *PS/2 Model 30's - 8088 main unit/no ram - $20 each + shipping > *PS/2 Model 30-286's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping If these use 256Kx9 30-pin SIMMs, I have plenty to spare. I have speeds from 80 to 150 ns. If need be, I can crack open my working PS/2 Model 30 and see what's in there right now. ISTR two 30-pin sockets and that's all. No, I don't want another PS/2. No, I don't want to get rid of the one I've got (former employer's data and records saved from the dumpster when the business went under - my old W-2's are in there!) Besides, I stuck an NE1000 in there; it's on my network (using Kermit's built-in TCP/IP) Make offer on RAM. Offer must exceed cost of postage. ;-) Unreasonable offers refused. -ethan From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Aug 3 05:33:10 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: >> Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be >> at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, >> for the cost of postage. just a thought, but were these modems ever designed to connect to a public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or whatever... cheers Jules From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 08:11:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: <199808031311.AA10932@world.std.com> < > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my gues < > is you need to take a very light cut... < < With a very sharp cutting tool! You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubber part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will be concentric and gives a smooth surface. the alternate is to spin the tire and work against a hard surfaced abrasive board. < > As a kludge, and to ensure it is concentric with the spindle, why not < > the drive motor ? Put the oversize tyre on the spindle, get the motor < > turning (a knowledge of how the drive operates, and the interface < > signals, helps), and take a light cut over the surface with a sharp kn < > blade. disconnect the motor and power it from a supply rather than risk cooking the drive electronics. < Rather dependent upon the drive. In many, the tyre is rather < inaccesible, and then there is the risk of jamming things up with rubber < dust/shavings. that is an issue too. the solution is to demount the moter and work off drive. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 3 08:12:59 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Zenith time manager software FS Message-ID: <35C5B75A.B3996940@bbtel.com> I have an unused and unregistered copy, complete, of Zenith Data Systems/Heath Company's "Breakthrough Timeline" which appears to be a timeline creator/project manager. It has the original box, manuals, key template, registration certificate and the original 5.25" 360k floppies (still in the envelope). From scanning the manual it's roughly 1986/87 vintage and should run on most any machine from 8086/8088 up through our present array of hardware. Really good condition visually too, might be good as part of a collection. Need $12 for it which includes mailing in the 48 CONUS states. First come, first serve. Email me direct for info. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 3 10:55:45 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: CBM B500 Message-ID: <199808031340.PAA24418@marina.fth.sbs.de> Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line was introducted in 1983. Any Info would be usefull. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 3 11:40:38 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 3, 98 01:14:01 am Message-ID: <9808031540.AA00746@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/7bdb2dab/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 3 10:50:52 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: <9808031540.AA00746@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 3, 98 08:40:38 am Message-ID: <199808031550.LAA18682@shell.monmouth.com> > > > Define 'signs of life' :-). They don't spin the motors or light the LEDs > > on the front panel at switch-on, but there's an LED inside, on the > > controller board, that should flash once (I can't remember if it's > > on-off-on or off-on-off) at switch on. Remove the front part of the > > baseplate to see it. It's the only LED on the controller board. > > It's on for about 100ms, off for about 300ms, then back on. > > Incidentally, I just ordered a half dozen TU58-K cartridges for a > customer who is (eventually) going to get upgraded from a VT103 with > dual TU58's to an Andromeda desktop Q-bus box with a Mentec M100 PDP-11 > compatible CPU. US$33 each from DECDirect (1-800-Digital) - the > most I've ever paid for 256 kbytes of storage! A couple of years > ago the price was closer to US$24 each. > > Their prices on RX50-K's were the cheapest I've ever seen, though: > US$9 for a box of ten. > > Tim. > What's going to happen with the VT103's... 8-) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 3 10:45:35 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> At 06:19 PM 7/31/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >I just had to pass this on to the list. >http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html The parody mentions his kids - week before last, I bumped into Alex Pournelle walking around in one of the computer history exhibits (where one of my Teraks was on display) at the ACM SIGGRAPH computer graphics convention in Orlando. For many years while I was working as a freelance writer, I'd see Jerry in person at press events at computer shows, and I knew many of his assistants / toadies. Ugh. It was frightening what he was given, and how little time he spent with it, and how little he understood it. Alex has certainly inherited or adopted many of his father's traits, including the condescending dismissal and endless bumming of software and hardware. He and another writer are working on a WinNT "studio" book, and are gathering all the 3D and video stuff they can find - but of course, many writers do all that. Where does it all go? It depends. The more pricey the toy, the less likely someone gets to keep it forever. Software often has no value on this spectrum, and stays in the hands of the reviewer, who might keep it or even resell it. (I was once appalled by the brisk cash gathered by a "reviewer" of books for a newsletter for librarians, who'd turn a bagful of new books into cash each week at the nearest used book store, after dismissing each with barely a paragraph "review".) For someone of Poor-Nelly-ian magnitude, you've ultimately got to *hire* someone to be in charge of returning and donating all the stuff that arrives. Keep in mind, a great deal arrives unsolicited. I note that the parody was written by Ed DeJesus, an actual editor at Byte, who oversaw my first and last Byte article (see . I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 11:49:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > just a thought, but were these modems ever designed to connect to a > public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be > designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's > what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or > whatever... Line voltages would not (and could not) differ unless it was some short haul modem. The higher layer protocols might though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 3 11:54:24 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:07:57 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli wrote: > I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a > rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, > switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s > are becoming turtle highways. Some thoughts: With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of course you never find both together. (What is the sound of one statmux clapping?) Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting proposition. Some of us probably worked with this stuff back in the days when it was new (1983-1989 in my case). "Fun" is not the adjective that comes to my mind. > How about running a T1 line between the > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > suprising. Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? I know that we used to have a fiber run under the parking lot at the office, and Ethernet-fiber bridge things at the ends (two buildings w/parking lot between). > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? Not a lot, and mostly not by intent. Recently I got an HP9000/220U with some extra boxes that I believe are a CSU and some flavor of mux. No, it's not at all clear to me why they were piled together into one lot; the 9000 didn't have the right sorts of I/O for this. -Frank McConnell From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 12:10:08 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of > course you never find both together. (What is the sound of one statmux > clapping?) Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! > Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to > the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs > expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting > two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting > proposition. Lots of the stuff I have seen allows a user to insert an external clock - this can be handy for testing in the real world. Providing the clock is no big deal. Sure, it would be nice to get a dead-on clock for a T1, but as long as you keep the circuit private, the clock can be fairly sloppy. > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? Yes, some people on this list get connected this way (T1s that run a whole 20 feet, CSU to CSU, with no frame in between). A horrible kludge in a production environment, in my opinion, but it worked for quite a few years. Recently someone at ANS suggested that we use a T3 the same way, but he ended up being tarred and feathered. > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? Differences as in losses due to the long run? That is what the Line Build Out option is for (on most CSUs). T1s, with thier twisted pair, differential design, tend to be pretty tough. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 12:11:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 3 Aug 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Some of us probably worked with this stuff back in the days when it > was new (1983-1989 in my case). "Fun" is not the adjective that comes > to my mind. Yep. > > How about running a T1 line between the > > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > > suprising. > > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? Yes. Perhaps a couple hundred feet? > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? Shouldn't be. But you can find NIUs (or rip them out of the phone room of your office building when no one's looking) that would provide the proper conditioning and balance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 13:01:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 3, 98 01:10:08 pm Message-ID: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> > > > With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of > > course you never find both together. What you sometimes find is a rack from one end of a connection with more than one of the same item. They had bnever been connected to each other in their former life, but that's easy to fix. > > (What is the sound of one statmux clapping?) LOL! Shouldn't that be one statmux muxing? > Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! And another, and another... > > Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to > > the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs > > expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting > > two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting > > proposition. When I worked with sync comms, the hardest thing to simulate was the POTS lines. We eventually built a product that never sold (but got lots of in-house use) that simulated a C.O., down to line faults like one-way connections and the like. For RS-232/V.35 connections, we had shelves filled with Black Box modem eliminators and a DB-25 patch panel. You plug two DTEs in, and voila, they talk at whatever baud rate you strap the M.E. to. We even made an inline M.E. for a few years with a 5.0688MHz Xtal and a COM8046 baud rate generator. I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and slow. My goal has always been the opposite - find a way to use the newest networking possible with the older equipment. Beyond bringing Ethernet to PC-XTs, it's been a while since I had a success story. -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 13:07:03 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 3, 9:11) References: <199808031311.AA10932@world.std.com> Message-ID: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 3, 9:11, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: Oh heck it booted > > < > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my gues > < > is you need to take a very light cut... > < > < With a very sharp cutting tool! > > You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubber > part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will be > concentric and gives a smooth surface. In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly lubricated with glycerine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 13:24:17 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) ^^^^ ^^^^^ > mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly > lubricated with glycerine. > I wonder if the younger generations know about those things? - don From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 13:39:46 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > > Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! > > And another, and another... Well, I suppose then I am lucky, in that I have more Cylink T1 boxes than I can shake a stick at. GDC 56Ks (eeeewww!) as well... > I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic > networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and > slow. Hmmmm...big, old, and slow, you say. Sounds like many PDP-11s and VAXen I know! > My goal has always been the opposite - find a way to use the newest > networking possible with the older equipment. Beyond bringing Ethernet > to PC-XTs, it's been a while since I had a success story. I tend to see it at the junkyards alot. Ciscos (GS class machines) tend to get pulled out before the scrappers get to the stuff, as they are still very capable boxes. The same applies to Wellfleets. William Donzelli william@ans.net From archive at navix.net Mon Aug 3 15:36:22 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Old APF Imagination Machine wanted] Message-ID: <35C61F45.FFC99CFA@navix.net> I'm forwarding this message from another classic computer list I'm on.... I figured you folks may be able to help him out a little more. Please reply to him personally at his e-mail address given at the far bottom.... Thanks, CORD -- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Larry Greenfield Subject: Old computder wanted Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:58:09 GMT Size: 4346 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/be761960/attachment.mht From pryor at wi.net Mon Aug 3 13:47:31 1998 From: pryor at wi.net (James Pryor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: PC-68K Message-ID: <35C605C3.555483DD@wi.net> I have 2 of these XT bus boards, plus a PC-68K MMIO daughterboard. They are copyright 1985/1986 by N.J. Costanzo & TLM Systems, Inc. 1-meg on-board, smartwatch, no cpu or roms Can anyone provide additional information re: original use, availability of roms, system software? Any information appreciated. Jim From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 3 13:20:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> At 02:01 PM 8/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >When I worked with sync comms, the hardest thing to simulate was the POTS >lines. We eventually built a product that never sold (but got lots of >in-house use) that simulated a C.O., down to line faults like one-way >connections and the like. I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a POTS network and using now-free modems to send small amounts of data between them and to a central computer... but I'd never seen a reference to doing this in FAQs on the net. I'd assumed that was because it was too easy, not too hard. - John From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 3 13:55:08 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199808031855.LAA23700@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli wrote: > Lots of the stuff I have seen allows a user to insert an external clock - > this can be handy for testing in the real world. Providing the clock is no > big deal. Sure, it would be nice to get a dead-on clock for a T1, but as > long as you keep the circuit private, the clock can be fairly sloppy. Thanks for jogging my memory about that, I guess I've been in denial about this stuff for a while. Yeah, if you're just running over a direct cable (which is what I was thinking about) you'd be OK doing this. > > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? > > Yes, some people on this list get connected this way (T1s that run a whole > 20 feet, CSU to CSU, with no frame in between). A horrible kludge in a > production environment, in my opinion, but it worked for quite a few > years. Recently someone at ANS suggested that we use a T3 the same way, > but he ended up being tarred and feathered. Umm...why were you doing this? I can understand it for testing and as a crude but expensive bandwidth limiter. > > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? > > Differences as in losses due to the long run? That is what the Line Build > Out option is for (on most CSUs). T1s, with thier twisted pair, > differential design, tend to be pretty tough. No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull Ethernet coax through that conduit. -Frank McConnell From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 14:10:13 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031855.LAA23700@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Umm...why were you doing this? I can understand it for testing and as > a crude but expensive bandwidth limiter. I do not know, but it seemed like such a waste. Just now are the things being taken out and replaced with 10baseT. > No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the > two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of > thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull > Ethernet coax through that conduit. I can see for two buildings that were far away, this could be an issue, but for my run of 50 feet, there should be no problem. The ground potential between the two plots of land ought not to be much at all. As for statis, one could pull a drain wire. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:11:02 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: <199808031911.AA15709@world.std.com> < > You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubbe < > part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will b < > concentric and gives a smooth surface. < < In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a < very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades < mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. You can if you have the right tools. Grinding is easier for most to do. I make TU58 drive wheels using thickwall rubber tube or tygon and mount the assembled result on an old tu58 motor and "grind" on a bench grinder. I get a good round smooth surface, minimal setup. The hub used is the one with the tire turned to goo, with the goo removed. < For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) < mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly < lubricated with glycerine. For general shapes its ok, the deformation affects accuracy. We used that to get the general shape (tubes or plugs) and then mounted them and did final grind. It was what the chief engineer wanted. Generally the size of the drive roller is allowed considerable latitude but roundness is desirable. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 14:17:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number > of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a > POTS network and using now-free modems to send small amounts of data > between them and to a central computer... but I'd never seen a > reference to doing this in FAQs on the net. I'd assumed that > was because it was too easy, not too hard. Well, its incredibly easy if you have a PBX. Otherwise, it would be nothing short of a bitch to create your own in-house AT&T. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 3 14:29:31 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted References: <199808031911.AA15709@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35C60F99.417B3622@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > < In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a > < very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades > < mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. > > You can if you have the right tools. Grinding is easier for most to do. > I make TU58 drive wheels using thickwall rubber tube or tygon and mount > the assembled result on an old tu58 motor and "grind" on a bench grinder. > I get a good round smooth surface, minimal setup. The hub used is the > one with the tire turned to goo, with the goo removed. I say it depends on what you have to do. I've reworked wheels and tires for obsolete reel to reel (audio) decks and vcr's by drilling a hole, gluing in the old shaft, and then trimming down the block to close shape of a circle with a pocket knife. I then chuck the shaft in a drill that's fixed to a bench and then use a file at first and then an emery board to smooth it. Whatever works - that's the solution. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 14:33:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: PC-68K In-Reply-To: <35C605C3.555483DD@wi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, James Pryor wrote: > I have 2 of these XT bus boards, plus a PC-68K MMIO daughterboard. > They are copyright 1985/1986 by N.J. Costanzo & TLM Systems, Inc. > 1-meg on-board, smartwatch, no cpu or roms > > Can anyone provide additional information re: > original use, availability of roms, system software? I have one of the PC-68K XT bus boards also. Mine came complete with CPU and ROMS (27128). The CPU is an EF68000P10, and the ROMs have it looking for OS/9 to boot from. I do not have an operating system for it, nor know what the intent was. Some prior efforts to find that information was unproductive. > Any information appreciated. 'Taint much, Jim! - don From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:35:15 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808031935.AA05942@world.std.com> < I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number < of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a 2000ft is within the capability of RS422 at data rates that are in the megabit range. There are other simple solutions like RS423 at low data rates. The DEC mill used to have many central systems that often were remote from the users by as many as 6 floors vertically and several hundred feet horizontally. (Royalt was ML11/M1 and our group was ML3-6/A1) we still ran 4800 or 9600 serial over the 500+ feet of wire of the standard dual twisted pairs of phone co wire. The biggest problem was the possibility of ground loops. With care that's can be avoided though RS422 (balanced differential) can deal with that as can RS485. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:35:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808031935.AA06056@world.std.com> < No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the < two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of < thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull < Ethernet coax through that conduit. Use thick eithernet wire as its coax and uses ground and everything uses an isolated interface to it. AUI is imune to ground loops and can be burried. The other approach is RS422/485 type interconnect as it is differntial. Myself I'd sink several peices of weather proof coax and build on that using AUI (thick eithenet). If you have a choice go underground as air trips invice lightining. Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 3 12:45:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Thanks... Message-ID: <199808031936.PAA00212@charity.harvard.net> Thanks to everyone that was helping solve our PDP-11 boot problems but it seems that part of the problem was the fact that the backplane was giving out (it actually went up in smoke on friday night while we were playing with it, as did the front panel to my IMSAI, what a night that was). So again, thanks... Tony Dellett PS: If anyone in the Massachusetts/New Hampshire area has a spare RX01 that they wouldn't mind parting with, we have alot of Q-Bus cards that need a backplane :) Tony From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Aug 3 15:03:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13376903106.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [IMP?] That means Interface Messaging Prcessor. For connecting things to the ARPAnet. Not sure what it did, but it's mentioned in the ITS arcana... ------- From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 3, 98 02:39:46 pm Message-ID: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> I wrote: > > I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic > > networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and > > slow. Then William Donzelli wrote: > Hmmmm...big, old, and slow, you say. Sounds like many PDP-11s and VAXen I > know! Yes, but a 400lb VAX is much more exciting than a 9600 baud leased-line modem that weighs 1/30 as much. I only have a little bit of interesting data comm hardware, the best of which is an ASR33 with built-in 110 baud dataset. It terminates in a three-wire POTS line - red, green and yellow, presumably for ring voltage to auto answer and turn on. When you send it an EOT (CTRL-D), it turns off. The modem is in the pedestal... the whole pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. -ethan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:19:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: <13376903106.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [IMP?] > > That means Interface Messaging Prcessor. > For connecting things to the ARPAnet. > > Not sure what it did, but it's mentioned in the ITS arcana... Back in the day before standards (late 60s) the designers of the Arpanet decided they needed a uniform network interface that all the different computer systems of the time could connect to. The IMP was that interface. It was actually a computer itself that acted as a gateway, passing data to and from the host computer from the nascent Internet. It handled the protocol conversion, etc. It was the equivalent of a NIC today. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 15:28:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > Yes, but a 400lb VAX is much more exciting than a 9600 baud leased-line > modem that weighs 1/30 as much. I only have a little bit of interesting > data comm hardware, the best of which is an ASR33 with built-in 110 baud > dataset. It terminates in a three-wire POTS line - red, green and yellow, > presumably for ring voltage to auto answer and turn on. When you send it > an EOT (CTRL-D), it turns off. The modem is in the pedestal... the whole > pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 > baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. Aggreed, but a Hayes modem (or any modem) is about as simple as you are going to get. What about old switches, muxes, and routers? Simple modems they aint! Anyway, I think old datacom and networking equipment is at least as interesting as the disk and tape drives we love so much. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:29:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 > baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. In 20 years (or less) when everyone has a terabyte going to their desktop. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:38:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > Aggreed, but a Hayes modem (or any modem) is about as simple as you are > going to get. What about old switches, muxes, and routers? Simple modems > they aint! > > Anyway, I think old datacom and networking equipment is at least as > interesting as the disk and tape drives we love so much. People generally like to collect what they know, and what was dear to them as they grew up. Many people never had exposure to datacom equipment beyond simple modems. Therefore, its a matter of disinterest due to ignorance of the technology. I'd love to start collecting 60s and 70s era datacom equipment, but I find it hard to identify anything I come across. I'm going to start making a better effort though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:45:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 2, 98 10:37:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/6f360212/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:48:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808030626.CAA22607@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 3, 98 02:26:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/3ad776c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:34:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 2, 98 10:17:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/8a1be364/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 15:34:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 3, 98 09:49:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 949 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/314d266c/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 17:04:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be > > > designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's > > > what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or > > > whatever... > > > > Line voltages would not (and could not) differ unless it was some short > > haul modem. The higher layer protocols might though. > > Hmm... In the UK it's possible (I believe) to get a point-to-point link > from BT (The Telephone Company) with no 'battery' on the line. That's to > say that the line is electrically dead, and that you don't get 48V DC > across it. Hmmm. Well, I wonder about this. I know such services exist in the US as well, but they still at least have battery on the line. I would wonder what good a dry point-to-point connection through the telco would be over several miles, where the resistance in that length of wire would absorb whatever voltage you put on it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Aug 3 17:20:52 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > > > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > > > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > > > is you need to take a very light cut... > > > > With a very sharp cutting tool! > > That always helps :-). I would also grind a shallower angle on the > top/front edge, to reduce the tendency for it to dig it. A tool that digs > in to the rubber would pull it away from the spindle, and cause it to end > up undersize (and rough!). > [snipsnip] A trick I have used when faced with turning rubber, neoprene, and the like, is to fix the piece strongly to whatever spindle you are using, (lathe, mill, 1/4" drill motor, etc) and then freeze it solid with either liquid nitrogen or 'freeze mist' from an electronics parts store... both substances are readily available... LN2 is much more enviro-friendly, though... and a liter of it is wonderful fun if you're into science-pranks and demos. I especially like the super-conducting levitating magnets from Edmund Scientific.. At any rate, frozen rubber resembles wood and can be worked the same. Cheers John > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 17:39:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808032239.AA09832@world.std.com> < Hmmm. Well, I wonder about this. I know such services exist in the US < well, but they still at least have battery on the line. I would wonder < what good a dry point-to-point connection through the telco would be ove < several miles, where the resistance in that length of wire would absorb < whatever voltage you put on it. The service exists, I used to use it 25 years ago for remote base stations (radio service). It was called a dry copper pair and went point to point with NOTHING else. It had to be that way as you would put audio on it and DC on it to either key the transmitter or disable to tone squelch. the average circuit resistance ws about 1kohm/mile. So the remote end didn't sense voltage but instead sensed current (~8-9ma) and polarity to do switching. Audio was put on the pair the normal way (differential via transformer). Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:11:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Thanks... In-Reply-To: <199808031936.PAA00212@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 3, 98 01:45:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 805 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/2e2f9439/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:16:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Aug 3, 98 06:07:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/86608266/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:23:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 3, 98 01:20:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/6628bf3d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:25:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 3, 98 11:24:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 595 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/d037da6a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:31:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031935.AA06056@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 3, 98 03:35:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/e6a6b175/attachment.ksh From timhotze at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:11:51 1998 From: timhotze at hotmail.com (Tim Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Hi, MS Softcard Message-ID: <19980804001151.26773.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi everyone. Just to let you know, I'm not dead. (Boos, hissing, please.) Anyway, I found a MS Softcard for an A2. Serial# (if it matters) 2-189 18227. Full docs, all disks, packaging, etc. Now, for someone who has 2 or more: What's a good garage-sale-old-used-hardware price???? (It's a frends, but I want to pay hm to remove the guilt.) Pleae reply to worldsfate@geocities.com (Yes, that's not this addresss, but I can't get my HPC to send from it.) Thanks for any info. Tim D. Hotze ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 19:09:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 3, 98 03:20:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1085 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/6cbfa588/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 19:25:40 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 3, 19:45) References: Message-ID: <9808040125.ZM7271@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 3, 19:45, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Oh heck it booted > > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > > > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > > > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > > > is you need to take a very light cut... > > > > With a very sharp cutting tool! > > That always helps :-). I would also grind a shallower angle on the > top/front edge, to reduce the tendency for it to dig it. A tool that digs > in to the rubber would pull it away from the spindle, and cause it to end > up undersize (and rough!). Actually, you want exactly the opposite if you're cutting it -- a very acute angle, so the rubber is sliced thinly with minimal effort. You want to slice it rather in the manner you would do wood turning with a turning chisel. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 19:30:31 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 4, 0:25) References: Message-ID: <9808040130.ZM7323@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 4, 0:25, Tony Duell wrote: > Am I the younger generation? (I date from about the time of the PDP12). I > certainly know what a cork borer is - I've used them on many occasions. > What on earth do people use now to fit glass tubing into corks? They don't use corks -- they use pre-bored rubber bungs. However, the easiest and safest way to put a thermometer into a bung is to insert a borer first, slide the thermometer down the borer, and remove the borer leaving the thermometer in place. One of the first things I was taught on the lab techs course years ago (the second thing was how to deal with a kid who has a thermometer impaled in the hand). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 2 15:55:50 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980801233609.00e76db0@mail.wa.jps.net> References: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199808040058.UAA21063@smtp.interlog.com> On 1 Aug 98 at 23:36, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 01:15 01-08-98 +0000, you wrote: > > > A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been > unable to > >find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. > > It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got > an FCC > >ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time > > Ah. I recognize it. That's an SC400 QIC-02 controller. It should be able > to support just about any QIC-02 drive (not limited to those made by Archive). > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thanks guys. Now all I need is a QIC-02 tape drive. :^)) Anyone have a need for this board ? I imagine it works. Free with shipping costs. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 20:08:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Hi, MS Softcard In-Reply-To: <19980804001151.26773.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tim Hotze wrote: > Hi everyone. Just to let you know, I'm not dead. (Boos, hissing, > please.) Anyway, I found a MS Softcard for an A2. Serial# (if it > matters) 2-189 18227. Full docs, all disks, packaging, etc. Now, for > someone who has 2 or more: What's a good garage-sale-old-used-hardware > price???? (It's a frends, but I want to pay hm to remove the guilt.) > Pleae reply to worldsfate@geocities.com (Yes, that's not this addresss, > but I can't get my HPC to send from it.) $10 oughtta do it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 3 21:17:57 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody References: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> Message-ID: <35C66F55.BB341780@cnct.com> John Foust wrote: > The parody mentions his kids - week before last, I bumped into > Alex Pournelle walking around in one of the computer history > exhibits (where one of my Teraks was on display) at the > ACM SIGGRAPH computer graphics convention in Orlando. > > For many years while I was working as a freelance writer, I'd see > Jerry in person at press events at computer shows, and I knew many > of his assistants / toadies. Ugh. It was frightening what he was > given, and how little time he spent with it, and how little he > understood it. Remember that Jerry's column used to be called "The User's Column". not "The Engineer's Column". His perspective is on "using" the damned stuff, and the stuff that doesn't die in infancy due to hardware failure or simple unusability he will try for several months. So will his staff (who are _not_ toadies). I've known Jerry for over twenty years (a side effect of being a fellow member of the Los Angeles Science Fiction Society). He's damned honest. I've had _serious_ arguments with him over the years, about politics (he's in favor of limiting government, I'm in favor of eliminating it completely), computers (I hate the Wintel standard, he recognized that the world would spend time in that Purgatory whether he or I liked it or not -- I showed him the TRS-80 Model 100 when it was less than a week on the market, due to his bad experience with the Mod One Radio Shack sold him, he bought a NEC 8201), space development (he [despite evidence] still thought the government has a role to play, although in recent years his writing has been less pro-NASA -- I haven't had a good cathartic argument with him since I moved to and got trapped on the east coast 6.5 years ago). Be aware that we are not friends -- our politics and willingness to express them sort of prevent that. But Jerry won't say something good about a product unless it works and he won't say something bad unless it _really_ fucks up. > > I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch > of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." What other writers are in that branch? Reply privately unless it means old computers. Or at least send me a pointer to that summary, as I suspect that it includes a number of writers I get along with far better than Jerry. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 2 17:39:13 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Monitors Message-ID: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> Well this seems to be my time for monitors. I just picked up a Taxan Multi Vision 770 Plus for $1.00 and an Atari Hi-res SM124 for $5. Last week I got a NEC Multisync JC1401P3A and Compaq VGA mono curbside, and acquired a Mac+ adapter for an earlier find, a Radius 15RAM1 Full page Display. Both Multisyncs have analogue<> TTL and mono-color switches and the Taxan has an overscan switch as well as a bunch of other controls. My main monitors have been a Nec Multi 2A for most of my VGA machines and a Commodore 1802 for my 8bits, not to mention my trusty Atari monitors with the bloody 13 pin connectors. I feel innundated :^)) Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on older monitors on the net or a newsgroup FAQ ? Is there a definitive textbook ? I have one, "PC&PS/2 Video Systems" by Richard Wilton but it deals mainly with software programming issues. BTW there was also 6 DEC Rainbow A and A+ in the same thrift for $1 each. No K-B or Monitors. I debated it with myself but have a RB 100B and a spare 100A and I'm already at minimal space, so I passed. They also had 2 Epson Equity's which I know ziltch about. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Tue Aug 4 07:55:15 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Sun-2/100U The Next Chapter Message-ID: Hi again, Thanks for all the help with getting the thing booted, I managed to get the miniroot installed on xy0 (an aging Fujitsu M2322K on a Xylogics 450(451?) controller), and it boots quite happily off the miniroot into single user mode, the SunOS install program is quite advanced for 1986, and very easy to use! Just select the packages and put the tapes in when asked. Along the way i've noticed that one of my memory cards seems to be faulty, it currently has 7mb of ram (4mb + 1mb + 1mb +1mb), after numerous "Protection Bus Faults" I removed all but the 4mb card, and all is fine, i was able to up it to 6 and isolate the faulty card. I'll probably end up replacing most of the 4164 chips on that board, i think I have a box full of them somewhere :) The only problem I seem to be having is that, the first time I installed SunOS, when it goes to boot multiuser, it stops at "Using 100 buffers containing xxxxx bytes of memory" then appears to write continously to the HDD, (I verified this by clicking the WP switch on, and it dumped errors everywhere). it's not the rc files, i'll have a go at reinstalling SunOS again and see. There appears to be another problem, I don't have the manufacturers bad block data for the drive, and as such when i reformatted the drive it has no bad block info.... Now I did try "scan" in the diags to rebuild the bad block table, at which point it filled the bad block table and declared the drive unusable. I am slightly dubious of this, as the format/verify then failed where it had worked previously. Resetting the drive returned things to a sane state, and the format/verify completed correctly... any ideas? On the up side, the Tapemaster 1/2" tape and the ethernet interface is working, when it does finally work it'll be plugged into the university LAN....should make an interesting curiosity :) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Mon Aug 3 23:53:18 1998 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | | | || || || | / | | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | | ________________________ __| |_____| | | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | | H | | \ \__| |___| | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | | H | nologies, people | | | \ | | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | | H | / | | | | | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | | H _________________________ | | o | | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | | H |o \__/ | / | | | | | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | | H | | / H | | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | | H / | | / H | | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | | H H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 23:56:35 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, John Lawson wrote: > [snipsnip] > > A trick I have used when faced with turning rubber, neoprene, and > the like, is to fix the piece strongly to whatever spindle you are > using, (lathe, mill, 1/4" drill motor, etc) and then freeze it solid > with either liquid nitrogen or 'freeze mist' from an electronics > parts store... both substances are readily available... LN2 is much > more enviro-friendly, though... and a liter of it is wonderful fun > if you're into science-pranks and demos. I especially like the > super-conducting levitating magnets from Edmund Scientific.. > > At any rate, frozen rubber resembles wood and can be worked the same. I recall one of the machinists doing that when I was a summer intern in a machine shop whilst in high school. Seems like I took the excess LN2 and froze a chap's sponge rubber chair cushion. It turned to dust, of course, when he sat on it. - don From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 4 00:11:27 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Freezer spray I have - and use a lot. It's essential for tracing > intermittant electrical faults. Liquid nitrogen I don't have, but I am > told it's not that hard to get or that expensive. Mind you, I don't hold > out any hope of getting it in the UK at the moment. For example, I wanted > some dilute hydrochloric acid recently, and was told it couldn't be > supplied because 'it's toxic'. Over here, it is commonly available for etching/cleaning swimming pools - at least on the left coast. But we have the same high degree of idiocy, also! - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 01:22:55 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 3, 98 10:11:27 pm Message-ID: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 4 01:37:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted References: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <35C6AC33.810A295@bbtel.com> Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe he was referring to the H2SO4, sulfuric acid. Liquid nitrogen would probably be too cold and crack the outer concrete/tiles. I used to love taking stuff into liquid nitrogen in school and then tossing it against the wall - what a mess a green grape made. This was until someone got the neat idea to use a mouse...yuk Don't they still sell a cooling spray for tracing heat related faults? I have a case of it (maybe less) that I bought at Tandy on sale some time back and it lasts a while if you use it carefully. I bought it with the oncoming of all the BS with restrictions on certain compounds putting holes in our outer atmosphere and because it was about 1/3 of normal cost. I don't have a TRS catalog handy but even if the stuff I have is off market, they should have suitable substitute available. I'm sure MCM, Mouser, Digikey and others must have something. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Aug 4 04:04:20 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland ???? Obviously... you've no pool experience. Brief instructions follow: 1. Confirm pool *is* dirty, ie. do hitherto un-named lifeforms show up dead and entangled in the skimmer? Do you discover exobiologist skulking around at night? Yes, it needs cleaning! 2. Place four 10-inch forged eye-bolts on anchor trees equidistant from each other in the water and spaced near the periphery of the pool. 3. Introduce LN2 into sidewall coils, or over surface, until entire pool is frozen and telemetry reports pool core temp of -30C. 4. With crane, using beam spreaders and grapples, lift frozen dirty pool contents gently out of the pool. (Caution: heavy!) 5. Wrap pool contents in plastic, secure tightly, and swing crane over to deposit pool contents beside driveway for regular trash disposal. Be neat and tidy... be considerate of your nieghbors. 6. Refill pool with sparkling clean fresh water. 7. Enjoy! I mean, that's what *I* do..... Cheers John > From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Aug 4 06:01:47 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Sun-2/100U The Next Chapter In-Reply-To: from Karl Maftoum at "Aug 4, 98 12:55:15 pm" Message-ID: <199808041101.HAA11369@crobin.home.org> > Along the way i've noticed that one of my memory cards seems to be faulty, > it currently has 7mb of ram (4mb + 1mb + 1mb +1mb), after numerous > "Protection Bus Faults" I removed all but the 4mb card, and all is fine, i > was able to up it to 6 and isolate the faulty card. I'll probably end up > replacing most of the 4164 chips on that board, i think I have a box full > of them somewhere :) You actually may not have any bad boards. If you look over the older archives of the Suns-At-Home mailing list (www.net-kitchen.com/~sah), you see this problem referred to quite a bit. IIRC, you may just have to live with the current situation or try to find a different board to replace the "bad" one. Either way, 7mb is the max because of the video architecture. <<>> From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 4 03:11:53 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you are interested contact him directly, not me. ----- Forwarded message ----- Return-Path: Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 From: will X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Subject: IIgs for sale I do have the following: * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with Authenticity certificate * 5.25" drive * 3.5" 800K drive * 52 meg hard disk * 1 meg Apple memory expansion board. * Apple ImageWriter II * Keningston System Saver IIgs * SCSI card with DMA and caching * AppleWorks 3, PrintShop IIgs, many TimeOut add-ons to AppleWorks * All manuals and cables (I have some, but not all, boxes), monitor, ADB keyboard, and ADB mouse If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, please pass the word on. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 08:58:55 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Thanks... Message-ID: <199808041413.KAA04102@charity.harvard.net> > > > > Thanks to everyone that was helping solve our PDP-11 boot > problems but > > it seems that part of the problem was the fact that the > backplane was > > giving out (it actually went up in smoke on friday night > while we were > > The backplane, or the power cable to it? I've never seen a backplane > smoke - with a DEC PSU, even a dead short between +5V and > Ground doesn't > normally melt anything. What on earth were you doing with it? > It was the power supply. Being old, it decided to go boom. > > PS: If anyone in the Massachusetts/New Hampshire area has a > spare RX01 > > that they wouldn't mind parting with, we have alot of Q-Bus > cards that > > need a backplane :) > > An RX01 (unless I am very much mistaken) is a dual floppy drive. It > doesn't contain a backplane, and you certainly can't plug q-bus cards > into it. I don't see how this would help. > My bad. We have a real PDP 11/23 backplane and we're looking for an RX01 to boot it from. We have a whole ton of 8" disks and these are the only disks we have with an OS. Tony From kevan at heydon.org Tue Aug 4 09:45:49 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. I got this 'offer' too, so he must be doing the rounds with it. The price certainly made me smile. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Aug 4 10:25:27 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <1998Aug04.112346.1767.126111@smtp.itgonline.com> I cannot attend the VCF but would like a shot at winning the IMSAI 8080 anyway. If I buy a $5.00 admission ticket and mail in the stub, would I be entered into the drawing for the IMSAI 8080? On the wrong coast- Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/4/98 12:55 AM ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | | | || || || | / | | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | | ________________________ __| |_____| | | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | | H | | \ \__| |___| | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | | H | nologies, people | | | \ | | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | | H | / | | | | | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | | H _________________________ | | o | | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | | H |o \__/ | / | | | | | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | | H | | / H | | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | | H / | | / H | | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | | H H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details [Last web page update: 07/26/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug04.005550.1767.55416; Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:55:50 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA16815; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:34 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA63494 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:26 -0700 Received: from jasmine.psyber.com (siconic@jasmine.psyber.com [207.135.192.16]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id VAA17724 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (siconic@localhost) by jasmine.psyber.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21912 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:19 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Vintage Computer Festival To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: ClassicCmp X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 10:20:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: S-100 RAM Card Message-ID: <199808041526.LAA14735@charity.harvard.net> Anyone out there have a spare S-100 RAM card (any size) that they would be willing to part with? I need one for the IMSAI, cant test it properly without one :) Tony From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 11:01:20 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041612.MAA21075@charity.harvard.net> I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at $200! Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 4:12 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? > > > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > ----- Forwarded message ----- > Return-Path: > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 > From: will > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) > Subject: IIgs for sale > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with > Authenticity certificate > * 5.25" drive > * 3.5" 800K drive > * 52 meg hard disk > * 1 meg Apple memory expansion board. > * Apple ImageWriter II > * Keningston System Saver IIgs > * SCSI card with DMA and caching > * AppleWorks 3, PrintShop IIgs, many TimeOut add-ons to AppleWorks > * All manuals and cables (I have some, but not all, boxes), > monitor, > ADB keyboard, and ADB mouse > > If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my > price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, > please pass the word on. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Aug 4 11:55:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041612.MAA21075@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980804125534.007b6510@netpath.net> At 12:01 PM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other >drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at >$200! I think maybe the "." key on this guy's keyboard is erratic. Should be $65.00! From franke at sbs.de Tue Aug 4 14:15:48 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> > > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with > > Authenticity certificate >> If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my >> price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, >> please pass the word on. USD 6500 - Maybe for an Apple 1 including box. > I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other > drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at > $200! > Tony 200 ? thats a lot. And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 12:12:40 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody In-Reply-To: <35C66F55.BB341780@cnct.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804121240.00cd41c0@pc> At 10:17 PM 8/3/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > >Remember that Jerry's column used to be called "The User's Column". >not "The Engineer's Column". His perspective is on "using" the >damned stuff, and the stuff that doesn't die in infancy due to >hardware failure or simple unusability he will try for several >months. If I wanted to hear the travails of clueless users, I'd get a job in tech support. JP's "experience" with new products (as in the parody, having unlimited amounts of support, from the techs to the president of said company) was entirely out-of-this-world and arguably not useful to Byte's readers. It's hard enough to pick the right bleeding-edge products when you get opinions from smart people. But our exchange here perhaps shows why the editors loved him as a columnist - he stated strong opinions, and he caused strong reactions. >> I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch >> of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." > >What other writers are in that branch? Reply privately unless it >means old computers. Or at least send me a pointer to that summary, I believe it was in Greg Benford's (?) book review of Tom Disch's (?) overview of the SF field, in this month's Reason magazine. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 11:53:22 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <8525664A.004FB71D.00@BOS-MTA01.SWEC.COM> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804115322.02290a00@pc> At 10:38 AM 7/23/98 -0400, bill.sheehan@stoneweb.com wrote: >Reminds me of a trick Penn Jillette (of the magician duo Penn & Teller) >thought somebody (somebody other than *him*) should try on their laptops >next time they pass through an airport: > >AUTOEXEC.BAT >echo ARMING.... Many years ago, P&T's text-based BBS had a similar trick, proceeding through a set of menus that warned you again and again that choosing this menu would format your hard disk. As I recall, at the end you got a message that congratulated your skeptical powers, knowing there was no way they could do that... (I know, there's the old reprogram the ANSI.SYS function key trick...) - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:04:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: cable modems In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804130428.00f37430@pc> At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote: > >Most interesting was a Cable Demodulator. Yep, not a MOdulator/DEModulator >(MODEM), but just a Demodulator. Apparently, TCI at one time sent out a >free signal on the cable that could be read by anyone with a PC and one of >these boxes. So, anyone know if they still do that, and what software one >would need? One of my favorite "before its time" technologies. I think I bought mine for about $120 in the late 80s, a version that worked on the Amiga as well as the PC, and I think they had an Apple II version, too. I'd bet a doughnut it qualifies for the ten-year-rule. I had TCI once, and now Marcus, and the signal was present on both. I think it was present on Rogers in Canada, too. The company name slips my mind, and I'd have to hunt in the basement to find the details - maybe General Datacom. They offered a $20/month service to get 15-minute-delayed stock quotes, which required regular reactivation pinging of a cartridge that plugged in the back. Other than that, it was remarkable for its time! 9600 baud continuous, uncompressed, quite delightful in the days of 2400 baud modems. They had a packeted proprietary protocol. In the stream, you'd get various second-rate wire service news stories and syndicated columns. They could also send files - you'd see a menu of files that were going to be sent over the next 24 hours, and select which you wanted, and it would grab them and store to your hard disk. There were message boards, but the uplink was done by long-distance call to an incredibly lame BBS system running on some kind of mainframe. I think they were aiming it at the educational market as well as stock market players. Come to think of it, I remember late-night TV commercials for it - maybe it was called Express PC? I think they missed the boat. I think with better software, they could've made lots of money selling these boxes to all the people who were using BBSes at the time. Instead of a sole national head-end, city or regional co-adminstration would've made it more interesting. It was "push" technology ahead of its time. To me, the big selling point today would be the high-speed potential of cable, combining with advertiser-supported content and a web-based back-link. (I know what DirecPC is, BTW.) Wouldn't a $100 gizmo that connects your PC to cable, and that could refill a couple hundred spare megs every day with interesting content (movies, cached news web sites, top-100 shareware, demos, etc.) seem like a great deal? But no, the big cable companies would rather charge $20 a month for that, and require a set-top box that wasted its energies (and parts cost) trying to be a standalone device. I seem to remember that it was only in the last two-three years that the "carrier" light stopped working on mine. I left it connected to the cable for the longest time. I called the company and they said they were discontinuing the device with no upgrade offer for me. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:07:37 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806239012.AA901223511@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804130737.00f402e0@pc> At 12:50 PM 7/23/98 GMT, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > >123 789 >456 vs. 456 ? >789 123 > 0 0 > >Which came first? I believe the calculator layout, and I remember hearing an explanation that Bell chose the *opposite* layout to prevent people from confusing the two devices, and/or that they did usability testing to choose the opposite layout. Makes no sense to me. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:10:38 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804131038.00f4f640@pc> At 02:00 PM 7/19/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >Is this the same Microway that used to make Flicker Fixer boards for Amigas? Yes. The FF was developed by an independent fellow named Pete Selverstone, who had the hardware manufactured and sold through Microway, who seemed to dabble in a number of esoteric devices at the time. - John From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 4 08:21:13 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <199808041717.MAA05833@trailingedge.com> On 4 Aug 98 at 19:16, Hans Franke wrote: > And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? Your Mileage May Vary I guess in Europe that would be YKMV. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 4 13:17:45 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 4, 98 07:16:48 pm Message-ID: <199808041817.OAA18337@user2.infinet.com> > > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition > > 200 ? thats a lot. It did have a hard disk. I just paid $75 USD for an IDE64, mostly for the novelty. It didn't come with a disk, not that disks <100Mb aren't virtually free these days. > And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? > > Gruss > H. "Your Milage May Vary", a phrase common in '70's car ads when gas milage because a selling point. It's "weasel words" to let a marketer quote a statistic without committing to it. It means that *you* might not have results as good as these, but that's not our fault. -ethan P.S. - I wouldn't pay $200 for a IIgs either. From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 4 13:56:00 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hardly! Cleaning/etching swimming pools with dilute hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:14:25 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 4, 98 07:16:48 pm Message-ID: <199808042014.OAA21400@calico.litterbox.com> YMMV - your milage may vary -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:15:31 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 4, 98 11:56:00 am Message-ID: <199808042015.OAA21415@calico.litterbox.com> Ahhh. Okay. The idea of mixing liquid nitrogen with water struck me as a mighty strange way to go about cleaning a pool. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:17:49 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041817.OAA18337@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 4, 98 02:17:45 pm Message-ID: <199808042017.OAA21444@calico.litterbox.com> $200 for a fully loaded GS, with a monitor, a couple floppy drives, and what not isn't bad at all. Add a hard disk and it's a good deal. BTW, ROM Os are practically worthless however because they won't run GSOS 6.01. You can still buy the upgrade roms from alltech for 29 bucks. All money mentioned in this article is in US dollars. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 15:41:22 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808042047.QAA27417@charity.harvard.net> I'm not saying it's not worth $200, just that I wouldn't pay that much for one :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 4:18 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? > > > $200 for a fully loaded GS, with a monitor, a couple floppy > drives, and what > not isn't bad at all. Add a hard disk and it's a good deal. > BTW, ROM Os are > practically worthless however because they won't run GSOS > 6.01. You can > still buy the upgrade roms from alltech for 29 bucks. All > money mentioned > in this article is in US dollars. :) > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 4 12:45:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 2, 98 10:39:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/a46185f0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 4 15:36:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Thanks... In-Reply-To: <199808041413.KAA04102@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 4, 98 09:58:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/b02ed0ad/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Aug 4 17:30:33 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 Message-ID: <007f01bdbff7$98e95de0$c775fea9@mainoffice> On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:42:40 -0400 (EDT), Ethan Dicks wrote: >>How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load >>NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network >>at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of >>debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the >>features your schedule permits. Do you remember where in the source tree this is? I don't have Linux installed, but I have the CD lying around here somewhere. {snip} >>comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. Batteries not included...may explode if heated...contents may have settled during shipping...keep away from open flame...may cause cancer in mice...do not operate heavy machinery after using... :-) Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Aug 4 20:42:46 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Help...? References: Message-ID: <35C7B896.57E1A9B2@idirect.com> >Rax wrote: > (community) My grandfather has 20 years of his life's work stored on a 1982 > Pitney Bowes Word Processor 6000 and the whole thing has gone kaput. It > used those large double sided, double density diskettes (also copyright > 1982). All I have is the reorder number on these diskettes: 169501. I need > to get the stuff on paper someohow so I can scan it all into the new PC I'm > getting him (unless it can be downloaded onto disk?). If you can tackle > this one, the machine is yours. Jerome Fine replies: I would need more information on the diskettes. Are they 8" floppies might they be compatible with the old original IBM format that was 1/4 Megabyte per side - called single density for a DEC RX02? The DEC RX01 used exactly that density. Note that these are soft sectored with only one index hole. The interleave would be of concern since each sector was only 128 bytes (if I remember correctly - 4 * 128 = 512 bytes per block). If anyone else thinks of or knows the exact floppy hardware details, please say so!! That is about all I could do with the existing DEC compatible equipment that I have access to from a friend. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From wjhl18 at webtv.net Tue Aug 4 20:48:19 1998 From: wjhl18 at webtv.net (james london) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 Message-ID: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Jim From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Aug 4 20:08:36 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 References: <199808040702.AAA01760@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> > From: "Hans Franke" > Subject: CBM B500 > > Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, > I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace > nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. > > The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly > a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo > is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a > different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. > Sure it's not a P-500? I currently have mine (P-500) opened for Information Gathering, might well do some now... The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) > Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are > lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. > > The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way > before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line > was introducted in 1983. Could be a beta prototype or one recalled during the FCC proving. (Commodore had a run-in with the FCC concerning the B and P series computers...) > > Any Info would be usefull. > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 21:14:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Larry Anderson wrote: > From my understanding EVERY scrap of Commodore's information regarding the > B-128 line of computers went to the Chicago B-128 Users Group (a nice > arrangement made with Commodore). I talked briefly with the president of the > group several years back but have since lost touch with anyone in the group. > I hope one day someone with the B-128 info will surface on the 'net. Is the B128 rare? I'm pretty sure I have manuals for one. Basically a C64 in an Amiga box, right? -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 21:24:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Is the B128 rare? I'm pretty sure I have manuals for one. Basically a > C64 in an Amiga box, right? Nevermind. I'm think of the 128D. -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 4 22:11:08 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was it made? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement > Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 12:53 AM > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > | | > | .================================================================. | > | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | > | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | > | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | > | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | > | H | | | \ \ | > | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | > | H | | | \ | | > | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | > | H | | \ \ | > | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | > | H | |\ `----o | > | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | > | H / Santa Clara, California | | > | H | | | > | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | > | H | | | > | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | > | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | > | H | | | | | | | | | | / | > | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | > | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | > | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | > | H / / | `-o \ \ || | > | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | > | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | > | H ____________________________ | | || | > | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | > | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | > | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | > | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | > | |__________________________________| | | | > | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | > | | || || || | / | | | | > | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | > | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | > | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | > | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | > | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | > | o ________________________ \______| |___o | > | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | > | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | > | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | > | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | > | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | > | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | > | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | > | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | > | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | > | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | > | ________________________ __| |_____| | > | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | > | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | > | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | > | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | > | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | > | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | > | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | > | | || || || | \ | | > | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | > | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | > | | \__________________________________ | | > | o o________ \ | | > | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | > | // | o__ \ | | | | | > | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | > | H | | \ \__| |___| | | > | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | > | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | > | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | > | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | > | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | > | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | > | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | > | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | > | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | > | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | > | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | > | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | > | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | > | H | nologies, people | | | \ | > | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | > | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | > | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | > | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | > | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | > | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | > | H | / | | | | > | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | > | H _________________________ | | o | | > | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | > | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | > | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | > | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | > | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | > | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | > | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | > | H |o \__/ | / | | | | > | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | > | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | > | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | > | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | > | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | > | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | > | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | > | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | > | H | | / H | > | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | > | H / | | / H | > | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | > | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | > | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | > | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | > | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | > | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | > | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | > | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | > | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | > | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | > | H H | > | \\ // | > | `=====================================================================' | > | | > | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | > |___________________________________________________________________________ | > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details > [Last web page update: 07/26/98] > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 22:47:40 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was > it made? The T1100 was Toshiba's first laptop, not *the* first laptop. I think the T1100 came out in 1986. Other laptops that have been called the "first": 1981 Epson HX-20 (first A4-style laptop) 1982 GRiD Compass (first clamshell laptop) 1983 Gavilan (Gwen Bell called this one the first laptop) 1983 TRS-80 Model 100 (M100 owners like to call this the "first") 1984 HP 110 (first battery powered clamshell?) 1984 DG/One (Data General says there's was first) -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 4 23:06:02 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808050408.AAA04292@gate.usaor.net> I didn't think it was the first. I have a Tandy Model 600, from 1985, and I *had* a model 100. I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not including the external SCSI 5.25" 360K floppy (there's no internal disk drive), which weighs at least an extra 15 lb.. These things were definitely NOT for the light traveler. I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS emulator. Mine is "fully loaded", with a 10 MB "Winchester Disk" (hard drive), 1 meg RAM (alot for then), a modem (not sure what speed. if any one knows, let me know), and an RS-232 serial port. The battery even holds a bit of a charge) I have another WLTC - w/ 10 MB Winchester Disk, 512k RAM, and the RS-232 serial port. If anyone is interested in it, make me an offer. All of the parts are good, but the power supply. There is a blown capacitor in it - easy fix. It also does not have an external AC-DC adapter. I'm currently using a Tyco racing pack on the one that works. I also don't have a battery, but can give plans to build one. Make me an offer + shipping. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement > Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 11:47 PM > > The T1100 was Toshiba's first laptop, not *the* first laptop. I think the > T1100 came out in 1986. > > Other laptops that have been called the "first": > 1981 Epson HX-20 (first A4-style laptop) > 1982 GRiD Compass (first clamshell laptop) > 1983 Gavilan (Gwen Bell called this one the first laptop) > 1983 TRS-80 Model 100 (M100 owners like to call this the "first") > 1984 HP 110 (first battery powered clamshell?) > 1984 DG/One (Data General says there's was first) > > -- Doug > From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 4 23:12:18 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <3.0.1.32.19980804130737.00f402e0@pc> Message-ID: <35C7DBA2.1442C80@cnct.com> John Foust wrote: > > At 12:50 PM 7/23/98 GMT, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > >123 789 > >456 vs. 456 ? > >789 123 > > 0 0 > > > >Which came first? > > I believe the calculator layout, and I remember hearing an > explanation that Bell chose the *opposite* layout to prevent > people from confusing the two devices, and/or that they > did usability testing to choose the opposite layout. > Makes no sense to me. Adding machines used the "calculator" layout several decades before there were push-button phones. For some reason I'll never understand :-) the early desktop calculator manufacturers used the layout so that they could sell them to the accountants who had been the single largest market for adding machines. And handheld calculators wound up following the pattern. Not unlike the continuing popularity of the QWERTY keyboard. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 4 23:18:53 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 References: <007f01bdbff7$98e95de0$c775fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <35C7DD2D.F8029D2@cnct.com> Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:42:40 -0400 (EDT), Ethan Dicks > wrote: > > >>How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load > >>NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network > >>at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of > >>debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the > >>features your schedule permits. > > Do you remember where in the source tree this is? I don't have Linux > installed, but I have the CD lying around here somewhere. > > {snip} > >>comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well, Caldera's distribution of Linux has had complete Novell connectivity from day one -- Noorda loaned them the startup money. That's why Caldera also has the Digital Research sources free for the downloading as well, they're fairly tight with Novell. (I've been alternating between Redhat and Caldera on my main machines for a goodly while now). -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 23:21:10 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <35C7DBA2.1442C80@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 5, 98 00:12:18 am Message-ID: <199808050421.WAA24914@calico.litterbox.com> Adding machines established their keyboards before the phone. yes. In fact, if memory serves, the phone company deliberately changed the phone keypad layout because the original touchtone hardware couldn't respond as fast as experienced adding machine operators could punch keys. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 4 23:27:54 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> from "james london" at Aug 4, 98 09:48:19 pm Message-ID: <199808050427.VAA09145@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Jim: There was a Burroughs mainframe available free for the taking last November or December. Unfortunately it was in Australia. I corresponded with the fellow on behalf of a new cold-war era museum that is under development near Ottawa Ontario. You might contact the folks at http://www.diefenbunker.ca/indexe.htm and see if they had any luck with the Burroughs machine after I put them in touch with the fellow in Australia. They are looking for a 50-60s vintage Burroughs mainframe to install in the machine room of the bunker. I offered to coordinate shipping but did not hear back from either party afterwards. Perhaps the Australian machine was the incorrect model for them - they might be able to connect you with him to see if what he has meets your needs. Good luck, Kevin > > I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, > circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! > > Jim > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 23:28:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: <199808050408.AAA04292@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a > printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a laptop, though. > I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, > '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS > emulator. Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? -- Doug From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 5 00:23:10 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a > > printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not > > I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in > printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's > which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. > I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a > laptop, though. It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided drives, unfortunately. - don > > I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, > > '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS > > emulator. > > Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? > The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a > DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? > > -- Doug > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 00:56:39 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, David Williams wrote: > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > ----- Forwarded message ----- Return-Path: Date: > Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 From: will > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Subject: IIgs for sale > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with <...> > If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my > price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, > please pass the word on. David, why do you insult us like this? I should have you whacked just for relaying this message to the list :) PS. Not crack, but definitely a cocktail of acid, speed and a big dose of stupidity. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 5 00:59:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > drives, unfortunately. OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody makes a similar obscure reference in the future. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:39:01 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, james london wrote: > I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, > circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! You mean besides a time machine? Keep looking...a lot. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:44:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was > it made? No, it was the first "Laptop" computer (you got the quotes the other way around). You need to come to the VCF to hear Bruce Faust explain the distinction. The T1100 was circa 1986. Someone else with more general knowledge of it fill him in on the significance of the T1100. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:51:34 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > > drives, unfortunately. > > OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is > that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this > machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody > makes a similar obscure reference in the future. I smell web-advertising dollars here!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 5 09:14:45 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808051159.NAA02416@marina.fth.sbs.de> Finaly - I already thought nobody would care about ol' Commo' here :) >> Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, >> I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace >> nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. >> The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly >> a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo >> is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a >> different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. > Sure it's not a P-500? I currently have mine (P-500) opened for Information > Gathering, might well do some now... Shure it is a B500 - i could send Photos tomorrow (all at home) Different label and no joystick connectors at the backside. Althrough i guess the connector on the mobo next to where the P500 has the joysick ports, could be the same. Also the video chip is a 6845 and not a VID. > The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 > The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 > There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 > There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), > the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what > the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) Tomorrow. 8235 is the manufacturing week 35/82. N82S199N ? Hmm maybe a PROM ? N821xx are PROMS from Philips - But I never have seen a ...00 or ...N. I'll hafe a look tonight. >> Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are >> lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. >> The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way >> before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line >> was introducted in 1983. > Could be a beta prototype or one recalled during the FCC proving. (Commodore > had a run-in with the FCC concerning the B and P series computers...) No FCC number. My peronal guess is that on first sight Commo had planed a B500 and P500 series of computers, but later switched to the 500/600/700 scheme (and then again to B128/256 for the US and 6x0/7x0 for Germany) - and eventualy dropped the 500. Beside the B500 I own 3 610 units and a 720 (_without_ fd's!) >> Any Info would be usefull. > From my understanding EVERY scrap of Commodore's information regarding the > B-128 line of computers went to the Chicago B-128 Users Group (a nice > arrangement made with Commodore). I talked briefly with the president of the > group several years back but have since lost touch with anyone in the group. > I hope one day someone with the B-128 info will surface on the 'net. Hmm - The question is which Commodore unit sold their info. If only the US- Commodore Inc., than its only a small part, since the development and Production (at least of the prototypes) where done at Commodore Germany - an 'independent' company - they even survived the Breakdown of Commodore for almost a year :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 5 08:08:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808051308.AA07860@world.std.com> < > the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determin < > the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) 82s100 is a PLA (PAL like device) Allison From dlw at trailingedge.com Wed Aug 5 09:23:39 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: References: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: <199808051422.JAA07012@trailingedge.com> On 4 Aug 98, at 22:56, Sam Ismail wrote: > David, why do you insult us like this? I should have you whacked just for > relaying this message to the list :) No insult Sam, just thought someone else could use as good a laugh as I had over it. :-) > PS. Not crack, but definitely a cocktail of acid, speed and a big dose of > stupidity. I seem to have attracted several similar offers of late. I don't know if something new has slipped into the water supply or they just don't really know. I try and tell them but most seem to think they can retire off their old computers. Maybe he'll come back around after he can't sell it. I wouldn't mind having a ROM 0 just to round out my IIgs collection but I don't want one THAT bad. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 09:56:50 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00357@gate.usaor.net> > I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in > printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's > which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. > I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a > laptop, though. > Well, It has a battery, and is fairly portable, despite the weight. It originally came with a case, and so did the disk drive. I have the case for the disk drive, but not the computer. the two cases connected together to make one, large, heavy case. > > Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? > The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a > DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? > I can't be positive on how it works, but I can't run the WANG system disks on my Win '95 computer. They will run on the WANG. It has some sort of MS-DOS emulator, though I can't be sure that it's PASCAL that actually runs on the thing. I'll look it up in the manual and see what it says. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 10:00:21 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00373@gate.usaor.net> > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > drives, unfortunately. > - don > I really wouldn't call it a luggable, mainly because it look like a laptop, and can run off of a battery, not needing to be connected to an AC outlet. If nobody minds, I may be able to upload a small picture of it so everyone can see what I mean. I you don't want me to post the picture to the list, let me know, and I'll send it to individual addresses. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 10:04:54 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00402@gate.usaor.net> > No, it was the first "Laptop" computer (you got the quotes the other way > around). You need to come to the VCF to hear Bruce Faust explain the > distinction. > Don't think I'll make it, I live in PA. If someone would tell me a bit more about it, I'd appreciate it, though. > The T1100 was circa 1986. Someone else with more general knowledge of it > fill him in on the significance of the T1100. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 5 10:19:58 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <49b585d0.35c87820@aol.com> feeling mean, i decided to email the induhvidual with the $6500 gs system and feign interest. seems to be a nice setup, but not for the price. he can't prove ownership and doesnt even have the original boxes for the main items. maybe i'll think of a real valuable system that i could "trade" him for, or either just tell him he's dreaming. >8-) In a message dated 98-08-05 10:54:48 EDT, you write: << I seem to have attracted several similar offers of late. I don't know if something new has slipped into the water supply or they just don't really know. I try and tell them but most seem to think they can retire off their old computers. Maybe he'll come back around after he can't sell it. I wouldn't mind having a ROM 0 just to round out my IIgs collection but I don't want one THAT bad. >> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 5 11:02:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> Tony, At 06:45 PM 8/4/98 +0100, you wrote: >> Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on > >What do you want to know? No, I don't fool with repairing them very often. I just need to be able to find their specs so I can match them up with the right video boards. If it's about repairing them, then I've found >the best references to be the 2 volumes of Mauritron Computer Monitor >Circuits that were published on paper (the CD-ROM versions are nowhere >near as useful). Each book costs about \pounds 50.00, and includes about Those sound usefull. Do you know if they're they available here in the US and where? >50 monitor circuit diagrams. Even if the monitor you have isn't >included, you'll probably find a circuit fragment which matches the one >you're working on. > >That's why the book is a lot more use than the CD-ROM. It's a lot easier >to flip through the book. Yes, and I don't have to drag a computer around to read them! AND they usually leave a lot of the pictures and drawings out of the CD ROMs. > >I also have a few monitor service manuals. Some of them I have because I >have the monitor, others because they contain 'generic' circuits that are >used all over the place. > >Also, of course, books on TV servicing are useful. Uggg! I used to work on TVs but no more! Unless it's something special it's not worth the time or parts that it would cost to fix it. Or course, most of the stuff built in the last 15 years has special parts that you can't get anyway. > >If you want info on using the monitors, then I can't think of anything. >In my experience the customer controls and connections are pretty obvious >(or can be obviously traced if you pull the cover). > >I suppose all that's left is finding out what the scan rates are. For old >single-frequency monitors, without those silly power-saving features, >the best way to find the horizontal scan rate (at least approximately) is >to power it up without sync, and look for the main frequency in the >random electromagnetic emissions. Sometimes just holding a scope probe or >counter probe near the monitor will do it. Sometimes a very loose >coupling to the flyback (a couple of turns round the core) will do it. I hadn't thought of that. >Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me >so much. Have you done much of that? How successfull were you? Joe > >-tony > > From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 5 12:32:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: <199808051509.LAA00373@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > If nobody minds, I may be able to upload a small picture of it so everyone > can see what I mean. I you don't want me to post the picture to the list, > let me know, and I'll send it to individual addresses. No, it's not a good idea to send binaries to the list. If you have a website, just send the URL to the list. If you don't have a website, there are plenty of places that will give you free web space (like www.geocity.com). --- Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 5 08:35:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 2, 98 10:39:13 pm Message-ID: <199808051737.NAA28442@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Aug 98 at 18:45, Tony Duell wrote: > > Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on > > What do you want to know? If it's about repairing them, then I've found > the best references to be the 2 volumes of Mauritron Computer Monitor > Circuits that were published on paper (the CD-ROM versions are nowhere > near as useful). Each book costs about \pounds 50.00, and includes about > 50 monitor circuit diagrams. Even if the monitor you have isn't > included, you'll probably find a circuit fragment which matches the one > you're working on. > No, I was thinking more about interfacing. What works with what computer. The differences between formats. MGA, CGA, EGA, VGA, SVGA, RGB, Composite, TTL <> Analogue, V-H refresh rates, etc. Then there's the plugs and cables. Coming from an Atari-C64 background it took me a while to recognize that a 9pin dbl was likely not a VGA , but not always as with the multi-synchs. Most monitors don't say on the back what they are ,or even if they are color or not. Then there are the 15pin DBL(?) DEC and 3270 plugs not to mention the various DIN plugs. I've only recently found a good diagram of the various shells (from the Redmond Cable site) How about changing a 9pin multi to a 15-pin ( 3rows). Macs and Apples have their own quirks. Certainly the info is out there at the various platform sites or in their manuals, but not always. SVGA is another ball of wax entirely. I have monitors that I'm not sure whether or not they're SVGA capable, not to mention how the FPD flippables work. Radius has nothing on the older models that I could find. It's a complete subject in itself and especially for collectors or those with older machines. > That's why the book is a lot more use than the CD-ROM. It's a lot easier > to flip through the book. > I'd agree there, but at 100 Lbs.($300 Can ?) for the two I'll settle for the inconvenience of the CD. > I also have a few monitor service manuals. Some of them I have because I > have the monitor, others because they contain 'generic' circuits that are > used all over the place. > > Also, of course, books on TV servicing are useful. > > If you want info on using the monitors, then I can't think of anything. > In my experience the customer controls and connections are pretty obvious > (or can be obviously traced if you pull the cover). > Well this Taxan I've found has as well as the color<>mono TTL<>Analogue sitches and the usual monitor/TV-type controls, 4x4 matrix preset controls, 3 p-b controls, Preset: Auto- release, Scan: Auto- Overscan, Mode: Auto-16 colors. Which is fairly self-evident, but without knowing the Video characteristics of the computer you're hooking it up to, all could go up in smoke. How much easier it would be to look it up in a book with references as to matching monitor-computer. Even kind of a Dummys' Guide to monitors for the neophyte. > I suppose all that's left is finding out what the scan rates are. For old > single-frequency monitors, without those silly power-saving features, > the best way to find the horizontal scan rate (at least approximately) is > to power it up without sync, and look for the main frequency in the > random electromagnetic emissions. Sometimes just holding a scope probe or > counter probe near the monitor will do it. Sometimes a very loose > coupling to the flyback (a couple of turns round the core) will do it. > Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me > so much. > There are monitor specs available for those of us that don't have a scope or the know-how to measure for them but it's pretty sparse. And of course then there's the computer end of the problem. If there isn't any such book available it might be a worthwhile project. " Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Monitors". I'd certainly buy one. > -tony > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 5 13:18:49 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > > drives, unfortunately. > > OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is > that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this > machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody > makes a similar obscure reference in the future. > > -- Doug > Gosh, I hope not!!! - don From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Aug 5 13:27:41 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: References: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:39 PM 8/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, james london wrote: > >> I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, >> circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! > >You mean besides a time machine? Keep looking...a lot. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the "Jupiter 2" spaceship A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia (can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. So... it becomes a matter of just how much you really want one... B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 5 14:25:03 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Boot Disks for Northstar Advantage Message-ID: <199808051927.PAA04897@charity.harvard.net> I need a set of boot disks for a Northstar Advantage system. Can anyone help? Thanks Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 5 15:40:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> References: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: >Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with >the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the >panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on >the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the >"Jupiter 2" spaceship If that is the case, some of the old "Lost in Space" fan produced books might be able to help you reproduce the console. I've seen a couple of them that had VERY detailed diagrams in them of all the panels on the Jupiter 2. Zane >A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at >www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia >(can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. > >So... it becomes a matter of just how much you really want one... B^} > >-jim > >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Aug 5 16:49:53 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 and LIS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980805144953.00b24910@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:40 PM 8/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with >>the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the >>panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on >>the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the >>"Jupiter 2" spaceship > >If that is the case, some of the old "Lost in Space" fan produced books >might be able to help you reproduce the console. I've seen a couple of >them that had VERY detailed diagrams in them of all the panels on the >Jupiter 2. > >>A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at >>www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia >>(can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. OR... for those of you on the East Coast (or those who would like an excuse to go there), the 'Alpha Control' folk own the complete "Jupiter 2" flight deck console and do offer tours. You can take your own pictures and have a LIS fantasy flight (YIMV). Details on that on the Alpha Control web site as well... BTW: They also offer a videotape of the flight deck with everything running/blinking/etc... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 12:42:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson" at Aug 4, 98 06:08:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1014 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980805/18ccd91d/attachment.ksh From lgreenf at nausicaa.net Wed Aug 5 20:21:24 1998 From: lgreenf at nausicaa.net (larry greenfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: APF Imagination Machine Message-ID: <199808060121.SAA22023@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Hi! I used a search engine and it pointed me to this email address. I have no idea if this is a person or a listserv, but I've been trying for a long time to find an old (circa 1980) "APF Imagination Machine". I'm NOT a collector, but am looking only for this machine because it was the first computer I ever owned. If you know of anyone who has one that might be willing to sell it, or see one for sale anywhere, PLEASE let me know! Thanks! Larry Greenfield Email: lgreenfi@nyx.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 18:24:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 5, 98 11:02:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/907eed71/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 19:07:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <199808051737.NAA28442@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 5, 98 01:35:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/6faa700e/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Wed Aug 5 21:27:19 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks Message-ID: <19980805195910.0ca2eb14.in@mail.pressstart.com> I've been trying to make an archive copy of my Mindset software, because all of the commercial software for the Mindset requires the original disk to be inserted before running, including Microsoft GW Basic ! Does anyone have (successful) experience copying Mindset disks, or know of a real kick butt copy program for the IBM PC? ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 5 21:39:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980805213901.48777c82@intellistar.net> Tony, >If you can fix TVs you're over halfway to fixing monitors > >> it's not worth the time or parts that it would cost to fix it. Or course, > >Not so. Most TV faults can be fixed in under an hour using fairly cheap >parts. About the worst thing that's likely to go is the flyback transformer. And the horizontal output transistor 95% of the time. Flybacks and HOTs are very expensive here if you order a specific part. The last flyback that I got cost $80! If you can get a generic part number then they're a lot cheaper. > >Maybe I only get the higher class of TV sets here, They MUST be! but I certainly find >them worth repairing. The cheap modern crap produces a picture that IMHO >is unwatchable even when you've tweaked all the adjustments... Then you should see the crap that they sell in the discount stores here! > > >> >Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me >> >so much. >> >> Have you done much of that? How successfull were you? > >It's _Very_ easy to modify the vertical scan rate. The horizontal scan >system is nasty to modify because (a) the flyback is tuned to (a harmonic >of) the scan rate, (b) the EHT voltage depends on the scan rate and (c) >the scan sawtooth is partially produced by the inductance of the yoke. So >changing anything there is a pain. How far can you shift the horizontal frequency? > >But the vertical system is more friendly. The sawtooth waveform is >produced in a low-level stage, amplified by what's essentially an audio >amplifier (in fact some TVs used an audio amplifier chip here), and sent >to the yoke. Given a data sheet on the chip you can normally figure out >what components to change. Is it just a RC circuit? Joe From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Aug 6 00:12:06 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: FW: WTB PDP-11/03 Message-ID: <35c93ae8.708913924@smtp.wa.jps.net> Anyone got an 11/03 they'd care to sell to this fellow? Please respond directly to him if so. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec From: Ron Maxwell Subject: WTB: DEC PDP 11/03.... Yup!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: Email abuse@news2.new-york.net if this posting is inappropriate Reply-To: rmaxwell@nyct.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp16.nyct.net Message-ID: <35C9057F.4F31@nyct.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news2.new-york.net 902366577 27041 (None) [207.198.184.16] Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:23:11 GMT Lines: 15 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.new-york.net!news2.new-york.net!not-for-mail Hi there... I am looking to buy a DEC PDP 11/03 with 2 8" floppy drives and a terminal... Why??? Because! I am lookin for the following software: Some kind of DOS with BASIC, Fortran, Pascal, and/or COBOL with manuals. Blank Floppy disks a plus!!!! This was the fist computer I evered programmed and am looking for some serious nostalgia! Ron -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 6 04:30:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: 8" flops In-Reply-To: <35c93ae8.708913924@smtp.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: There was a big feeding frenzy here when somebody offered some 8" floppy disks. If you're still hungry, somebody's selling boxes of 10 for $2: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201710016 -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Thu Aug 6 11:32:03 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808061417.QAA08553@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 >> The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 >> There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 >> There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), >> the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what >> the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) > I'll hafe a look tonight. Ok, here they are: Motherboard: FAB 825 6045 (A/B 8256044 Ref.D) ROMS: (All info like written on the labels) Kernal 901244-04A 901242-03A BASIC HI128K 901243-03A BASIC LO128K Other ROM(?): CBM2 LP 906114-04 It is definitly not a P500 - no Joysticks no VID Gruss H. BTW: Board# on the 610's is: 825 6048 -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 12:25:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980805213901.48777c82@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 5, 98 09:39:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/92e5e1bd/attachment.ksh From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Aug 6 15:42:02 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks In-Reply-To: <19980805195910.0ca2eb14.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <000501bdc17a$aba17ce0$55c648c2@snoopy> > Does anyone have (successful) experience copying Mindset > disks, or know of a real kick butt copy program for the > IBM PC? If you are running Linux at all then try dd ing the disks to a file and then back to another disk. This _should_ copy anything which is readable in a PC drive byte by byte regardless of disk format or attributes (AFAIK). Regards Pete From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 6 15:43:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In the UK, a third-party flyback is about \pounds 20 (for a TV or > monitor), a genuine one is about \pounds 50.00. And the horizontal output > transistor (we call that a line output transistor) is about \pounds 5.00 > for most sets. And to think, I was just about to dumpster the following: (3) WY 85 Upgrade/repair Kits, each with: (1) 420010-01 flyback (1) BU806 transistor (1) 4.7/50 bipolar cap (2) 10/50 cap (1) 220/50 cap If these are useful to anybody, make me an offer. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 17:00:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks In-Reply-To: <000501bdc17a$aba17ce0$55c648c2@snoopy> from "Peter Joules" at Aug 6, 98 09:42:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/93ebfdd3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 17:02:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 6, 98 03:43:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 931 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/73c5b042/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Aug 6 19:18:23 1998 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <199808070018.AA21319@crl.crl.com> Hi guys! I'm telnetting into my old accound from a bookstore in Denver... Just wanted to let any locals know that there is an NEC APC (Advanced Personal Computer) available at the ARC thrift shop at 10000 E. Colfax in Aurora. It's an older machine, looks like a VT-100, with a monitor and 2 8" floppies in the main unit. Not sure how much (tag was torn.) Also there is a Franklin Ace 1000 and a Commodore PC-20 III. And an IBM DisplayWriter. So far, I haven't picked up much, but I did get a Mattel(?) Odyssey, to "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. That's about it; I'm off for more sightseeing. From rax at warbaby.com Thu Aug 6 20:50:57 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Computers in the movies... Message-ID: Y'all probably know about this site from the U of M's Charles Babbage Institute's Center for the History of Computing, but it's new to me so I thought I'd pass it along. It's a listing of movies which feature computers: http://www.cbi.umn.edu/movies.htm R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 6 19:48:25 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980806194825.006a30e8@pop3.concentric.net> Well the last few days have been good to me as I was able to save the following: 1) Bally Computer system with these videocades 2012 Space Fortress, 2011 Galactic Invasion, Tornado Baseball,Tennis,Hockey and Handball, 3002 Football, Blackjack, Poker and Acey-Deucey, and four game handles; 2) Mac LCII box only no kb or mouse; 3) Mac 128 keyboard and cable; 4) ASCI U68 System X computer really nice wood and smoke gray plastic case; 5) Next Laser printer; 6) Fluke 1102A IEEE-488 Translator two of them; 7) B&K models 466 and 440 CRT testers/rejuvenators; 8) Toshiba T1000SE manual; 9) Zenith model ZVM-1330 color monitor; 10) CPT Office Companion 2000 computer; 11) SX-64 Executive Computer; 12) Atari 2600 and paddles, lots cartridges came with it; 13) TRS80 Color computer programmable controller; 14) TRS80 X-PAD with pen and power supply; 15) Lots of color computer cartridges with two outstanding ones, 26-3142 Appliance and Light controller and Colorware Hi-RES input module COCO MAX; 16) TRS80 Multi-Pak interface 26-3024; 17) Various old paddles, joysticks and such; 18) lots books, manuals, diskettes to many to list here; 19) Many Vic20 items; 20) And many more that do not meet the 10 year rule, so all it has been a good week. I will going to Chicago this weekend to hit some flea markets there and will updated the list next week on any finds there. Keep Computing John From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 6 21:12:50 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! Message-ID: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi All: I have just returned from the University of BC here in Vancouver. They called me to see if I was interested in purchasing two mainframes that went surplus as of June 30th, 1988. They are open to offers, and do not want much money for these. The machines can be described (basically) as follows: First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. The current front runner on this machine is a local scrap dealer who is going to chop up and recycle the machine for its metal content. :-( I've contacted Paul Pierce, mainframe collector extraordinaire, but he is unable to take the machine due to space and time contraints. Any other takers? Also available: A Hitachi (apparently) mainframe system, model HS 7023, terminals, tape drives, racks, disk storage. This system was smaller (about the size of a large VAX 750/780 installation), was also in working order as of June 30th, and is available. It sort of looked like a mini to me but the computing centre staff refer to it as a mainframe. Offers, you pick up. If there's any interest then please email me and I will be able to provide you with further information, and put you in touch with the surplus folks that are handling the disposal. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 6 21:59:12 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Looking for Info: EMULEX CC02 Message-ID: <199808070259.TAA11312@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Group: Anyone have info on what looks to be an async serial board, the Emulex CC02? It's a Q bus card, quad height, 2x 40 (50? it's not in front of me) pin IDC headers. I tried various search engines but no luck. Thanks, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 6 22:27:39 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail In-Reply-To: <199808070018.AA21319@crl.crl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > So far, I haven't picked up much, but I did get a Mattel(?) Odyssey, to That's Magnavox Odyssey. Is it just the Odyssey, or Odyssey2? If you got a plain Odyssey (circa 1972) then you've got yourself quite a find. > "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. Atari Pong is cool. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 02:13:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 BTW, there's also yet another IMSAI for sale there as well. It's raining S-100's. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 03:58:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html -- Doug From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 7 05:28:30 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980807062830.0068d610@mail.wincom.net> At 03:58 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! > http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html > >-- Doug > > Question: Is it true that Allison is the model for DILBERT'S "ALICE"? From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 7 06:46:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! References: <3.0.2.32.19980807062830.0068d610@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <35CAE91F.9A887EEA@bbtel.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 03:58 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! > > http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html "One example that shows how much money can be saved involves the creation of her scanning platform. She found her a working HP ScanJet for free, a copy of the software was also free and then scrounged for an interface card which fit an IBM PS/2 machine (a 286). Her net cost so far has been only US$10. She uses Laplink to transfer the images to a 486 for OCR and editing. The resources available decided the configuration she would use. " I KNOW this is the same Allison! I just hope she remembers where she "scrounged" this stuff and maybe I'll start selling old machines in Singapore . All kidding aside, she is a model for women that wnat to show others that they can do whatever they put their minds to, despite stereotypes. They didn't mention that Allison also does just about anything else she puts he mind to. It may also show the world that she's just cheap (hehe) I have a feeling that there is starting to become more than a nostalgic revival for the older equipment. I've had tons of inquiries into the PS/2's I have, for use rather than collecting, and even more in machines that I've previously had problems selling or trading. I sold a ton of Commodores lately, from Vic's to Amigas and I don't have a single unit left in sight. Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 every 3 yrs just to keep up with the Jones'??? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 08:44:42 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash Message-ID: <7669009@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Ooh...got any spare two-prong power supplies for the Vic 20? -- MB From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 7 10:01:23 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 1 info Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980807110123.00687bc0@mail.wincom.net> While browsing I discovered that Chapter 9 of TAB book # 1183, "Troubleshooting Microprocessors & Digital Logic" by Robert L. Goodman, consists of about twenty five pages of schematics and troubleshooting hints for the TRS80 Model 1. I hope this is of interest. Regards Charlie Fox From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Aug 7 10:11:58 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! Message-ID: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't >it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > The one for $2500 says the reserve has not been met!!! At that price, maybe MITS should start up again! The Imsai is $305 right now, for the person looking for one. -Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 7 10:38:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! Message-ID: <199808071538.AA17680@world.std.com> < I KNOW this is the same Allison! I just hope she remembers where she T'is me and I do. < also does just about anything else she puts he mind to. It may also show < that she's just cheap (hehe) Correct in both cases, I'm cheap and I put my mind to it. ;) < Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 eve < just to keep up with the Jones'??? It's not the $2500... it's the $2500 for his, $2500 for hers and $3000 for the 1.6 children that want the newest one. Whatever happend to timsharing systems... A great way tp distribute the cost. Allison From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 12:52:11 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! Message-ID: <199808071537.RAA00517@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >>of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >>our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >>which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't >>it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > The one for $2500 says the reserve has not been met!!! Wishes.... > At that price, maybe MITS should start up again! Wishes... But hmm what about building Replicas for all the poor yougsters ? Are there any oldie Remakes available ? > The Imsai is $305 right now, for the person looking for one. I bet a whole squard of snipers is waiting for the closing time. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 13:01:44 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! Message-ID: <199808071546.RAA00991@marina.fth.sbs.de> >< Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 eve >< just to keep up with the Jones'??? > It's not the $2500... it's the $2500 for his, $2500 for hers and $3000 for > the 1.6 children that want the newest one. *G* > Whatever happend to timsharing systems... A great way tp distribute the > cost. MS tries to catch up with WinNT - so the Users might share their time while waiting for the next bugfix. :) SCNR Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 10:48:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: $!!!! Re: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807104846.489f143c@intellistar.net> At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >which has already been met! They don't call it E-Pay for nothing! Joe From van at wired.com Fri Aug 7 12:34:12 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi everyone... One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully functional again... Any advice would be very much appreciated. Best regards, van ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:29:36 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK Message-ID: <7676588@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Van Burnham wrote: One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully functional again... Any advice would be very much appreciated. --- end of quote --- I don't have any spares right now, but I was going to suggest checking Goodwill/Salvation Army stores -- I saw a Mac 128/512/Plus keyboard for sale at one of those not too long ago. Also, Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com, I think) sells all kinds of old Apple/Mac stuff, including small parts (like maybe key caps and keyswitches). I've replaced those keyswitches many times, and if you can solder two dots onto a flat circuitboard, it's not very difficult. Unlike today's single-piece membrane keyboards, all the keys on the older Mac keyboards are separate. Other companies to try: Preowned Electronics, Shreve Systems, and Nexcomp, all of which specialize in refurbished Mac systems and parts (www.preowned.com, www.shrevesystems.com, and www.nexcomp.com). Nexcomp lists a Mac Plus keyboard, no cable for $25 and a Mac Plus mouse for $19. The others may be cheaper. Hope that helps! -- MB From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 7 13:34:13 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out > of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from > our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 > which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't > it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > BTW, there's also yet another IMSAI for sale there as well. It's raining > S-100's. > > -- Doug > > Actually, Doug, it really confirms supply/demand theories! It also confirms one of Phineas T. Barnum's theories too 8-} - don From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:36:13 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements Message-ID: <7676795@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/a148bc26/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:40:15 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Lisa II parts Message-ID: <7676904@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/db9c891f/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:43:11 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 269 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/057b6cb9/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:45:24 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III (last one, I swear!) Message-ID: <7677375@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 276 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/77bdf2c1/attachment.bin From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 16:03:32 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III (last one, I swear!) Message-ID: <199808071848.UAA08287@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Mine has a malfunctioning floppy. Looking for a replacement, as well as any > repair documentation or original manuals... If it is only for the drive, any DISK ][ could be used for replacement parts. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jsalzman at hersheys.com Fri Aug 7 13:52:56 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette players/radios or Remington electric razors. I'm open for any disputes. (Be gentle) Jeff Salzman > >Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong >version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 7 14:10:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: <199808071546.RAA00991@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <13377942125.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Whatever happened to Timesharing?] Hit opobo.umtec.com (Say HELLO!) or minako.umtec.com... Guess which one's real? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 7 14:14:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about System 7 later...) Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? (I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) ------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 14:12:29 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements Message-ID: <199808071923.PAA02160@charity.harvard.net> From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 15:18:56 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> I dont think my previous plea made it to the list, our mail system here is rather braindead. I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. Thanks Tony From red at bears.org Fri Aug 7 15:25:00 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup In-Reply-To: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 7 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong > version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! That's just 9VAC at something around 1, maybe 1.5A. And I think the connection is even somewhat standard. It's not in front of me at the moment, though, so I can't check to be certain. ok r. From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 7 15:41:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C52C@NT486> -----Original Message----- From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. Your last msg did make it. Do you need 8 bit, 16 bit, static, dynamic, 16 bit address, 24 bit address, mixed RAM and ROM, do you have a boot ROM of some kind, what CPU card are you using, do you have a front panel? I'll check and see if I have anything to spare this weekend. The catch is the S-100 boxes are piled 6 hi and chances are the spare card is in the bottom one, plus I have to unscrew each top to look inside. Jack Peacock From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 15:59:25 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Anything that will store bits for an IMSAI with the stock 8080 processor card. Thanks Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com] > Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 4:42 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] > >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If > anyone has one > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. > > Your last msg did make it. Do you need 8 bit, 16 bit, > static, dynamic, > 16 bit address, 24 bit address, mixed RAM and ROM, do you have a boot > ROM of some kind, what CPU card are you using, do you have a front > panel? I'll check and see if I have anything to spare this weekend. > The catch is the S-100 boxes are piled 6 hi and chances are the spare > card is in the bottom one, plus I have to unscrew each top to look > inside. > Jack Peacock > From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 7 16:17:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C52D@NT486> -----Original Message----- From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 1:59 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... >Anything that will store bits for an IMSAI with the stock 8080 processor >card. Ok, what other cards do you have? I might have an old Omnibyte 64K, uses 6116 type SRAMs plus you can stick in a 2716 pair (it uses even/odd pairs for 16-bit access) in the last 4K for a boot ROM. Unfortunately all I have are Z80 bootstraps, none will run on an 8080. No promises, but I'll look. Jack Peacock From william at ans.net Fri Aug 7 16:13:16 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: > First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of > DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge > tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water > cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and > was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten > years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, > and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would > do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. Too far away! If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs will come in really handy! William Donzelli william@ans.net From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 16:16:19 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7681280@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- jsalzman@hersheys.com wrote: If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette players/radios or Remington electric razors. --- end of quote --- I was able to make it work with an NES power supply (9VAC 1.3A), but anytime I tried to use the datasette, the screen would flicker and all operations would cease. I assumed this happened because the current was too low (high enough to drive the Vic, but not the Vic and the datasette). According to the 8-bit FAQ (in Mr. Dellett's post) this is probably correct -- the lowest-current one listed there uses 1.7 amps. Thank you for the response! -- MB ------------------------------------ "YOU! Out of the gene pool!" http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 16:22:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... In-Reply-To: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. You might try Herb Johnson: http://pluto.njcc.com/~hjohnson/s100.html -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 7 17:49:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Rails needed Message-ID: <35CB8480.E7B62CB6@bbtel.com> Check your junk boxes! I am in need of a couple (up to 3 ) pairs of drive rails for a Dell server. The rails will be plastic and have the marking of "PN 25102" molded into them. They are a little bit different than the usual in that they have a snag tab on the fron tof each to lock them into the front of the case. If anyone has some, drop me a direct note please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Fri Aug 7 16:57:13 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: All right, darnit I'm back. I moved jobs, started my new business and found out the new business only requires about 20 hours of my time every month and a half. :-/ And I've still got a garage and basement full of iron beasties waiting for resurrection. So... (BTW, Allison and Don Maslin, I think I owe each of you $5 for some docs and disks you sent me.) I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is causing the sync problem. I verified that it's the video driver circuitry and not some malfunction of the monitor by connected a monochrome monitor to the Video Out jack on the back and seeing the exact same behavior. At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a viable replacement for them? Is my theory about the video plausible? I've got images of bootdisks etc floating around in an email box somewhere on the backup tape from which I had to resurrect other email messages so once I get the video cleaned up I'm ready to rock and roll I think. Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what should it be connected? Thanks in advance for advice and assistance... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 7 18:19:19 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash In-Reply-To: <7669009@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980807181919.006ac04c@pop3.concentric.net> I passed on one for free Thurdays at a thrift store. I will check on Monday to see if it's still there, I'm going out of town this weekend or I would Saturday. At 09:44 AM 8/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Ooh...got any spare two-prong power supplies for the Vic 20? > >-- MB > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 17:52:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: References: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807175245.47a72572@intellistar.net> I have a brand new in the box Apple Extended Keyboard II. What's it worth? It's absolutely spotless and the manual is still in the shrink wrap. Or maybe I should post it on E-Pay and see if I can get $2500 for it :-) Joe At 10:34 AM 8/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi everyone... > >One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up >and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external >hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that >the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried >some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in >trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. > > > >Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would >be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully >functional again... > >Any advice would be very much appreciated. > > >Best regards, > >van > >........................................................................ > > @ > / > / Shift Lever > (D)/ >\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === >BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! >- ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 >Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection >mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] > ] ]] >71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... >van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com >production manager >wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states >........................................................................ >for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com >van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 18:08:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements In-Reply-To: <7676795@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807180816.47a7bf9c@intellistar.net> Will an 800 power supply work? I think I have one. You may have to take the 800 too though! Joe At 02:36 PM 8/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >I have an Atari 400 that needs a power supply. I spoke to someone at a company called Video 61 (which specializes in old Atari stuff) and he said the power supply is so weirdly designed that if I try a generic equivalent, it'll blow the board. And he refused to tell me what the actual specs are. So, do any of you have a 400/800 power supply you'd be willing to trade/sell, or -- ye gods! -- could you tell me the actual specifications, so I could maybe build one? > >Thanks very much! > >-- MB > >------------------------------------ >"YOU! Out of the gene pool!" > >http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 18:15:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... In-Reply-To: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807181532.47a7d718@intellistar.net> No, you last message made it. But I think everyone here is hoarding all of their S-100 stuff! (I know I am!) Joe At 04:18 PM 8/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >I dont think my previous plea made it to the list, our mail system here >is rather braindead. > >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one >they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. > >Thanks >Tony > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 7 15:20:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Van Burnham" at Aug 7, 98 10:34:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/c2d3febb/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Fri Aug 7 20:02:11 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Anybody want to part with... Message-ID: ...an Altair? From: "Seth D. Carmichael" To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Subject: [collectorz] FW: for collectorz Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:50:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Message-Id: <000001bdc22b$d7eda560$b689b1cd@seth> List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 2.54, List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Help: Reply-To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Sender: collectorz-admin@lists.tmn.com Precedence: bulk X-Lyris-To: [rax@warbaby.com] X-Lyris-MemberID: 2557 X-Lyris-MessageID: 7371 Status: U please respond to Dustin direct! Thanks From bogus@does.not.exist.com Fri Aug 7 01:41:25 1998 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 Message-ID: Hello, I'm looking for an old Altair 8800, and I need to know if it is possible to buy one or if you know of anywhere, where I could get the plans for it. Any information that you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Dustin --- You are currently subscribed to collectorz as: [rax@warbaby.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to unsubscribe-collectorz@lists.tmn.com -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Fri Aug 7 19:25:05 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: S-100 RAM Card Message-ID: <35CB9AE1.BCF0A7BC@joyce.eng.yale.edu> The only cards I have are a PIO and Processor card (well, plus the front panel). I appreciate the help. Tony (from home) apulo@joyce.eng.yale.edu From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Fri Aug 7 20:27:48 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: S-100 mania In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one > > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. We have a strange one still cranking here at work. An S-100 bus multi-processor system with CPU & memory cards from a place called Teletek. Runs something called Turbo Dos. Looks sort of like CP/M hacked to channel I/O from the multi-processors through one master cpu & disk controller (with an ST-225, hoo boy. got a box of them too!) and some primitive file privledges. Anyone else encountered such a beast? -Wayne Cox From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 20:39:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: Greetings, I finally got around to trying the Profile hard drive someone gave me, with my Apple III, but I can't get it to work. I haven't tried formatting, but I wan't to leave that as a 'last resort', in case there's something useful on the drive. I opened up the drive when I first got it, to see what's inside. The actual drive mechanism is a full-height 5.25" jobbie, and IIRC it's 5MB. I don't remember who the manufacturer was. I power up the drive first, and wait until the READY light stops blinking. I have no Apple III docs, I just 'guessed' that that was the proper procedure. I don't know if it is yet. I then boot up the III with the SOS 1.3 Utilities disk. I've used the configuration program to make .PROFILE active. The configuration file reports the following: item field value 1 - Device Name................ .PROFILE 2 - Device Type................ $D1 Block, Read, Write ( range 00..FF ) Formatter present; NonRemovable 3 - Device Subtype............. $02 ( range 00..FF ) 4 - Driver Status.............. ACTIVE 5 - Comment Apple /// SOS Profile Driver (C) Copyright 1981, Apple Computer Inc. 6 - Configuration Block data Slot Number................ 04 Unit Number................ $00 Manufacturer ID............ $0001 Apple Block Count................ $2600 (9728) Version ID................. 1.00 I can't edit the configuration block data, though. If I go down to item 6 and hit RETURN, I get to the "Edit Driver Configuration Block" screen, which looks like it should have at least 16 values on it. It only displays "[FF]" at location 00, though, and although it says I can use arrows to go to other values, the arrows don't do anything. If I go to the "Device handling commands" section from the main menu, and attempt to Verify .PROFILE, the READY light on the Profile blinks, there is a clicking noise, and the READY light goes out. The program reports ".profile - Volume not found". The READY light stays out for a while, blinks a few times, then comes back on and stays on. If I go to "List devices configured", it pauses when it gets to .PROFILE, and reports "(no directory)", and the drive behaves exactly as with Verify. It's possible the drive just needs to be formatted, but as I said, I don't want to do that until I'm sure there's nothing salvageable on it. I'm not even sure I've got the cabling right. I assumed it takes a straight-through 25-pin cable from the ProFile controller to the drive unit. No twists or turns along the way? Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. Any helpful info will be appreciated. Hopefully I don't get frustrated and try formatting the unit before I get a reply. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Fri Aug 7 20:48:09 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: FW: We have a PDP11/44 Available In-Reply-To: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> References: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> Message-ID: <35ccae27.869549876@smtp.wa.jps.net> Say... wasn't someone besides me looking for an 11/44? Here's your chance! ;-) -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:05:19 -0700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: We have a PDP11/44 Available >>Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:05:19 -0700 >>Organization: The University of the Arts >>Lines: 60 >>Message-ID: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> >>Reply-To: jawillie@hslc.org >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.28.84.22 >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------57797D7306A236C27B672957" >>X-Trace: 902505849 YRH3WRCEH5416D01CC usenet57.supernews.com >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win16; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail >> >> >>--------------57797D7306A236C27B672957 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>We currently have a full PDP11/44 system that we are trying to get rid >>of. The system consists of the following >> >>1 - PDP11/44 >>1 - TS11 Tape drive >>2 - RMO2 Drives >>2 - Systems Industries Drives (680Mb, 390Mb) >>1 - DEC LP25 Printer >> >>We are willing to entertain any reasonable offer for this equipment. We >>are also willing to donate this equipment to any charitable or >>educational institution. If you are interested in this equipment, email >>either myself at the address below or Joyce Zogott at jzogott@uarts.edu. >> >>Thanks. >>-- >> James A. Williams, PC Systems Analyst >> The University of the Arts >> Computer Services >> Voice: (215)875-4856 >> Fax: (215)546-6134 >> jawilliams@uarts.edu >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 20:55:35 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Van Burnham wrote: > except that when I fired her up, I found out that > the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried > some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in > trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. I've got the identical problem with my Mac 512K and MO100 mouse. It moves horizontally, and the button works (the menus drop down from the title bar) but it won't move vertically. The keyboard also had some 'dead' keys, but with enough typing on them, they eventually woke up. Just dirty contacts. I cleaned out the mouse, but I haven't done anything else yet. Tony gave me some info on how the critters work, but I haven't had time to look into it yet. I still don't know if it's the mouse or the Mac with the fault. One useful thing would be the Mac's mouse port pinout, though, so that I at least know what pins to look at. And the Apple //c's, too. This is just piling up on the 'things to do' list. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 21:02:00 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup In-Reply-To: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 7 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong > version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! Hummm... I saw a large box full of those in an electronics store. Unfortunately, that was about two years ago, and the store is about two hours away by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). And they were charging something like $8 CDN each. The specs listed on the top of my VIC-20 power supply are: INPUT: 117V 47-63Hz 40W OUTPUT: 10VAC 30VA Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 21:54:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: References: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would >be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully >functional again... Unfortunatly I'm in need of spares at the moment my self, I guess it's time for another Goodwill run, so I can't help you there. I've got a pair of Pluses that I'm maintaining until cousins twin girls are older (they got the computers when they were a year and a half). >Any advice would be very much appreciated. When getting the above mentioned computers running I discovered that it can be a real pain to find fully functional Mac Plus keyboards. I also discovered that it's handy to have one non-functional keyboard around, that you can pull keys off of, and test to make sure they are good. Then when you need to, you can replace a bad key. This takes a Soldering Iron, but about the only skill you need is not to hit yourself with the Iron :^) I've also repaired one of the fancy ADB keyboards (the ones that sell for $160 new), in its case I had to refurbish the keys themselves. First I unsoldered them, then got them working again and soldered them back on. This is not a fun proceedure, and does require a little skill (but just a little). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 22:07:01 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: References: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) >and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped >down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard >have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is Oh, bleep. Let me guess you've got a Lisa 2/5. They're infamous for this problem. I was able to get to mine just prior to the batteries really messing stuff up. This is most likely the cause of your problems, any chance of reparing the damage? >At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the >board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a >viable replacement for them? No, you can boot without them. IIRC it's a _slight_ annoyance not having them, but it does work. Besides the clock won't go past 1995 so who cares if that is wrong :^) >Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. >Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should >be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and >an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one >of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what >should it be connected? I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't remember what it is :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 22:01:03 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about >System 7 later...) This is a problem. I'm assuming that the 200Mb HD is not out of a Mac, and as such does not have the Mac Firmware. If this is the case, your cheapest alternative is to get a Hard Drive that does. You can get software that will let you work with non-Macified HD's, but it's not worth it in this case (i.e. the software costs more than a used HD would). You can get System 7.0.1 off of one of the Apple FTP sites. >Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce >these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? >(I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format >the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) >------- I've heard of software that will let you do this, but haven't tried any of it. I have used 720k floppies in a Mac, but they were formatted on an Amiga, using a Macintosh emulator (I was really surprised they worked). Is 'hfstools' a Linux package? I seem to remember hearing of something like that for Linux. Even if you could format the SCSI HD with it, I don't think it would work, as you need certain software partitions on the Hard Drive. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Aug 7 21:59:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <146d8274.35cbbf16@aol.com> In a message dated 8/7/98 10:17:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, healyzh@ix.netcom.com writes: > >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > >System 7 later...) you have to run the apple hdsc setup program that should be able to identify and init the external drive. if it's not a genuine apple drive, it won't do it. if that's the case, i could send you a program to do it. david From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Aug 7 16:43:34 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: On the brink of bidding...IMSAI Message-ID: <007b01bdc24c$8a4199e0$f7aefea9@mainoffice> You know, I usually don't bid on anything on eBay unless: (1) it's a low-demand Commodore or Apple item that I want which is (2) less than $20. This time, it's different. I'm intrigued by the IMSAI 8080 listing. It hurts me to think about paying real $$$ for a 20-year-old machine. At $356 (the last bid that I saw today), it's only, what, $150 cheaper than it was when new? It reminds me of the $1500 Altair a few months ago. I don't have one...I want one...I'd give almost anything in my collection for a working one. I just don't want to get screwed by frenzied bidding. If I'm thinking about that kind of $$, I'd much rather see it go to someone that I know. So, if someone on this list would like to save me from myself, let me know. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 7 22:47:59 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <004701bdc27f$563fd160$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me personally. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 8:45 PM Subject: Apple III & Profile > >Greetings, > >I finally got around to trying the Profile hard drive someone gave me, >with my Apple III, but I can't get it to work. I haven't tried >formatting, but I wan't to leave that as a 'last resort', in case there's >something useful on the drive. > >I opened up the drive when I first got it, to see what's inside. The >actual drive mechanism is a full-height 5.25" jobbie, and IIRC it's 5MB. >I don't remember who the manufacturer was. > >I power up the drive first, and wait until the READY light stops blinking. >I have no Apple III docs, I just 'guessed' that that was the proper >procedure. I don't know if it is yet. > >I then boot up the III with the SOS 1.3 Utilities disk. I've used the >configuration program to make .PROFILE active. The configuration file >reports the following: > >item field value > 1 - Device Name................ .PROFILE > 2 - Device Type................ $D1 Block, Read, Write ( range 00..FF ) > Formatter present; NonRemovable > 3 - Device Subtype............. $02 ( range 00..FF ) > 4 - Driver Status.............. ACTIVE > 5 - Comment > Apple /// SOS Profile Driver (C) Copyright 1981, Apple Computer Inc. > 6 - Configuration Block data > > Slot Number................ 04 > Unit Number................ $00 > Manufacturer ID............ $0001 Apple > Block Count................ $2600 (9728) > Version ID................. 1.00 > >I can't edit the configuration block data, though. If I go down to item 6 >and hit RETURN, I get to the "Edit Driver Configuration Block" screen, >which looks like it should have at least 16 values on it. It only >displays "[FF]" at location 00, though, and although it says I can use >arrows to go to other values, the arrows don't do anything. > >If I go to the "Device handling commands" section from the main menu, and >attempt to Verify .PROFILE, the READY light on the Profile blinks, there >is a clicking noise, and the READY light goes out. The program reports >".profile - Volume not found". The READY light stays out for a while, >blinks a few times, then comes back on and stays on. > >If I go to "List devices configured", it pauses when it gets to .PROFILE, >and reports "(no directory)", and the drive behaves exactly as with >Verify. > >It's possible the drive just needs to be formatted, but as I said, I don't >want to do that until I'm sure there's nothing salvageable on it. > >I'm not even sure I've got the cabling right. I assumed it takes a >straight-through 25-pin cable from the ProFile controller to the drive >unit. No twists or turns along the way? > >Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. >I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it >seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. > >Any helpful info will be appreciated. > >Hopefully I don't get frustrated and try formatting the unit before I get >a reply. :) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 7 22:49:00 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: References: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980807204900.00701b2c@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi William: I've never heard of these, but am supposing that they are some type of heat sink. If you can give me a better description I can see if I can get some. I will be going back to the machine room next week. Kevin At 05:13 PM 98/08/07 -0400, you wrote: >> First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of >> DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge >> tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water >> cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and >> was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten >> years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, >> and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would >> do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. > >Too far away! > >If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out >of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut >like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs >will come in really handy! > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Aug 7 19:05:30 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980807204900.00701b2c@ferrari.sfu.ca> References: Message-ID: <199808080341.XAA00910@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 20:49:00 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kevin McQuiggin > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! > Hi William: > > I've never heard of these, but am supposing that they are some type of heat > sink. Nooo... under that heatsink, those is vital chips so heavy with copper, thick plated of gold. (That's why the scapper is anxious to grab this one.) No wonder they're so hard to find now for replacements. Oh, I have no idea how big or how easy to take that module apart to expose the circuit board loaded iwth those chipsets on it? And how big the heatsink attached, (I know if that is big that would be heavy) Plans: have one of these as chat piece but not to destory one for anyone's sake for future.... Jason D. > > If you can give me a better description I can see if I can get some. I will > be going back to the machine room next week. > > Kevin > > > At 05:13 PM 98/08/07 -0400, you wrote: > >> First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of > >> DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge > >> tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water > >> cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and > >> was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten > >> years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, > >> and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would > >> do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. > > > >Too far away! > > > >If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out > >of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut > >like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs > >will come in really handy! > > > >William Donzelli > >william@ans.net > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 7 19:23:51 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: References: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199808080426.AAA24877@smtp.interlog.com> On 7 Aug 98 at 19:01, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > >System 7 later...) > > This is a problem. I'm assuming that the 200Mb HD is not out of a Mac, and > as such does not have the Mac Firmware. If this is the case, your cheapest > alternative is to get a Hard Drive that does. You can get software that > will let you work with non-Macified HD's, but it's not worth it in this > case (i.e. the software costs more than a used HD would). All non-Mac HDDs have this problem. Apple wanted to monopolize their market. It's been a while since I struggled with my Mac+ but there are several programs IIRC that you can use to format your HDD so the Mac will accept it. I'm not sure but check out the Silverlining page they have a free or shareware Lite program. There is likely something as well in the classicmac archives http://www.zws.com/classicmacs/ > You can get System 7.0.1 off of one of the Apple FTP sites. > There's some debate that 6.0.8 is faster on the earlier Macs than System 7. > >Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce > >these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? > >(I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format > >the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) > >------- > Just format the ddds disks on the Mac. DOS adds stuff which brings it down to 720k . I've also heard you can format them on the Atari ST (10 sectors vs 9 on DOS ? ) but I've never tried it yet. > I've heard of software that will let you do this, but haven't tried any of > it. I have used 720k floppies in a Mac, but they were formatted on an > Amiga, using a Macintosh emulator (I was really surprised they worked). > > Is 'hfstools' a Linux package? I seem to remember hearing of something > like that for Linux. Even if you could format the SCSI HD with it, I don't > think it would work, as you need certain software partitions on the Hard > Drive. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > > lwalker@interlog.com From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 8 00:07:27 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: S-100 mania In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > We have a strange one still cranking here at work. An S-100 bus > multi-processor system with CPU & memory cards from a place called > Teletek. Runs something called Turbo Dos. Looks sort of like CP/M hacked > to channel I/O from the multi-processors through one master cpu & disk > controller (with an ST-225, hoo boy. got a box of them too!) and some > primitive file privledges. Anyone else encountered such a beast? > > -Wayne Cox Nothing strange about that! A classic example of multi-user, multi-processor, networked Z80 machinery. Very dependable and easily expanded or altered, Pity that Billy didn't steal that one. DOS might even be worth having! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 8 07:13:30 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <00fb01bdc2c7$c82b4000$f7aefea9@mainoffice> On Fri, 7 Aug 1998 14:52:56 -0400, Salzman, Jeff" wrote: >>If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power >>supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. >>If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you >>need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar >>to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette >>players/radios or Remington electric razors. Right. R/S has two cords (278-1254 and 278-1256), but I think that the -1256 is the one. For the power supply, I bought a 9vAC 3.4a surplus power supply (Atari, I think) for $5 from Marlin P. Jones & Assoc., one of my favorite surplus catalogs. They carry a lot, but it seems that they specialize in power supplies of various types. When I'm building something, I go to them for the power portion of the project. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Aug 8 09:52:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Xpost: HP item help wanted Message-ID: <35CC6645.E5DC9517@bbtel.com> If anyone can help him, please email him direct, not me. I have a feeling these items are not PC related. --------------------------------------------------------- Norman Johns Burton, Mi USA - Saturday, August 08, 1998 at 08:57:44 Antique HP 50720A cdrom and CM 153/03 controller board. Looking for information/drivers for the above. This cdrom has a special 16 pin ribbon connector from it to the control board, another 10 pin ribbon connector???, a 5 switch DIP switch packet, plus the 4 pin power connector. The controller card has only 1 jumper block with 4 jumper positions. HELP! HELP! please. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:51:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13378157033.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> hfstools is a Unix trick. It will compile under most normal *nixes. (Or it's supposed to...) I think I can make a 720k HFS disk. Let me go dig one out and I'll see... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:53:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <146d8274.35cbbf16@aol.com> Message-ID: <13378157387.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [If it's not an Apple drive...] No, it's a Rodime device. Currently has a useless VAX/VMS volume on it. If you have something which can do the trick, email a copy to daniel@opobo.umtec.com, please? ------- From mark_k at iname.com Sat Aug 8 10:55:11 1998 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998 "Lawrence Walker" wrote: > All non-Mac HDDs have this problem. Apple wanted to monopolize >their market. It's been a while since I struggled with my Mac+ but >there are several programs IIRC that you can use to format your HDD >so the Mac will accept it. I'm not sure but check out the Silverlining page >they have a free or shareware Lite program. There is likely something as >well in the classicmac archives http://www.zws.com/classicmacs/ Here's something that I found on a web page: Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5 has a hidden switch to let you format ANY hard disk. To enable it you must edit resource "wfwr", ID 67 and change $00 to $ff ! [Use ResEdit to achieve this.] It seems to work; at least, HD SC Setup no longer quits on my (emulated) Mac with SCSI MO drive. Haven't got a blank disk to test it out fully though. (Aside: Is the old pre-System 6 Mac OS software still on the Apple site?) -- Mark From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:59:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <199808080426.AAA24877@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <13378158433.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Format floppies with Macintosh] And then they become 800k disks, which a PC can't read. [HDD setup stuff costs more than drive is worth.] This is another thing I hate, when companies use software checks to enforce hardware monopolies. That's SOOOO stupid. Any hardware could do, but the O/S makes sure it's a Genuine XXYZ-Corp. device and barfs if it's not. Guess I just get to deal with the internal HDD... (I think it's 20 meg, but it makes scary noises...) Buying new gear for this is out of the question. ------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Aug 8 09:54:18 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: My Retirement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few people have asked what's the deal? Didn't I retire from collecting antique computers? Well, I did part with some Tandy and Commodore equipment. Had some offers for some other equipment. There was one piece of equipment I got paid for and only just got around to sending out (variety of reasons, not JUST laziness). But some of my ham buddies got me involved in some packet radio projects. So that got me back into the mindset of electronic equipment. So, my wife catches me out in the garage one day sitting on a folding chair staring at the PDP-8is (it's an environmentally controlled garage attached to the house so don't worry) and the 11/84 and the 11/34. She asks me, "How are you going to get them downstairs?" and without thinking I say, "I'm not sure...I think I'll have to disassemble them and have you help me take them down in pieces." She knows me pretty well. So I guess I'm unretired. Sometimes everyone needs a break to get some perspective or something. My new job isn't NEARLY as time-consuming of my personal time and the business I started requires only 15 hours per month. On other, more relevant notes, I saw an AT&T 3B2/400 with full manuals and disks at PHDARA (Kansas City Hamfest) a couple weeks back for $40. But I'd already spent my alottment of cash on a 2 meter rig and associated hardware I required. I was going to get the guys number but someone finally bought it. :-/ My boss used, until about a month ago, an Apple IIgs for his accounting system. He said it was more powerful, flexiable and reliable than any of the various PC or Mac accounting software he'd tried. It's still running but the book-keeper is doing double entry into the old system and the new system (SickBooks...er...QuickSand...er...Quickbooks! =) At any rate, he has PILES of Apple II stuff in his backroom that he said he'd give me as I demonstrated SOME use for it. He's also going to give me some sort of HP LaserJet (4P perhaps?) that he says just gives an error and won't even try to print anything. Interesting... =-) Tomorrow I'm going to the hamfest where I almost ALWAYS go home with interesting old antique computer bits and pieces. 3 or 4 years ago it was S-100 boards, last year it was 8" diskettes (lots of them some new). At any rate, I've been able to clean out my basement and make space for the PDPs down here and have had an opportunity to install 10baseT EVERYWHERE. This is one wired-up house! Anthony Clifton, KC0CUE From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 8 21:31:47 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SMD Interface Drives Message-ID: Hi Again, The Sun currently has 2x Fujitsu M2322K drives which appear to be SMD interface drives (on a xylogics 451 controller), is there any way to interface ohter kinds of drives into this interface? Also, I spotted an Apple IIGS for sale in a second-hand place down here, it looked complete but it was labelled "parts only". I asked why and the response was "It doesn't have a startup card", I assume this means disk. They want AUS$60 for it, I was thinking about offering them AUS$30, is this reasonable? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From MicroAge97 at aol.com Sat Aug 8 12:43:39 1998 From: MicroAge97 at aol.com (MicroAge97@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: hello, I think you need a program called catylist.. dave From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 8 15:36:21 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7691937@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- You wrote: Hummm... I saw a large box full of those in an electronics store. Unfortunately, that was about two years ago, and the store is about two hours away by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). And they were charging something like $8 CDN each. The specs listed on the top of my VIC-20 power supply are: INPUT: 117V 47-63Hz 40W OUTPUT: 10VAC 30VA --- end of quote --- I think I'll wind up buying one from somebody else on the list anyway. Thank you though! -- MB ------------------------------------ "YOU! Out of the gene pool!" http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Aug 8 15:48:35 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: <01bdc30d$e9a2e580$0a28a2ce@laptop> Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. manney@lrbcg.com From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Aug 8 16:24:34 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: My Retirement... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980808142434.00e42750@mail.wa.jps.net> At 09:54 08-08-98 -0500, you wrote: >A few people have asked what's the deal? Didn't I retire from collecting >antique computers? I knew it! I keep telling people, 'It's in the genes. If you truly love the field, and the equipment, scrounging is as much a part of you as breathing, and you'll not be able to give it up for any length of time.' Do they believe me? Nooooooo. Not until something like this happens. ;-) Welcome back. Mind the aisleway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From svs at ropnet.ru Sat Aug 8 20:33:01 1998 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Weitek "Multibus Array Processor" board Message-ID: <19980809013301.30556@firepower> G'day, I've come across aforementioned ISA board and some accompanying software. This is really a two-board set, held together firmly with screws. It uses two adjacent 8-bit ISA slots. On the top board the biggest chip is Weitek WTL1066 - a "FP data path" (Floating Point? Field Programmable?). There are no external connectors. How I can test it? Will it work in Pentium-class motherboards? (It currently sits in a computer very much alike the original IBM AT). What can I use it for? Cracking RC5 would be cool :) -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Aug 8 16:51:20 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SE Questions References: <199808080702.AAA07129@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Macintosh SE questions. > Message-ID: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> > > I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > System 7 later...) There is a program called Apple Drive Setup SC or something to that effect which will format and prep 'apple' hard drives. (they rigged it so if the drive does not have an apple ROM it won't format it) but there are ways around that, check out: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ernstoud/scsi.html > Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce > these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? Neither the Mac 800k format is done with a variable speed drive and is practically impossible to emulate in software (PC users can get around this by adding a Copy II PC option Board which bypasses the drive's controller for better flexibility.) My suggestion is to see if you can get a set of SE Superdrive ROMs and a 1.4HD drive for your SE then you can use 1.44 meg disks which CAN be read on a PC (Via MacChette) and also can read PC disks on the Mac (Via Apple File Exchange). :) > (I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format > the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Aug 8 16:59:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply References: <01bdc30d$e9a2e580$0a28a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <35CCCA38.27985E82@bbtel.com> PG Manney wrote: > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > manney@lrbcg.com Try contacting a nearby C= reseller near Louisville, Jim Farris (aka Dr. Feelgood) by the email address lsited on his web site - http://www.aye.net/~feelgood/ He may have one or know who has them. He also has a lot of Amiga items. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 8 16:47:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 7, 98 09:55:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980808/b108ae2b/attachment.ksh From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:17:47 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Altair Attache? Message-ID: <19980809031748.15776.qmail@hotmail.com> Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks offered their input as to what this might be. I was asked to share any information about this unit if it became available to me. I have since acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone who might be interested. Here is the link... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg It was made by Pertec when they were still producing MITS branded systems. The case carries the name "Icom Attache". But the innards are all branded MITS. Even the keyboard. Electronically, it is an Altair 8800b with the addition of a MITS keyboard. It incorporates all the same MITS circuit cards and the same power supply board as the 8800b. For that reason it is essentially a keyboard Altair 8800. The serial number of this example is 153 which leads me to believe that a precious few were produced and it it is probably extremely scarce. I obtained it from an individual who worked for an Altair dealership which was in busuness in 1977 and 78 and he verifies that only a few were sold. I have docs on it. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:19:34 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? Message-ID: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks offered their input as to what this might be. I was asked to share any information about this unit if it became available to me. I have since acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone who might be interested. Here is the link... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg It was made by Pertec when they were still producing MITS branded systems. The case carries the name "Icom Attache". But the innards are all branded MITS. Even the keyboard. Electronically, it is an Altair 8800b with the addition of a MITS keyboard. It incorporates all the same MITS circuit cards and the same power supply board as the 8800b. For that reason it is essentially a keyboard Altair 8800. The serial number of this example is 153 which leads me to believe that a precious few were produced and it is probably extremely scarce. I obtained it from an individual who worked for an Altair dealership which was in busuness in 1977 and 78 and he verifies that only a few were sold. I have docs on it. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 8 22:27:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence > of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks > offered their input as to what this might be. > I was asked to share any information about this > unit if it became available to me. I have since > acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone > who might be interested. > Here is the link... > http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg Wow! That is entirely exciting! What an incredible find. I guess you just proved to all the naysayers that there are still things out there yet to be discovered. Take good care of this one! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 8 22:43:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence > of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks > offered their input as to what this might be. > I was asked to share any information about this > unit if it became available to me. I have since > acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone > who might be interested. You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. In any case, there's a guy who used to work at Pertec who might be able to give you more info. There's a reference to the Icom Attache on his web page: http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM -- Doug From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Aug 8 22:48:27 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 11/04 free; Message-ID: Hiya List: In the process of consolidating/thinning down my out-of-control collection, I think I will place my 11/04 system up for adoption. It is: 11/04 w/operator's console 7266 CPU 8265 CPU MOSTEK memory bd, 8001-H-00, unk (8K?) Plessey mem bd marked 64K depop to 48K 7856 SLU/RTC 7846 RX11 Plessey DMA? (can't remove w/out getting behind rack.) ACT Quad serial I/O unit. Plessey disk controller set and backplane (in seperate BA11 which I'm keeping to use later..) RX01 dual 8" floppy (2 ea) CDC Cealus (Ceali?) top-loading drives, accept RL02 packs (and probably are the same as RL02s) Plessey badged. Battery back-up unit H775A A load of cables, mebbe spare boards, engineering printsets, etc. I am also retaining the DEC rack it's in. I have had this machine partially on the air... it boots into ODT at the console, but I've never tried to boot from the big drives or the floppy. (This machine was removed from service and stored until I bought it, so it *used* to all work... it's not a mongrel system.) THE DEAL: I'm in Southern California. (Malibu). I am looking for a formatter card to use a standard 9-trk drive in a PDP-11/34a system, as well as the inteface card(s) to hook up my big System Industries drive to the '34A. I will disassemble and deliver the above items within a reasonable weekend day's drive, in return for the two devices mentioned (or at LEAST the tape card.) [Other gear related to PDP storage or any MINC stuff will be considered, too..] If, in two or three weeks, there is no response, I will GIVE the 11/04 system to the person who, IMHO, wants it in the worst way, ie. whining, importuning, pleading, tantrums, etc. will be considered..... BUT! given that scenario, you must come and pick it up and cart it off. This is a good 'starter' machine for someone (hopefully) on the list who wants to get going in PDP-land. Note to the adventureous: the combined weight is about 500lb... shipping ain't an option....... Cheers John From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Aug 8 23:05:48 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help Message-ID: Hello List: I have some interlinked questions for the Assembled Gurus: I am trying to understand device adressing in the system as a whole.. is there a good 'base/vector addr for dummies' document I could be pointed at? I have looked (sunsite, etc) and I'm still missing something. I *did* find out how to find the backplane jumper to be removed when installing the RL11... after I discovered it, I notice some kind soul put a red sleeve on the CA1 pin on each of the slots.... Am I correct to assume that RL02s and RK05s can coexist and co-operate in the same system? I am trying to construct a 'fully loaded' PDP11 system, and I want to have the entire range of peripherals available, so that I can perform media and format conversion, as well as have fun running the thing. Will one system support the RX02, 9trk, RL02, RK05, DECTAPE, Paper Tape, consoles and a few terminals, and maybe an Ethernet adapter? I realize this will take a one or two expansion chassis... but am I getting overly ambitious for one CPU? Should there be, maybe, two closely-coupled '11s sharing the load? Eventually I am aiming for a VAX 11/750. Would it be 'better' to wait and use it's resources, whatever they might be? I want to spend a little less time maintaining and a little more time computing... and I'm dying to run some of the DECUS stuff on my Machine. Thanks So Much (in advance) Cheers John From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 23:13:49 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? Message-ID: <19980809041349.1934.qmail@hotmail.com> Doug wrote: >You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while >back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the >Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. Doug, I emailed that guy four times offering to trade an Imsai for his Attache. He never even replied to me. So most likely he is still sitting on it. I am guessing that he received a lot of response so got suspicious about what he had. This is a different one. I was given the name of an Altair dealer and did some detective work and connected with one of it's former employees who had put some stuff in his attic when they closed the doors. I struck up a deal with him and last week drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. That 800 mile straight through return trip just about did me in. I'm getting to old for this. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 8 23:27:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809041349.1934.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > This is a different one. I was given the name of an Altair dealer > and did some detective work and connected with one of it's > former employees who had put some stuff in his attic when > they closed the doors. I struck up a deal with him and > last week drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. > That 800 mile straight through return trip just about did > me in. I'm getting to old for this. Well done, Bob! Miles traveled and pain suffered is a much better measure of the value of a system than mere dollars! Now, please excuse me while I go to work on the guy with the *other* Icom! -- Doug From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 23:36:44 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Altair Attache?? Message-ID: <19980809043645.5089.qmail@hotmail.com> Doug Yowza wrote: You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. Doug, First of all I apologize to everyone on the list for the wasted bandwidth caused by my screwed up posts. I use Hotmail to view the list because you guys are so prolific that it would load up my primary email folders. But Hotmail seems to have a problem with messing up my posts to the list as you can see. Oh well, since I only post to the list every three or four months maybe it will be tolerated. Anyway this was my reply to your message... My Attache is a different one from the one you made reference to. I too emailed that guy but he never replied to me. My guess is that he got a lot of response and got cold feet on the deal. He's most likely still sitting on it. A week ago I made contact with a former employee of an Altair dealer. When they closed the doors he put a bunch of the stuff in his attic. I struck up a deal and drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. The Attache was part of it. I worked for this one. The 800 mile straight through in one day trip just about did me in. I am getting too old for this. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Sun Aug 9 00:02:24 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts Message-ID: So I started playing with my Atari 800. How do I work with disks? And what's the deal with this "Left Cartridge" / "Right Cartridge" thing? How does that work with something where it's obviously inappropriate, like with a 400 or 800XL? ok r. From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 00:05:22 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Millennium Microprocessor Dev. System In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, who needs Altairs. I've got this cool little box that's even more rare than the rarest Altair! (OK, it's not quite as historically interesting, but humor me anyway.) It's made by a (former) company called Millennium Systems Inc., and it's pretty much your basic modular development system with hex keypad, LEDs, and a breadboard. I was hoping somebody had either docs for it (I don't know how the breadboard interacts with the rest of the logic) or any "personality modules" for it (I got it with an 8088 module plugged in). -- Doug From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 00:20:46 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" Message-ID: <19980809052046.6639.qmail@hotmail.com> Came back with one other interesting item. I never knew there was such a thing as a 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here it is... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Minidisk.jpg The bottom photo shows it on top of an Altair 8 inch drive to give you an idea of it's size. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 9 01:42:00 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Aug 9, 98 01:02:24 am Message-ID: <199808090642.XAA22760@saul1.u.washington.edu> > So I started playing with my Atari 800. > > How do I work with disks? And what's the deal with this "Left Cartridge" / > "Right Cartridge" thing? How does that work with something where it's > obviously inappropriate, like with a 400 or 800XL? I'm not an Atari expert -- the only 8-bit Ataris I've used are emulators. But I have read the manuals, so I'll try to help. Also, some of this info is online now. See http://pmwww.cs.vu.nl/home/ipoorten/Atari.8bit.Homepage/index.html Especially, look under DOCUMENTS and download the Atari System Reference Manual. It's pretty well-written and explains a lot. (It is weaker regarding the new machines, but you just have a plain 800 so that should be OK.) Also see http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~sidney/atari/ for some interesting memory maps. Now... in order to work with disks, you must: - Have the disk drive turned on before you turn on the computer. - Have a bootable disk (which contains a boot loader and OS files -- for most versions of the OS these files are DOS.SYS and DUP.SYS). - Turn on the computer and put the disk in the drive. - If BASIC is not installed. you'll see a utility menu (provided by the DUP.SYS program). If BASIC is installed, you'll see BASIC. Type "DOS" to get the utility menu. To get back to BASIC from DOS, I think you press A. See the System Reference Manual for programming info (including the assembly- language interface). As for cartridges, the right slot is only found on the 800 I think. The two slots occupy different blocks of memory. On the XL and XE machines, BASIC is in ROM, but it's in the exact same area as the 800's left cartridge slot. Cartridges can be different sizes (8K or 16K, I think 4K are also allowed) but I don't know how that affects matters on the various machines. Here's a quick memory map based on 6502 pages (1 page = 256 bytes): 0 Zero page. 1 Stack page. 2-5 Used by the OS, BASIC, floating-point routines, etc. 6 Free for your own use. 7-127 Main RAM area -- for machine-language or BASIC programs, DOS, display lists, etc. OS variables MEMLO, MEMTOP, APPMHI create partitions in this memory space. 128-159 Right cartridge slot, or RAM if there's no cartridge there. 160-191 Left cartridge slot, or RAM if there's no cartridge there. (Only cartridge slot on most machines. BASIC ROM on XL and XE, or RAM if BASIC is disabled.) 192-199 Unused. (Chips such as Omnimon go here. On the XL and XE, this is RAM (or cartridge ROM?)). 200-207 Unused. (On the XL and XE, the OS starts here.) 208-215 Registers of the hardware chips (ANTIC, GTIA, Pokey, etc.). 216-223 Possibly more hardware registers, or possibly unused (the manual is contradictory on this point). 224-227 The character set. 228-255 OS ROM on all machines (except for the last eight bytes, which are reserved for 6502 vectors). I think the Atari has a very sensible design, actually (though there are some flaws). With enough looking around on USENET you should be able to find all sorts of fun things to do with your machine. Good luck, -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 9 03:48:38 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts In-Reply-To: <199808090642.XAA22760@saul1.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 8, 98 11:42:00 pm Message-ID: <199808090848.BAA00735@saul9.u.washington.edu> I wrote: > - If BASIC is not installed. you'll see a utility menu (provided by > the DUP.SYS program). If BASIC is installed, you'll see BASIC. > Type "DOS" to get the utility menu. To get back to BASIC from DOS, > I think you press A. I switched machines and fired up the emulator. You actually press B (Run Cartridge) instead of A (Disk Directory). -- Derek From afritz at delphid.ml.org Sun Aug 9 05:04:39 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes Message-ID: This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's got this many people that know what they're talking about... I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK After reading (on this list) that the old HP terminals had something called "block mode", I was wondering what it meant here. Also, what's FDX and HDX? The first thing that came to my mind was Full Duplex and Half Duplex, but I don't know how those would apply. Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and *BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. And it is just generally awkward looking. (And the arrow keys don't work in pine, but that's not terribly critical.) It doesn't act in a logical way at times. What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for the AS/400 (they had a whole mess of IBM twin-ax terminals for that). af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Aug 9 06:42:33 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <000b01bdc38a$cc9baee0$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> There is a very easy free way to get that HD to work. There is a free patch on the web for HD Setup, and it works, just do a search for it. If you cant' find it, I'll jump on my mac and email it to you. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Macintosh SE questions. >[Format floppies with Macintosh] >And then they become 800k disks, which a PC can't read. > >[HDD setup stuff costs more than drive is worth.] >This is another thing I hate, when companies use software checks to enforce >hardware monopolies. That's SOOOO stupid. Any hardware could do, but the >O/S makes sure it's a Genuine XXYZ-Corp. device and barfs if it's not. >Guess I just get to deal with the internal HDD... >(I think it's 20 meg, but it makes scary noises...) >Buying new gear for this is out of the question. > >------- From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 9 09:53:55 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 09:05:48 pm Message-ID: <199808091453.KAA10749@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > Hello List: > > I have some interlinked questions for the Assembled Gurus: > > I am trying to understand device adressing in the system as a > whole.. is there a good 'base/vector addr for dummies' document I > could be pointed at? I have looked (sunsite, etc) and I'm still > missing something. I *did* find out how to find the backplane jumper > to be removed when installing the RL11... after I discovered it, I > notice some kind soul put a red sleeve on the CA1 pin on each of the > slots.... > > Am I correct to assume that RL02s and RK05s can coexist and > co-operate in the same system? No problem. > > I am trying to construct a 'fully loaded' PDP11 system, and I want > to have the entire range of peripherals available, so that I can > perform media and format conversion, as well as have fun running the > thing. > > Will one system support the RX02, 9trk, RL02, RK05, DECTAPE, Paper > Tape, consoles and a few terminals, and maybe an Ethernet adapter? I > realize this will take a one or two expansion chassis... but am I > getting overly ambitious for one CPU? Should there be, maybe, two > closely-coupled '11s sharing the load? > Should be no problem if it's configured correctly. > Eventually I am aiming for a VAX 11/750. Would it be 'better' to > wait and use it's resources, whatever they might be? > Do both. The real trick is to find a Unibus Switch and use the same bus on both! Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 9 10:12:26 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980809081226.00e43280@mail.wa.jps.net> At 03:04 09-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's >got this many people that know what they're talking about... > >I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK > >After reading (on this list) that the old HP terminals had something >called "block mode", I was wondering what it meant here. Also, what's FDX >and HDX? The first thing that came to my mind was Full Duplex and Half >Duplex, but I don't know how those would apply. You're correct on block mode. Block is often used in cases where the host computer downloads an electronic form to the terminal's display. The titles and format of the form itself are protected, so you just fill in the fields and press enter. Away it goes. Example: Most IBM mainframe terminals (the 3270'ish species) are block mode devices. As for FDX and HDX, you're right on with the meanings. Some early host computers couldn't handle full duplex, hence the option for the terminal to do half duplex. Also, HDX will echo what is typed locally; FDX will not. I'm not sure what H-BLK is. >Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and >*BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. >And it is just generally awkward looking. (And the arrow keys don't work >in pine, but that's not terribly critical.) It doesn't act in a logical >way at times. The Wyse 50 can emulate a couple of different terminals. Make sure its emulation setting and what Linux is expecting agree with each other. >What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a Any compatible serial port. ;-) I've seen 'em used on everything from IBM compatibles to big mainframes, and I've also seen them used by my fellow radio hamateurs as packet terminals in conjunction with a TNC and radio. >AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for >the AS/400 (they had a whole mess of IBM twin-ax terminals for that). AS/400's are, as I recall, capable of accomodating serial terminals. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 9 11:11:17 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Adam Fritzler wrote: > This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's > I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK Oh.. those date back to at least 1984 or 85, so you're ok there ;) You're correct on the full/half duplex thing. The half-dup just causes the transmitted keys to display on the screen, without echoing them back from the host. Block allowed you to locally fill in data on the screen, then press a key to xmit the whole screen back to the host. I've never seen anything that used block-mode, besides IBMs and their proprietary terminals. The FDX mode is probably the thing for 98% of what you might connect it to. > Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and > *BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. Somewhere in the setup is an "emulation" parameter. Many of these were configured to emulate Adds terminals. Which had some of the most stupid, agravating, annoying command sequences and quirks ever dreamed up. Set it to WY-50 mode, enable the "enhanced" parameter, and check if your OS has a driver for this setup. It should behave much better. > What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a > AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for Probably one of the most popular dumb terminals ever built... Used with all kinds of multi-user mini and micro systems to this day. Including DEC, DG, Prime, HP, NCR, Pick, Altos, and all flavors of unix platforms. They're not the most reliable things; prone to blowing caps on the crt/psu board after a couple years of service, but easily fixed. -Wayne Cox From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Aug 9 11:09:24 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" In-Reply-To: "Bob Wood"'s message of Sat, 08 Aug 1998 22:20:46 PDT References: <19980809052046.6639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199808091609.JAA17951@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > Came back with one other interesting item. > I never knew there was such a thing as a > 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here > it is... Hmm...why not? I've read that the iCom floppy disk controller was the first 5.25" disk controller for S-100. Not sure if that's true though. -Frank McConnell From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Sun Aug 9 11:35:35 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: I have just colleected a PDP-11/40 which is said to be working apart from the fact that the PSU has been removed. If I can find a PSU in the future then this will be my first 'lights and switches' machine. I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar There is a disk drive with them, but I see from the notice on the back of the drive that it is supposed to be connected to an interface card. As they have no cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. Regards Pete From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Aug 9 12:39:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply References: <199808090702.AAA07070@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CDDEC4.E464BC69@goldrush.com> > From: "PG Manney" > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > manney@lrbcg.com You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 12:45:20 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar There is a disk > drive with them, but I see from the notice on the back of the drive that > it is supposed to be connected to an interface card. As they have no > cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Aug 9 13:39:56 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Q-Bus 18-Bit to 22-Bit wirewrap? Message-ID: <35CDECFC.544C089A@halcyon.com> I have a really compact "PDP-11/23S" chassis that has an 18-bit Q-Bus backplane (4xQuad) in it. Although the circuitry for the Q-Bus is on traces of a PC card, there are also wirewrap pins extending out from the backplane. Am I naive to assume that I can convert this to a 22-bit Q-Bus by wirewrapping four or so lines? Any pointers on how to do this or on technique? Thanks, Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 14:38:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply References: <199808090702.AAA07070@lists4.u.washington.edu> <35CDDEC4.E464BC69@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35CDFABA.6EA44DC4@bbtel.com> I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks like a 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure the voltages are the same though they are in different places. Maybe he can use the C64 power supply and splice his old connector to the end of it? He'd have to have the pinouts of both to do this though. Larry Anderson wrote: > > From: "PG Manney" > > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > > > manney@lrbcg.com > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > Larry Anderson > -- > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 > Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 9 15:19:02 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Trip to Austria/Hungary References: Message-ID: <35CE0436.A95E4454@rain.org> We are heading over to Austria/Hungary at the end of August. While I am over there, I would like to see if I can pick up some of the older computers that might have been popular over that way. Anyone have any information on where to look and what I might expect to find? Even how to find :)! Thanks. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:43:47 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes Message-ID: I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I didn't have a blown powersupply , instead I had managed to short the power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^) However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and BA123 backplanes. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:45:39 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? Message-ID: I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just plug it in? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:48:59 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Trip to Austria/Hungary In-Reply-To: <35CE0436.A95E4454@rain.org> References: Message-ID: Isn't Hungary one of the places that has "Iron Curtain" PDP-11 clones? Zane >We are heading over to Austria/Hungary at the end of August. While I am >over there, I would like to see if I can pick up some of the older >computers that might have been popular over that way. Anyone have any >information on where to look and what I might expect to find? Even how >to find :)! Thanks. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:22:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? Message-ID: Ok, what are all you other Lisa owners talking about? I pulled my Lisa down to check to make sure the batteries haven't spilled out all over the place and didn't find any anywhere, and niether did I find any terminals where batteries would go. I've had this for 6 years now, and last year I featured it in the VCF exhibition and it booted right up, so it makes sense that I don't have a bettery leakage problem, but I'm wondering what other people have in theirs? Maybe mine is a later model Lisa with a different motherboard. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:23:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall >that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a >RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just >plug it in? I know RTF{PDP-11 Sunsite Docs} :^) OK, I figured that part out on my own, so am following up my original question with another question. What I've got are Teac FD-55GFR-149-U drives, which I see from the document on 3rd party disks can be used as RX33's. So, can a RX33 read RX50 disks? At this time, I don't care about being able to write them, just read them. Don't be to surprised if I come back with some questions on 3rd party Q-Bus floppy controllers :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:25:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <35CDFABA.6EA44DC4@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks > like a 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure > the voltages are the same though they are in different places. Larry was suggesting he de-solder the Plus/4 connector and replace it with a C64 connector, which is pin compatible with the Plus/4 connector. > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > > From: "PG Manney" > > > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > > > > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > > > > > manney@lrbcg.com > > > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > > > Larry Anderson > > -- > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 > > Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 9 16:37:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SE Questions In-Reply-To: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <13378493122.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Get a 1.44 meg device...] Oh, are the floppies normal PC-issue parts? I also have a Powerbook 150, but the floppy's trash... Can I just shove a PC device in there? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 9 12:50:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 09:05:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980809/c958bce6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 9 12:35:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: 11/04 free; In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 08:48:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980809/5acfb7a1/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:51:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: SE Questions In-Reply-To: <13378493122.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> Message-ID: >[Get a 1.44 meg device...] > >Oh, are the floppies normal PC-issue parts? I also have a Powerbook 150, >but the floppy's trash... Can I just shove a PC device in there? >------- Uh, no. In fact I've seen complete Macintosh systems with a 1.44Mb floppy for less than what a new floppy drive would set you back! The thing to remember is that these are self ejecting drives. If you've ever installed MS Office from floppy on both a Mac and a PC, you'll be convinced that the drives are worth the extra expense :^) In the case of the PowerBook 150, I think you've got to have a PB150 drive :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From afritz at delphid.ml.org Sun Aug 9 17:15:31 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980809081226.00e43280@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 03:04 09-08-98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK > > You're correct on block mode. Block is often used in cases where the host > computer downloads an electronic form to the terminal's display. The titles > and format of the form itself are protected, so you just fill in the fields > and press enter. Away it goes. Anywhere I can get documentation on this block mode? Sounds like it might be fun to mess with... Did the wy50 have it's own codes for block or was there some "standard"? (Somhow I doubt that, though.) af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:55:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Ok, what are all you other Lisa owners talking about? I pulled my Lisa >down to check to make sure the batteries haven't spilled out all over the >place and didn't find any anywhere, and niether did I find any terminals >where batteries would go. Sam, What model Lisa do you have? From what I've heard it's only a problem if you have a Lisa 2/5 (the Lisa 2 sold with the 5Mb external Profile drive). This is the model I've got, and I can guarentee that it is a SERIOUS problem with this model. The thing to remember is that you've got 4 different models of the Lisa: Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives Lisa 2 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy Lisa 2/5 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 5Mb external Profile HD Lisa 2/10 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 10 Mb internal Widget HD drive NOTE: not to sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:59:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > What model Lisa do you have? From what I've heard it's only a problem if > you have a Lisa 2/5 (the Lisa 2 sold with the 5Mb external Profile drive). > This is the model I've got, and I can guarentee that it is a SERIOUS > problem with this model. I never got around to figuring out what model it is. I always assumed it was a 2/5, but perhaps its a 2/10. Was the 2/10 very much later than the 2/5? > The thing to remember is that you've got 4 different models of the Lisa: > > Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives > Lisa 2 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy > Lisa 2/5 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 5Mb external Profile HD > Lisa 2/10 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 10 Mb internal Widget HD drive Oh! Ok, well then I have a 2/10. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 18:20:51 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions Message-ID: Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Any one have info on this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? How well do Boards with Boot ROMs co-exist with systems with another set of Boot ROMs? I'm threatening to throw the DQ606 in the 11/23 that I'm working on, so I can access the rack of drives that go with the controller. Well, I'm off to work on archiving some RX-50 floppies prior to actually trying to use them. Hopefully they're readable! So this should be a break in my steady stream of questions :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 9 17:44:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" Message-ID: <199808092244.AA10004@world.std.com> < > Came back with one other interesting item. < > I never knew there was such a thing as a < > 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here < > it is... < < Hmm...why not? I've read that the iCom floppy disk controller < was the first 5.25" disk controller for S-100. Not sure if < that's true though. It was the ICOM via pertec purchase and integrated into the altair line. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 17:47:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives [...] > NOTE: not too sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. Don't know about widget, but shouldn't flippy be twiggy? -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 19:33:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives >[...] >> NOTE: not too sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. > >Don't know about widget, but shouldn't flippy be twiggy? Um, yeah, that's it :^) Zane >-- Doug | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 19:35:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I never got around to figuring out what model it is. I always assumed it >was a 2/5, but perhaps its a 2/10. Was the 2/10 very much later than the >2/5? It's my understanding that the 2, 2/5, and 2/10 all came out at the same time. Basically it's a case of configuration. >Oh! Ok, well then I have a 2/10. Which I believe is why you've not seen the problem. Though the internal drive sounds more troublesome. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 9 18:46:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Last chance: Free Printwheels Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980809164654.00e41520@mail.wa.jps.net> OK, gang, last chance! I have a pair of printwheels compatible with either the Diablo/Xerox 635 series printers or the Xerox 60 series MemoryWriters. They are NOT compatible with the MemoryWriter 600 series. I have one each, Courier 10 and Courier 12. Whoever wants them, they're yours for the cost of postage ($3.00 USPS Priority Mail). Let me know. If I don't hear anything by Tuesday night this week (the 11th), they're going in the trash. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Aug 9 19:38:11 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. You're weird > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 9 19:40:05 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Pete Joules wrote: I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar --- end of quote --- Just out of curiosity, what's a ][Eurostar? -- MB From Joshu2415 at aol.com Sun Aug 9 20:00:51 1998 From: Joshu2415 at aol.com (Joshu2415@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: old laptop Message-ID: The auction is called off. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 20:02:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Which I believe is why you've not seen the problem. Though the internal > drive sounds more troublesome. Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was required? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 20:21:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that will handle the job? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 20:22:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) References: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Francois wrote: > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > You're weird That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 21:27:16 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: IMSAI part needed In-Reply-To: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: This is a long shot, I know, but I need that part of an IMSAI case that attaches below the front-panel. It wouldn't be too hard to fabricate, but I'd prefer the real thing (actually, even better than the real thing would be the clone part from a TEI case, since it's my TEI clone that's missing this part). -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 21:50:46 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <199808100202.WAA00762@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35CE6005.5E24DEE5@bbtel.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > If anyone has that driver could they send it to me, too? I have a Tandy > 1000TL 286 XT w/768K RAM, and no way to access it. Maybe the driver will > work in it, too. Maybe it won't - but it's worth a shot :-) Hmm, maybe I ought to check the Tandy support site...I'll send jason a copy should I locate one, don't worry about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 9 21:58:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. >> >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > >You're weird No, he's perfectly normal for California! Joe From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:18:05 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809231026.006caaec@netpath.net> Sometimes I see an EMM.SYS file on older DOS disks, but I can't recall which DOS disks. (Maybe IBM, or DR, or something else... At 08:21 PM 8/9/98 -0500, Russ Blakeman wrote: >Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, >with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a >special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an >animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that >will handle the job? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:18:08 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type connectors. Maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow. I love these yearly Hospice Flea Markets: Everything starts off at full price, Friday and Saturday. Sunday, all the prices drop by 50%, Monday, you give them a few bucks, and they'll let you cart off anything that is left. I hope the tradition still stands this year. I saw a Timex Sinclair 1000 (black, mebrane keyboard) along with some cassettes and mem expansion boxes for $5.00. If it's still there, I might pick it up if someone wants it. (What?!? He's not putting it on ebay to get $500.00 bucks for it? Is he crazy???) Yes I are! - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:32:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809233157.006c1398@netpath.net> Looking for some manuals for MKS Toolkit. It was a set of Unix utils packaged with a Korn shell that all ran under it's own command shell. Anyone ever hear of it? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:40:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > > > You're weird > > That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. Oh jeez. You don't have to tell me I'm beautiful. But then you will have to pay postage. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:45:36 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. So this is either a 1000HX or 1000EX. In all my travels, the only expansion cards I've ever seen were IN the computer. So your best bet is to scrounge around for Tandy 1000's of all different flavors (of which there are many) and check the back for serial expansion cards. Once you've found one, you can probably get the whole unit for under $10. You can then harvest the card and use the rest of the computer for parts or as part of your collection, cataloged under the "Barely Interesting" category. That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed where the serial port is on the back. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:46:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809233157.006c1398@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Looking for some manuals for MKS Toolkit. > > It was a set of Unix utils packaged with a Korn shell that all ran under > it's own command shell. > > Anyone ever hear of it? Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 9 22:47:14 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > will handle the job? Have you scanned the files in simtelnet/msdos/xxxx - accessible via oak.oakland.edu for files related to 'expamded memory' or 'ems'? - don > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:58:03 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> At 08:45 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed >where the serial port is on the back. Errr, I was pretty thorough. That's why I set it back down, because I saw no way to hook a modem to it. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:58:06 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809235750.006c1098@netpath.net> At 08:46 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and >kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? Uhh, what's the web??? :) Didn't think about doing a search, because of the age of the disks (1990). Will see what I find. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From ian at okjunc.junction.net Sun Aug 9 23:07:14 1998 From: ian at okjunc.junction.net (Ian McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. I actually owned one of these when it was new! Back then the only cards I ever saw were from Radio Shack. They made a serial card that would work fine for you. The unit will take up to 3 expansion cards. They piggy-back on top of each other via a header-type plug. The pin-outs are exactly the same as a PC slot, but a different connector. I have come across cards in my travels that have a standard PC connector on it, but also a place to solder on a header plug (the empty pads are there) - I've often wondered if these cards would work in a HX. ___ __ __ __ _ _ _ _ |_ _|__ _ _ _ | \/ / _| | __ _ _ _ __ _| |_ | (_)_ _ Okanagan | |/ _` | ' \ | |\/| \__| |_/ _` | | / _` | ' \| | | ' \ Internet |___\__,_|_||_| |_| |_| |___\__,_|___\__, |_||_|_|_|_||_| Junction Network Operations Centre |___/ Phone +1 (888) 944-INET From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 9 23:11:56 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809235750.006c1098@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Aug 9, 98 11:58:06 pm Message-ID: <199808100411.AAA08689@shell.monmouth.com> > > At 08:46 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and > >kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? > > Uhh, what's the web??? :) Didn't think about doing a search, because of the > age of the disks (1990). Will see what I find. > > - > - john higginbotham ____________________________ > - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > - limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > $ whois mks.com Registrant: Mortice Kern Systems Inc (MKS-DOM) 185 Columbia St W Waterloo, ON N2L 5Z5 CA Domain Name: MKS.COM Administrative Contact: White, Alex (AW120) ALEX@MKS.COM (519) 884-2251 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Toy, Andy (AT6) andy@MKS.COM +1 519 883-4333 Billing Contact: White, Alex (AW120) ALEX@MKS.COM (519) 884-2251 Record last updated on 08-Jun-98. Record created on 25-Jul-89. Database last updated on 9-Aug-98 03:38:59 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.1 NS.MKS.COM 198.73.192.2 AUTH01.NS.UU.NET 198.6.1.81 NS2.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.5 $ nslookup www.mks.com Server: dns1.monmouth.com Address: 205.231.236.1 Name: www.mks.com Address: 198.73.192.5 Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 10 00:54:54 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or >at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the >machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was >required? I would assume so. After all I can boot my 2/5 off of it's Profile drive, so the 2/10 should boot off of its internal. All I can say is good luck finding a drive, I gather they're harder to find that the floppies for the Lisa 1. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 00:54:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: Message-ID: <35CE8B26.A0CE3207@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Have you scanned the files in simtelnet/msdos/xxxx - accessible via > oak.oakland.edu for files related to 'expamded memory' or 'ems'? > I guess that's my next place to look....Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Mon Aug 10 01:45:41 1998 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) Is the image on the screen wrapping off of the edges, or is it all within a well-defined rectangle at the center of the screen? If it is the former, then it does sound like a horizontal sync problem; however, if it is the latter, then your Lisa has probably been fitted with the "screen kit upgrade", which changes the screen resolution from the Lisa's standard 720 x 364 to 608 x 431 to better approximate the Macintosh pixel shape and aspect ratio. The Office System doesn't recognize the "upgrade" and still writes to video memory assuming that it is in the original format, yielding a garbled screen. If you can find a copy of MacWorks, try it out. If MacWorks runs, then you will need to downgrade the upgrade (with original system ROMs, the video state "ROM", and the removal of the transformer included in the screen kit upgrade from the video circuit) to make this system run the Office System. > Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it > connect to one of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) > And to what should it be connected? The corroded nicad pack you mentioned earlier is a "feature" of the 2/5. On a 2/5, you should be able to plug a ProFile into the built-in parallel port, without using an expansion slot/card at all. A straight-through wired DB-25M - DB-25M cable (with pin 7 cut off on one end) should do the trick. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 9 02:41:29 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (desieh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <01ab01bdc369$28d6f380$de173ccb@6pac> -----Original Message----- From: MicroAge97@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, 9 August 1998 3:45 Subject: Re: Apple III & Profile >hello, > >I think you need a program called catylist.. > >dave > Hello but cant prodos access drives up to 32MB if size? *Desie* From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 9 02:43:15 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (desieh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... Message-ID: <01be01bdc369$66a650c0$de173ccb@6pac> -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, 8 August 1998 12:17 Subject: Re: LISA: Ah nuts... >>I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) >>and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped >>down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard >>have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is > > >Oh, bleep. Let me guess you've got a Lisa 2/5. They're infamous for this >problem. I was able to get to mine just prior to the batteries really >messing stuff up. This is most likely the cause of your problems, any >chance of reparing the damage? > >>At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the >>board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a >>viable replacement for them? > >No, you can boot without them. IIRC it's a _slight_ annoyance not having >them, but it does work. Besides the clock won't go past 1995 so who cares >if that is wrong :^) > >>Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. >>Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should >>be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and >>an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one >>of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what >>should it be connected? > >I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on >the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem >is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't >remember what it is :^( > > Zane > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > Just a standard PC parallel cable should do the job.. *Desie* From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 03:02:51 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Sega AI Game Computer In-Reply-To: <01be01bdc369$66a650c0$de173ccb@6pac> Message-ID: Are you ready for this? Remember the Japanese and their lovable wack-o Fifth Generation projects? Oh, this is good. From a friend of mine: << Back in the heyday of AI in the early 80's, Sega was just a brand-new, fledgling game company. They did a stint with AI, and one of their earliest projects was the Sega "AI Game Computer", a little Prolog machine. The components are a flat touch screen with a cassette player/recorder(?) and a slot for inserting the game cards. It also comes with a small keyboard, where all the keys have both English and Japanese characters (I suspect this machine was only sold in Japan.) It also comes with an adaptor to plug it in to your TV, which acts as your monitor. Finally, it comes with several "game cartridges" which are completely exposed boards (no casing around them) that you insert into a slot. Only the first half inch or so goes into the slot - the rest of the naked board sticks straight up, totally exposed above the touch screen. >> Sounds like a prototype to me (and a *very* cool one). Anybody have more info? -- Doug From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Aug 10 03:25:17 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: >Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people are >mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives without >either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came with >the drive. From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 05:42:26 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 9, 98 03:20:51 pm Message-ID: <199808101042.GAA06847@user2.infinet.com> > > Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide > this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". So I've been told. > Any one have info on > this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? > It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can > just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. Presuming that it can be strapped at the alternate address (DLB0 on a uVAX, for example. Dunno the CSR), it should work fine. I always wanted to do this, but never had the jumper map to try it out. I figured I'd have to boot off of floppy, build a disk image on the DQ614 and then put a real RLV12 strapped to the alternate address on the system to copy data. > What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? The one I have used to have a Rodime 10 Mb 5.25" full-height MFM drive attached to it. I'd love to hear if an ST-251 would work. > Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter > marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really > want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. It's an ST-506 interface - 20 pin for analog data (one per drive, up to 4 supported, depending on the exact nature of the controller in question), and 34 pin (digital signals) for control (one per controller, including up to 4 drive select wires). > Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? Almost certainly not. It is a register-level emulation of the RLV11 or RLV12 (don't know which one). It would use the regular DL boot ROM on your system. > Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? No idea. If anyone out there has any data on this controller, please step forward. I've already checked with the RSX BBS web page, where several Dilog boards have had their documentation scanned in, but not the 614. I've had this card for over 10 years, known what it is, but unable to use it. I got it for free in a discarded "Dataram" PDP-11 clone. My former employer bought this as a tiny RSX system, w/11/23+ CPU, and DQ614 and half-height 8" floppy (with 3rd party controller), and it never worked right. Dataram weaseled out of supporting it under warranty, and I got to take home the corpse. After I fixed the lifted lead from the power connector, the 8" floppy booted much faster ;-) The box itself is kinda nice. It's rack mountable (10.5" tall) or table-top, with the included sides. There's a hole in the front panel for a half-height 8" floppy, and room inside for a 5.25" disk. It was the first enclosude that I ever saw for a DEC CPU, but for industry-standard peripherals. Other than the 8" floppy, a BA-23 is probably a better box. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 05:54:38 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 9, 98 01:43:47 pm Message-ID: <199808101054.GAA06929@user2.infinet.com> > However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the > backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC > had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and > remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and > BA123 backplanes. The BA-23 has 3 "CD" slots (Q-bus only on A and B, CD interconnect on C and D), and 6 "regular" Q-bus slots, with the Q-bus alternating from side to side. IIRC, the BA-123 has 5 CD slots, the rest standard. For anyone collecting FAQs, this is one. I can't recall how many times I've sent out an ASCII drawing on the backplane. I with I'd kept one. :-( -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 07:01:20 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: $!!!! Re: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980807104846.489f143c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 7, 98 10:48:46 am Message-ID: <199808101201.IAA07593@user2.infinet.com> Joe writes: > At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out > >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from > >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 > >which has already been met! > > > They don't call it E-Pay for nothing! I thought it was "E-overpay". -ethan From altair8800 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:19:11 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Altair prices! Message-ID: <19980810121912.14963.qmail@hotmail.com> No, I'm not talking about Ebay prices. Instead I thought you might be interested in seeing an original Altair Price list from July,1976. Here's the link to a jpeg of it... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/25.jpg We have heard that the 680 was a failure because the 16k memory card for it cost more than the computer. Take a look at this list and you will see it in black and white. The 680 computer kit cost $466 ($625 assembled). The 16K memory card cost a staggering $685 as a kit and $865 assembled. That is a whopping $43 per 1k of memory. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 08:05:18 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX References: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35CEF00D.260C6AD1@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. > > Maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow. I love these yearly Hospice Flea Markets: > Everything starts off at full price, Friday and Saturday. Sunday, all the > prices drop by 50%, Monday, you give them a few bucks, and they'll let you > cart off anything that is left. I hope the tradition still stands this > year. I saw a Timex Sinclair 1000 (black, mebrane keyboard) along with some > cassettes and mem expansion boxes for $5.00. If it's still there, I might > pick it up if someone wants it. (What?!? He's not putting it on ebay to get > $500.00 bucks for it? Is he crazy???) Yes I are! The EX and HX cards, aka "Plus" cards are VERY hard to come by. I have a regular traffic of Tandy 1000 products through here and have only seen two HX's with hard drives, 3 with serial cards and most with the memory expansion. Many times when someone has one and is aware of their demand and low supply, they try to get E-Bay prices for this stuff. Tons of HX and EX units out there, most were not upgraded to hard drives. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 08:10:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX References: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35CEF12F.16DEEC3@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:45 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed > >where the serial port is on the back. > > Errr, I was pretty thorough. That's why I set it back down, because I saw > no way to hook a modem to it. If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be next (usually 25 pin) and then the HD controller after that. Why they are like this I have no idea, not sure if the unit wa smade specifically this way. There's a index of specification sheets at http://support.tandy.com/support_computer/1080.htm if you're curious about the machine from stock to add-ons. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:08:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MIT flea, Message-ID: <199808101308.AA26455@world.std.com> I plan to be at the MIT FLEA sunday the 16th, with loads of goodies for older systems and a stack of vax 3100s. Also over the weekend I scored a pair of compupro boxes one with 8085/8088 and the other 68000 based. Also a heath HW207 8" disk (dual drive) pragmatic designs 20mb sa4000 style disk Hard disks mfm software, software, software and manuals. enough Compupro boards to build another three systems A few intergrand disk boxen some DD DS 8" drives 8" 2S Media! A few Telvideo 9xx series terminals. If people need DOCs for compupro boards (ANY!!!) I have docs for them and a few others. Also I have a line on a ANADEX wide platen (15") printer that has serial/parallel interface. I have to many already. It's a nice one if you need something that takes wide paper. Not shipable (cheaply that is, as it would have to be crated to assure "arrive alive".) It's not that heavy but large. Allison From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 08:14:49 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <35CEF00D.260C6AD1@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980810091449.007ffc50@netpath.net> At 08:05 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >with hard drives, 3 with serial cards and most with the memory expansion. Many >times when someone has one and is aware of their demand and low supply, they >try to get E-Bay prices for this stuff. Tons of HX and EX units out there, most >were not upgraded to hard drives. Hard drive doesn't bother me so much. I can run everything I need off a floppy, but if the cards are that hard to come by, I think I'll pass on it if I can't get it for less than $5. From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 08:16:54 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <35CEF12F.16DEEC3@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980810091654.007ff740@netpath.net> At 08:10 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's >been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be I slid the cover back, nothing there, which is what I assumed, since I saw no ports sticking out the back. Funny, even the CoCo series had a serial port on the back. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:26:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Altair prices! Message-ID: <199808101326.AA10300@world.std.com> < We have heard that the 680 was a failure < because the 16k memory card for it cost more than < the computer. Take a look at this list and you It was a failure because MITS as per their style had a nifty box that not SS50. By that time SWTP and others had accepted SS50 as the bus for 6800 and later 6809 systems. The 680 however was without question industrial strength but it's bus was totally unique to the 680, that type of this was VERY unpopular concept back then. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:54:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: TI99: ftp sites Message-ID: <199808101354.AA02243@world.std.com> < To be honest, I think that programming a SLIP interface would be a < complete waste of time. No service providers I know of allow SLIP < connections anymore. PPP would be the better choice. Please, dont say that... all my net access is using slip (actaully slirp). Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 10 08:59:40 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MIT flea, Message-ID: <199808101417.KAA14196@charity.harvard.net> Allison, I'll be there too. Maybe we can talk about S-100 cards then. :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 9:09 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: MIT flea, > > > I plan to be at the MIT FLEA sunday the 16th, with loads of > goodies for > older systems and a stack of vax 3100s. > > Also over the weekend I scored a pair of compupro boxes one > with 8085/8088 > and the other 68000 based. > > Also a heath HW207 8" disk (dual drive) > pragmatic designs 20mb sa4000 style disk > Hard disks mfm > software, software, software and manuals. > enough Compupro boards to build another three systems > A few intergrand disk boxen > some DD DS 8" drives > 8" 2S Media! > A few Telvideo 9xx series terminals. > > If people need DOCs for compupro boards (ANY!!!) I have docs for them > and a few others. > > Also I have a line on a ANADEX wide platen (15") printer that has > serial/parallel interface. I have to many already. It's a > nice one if > you need something that takes wide paper. Not shipable (cheaply that > is, as it would have to be crated to assure "arrive alive".) > It's not > that heavy but large. > > Allison > From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Aug 10 10:03:58 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: PDP 11/44 system available In-Reply-To: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> References: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> Message-ID: <35cf0b9b.1090142291@smtp.wa.jps.net> Good Lord... all of a sudden, they're popping up all over the place. Contact this fellow directly if you'd like an 11/44. -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:16:38 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>Message-ID: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> >>From: Asa Wilson >>Reply-To: awilson@tessellabs.com >>Organization: TesselLabs >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: PDP 11/44 system available >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Lines: 6 >>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:16:38 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.74.130.98 >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:16:38 CDT >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!uunet!in1.uu.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!news1.i1.net!not-for-mail >> >>I am trying to dispose of a complete PDP 11/44 system. A flyer >>describing the system can be viewed at http://tessellabs.com/decflyrf. >> >>Asa Wilson >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 10 12:26:49 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: PDP 11/44 system available In-Reply-To: <35cf0b9b.1090142291@smtp.wa.jps.net> from "kyrrin@jps.net" at Aug 10, 98 03:03:58 pm Message-ID: <199808101726.KAA27099@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/1efc4eb5/attachment.ksh From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Aug 10 13:31:25 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? References: Message-ID: <35CF3C7D.8428F5D3@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall > that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a > RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just > plug it in? Jerome Fine replies: The only time I did this, it just worked. But then, I was using an actual RX23 from DEC. Plus, you MUST have an RQDX3 controller. An RQDX2 and an RQDX1 WILL NOT WORK with an RX33. Plus, if you want to WRITE to the floppy, you MUST (I have not tried anything else, but I have been strongly advised) use the HD 5 1/4" floppy disks. The hardware format is identical to that for the PC and the number if blocks is 2400 instead of only 800 for an RX50. If you are able to get the first RX33 working and you do not like the open aspect of the drive, I have seen a second RX33 drive mounted along with the first RX33 - both right side up - inside the shell of the RX50 dual that you have which does not work very well. This solves the problem of protecting an open drive. I do have 3 spare RX50s which I could trade. I had been keeping them for a while and now that much of the PDP-11 software can be run on a PC, the RX50s are no longer as important. If you still want to use the RX50 media, you can FORMAT them (MAKE SURE THEY ARE DSDD floppy diskettes) on the PC using a program called PUTR (written by John Wilson): http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, you MUST use a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive. You can also read and write both RX50 and RX33 floppy diskettes on the PC with an RT-11 file structure. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 14:20:33 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Q-Bus 18-Bit to 22-Bit wirewrap? Message-ID: <199808101920.AA26841@world.std.com> Please pardon if this has already been answered... I've been away for a week at the Worldcon (world science fiction convention) >I have a really compact "PDP-11/23S" chassis that has an 18-bit Q-Bus >backplane (4xQuad) in it. Although the circuitry for the Q-Bus is on >traces of a PC card, there are also wirewrap pins extending out from >the backplane. Am I naive to assume that I can convert this to a >22-bit Q-Bus by wirewrapping four or so lines? Any pointers on how to >do this or on technique? Not naive at all... I've done it on at least one of my H9270 backplanes at home... I know of many others who have as well. If I remember correctly, you need to buss the BC-BF lines (and for Q-Q backplanes, DC-DF), but I would have to verify this... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 14:30:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Heath H-89 in Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <35CF3C7D.8428F5D3@idirect.com> Message-ID: Please reply directly to the seller (it might be free, I don't know): << If you are interested in acquiring a Heath H-89, we can talk. I have one that I have taken out of service a while back; it has hard sector controller as well as I got source code for one of the several levels of HDOS. Austin, Tx is location. Howard Glueck (glueck@austin.ibm.com) >> From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Aug 10 14:33:27 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13378732660.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Twiggy] What's a twiggy? ------- From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 14:34:17 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions Message-ID: <199808101934.AA08183@world.std.com> >Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field >Guide this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Any one have >info on this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives >attached? It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive >if I can just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. They should work, but only if you set them up to run at an address different from the standard address for RLseries disks. >How well do Boards with Boot ROMs co-exist with systems with another set >of Boot ROMs? I'm threatening to throw the DQ606 in the 11/23 that I'm >working on, so I can access the rack of drives that go with the >controller. Depending on the boot rom, a standard address is 773000. You can't have two sets of boards which respond the this address (and there isn't a standard I am aware of for assigning alternate boot code to an address). On systems which I have configured which had boot code on the controller card, the standard boot code had to be disabled. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Aug 10 14:58:54 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? Message-ID: <1998Aug10.155637.1767.127596@smtp.itgonline.com> The LISA (1) originally shipped with dual 5 1/4" floppy drives which were nick-named twiggy drives. I don't have all the gory details but Apple manufactured these drives and they were a disaster. All the information you need can be found at Eric Smith's web site entitled Twiggy Disk information: www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/lisa/twiggy.html Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Lisa battery leakage?? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/10/98 3:36 PM [Twiggy] What's a twiggy? ------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug10.153640.1767.56401; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:36:41 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA06303; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:17 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id MAA71918 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:13 -0700 Received: from toad.xkl.com (toad.xkl.com [192.94.202.40]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA15603 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:12 -0700 Message-Id: <13378732660.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Aug 10 15:35:23 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Fw: Free CoCo3 to good home Message-ID: <013501bdc49e$6d9e2700$a127a2ce@cgregory> >Hi all, > >I'm moving soon, and want to get my old CoCo3, monitor, disk drive, and more >to a good home. I live in the Laurel, Maryland area, and the whole >kit-and-kaboodle is yours for free -- all you have to do is email me at > >russett@russettweb.com.nospam > >(remove .nospam) > >to arrange the pick-up. The CoCo3 and monitor work great. I'm not sure if >the disk controller is still working. I also have the old RS-232 interface >cartridge, hi res joystick interface (I think I can find it), and two or >three games to give away. > >Thanks, > >...Allen > > > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 10 15:53:12 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35CF5DB8.C096482D@rain.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > an > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > will handle the job? Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 computers, but don't know about XTs. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 10 16:03:43 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) References: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35CF602F.6BE6A5D5@rain.org> I would be more inclined to say Sam has a sense of humor! Joe wrote: > > At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge > one. > >> > >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you > one. > > > >You're weird > > No, he's perfectly normal for California! From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 12:59:24 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 9 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > --- Pete Joules wrote: > I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar > --- end of quote --- > > Just out of curiosity, what's a ][Eurostar Sorry, I was totally confused when I posted that. One is an Apple ][ Europlus (Eurostar is the train which goes under the sea to France :) and the other is a //e. They appear to have _totally_ different motherboards so I don't know if they are variants of the same beast or not. I know nothing about Apples prior to the Mac but am keen to learn - the attraction of this hobby to me is to play with things which I know nothing about. Regards Pete From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 12:51:29 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > > > You're weird > > That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. > I didn't say that he was, someone else did. I replied privately pointing out that the only potential problem is that I live in the UK. Perhaps that may be less of a problem if I publicly say what a nice person Sam is for offering :) Regards Pete From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 10 13:12:26 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions" (Aug 10, 6:42) References: <199808101042.GAA06847@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <9808101912.ZM15696@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 10, 6:42, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Subject: Re: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions > On Sun Aug 9, 15:20, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide > > this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Yes, it is. I think I might have been responsible for that highly informative entry ;-) > > Any one have info on > > this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? > > It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can > > just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. > > Presuming that it can be strapped at the alternate address (DLB0 on a uVAX, > for example. Dunno the CSR), it should work fine. It needs a different PROM to switch the address/vector. The standard PROM at U38 is labelled 91265D (according to my old notes) and the alternate-address PROM is labelled 91578A (old notes again). YMMV :-) > > What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? > > The one I have used to have a Rodime 10 Mb 5.25" full-height MFM drive > attached to it. I'd love to hear if an ST-251 would work. Again, it should. It should be capable of using up to two ST-412 interface drives to emulate up to four RL02s, though I never tried mine with more than one. IIRC there's a small overhead, so you need slightly more than 20MB to emulate two drives. > > Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter > > marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really > > want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. > > It's an ST-506 interface - 20 pin for analog data (one per drive, up to 4 > supported, depending on the exact nature of the controller in question), > and 34 pin (digital signals) for control (one per controller, including > up to 4 drive select wires). Two physical drives, in this case. > > Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? > > Almost certainly not. It is a register-level emulation of the RLV11 or RLV12 > (don't know which one). It would use the regular DL boot ROM on your system. It does have a bootstrap, but I think the emulation is RLV11 (it's to old to be RLV12, I think). You can switch the bootstrap off, though. The code will boot either a DY or DL device. > > Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? > > No idea. Me neither. I don't have the full docs, just a pair of layout diagrams, switch table, and a few bits about formatting. Unfortnately, all the formatting stuff seems to use a program which I don't think I have handy. At the back end of the board is either a 34+20 pin connector, or two individual headers. As Ethan said, the 34-way is the control bus (daisy-chained like floppies for multiple drives) and the 20-way is the data. J3 is the second 20-pin data connector (for the second physical drive). Pin 1 of the 34-way connector is the end nearest the LED, and the other connectors are fitted in the same orientation. There are five switches: S1 ON = ECC used to transparently correct errors where possible OFF = ECC ignored; used for diagnostics S2 ON = bootstrap enabled OFF = bootstrap disabled S3,S4 Identify the last logical RL unit on physical drive 0. So the settings are as follows: S3 S4 Physical 0 Physical 1 off off DL0 Dl1, DL2, DL3 off on DL0, DL1 DL2, DL3 on off DL0, DL1, DL2 DL3 on on DL0, DL1, DL2, DL3 S5 ON = use secondary address for bootstrap ROM: 175000 OFF = use primary address for bootstrap ROM: 173000 Factory setting is all switches off. There are 10 jumpers: JP1 (near U22) removed (etch cut) allows data loopback for diagnostics. JP2 (near U32) removed (etch cut) aborts controller pre-comp logic when writing, for diagnostics. JP3,4,5 (near U70) sets interrupt levels: level JP3 JP4 JP5 4 B-C B-C B-C 5 B-C B-C A-B 6 B-C A-B B-C 7 A-B A-B B-C JP6 (near U22) "Must be removed" JP7 (near U22) "Must be removed" JP8 (near U5) "Must be removed" JP9 (near U32) "Must be installed" JP (near U32) "A-B must be installed, A-C must be removed" There's also a socket for a special (customer) bootstrap at U38. That's about all I can tell you, I'm afraid. I'll have a look for a copy of the formatting program (which came on an RT11 floppy, I think) but I'm not hopeful... I don't have the controller any longer. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 16:36:09 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer Message-ID: With these beasts I was also given a centronics printer cable but there seems to be nowhere to plug it in. Is this something which also needs an interface card? Regards Pete From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 12:40:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 9, 98 08:40:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/4539f0b8/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 17:19:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed Message-ID: <35CF7203.B94E60FF@bbtel.com> There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) and if you can help this person please send email to ruthrob@cyberhighway.net -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 17:27:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> <35CF5DB8.C096482D@rain.org> Message-ID: <35CF73E0.5B97344F@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > computers, but don't know about XTs. We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 10 17:45:40 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: It's very likely that no commercial utility will work on this board, it probably shipped with its own chipset-specific drivers. There were some alternative drivers such as The Last Byte, but they worked only on certain 286 chipsets (e.g. C&T) Kai (for whom EMS was once a technical specialty, boy that brings back painful memories) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 3:28 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Marvin wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > computers, but don't know about XTs. We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 18:15:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > With these beasts I was also given a centronics printer cable but there > seems to be nowhere to plug it in. Is this something which also needs an > interface card? Yes, and it could go to any one of a large number of different printer interfaces manufactured for the Apple ][ over the years. The chances of finding a match are not great. You'll just have to run into a printer interface at a radio rally that comes with its own cable. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 17:08:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: from "Pete Joules" at Aug 10, 98 06:59:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1252 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/82c11d2f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 17:11:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer In-Reply-To: from "Pete Joules" at Aug 10, 98 10:36:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/038d36dc/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Aug 10 18:37:36 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CF602F.6BE6A5D5@rain.org> References: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199808102337.XAA09917@cyber2.servtech.com> At 14:03 10-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >I would be more inclined to say Sam has a sense of humor! > >Joe wrote: >> >> At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge >> one. >> >> >> >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you >> one. >> > >> >You're weird >> >> No, he's perfectly normal for California! > The part I'm trying to figure out is how in the dickens does he keep track of 4 million of those things! Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 18:42:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > The //e is a ][+ with most of the logic in a pair of custom chips (for > memory control and I/O). It has 64K RAM on the motherboard (the ][+ has > 48K, with an optional 16K language card), and can take another 64K RAM, > bankswitched. IIRC, the //e also has an 80 column display using a very > simple expansion card, and an extra multi-colour video mode. I don't know what you mean by the "extra multi-colour video mode", but the later //e's (the revision B and Enhanced versions, not the original revision A) had the capability for double hi-res. This meant that it could do 560 x 192 graphics in 16 colours as opposed to the standard 280 x 192 in 8 colours. > I have a //e somewhere. I never did much with it as I didn't have a Tech > manual (the ][+ came with such a manual). Then, amazingly, I found the > official Apple //e technical manual in a bookshop in London. Of course I > bought it. Maybe I'll dig the //e out again and play with it. Guaranteed to brings days, weeks and years of fun and challenge. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Aug 10 19:12:01 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <199808110012.RAA26977@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Sorry, I was totally confused when I posted that. One is an Apple ][ >Europlus (Eurostar is the train which goes under the sea to France :) and >the other is a //e. They appear to have _totally_ different motherboards >so I don't know if they are variants of the same beast or not. I know >nothing about Apples prior to the Mac but am keen to learn - the >attraction of this hobby to me is to play with things which I know nothing >about. The Eurplus is basically an Apple II+. Thus, the "plus" in its name. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Aug 10 19:12:16 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ATTN: Douglas Salot Message-ID: <199808110012.RAA27167@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> My apologies for posting this to the list. Douglas Salot, please send me an email. I don't have your email address. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 10 19:53:09 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed In-Reply-To: <35CF7203.B94E60FF@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 10, 98 05:19:48 pm Message-ID: <199808110053.UAA11075@shell.monmouth.com> > > There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin > nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) > and if you can help this person please send email to > ruthrob@cyberhighway.net Geez. That's interesting. Compugraphic was purchased by Agfa which is still in business in Massachusetts. Bill From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Aug 10 20:00:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35d19788.1125963399@smtp.wa.jps.net> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? Please contact him directly if so. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: >>From: Alun >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>Subject: Dos v2.11 >>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 >>Organization: None >>Message-ID: >>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 >>Lines: 8 >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB >> >>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to >>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a >>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this >>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand >>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old >>software to run on a spare machine. >>-- >>Alun -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 19:44:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 10, 98 04:42:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980811/3d14f09b/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 20:25:45 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: > Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? >Please contact him directly if so. > > Thanks! > >-=-=- -=-=- > >On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: > >>>From: Alun >>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>>Subject: Dos v2.11 >>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 >>>Organization: None >>>Message-ID: >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk >>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net >>>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 >>>Lines: 8 >>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB >>> >>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to >>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a >>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this >>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand >>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old >>>software to run on a spare machine. >>>-- >>>Alun > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net >Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. >I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 10 20:33:56 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. setver - pretty easy really 8-) But that may not be enough. Between 3.3 and 6.0 had less differences than 2.11 and 6.0. As stated tho - I am forwarding this on the person who needs it. BC From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 10 21:05:07 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: Message-ID: <35CFA6D3.B06A4993@texoma.net> I've run across a couple of industrial controller interface programs that won't run except on version 2.x...setver won't cut it with them. One was the programming and diag software for the Lynx Loop Access Controller for the AEG/Gould/Modicon 884 controller. Obsolete controller, obsolete module, but still in service in many applications. The only solution was get a 8088 box (won't run on '286 and better) and a copy of good old DOS 2.1. that's why I keep a couple of old Compaq portables around. Never know when you're going to need one at 3am. James BTW I still have 2.11 disks for Tandy 1000's and copies of PC DOS 2.0, 2.1 and 3.1, NIB, never had the wrapper broken. If that guy who needed a copy of DOS 2.x will privately email me I'll look to see if I have a spare copy with docs....go to stay legal ya' know Brett wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > setver - pretty easy really 8-) > > But that may not be enough. Between 3.3 and 6.0 had less differences > than 2.11 and 6.0. As stated tho - I am forwarding this on the person > who needs it. > > BC From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Aug 10 21:16:27 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supplies References: <199808100702.AAA01623@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CFA97B.424E4D21@goldrush.com> No, that's NOT what I said, to make it easier to understand: 1. remove the round PC mount power socket from a dead 64 curcuitboard 2. remove the Plus/4's square power socket from the Plus/4 curcuitboard 3. solder in the 64 socket where the Plus/4 socket was (the pin locations are the same) Then plug in any 64 power supply to the Plus/4 and fire it up. Works like a champ! > From: Russ Blakeman > Subject: Re: Plus/4 Power Supply > > I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks like a > 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure the voltages > are the same though they are in different places. > > Maybe he can use the C64 power supply and splice his old connector to the end of > it? He'd have to have the pinouts of both to do this though. > Really more work than is really worth it. The plus/4 supply is a black Commodore 64 brick supply (the one with the bah-relief C= symbol) with a square power connector, no major cosmetic difference. since he wants the 'real thing' check out: http://www.vintagecomputer.com/ where you will find these prices: 4. PLUS/4 WITH POWER SUPPLY.....18.95 5. PLUS/4 COMPUTER (KEYBOARD).....10.95 *** 6. PLUS/4 POWER SUPPLY.....10.95 *** 7. C16 WITH POWER SUPPLY.....24.95 8. C16 COMPUTER (KEYBOARD).....14.95 9. C16 POWER SUPPLY.....14.95 > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > > > Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 10 21:27:34 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 1 info References: <3.0.2.32.19980807110123.00687bc0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <35CFAC16.DEF5621F@cnct.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > > While browsing I discovered that Chapter 9 of TAB book # 1183, > "Troubleshooting Microprocessors & Digital Logic" by Robert L. Goodman, > consists of about twenty five pages of schematics and troubleshooting hints > for the TRS80 Model 1. > I hope this is of interest. Trust a TAB book like you would an evil twin of competent editing, even if it has a Radio Shack part number. And as bad as the editing generally was, the typesetting was worse. (Well, I'm out of semi-colons, well, just plain colons will work just as well in these Pascal program listings.) TAB books seems to be a conspiracy to reverse technical progress. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 21:26:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. Are you thinking of SETVER perhaps? If so, I didn't know you could use that to fake programs into thinking you are running a particular version of DOS. Well, I just checked the help files in DOS 6.22 and sho'nuff, you can use SETVER to trick a program into thinking its running under DOS x.yz. First you must load SETVER in your CONFIG.SYS file, then you use the SETVER command from the command line to specify the DOS version to report to the specific program you are running. Neat. But I don't know if this would solve the original guy's problem. Perhaps the pill dispensing program does direct calls into DOS 2.11 and bypasses the BIOS? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From boss at ibmhelp.com Mon Aug 10 21:35:38 1998 From: boss at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > Are you thinking of SETVER perhaps? If so, I didn't know you could use > that to fake programs into thinking you are running a particular version > of DOS. > > Well, I just checked the help files in DOS 6.22 and sho'nuff, you can use > SETVER to trick a program into thinking its running under DOS x.yz. First > you must load SETVER in your CONFIG.SYS file, then you use the SETVER > command from the command line to specify the DOS version to report to the > specific program you are running. Neat. > > But I don't know if this would solve the original guy's problem. Perhaps > the pill dispensing program does direct calls into DOS 2.11 and bypasses > the BIOS? > SETVER can make DOS look like a different version at least to a slight degree. If I remember correctly, it tries to give the program some internals compatible with the specified version and forces the int calls to report that version as well. The only problem is, most of the time the reason a program only works with _one_ and only one version of DOS is that it was designed incorrectly--usually to take adavantage of something that was broken in that version. Programmers, ya can't live with 'em, ya can't shoot 'em. > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/03/98] > - -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: latin1 iQCVAwUBNc+t/j9a7OLIYJvdAQGZMwP+PF82P6eKcOkH3o2CV4iE9UULdsYg54fu Eukkb99ylQVmJwI/SYLIy6qfDr2UJo3yOboWZe5DgTqyRLioNydf598YeyOZ7cny bJ3/ZT07jqeRHVfTDtob99Npp3/HTZcuNqnNTnOW/Hj/FimrcuTVq9UfWtZ5/twB L4d4Ty5A1rU= =SVNX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Aug 10 21:45:25 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment (nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. Here's the URL: http://www.drms.com/ If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you get and/or what it's like, ok? -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 10 22:01:56 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page In-Reply-To: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980810220156.30a73ab6@intellistar.net> At 07:45 PM 8/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment >(nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in >there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. > >Here's the URL: > > http://www.drms.com/ > >If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you >get and/or what it's like, ok? I've bought stuff from these auctions before. What do you want to know? Joe From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 22:29:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter In-Reply-To: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Message-ID: In the last episode of the continuing saga of my little almost-complete ET-3400, you might remember that I found the LEDs for it, but not the ROM chip. Of course, it turns out the ROM chip is pure unobtanium: a special mask-programmed MCM6830A. Luckily, I found that Heathkit was still in business, and still supported the ET-3400, so I ordered a ROM chip from them. They send me a 2716. Hmm, it's not pin-compatible, so no big surprise that it doesn't work. So, I called them up. "Oh, you need an adapter board for that old ET-3400, but we stopped making those things 15 years ago." It turns out that one of the techs there has the last adaptor board sitting in his desk drawer. Now the adapter board is mine! But it needs a buffer chip. The tech says "I think it needs a 74LS174". But that's not a buffer chip, and it's got the wrong number of pins (16 instead of the 14 the socket has). I'm guessing it really needs something like a '242 or '243. Is there any way to know for sure without guessing? Am I going to blow anything up by trying the two chips above? Any other guesses? -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 00:06:24 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U Message-ID: I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading MS-DOS floppies. I bought one a couple months ago, for a project with my Amiga, since they were what the developers of the Catweasel board recommended. Spent about two days trying to get it to work. Finally I pulled the drive out of my 486 (an older Teac drive) and it worked immediatly. Assuming the Amiga part of the equation was the problem I put the new drive in the 486. Well, yesterday I needed to make archival images of some RX50's. No dice, it absolutly would not read them. I'd picked up some older Teac's at the last swap meet, so I got them out, and after two that only semi worked I found one that works just fine, and was able to make my images, copy them back to new floppies, and boot my PDP-11/73 off of them. Note, I tried using the Teac FD-55BV-16-U drive with both 'putr' and 'teledisk'. Neather would work with it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 00:24:03 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Update Message-ID: Well, thanks to the answers I got on my questions I've got a bit better of an idea on how to proceed with getting the newly built from parts /23 up and running, and I understand why I was having difficulties (as I thought, the path through the backplane). Since I'm using a RQDX3 for the drive controller, it sounds like my best bet is to forget the RX50, and go straight to RX33 drives. However, based on my taking an additional look at the RX50 drives I'll probably try to get them up and running. What can I say, they're just too cool looking :^) The QD614 board for emulating RL01/02's sounds pretty cool, to bad I don't have the software for formating the attached drives. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Aug 11 01:15:53 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter Message-ID: <199808110615.XAA05011@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 10:29 PM 8/10/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >In the last episode of the continuing saga of my little almost-complete >ET-3400, you might remember that I found the LEDs for it, but not the ROM >chip. Of course, it turns out the ROM chip is pure unobtanium: a special >mask-programmed MCM6830A. Luckily, I found that Heathkit was still in >business, and still supported the ET-3400, so I ordered a ROM chip from >them. > >They send me a 2716. Hmm, it's not pin-compatible, so no big surprise >that it doesn't work. So, I called them up. "Oh, you need an adapter >board for that old ET-3400, but we stopped making those things 15 years >ago." It turns out that one of the techs there has the last adaptor board >sitting in his desk drawer. Now the adapter board is mine! > Well, good work finding it! >But it needs a buffer chip. The tech says "I think it needs a 74LS174". >But that's not a buffer chip, and it's got the wrong number of pins (16 >instead of the 14 the socket has). > >I'm guessing it really needs something like a '242 or '243. Is there any >way to know for sure without guessing? Am I going to blow anything up by >trying the two chips above? Any other guesses? > Can you trace the circuit of the buffer chip to see at least what pins are outputs to the 2716 (addresses) and what is from the 2716 to the adapter (data lines)? Another choice is a '125. A '242, '243 only have the data inverted from each other, so if one's the correct chip, the other won't cause logic conflicts, just wrong polarity signals. -Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:42:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed References: <199808110053.UAA11075@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <35CFE7E7.C6F83B80@bbtel.com> Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin > > nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) > > and if you can help this person please send email to > > ruthrob@cyberhighway.net > > Geez. That's interesting. Compugraphic was purchased by Agfa which > is still in business in Massachusetts. Well see I told you that there was some bright individual out there in this list that would know something. I'l pass this along to him and he can track them down from there. Thanks. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Aug 11 01:45:37 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 10, 98 09:06:24 pm Message-ID: <199808110645.XAA13015@saul4.u.washington.edu> > I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy > drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading > MS-DOS floppies. Do you have a theory to explain why this is true? I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works (or in this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligence" that is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things never are actually intelligent. -- Derek From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:55:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35CFEAC6.AD56BADB@bbtel.com> Larry Anderson wrote: > Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment > (nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in > there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. > > Here's the URL: > > http://www.drms.com/ > > If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you > get and/or what it's like, ok? Been to military auctions a lot when I was active duty, especially when they had tons of stuff during the shutdown of Chanute AFB in Rantoul, IL near Champaign-Urbana. Many times you have to buy a lot rather than individual items and many times the bids are based on scrap value rather than actual resale value. It used to be called DRMO, I guess they turned it into a commercial entity and had to make it read as a service, hence the .COM address rather than the .MIL or .ORG address. The last auction I went to at Ft. Knox here I bought a pallet full of Alps 9 pin printers that had seen many hours but still worthwhile...I paid $50 for the entire pallet and only one printer of 40 was non-working. I used it for spare parts on the ones I cleaned/tested/repaired for resale. I donated 10 of them to a church group here and the rest sold nearly overnight for $25 each. 99% are still in heavy service in the offices, schools and homes around area. Only one has had to be repaired since it was sold, for a gunked up printehead (I think I missed that one). Many auctions have a preview period so you can somewhat see what there is and the condition. Other times they have the contents listed in the auction catalog and you bid strictly on that. You also have a reasonable period of time to make payment and oickup on many of these auctions. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:57:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U References: Message-ID: <35CFEB67.C13ACFB8@bbtel.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy > drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading > MS-DOS floppies. They seem to work alright in CP/M systems as well. I put one in a Kaypro a while back and to my understanding it's still chugging away in the machine. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 02:18:59 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> <35CFEAC6.AD56BADB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35CFF063.7CC3@geocities.com> the DRMO is still alive and well; I picked up some old Suns and some 3B2's from the one in Great Lakes, Il. DRMO offices are where govt stuff goes after no other govt agency wants it; as far as I recall, most DRMO offices are open to the public at certain times etc. they have big lots, but also lots of separate junk. great places. -Eric Russ Blakeman wrote: > and many times the bids are based on scrap value rather than actual resale value. > It used to be called DRMO, I guess they turned it into a commercial entity and had From afritz at delphid.ml.org Tue Aug 11 06:08:34 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DECserver Message-ID: Well, I got bored tonight and pulled out a DECserver 200/MC that somehow ended up with many months ago. First thing was take a scredriver to it (it was quite noisy and I figured I should probably figure out what the obstruction was). Well, the obstruction was, well, dust. Although I'm not writing this message to talk solely about dust, this was some interesting stuff. From the looks of it either this thing had been in/near a fire or it's administrator smoked at an unhealthy rate. Very black and very plentiful. Also very difficult to remove (extremely fine). Removing most of it made it quieter. Anyway, what can I do with this thing? I don't have the boot images for VMS, nor do I currently have a running VMS machine. When I turn it on, the D1 light turns on, followed shortly by the D2 light, and the D3 flashes when it's transmiting. And there's MOP packets on the ether, so I must assume it's in working order. Eventually, the D3 light starts flashing constantly and D4 starts flashing every half-minute or so. I don't suppose there's any way to do IP, is there? One thing I was suprised to see in there was the face of a big original package 68k. It might be interesting to write a custom boot image. :) In any case, does anyone have a copy of the boot image for when I get a VMS machine back to being functional again? af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 05:50:52 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <35d19788.1125963399@smtp.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can't find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be thrilled to think my madness might help out some furry critters. Does anyone have a suggestion how to send a copy of it that will be bootable? I've been using Teledisk and Diskdupe but it usually means I have to spend time explaining to people why they need these programmes and how to use them. Is there an easier way, i.e. some self extracting program? colan From CharlesII at nwonline.net Tue Aug 11 07:51:48 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111252.FAA20689@mxu2.u.washington.edu> try setver [dos version] CL>Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make CL>them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank CL>here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running CL>under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The CL>command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. CL>At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: CL>> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? CL>>Please contact him directly if so. CL>> CL>> Thanks! CL>> CL>>-=-=- -=-=- CL>> CL>>On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: CL>> CL>>>>From: Alun CL>>>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc CL>>>>Subject: Dos v2.11 CL>>>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 CL>>>>Organization: None CL>>>>Message-ID: CL>>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk CL>>>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 CL>>>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT CL>alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 CL>>>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net CL>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 CL>>>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 CL>>>>Lines: 8 CL>>>>Path: CL>blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c CL>om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem CL>on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB CL>>>> CL>>>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to CL>>>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a CL>>>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this CL>>>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand CL>>>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old CL>>>>software to run on a spare machine. CL>>>>-- CL>>>>Alun CL>> CL>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- CL>>Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) CL>>http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net CL>>Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, CL>period. CL>>I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per CL>Chapter 19 RCW. CL>> CL>- CL>- john higginbotham ____________________________ CL>- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - CL>- limbo limbo.netpath.net - From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 07:59:10 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U Message-ID: <199808111259.AA28889@world.std.com> < I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works < this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligenc < is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things ne < actually intelligent. No. it's a matter of media format. the FD55-B was designed for 40 track two sided and works well for that. RX50 however is 80tracks 1 sided. While the 1/2 side this is a us it or not thing the 40/80 track thing is actually a mechanical design of the drive. The FD55-b works for a lot of formats but DEC was always non-standard with the rx50. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 08:08:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: DECserver Message-ID: <199808111308.AA06390@world.std.com> < Anyway, what can I do with this thing? I don't have the boot images fo < VMS, nor do I currently have a running VMS machine. As form of informationand explanation. It's a terminal server for VAX systems. The protocal it uses is LAT/RLAT. LAT is a local area protocal for terminal and printing services. It's a low level protocal and not generally routable. < When I turn it on, the D1 light turns on, followed shortly by the D2 < light, and the D3 flashes when it's transmiting. And there's MOP packet < on the ether, so I must assume it's in working order. Eventually, the D < light starts flashing constantly and D4 starts flashing every half-minut < or so. good sign. < I don't suppose there's any way to do IP, is there? One thing I was Nope. < suprised to see in there was the face of a big original package 68k. I < might be interesting to write a custom boot image. :) It was enough CPU for the task at that time (late 80s). < In any case, does anyone have a copy of the boot image for when I get a < VMS machine back to being functional again? I'd have to look myself, I have one but never needed an extra 8 serial lines. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 08:09:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! Allison From jrice at texoma.net Tue Aug 11 09:03:59 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D04F4F.D85B6AFD@texoma.net> Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). James Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! > > Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 09:04:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D04F86.7052FE7@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! I do remember one, and only one, program that came outunder ms-dos 2.1x and would not run under 3.x....Battlezone. I have no idea why it wouldn't run under anything other than 2.1x other than maybe the compiler used routines and addresses from that dos. Other than that, you are absolutley right as I still run a few games and such from back in the 2.11 days, even in MSDOS mode on a Win95 machine. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From spc at armigeron.com Tue Aug 11 08:17:29 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <35D04F86.7052FE7@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 11, 98 09:04:55 am Message-ID: <199808111317.JAA14655@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Russ Blakeman once stated: > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! > > I do remember one, and only one, program that came outunder ms-dos 2.1x and > would not run under 3.x....Battlezone. I have no idea why it wouldn't run > under anything other than 2.1x other than maybe the compiler used routines > and addresses from that dos. Other than that, you are absolutley right as I > still run a few games and such from back in the 2.11 days, even in MSDOS mode > on a Win95 machine. Some programs (and Microsoft programs were notorious for this) would check the version and refuse to run unless it was *equal* to the version it was expecting. The correct way would have been equal or greater than. -spc (Bloody programmers) From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 07:03:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <35CF73E0.5B97344F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199808111605.MAA06606@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 Aug 98 at 17:27, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > > an > > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > > will handle the job? > > > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > > computers, but don't know about XTs. > > We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so > commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman Has he actually powered up this beast yet ? I had an XT from Phillips that had 768k onboard that I passed on to a friend and I don't remember it having any sort of memory manager. IIRC the first time I used it with DOS 3.2 floppies, I was amazed as the mem counter went up to 640 and just kept going. I imagined it was some trick they did in bios. If his doesn't use the full ram, I'll double check with my friend in case I missed something. I've also got several 286 mem managers someplace here but I doubt if they will work with an XT. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 11:15:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 11:15:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: MIT flea address/info (eastern MA USA). Message-ID: <199808111615.AA24122@world.std.com> http://web.mit.edu/w1mx/www/swapfest.html The MIT Radio Society, in conjunction with the MIT UHF Repeater Association, the MIT Electronics Research Society, and the Harvard Wireless Club, sponsors a Swapfest on the third Sunday of each month, April through October. This is a place to buy, sell, and swap amateur radio, electronic, and computer equipment. Hams and non-hams alike are welcome. The Swapfest is held at MIT's Albany Street Garage at the corner of Albany and Main Streets in Cambridge. The gate opens for buyers at 9am. There is a small admission fee. For more information, or if you'd like to purchase a seller's pass, call (617) 253-3776 during business hours. From spc at armigeron.com Tue Aug 11 09:18:37 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <199808111605.MAA06606@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 11, 98 12:03:22 pm Message-ID: <199808111418.KAA14779@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated: > > Has he actually powered up this beast yet ? I had an XT from > Phillips that had 768k onboard that I passed on to a friend and I > don't remember it having any sort of memory manager. IIRC the first > time I used it with DOS 3.2 floppies, I was amazed as the mem counter > went up to 640 and just kept going. I imagined it was some trick they > did in bios. > If his doesn't use the full ram, I'll double check with my friend in case I > missed something. I've also got several 286 mem managers someplace here > but I doubt if they will work with an XT. The infamous 640K limit isn't a fault of Microsoft (well, partly, but not entirely) but of IBM. The memory map of an IBM PC (or PClone) has RAM stopping at $9FFFF, or 640K. Memory starting at $A0000 is reserved and if I recall, it's mapped out as: $00000 RAM $A0000 Reserved or EGA/VGA graphics memory $B0000 MDA or CGA graphics memory $C0000 Reserved or Expansion ROM $D0000 Reserved or Expansion ROM $E0000 Reserved, Expansion ROM or Extended BIOS $F0000 BIOS More or less. But you have to remember, that's for a 100% compatible IBM PC clone. Remove that restriction and you can have more memory. MS-DOS can work fine with more memory, but its problem is that the memory has to be contiguous (Thanks Microsoft. And while you're at it, could you make it non-reentrant? Perfect ... ). -spc (Remembers more of this than he wants to ... ) From bruce.a.lane at boeing.com Tue Aug 11 11:26:41 1998 From: bruce.a.lane at boeing.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Heads up: (almost) FREE Solaris! Message-ID: <35D070C1.C5D9C7FA@jps.net> Looks like Sun Microsystems is jumping on the freebie bandwagon now. I think this story will be of particular interest to those of us who own older SPARCStations. Enjoy! http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/116306.html?st.ne.fd.mnaw From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 11:43:19 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 07:41:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111252.FAA20689@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199808111643.MAA13638@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 Aug 98 at 8:51, CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: > try setver [dos version] > > > CL>Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > CL>them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > CL>here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > CL>under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > CL>command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > CL>At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: > CL>> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? > CL>>Please contact him directly if so. > CL>> > CL>> Thanks! > CL>> > CL>>-=-=- -=-=- > CL>> > CL>>On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: > CL>> > CL>>>>From: Alun > CL>>>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc > CL>>>>Subject: Dos v2.11 > CL>>>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 > CL>>>>Organization: None > CL>>>>Message-ID: > CL>>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk > CL>>>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 > CL>>>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT > CL>alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 > CL>>>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net > CL>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 > CL>>>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 > CL>>>>Lines: 8 > CL>>>>Path: > CL>blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c > CL>om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem > CL>on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB > CL>>>> > CL>>>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to > CL>>>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a > CL>>>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this > CL>>>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand > CL>>>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old > CL>>>>software to run on a spare machine. > CL>>>>-- > CL>>>>Alun > CL>> > CL>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > CL>>Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) > CL>>http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net > CL>>Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, > CL>period. > CL>>I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per > CL>Chapter 19 RCW. > CL>> > CL>- > CL>- john higginbotham ____________________________ > CL>- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > CL>- limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on in this thread. Now don't you think that's a little much ! Larry (in indignant mode) lwalker@interlog.com From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 15:37:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U In-Reply-To: <199808111259.AA28889@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works >< this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligenc >< is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things ne >< actually intelligent. > >No. it's a matter of media format. the FD55-B was designed for 40 track >two sided and works well for that. RX50 however is 80tracks 1 sided. >While the 1/2 side this is a us it or not thing the 40/80 track thing is >actually a mechanical design of the drive. This probably explains why the same drive couldn't read C-1541 disks when attached to a special controller in my one Amiga. A different model Teac works just fine with the controller and can read the 1541's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jrice at texoma.net Tue Aug 11 14:43:04 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D09EC8.B17EF6E8@texoma.net> Allison, I know what the syntax for setver is...it just wouldn't work in this instance and we didn't have the time to disassemble a 15 year old application to determine why. It was just easier to get an old DOS version and boot off a floppy. The app also wouldn't run from any disk but the original factory 360k floppy disk. Even a CopyIIPC copy board I used to have wouldn't copy it. James Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, > < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message > < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". > < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors > < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under > < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). > > Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. > > Allison From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Aug 11 15:45:40 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Email problems Message-ID: <199808112045.NAA15824@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I had some trouble with my email today and 20 messages were deleted. If anybody on the list sent me any email and didn't receive a reply please resend. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 11 12:37:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 10, 98 10:29:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980811/4649a896/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 16:25:34 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor Message-ID: <35D0B6CE.6D45@geocities.com> I found out that the prez of my ex-company uses a concrete filled "dec pdp 8" (his words) as a permanent sailboat anchor at his summer house. what a great way to recycle computer parts.... sheesh. -Eric From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 11 16:29:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor In-Reply-To: <35D0B6CE.6D45@geocities.com> Message-ID: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [A PDP-8 for some undeserving ba$**rd to use as a BOAT ANCHOR?) Hmm. I'll fix him! Where's he at, and has anoyone got a drill and some diving gear? ------- From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 16:42:29 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor References: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35D0BAC5.6895@geocities.com> Well, I asked one of my friends who still worked there if he could check on any PDP type equipment; I thought it was worth a shot. apparently the big man heard about it and told him some story about how he had hated one so much as a student, he got one as scrap and filled it with concrete and sunk it out on the lake w/ a huge eye-bolt to connect the sailboat to. A moron's revenge, I guess. Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [A PDP-8 for some undeserving ba$**rd to use as a BOAT ANCHOR?) > > Hmm. I'll fix him! Where's he at, and has anoyone got a drill and some > diving gear? > ------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:00:26 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 Message-ID: I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. Anyone with experience with this with advice? TIA colan From scott at saskatoon.com Tue Aug 11 20:00:42 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What are you doing with the head cleaner? Just spraying it in between the keys? What I have done with many commodore keyboards is to open them up (don't lose the tiny screws) and clean the black rubber on each key with a q-tip and isopropyl alcohol. I also clean the contacts on the circuit board. Then put it back together, and it should work. I did this many times with my original VIC-20 and with various PETs. On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: >I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop >computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not >responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at >some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried >some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. >Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > >TIA >colan > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 20:03:49 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D0E9F3.CBA976B4@bbtel.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on > > in this thread. > > Now don't you think that's a little much ! > > > > Larry (in indignant mode) > > lwalker@interlog.com > > Well, I guess it's better than whoever used 0 text lines for a 0 line > response. At least with the 70 lines, you know what they're talking about. > With 0 text lines, and no response, your guess is as good as mine for what > they meant :-) > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 Easy big fella, don't need another flamefest like we had with the guy from UK back a few months ago....compute away and let it slide. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 20:04:24 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? colan On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Scott Walde wrote: > What are you doing with the head cleaner? Just spraying it in between the > keys? > > What I have done with many commodore keyboards is to open them up (don't > lose the tiny screws) and clean the black rubber on each key with a q-tip > and isopropyl alcohol. I also clean the contacts on the circuit board. > Then put it back together, and it should work. I did this many times with > my original VIC-20 and with various PETs. > > On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > >I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop > >computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not > >responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at > >some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried > >some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. > >Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > > > > >TIA > >colan > > > > > > > From scott at saskatoon.com Tue Aug 11 20:11:14 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: >Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would >work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the >bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? Typically a tape drive, maybe a disk drive, maybe a printer. The disk drives and printers connected to the IEEE-488 bus. (One of the two bigger edge connectors on the back.) The tape drive (the drives used on the VIC-20 will work) connects to the narrow edge connector. > colan ttyl srw From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:46 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Denver finds Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811111751.5d3f0f70@ricochet.net> Well, all I can say is if you're going to Denver from San Francisco, (or vice-versa,) fly. We spent 24 hours getting there, with only food/bathroom stops, and a 1/2hr nap somewhere in Nevada. 8^) Anyway, We went to the Mile High Flea Market which turned up a Magnavox Odyssey 2 (+ 7 games) and 2 APF TV Fun machines. (And some Fisher-Price cars/people.) Then we hit a number of thrift shops where we found 2 different versions of a VTL/VTech learning computer, ca. 1980+ (I already had one, the oldest of the three.) We also came up with another Odyssey 2, an Alphie II (learning toy in the shape of a robot), and an Atari Pong game in the box. We passed up an NEC APC (vt-100 like machine, with 2 8" floppies,) a Commodore PC-20 III, Franklin Ace 1000, and a few others at the ARC about 10000 E. Colfax, and an Amstrad PCW 8256 at the ARC on Florida and S. Broadway. The keyboard and main unit were there, but separated, I reunited them and told the guy to keep them together. The last one we stopped at, on the way out of town was on W. 74th(?) near Wadsworth. There we left behind an apollo monitor (labelled "Domain") and a PCjr Monitor. What we did get was an IBM 5155(? The suitcase one) and a TI ProLite laptop, with powersupply and "drive box" (additional disk drive that attaches to the back.) The former was marked at $12.99 and the latter was $24.99. I took them up to pay and asked the gal if she could reduce the price on the TI (it never hurts to ask!). She called the guy from the furniture department (computers are furniture, btw) and asked him. He looked at what I had, crossed out the price on the TI and wrote "2pc" on both computers. I got 'em both for $12.99. We also got, over the course of the week, about a dozen pairs of tap shoes, but not much Donald Duck stuff. Anyway, if you're in the area, you should keep any eye on the ARC stores. They seem to get a lot of stuff, and regularly have 1/2 price or even $.99 sales. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:47 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811112737.5d3fcc6e@ricochet.net> At 07:49 PM 7/31/98 +1700, you wrote: >A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that >BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the >San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. Well, it is computer controlled, and being 25 years old or so... That would be around the right era, I think? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:49 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811162527.5db7dace@ricochet.net> At 10:45 AM 8/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >(I was once appalled by the brisk cash gathered by a "reviewer" >of books for a newsletter for librarians, who'd turn a bagful >of new books into cash each week at the nearest used book store, >after dismissing each with barely a paragraph "review".) Heck, I've got a brother (not my fault) who gets stuff for free just by passing out a business card for a fake magazine along with a heaping helping of BS. Unfortunately, I once made the mistake of saying he could use my fax to receive something, now I get all kinds of junk fax addressed to him or various pseudonyms he's made up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811175711.5db7d6fe@ricochet.net> At 08:27 PM 8/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >That's Magnavox Odyssey. Is it just the Odyssey, or Odyssey2? If you got >a plain Odyssey (circa 1972) then you've got yourself quite a find. Yep, Magnavox. Left the brain home this trip. 8^) (Or fried it driving 24 hours straight.) And it was an Odyssey 2. Actually ended up with 2 of them, one with permanently connected joysticks and one with a Dx-9 connected joysticks. And no, I don't collect video games. (In spite of having the Atari Pong, Atari Pinball (on loan), 2 Odysseys, 2 TV Fun's, Atari 2600, Atari Lynx, Atari Jaguar...) >> "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. > >Atari Pong is cool. I thought so. 8^) The first part of that should have been 'two [APF] "TV Fun" game consoles', btw. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:53 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Amiga Support Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811183338.54b7d1d8@ricochet.net> For all you Amiga fanatics, I ran across an Amiga store in Dnever (well, Aurora, actually). It's called The Computer Room, and they can be found at or at 2760 S. Havana St., Aurora, CO, 1-303-696-8973. They also had a machine in there in a very purple case. (Not disgusting Barney purple, but really cool fast purple.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:54 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811184621.4ccf903e@ricochet.net> >PG Manney wrote: > >> Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. >> >> manney@lrbcg.com Hmmm... If you're near Denver, there was a Plus/4 in the box at (iirc) the ARC thrift shop on Florida and S. Broadway. Or perhaps someone who is still in that area could pick it up for you? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Aug 11 22:37:51 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System Message-ID: S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of them left in the Southern California area. So just a reminder to my esteemed ListDwellers.. I have a big 11/04 system that is free to a good home, details can be read in the archives under a siliar heading, or e-mail me for details. If there is no interest, I must part out the system to make room for Other DEC Stuff. And also, Thanks to all who have written with advice to my last round of novice system config questions. Cheers John From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 21:12:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Heads up: (almost) FREE Solaris! In-Reply-To: <35D070C1.C5D9C7FA@jps.net> Message-ID: >Looks like Sun Microsystems is jumping on the freebie bandwagon now. I >think this story will be of particular interest to those of us who own >older SPARCStations. > > Enjoy! > >http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/116306.html?st.ne.fd.mnaw A better link is http://www.sun.com/edu/solaris (yes, I've got it memorized, and I don't even like Solaris). It's version 2.6, and it covers both x86 and that Sparc thingy. You've got to sign up with some sort of developer program, and then they'll ship you for the cost of shipping and handling the media. It's for educational and personal use only. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, and I'll probably get myself a copy in case I ever get a Ultra cheap Sparc. One of the reasons I've avioded them when I've had the chance was the trouble of getting an OS (yes, I know there are free alternatives). Almost everyone I've mentioned it to at work wants a copy. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:42:30 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199808120445.AAA25195@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 Aug 98 at 21:04, cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would > work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the > bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? > > colan > The older models had a built-in cassette, the newer models took a cassette tape to record your programs. Keying in programs from mags. was part of the fun. It had MSBasic and IIRC an IEEE4388 interface. I would think that most of the VIC-20 programs would work on it, taking into account memory limitations. I think PetBasic and Commodore Basic were virtually the same. There were several FDDs available for it later. the 4040, 8050,8250 ( these last 2 were dual disk-drives) and the 2031LPFD (low profile drive) which I have ,pending the arrival of a PET to replace the one I gave away many moons ago. Contact me by e-mail re a PET BASIC book which, since we're virtual neighbours, I'll lend you, and I have an extra VIC-20 Programmers Manual which I'm sure we can arrange a trade for. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:42:31 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808120445.AAA25214@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Aug 97 at 14:59, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on > > in this thread. > > Now don't you think that's a little much ! > > > > Larry (in indignant mode) > > lwalker@interlog.com > > Well, I guess it's better than whoever used 0 text lines for a 0 line > response. At least with the 70 lines, you know what they're talking about. > With 0 text lines, and no response, your guess is as good as mine for what > they meant :-) > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > Not really, the responses without a msg are just honest mistakes or problems with equipment. Take a detour and read the usenet netiquette FAQ. You might learn something. Nuff said . ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From pcoad at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:07:10 1998 From: pcoad at ncal.verio.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980811184621.4ccf903e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > Hmmm... If you're near Denver, there was a Plus/4 in the box at (iirc) the > ARC thrift shop on Florida and S. Broadway. Or perhaps someone who is > still in that area could pick it up for you? > Survey time: How many people have Plus/4s which are not in the box? I've got two in the box (no not in the same box). Were these machines so bad that they were shelved even before the box made it to the trash? --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 02:33:21 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <004701bdc27f$563fd160$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Bill Girnius wrote: > My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk > called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me > personally. I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing me. ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:42:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk > > called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me > > personally. > > I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If > so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing > me. ;) SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. So they are similar, but I don't know what kind of compatibility they have between them. You should be able to get to a command line to SOS. You might just need a normal SOS system disk, unless that's what you have already. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 02:46:48 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people are > mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives without > either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came with > the drive. That's what I thought. I don't have Prodos or catalyst, but the SOS utilities disk with the drivers and setup programs seems to indicate that I should be able to access the drive without anything fancy. > From what I remember you're correct in waiting for the ready light to go > out - the Profile does a block-by-block check of the drive each time you > switch it on, so the fact that the ready light's blinking and then > stopping is a good sign. The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a source for confusion. It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is ready. >> Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. >> I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it >> seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. > > aha, has anyone ever tried this? I've got two profile drives but have > never managed to get both to work at once, only one's ever recognised. > Will the system support two drives at once (I can't remember if my > problem was being unable to get anything working in a slot different > from 4, or whether it was just that two controller cards didn't want to > work in the same machine) I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, so I guess one is dead. As is the drive, perhaps. I attempted to format the drive tonight, and I got the error "Format error #21. Internal program error.". I'm hoping it's a software error, but if it's hardware there's likely little I can do about it. Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have different wiring? The reason I say that the drive may not be replacable is that although it's an ST-506, the board on the bottom is (c)1981 Apple Computer Inc. So Apple has gone and customized it somehow. :/ > cheers > > Jules. Thanks Jules, you're the only one not to try to involve Prodos so far. ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From afritz at delphid.ml.org Wed Aug 12 03:11:33 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... Message-ID: Quick question: what's a DEC DS200? (I'm assuming it means DECstation 200, but I'm also guessing it's x86-based and has no relation to the larger MIPS-based systems). Another question: what would be a reasonable offer for a stripped DECsystem 5500? The guy seems to want a (IMHO) ridiculous price for it (somewhere around US$900 as far as I can tell). He seems to think he can sell it to someone that will use it to it's full potential, pitting it against modern high-end machines. My offer, needless to say, was no where near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone a competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much faster than it's TC relatives.) Also, is there a FAQ or something somewhere explaining common hardware? I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it would be a FAQ by now. af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 02:54:57 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Sega AI Game Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got a chance to play with this mysterious machine tonight. First, the name is "Sega AI Computer". It was made in late 1986. The manual is in Japanese, but Geek is universal: 128KB OS, SEGA PROLOG; 256K ROM; 128KB ROM carts (JIS standard, similar to PCMCIA 1.0); 128K RAM; 64K RAM; V20 (8088) CPU; RF, composite, and RGB outputs; optional floppy drive; built-in cassette drive; full qwerty/kanji detachable keyboard; touch pad; cursor pad with left/right buttons. (I'll have web-pics of it eventually.) It has several prototype game carts with it, and I could only get a few to work (most have exposed UV-erasable EPROMs). So, what do you get when you cross a Prolog-based AI machine with a game machine? Mind-numbingly dull games! Man, Eliza is exciting compared to this software. But I still can't get over the concept. I'd be floored if marketing ever let this thing see the day of light, but the hardware is definitely production quality. From the software and the general presentation in the manual, I'd guess they were aiming for the educational market. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:57:32 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Lisa hard drive repair Message-ID: Ok, so I'd like to make use of the recent discussion we had concerning hard drive repair and attack the "widget" drive in my Lisa 2/10 to see if I can bring it back to life. Does anybody know where I can find technical info on this drive? A web resource that I don't know about perhaps? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 03:04:32 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. ^^^^ Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) > So they are similar, but I don't know what kind of compatibility they have > between them. You should be able to get to a command line to SOS. You > might just need a normal SOS system disk, unless that's what you have > already. Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ If it's possible, how would I get to a command line from /UTILITIES ? I do still have all those Apple III disk images that I got from a publically unnamable source ( ;) ), but just getting them into machine-readable format proved to be such a huge hassle that I never got around to completing the task (and even my //e's Prodos disk is now corrupted). Give me 48-hour days and I might have it done within the week. Though a serial cable for the //c would help loads. Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the files directly to disk on my Amiga. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 03:19:05 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Calculator/abacus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sure there are a couple of calculator freaks on this list. I saw an oddball Sharp Elsimate (forgot to note the model number) with built-in abacus tonight. I'm pretty sure it was a novelty calc, but it's not like Sharp to have a sense of humor. Perhaps this was intended as an Asian cultural bridge? -- Doug From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 12 03:21:20 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor In-Reply-To: <35D0BAC5.6895@geocities.com> References: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199808120821.SAA10630@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:42 PM 11-08-98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >Well, I asked one of my friends who still worked there if he could check >on any PDP type equipment; I thought it was worth a shot. apparently the >big man heard about it and told him some story about how he had hated >one so much as a student, he got one as scrap and filled it with >concrete and sunk it out on the lake w/ a huge eye-bolt to connect the >sailboat to. A moron's revenge, I guess. Well I just wonder what about an -* that could get someone so steamed up that they'd want to take revenge 20? years later. Of course, with my yachties hat on, we'd use almost anything to act as a weight. My favorite was old railway carriage wheels. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Aug 12 03:21:37 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: >> Survey time: How many people have Plus/4s which are not in the box? [raises hand in the air] actually my plus/4s completely dead - has anyone got schematics anywhere or know what commonly went wrong with these machines? (Unfortunately it was donated to me in a dead state - I've no guarantee that ROMs haven't been swapped round etc. - can anyone tell me which chips should go in which sockets just to be sure? :) (If I power on the machine all I get is a black screen, no meaningful display of any sort) >> I've got two in the box (no not in the same box). Were these >> machines so bad that they were shelved even before the box made it >> to the trash? well I must say that the manuals make them sound pretty good, but that has to be a lie - I mean, how common are these things? (they're certainly not in the UK anyway!!) cheers Jules > From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Aug 12 03:32:00 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: >>> Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people >>>are >>> mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives >>>without >>> either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came >>>with >>> the drive. >> >>That's what I thought. I don't have Prodos or catalyst, but the SOS >>utilities disk with the drivers and setup programs seems to indicate that >>I should be able to access the drive without anything fancy. hmm, I should hopefully be going up to my folk's place in two or three weeks time - if I do and this is still a problem then I'll try to get access to my /// and see what's what (I can't remember how far back in the pile it is though :) >> The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I >> hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a >> source for confusion. >> It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is >> ready. that sounds right to me, too :) But at least it's changing state - I guess I'd expect it to carry on blinking if there was a fault. (Out of interest, how long was it blinking for? Seem to remember it used to be somewhere around 30-40 seconds on my drives) > >> I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have >> to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into >> slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, >> so I guess one is dead. Interesting. My problem was probably that more than one card couldn't be configured at once then (maybe I should get hold of a copy of prodos from somewhere and that'll sort things out? I can't imagine the firm that originally used this machine swapping drives around all the time!) > >> Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin >> cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer >> than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have >> different wiring? well, I remember the cable didn't have any twists in it - ie. it was either a full crossover or straight-through. One of my cables is original, and it's no more than a foot long. Chances are these things would suffer from interference - try a shorter cable and see if it helps. > >> Thanks Jules, you're the only one not to try to involve Prodos so far. ;) ooh, give me time... :) really must get back into using the /// and finding out what there is available for it - everyone seems to hate the machine, but it seems an interesting beast to say the least!! (Last time I used it though it made me realise how used I was to MS-DOS, SOS being the nightmare that it is...) cheers Jules > From cdrmool at interlog.com Wed Aug 12 04:03:19 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader. The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its about as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want to send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also, being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in what has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother. I promise it will never happen again. Colan From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 12 05:45:07 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <004101bdc5de$45cb39c0$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Im sorry, I mean SOS. have you been able to get to the HD yet? Let me know whats up and maybe I can help. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:39 AM Subject: Re: Apple III & Profile > > >On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Bill Girnius wrote: > >> My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk >> called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me >> personally. > >I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If >so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing >me. ;) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Wed Aug 12 06:02:02 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808121102.NAA28182@IAEhv.nl> It is not a BIOS trick. The extra 128K appears in the upper memory area, from D000 to EFFF. There was a special device driver available, USE!UMBS.SYS, that turned this memory into UMB's if you were running DOS 5. Great for parking mouse and network drivers in. The driver was written by a hobbyist as a memory study project, it was available with the machine code source so you could modify it for other computers. IIRC it should be on Simtel. I also have a copy around here somewhere. I used to admin a network that had lots of Philips XTs, NMS9100 and P3105 were the ones that had this extra memory. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 12 07:18:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... Message-ID: <199808121218.AA16733@world.std.com> < Quick question: what's a DEC DS200? (I'm assuming it means DECstation < 200, but I'm also guessing it's x86-based and has no relation to the < larger MIPS-based systems). the only thin I know by that part number is a DECserver200, a 8port eithernet/LAT terminal server 68000 based. < Another question: what would be a reasonable offer for a stripped < DECsystem 5500? The guy seems to want a (IMHO) ridiculous price for it Unknown on price but those are fast systems in the MIPS lineup. It's also not that old (to be under the 10 year rule). < near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much < more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone < competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much fast < than it's TC relatives.) TC??? It was a fast machine when it was introduced. fast compared to modern with PII/233s and the like is a unfair comparison. < Also, is there a FAQ or something somewhere explaining common hardware? DECs linup was huge so that would be a large list (the option module list was several very thick volumes and listed everything DEC had a part number for) < I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it woul < be a FAQ by now. crank up your web thingie and follow the PDP-8 trail. The DECmate series is a PDP-8 in CMOS clothing. There are some BIG faq out there for that one. Look here: Frequently Asked Questions about DEC PDP-8 models and options. By Douglas Jones, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (with help from many folks) Sites known to carry reasonably current FTPable copies of this file: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt.sys.pdp8 Allison From afritz at delphid.ml.org Wed Aug 12 11:01:19 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... In-Reply-To: <199808121218.AA16733@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > < near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much > < more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone > < competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much fast > < than it's TC relatives.) > > TC??? It was a fast machine when it was introduced. fast compared to > modern with PII/233s and the like is a unfair comparison. I was just going by the TPS performance figures from DEC's big list on their web site. It listed it at a mere 21 TPS, with the TC DS5k's running around 19TPS. It also listed much newer AS200 4/233's (which can be had for less than $400s these days) at 198 TPS (ir, 9x faster). This is why the price seemed ridiculous. It appears these are not very good numbers to go by! The DS5500 appears to be rare enough that no one knows too much about it (none of the free unix-derivs support it, and there's barely any mention of it elsewhere). > < I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it woul > < be a FAQ by now. > > crank up your web thingie and follow the PDP-8 trail. The DECmate series > is a PDP-8 in CMOS clothing. There are some BIG faq out there for that > one. Thanks. af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Aug 12 11:04:22 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Teeny Tiny Jumpers Message-ID: <01bdc60a$de9f5b00$0100007f@localhost> I have a Quantum 270 MB IDE that requires really small jumpers. Standard ones (e.g., Maxtor) are too big. Anyone have any? Thanks "Corduroy pillows make headlines." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/b595cc16/attachment.html From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 12 07:20:50 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808121102.NAA28182@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <199808121623.MAA11378@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Aug 98 at 13:02, Kees Stravers wrote: > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > It is not a BIOS trick. The extra 128K appears in the upper memory area, > from D000 to EFFF. There was a special device driver available, USE!UMBS.SYS, > that turned this memory into UMB's if you were running DOS 5. Great for > parking mouse and network drivers in. The driver was written by a hobbyist > as a memory study project, it was available with the machine code source > so you could modify it for other computers. IIRC it should be on Simtel. > I also have a copy around here somewhere. I used to admin a network that > had lots of Philips XTs, NMS9100 and P3105 were the ones that had this > extra memory. > > Kees > > -- It was a neat machine for an XT. I don't recall if I ever checked to see if it was using that extra memory or if it had any SW with it. My friend will be delighted to know that he can squeeze out a little extra ram for memory-hungry DOS programs. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 12:13:07 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <199808121713.KAA06399@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Just purchased an "Outbound Laptop System". I can't find a power switch on the unit. Does it use the keyboard to power on? I don't have the power adapter. What are the specs for it? Can the Outbound run directly off the adapter or does it need to run off the battery? Thanks! Tom Owad P.S. A while back there was some discussion concerning Mac Portables. Paul Kelbaugh of Newport Computer Trading Company has all sorts of Mac Portable parts & accessories for sale. Phone: 703-861-MACS. Email: kelbaugh@aol.com -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 13:15:55 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 12, 98 04:04:32 am Message-ID: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> > > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. > ^^^^ > Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) That may be (I've never seen it). However, I've heard that the file data structures are exactly the same between SOS and ProDOS. (That is, the format of directories, volumes, etc. are compatible). ProDOS does have definitions for many more of the 256 (255?) allowable file types -- SOS defined fewer. So be a little thankful. :) > Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly > bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, > which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal > because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. Put side 1 in drive 1 and side 2 in drive 2. Then you should be able to use the menu system, editor, and the compiler. (Of course, you may be missing one or more of those sides.) I've decided that Pascal is cool but is also a pain to use. It's somewhat of an offshoot from normal Apple software; I don't know how much Apple updated it over the years; it's cranky (your disk drives must be in slot 6 -- also, if you switch disks at unexpected times the program gets discombobulated); and even compared with other versions of the UCSD software, it's a little unusual. UCSD updated their Pascal system through two more versions (III.x and IV.x) but Apple stayed at II.x. > I do still have all those Apple III disk images that I got from a > publically unnamable source ( ;) ), but just getting them into > machine-readable format proved to be such a huge hassle that I never got > around to completing the task (and even my //e's Prodos disk is now > corrupted). Give me 48-hour days and I might have it done within the > week. Though a serial cable for the //c would help loads. Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or somewhere else? > Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these > disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then > I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the > files directly to disk on my Amiga. Shrinkit is an archive program (like PKZIP, gzip, etc.) though it does have a special mode for compressing entire disks. I think it uses a file format called NuFX and there is supposedly a compatible C library for UNIX (nfxllib? nfxtools? something like that). You know, I just happen to have a disk with Shrinkit on one side and ProTERM on the other. Perhaps it would save you a lot of time if I sent it to you? (I have another copy of the same disk, so I can spare a copy. Though it's been a LONG time since I booted it up, so I don't know what shape it's in.) Both programs should be very pleasant to use on the //e or //c. I don't know if they'll run on the ///. (The special ][+ versions of Shrinkit/Unshrinkit should run on the /// but they're less capable.) Send me your mailing address. -- Derek dpeschel@u.washington.edu From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 13:19:21 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 11, 98 08:37:51 pm Message-ID: <199808121819.LAA06976@saul4.u.washington.edu> > S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP > system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of > them left in the Southern California area. I'm interested (but haven't gotten around to replying yet). Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would be a real pain. Maybe the timing of your offer is unfortunate for all the California people. -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 12 13:39:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System Message-ID: <199808121843.OAA04378@charity.harvard.net> I'm interested too but I'm even more geographically challenged (in Massachusetts). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: D. Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@u.washington.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Free 11/04 System > > > > S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP > > system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of > > them left in the Southern California area. > > I'm interested (but haven't gotten around to replying yet). > > Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would > be a real pain. > > Maybe the timing of your offer is unfortunate for all the > California people. > > -- Derek > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Aug 12 12:32:20 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System In-Reply-To: <199808121843.OAA04378@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: > I'm interested too but I'm even more geographically challenged (in > Massachusetts). > > > > Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would > > be a real pain. I'm in Iowa. Maybe the folks down at Maharishi U in Fairfield (IA) would be willing to meditate and levitate the 11/04 to my house. =-D Anthony Clifton, KC0CUE From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 13:56:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > I've decided that Pascal is cool but is also a pain to use. It's > somewhat of an offshoot from normal Apple software; I don't know how > much Apple updated it over the years; it's cranky (your disk drives must > be in slot 6 -- also, if you switch disks at unexpected times the > program gets discombobulated); and even compared with other versions of > the UCSD software, it's a little unusual. UCSD updated their Pascal > system through two more versions (III.x and IV.x) but Apple stayed at > II.x. I'll just say this: Apple UCSD Pascal blows. As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". I kid you not. It was like "Gee, I didn't find the disk I wanted, so my head exploded and I just formatted your disk with all your class projects for no logical reason. Duh." The compiler was slow but decent. The editor was crummy. The "OS" was really more of a worse-than-crud menu system. Still, SirTech software built Wizardry--one of the all time best games ever--in Apple Pascal, and it was highly successful. So it was usable. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:32:59 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13379256864.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [SOS?] Why did I parse that as Son Of Stopgap? ------- From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 14:54:19 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <13379256864.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 98 12:32:59 pm Message-ID: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> > [SOS?] > > Why did I parse that as Son Of Stopgap? Because you're wierd? :) Maybe you confused one strange program with another. If you work for XKL then you may have used SOS (the editor). I never have, but I think I saw a mode diagram in an RT-11 manual (e.g., "Push these keys when you're in mode X to get to mode Y"). My reaction was, "Oh sh*t, this is like a maze!". At least DEC repented and wrote EDT. In many ways EDT is a really good, well-designed program. I sorta like vi too, though. :) _Do_ you work for XKL? I thought you were a student (like me). -- Derek From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:57:53 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379261397.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Do I work for XKL?] I wish. No, I just have an account on Toad. I've never used SOS (Maybe it's on here! I'll go look) but I've heard the horror stories... I'd love to get paid for studying PDP-10 arcana. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:59:06 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379261618.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Maybe it's here?] Nope. No sign of it. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 12 15:26:36 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: References: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812152636.00c30100@pc> At 11:56 AM 8/12/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >I'll just say this: Apple UCSD Pascal blows. > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The >error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 16:28:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980812152636.00c30100@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way > >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than > >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire > >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The > >error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". > > UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. > It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored > contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, > you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it > would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it > wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought This was 10 years ago in high school. I doubt I can get back credit :) > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in the wrong disk and the OS puked all over it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 12 16:47:11 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <199808122149.RAA27666@charity.harvard.net> > On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > > > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does > not give you a way > > >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could > be worse than > > >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once > lost my entire > > >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the > right disk. The > > >error message was something like "Volume not found: > directory erased". > > > > UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. > > It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored > > contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, > > you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it > > would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it > > wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought > > This was 10 years ago in high school. I doubt I can get back > credit :) > > > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. > > It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in > the wrong > disk and the OS puked all over it. > I remember this happening if you were writing to a disk and accidentally put the wrong one in. Tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:33:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 11, 98 09:04:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1019 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/17ac85fc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:43:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Lisa hard drive repair In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 12, 98 00:57:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/018f09de/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:45:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Calculator/abacus In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 12, 98 03:19:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/77d227c2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:59:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: from "Julian Richardson" at Aug 12, 98 09:21:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/aa830928/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Aug 12 17:25:11 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980812135503.652f826a@ricochet.net> At 10:13 AM 8/12/98 -0700, you wrote: > Just purchased an "Outbound Laptop System". I can't find a power >switch on the unit. Does it use the keyboard to power on? > I don't have the power adapter. What are the specs for it? Can the >Outbound run directly off the adapter or does it need to run off the >battery? Check out . Is yours the Laptop (two pieces) or the Notebook (one piece)? If the latter, I can get you the specs for the PS when I get home (if you don't hear from me, e-mail me to remind me.) To start it, hit return or space on the keyboard. Specs depend on the model. If it's the notebook, there's a model # on the back by the expansion ports. Could be 68K or 68030 (iirc). It can run directly off the PS, but batteries should also be readily available (it's a standard type of camcorder battery.) If it's the Laptop, and you decide to part with it, do let me know! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 18:18:49 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <199808122318.QAA18693@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Check out . Is yours the >Laptop (two pieces) or the Notebook (one piece)? If the latter, I can get >you the specs for the PS when I get home (if you don't hear from me, e-mail >me to remind me.) To start it, hit return or space on the keyboard. It's the Notebook, Model 200 series. Thanks for your help. BTW, I sent you an email offering to trade some NeXT and Mac equipment for a Dash '030, but it was while I was having trouble with my email account. Did you receive the email? Interested in trading? Sincerely, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 18:19:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808122149.RAA27666@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > > > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > > > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. > > > > It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in > > the wrong disk and the OS puked all over it. > > I remember this happening if you were writing to a disk and accidentally > put the wrong one in. I can't remember the exact circumstances, but I wasn't doing anything extraordinary at the time. Just swapping disks as the OS told me when I was trying to load a source file or something silly like that. It was totally unwarranted. That's why I still remember such a silly thing to this day. It should be a case study in poor exception handling for Computer Science 201. That and the scene in the re-make of The Fly with Jeff Goldblum where the computer defaults to the chamber with the fly that ends up being merged with Jeff's character because he didn't specify the destination pod or whatever. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 17:26:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 11:15:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1892 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/efedc745/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 12 19:29:54 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: References: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812192954.0093de50@pc> At 11:26 PM 8/12/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >It's not 'really' Apple software. It's the UCSD P-system configured to >run on an Apple ][. I've got a very similar system on my Sirius, and I >believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. Interested folk might visit my UCSD web page at the address below. I've got my C source there for dealing with P-System disk images, for getting directories and bursting files from images. As for Sam's childhood trauma disk injury, should we discuss which systems didn't have a hardware-based "disk changed" indicator, and which relied on software methods to prevent that sort of disaster? >It ran >on the PERQ. But the difference between the UCSD p-system OS and the PERQ >OS (POS) was quite amazing - POS had a proper filesystem (a directory I saw my first PERQ a few weeks ago at the ACM SIGGRAPH meeting in Orlando. It was in the 70s history exhibit, along with one of my Teraks. Someone else had lent a PERQ, I don't know who. It wasn't running, though, and I don't know anything else about it. Interesting looking! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 19:35:35 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D234D7.DFCE3321@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, > < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message > < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". > < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors > < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under > < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). > > Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. SETVER unfortunately works better in the breach than the barrel. It's a nice idea, would have been great if it had worked consistently. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 19:35:36 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 12, 98 11:26:48 pm Message-ID: <199808130035.RAA27756@saul10.u.washington.edu> > > Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. > > Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. > > Are they? I've got UCSD Pascal (and Fortran, for that matter) for the > Apple ][, on Apple-labeled disks, and it came on 4 single-sided disks > Apple0, Apple1, Apple2, Apple 3. I used to use it on a 4-drive machine, > with Apple 1,2,3 and my program disk in the drives. Well, I think that's how it worked, but the last time I used the actual disks was several years ago. We may have used different versions. Of course, emulators don't care if something's on the front or back of a disk, and I use an emulator now. > It's not 'really' Apple software. It's the UCSD P-system configured to > run on an Apple ][. I've got a very similar system on my Sirius, and I > believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. > > That's why it doesn't really behave like a normal Apple program. Yes, but Apple as much as UCSD helped with the conversion and wrote system- specific libraries (none of which are documented in the generic UCSD docs I have access to). And you have to admit that Apple could have made a more flexible program. (I never managed to configure it for 80 columns, though the manual described how.) > Of course (it's been a long time since I promoted my favourite classic, > right :-)), p-code begat q-code, which was very similar with graphics > instructions (draw a line was a pseudomachine instruction!), etc. It ran > on the PERQ. But the difference between the UCSD p-system OS and the PERQ > OS (POS) was quite amazing - POS had a proper filesystem (a directory > tree, a very nice way of storing pointers to file blocks, etc), a proper > command line, a sort-of pop-up menu interface, etc, etc, etc. A very nice > OS, running on some nice hardware. Quite a toy in 1979... I *really* have to see a Perq sometime. And I'm still rather pissed at the reaction I got from the people at Bletchley Park... they DO have Perqs, but hearing "All the machines we want switched on are switched on" eliminated any hopes of seeing them the day I visited. :( -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 20:13:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980812192954.0093de50@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 12, 98 07:29:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/a9fbab50/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 20:20:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808130035.RAA27756@saul10.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 05:35:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/025669eb/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 20:41:58 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <199808121351.JAA05197@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about > it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the > messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like > every reader has it's problems. I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > ---------- > > From: cdrmool@interlog.com > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 5:03 AM > > > > > > Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were > > annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader. > > The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its > about > > as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and > > accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want > to > > send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to > > cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also, > > being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in > what > > has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but > > after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother. > > I promise it will never happen again. > > > > Colan > > -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 20:52:23 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: PERQ (was: Apple III & Profile) Message-ID: <199808130152.SAA02620@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >> I *really* have to see a Perq sometime. > >It's even more fun to own one (or 4...). They're very nice machines. >Remember they predate the IBM PC, predate the Lisa and Mac, and even >predate Xerox _selling_ workstations, although Xerox were designing >workstations long before the PERQ. I believe the same person designed the >memory controller for one of the Xerox D-machines and for the PERQ. I think we need to see some picture of your PERQs, Tony. While they're running, of course. I never even heard of a PERQ before subscribing to this list, let alone see one. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 21:12:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > > Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about > > it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the > > messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like > > every reader has it's problems. > > I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your > computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a > month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use > anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). I really hope Jason is running ROM'd versions of Microsoft apps on something like a Windows CE handheld just so I can see that hat trick! -- Doug From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Aug 12 21:51:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: PET 4016 References: <199808120702.AAA15572@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D254A4.DC93B0F3@goldrush.com> > From: > Subject: PET 4016 > > I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop > computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not > responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at > some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried > some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. > Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > > TIA > colan Remove the keyboard and undo all those little screws (takes a long time, especially after the second or third try to get a particular key working again.) , unsolder the shift-lock switch then 'Erase' the circuit board contacts with a pink pearl eraser then use the head cleaner to clean the board further. Ususally the rubber 'feet' of the keys become dry or gunky and will need to be cleaned to get them going I have seen jobs on PET keyboards to as far as putting gold leaf on the feet, but it seems to only be a temporary fix... I have found as a last resort to a troublesome key is a light brush (on the rubber foot) with fine sand paper can get the contact working again. Careful what you try you don't want to damage anything. > From: Scott Walde > Subject: Re: PET 4016 > > >Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would > >work its way under the keys and do the job, To get it to where it is needed from the outside you would just about have to soak it in cleaner (not good for the key ledgends). :/ > but I'll have to bite the > >bullet and go inside. It's not that bad, very simple design, just be grounded when you unplug and re-plug the keyboard cable... > By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? > > Typically a tape drive, maybe a disk drive, maybe a printer. The disk > drives and printers connected to the IEEE-488 bus. (One of the two > bigger edge connectors on the back.) The tape drive (the drives used on > the VIC-20 will work) connects to the narrow edge connector. Also the IEEE-488 can hook to a variety of scientific and Electronic Measuring Devices, Plotters, etc. There were also Graphics boards (for higher resolution) graphics tablets, and other nifty goodies. Check out the PET FAQ I maintain for more information: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 17:56:27 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130233.WAA29892@commercial.cgocable.net> Hi Jason! > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? Oh there are: Miniscribe (early Maxtor) 8051A (40MB, voice coil) supports XT or AT mode. Seagate in either: ST325A/X or ST351A/X (quiet stepper but pretty good). And Tandy have website for every all the way back to early models. Search for it with www.metacrawler.com By the way, squash the thoughts of getting IE installed. Get Netscape 3.04 gold (very reliable, appox 15MB total) and seperate email program like Pegasus Mail (under 1MB), suitable programs for mail use. Netscape 4.x is too new and too bloated for current crop of late 486's and most pentiums. Real bad program is IE 4.x which breaks everything especially angering those notebook owners. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Aug 13 22:03:44 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808130309.XAA10219@gate.usaor.net> > > Oh there are: > > Miniscribe (early Maxtor) 8051A (40MB, voice coil) supports XT or AT > mode. Seagate in either: ST325A/X or ST351A/X (quiet stepper but > pretty good). > Thanks! Now, does anyone have a spare one of these drives laying around?? > And Tandy have website for every all the way back to early models. > Search for it with www.metacrawler.com > > By the way, squash the thoughts of getting IE installed. Get > Netscape 3.04 gold (very reliable, appox 15MB total) and seperate > email program like Pegasus Mail (under 1MB), suitable programs for > mail use. Netscape 4.x is too new and too bloated for current > crop of late 486's and most pentiums. Real bad program is IE 4.x > which breaks everything especially angering those notebook owners. > I already tried it. Nothing ever loaded right. Java never worked, either. IE4 worked fine. It also worked fine on my Toshiba laptop, until the HD blew for the 4th time (IE didn't do it). -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 18:34:02 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130309.XAA10219@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130311.XAA30075@commercial.cgocable.net> > Thanks! Now, does anyone have a spare one of these drives laying around?? You're welcome! > > > I already tried it. Nothing ever loaded right. Java never worked, either. > IE4 worked fine. It also worked fine on my Toshiba laptop, until the HD > blew for the 4th time (IE didn't do it). I'm impressed but try again! I have asolutely no problems in all 4 corner of any worlds even on 386sx 25 bandaid notebook I have. (sloooowwwwly). What is your toshiba laptop? No excess frill programs, extras to foul up your installation attempts? Jason D. > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 18:39:41 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: WTB: 486 notebook (reasons , see below) In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130316.XAA30116@commercial.cgocable.net> Let me explain: 1. Vast mistrust to ebay guys and newsgroups so trying here because I trust everyone on this list and had good time dealing here. 2. Canadian dollars is very soft and still falling; costs 2 dollars to buy 1 US dollar. So, 300US is worth 600 CDN to get a used notebook. Which I can't afford now and not worth that value like that. 3. I'm preparing to get back into college again and most colleges campuses in Ontario, canada don't have dorms on site which I will be commuting daily by bus. I'm looking at couple places currently. The old 386 notebook I have is falling apart at the seams so I'm bespeeching (wrong word but you get the meaning! :) ) to mail list guys to find a decent used 486 notebook. Budget is around 150 to 200US across border or 350 CDN max if bought inside Canada. specs I'm looking for: 486dx2 3.3V or dx4 3.3V, Mono or TFT color, 16MB or up. FD builtin or external. 500mb or smallish HD ok 'cuz I have either 340 or 500mb hd to put in. Less than 7lbs excluding charger brick. Eurocom, compaq, TI, and thinkpads even odd brands (but still needs to be reliable and still easy to get part bits). Thanks very much and let you all guys go back to topic at hand here. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 12 22:47:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <199808130347.AA18028@world.std.com> < >believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. I've run it on Apple][, NS* Horizon(z80), and PDP-11/23 and all worked the same and fairly well though a bit slow. it was honest pascal and I used it to teach many people the language. < As for Sam's childhood trauma disk injury, should we discuss < which systems didn't have a hardware-based "disk changed" indicator, < and which relied on software methods to prevent that sort < of disaster? All of the systems I used DIDNOT have disk change logic, nor was it needed. the P-system does volcheck on a disk before writing or reading to make sure it's the right one. Likely the volume was of the same name or the kernel was corrupted. I know this as the NS* was only 80k per drive and three drives and I'd often put the wrong disk where ever. Also Most version had dupdir so if one directory was munged you could copy the other and use it. Allison From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 23:58:14 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <199808130226.WAA00816@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D27266.C7A16621@cnct.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your > > computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a > > month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use > > anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). > > > > > well , it WILL run other readers, but they won't fit. I have a Cyrix P200+ > w/80 MB RAM, and I had a 425 MB HD with 100 free MB, until lightning hit. > Now I'm stuck with a 100MB drive with 5MB free. MS-mail came with IE3.2, > which was already on the 100MB drive, along with Win '95. I normally use > Outlook Express, with IE4.0, but they just won't fit on this drive :-( My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work -- especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!) -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Thu Aug 13 10:27:52 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board Message-ID: Hi, I have one of the above, and I decided to drag it out and see if it still works, (which it did). The thing I was wondering was, did Central Point ever release the specs to the card? If not is there any chance of them doing so? As this would be a great boon to those of us who collect older stuff Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 13 00:22:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That may be very hard to find! - don > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 13 00:30:01 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Recent Updates: Highgate's PDP-8 Page Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812223001.00747dfc@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi All: Just a short note to remind everyone of the pdp-8 info that's online at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. Scans by David Gesswein, web page and small utilities by myself. New stuff just added: RK05 info, DM01 info, RX01/02 info COS-310 documentation, WPS documentation. More being added daily, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 00:32:53 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 13, 98 02:20:20 am Message-ID: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> > > And I'm still rather pissed at the reaction I got from the people at Bletchley > > This, alas is typical of computer museums. It's a great pity, especially > as I believe the Bletchley Park PERQs will just switch on. > Pity... And they wouldn't even pull the case, right, or show you the few > spare PERQ 3a boards that used to be there. The PERQ boards, especially > the PERQ 2 CPU board, are worth looking at... It's hard to express just how disappointed and even angry I was (especially without using obscenities). My expectations were high; I had come all the way from the US and had waited literally years to see the place. I was also feeling a bit cocky that day (I knew I know more than the average visitor knows, about computers and encryption and the math behind them). I hadn't had time to send e-mail in advance so knocking on the glass and introducing myself may have seemed bold. I don't envy the volunteers. They're desperately in need of money (the place is in disrepair) and they probably spend a lot of their time getting money from rich but unknowledgeable people. (Outside the shop housing the Colossus rebuild is a plaque commemorating its switching on. The plaque mentions the Duchess of Kent IIRC. The rebuild is only 1/5 or 2/5 done! [*]) Also the CCS which owns the computers is independent of the Park itself. But I still think they're making the situation worse for themselves. Their aloofness put me off ("We only come every two weeks -- we have other lives to lead, you know" someone told me in a somewhat frosty tone). The CCS is doing all kinds of projects, but very slowly. The Park's exhibits are beautiful (Their Enigma gave me exactly the same results as a simulation (except the sporadically non-lighting light bulbs, but I hear that's a common problem)) but the information underlying the exhibits is not being gathered or disseminated very quickly. Considering that these people know many things that are essentially irreplaceable (and aren't young either), I'd expect them to rethink their priorities somewhat (preserve and share what they have, welcome help, maybe come more often, and fix the buildings up). Are there cultural differences here? Are they still nervous about security? Were my expectations too high? Did I come across the wrong way? Were the wrong people there that day? All I know is that the degree of entropy there is one of the few things that can make me _really_ sad and angry. I won't even _mention_ the Science Museum (maybe next post) except to say: - The contents of the "Recent Additions" case are apparently the same as the last time someone else brought up the topic on the list. - If you go, be sure to visit the library. (Ask at the museum. It's part of (the far end of) Imperial College just down the street.) It goes a long way toward making up for the disappointment of the exhibits. And I still want to know what's in the PDP-16 book that I didn't have a chance to read! [*] 5 parallel sets of logic (one per hole in a 5-hole paper tape. Really!) The tape reader and one (or maybe two, I forget) sets of logic are done. -- Derek From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 13 00:44:30 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Karl Maftoum wrote: > > Hi, > > I have one of the above, and I decided to drag it out and see if it still > works, (which it did). The thing I was wondering was, did Central Point > ever release the specs to the card? If not is there any chance of them > doing so? As this would be a great boon to those of us who collect older > stuff > > Cheers > Karl Karl, as other will doubtless tell you also, Central Point was bought out by Symantec who now virtually denies the existance of the Deluxe Option Board or its forebears. - don From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Aug 11 11:37:16 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: <199808080702.AAA07129@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > >> >> Hi everyone... >> >>... >> the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried > >So, first open up the mouse, and clean the dirt out of the sensors.... While it's open, I also recommend you check continuity of the wires in the cable. I've had a mouse fail because there was a serious kink in one of the wires in the cable. That cable gets a lot of flexing and the kink eventually broke that wire. I got an intermittent fault so I could localize it by bending the cable manually and fix it by slitting the cable open, splicing the wire, and taping it back up. That's not a very elegant fix, but it worked. A whole new cable with a new connector at the end would be nicer. - Mark From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:43:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Message-ID: <13379378978.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Uses MSmail?] I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface than use Outlook. In fact, I normally do. HELO myhostname MAIL FROM: me RCPT TO: you DATA xyzzy . QUIT ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:51:53 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Fun with an image editor... Message-ID: <13379380453.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Know those lame "JoeBob's_Random_Browser_NOW!" buttons? I slightly edited one (Yes, this is relevant.) Go look at http://makoto.umtec.com This is really interesting coming from my MicroVAX... I think I'll do a ITS-NOW! button next, with a link to a copy of "The HACRTN"... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:52:52 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop Message-ID: <13379380632.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Yes, I typoed. It's "The HACTRN". I noticed just after sending a ^Z. My phone line sucks. ------- From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 13 02:25:14 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile References: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D294DA.3B2A5FB@rain.org> D. Peschel wrote: > > exhibits. And I still want to know what's in the PDP-16 > book that > I didn't have a chance to read! Looking for anything particular? I used to repair the PDP-16s (glorified solid state controller basically), and still have most of the engineering dwgs. From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 02:30:40 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one > of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what > should it be connected? I managed to pick up at a thrift today the Lisa 2 Owner's Guide and a MacWrite/MacPaint boxed set. This last item is notable because in it, along with all the retail pack MacWrite and MacPaint stuff I found a shrinkwrapped MacWorks disk package and a receipt from Sun Remarketing for a Mac XL ($995 + $3 shipping). Maybe the Lisa will show up tomorrow morning, I must remember to stop by on my way to work. (: Anyway: the picture in the back of the book shows the Lisa 2/5 with its Profile disk stacked on top of the CPU and.. a DB25 ribbon. So it's definitely straight-through. It is depicted connected to the internal parallel port which the Lisa 2/10 lacks. (The manual states the 10 MB widget drive plugs into an 'internal parallel port'.) ok r. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 02:38:31 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <35D294DA.3B2A5FB@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 13, 98 00:25:14 am Message-ID: <199808130738.AAA08406@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Looking for anything particular? I used to repair the PDP-16s > (glorified solid state controller basically), and still have most of the > engineering dwgs. No, I really just wanted to know how it works. They get hardly any press and are probably quite rare now, so I was impressed to see a book on them. Are they programmable in any sense of the word? My mental image is that they can be made to do some data manipulation that would be very impressive on a general-purpose computer (because of the speed -- maybe simple conversions or the kind of operation that graphics ASICs do) but are very unextendable, so you reach a point where they just won't do something. Can they be cascaded to give you more flexibility? -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 02:41:51 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379380632.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 98 11:52:52 pm Message-ID: <199808130741.AAA01438@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Yes, I typoed. It's "The HACTRN". > I noticed just after sending a ^Z. My phone line sucks. There's not much room for error with these six-character one-case names. On the other hand, I read it as "HACTRN" the first time. And I even know what a HACTRN is. (top-level DDT, right? DDT being the shell which is a glorified debugger). You'll be happy to know that you missed the tyop in your message subject... it says "tyop" instead of "typo". (Yes, the "tyop" above is intentional.) What baud rate are you using? Can the host handle 110 baud? Maybe you should step down to that rate for more reliability. :) -- Derek From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 02:48:22 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or > at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the > machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was > required? This owner's manual I found is pretty good; it's got some helpful troubleshooting routines in it.. what's happening on your unit? ok r. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 13 03:19:25 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: This Week's Haul Message-ID: This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) I've hauled all this stuff home this week, even though I wasn't really looking for stuff (just lucky!): IBM PCjr (no power supply) Timex/Sinclair 1000 TS-1016 RAM cartridge TS-2040 Printer (no power supply) Dynalogic Hyperion VIC-1906 'Alien' game cartridge for VIC-20 'Tennis' cart for CoCo, with box and docs Carts for the Atari 2600 (yes, I know it's not a computer): Grand Prix, Gyruss, Jungle Hunt, Keystone Kapers, Mega Force, Skiing, Sky Jinks, Sorcerer, Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Vanguard, Zaxxon. All from the same Salvation Army store I cursed a few weeks back for tossing out all their computer junk. Well, they keep doing it, but I'll take back my curses because I understand why they'd do such heinous things. With the way stuff has been pouring in in the past couple of months, they must get innundated with this stuff! I have a feeling that if I visited every day or two, instead of every week or two, I'd be hauling away a lot more stuff. I'm still pissed off about the potential Wang monitor tossing, but these folks are clueless about what's worth keeping. Anyway, some notes about the stuff mentioned above... The Dynalogic Hyperion isn't in nearly as good shape as the last one I hauled out of the very same store. This one is _very_ yellowed, like it's been sitting directly in the sun for a few years. Which is probably why someone installed a wire mesh in front of the display. I figure it must've been an anti-glare measure, though it's still quite shiny so maybe it was just to ease the fears of a radiation-scared employee. Anyway, whoever installed the mesh cracked chunks of the case off here and there. They also neglected to replace several screws. The internal screws they left out would've been hard to put back, though, with that mesh in front of the display. Anyway, the front panel is kind of loose. At least the ports are all labeled on this Hyperion, so I'll have to revise the poor guesses (ahem) on my web page. :) Also, there aren't any knock-out panels on this one. I did notice that there are two EPROMs in the machine. I'm definitely going to have to get an EPROMmer of some sort. One of the EPROMs in this Hyperion is soldered directly to the PCB, though, which makes things difficult. (I haven't checked the other Hyperion.) This 'new' Hyperion has some 'display issues'. :) The display on the monitor isn't square, and it jumps inward and back out frequently. Something I found interesting about the Hyperion is that the cover comes off identically to that of an old Macintosh. Undo the screws under the handle, pop the rest of the case from the front face, and pull the case off. I was scared to try popping the case on the other Hyperion, but this busted up one just begged to be looked into. On to the TS-1000. Or at least, what I assume to be a TS-1000. The label is missing, as are three of its four rubber feet, and some gummy tape had been affixed to its top. Anyway, it's got "Timex Computer Corporation" printed on its underside, and it has 2K of RAM (verified with a PRINT PEEK 16389). The motherboard says "ZX81" on it. The Sinclair ZX81 was the first computer I really wanted to buy. (Note that this is VERY different from wanting to OWN - I could actually almost afford a ZX81, I definitely could NOT afford the Northstar Advantage in one of the local shopping centres ;) ). So finally getting my hands on one is pretty special. And I was even introduced to its innards right away, because the damn thing had dead keys on the keyboard. :) It just turned out to be cracked plastic contact strip thingies. I just trimmed the contacts with scissors and shoved them back into the sockets. Hopefully I won't have to do that again or I'll run out of slack. :) It's kind of neat that I can actually SEE how the keyboard is wired, without opening the keyboard. :) The big metal ground thingy on the bottom of the board also broke off at one end. Bad solder job, I guess. :) I'm just using my Atari 2600 power supply at the moment, because the ZX81 supply wasn't there. Man is this thing slow! :) Up until now the (unexpanded) TI-99/4A was my slowest, crappiest system, but the Sinclair thing beats it for that title so easily it's not funny! But it's got nostalgic value the TI will never have for me. And besides, TIs are like earwigs around here. The Salvation Army has put at least 50 in the landfill that I know about. But this is the first Sinclair machine to turn up. The RAM cartridge has a broken, wobbly connector, and bent pins, and I can't get it to work reliably. The printer doesn't have a power supply (anyone know the specs?) or the roll of toiled paper, so I don't know if it works yet. I also don't know if the PCjr works. The external transformer was missing. I got the better keyboard with the thing, too, instead of the original button keyboard. I actually have the Tech Ref for the PCjr sitting around in a box somewhere, so it'll be cool to go poking around in it as soon as I know how. I haven't tested the VIC or CoCo carts yet, but the 2600 carts all work with the exception of Jungle Hunt, which I think just has dirty contacts. It's an Atari cartridge, though, so the contacts are 'protected' and I haven't bothered to find something to stick in those slots yet. Other recent acquisitions include an IBM-PC (5150) with 64-256K motherboard (damn!), an Atari 400 with several books, magazines, and cartridges, and some cool toys for my Amigas. The collecting has been pretty good this summer. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 13 03:28:34 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > >Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > >be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > >an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one > >of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what > >should it be connected? > > I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on > the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem > is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't > remember what it is :^( Might this cabling 'trick' apply to the Apple III as well? And if so, does anyone know what's special about the cable? That might be the source of my Profile problems with my III. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 03:36:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: This Week's Haul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) [...] > Dynalogic Hyperion You'll be happy to know we almost never see those Canadian Hyperion things in California. They're pretty cool. I think mine is the only DOS 1.x machine I've got. -- Doug From kevan at heydon.org Thu Aug 13 05:16:20 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Bletchley Park (Was Re: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > But I still think they're making the situation worse for themselves. Their > aloofness put me off ("We only come every two weeks -- we have other lives to > lead, you know" someone told me in a somewhat frosty tone). The CCS is doing > all kinds of projects, but very slowly. The Park's exhibits are beautiful A couple of times I have responded to calls for volunteers in Ressurection (The CCS journal) but I have got no reply on either occasion. It wasn't as if I was asking to be involved with the 'glamour' work rather it was for tidying/cataloging the stuff they have. Also from what I have heard from other people they are rather aloof. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Aug 13 06:22:34 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... Message-ID: >> Might this cabling 'trick' apply to the Apple III as well? >> >> And if so, does anyone know what's special about the cable? That might be >> the source of my Profile problems with my III. Doug, as I said, there's definitely nothing amazing about the cables for the ///, at least not with the controller cards I have (I don't know if anyone ever made any third-party controller boards?). They're either straight through or complete crossover, but there's no odd connections or anything. cheers Jules From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 14:34:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you think?) That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about 100 Altairs in the next few days. -- Doug From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 14:42:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808130741.AAA01438@saul9.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379520686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Tyop?] That was an intentional joke. [HACTRN] HACTRN was the top-level DDT when ITS was under timesharing. The TOP-TOP leved DDT could be considered the NTSDDT, which was what the person at the console got when ITS went belly up. Or it could be DSKDMP. The source doesn't say explicitly, and I've heard both stories. Some people elected to use a disk-enabled NTSDDT as the bootloader, and some used DSKDMP. (I think, I could be wrong). [What baud rate?] It's the telephone company. The line "disappears" for gaps of 1-30 seconds at random. The carrier isn't dropped, but no data gets across. They're having trouble with the COs around here. I'm in Peoria, IL, and I was told by a lineman whos my stepdad's friend that the problem is that when Bell System was split up years ago, the documents saying how the COs in the are talked to each other were lost. So, stuff that was considered minor were way overloaded, and stuff that was thought to be major was actually unplugged, and the like. They're trying to re-route things to establish some order, but having little/no luck. Lowering the baud rate wouldn't help. But I do have an accoustic coupler and a printing terminal... (I think the coupler's dead though...) ------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 14:44:20 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold for $4213. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x price differential. Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Altair prices $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you think?) That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about 100 Altairs in the next few days. -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 13 15:01:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 13, 98 02:34:26 pm Message-ID: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/f2f1f082/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 14:56:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 I've just been dumbstruck dead. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 15:02:55 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379520686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 13, 98 12:42:12 pm Message-ID: <199808132002.NAA13848@saul1.u.washington.edu> > [HACTRN] > HACTRN was the top-level DDT when ITS was under timesharing. > The TOP-TOP leved DDT could be considered the NTSDDT, which was what > the person at the console got when ITS went belly up. Or it could be > DSKDMP. The source doesn't say explicitly, and I've heard both stories. > Some people elected to use a disk-enabled NTSDDT as the bootloader, and > some used DSKDMP. (I think, I could be wrong). Whoa, you're over my head here. I guess that when timesharing is not enabled, you get a DDT at the console only? Perhaps a single process only? (A bit like single-user mode in UNIX?) And what does NTS stand for? I assume that DSKDMP does different things than DDT. Right? What's a non-disk-enabled NTSDDT like? ITS is such an idiomatic system. Is your machine actually running iTS? Can I get an account? I know of XKLETEN but that runs TOPS-10 (which is nice, but more conventional -- it even shares a few features with VMS. I think the syntax for file names and extensions is the same.) I got the MACSYMA manual through Interlibrary Loan... I enjoyed the description of using ITS. IIRC the process monitor will say your programs are running, but also crawling, walking, or flying, depending on system speed. > [What baud rate?] > > It's the telephone company. The line "disappears" for gaps of 1-30 seconds That's horrible. Do voice calls do the same thing? I'd think people would scream at them to fix this problem. I guess our phone service is pretty good by comparison. Most of the complaints about US West seem to be about prices and lack of customer service. -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:05:19 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132004.QAA15597@charity.harvard.net> When I saw the final bid on that altair, i nearly peed myself. Jim, if yer listening, I'm sending ya a check!!!! (not for $4K tho) Four IMSAI switch paddles and a SOL Keyboard kit :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:44 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Altair prices > > > Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed > that his only sold > for $4213. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned > simultaneously, with a 3x > price differential. > > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd > never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > > Kai > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair prices > > > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, > what do you > think?) > > That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats > the last Apple > 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get > solicitations for about > 100 Altairs in the next few days. > > -- Doug > From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 15:04:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold > for $4213. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x > price differential. A couple of differences: Jim's was listed first (by just a few minutes), so it closed first. When the billionaires lost out on Jim's to a surprise last-minute bidder, it was desparation time to get the second and last Altair -- a $12000 bid came at the very last minute. The other difference is that Jim listed his in the CPU category, which to most people means chips rather than systems, so his may have been slightly less visible. > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). But you'll trade, right? I still have that Tandy VIS :-) -- Doug From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:09:31 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132009.QAA16674@charity.harvard.net> Just think how I feel. My main point of interest *IS* S-100 systems... And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. Tony > > > > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > > (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy > sells, what do you > > think?) > > > > That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats > the last Apple > > 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get > solicitations for about > > 100 Altairs in the next few days. > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow > who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? > > I can't fault anyone for selling an Altair (especially at > these prices), > but it still sits uneasy with me. I've never sought out an Altair > specifically, because S100 has never been my focus of interest, but > now I know for sure I'll never be able to get one if I developed a > fancy for them. That's rather a downer. > > Oh well, I've still got my Imsai. It may not have been first, but > it has cooler blinkey lights. > > (Note to interested sellers: About the only thing I'd be willing > to pay $1000 for is an original table-top "straight" PDP-8 in working > condition. Hey, look at me, I'm a sucker! Now if only I could find > someone with the bait, I'd snap at it :) > > -Seth > -- > "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito > You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com > From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 13 15:10:03 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132010.NAA20147@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple >1 sale I know of. What have the Apple I's been going for? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 15:23:48 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C53E@NT486> > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: I've just been dumbstruck dead. Did you look at the card list? It has one of the old Ithaca Audio CPU cards in it. The early IA Z80 cards were a poor second choice to a Cromemco card, but probably a step up from the original TDL Z80 card (that was the first Z80 CPU out). I had one of the IA cards, threw it away when they switched to Ithaca Intersystems and started making real class boxes and boards, got one of the XPU cards instead. Those were nice, 20 bit memory addressing with an MMU, very stable, it's what I use in my IMSAI now. And not even original MITS memory to go with it! Now if it had a working (!) 4K dynamic MITS RAM board I would be impressed. That was a truly rare commodity, because of design flaws the memory usually didn't (remember, that is). Jack Peacock From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 15:15:03 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: WHAT Apple I's ? :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:10 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Altair prices >That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple >1 sale I know of. What have the Apple I's been going for? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 15:25:39 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C53F@NT486> > And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. You got a good deal. Even new they were $429 for the kit, with 8080 CPU and static RAM card. Jack Peacock From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 15:21:47 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 13, 98 01:01:43 pm Message-ID: <199808132021.NAA29815@saul1.u.washington.edu> > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across the country to a new buyer. As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) -- Derek From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 17:23:59 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <7418@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132030.PAA05367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> I took a look at this myself; I had to go see for myself. People, I've gotta tell you, this is way past the merely crazy-- this is total, unbridled, runaway *insanity* ! What is *our* hobby comming to? Whats next? Celebs pooling their money for the original source listing of AppleBASIC? (Complete with annotations by Bill Himself, sealed in an argon-filled case?!?!) This is becomming worse than those damned BeanieBabies (tm). Oy, I think I need a stiff drink now . . . Jeff At 04:05 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >When I saw the final bid on that altair, i nearly peed myself. > >Jim, if yer listening, I'm sending ya a check!!!! >(not for $4K tho) > >Four IMSAI switch paddles and a SOL Keyboard kit :) > >Tony > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:44 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: RE: Altair prices >> >> >> Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed >> that his only sold >> for $4213. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=24405966 >> >> What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned >> simultaneously, with a 3x >> price differential. >> >> Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd >> never sell them >> (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). >> >> Kai From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:33:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132037.QAA21613@charity.harvard.net> > > And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. > > You got a good deal. Even new they were $429 for the kit, > with 8080 CPU > and static RAM card. > Jack Peacock > Well, as mentioned before, I didn't get the RAM card (Still looking for one) but I did get the PIO card and an Icom 8" dual disk system for an extra $25. Tony From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 15:37:01 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808132002.NAA13848@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379530665.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [NTS?] Non-Timesharing. When the system was booted (As far I can know..) you loaded the bootstrap from a paper tape (KA10, maybe KL?) or from the disk (KS10). Then you got either NTSDDT or DSKDMP, depending on how you were set up. Then you told DSKDMP or NTSDDT to load .;@ ITS and start it. This brought the system to timesharing. NTSDDT was completely different from the HACTRN, and it's not documented. A few of the commands were the same. [Do I run ITS?] I wish :) bony is actually a Linux box, with a creatively abused copy of telnetd. It's a PWORD clone and doesn't work correctly, I'm writing a new version of it using the original source that should behave like the real one. I am trying to mutilate ITS so as to make an x86 clone of it, but I don't know what I'm doing. So it's going nowhere. ------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 15:39:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132021.NAA29815@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > > or is it simply an investment? > > It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer > collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had > verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover > letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across > the country to a new buyer. > > I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ > have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. > I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. If you're interested in actually playing with one, the schematics for the Apple 1 are readily available with a little searching. You can just re-create your own. In fact, I'd imagine you could make a pretty lucrative business making and selling Apple 1 reproductions (as well as other early classics). S-100 parts are readily available as well, and again there are schematics out there if you put a little work into searching them out. If you want to actually play with your own S-100 box, building the chassis, power supply and backplane is relatively easy. You would then need to search out just the CPU, I/O and RAM boards, which would be considerably easier than finding a complete S-100 system at this point (it would seem, although S-100 boxes can still be found if you're not simply lusting after an Altair or IMSAI). People make re-creations of old cars all the time, so the parallels of that hobby to this one should extend into that realm as well. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 15:47:06 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! http://www.lne.com/lemay/ OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else to spend his money on C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge software company D) A museum curator E) An antique dealer/speculator F) A 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing Kai -----Original Message----- From: D. Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@u.washington.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:22 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Altair prices > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across the country to a new buyer. As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) -- Derek From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 17:51:02 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: uVax Question In-Reply-To: <7418@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132057.PAA05530@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: I realize that this question has probly been raised before, but I'll ask, as I cannot seem to find the answer. I have a lead on a MicroVAX 3100-30, that I can get for what I *think* is a pretty reasonable price. But before I dive into this, I need to know: 1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a VaxServer? 2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc? 3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal? 4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc? 5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure, I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere for $50). 6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money? Jeff From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Aug 13 16:05:35 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808132105.QAA19060@trailingedge.com> But did she actually buy it? She placed her bid 6 mins before the close of the auction when the high bid was only $3000. Right at the end of the action, someone else placed a $12000 bid forcing her bid to $12100 and the reserve still hadn't been met! I got a kick out of the seller's comments, he claims the chance of ever finding another is 0 and there has never been one on EBay for as long as he has been buying and selling there. He must not check out the auctions there very closely. It sounds like he didn't expect anyone to actually make the reserve. Claimed he put a high one on it because he wanted to see what the current "market value" was. The best part was when he said he would throw in a free SWTPC emulator for Windows95. Guess after spending so much on an Altair, you couldn't afford the pick up an SWTPC as well. :-) On 13 Aug 98, at 13:47, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! > > http://www.lne.com/lemay/ > > OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you > think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? > > A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager > B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else > to spend his money on C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge > software company D) A museum curator E) An antique dealer/speculator F) A > 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing > > Kai ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 16:09:17 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 13, 98 01:47:06 pm Message-ID: <199808132109.OAA14961@saul1.u.washington.edu> > OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you > think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? > > A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager > B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else to > spend his money on > C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge software company > D) A museum curator > E) An antique dealer/speculator > F) A 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing I haven't seen _this_ URL either. But I started reading your choices and was surprised when there was no G) All of the above (they are the same person) at the end! Well, I guess A) and F) are incompatible, but the others could conceivably go together. -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 16:13:15 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379530665.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 13, 98 01:37:01 pm Message-ID: <199808132113.OAA23423@saul1.u.washington.edu> > When the system was booted (As far I can know..) you loaded the bootstrap > from a paper tape (KA10, maybe KL?) or from the disk (KS10). Then you got > either NTSDDT or DSKDMP, depending on how you were set up. > Then you told DSKDMP or NTSDDT to load .;@ ITS and start it. > This brought the system to timesharing. > NTSDDT was completely different from the HACTRN, and it's not documented. > A few of the commands were the same. Oh. That clarifies things. (Though God knows what maneuvers are going on in memory while all this is happening.) So there really is no comparison between a non-timesharing system and a timesharing system, I guess. (That is, the "single-user mode" analogy is wrong.) Does .;@ have any meaning or is it just a bunch of rarely-typed characters? > [Do I run ITS?] > I wish :) bony is actually a Linux box, with a creatively abused copy of > telnetd. It's a PWORD clone and doesn't work correctly, I'm writing a new > version of it using the original source that should behave like the real one. I thought you had an account on a -10 or a -10 clone. What about that? > I am trying to mutilate ITS so as to make an x86 clone of it, but I don't > know what I'm doing. So it's going nowhere. Aren't the sources available? (I forget the FTP site.) -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 16:16:15 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132118.RAA27402@charity.harvard.net> Full S-100 chassis are actually pretty easy to find. I have an IMSAI, and am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z2-D, a Processor Tech SOL is on the way, as is a NorthStar Horizon (an Advantage! too). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 4:39 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair prices > > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > > > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the > fellow who put in > > > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent > value to him, > > > or is it simply an investment? > > > > It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this > aspect of computer > > collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers > said that he had > > verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete > with original cover > > letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it > was shipped across > > the country to a new buyer. > > > > I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting > things to use them/ > > have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at > odds with this goal. > > I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. > > If you're interested in actually playing with one, the > schematics for the > Apple 1 are readily available with a little searching. You can just > re-create your own. In fact, I'd imagine you could make a pretty > lucrative business making and selling Apple 1 reproductions > (as well as > other early classics). > > S-100 parts are readily available as well, and again there > are schematics > out there if you put a little work into searching them out. > If you want > to actually play with your own S-100 box, building the chassis, power > supply and backplane is relatively easy. You would then need > to search > out just the CPU, I/O and RAM boards, which would be > considerably easier > than finding a complete S-100 system at this point (it would seem, > although S-100 boxes can still be found if you're not simply > lusting after > an Altair or IMSAI). > > People make re-creations of old cars all the time, so the parallels of > that hobby to this one should extend into that realm as well. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 16:16:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! > > http://www.lne.com/lemay/ A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 16:30:06 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C540@NT486> >But did she actually buy it? She placed her bid 6 mins before the close of the auction when the high bid was only $3000. Right at the end of the action, someone else placed a $12000 bid forcing her bid to $12100 and the reserve still hadn't been met! In casinos it is a common practice to have employees sit at card tables and play conservatively to fill out the card table till enough regular players are seated. This is so the games (usually poker) can continue if there aren't enough real players to make it interesting. This is a legal practice (here in Nevada) but their playing is limited and they must leave the table as soon as enough players are there. They are called "shills". There is also a type of shill in auctions. They are usually friends of the auctioneer and are briefed beforehand to make a minimum bid on certain items, to ensure the item does not go for too low a price. The auctioneer doesn't sell to the shill, just puts it back for another day. In this case the legality is dubious. Caveat Emptor, it appears shills are at work on E-bay (I'm shocked, shocked to discover price rigging!) Jack Peacock From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 16:20:41 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808132113.OAA23423@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379538614.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [.;@ have any meaning?] Yeah, it's in the . directory (; is a directory seperator, like /) and the file is called "@ ITS". ITS filenames has 2 parts, 6 characters long. [Had an account on a 10?] Yeah. Toad.xkl.com is XKL's PDP-10 clone. I also have an account on xkleten.paulallen.com, which is a similar machine. Both run TOPS-20. I don't have an account into a real PDP-10, but I've telnnetted to a TOPS-20 KL-10 and asked for the SYSTAT once... (Was bootstrap.org). [Are the ITS sources available?] Not anymore. The AI and MC dumps had all the turist homedirs in it, and that's a whole lot of private stuff. I just got really lucky. It used to be available, but the turists set up a loud wailing and they were taken offline. ------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 16:25:53 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: | -----Original Message----- | From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] | Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) | | A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) | | -- Doug You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) Kai Are you single? -In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home page. Will you go out with me? -No. Will you send me dirty email? -No. Will you post nude pictures of yourself? -No. Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? -How could you guess? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 12:58:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: PERQ (was: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: <199808130152.SAA02620@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 12, 98 06:52:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/e38736d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 12:47:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Aug 11, 98 11:37:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 698 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/9374de5f/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 16:26:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132010.NAA20147@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > What have the Apple I's been going for? One was listed on Haggle a while back for $17K, and it went for $12K a bit later. Here are some Altair and IMSAI prices that I remember from the last few months (from memory): Altairs: $ 200 $ 500 $ 1500 $ 1800 $ 1900 $ 2100 $ 4213 $12100 IMSAIs: $ 250 $ 250 $ 300 $ 500 $ 600 $ 1000 $ 2524 Bottom line: it pays to shop around :-) -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 13:22:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 10:32:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/d2ebf9cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 13:27:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Bletchley Park (Was Re: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Aug 13, 98 03:16:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/b99304dc/attachment.ksh From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 18:32:30 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <7425@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 01:21 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely >> depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in >> the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, >> or is it simply an investment? > >I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. > >It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer >collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had >verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover >letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across >the country to a new buyer. I'll tell you why it's depressing. We had such a good thing going-- the whole world was (is) dominated by the PeeCee, nobody but us *real* hobbyists cared about the interesting "old" stuff. It was a *real* hobby-- anyone with a *couple* (meaning two) of dollars could get into the act. ALl you needed to have some truly interesting stuff was a voltmeter, a terminal, and just a little luck. Well, kiddies, the party's over. "Investment Grade" antique technology is here to stay, it seems. Well I'll tell you what, guys. They can *have* it. I'll have nothing more to do with "Investment Grade" computers. One experience was enough to show me the level of perversion that can be attained with this mindset. >As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to >have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too >warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just >change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not >to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this >being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a >cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. Yeah, it wasn't that great of a machine, even in it's own time (although, of course, quite historic). But such was the lot of the hobbyist at the time. >I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ >have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. >I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will produce a productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will produce a bad outcome. This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids withoout alot of money can enjoy the 'rush' of putting an old system together and running it (something *I* couldn't do when I was a kid). But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the 'traditional' hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably lost. Hopefully, we are still a decade or so away from the complete commercialization of our hobby. I can't bear the though of the classic computer going the way of the baseball card, and the comic book . . . >There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, >given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) And what I'm saying is that you don't need them to enjoy the hobby. In fact, I'm convinced now that having *anything* that's considered 'Investment Grade' would *preclude* you from experiencing the enjoyment factor. Our Pre-PC heritage is so vast and diverse, there literally must be something (else) out there for everyobody. Jeff *FOR SALE* Slightly used SOAPBOX. Used only once to annoy computer geeks online. From cgregory at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 13 16:40:47 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: <011301bdc703$0c000880$a927a2ce@cgregory> I can't vouch for the young lady personally, but she is a fairly decent author. I have one (maybe two) of her HTML books around here somewhere. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 6:25 PM Subject: RE: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) > >| -----Original Message----- >| From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >| Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM >| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >| Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) >| >| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) >| >| -- Doug > >You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) > >Kai > > > >Are you single? >-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home >page. > >Will you go out with me? >-No. > >Will you send me dirty email? >-No. > >Will you post nude pictures of yourself? >-No. > >Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? >-How could you guess? From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 13 16:54:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132154.AA08878@world.std.com> < And not even original MITS memory to go with it! Now if it had a < working (!) 4K dynamic MITS RAM board I would be impressed. That was a < truly rare commodity, because of design flaws the memory usually didn't < (remember, that is). < Jack Peacock So true. A working one was memorable. At one point I have 3 ea of the 88mcd-4k and 88s4k and neither were much fun save for mine were modified to use UPD410 (static ram) that had the same pinout as the 4060. Those actually worked! Allison From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:00:55 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > >Kai Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my Altairs. (dontcha just love a good mystery?) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:02:44 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813150244.03376950@agora.rdrop.com> At 01:01 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >> $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 >> >> (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >> think?) < snippage> > >(Note to interested sellers: About the only thing I'd be willing >to pay $1000 for is an original table-top "straight" PDP-8 in working >condition. Hey, look at me, I'm a sucker! Now if only I could find >someone with the bait, I'd snap at it :) Good luck... I had an offer out for quite a while to trade an Altair straight across for a "straight" 8, and no one took me up on it... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 17:14:21 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Mystery (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: Hmm, I guess that means either: 1) You sold a friend's Altair on their behalf; or 2) You bid on it yourself? By the way, ya still owe me that ROM board, ya big lug! :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:01 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Altair prices At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > >Kai Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my Altairs. (dontcha just love a good mystery?) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:25:11 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices (part deux) In-Reply-To: <199808132154.AA08878@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813152511.03384100@agora.rdrop.com> ...and just to show that they have not run out of money quite yet, bidding on a a single later model ('B' series styling) 8 inch Altair floppy disk unit is now up to $790.00 with over a day left to go before closing... Yes, insanity rules indeed! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From van at wired.com Thu Aug 13 17:47:21 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First of all, she's _not_ a babe. I would be interested in knowing if she follows through with the sale...that price is REDICULOUSLY inflated, even for ebay. I think someone should email the seller. Anyone? van >Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) >| >| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) >| >| -- Doug > >You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) > >Kai > > > >Are you single? >-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home >page. > >Will you go out with me? >-No. > >Will you send me dirty email? >-No. > >Will you post nude pictures of yourself? >-No. > >Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? >-How could you guess? ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 13 18:13:53 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: uVax Question In-Reply-To: <199808132057.PAA05530@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 13, 98 03:51:02 pm Message-ID: <199808132313.QAA00911@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/17af21e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 16:55:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 13, 98 01:01:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/d4a68f76/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:23:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: I can (somewhat) understand an Apple 1 auctioning for $10K+, because it is purported that only 200 or so exist. But how many thousands of Altairs were sold either in kit or assembled form? That's where it just doesn't make sense that people would be willing to pay such ridiculous prices for an old computer, be it collectable or whatever. It just boils down to plain ignorance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:32:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will > produce a productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will > produce a bad outcome. This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids > withoout alot of money can enjoy the 'rush' of putting an old system > together and running it (something *I* couldn't do when I was a kid). > > But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the > 'traditional' hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably > lost. Hopefully, we are still a decade or so away from the complete > commercialization of our hobby. I can't bear the though of the classic > computer going the way of the baseball card, and the comic book . . . We spoke on this topic last year, and I and a couple others prognosticated that the then somehwat tame trend towards escalating prices for older computers would reach the levels we are seeing today. It was just a matter of how fast, and it basically came upon us as fast as I expected it would. That's why I've been busy loading my garage up with stuff. I knew well enough to get the goods while the getting's good. Once I've got some spare time, I can sit back and enjoy tinkering with my (cheaply accumulated) collection while the newly-interested collectors are scratching and clawing for that latest "RARE TimexSinclair 1000!!!" on eBay. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:37:51 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote: > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > > Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my > Altairs. > > (dontcha just love a good mystery?) Aha! So what was your commission? ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 18:50:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 13, 98 04:32:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4079 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/f4ced469/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 19:21:41 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813172141.034f3500@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:37 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, the thread continued: > >> >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >> >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). >> >> Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my >> Altairs. >> >> (dontcha just love a good mystery?) > >Aha! So what was your commission? ;) > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Better than I expected since it cleared the reserve (by a fair bit)... It should pay for my trip down to VCF II. B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 13 19:44:39 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <13379378978.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35D38877.7F713551@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Uses MSmail?] > > I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface > than use Outlook. > In fact, I normally do. > > HELO myhostname > MAIL FROM: me > RCPT TO: you > DATA > xyzzy > . > QUIT > > ------- That requires a direct doorway through the firewall. Merrill does not grant me that as a contractor, nor does it give such access willingly to long-term (we're talking decades, folks) employees. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 13 19:51:28 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: I agree totally. it's starting to happen around here also. thankfully, ive got enough stuff already, but am always looking for more. several weeks ago, someone posted to the list about a coleco adam for sale in nc. i emailed the person who said ~10 people had bidded on it and she was taking the highest offer. i was rather surprised as i thought i'd be able to get it for $10 or so since no one else would be interested in it. I think that the well known "rare" computers like lisae, altairs, and so forth will inflate in price first, and then lessor known computers will not for a time, which means stock up now while prices are still cheap. In a message dated 98-08-13 19:35:05 EDT, Sam Ismail put forth: << We spoke on this topic last year, and I and a couple others prognosticated that the then somehwat tame trend towards escalating prices for older computers would reach the levels we are seeing today. It was just a matter of how fast, and it basically came upon us as fast as I expected it would. That's why I've been busy loading my garage up with stuff. I knew well enough to get the goods while the getting's good. Once I've got some spare time, I can sit back and enjoy tinkering with my (cheaply accumulated) collection while the newly-interested collectors are scratching and clawing for that latest "RARE TimexSinclair 1000!!!" on eBay. >> From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Aug 13 19:42:42 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980813173008.75a71b84@ricochet.net> At 03:04 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). Well, if I had an Altair, I think I'd probably put it up for auction -- I desparately need a new roof, and I can think of a lot of more important reasons to sell something I wouldn't normally think of selling. Can't fault him, but I can be envious! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 13 20:35:14 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? Message-ID: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I acquired a PDP-8/L not too long ago, and in discussion with the original owner he advised I have a fire extinguisher on hand when I power it up. That concerns me, as I'd rather not burn up a PDP-8/L (or the house). What can I do to ensure the -8/L wont catch fire (or do anything else equally bad) when I turn it on? I don't have a very good knowledge of electronics, but I can certainly open it up and examine boards. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From kroma at worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 13 21:05:21 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? Message-ID: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Check out this article at ZDNet http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm l From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 21:18:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, kroma wrote: > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm Another business plan that sounds like it was conjured up during an acid trip. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 21:20:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, kroma wrote: > > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm > l Fascinating; it's a 486 machine that has absolutely nothing to do with a C64. Why would anybody in their right mind try to build that association for their product? -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:13:10 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13618@gate.usaor.net> The hard drive or the computer? If you're talking about the HD, than I know what you mean. If you mean the computer, just go to the elementary school that I used to go to -- They had 30 of 'em. The one that I have now (and my other two 1000's) were given to me by my high school -free... -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:22 AM > > > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > That may be very hard to find! > - don > From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:17:25 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13637@gate.usaor.net> > I'm impressed but try again! I have asolutely no problems in all 4 > corner of any worlds even on 386sx 25 bandaid notebook I have. > (sloooowwwwly). What is your toshiba laptop? > Well, it's a VERY crappy 100MHz Pentium w/ 8 meg of RAM. The HD has blown 4 times already. Half the time the CD-ROM and floppy don't work, and Resume never worked. The screen shattered about 3 months ago (while I was using it). The modem may be part of the problem. It's a IBM 14.4 made for Win 3.1 and OS/2, using software for a totally different modem, because it's the only driver that works. > No excess frill programs, extras to foul up your installation > attempts? > -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:32:02 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> > My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or > Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much > room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work -- > especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't > try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I > thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!) It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 PS>> just forget about your hat. From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:32:37 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13671@gate.usaor.net> Well..... ---------- > From: Daniel A. Seagraves > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:43 AM > > [Uses MSmail?] > > I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface > than use Outlook. > In fact, I normally do. > > HELO myhostname > MAIL FROM: me > RCPT TO: you > DATA > xyzzy > . > QUIT > > ------- From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Aug 13 22:00:48 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980813230041.006c93c8@netpath.net> I think I can wait ten years for this one, maybe even less if it hits the market like I think it will. ;) At 09:20 PM 8/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Fascinating; it's a 486 machine that has absolutely nothing to do with a >C64. Why would anybody in their right mind try to build that association >for their product? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 22:10:47 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a toenail clipping... > PS>> just forget about your hat. PS>> try Windows 3.11 "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" r. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 13 22:14:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: uVax Question Message-ID: <199808140314.AA24963@world.std.com> < 1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a < VaxServer? Everything or nothing depending on model. generally the vaxserver/microvax have no or minimal video. Vaxstations are the higher end video console. < 2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software < available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard < to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc? Popular. the rest I cant answer as they are as unPC as they come. the disks are SCSI and ram is simms(maybe oddball though). Generally VMS runs in 4mb but 8mb or more is desireable, with 12mb it sings and 16mb is the max. < 3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal? Varies from a serial terminal to high end color graphics. <4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc? Test 50, show device, show mem at the >>> prompt. < 5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure, < I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere < for $50). NOT $500! free to 150(loaded). The monitors are worth more than the systems in some cases. I'll be selling a few Vaxserver3100 M10es 12meg ram and RZ24l Disk(245mb) for $60 at MIT FLEA with VMS 5.5 (nolicense but useable for single user and the DECUS license). This model has no video and uses a regular terminal (I'm selling VT320s for those that may need). < 6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money? depends on what you know of VAXen and the operating systems that run on them. (VMS, Ultrix (some not all models), NetBSD netboot, hopefully scsi support soon). Allison From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Aug 13 18:18:35 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: References: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808140255.WAA04213@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:10:47 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. > > Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small > disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a > toenail clipping... > > > PS>> just forget about your hat. > > PS>> try Windows 3.11 > > "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" > r. Guys... think in Jason's shoes... Maybe that Jason does not have floppy drive or broken or a no cd for win 3.x installation disk...? Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Aug 13 23:40:07 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair insanity Message-ID: <199808140437.XAA17287@garcon.laidbak.com> This is good. If I'm lucky and things keep going like they are, my Apple collection, which at original list prices is worth around $60k, should soon be worth twice that. And, my PS/2 Model 80, which originally listed for $10k, will bring that price again. All we can hope for is that this craze will go the way of collectible sports cars -- after a short period of total insanity in which people were willing to pay $90k OVER LIST PRICE just to get on a waiting list for an Acura NSX or a Viper, the bottom fell out and nobody wanted to buy them from the morons who paid double price for 'em. I just hope that Jag XKE's come down to reality sometime again so I can own one. And, I'd actually drive the damn thing instead of putting it up on blocks under a cover in a locked, climate-controlled garage........... Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 00:13:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> from "kroma" at Aug 13, 98 10:05:21 pm Message-ID: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/5de1b269/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 00:34:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > That's really sick. The only thing it has in common with the Commodore 64 > is the letter 'C'. And even that's sketchy at best. > > What's next? An Apple ][e Web.whozamajigit based on a Cyrix CPU? Actually, Tiger Electronics made an Apple //e clone last year and released it under the guise of the Tiger Learning Computer. It was an Apple //e with a ROM drive emulating slot 6, drive 1. It had a mouse, a small LCD screen, Appleoft BASIC in ROM, had an AppleWorks carthridge, and I believe a port for an external disk drive. It sold for about $250 and the target market was kids 4-8 or something like that. It was sort of like those chinsy toy computers you see in the toy departments but it actually was a real live computer based on the Apple //e. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 01:19:43 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> It is likely that I am the only person on this list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until two years ago. I will now probably be asked to leave but before that happens I would like to share my Altair "experiences" with you. This will be long winded so if you are only interested in "sound-bite" length messages hit your back button now. This little story cannot be told in a couple of sentences. I no longer remember how I learned of the existence of the Altair 8800 but it was about a year and a half ago. I learned about the history of it and it's association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could be a big deal so I started looking for them. Almost immediately I discovered a source. I bought eight of them for from $100 to $300 apiece in about two months time. At that time the price edged up to $3-500 so I said to hell with it and stopped buying. I then put it all on the back burner for six months. Then, earlier this year, someone offered to buy one from me for $800. I thought this was a sucker price so gladly let it go. Two weeks later, that last batch of Altairs and drives went on Ebay. The computers sold for roughly $2K apiece. As a lark, I immediately listed a MITS serial board and modem board on Ebay. At the time I was so ignorant about what I had that I listed them separately. I did not even know that together they are a cassette interface. One brought $250 and the other $200. I could not believe it. $450! Like everyone on this list, I was somewhat shocked that the computers had actually sold for $2K. When I first discovered this list (six months ago) I posted asking for your opinions of the value of an Altair 8800. As always, you all were very responsive. I vividly remember Jim Willing stating that, in his opinion, the 8800 was worth $250. So I concluded that the $2000 Ebay bids must be the "real" sucker price. I offered the buyer of my boards one of my 8800's for $2K. Sold it. Then a week later sold him two more for $1500 each. I now had payed for every Altair item I had ever bought and had a tidy profit as well. I was ecstatic. Then, needless to say, I started to actively buy them again. Went back to my one (and only) source and bought four more 8800's, one 8800a, two 8800b's, one turnkey b, one Attache, seven Altair floppy drives, two MITS hard drives, controllers, four Imsai's, three Sol 20's, every iminaginable software, and enough docs and literature to fill a four drawer filing cabinet. And I stumbled onto what may be the only surviving example of a still unassembled Altair 8800 kit. Up until last week I had been able to have it all shipped to me but the last load was too much to ship so I drove almost 2000 miles round trip to retrieve it. When I returned Friday a friend informed me that two Altairs had been listed the day before on Ebay. (I still do not understand the amazing coincidence of two separate sellers listing Altair's within 35 minutes of each other since it had been four months since the last ones were listed). It occurred to me that since the Altair's were about to be hyped again that I should participate. Since I had just come home with five Altair floppy drives, I decided that was the logical thing to sell. The auction ends today (Friday). My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able to buy any more. I now think of the six months I passed on them because I would have had to pay $400. If I had kept buying during that time I would have a great many more of them now. But I feel very fortunate to have the ones I do. Why am I telling you all of this? It is because I have been engaged in buying and selling collectibles for 25 years. I was in on the beginnings of many other of these kinds of phenomena (jukeboxes, antique radio, Coca-Cola, the list is long). But I have never had so much fun as I have had with this. There is no doubt that my involvement with it is totally different from that of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that (based on much of what I have read here) that many will find it deplorable that someone like me is a subscriber. But the personal computer is now as important as the electric lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing the birth of that. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 01:39:14 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> At 23:19 13-08-98 PDT, you wrote: >It is likely that I am the only person on this >list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles >dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until I can only speak for myself, not the list. I'm truly sorry that you seem to have no interest in actually doing something with the equipment you buy. I firmly believe that it is your loss that you likely don't know one end of a soldering iron or wire-wrap tool from the other. I'm equally sorry that your only interest in the gear seems to be how much it can bring in, income-wise. Those who buy Altairs, or whatever other "collectible" machine you happen to be selling, at the prices you're asking, are the real "suckers" in this field. This list, to me, is about what one can do with older computer hardware BESIDES sell it. Specifically, about finding ways to make it useful and to educate others about the rich history of the field. While this may include mention of the machine's financial value, I've never believed that money should be the primary focus of 'classic' computing as a hobby. What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the list, it will not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope that you choose to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where computer hardware is concerned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 01:46:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that > (based on much of what I have read here) that many > will find it deplorable that someone like me is a > subscriber. As far as I'm concerned, not at all. I've always maintained that there is no one right reason for collecting computers. If you can make money off of them, so be it. What I'm concerned about is that people would actually be willing to pay the prices we've been seeing. I just can't believe this "source" you found. In light of recent events, it sounds like you found the equivalent of the richest vein of gold during the gold rush. Some people have ALL the luck ;) > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric > lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples > will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first > light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing > the birth of that. At least Edison's light bulb worked well :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 01:49:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the > list, it will not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope > that you choose to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where > computer hardware is concerned. To each his own, Bruce. ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 01:56:19 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > It is likely that I am the only person on this > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > dealer. I have no problem with this. The more diverse this list, the better. I am aware of others who are also on the list that share the profit motive, so I believe you're not alone. > I no longer remember how I learned of the existence of the Altair 8800 > but it was about a year and a half ago. I learned about the history of > it and it's association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's > business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could be a big > deal so I started looking for them. Obviously, the Altair's popularity has benefited tremendously by Microsoft's success. The PDP-10 was probably even more influential, and I remember when Microsoft did most of their development on VAXen, but I doubt these machines will ever have the same collector appeal as the Altair. > And I stumbled onto what may be the only surviving example of a still > unassembled Altair 8800 kit. I think you're the third person this year I know of that has found the sole surviving Altair kit :-) > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric lamp was > 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples will be regarded with > the same reverance as Edison's first light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one > of the people witnessing the birth of that. But the Altair wasn't the first personal computer, so maybe the Ford Model-T would be a better analogy. The Altair's place in history is really about Microsoft and the early hobbiest movement, not about computers in general. Affordable desktop computers have been around since the 60's (and even the late 50's if you include analog machines like the EC-1 at $199). The main area in which I think for-profit dealers can contribute would be in a grading system and price guides, something that is interesting to all collectors, even if they have no plans to sell. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 02:15:51 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > > Check out this article at ZDNet > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm > > l > > That's really sick. The only thing it has in common with the Commodore 64 > is the letter 'C'. And even that's sketchy at best. For something more insteresting, that DOES have something to do with the Commodore 64, check out: http://www.sidstation.com Hopefully they only pull SIDs from C64s with dead PLAs. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 02:25:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something just struck me (ouch). If Microsoft's success has had this effect on Altair prices, what will happen when Linux takes over and Microsoft is out of business? I want to get in early. Does anybody which brand of 386 machine Linus first used? -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 02:31:07 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > I cleaned out the mouse, but I haven't done anything else yet. Tony gave > > Did you just remove the ball and clean the rollers, or did you take off > the cover and blow the dirt out of the optoswitches? Blew the dirt out of the optoswitches, as well as I could. I didn't feel like braking the little wheels while trying to remove them, so I didn't. > > me some info on how the critters work, but I haven't had time to look into > > it yet. I still don't know if it's the mouse or the Mac with the fault. > > One good thing - if it is the mac, then it's one of 2 standard chips - > the 8530 SCC or the 6522 VIA. Neither are hard to obtain. Great! I dread opening up the Mac, though, so I hope it's the mouse. Only the ROMs are socketed, and there's that nasty CRT and power supply just waiting to kill me. > > One useful thing would be the Mac's mouse port pinout, though, so that I > > at least know what pins to look at. And the Apple //c's, too. > > OK, here's the Mac (128/512/Plus) pinout > > 1 Ground > 2 +5V > 3 Ground > 4 X2 (VIA PB4) > 5 X1 (SCC DCDA) > 6 N/C > 7 Switch (VIA PB3) > 8 Y2 (VIA PB5) > 9 Y1 (SCC DCDB) Excellent! Thanks. Maybe I'll wire up a spare Amiga mouse first to see what happens. :) According to the "Introduction to Amiga" book I got with my A1000, the mouse pinouts on the Amiga are as follows: 1 Mouse Vertical 2 Mouse Horizontal 3 Vertical Quadrature 4 Horizontal Quadrature 5 Mouse Button 2 6 Mouse Button 1 7 +5V (125 mA) 8 GND 9 Mouse Button 3 So I guess Mouse Vertical on the Amiga mouse would go to Y1 on the Mac, Vertical Quadrature to Y2, etc? > I'd start by looking at the appropriate pins on the mouse connector with > a logic probe. THAT's the item I forgot to shop for today (logic probe). I finally got the replacement NiCd battery for my Amiga 3000, and a fresh roll of rosin core solder, but I felt like I should be looking for something else while I was spooking around electronics shops. Of course, I have no idea what a logic probe costs... but I found instructions on how to build a simple one in an old Sinclair book I was looking at last night. > If one of the 'Y' signals is not changing state, then look > in the mouse. If they both are, then trace the signals through the RFI > filters (the yellow DIP packages near the back of the logic board) to the > pins on the chips. If they don't get that far, time to replace the RFI > filter. If they do, then check/replace the VIA or SCC chips. Makes sense, and doesn't sound too hairy. Once I get a logic probe. > As I don't have a real Apple mouse, I can't be more specific, alas. It seems a lot of people have dead or missing Apple mouses. > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 03:12:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980810091654.007ff740@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:10 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's > >been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be > > I slid the cover back, nothing there, which is what I assumed, since I saw > no ports sticking out the back. This reminds me. I've got a Tandy 1000EX with a 1200baud modem card in it, but I've not yet figured out how to get the modem to work. I tried it with Commo (?) and a couple of other programs that I scrounged from BBSes. I played with IRQ settings and stuff, and eventually got SOME kind of response from the modem, but never managed to get it to dial out. One interesting thing to note about the modem is that it has to be the top card in the stack. It doesn't have pins on it to pass the buss through to another card. Another interesting thing is that my machine's RF shielding seems to have been largely composed of metalicized cardboard, which was roughly ripped open over the expansion bus. (Ugly) > Funny, even the CoCo series had a serial port on the back. Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed seeing the port. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 03:29:28 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 13, 98 11:19:43 pm Message-ID: <199808140829.BAA01836@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/1a25dcb3/attachment.ksh From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 03:29:47 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814082947.20729.qmail@hotmail.com> > >I think you're the third person this year I know of that has found the >sole surviving Altair kit :-) I think what may have happened, Doug, is that over the course of the year I have mentioned it in passing to some of the people who read this list. I am not known to you folks so I am guessing that the same unassembled kit was brought to your attention by others. If that is not the case and other kits have been found I would sincerely like to hear from those who may be in possession of them. I have some unanswered questions about the example I found and would like to compare it to any others. > >But the Altair wasn't the first personal computer, so maybe the Ford >Model-T would be a better analogy. The Altair's place in history is >really about Microsoft and the early hobbiest movement, not about >computers in general. Affordable desktop computers have been around since >the 60's (and even the late 50's if you include analog machines like the >EC-1 at $199). I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough numbers to become a collectible. The Mark 8 and Scelbi, for example, suffer from extreme rarity. They are now virtually non existent. So will never attract the widespread interest of the Altair. numbers > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 04:27:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814082947.20729.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the > 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the > start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough numbers > to become a collectible. The Mark 8 and Scelbi, for example, suffer from > extreme rarity. They are now virtually non existent. So will never > attract the widespread interest of the Altair. numbers An an amateur quasi-historian, I think the misperception about the Altair's significance is a shame. There are computers that were produced in similar numbers that are much more interesting, and even more fun to play with. The Altair and the Apple 1 both started at about the same time, but the Apple went on to have a much greater impact on "personal" interactive computing in the form of the Apple ][. IBM's PC was a response to the Apple ][, and that set the stage for the way things have been ever since. The only real influence of the Altair was that Wozniak held it in contempt and modeled his machine more on the desktop models he saw at HP, like the HP 9830A with built-in BASIC from 1972. So, in my quasi-historian opinion, the Altair can safely be ignored by collectors, or treated as an interesting freak, since the only influence it had that survives today is the choice of an Intel CPU. However, the influence of an interactive desktop machine like the HP 9830 can still be felt very strongly. The 9830 would get my vote as the most collectible early machine that is fairly accessible. BTW, a parallel that I find very interesting is that in 1975, IBM came out with their first "personal" computer, the IBM 5100. This machine was a direct response to the HP 9830, just as their IBM 5150 was a direct response to the Apple ][. If the Altair had never existed, things would probably be just the same as they are today. The Altair is practically out of the historical loop :-) -- Doug From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 05:16:41 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980814061508.006d1334@netpath.net> At 04:12 AM 8/14/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: >Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing >this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed >seeing the port. :) You mean I'm not crazy for not seeing this "invisible port" everyone was talking about? :) BTW, I never did return to the flea market to retreive that 1000 HX. It was raining, I had the baby with me, it was bad karma all around. Maybe next year... - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 05:16:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I don't think the PDP-8 is much of a fire hazard, but some old computer equipment can be. This is from an old Usenet article I just bumped into: << Those are the New Old disks. The OLD disks used hydraulically driven pistons (oil) to move the heads across the drive. The pump was driven by the same Very Large motor (probably one horse or more) which spun the disk. They held a LOT of data though: IBM 2311's held somewhere close to 20 megabytes, if memory serves. (Memory may not be serving today, and my manuals are all at home). Besides having the nasty habit of leaking oil all over the floor, both these and the linear motor voice coil machines DID tend to walk around a lot. Some of those drives (Memorex or IBM, can't remember which) also liked to catch fire. >> -- Doug From kevan at heydon.org Fri Aug 14 06:50:46 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The main area in which I think for-profit dealers can contribute would be > in a grading system and price guides, something that is interesting to all > collectors, even if they have no plans to sell. I agree. Insurance companies like to put value on things, and currently this is very difficult for me to do with my collection at the moment. There are a few items which I might be able to take a guess at, but for the majority there is no 'market value' -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 15 08:05:48 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808141335.JAA21798@gate.usaor.net> Why don't we do everyone a real favor and just drop this whole thing. I'm getting a 7.1GB drive next week, anyway. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 11:10 PM > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. > > Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small > disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a > toenail clipping... > > > PS>> just forget about your hat. > > PS>> try Windows 3.11 > > "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" > r. > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 09:47:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814094705.00c0b450@pc> At 10:05 PM 8/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Check out this article at ZDNet >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm Emulators are doing quite well these days. I can run an Amiga emulator on my dual PPro 200 system at speeds quite comparable to the original machines. The C-64 emulators are great, too. The problem comes in the rights to the software, both in the OS and the applications/games you intend to run. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 09:48:57 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814094857.00cd1220@pc> At 11:19 PM 8/13/98 PDT, Bob Wood wrote: >It is likely that I am the only person on this >list who is a total "outsider". As a guy with a few rooms of old computers, I'll step forward to shake your hand and congratulate you. Foo on those who think you're evil for driving up prices - obviously, your buyers didn't think the price was outrageous, and you made them happy. Scroungers will always find stuff for next-to-nothing. I don't know how anyone can assume that your buyers "won't use their computer, and are just collecting them." Sour grapes. A lot of packrats do the same thing - they're holding on to them because they have high personal value. If nothing else, higher prices may same a few more old machines from the dusty attics and Dumpsters. That's the first step in preservation. - John From cdrmool at interlog.com Fri Aug 14 09:53:04 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? colan From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 14 09:44:42 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Fri, 14 Aug 1998 04:27:45 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > An an amateur quasi-historian, I think the misperception about the > Altair's significance is a shame. There are computers that were produced > in similar numbers that are much more interesting, and even more fun to > play with. Here's what is significant about MITS and the Altair 8800: It arrived on the scene with a price that firmly fixed in lots of folks' heads the idea that "I can own a computer." And it was obviously a useful computer that could be expanded to do real work just like the real computer in the fishbowl at the office, not something that could only be appreciated through the lights and switches on its front panel. And MITS' hardware was flaky enough that other folks felt encouraged to build stuff for its bus, and even build other systems using its bus. That made the Altair bus a de facto standard of its day, and one that stuck around for the next few days too. > The Altair and the Apple 1 both started at about the same time, but the > Apple went on to have a much greater impact on "personal" interactive > computing in the form of the Apple ][. IBM's PC was a response to the > Apple ][, and that set the stage for the way things have been ever since. I'd venture to say that Altair buyers saw the Altair as having the potential to be this sort of "interactive" machine too. The base configuration wasn't, but it was clear that you could buy more memory, a current-loop interface, a Teletype, and run BASIC. And that was the goal a lot of folks had then. That put you in the big leagues with the minis that you might be using at work or in school, and put the user in control of the computer. That said, I think that if MITS hadn't done it with the Altair, someone else would have done it soon enough. -Frank McConnell From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 10:15:26 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 10:52:24 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Sorry 'bout that... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814085224.00e51440@mail.jps.net> OK... that's the -last- time I try to write something coherent when it's the night after a 90-degree day, near midnight, with a temperature still in the high 70's. Bob, I must apologize to both you and the list. You caught the brunt of one of my foulest moods to date. It's all to easy to forget that if the seller and buyer are both happy with the price, fine. A good deal was struck. However it's done, keeping vintage machines out of the hands of scrappers is always a worthy goal. I may not always agree about pricing, but that's me. I'll see a bunch of you at VCF 2.0. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Aug 14 11:46:28 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair sale/use Message-ID: Being the custodian of an Altair, an IMSAI system, a clutch of NorthStars, etc., etc.... I am of the opinion that any activity which tends to *preserve* the items of our interest is intrinsically a Good Thing. I am a user and a collector of old systems, and I empathasize strongly with the "Collect to Use" folks on this list. BUT: having spent many years in the electronic surplus business, I also know that side of things. Bob is making a good living in collectible computers just now... 16 hrs a day 7 days a week (my kind of hours!!).... he has discovered and turned over many classic systems... which would be *where* today if not for his efforts?? I understand the frustration when dilletantes invade and a collectible 'fad' develops... it does, unfortunately, prevent some of us from having the hardware we want. I wish that wasn't so, but it *is* the free market. There are, however, many aspects of this hobby... and there are some who collect to use, some who 'warehouse', some who collect to trade. To me, it all means that fewer Altairs will be lost forever.... My $.02, anyway. Cheers John PS: My Altair came from a big rack of 70's-era aerospace test systems... I first saw it in one of the buildings of the surplus company I worked for from 78 - 82. At that time, it was just one of those wierd old S-100 machines... and I couldn't afford the IMSAI I wanted... I ended up with a Cromemco Z2H. It was not until I joined this list that I remembered about the Altair.. so I went back to the old place, got the keys to the room.. and there it was, dusty and forgotten. I paid my ex-boss $50 for it, and the rescue was done. No, there aren't any more... trust me, I *looked* ;} J From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Aug 14 12:19:23 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as other systems, I think). Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > >colan > From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 12:21:01 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will happily parcel out what I don't need. There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and sorting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 12:29:13 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980814132913.00814180@netpath.net> GRiD Systems, Inc. GRiDCase 3, circa 1985 had GRiD-DOS 2.11 ROMs. At 01:19 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as >other systems, I think). > >Cliff Gregory >cgregory@lrbcg.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >To: Cgregory >Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM >Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > >> >>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? >> >> >>colan >> > > From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 13:06:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 14, 98 10:21:01 am Message-ID: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/4f30dd02/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 13:32:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <199808141832.AA16278@world.std.com> < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. I still have disks with the original distribution markings (long since reformatted). Allison From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 14 13:37:34 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Cliff Gregory wrote: > Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as > other systems, I think). > > Cliff Gregory > cgregory@lrbcg.com True! It was also packaged with the early Kaypro PCs as I recall. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Cgregory > Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM > Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > > > > >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been > >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > > > > >colan > > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 14 13:50:07 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes References: Message-ID: <35D486DE.B3A91A12@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I > didn't have a blown powersupply , instead I had managed to short the > power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just > fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other > boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^) > > However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the > backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC > had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and > remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and > BA123 backplanes. Jerome Fine replies: Has anyone helped in this request? I believe that the following is true: BA23: First 3 slots are ABCD Next 5 slots are ABAB or Q22 In short, you can place only one board in the first 3 slots. If the board is a dual, you loose the other half. The last five slots are able to use either a quad or 2 duals. The bus grant loop is serpentine. 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 4C, 5C, 5A, 6A, 6C, 7C, 7A, 8A, 8C. 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> -> 5 <- <- 6 -> -> 7 <- <- 8 -> -> The BA123 is identical EXCEPT that slots 1,2 3,4 are all ABCD. If you want the loop diagram for the Ba123, please respond. Which operating system do you use on the PDP-11? If it is RT-11, I would like to keep in touch. I notice that you have not responded to my e-mail of Monday. If there is no further response, I will just assume that you are not very interested in RT-11. For anyone else (Allison??) who is interested in RT-11 software, a response would be appreciated. I think I understand that the hardware is the most important aspect to most of the individuals on this list. I am one of the exceptions in that the software is the most important with the hardware being a close second until a few months ago when it became possible to run PDP-11 programs on a PC, in particular RT-11 programs and the operating system plus all modules. One day I even booted a TU-58 from 1978 with a tape cartridge holding files from a 1978 version of the RT-11 operation system (V3.0B). While the TU-58 was connected to a COM port on the PC which was running an emulator program which allowed the PC to look like a PDP-11 to the TU-58, it was still quite a thrill to be able to boot the 20 year old TU-58 with 20 year old software. Is there anyone else also interested in RT-11 software? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 14:03:38 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 14 Aug 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Here's what is significant about MITS and the Altair 8800: > > It arrived on the scene with a price that firmly fixed in lots of > folks' heads the idea that "I can own a computer." And it was > obviously a useful computer that could be expanded to do real work > just like the real computer in the fishbowl at the office, not > something that could only be appreciated through the lights and > switches on its front panel. Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the elements that got us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is also a strong survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as the machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would be better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) If they are looking for a machine that heavily influenced the virtually extinct hobbiest movement and figured prominently in the corporate history of Microsoft, then they're right on the mark with the Altair 8800. -- Doug From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Aug 14 13:31:03 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is to seriously understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of dominance (which is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the S100) is an incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer field. True, it doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the dominate architecture on teh market. >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the elements that got >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is also a strong >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as the >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would be >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the collectors who wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their systems. I don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do really want a NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the hobbiest movement should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view is that the Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a computer, and so even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about one. (And yes, I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with the Lisa - people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored them in great numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh would have been as successful. First you have the great implementation of a grand concept that you can never own, and then you follow it with an affordable version. Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the potential for personal computers to move into new markets. True, this was a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before the Altair, but the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my opinion, anyway. As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collectors recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could finally get my NeXT. :) Adam. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 14 14:46:42 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13379783649.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Snip this.] I fell very truly sorry for you. In a computer you have such an awesome and powerful device, which can educate you in more than a few ways. Newer equipment to a lesser degree, it's all black-boxes and corporate secrets now, but older gear is perfect for finding out how things work. It's a shame to have such a wonderful machine, and not know anything other than you could sucker someone out of money for it. Not knowing (Or caring!) what you can make a machine that everyone considers dead and gone do. If money were all I cared for, I could empty my PDP-11s out of SSI's basement and get a few $$$, but I'd like to find out how they work and teach myself something long-term than make a few short-term dollars. ------- From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 14 14:46:39 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue References: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <35D4941F.18837785@idirect.com> >Bruce Lane wrote: > I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's > surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will > happily parcel out what I don't need. > > There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some > DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and > sorting. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you for the advance notice. I doubt I would want to pay for the shipping, but if the local company or you were close enough, this might be interesting. Can you please specify where the local company or you (or both) are located - which city? I am in Toronto and anything more than a day (even a very long day) of round trip is likely not worthwhile. My suggestion - even if I am not involved - is to save all the board modules that you can and leave the power supplies and the backplane to the end. In the middle might come hard disk drives (up to 5 1/4") followed by removable packs that might contain any software of interest. Interface kits for serial lines (DLV11-J, DZV11 and DHV11) would also be useful and are relatively small. For very small systems, the DSD-880 boxes are very useful. Most have an 8" floppy beside the 8" hard drive which is 3 * RL02 (non removable of course) and also restricted (from what I remember) for use in a 1/4 MByte memory system unless you are running TSX-PLUS or have a modified RT-11 driver. The used of a DSD 880 in a VT103 was very useful in that there was only 1 dual module for both the hard drive and the floppy which also contained a BOOT ROM. Combine that controller with a dual 11/23, a DLV11-J (4 serial ports), and 1/4 MByte of memory and you had a minimum system. For very little more money (today - not back then), you can substitute an 11/73, 4 MBytes of memory and add a DHV11 for 8 more serial ports. Of course, you would have to rewire the backplane to allow the extra 4 address lines. Allison, would you have any interest in this stuff. Also, Megan! ALSO: TO ANY ONE WHO HAS A PDP-8? A business friend of mine had a requirement for a model with a 50 Hertz power supply for an overseas site. Anyone?? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (sources not always required) From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 15:00:57 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Adam Jenkins wrote: > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collectors > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The PC is now ubiquitous and has had a profound effect on society. So, let's say you're an alien from another planet (I hope I'm not giving away any secrets here), and you see these ubiquitous PCs, and you ask to see their mother. Bob brings you an Altair 8800 from 1975. I bring you an HP 9830A from 1972. You look at the machines, the dates, and you sit down and use them both. And then you vaporize Bob :-) Sure, terminal-based CP/M systems were deployed for several years concurrently with interactive desktop Apple ][ systems, but so were mini-computers and other types of machines. The point is that S-100 and CP/M died because it basically just brought cheap mini-computers to businesses. That wasn't a revolution, that was just a continuation of the dominant paradigm of the 60's and 70's. In my opinion, and in my personal experience, the revolution was due to affordable desktop machines with memory-mapped displays and hardwired keyboards, and the Altair wasn't a big contributor to that mindset. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 15:17:19 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808142017.AA21219@world.std.com> >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was a >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The it that day 10,000 was a lot of systems! < >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which < >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. S100 would be dominent through the mid 80s. S100 system were being built with 80386s and ran faster than the PCs with same. I have a Compupro 8086/8088 10mhz that was faster than any IBM PC hardware in 1982. CP/M left a major mark on MS-dos being the source point! Also the idea of a BIOS is a CP/M concept. < >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as < >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would < >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the < >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) To many slighly older PDP-8 and HPs were the early for runners for the small size and proximate affordability. < money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collecto < recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly < uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You < could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. It's significance was that it was real and well exposed by Popular Electronics. The Mark-8 was less real in that it wasn't available as a complete kit or well presented. There are predecessor machines to both. If we want the first Microcomputer why not the intel MCS-8? You could buy one complete before either Mark-8 or Altair by many years. As to extoling the virtues, altair was in teh right place at the right time. Technically it was a DOG. The IMSAI was a vastly superior machine. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 15:17:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes Message-ID: <199808142017.AA21434@world.std.com> < For anyone else (Allison??) who is interested in RT-11 Been running RT-11 in various flavors since '78. < One day I even booted a TU-58 from 1978 with < a tape cartridge holding files from a 1978 version I still have two systems with the TU58 and real PDP-11 hardware. one is a PDT-11/130 and the other a BA11va shoebox with tu58. < TU-58, it was still quite a thrill to be able to boot < the 20 year old TU-58 with 20 year old software. and a 20 year old system! Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 14 14:11:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980814141144.4af73f9a@intellistar.net> At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >think?) I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 14 14:51:37 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980814145137.2f27aad8@intellistar.net> At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. That's one reason that I think that that auction was a hoax. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). I'll bet that for $60,500 (5 x $12,100), you'd give it some serious thought! Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 15:55:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814155528.00c806e0@pc> Has anyone confirmed with Laura Lemay that she actually paid or intends to pay $12,000 for an Altair, or could this be a hoax perpetrated on her? I sent an e-mail asking for a confirmation, and have heard nothing... This all comes back to my inherent skepticism about online auctions as a useful method of determining "street price." Where's a mechanism for confirmation of the selling price? How can we detect shills? - John From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 14 16:15:02 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C541@NT486> Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. Jack Peacock From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 16:42:12 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814144212.00e579a0@mail.jps.net> At 11:06 14-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Bruce, > > >Can you tell us where the rescued items will be located? I wouldn't >mind scrounging some 11/23 bits and pieces if they become available. >My 11/23 is diskless (and rackless! pout) right now. I'll be picking up an entire lot from Fluke. They need to get rid of everything all at once, which is why I said there's more than I need. What I'll be doing is bringing the stuff back to Kent and then parceling it out. I'm certain I can come up with at least minimal disk capability (want a DSD-880?) for your 11/23. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Aug 14 17:26:06 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814144212.00e579a0@mail.jps.net> References: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814152606.007ddcd0@vader.kootenay.net> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it looks like the size of a mini stereo jack From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 17:28:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980814141144.4af73f9a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you > >think?) > > I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the > opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's > insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of them on the market. Or someone may just be that stupid. Two theories. Take your pick. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 17:30:34 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C541@NT486> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few > "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, > $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. I don't love my IMSAI's THAT much. This is worth a shot. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 14 17:50:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Anyone know of a decent free BASIC for Unixes? Message-ID: <13379817184.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have bwbasic 2.20, but it leaks memory horribly. This is Digital UNIX, so I can't use Chipmunk. I found another BASIC for Unixes, but it only works on m68000 Unixes, PDP-11s, Pyramids, and VAXen. IS there any other decent BASIC interpreters out there for UNIXes? ------- From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 15 17:55:37 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Power supply NEEDED Message-ID: <199808142301.TAA23378@gate.usaor.net> Hello again, everyone. I'm looking for a power supply for a WANG WLTC laptop. It doesn't necessarily need to be a WANG power supply. Just as long as it's 18V DC, and at least 2 Amps. I'm also looking for manuals for the WANG WLTC: - Installation instructions - Fundamentals Guide - DOS Command Processor Guide - Troubleshooting Guide - Printer Software Administration Guide - BASIC Language Guide Again, they don't need to be originals. They can be copies. As always, ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 12:49:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 13, 98 06:35:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1835 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/7cdf9b5f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 13:29:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 13, 98 11:19:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/c44501a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 13:42:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 13, 98 11:39:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2435 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/b68d33d3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 14:41:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 14, 98 03:31:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/8176b3c5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 14:58:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808140829.BAA01836@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 14, 98 01:29:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/16858342/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Aug 14 20:07:23 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 EX in El Paso Message-ID: <19980814184149.3ab71d3c.in@mail.pressstart.com> I'm just forwarding this mail I received. Please respond directly to them. >We have a Tandy 1000EX computer that was given to us >about four years ago and was a great word processor, >game player, etc. at the time. Since then we have >upgraded slightly to a Pentium, 64 M of RAM, etc. >We have no more need for the Tandy, and would like to >know if there is any one that has a hankering for relics, >like your museum or just a personal collector. We have >the printer, complete computer with monitor, and user's >manuals. We also have some software for it. > We would certainly appreciate any help you may be able >to give us in selling the Tandy. We live in El Paso, TX, >and would respond to any inquiries about it. Thank you. >James and Michelle Herrick >jandmherrick@prodigy.net ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 20:32:45 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4E53D.991E1AE4@cnct.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > > > It is likely that I am the only person on this > > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > > dealer. > > I have no problem with this. The more diverse this list, the better. I > am aware of others who are also on the list that share the profit motive, > so I believe you're not alone. Never knock the profit motive. It's the main reason that most of our systems were manufactured -- admittedly Woz was just trying to build himself a computer as cheap as he could, Jobs was in it for the money. And of course Tandy was strictly for profit -- as a stockholder I understood (having acquired stock as an employee), though I left when they went 100% PC compatible, not wanting to lower my standards -- an obvious bad career choice. I can trust the motives of a man out to make a buck, but somebody who wants "to make the world a better place" I'll keep at arm's length -- Hitler and Stalin had that objective each from their own definition of "better". Idealists are much better at destroying the world than mere wimpy Capitalists. Other than that, within a few weeks I hope to have finally installed a Color Computer 3 and Multi-Pak and HD and floppy controller into the gutted shell of an old Compaq "portable" abandoned this last TCF. The display interface is the hard part, since I haven't found a color tube that fits, and the original tube really doesn't gray-scale well and is on its last legs anyway. (The 8088 motherboard is a wall decoration -- they were too popular to keep for "uniqueness" sake or "collection value"). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Fri Aug 14 20:35:07 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 Message-ID: <199808150135.DAA21312@IAEhv.nl> On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said: cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came cl>with a PCjr? PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. "In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0] and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr." Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5, Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was the latest version when the book was printed. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 20:42:40 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35D4E790.D83C24E6@cnct.com> Adam Jenkins wrote: > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is to seriously > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of dominance (which > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the S100) is an > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer field. True, it > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > dominate architecture on teh market. Do recall that QDOS was a straightforward CP/M clone and that MS-DOS to at least version 3.0 _documented_ the CP/M compatible system calls in the OS they'd bought. CP/M didn't fizzle. When you use a DOS interface under NT, the command switch character is that which MS-DOS took from CP/M and Kildall took from DEC. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 20:55:11 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D4EA7F.59B2F8E5@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > It is likely that I am the only person on this > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric > lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples > will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first > light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing > the birth of that. My sentiments exactly! I have long believed that collecting computers will become as much respected as any other type of collecting, and *that*, by its very nature, implies higher prices are on the way. To me, saving the systems from that great dumpster in the sky is important. We have a great advantage right now in that many of the pioneers are still alive to be able to relate their thoughts and experiences ... during the process where these things are beginning to gain in value. As far this listserver is concerned (I hope you talked about your being asked to leave with tongue in cheek!), this has been one of the most informed and well rounded group of people I have been associated with. To date, I have not found a better resource for information about our "addictions"! From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:00:39 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4EBC7.C6F5969C@rain.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > > > I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the > > 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the > > start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough > numbers I don't recall ever hearing what the production numbers were for the various models of the Altair. Anyone know for sure? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:40:00 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Anyone know of a decent free BASIC for Unixes? In-Reply-To: <13379817184.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 14, 98 03:50:55 pm Message-ID: <199808142340.QAA12722@fraser.sfu.ca> I suggest that you check out the UGU site, www.ugu.com. "Unix Guru Universe". Kevin > > I have bwbasic 2.20, but it leaks memory horribly. This is > Digital UNIX, so I can't use Chipmunk. I found another BASIC for Unixes, > but it only works on m68000 Unixes, PDP-11s, Pyramids, and VAXen. > IS there any other decent BASIC interpreters out there for UNIXes? > ------- > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:38:55 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980814152606.007ddcd0@vader.kootenay.net> from "Chris Halarewich" at Aug 14, 98 03:26:06 pm Message-ID: <199808142338.QAA12516@fraser.sfu.ca> You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of modem?? Kevin > > I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a > packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't > say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the > power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it > looks like the size of a mini stereo jack > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:30:03 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 14, 98 06:49:31 pm Message-ID: <199808142330.QAA11035@fraser.sfu.ca> > > That concerns me, as I'd rather not burn up a PDP-8/L (or the house). > > What can I do to ensure the -8/L wont catch fire (or do anything else > > equally bad) when I turn it on? I don't have a very good knowledge of > > The standard drill - check the PSU on dummy load - certainly applies > here. Alas I don't know the PDP8/L (I have an 8/e and an 8/a), but I > guess if you either pull all the boards or unplug the backplane power > cables from the PSU, you can power up the PSU on its own and check the > output voltages with a meter. There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help in checking out the supply. The H747 supply was used on the 8/e, the H740 on the 8/f, I'm not sure about the 8/l however. It may be one of these supplies. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 21:07:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4E790.D83C24E6@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Do recall that QDOS was a straightforward CP/M clone and that MS-DOS > to at least version 3.0 _documented_ the CP/M compatible system calls > in the OS they'd bought. CP/M didn't fizzle. I remember the CP/M compatible system calls, but I don't remember any software that used them (perhaps early WordStar?). The thing that allowed the PC to take off was software that consistently bypassed both DOS and the BIOS. That's why every system after the PC had to be PC-compatible, not just MS-DOS compatible, and certainly not CP/M compatible. > When you use a DOS interface under NT, the command switch character is > that which MS-DOS took from CP/M and Kildall took from DEC. To this day, I still suffer from the choice of '/' as a command switch, '\' as a directory separator, and CR/LF as a line terminator. Luckily, ^Z stopped being a problem when new DOS system calls were introduced (IIRC). -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:12:55 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D4EEA7.4F5B36C4@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > gets hot. Actually, I was troubleshooting the 6800 based > MPU boards on Bally pinball machines as early as the late > 70's. Just never had any interests in computers per se. I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball machines/video games (coin ops)? My first pinball machine was acquired in the early 70's just after Atari Pong and Tank made such a splash. As a hobby, I ended up repairing games for a couple friends of mine who had arcades and games out on location. As an extension to that hobby, I had at one time somewhere around 45 arcade games in my garage, back porch, shop, and almost anywhere else I could put them :). No, I did not put them out to make money with, but rather kept them around for the fun of playing and repairing them. Shame I didn't have the foresight to keep a few that already are starting to become collectors items (Pong, Space Wars, BioRhythm, etc.) From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:20:49 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > I am, alas, convinced that high prices have ruined several other > hobbies > (old radios, particularly) that I was once interested in. No flames > for > the people who sell at those prices - that's just good business. But > it's > a pity that I have to look at old radio schematics only, and not the > actual sets in a lot of cases. There have been several comments so far about higher prices reducing the availability of older computers/radios/etc. As a point of discussion, what can be done about it? If the intent is to work on and find out how things work, I don't see *any* difference between an existing older machine, and a new one built from existing schematics. Yes, I do realize that some of the electronics are unavailable easily anymore. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Aug 14 21:34:42 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 14, 98 10:21:01 am Message-ID: <199808150234.WAA11418@shell.monmouth.com> > > I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's > surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will > happily parcel out what I don't need. > > There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some > DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and > sorting. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > Please keep me in mind... I'm looking for parts to complete vt103 with disk, memory, serial ports and disk controller. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 21:39:49 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices References: Message-ID: <35D4F4F5.93974166@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > > > At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > > > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you > > >think?) > > > > I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the > > opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's > > insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! > > Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise > the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of > them on the market. > > Or someone may just be that stupid. > > Two theories. Take your pick. As the old saying goes, never attribute to malice that which may be adequately explained by stupidity. (Unless the government is involved -- malicious stupidity at its best). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 21:47:57 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <19980815024758.28153.qmail@hotmail.com> >> >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 >> > >> >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >> >think?) >> >> I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the >> opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's >> insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! > >Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise >the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of >them on the market. > >Or someone may just be that stupid. > >Two theories. Take your pick. Before this wild speculation goes any further let me try to sets your minds somewhat at ease. As you would expect it was my natural reflex to offer a computer to the 2nd bidder. I have now had several back and forth emails with him. He is, like yourselves, an avid classic computer collector with 500 pieces including An Apple 1. He has Altairs but not the original 8800. Hi explanation for the wide difference in his bids on the two auctions is that he put great value on the additional boards (the S-100 Hayes modem, a rare CPU, the video cards, etc. etc. etc.) He is willing to pay no more for the straight computer than his bid on Willing's auction. Now I know that most will not agree with his assessment but that is not the point. The point is that he is indeed a legitimate participant I cannot, however, get into the mind of the woman who entered the high bid. After having listed several hundred Ebay items I can guess though. In a word - impulsiveness. I have seen it time and again with my own auctions. In my experience about 15% of my high bidders renig. When I then offer the items to my 2nd bidders they will choose not to accept about 95% of the time. This is nothing new to online auctions (excepting that it is harder to renig in a live auction). Auction bidding is done impulsively and when given an opportunity to change their minds most bidders will choose to do so. So for whatever appeal the Altair has to her she probably got caught up in the last minute frenzy and may have plenty of money to be able to do so with no pain whatsoever. Or, who knows, maybe she was buying it for someone else. There is no way to know unless she chooses to tell us. Maybe someone has been in contact with her and will tell us. Of course there is always the possibility that she was a shill. However, it is highly unlikely, given how the auction ended. Keep in mind that there was no offical transaction here. With the reserve not met no one was committed to buy anything. Much more interesting to me, than the bidders in this auction, was the seller. What must he have been thinking to come up with such a laughably unrealsitic reserve (and we don't know how laughable because we don't know how high it was). I thought I had seen just about every abberation Ebay could offer but I cannot get into his head at all. The bottom line is that this auction in no way contributes to our trying to get a handle on how others now value an Altair. Willing's outcome, however, is a more valid indicator of that. But any auction price is only a contributing factor and should be taken only that way. To answer your other question, Sam, sure I would be glad to reveal how I bought the MITS stuff. But all it would serve to do is piss off others because it is something that every single reader of this list could just as easily have done. Frankly, I remained amazed for the year and a half I had it to myself, that no one figured it out. But if I lay it out I will again be chastised. I will be told that it is materialistic and irrelevant because all that matters is tinkering with the computers. Are you sure you want to hear all that again? Bob > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 21:58:33 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808142330.QAA11035@fraser.sfu.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814195833.006ea5c8@ferrari.sfu.ca> At 04:30 PM 98/08/14 -0700, you wrote: >There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at >http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help >in checking out the supply. The correct URL is http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. The root URL is a searchable database on the Northridge California earthquake from January 1994. Not of much relevance to our hobby... Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 22:24:11 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980814232245.006ae1f8@netpath.net> Over 90% of the external modems I have dealt with were 9vdc, 500ma, but there is always an exception, and in this case, that is probably the case. At 04:38 PM 8/14/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: >You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of >modem?? > >Kevin > >> >> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a >> packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't >> say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the >> power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it >> looks like the size of a mini stereo jack >> >> > > >-- >Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD >mcquiggi@sfu.ca > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 14 22:55:28 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: Macintosh Portable In-Reply-To: <199808080448.AAA14176@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814225528.006a7908@pop3.concentric.net> A Mac SE or SE/30 would be better for you as the batteries in the portable would give great pain. A working MAC SE should cost you from $5 to $40 and takes up very little space. If you want one let me know by private e-mail. At 12:44 AM 5/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hello everybody. > >I was wondering if anyone out there had an old Mac Portable (the Mac >laptop) that they'd want to sell. I really don't want to pay all that much >for it, and I don't need anything all that fast (I don't know all that much >about Macs), but it needs to run at least System 6.0.5. The main reason >that I'm looking for one, is that my school uses mainly Macs (the only PC's >that they have are a few XT's that you need to turn off the lights to read >the monitors), and I don't have a Mac. Whenever I'm working on a project, >I'm confined to the 40 minutes of classtime to get it done. I'm not >looking for a full-sized Mac, because (1) I don't have the room, and (2), I >sort of need the portability, because It's not very often that I'm at home >before 8:30 or 9:00 PM, and at that time I don't really feel like working >on stuff for school. > >All I'm really asking is that it works, and can run System 6.0.5 (that's >what my school uses). > >As always, >ThAnX in advance, >-- > -Jason >(roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Aug 14 23:11:22 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35eb02b0.1557148571@insight> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:19:43 PDT, you wrote: >My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is >another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able If anybody who feels like I do about some of these old systems found out he was pimping Altairs to someone who sees them only at dollar signs, he's probably at the bottom of a river, with a couple of Packard-Bells chained to his ankles... If you want to start a frenzy over the latest "beanie baby" that was "accidentally" made with three eyes and sucker a bunch of losers, be my guest. It just seems a little mercenary to me for someone to be contributing to the obscene inflation of the price of something that should belong to people who respect it as other than a "collectors item". Now I'm sure this sounds like sour grapes, and maybe to a degree it is, but I feel like the first light bulbs (to use your example) should belong to the family, friends, contemporaries, and kindred spirits of the person responsible for them, and not necessarily to the highest bidder. I've had many discussions with my partner as to the ethics of buying and selling "old" computers. I've never been the sort who gets a good feeling out of "suckering" someone into paying too much for something, or selling it to me for way too little. (Guess that's why I'm not in sales, or the stock market...) I know this sort of discussion took place someplace not long ago - I think it was in the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup, about old (but still valuable) equipment. If I find a little old lady who has an Altair on her garage sale that was built by her late husband, and it's marked $5, now I have a quandary. Do I a) give her $5, grab the Altair and run, b) tell her "Well shucks, ma'am - you can get $2,000 for that on eBay!", then offer her $200 and hope she appreciates my honesty and sells it to me for that, or c) slam my thumb in a door because it will feel better than a or b? On the other hand, if I find one sitting in an "antique" shop marked "$500", with an owner who is sure it's "valuable" and won't budge on the price, do I a) slam down the $500, grab the computer, and run, later mailing them a copy of the latest eBay auction where an Altair went for $12,000, with a big "smiley" drawn next to it in crayon, b) refuse to deal with the vulture on general principles, or c) tell the little old lady from the garage sale that he has a "thing" for little old ladies, and he loves to be dominated? (*sigh) Well, if I can't have an Altair for something approaching a sane price, maybe a Sol-20. I lost my virginity to a Sol-20... >But the personal computer is now as important as the electric >lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples >will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first >light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing >the birth of that. Nah. The intelligence of most people being what it is these days, they would have just found them in the attic, discovered that they wouldn't screw into their reading lamp, and chucked them in the trash (or given them away to people who knew what they were!) Unless, of course, someone started paying lots of money for them; then, suddenly, they wouldn't *think* of parting with them (for less than $2,000)! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From desieh at southcom.com.au Fri Aug 14 23:09:25 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <000001bdc802$7dc51640$c5173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 4:39 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > At 23:19 13-08-98 PDT, you wrote: > > >It is likely that I am the only person on this > >list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > >dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until > > > > I can only speak for myself, not the list. > > I'm truly sorry that you seem to have no interest in actually doing > something with the equipment you buy. I firmly believe that it is > your loss > that you likely don't know one end of a soldering iron or wire-wrap tool > from the other. > > I'm equally sorry that your only interest in the gear seems > to be how much > it can bring in, income-wise. Those who buy Altairs, or whatever other > "collectible" machine you happen to be selling, at the prices you're > asking, are the real "suckers" in this field. > > This list, to me, is about what one can do with older > computer hardware > BESIDES sell it. Specifically, about finding ways to make it useful and to > educate others about the rich history of the field. While this may include > mention of the machine's financial value, I've never believed that money > should be the primary focus of 'classic' computing as a hobby. > > What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the > list, it will > not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope that you choose > to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where computer hardware is > concerned. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing > in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > Well I thought that I should chuck my 2 cents in on this interesting topic. I personall think that good luke to you mate. If you can make this money buy selling these computers good luck to you and it seems to have paid off. *Desie* From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 15 00:20:27 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4EEA7.4F5B36C4@rain.org> References: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814222027.03682e50@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:12 PM 8/14/98 -0700, MArvin wrote: >I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball >machines/video games (coin ops)? Guilty! Still do!! (witness the core equipped 'Juke on my web page!!!) One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or less, all 'pong' styled) games. Quite radical for the time... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 15 01:19:15 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball >>machines/video games (coin ops)? > >Guilty! Still do!! > >One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone >outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a >video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or less, >all 'pong' styled) games. > >Quite radical for the time... > >-jim Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game collecting hobby is about as close as it can get to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby. It started at roughly the same time and has a very active and fast growing newsgroup . And, as I'm sure you know, all of the innovations and developments put into the coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc. And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price increases just as is happening to computer collecting. Interestingly, though, while game collecting and computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 15 02:56:27 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D53F2B.DA8DEFA2@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > Interestingly, though, while game collecting and > computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware > of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't > know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their > newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. At one time, I could have been considered a serious collector, but the *real* problem became one of space. I was in contact with a number of collectors, and ended up pretty much giving them away since they would go to someone who would both appreciate them, and maintain them. BUT, I still have the documentation for at least a hundred games or so. Also, it takes considerably more time to shop out a pin than a computer! From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 15 03:23:06 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question References: <3.0.32.19980814232245.006ae1f8@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35D5456A.FA687B14@cnct.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > > Over 90% of the external modems I have dealt with were 9vdc, 500ma, but > there is always an exception, and in this case, that is probably the case. Odd. An awful lot of the external modems I've dealt with were 12-24 VAC power supplies. Just about anything by Tandy comes to mind from the bad old days when 1200 bps was considered "fast", but I'm pretty sure the unit I'm presently using (I can't see the power brick from here and I hate unplugging a modem while I'm on-line -- with my ISP there's a 20% chance of a connection in any attempt -- had I mentioned lately a desire to change ISPs?) is getting AC to the unit at a reduced voltage. > > At 04:38 PM 8/14/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > >You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of > >modem?? > > > >Kevin > > > >> > >> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a > >> packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't > >> say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the > >> power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it > >> looks like the size of a mini stereo jack -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 04:22:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > >> The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I > >> hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a > >> source for confusion. > >> It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is > >> ready. > > that sounds right to me, too :) But at least it's changing state - I > guess I'd expect it to carry on blinking if there was a fault. (Out of > interest, how long was it blinking for? Seem to remember it used to be > somewhere around 30-40 seconds on my drives) IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the blinking time is shorter. > >> I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have > >> to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into > >> slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, > >> so I guess one is dead. > > Interesting. My problem was probably that more than one card couldn't be > configured at once then (maybe I should get hold of a copy of prodos > from somewhere and that'll sort things out? I can't imagine the firm > that originally used this machine swapping drives around all the time!) Nor can I. My machine came with the two Profile controllers installed. > >> Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin > >> cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer > >> than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have > >> different wiring? > > well, I remember the cable didn't have any twists in it - ie. it was > either a full crossover or straight-through. One of my cables is > original, and it's no more than a foot long. Chances are these things > would suffer from interference - try a shorter cable and see if it > helps. I actually DO have a two-foot ribbon cable with the appropriate connectors, surprisingly enough. Looks like time to experiment with that one. :) Can't do it now, though, as it's set up in the hallway in front of my parents' bedroom, and it's rather loud. (It's 5:22am in this time zone as I type this.) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 04:53:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. > > ^^^^ > > Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) > > That may be (I've never seen it). However, I've heard that the file data > structures are exactly the same between SOS and ProDOS. (That is, the format > of directories, volumes, etc. are compatible). ProDOS does have definitions > for many more of the 256 (255?) allowable file types -- SOS defined fewer. I don't know about the file types, but I believe you are correct about filesystem structure. However, I don't run ProDOS on any of my other systems. I had an Apple ][+ clone in my early teens and I used DOS 3.3, and never had a reason to use anything else. I never even ran across a ProDOS disk the whole time I was an Apple user. > So be a little thankful. :) Perhaps the SOS/ProDOS similarity will become useful in future, yes. In fact, that's what makes xferring the disk images I've got, to the III, even possible. If I couldn't use a II to reconstruct the disks for the III, I'd be completely stuck. > > Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly > > bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, > > which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal > > because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ > > Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. > Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. > Put side 1 in drive 1 and side 2 in drive 2. Then you should be able to use > the menu system, editor, and the compiler. (Of course, you may be missing one > or more of those sides.) I guess I'm missing two of those sides, but I'm also missing the second drive. It seems to need a disk in .D2 specifically, but I don't *have* a .D2. (With SOS, disk labels start with "/", and device names start with ".".) [re: disk image source] > Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or > somewhere else? Somewhere else. I know how freaked-out Apple users can get about piracy (I used to read comp.sys.apple2) so I'm not naming my source lest s/he gets lynched or mailbombed. > > Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these > > disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then > > I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the > > files directly to disk on my Amiga. > > Shrinkit is an archive program (like PKZIP, gzip, etc.) though it does have > a special mode for compressing entire disks. I think it uses a file format > called NuFX and there is supposedly a compatible C library for UNIX (nfxllib? > nfxtools? something like that). The C library might be interesting. What I really want to know is how it *works*, not how to use it or what it does. I want to be able to write a deShrinkIt program for my Amiga that takes ShrinkIt files and builds valid .dsk images. Currently the only xfer software I have for the Apple ][ only deals in .dsk images. I wrote the software myself in '93 or '94, in order to preserve my Apple ][ software collection from bit rot. It was especially cool later on when I found an Apple emulator that used the same file format and even the same ".dsk" extension, because I already had a large library of disks on file. :) Now I've got an A1020 drive for my Amiga, though, and I was planning on writing a .dsk writer this summer, but I accidentally wound up employed and didn't have the time to do it. I should probably just get in touch with the guy that wrote the Apple disk READer and ask him to make it WRITE as well, though. :) > You know, I just happen to have a disk with Shrinkit on one side and ProTERM > on the other. Perhaps it would save you a lot of time if I sent it to you? > (I have another copy of the same disk, so I can spare a copy. Though it's > been a LONG time since I booted it up, so I don't know what shape it's in.) Thanks for the offer, but that is uneccessary. I can't yet use ProTERM, and ShrinkIt is available on the 'net. I did manage to get it onto a ProDOS disk, but that corrupted on me, so I'll have to do it again. I've still got Apple III disk images on Apple DOS 3.3 disks, though, so some of the transfer work is already done. > -- Derek > dpeschel@u.washington.edu Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From red at bears.org Sat Aug 15 06:44:11 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it > goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the > blinking time is shorter. On powering up the ProFile disk: "The red ready light on the ProFile's front panel will come on for about 2 seconds, go off for about 20 seconds, and then start to flash for about 40 seconds while the drive runs internal tests. When the tests are successfully completed, the light will remain on continuously without flashing. Under some conditions the ProFile may take up to 3 minutes to complete the startup sequence." ok r. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Aug 15 06:47:35 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 Message-ID: <6d8cb36a.35d57558@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-14 21:36:00 EDT, Kees put forth: << PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. >> I dont understand the issue about the floppy drive "slowed down" AFAIK, its just a regular old 360k drive. I think it may be the same drive as what's on the 5155 machine. It probably has more to do with the lack of DMA on the pcjr rather than anything else. david From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Aug 15 07:03:40 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <000601bdc844$be6d3000$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> This has been roughly my experience. I have one poor thing that takes about 5 minutes, hey, it is after all, 20 years old. :) My light never goes out that I remember though, but it does blink in faster increments up to the point it stays steady. I have two apple ///'s with profiles that are currently operational, allthough one comes up much faster than the other. I think it waits for the drive to "come up to speed" Bill -----Original Message----- From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Apple III & Profile >On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > >> IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it >> goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the >> blinking time is shorter. > >On powering up the ProFile disk: > >"The red ready light on the ProFile's front panel will come on for about 2 >seconds, go off for about 20 seconds, and then start to flash for about 40 >seconds while the drive runs internal tests. When the tests are >successfully completed, the light will remain on continuously without >flashing. Under some conditions the ProFile may take up to 3 minutes to >complete the startup sequence." > >ok >r. From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 08:29:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808151329.AA07413@world.std.com> >That's why the Altair affair is so disturbing for lots of us. >We've suddenly and quite violently been told that some of the more >interesting and curious junk is now off limits, unless you have a >fairly fat wallet. It's very hard to get used to, and it makes me, >at least, very uncomfortable. Well said... I agree entirely. It makes me really sad and somewhat angry to think that some of this stuff can now only be bought by people with deep pockets -- people who probably don't have any contact with the computer field other than possibly using a PC... people who will probably just have the thing on display, never used, or people who's only interest is waiting for the price to climb yet again so they can make their money back. They essentially closes the door on the hobbyists, without whom the home PC might never have existed. I remember working on helping to build, and then later program one of these machines when I was in college (1974-1978)... I've always wanted to get one for the sake of memories, but that'll never happen now... No, I don't want to see you kicked off the list either, but I can't say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they are about latest acquisitions/sales... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Aug 15 08:41:39 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980815094139.0068dc54@mail.wincom.net> At 10:53 AM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > >colan My NEC APC uses MSDOS 2.11, on an 8" floppy. Regards Charlie Fox > > > > From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 08:50:00 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808151350.AA27404@world.std.com> >Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise >the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of >them on the market. > >Or someone may just be that stupid. > >Two theories. Take your pick. What's the old saying? "Never attribute to malice what should be attributed to stupidity?" (Or something like that) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Aug 15 09:09:21 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: adds to collection Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980815090921.006ab868@pop3.concentric.net> Well I still have alot to sort out but here is a short list of finds for this week: 1) Beckman model 999 IC tester have not powered it up yet 2) Two Radius MacII Page Display cards 3) About 30+ different books, spec sheets, and manual 4) 28 game cartridges for the Vic20 5) 4 2600 game cartridges 6) 2 C64 cartridges 7) Various Apple II cards 8) A clone Numeric keypad for the Apple II 9) 2 Vic20 power supplies not tested 10) 1 Plus/4 power supply not tested 11) HES Mon mini assember for use with Vic20 in box with manual 12) Cardram 16k memory expansion cartridge for thr Vic20 13) Radio Shack and other brand computer cassette tapes - new That's all I can list for now as I still have a van loaded with boxes and about 6 boxes of items to sort in the garage. I will update later with anything of importance. Keep Computing!! John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 15 10:50:32 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > [re: disk image source] > > Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or > > somewhere else? > > Somewhere else. I know how freaked-out Apple users can get about piracy > (I used to read comp.sys.apple2) so I'm not naming my source lest s/he > gets lynched or mailbombed. Oh, sheesh! I'm the source. I'm not afraid to let everyone know that I have the Apple /// images available to anyone who wants them. The comp.sys.apple2 anti-piracy retards basically have no lives outside of that newsgroup and thus use the Flamewar of Evermore to bring some pathetic sense of purpose to their extistence. I seriously doubt anyone of consequence will get their panties up in a bunch for handing the images out. If anyone needs the disk images, just ask. > The C library might be interesting. What I really want to know is how it > *works*, not how to use it or what it does. I want to be able to write a > deShrinkIt program for my Amiga that takes ShrinkIt files and builds valid > .dsk images. If you're lucky you should be able to track down the program's author (forget the last name but his first is Andy and his name appears on the program). He's still around so you should be able to either do a web search on his name or ask the question on comp.sys.apple2 and someone will most likely respond if they're not busy flaming somebody for uploading Hunt the Wumpus to a public file area. > Thanks for the offer, but that is uneccessary. I can't yet use ProTERM, > and ShrinkIt is available on the 'net. I did manage to get it onto a > ProDOS disk, but that corrupted on me, so I'll have to do it again. I've > still got Apple III disk images on Apple DOS 3.3 disks, though, so some of > the transfer work is already done. The disk format is the same for DOS 3.3 and SOS and even ProDOS and Apple Pascal. Its the filesystem that differs. You can read the data off of a disk with one OS from any of the other OSes. So you can copy a SOS disk with a DOS 3.3 copy program. With the images I gave you, you simply need to unshrink them using ShrinkIt on your ][+. The disks will then be good to go on your Apple ///. Let me know if you're still having problems and I'll work you through it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 15 11:11:31 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> but I can't >say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they are >about latest acquisitions/sales... > > Megan Gentry > >Not a problem Megan. As I said in the first post I anticipated exactly your reaction. I have been reading the list for months and I realize what it is intended for and what it means to y'all (excuse that, I am a Southern boy). I have never had any intention to become a regular contributor because I really am not capable of any type of contribution that the list was intended for. The only reason that I spewed forth with it this time is that I was bursting to tell someone and if I told anyone else but you guys they wouldn't even know what the hell an Altair was. There will be no more acqusitions to tell about. I stumbled onto a way to get them and now it is all over with. So unless somewhere they are building some more used Altairs that is it for me. Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people who have pointed out that I have missed out on something by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette. Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside these computers I may never be able to see it play. So I am not the enemy believe me. I truly respect all of you folks for the abilities you have. And I want to chime in here and fully agree with a post from yesterday which stated that of all of the places on the Internet which I have ever visited this one, hands down, has the most thoughtful people of any I have ever encountered. I hope you can keep your hobby as pure as you want it to be. I would never want to do anything to interfere with that. Thanks for listening to my ramblings and, who knows, maybe someday I will be lucky enough to actually meet some of you at the Computer Festival. I hope so. Regards, Your friend and supporter. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Aug 15 08:59:24 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808150135.DAA21312@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <199808151802.OAA10758@smtp.interlog.com> On 15 Aug 98 at 3:35, Kees Stravers wrote: > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said: > cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not > cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came > cl>with a PCjr? > > PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive > access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was > so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was > the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were > versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. > > "In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS > version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0] > and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr." > > Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5, > Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very > detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and > tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a > long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was > the latest version when the book was printed. > > Kees > I just saw a manual for DOS2.11 in a local thrift but wound up leaving it behind by accident. I hope it's still there when I go back. It was labelled for Toshiba. I have the 2nd edition of "DOS Power Tools" ISBN 0-553-35464-7 . It covers DOS up to ver.5.0 . 3disks and some newer utilities. Quite a good book. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Aug 15 13:30:25 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns - NOT! References: <199808140702.AAA25036@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D5D3C1.9A13122F@goldrush.com> > From: "kroma" > Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? > > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.html I don't think ZDNet will post my comments, as mine started with: Piracy YES. Commodore 64 NOT! This computer is a lame attempt of a failing PC clone manufacturer to monopolize on the nostalgia of users and an internet fiasco. I summed up how not a 64 it was given it has NO 64 interfaces (save for the keyboard) so you cannot hook any 64 peripherals on it (joysticks, light pens, REUs, not even 1541 disk drives). And it was merely an encouragement for owners to download pirated commercial Commodore-64 disk images off of the internet. Also I added: it may run 64 software, but in no way will it give the owner the reassurance or feeling that they actually 'own' a Commodore 64. --- I think this company is gonna have legal problems from places such as Broderbund and Eletronic Arts (or more likely CMD, who has alot of ownership of 64 licenses) if they actually do sell some of em... -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 14:58:56 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Pack Question Message-ID: OK, I just had my "Big Haul" delivered (you've got to love people that want to get rid of stuff so bad that they deliver it to you). I'll have more on this later. At the moment, I've got a question about packs. Are "NASHUA 4443" Packs RL01 packs? Also is there a way to tell RL01 and RL02 packs that aren't DEC packs apart? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 15 16:04:25 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball > >>machines/video games (coin ops)? > > > >Guilty! Still do!! > > > >One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone > >outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a > >video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or > less, > >all 'pong' styled) games. > > > >Quite radical for the time... > > > >-jim > > > Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game > collecting hobby is about as close as it can get > to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby. > It started at roughly the same time and has a very active > and fast growing newsgroup . > > And, as I'm sure you know, > all of the innovations and developments put into the > coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for > computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting > interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer > industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc. > And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted > a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price > increases just as is happening to computer collecting. > > Interestingly, though, while game collecting and > computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware > of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their > newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. > > > Bob Wood Probably, lack of storage space :) - don From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Aug 15 16:14:38 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI drive Message-ID: <01bdc891$b639db20$3828a2ce@laptop> I have just received a ZEOS 486-66 motherboard, which has a SCSI connector. Anyone have a 3-400 MB SCSI drive laying about? Thanks manney@lrbcg.com From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Aug 15 14:58:53 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: <199806262214.AAA27990@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: Finally got around to looking inside the MicroVax II I acquired. It's in the short squat rolling enclosure (BA123?) and has the following boards M7606-AA KA630-AA Q microVAX II with 1-Mbyte, floating point, time of year clock, boot/diagnostic ROM (Q22-bus) (Also M7606-AC, -AF, -AH, -AL, -AP, -AS Also M7606-EC, -EE, -EF, -EP, -ES, -ET, -EU, -EV Also M7606-ZC, -ZF, -ZP, -ZS) M7608-BA MS630-BB Q 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) (Also M7608-BC, -BE, -BH, -BL, -BP, -BR, -BS, -BT, -BU, -BV, -YC, -YF, -YS, -ZC, -ZF, -ZS) M7608-BA MS630-BB Q 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) (Also M7608-BC, -BE, -BH, -BL, -BP, -BR, -BS, -BT, -BU, -BV, -YC, -YF, -YS, -ZC, -ZF, -ZS) M7196 TSV05 Q TSV05 controller for Q/Q22 bus M3107 DHQ11-M Q 8-line async MUX module, DMA, Q-22 M3107 DHQ11-M Q 8-line async MUX module, DMA, Q-22 M7546 TQK50-AA Q TMSCP controller for TK50 tape unit M7555 RQDX3 Q Winchester and floppy disk controller (RX50/RD50-54/RD31/RD32) It has a drive apparently loaded with some version of VMS but I have to put together a console cable to find out. Then of course, the big trick will be the fact that I don't have VMS on tape or the passwords to the machine itself. :( And I can't call the company that gave it to me because several layers of red-tape were bypassed to get it to me for free. Hmmm...a friend of mine says I should find a variant of Unix for it but I used to be big into VAXen (at least on the user end) and having a VMS machine amuses me. Thoughts? Suggestions? Anthony Clifton - WireHead From rexstout at uswest.net Fri Aug 14 21:41:13 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? Message-ID: What is a Burroughs TD-700 display? Picked up two of them in pretty bad shape, unknown if working or not(and don't know how to test), for free. What are they, what do they do, how do they do it, etc... Lucky me, I got a big book with the schematics! Kinda useless if you don't know what they hook up to, though. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From hansp at digiweb.com Sat Aug 15 17:00:22 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? References: Message-ID: <35D604F6.B89CCF88@digiweb.com> Burroughs TDs were Terminal Displays. They used proprietary multidrop protocols to communicate with the mainframe. The TD-700 were flat panel displays IIRC, using the Burroughs self-scan plasma panel. Don't know how you can test them without bringing up a poll-select multi-drop communications line. I used to write those protocols in my sleep but can't recall any details. The TD-800 were CRT based terminals some based on 6800 micros others on 8086 (yes indeed) Burroughs claimed that they were the first to use the 8086 processor and helped Intel debug it. When the IBM PC came out Burroughs were using substantially more powerful hardware just as dumb terminals. I worked on a sort of skunk works project to interface a hard disk to one of the terminals and install CPM-86 on it. Fun at the time... Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Aug 15 17:01:19 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: References: <199806262214.AAA27990@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980815150119.00751b20@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi: If you don't know the password to the system account under VMS, this isn't much of a problem. Contact me on email for the bypass procedure. At 02:58 PM 98/08/15 -0500, you wrote: > >Finally got around to looking inside the MicroVax II I acquired. It's in >the short squat rolling enclosure (BA123?) and has the following boards > > > >It has a drive apparently loaded with some version of VMS but I have to >put together a console cable to find out. Then of course, the big trick >will be the fact that I don't have VMS on tape or the passwords to the >machine itself. :( And I can't call the company that gave it to me >because several layers of red-tape were bypassed to get it to me for free. > >Hmmm...a friend of mine says I should find a variant of Unix for it but I >used to be big into VAXen (at least on the user end) and having a VMS >machine amuses me. NetBSD would be good for this machine. I run it on my Microvax II. Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 11:26:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 14, 98 07:20:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1502 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/dab2533c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 12:01:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 In-Reply-To: <6d8cb36a.35d57558@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Aug 15, 98 07:47:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/c7fd2e16/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 11:47:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <19980815024758.28153.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 14, 98 07:47:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1324 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/2d939c70/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 12:19:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 15, 98 09:11:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/1eab5f15/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Aug 15 17:19:13 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: "Bob Wood"'s message of Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:11:31 PDT References: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199808152219.PAA00579@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bob Wood" wrote: > Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people > who have pointed out that I have missed out on something > by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers > to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with > a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette. > Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just > about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have > no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And > I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate > enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow > me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside > these computers I may never be able to see it play. Here you are on this mailing list, you make a statement like that, and you don't past the statement of ignorance to asking for help? What kind of idjit are you? Could it be that you're afraid you might start learning things and thus end up like us? BWAHAHAHA! Here's the kind of idjit that I am: been there, done that (well, it was FOCAL, not Star Trek), and I can't remember what you have to type at the SOL monitor prompt to load and run the program off tape. LO? Do you have to give it load addresses, and tell it where to start execution (EX?) after loading? I've got the documentation (for FOCAL) but it'd be an afternoon of work to get to it right now. Bah. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Aug 15 17:04:32 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Marvin's message of Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:20:49 -0700 References: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> Message-ID: <199808152204.PAA00255@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Marvin wrote: > There have been several comments so far about higher prices reducing the > availability of older computers/radios/etc. As a point of discussion, > what can be done about it? If the intent is to work on and find out how > things work, I don't see *any* difference between an existing older > machine, and a new one built from existing schematics. Yes, I do > realize that some of the electronics are unavailable easily anymore. That's a darn good question. That's actually the sort of thing that got me into collecting computers -- I wanted to learn something practical about hardware. (Did I? No, not really; now I collect because I'm an addict.) The fundamental problem with the answer is that most of us are cheap/spoiled. Me too. We've got used to being able to pick up hacker toys for cheap. What can you do in the way of a new machine built from existing schematics for say $50? (Cue Tim Shoppa to tell us how much it would cost to build an IMSAI today.) Well, OK, maybe you don't need all that casework, it just gets in the way when you want to do serious hardware hacking anyway. Here's where I end up following this line of thought: hackable singleboard kits. Personally I'm partial to something like a cross between a microprocessor trainer or eval kit and the Morrow Micro Decision (a Z80 with 64KB DRAM, floppy disk controller w/34-pin connector, couple of serial ports), maybe y'all have other ideas. -Frank McConnell From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 17:37:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808152204.PAA00255@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: $12K too much for you to pay for an Altair? OK, here's a guy that made a $25 Altair clone: http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376565144 -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 18:56:49 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil Message-ID: Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boards that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:14:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boards > that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? I got a bunch that way recently, too. But mine came from a distinguished scientist who should've understood that aluminum is a conductor :-( Just don't rub your feet on the carpet for good luck before you unwrap them. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:19:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) -- Doug From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Aug 15 18:12:41 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> At 12:46 PM 8/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >I fell very truly sorry for you. In a computer you have such an awesome >and powerful device, which can educate you in more than a few ways. >Newer equipment to a lesser degree, it's all black-boxes and corporate secrets >now, but older gear is perfect for finding out how things work. It's a shame A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? I think that automobiles are similar, in that knowing how they work, and how to work on them, is really cool, and yet, a lot of us drive modern machines (<20yo) and take them to mechanics, without ever thinking about them. That's not wrong, but if you can see the similarity, it may help to understand those who use computers without caring about how they work, or without wanting to work on them themselves. (P.S., I drive a '59 Land Rover(s) and my girlfriend's '89 Mazda.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Aug 15 18:12:44 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980815140211.5ed71824@ricochet.net> At 03:00 PM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of Altairs as collectibles. For example, Beanie babies are neither new in concept, well made, or even terribly uncommon. Yet they sometimes sell for ridiculous prices. Meanwhile, quality toys, which are far more uncommon, and were, in their time, ground-breaking, often sell for much less. Collector value is a function of perceived importance and perceived rarity. It may or may not have any basis whatsoever in actual fact. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Aug 15 18:27:39 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35d81833.18572425@insight> As I understand it, the idea is to keep the whole board at the same potential, whatever that is. Damage only happens when you get one part of the board grounded and another part hits a higher (or lower) potential; current flows through components, probably in ways not intended, and certainly at higher voltages than normal if it's static electricity. I would think you could wrap a board in foil, charge it up to a few thousand volts of static electricity, and then ground the foil with a big blue spark and no damage to the board. If the wrapping being conductive is a problem, why does the whole industry go to such pains to use conductive foam, peanuts, and metallic plastic bags? -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 18:34:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 03:56:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/7b3b5d06/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 18:40:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 15, 98 04:12:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/d561f666/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:47:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980815140211.5ed71824@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:00 PM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > >My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The > > Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of > Altairs as collectibles. Not at all. It's the *perceived* significance and rarity that makes these things desirable and drives the price up. If a bunch of Altairs came on the market, the price would drop like a rock. If it becomes known that Bill Gates first wrote BASIC for the Schmaltztair rather than the Altair, the price drops. > For example, Beanie babies are neither new in concept, well made, or even > terribly uncommon. Yet they sometimes sell for ridiculous prices. > Meanwhile, quality toys, which are far more uncommon, and were, in their > time, ground-breaking, often sell for much less. Collector value is a > function of perceived importance and perceived rarity. It may or may not > have any basis whatsoever in actual fact. Nobody said anything about quality. Beanie Babies bring big bucks because those brilliant bastards at Ty came up with a scheme for artificial scarcity in the form of "birthdates" and "retirement". Once the Beanie Moms figure out they've been the victim of big scam, prices will drop like a rock. Once the overzealous Altair collectors and dealers figure out that they've been paying big bucks for a rather insignifcant flakey box, prices should drop. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 19:12:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > The foil forms a faraday cage round the boards and protects them from > static. About the only danger from wrapping boards like this is that if > the foil and board are at different potentials when wrapped, there will > be a diacharge from the foil to the board. But apart from that, it's > perfectly OK to wrap them in foil. Time for me to brush up on my physics. So, does this really work well in practice? It seems to me that when I'm holding a board in one hand, I'm grounding any components that happen to be touching the foil, but there will be plenty of microgaps. If I then zap the foil, I would guess my chance of zapping more than one component would be greater than if the board were either completely isolated from the foil or completely in contact. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 19:16:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 07:12:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/e00755d3/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 19:34:21 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remember that you essentially have a hollow conductor with no charges > inside. The electric field inside such a conductor is 0. So no zaps at all. Got it. So the main danger would be when the pins start poking holes in the foil, have a little clearance around them, and then I zap the pins directly. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 19:34:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 07:34:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 509 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/f5ccb512/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 15 20:29:57 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808151329.AA07413@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D63615.7125D780@rain.org> Megan wrote: > > Well said... I agree entirely. It makes me really sad and somewhat > angry to think that some of this stuff can now only be bought by > people with deep pockets -- people who probably don't have any > contact with the computer field other than possibly using a PC... > people Have you priced out the Apple I recently? I would love to have one for the collection, but with the pricing going from $15K to $25K or so (don't know for sure), it is unlikely I will ever get one. On the other hand, I am quite sure anyone who obtains one won't be likely to junk it, and *that* is one of my main concerns. > I remember working on helping to build, and then later program one of > these machines when I was in college (1974-1978)... I've always wanted > to > get one for the sake of memories, but that'll never happen now... Never know what will happen. I ended up with a number of machines that could have been sold but the people involved thought I would better be able to appreciate it. This includes the IBM 5100 and accessories, a Lisa 2, and two of my Altairs. > No, I don't want to see you kicked off the list either, but I can't > say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they > are > about latest acquisitions/sales... I, for one, will most definitely look forward to more posts about the values being attached to the older computers. As with any field, it pays (pun intended) to be aware of the values others put on the objects in question. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 21:55:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs Message-ID: OK, I've spent around 8 hours today going through the pile of PDP-11 stuff that I got. In doing so I've made a disturbing discovery. Of the 4 RL02 disk packs that contain the media kit for RSX-11M 4.1, 3 of them have red markers. You know the ones that say don't use if marker is red. What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". Secondly, can a RL01 be read in a RL02 drive, or will I have to get one of the RL01's that I got today up and running in order to archive the RL01 packs. I want to get one of them archived ASAP as it has Whitesmith C on it (and I think Pascal). None of the RL01's have white/red markers so I've no idea how safe they are. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Aug 15 21:15:04 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980815221108.006a05e0@netpath.net> Maybe I'm thinking of all the 9600/14.4 modems I have worked with. Most of the 2400 I came across were internals. At 04:23 AM 8/15/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >Odd. An awful lot of the external modems I've dealt with were 12-24 >VAC power supplies. Just about anything by Tandy comes to mind from >the bad old days when 1200 bps was considered "fast", but I'm pretty - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 22:17:20 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: In looking at the PDP-11/03's that I got today, one thing is very obvious. They've got disk controllers that are useless to me. The controllers are from a company called 'Xebec', and it is my understanding that they went to special drives. Now I know that the /03's are SLOW, however, they're in a nice little case so I'm looking at them thinking, hmmmm. I wonder if I can put a DILOG floppy controller I've got in one of them. What I'm wondering is do such things as drive controllers care about the 18bit / 22bit differences of the backplane? At least it's my understanding that a PDP-11/03 has a 18bit backplane. On a separate note, I ended up with 3 more VT100's with this, and one of them had a loose top, so I took a look inside, and noticed that it has what looks to be a Q-Bus backplane. What is the story here? Can I put some cards in here and have a working PDP-11? (I know figure the odds) I took a look through the VT100 tech manual I got today, but couldn't find anything about the backplane. On a positive note, I've finally got some documentation, so maybe I'll quite asking so many stupid questions. :^) On that note, I think I'll send this, and spend some time trying to find some shelf space for said documentation :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 22:27:31 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As long as I'm getting physics lessons, I figure now's a good time for chemistry. I've got a bunch of portables, most of them with batteries. The batteries are clearly the weak-points of these systems in terms of long-term viability. First, is there any way to ensure the batteries live forever? If not, what's the best way to preserve them, how long should I expect them to last, and what can I do now to prepare for the inevitable repair/replacement down the road? My current plan is to remove all batteries and store them in the fridge, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Do some battery types store better than others? I have to deal with NiCd, Li+, NiMH, and Lead-acid. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 22:29:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration Message-ID: <199808160329.AA13241@world.std.com> >> prompt. Then it's >>>B/1 DUA0 (assumes first MSCP drive) when SYSBOOT> happens... SYSBOOT>>> SET UAFALTERNATE 1 SYSBOOT>>> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSBOOT>>> CONT then you see a normal vms boot proceed. When it gives the process terminated hit return a few times. LOGIN: SYSTEM PASSWORD: {only give a return} PASSWORD: {again ONLY RETURN} you are now logged in to the system account in single user mode. change the passwaord to something safe. $ DEFINE SYSUAF SYS$SYSTEM:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM $ RUN AUTHORIZE UAF> MOD/PASS=system system {SYSTEM account now has password SYSTEM} UAF> exit $@sys$system:shutdown when shutdown prompts for action taken hit return {take default}. When it says it's all done and you can halt the system hit the halt button and we do it again thins time with a real password. >>>B/1 dua0 SYSBOOT>>> SET UAFALTERNATE 0 {use the noew password} SYSBOOT>>> SET STARTUP_P1 "" {normal system start} SYSBOOT>>> CONT after it does its things LOGIN: SYSTEM PASSWORD: SYSTEM {FYI, ccase insensitive and notmally not echoed} Your in and have system managers prives. HELP at the $ prompt gets help. Also there are four OSs that run on it, BSD unix, netBSD, Ultrix (DEC) and VMS(DEC). The first will be hard to get. The second sorta works and ultrix I ahve no idea on the license. VMS is available on CD or any media you can find. VMS V5.4 through 6.1 are on the CD and all are under the same DECUS free hobbiest license. The versions on the CD are standard releases and DECnet runs. The CD and many archives have CMUip (TCP/IP stack) and a few other neat things. Have fun. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 22:29:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil Message-ID: <199808160329.AA13338@world.std.com> < Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boa < that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? Ok, I'll guess. You got some PDP-11 board for an older 11/03. They arrived wrapped in aluminum foil. Are they any good? Well, I don't know. However, wrapping them in foil is a excellent way to protect them from static damage. REALLY! If they were good that will insure they stay that way assuming no mechanical damage occurs. Allison From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Aug 15 22:42:23 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests Message-ID: <000801bdc8c7$e1dac560$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> would you take $2.4000 ? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:21 PM Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests >Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, >and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) > >-- Doug > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 23:41:10 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > (the WCS - Writeable Control Store I mentioned), so you can redefine the > Unlike just about every other machine of that time, there is no text > mode. However, the designers wanted it to be as fast at displaying text > as machines with said hardware text mode, so they designed a 'raster op > machine' - what we'd now call a blitter - to handle screen updates. Sounds like an Amiga 1000. ;) ;) ;) > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 23:51:58 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> >On a separate note, I ended up with 3 more VT100's with this, and one of >them had a loose top, so I took a look inside, and noticed that it has >what looks to be a Q-Bus backplane. What is the story here? Can I put >some cards in here and have a working PDP-11? (I know figure the odds) >I took a look through the VT100 tech manual I got today, but couldn't >find anything about the backplane. What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was in the RT-11 development group was a VT103 with an 11/73 (KDJ11-A), 256kb and a DSD880/20 controller. I did lots of RT development and testing on that machine... I still have the machine in my office in Nashua, even though I am doing Alpha work nowadays. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 23:52:24 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Mark Tapley wrote: > >So, first open up the mouse, and clean the dirt out of the sensors.... > > While it's open, I also recommend you check continuity of the wires in the > cable. I've had a mouse fail because there was a serious kink in one of the > wires in the cable. That cable gets a lot of flexing and the kink > eventually broke that wire. Good thought. There aren't any obvious kinks, but there are all kinds of reasons a cable might fail. > I got an intermittent fault so I could localize > it by bending the cable manually and fix it by slitting the cable open, > splicing the wire, and taping it back up. That's not a very elegant fix, > but it worked. A whole new cable with a new connector at the end would be > nicer. I did the same thing with the cable on my Apple ]['s light pen, but it didn't last very long. I'd like to replace the cable, but the card is sealed in epoxy or something (nice solid black block of "stuff") and I haven't managed to open the pen itself, either. That light pen was an interesting device, with the most hilariously bad Japanese English manual, and I'd like to get it working again. I'll put that on my (ever-lengthening) "to do" list as well. > - Mark Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Aug 16 00:12:10 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) > [...] > > Dynalogic Hyperion > > You'll be happy to know we almost never see those Canadian Hyperion things > in California. They're pretty cool. I think mine is the only DOS 1.x > machine I've got. While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why you specify DOS 1.x? I've managed to run DOS 5.0 on my Hyperions, though I haven't done a lot of checking to see if everything works or not. DOS 3.2 crashes on one of my Hyperions, but not the other, so there must be some variations. I'm sure I've also seen another luggable system from Dynalogic that resembled the original Compaq. Has anyone else seen one of those? I dismissed as "just a crappy PC clone" at the time, but I have since become interested in that class of machine and I regret not picking that Dynalogic beast up. No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? Even programs like (an old version of) Norton's SI do weird things to my Hyperions, but VisiCalc and WordStar seem to run just fine. :) > -- Doug Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 01:35:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: <199808160329.AA13338@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boa >< that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? > >Ok, I'll guess. > >You got some PDP-11 board for an older 11/03. >They arrived wrapped in aluminum foil. >Are they any good? > >Well, I don't know. However, wrapping them in foil is a excellent way >to protect them from static damage. REALLY! If they were good that >will insure they stay that way assuming no mechanical damage occurs. I guess that wasn't a very clear question, what can I say, I was in a bit of a hurry when I typed that. Basically I was wondering if wrapping boards in foil was as stupid as it sounded to me, or if it actually made some sense. I guess based on the various answers it makes at least a little sense. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 01:56:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: >What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was >in the RT-11 development group was a VT103 with an 11/73 (KDJ11-A), >256kb and a DSD880/20 controller. I did lots of RT development and >testing on that machine... I still have the machine in my office >in Nashua, even though I am doing Alpha work nowadays. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Now this is sounding fun. One question, do you feed the output from the SLU to the input of the VT? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 00:56:35 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an > IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why > you specify DOS 1.x? Because that's what mine came with. The Hyperion was intro'd at the Spring 1982 Comdex, which I think beat Compaq's intro, so natch the world's first portable DOS machine is going to come with MS-DOS 1.x. > No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's > internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? I take it you don't have the original docs or software? Mine came with some software called IN:TOUCH that uses the modem. I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); the connectors in the back from left to right are: composite video, phone, line, optional accoustic coupler, serial, parallel, expansion; display modes: 320x200, 640x200, 320x250, 640x250. Send me mail privately if you'd like illegal copies of the software, including BASICA and MACRO-86 1.0 (MASM 1.0?). -- Doug From rws at ais.net Sun Aug 16 01:25:15 1998 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I guess that wasn't a very clear question, what can I say, I was in a bit > of a hurry when I typed that. Basically I was wondering if wrapping boards > in foil was as stupid as it sounded to me, or if it actually made some > sense. I guess based on the various answers it makes at least a little > sense. Yes, wrapping PCB's in foil is one of the best ways to protect from static damage (there's no aluminized layer to wear out), with the following warning. Check the board first to make certain there are no batteries on it. Lithium batteries can explode if they are shorted for more than a few seconds. Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 02:33:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Once the overzealous Altair collectors and dealers figure out that they've > been paying big bucks for a rather insignifcant flakey box, prices should > drop. I don't think that will ever happen (at least I mean I don't think prices will ever drop to reasonable levels based on the merits of the Altair). The Altair is too much a part of computer lore, and the perception of its importance whether deserved or not will always remain. On the other hand, if Altairs start to flood the market, then you'll see a drop. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 05:12:54 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I passed up a Hyperion recently because the thrift (!) shop wanted $35 for it which is way beyond my upper limit. There are still a couple of manuals for software that I guess came with it. The binders have Hyperion printed on them. If you are interested I would pass them on to you for cost. I don't know how common/rare this stuff is so I thought I'd ask. They were about a dollar each. Colan Toronto On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an > > IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why > > you specify DOS 1.x? > > Because that's what mine came with. The Hyperion was intro'd at the > Spring 1982 Comdex, which I think beat Compaq's intro, so natch the > world's first portable DOS machine is going to come with MS-DOS 1.x. > > > No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's > > internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? > > I take it you don't have the original docs or software? Mine came with > some software called IN:TOUCH that uses the modem. > > I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few > tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); the connectors in the back from > left to right are: composite video, phone, line, optional accoustic > coupler, serial, parallel, expansion; display modes: 320x200, 640x200, > 320x250, 640x250. > > Send me mail privately if you'd like illegal copies of the software, > including BASICA and MACRO-86 1.0 (MASM 1.0?). > > -- Doug > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Aug 16 05:32:30 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Great! I dread opening up the Mac, though, so I hope it's the mouse. > > It's not that hard to open up a Mac, given that extra-long Torx driver. I've got a straight-blade screwdriver that fits. I've had the Mac open at least three times. I know it's not hard. It's just that the monitor scares me. Whether it's justified fear or not, I don't know. Actually, I HAD to open it up when I first got it home, just to get it to do anything better than display a garbled "sad mac". The MacSnap memory board that was clipped onto the chips on the motherboard had cracked connectors, and removing it allowed the Mac to boot up. > Logic probes vary in cost. Radio Shack used to sell a reasonable one for > \pounds 16.00 in the UK. That's about the cheapest I've seen (although > Greenweld once had one for a tenner), but it's useable on most classic > computers. HP do some nice ones, going up to about $800. But you only > need that sort of instrument if you are seriously into this stuff. Well I'm glad there are cheap ones. A lot more stuff will be doable once I get my hands on one of those. I should keep my eyes peeled for a 'scope, too, but I don't really know what to look for. Luckily, with classic hardware, I don't need anything terribly fast. > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From bobstek at ix3.ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 08:54:22 1998 From: bobstek at ix3.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: <199808160702.AAA25032@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <000001bdc91d$5f183b20$360b3ccc@mycroft> At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run Trek80 on your SOL: 1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. 2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ . 3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on several of my original PT tapes. And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and falling debris. email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that tape - are you listening, Frank?) Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs bobstek@ix.netcom.com From wanderer at bos.nl Sun Aug 16 08:40:35 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <35D6E153.4DCD@bos.nl> Hello all, Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and how many have been made? Thanks, Ed From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Aug 16 04:22:12 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: GRC 11/X3 (PDP 11/?? Clone?) in Brisbane Message-ID: <000001bdc90e$e8b764a0$32f665cb@default> I was surprised by an ad for a "PDP 11 plus plotter, monitors, disc units, printer $20" and I did a half-hour drive across town to see it this morning. What I found was a hotch-potch of branded components stacked inside a garage, but nothing from Digital apart from the RT-11 and other software manuals. The processor cage, or at least a separate "spare" cage, was badged General Robotics Corp Microcomputer GRC 11/X3 and contained boards marked on the tabs M8192, M7504 and two M8043 as well as others without marked tabs. I guess this was a PDP clone? This computer is in the Comprehensive Computer Catalog I last downloaded (Dec 97 date) on the "undated list". The "in use" processor cage was mounted in the front of a steel cabinet about 2-3' deep, about 3' high and 2' wide with a Cipher brand tape drive (Magnetic Peripherals Inc) above it. Separately boxed was a Control Data Drive CDC-CMD and to top it all off there was a BIG plotter, a Nicolet Zeta 3653sx (if I can read my scrawled notes correctly) about 4' wide and 18" high. A Compaq brand monitor went with it. The folder of documentation contained a manual for a F880 Magnetic Tape Transport but the present owner said he sent a 5-6' high tape unit to the tip a year ago so that might have been it. He also dumped a printer. Other documents referred to a M224X Fujitsu 51/4" 31-86MB drive and a SRQ011 Winchester Drive Controller but I'm not sure if they were there. There were certainly other boxes mounted in the main cabinet. There were two cardboard boxes full of manuals for SCO Xenix System V, LP1 Fortran, RT11 Fortran IV, RT11 Macro-11 and something called TSX-Plus V6.01, the RT-11 User Guide and many other fat folders of RT-11 stuff. There was heaps of irrelevant stuff stored on top and around these units so it was difficult to see everything, and as I was not going to take it away myself, I couldn't hang around keeping the owner away from what he was doing any longer. He said it all came from a geophysical company office and was in working order two years ago. All he had done is store it, but it appears to have suffered some damage - some panels were hanging loose, and there was a large old TV stored on the CDC drive causing the metal top to be bent in. If any Australians (or others?) are interested in this gear, you can contact me and I will put you in contact with the owner directly. He says he wants the space cleared, but will keep the gear for a little while yet - he does seem to want it to go to someone who can do something with it - and he is not asking much money. But remember, to take it all away, you will need at least a 1t truck! It's out of my league to get this going - I really only collect micros! The day wasn't wasted - I did pick up a CoCo3 128K system with a Tandy dual floppy disk drive and Tandy monitor plus manuals, heaps of Rompacks, magazines etc for $40, and all in perfect working order. Phil Guerney Brisbane - Australia. guerney@uq.net.au From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 07:26:39 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! References: <000001bdc91d$5f183b20$360b3ccc@mycroft> Message-ID: <35D6CFFF.71D328C7@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Bob Stek wrote: > > At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run > Trek80 on your SOL: > > 1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, > press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. > 2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ > . > 3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with > something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then > enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. > > BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old > tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on > several of my original PT tapes. > > And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve > Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode > by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio > nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and > falling debris. > > email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, > or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that > tape - are you listening, Frank?) > > Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs > > bobstek@ix.netcom.com I'd love a copy of SOL documentation. I have one on the way and havent used one since 1980. Tony From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 08:22:07 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Yep... Although actually, that's not that big a problem. Use a couple of > layers of foil and you should be OK... Got boards you need to store safely? Drop in any PC store that builds systems in house. They have should bunches of anti-static bags & boxes headed for the trash. I got a bunch yesterday from regular PC motherboards that were a perfect fit for some UniBus stuff. -wayne From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 08:34:34 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Megan wrote: > What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a > more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build Wow, I've thrown out a couple dozen VT100/102/131s in the last 5 years at work. I guess they were pretty nice 20 years ago coming from a VT52 ;) If anyone has fondness for them, I've got a bunch more that will probably be hitting the dumpster soon. -wayne From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sun Aug 16 09:14:02 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <009301bdc920$1ee989c0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> > >What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was I have some VT100 lookalikes lying around, a VT101 and a VT131. Any chance that these also can be turned into PDP11's? From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Aug 16 09:42:51 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Another trip to Temple Message-ID: <010f01bdc924$891e1e60$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I made *another* trip to Temple University this weekend, so here's a rundown on the haul: - Magazines: the remaining Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics issues. I have most issues from mid-1976 to 1982. Byte Magazine -- 1978 to 1981, scattered issues. I still have to get mid-1981to 1987 (they have to 1993, but Byte stopped being Byte around 1987 I think). Interface Age -- a handful of issues. Kilobaud -- a handful of issues. A+ -- random issues. - some random PC/XT/AT cards (CGA video, floppy cards with a DB37 external port) - SWTP dual external floppy drive with interface card. This one, plus two SWTP motherboard units (which I did not take), were under a pile of new-looking RA81 drives. This is up for trade, since I have no SWTP stuff. - RX02 and interface card - Small Houston Instruments flat-bed plotter. Once I get the model# off of it, I'll be asking for info :-). I will have go back one more time for the rest of the Byte's :-). After that, I think that I'm through there. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:03:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 07:17:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1756 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/5962ae8e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:15:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 10:27:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2275 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/874a812f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:20:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 16, 98 00:41:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/a6cf6aef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 05:58:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 06:55:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 921 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/b4c14206/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:40:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 16, 98 06:32:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2913 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/13361ce7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:41:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 10:56:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/3b9fd321/attachment.ksh From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 10:55:25 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise > subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to > cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that > the pack will be fine. Yup, agreed. Those drives and packs were pretty rugged. The service manual for my now-gone RK05s detailed disassembling the cartridge housing, removing the platter, and manually cleaning it with isopropyl wipes! It didn't work so well on the 20GB IDE drive I tried it on, though. Go figure?! ;) -wayne From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 16 11:29:30 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! Message-ID: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> > >At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run >Trek80 on your SOL: > >1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, >press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. >2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ >. >3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with >something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then >enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. > >BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old >tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on >several of my original PT tapes. > >And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve >Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode >by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio >nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and >falling debris. > >email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, >or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that >tape - are you listening, Frank?) > >Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs > >bobstek@ix.netcom.com Thanks, Bob. Looks like you may be getting me aboard the Starship Enterprise after all. I will give it my best shot. I have the SOL docs somewhere in this nightmarishly cluttered and disorganized museum I live in. May have TARGET too. I will take your advice and copy the Trek 80 cassette. I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? Bob Wood > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Aug 16 11:40:48 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: References: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980816094048.03537d70@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:34 AM 8/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >Wow, I've thrown out a couple dozen VT100/102/131s in the last 5 years at >work. I guess they were pretty nice 20 years ago coming from a VT52 ;) If >anyone has fondness for them, I've got a bunch more that will probably be >hitting the dumpster soon. > > -wayne So... the obvious question for the shipping challenged, where would these be starting from? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Aug 16 11:47:50 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980816094750.035cbc00@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:58 AM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >> What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images >> using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what >> concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". > >That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise >subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to >cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that >the pack will be fine. > >Personally, I'd be inclined to try them - once. Keep a finger on the load >button and spin down if you get any unusual sounds. The heads _might_ be >OK if you do that. Well... having had to deal with this situation a number of times, I'd add one more comment. From the time you press 'load', you have about 15-20 seconds before the heads load. When I'm dealing with unknown packs with the 'shockwatch' tripped, (after a close visual inspection) I keep a hand lightly on the drive while it is spinning up to help detect unusual vibrations. (you get used to the normal 'feel' after a while) A badly pranged pack will often give itself away in time to abort the load (and save the heads). YMMV! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Aug 16 11:56:47 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Setting-up RX02 Message-ID: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Part of the haul this weekend was a DEC RX02 floppy drive and RX211 controller (for my 11/34a). I don't have any data on the controller, so how do I set it up properly? What are the default settings and what do the switch positions mean? Also, the cable that I got seems to have one contuctor broken (the pin-1 designator/red stripe). Is there any magic to the length of the cable? Can I create a new one of the same length using standard 40-pin IDC connectors and ribbon cable? Can I shorten it to the break point or should I just patch it? Any tips here are appreciated. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 14:28:25 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? Message-ID: I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? colan From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 14:31:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work again? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Sun Aug 16 14:44:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C542@NT486> >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and how many have been made? Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. IIRC there were three basic models, the /40, /42, and/44. The 44 was the high end, full 64K and the fast PerSci disks. Just before IMSAI folded, they were offering a hard drive interface to some type of 5MB top loading drive (I think it was some CDC drive equivalent to the DEC RL02), at least the salesman called and tried to sell me some, but I never actually saw them. IMSAI was famous for it's vaporware. System software was CP/M 2 with NED (aka WordMaster), a nice video terminal oriented editor. I still have one, though it does need a little work on the motherboard. How I got it was an interesting story in itself. Originally I had bought four of them for a customer, in late '78, just before IMSAI folded. After they were installed I didn't have too much contact with the customer, but I knew they were in use for several years. About 12 years later a friend of mine came over one night, dumped a VDP40 on my table and said I could have it. He had paid $5 for it at a yard sale, knew I had some IMSAIs, thought I might want it. I opened it up, and to my suprise found the custom serial card I had wired for the original customer still in there, it was one of the original VDPs I had bought. No idea how it wound up at a yard sale. Jack Peacock From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 16 14:39:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808161939.AA01357@world.std.com> >Now this is sounding fun. One question, do you feed the output from the >SLU to the input of the VT? You should be able to do that... but the VT103 had some special paddle board which plugged into the connector on the VT100 basic video board and which provided a connector (2x5) which connects to something like an MXV11-B, and a second connector which also attaches to the MXV11-B (or DLV11-J) and routes the signals through to the external connector (if I remember correctly - otherwise it provides a separate external conenction). I'll have to open up my VT103 at work one of these days to get the info for you (like part numbers). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:42:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: 3M Model 7500 plotter and a story Message-ID: I got this somewhat neat plotter today made by 3M circa 1984. Its a portable dealie that can be programmed for different types of bar and pie charts and plots, plus has text capabilities. It has a keyboard with an integrated LCD matrix display that slides off the front. It prompts you for the type of chart you want, then asks you to enter all the data points in. It then plots it for you. I also got a separate unit that has a micro-cassette storage drive and a carthridge slot for some type of modem option. So anyway, there's a reason why I'm talking about this relatively boring relic. Last week I was out of town on a project and was going home for the weekend. On my way to the airport I stopped off at a thrift store. One of the things I came across was this 3M plotter. It was marked at $29.99, but this is one of those shops that slashes prices every couple of days as the thing doesn't sell. I wanted to take it, more so because I was curious as to what it was, thinking it might be a computer with the keyboard and micro-cassette storage and all. But I didn't want to spend $30 on it and I certainly couldn't take it with me on the plane, and didn't have enough time to grab it, haul it back to the local office, then high-tail it back to the airport. So I figured when I returned on Monday, I'd head back to the shop confident it would still be there. When I got in Monday I missed the store closing by a minute. I came back in the morning of the next day to find it gone. I asked one of the store clerks if he knew what happened to it and he said that it was tossed out the night before. AAGGH!!! I was bummed, only because I thought it might have been something really neat but didn't have the chance to find out. Also, I'd failed to write down the model number and thus couldn't do a useful web search. I figured one day I would run into one again and would just have to be patient until then. Well, I would have never thought that day would be so soon. The best part is the one I got today was cheaper ($7), had a hard plastic carrying case, came with a (photocopied) manual, and some plotter paper and pens. And it works (I'm playing with it right now, its actually really cool, and useful!!) Plus the one I saw last week was on the east coast, this one was on the west, at a flea market near where my parent's live that I haven't been to in ages. So what is the purpose of this long rambling? Uncie Sam's story has a moral: there's (almost) ALWAYS one more out there, so if you don't get it the first time, don't fret (and certainly don't pay $12,100 for it). Serendipity will prevail someday and you'll get one too, but you have to be out there looking to make it happen. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:46:54 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? I have three of these beasts. I would hardly call them portable but you may be talking about a differnet model than mine. The ones I have are definitely desk-bound. They are cute looking, with a small (8") screen mounted to the side of the keyboard on a cylinder and can swivel left and right. I have the manual but don't know much about them. I got them last year and, as with everything else I've acquired since then, haven't had a chance to sit down and play with them. If yours matches the description of mine then one day I'll pull the manual (haven't the foggiest where it would be at this point) and help you do something with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 14:50:19 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 References: Message-ID: <35D737FB.7E289EE@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Doug Yowza wrote: > > I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's > worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work > again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > > -- Doug Not really. I had a chance to pick up a C64, 2 x 1541, a 1702 monitor, and about 40 games (still in boxes) for $55 this weekend. Turned him down (for now). Tony From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:50:47 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C542@NT486> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and > how many have been made? > > Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, > around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special > purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size > IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to > look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came > with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very > reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power > supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an > extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, > just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of > the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? Is my information wrong? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 14:55:48 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: MIT Flea Haul Message-ID: <35D73944.803385CC@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Well, I certainly wasn't disappointed on my first trip to the MIT flea market this weekend. I went there with childish entusiasm and $200 in my pocket and left with: 1 Atari 800 - Not working but I can fix it (needs a new 6502 wich I got tons of) 1 Vic-20 - Working 1 TI99/4A (Cream Colored) - Working 1 Macintosh Portable - Needs some work 1 Osborne 1 - Needs work but I got the technical manual with it 1 Osborne Executive - Powers up but I need a boot disk 1 Kaypro 1 - Powers up, need boot disk 1 Kaypro 2 - Powers up, need boot disk 1 Kaypro 4 - Powers Up and boots (came with Wordstar, Microplan, Basic-80, and CP/M 2.2) and $65.00 or so of my original cash. I also was able to nab a CoCo2 at a local flea for $5 Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:30:56 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 07:17:20 pm Message-ID: >> >> In looking at the PDP-11/03's that I got today, one thing is very obvious. >> They've got disk controllers that are useless to me. The controllers are >> from a company called 'Xebec', and it is my understanding that they went to >> special drives. > >Hmmm.. I associate 'Xebec' with ST506 controllers. What are the >connectors on these strange boards. 'Special drives' in a DEC machine may >mean anything not made by DEC. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:34:22 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <009301bdc920$1ee989c0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: >> >>What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >>more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >>a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was > > >I have some VT100 lookalikes lying around, a VT101 and a VT131. >Any chance that these also can be turned into PDP11's? Well, based on the fact that the terminal I've got says it's a either a VT100 or a VT101, I'd say pull the back options plate off (only takes 4 screws) if you see a 4 slot backplane in there you're probably good to go. If not, your out of luck. I opened up the second of the three terminals this morning when I was getting some stuff ready to go into storage. It doens't have the backplane. I've got one more I'll have to check. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:42:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 06:55:23 pm Message-ID: >> What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images >> using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what >> concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". > >That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise >subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to >cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that >the pack will be fine. That's good to hear, I suspected this was the case, I opened the first one I noticed, and it looked OK. I don't want to trash a drive doing this, but I'm more than willing to risk it, as I've got more than I know what to do with at the moment. >Personally, I'd be inclined to try them - once. Keep a finger on the load >button and spin down if you get any unusual sounds. The heads _might_ be >OK if you do that. Will do, plus I'll keep Jims suggestion of watching for wierd vibrations in mind. Unfortunatly it's looking like it will be next weekend at the earliest before I can give them a try. I'm having a hard enough time getting stuff moved around. >> Secondly, can a RL01 be read in a RL02 drive, or will I have to get one of > >Not easily. There are 3 internal links you have to move - on the logic >board, R/W board, and the DC servo/PSU board. I can look them up for you, but >IMHO if you have an RL01, it's better to use that. OK, I got a pair of the RL01 drives with this stuff yesterday simply because I figured it would be the easiest route. I just wanted to check before I spent a bunch of time getting them going. Want to take the easy route on this one :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From peacock at simconv.com Sun Aug 16 15:08:47 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C543@NT486> >I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? Except for the floppy drive/controller the machine ran ok. I never had a memory or CPU failure. Unfortunately, the floppy drives didn't work so well, and the controller seemed to work only during certain phases of the moon. Are they rare? Okay, list bargain, I'll part with mine (no, don't thank me) for a mere $5000 (US or CDN, hey, i'll absorb the arbitrage difference). Cash of course, small unmarked bills, delivered by courier overnight. Jack Peacock From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 16:03:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: References: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: >I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's >worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work >again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > >-- Doug Actually it is worth it. I've no idea what a C128D goes for, but the CMD stuff is only a year or two old. I am kind of surprised that he's getting that good of price out of it though. Must have some diehard Commodore fans bidding on it. But in all honesty it's one amazing system. If you can find the CMD web site, you'll be surprised what this stuff is selling for new. You have to be a diehard fan to have CMD stuff, the prices are worse than for Amiga hardware, but it's a very small market. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From charlesii at nwonline.net Sun Aug 16 15:04:36 1998 From: charlesii at nwonline.net (Charles Oblender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: oddball scanner Message-ID: <35D73B54.62D3@nwonline.net> I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could find a program to use this thing? From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 15:17:29 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, this IS portable. It looks like a small sewing maching and doens't weigh that much. After I posted I found stuck insid the fake leather carrying case the manual. It looks like its a 207-100 workstation. The one your describing sounds like a 203 or 205. The, almost, best part of this find is that a man who owns a used computer store was standing behind me as I grabbed it. I've dealt with him before and he's not the most pleasant person in the world so I don't feel any guilt at all. Thanks for the reply. Boy am I happy. This makes up for the Hypericon I let go a while back. Colan On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? > > I have three of these beasts. I would hardly call them portable but you > may be talking about a differnet model than mine. The ones I have are > definitely desk-bound. They are cute looking, with a small (8") screen > mounted to the side of the keyboard on a cylinder and can swivel left and > right. > > I have the manual but don't know much about them. I got them last year > and, as with everything else I've acquired since then, haven't had a > chance to sit down and play with them. > > If yours matches the description of mine then one day I'll pull the manual > (haven't the foggiest where it would be at this point) and help you do > something with it. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 12:37:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Setting-up RX02 In-Reply-To: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 16, 98 12:56:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1588 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/c91514a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 12:26:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 16, 98 11:55:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/8a569e87/attachment.ksh From bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 19:11:34 1998 From: bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 In-Reply-To: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <000001bdc973$982ab680$360b3ccc@mycroft> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Wood [mailto:altair8800@hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 1998 9:30 AM > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Cc: bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Re: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! > > > > Thanks, Bob. Looks like you may be getting me aboard the > Starship Enterprise after all. I will give it my best shot. > I have the SOL docs somewhere in this nightmarishly cluttered > and disorganized museum I live in. May have TARGET too. > > I will take your advice and copy the Trek 80 cassette. > I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the > very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? > > Bob Wood In my recollection, Trek80 was one of the earliest "arcade" style games - certainly the earliest "real time" version of Star Trek of which I am aware. (BTW, the copyright dates on Trek80 and Target are both 1977.) I remember a BASIC implementation of Star Trek available on time sharing computers several years earlier. And IIRC, David Ahl's book "101 BASIC Computer Games" had a listing of it, and that must have been published around 1975 or 1976. But these BASIC versions all gave you as much time as you wanted to make your move. Trek80 and Target may have been among the earliest "real time" games programmed in assembler for the speed you needed for decent response from a 2 MHz 8080, and even then were specific to the memory-mapped VDM display. Perhaps other members of this list are aware of earlier arcade style games. There could not have been too many earlier attempts given the speed of output devices at the time. It wasn't until Microsoft came out with their BASIC compiler (19??) that I recall seeing games like PacMan and Ladders for serial terminals. And, Bob, if you start falling in love with the SOL, a friend is compiling an audio CD-ROM of all available PT cassette software - just substitute a portable CD player in place of the cassette recorder, and your SOL will be among the first vintage computers with a CD interface (sort of)! When he has the final version ready, I'll post how to get in touch with him. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 16:07:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816160742.3b7f570c@intellistar.net> At 12:40 AM 8/16/98 +0100, Tony said: >> A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >> many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? > >I don't drive (yet), Ah, Tony, how do you have to be to drive in the UK? My guess is that you're about 40! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 16:21:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816162132.3b87e27e@intellistar.net> At 06:19 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, >and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) > >-- Doug Ok $.50 . That's my best offer. Oh, you said Apple weenies. Well that leaves me out. Joe From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 17:26:46 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: VT100 w/Q-Bus Backplane Message-ID: OK, this is starting to get interesting. I've got a box labled VT100 boards, and it's definitely part of the guts of this terminal (the terminal works as a terminal). The terminal has had it's front nameplate removed (probably doesn't mean anything, they were all this way). On the back is a Digital tag declaring it to be a VT100-AA. Next to that is a ARC (Agency Records Control, Inc. of Bryon, Texas) declaring to be a Model ART 01. The box has the following: M7270 - KD11-HA - 11/03 CPU Board (dual) M8021 - MRV11-BA - UV ROM/RAM (dual) M7949 - LAV11 - LA180 Line Printer Interface (dual) _Another_ Xebec controller (Wierd disk I think) (Quad) ARC DFV-11A (Quad) ARC EIA Switch two 2x5 connectors, 2 switches (RUN/HALT and OVRD/NORM) 1 Vector Plugboard (prototyping board) unused, though the bag has been opened. I the ARC EIA goes in the options slot on the VT100 board. I think it's third party version of the card that Megan mentioned in a post today. It has one of the cables and it's 2x5 pin a connector on both ends. I don't know if all these board belong to this system or not, I'm pretty sure that the plug board doesn't. The MRV11-BA has 256 words of RAM, and 2 1k ROMS I dug through the manuals I've got, but couldn't come up with anything on what on earth a DFV-11A is. Off the top of my head I'd say I'm missing a SLU, and I need a disk controller. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 16:32:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the > very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? If you're really asking if you can sell it to Alex for $100 (or $10 to anybody else), then the answer is probably yes. But as far as "very earliest" for microcomputers, I'd have to guess: no way. Games are still typically the first program that anybody writes for a new machine. I suspect Trek was a port of the much earlier minicomputer game, but what you're asking is basically "in the time since the first microcomputer was built in 1971, were there no games until 1976?". No way. One of the earlier better-known microcomputers was the Scelbi-8H (1973). Scelbi stopped making hardware in 1974, and supposedly went into the software and book-writing biz. I know he wrote a book on games for the 8008, but I don't know the year. Well before the Sol (or even the Altair) came out, there were already several microcomputer newsletters and magazines such as Creative Computing (1974), The Computer Hobbyist (1974), and Micro-8 (1974). I'm sure you can find a bunch of references to games in these. BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the TMS1000! (This message brought to you by the Destroy The Altair Myth campaign :-) -- Doug From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Aug 16 16:47:33 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 Message-ID: <001201bdc95f$7f1e2500$32f665cb@default> A C128D running at 20MHz with 20MB of RAM plus a 2GB Hard Drive and a 1.6MB floppy drive is one extraordinary system. It is sure worth more than a "coupla bux", although I would have fallen out of the bidding by now. Note that most of these accessories are quite new and some are useable on other systems. Phil Guerney -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 5:33 AM Subject: C64 for $800 >I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's >worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work >again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > >-- Doug > > From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sun Aug 16 17:49:22 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? Message-ID: <01J0ODEO77AACYZ244@cc.usu.edu> > The TD-800 were CRT based terminals some based on 6800 micros others on > 8086 (yes indeed) Burroughs claimed that they were the first to use the > 8086 processor and helped Intel debug it. When the IBM PC came out > Burroughs were using substantially more powerful hardware just as dumb > terminals. One of the fun things about the TD-800 was that it was possible to read and write the micro's memory. I wrote a Cobol program (the only programming language I had) on a B800 to let me monkey about with the TD-800's innards. The ones I was using had a 6800 in them. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 15:57:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 12:30:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/7df7a9ea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 15:37:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808161939.AA01357@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Aug 16, 98 03:39:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1054 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/eaf87aa4/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 17:27:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816172746.458f3886@intellistar.net> At 10:27 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >As long as I'm getting physics lessons, I figure now's a good time for >chemistry. > >I've got a bunch of portables, most of them with batteries. The batteries >are clearly the weak-points of these systems in terms of long-term >viability. First, is there any way to ensure the batteries live forever? >If not, what's the best way to preserve them, how long should I expect >them to last, and what can I do now to prepare for the inevitable >repair/replacement down the road? > >My current plan is to remove all batteries and store them in the fridge, >but I'm not crazy about the idea. Do some battery types store better than >others? I have to deal with NiCd, Li+, NiMH, and Lead-acid. > >-- Doug > The battery life times should range as Lead-Acid, NiCad, NiMH, Li+ from shortest to highest. Lead Acid batteries will be ruined if you let them sit dead. Even as short a time as overnight can ruin them. It doesn't appear to hurt NiCads to let them sit dead. I'm not sure about the other two. NiCad and LA will both go bad with age even it they're not used so you may as well use them. For maximum life of NiCads DO NOT discharge them all the way or use a rapid charger on them. These discharge then rapid chargers that are all the rage with toy car owners are not only a waste of money, it's also ruining their batteries. Almost all battery packs use standard cells inside and there are plenty of places that will rebuild your old battery packs so they shouldn't be a big problem. I rebuild LOTS of them for HP and TI calculators. Joe From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 17:42:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Early Micros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I decided to get my BYTE #1 out of the vault, and a make a quick list of microcomputers that were mentioned in that issue (Sept 1975): Martin Research MIKE 2 (8008) and MIKE 3 (8080) (no mention of the MIKE 1) games mentioned: Space War, LIFE Carl Helmer's ref to a self-published article on his 8008 microcomputer (Summer 1974) MITS Altair 8800 National Semiconductor IMP-8 National Semiconductor IMP-16 (the first 16-bitter) Scelbi-8B (8008) RGS Electronics RGS 008A (8008) Mark-8 (8008) Godbout PACE (16-bitter) Sphere 1 (6800) This list is by no means complete, it just represents those who BYTE could talk into advertising by the time their first issue came out. -- Doug From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 17:48:50 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Fixing a PDP-8 cover Message-ID: <199808162248.PAA12490@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> One of the cover pieces to my PDP-8 has seperated in the one corner where the top teal plactic piece joins the translucent plastic side. What kind of glue would you recommend I use to fix this? I don't want to do any damage to the cover by using the wrong type of glue. Thanks. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 19:05:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller (was: Re: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 12:30:56 pm Message-ID: >> The connectors themselves on the board (2) are standard 50-pin ribbon, the >> other end is a 50pin connector (how do I explain this), ok you know the > >Edge connectors? Yes, that sounds like what they're called :^) Couldn't think of that. >I have seen Xebec boards that link ST506 drives to a SASI bus. Somehow, I >doubt you're lucky enough to have found a SASI interface for the PDP11, >though. > >What logic is on the Q-bus card? Mostly TTL? any large chips? Any >analogue parts? > >-tony Let's see, they're quad height boards. They're a combination of 14 and 16 pin chips. They're on a 12 x 6 grid of chips, with 5 spots not having chips, two of those spots have resisters in them. Two of the chips say Beckman on them and a grey instead of black. It's got some other components on it that I can't identify. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 14 14:48:51 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box (NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Jenkins [mailto:adam@merlin.net.au] > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 2:31 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by > being cheap. > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, > but it was also > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is > to seriously > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to > suggest that > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of > dominance (which > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the > S100) is an > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer > field. True, it > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > dominate architecture on teh market. > > >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the > elements that got > >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. > >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is > also a strong > >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting > Altairs as the > >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled > and would be > >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP > desktops, the > >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) > > I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the > collectors who > wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their > systems. I > don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do > really want a > NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the > hobbiest movement > should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view > is that the > Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a > computer, and so > even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about > one. (And yes, > I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with > the Lisa - > people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored > them in great > numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh > would have been > as successful. First you have the great implementation of a > grand concept > that you can never own, and then you follow it with an > affordable version. > Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the > hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the > potential for personal computers to move into new markets. > True, this was > a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before > the Altair, but > the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my > opinion, anyway. > > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which > the collectors > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's > praises. You > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. > > If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could > finally get my NeXT. :) > > Adam. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:14:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980816160742.3b7f570c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 16, 98 04:07:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 335 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/adcd3738/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:17:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 16, 98 04:32:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/a05a2134/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:21:21 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: VT100 w/Q-Bus Backplane In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 02:26:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/114ca87f/attachment.ksh From gene at ehrich.com Sun Aug 16 18:46:15 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: <199808162340.QAA22588@mxu2.u.washington.edu> At 01:19 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as >other systems, I think). Not true. DOS 2.1 was packaged with the PCjr. 2.11 was from microsoft and available later. > >Cliff Gregory >cgregory@lrbcg.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >To: Cgregory >Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM >Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > >> >>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? >> >> >>colan >> > ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From wpe at interserv.com Sun Aug 16 18:52:44 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? References: <3.0.1.32.19980814195833.006ea5c8@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <35D770CC.98C0A85C@interserv.com> Hmmm.... I remember a couple of incidents in the computer room, where TU78's took up smoking, on one occaision prompting the system operator to push the BIG RED BUTTON! Needless to say, a great time was had by all (It's a bit of a long story)! FWIW, in the other incident, the op on duty flipped the breaker, opened the back of the cabinet, and literally BLEW the flames out (Yup, he got an award for that one....). Will Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > At 04:30 PM 98/08/14 -0700, you wrote: > >There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at > >http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help > >in checking out the supply. > > The correct URL is http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. The root URL is a > searchable database on the Northridge California earthquake from January > 1994. Not of much relevance to our hobby... > > Kevin > > --- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 18:30:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Fixing a PDP-8 cover In-Reply-To: <199808162248.PAA12490@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 16, 98 03:48:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/b6d5d19b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 18:34:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller (was: Re: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 04:05:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 860 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/1b59d71a/attachment.ksh From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Aug 16 17:58:53 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine >was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box >(NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) This is true in the US. :) In Australia only a few NeXT's seem to have made it here, so the cost is higher, and the shipping costs from the States is prohibitive. I will get one though - just not until I have a few hundred dollars to spare. Adam. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Aug 16 17:40:43 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: <199808160329.AA13241@world.std.com> Message-ID: YES YES YES!!!!!! *Jumps about and throws mouse at floor like football* Oops... At any rate, I am now successfully logged into the MicroVax II as SYSTEM! Thanks to all who helped me out! Now if I just had documentation other than the built-in HELP database. =-D Oh well. What I have here is a system that controlled and queried devices at a utility company. It has a package (and associated running processes) that appear to update a database of these devices and notify me when they are inoperative. My theory is that it connected to them via modems because it complains that it can't access various phone related devices etc etc etc on startup. Basically, now what I'd like to do is get some assistance (in private email if it's more appropriate) to make a full backup of the system so that I can feel safer playing around with it. It's only been 7 or 8 years since I used VMS. =D I don't see any programming packages except the MACRO assembler. Hmmm...let's see I think I did Macro programming back in 91 or 92 maybe. ;) Thanks for the help and if anyone wants to help me acquire a TK50 tape and make a backup of this system, please let me know. It would be appreciated. I'm terrible about getting money to folks but I DO PAY MY DEBTS. =) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: BTW, it's running VAX/VMS 5.3-1, which is apparently not covered under the hobbyist license agreement. Hmmm...wonder if I can find the media to upgrade to 5.4... From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 16 19:09:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > > >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and > > how many have been made? > > > > Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, > > around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special > > purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size > > IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to > > look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came > > with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very > > reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power > > supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an > > extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, > > just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of > > the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. > > That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as > "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that > IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most > were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? > > Is my information wrong? Sam, I think that what you refer to was the VDP-80 which was their 'desktop' model. And 'desktop' is exactly the right expression, as it virtually covered one! It is reputed to be what put them out of business. - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:24:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Well before the Sol (or even the Altair) came out, there were already > several microcomputer newsletters and magazines such as Creative Computing > (1974), The Computer Hobbyist (1974), and Micro-8 (1974). I'm sure you > can find a bunch of references to games in these. Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer newsletter. Details abound at VCF 2.0. > BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial > MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system > (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the > TMS1000! Cool! What machine is that? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 16 19:30:04 1998 From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> Yesterday I picked up an Osborne 1 from the dump. It seems to be in relatively good physical condition apart from a missing CAPS LOCK key (which I luckily found nearby). Unfortunately, it had been rained on. The keyboard was separate from the main unit, and it was full of water. The main unit seems to be slightly better off (at least water didn't pour out of it when I picked it up). I haven't pulled either apart yet, so I haven't seen what condition the internals are in. Can anyone give me some hints on restoring this machine? What's the best way to clean mud off circuit boards and electronic components? I'm going to check the power supply separate disconnected from the main unit, so will it need a dummy load? Is there anything in particular I should check on the Osborne 1? Finally, is it possible to make a boot disk using a PC to CP/M program like Alien or 22Disk? Where can I find a boot disk image? Thanks in advance. | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:32:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Games are still typically the first program that anybody writes for a new > > machine. I suspect Trek was a port of the much earlier minicomputer game, > > but what you're asking is basically "in the time since the first > > microcomputer was built in 1971, were there no games until 1976?". No way. > > A data point. I have a list of the programs in the Intel user library > (how I wish I had the programs...), and there are several games mentioned > in there. Things like NIM, Life, Blackjack, etc. A few of them are dated > from around 1975. Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for scientific use :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 19:36:40 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 Message-ID: <199808170036.RAA19768@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Yesterday I picked up an Osborne 1 from the dump. It seems to be in >relatively good physical condition apart from a missing CAPS LOCK key >(which I luckily found nearby). Unfortunately, it had been rained on. The >keyboard was separate from the main unit, and it was full of water. The >main unit seems to be slightly better off (at least water didn't pour out >of it when I picked it up). I haven't pulled either apart yet, so I >haven't seen what condition the internals are in. I doubt the raid did much damage. Two years ago I bought a bunch of Apple II systems from a school disctrict that had set out during a storm the night before. The monitors were damp, water just poured out of the Apple IIe's upon picking them up, cards were laying on the damp ground, splattered by mud. Everything worked perfectly, and was entirely dust-free. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:43:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as > > "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that > > IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most > > were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? > > > > Is my information wrong? > > Sam, I think that what you refer to was the VDP-80 which was their > 'desktop' model. And 'desktop' is exactly the right expression, as it > virtually covered one! It is reputed to be what put them out of business. That may have been a small part of it. For the whole scoop, I recommend _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_ which tells the tale of IMSAI, how it turned into ComputerLand, and all the trickery and deceit that went on along the way. It's funny, because that story in ways sort of parallels my life at the moment with my ex-employer. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:45:18 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > A data point. I have a list of the programs in the Intel user library > > (how I wish I had the programs...), and there are several games mentioned > > in there. Things like NIM, Life, Blackjack, etc. A few of them are dated > > from around 1975. > > Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months > back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number > of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for > scientific use :) And my point was to mention that the games are from the 1972-1976 timeframe. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 19:39:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> from "Scott McLauchlan" at Aug 17, 98 10:30:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/ad193d22/attachment.ksh From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 19:48:58 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 16, 98 03:28:25 pm Message-ID: <199808170048.UAA20702@user2.infinet.com> > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? The one I got 10 years ago was a combination 3274 terminal controller and 3270/3278 terminal that spoke SNA for dialling up to an IBM SNA network. You can apparently hook multiple Informers together, using one as the 3274 and the others as terminals only, each as different logical units (LUs). It's interesting if you need to call into your local 3090, but you can't get on the 'net with the model I had. Among other problems, it was EBCDIC, not ASCII. YMMV. -ethan From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 20:02:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer > newsletter. Wow, that is historic. Where can I find out more? > Details abound at VCF 2.0. Thanks, I'll be there! > > BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial > > MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system > > (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the > > TMS1000! > > Cool! What machine is that? My mighty Science Fair Microcomputer Trainer. OK, so it's a later vintage TMS1000, but it's my only 4-bitter and I do love it so. -- Doug From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 20:00:37 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 14, 98 06:49:31 pm Message-ID: <199808170100.VAA20936@user2.infinet.com> > > I'd not worry about anything on the low voltage side of the machine - the > boards etc. While tantalum capacitors can short out and catch fire, > they're no real problem. They look a little spectacular, but that's it. > At a former company, we made DEC interface cards. We had a tantalum cap fail on one of our boards - it blew a 6mm hole in our board and the board next to it. The board to the other side in the chassis was also damaged, but not perforated. I'm told that the operators were quite upset at the noise when it blew. Normally, 'though, caps do not penetrate 6-layer boards. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 20:08:22 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813150244.03376950@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Aug 13, 98 03:02:44 pm Message-ID: <199808170108.VAA21034@user2.infinet.com> > Good luck... I had an offer out for quite a while to trade an Altair > straight across for a "straight" 8, and no one took me up on it... > > -jim I had arranged to sell a rack-mount straight-8 to someone in Oregon for $1500, some time ago. I never heard back from him after he went to investigate shipping prices from Ohio. There is a table-top straight-8 at the Smithsonian (as well as a hand-made wooden-cased Apple I and an Altair of some vintage). If it's good enough for the Smithsonian, it's good enough for my house. ;-) -ethan From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Aug 16 18:55:49 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808170100.VAA20936@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > At a former company, we made DEC interface cards. We had a tantalum > cap fail on one of our boards - it blew a 6mm hole in our board and the board > next to it. The board to the other side in the chassis was also damaged, In college, I recall that they installed a new board in either an 11/780 or an 8600 (can't remember which it was at that point) and something went *bang* and blew a hole in that board and the next one over. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. Of course, I was just a student so to the University I WAS a fly on the wall. ;) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 20:19:31 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months > > back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number > > of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for > > scientific use :) > > And my point was to mention that the games are from the 1972-1976 > timeframe. But the Nicolet wasn't MPU-based, was it? There are plenty of games that date back to the 60's (like the ever popular SpaceWar on the PDP-1), 50's (Nim, tac-tac-toe, checkers), and I'd be astounded if there weren't computer games in the 40's as well. Perhaps the most surprising is that the first pong-like arcade game was done in 1958: << As far as I know, the first arcade game was created in 1958, by Willy Higinbotham at the Dept. of Nuclear Energy in the US. He wanted to make tours of the lab a bit more exciting, and so he made an analog computer with two paddles and an oscilloscope display that let two players play a sort of two-dimensional tennis (you got a side-view of the court). To be more precise, the blueprints were made Oct. 1958, a date which has been verified. (source: _Creative_Computing_ October 1982, p. 190) >> Hey, John H.: any relation to Willy? -- Doug From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Aug 16 20:20:20 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Computer Games Message-ID: Okay. I have debated over and over, whether to say what I'm going to say next. But I can provide a tidbit of interesting info. Look: no flames... I feel bad enough as it is. Be *gentle*. More than twenty years ago... in '75. I had an E-type Jaguar. I paid about $2K for said car (4 years earlier) while serving in The Glorious and Omnipotent Soldiers of His Majesty King Richard the Nixon. I **loved** that car, lusted for it as a child, finally got one. (poignant note: nice ones are now going for $40-60K) Well. Back then, I was Very Poor, and the Jag was up on blocks deteriorating and I was taking busses and bumming rides. One of the regular customers at the little surplus shop I worked for came in one day describing this *computer* he had gotten, and didn't really want. At that time... computers were the one item I would have glady traded spiritual equity to the Dark Side to have... "I'll trade ya my old Jag for it!!" I blurted. "Deal." he said. (O! to be young again!) [NOT!!!!] What he had was a 1962 Bendix G-15, with all the docs and everything. A real, vacuum-tube, hybrid, drum machine.... The previous owner, seeing the standard 220V plug, had run a long cable from an outlet, around the building, over the roof, and in the window. The Bendix was *actually* a 110V device... but someone had installed the heftier plug due to the 175KVA the thing drew starting up. Well, my 'friend' got it home, trundled it into the garage, plugged it into the clothes-dryer outlet, and, thanks to ignoring Mr. G. S. Ohm, blew out %70 percent of the thousands of germanium glass diodes it used for passive logic. I lived in an upstairs apartment... 900lbs of computer was out of the question. One of the other guys at work volunteered *his* garage, and we went to work changing diodes. Some weeks later, we fired it up... no good. More (hidden) diodes. Again. Nothing... ooops, drum clamped and motor disconnected... and clock track on the drum... Then it worked! My, were we happy!! it was about 5:30 am on a sunday, we had worked through the night.. and there it was.. the OS signed on to the console typewriter.. and it *was* a typewriter.. and IBM Executive that Bendix had fitted solenoids under.. the keys looked like a ghost was typing when output was taking place. Which gets me to the topical thread of this post: even *it* had two games (on 5-level paper tape).. one was called Nim, and the other was a version of Tic/Tac/Toe.. which re-drew the whole game (on the s l o w typewriter) with every move. Then, the lights dimmed, all the power supply meters dropped into low-margin red zones, and the breakers snapped out. Fifteen seconds later, my friend's sleepy wife stumbled into the Computer Room (garage) and asked if we wanted some fresh coffee. You can guess which circuit the coffee-maker was on. Sigh. Five years later, he moved to a different state, and we gave the G-15 to one of the Burroughs divisions for a lobby display. I lost track of it in the rush of time and career.... what I'd give to have it back. ((What I'd give to still have my Jag!)) sniff, sniff... One of these days, maybe I'll find another, on it's side in some junk yard.... who am I kidding? Anyway... just a little bit of history on Computer Gaming. Cheers John From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 16 20:32:09 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: oddball scanner References: <35D73B54.62D3@nwonline.net> Message-ID: <35D78819.EBBFF947@rain.org> Charles Oblender wrote: > > I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there > isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could > find a program to use this thing? I am not real familiar with them, but I have both the page scanner and the hand scanner. As I recall, both require the interface card and are somewhat useless AFAIK without that card. The software came with the hand scanner, and I haven't tried it to find out if it will work with the page scanner. If they are out of business, I'd be happy to email a copy of the software. From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 16 20:51:11 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808170151.AA24681@world.std.com> >That paddleboard connector on the VT100 is one of the cleverest pieces of >design I've seen from DEC. The pins are supposed to short between the 2 >sides when there's nothing in the connector, thus linking the terminal >logic signals to the DB25 on the back. Insert a paddleboard, and you >disconnect them, allowing the paddleboard to connect separately to the >VT100 logic and the outside world. It is neat... I used that info to create my own sort of paddleboard attachment which allowed me to have the terminal EIA/20ma switch-selectable... I mounted a DPDT switch in the plastic panel which goes on the back of a VT100 20ma option and wired it so it either routed the signals through to the EIA port or shunted them off to the 20ma option... only needed to intercept 4 signal lines, if I remember correctly.. (or was it three). I still have the 'option' in a drawer at work... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrice at texoma.net Sun Aug 16 21:17:34 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35D792BE.E9A0B22E@texoma.net> I just bought one for $100.00. Turbo color slab, 16mb, 400mb, abd keyboard, 17" Trinitron, NeXt laser printer, adb sound box and all cables. The mouse was missing, the root password was lost and the feed roller ne3ed replacing on the printer. I got around the password, replaces the mouse and feed roller and I have $150.00 in my NeXt. If i could only find a NeXT dimension cube for the same price. James Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine > was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box > (NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) > > Tony > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam Jenkins [mailto:adam@merlin.net.au] > > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 2:31 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > > > > > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by > > being cheap. > > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, > > but it was also > > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is > > to seriously > > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to > > suggest that > > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of > > dominance (which > > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the > > S100) is an > > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer > > field. True, it > > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > > dominate architecture on teh market. > > > > >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the > > elements that got > > >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. > > >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is > > also a strong > > >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting > > Altairs as the > > >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled > > and would be > > >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP > > desktops, the > > >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) > > > > I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the > > collectors who > > wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their > > systems. I > > don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do > > really want a > > NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the > > hobbiest movement > > should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view > > is that the > > Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a > > computer, and so > > even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about > > one. (And yes, > > I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with > > the Lisa - > > people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored > > them in great > > numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh > > would have been > > as successful. First you have the great implementation of a > > grand concept > > that you can never own, and then you follow it with an > > affordable version. > > Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the > > hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the > > potential for personal computers to move into new markets. > > True, this was > > a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before > > the Altair, but > > the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my > > opinion, anyway. > > > > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which > > the collectors > > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's > > praises. You > > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. > > > > If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could > > finally get my NeXT. :) > > > > Adam. > > > > From archive at navix.net Sun Aug 16 23:13:47 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... Message-ID: <35D7ADFA.96B597CB@navix.net> I am wondering if anyone knows of a good source of Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer information. I just picked up a Pocket Computer (presumably the 'model 1', as it doesn't say Pocket Computer II, etc.). It is catalog 26-3501. Anyway, it came complete with the Printer/Cassette Interface unit.... which you snap the computer into, and the 'expansion unit' has cassette interface plugs, as well as a small calculator-like printer. Pretty snazzy little unit. Looks like it has never been used, and works like a charm. Also, I got the little guy for free!! Here's my question: It starts up to BASIC. And there are several modes of operation.... DEF, RUN, PRO, RESERVE. With a little tinkering, I have managed to figure out that the PRO mode is to program in BASIC programs. And, the RUN mode is to run them, etc. I am curious for full information on these modes. I also am wondering how to access the printer. Say, listing a BASIC program to it, or printing messages, etc., to the printer. On first guess, I figured it might use the LLIST and LPRINT type commands such as other early TRS-80 BASICs did (back in my days of adventure game making :-) .... but, I have been unable to get them to work. It seems whenever I enter those commands (or other incorrect commands), I get a 1................................ up on the screen, this seems to be some type of syntax error. I guess I just don't know much about this part of the TRS-80 timeline and am looking for any help. Accessing the printer, error codes, mode explainations, cassette commands in BASIC, etc. Thank you, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\| From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Aug 16 21:57:18 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... Message-ID: <005001bdc98a$c01c6c80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Try do search for information about the CASIO PB100 I believe they were the same machines. The PB100 was my first pocket computer, I sold it to buy a Sinclair ZX81 back in 1985 and I've missed it greatly since then. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, August 16, 1998 9:31 PM Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... >I am wondering if anyone knows of a good source of Radio Shack >TRS-80 Pocket Computer information. I just picked up a Pocket >Computer (presumably the 'model 1', as it doesn't say Pocket >Computer II, etc.). It is catalog 26-3501. > >Anyway, it came complete with the Printer/Cassette Interface >unit.... which you snap the computer into, and the 'expansion unit' >has cassette interface plugs, as well as a small calculator-like >printer. Pretty snazzy little unit. Looks like it has never been >used, and works like a charm. Also, I got the little guy for free!! >Here's my question: It starts up to BASIC. And there are several >modes of operation.... DEF, RUN, PRO, RESERVE. With a little >tinkering, I have managed to figure out that the PRO mode is to >program in BASIC programs. And, the RUN mode is to run them, etc. I >am curious for full information on these modes. I also am wondering >how to access the printer. Say, listing a BASIC program to it, or >printing messages, etc., to the printer. On first guess, I figured >it might use the LLIST and LPRINT type commands such as other early >TRS-80 BASICs did (back in my days of adventure game making :-) .... >but, I have been unable to get them to work. It seems whenever I >enter those commands (or other incorrect commands), I get a >1................................ up on the screen, this seems to be >some type of syntax error. > >I guess I just don't know much about this part of the TRS-80 >timeline and am looking for any help. Accessing the printer, error >codes, mode explainations, cassette commands in BASIC, etc. > >Thank you, > >CORD COSLOR > >-- > ____________________________________________________________ >| Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ >| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | >| on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | >| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | >|------------------------------------------------------------| | >| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | >|------------------------------------------------------------| | >| If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | >| chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | >|____________________________________________________________| | >\_____________________________________________________________\| > > From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 22:40:34 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How > > many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? - - - > When I learn to drive I intend to get a car with (as R.A. Pease said) > 'the right number of computers controlling the engine - none' ! I'm kind of surprised to hear that attitude around here! ;) I've never been able to touch a carburetor without f**ing it up. Fixing, let alone tuning one, seems to be black magic. EFI on the other hand is logical; if you can follow directions and run a DVM, you can fix it! And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and other mechanical parts by trial end error. And if you want to get hard-core and do your own mods, those "black boxes" are just embedded microprocessors with a relatively small program. Many are off the shelf chips w. documented instrution sets. A few talented & adventuresome folks have even reverse-hacked some proprietary ones; like Clark Steppler of Jim Wolf Technology who can make a Nissan EFI computer do almost anything. So back to the original question: cars are my main hobby, and I'm all for electronics. My 122 cubic-inch Nissan econo-box turns mid 14 second runs at the drag strip; akin to getting a MIP out of one of 'dem Altairs. Yee ha :) -wayne From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 22:51:40 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980816094048.03537d70@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote: >> I've got a bunch more that will probably be hitting the dumpster soon. > So... the obvious question for the shipping challenged, where would these > be starting from? They're in Dayton,Ohio. All the scrap ones are non-functional. Mostly just blown comm circuits (replace the 1488 / 1489 chips.) Given my time constraints, and the fact there are probably still tons of 'em out there, I can't mess with shipping entire units. But they're free for the taking. All so some LA120 & LA100 printers & parts and one LA36 logic board. -Wayne From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 23:58:58 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> Message-ID: >Can anyone give me some hints on restoring this machine? What's the best >way to clean mud off circuit boards and electronic components? I'm going >to check the power supply separate disconnected from the main unit, so will >it need a dummy load? Is there anything in particular I should check on >the Osborne 1? Well, I wouldn't recommend it for things such as the powersupply and drives, but I've been known to throw circuitboards and keyboards in a deepsink full of water to get them washed up (they were really bad), I then blotted off most of the water with a towel, and stuck them in a food dryer. Food Dryers of sufficent size are a great asset to the classic computer collecter. The can be used quite effectively to produce a low drying heat that shouldn't damage computer components but can be used to dry them out. Weh I use it, I stick stuff in there and come back a few hours later to remove it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 23:01:31 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! Message-ID: <199808170401.VAA22021@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 04:32 PM 8/16/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >One of the earlier better-known microcomputers was the Scelbi-8H (1973). >Scelbi stopped making hardware in 1974, and supposedly went into the >software and book-writing biz. I know he wrote a book on games for the >8008, but I don't know the year. > It was 1976 and the games were "Space Capture", "Hexpawn", and "Hangman". Of course the 8008 code was written earlier, in 1976 Scelbi was in the book biz as you said, not hardware. The book has 8080 code added for each game, looks like a translation mostly of the 8008 code with a few exceptions. The games were not real time, (of course). All the other magazines and newsletters sound interesting! At least "The Computer Hobbyist" I think I have found all of them. Hal Chamberlin had a vector CRT display, and "pong" was one of the games. Steve Ciarcia redesigned it in an early issue of BYTE. Will also be interested in the VCF 2 program on these! -Dave From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 23:03:38 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> At 11:40 PM 8/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: >> > A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >> > many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? > - - - >> When I learn to drive I intend to get a car with (as R.A. Pease said) >> 'the right number of computers controlling the engine - none' ! > >I'm kind of surprised to hear that attitude around here! ;) I've never >been able to touch a carburetor without f**ing it up. Fixing, let alone >tuning one, seems to be black magic. > >EFI on the other hand is logical; if you can follow directions and run a >DVM, you can fix it! So are carburators. You just have to study how they work and learn what part does what and when. I can make a Carter AFB do anything including sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, >many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and >other mechanical parts by trial end error. Yes but I can still swap a jet faster than I can burn an EPROM! The big advantage of the EFI is that it's more precise than a carburator, can monitor and adjust for more conditions and employs feed back sensors for even more precise control. > >And if you want to get hard-core and do your own mods, those "black boxes" >are just embedded microprocessors with a relatively small program. Many >are off the shelf chips w. documented instrution sets. A few talented & >adventuresome folks have even reverse-hacked some proprietary ones; like >Clark Steppler of Jim Wolf Technology who can make a Nissan EFI computer >do almost anything. > >So back to the original question: cars are my main hobby, and I'm all for >electronics. My 122 cubic-inch Nissan econo-box turns mid 14 second runs >at the drag strip; akin to getting a MIP out of one of 'dem Altairs. Yee >ha :) Yeah, just stuff in a P II mobo! Another motor-head! > > -wayne > > > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 00:37:41 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller and DFV-11A Controller In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 04:05:26 pm Message-ID: >Aha, so not a lot of logic. I think this rules out the Q-bus card being a >complete drive controller, and it probably makes it a bus interface/host >adapter for some other controller... OK, this makes sense, I was wondering how it could do anything with so few chips. >The beckman chips are almost certainly resistor networks - probably for >termination. They don't happen to have a number like 221331 on them, do they? They've got the following: Beckman 898-5-R220/330 7720 and Beckman 898-5-R220/330 7726 >> components on it that I can't identify. > >Post a description, and I'll see if I can identify them. Well if you've got a web browser, I just stuck the a photo of it on my web site. http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/images/MVC-010F.JPG I also posted the ARC DFV-11A controller at: http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/images/MVC-011F.JPG The connector is a 50-pin connector. I appologize for the quality of the pictures, and the slowness of the server they're on. Looks like I need to get some practice with my digital camera (OK, I admit, this is the main reason why I bought the camera). Not quite sure why they turned out that bad, as my test shots when I got it turned out a lot better. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 23:41:40 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: <199808170048.UAA20702@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: This will be great for dialing up McGill University as this is exactley the terminal required. No more tn3270, I can get on directly. Unfortunately my phone bill will be a bit high :-) Colan On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? > > The one I got 10 years ago was a combination 3274 terminal controller > and 3270/3278 terminal that spoke SNA for dialling up to an IBM SNA From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 23:42:27 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 00:48:38 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: DLV11-F Cable Message-ID: OK, I've read through the entry on the DLV11-F in the "Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook" (I love finally having some documentation). According to it this card supports either a 20ma current loop interface or EIA-standard lines, but doesn't include modem control. My first question is, am I correct in assuming that I can attach a VT100 to it with the proper serial cable? I know I could use the 20ma current loop, IF I had a VT100 with that interface. Anyway does anyone have the pinout for a BC01V-X or BC05C-X modem cable? My guess is that it's a 40-pin ribbon connector on one end and a DB25 connector on the other. Unfortunatly I don't seem to have the pinout for the 40-pin connector or I'd see about putting this together. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 00:16:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Microcomputer Digest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer > > newsletter. > > Wow, that is historic. Where can I find out more? Manny Lemas will be discussing it at VCF 2.0 during his talk (http://www.siconic.com/vcf/ml-bio.htm). The _Microcomputer Digest_ ran from July 1974 (made a mistake on the '73 date) to July 1976. I have a full run (photocopied) courtesy of Ray Holt, the co-editor (http://www.siconic.com/vcf/rh-bio.htm). > Thanks, I'll be there! Cool! See you there! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 00:19:00 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > But the Nicolet wasn't MPU-based, was it? There are plenty of games that > date back to the 60's (like the ever popular SpaceWar on the PDP-1), 50's > (Nim, tac-tac-toe, checkers), and I'd be astounded if there weren't > computer games in the 40's as well. No, I was just helping to point out that computer games existed long before Trek 80, even though we were talking about microcomputers :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From deker at digitaladdiction.com Mon Aug 17 01:07:27 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! > Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's the Hemi in? > And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, > >many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and > >other mechanical parts by trial end error. > > Yes but I can still swap a jet faster than I can burn an EPROM! The big > advantage of the EFI is that it's more precise than a carburator, can > monitor and adjust for more conditions and employs feed back sensors for > even more precise control. > Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark curve :) > Another motor-head! > > And one more. rob From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 17 01:09:19 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Oh, sheesh! I'm the source. I'm not afraid to let everyone know that I > have the Apple /// images available to anyone who wants them. Glad to hear it Sam! Just didn't know if the cat was supposed to be kept in the bag. :) [re: ShrinkIt] > The disk format is the same for DOS 3.3 and SOS and even ProDOS and Apple > Pascal. Its the filesystem that differs. You can read the data off of a > disk with one OS from any of the other OSes. So you can copy a SOS disk > with a DOS 3.3 copy program. Yup, I'm aware of that. I actually just used my A1020 drive to make .dsk images of my existing /// disks, as I also did with my Apple CP/M disks. > With the images I gave you, you simply need to unshrink them using > ShrinkIt on your ][+. The disks will then be good to go on your Apple ///. > Let me know if you're still having problems and I'll work you through it. I'm just lazy/short of time and don't feel like going through all of the stages. The version of ShrinkIt I was able to find seemed to only want to run on ProDOS, and that's where the major hassle lies. Seeing as I had been planning on attempting to write Apple disks with my Amiga 1020 drive, I thought it would be cool if I could write the ShrinkIt files directly or to a .dsk image on my Amiga as well. If I understood the ShrinkIt archive format, it might take less time to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk converter than it'd take to do everything through ProDOS. And considering my last experience with ProDOS, it'd be less prone to error. :) One of the major bottlenecks is my Hayes Micromodem IIe, which is currently my only means of getting data to the ][+. I'll get it done eventually, Sam, I just don't feel like facing ProDOS again. :) > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 17 01:15:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns - NOT! In-Reply-To: <35D5D3C1.9A13122F@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Larry Anderson wrote: > > Check out this article at ZDNet > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.html > > I don't think ZDNet will post my comments, as mine started with: > > Piracy YES. Commodore 64 NOT! Well, you'll be happy to know that ZDNet did post your comments, Larry. I saw them there last night. (I also saw that some people think the Atari/C64/Apple2 wars are still going. Sheesh!) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Aug 17 01:33:29 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Dana McLeod-Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Off for a few days... Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980816233327.00914d60@mail.jps.net> I'll be unsubscribed for a few days to get Linux up and running on my rebuilt workstation. I'll be back as soon as I get the dialup and E-mail client running. Nobody kill anyone while I'm gone, OK? ;-) May you always have sun to play in and money to play with. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 17 01:55:02 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an > > IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why > > you specify DOS 1.x? > > Because that's what mine came with. The Hyperion was intro'd at the > Spring 1982 Comdex, which I think beat Compaq's intro, so natch the > world's first portable DOS machine is going to come with MS-DOS 1.x. OK. I wasn't aware of the exact timing of the machine's introduction, nor do I know the timeline of the various DOS versions. I suspected a 1982 date for the Hyperion, though, because there was a blurb about it in the April 1983 issue of Computing Now! magazine, where they compared 50 systems. Somebody's web page had a "late 80s" date which I knew to be bogus. Did the Hyperion beat Compaq's intro? And if so, how come Compaq generally gets the credit? > > No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's > > internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? > > I take it you don't have the original docs or software? Mine came with > some software called IN:TOUCH that uses the modem. I bought both units at the Salvation Army, for $10 CDN each. As you know, the Salvation Army is very bad at keeping bits and pieces of systems together, even if they do arrive at the store together. So no, I don't have docs, disks, or the carrying cases, I only have the machines themselves. > I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few > tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); Do I need to specify something in the config.sys to get this running? Just booting up bog-standard MS-DOS and typing "c:" doesn't get me anywhere. > the connectors in the back from left to right are: composite video, phone, > line, optional accoustic coupler, serial, parallel, expansion; I had figured as much from the pictograms on my second Hyperion unit. The first one had labels that were off-center and didn't really look the way they were supposed to (the picture for the composite video had three circles and I took that to mean RGB, and there were three unlabeled phone jacks beneath that, so I thought they might be for some bizarre RGB monitor connection). How fast is the modem? 300 baud? > display modes: 320x200, 640x200, 320x250, 640x250. Are the x250 modes normal for the PC? > -- Doug Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 17 02:29:22 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > (the WCS - Writeable Control Store I mentioned), so you can redefine the > > > > > > > > > Unlike just about every other machine of that time, there is no text > > > mode. However, the designers wanted it to be as fast at displaying text > > > as machines with said hardware text mode, so they designed a 'raster op > > > machine' - what we'd now call a blitter - to handle screen updates. > > > > Sounds like an Amiga 1000. ;) ;) ;) ^^ ^^ ^^ I thought that three winking smileys would be enough, but apparently not. > The Amiga never had user-writeable microcode AFAIK. All of them were > 68000-based. On the PERQ you can redefine the CPU instruction set if you > want to. Yup, I know. Note that I cut everything about the user-writable microcode, leaving only "Writable Control Store". The Amiga 1000 also has something called "Writable Control Store" (WCS), but for a different purpose. I also selectively left in the bits about the PERQ not having a text mode, and about it having a blitter. I have a feeling my little attempt at humour got me mistaken for a rabid "Amiga-against-the-world" religious fanatic. I like my Amigas, but my participation on this list almost guarantees I'm not one of the nut-brigade. > -tony Is there anywhere where I can see what the PERQ's OS looks like, Tony? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 02:37:11 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX References: Message-ID: <35D7DD9E.3AE07A50@bbtel.com> Doug Spence wrote: > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > At 08:10 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's > > >been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be > > > > I slid the cover back, nothing there, which is what I assumed, since I saw > > no ports sticking out the back. > > This reminds me. I've got a Tandy 1000EX with a 1200baud modem card in > it, but I've not yet figured out how to get the modem to work. > > I tried it with Commo (?) and a couple of other programs that I scrounged > from BBSes. I played with IRQ settings and stuff, and eventually got SOME > kind of response from the modem, but never managed to get it to dial out. > > One interesting thing to note about the modem is that it has to be the top > card in the stack. It doesn't have pins on it to pass the buss through to > another card. > > Another interesting thing is that my machine's RF shielding seems to have > been largely composed of metalicized cardboard, which was roughly ripped > open over the expansion bus. (Ugly) > > > Funny, even the CoCo series had a serial port on the back. > > Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing > this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed > seeing the port. :) > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ I may be getting a Tandy 1000HX in prime condition, possibly loaded with the memory and hard drive and serial card. Anyone possibly have any interest? It's a friend's machine and I need to work a trade on it with her and the T100HX will be a part of the sale/trade. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 17 02:41:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > Did the Hyperion beat Compaq's intro? And if so, how come Compaq > generally gets the credit? According to my arm-chair research, yes, Hyperion was first. Compaq gets the glory because they're American, were much more PC-compatible, and because they kicked the Hyperion's butt in terms of market success. It may be more complicated than that. The Hyperion was intro'd in 1982 by Dynalogic, but Dynalogic was then acquired by Bytec. My manual was published by Bytec in 1983 (rev 4). > > I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few > > tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); > > Do I need to specify something in the config.sys to get this running? > Just booting up bog-standard MS-DOS and typing "c:" doesn't get me > anywhere. This is probably a feature of their version of MS-DOS. In those days, DOS was tweaked for each machine. > How fast is the modem? 300 baud? Damn, you made me get out of my arm chair. 300 baud. > > display modes: 320x200, 640x200, 320x250, 640x250. > > Are the x250 modes normal for the PC? Nope. The Hyperion was special (thus its downfall). -- Doug From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 17 05:36:44 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <35D770CC.98C0A85C@interserv.com> from "will emerson" at Aug 16, 98 07:52:44 pm Message-ID: <199808171036.GAA23034@shell.monmouth.com> > > Hmmm.... I remember a couple of incidents in the computer room, where > TU78's took up smoking, on one occaision prompting the system operator > to push the BIG RED BUTTON! Needless to say, a great time was had by > all (It's a bit of a long story)! FWIW, in the other incident, the op on > duty flipped the breaker, opened the back of the cabinet, and literally > BLEW the flames out (Yup, he got an award for that one....). > > Will Geez... I personally blew out the flames on a pair of TU45's. (One of the worst tape drives ever designed by Pertec.) I've never seen the TU77 or 78's flame. Both TU45's flamed during servo adjustments at Fort Monmouth when I was a DEC tech. Bill From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 17 05:40:13 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: VT100 w/Q-Bus Backplane In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 02:26:46 pm Message-ID: <199808171040.GAA24078@shell.monmouth.com> > > OK, this is starting to get interesting. I've got a box labled VT100 > boards, and it's definitely part of the guts of this terminal (the terminal > works as a terminal). > > The terminal has had it's front nameplate removed (probably doesn't mean > anything, they were all this way). On the back is a Digital tag declaring > it to be a VT100-AA. Next to that is a ARC (Agency Records Control, Inc. > of Bryon, Texas) declaring to be a Model ART 01. ARC did insurance office software on both PDP11's and PC's and IBM series 1's. They had their own OS for 11/03's and 11/23's. They used the Lark drives on an SMD controller for fixed+removable storage. I fixed them after I left DEC and ended up doing a short stint at TRW. BIll From bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 09:10:13 1998 From: bobstek at ix14.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market In-Reply-To: <199808170702.AAA26711@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <000101bdc9e8$c066cc40$e2083ccc@mycroft> Hey, Tony - Give me some time to make copies, and the SOL docs will be yours. Should I assume you also want the actual kit construction details, or will the theory of operation, schematics, etc. be sufficient? Yesterday was my first visit to the MIT flea market, too. Did you meet Allison? I bought a great new Integrand cabinet/power supply from her. I think I saw everything you bought except for the Osborne Executive (which I would have bought had I seen it first!) - I just have more self-restraint (or perhaps less money ) Perhaps we could go together in September. It may not be VCF 2.0, but it's what we got! Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From charlesii at nwonline.net Mon Aug 17 07:41:20 1998 From: charlesii at nwonline.net (Charles Oblender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: odd ball scanner Message-ID: <35D824F0.1E8B@nwonline.net> I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could find a program to use this thing? I know this isn't quite 10 years old but in '99 it will be so could we bend the rules this time? From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 17 08:14:43 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808171036.GAA23034@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill/Carolyn Pechter" at Aug 17, 98 06:36:44 am Message-ID: <199808171314.JAA28118@user2.infinet.com> > I've never seen the TU77 or 78's flame. > > Bill I've only ever seen an RK07 PSU and 11/24 PSU erupt in smoke, no flames, but the operators at Ohio State University's DEC-20 lab told me about an incident. For those that don't remember, computers used to have log books for maintenance records (I have log books for a couple of -8's and a couple of VAXen). A friend of mine noticed the following in the log book... (dates simulated for effect) Date Time Initials Action 06/03/81 11:05 jfs TU-77 catches fire 06/03/81 11:08 jfs TU-77 puts itself out 06/03/81 13:23 jfs TU-77 won't load tapes, DEC field service called. When the call was placed, it went something like this... Operator: Our tape drive caught fire. Field Servoid: Was it a TU-77? Op: yes. FS: OK. I know what to bring. One board swap later, all was well. Apparently, it was a common problem. At the place I worked, we never had our TU-78 catch fire; Pertec must have learned something by then. -ethan From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Aug 17 08:48:56 1998 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 Message-ID: <46c0363a.35d834ca@aol.com> A recent storm blew a tree over and into my garage. It so happens that I had an computer near the spot where the tree went through the garage. Although not physically damaged by the tree, there was a lot of water damage to the computer and especially the monitor. Being an older machine, I am not sure how to place a value on it for insurance purposes. If anyone out there has seen anything recent on the machine as to what they are selling for, I would appreciate sharing of that info. The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy, and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and network card. The monitor is an IBM Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs. I am not trying to come up with some inflated value for this thing to take advantage of the insurance company, just a reasonable fair value to settle the claim. The machine worked fine before I parked it in the garage. I know that there is probably cases where the machines have just been thrown or given away, but would like to get some compensation for it, if nothing else for what was a working 19" color monitor. Thanks in advance for any helpful info. Mike Thompson mzthompson@aol.com From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 17 09:26:56 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808171314.JAA28118@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 17, 98 09:14:43 am Message-ID: <199808171426.KAA20767@shell.monmouth.com> > I've only ever seen an RK07 PSU and 11/24 PSU erupt in smoke, no flames, but > the operators at Ohio State University's DEC-20 lab told me about an incident. > > For those that don't remember, computers used to have log books for > maintenance records (I have log books for a couple of -8's and a couple of > VAXen). A friend of mine noticed the following in the log book... > (dates simulated for effect) > > Date Time Initials Action > 06/03/81 11:05 jfs TU-77 catches fire > 06/03/81 11:08 jfs TU-77 puts itself out > 06/03/81 13:23 jfs TU-77 won't load tapes, DEC field service called. > > When the call was placed, it went something like this... > > Operator: Our tape drive caught fire. > > Field Servoid: Was it a TU-77? > > Op: yes. > > FS: OK. I know what to bring. > > One board swap later, all was well. Apparently, it was a common problem. At > the place I worked, we never had our TU-78 catch fire; Pertec must have learned > something by then. > > -ethan > > Must've been the defective solid state relays... they ECO'd them out around '85 or so... I seem to remember this as a manditory ECO. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 17 11:31:02 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: uVax Question In-Reply-To: <7453@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808171437.JAA18022@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: I just wanna thank Seth and Allison for advising me on the uVax I was contemplating. The guy wanted $75 (which seemed reasonable), but I decided not to enter the VAX arena at this time. I have way to many things on the stove as it is. Besides, after much soul searching, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not really a VMS kinda guy. BTW-- I met Tim Hotze IRL this weekend. He's a nice kid. But since he's moving overseas, he can't bring all of the hardware he wants with him! Bummer. He'll have fun with the Apple ]['s I got for him, though. L8r. Jeff From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 17 09:32:36 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Aug 13, 97 10:16:08 pm Message-ID: <199808171432.KAA29526@user2.infinet.com> Jason writes: > Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 Try an ST-251-1. It's the voice-coil version of the ST-251 and clocks in at 28ms. You can't have mine. I use them on uVAXen. -ethan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 09:44:54 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 In-Reply-To: <46c0363a.35d834ca@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > A recent storm blew a tree over and into my garage. It so happens > that I had an computer near the spot where the tree went through > the garage. Although not physically damaged by the tree, there was <...> > > The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy, > and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and > network card. I guess whatever quote you get from each of us is going to be rather subjective as we guess what the box is worth based on our own experiences and level of interest in the IBM RT Model 135. I would suggest you think about what you would find this box selling for at a flea market or on the Internet, or perhaps check the internet for previous offerings using Deja News. With such a relatively obscure machine (in terms of hobbyists who would have one) you'll probably not find many references. So if not, you'll just have to think what someone at a flea market would typically be selling such a box for given its age and technology. You'll have to price it based on its actual contemporary usefulness and thus factor in depreciation (ie. its obviously not worth the original purchase price). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 17 08:59:39 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808171538.LAA05076@charity.harvard.net> Yeah. All the docs would be cool. The thing that really bugs me is that I dont remember how to boot one :) Sure did meet Allison, she's still got a Compupro RAM card floating around somewhere for me. Since we work mere blocks from each other, it shouldn't be tough to get it from her. We can meet up at the Sept flea somewhere, I'll have my PDP collecting girlfriend in tow. I actually want to entertain the idea of maybe joining up with the west coast folks to see if we can get a VCF together for us east coasters. Hell, cant be any worse than running a Japanese Animation or Sci-Fi convention (both of which I have done in the past). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Stek [mailto:bobstek@ix14.ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 10:10 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market > > > Hey, Tony - > > Give me some time to make copies, and the SOL docs will > be yours. Should I > assume you also want the actual kit construction details, or > will the theory > of operation, schematics, etc. be sufficient? > > Yesterday was my first visit to the MIT flea market, > too. Did you meet > Allison? I bought a great new Integrand cabinet/power supply > from her. I > think I saw everything you bought except for the Osborne > Executive (which I > would have bought had I seen it first!) - I just have more > self-restraint > (or perhaps less money ) Perhaps we could go together in > September. It > may not be VCF 2.0, but it's what we got! > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 17 10:01:02 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market In-Reply-To: <199808171538.LAA05076@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 17, 98 09:59:39 am Message-ID: <199808171501.LAA11229@shell.monmouth.com> > > Yeah. All the docs would be cool. The thing that really bugs me is that > I dont remember how to boot one :) > > Sure did meet Allison, she's still got a Compupro RAM card floating > around somewhere for me. Since we work mere blocks from each other, it > shouldn't be tough to get it from her. > > We can meet up at the Sept flea somewhere, I'll have my PDP collecting > girlfriend in tow. > > I actually want to entertain the idea of maybe joining up with the west > coast folks to see if we can get a VCF together for us east coasters. > Hell, cant be any worse than running a Japanese Animation or Sci-Fi > convention (both of which I have done in the past). > > Tony We should consider doing it with the Trenton Computer Festival http://www.tcf.net which was full of old stuff in the good old days -- but it's been moving to newer stuff (and PC's) lately. I haven't seen an 8 or 11 there for a couple of years. I've seen Sun3/4's, DecStations, some old PC stuff in addition to the current stuff. Bill From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 17 09:41:27 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <199808152204.PAA00255@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980817094127.00c96100@pc> At 05:37 PM 8/15/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >$12K too much for you to pay for an Altair? OK, here's a guy that made a >$25 Altair clone: And don't forget, the C source and Windows executables to Altair and IMSAI emulators are available on my web site. I've put them there in the hopes of attracting someone who'd like to verify their emulation, supply source code to bootstraps or example programs, add an emulated ASR-33 for "reading" pretend tapes and viewing output, sound effects, etc. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 17 10:16:13 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980817101613.2d5fdc5c@intellistar.net> At 02:07 AM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > >> sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! >> >Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's >the Hemi in? A 1970 Superbird what else! Big engine, big car, NO computers! I also have a '70 Dodge Challenger RT convertible with a 440 6 pak. :-) These are the remains of my car collecting days. > >> And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, >> >many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and >> >other mechanical parts by trial end error. >> >> Yes but I can still swap a jet faster than I can burn an EPROM! The big >> advantage of the EFI is that it's more precise than a carburator, can >> monitor and adjust for more conditions and employs feed back sensors for >> even more precise control. >> >Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark >curve :) Yes and the transmission shift points in some cars. > >> Another motor-head! >> > >And one more. They're everywhere! Joe > >rob > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 17 10:44:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: catch of the day! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980817104408.25078cf6@intellistar.net> This was a slow week. Not that I didn't find a lot but I was running out of money! I did pick up *SEVEN* HP 64100 Logic Developement Systems. And a HP 8180 pattern generator with a 8181 extender with all the cables and manuals. I passed up a HP Touch Screen II and a HP 9826 and several HP 9000 300 series computers. The HP 64100 LDS dates from the early '80s but HP is still making a similar machine. These look like an oversize RS model 1s with a tape drive to the right of the monitor and a opening to the right of the keyboard. The opening is used to install an optional EPROM burner socket. The main unit has slots for 9 expansion cards for logic analyzers, various CPU emulators, extra memory, etc. I will probably keep one, the rest are up for grabs if anyone wants them. I will charge a reasonable price to cover the cost of packing and taking to UPS (Gag! I hate that place!) But be warned they are bigger than a model 1 and weigh about 75 pounds bare. They're located in Florida so you can figure out shipping. I don't have any of the plug in emulators, etc but I do have two boxs of manuals. Most/ all of these will be scrapped if no one wants them, they're too big to keep around. Joe From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 10:57:43 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808171432.KAA29526@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35D852F6.32EFAA45@bbtel.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Jason writes: > > Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > > > > ThAnX, > > -- > > -Jason > > (roblwill@usaor.net) > > ICQ#-1730318 > > Try an ST-251-1. It's the voice-coil version of the ST-251 and clocks in > at 28ms. You can't have mine. I use them on uVAXen. He needs an IDE and IIRC the St251 and 251-1 are MFM. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 17 11:11:32 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <35D852F6.32EFAA45@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 17, 98 10:57:43 am Message-ID: <199808171611.MAA01354@user2.infinet.com> > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Jason writes: > > > Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > > > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > > > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > > > > > > ThAnX, > > > -- > > > -Jason > > > (roblwill@usaor.net) > > > ICQ#-1730318 > > > > Try an ST-251-1. It's the voice-coil version of the ST-251 and clocks in > > at 28ms. You can't have mine. I use them on uVAXen. > > He needs an IDE and IIRC the St251 and 251-1 are MFM. Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for ROM burning. IIRC, WD made 20Mb and 40Mb XT IDE before moving on to AT IDE. Commodore even designed-in an XT-IDE port on their A2091 and A590 disk controllers for the A2000 and A500, respectively. The A590 did ship with 20Mb XT drives; the A2091 did not have the 40 pin connector soldered in place. It does work; I have retrofitted one. They are slow. And, yes, the ST251/251-1 are both MFM. I use them on ancient DEC hardware. -ethan From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Aug 17 07:48:20 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808171432.KAA29526@user2.infinet.com> References: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Aug 13, 97 10:16:08 pm Message-ID: <199808171624.MAA20928@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:32:36 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Ethan Dicks > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K Jason's writing snipped... > > Try an ST-251-1. It's the voice-coil version of the ST-251 and clocks in > at 28ms. You can't have mine. I use them on uVAXen. Ethan, this hd ST251-1 is equally bad and it uses stepper not voice coil. Can see the stepper itself. Also this hd have lot of reliablity problems and very touchy especially handling, very loud noisy. Compared to ST251 series, ST351A/X series is pretty sturdy and very low powered. But this ST351A/X is easiest to find than this Miniscribe XT ide 8051A is voice coil and that is all I know that is only one that does XT ide or AT. > > -ethan Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From g at kurico.com Mon Aug 17 11:51:32 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Mindset disks In-Reply-To: <19980805195910.0ca2eb14.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: A while back you were looking for someone who knew a way to make copies of your Mindset disks. Were you successful? I just recently acquired a Mindset but I don't have any software for it. What type of software was available? Do you know where I might find a mouse for it? TIA George From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Aug 17 08:01:17 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808171611.MAA01354@user2.infinet.com> References: <35D852F6.32EFAA45@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 17, 98 10:57:43 am Message-ID: <199808171637.MAA20993@commercial.cgocable.net> Snipped! > > > > He needs an IDE and IIRC the St251 and 251-1 are MFM. > > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for ROM > burning. IIRC, WD made 20Mb and 40Mb XT IDE before moving on to AT IDE. > Commodore even designed-in an XT-IDE port on their A2091 and A590 disk > controllers for the A2000 and A500, respectively. The A590 did ship with > 20Mb XT drives; the A2091 did not have the 40 pin connector soldered in place. > It does work; I have retrofitted one. They are slow. > > And, yes, the ST251/251-1 are both MFM. I use them on ancient DEC hardware. > > -ethan Not only that on amigas and tandys for those XT IDE drives... Zenith Eazy PC (I own that one, horrible pc shudder!) Olivetti series (appox 15" monitor either color or mono) in all in one piece odd casings rather like above and lot of XT machines that was still sold in early '90's had XT IDE hd. Thankfully, very short lived and not so common for those oddball boxens that requires XT IDE! :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 17 12:11:53 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 Message-ID: For something this old, (and worthless?) you can't really put a price on it. I have one also, but really has no value to anyone but myself. $100 maybe? If you don't keep the machine, i sure could use a keyboard... In a message dated 98-08-17 09:51:22 EDT, you write: >The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy, >and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and > network card. >The monitor is an IBM Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs. >I am not trying to come up with some inflated value for this thing >to take advantage of the insurance company, just a reasonable fair > value to settle the claim. From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 17 12:30:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Aug 17, 98 01:11:53 pm Message-ID: <199808171730.NAA02672@user2.infinet.com> > In a message dated 98-08-17 09:51:22 EDT, you write: > > >The computer is an IBM RT Model 135, Type 6150. It has a 5 1/4 floppy, > >and two hard drives (100MB & 300MB), plus the usual video and > > network card. > > >The monitor is an IBM Model/Type 5081-19, 19" color with RGB inputs. > > >I am not trying to come up with some inflated value for this thing > >to take advantage of the insurance company, just a reasonable fair > > value to settle the claim. When I was broken into, I was told for the computers that are no longer made, you can use the value of something that _is_ available to estimate "replacement cost" (if you have that kind of insurance). In 1990, you couldn't buy a new PET (I lost two :-P ) , so I estimated based on the value of a C-64, the closest available approximation, $100 at the time. I documented all of this and they paid based on that documentation. I live with someone that passed her insurance certification test in Missouri. She says that actuaries despise computers. They don't conform to any other goods in depreciation, and exact replacements aren't available a few months after the original item sells. For a couple of my computers, I xeroxed the boxes and the insurance company applied an arbitrary deduction based on date of purchase. If I replaced the item, they paid the rest of the cost of the item. In all cases, the amount I was paid was in excess of what if would really cost to drive down to the corner computer store and buy used, but it was the amount that the insurance company itself determined that it was worth based on original MSRP and age. Who am I to argue. It made up for getting screwed on three loaded toolboxes that valued out at about $20 each. I don't know if any of this helps you with your 6150 RT, but you should at least be able to get something for the 19" monitor. Damn shame. I remember playing with one of those years ago. I thought that IBM was coming around in the desktop market. Right about then, IIRC, the clones hit big. -ethan From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:43:30 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers Message-ID: <9807179034.AA903404636@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark >>curve :) > > Yes and the transmission shift points in some cars. What?!? Took me a couple of minutes to work out what you're even talking about, there. These (mostly non-electronic) analogue computers were quite popular in larger cars (in the UK, anything with more than 2.5 litres - 150 cu. in. - of engine) in the early 'seventies, but they were inefficient and unreliable and I never use them if I can avoid it... I refer of course to automatic gearboxes. If you want control over the transmission shift points, get a manual gearbox with electric overdrive. Every time! (Hmmm. Thinks... I don't think I've seen an electric overdrive on a car made later than 1980. But automatic gearboxes are still alive and kicking. It's a strange world...) Philip. From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 17 12:44:36 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808171624.MAA20928@commercial.cgocable.net> from "jpero@pop.cgocable.net" at Aug 17, 98 12:48:20 pm Message-ID: <199808171744.NAA02924@user2.infinet.com> Jason writes; > Ethan, this hd ST251-1 is equally bad and it uses stepper not voice > coil. Can see the stepper itself. Also this hd have lot of > reliablity problems and very touchy especially handling, very > loud noisy. I sit corrected. I had thought that the 28ms version used a voice coil and the 40ms version used a stepper. That is not the case. As for noise, yes. It's noisy by today's standards. All of the old drives were touchy WRT handling. I didn't consider it more so than any other 8 year old drive. > Compared to ST251 series, ST351A/X series is pretty sturdy and very > low powered. But this ST351A/X is easiest to find than this > Miniscribe XT ide 8051A is voice coil and that is all I know that is > only one that does XT ide or AT. I have never run across the ST351A/X series. I don't know how common they were; I wasn't into PCs in 1989, just VAXen and Amigas. They do, however, use steppers (28ms). -ethan From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 17 13:02:52 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 16, 98 12:50:47 pm Message-ID: <199808171802.LAA07471@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1902 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/7433dbc3/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 13:07:46 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 In-Reply-To: <199808171730.NAA02672@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > When I was broken into, I was told for the computers that are no longer > made, you can use the value of something that _is_ available to estimate > "replacement cost" (if you have that kind of insurance). In 1990, you > couldn't buy a new PET (I lost two :-P ) , so I estimated based on the > value of a C-64, the closest available approximation, $100 at the time. > I documented all of this and they paid based on that documentation. Someone broke into your place and carted off two PETs? What nincompoops. I hope they at least dropped one on their foot before the clerk at the pawn shop told them to get lost. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 17 14:14:47 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <9807179034.AA903406616@compsci.powertech.co.uk> A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to share it with you... This weekend I finally got my Tektronix 4052 graphics computer loading and saving on a Commodore 8050 disk drive. The problems: Commodore's weird handling of IEEE-488 protocol, especially with OPEN and CLOSE. This requires bit 7 (the 128s bit) to be set when sending a secondary address; bit 4 - usually the 16s bit of the address - tells the drive whether it's an open or a close. This was easily solved - the Tektronix WBYTE statement gives full control over such things. But the Tek is designed as a tape based machine. You FIND a file on the tape and type OLD to load it. The machine then resets and loads the program. On a disk, you WBYTE @40,240: some bytes to specify the file name. But if you type OLD @8,0: it asserts IFC during the reset, thus causing the drive to have forgotten all about your program by the time it comes to load it... So I toyed with the idea of cutting the IFC line in a suitable cable. But then I came across the APPEND statement. "APPEND @I/O address:line number" loads a program without resetting, renumbering it to start at the specified line. Neat. So I now have a program to display the directory of the disk, prompt you for a filename and APPEND the file on the end of itself. It then performs an INIT (initialise variables, IFC and things) and drops into the program. Saving is easier, so less automated. You type something like WBYTE @40,241:48,58,80,82,79,71,82,65,77,32,78,65,77,69,-13 WBYTE @63: SAVE @8,1 WBYTE @40,225,63: Not perfect, but it works. If anyone has an 8050 at the VCF, I'll happily demonstrate! Now, has anyone got a PET hard drive? And, for that matter, has anyone got a MUPET system for sale? Philip. From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 17 15:45:40 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <7747@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808171852.NAA19481@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to >share it with you... Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive: 1. They're really common (at least, here they are) 2. You can get floppy, Winchester, or Tape 3. IEEE implementation is a little more 'standard' But then again, mebbe you *need* to read commo disks with this thing. Either way; well done, guy. Don 'cha love twiddling those bits? In this neck of the woods anyway, Commodore IEEE related 'stuff' is pretty scarce . . . Jeff From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 18 13:52:41 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808171902.PAA01840@gate.usaor.net> > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for ROM > burning. IIRC, WD made 20Mb and 40Mb XT IDE before moving on to AT IDE. > Commodore even designed-in an XT-IDE port on their A2091 and A590 disk > controllers for the A2000 and A500, respectively. The A590 did ship with > 20Mb XT drives; the A2091 did not have the 40 pin connector soldered in place. > It does work; I have retrofitted one. They are slow. > > And, yes, the ST251/251-1 are both MFM. I use them on ancient DEC hardware. > > -ethan > > I believe the Tandy 1000 TL/2 and TL/3 (not sure about the TL/2) also had a built-on XT-IDE controller. The TL that I have has a HardCard. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 17 15:14:18 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808171611.MAA01354@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35D88F1A.B794C9AD@texoma.net> Tandy used XT IDE on the Tandy 1000 series called a "Smartdrive". i think it was ST157A/X for 16/8 bit switchable. There was a controller card with onboard bios for controlling the drives. James > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 17 15:31:54 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808172137.RAA23015@charity.harvard.net> > > > > Yeah. All the docs would be cool. The thing that really > bugs me is that > > I dont remember how to boot one :) > > > > Sure did meet Allison, she's still got a Compupro RAM card floating > > around somewhere for me. Since we work mere blocks from > each other, it > > shouldn't be tough to get it from her. > > > > We can meet up at the Sept flea somewhere, I'll have my PDP > collecting > > girlfriend in tow. > > > > I actually want to entertain the idea of maybe joining up > with the west > > coast folks to see if we can get a VCF together for us east > coasters. > > Hell, cant be any worse than running a Japanese Animation or Sci-Fi > > convention (both of which I have done in the past). > > > > Tony > > We should consider doing it with the Trenton Computer Festival > http://www.tcf.net which was full of old stuff in the good > old days -- but > it's been moving to newer stuff (and PC's) lately. I haven't seen an > 8 or 11 there for a couple of years. > > I've seen Sun3/4's, DecStations, some old PC stuff in > addition to the current > stuff. > > Bill > If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, Its alot of work. Tony From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 17 15:55:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <9807179034.AA903406616@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980817155507.460f6dc4@intellistar.net> I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. How close is it to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for the 4041 a few months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know anything about the keybaords for the 4041? It uses a strange 4 pin connector. I've heard that you can operate them from a terminal. Does anyone know anything about this? Joe At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 GMT, you wrote: >A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to >share it with you... > >This weekend I finally got my Tektronix 4052 graphics computer loading >and saving on a Commodore 8050 disk drive. The problems: > >Commodore's weird handling of IEEE-488 protocol, especially with OPEN >and CLOSE. This requires bit 7 (the 128s bit) to be set when sending a >secondary address; bit 4 - usually the 16s bit of the address - tells >the drive whether it's an open or a close. > >This was easily solved - the Tektronix WBYTE statement gives full >control over such things. > >But the Tek is designed as a tape based machine. You FIND a file on the >tape and type OLD to load it. The machine then resets and loads the >program. > >On a disk, you WBYTE @40,240: some bytes to specify the file name. But >if you type OLD @8,0: it asserts IFC during the reset, thus causing the >drive to have forgotten all about your program by the time it comes to >load it... > >So I toyed with the idea of cutting the IFC line in a suitable cable. >But then I came across the APPEND statement. "APPEND @I/O address:line >number" loads a program without resetting, renumbering it to start at >the specified line. Neat. > >So I now have a program to display the directory of the disk, prompt you >for a filename and APPEND the file on the end of itself. It then >performs an INIT (initialise variables, IFC and things) and drops into >the program. > >Saving is easier, so less automated. You type something like >WBYTE @40,241:48,58,80,82,79,71,82,65,77,32,78,65,77,69,-13 >WBYTE @63: >SAVE @8,1 >WBYTE @40,225,63: > >Not perfect, but it works. If anyone has an 8050 at the VCF, I'll >happily demonstrate! > >Now, has anyone got a PET hard drive? And, for that matter, has anyone >got a MUPET system for sale? > >Philip. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 17 15:58:56 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <199808171852.NAA19481@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> References: <7747@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980817155856.460f32e8@intellistar.net> At 01:45 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >>A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to >>share it with you... > > > >Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive: Will these use HP drives? Has anybody tried using one on a Tek or PET? Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:07:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 16, 98 11:40:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/f3c7a6d5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:13:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller and DFV-11A Controller In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 09:37:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1057 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/18a5b530/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 13:25:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 17, 98 03:29:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/2f98e236/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 14:44:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Help with value of IBM RT-6150 In-Reply-To: <46c0363a.35d834ca@aol.com> from "Mzthompson@aol.com" at Aug 17, 98 09:48:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/feb0599a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 15:03:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: <9807179034.AA903404636@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Aug 17, 98 06:43:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1962 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/45255c02/attachment.ksh From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 17 16:28:26 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <199808172230.SAA29751@charity.harvard.net> Hmmm... Is the 4046 the SCSI Floppy Disk/Hard Disk rack mountable unit? Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:55 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Minor Tektronix success story. > > > I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general > purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. > How close is it > to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for > the 4041 a few > months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know > anything about > the keybaords for the 4041? It uses a strange 4 pin > connector. I've heard > that you can operate them from a terminal. Does anyone know > anything about > this? > > Joe > > At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 GMT, you wrote: > >A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I > wanted to > >share it with you... > > > >This weekend I finally got my Tektronix 4052 graphics > computer loading > >and saving on a Commodore 8050 disk drive. The problems: > > > >Commodore's weird handling of IEEE-488 protocol, especially > with OPEN > >and CLOSE. This requires bit 7 (the 128s bit) to be set > when sending a > >secondary address; bit 4 - usually the 16s bit of the > address - tells > >the drive whether it's an open or a close. > > > >This was easily solved - the Tektronix WBYTE statement gives full > >control over such things. > > > >But the Tek is designed as a tape based machine. You FIND a > file on the > >tape and type OLD to load it. The machine then resets and loads the > >program. > > > >On a disk, you WBYTE @40,240: some bytes to specify the file > name. But > >if you type OLD @8,0: it asserts IFC during the reset, thus > causing the > >drive to have forgotten all about your program by the time > it comes to > >load it... > > > >So I toyed with the idea of cutting the IFC line in a > suitable cable. > >But then I came across the APPEND statement. "APPEND @I/O > address:line > >number" loads a program without resetting, renumbering it to > start at > >the specified line. Neat. > > > >So I now have a program to display the directory of the > disk, prompt you > >for a filename and APPEND the file on the end of itself. It then > >performs an INIT (initialise variables, IFC and things) and > drops into > >the program. > > > >Saving is easier, so less automated. You type something like > >WBYTE @40,241:48,58,80,82,79,71,82,65,77,32,78,65,77,69,-13 > >WBYTE @63: > >SAVE @8,1 > >WBYTE @40,225,63: > > > >Not perfect, but it works. If anyone has an 8050 at the VCF, I'll > >happily demonstrate! > > > >Now, has anyone got a PET hard drive? And, for that matter, > has anyone > >got a MUPET system for sale? > > > >Philip. > > > > > From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 17 18:42:48 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <7761@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808172149.QAA20398@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> I dunno. I was thinking more in terms of hardware availability, and actual adherence to the IEEE standard. I used to play with GPIB alot, but that was some years ago . . . Jeff At 03:58 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:45 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 07:14 PM 8/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>A minor success story compared with some I read here, but I wanted to >>>share it with you... >> >> >> >>Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive: > > Will these use HP drives? Has anybody tried using one on a Tek or PET? > > Joe > From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 17 16:58:08 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market In-Reply-To: <199808172137.RAA23015@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 17, 98 04:31:54 pm Message-ID: <199808172158.RAA21532@shell.monmouth.com> > If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to > lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, Its alot of > work. > > Tony > The nice thing about the Trenton setup is the Amateur Computer Group of NJ (ACGNJ) has already got the site, classrooms, busses, parking done... They've been running this computer festival for over 20 years and it gets about 20,000 people over three days. The festival started back in the Pre CP/M days and is a great source of electronic parts and clone hardware (and was a great source of PDP8's and 11's and Vaxes in the early days. ACGNJ is always looking for speakers, special interest groups (CP/M and Rainbow and AppleII still meet at TCF). Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 16:34:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <9807179034.AA903406616@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Aug 17, 98 07:14:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/624a7a41/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 16:37:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <199808171852.NAA19481@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 17, 98 01:45:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 830 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/76e018f2/attachment.ksh From manney at lrbcg.com Mon Aug 17 18:09:44 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available Message-ID: <01bdca34$1f1630a0$2d28a2ce@laptop> I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? manney@lrbcg.com "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 17:52:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808171611.MAA01354@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35D8B449.444F302C@bbtel.com> There are others, they list them as XTA drives. Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > Jason writes: > > > > Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > > > > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > > > > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > > > > > > > > ThAnX, > > > > -- > > > > -Jason > > > > (roblwill@usaor.net) > > > > ICQ#-1730318 > > > > > > Try an ST-251-1. It's the voice-coil version of the ST-251 and clocks in > > > at 28ms. You can't have mine. I use them on uVAXen. > > > > He needs an IDE and IIRC the St251 and 251-1 are MFM. > > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for ROM > burning. IIRC, WD made 20Mb and 40Mb XT IDE before moving on to AT IDE. > Commodore even designed-in an XT-IDE port on their A2091 and A590 disk > controllers for the A2000 and A500, respectively. The A590 did ship with > 20Mb XT drives; the A2091 did not have the 40 pin connector soldered in place. > It does work; I have retrofitted one. They are slow. > > And, yes, the ST251/251-1 are both MFM. I use them on ancient DEC hardware. > > -ethan -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 18:00:57 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808171744.NAA02924@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <35D8B628.16CA4A90@bbtel.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Jason writes; > > > Ethan, this hd ST251-1 is equally bad and it uses stepper not voice > > coil. Can see the stepper itself. Also this hd have lot of > > reliablity problems and very touchy especially handling, very > > loud noisy. > > I sit corrected. I had thought that the 28ms version used a voice coil > and the 40ms version used a stepper. That is not the case. > > As for noise, yes. It's noisy by today's standards. All of the old > drives were touchy WRT handling. I didn't consider it more so than > any other 8 year old drive. The only noise I can get from any of the old Seagate MFM's (besides the growl of windup) is that odd little tweet they make, which is really invisible. Minscribes are the noisy SOB's and have the stepper on the outside that grind and scrach and have new owners asking if the drive is dying. Speaking of that, anyone have a working MiniScribe model 8450XT (IDE XTA 3.5") that they want to sell/trade/give away? Need one quick for a replacement for a parapelegic guy (Nam Vet) out there I just met that hasa machine in his collection that is dead. The controller can't be accessed to chage the parameters so the easiest repair is an exact replacement. He's got a few bucks but by no means is he rich and his computer collection is his whole day for him. He has no internet connection so I get the task of locating one via email for him. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 18:04:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808171611.MAA01354@user2.infinet.com> <35D88F1A.B794C9AD@texoma.net> Message-ID: <35D8B6E0.32724AFC@bbtel.com> James L. Rice wrote: > Tandy used XT IDE on the Tandy 1000 series called a "Smartdrive". i > think it was ST157A/X for 16/8 bit switchable. There was a controller > card with onboard bios for controlling the drives. > > James > > > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for the Seagate ST05X series controllers were variants of this, in that they auto sensed certain type drives and set up with them without need to run up the rom bios program. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Mon Aug 17 18:22:37 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808172322.BAA09335@IAEhv.nl> On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:40:15 +0200 (CEST), Jason writes: cl> Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - cl> and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare cl> XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? Those hard disks were very slow, and noisy too. They also suffer from sudden head stiction. You are lucky it is a Western Digital. Older machines had Miniscribe hard disks which were worse. You can switch off the XT-IDE hard disk port with switch 8 of the DIP switches in the Philips XT and install a regular MFM disk controller and hard disk in the machine. Works like in any other XT. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 17 18:23:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808172323.AA06900@world.std.com> < As for noise, yes. It's noisy by today's standards. All of the old < drives were touchy WRT handling. I didn't consider it more so than < any other 8 year old drive. The ST251 is easily over 12 years and known for spindle problems. It runs real hot. Not a great drive compared the Quantum d540 (31mb) that is voicecoil(fast), reliable and known to be very unfussy about handling. Also the ST251 was very flakey compared to it's 20mb counterpart the st225. Not all were touchy WRT to handling. The biggest problems is that between new developments and company turnovers some really poor drives made it out the door due to design errors or worse poor quality control. I still use st506, st412 and st225s but NOT st251s. I also have some 7 Quantum D540s that refuse to die in my PDP-11s, vax, and CP/M systems. Allison From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Aug 17 18:05:49 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808160702.AAA25032@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Uncle Roger asked: >A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? '68 Plymouth Sport Suburban (= 3-seat Fury wagon *not* the Chevy Suburban). I'll work on the stuff that makes it go but I let professionals handle the stuff that makes it stop or turn. I sometimes fantasize about a medium big terrorist nuke at very high altitude using EMP to shut down all the microprocessor-controlled cars in the state. I don't think that would stop my car with its points and coil. 'Course, the road will still be jammed full of inert new cars.... ....and my classic computer collection will be garbage! Auuugghh!!! I don't fanatasize about that very often. - Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward. From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 18:37:21 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: <199808172323.AA06900@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D8BEAF.14C907A2@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > The ST251 is easily over 12 years and known for spindle problems. > > It runs real hot. Not a great drive compared the Quantum d540 (31mb) > that is voicecoil(fast), reliable and known to be very unfussy about > handling. Also the ST251 was very flakey compared to it's 20mb > counterpart the st225. Not all were touchy WRT to handling. The biggest > problems is that between new developments and company turnovers some > really poor drives made it out the door due to design errors or worse > poor quality control. > > I still use st506, st412 and st225s but NOT st251s. I also have some 7 > Quantum D540s that refuse to die in my PDP-11s, vax, and CP/M systems. There are billions of working (and cheap) 251 and 251-1 drives out there though, hence they get used in these applications more than the lesser available Quantums. You're darn right on the heat too! -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 17 18:46:25 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D8C0D0.7866ADC8@bbtel.com> Mark Tapley wrote: > Uncle Roger asked: > > >A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How > >many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? > > '68 Plymouth Sport Suburban (= 3-seat Fury wagon *not* the Chevy Suburban). > I'll work on the stuff that makes it go but I let professionals > handle the stuff that makes it stop or turn. > I sometimes fantasize about a medium big terrorist nuke at very > high altitude using EMP to shut down all the microprocessor-controlled cars > in the state. I don't think that would stop my car with its points and > coil. 'Course, the road will still be jammed full of inert new cars.... > ....and my classic computer collection will be garbage! Auuugghh!!! > I don't fanatasize about that very often. Of course the radio won't work so why drive. I have a 74 Chevy C20 crew cab pickup with points/condenser/coil and a 77 Ford F250 4WD standard pickup with electronic ignition.. Wanna guess which starts after an EMP blast? Anyway to get back to Roger's question, I have always worked on my own vehicles down to changing tires when a machine is available (military auto hobby shops) and always rebuilt my own engines, electrical, suspensions, body work, etc . About the only thing I leave to the local grease monkey is an alignment and I watch that like a hawk (I've doine my own alignments before on a Bear rack). I haven't owned a vehicle with an automatic trans since my 65 Chevy Impala 2 dr with the slip-n-slide Powerglide. All my present vehicles since have had either commonplace 3 speed or heavy duty 4 speed rock grinders and I rebuilt them in a few hours easily. As for the lack of technolog in it, forget that. I always have a load of computers in the back at any given time whether the Ford or Chevy. BTW I'v e only owned one foreign (non-US) vehicle, a Datsun pickup, 74. Hated it. > - Mark > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Large Asteroids headed toward planets > inhabited by beings that don't have > technology adequate to stop them: > > Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 17 19:18:09 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <35D88F1A.B794C9AD@texoma.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, James L. Rice wrote: > Tandy used XT IDE on the Tandy 1000 series called a "Smartdrive". i > think it was ST157A/X for 16/8 bit switchable. There was a controller > card with onboard bios for controlling the drives. > > James Seagate's listing does not reflect an ST157A/X, so unless it was something OEM'd for Tandy, it would more likely have been an ST325A/X, ST351A/X, or ST352A/X. - don > > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Aug 17 19:06:43 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980817124139.0a670eb6@ricochet.net> At 04:11 AM 8/15/98 GMT, you wrote: >inflation of the price of something that should belong to people who >respect it as other than a "collectors item". Now I'm sure this Why does this idea always come from the people who don't have/can't afford the objet in question? If works of art, classic computers, '56 corvettes, etc., should all belong to the people, then maybe we should all switch to socialism. I have no problem with that. Everyone on the list could then turn over their classic computers to the state, and take 3 or 4 homeless people into their apartments. Certainly, if old computers should be shared amongst all, then more so should food and shelter. On the other hand, if we want to stick with the system we've got (and if you've got a roof over your head that doesn't leak, you're doing pretty well with this system) then we have to accept that artwork, cool cars, hot babes (and hunks), and computers all go to those who can afford them, and we need to quit whining about it and work to get ahead so we can be one of those who can afford a $12K altair. In the meantime, there are plenty of other computers out there to play with and if you're just interested in it as a technical toy, Compupro's were much better, or you can design your own S-100 box. And I doubt someone who paid $12k for an Altair is going to use it as a boat anchor or flowerpot, so don't worry about its survival. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Aug 17 19:06:47 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns - NOT! Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980817152559.0a87f8ae@ricochet.net> At 11:30 AM 8/15/98 -0700, you wrote: >I don't think ZDNet will post my comments, as mine started with: > >Piracy YES. Commodore 64 NOT! Actually, they did; it was my comment that didn't get posted. I berated ZD (et al) for proclaiming a computer dead simply because they do not receive any advertising income from its users. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Aug 17 19:06:48 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980817153746.0a7f4502@ricochet.net> At 12:40 AM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >engine, transmission, hydraulics (it's a Citroen with hydraulic Omigawd... You poor soul you... Here, let me send you an Altair to make up for your suffering! 8^) (The french should make love, not cars.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Aug 17 19:06:50 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980817154139.0a7fab58@ricochet.net> At 06:47 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of >> Altairs as collectibles. > >Not at all. It's the *perceived* significance and rarity that makes these Exactly! That perception need not have any basis in fact. >Bill Gates first wrote BASIC for the Schmaltztair rather than the Altair, I'm not sure how much Gates has to do with the perceived value of the Altair; it may be that people just think of it as the "first". >those brilliant bastards at Ty came up with a scheme for artificial Doncha wish ya was one of them? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Mon Aug 17 15:36:52 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <35D8BEAF.14C907A2@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199808180013.UAA23655@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 18:37:21 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Russ Blakeman > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > The ST251 is easily over 12 years and known for spindle problems. > > > > It runs real hot. Not a great drive compared the Quantum d540 (31mb) Snip! > > really poor drives made it out the door due to design errors or worse > > poor quality control. Snip! > There are billions of working (and cheap) 251 and 251-1 drives out there > though, hence they get used in these applications more than the lesser > available Quantums. You're darn right on the heat too! That, is not the HD heat problems...cooling air was poorly done in both installation and case design. Old Compaq Deskpro cases have that in mind. ST225 got real hot too so need to watch that on any 5.25" hds and insure cooling is good. Many hd deaths have caused by extended hot running time and caused rapid stickums in ST251 series and ST1xxy series that use stepper type. This does apply to all hd's as well but many newer hd's are usually cooler but very recent hd's are getting hotter as platters count go up and rpm rate goes up. Those ST251's have rapidly died out around here, very rare one or two for last few years and most are remade into clocks. Including: ST277 and ST296 series, same design as ST251 series. Russ, have you told us what kind of this computer that used miniscribe 8450XT hd? Many times this can be bypassed if this machine use slots. Also you don't have to use exact replacement, 8051A can do that too as it has jumper for XT mode, ditto to ST351a/x drives. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 18 19:21:47 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808180036.UAA18543@gate.usaor.net> ---------- > From: Kees Stravers > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K > Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 7:22 PM > > Those hard disks were very slow, and noisy too. They also suffer from > sudden head stiction. You are lucky it is a Western Digital. > Older machines had Miniscribe hard disks which were worse. > I've found that out. A 10MB MiniScribe that I in a Tandy 1000 (no suffix) sounded like a weed whacker and started to smoke when it finally went bad. > You can switch off the XT-IDE hard disk port with switch 8 of the > DIP switches in the Philips XT and install a regular MFM disk controller > and hard disk in the machine. Works like in any other XT. > > Kees > > -- > > Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org > Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org > > Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered > From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 18 19:32:05 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: WANTED : IDE XT/XTA DRIVES Message-ID: <199808180036.UAA18582@gate.usaor.net> I have an old Tandy 1000TL that needs a HD. The one that is currently in it is a Western Digital 20MB IDE (with stepper motor). Although this drive is still operating, it is VERY slow. Does anyone have a 20, 30, or 40 MB 3.5" XT/XTA IDE drive (without stepper) that they'd like to part with? ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 17 19:43:03 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > >>Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark > > >>curve :) > > > > > > Yes and the transmission shift points in some cars. > > > > What?!? Took me a couple of minutes to work out what you're even > > talking about, there. > > :-).. > > > > > These (mostly non-electronic) analogue computers were quite popular in > > larger cars (in the UK, anything with more than 2.5 litres - 150 cu. in. > > - of engine) in the early 'seventies, but they were inefficient and > > unreliable and I never use them if I can avoid it... > > Actually, if correctly maintained, automatic transmissions can be very > reliable. I still don't like the idea of automatic control of _anything_ > that can be manual, though... > > Renault made an electromechanical automatic transmission. It used an > electromagnetic clutch and a conventional gearbox with a motor/solenoid > assembly to move the selector rails (3 speed + reverse). There was a > relay box to operate that with inputs from a push-button assembly near > the driver, a mechanical speed sensor (worked like the spinning-magnet + > Al disk speedometer, but with contacts on it), etc. The relay unit also > operated a flap on the inlet manifold to drop the engine speed when > appropriate. Don't forget the Mechamatic, designed and built by one of your countrymen - whose name escapes me at the moment - which was an all mechanical automatic transmission without fluid coupling or torque converter, IIRC. - don > Alas the shop manual I have for it doesn't give any internal details of > the relay box or the actuator assembly, so figuring out how it works > (without owning the car!) is impossible. > > > > > I refer of course to automatic gearboxes. If you want control over the > > transmission shift points, get a manual gearbox with electric overdrive. > > Every time! > > What about Roverdrive, then. For those (everyone on this list!) who've > not come across this transmission-designed-by-a-committee, it consisted > of a torque convertor (like on an automatic), a conventional dry clutch, > a 2-speed+reverse synchromesh gearbox, and an electric overdriver. The > last could be automatically controlled, but the rest was entirely manual. > > -tony > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 17 19:58:01 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > >>Don't forget the most important thing, you can REALLY control the spark > > > >>curve :) > > > > > > > > Yes and the transmission shift points in some cars. > > > > > > What?!? Took me a couple of minutes to work out what you're even > > > talking about, there. > > > > :-).. > > > > > > > > These (mostly non-electronic) analogue computers were quite popular in > > > larger cars (in the UK, anything with more than 2.5 litres - 150 cu. in. > > > - of engine) in the early 'seventies, but they were inefficient and > > > unreliable and I never use them if I can avoid it... > > > > Actually, if correctly maintained, automatic transmissions can be very > > reliable. I still don't like the idea of automatic control of _anything_ > > that can be manual, though... > > > > Renault made an electromechanical automatic transmission. It used an > > electromagnetic clutch and a conventional gearbox with a motor/solenoid > > assembly to move the selector rails (3 speed + reverse). There was a > > relay box to operate that with inputs from a push-button assembly near > > the driver, a mechanical speed sensor (worked like the spinning-magnet + > > Al disk speedometer, but with contacts on it), etc. The relay unit also > > operated a flap on the inlet manifold to drop the engine speed when > > appropriate. > Hobbs > Don't forget the^Mechamatic, designed and built by one of your countrymen > - whose name escapes me at the moment - which was an all mechanical > automatic transmission without fluid coupling or torque converter, IIRC. > > - don > > > Alas the shop manual I have for it doesn't give any internal details of > > the relay box or the actuator assembly, so figuring out how it works > > (without owning the car!) is impossible. > > > > > > > > I refer of course to automatic gearboxes. If you want control over the > > > transmission shift points, get a manual gearbox with electric overdrive. > > > Every time! > > > > What about Roverdrive, then. For those (everyone on this list!) who've > > not come across this transmission-designed-by-a-committee, it consisted > > of a torque convertor (like on an automatic), a conventional dry clutch, > > a 2-speed+reverse synchromesh gearbox, and an electric overdriver. The > > last could be automatically controlled, but the rest was entirely manual. > > > > -tony > > > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Aug 17 20:53:40 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 References: <199808170702.AAA26711@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D8DEA4.ABE6AD63@goldrush.com> > Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:31:42 -0500 (CDT) > From: Doug Yowza > Subject: C64 for $800 > > I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's > worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work > again? Actually there's quite a lot of really good Commodore 64/128 stuff there... > 1- C128-D Computer, with keyboard and internal 1571 disk drive. Jiffy Dos is built in with the switch > on the front of the machine. In GREAT condition. the 128D is a nice computer when you find one that works reliably. $30 > 1- Super CPU 128 with 8 Megs installed. Will put the 128-D at 20 mhz. This is a 20 Mghz accellerator for the 128, it was just put on the market this year. Probably good for $150 alone. > 1- CMD RamLink with 12 Megs, includes the HDD Cable and battery backup. Nice REU unit, does a RAM disk with it's memory and allows for fast parallel access to CMD Hard Drives. Another $100. > 1- 1581 Disk Drive... with Jiffy Dos Somewhat hard to get maybe $40 at best. > 1- CMD FD-2000 Disk Drive. 1.6 meg floppies yeah! Improvement over the 1581, lets you also use 1.44 md disks and with right software access IBM disks too. $75. > 1- CMD 2 GIGAbyte Hard Drive that looks CHERRY New! A CMD Hard Drive for your Commodore 64/128 is a must for the commodore fan, Probably about $200 at most. > 1- Commodore 2002 40/80 Color Monitor Nice Monitor, can be used on Amigas too... $40. > 1-1541 Disk Drive... Yes, WITH Jiffy Dos > 1- 1571 Disk Drive with.... Jiffy DOS! > 1- C64c Computer Ok, I guess... Not too terribly exciting there... Maybe $50 > 1- Action Replay Cartridge (believe its v4 or 5) Get $15 probably from me, I prefer Super Snapshot myself. > At least 30+ Origional Programs 'Paid for Software' A buck a piece without knowing what it is... $30 > A whole GEOS COLLECTION, Origional in boxes. I'm not much of a GEOS Fan. I could resell it for probably $20... Though with an original GEOS 64 2.0 disk I coulde upgrade to the recent GEOS upgrade - Wheels, which sounds pretty hot. > Over 300+ 5.25 floppies, all kinds o stuff. Read Pirated I'd go up to $30 hoping there would be a few gems of 64 software lore hidden away. > Once again, this is a once in a lifetime Commodore Collection. If you can pry this from my hands you've > gotten the BEST Commodore Hardware that has ever been available anywhere. Lifetime, no, Heck I could collect that all in a year at a fraction, just try to find docs for a PET MTU graphics board (like I am), I have a collection of a lifetime. > Everything... Is in VERY GOOD working order, many things are in fantastic shape. No junk > whatsoever. (Well I didn't go thru all 300+ floppies, treat those as "BLANKS" > > I should mention, many manuals and software for the CMD items ARE INCLUDED! The FD, the HDD, THE RL and the SCPU 128. > > Now all you gotta do is.... > Show me da Money! :) Total about $765 dollars, not to say I would bid on it, but, it is a nice list of equipment, and the current price is not all that out there. You can tell by the list the guy was either a Commodore BBS sysop or heavily into GEOS, only those two groups buy heavily into RAMLinks and mass storage units. I Don't recognize the name Ice BBS though. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From wpe at interserv.com Mon Aug 17 21:02:31 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? References: <199808171036.GAA23034@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <35D8E0B7.5ECB7880@interserv.com> As memory (rarely) serves me, on both occaisions, the culprit was in the power supply.. Just running backups during both instances... Re: another reply, Oh yes, I remember the "log books" (operator logs) along with the FS equipment logs.. The operator logs usually contained the more "colourful" entries...... Will Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > > > Hmmm.... I remember a couple of incidents in the computer room, where > > TU78's took up smoking, on one occaision prompting the system operator > > to push the BIG RED BUTTON! Needless to say, a great time was had by > > all (It's a bit of a long story)! FWIW, in the other incident, the op on > > duty flipped the breaker, opened the back of the cabinet, and literally > > BLEW the flames out (Yup, he got an award for that one....). > > > > Will > > Geez... I personally blew out the flames on a pair of TU45's. > (One of the worst tape drives ever designed by Pertec.) > > I've never seen the TU77 or 78's flame. > > Both TU45's flamed during servo adjustments at Fort Monmouth > when I was a DEC tech. > > Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 20:40:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D8C0D0.7866ADC8@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 17, 98 06:46:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1033 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/cd78a0ac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 20:44:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980817153746.0a7f4502@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 17, 98 05:06:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/306c7f40/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 17 20:47:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 17, 98 05:43:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/9b123dca/attachment.ksh From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Mon Aug 17 21:49:03 1998 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:01 2005 Subject: DLV11-F Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Anyway does anyone have the pinout for a BC01V-X or BC05C-X modem cable? > My guess is that it's a 40-pin ribbon connector on one end and a DB25 > connector on the other. Unfortunatly I don't seem to have the pinout for > the 40-pin connector or I'd see about putting this together. Take a look at: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/ pdp.bc01v.cable It should tell you everything you need to know. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 17 21:56:56 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: <35D8DEA4.ABE6AD63@goldrush.com> Message-ID: OK, it's been killing me, so I've just gotta ask. What do you do with a C64 running at 20MHz? Play a *really* fast game of Ms. Pacman? -- Doug (from his 200MHz IMSAI 8080) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 22:00:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980817155507.460f6dc4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general > purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. How close is it > to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for the 4041 a few > months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know anything about > the keybaords for the 4041? It uses a strange 4 pin connector. I've heard > that you can operate them from a terminal. Does anyone know anything about > this? Strange coincidence, I just picked up another today (my second, the first doesn't pass self test). I know only a little about it from the manuals I got with the first. The only thing I know about the keyboards is that they are difficult to find, as I've never seen one yet. Its 68000 based and has a backplane inside so you can add or remove cards. If you look carefully at the bottom face of the unit, you'll notice it is a little cover about 1" high and the length of the front of the machine. You can pry it off with a coin, then pull on the rubber handle you see. Out pops a ROM tray. The one I got today has the Graphics ROM and thegraphics printing option. You don't necessarily need the keyboard to program it although it helps I'm sure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 17 22:06:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808180306.AA09490@world.std.com> < If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to < lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, Its alot of < work. I wasn't thinking of a real convention... more like a remote tailgate party. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 17 22:06:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808180306.AA09760@world.std.com> < That, is not the HD heat problems...cooling air was poorly done in < both installation and case design. Old Compaq Deskpro cases have < that in mind. ST225 got real hot too so need to watch that on any < 5.25" hds and insure cooling is good. Amen to that. Heat is a bad thing for computers or their peripherals. Most suffer from to much heat, and too much heat around the disk stack. < Those ST251's have rapidly died out around here, Actually I'm still running one, in a Leading Edge model D Xt box that does cool exceptionally well. The power supply (and the fan in it) is behind the disk stack and exceptionally well cooled. I put a second fan in the 486/66 for that reason... to hot. The altair taught me well about heat... and lousy air flow. Allison From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 17 22:07:27 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980817230501.006dc474@netpath.net> At 09:56 PM 8/17/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >OK, it's been killing me, so I've just gotta ask. What do you do with a >C64 running at 20MHz? Play a *really* fast game of Ms. Pacman? > >-- Doug (from his 200MHz IMSAI 8080) Tsk, tsk! ONLY 200mhz??? Didn't you see the IMSAI overclocking FAQ??? :) - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 17 23:09:32 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K References: Message-ID: <35D8FE7C.53ECA3C8@texoma.net> I went and looked and it was a 351a/x. i haven't pulled that one out for about 6 years. Don Maslin wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, James L. Rice wrote: > > > Tandy used XT IDE on the Tandy 1000 series called a "Smartdrive". i > > think it was ST157A/X for 16/8 bit switchable. There was a controller > > card with onboard bios for controlling the drives. > > > > James > > Seagate's listing does not reflect an ST157A/X, so unless it was > something OEM'd for Tandy, it would more likely have been an ST325A/X, > ST351A/X, or ST352A/X. > - don > > > > Wow. I didn't know that anybody besides Commodore ever used XT IDE. I have > > > a couple of WD-98???-X drives, one in a Commodore Colt that I use for > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm > with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 18 23:53:07 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808180457.AAA07343@gate.usaor.net> > Actually I'm still running one, in a Leading Edge model D Xt box that > does cool exceptionally well. The power supply (and the fan in it) is > behind the disk stack and exceptionally well cooled. I put a second fan > in the 486/66 for that reason... to hot. > > The altair taught me well about heat... and lousy air flow. > > Allison > One of the computers that had a VERY bad airflow was the Tandy 2500SX. They used to have one at my school, and someone left it on over the weekend (turned off the monitor and forgot the computer). When they got back on Monday, the fan in the P/S had stopped (bearings had somehow frozen), the HD was still going, the top of the case (plastic) had gotten soft, and the monitor had sunk into the top of the case. The hard drive was an old Microscience 72(? may have been 80 with a lot of bad sectors) MB that sounded like a full-height Maxtor when it was running. Nothing worked anymore, except the HD would spin up. It was the only computer from that school that I couldn't revive. Not even the RAM chips worked anymore. Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan was working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY tight when removed from P/S) on Monday. The computer was a mini-desktop, and only had a few vents near the bottom of the front panel and only a 2 1/2" fan. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Aug 17 21:48:14 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <01bdca34$1f1630a0$2d28a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <199808180651.CAA29368@smtp.interlog.com> On 17 Aug 98 at 19:09, PG Manney wrote: > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? > > manney@lrbcg.com > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides > Yes ! I've been looking for one. Let me know. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 05:51:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K/heat Message-ID: <199808181051.AA26896@world.std.com> < Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan < working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY ti The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not good for some systems. Likely it was a crummy fan. Allison From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Aug 18 07:55:06 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit References: Message-ID: <35D979AA.BB95918A@idirect.com> >Tony Duell wrote: > Megan Gentry wrote: > > You should be able to do that... but the VT103 had some special > > paddle board which plugged into the connector on the VT100 > > basic video board and which provided a connector (2x5) which > > connects to something like an MXV11-B, and a second connector > > which also attaches to the MXV11-B (or DLV11-J) and routes the > > signals through to the external connector (if I remember > > correctly - otherwise it provides a separate external > > conenction). > > That paddleboard connector on the VT100 is one of the cleverest pieces of > design I've seen from DEC. The pins are supposed to short between the 2 > sides when there's nothing in the connector, thus linking the terminal > logic signals to the DB25 on the back. Insert a paddleboard, and you > disconnect them, allowing the paddleboard to connect separately to the > VT100 logic and the outside world. > > I have the VT100 prints if you want to try to make the paddleboard yourself. Jerome Fine replies: While using the paddleboard is definitely the most convenient way to run a VT103, it is also completely unnecessary. So while I would pay a reasonable sum to buy a paddleboard if I was going to use a VT103 in a commercial way - or if I was into restoring a VT103, I might even build my own paddleboard so as to run the VT103 in the normal manner, for anyone who just wishes to run a VT103 and have fun, then the use of a paddle board is not required. The primary purpose of the paddleboard was to allow the VT100 portion of the VT103 to be directly connected to the console port of a DLV11-J (4 serial port SLU) and for the normal DB25 connection to be used to attach a serial line printer. Internally, one of the other ports on the DLV11-J could then be attached to the slowest "disk drive" ever, the TU-58. On one occasion back over 10 years ago, a friend was demonstrating how long it took to boot RT-11. Well, after 2 minutes, we were about to go for coffee when it finally finished. Without the paddleboard, it is necessary to use a cable to run from the DLV11-J to the normal DB25 at the back to enable the use of the VT100 portion as the console device. Then, in addition, a serial line printer must be attached to other port via a cable which then goes to the printer. One notable aspect of the paddleboard (if I remember correctly - if necessary either Megan or I can check for you if you have the paddleboard) is that the baud rate on the DLV11-J is left to float for both the console and printer port and the paddleboard sets the baud rate for the console port at 9600 baud and the user via the SETUP commands is able to set the baud rate for the serial line printer port. As far as I know, all DEC versions of the VT103 came with an 18 bit backplane for the QBus. If an LSI-11/03 is used, I understand it may be ill advised to make any changes in the backplane, as well as fruitless, since this CPU can use only a maximum of 56 KBytes of memory in any case. However, both the 11/23 and the 11/73 CPUs are able to use all 4 MBytes of memory with the primary OSs for the PDP-11. However, I have also heard that the use of a quad CPU with a 22 bit backplane may also risk damage to the CPU in the VT103 environment. BUT, I have seen both the dual 11/23 (M8186) and the dual 11/73 (M8192) used with an upgraded 22 bit backplane within the VT103 along with a full 4 MBytes of memory. In addition, there was a DLV11-J and a third party hard disk controller, a Sigma RQD11-B (an MFM interface - which also had BOOT ROMs for the MSCP device) along with a 5 1/14" hard disk drive situated under the tube. The disk drive happened to be a Micropolis 1325 of 70 MBytes. And while I would strongly recommend against running with a DHV11 for any extended period of time due to the lack of a proper power supply on the VT103 (and especially in that case, placing the hard disk drive on an external power source - a PC power supply does very nicely), that can also be done for short demonstrations of up to an hour if it seems desirable. What is very sad is that DEC had all this software and most of the hardware available back in 1980 and Ken Olsen, along with the senior VPs at DEC, decided that the PC market was not where DEC wanted to be focused - namely high volume and low unit profits. The VT103 was, already in 1980 with the 11/23, and shortly thereafter with the 11/73, a far better PC than the MS-DOS/Intel combination could produce until the 486 was released in 1989. All that was necessary back in 1980 was a decision to compete in the PC market - a decision that IBM also refused to make as well. If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the necessary technical information. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 08:14:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808181314.AA28744@world.std.com> < As far as I know, all DEC versions of the VT103 came < with an 18 bit backplane for the QBus. If an LSI-11/03 Correct. < is used, I understand it may be ill advised to make any < changes in the backplane, as well as fruitless, since this < CPU can use only a maximum of 56 KBytes of memory < in any case. Also correct. < for the PDP-11. However, I have also heard that the < use of a quad CPU with a 22 bit backplane may also < risk damage to the CPU in the VT103 environment. I've done it. The bigest things is the power supply is somewhat limited. < BUT, I have seen both the dual 11/23 (M8186) and < the dual 11/73 (M8192) used with an upgraded 22 < bit backplane within the VT103 along with a full < 4 MBytes of memory. In addition, there was a Very doable. The biggest thing is for most DEC OSs 256k (18bit) is plenty. A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11. That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods, RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp). using a 11/23b or 11/73 you can remove the BDV11 and they have mscp boots. however the PS is right on the edge. < tube. The disk drive happened to be a Micropolis < 1325 of 70 MBytes. And while I would strongly < recommend against running with a DHV11 for any < extended period of time due to the lack of a proper That would overstress the PS and seriously need a bigger fan. < with the 11/23, and shortly thereafter with the 11/73, < a far better PC than the MS-DOS/Intel combination < could produce until the 486 was released in 1989. you bet! < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the < necessary technical information. I've built a few and have data as well. Allison From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 18 08:15:53 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <199808180651.CAA29368@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 18, 98 02:48:14 am Message-ID: <199808181315.JAA15977@user2.infinet.com> > > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? > > > > manney@lrbcg.com > > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides What is the card? What drivers? I have a couple of 8-bit IEEE-488 cards and _no_ drivers. It's a standard, but old, National Instruments card. If you tell me the model number of yours, I'll check it against mine when I get home. I'd love drivers for it. -ethan From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Aug 18 08:31:10 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808181314.AA28744@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 18, 98 09:14:49 am Message-ID: <199808181331.JAA09573@shell.monmouth.com> > < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with > < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, > < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the > < necessary technical information. > > I've built a few and have data as well. > > > Allison > > Someone -- post the wire wrap info... bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 21:27:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: DLV11-F Cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >OK, I've read through the entry on the DLV11-F in the "Microcomputer >Interfaces Handbook" (I love finally having some documentation). According >to it this card supports either a 20ma current loop interface or >EIA-standard lines, but doesn't include modem control. > >My first question is, am I correct in assuming that I can attach a VT100 to >it with the proper serial cable? I know I could use the 20ma current loop, >IF I had a VT100 with that interface. > >Anyway does anyone have the pinout for a BC01V-X or BC05C-X modem cable? http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/pdp .bc01v.cable Well, I found the cable diagram on sunsite accidentally today, and after looking throught the VT100 Tech Manual I think I answered my other question, it looks like I should be able to attach a VT100 to this board. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 21:07:52 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller and DFV-11A Controller In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 09:37:41 pm Message-ID: >R220/330 means 220Ohm/330Ohm terminator (the 221331 number I mentioned >means the same thing - read it as 22*10^1, etc). Interestingly, that's >the standard terminator for SASI/SCSI! Hmmm.... Unfortunatly I don't see it being able to function as a SASI/SCSI controller by itself, we're back to what you'd mentioned with it only being one side of the controller. >OK, do you have a multimeter? If so, first find a ground pin on the board >(shouldn't be hard), and then find which pins of the connector are >connected to ground (all along one side, possibly missing the middle >one?). Then see which other pins have _some_ resistance to ground. OK, I checked one of the connectors while the board was in the /03. The 1's have some resistance, and the 2's are grounded. 000011111100000000000000 222222222222222222222222 -----------Circuit Board----------------- >> Well if you've got a web browser, I just stuck the a photo of it on my web > >I have a web browser, but it's lynx, and thus text only... > >-tony Ah, well I guess that idea didn't work so well :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 18 11:28:08 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <7805@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808181435.JAA22879@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Ethan: Try www.natinst.com. Far as I know national still supports prettyy much all of their hardware. At 09:15 AM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? >> > >> > manney@lrbcg.com >> > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides > >What is the card? What drivers? I have a couple of 8-bit IEEE-488 cards >and _no_ drivers. It's a standard, but old, National Instruments card. If >you tell me the model number of yours, I'll check it against mine when I get >home. I'd love drivers for it. > >-ethan > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 18 10:29:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: References: <35D8DEA4.ABE6AD63@goldrush.com> Message-ID: >OK, it's been killing me, so I've just gotta ask. What do you do with a >C64 running at 20MHz? Play a *really* fast game of Ms. Pacman? > >-- Doug (from his 200MHz IMSAI 8080) I think it's primarily for people running GEOS, and surfing the net with their C64's. I wonder it UNIX supports the Add-on processor :^) Yes, there is pseudo version of UNIX for the C64, kinda cool at that. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 18 10:44:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <35D979AA.BB95918A@idirect.com> References: Message-ID: >As far as I know, all DEC versions of the VT103 came >with an 18 bit backplane for the QBus. If an LSI-11/03 >is used, I understand it may be ill advised to make any >changes in the backplane, as well as fruitless, since this >CPU can use only a maximum of 56 KBytes of memory >in any case. This is what has me worried at the moment. As near as I can figure out, what I"ve got here is an actual VT100 that has a LSI-11/03 backplane put in it. I suspect that this was a third party modification and was sold this way, as two of the boards are from ARC, and the VT100 has a ARC tag on it. What I'm really wondering (and have mentioned in a previous post) is what a ARC DFV-11A is, as it's apparently one of the boards that was in the computer. It looks like when it's fully put together it might have a whopping 8 or 16k. I was planning to try using a DILOG controller I've got for a couple of floppies, but in reading through some stuff I see that the /03 is apperently a 16-bit backplane, while the card I've got is for a 22-bit backplane. Is this correct? This card falls into the catagory of really nice, don't want to blow up :^) Based on what I've got, I think I'm out of luck for anything fancier than a /03 in this terminal. Unfortunatly there doesn't seem to be a SLU with the cards that were in the Box labeled "VT100", and the whole pile I got this weekend is lacking in SLU's, so this will have to wait till I can get the parts to manufacture a cable for the one SLU that came with the rack mount /03's I got. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 18 10:57:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: RSX-11M v4.1 Message-ID: OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the disks seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount. Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels. RSX-11M V4.1 | RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot. Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try to load RSX-11M V4.1 EXCPRV V1 HLPDCL V2 Copied 06/19/84 RSX-11M V4.1 MCRSRC V1 Copied 06/19/84 RSX-11M V4.1 | ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load it. UPDATE V2 | ACS MODS V3 | Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 | Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and based on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN. What on earth is the third pack? Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged? On a semi positive note, the drives (2 RL02, and 2 RL01) came with 2 RL02 packs and a RL01 pack in them. The two RL02's contain a bootable system that appears to have the Whitesmith C on it. I'm not sure about the RL01. I'm still hoping the Whitesmith C distribution on RL01 is OK. Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to play with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs to go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 18 10:41:11 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808181708.NAA01027@charity.harvard.net> Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our raggedy group? Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 11:06 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market > > > < If people out here in the east are really interested, I'm willing to > < lend my convention experience... Lemme warn ya beforehand, > Its alot of > < work. > > I wasn't thinking of a real convention... more like a remote tailgate > party. > > Allison > From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 18 11:25:23 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <199808181435.JAA22879@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 18, 98 09:28:08 am Message-ID: <199808181625.MAA19958@user2.infinet.com> > > > Ethan: > > Try www.natinst.com. Far as I know national still supports prettyy much all > of their hardware. When I first got the cards last year, I tried them. I couldn't find a reference to my board. I wasn't surprised (the board is over 10 years old), so I stopped digging. Maybe they have added more to their support page recently. Thanks, -ethan From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Aug 18 11:33:15 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit References: <199808181314.AA28744@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D9ACCB.87EB5475@idirect.com> >Allison J Parent wrote: > < for the PDP-11. However, I have also heard that the > < use of a quad CPU with a 22 bit backplane may also > < risk damage to the CPU in the VT103 environment. > I've done it. The bigest things is the power supply > is somewhat limited. Jerome Fine replies: This is good news indeed. I was worried that the addition of the extra address lines in an AB/AB or Q22 backplane could damage the CPU. In the BA23/BA123 boxes which are the usual backplanes that are available, the first 3/4 slots are ABCD. > < BUT, I have seen both the dual 11/23 (M8186) and > < the dual 11/73 (M8192) used with an upgraded 22 > < bit backplane within the VT103 along with a full > < 4 MBytes of memory. In addition, there was a > Very doable. The biggest thing is for most DEC OSs > 256k (18bit) is plenty. Well, I always thought that RSX and RSTS/E were far better of with more memory. Also, with V5.0 of RT-11, the availability of 4 MBytes and a VM: was highly useful - not needed, but very nice. Of course, until recently, DEC memory boards were so expensive that more than 1/4 MByte was not worth while in any case as opposed to SIMMs with the PC. However, a half MByte board (M8067) is now so inexpensive that it is no longer a problem. > A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11. > That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods, > RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates > the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp). What hardware did you use to connect the RQDX3 to the RX50/RX33 floppy drives? In general, I found the floppy to be far too slow and if I was jumping up the an RX33, for the same price (at current cost for a hard drive) I would prefer at least an RD51. > using a 11/23b or 11/73 you can remove the BDV11 and they have > mscp boots. however the PS is right on the edge. You can always power the disk drives with an auxiliary power supply from a PC. In that case, you can even have 2 hard drives and 2 floppies. Otherwise, with just the one hard drive (under the tube), it is indeed on the edge of the PS if the VT103 supplies all the power. One other option I mentioned is that a SIGMA RQD11-B (MFM controller) uses about the same power as an RQDX3, but has BOOT ROMS. As a result, you can use just the dual 11/23 and no BDV11. Then there is enough internal power to run everything for a reasonable period of time (likely at least an hour), but if you want a longer period of time or you are going to use 2 hard drives, then stick the hard drives on the eternal PC power supply. > < tube. The disk drive happened to be a Micropolis > < 1325 of 70 MBytes. And while I would strongly > < recommend against running with a DHV11 for any > < extended period of time due to the lack of a proper > That would overstress the PS and seriously need a bigger fan. YES!! If run for a long time. But for short demos of an hour or less, the VT103 was highly effective. Most individuals who were familiar with the VT100 did not recognize the VT103. So when the demo was given, the first reaction was to ask about the computer - they saw only a VT100. We used to say that we had substituted clever squirrels inside the VT100 instead. > < with the 11/23, and shortly thereafter with the 11/73, > < a far better PC than the MS-DOS/Intel combination > < could produce until the 486 was released in 1989. > you bet! I even heard that someone had re-wired the backplane to allow a MicroVax II (ABCD slots for the first 2). Now imagine if DEC had sprung the VT103 on the PC world as a PC at PC prices with a 150 watt power supply (and a bigger fan) to easily allow hard drives under the tube. And later, had gone to the MicroVax II as a standard option. The 10 year late DEC PCs would have been initially based on the PDP-11 and could then have used the VAX. The only thing lacking was a pricing model to compete with the XT and the AT (and a will by Ken Olson to sell to the masses). > < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with > < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, > < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the > < necessary technical information. > I've built a few and have data as well. I understand that a total of 32 solder connections are required. I once saw the re-wired backplane. It seemed to have been done with wire-wrap wire since the solder points were so small. It does not seem that more than a few others use the PDP-11 to any extent and even fewer use RT-11. I guess that perhaps I still quality to be part of the group who fix hardware since I was involved in the VT103 conversion. At one stage, there was a consideration of if it was worthwhile to put an ESDI hard disk controller into the VT103 and use an ST8760E 5 1/4" hard drive, naturally with an external power supply and a fan right beside the drive. In RT-11, that is 20 partitions. SIGMA made an RQD11-DESDI dual controller which could handle 2 of the drives. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 18 13:39:26 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <7816@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808181646.LAA23614@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Okay, which board do you have? Jeff At 12:25 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> Ethan: >> >> Try www.natinst.com. Far as I know national still supports prettyy much all >> of their hardware. > >When I first got the cards last year, I tried them. I couldn't find >a reference to my board. I wasn't surprised (the board is over 10 years old), >so I stopped digging. > >Maybe they have added more to their support page recently. > >Thanks, > >-ethan > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 11:43:21 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808181643.AA29457@world.std.com> < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our < raggedy group? Tony, That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step. Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 18 11:55:24 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808181819.OAA09758@charity.harvard.net> Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it goin'. Tony (who runs off to find a home for the Data General arriving in september) > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 12:43 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market > > > < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users > group with our > < raggedy group? > > Tony, > > That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step. > > Allison > From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:06:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit References: Message-ID: <199808181706.AA23063@world.std.com> Jerome Fine replies: >While using the paddleboard is definitely the most convenient way to >run a VT103, it is also completely unnecessary. So while I would >pay a reasonable sum to buy a paddleboard if I was going to use >a VT103 in a commercial way - or if I was into restoring a VT103, >I might even build my own paddleboard so as to run the VT103 >in the normal manner, for anyone who just wishes to run a VT103 >and have fun, then the use of a paddle board is not required. We never said it was... the question was originally whether one could attach the VT100 to a serial line directly. I responded "yes" and went on to describe the hardware which was designed to help do it for you... >The primary purpose of the paddleboard was to allow the VT100 >portion of the VT103 to be directly connected to the console >port of a DLV11-J (4 serial port SLU) and for the normal DB25 >connection to be used to attach a serial line printer. Internally, >one of the other ports on the DLV11-J could then be attached >to the slowest "disk drive" ever, the TU-58. On one occasion >back over 10 years ago, a friend was demonstrating how long >it took to boot RT-11. Well, after 2 minutes, we were about >to go for coffee when it finally finished. two minutes? that is slow... I can boot my TU-58 based system in 30 seconds... (I engineered an optimized TU58 many years ago when people within Digital were asking how to get it to boot faster). It involves specific placement of various RT-11 files on one of the four recording tracks. For those who wanted the system to run faster once booted, you could additionally take the step of loading stuff into VM and rebooting it it... >via a cable which then goes to the printer. One notable aspect >of the paddleboard (if I remember correctly - if necessary either >Megan or I can check for you if you have the paddleboard) is >that the baud rate on the DLV11-J is left to float for both >the console and printer port and the paddleboard sets the >baud rate for the console port at 9600 baud and the user >via the SETUP commands is able to set the baud rate for >the serial line printer port. That is absolutely correct... >However, both the 11/23 and the 11/73 CPUs are able >to use all 4 MBytes of memory with the primary OSs (depending on the rev of the 11/23... only Rev.C could do so). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:15:05 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808181715.AA00270@world.std.com> >> < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with >> < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, >> < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the >> < necessary technical information. >> >> I've built a few and have data as well. >> >> Allison >> >Someone -- post the wire wrap info... If I remember correctly, you buss pins BC1, BD1, BE1 and BF1... With a Q/CD backplane, that would mean just four sets of wires down the AB side (BC1-BC2-BC3, etc, BD1-BD2-BD3, etc, etc) For a Q/Q backplane, that would mean BC1-DC1-DC2-BC2-BC3-DC3, etc (maintaining the serpentine) BD1-DD1-DD2-BD2-BD3-DD3, etc... BE1... BF1... or you could do what I did... bus the AB and CD sides separately, then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized 'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting corresponding pins of successive backplane slots... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:18:45 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808181718.AA04066@world.std.com> >Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our >raggedy group? I'd join...! Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:19:16 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808181719.AA04778@world.std.com> The last VT103 I configured went to RCS/RI and it was tested with a 11/23B in it. < Well, I always thought that RSX and RSTS/E were far < better of with more memory. Also, with V5.0 of < RT-11, the availability of 4 MBytes and a VM: was highly < useful - not needed, but very nice. Of course, until < recently, DEC memory boards were so expensive that < more than 1/4 MByte was not worth while in any case as < opposed to SIMMs with the PC. However, a half MByte < board (M8067) is now so inexpensive that it is no longer < a problem. I have systems with 256k and more, with a hard disk having a ramdisk is cute but not required. Doing a a non hacked system is far easier. Also 4mb of DEC qbus ram (1mb cards) will severely load the BA11S boxes I have never mind the Vt103 PS, I've done it. That box with 11/73, RQDX3, DLV11j, LAV-11, RLV12, RXV211 and 4 memory cards overloaded the 340watt PS! The disks were off seperate power. Heck the two RD52s and RX33 requires a 70W power supply. < > A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11. < > That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods, < > RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates < > the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp). < < What hardware did you use to connect the RQDX3 to the RX50/RX33 < floppy drives? In general, I found the floppy to be far too slow < and if I was jumping up the an RX33, for the same price (at current < cost for a hard drive) I would prefer at least an RD51. The BA123 disk distribution card M9058. I use both RX33 and RX50. generally stuff for RX50 being more common I use that more though the rx50 will read/write RX50. for a hard disk 30mb Quantum D540s (RD52) as they are fast and reliable plus plenty of space. RD50, RD51, RD31, RD32 are not worth the effort as they are slow or old. < You can always power the disk drives with an auxiliary power < supply from a PC. In that case, you can even have 2 hard < drives and 2 floppies. Otherwise, with just the one hard Danger Will Robinson. External MFM drives on seperate power means YOU MUST POWER OFF THE DRIVE FIRST THEN THE SYSTEM. Failure to do so will mean writing garbage to the disk at what ever track it's on. The fix is easy reformat and reload the disk... Not something you want to do. It's ok if they both power off at the same time. Many PC power supplies have a switched outlet that can power the VT103. < drive (under the tube), it is indeed on the edge of the PS < if the VT103 supplies all the power. One other option I Don't, the drives generate serious heat and that spot is poorly cooled. < mentioned is that a SIGMA RQD11-B (MFM controller) < uses about the same power as an RQDX3, but has BOOT < ROMS. As a result, you can use just the dual 11/23 and < no BDV11. Then there is enough internal power to run That's handy but the disk is 30-37W and it's the back breaker. Going with over 256k of ram invites the same problem. If you want a big system get a decent box with adaquate cooling and power and use that. < YES!! If run for a long time. But for short demos of < an hour or less, the VT103 was highly effective. Most < individuals who were familiar with the VT100 did not < recognize the VT103. So when the demo was given, < the first reaction was to ask about the computer - they < saw only a VT100. We used to say that we had substituted < clever squirrels inside the VT100 instead. there were three differnt similar systems. PDT11/130 with TU58, VT103 and a MDS11-A. The latter two woere similar but slightly different backplane. < I even heard that someone had re-wired the backplane < to allow a MicroVax II (ABCD slots for the first 2). It would be easier to use a H9276 or other correct backplane in the available space. Still the microvaxII and memory eats power in a serious way. < Now imagine if DEC had sprung the VT103 on the < PC world as a PC at PC prices with a 150 watt power Try more like a 300W ps to build want your talking about. < supply (and a bigger fan) to easily allow hard drives under < the tube. And later, had gone to the MicroVax II as Why not the pro350/380, a well designed PDP-11 desktop system. If you want a tiny vax get a VS2000 or one of the 3100 series. < a standard option. The 10 year late DEC PCs would < have been initially based on the PDP-11 and could 10 years late???? The Pro350 was in the market the same time as the PCxt and the PDT11/150 predates the PC by a few years. < then have used the VAX. The only thing lacking was < a pricing model to compete with the XT and the AT The PRO350 competed with a loaded PCxt with CGA color and a hard disk for very similar $$$$. for similar $$$ inthe PCxt space was the Rainbow100. < I understand that a total of 32 solder connections are < required. I once saw the re-wired backplane. It < seemed to have been done with wire-wrap wire < since the solder points were so small. The ones I did had longer WW pins on the backplane (BDV-11s) and I used a standard bussing strip I have. Saves megga pain WW'ing a backplane. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:38:28 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808181738.AA22491@world.std.com> < two minutes? that is slow... I can boot my TU-58 based system < in 30 seconds... (I engineered an optimized TU58 many years < ago when people within Digital were asking how to get it to boot < faster). It involves specific placement of various RT-11 < files on one of the four recording tracks. For those who wanted < the system to run faster once booted, you could additionally take < the step of loading stuff into VM and rebooting it it... Having done that (I have a system I can demonstrate) plus the VM: trick it's possible to build a really nice system using TU58 only! It's in the V5 RT11 doc set. FYI for the 11/730 hackers the TU58 boot tape for that beast also has an optimum order for faster booting. < (depending on the rev of the 11/23... only Rev.C could < do so). I've found earlier revs do, but not all and they may fail diagnostics while appearing to work normally. I try to reserve 11/23 (KDF11-A M8186) to 256k unless I've verified it's a REV-C or later and tested it. The later 11/23B (KDF11-B M8189) is Q22 and saves needing a boot rom/card. They are common enough. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:38:40 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808181738.AA22728@world.std.com> < then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down < to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized < 'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the < backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was < a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large < holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting < corresponding pins of successive backplane slots... I have a bunch of them still, for exactly that use! Handy for home made backplanes! Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 12:38:51 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808181738.AA22944@world.std.com> < Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of < Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it < goin'. Sounds like a good thing. There are people in RI and south RI doing this as well. Allison From william at ans.net Tue Aug 18 12:53:38 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market In-Reply-To: <199808181718.AA04066@world.std.com> Message-ID: > >Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our > >raggedy group? > > I'd join...! Hey, Providence is not too far away. (Blatant RetroComputing Society ot Rhode Island plug). William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 18 13:08:25 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >As far as I know, all DEC versions of the VT103 came > >with an 18 bit backplane for the QBus. If an LSI-11/03 > >is used, I understand it may be ill advised to make any > >changes in the backplane, as well as fruitless, since this > >CPU can use only a maximum of 56 KBytes of memory > >in any case. Besides the VT103 name plate on the front, how else can I tell that I'm looking at a VT103, or perhaps a VT100 with a Qbus backplane? Are there any tell tale signs on the back of the unit? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 18 13:20:13 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? Message-ID: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i can do for you people out there who want these. -Eric From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Aug 18 13:17:58 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: VT103 spotting... In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 18, 98 11:08:25 am Message-ID: <199808181817.OAA08960@shell.monmouth.com> > > Besides the VT103 name plate on the front, how else can I tell that I'm > looking at a VT103, or perhaps a VT100 with a Qbus backplane? Are there > any tell tale signs on the back of the unit? > Pop the four white plastic hold downs (if they still work) 8-( and lift off the cover. You could see the Qbus backplane. and then see the power supply type. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 18 13:28:15 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: VT103 spotting... In-Reply-To: <199808181817.OAA08960@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > Besides the VT103 name plate on the front, how else can I tell that I'm > > looking at a VT103, or perhaps a VT100 with a Qbus backplane? Are there > > any tell tale signs on the back of the unit? > > Pop the four white plastic hold downs (if they still work) 8-( > and lift off the cover. You could see the Qbus backplane. > and then see the power supply type. What power supply type would I look for? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 18 13:35:38 1998 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> from Poesie at "Aug 18, 98 01:20:13 pm" Message-ID: <199808181835.OAA01924@hiway1.exit109.com> > i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > can do for you people out there who want these. Older PowerPC's? Ooh... can I have a 6100 (the CPU box that is)? Can you get entire systems? If not, I'd still love to get ROM SIMMs for an SE/30 and a IIsi. Also, a IIsi Ethernet board, if you can find one. Any accelerator cards? One last thing, how about an Orange Micro 386 or 486 board? Thanks... <<>> From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 18 13:35:15 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Bell Labs CARDIAC found! In-Reply-To: <199808181435.JAA22879@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 18, 98 09:28:08 am Message-ID: <199808181835.OAA22957@user2.infinet.com> To all fans of that ancient computer learning tool, the Bell Labs CARDIAC, I have finally succeded in my quest thanks to a generous tip from someone whose name has been lost in my overloaded home directory. The company that got the distribution rights to Bell Labs educational products is... Comspace Corp. 243 Dixon Ave. Amityville, NY 11701 1.516.789.0700 (v) 1.516.789.0890 (f) The CARDIAC is $14.95 plus $5 S&H/Ins in the U.S. Apparently, quantity discounts are available, but why you'd need more than one or two (one to scribble on, one to keep pristine), I don't know, unless you have lots of geeky nieces and nephews. The CARDIAC itself comes as a tri-folded piece of die-cut cardboard that unfolds to larger than 11"x17". 2/3 of it are the main body, the last 1/3 is the moving parts - slides for the accumulator, the op code and two address digits. The ladybugs that someone mentioned are the shape of a tennis racket - the shaft goes in a hole corresponding to the current program counter, the ladybug sticks out like a flag. Assembly looks pretty straightforward. Punch. Fold. Glue. At first glance the programming reminds me of a BCD PDP-8. There are 10 opcodes: 0 INP Input 1 CLA Clear and Add 2 ADD Add 3 TAC Test Accumulator contents 4 SFT Shift 5 OUT Output 6 STO Store 7 SUB Subtract 8 JMP Jump 9 HRS Halt and Reset Each of the 100 storage cells hold a three digit number - an opcode and two digit BCD operand, or three digit data. The "first program" looks like this... 17 034 Read "A" 18 035 Read "B" 19 134 Clear accumulator and add A 20 235 Add B ("S" is not in accumulator) 21 636 Store S 22 536 Print S 23 900 Halt and reset To "run" the program, you write in the numbers in the appropriate cells, write the two numbers to be added on an input strip, stick the bug in cell 17, and stick a blank "output" card in the output slot, then follow the flow diagram printed on the front of the CARDIAC. Towards the end of the booklet, the programming gets more and more complicated until CARDIAC can play NIM. I'm glad I finally tracked one down. I can see how many people remember it fondly (my own early experiences were with the Digicomp which is not so easy to find. I'd *gladly* pay $20 for one of those, even broken). In addition to the CARDIAC, Comspace also has other educational aids and books that were an outgrowth of Bell Labs science educational programs. When you call, tell them Ethan sent you. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 18 13:40:15 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Aug 18, 98 01:20:13 pm Message-ID: <199808181840.OAA23182@user2.infinet.com> > > i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > can do for you people out there who want these. The 68K Macs didn't have much socketed on them. The ROMs are of course useful if you want to run AMAX or some other emulator, _or_ if you have an SE and need the FDHD (1.44Mb) upgrade. Floppy drives are worth keeping, if that's even possible, most of the rest is undetachable. I expect the hard disks (which are typically Apple branded in their ROMs) have already been scavenged. ROMs are 28 pin on SE's and such. As I said, not a lot was ever socketed, not even the CPU. 68K processors aren't worth more than a couple of bucks. A 68030 is worth less than $20, new, let alone pried off a board. -ethan From adept at Mcs.Net Tue Aug 18 13:48:18 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181840.OAA23182@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: I would really like an Apple ROMmed CDROM drive for my Centris. :) Dan On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > > warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > > older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > > scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > > them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > > WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > > can do for you people out there who want these. > From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 18 13:48:39 1998 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181840.OAA23182@user2.infinet.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Aug 18, 98 02:40:15 pm" Message-ID: <199808181848.OAA03961@hiway1.exit109.com> > ROMs are 28 pin on SE's and such. As I said, not a lot was ever socketed, > not even the CPU. 68K processors aren't worth more than a couple of bucks. > A 68030 is worth less than $20, new, let alone pried off a board. OTOH, a full 68040 (not the 68LC040 or whatever they called the coprocessorless version) would be quite valuable to someone with one of the low-cost Performas that only had the LC. <<>> From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 18 13:52:01 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181840.OAA23182@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The 68K Macs didn't have much socketed on them. The ROMs are of course > useful if you want to run AMAX or some other emulator, _or_ if you have > an SE and need the FDHD (1.44Mb) upgrade. Floppy drives are worth This is also a good opporunity for those of us who have Outbound portables or similar Mac clones to get Mac ROMs for them (Apple never licensed any of these clone makers to use the Mac ROMs...you had to pull the ROMs out of your deskbound Mac to use the portables). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ecloud at goodnet.com Tue Aug 18 14:03:57 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Aug 18, 98 01:20:13 pm Message-ID: <199808181903.MAA26851@goodnet.com> > i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > can do for you people out there who want these. Why can't you save them? I think most anybody would rather have a little money for their junk than nothing at all? -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * 808 State * packet radio & tcp/ip * I ping therefore I ham! * emusic * From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 18 13:52:01 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808182048.QAA29747@charity.harvard.net> (in his best Rodney King voice) Can't we all just get along? Actually, for me, Providence is quite a haul :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:54 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market > > > > >Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users > group with our > > >raggedy group? > > > > I'd join...! > > Hey, Providence is not too far away. > > (Blatant RetroComputing Society ot Rhode Island plug). > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > From rax at warbaby.com Tue Aug 18 15:37:27 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Vintage Calculators Message-ID: I'm passing this along from the Dead Media Collectorz list in case anyone is interested in vintage calculators. R. From: "Seth D. Carmichael" To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Subject: [collectorz] FW: for collectorz Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:56:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Message-Id: <000901bdcad1$84585900$9c89b1cd@seth> List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 2.54, List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Help: Reply-To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Sender: collectorz-admin@lists.tmn.com Precedence: bulk X-Lyris-To: [rax@warbaby.com] X-Lyris-MemberID: 2557 X-Lyris-MessageID: 8712 Status: U Please respond directly to Nick: nbodley@tiac.net Seth *************************************** From nbodley at tiac.net Fri Aug 14 22:07:18 1998 From: nbodley at tiac.net (Nicholas Bodley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Folks, This message might be borderline annoying to some, in which case I humbly apologize, but I really wanted to give it a bit wider distribution than its original list. I'd be very sad if they didn't sell and had to be trashed; not quite like "Save the whales!" Sales pitch follows, which you can happily ignore! Deleting is quite OK! This is an unusual opportunity to obtain an historic machine of at least some interest. These, as the message says, need cleaning up, but apparently most are in good shape internally. I have no connection with the seller, but believe him to be reputable; he made a similar offer several months back, and there have been no complaints at all about him on the List. (Cliff, you can ignore all of what follows; if I got anything wrong, feel free to holler, of course! (Cliff has an STW in tip-top condition.)) The Friden STW was the standard desktop calculator of choice, widely used, for scientists and engineers for several decades. It was the successor to the ST, which was probably first sold in the early 1930s. (Yes, the Depression! Friden started a successful company in Terrible Times. It took an acquisition by Singer to destroy it.) If you have any interest in historic calculators, this is an excellent and very representative example. These machines had a different architecture from today's electronic calculators, which I won't try to explain (the message is too long, already!). It's a motor-driven rotary machine with no printer, and a carriage. Its capacity was usually 10x10x20, which is to say that it could multiply two 10-digit numbers and display a 20-digit product. The Friden STWs were very reliable and trustworthy when properly cared for. It does all four operations of arithmetic automatically; also can do d=a+(b*c) and d=a-(b*c). (These can be chained, so that the new a is the old d, and new b and c are arbitrary, although either or both b and/or c can be the same as the previous.) (Super-slow DSP, anyone?!) Iirc, you can also display the sum or difference of two or more quotients. It's practical to compute square roots on it by at least two methods, I'm fairly sure. One uses a printed lookup table (hard to find); the other is a clever semi-mindless algorithm called the "fives method". There are severe limitations on automatic transfers of numbers within the machine; essentially, almost none. The numbers in the keyboards and the results dials can be kept for the next calculation, however. It has 10 columns of keys, 9 keys + a clear key in each column. You could consider this a parallel-entry keyboard. (It was called a "full keyboard.") The STW also has the unique, distinctive little 10-key serial-entry multiplier section. There are such features as selectively disabling the auto. clearing of the main keyboard, also of the accumulator and/or the cycle counter dials. Little knobs allow you to rotate the accumulator dials to preset them (such as for rounding numbers). Many clever applications were worked out based on accessibility of the individual parts of the machine, so to speak. Decimal points are not calculated by the mechanism at all, but there are markers to keep things simple. Speed is 600 cycles per minute. One limitation is that subtracting one from the LSD of all zeros does not give a string of 20 nines; you get about 14, iirc, on a standard machine. "Full carryover" was an option. I think there is a warning bell to signify an accumulator "sign change". Just about sure that a stock Belden power cord will fit, but not sure Belden still sells that particular item. (Sorry; don't have a Belden catalog any more.) (It has three round pins, male on the calc, iirc, and the center pin is offset and probably longer. It was a standard until the rectangular-pin IEC connector so well known in computers supplanted it.) Hmmm... budding free-lance ad copywriter? (Heaven save us!) No doubt, some work will be needed; it would be much wiser to remove the covers and try to cycle the machine by hand to see that it doesn't jam. The main driveshaft has a female threaded hole in the end for a handcrank that you could make. If the machine jams under power, there is a fiber gear (so I'm told by an experienced Friden tech.) that might become damaged; he says it's a Major Pain to replace if you can get the part, and parts are hard to come by! There is a crude safety clutch (makes a terrible racket!), but it may not disengage before the fiber gear strips. Again, my apologies for the intrusion. |* Nicholas Bodley *|* Electronic Technician {*} Autodidact & Polymath |* Waltham, Mass. *|* ----------------------------------------------- |* nbodley@tiac.net *|* The personal computer industry will have become |* Amateur musician *|* mature when crashes become unacceptable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 08:19:35 -0400 From: Julian Burke To: CALCLIST-L@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL Subject: Friden STW's for sale Hello All, I'm not in this for profit but want to see these units go to the right hands for collecting. I have a huge quantity of Friden STW's for sale @ $30 each. These are as-is complete, dirty from long term storage, might be missing a button or two and NO power cords. $30 + shipping and packing from Knoxville, Tennessee. They will weigh 44 pounds each packed, so consult with UPS for shipping prices from ZIP code 37909. If interested, I have "worse" (needing more cleanup or for parts) for less and better units for more. Most people who have purchased from me before say the insides look great and after a good "typewriter bath", they survived very well. Hurry while selection is good. I have hundreds of calcs for possible trade (cash also) and am looking for a WANG 360SE at this time. (Suitcase with 4 slave calcs from the mid 70's) Thanks, Julian Burke To unsubscribe send the command: unsubscribe CALCLIST-L to LISTSERV@techunix.technion.ac.il The email address of this list is : CALCLIST-L@techunix.technion.ac.il --- You are currently subscribed to collectorz as: [rax@warbaby.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to unsubscribe-collectorz@lists.tmn.com -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Aug 18 14:37:24 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181835.OAA01924@hiway1.exit109.com> from "John Ruschmeyer" at Aug 18, 98 02:35:38 pm Message-ID: <199808181937.PAA24481@shell.monmouth.com> > Older PowerPC's? Ooh... can I have a 6100 (the CPU box that is)? Can > you get entire systems? Me first 8-) > > If not, I'd still love to get ROM SIMMs for an SE/30 and a IIsi. Also, > a IIsi Ethernet board, if you can find one. Any accelerator cards? > One last thing, how about an Orange Micro 386 or 486 board? > > Thanks... <<>> > Add another one -- I'd love MacIIfx SIMMS. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Aug 18 14:38:43 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: VT103 spotting... In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 18, 98 11:28:15 am Message-ID: <199808181938.PAA25161@shell.monmouth.com> > > On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > > > Besides the VT103 name plate on the front, how else can I tell that I'm > > > looking at a VT103, or perhaps a VT100 with a Qbus backplane? Are there > > > any tell tale signs on the back of the unit? > > > > Pop the four white plastic hold downs (if they still work) 8-( > > and lift off the cover. You could see the Qbus backplane. > > and then see the power supply type. > > What power supply type would I look for? > I'll look up the part number when I can get to mine... Perhaps Megan or Allison can jump in here. Anyone got a source of VT100 snap stuff? Bill From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Tue Aug 18 15:51:57 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:02 2005 Subject: New acquisition Message-ID: Don't know if this is classic but I just got an entire VMS 5.2 'grey wall'free. Allison - can I reliably use this as a reference for my 5.5 system? Now to learn eve and then VAX Macro. Regards Pete From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 19 15:53:20 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K/heat Message-ID: <199808182058.QAA10285@gate.usaor.net> More like a crummy computer. I think the school had bought it used for $50 (or it was donated), and it wouldn't even run Win 3.1. It had Win 3.0 (1 MEG RAM). When I was looking at it, the power supply (this is from 1991) pumped out a huge 32 watts. I'm surprised that the thing lasted as long as it did. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K/heat > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:51 AM > > > < Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan > < working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY ti > > The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not > good for some systems. > > Likely it was a crummy fan. > > Allison > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 18 16:08:57 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction Message-ID: <199808182243.SAA15726@charity.harvard.net> Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! Holycow! Tony From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Tue Aug 18 12:21:29 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K/heat In-Reply-To: <199808182058.QAA10285@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808182057.QAA30031@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:53:20 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Jason Willgruber" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K/heat > X-To: > More like a crummy computer. I think the school had bought it used for $50 > (or it was donated), and it wouldn't even run Win 3.1. It had Win 3.0 (1 > MEG RAM). When I was looking at it, the power supply (this is from 1991) > pumped out a huge 32 watts. I'm surprised that the thing lasted as long as > it did. More like sleeve than ball bearing type in that fan. Is that one of those foot square by 3" thick slab computer with 1 slot in it? Don't knock those early 386 to 486 tandy boxens... they're much better built especially those circuit boards, PSU's, floppy drives. I had worked on several series that used 2 cone head screws to take slip on plastic (just for looks not support) case off and 2 screws more to take the ISA slot cover off and swing the other half up (that holds the all drives, PSU and push-push swtich with it's green LED in it). Those cases are excellent for basic linux boxens and beginner pc for low-budget guys. Cooling is not too bad on that one and uses only ball bearing fans. These bios is the early auto-detect parameters for IDE hd's, user defineable specs plus few hd types. Case of this type has 1 + 1 3.5" x 1" bays and 5.25" bay but that bay also have mounting holes for HH 3.5" drives. All can be external or internal by use of bezels. Did tandy make cached 386dx or cached 486 motherboards? as I have not yet seen one that has L2 cache on board. I only saw 386sx (yuk) and 486dx/sx (sorta ok without L2 cache). At least 2 brands used that same chassis. Victor and Tandy. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Aug 18 16:20:39 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? Message-ID: <199808182120.OAA26740@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a >warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to >older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being >scrapped and i cannot save them Why can't you save them? >anyone want me to pull some roms for them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT >they are, and WHERE they are How about a Power Mac motherboard or two? :-) More realistically, I'd be interested in any PowerPC processors & ROMs. Some of this stuff is probably more trouble to remove than its worth, though. How much did you want for the componets? Sincerely, Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 12:54:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller and DFV-11A Controller In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 17, 98 06:07:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1283 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/0aa42338/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 12:57:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817230501.006dc474@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Aug 17, 98 11:07:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 158 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/26703004/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Aug 18 16:44:37 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: RSX-11M v4.1 In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "RSX-11M v4.1" (Aug 18, 7:57) References: Message-ID: <9808182244.ZM24308@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 18, 7:57, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Subject: RSX-11M v4.1 > OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is > supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the disks > seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the > Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount. > > Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels. > > RSX-11M V4.1 | > RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of > RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot. > Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try to load > > RSX-11M V4.1 > EXCPRV V1 > HLPDCL V2 > Copied 06/19/84 > > RSX-11M V4.1 > MCRSRC V1 > Copied 06/19/84 > > RSX-11M V4.1 | > ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load it. > UPDATE V2 | > ACS MODS V3 | > Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 | > > Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and based > on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN. > What on earth is the third pack? MCR is the standard command line interpreter, prior to DCL, and that disk is the source for building it. > Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged? No, it looks like you have an RL01 distribution (which IIRC came on 6 packs) but copied to RL02s, two RL01s to a pack. It's been a long time, but I think RL02 distributions were 4 packs, called something like RSXM35 (that's a bootable baseline minimal system, with the SYSGEN stuff on it, like yours), MAPSRC (sources to build a mapped system) UNMSRC (to build an unmapped system) and the last pack had all the extra software (EDT, DCL, and friends). The fourth pack you have is possibly an update and may not be necessary. But my memory may be playing its usual tricks. > Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to play > with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the > emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs to > go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite. Best of luck! I suspect you have enough to rebuild the system, if you can read the packs, and perhaps there are more amongst the ones you have yet to check. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 18 16:59:09 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: PET graphics board (RE: C64 for $800) Message-ID: | -----Original Message----- | From: Larry Anderson [mailto:foxnhare@goldrush.com] | Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 6:54 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: C64 for $800 | | just try | to find docs for a PET MTU graphics board (like I am), I have a collection of | a lifetime. Hmm, I'm pretty sure I have docs for that. What was the MTU again? I have like ridiculously extensive PET docs including the service manuals and service update notices, service test tapes & disks, etc. Heck, come to think of it, I have a PET high res graphics board of some kind in a box someplace. Is that what this thing is? Kai From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 18 19:09:04 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <7847@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808182216.RAA25544@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Yeah, right. This whole thing's a put-on, I'm convinced. Jeff At 05:08 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! > >Holycow! > >Tony > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 17:12:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altair up for Auction In-Reply-To: <199808182243.SAA15726@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! Looks like the same machine. So, that means the record price for an Altair is a mere $4213 (!). Probably some slick Altair dealer contacted Ms. Lemay and offered her a shiny low-mileage Altair for only half of her $12,100 bid. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 17:19:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altair up for Auction In-Reply-To: <199808182216.RAA25544@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > This whole thing's a put-on, I'm convinced. I asked the seller. Ms. Lemay backed out. And we all know who sold an Altair to the second highest bidder. So, that leaves two overzealous overbidders out of the running and a nasty old Altair with a $10K reserve. Doesn't look too promising. -- Doug From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Tue Aug 18 17:56:00 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <016c01bdcafb$60b63d80$924c8bc0@mgb119> Hello - I just joined this list and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm an avid classic computer collector and a big fan of the TRS-80/Tandy Color Computers which were sold by Radio Shack. I have a homepage which is dedicated to them: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/coco.html I have approximately 30 computers in my collection (if you include 'doubles'). Of interest are an Apple III and an Apple Lisa (Mac XL), an AT&T Unix PC, Commodore Plus4, a backlit Apple Mac Portable (not the powerbook - the very early one) and some odd little early computer called a "Micro Professor". It has a chicklett keyboard - came from Japan and has a built-in BASIC language, but not much else. Since money is tight right now (and what spending money I do have usually goes to my Marklin model railway) I'm more interested in picking up the cheaper collectibles - things like a Commodore 16, Mattel Aquarius, Atari 800 (not xl) etc etc. Have you seen the Altairs on Ebay lately! Wow, $10000 reserve on one of them. Hope to chat with you all soon! Markus Blumrich - mailto:ab594@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Student: Physiology & Computer Science / University of Saskatchewan http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/Profile.html ICQ:12361373 "Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 18 18:00:17 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altair up for Auction Message-ID: Probably the same ex-MITS person who contacted me last weekend. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 3:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Another Altair up for Auction On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! Looks like the same machine. So, that means the record price for an Altair is a mere $4213 (!). Probably some slick Altair dealer contacted Ms. Lemay and offered her a shiny low-mileage Altair for only half of her $12,100 bid. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 18:13:25 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: The New MORBBS Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:31:03 +0000 From: John Huddleston Subject: The New MORBBS Hi, You may have heard of the old Morrow Owners Review Bulletin Board that was run by Sypko Andrae for so many years until he transfered ownership to Jay and John Huddleston of Anacortes, Washington. We had the MORBBS for a couple years until cost became a problem and we were forced to shutdown the MORBBS. But now there is a newer, more accessible, and definetly cheaper MORBBS on the internet. The new board is hosted by sos.net and there are two sections to the Morrow page. The first section is located at http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/morrow.html and it is designed to let you ask for help or for CPM related files from Jay's huge archive. The second section of the page is the messageboard itself. You can find the messageboard at http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/bbs/index.html. The messageboard works through a CGI script written in the PERL programming language. You can post messages on the board just like on the old bulletin board only quicker. This way you can ask for help in a message and everyone who reads it will be able to offer their services. The message board is also useful for announcing any hardware, software, etc that is related to Morrow computers and/or CPM software. You aren't just limited to Morrow though. Anything you wish to discuss about old computers is acceptable. There are going to be many helpful post on the message board in the near future with links to helpful or interesting Morrow/CPM websites. I hope that you are still interested in Morrows and old computers and that will join us at our new messageboard soon! Thanks for your time, John Huddleston the Morrow Online Homepage: http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/morrow.html the Morrow Owners Review Online Messageboard: http://www.sos.net/~jlhudd/bbs/index.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 18 18:03:57 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980818180357.006b5f54@pop3.concentric.net> If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several of them, Please ask them At 01:20 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a >warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to >older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being >scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for >them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and >WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i >can do for you people out there who want these. > >-Eric > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 18 18:40:30 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181840.OAA23182@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <13380874786.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> If you have the disk drive and 1.44 meg ROMS from an SE, that would be nice... Got any 512 keyboards/mice/bootdisks? ------- From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Aug 18 19:19:12 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <016c01bdcafb$60b63d80$924c8bc0@mgb119> from "Markus Blumrich" at Aug 18, 98 04:56:00 pm Message-ID: <199808190019.RAA28944@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980818/fe0173d3/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 19:41:05 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market Message-ID: <199808190041.AA24179@world.std.com> >Hey, Providence is not too far away. Maybe I should head down that way some time with Allison... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Aug 18 18:24:44 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Question about DHQ11-Ms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a pair of DHQ11-Ms in my MicroVax II. I've been fooling around with connecting one of the ports to my little Livingston terminal server so I can telnet to it. Alas, I left my breakout box at work! At any rate, are the female DB-25 bulkhead connectors true RS-232 or some weirdie mutation like the console DB-9 port? Also, I've got a DECMate III in the garage with no monitor or keyboard. But it's got an RX50 and some RD series drive. Obviously the RX50 can be moved to the MVII since it doesn't have one (but does have an RQDX3) but what about the RD series hard disk? I'd like to put it on the MVII for extra storage capacity but I seem to recall from playing with the MicroPDP I used to have that formatting etc issues with RD drives on DEC gear can be...uh...funky. Suggestions, advice? I figure if I can get it hooked up to the terminal server it'll be alot easier to seek help from more knowledgable individuals as I can ask them to simply telnet into it and look around. =-D I did ALOT of Dibol programming for my jobs on MicroVaxen back in 88-89 and alot of related database work, and then Macro, Pascal, DCL etc in college on the 11/780 which was upgrade to an 8600 and later some weird little 4000ish creature. But I never did that much administration work so I'm having ALL kinds of fun trying to control myself from playing with things like authorize too much. ;-D Also, although it includes Macro (of course) it includes NO other language development tools. Apparently it was a turnkey type system for reading utility meters. Field service last logged-in in '92!!! And it's got 13000some blocks free on the disk. I'm tempted to get things like the GNU C binaries for it etc etc...and I always give in to that sort of temptation! =) Once I've got good backups, got it cleaned out suitably, got the meter reading stuff turned off and removed, got security under my belt etc etc...I'll probably just give away accounts to interested folks and leave it on the terminal server 24/7. Maybe I can finally get my Put-Obsolete-Machines-On-The-Net project going. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 16:58:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <199808182243.SAA15726@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818165859.3a67b284@intellistar.net> At 05:08 PM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! I hope E-OverPay eats him up with the listing fee! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 17:07:15 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818170715.4fd72f2a@intellistar.net> I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it? I've never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive and two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals are included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth? Is it usefull for anything? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 18:18:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <199808172230.SAA29751@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818181825.4fd70e04@intellistar.net> At 05:28 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hmmm... Is the 4046 the SCSI Floppy Disk/Hard Disk rack mountable unit? I don't know if it's SCSI or not but it certainly has a enough contacts to be. It's about the same size as the 4041, 7 x 8 1/2 x 22 inches. It isn't made to mount in a rack but you could calmp it to a shelf in the rack I suppose. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 18:46:19 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: New toy! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818184619.4fd705a4@intellistar.net> I got another HP toy today. Another HP 9821! I already have one and this is only the third one in existance that I know of. A collector in New York has the other one. Does anyone know where I can find some manuals for a HP 9820 or HP 9821? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 19:26:43 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980817153746.0a7f4502@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818192643.3a6f385c@intellistar.net> At 02:44 AM 8/18/98 +0100, Tony wrote: >> >years), it's reliable. And it's no harder to work on, given the manual >than anything else. Yes, well that's the problem. Most people here in the US won't even read their car's owner's manual much less go BUY a service manual and read it! Joe (who has a service manual for every car he owns and some even for cars he doesn't own.) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 19:34:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980817155507.460f6dc4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818193408.3a6f5154@intellistar.net> At 08:00 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Strange coincidence, I just picked up another today (my second, the first >doesn't pass self test). Hint! Mine didn't either at first. It gave a bunch of ROM errors. I unplugged the ROM drawer and it passed self tests. Then I took out the ROMs and found one with one of it's pins bent under. I straightened the pin and put everything back in place and now it passes all tests. I know only a little about it from the manuals I >got with the first. The only thing I know about the keyboards is that >they are difficult to find, as I've never seen one yet. I can believe it. I know a guy that has six 4041s and he still hasn't found a keyboard. > >Its 68000 based and has a backplane inside so you can add or remove cards. >If you look carefully at the bottom face of the unit, you'll notice it is >a little cover about 1" high and the length of the front of the machine. >You can pry it off with a coin, then pull on the rubber handle you see. >Out pops a ROM tray. The one I got today has the Graphics ROM and >thegraphics printing option. Mine has the Program Developement ROMs and two other ROMs with Tektronix part numbers but no name. They show up as PD, XO and IO in the self test failure listing. > >You don't necessarily need the keyboard to program it although it helps >I'm sure. I'll bet! I'm still looking for a keyboard for my HP 9915s too! Joe > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 19:39:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <199808181315.JAA15977@user2.infinet.com> References: <199808180651.CAA29368@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818193932.3a6f0018@intellistar.net> BTW I have two 8 bit ISA HP-IB cards with no manufacturers name on them. They have a palm tree emblem and the number "6323706", "Made in USA" and "GPIB" on them. Anyone got an idea who they're made by? Definitly not National Instruments. Joe At 09:15 AM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >> > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? >> > >> > manney@lrbcg.com >> > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides > >What is the card? What drivers? I have a couple of 8-bit IEEE-488 cards >and _no_ drivers. It's a standard, but old, National Instruments card. If >you tell me the model number of yours, I'll check it against mine when I get >home. I'd love drivers for it. > >-ethan > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 19:37:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <016c01bdcafb$60b63d80$924c8bc0@mgb119> from "Markus Blumrich" at Aug 18, 98 04:56:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/2c53c09f/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 18 19:56:56 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? References: <3.0.3.32.19980818180357.006b5f54@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <35DA22D8.97A99604@cnct.com> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several > of them, Please ask them > At 01:20 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: > >i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > >warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > >older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > >scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > >them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > >WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > >can do for you people out there who want these. I'll follow up on that. Why are they scrapping them all so soon? Not even the SE/30 IIRC yet qualifies as a "classic" by our standards, and I'd love to grab some PowerPC boxes to play with (help with finishing the port to those platforms) Linux on. What's the company? I'll email the CEO (more likely his secretary) if need be. Come on, Eric, give us more detail -- oh, and which edge of the continent it's on. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Aug 18 18:39:33 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: For Trade: 11/24 CPU and 512k Unibus Memory Card In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818192643.3a6f385c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: I have the following that came from a DEC Communications Server: M7133 KDF11-UA U 11/24 CPU board, line clock & 2 SLUs (Revision D or earlier) M8743-AA MDECS-AA U 512-Kbyte ECC RAM (Also M8743-AB, -AC, -AD, -AE, -AF, -AH, -AJ, -AK, -AL, -AM, -AN, -AP, -AV) Although I'm uncertain of the equitability of such a trade, I'm mostly interested in a Q-Bus ethernet board for my MicroVax II. From the communications server I already got a Unibus ethernet controller: M7792 DEUNA U DEUNA port module, UNIBUS to ethernet microprocessor. (1 of 2) M7793 DEUNA U DEUNA link module, M7792 to ethernet bus line unit. (2 of 2) So I'd like to lay my hands on a controller for the MVII so I can put my PDP-11/84 and the MVII on my in-house ethernet. I'll also consider other interesting trades. Because I'm frequently miserable about getting stuff shipped out to people, and assuming I know you from the list, I'll send the boards BEFORE you ship your part to me. I haven't burned anyone yet but there's one person who has a legitimate beef with me. I'm not evil...just slow. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 18 19:54:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818192643.3a6f385c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 18, 98 07:26:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/02cacde8/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 19 20:26:05 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? Message-ID: <199808190130.VAA09024@gate.usaor.net> Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. How much are they asking for it? If it's not that much, it may be worth it just to get it and see just what the heck it actually was for... -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:07 PM > > I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it? I've > never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's > supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local > Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI > Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive and > two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals are > included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth? > Is it usefull for anything? > > Joe > From wpe at interserv.com Tue Aug 18 20:32:05 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market References: <199808181643.AA29457@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35DA2B15.9B9AD566@interserv.com> I may not be able to always make it to meetings, but, count me in! Will Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our > < raggedy group? > > Tony, > > That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step. > > Allison From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Tue Aug 18 20:38:09 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. References: <3.0.1.16.19980818181825.4fd70e04@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35DA2C81.D08DF5E9@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Joe wrote: > > At 05:28 PM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hmmm... Is the 4046 the SCSI Floppy Disk/Hard Disk rack mountable unit? > > I don't know if it's SCSI or not but it certainly has a enough contacts > to be. It's about the same size as the 4041, 7 x 8 1/2 x 22 inches. It > isn't made to mount in a rack but you could calmp it to a shelf in the rack > I suppose. > > Joe Reason I ask is that when I used to work for a company called Peripheral Land long ago, we used to make a SCSI Floppy/Hard drive combo box for Tek. I personally built a ton of 'em. Tony From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Aug 18 19:31:21 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A: Identify board? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I got to looking around in the 11/34a I got from Washington University. Mostly it's pretty standard stuff (was hoping for some lab interfacing boards) but alas there are none made by DEC. *sniff sniff* But I did not recognize one board that has a big thick cable coming out of it which appears to terminate in nothing standard: It is a Tennecomp Systems TP-000020B. Is it a printer interface? Lab interfacing? There is a rack face plate mounted in the bottom of the rack that has A/D D/A type connectors and labels on it but I haven't been able to pull things apart enough to tell if the cable from the board will/does terminate there. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From fauradon at pclink.com Tue Aug 18 20:50:29 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Twin Cities get together Message-ID: <004e01bdcb13$cf8d4100$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi, This is a message for all of you in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, St Paul and surroundings) I've allways wanted to meet some of you guys so I'll try to organize a get together open to anyone. Here's the scoop: The place: Tequilaberries in Coon Rapids (all you can eat prime ribs for around $15) The date: Friday August 28 The time: 6:00 pm The people: Me and anyone who cares to join but you must repond to me in advance since I'll probably have to make reservations. Please respond to fauradon@pclink.com THanks and see you soon. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Aug 18 20:51:18 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market In-Reply-To: <35DA2B15.9B9AD566@interserv.com> References: <199808181643.AA29457@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808190151.BAA01749@cyber2.servtech.com> Although I'm about 530 miles west of Boston and 425 miles due west of Danbury, CT, at the Western End of NY State, consider me a definite supporter of this idea. Nothing else organized, computerwise, anywhere near this place. -- Chris At 21:32 18-08-98 -0400, Will Emerson wrote: >I may not be able to always make it to meetings, but, count me in! > > Will > > >Allison J Parent wrote: >> >> < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users group with our >> < raggedy group? >> >> Tony, >> >> That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step. >> >> Allison > -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 20:53:37 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: New toy! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818184619.4fd705a4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > I got another HP toy today. Another HP 9821! I already have one and > this is only the third one in existance that I know of. A collector in New > York has the other one. Does anyone know where I can find some manuals > for a HP 9820 or HP 9821? So, what's the diff between the 9820 and 9821? You can probably get an idea of how rare they are by looking at the serial numbers on the two you have. I know a guy with 9820A docs. If you don't find them elsewhere, bug me, and I'll bug him for a copy. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 21:25:21 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Question about DHQ11-Ms Message-ID: <199808190225.AA24155@world.std.com> < At any rate, are the female DB-25 bulkhead connectors true RS-232 or som < weirdie mutation like the console DB-9 port? No, the PC DB9 is the mutant. ;) The DB25s are true RS232 with full handshake. < Also, I've got a DECMate III in the garage with no monitor or keyboard. < But it's got an RX50 and some RD series drive. Obviously the RX50 can b < moved to the MVII since it doesn't have one (but does have an RQDX3) but < what about the RD series hard disk? I'd like to put it on the MVII for < extra storage capacity but I seem to recall from playing with the The RD can be used but you'll need the customer formatter to format it for the RQDX3 instead of the DMIII controller. < Also, although it includes Macro (of course) it includes NO other < language development tools. Apparently it was a turnkey type system for No basic? < reading utility meters. Field service last logged-in in '92!!! And it' < got 13000some blocks free on the disk. I'm tempted to get things like < the GNU C binaries for it etc etc...and I always give in to that sort of < temptation! =) More disk, need more disk. It's good little box. Add a scsi controller like the CMD units and hang a real good sides disk... and wheee. Allison From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 18 21:35:10 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980818163153.48ff85fe@ricochet.net> At 02:44 AM 8/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Oh, actually I love it. It's unconventional, like all the classic Oooh, you are sick. 8^) >People who don't like Citroen hydraulics have either never owned such a >car, or have owned one, but let someone with no knowledge of how it >should work (aka 'a garage' :-)) look after it. Properly maintained We had quite a few when I was growing up (ds21's, mostly, including a wagon) and they were maintained by a Citroen-only shop, but still, I'd rather walk. (Citroen is pretty darn close to Citron, which of course means Lemon. 8^) And to relate it to classic computers, it was about 10 years ago that I drove through downtown SF in a Citroen with a flat tyre and Jerry Pournelle and several other muckity-mucks from McGraw-Hill(?) in the car with me. Very embarassing... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 18 21:24:31 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Twin Cities get together In-Reply-To: <004e01bdcb13$cf8d4100$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980818212431.006ad0b0@pop3.concentric.net> you can add my name to the list John Keys At 08:50 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, >This is a message for all of you in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, St Paul >and surroundings) >I've allways wanted to meet some of you guys so I'll try to organize a get >together open to anyone. Here's the scoop: >The place: Tequilaberries in Coon Rapids (all you can eat prime ribs for >around $15) >The date: Friday August 28 >The time: 6:00 pm >The people: Me and anyone who cares to join but you must repond to me in >advance since I'll probably have to make reservations. >Please respond to fauradon@pclink.com >THanks and see you soon. >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the desperately in need of update >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Aug 18 20:18:24 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Question about DHQ11-Ms In-Reply-To: <199808190225.AA24155@world.std.com> Message-ID: > No, the PC DB9 is the mutant. ;) The DB25s are true RS232 with full > handshake. > Hmmm...I'll check with my breakout box tomorrow and check the docs on the terminal server. Something goofy is up. If the terminal server was seeing the MVII, I would have been able to telnet to the port. Hmmm... > The RD can be used but you'll need the customer formatter to format it for > the RQDX3 instead of the DMIII controller. > Aha. I knew it. Is it hard or easy to get? > No basic? > No BASIC. I was a bit irritated with that. I think I need to find a decent VMS distribution on magtape or a TK50 cart. I have the controller for and a TS05 6250 bpi streaming tape drive. Not hooked up yet but if the MVII is any indication, it'll be just fine. > More disk, need more disk. > It's good little box. Add a scsi controller like the CMD units and hang a > real good sides disk... and wheee. Anyone want to trade one-a-dem for an 11/24 cpu and 512k memory board? =-D (Somehow I don't think anyone will go for that.) SCSI is where I always seem to fall down BTW. I need one for my 11/84 so I don't have to run the RA80 that's in it. Eeek. Big nasty power hog. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 22:07:51 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market References: <199808181643.AA29457@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808190307.AA27229@world.std.com> >Although I'm about 530 miles west of Boston and 425 miles due west of >Danbury, CT, at the Western End of NY State, consider me a definite >supporter of this idea. Nothing else organized, computerwise, anywhere >near this place. I'm interested, too... (and yes, I will be contacting the RCS/RI group) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 21:18:23 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <199808190130.VAA09024@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818211823.1d9f035e@intellistar.net> At 09:26 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. Very likely. Harris does a LOT of government work. Their satellite division (and others) are literally right around the corner from this place. How >much are they asking for it? "Make an offer". They bought it (probably dirt cheap) by mistake and know NOTHING about it. If it's not that much, it may be worth it >just to get it and see just what the heck it actually was for... Maybe. It's kinda big though. About a 30" cube. Ugly too, it looks kind of like a car that's been crushed. Joe >-- > -Jason >(roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > >---------- >> From: Joe >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? >> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:07 PM >> >> I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it? >I've >> never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's >> supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local >> Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI >> Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive >and >> two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals >are >> included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth? >> Is it usefull for anything? >> >> Joe >> > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 21:20:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <35DA2C81.D08DF5E9@joyce.eng.yale.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.19980818181825.4fd70e04@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818212007.1d9f242a@intellistar.net> At 09:38 PM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Reason I ask is that when I used to work for a company called Peripheral >Land long ago, we used to make a SCSI Floppy/Hard drive combo box for >Tek. I personally built a ton of 'em. > >Tony > That's interesting. Do you remember anything about them or what they had inside? I could get a picture and post it so you could see if that looks like it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 21:27:58 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980818180357.006b5f54@pop3.concentric.net> References: <35D9C5DD.784A@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818212758.1d9f7c62@intellistar.net> At 06:03 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several >of them, Please ask them If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens! Joe From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Tue Aug 18 22:40:59 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? Message-ID: <7909099@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Joe wrote: At 06:03 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several >of them, Please ask them If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens! Joe --- end of quote --- Oooh! Where? Where? -- Marion From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue Aug 18 22:42:41 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132030.PAA05367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> References: <7418@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808190342.NAA01591@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 03:23 PM 13-08-98 -0700, Jeff Kaneko wrote: >This is becomming worse than those damned BeanieBabies (tm). >Oy, I think I need a stiff drink now . . . And of course, if you follow the wine investment market you'll see similar results. At least in the computer investment spiral you can use the computer - not much money gets paid for empty bottles of Grange Hermitage (for an Australian wine example). The bit that worries me is that I'd really like an IMSAI but there are two problems. Firstly, not many made it this far south and if current owners start to see the prices paid in US dollars, I'll never afford one (US$12K = AUD$20K). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 18 22:44:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Question about DHQ11-Ms Message-ID: <199808190344.AA21428@world.std.com> < > No, the PC DB9 is the mutant. ;) The DB25s are true RS232 with full < > handshake. < > < Hmmm...I'll check with my breakout box tomorrow and check the docs on th < terminal server. Something goofy is up. If the terminal server was < seeing the MVII, I would have been able to telnet to the port. Hmmm... DCE vs DTE... < > The RD can be used but you'll need the customer formatter to format it < > the RQDX3 instead of the DMIII controller. < > < Aha. I knew it. Is it hard or easy to get? I don't have it but it's not that hard to find or copy. I use a MV2000 or RQDX3 formatter on PDP-11. < No BASIC. I was a bit irritated with that. I think I need to find a < decent VMS distribution on magtape or a TK50 cart. I have the controlle < for and a TS05 6250 bpi streaming tape drive. Not hooked up yet but if < the MVII is any indication, it'll be just fine. Well you can get the CDrom (see decus). Even if you don't have a CDrom on a VAX you may find someone that does. < Anyone want to trade one-a-dem for an 11/24 cpu and 512k memory board? < (Somehow I don't think anyone will go for that.) SCSI is where I always < seem to fall down BTW. I need one for my 11/84 so I don't have to run < the RA80 that's in it. Eeek. Big nasty power hog. unibus is always harder to find eithernet and SCSI boards for. For Qbus that would be less difficult as the DEQNA/DELQA and several vendors for scsi cards. Allison From altair8800 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 18 22:48:22 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction Message-ID: <19980819034822.2840.qmail@hotmail.com> >>Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve! > > I hope E-OverPay eats him up with the listing fee! > > Joe Actually, it costs him nothing to relist. The initial listing cost him $2 but he is afforded one free relist if the item does not meet it's reserve. Now, I know that many of you want to chase the moneychangers out of this temple. And some probably even think that I am the anti-christ who came in on a black helicopter. But please try to help me understand something. If I put something up for auction on Ebay I have not held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy anything. If, by their own free will, they make the decision to bid an amount that is more than the accepted value of that item then what have I done that is unethical? If someone goes to a high priced Mom and Pop hardware store and pays $30 for a Weller soldering iron when he can buy the same iron at Wal-mart for $20 did Mom and Pop do something unethical by offering the iron for $30? I know many of you have occupations in which you (or your employer) sell products or services at retail. And I'll bet some of it is sold at what many would deem "sucker" prices. Does that make you unethical? Simply because you are not willing to price at wholesale? What is the difference? Bob Wood > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 22:42:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <7909099@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818224207.3c078236@intellistar.net> At 11:40 PM 8/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >--- Joe wrote: >At 06:03 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >>If they are willing to sell the systems as is I would like to buy several >>of them, Please ask them > > > If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida >that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens! > > Joe >--- end of quote --- > >Oooh! Where? Where? > Two scrappers located in Melbourne, Florida. I can get you their phone numbers but I doubt they'd be interested in shipping anything unless you're willing to pay a handsome price. Joe >-- Marion > From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 19 22:48:41 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? Message-ID: <199808190353.XAA09093@gate.usaor.net> > Maybe. It's kinda big though. About a 30" cube. Ugly too, it looks > kind of like a car that's been crushed. > > Joe Well, then it's probably from the government. There's not too much pretty stuff from the government (going in and coming out). It would be interesting to see what's on those HD's. If it doesn't' have a monitor, it could have been some type of mainframe. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Tue Aug 18 23:03:33 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:03 2005 Subject: Another Altair up for Auction Message-ID: <021c01bdcb26$58442a60$924c8bc0@mgb119> >Actually, it costs him nothing to relist. The initial >listing cost him $2 but he is afforded one free relist >if the item does not meet it's reserve. This is only partly true: as soon as someone bids - Ebay takes 5% of the bid regardless of whether or not the reserve was met. So if last time the bids went up to $5000 - Ebay has billed him $250 + $2. So I don't know why he doesn't just start the lowest bid at his reserve price???? This is the same guy who lists a URL to an Ebay hints and tips page. Perhaps he has some kind of psychological angle... Markus Blumrich - mailto:ab594@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Student: Physiology & Computer Science / University of Saskatchewan http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/Profile.html ICQ:12361373 "Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 23:06:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <19980819034822.2840.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > out of this temple. And some probably even think that I > am the anti-christ who came in on a black helicopter. No, that would be Sam. > But please try to help me understand something. If I > put something up for auction on Ebay I have not held > a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy anything. > If, by their own free will, they make the decision to > bid an amount that is more than the accepted value > of that item then what have I done that is unethical? I don't see it as a matter of ethics, I see it as a matter of setting expectations. Ebay used to be a useful guide to "market" prices, but as far as I can tell, a single bidder came in and caused the high bids to increase from 4x to 10x from what they had been. This is clearly an anamoly, and I don't understand why the few sellers that know about this guy don't simply sell their entire inventory to him now and forget all about the ebay game. Why do I care? Because now anybody that has seen the action on ebay actually thinks that an Altair might be worth $10K or more. This causes three things to happen: 1) It actually does artifically raise the price. 2) It brings more people like you into the game to seek out the supply, and unlike the members of this temple, those with money as their motivation have no qualms with extremely obnoxious behavior like spamming usenet with "bring me your Altairs." 3) Those who would have gladly donated a machine to a good home now think there's $10K to be made, so they keep them until they get a $10K offer (i.e., they keep them until they die). -- Doug From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 18 23:06:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818193932.3a6f0018@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > BTW I have two 8 bit ISA HP-IB cards with no manufacturers name on them. > They have a palm tree emblem and the number "6323706", "Made in USA" and > "GPIB" on them. Anyone got an idea who they're made by? Definitly not > National Instruments. Yeah, Joe, I have one of those also and have not figured who made it over the course of a couple years. Agree that it is NOT National Instruments. They don't mind acknowledging that they built their cards! - don > At 09:15 AM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> > I came up with an IEEE488 8-bit card, with drivers. Anyone want it? > >> > > >> > manney@lrbcg.com > >> > "Enough is abundance to the wise." -- Euripides > > > >What is the card? What drivers? I have a couple of 8-bit IEEE-488 cards > >and _no_ drivers. It's a standard, but old, National Instruments card. If > >you tell me the model number of yours, I'll check it against mine when I get > >home. I'd love drivers for it. > > > >-ethan > > > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Tue Aug 18 23:11:37 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? Message-ID: <7909610@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- You wrote: > If they're not willing to sell them, I know two places here in Florida >that are! They scrap out MACs by the dozens! > > Joe >--- end of quote --- > >Oooh! Where? Where? > Two scrappers located in Melbourne, Florida. I can get you their phone numbers but I doubt they'd be interested in shipping anything unless you're willing to pay a handsome price. Joe --- end of quote --- I live within (notveryreasonable) driving distance -- please do tell me the phone numbers, or at least the names and I can call information. Thank you! -- MB From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 18 23:15:16 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: snip > Yep... I have the official manuals for the cars my father has owned since > I started seriously working on them, manuals for vehicles I'd like to own > one day (Land Rovers, older Citroens, etc), and manuals for vehicles that > have unusual designs (Manumatic transmission, Wilson Preselector > transmission, etc). Nowhere near as many manuals as my computer > documentation, but still a fairly large shelf. The Wilson Preselector, as I recall it, qualifies as a direct ancestor of the current genre of transmissions used in the present Formula 1 machines. Obviously there are differences in operation, but they were a generation or so ahead of everyone else. I recall them from the early sixties, and they were not new then! - don > -tony > > From william at ans.net Tue Aug 18 23:17:14 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2X found Message-ID: Coming back from a long road trip to Radiofest in Elgin, IL, I stopped by Fair Radio Sales in Lima, OH. On a shelf I saw what looked to be a decent Kaypro 2X. If anyone is interested, drop them an email (search the Web for the address). I have no idea what they wanted for it, nor its electrical condition. While there, I found a slim manual to the CDC 6000 series machines. Something about SCOPE...I suppose I ought to read it. I am also now the proud owner of an SGI 4D/380 (and most of another 4D/380). Physically it is in very good shape, but apparently it is quite sick. 8 processors, buckets of SIMMs, neeto graphics, but the best thing is the "CPU Power Meter" on the front of the cabinet... Does anyone have IRIX on 1/4" tape? William Donzelli william@ans.net From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 18 23:21:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <19980819034822.2840.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > If, by their own free will, they make the decision to > bid an amount that is more than the accepted value > of that item then what have I done that is unethical? Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We only know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So, what's with the first momentum-setting bid? -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 18 23:14:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: IEEE488 card available In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980818193932.3a6f0018@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980818231446.4d77c840@intellistar.net> At 09:06 PM 8/18/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > >> BTW I have two 8 bit ISA HP-IB cards with no manufacturers name on them. >> They have a palm tree emblem and the number "6323706", "Made in USA" and >> "GPIB" on them. Anyone got an idea who they're made by? Definitly not >> National Instruments. > >Yeah, Joe, I have one of those also and have not figured who made it over >the course of a couple years. Agree that it is NOT National >Instruments. They don't mind acknowledging that they built their cards! > > Don, Yeah, I called and quizzed NI TWICE to see if they had any idea who made it. No luck. A friend of mine has about six of the same cards so they seem to be very common. I don't know why it's so hard to find out who made them. Joe From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 18 23:25:04 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: New acquisition In-Reply-To: from "Pete Joules" at Aug 18, 98 09:51:57 pm Message-ID: <199808190425.WAA05686@calico.litterbox.com> IMHO you should be ok with the VMS 5.2 grey wall on 5.6. It won't tell you about some of the cool new stuff but unless you're in the system tuning book you should be ok. As far as Eve, to learn it, type edit/tpu filename then press pf0 and type help. (I think. been a while). -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue Aug 18 23:26:55 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808190426.OAA01854@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:12 PM 15-08-98 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote: >A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? Well I drive a 1985 Alfa Romeo but I always take it to the mechanics. The difference is that I spent seven years at Uni learning about computers and electronics and have been practising with them ever since. I think I know what I'm doing with computers and I know I don't know enough about cars to work on them! Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Tue Aug 18 23:36:26 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199808190436.OAA01921@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:03 PM 16-08-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >THat sounds like a VT103. It _is_ a Q-bus backplane - you can put a PDP11 >CPU + memory + I/O cards in there. You need a serial port on the Q-bus, >which you then link to the VT100 logic board that's also in there. I also believe a uVAX-II will also work in a VT103.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 18 23:56:06 1998 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction Message-ID: Perhaps Bob wants to ensure that the guy has to pay the 5% to Ebay. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 9:22 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Another Altiar up for Auction > > Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We only > know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a > bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So, > what's with the first momentum-setting bid? > > -- Doug From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Aug 19 00:14:09 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Web Page Generator Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980818221417.2d0740dc@ricochet.net> Some folks may recall that my classic computer web pages (at ) are automatically generated by a program I wrote. Well, I've finally got the docs in some semblance of order, for them what was interested. There's a link at the bottom of the page, or you can go straight to for the related page. You can also download the whole shebang there. Sorry it took so long! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From peacock at simconv.com Wed Aug 19 00:15:32 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2X found Message-ID: <003701bdcb30$6437f720$9d7ca8cf@foggy.simconv.com> >While there, I found a slim manual to the CDC 6000 series machines. >Something about SCOPE...I suppose I ought to read it. > There were two OSes for the CDC 6000/7000 series, SCOPE and KRONOS. KRONOS was the full blown OS, lots of feature, utilities, etc. while SCOPE was the stripped down OS (I think it predated KRONOS). As I remember SCOPE didn't really offer much more than MSDOS in terms of services, it was mostly batch oriented, big jobs, CPU intensive, not much timeshare support. KRONOS was a fairly good timeshare environment for it's day, not in the TOPS-20 league but of course very fast, being a 60 bit Cray design. Jack Peacock From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 19 00:33:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818193408.3a6f5154@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > >Strange coincidence, I just picked up another today (my second, the first > >doesn't pass self test). > > Hint! Mine didn't either at first. It gave a bunch of ROM errors. I > unplugged the ROM drawer and it passed self tests. Then I took out the > ROMs and found one with one of it's pins bent under. I straightened the > pin and put everything back in place and now it passes all tests. Hmmm...thanks for the tip. I'll check that out if I can remember where I put the first one. > Mine has the Program Developement ROMs and two other ROMs with Tektronix > part numbers but no name. They show up as PD, XO and IO in the self test > failure listing. If I can find the manual (doubtful, its probably tucked away in an unmarked box somewhere in the garage) I'll look that up. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 19 00:39:16 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction Message-ID: <19980819053917.16603.qmail@hotmail.com> > >Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We only >know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a >bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So, >what's with the first momentum-setting bid? > >-- Doug Doug, To do this all in one post, first let me reply to Marcus when he says... "Ebay takes 5% of the bid regardless of whether or not the reserve was met. So if last time the bids went up to $5000 - Ebay has billed him $250 + $2". Marcus, When I need information relating to the history of microcomputers I go to the experts. Doug Yowza is an example. So, while certainly not an Ebay expert, I'm a very experienced Ebay seller and you can rely on my understanding of Ebay's terms. Ebay charges a seller from 25 cents to $2 to list each item (determined by the dollar amount of that item's minimum and/or reserve). If the item does not meet the reserve there is absolutely no further fee charged by Ebay. If the item sells, the commission charged by Ebay is as follows... 5% of the amount up to $25. $2.5% of the amount between $25 and $1000. And only 1% of the amount above $1000. The Altair seller has been charged a total of $2 by Ebay, at this point. If the Altair were now to sell for $10,000, the total of fees and commisions he would pay to Ebay is an additional $115.62. Now, Doug, you ask "what's with the first momentum setting bid"? You have (and I suppose understandably so) jumped to a wrong conclusion. If you have read all my words to the readers of this list it should be apparent that I have been very candid with you. I have no interest in "establishing a momentum". The fact is that I had tentatively made a sale on one of my Altairs. That sale was never consummated. With all of the mention of list subscribers contacting the parties involved in the auction - I think it is possible that may have contributed to my losing a sale and may influence the seller in question. For that reason, I placed a bid that is the highest I am willing to pay (Yes I will pay $2500. If anyone wishes to sell me his Altair, contact me directly). If the seller is told by those outside of his auction that his expectations are silly then I am hoping he will sell me the computer for that amount. It costs me nothing to try. But, Doug, now that I have answered your question, you have failed to answer mine. I would be very interested in hearing your answer. Bob Wood > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 19 00:51:27 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <19980819053917.16603.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > The fact is that I had tentatively made a sale on one of my Altairs. > That sale was never consummated. With all of the mention of list > subscribers contacting the parties involved in the auction - I think it > is possible that may have contributed to my losing a sale and may Actually, this is one feature of ebay that I wouldn't like if I were a seller: your competitors are free to contact your buyer and offer them a better deal. Before you had even approached Alex, I had warned him to expect a bunch of Altair solicitations. Hell, I'd be selling all my Altairs (if I had any) at $12K a pop any day. > But, Doug, now that I have answered your question, you > have failed to answer mine. I would be very interested in > hearing your answer. I have often been accused of offering opinion when not asked, but this is the first time I have ever been accused of not answering a question :-) What is your question, Bob? I'd be happy to answer it. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 19 01:04:21 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > 3) Those who would have gladly donated a machine to a good home now think > there's $10K to be made, so they keep them until they get a $10K offer > (i.e., they keep them until they die). This is what I'm worried about. I've actually upped the dose on my collecting addiction to hopefully beat the mad rush I am expecting to come with people demanding hundred dollar prices for Commodore 64's and such. The eBay phenomena, if it continues, may very well disrupt the enjoyment that this hobby brings for a good while until people start to come back to their senses (if people ever come back from their senses). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 19 02:00:21 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: New acquisition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808190700.RAA02360@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 09:51 PM 18-08-98 +0100, Pete Joules wrote: >Don't know if this is classic but I just got an entire VMS 5.2 'grey >wall'free. Allison - can I reliably use this as a reference for my 5.5 >system? I would have thought so. I don't think there were any features "retired" in going form 5.2 to 5.5. Of course, there were lots of new things added although sitting here I can't think of what - it's been a while since 5.5 was released! Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Wed Aug 19 02:00:23 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction Message-ID: <001a01bdcb3f$0c193a40$8f4c8bc0@mgb119> >Ebay charges a seller from 25 cents... [snip] I stand corrected: after rereading the ebay terms I realize my last post was in error... From rax at warbaby.com Wed Aug 19 03:21:40 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: <19980819034822.2840.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >Now, I know that many of you want to chase the moneychangers >out of this temple. And some probably even think that I >am the anti-christ who came in on a black helicopter. > So that was you, eh...? Actually, you made an excellent point with your post. I think most of us are bitching about this price thing because we see it as heralding the end of cheap or free vintage computers. But I don't think that's going to happen for awhile. Sure, the Altairs and Apple1s may go beyond the reach of all but a few fools with more money than they know what to do with, but there'll still be plenty of unheralded cheap goodies to keep us collecting for the next few years. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From rax at warbaby.com Wed Aug 19 03:31:44 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Another Altiar up for Auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sam wrote: >This is what I'm worried about. I've actually upped the dose on my >collecting addiction to hopefully beat the mad rush I am expecting to come >with people demanding hundred dollar prices for Commodore 64's and such. > I'd be happy as a pig in shit if I could unload my 75 Commodore 64's for a hundred bucks apiece. Hmmm...if you really want them, I might consider letting you have them all for an even five grand :) R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Wed Aug 19 03:08:05 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Ebay & Ethicacy ponderings Message-ID: <005201bdcb48$822b46c0$8f4c8bc0@mgb119> I know this may be somewhat off-topic (I did throw in the word Altair a few times though) but I can't help wondering now, what is preventing someone from setting an outrageous reserve and then simply accepting the highest bidder's bid. The Ebay rules state (heh - you can believe me this time - I just re-read them!) "You will not be charged a Final Value Fee if: There were no bids on your item; OR There were no bids on your Reserve Price Auctions that met the reserve price." In this case the Altair seller could accept a bid of up to $9999 and end up owing Ebay $2. Perhaps the Altair's ACTUAL (=in his head) reserve is considerably less than $10000 and the person is simply trying to avoid the Final Value Fee. But is this ethical? It should be noted that a winning BIDDER can also back out of a sale if their bid didn't meet the reserve. From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 19 03:29:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Ebay & Ethicacy ponderings In-Reply-To: <005201bdcb48$822b46c0$8f4c8bc0@mgb119> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Markus Blumrich wrote: > Perhaps the Altair's ACTUAL (=in his head) reserve is considerably less than > $10000 and the person is simply trying to avoid the Final Value Fee. > > But is this ethical? There are *many* ways to avoid paying fees on ebay. Their collection rate is reportedly low, but they make it up in volume. This particular method can backfire on the seller. Bidders generally don't like reserve auctions, so they don't bid, and the seller gets a lower price than he would have without a reserve. This game, and many other games, are part of the online auction appeal. > BTW, In my opinion there doesn't exist a single set of principals which > would allow one to judge an action as ethical or unethical. Time for me to thump the bible! Please see the ClassicCmp FAQ: http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/faq.txt No philosophy allowed here :-) ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of years before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about it. Is it real? -- Doug From cdrmool at interlog.com Wed Aug 19 05:44:33 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Harris computer/ Nighthawk In-Reply-To: <199808190353.XAA09093@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: I'm not sure about the model, but you mentioned that it was by Harris. I just recently saw a "Harris" server and stations here in Toronto. There were no doc's with it. There must have been at least 8 stations for it. I accidently got the keyboard in a pile of stuff so if the person who picked it up is looking for it and is on the list! I've got it for you. It seems to be, to my limited knowledge, a VM system. I would have picked it up because it was so friggen ugly (I buy old stuff for looks as much as for what it is-I know I'm shallow), but unless I used the stations to hold up my mattress, I'd have nowhere to put it. Hey, know theres an idea.. Larry, did you buy it? Colan From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Aug 19 06:48:22 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980818211823.1d9f035e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 18, 98 09:18:23 pm Message-ID: <199808191148.HAA12731@shell.monmouth.com> > > At 09:26 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. > > Very likely. Harris does a LOT of government work. Their satellite > division (and others) are literally right around the corner from this place. > Harris had a number of computer lines. I can't guarrantee the following info -- but I think it's accurate. The Nighthawk was a (mostly) military real-time Unix machine based off the Masscomp 500 and 5000 line and RTUv3 (they started as OEM's doing a secure version of the OS and then began using stuff of their own design). Masscomp was eaten by Concurrent Computer (formerly Perkin Elmer, formerly Interdata) which was swallowed by Harris about 4 years ago. Harris took the Concurrent name, though. Harris also came up with both a firewall application (now sold by a different company now -- at the merger Harris spun off the firewall operation and the secure Unix, I think). They now do real-time Unix and are trying to crack the Video Server business. Masscomp and Concurrent used the 68000 family (Masscomp folks used to be DEC and DG types with Real-time experience on 11/23 Mincs). Masscomp kind of filled the need for small lab real-time stuff when DEC went off to chase the Vax $$$ and let real-time slip away in the mid 80's. They added DEC's AST's to System III to get a soft real-time system for labs and instrument and industrial control. HISTORY... Concurrent did real-time on their proprietary systems (OS/32) and saw a need to get away from OS/32 and into real-time Unix so they bought Masscomp. Concurrent failed in every small machine they tried to put together before Masscomp and pretty much put the last nail in Masscomp's coffin. Concurrent failed to come up with a good software development environment on OS/32. DEC cleaned their clock on everything but hardware price/performance. They had the most hardware bang for the buck and needed the OEM's to make them a winner (where DEC moved more into a systems and SOFTWARE company). I worked for DEC and later Concurrent (at the time of the Masscomp deal.) PROCESSORS... Masscomp went from 68k to Mips R3000 in the early 90's and then merged with Harris. Harris used 68k and then went to 88k (I think) and then Power PC. Harris also made commercial supermini's (24 bit machines). Bill From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 07:55:29 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808191255.AA10239@world.std.com> < >CPU + memory + I/O cards in there. You need a serial port on the Q-bus, < >which you then link to the VT100 logic board that's also in there. < < I also believe a uVAX-II will also work in a VT103.... Save for your limited to the 1meg of ram (no CD) and the power is limited. the vt103 was designed as a small system and if you smoke the PS you may have a time finding another. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 07:55:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Parts is parts (not scanjet stuff) Message-ID: <199808191255.AA10461@world.std.com> < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342 < < When I last looked (an hour ago?) no-one had bid, the minimum bid is < $1.00 (though there's work involved getting the stuff), there's a bit < under two days to go, and here's the description: < < >Hundreds of tubes of brand-new 7400 & 74LS TTL DIPs and resistor < >networks. 8 MHz 68000's and 16K DRAMs. Boxes and boxes of brand-new 3M snip... Sounds interesting but I'm cubed out here. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 07:55:52 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: New acquisition Message-ID: <199808191255.AA10643@world.std.com> RE: VAX/OpenVMS < I would have thought so. I don't think there were any features "retired" < going form 5.2 to 5.5. Of course, there were lots of new things added < although sitting here I can't think of what - it's been a while since 5. < was released! I've been operating VMS 5.4-5.5 without docs for about five years. I'd consider a 5.2 docset a windfall! The differences from 5.2 to 5.6 are in part bug fixes (odd releases, like 5.3, 5.5) and feature additions (5.2, 5.4, 5.6). that's not absolute but it generally follows that pattern. Also within a version 5.x major changes will not happen or it becomes 6.x! Also if the system is complete there will be a features and additions page in the help file. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 07:56:27 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: altair/was: Ebay & Ethicacy ponderings Message-ID: <199808191256.AA11018@world.std.com> < ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of year < before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about < it. Is it real? The only prior products to the altair were a hand calc (several) and also some hobbiest telemetry bits. If there was another computer it was a maybe to compete in the MARK-8 realm (8008 based). In the 8008 realm there were several companies that predate MITS. There used to be a company here in MA called Control Logic I think that had their "L series" modules that were 8008 based. Personally I view collecting Altairs to wine... altair was the first lot produced by a particular vintor. It was as drinkable as hog urine but, it was their first and the vintor would become famous and fail making that first lot scarce and "collectable". Most of the early altairs had to be hacked (required) to make them work. They are now shelf addornments and should be held up as an example of how not to do it. I'm being serious. Anyone that wants a S100 front pannel box to actually run would do far better with an IMSAI, Ithica Intersystems, or several others. Most however learn the first thing with these is that once you have it running the first code you want is a terminal keyboard monitor as replacement switches are a few bucks each and the originals are getting poor. Also toggling in 25 or 50 bytes every power up or crash gets tiring. I say this as someone that lived with the MITS ACR (sill have the analog board for one) where you toggle in a 33byte loader, then load MITS basic crash half way through (10 minutes), toggle in the loader again, load the tape... I think that lasted three months until I made my first PROM card using 8223 proms. A few weeks later the ACR tape interface would be removed in favor of a digital tape of my own design. The load, crash, reload cycles were a great detriment to the goal of doing some serious programming. I still feel the flakey hardware and really awful audio cassette kept me from doing anything useful for the first 6-7 months of ownership. Hacks applied to mine to make it work with some reliablity before it was replaced with a NS* system in early 78. * Moved AC power from front pannel switch as I felt it was dangerous having an unprotected traces with 110v on them. * 8V DC line was 7.8v with cpu and two 4k dram cards. Added 12 turns to the winding. Upgraded filter cap to larger value, replaced undersized rectifers. Mits offered a new transformer at users cost. * +-16V DC line marginal, rectifers fried, upgraded. * Backplane was in four slot segments and was a single sided affair. I had 8 slots and had to add bussbar to the power and ground lines as the power distribution from one end of the bus tot he otehr was poor. * modifed memory cards (88MCD) to improve timing and signal quality. * Replaced backplane with a improved two sided one from third party. * Replaced 2mhz crystal and oneshots used for 8080 clock with 8224 and 18mhz crystal. * modified memory cards to replace 4060s with uPD410 static devices of the same pinout. After all this the system would load MITS basic and run for a week solid without crashing. By the middle of '76 I'd be up to 4 memory cards of both the 88mcd design and a vastly better 88S4k design. a then whopping 16k of ram. That would be eclipsed by the addition of a Seals 8k static card that was 1/3 the cost of the first 16k and still works! If I'd waited a year and bought an IMSAI I'd have saved all that time, about $3000 and had a machine that would not have required replacement. The upside is by that time I'd learned how it should NOT be done. Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Aug 19 08:06:55 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808191255.AA10239@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 19, 98 08:55:29 am Message-ID: <199808191306.JAA12830@shell.monmouth.com> > > > < >CPU + memory + I/O cards in there. You need a serial port on the Q-bus, > < >which you then link to the VT100 logic board that's also in there. > < > < I also believe a uVAX-II will also work in a VT103.... > > Save for your limited to the 1meg of ram (no CD) and the power is > limited. the vt103 was designed as a small system and if you smoke > the PS you may have a time finding another. > > Allison > > A guy in Sweden put 4mb and a uVaxII and some MFM (RQDX?) in one with no problem and some serious wire wrap work. I don't think it's impossible -- especially with a reworked power supply. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 19 09:16:15 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Charging batteries Message-ID: <199808191416.HAA18406@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I have an Outbound Notebook which takes a camcorder-style 12v 2 Ah battery. The Outbound's power adapter, which is used to both run the unit and charge the battery is 22v, 0.82A. Unfortunately, I don't have the adapter or anything similiar. What I would like to know is how forgiving the Outbound and its battery would be if I used an innapropriate adapter. I have an adapter that puts out 14v and 1.2 amps. Am I correct in assuming the 14v would suffice for charging the batter (not running the unit)? What about the 1.2Ah, though? Will the extra amperage do any harm? Thanks. Tom Owad P.S. Anybody have a 22v, 0.82A adapter for sale? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 19 10:44:46 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Harris computer/ Nighthawk In-Reply-To: References: <199808190353.XAA09093@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: >I'm not sure about the model, but you mentioned that it was by Harris. >I just recently saw a "Harris" server and stations here in Toronto. There >were no doc's with it. There must have been at least 8 stations for it. >I accidently got the keyboard in a pile of stuff so if the person who >picked it up is looking for it and is on the list! I've got it for you. >It seems to be, to my limited knowledge, a VM system. I would have picked >it up because it was so friggen ugly (I buy old stuff for looks as much as ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hey, now. Some of us have a soft spot in their hearts for Harris Mini's. :^) The first _Real_ computer I ever used was a Harris. Of course I'd been using a Vic-20 for about 5 years prior to that. Zane >for what it is-I know I'm shallow), but unless I used the stations to hold >up my mattress, I'd have nowhere to put it. Hey, know theres an idea.. > Larry, did you buy it? > >Colan | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Wed Aug 19 09:44:25 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980818221417.2d0740dc@ricochet.net> Message-ID: With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help: Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. -Wayne Cox From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 19 10:49:12 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Cleaning RL02 Packs Message-ID: Question of the day, how do you go about cleaning an RL02 pack. I'm not talking about the "Customer" cleaning that the user manual talks about. I'm talking about the "Dec Certified Tech" six month cleaning or however it was they put it (read it last night). The six month cleaning sounds like it includes cleaning inside the pack, which is what I"m interested in. I know someone, Tony I think, mentioned taking apart and cleaning RK05 packs. Well that's what I'm wanting to do with this RL02. It's called the pack is visably dirty inside, with a thin film of grim. Any suggestions, recommendations, crys of "are you out of your freaking mind"? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Wed Aug 19 09:55:47 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? Message-ID: <01J0S800UMGI8YN635@AC.GRIN.EDU> > With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help: > > Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as > PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd > love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. You might want to look into JED - it has EDT keymaps available, as well as Wordstar and Emacs. It runs nicely on Unixes, and Win95 ports seem to be happening as well. It's available at: ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/davis/jed/ You'll also need the Slang library, available at ftp://space.mit.edu/pub/davis/slang/ Slrn and Most, also available at that site, are my favorite newsreader and pager, respectively. I haven't used Jed as much. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu CBEL: Xavier OH, Season 15 champions CMEL: Xavier From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Aug 19 09:52:30 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? Message-ID: <980819105230.20800121@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help: >Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as >PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd >love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. Yes, there have been several ports of EDT. By far the most complete - and the most expensive - is Boston Business Computing's. Everything that is in real EDT is in BBC's EDT. See http://www.bbc.com/ for details. There are several less worthy emulations, that do a pretty good job of emulating EDT's CHANGE (ala "full-screen") mode but which don't even attempt to emulate non-keypad or line modes. In particular, an emulation package for EMACS falls into this category, as well as the shareware JED. ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 19 11:30:36 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <7891@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808191437.JAA28356@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 09:18 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:26 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >>Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. > > Very likely. Harris does a LOT of government work. Their satellite >division (and others) are literally right around the corner from this place. > > How >>much are they asking for it? > > "Make an offer". They bought it (probably dirt cheap) by mistake and >know NOTHING about it. > > If it's not that much, it may be worth it >>just to get it and see just what the heck it actually was for... > > Maybe. It's kinda big though. About a 30" cube. Ugly too, it looks >kind of like a car that's been crushed. > > Joe >>-- You sure it's not a working model of a BORG scout ship? Nobody mentioned *who's* govenrment Harris contracted for! (Sorry for raising the noise floor, guys. Couldn't resist). :-)) Jeff From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Wed Aug 19 10:20:51 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. References: <3.0.1.16.19980818181825.4fd70e04@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980818212007.1d9f242a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35DAED53.8A2ACC7A@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Joe wrote: > > At 09:38 PM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Reason I ask is that when I used to work for a company called Peripheral > >Land long ago, we used to make a SCSI Floppy/Hard drive combo box for > >Tek. I personally built a ton of 'em. > > > >Tony > > > > That's interesting. Do you remember anything about them or what they had > inside? I could get a picture and post it so you could see if that looks > like it. > > Joe They were dirt simple. An St-506 hard drive, a floppy drive, and SCSI controller (made my DTC I beleive). If it werent for this contract with Tek, that company woulda gone outta business long before it actually did. Tony From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 10:20:32 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808191520.AA06973@world.std.com> A guy in Sweden put 4mb and a uVaxII and some MFM (RQDX?) in one < with no problem and some serious wire wrap work. < < I don't think it's impossible -- especially with a reworked < power supply. Sorta agrees with what I said. I looked at my Vt100 and it would be possible to shoehorn a set of VS2000 boards power supply and a disk into the VT100 case. It's easier to sit it on top. ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 10:26:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? Message-ID: <199808191526.AA12811@world.std.com> < Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such a < PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I' < love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. No. I do use VEDIT for CP/M configured to use the EDT keypad and function very similar. It allows me the full screen modes via keypad and also command line (change) using TECO macros. Thre are versions (predeccessor) to EDT that run on PDP-11 under RT-11, RSTS and RSX11. Allison From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Aug 19 10:13:10 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Parts is parts (not scanjet stuff) In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com's message of Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:55:41 -0400 References: <199808191255.AA10461@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808191513.IAA16293@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342 Well, that's Allison quoting me. I'd been nosing through eBay to see what else there was to fuss over and noticed someone put up a big lot of parts for a low price and u-pick-up in Arlington, MA. Thought it might be of interest to someone out that way as repair parts. Where folks find time to go through eBay listings is what I wonder. -Frank McConnell From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Wed Aug 19 10:42:10 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Parts is parts (not scanjet stuff) References: <199808191255.AA10461@world.std.com> <199808191513.IAA16293@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35DAF252.3E4AC96F@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Frank McConnell wrote: > > allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > > < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342 > > Well, that's Allison quoting me. I'd been nosing through eBay to see > what else there was to fuss over and noticed someone put up a big lot > of parts for a low price and u-pick-up in Arlington, MA. Thought it > might be of interest to someone out that way as repair parts. > > Where folks find time to go through eBay listings is what I wonder. > > -Frank McConnell I'm thinking of taking the guy up on it. Problem is, I dont want _all_ of it. If I do go pick up stuff, is anyone interested in some of it? Tony From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Aug 19 10:45:52 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: <199808191526.AA12811@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 19, 98 11:26:11 am Message-ID: <199808191545.LAA06554@shell.monmouth.com> > > > < Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such a > < PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I' > < love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. > > No. I do use VEDIT for CP/M configured to use the EDT keypad and function > very similar. It allows me the full screen modes via keypad and also > command line (change) using TECO macros. > > Thre are versions (predeccessor) to EDT that run on PDP-11 under RT-11, > RSTS and RSX11. > > Allison > > I've got some hardcopy of an EDT clone for the Rainbow called Small-EDT which isn't too bad, however -- the sources have been hacked by me in an aborted attempt to squeeze them on to a DEC VT180. I ended up with a 68k binary and a 52k (or so) TPA. If anyone wants to data enter the beast... They're too lousy (condition) for scanning and OCR. This EDT actually handled line mode and full screen keypad mode. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 19 10:47:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980819104710.00fc77f0@pc> At 12:17 AM 8/19/98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > >I am also now the proud owner of an SGI 4D/380 (and most of another >4D/380). Physically it is in very good shape, but apparently it is quite >sick. 8 processors, buckets of SIMMs, neeto graphics, but the best thing >is the "CPU Power Meter" on the front of the cabinet... >Does anyone have IRIX on 1/4" tape? With SGI, you're dealing with a (barely? :-) still existent company. You're supposed to buy IRIX, not copy it. On the other hand, is there any evidence that an IRIX license was transferred to you as part of the deal on this machine? Buying a second SGI box that comes with a license will be cheaper than buying it from SGI. :-) Ask the experts on news at comp.sys.sgi.*. - John From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Aug 20 10:46:58 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Charging batteries Message-ID: <199808191556.LAA17721@gate.usaor.net> You could use a camcorder or camcorder charger to charge the battery. It would be a lot safer. You could overload the supply if it's not the right volt/amperage, worse yet, you could blow something in the computer. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Tom Owad > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Charging batteries > Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 10:16 AM > > I have an Outbound Notebook which takes a camcorder-style 12v 2 Ah > battery. The Outbound's power adapter, which is used to both run the > unit and charge the battery is 22v, 0.82A. Unfortunately, I don't have > the adapter or anything similiar. > What I would like to know is how forgiving the Outbound and its > battery would be if I used an innapropriate adapter. I have an adapter > that puts out 14v and 1.2 amps. Am I correct in assuming the 14v would > suffice for charging the batter (not running the unit)? What about the > 1.2Ah, though? Will the extra amperage do any harm? > > Thanks. > > Tom Owad > > P.S. Anybody have a 22v, 0.82A adapter for sale? > > -- > Sysop of Caesarville Online > Client software at: > From spc at armigeron.com Wed Aug 19 09:13:48 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980819104710.00fc77f0@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 19, 98 10:47:10 am Message-ID: <199808191413.KAA28887@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great John Foust once stated: > > At 12:17 AM 8/19/98 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: > > > >I am also now the proud owner of an SGI 4D/380 (and most of another > >4D/380). Physically it is in very good shape, but apparently it is quite > >sick. 8 processors, buckets of SIMMs, neeto graphics, but the best thing > >is the "CPU Power Meter" on the front of the cabinet... > >Does anyone have IRIX on 1/4" tape? > > With SGI, you're dealing with a (barely? :-) still existent company. > You're supposed to buy IRIX, not copy it. On the other hand, is > there any evidence that an IRIX license was transferred to you > as part of the deal on this machine? Buying a second SGI box that > comes with a license will be cheaper than buying it from SGI. :-) > Ask the experts on news at comp.sys.sgi.*. Another problem is that nearly each machine used a unique MIPS processor which were more source compatible than binary compatible. Well, that isn't exactly true---the opcodes were the same, but each MIPS processor has a slightly different pipeline and code compiled for one MIPS chip (say, the R3000) might not work correctly (or work at all) for another (say, the R10000). Another thing---early SGI boxes were more stable than later ones. The one I used for four years (SGI Personal Iris 4D/35) had the mother board replaced once, the graphics card replaced once and the monitor was going (everything had a slight green tinge to it). I enjoyed working on the box, but the hardware flakiness got to me after a while. I was also upset when I had to upgrade the OS from 3.3.2 (last version to run NeWS (much better than X)) to 4.0.1 (first version based on X). Also, avoid IRIX 5.x at all costs (it was their worst version, and quite possibly the worst version of UNIX this side of SCO). I'm not fond of the machines now and 6.x is okay at best. -spc (The 4D/35 I used is now seven years old. New (with the TV video I/O card we had) it cost $35,000. After four years it was maybe worth $1,000. Talk about depreciation!) From william at ans.net Wed Aug 19 11:20:34 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980819104710.00fc77f0@pc> Message-ID: > With SGI, you're dealing with a (barely? :-) still existent company. Yes, I know. I hope they do not go away. And the damn weenies want to go with Merced... > You're supposed to buy IRIX, not copy it. On the other hand, is > there any evidence that an IRIX license was transferred to you > as part of the deal on this machine? Buying a second SGI box that > comes with a license will be cheaper than buying it from SGI. :-) Well, I am hoping that eventually SGI becomes nice and lets individual hackers like me play with IRIX, like DEC or Sun has with their OSes. > Ask the experts on news at comp.sys.sgi.*. I tried to get a very old version of IRIX for my Motorola based IRIS 2500T, and was blasted by the "cops" on the group. These people need to get real - who the even runs IRIX v2.0 anymore?! William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Wed Aug 19 11:26:24 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: <199808191413.KAA28887@armigeron.com> Message-ID: > Another problem is that nearly each machine used a unique MIPS processor > which were more source compatible than binary compatible. Well, that isn't > exactly true---the opcodes were the same, but each MIPS processor has a > slightly different pipeline and code compiled for one MIPS chip (say, the > R3000) might not work correctly (or work at all) for another (say, the > R10000). This really is no different from the early SPARC boxes - Sun-4 really did not like Sun-4c, etc.. > Another thing---early SGI boxes were more stable than later ones. The one > I used for four years (SGI Personal Iris 4D/35) had the mother board > replaced once, the graphics card replaced once and the monitor was going > (everything had a slight green tinge to it). Luckily I think I have enough spares. I even yanked the backplane out of the donor machine. The two machines had different graphics boards - more research I need to do (first I need to get the box out of the van!). > I enjoyed working on the box, but the hardware flakiness got to me after > a while. I was also upset when I had to upgrade the OS from 3.3.2 (last > version to run NeWS (much better than X)) to 4.0.1 (first version based on > X). Also, avoid IRIX 5.x at all costs (it was their worst version, and > quite possibly the worst version of UNIX this side of SCO). I think the IRIX support for the Power Series (or probably most of the 4D/ machines) died around v5.0.x. William Donzelli william@ans.net From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Wed Aug 19 11:40:22 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration Message-ID: <199808191640.SAA12611@IAEhv.nl> On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 17:00:56 -0700 you said to classiccmp@u.washington.edu cl>YES YES YES!!!!!! *Jumps about and throws mouse at floor like cl>football* Oops... cl>At any rate, I am now successfully logged into the MicroVax II as cl>SYSTEM! cl>Thanks to all who helped me out! Now if I just had documentation cl>other than the built-in HELP database. cl>Basically, now what I'd like to do is get some assistance (in cl>private email if it's more appropriate) to make a full backup of cl>the system so that I can feel safer playing around with it. For VMS documentation try the links at http://vaxarchive.ml.org/swdoc/vms/vms_doc.shtml This is a list of a great deal of VMS documentation available online. Basically you first create a Standalone Backup tape, which is bootable tape needed to backup a system disk and restore a backup to a blank hard disk, and then you boot from this tape and do the backup. Boot VMS from the hard disk and enter these commands to create the standalone backup: $ SET DEFAULT SYS$UPDATE $ @STABACKIT The program asks for the name of the device the kit is to be built on, usually this is MUA0: To back up the system, boot from the tape with >>> B/E0000000 MUA0: When the prompt appears, enter the command: $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: MUA0:FULLBACK.BCK/REWIND/LABEL=AUG19 This assumes you are backing up the first hard disk on the first disk controller to the first tape drive on the first tape drive controller. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 19 13:00:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <9807199035.AA903574848@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Tony Duell qouted Jeff as having written: >> Maybe you would have been better off using an HP IEEE disk drive: > > Problem is, I don't think Philip has the CS/80 protocol (mainly because > I'm looking for it, and he's not offered it to me ;-)). And without that > impossible-to-find document, it's almost impossible to use HP drives. True. The reason was, I have _no_ HP disk drives, but I have _three_ 8050s (one working, one in bits, one badly mangled), not to mention a 4040 and a 2031 (which would also work), and at least six PETS. So the Commodore stuff was the obvious choice. And Tony is also right: I don't have the CS/80 protocol. Besides, most of the problems were with the Tektronix lacking facilities for opening files, loading and saving named files, etc. Not to mention its asserting of IFC just when I didn't want it to... > The Commodore protocol is pretty well documented in a number of books > ('Programming the PET' has enough info, I think). by Raeto West? Exactly what I used. >> In this neck of the woods anyway, Commodore IEEE related 'stuff' >> is pretty scarce . . . > > It's not that rare in the UK. I've got an 8050, 8250LP and a number of > printers here. Agreed. Lots of PETs were used in commercial/scientific applications - probably because of the GPIB - and there are even books like West or Osborne & Donahue in the library here at work. Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 19 13:05:50 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <9807199035.AA903575208@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >> I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general >> purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. How close is it >> to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for the 4041 a few >> months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know anything Not at all similar, I'm afraid. The 4051 was a 6800 machine, and the 4052 used four 2901 chips and a homebrew sequencer to give you a 25MHz 6800 with some extra instructions. More about this - and the disgusting piece of pessimisation they included - at my talk at VCF... Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 19 13:12:48 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Charging batteries Message-ID: <9807199035.AA903575571@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I have an Outbound Notebook which takes a camcorder-style 12v 2 Ah > battery. The Outbound's power adapter, which is used to both run the > unit and charge the battery is 22v, 0.82A. Unfortunately, I don't > have the adapter or anything similiar. > What I would like to know is how forgiving the Outbound and its > battery would be if I used an innapropriate adapter. I have an adapter > that puts out 14v and 1.2 amps. Am I correct in assuming the 14v would > suffice for charging the batter (not running the unit)? What about the > 1.2Ah, though? Will the extra amperage do any harm? I don't know the outbound, but I can offer the following thoughts: To charge a 12V battery with a 22V power supply suggests some internal regulation, in which case 14V probably wouldn't work. On the other hand, it probably would do no harm. You don't say whether the 22V is dc or ac - if it's ac, dc might work, but if it's supposed to be dc, ac could damage your machine. Most power adapters are constant voltage, and quote a maximum current. So the requirement is for 22V, capable of at least 0.82A. A power supply that can put out 1.2A (not Ah) would be ideal. > P.S. Anybody have a 22v, 0.82A adapter for sale? I could build you one, but shipping it to the US might be expensive :-) Philip. From william at ans.net Wed Aug 19 12:30:54 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:04 2005 Subject: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market (fwd) Message-ID: > Hi William, > Do you have a URL for the RetroComputing Society? I'm in South > Central PA. Maybe I could make it down some time. Try . William Donzelli william@ans.net From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Wed Aug 19 12:50:20 1998 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > Captain Napalm wrote: > > Another problem is that nearly each machine used a unique MIPS processor > > which were more source compatible than binary compatible. Well, that isn't > > exactly true---the opcodes were the same, but each MIPS processor has a > > slightly different pipeline and code compiled for one MIPS chip (say, the > > R3000) might not work correctly (or work at all) for another (say, the > > R10000). Code compiled for the MIPS-I instruction set (for the R2000/R3000) should run on later MIPS-II through MIPS-IV machines. Running old MIPS-I code on an R10000 is extremely inefficient, but it works. SGI's change in object file formats (from COFF to ELF) and use of several different ABIs (o32, n32, n64) in their recent OSes seems to cause more compatibility problems than the differences between the MIPS chips themselves. > I think the IRIX support for the Power Series (or probably most of the 4D/ > machines) died around v5.0.x. IRIX 5.3 will run on a Power Series (or any other 4D) machine, as long as the graphics subsystem is supported. GTX, VGX, and Reality Engine should all work. 5.3 uses more memory than the earlier versions, but I run it relatively comfortably on a 4D/35 with 32 MB of RAM. IRIX 6.x will not run on the 32-bit R2000/R3000 processors. I don't know if the Merced/NT announcement a few months ago is responsible, but there seems to be a glut of SGI gear on the used equipment market right now. Hobbyist licenses for old versions of IRIX would be great, if SGI could be convinced to do such a thing. If you haven't found it already, there is some useful information about the 4D series machines (including connector pinouts, specifications, and power requirements) at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 12:48:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Gemini Galaxy 2 Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1346 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/9f5681ec/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Wed Aug 19 12:59:20 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: <199808191413.KAA28887@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > Another thing---early SGI boxes were more stable than later ones. The one > I used for four years (SGI Personal Iris 4D/35) had the mother board > replaced once, the graphics card replaced once and the monitor was going > (everything had a slight green tinge to it). The 4D/35 is widely regarded as flakey at best. Much more troublesome than both the 4D/25 that came before and the Indigo R3000 that replaced it. I have an R4600 Indy and an R4400 Indigo. I wish the Indy were faster and that IRIX suffered less from "not-invented-here", but there it is. ok r. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 13:03:39 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? Message-ID: <199808191803.AA12591@world.std.com> < I've got some hardcopy of an EDT clone for the Rainbow called < Small-EDT which isn't too bad, however -- the sources have been < hacked by me in an aborted attempt to squeeze them on to a DEC VT180. < < I ended up with a 68k binary and a 52k (or so) TPA. Sedt? it was PC huge. To get that functionality it didn't need to be 60+k of code. Even VAX EDT is smaller! Most of the EDT clones FYI are about 12-15k of 8080/z80 asm code and about 22k if written in a C compiler. Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Wed Aug 19 13:20:53 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: <199808191803.AA12591@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 19, 98 02:03:39 pm Message-ID: <199808191820.OAA08042@shell.monmouth.com> > > < I've got some hardcopy of an EDT clone for the Rainbow called > < Small-EDT which isn't too bad, however -- the sources have been > < hacked by me in an aborted attempt to squeeze them on to a DEC VT180. > < > < I ended up with a 68k binary and a 52k (or so) TPA. > > Sedt? it was PC huge. To get that functionality it didn't need to be > 60+k of code. Even VAX EDT is smaller! Most of the EDT clones FYI are > about 12-15k of 8080/z80 asm code and about 22k if written in a C > compiler. > > Allison > > Nope, smedt -- based on red with modifications. It came from a guy in Idaho at a DEC shop.. No mouse support, text only, no colors, nographics. I've used SEDT starting in 1986 -- but didn't really love it. It was kind of an Emacs or LSE environment. TOO BIG for CP/M. If you've got an EDT clone for CP/M with line and keypad mode I'd love to see it. (and I'd love to see an xterm setup for Unix that would let me use the numlock key as . Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 19 12:53:33 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? Message-ID: <199808191824.OAA07722@charity.harvard.net> I want to apologize to you for accidentally sending you an anti-spam message. When I first set up my auto-reply spam filter it was acting quite funky. Again, I apologize. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter [mailto:pechter@shell.monmouth.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 7:48 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? > > > > > > At 09:26 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Almost sounds like something from the government - even > the name. > > > > Very likely. Harris does a LOT of government work. Their satellite > > division (and others) are literally right around the corner > from this place. > > > > Harris had a number of computer lines. I can't guarrantee the > following > info -- but I think it's accurate. The Nighthawk was a > (mostly) military > real-time Unix machine based off the Masscomp 500 and 5000 > line and RTUv3 > (they started as OEM's doing a secure version of the OS and > then began using > stuff of their own design). > > Masscomp was eaten by Concurrent Computer (formerly Perkin > Elmer, formerly > Interdata) which was swallowed by Harris about 4 years ago. Harris > took the Concurrent name, though. > > Harris also came up with both a firewall application (now > sold by a different > company now -- at the merger Harris spun off the firewall > operation and > the secure Unix, I think). They now do real-time Unix and are trying > to crack the Video Server business. > > Masscomp and Concurrent used the 68000 family (Masscomp folks > used to be > DEC and DG types with Real-time experience on 11/23 Mincs). > > Masscomp kind of filled the need for small lab real-time > stuff when DEC > went off to chase the Vax $$$ and let real-time slip away in the mid > 80's. They added DEC's AST's to System III to get a soft real-time > system for labs and instrument and industrial control. > > HISTORY... > > Concurrent did real-time on their proprietary systems (OS/32) and > saw a need to get away from OS/32 and into real-time Unix so > they bought > Masscomp. Concurrent failed in every small machine they tried to > put together before Masscomp and pretty much put the last > nail in Masscomp's > coffin. Concurrent failed to come up with a good software > development > environment on OS/32. DEC cleaned their clock on everything but > hardware price/performance. They had the most hardware bang > for the buck and needed the OEM's to make them a winner (where > DEC moved more into a systems and SOFTWARE company). I worked for > DEC and later Concurrent (at the time of the Masscomp deal.) > > PROCESSORS... > > Masscomp went from 68k to Mips R3000 in the early 90's and then > merged with Harris. > > Harris used 68k and then went to 88k (I think) and then Power PC. > > Harris also made commercial supermini's (24 bit machines). > > > Bill > From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Aug 19 13:22:52 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Speaking of New Aquisition.... Message-ID: <199808191822.SAA17784@cyber2.servtech.com> I got a VMS ver. 5.4 "Grey Wall" myself with the 'Great Haul' a while back. I took an inventory of all the manuals based on the first several pages of the Introduction to the Master Index (found in General User vol. 1) I discovered at least four binders are missing. Not too bad considering there seems to be a total of at least 29 grey binders in the whole of the three manual subkits. They probably were left on somebody's desk at the southern college from where the previous owner obtained my VAX 11/750 back in '90 or '91. Would anybody have just odd parts and pieces of the VMS 5.4 manual collection? If so, would any of you be willing to part with several to help complete mine? Here's the manuals/binders I'm missing: General User Subkit Volume 4, "VMS DCL Dictionary" (may consist of vol. 4A and 4B in one _or_ two binders as hinted by a footnote.) System Management Subkit Volume 3, consisting of : "VMS Access Control List Editor Manual", "VMS Audit Analysis Utility Manual", "VMS Authorize Utility Manual", "Guide to VMS System Security" all in one binder. Programming Subkit Volume 7A, consisting of: "VMS I/O User's Reference Manual: Part I" and "VMS I/O User's Reference Manual: Part II" both in one binder. Programming Subkit Volume 7B, consisting of: "VMS Delta/XDelta Utility Manual" and "VMS System Dump Analyzer Utility Manual" both in one binder. Later, I may ask for help in completing my RSX-11M ver. 4.1 'Orange Wall" when I get around to doing a precise inventory. Seems to be several of those binders missing. (At least my RT-11 ver. 4.1 manual set seems quite complete :-) ) Thanks loads for the help! Regards, Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian R. Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian 31 Houston Avenue Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home Jamestown, New York email: cfandt@servtech.com 14701-2627 USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 19 14:09:43 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries Message-ID: <199808191909.MAA09100@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >To charge a 12V battery with a 22V power supply suggests some internal >regulation, in which case 14V probably wouldn't work. On the other >hand, it probably would do no harm. What if I hooked the charger directly to the batter? Would the extra 2v be a problem? >You don't say whether the 22V is dc or ac - if it's ac, dc might work, >but if it's supposed to be dc, ac could damage your machine. Both the intended adapter and the one I have are DC. >> P.S. Anybody have a 22v, 0.82A adapter for sale? > >I could build you one, but shipping it to the US might be expensive :-) I'll probably end up with an explanation that's way over my head, but - How do you build one? Thanks. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 19 16:18:05 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <7953@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808191925.OAA29976@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Yow!!! That means maybe it will run FLEX! [insert Homer Simpson impersonation] Woo Hoo!. Dang! I can just imagine running FLEX at 25Mc! Its performance over a 1Mc 6800 must have been blistering! Yikes!! I think I may have seen some boards from a system like that one in a junk heap last week! It used four 2901's eh? Hm, I'm gonna haveto revisit that particular junque pile . . . Jeff At 06:05 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> I just picked up a Tektronix 4041 computer. I think it's a general >>> purpose HP-IB instrument controller similar to a HP 9915. How close is it >>> to your 4052? I HAD a Tektronix 4046 disk drive unit for the 4041 a few >>> months ago but I traded it off (A_ S___!) Does anyone know anything > >Not at all similar, I'm afraid. > >The 4051 was a 6800 machine, and the 4052 used four 2901 chips and a >homebrew sequencer to give you a 25MHz 6800 with some extra ^^^^^^^^^^ >instructions. More about this - and the disgusting piece of >pessimisation they included - at my talk at VCF... > >Philip. > From spc at armigeron.com Wed Aug 19 12:36:55 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: SGI 4D/380 In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Aug 19, 98 01:59:20 pm Message-ID: <199808191736.NAA29391@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great R. Stricklin once stated: > > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Captain Napalm wrote: > > > Another thing---early SGI boxes were more stable than later ones. The one > > I used for four years (SGI Personal Iris 4D/35) had the mother board > > replaced once, the graphics card replaced once and the monitor was going > > (everything had a slight green tinge to it). > > The 4D/35 is widely regarded as flakey at best. Much more troublesome than > both the 4D/25 that came before and the Indigo R3000 that replaced it. How odd. It was originally a 4D/25 that was upgraded (motherboard replacement) to the 4D/35 (and not because it needed fixing---my bosses wanted the 4D/35 but it wasn't available at the time it was purchased). > I have an R4600 Indy and an R4400 Indigo. I wish the Indy were faster and > that IRIX suffered less from "not-invented-here", but there it is. IRIX (at least 3.3.2 and 4.0.1) seem to be pretty much stock SYSV with BSD extentions to me. I did like the administrative tools and the login screen was great! (it showed a picture for each user and you could replace the default picture with one of your own) -spc (Find it odd that the Challenger series is headless ... ) From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 19 14:52:06 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Parts is parts (not scanjet stuff) Message-ID: <199808191954.PAA20121@charity.harvard.net> I'm heading down to this guy's place sunday to take a look around. He offered to let me make multiple trips so I'll prolly go down, make a list, nab what I want, and let y'all know what's there for the taking and maybe I can go get some of it for you and ship it out (within reason of course). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 8:56 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Parts is parts (not scanjet stuff) > > > < http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342 > < > < When I last looked (an hour ago?) no-one had bid, the minimum bid is > < $1.00 (though there's work involved getting the stuff), > there's a bit > < under two days to go, and here's the description: > < > < >Hundreds of tubes of brand-new 7400 & 74LS TTL DIPs and resistor > < >networks. 8 MHz 68000's and 16K DRAMs. Boxes and boxes of > brand-new 3M > > snip... > > Sounds interesting but I'm cubed out here. > > Allison > From WishB at asms1X.dsc.k12.ar.us Wed Aug 19 17:03:30 1998 From: WishB at asms1X.dsc.k12.ar.us (Brett Wish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? Message-ID: > i started a new job last week; one of my duties is going thru a > warehouse load (no joke) of older mac systems. everything from se30's to > older powerPC machines. question is this: since they all are being > scrapped and i cannot save them, anyone want me to pull some roms for > them? or any other useful components? let me know WHAT they are, and > WHERE they are, as I am not a mac tech. more than happy to see what i > can do for you people out there who want these. Would you be able to save any complete systems? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 13:23:10 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980818163153.48ff85fe@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 18, 98 07:35:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1100 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/33c69d2f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 14:41:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Cleaning RL02 Packs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 19, 98 07:49:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/4cf55bd4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 13:47:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries In-Reply-To: <199808191416.HAA18406@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 19, 98 07:16:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/d55f205a/attachment.ksh From WishB at asms1X.dsc.k12.ar.us Wed Aug 19 17:30:40 1998 From: WishB at asms1X.dsc.k12.ar.us (Brett Wish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: notebook parts sources Message-ID: > P.S. - If anyone is interested, I'm willing to provide an edited copy of > my windows cardfile of vendors. have about 1000 pages, w/ contacts for > alot of diff manufacturers. email privately if interested. :) Would you still happen to have this cardfile available? From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 19 12:44:32 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: notebook parts sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808192120.RAA04732@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:30:40 -0600 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Brett Wish" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RE: notebook parts sources > > > P.S. - If anyone is interested, I'm willing to provide an edited copy of > > my windows cardfile of vendors. have about 1000 pages, w/ contacts for > > alot of diff manufacturers. email privately if interested. :) Does this cardfile includes 486 cpu based notebooks too including Everex Stepnote 486 series, Compuadd, Leo Designote/Designote? I missed the original emailer who send this message of offering this info. Who is this? Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From pjoules at enterprise.net Wed Aug 19 17:06:08 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: New acquisition In-Reply-To: <199808190700.RAA02360@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <000501bdcbbd$9170fb00$06c548c2@snoopy> Hi Huw Thank you for your reply. I have had several similar ones so clearly I should have left the question open rather than addressing it to Allison ;-) There is obviously a great deal of VMS expertise on the list. Regards Pete From aknight at mindspring.com Wed Aug 19 17:04:26 1998 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980819180426.007b8d40@mindspring.com> Hello out there in classic computer land, I'm new to the list and wanted to introduce myself and my Web pages to the rest of ya'll. My name is Alex Knight and my Web page, the Calculator History and Technology Archive, is located at: http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm My interest is primarily in early-model electronic calculators, but there are some crossover machines that seem to fit the bill as classic computers, and in my searching for old calculators I sometimes turn up some interesting old computer stuff. One of the more interesting machines that I have written an article about for my Web site is called a Mathatron, which was advertised as a desktop calculator/computer and sold as early as 1964. The Mathatron is a very large and heavy (24" x 24", 80 lbs) machine, but it will fit on top of a sturdy desk. I believe it to be the first programmable calculator, and some other people I've talked to consider it to be the first desktop computer (because of it's programmability, available peripherals, etc.). So ya'll take a look and let me know if you have any additional info. on this unit that I may be able to add to my article. Another "crossover" machine that I have a little info (mainly pictures) of is the HP 9830, called a calculator but in fact a computer with BASIC. Also on my Web site is a list of things that I'm looking for and things I have for trading, as I find classic computer items that I put on the trading block I'll send a message to the list to let ya'll know. Have fun, Alex Knight Hillsborough, NC From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Wed Aug 19 17:13:27 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 Message-ID: <7930378@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 369 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/891808c5/attachment.bin From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Wed Aug 19 17:25:11 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: New acquisition In-Reply-To: <000501bdcbbd$9170fb00$06c548c2@snoopy> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Peter Joules wrote: > Hi Huw > Dammit - sorry for the private post to the list. *@%#?.g Outlook uses the "Reply to:" header by default and I am used to pine which replies to the sender by default. Regards Pete From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Wed Aug 19 17:33:16 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: 400k floppy drive Message-ID: <7930792@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/3f616098/attachment.bin From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 19 17:41:17 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980819180426.007b8d40@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: > One of the more interesting machines that I have written > an article about for my Web site is called a Mathatron, which > was advertised as a desktop calculator/computer and sold as > early as 1964. Hi, Alex. I really think this is the coolest find yet. I have a desktop programmable computer from 1959, but mine is analog. I haven't heard of any desktop programmable solid-state digital machine that predates your Mathatron. > Another "crossover" machine that I have a little info > (mainly pictures) of is the HP 9830, called a calculator > but in fact a computer with BASIC. The 9830 doesn't get discussed much, but it's one of my favorites. There's a lot of noise on this list about the Altair, a "PC" from 1975 that was just a big box with lights and toggles. In 1972, the HP 9830 was an elegant light-weight desktop computer with full alphanumeric keyboard, built-in secondary storage, built-in display, built-in BASIC, and it just plain works. There was nothing else remotely like it at the time, and it was even reasonably priced (around $5000, I think). -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 17:12:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries In-Reply-To: <199808191909.MAA09100@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 19, 98 12:09:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3690 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/879ea6cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 17:14:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <199808191925.OAA29976@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 19, 98 02:18:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980819/56ccf018/attachment.ksh From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 19 19:18:58 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808191255.AA10239@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808200018.KAA07241@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 08:55 AM 19-08-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: > >< >CPU + memory + I/O cards in there. You need a serial port on the Q-bus, >< >which you then link to the VT100 logic board that's also in there. >< >< I also believe a uVAX-II will also work in a VT103.... > >Save for your limited to the 1meg of ram (no CD) and the power is >limited. the vt103 was designed as a small system and if you smoke >the PS you may have a time finding another. I didn't say it was perfect, just that it would work :-) I'm about to expose a lack of understanding of Q-bus, but do you need a CD slot for uVAX-II memory given that it has the PMI (private memory interconnect)? As you can tell, I'm not up there with Q-bus specifics and all the uVAX Q-bus systems I've used came with a suitable back plane (at vast cost at the time from Digital :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Aug 19 19:21:38 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980819171640.5a5fe4b4@ricochet.net> At 06:12 PM 8/19/98 GMT, you wrote: >Most power adapters are constant voltage, and quote a maximum current. >So the requirement is for 22V, capable of at least 0.82A. A power >supply that can put out 1.2A (not Ah) would be ideal. Here's a question... I get a lot of laptops minus their PS's. The ones that are 12vdc or 9vdc with a standard plug are no problem, but the ones like the outbound (I'm lucky enough to have a PS) or the GRiD's (17.5vdc?) or whatnot aren't even covered by the select-a-warts from Radio Shack. So, does anyone make a box where you can set it for whatever voltage you want from, say, 1vdc to 50vdc or something, with some way of hooking up different plugs? Does anyone know where to get such a beast *cheaply*? Thanks... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 19 19:22:13 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980818221417.2d0740dc@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808200022.KAA07167@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 10:44 AM 19-08-98 -0400, Wayne Cox wrote: >With all the DEC enthusiasts here, maybe someone can help: > >Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such as >PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I'd >love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. Well from (rusty) memory Boston Business Computing (Computers?) had a version of EDT that ran on PCs. In addition, Digital had a version of eve that ran under Ultrix and it had EDT emulation. I used the latter approach for a while but then just got assimilated by the vi cube :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 19 19:24:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980819171640.5a5fe4b4@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 19, 98 05:21:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/0807984c/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 19 19:41:42 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: <199808200022.KAA07167@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> from "Huw Davies" at Aug 20, 98 10:22:13 am Message-ID: <199808200041.SAA12562@calico.litterbox.com> I don't suppose they ever released the EVE clone for Ultrix source so us linux-heads could use it? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 18 20:31:56 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Anyone Want mac roms? In-Reply-To: <199808181937.PAA24481@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199808181835.OAA01924@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980818183156.008d8cb0@agora.rdrop.com> At 03:37 PM 8/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Add another one -- I'd love MacIIfx SIMMS. Oooooo..... me too! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 19 21:04:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Cleaning RL02 Packs In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 19, 98 07:49:12 am Message-ID: >There is actually a DEC machine for cleaning RL packs. It's similar to >the more common one for RK05 packs, and it slowly rotates the disk while >moving a cleaning pad over the surface. Problem is getting the cleaning >pads, and the fact that it often does more harm than good. Strange, sounds like the cleaning cartridges for DLT4000/7000 drives, use them to often and you've no longer got a tape head. >If you've got a dirty pack, I wonder if you can dismantle it (unclip the >base cover, etc) and clean the disk like you clean an RK05 disk (91% IPA, >9% distilled water, don't let it dry on the disk surface.). I've never >done this, and I don't have an RL pack to hand to try it. Well I tried, you can get the bottom unclipped. However that only gains you access to the bottom of the platter, and I didn't want to unscrew the platter and unbalance it. >> It's called the pack is visably dirty inside, with a thin film of grim. > >Is this on the platter (ouch!), the outside of the inner cartridge, or where? > >-tony Turns out that the film of grim was only around the opening on the pack, and on the inner bottom. The inner top, and the platter itself looked to be clean. Unfortunatly I got a parity error about a third of the way in when I tried to make a disk Image on my MicroVAX. Anyway, that's it for the RL02's from this weekends haul. Now to take this drive out, and bring in a RL01 drive so I can read those packs in. I just pray the Whitesmith C distribution pack is good! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 19 16:06:29 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Harris computer/ Nighthawk In-Reply-To: References: <199808190353.XAA09093@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808200109.VAA19816@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Aug 98 at 6:44, cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > I'm not sure about the model, but you mentioned that it was by Harris. > I just recently saw a "Harris" server and stations here in Toronto. There > were no doc's with it. There must have been at least 8 stations for it. > I accidently got the keyboard in a pile of stuff so if the person who > picked it up is looking for it and is on the list! I've got it for you. > It seems to be, to my limited knowledge, a VM system. I would have picked > it up because it was so friggen ugly (I buy old stuff for looks as much as > for what it is-I know I'm shallow), but unless I used the stations to hold > up my mattress, I'd have nowhere to put it. Hey, know theres an idea.. > Larry, did you buy it? > > Colan > Nope, I've already got the TRS 80 8" HDDs and some 5150s holding up my mattress. What I need is some kip-bags for clothes since the rapidly rising wall of puter stuff has buried my dresser (never really liked the thing anyway) I did pick up a mint Apple IIc . No power supply tho. Anyone on the list got one they want to part with ? There is a comp.sys.harris news-group. Nothing in it when I looked. Don't know if there's a FAQ. If they were all gone we've got some SERIOUS collecting competition out there. Maybe the same guy that scooped the 6 Rainbows. I for one am all for the Ebay phenomina. If it keeps up I can sell my collection and retire to Florida with the proceeds, where, according to Joe, the real bargoons are. In pallet-sized lots. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 19 16:06:28 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980818192643.3a6f385c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 18, 98 07:26:43 pm Message-ID: <199808200109.VAA19839@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Aug 98 at 1:54, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > At 02:44 AM 8/18/98 +0100, Tony wrote: > > >> > > > > >years), it's reliable. And it's no harder to work on, given the manual > > >than anything else. > > > > Yes, well that's the problem. Most people here in the US won't even read > > their car's owner's manual much less go BUY a service manual and read it! > > Yep. And then there are those home-mechanic manuals (Haynes, etc) that > are often worse-than-useless. The diagrams in later ones come out of the > official manuals, but they miss out some of them, and they forget to > explain some of the symbols (!). And they often miss out bits that they think > you won't be able to do at home (automatic transmision, electronic engine > management, some of the other electrical bits, some of the more complex > hydraulic bits, major bodywork repairs, etc). Sorry, but I'll decide what > I can fix > > The manufacturers shop manual (for anything, car, computer, electronic > equipment) is always worth buying IMHO... > > > > > Joe > > (who has a service manual for every car he owns and some even for cars he > > doesn't own.) > > Yep... I have the official manuals for the cars my father has owned since > I started seriously working on them, manuals for vehicles I'd like to own > one day (Land Rovers, older Citroens, etc), and manuals for vehicles that > have unusual designs (Manumatic transmission, Wilson Preselector > transmission, etc). Nowhere near as many manuals as my computer > documentation, but still a fairly large shelf. > -tony > Hmm, I must have smaller horizons. Bicycle manuals and micros rather than car manuals and minis. :^)) But I too almost always did my own car repair. I don't like using things I can't understand and/or repair. Part of why I got into electronics. I've pulled heads, replaced drive boxes, and most things that didn't require expensive equipment. I once fabricated a wooden brake pad to replace a shattered one as an emergency measure when travelling in a remote mountainous region. Worked okay. Shop manuals were always my guide. I threw out a bunch of Chiltons once in frustration at how sketchy they are. I only wish I was as good at el. tech. as I am at older cars or Constuction. The field is so vast tho that it's difficult to be encyclopaedic. The shape of things to come, I guess. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Aug 19 20:20:26 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: MITS, wasEbay & Ethicacy ponderings Message-ID: <199808200120.SAA24012@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 03:29 AM 8/19/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of years >before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about >it. Is it real? > >-- Doug > Have you found any more? I looked for MITS ads in Popular Electronics from about 1971 to 1974. They had many calculators, sometimes the last 2 digits in the model number = calsulator digits. I think the nmost digits I saw was 14, though. Also clocks, etc. In late 1974 their ads were for a 416 which was a 4 channel x 16 led "logic scope" Built in one of those black bakelite boxes. It sounds like one of those oscilloscope "multi-channel" adapters that were popular when CMOS multiplexers came out, like the 4051, but this one used led's instead of am external scope. -Dave From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Aug 19 18:41:16 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: My Web Site Message-ID: <000901bdcbdb$fe643ba0$7353fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Well, this is my first attempt at a Web site. Actually, there's two, at these URLs: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/index.html and http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html I found out today looking at the site "live" that certain FrontPage elements did not translate (such as the hit counter). I'm opening up these URLs for criticism. Let me know what y'all think. I also need good links recommendations. I have a few, but I need more. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Aug 19 20:45:31 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Charging batteries In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980819171640.5a5fe4b4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808200145.BAA27772@cyber2.servtech.com> At 01:24 20-08-98 +0100, you wrote: >> So, does anyone make a box where you can set it for whatever voltage you >> want from, say, 1vdc to 50vdc or something, with some way of hooking up > >What you want is called a 'bench power supply' and it's a common piece of >electronic test equipment. The one I have does 0-30V (continuously >variable) with a maximum output current of 10A. And you can set a current >limit, so that if your device takes more than, say, 0.5A, the PSU will >shut down, protecting the device. The output is on a couple of >terminals/binding posts, so you can link up just about anything to it. > >The problem is the price. The one I have, as a kit, is about \pounds >250.00 (!). There are cheaper ones (I've seen one for \pounds 60.00, I --snip-- >Aha... That's the problem. They are _not_ cheap. You may find one of the >Heathkit ones at a radio rally - I bought a non-working 0-50V, 1A >Heathkit PSU at a rally for \pounds 5.00. Fixing it involved replacing >the power-on lamp, which is a dropping resistor for the regulator as well. Exactly Tony! Often at hamfests, or radio rallies in UK, one can find very capable power supplies for quite reasonable prices. A common expression for the type of variable PS we're talking about is " lab-type power supply" as they are usually used in electronics labs or repair shops as a rather flexible pieces of bench equipment. I've got several extra rack mount power supplies at the old house I must sell off as I don't have the same amount of space at the new house. Maybe I should offer them to the list here in case anyone should need one for their workbench to do just what has been discussed in this thread or whatever. Gotta pull them out of the pile first though. Two types: one type is 0-36 volts DC at (IIRC) 5 or 6 amps and the other units are dual 0-18 VDC at 1.5 amps. Dual here meaning two separate identical PS's in one unit. Great for those who need both + and - voltages in their application or simply two of the same polarity or just on PS alone. Tony's description (in previous msg) of how to design a simple linear power supply and select the appropriate parts to replace the missing unit is right on target. Even though the description gives all that one needs to construct a PS, if one is still shy about actually constructing it (lack of such experience) perhaps a friend who is an experienced amateur radio operator or electronics repair person could either build it or be at your elbow to guide you through the construction. I've lent guidance often at work in training a beginning technician or at home with friends who wanted to learn how to swing a soldering iron. My wife and a few years later, my son are next in line for this! Incidentally, components for building such a PS can be found fairly readily (and sometimes really cheaply) at a hamfest especially the larger hamfests around larger towns. DigiKey is a rather good mailorder supplier of parts too, for example. I buy ribbon cables from them for the oddball types I need (that are not typical PC-types). Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From poesie at geocities.com Wed Aug 19 21:09:26 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... Message-ID: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Ok, after a few more days of scoping things out, here's the deal: I started working for GE Capital, at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Minnesota. They are disposing of alot of the mac systems, and I figured that I would be able to pull the ROM's out of the old ones that I knew were never going to be used again, ever. (Just so you know, I would probably lose my job due to that but it's a shame to let such things go to waste. If someone reading this is from my new employers, I haven't done anything!!!!!) Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the metal content. bummer.) We have lots of old IBM mainframe systems, Quads, CRTs, etc etc. also, a good lot of those macs were all used by the Graphic Design dept; so they are chock full of cool stuff (tons of ram, souped up video cards, yadda yadda.) lots of hard drives, all have token ring cards. (I reiterate: LOTS of token ring cards. I'm swimming in them.) I currently have a large pallet of mac 14/15 inch monitors; a pallet of IIsi, IIci, IIcx's; Quadra 700s, Quadra 950 servers(awesome machines), PowerPC 7100/66, 7100/80's. also other random ones. also, *several* pallets of Duo Dock 230's and 280's. tons of NEC versa V/50's and 4000c's. quite a few 21 inch mac color monitors (definitely not for sale, unless you made an attractive offer to my boss!) alot of this stuff is earmarked for employee sales, but alot of it is also headed for disposal. If anyone is truly interested, I will print out and give serious inquiries to my boss. emailing the head of a large national corporation won't do much, but I can give your requests to the right person. in Minneapolis, Minnesota. -Eric (PS. - I only offered to grab roms or small chip components because they wouldn't be used where the machines were headed, and they wouldn't be missed. I cannot personally recover systems or anything of that nature. I am sure however that my boss would be very reasonable if you made an offer!) PPS- we also have several sony trinitron touch screens. anyone know of a use for these? From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Aug 19 21:07:35 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit References: <199808181331.JAA09573@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <35DB84E6.175306ED@idirect.com> >Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with > > < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane, > > < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the > > < necessary technical information. > > I've built a few and have data as well. > > Allison > Someone -- post the wire wrap info... Jerome Fine replies: Was the info from Megan sufficient? Otherwise, do you need more help. Also, as you have noticed, I am an RT-11 person. Is there sufficient interest on your part in RT-11 to correspond directly? Does anyone else other than Megan and Allison do RT-11 to any extent? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Aug 19 21:12:22 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff Message-ID: <199808200212.TAA17235@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 05:41 PM 8/19/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: > >> One of the more interesting machines that I have written >> an article about for my Web site is called a Mathatron, which >> was advertised as a desktop calculator/computer and sold as >> early as 1964. > >Hi, Alex. I really think this is the coolest find yet. I have a desktop >programmable computer from 1959, but mine is analog. I haven't heard of >any desktop programmable solid-state digital machine that predates your >Mathatron. > >> Another "crossover" machine that I have a little info >> (mainly pictures) of is the HP 9830, called a calculator >> but in fact a computer with BASIC. > I found a book I would recommend if anyone finds a copy, although I am still getting used to it. It is "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples" by Bell and Newell. It uses strange notation (for me) and even the table of contents is "virtual". Anyway, it includes descriptions of 2 desktop calculators, both about 1968: an Olivetti 101 (USD$3500) and a HP 9100A. The HP uses core memory, its program ROM uses 16 layer PC board technology. The HP article is a reprint from the HP Journal. Does anyone have either of these? There are many other computers described, both common and uncommon. Some are valved, such as the UK Pegasus, which was only 3 "bays" large. -Dave From william at ans.net Wed Aug 19 21:25:56 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: > We have lots of old IBM mainframe systems, Like what? > (PS. - I only offered to grab roms or small chip components because > they wouldn't be used where the machines were headed, and they wouldn't > be missed. You better be careful! When the scrap man finds out that all of the chips that have gold (like the EPROMS and processors) are gone, he is going to scream! The rest of the chips, boards, and drives are things that the scrap man _does_not_ want! William Donzelli william@ans.net From ecloud at goodnet.com Wed Aug 19 21:43:32 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> from "Poesie" at Aug 19, 98 09:09:26 pm Message-ID: <199808200243.TAA27135@goodnet.com> > PPS- we also have several sony trinitron touch screens. anyone know of > a use for these? I might be interested but shipping would probably be prohibitive and I'm nowhere near MN. Of course they have a use - provided there is a way to interface them to a PC. They can replace your mouse; less precisely but plenty good enough for pushing buttons on a GUI. I think so far every manufacturer of touchscreens uses their own interfacing technique; sometimes there is a box to hook up to a serial port and emulate a mouse, sometimes the box is integrated into the monitor, or there might be a custom ISA card. Make sure whoever you sell them to has any such external devices. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * artificial intelligence * ham radio * sci fi * eschew obfuscation * From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 19 22:00:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808200300.AA27089@world.std.com> < I'm about to expose a lack of understanding of Q-bus, but do you need a Dig up a PDP-11 Qbus book, most had a good description of the bus and bus protocals. < slot for uVAX-II memory given that it has the PMI (private memory CDbus is used for PMI too. < interconnect)? As you can tell, I'm not up there with Q-bus specifics an < all the uVAX Q-bus systems I've used came with a suitable back plane (a < vast cost at the time from Digital :-) Makes it a lot easier. Alliosn From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 19 21:58:35 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower price per unit. Say I get 100 items at $300 that means the cost per item would be $3. I do not need it all I also just want one of each type of unit for my collection that I do not already have. Let me know as soon as possible before it's all gone. Thanks Eric for the tip and I will get back to my Friday with some type of offer based me being able maybe see some of these units. At 09:09 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >Ok, after a few more days of scoping things out, here's the deal: I >started working for GE Capital, at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Minnesota. >They are disposing of alot of the mac systems, and I figured that I >would be able to pull the ROM's out of the old ones that I knew were >never going to be used again, ever. (Just so you know, I would probably >lose my job due to that but it's a shame to let such things go to waste. >If someone reading this is from my new employers, I haven't done >anything!!!!!) > > Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to >dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy >quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 >bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the >metal content. bummer.) > > We have lots of old IBM mainframe systems, Quads, CRTs, etc etc. also, >a good lot of those macs were all used by the Graphic Design dept; so >they are chock full of cool stuff (tons of ram, souped up video cards, >yadda yadda.) lots of hard drives, all have token ring cards. (I >reiterate: LOTS of token ring cards. I'm swimming in them.) I currently >have a large pallet of mac 14/15 inch monitors; a pallet of IIsi, IIci, >IIcx's; Quadra 700s, Quadra 950 servers(awesome machines), PowerPC >7100/66, 7100/80's. also other random ones. also, *several* pallets of >Duo Dock 230's and 280's. tons of NEC versa V/50's and 4000c's. quite a >few 21 inch mac color monitors (definitely not for sale, unless you made >an attractive offer to my boss!) > > alot of this stuff is earmarked for employee sales, but alot of it is >also headed for disposal. If anyone is truly interested, I will print >out and give serious inquiries to my boss. emailing the head of a large >national corporation won't do much, but I can give your requests to the >right person. > > in Minneapolis, Minnesota. > >-Eric > > (PS. - I only offered to grab roms or small chip components because >they wouldn't be used where the machines were headed, and they wouldn't >be missed. I cannot personally recover systems or anything of that >nature. I am sure however that my boss would be very reasonable if you >made an offer!) > > PPS- we also have several sony trinitron touch screens. anyone know of >a use for these? > > From fauradon at pclink.com Wed Aug 19 22:27:19 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <01c701bdcbea$7245ba40$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Actually they do both, unfortunately sometimes simultaneaously:) >At 12:40 AM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >>engine, transmission, hydraulics (it's a Citroen with hydraulic > >Omigawd... You poor soul you... Here, let me send you an Altair to make >up for your suffering! 8^) (The french should make love, not cars.) > Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 19 18:36:13 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Another XTA choices for oddball systems. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> References: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <199808200312.XAA06534@commercial.cgocable.net> IBM did make several drives in 2.5" that works with XTA or ATA interface. Listed here for 2.5" WDA-240/280 40mb/80mb WDA-S260 - 60mb and WDA-2120 120mb. The XTA and ATA is selected by one pin on the 44pin interface and it's there on the ibm website. http://www.storage.ibm.com/techsup/hddtech/table.htm Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 19 23:24:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: My Web Site In-Reply-To: <000901bdcbdb$fe643ba0$7353fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Well, this is my first attempt at a Web site. Actually, there's two, at > these URLs: > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/index.html > > and > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html The Tandy M100 was not the first notebook computer. The Epson HX-20 was. > I also need good links recommendations. I have a few, but I need more. http://www.siconic.com/vcf Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 19 23:26:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: My Web Site In-Reply-To: <000901bdcbdb$fe643ba0$7353fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Well, this is my first attempt at a Web site. Actually, there's two, at > these URLs: > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/index.html > > and > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html PS. These links did not work for some reason. I believe your index.html is missing. I think your pdp11 directory is also MIA. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 19 23:32:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:05 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Poesie wrote: > alot of this stuff is earmarked for employee sales, but alot of it is > also headed for disposal. If anyone is truly interested, I will print > out and give serious inquiries to my boss. emailing the head of a large > national corporation won't do much, but I can give your requests to the > right person. Suggestion: to even make it remotely worth this manager's while, you're probably going to have to offer to buy pallets of stuff. It probably won't be worth his while to make nickel & dime sales to 20 different people. I would suggest you offering to be the point man in this. Get a list from all the classiccmp people who want stuff. Take it to the manager and say you'll assemble this all on one pallet. Then hand him cash or a check for $xx. Then turn around and re-sell it to the interested parties. Anything else and the manager will most likely tell you its not worth his time, and oh by the way you're fired. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 20 00:29:31 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MITS, wasEbay & Ethicacy ponderings In-Reply-To: <199808200120.SAA24012@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of years > >before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about > >it. Is it real? > > > Have you found any more? I looked for MITS ads in Popular Electronics > from about 1971 to 1974. They had many calculators, sometimes the last 2 digits > in the model number = calsulator digits. I think the nmost digits I saw was > 14, though. Also clocks, etc. I found a few web references evenly split between a computer and a calculator, but nothing with any detail. I suspect it was a calc. In fact, I think that the MITS association with Popular Electronics started with a "build your own calculator" article. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 20 00:38:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff In-Reply-To: <199808200212.TAA17235@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, dave dameron wrote: > I found a book I would recommend if anyone finds a copy, although I am still > getting used to it. It is "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples" by > Bell and Newell. It uses strange notation (for me) and even the table of > contents is "virtual". That wouldn't be Gordon Bell, would it? The book sounds familiar, but it's not on my shelf. > Anyway, it includes descriptions of 2 desktop calculators, both about 1968: > an Olivetti 101 (USD$3500) and a HP 9100A. The HP uses core memory, its > program ROM uses 16 layer PC board technology. The HP article is a reprint > from the HP Journal. Does anyone have either of these? Somebody with a better sense of calc history should chime in here, but I think Monroe, Olivetti, HP, and Wang all had programmables in the 60s. I have an HP9100A manual and the first HP _Keyboard_ that describes it. I think I recall at least four people on the list having a 9100. It was not the first programmable, but it was the first HP, and it is pretty cool with its built-in CRT and expansion bus. -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 18 09:41:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards Message-ID: <35D992AA.8FA8DDD2@bbtel.com> Still in need of a few microchannel (for PS/2) ethernet adapters with the BNC 10base2 setup. Doesn't matter if they have AUI or RJ45 with it as well, as long as it has the BNC/10base2 setup. I don't need 3270 cards so check any cards you think you have with the BNC connector to see what they are. Looking for donations, trades or reasonable priced cards for a parochial school network project that's overdue. I've gotten a few good reponses and have a couple on the way but I'm going to be about 4 or so short yet. I've also gotten one or two ridiculously high quotes for used cards. This is a project on a shoestring budget so no $30 or $40 cards please. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY USA From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Aug 20 01:55:44 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: My Web Site In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail "Re: My Web Site" (Aug 19, 21:26) References: Message-ID: <9808200755.ZM25915@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 19, 21:26, Sam Ismail wrote: > Subject: Re: My Web Site > On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > > Well, this is my first attempt at a Web site. Actually, there's two, at > > these URLs: > > > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/index.html > > > > and > > > > http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html > > PS. These links did not work for some reason. I believe your index.html > is missing. I think your pdp11 directory is also MIA. The directory's there, but the pages are called "index.htm" not "index.html"... looks like they were created with that nasty FrontPage stuff. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Aug 20 02:01:18 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards In-Reply-To: <35D992AA.8FA8DDD2@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 18, 98 09:41:47 am Message-ID: <199808200701.BAA15238@calico.litterbox.com> -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Aug 20 02:02:48 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards In-Reply-To: <35D992AA.8FA8DDD2@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 18, 98 09:41:47 am Message-ID: <199808200702.BAA15248@calico.litterbox.com> We have a local equivalent of Wierd Stuff Warehouse here. Next time I'm there I'll see if they have any MCA ethernet boards. > > Still in need of a few microchannel (for PS/2) ethernet adapters with > the BNC 10base2 setup. Doesn't matter if they have AUI or RJ45 with it > as well, as long as it has the BNC/10base2 setup. I don't need 3270 > cards so check any cards you think you have with the BNC connector to > see what they are. > > Looking for donations, trades or reasonable priced cards for a parochial > school network project that's overdue. I've gotten a few good reponses > and have a couple on the way but I'm going to be about 4 or so short > yet. I've also gotten one or two ridiculously high quotes for used > cards. This is a project on a shoestring budget so no $30 or $40 cards > please. > > Russ Blakeman > Harned, KY USA > > -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Thu Aug 20 02:03:46 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808200300.AA27089@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808200703.RAA08744@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 11:00 PM 19-08-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: >< I'm about to expose a lack of understanding of Q-bus, but do you need a > >Dig up a PDP-11 Qbus book, most had a good description of the bus and >bus protocals. Any suggestions as I'll have to go beg/borrow/steal/buy one. All the books I have either predate Q-Bus or talk about "real" VAX systems (like Massbus, Unibus etc). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 20 02:07:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards In-Reply-To: <35D992AA.8FA8DDD2@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Still in need of a few microchannel (for PS/2) ethernet adapters with > the BNC 10base2 setup. Doesn't matter if they have AUI or RJ45 with it > as well, as long as it has the BNC/10base2 setup. I don't need 3270 > cards so check any cards you think you have with the BNC connector to > see what they are. Have you considered using parallel-port 10base2 adapters? They seem to be going for about $5/pop these days, and they don't care what kind of bus you've got. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 20 02:16:40 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: <7930378@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: Finally! Someone else who has a Laser 3000! On 19 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > I've had one of these for awhile. I assume it's from the Laser 128 family, but > does anyone know what (if anything) is special about it? (Why the higher > number) It's from the same company as the Laser 128, but it isn't as compatible with the Apple and it has some special features like new graphics modes, a sound chip, and extended BASIC. I don't know too much about it myself, but what I do know is on my web page. > If you've got any manuals or other documentation, please let me know. Ditto on that appeal. I need manuals of any sort, but especially the tech ref. > Also, I had another one that I cannibalized for parts, and still have the > (working?) power supply if anyone wants it. Thank you! Do you have a floppy drive for yours? Or are you stuck using cassette like me? I hope you cannibalized one L3K to fix the other, and not to fix something more mundane. If you can supply me with any information that's not on my web page, I'd much appreciate it. > -- MB Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 20 02:20:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: name this keypad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I buy the weirdest stuff sometimes. It's a hex keypad that obviously belongs to a single-board computer, but not for a CPU I'm familiar with. CPU-specific labels are AC0, AC1, AC2, AC3, PC, NI, FLAG, and STK0. What does this keypad belong to? (And does anybody need one?) -- Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 20 00:52:35 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> References: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <199808200955.FAA06177@smtp.interlog.com> On 19 Aug 98 at 21:58, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of > the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these > items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for > each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me > the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I > will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower > price per unit. Say I get 100 items at $300 that means the cost per item > would be $3. I do not need it all I also just want one of each type of unit > for my collection that I do not already have. Let me know as soon as > possible before it's all gone. Thanks Eric for the tip and I will get back > to my Friday with some type of offer based me being able maybe see some of > these units. I was about to suggest you be the point man. I thought you had cleaned out the mid-west already tho. :^)) I would definitely be interested in some of this stuff but it's hard to make any kind of an offer without having a clearer picture of what's available. If it's not possible to catalog it first ,maybe we could do it on some sort of investment share basis. For example say I was into it for $50-$100 main interest a Versa and whatever else I could get of interest to me. Time is likely of the essence on this so it would have to be organized quickly. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From fauradon at pclink.com Thu Aug 20 06:22:37 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... Message-ID: <001401bdcc2c$d6f8d160$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi John, I would love to join you in that effort. I am also interested in acquiring on of each unit. Maybe we can poll our resources and make a few people happy in the process. Anyway, Eric if you can find out the actual cost per palette that would be a great indicator of the fund needed. Thank you for flagging this one. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 10:13 PM Subject: Re: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... >I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of >the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these >items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for >each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me >the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I >will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower >price per unit. Say I get 100 items at $300 that means the cost per item >would be $3. I do not need it all I also just want one of each type of unit >for my collection that I do not already have. Let me know as soon as >possible before it's all gone. Thanks Eric for the tip and I will get back >to my Friday with some type of offer based me being able maybe see some of >these units. >At 09:09 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Ok, after a few more days of scoping things out, here's the deal: I >>started working for GE Capital, at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Minnesota. >>They are disposing of alot of the mac systems, and I figured that I >>would be able to pull the ROM's out of the old ones that I knew were >>never going to be used again, ever. (Just so you know, I would probably >>lose my job due to that but it's a shame to let such things go to waste. >>If someone reading this is from my new employers, I haven't done >>anything!!!!!) >> >> Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to >>dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy >>quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 >>bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the >>metal content. bummer.) >> >> We have lots of old IBM mainframe systems, Quads, CRTs, etc etc. also, >>a good lot of those macs were all used by the Graphic Design dept; so >>they are chock full of cool stuff (tons of ram, souped up video cards, >>yadda yadda.) lots of hard drives, all have token ring cards. (I >>reiterate: LOTS of token ring cards. I'm swimming in them.) I currently >>have a large pallet of mac 14/15 inch monitors; a pallet of IIsi, IIci, >>IIcx's; Quadra 700s, Quadra 950 servers(awesome machines), PowerPC >>7100/66, 7100/80's. also other random ones. also, *several* pallets of >>Duo Dock 230's and 280's. tons of NEC versa V/50's and 4000c's. quite a >>few 21 inch mac color monitors (definitely not for sale, unless you made >>an attractive offer to my boss!) >> >> alot of this stuff is earmarked for employee sales, but alot of it is >>also headed for disposal. If anyone is truly interested, I will print >>out and give serious inquiries to my boss. emailing the head of a large >>national corporation won't do much, but I can give your requests to the >>right person. >> >> in Minneapolis, Minnesota. >> >>-Eric >> >> (PS. - I only offered to grab roms or small chip components because >>they wouldn't be used where the machines were headed, and they wouldn't >>be missed. I cannot personally recover systems or anything of that >>nature. I am sure however that my boss would be very reasonable if you >>made an offer!) >> >> PPS- we also have several sony trinitron touch screens. anyone know of >>a use for these? >> >> > From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Thu Aug 20 06:25:28 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Aug 19, 98 09:58:35 pm Message-ID: <199808201125.HAA24663@shell.monmouth.com> > > I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of > the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these > items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for > each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me > the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I > will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower > price per unit. Say I get 100 items at $300 that means the cost per item > would be $3. This makes great sense... I'd love to pick up a couple of quadras or maybe a power mac to go with my rescued IIfx. Bill From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 20 06:50:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808201150.AA09302@world.std.com> < >Dig up a PDP-11 Qbus book, most had a good description of the bus and < >bus protocals. < < Any suggestions as I'll have to go beg/borrow/steal/buy one. All the boo < I have either predate Q-Bus or talk about "real" VAX systems (like Massb < Unibus etc). Look around they are fairly common. DEC Published them every year from late '70s through the 80s. Also check with your local DEC down under as they may have a copy in the office. On the other hand the ones you have are scarce! Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 20 06:51:11 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: name this keypad Message-ID: <199808201151.AA09742@world.std.com> < I buy the weirdest stuff sometimes. It's a hex keypad that obviously < belongs to a single-board computer, but not for a CPU I'm familiar with < CPU-specific labels are AC0, AC1, AC2, AC3, PC, NI, FLAG, and STK0. Wha < does this keypad belong to? (And does anybody need one?) My guess would be a DG NOVA/Microflame series. It's the only one I know of with four accumulators. Allison From jruschme at exit109.com Thu Aug 20 07:41:43 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Aug 19, 98 09:58:35 pm" Message-ID: <199808201241.IAA18889@crobin.home.org> > I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of > the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these > items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for > each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me > the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I > will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower > price per unit. John, I'd like to get in on this two. Since my fastest Mac is already a IIfx, my interest would be limited to a Quadra or PowerMac. Please keep me in the loop as you lear more details... Thanks... <<>> From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Aug 20 07:46:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards References: Message-ID: <35DC1A8F.9A3F43DE@bbtel.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Still in need of a few microchannel (for PS/2) ethernet adapters with > > the BNC 10base2 setup. Doesn't matter if they have AUI or RJ45 with it > > as well, as long as it has the BNC/10base2 setup. I don't need 3270 > > cards so check any cards you think you have with the BNC connector to > > see what they are. > > Have you considered using parallel-port 10base2 adapters? They seem to be > going for about $5/pop these days, and they don't care what kind of bus > you've got. Didn't even know they existed! I've seen AUI to 10baseT/10base2 and other "adapters" but never seen a parallel to BNC. That would work too since the printer(s) will go on the server and this leaves all the workstation's parallel ports open, not to mention (as you say) I needn't worry what machine they go on. Any idea who might have some, especially at that price? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Aug 20 07:48:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: MCA ethernet cards References: <199808200702.BAA15248@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <35DC1B22.5DBF147E@bbtel.com> Jim wrote: > We have a local equivalent of Wierd Stuff Warehouse here. Next time I'm there > I'll see if they have any MCA ethernet boards. > --------------------------------------------------------------- Great, very much appreciated. Now if Doug can get me info on the parallel buggers (I've never heard of) then this whole thing will work out great. I really need the ones with the 10base2 BNC connectors. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 08:30:01 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 Message-ID: <7941337@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Doug Spence wrote: Do you have a floppy drive for yours? Or are you stuck using cassette like me? ----- Neither, you lucky dog! I have these cartridge adapter thingies that supposedly allow one or two Disk ][ drives to be used with it, but I don't think I ever managed to get it to read a disk (this is likely due to my ignorance, though none of this stuff was known-good when I got it). I may have a spare disk adapter -- you interested? There's also another cartridge-like adapter for a printer, and one more with another version of BASIC. I can check in my parts bin for spares if you want. ----- I hope you cannibalized one L3K to fix the other, and not to fix something more mundane. --- end of quote --- Yes, it donated some of its vital organs to save the life of the other one. ;) -- MB From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Aug 20 09:33:46 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: HP9100A Message-ID: <199808201433.HAA15675@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 12:38 AM 8/20/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I found a book I would recommend if anyone finds a copy, although I am still >> getting used to it. It is "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples" by >> Bell and Newell. It uses strange notation (for me) and even the table of >> contents is "virtual". > >That wouldn't be Gordon Bell, would it? The book sounds familiar, but >it's not on my shelf. > Yes, that's it. My copy was published in 1971, so the HP9100A is one of the later computers in it. Yes it is neat with the custom CRT and all the boards stuffed into its case. I guess it sold for about $6000. -Dave From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Aug 20 06:07:43 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <199808201125.HAA24663@shell.monmouth.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980819215835.006ab2cc@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Aug 19, 98 09:58:35 pm Message-ID: <199808201443.KAA09080@commercial.cgocable.net> I'm interested in getting either V/50 or 3 notebooks of 4000C just in case for repairs if the price is right. Thanks for letting us know! Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 20 10:03:26 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980820100326.00c0b100@pc> At 09:09 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: > > Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to >dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy >quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 >bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the >metal content. bummer.) You have to wonder if it's more important for some people to simply "get rid of" something, than to find it put to good use. If these machines are functional, the companies involved could value the PR from donating them to good causes more than the few hundred dollars of scrap value. An enterprising person could estimate the potential return on buying the palettes and reselling the parts. If these systems are functional, I have no doubt you could set yourself up in business, buying the machines, stripping them, learning about reviving them, reconfiguring them, and then reselling them. It would be a good summer job for a school kid, or even an adult. :-) SCSI hard drives hold their value a bit longer than other types. RAM that still functions can be reused. Even dead RAM chips have value - search the net, you'll find people who buy SIMMs at discount prices, then desolder the individual chips and reassemble working SIMMs. John R. Keys Jr. - when are you opening a shop where we can buy all the stuff you've hoarded? - John From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 20 11:52:35 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <9807209036.AA903657288@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Jeff wrote: > Yow!!! That means maybe it will run FLEX! [insert Homer Simpson > impersonation] Could someone please enlighten me... What, pray, is FLEX? > Woo Hoo!. Dang! I can just imagine running FLEX at 25Mc! Its performance > over a 1Mc 6800 must have been blistering! Warning. Clock speeds may not be comparable. 6800 and friends (including 6502) often do more per cycle than 2901s. That said, the 4052 is a 16 bit system, despite its 8-bit instruction set. The data path is 16 bit throughout, it fetches two byte instructions in a single memory cycle, etc. And Tek do claim some quite impressive performance boosts upgrading from 4051 to 4052 (average gain they claimed was ten times, I think) > Yikes!! I think I may have seen some boards from a system like that one > in a junk heap last week! It used four 2901's eh? Hm, I'm gonna haveto > revisit that particular junque pile . . . Bear in mind Tony Duell's comments - 16 bit systems based around 4 2901s used to be common, but may now be worth grabbing anyway. I must do some more research into the relationship between 4052 and 6800 instruction sets. P. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 20 11:14:17 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > It's from the same company as the Laser 128, but it isn't as compatible > with the Apple and it has some special features like new graphics modes, a > sound chip, and extended BASIC. I thought the Laser 3000 was a PC clone? What hints do you take from it that lead you to believe it is still an Apple based clone? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From aknight at mindspring.com Thu Aug 20 11:36:29 1998 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <199808200212.TAA17235@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980820123629.007fd850@mindspring.com> Hi, I'm combining several responses here on early programmable calcs ... At Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:41:17 Doug Yowza wrote: >Hi, Alex. I really think this is the coolest find yet. I have a desktop >programmable computer from 1959, but mine is analog. I haven't heard of >any desktop programmable solid-state digital machine that predates your >Mathatron. So far, I haven't either. The Anita and Friden EC-130 electronic calculators both came out in 1963, they're generally regarded as the first two electronic desktop calculators but neither are programmable. I'm not aware of any other programmable calculator coming onto the market until the Wang units. > >> Another "crossover" machine that I have a little info >> (mainly pictures) of is the HP 9830, called a calculator >> but in fact a computer with BASIC. > >The 9830 doesn't get discussed much, but it's one of my favorites. >There's a lot of noise on this list about the Altair, a "PC" from 1975 >that was just a big box with lights and toggles. In 1972, the HP 9830 was >an elegant light-weight desktop computer with full alphanumeric keyboard, >built-in secondary storage, built-in display, built-in BASIC, and it just >plain works. There was nothing else remotely like it at the time, and it >was even reasonably priced (around $5000, I think). In addition to the pictures I have on my Web site, David Hicks' Museum of HP Calculators has a bunch more info on the 9830 and the available peripherals (including things like printer, plotter, paper tape reader, digitizer, etc.). I was surprised when I got my 9830A and it had aftermarket ROM and memory cards in it. The ROM is a "Fast Basic" card and it and the memory were made by Infotek. The 9830 has a bus architecture for it's main ROM and memory cards, and it has an I/O bus on the rear. I don't know if HP ever published the specs for these buses, perhaps Infotek reverse- engineered the timing/functionality to make their cards. Also curious about the Infotek cards was that the markings on all the ICs on their cards had been intentionally rubbed off. I wonder if that was to make it harder for others to clone their design. At any rate, it predated the Apple II by about 5 years, it has built-in BASIC and storage, and you could add stuff to it. What more could you ask ;-) The darned things are built like a tank, too. Extremely heavy and rugged. There is also a 9830B version, but from what I can tell by comparing the guts they are the same except for the memory cards (the 9830B supports more RAM). It looks like the Infotek memory card in my 9830A was used to upgrade it to the same amount as would be in a maxed-out 9830B (16K, I'm not sure if this is words or bytes). > >-- Doug At Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:12:22 dave dameron wrote: >At 05:41 PM 8/19/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >I found a book I would recommend if anyone finds a copy, although I am still >getting used to it. It is "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples" by >Bell and Newell. It uses strange notation (for me) and even the table of >contents is "virtual". > >Anyway, it includes descriptions of 2 desktop calculators, both about 1968: >an Olivetti 101 (USD$3500) and a HP 9100A. The HP uses core memory, its >program ROM uses 16 layer PC board technology. The HP article is a reprint >from the HP Journal. Does anyone have either of these? Text (and some/most of the photos) from the HP Journal articles about the 9100A (and a lot of other HP calcs) can be found on the Museum of HP Calculators in the "HP Journal Articles" section. These make for very interesting reading about the machine's architecture and how it works. I have a copy of the original patent on the 9100 (unfortunately the quality isn't good enough to scan and I haven't found an on-line source yet), this gives some real insight into how the machine operates. The Olivetti Programma 101 was apparently targeted more for the business market than the scientific market, the pictures of it that I've seen show that it's basically a programmable, four-function calculator with several memory registers. Like the 9100, it used a magnetic card to store programs. >-Dave > At 12:38 AM 8/20/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: > >Somebody with a better sense of calc history should chime in here, but I >think Monroe, Olivetti, HP, and Wang all had programmables in the 60s. As far as I know, the Mathatron, HP9100, and Wang calculators were the only scientific-oriented programmable machines available during the 1960s. I don't know if the Wang LOCI series was programmable or not. The 300-series (300, 310, 320, 360) Wang machines used a separate keyboard/nixie display unit and an electronics box with the actual calculator (on some of the models four keyboard/ display units could be attached to "time-share" the calculator electronics). The electronics box itself wasn't programmable, but one of the keyboard/display models (I think it was the 370) could be programmed to execute a series of key sequences, which were then sent down to the electronics box to do the math. In the early 70s (late 1970 or early 1971), CompuCorp developed a pair of programmable calculators (one printing, one Nixie) that were marketed by Monroe (the Model 1655 is the Nixie one) and Dietzgen. Rick Bensene's Web page has a lot more info about the Wang 300 series calculators. In the 60s, there were business-type programmable machines from Monroe (EPIC 3000), Olivetti (Programma 101), Smith Corona Marchant (Cogito 516 PR), and Canon (Canola 164P). There is also the Burroughs C3660 business programmable, but I don't know if it's a 60s machine or not, and Sony made a programmable Sobax but I'm not sure when. All of these machines were very large and were probably either transistorized or used early Small-Scale integrated circuits. > >I have an HP9100A manual and the first HP _Keyboard_ that describes it. I >think I recall at least four people on the list having a 9100. It was not >the first programmable, but it was the first HP, and it is pretty cool >with its built-in CRT and expansion bus. Apparently there were also aftermarket accessories made for the 9100 by other companies. I recall seeing something on the net from one company that took a 9100 and modified it to become an instrument controller. >-- Doug At Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:33:46 dave dameron wrote: >Yes, that's it. My copy was published in 1971, so the HP9100A is one of the >later computers in it. Yes it is neat with the custom CRT and all the boards >stuffed into its case. I guess it sold for about $6000. The 9100A initially sold for $4995. Its price was dropped to $4495 when the 9100B (with 2x the memory) was introduced (at $4995) a little while later. Hope this info. has been of some interest. REFERENCED LINKS: http://www.hpmuseum.org -- David Hicks' Museum of HP Calculators http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510 -- Rick Bensene's Web Page Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 20 13:48:30 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <8031@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808201655.LAA01299@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 04:52 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >Jeff wrote: > >> Yow!!! That means maybe it will run FLEX! [insert Homer Simpson >> impersonation] > >Could someone please enlighten me... What, pray, is FLEX? For years, it was *THE* disk operating system if you had a 6800/6802 based system. Originally written in the late 70's, it powered the majority of the SS-50 computers until the 6809 came out. Then came FLEX/09, StarDOS, UniFLEX, OS/9. . . . There were other (some better) DOS's that were available at the time from Smoke Signal, Moto, and a couple of others, but FLEX gained alot of support from developers, and had alot of applications. I'm trying to get one of my s-50's working again so I can play with FLEX (I won't settle for emulation when I can have the *real* thing). It was a bit limited, but it was small enough to fit within the 6800's 64K address space, with *plenty* of room to spare! >> Woo Hoo!. Dang! I can just imagine running FLEX at 25Mc! Its performance >> over a 1Mc 6800 must have been blistering! > >Warning. Clock speeds may not be comparable. 6800 and friends >(including 6502) often do more per cycle than 2901s. Well, yeah, but still faster then 1Mc (or 800kc if you didn't modify the cpu board). >That said, the 4052 is a 16 bit system, despite its 8-bit instruction >set. The data path is 16 bit throughout, it fetches two byte >instructions in a single memory cycle, etc. OIC >And Tek do claim some quite impressive performance boosts upgrading from >4051 to 4052 (average gain they claimed was ten times, I think) Yeah, still pretty hot s---. >> Yikes!! I think I may have seen some boards from a system like that one >> in a junk heap last week! It used four 2901's eh? Hm, I'm gonna haveto >> revisit that particular junque pile . . . > >Bear in mind Tony Duell's comments - 16 bit systems based around 4 2901s >used to be common, but may now be worth grabbing anyway. Umm, yeah, but being a 6800 enthusiast, this carries with it some especially interesting possibilities! >I must do some more research into the relationship between 4052 and 6800 >instruction sets. Yes. How the implemented the microcode would be of particular interest. Jeff From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 20 11:50:29 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980820123629.007fd850@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: > In addition to the pictures I have on my Web site, David Hicks' Museum > of HP Calculators has a bunch more info on the 9830 and the > available peripherals (including things like printer, plotter, paper > tape reader, digitizer, etc.). I was surprised when I got my > 9830A and it had aftermarket ROM and memory cards in it. The ROM > is a "Fast Basic" card and it and the memory were made by Infotek. I got an Infotek Mass Memory unit (8" floppy drive) with mine that has the same form factor as the 9830 and sits atop it. I also got several Infotek memory modules. > The darned things are built like a tank, too. Extremely heavy > and rugged. There is also a 9830B version, but from what I can > tell by comparing the guts they are the same except for the > memory cards (the 9830B supports more RAM). It looks like the I have the 9830B. Check out http://www.siconic.com/vcf/rar.htm and scroll down to 06/04/98 to see what all I have with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Aug 20 11:41:05 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980819192810.52370f22@ricochet.net> At 07:23 PM 8/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >> We had quite a few when I was growing up (ds21's, mostly, including a >> wagon) and they were maintained by a Citroen-only shop, but still, I'd > >Having seen the sort of work put out by Citroen Main Dealers in the UK, >I'd sooner let a PC repairman fix one of my computers than let some of Nah, these were frenchmen, (independents) known throughout the state as the best in Citroens. That's all they did. They had no problem working on the citroens and keeping them running. I, on the other hand, couldn't understand the inner or outer workings of those vehicles. I still think that whoever designed 'em must have been jealous of swiss watchmakers, but with all the design skills of the samsonite gorilla. >> And to relate it to classic computers, it was about 10 years ago that I >> drove through downtown SF in a Citroen with a flat tyre and Jerry Pournelle > >Oh, but Citroens are easy to change wheels on. That's what the highest >position on the height controller is for.... Yeah, but you have to remove the (rear) fender to get the wheel off, (I'm not kidding!) and who wants to do that when you've got (what I at the time considered) a major celebrity in the car? I limped along back to Moscone and dropped everyone off before skulking off to a nearby parking lot... P.S., I still have scars on my right hand from another time working on those #$&*@( things... Give me a Land Rover any day! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 12:07:20 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable batt charger Message-ID: <7947203@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 254 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/601bf954/attachment.bin From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 20 12:15:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980820123629.007fd850@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: > tape reader, digitizer, etc.). I was surprised when I got my > 9830A and it had aftermarket ROM and memory cards in it. The ROM > is a "Fast Basic" card and it and the memory were made by Infotek. > The 9830 has a bus architecture for it's main ROM and memory > cards, and it has an I/O bus on the rear. I don't know if HP > ever published the specs for these buses, perhaps Infotek reverse- > engineered the timing/functionality to make their cards. Also Infotek did an amazing amount of stuff for the 9830. All of my Infotek manuals are in storage, so my info is sketchy, but, yes, they reverse engineered the 9830 and made everyting from peripherals to replacement CPU cards! The CPU card was, I think, 2901-based and was advertised as being much faster than the original HP design. > curious about the Infotek cards was that the markings on all > the ICs on their cards had been intentionally rubbed off. I > wonder if that was to make it harder for others to clone their > design. I think this was fairly standard practice for paranoid computer companies, and I think the method used to defeat this copy protection scheme was to XRAY the board! > At any rate, it predated the Apple II by about 5 years, > it has built-in BASIC and storage, and you could add stuff to > it. What more could you ask ;-) Of course, you know that Woz worked at HP before doing the Apple thing. The resemblance of the Apple ][ to the HP desktops (esp. the 9825) is pretty striking. -- Doug From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Aug 20 12:40:53 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <1998Aug20.133847.1767.130892@smtp.itgonline.com> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/20/98 12:59 PM At 07:23 PM 8/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >> We had quite a few when I was growing up (ds21's, mostly, including a >> wagon) and they were maintained by a Citroen-only shop, but still, I'd > >Having seen the sort of work put out by Citroen Main Dealers in the UK, >I'd sooner let a PC repairman fix one of my computers than let some of Nah, these were frenchmen, (independents) known throughout the state as the best in Citroens. That's all they did. They had no problem working on the citroens and keeping them running. I, on the other hand, couldn't understand the inner or outer workings of those vehicles. I still think that whoever designed 'em must have been jealous of swiss watchmakers, but with all the design skills of the samsonite gorilla. >> And to relate it to classic computers, it was about 10 years ago that I >> drove through downtown SF in a Citroen with a flat tyre and Jerry Pournelle > >Oh, but Citroens are easy to change wheels on. That's what the highest >position on the height controller is for.... Yeah, but you have to remove the (rear) fender to get the wheel off, (I'm not kidding!) and who wants to do that when you've got (what I at the time considered) a major celebrity in the car? I limped along back to Moscone and dropped everyone off before skulking off to a nearby parking lot... P.S., I still have scars on my right hand from another time working on those #$&*@( things... Give me a Land Rover any day! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug20.125914.1767.58540; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:59:14 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id JAA05871; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:56:49 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA30122 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:56:44 -0700 Received: from uxl.longs.com ([199.108.9.10]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id JAA17247 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:56:43 -0700 Received: from w999999.longs.com ([10.24.52.164]) by axn.longs.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA6F2E for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:46:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.16.19980819192810.52370f22@ricochet.net> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Uncle Roger To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: sinasohn@ricochet.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From aknight at mindspring.com Thu Aug 20 12:39:51 1998 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Kaypro 4 for trade Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980820133951.007d6b30@mindspring.com> Hi, If any of ya'll out there are interested in a Kaypro 4 "suitcase" computer, I have one on the ol' "trading block". The machine itself is complete and working but I do not have any diskettes for it. On power up it displays a "please insert system diskette in drive" type of message. Per my previous postings I'm mainly interested in calculator stuff (and have a detailed "want" list on my Web site). Please write me directly if you have any interest in this machine. Regards, Alex aknight@mindspring.com Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 20 12:53:50 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Taking care of magazines Message-ID: <199808201753.KAA00892@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1271 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/c35e5331/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 20 13:02:01 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable batt charger Message-ID: <199808201802.LAA26417@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Can someone tell me what the output of the Mac Portable battery charger >should >be? (What I should read across the charger contacts?) When I plug it in >using a >known-good AC adapter, then place the battery on it, there's no LED glow. It's most likely the same as the Mac Portable's power adapter, which is 7.5vdc, 1.5A. Paul Kelbaugh has Mac Portable power adapters for sale for around $25, I believe. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 20 13:33:39 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <199808201833.AA10602@world.std.com> < For years, it was *THE* disk operating system if you had a 6800/6802 bas < system. Originally written in the late 70's, it powered the majority o < the SS-50 computers until the 6809 came out. Then came FLEX/09, StarDOS < UniFLEX, OS/9. . . . Are sources available? From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 13:56:48 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7950457@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Tom Owad wrote: >Can someone tell me what the output of the Mac Portable battery charger >should >be? (What I should read across the charger contacts?) When I plug it in >using a >known-good AC adapter, then place the battery on it, there's no LED glow. It's most likely the same as the Mac Portable's power adapter, which is 7.5vdc, 1.5A. --- end of quote --- Thanks for the info. Actually, according to Apple Service Source docs (found 'em after I posted the question) the charger puts out about a volt less. The power adapter itself is fine, but the external charger seems to be fried. I have a more pressing problem now. Basically, the computer has a grand mal seizure whenever the internal hard drive is connected. I've got three semi-functional Portables, and am hoping to wind up with at least one that works. But they all seem to have bad hard disks (Apple 40SC internal) -- if the drive is connected at power-up, it makes a tick-tick-tick noise, the screen flashes, and it repeatedly plays interrupted Death Chimes until I turn it off. The drive never actually spins up. I'm not familiar with that hard drive model. Since there's no separate power cable, I assume it's some sort of funky low-power-combined-with-SCSI thing. So, anyone got any ideas about what to do with them (besides drop-kick 'em into a swimming pool)? Is there some goofy reset I can do, or a bad fuse somewhere to replace? If there's no repair possible, then is there any other kind of hard drive that will work in a Portable? Or does someone have a spare they'd sell/trade? -- MB From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 20 16:07:43 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <8045@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808201914.OAA02050@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Not that I know of. TSC went under some years ago; we all assumed that it took the source to its grave. Rumour has it that some former employees of TSC *may* possess some sources, but they have not stepped foreward. FWIW: A co-worker of mine was approached some years ago with an offer to sell the FLEX sources. My co-worker wasn't interested, and the guy went away. Don't know who he was. For all we know, it ended up in the dumpster. :-/ Jeff At 02:33 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< For years, it was *THE* disk operating system if you had a 6800/6802 bas >< system. Originally written in the late 70's, it powered the majority o >< the SS-50 computers until the 6809 came out. Then came FLEX/09, StarDOS >< UniFLEX, OS/9. . . . > >Are sources available? > From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Thu Aug 20 14:08:06 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: I have the same problem with my Mac Portable but I havent had much time to tinker with it. Have you replaced the 9 volt battery? I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it in some strange, phases-of-the-moon way. Tony (this is my hit the home email from work route, dont reply to this email address) -- On 20 Aug 98 14:56:48 EDT Marion Bates wrote: >--- Tom Owad wrote: >>Can someone tell me what the output of the Mac Portable battery charger >>should >>be? (What I should read across the charger contacts?) When I plug it in >>using a >>known-good AC adapter, then place the battery on it, there's no LED glow. > >It's most likely the same as the Mac Portable's power adapter, which is >7.5vdc, 1.5A. >--- end of quote --- > >Thanks for the info. Actually, according to Apple Service Source docs (found 'em after I posted the question) the charger puts out about a volt less. The power adapter itself is fine, but the external charger seems to be fried. > >I have a more pressing problem now. Basically, the computer has a grand mal seizure whenever the internal hard drive is connected. > >I've got three semi-functional Portables, and am hoping to wind up with at least one that works. But they all seem to have bad hard disks (Apple 40SC internal) -- if the drive is connected at power-up, it makes a tick-tick-tick noise, the screen flashes, and it repeatedly plays interrupted Death Chimes until I turn it off. The drive never actually spins up. > >I'm not familiar with that hard drive model. Since there's no separate power cable, I assume it's some sort of funky low-power-combined-with-SCSI thing. So, anyone got any ideas about what to do with them (besides drop-kick 'em into a swimming pool)? Is there some goofy reset I can do, or a bad fuse somewhere to replace? > >If there's no repair possible, then is there any other kind of hard drive that will work in a Portable? Or does someone have a spare they'd sell/trade? > >-- MB > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 14:19:05 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7951044@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 397 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/bd1d6885/attachment.bin From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Aug 20 14:01:20 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:15:28 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199808201901.MAA08798@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > Of course, you know that Woz worked at HP before doing the Apple thing. > The resemblance of the Apple ][ to the HP desktops (esp. the 9825) is > pretty striking. Look inside a Lisa someday -- it's got color-coded card lifters. That's what convinced me that Apple of the late 1970s was just an HP wannabe. -Frank McConnell From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 20 14:36:03 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808201940.PAA16852@charity.harvard.net> I have no idea if it makes any difference or not. My guess is that the 9V powers some parameter ram or something. It just makes me wonder that all three Mac portables you have all contain dead HDs ? Tony -----Original Message----- From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU [mailto:Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:19 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) --- "Tony Dellett" wrote: I have the same problem with my Mac Portable but I havent had much time to tinker with it. Have you replaced the 9 volt battery? I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it in some strange, phases-of-the-moon way. --- end of quote --- I checked the backup battery and it read 8.7 volts or something, which I figured was adequate...maybe not? -- MB From hansp at digiweb.com Thu Aug 20 14:42:40 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. References: <199808201914.OAA02050@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <35DC7C30.9D6D3302@digiweb.com> Jeff Kaneko wrote: > Not that I know of. TSC went under some years ago; we all assumed > that it took the source to its grave. Rumour has it that some former > employees of TSC *may* possess some sources, but they have not stepped > foreward. > > FWIW: A co-worker of mine was approached some years ago with an offer > to sell the FLEX sources. My co-worker wasn't interested, and the > guy went away. Don't know who he was. For all we know, it ended up in > the dumpster. :-/ Some of this can be found at . Also further FLEX stuff at . Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 21 14:36:54 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808201941.PAA21120@gate.usaor.net> Is the mail Lead-Acid battery any good? If the battery is discharged or shot, the computer won't power up at all. This may be your problem. I believe it is a 6V battery. If I'm correct, then one out of a power wheels thing should work to find out if it's a battery, or a bad computer. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Marion Bates > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) > Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:19 PM > > I checked the backup battery and it read 8.7 volts or something, which I > figured was adequate...maybe not? > > > -- MB From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 21 14:44:41 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808201949.PAA22901@gate.usaor.net> It plays death chimes?? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 PS>> do you maybe want to sell one of those? ---------- > From: Marion Bates > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) > Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 2:56 PM > I've got three semi-functional Portables, and am hoping to wind up with at least one that works. But they all seem to have bad hard disks (Apple 40SC internal) -- if the drive is connected at power-up, it makes a tick-tick-tick noise, the screen flashes, and it repeatedly plays interrupted Death Chimes until I turn it off. The drive never actually spins up. From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 20 14:56:23 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808201956.MAA02529@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >If there's no repair possible, then is there any other kind of hard drive >that will work in a Portable? Or does someone have a spare they'd sell/trade? Well, the Paul Kelbaugh I mentioned earliear has adapters to make your Portable work with ordinairy SCSI hard drives. $30, IIRC. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 20 14:39:20 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808202001.QAA19449@charity.harvard.net> Hmmm... Seems that if a Mac Portable battery is dead, you cant power the machine even with the AC adaptor. I'm certain this has something to do with my problem. It also seems that if the Mac Portable battery ever gets discharged below 5.4v it becomes a doorstop. Tony From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 20 14:45:38 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <199808202001.QAA19450@charity.harvard.net> Hmmm... Check out this URL... You can replace the internal HD40SC with any 3.5" drive ya want. Tony http://www.micromac.com/products/portable_scsi.html -----Original Message----- From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU [mailto:Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:19 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) --- "Tony Dellett" wrote: I have the same problem with my Mac Portable but I havent had much time to tinker with it. Have you replaced the 9 volt battery? I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it in some strange, phases-of-the-moon way. --- end of quote --- I checked the backup battery and it read 8.7 volts or something, which I figured was adequate...maybe not? -- MB From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 20 17:12:06 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <8056@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808202019.PAA02510@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 09:42 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >Jeff Kaneko wrote: > >> Not that I know of. TSC went under some years ago; we all assumed >> that it took the source to its grave. Rumour has it that some former >> employees of TSC *may* possess some sources, but they have not stepped >> foreward. >> >> FWIW: A co-worker of mine was approached some years ago with an offer >> to sell the FLEX sources. My co-worker wasn't interested, and the >> guy went away. Don't know who he was. For all we know, it ended up in >> the dumpster. :-/ > >Some of this can be found at . Also >further FLEX stuff at . > >Regards, > >_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- >Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > > But all of this is for the 6809. None of this references the 6800/6802. I contend that the original FLEX/2 sources will remain lost to the world. It's a shame, too, as it was the first commercially successful OS for *any* Motorola processor. It was to Moto what CP/M was to Intel. Jeff From g at kurico.com Thu Aug 20 15:26:52 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <199808201941.PAA21120@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: Actually it should power up with the 9v and the power supply. If you have a fresh 9v battery and have the unit plugged in and it still won't come up, then the problem could still be with the drive. Have you tried removing it and seeing if the unit boots? Also, have you tried pressing both the reset and nmi buttons on the side to reset it? George > Is the mail Lead-Acid battery any good? If the battery is discharged or > shot, the computer won't power up at all. This may be your problem. I > believe it is a 6V battery. If I'm correct, then one out of a power > wheels thing should work to find out if it's a battery, or a bad computer. > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > ---------- > > From: Marion Bates > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Re: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) > > Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:19 PM > > > > I checked the backup battery and it read 8.7 volts or something, which I > > figured was adequate...maybe not? > > > > > > -- MB From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 15:44:29 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7954700@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- George Currie wrote: Actually it should power up with the 9v and the power supply. If you have a fresh 9v battery and have the unit plugged in and it still won't come up, then the problem could still be with the drive. Have you tried removing it and seeing if the unit boots? Also, have you tried pressing both the reset and nmi buttons on the side to reset it? --- end of quote --- Yes, it's been powering up with just the AC adapter and 9-volt battery, and it boots fine with the hard drive cable disconnected (it's happy booting from a floppy). I'm pretty sure I tried pressing the side buttons in all sorts of combinations -- what specifically are you describing? Just press them and let go, or hold them down while powering on, etc. ? Thanks for the suggestions. -- MB From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 15:48:08 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7954811@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- "Dellett, Anthony" wrote: Hmmm... Check out this URL... You can replace the internal HD40SC with any 3.5" drive ya want. Tony http://www.micromac.com/products/portable_scsi.html --- end of quote --- Wow! After I tinker with these old ones a little more, I might just go with that. Thanks! -- MB From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Thu Aug 20 16:17:10 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:06 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <7954700@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: My portable powers up without the battery inside it as well. I'm assuming by your email address "dartmouth.edu" that you are in Nova Scotia? (If not - pardon my ignorance). If so these machines have probably been subjected to some cold weather. I have lost 2 Mac Portable hard drives to cold weather - I'd put them in the trunk of my car, travel to location X and then fire up the Mac only to learn that the drive didn't work anymore. This was most likely due to condensation inside the drives. If I read your post correctly the drives aren't spinning up at all, but they emit noises which make it sound as if they are trying to - in this case they are most likely stuck. I have convinced old hard drives to become 'unstuck' by whacking them on the side. I know it sounds cruel but if the drive isn't working there is nothing to loose. Also, when the death chimes sound, is there a picture of a sad mac on the screen with an error number? The error number (if I remember correctly) may be a key indication as to what is happening. If your mac is repeatedly sounding the death chimes it is in some kind of endless loop and you are most likely not getting to the error #. I have also opened the drives and lubricated the 'spindle' or whatever it's called - however doing so allowed dust particles inside the drive. The end result though was a reliable, non sticking drive that works to this day. Perhaps I was lucky... Markus Blumrich - mailto:ab594@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Student: Anatomy & Computer Science / University of Saskatchewan http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab594/Profile.html "Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 12:34:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808200109.VAA19839@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 19, 98 09:06:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/d42e5031/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 12:46:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Charging batteries In-Reply-To: <199808200145.BAA27772@cyber2.servtech.com> from "Christian Fandt" at Aug 19, 98 09:45:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3084 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/d7a38f28/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 12:50:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808200300.AA27089@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 19, 98 11:00:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/aa06f391/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 12:54:52 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: name this keypad In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 20, 98 02:20:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 434 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/210a0fd4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 13:01:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980819192810.52370f22@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 20, 98 09:41:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/fb0cdc03/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 13:06:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 20, 98 12:15:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/bbc0a14e/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 20 16:26:13 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Battery? (RE: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt ch arger)) Message-ID: Where can I get a replacement battery? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU [mailto:Marion.Bates@Dartmouth.EDU] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 1:48 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) --- "Dellett, Anthony" wrote: Hmmm... Check out this URL... You can replace the internal HD40SC with any 3.5" drive ya want. Tony http://www.micromac.com/products/portable_scsi.html --- end of quote --- Wow! After I tinker with these old ones a little more, I might just go with that. Thanks! -- MB From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Aug 20 16:23:24 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980820143548.6f0f360c@ricochet.net> At 12:08 PM 8/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have the same problem with my Mac Portable but >I havent had much time to tinker with it. > >Have you replaced the 9 volt battery? I'm wondering >if that might have something to do with it in some >strange, phases-of-the-moon way. First off, check the MacPort FAQ at . The hard drive is a proprietary connector, but you can build an adapter or purchase one ready-made (see the FAQ). The Mac Port needs power to boot. That power has to come from either the 6v LA battery or the 9v. The 9v needs to be in good shape though. To use the 9v, remove the cover to the big battery compartment (the cover trips a switch when it's in place). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Aug 20 16:23:25 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Punch cards (again) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980820140936.6f0f0a3a@ricochet.net> I was watching a local show called New Media News (http://www.newmedianews.com/) last night and they had a bit with Gwen Bell talking about punch cards. She said that they were invented by Hollerith at the end of the last century for use with the census. Was I drunk or did we just go through a whole discussion about the cards being invented for the Jacquard loom? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From kevan at heydon.org Thu Aug 20 16:49:16 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980820123629.007fd850@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: > > So far, I haven't either. The Anita and Friden EC-130 electronic > calculators both came out in 1963, they're generally regarded as > the first two electronic desktop calculators but neither are I reckon that the original Anita was 1962. The reason I say this is because my mother used to be a comptometer operator for the national coal board (in the UK.) She distinctly remembers showing my father the electronic comptometer before the company christmas dance in 1962. (It was the year before they were married.) She also remembers that they complained about the display and that Sumlock took them away for a while and the brought them back with a new filter in front on the nixie tubes. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 20 17:05:33 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Punch cards (again) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C550@NT486> >She said that they were invented by Hollerith at the end of the last century for use with the census. Was I drunk or did we just go through a whole discussion about the cards being invented for the Jacquard loom? Different types of punched cards. Hollerith invented the modern computer punch card. The Jacquard loom used punched cards in a linked belt type arrangement, similar to a player piano, to control the shuttle of his loom. Jacquard had more in common with pianos than computers. Jack Peacock From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 17:24:32 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7957967@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Markus Blumrich wrote: My portable powers up without the battery inside it as well. I'm assuming by your email address "dartmouth.edu" that you are in Nova Scotia? (If not - pardon my ignorance). If so these machines have probably been subjected to some cold weather. I have lost 2 Mac Portable hard drives to cold weather - I'd put them in the trunk of my car, travel to location X and then fire up the Mac only to learn that the drive didn't work anymore. This was most likely due to condensation inside the drives. ---- Actually, it's Dartmouth College (NH) but I'm telnetting in from Miami, FL because I'm home for the summer. As far as I know, these drives haven't seen cold weather, but it's certainly possible. ---- If I read your post correctly the drives aren't spinning up at all, but they emit noises which make it sound as if they are trying to - in this case they are most likely stuck. I have convinced old hard drives to become 'unstuck' by whacking them on the side. I know it sounds cruel but if the drive isn't working there is nothing to loose. ---- Yeah, I tried that -- it's worked many times before, but not now. (The technician I worked for six years ago used to fix Mac SE's with sticky hard drives by picking up the whole computer and giving it a quick half-spin with a sudden stop -- the torque loosens the lubricant.) ---- Also, when the death chimes sound, is there a picture of a sad mac on the screen with an error number? The error number (if I remember correctly) may be a key indication as to what is happening. If your mac is repeatedly sounding the death chimes it is in some kind of endless loop and you are most likely not getting to the error #. ---- When I let it go long enough, I get a sad mac with error codes which I haven't looked up in the TIL yet. They all translate to some hardware (occasionally software) problem diagnosis. ---- I have also opened the drives and lubricated the 'spindle' or whatever it's called - however doing so allowed dust particles inside the drive. The end result though was a reliable, non sticking drive that works to this day. Perhaps I was lucky... --- end of quote --- Huh, I always thought that opening up a drive would wreck it -- maybe I'll try that with one of them. Thanks. But wait, there's more! New problem. I have an external hard drive attached to the least messed-up Portable, which boots nicely, but anytime I insert a floppy disk, the machine restarts over and over. What triggers it is pushing the tiny white button just inside the floppy (it gets pressed by the disk usually, but I was trying to see what exactly was setting the restart loop in motion, and when I pushed down on that button alone that did it). It WAS working fine with floppies before. Guess the logic board is having problems handling both at once. Aaargh! Three bad drives and now *two* fouled-up motherboards. -- MB From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 17:30:23 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Battery? (RE: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt ch arger)) Message-ID: <7958045@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 706 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/08aa4b37/attachment.bin From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 20 17:46:10 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <001401bdcc2c$d6f8d160$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Francois wrote: > Hi John, > I would love to join you in that effort. I am also interested in acquiring > on of each unit. Maybe we can poll our resources and make a few people happy > in the process. > Anyway, Eric if you can find out the actual cost per palette that would be a > great indicator of the fund needed. Typically, when stuff is sold for scrap like that, it is sold by the pound. Some of my friends here in the electronic salvage speak of buying at 3 cents/pound. If that is a near valid figure there, then a penny over would likely get the whole load rather cheaply. - don > Thank you for flagging this one. > Francois > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit the desperately in need of update > Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > -----Original Message----- > From: John R. Keys Jr. > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... > > > >I'm right here in the Twincities also and would like to purchase some of > >the machines. Here's my offer to those on the list that want some of these > >items in one's and two's e-mail your list and the price you want to pay for > >each item and I will make them a offer for all of it. You have only pay me > >the shipping cost plus the item cost. If I get it all cheap enough them I > >will divide the number of units into the price I pay and charge the lower > >price per unit. Say I get 100 items at $300 that means the cost per item > >would be $3. I do not need it all I also just want one of each type of unit > >for my collection that I do not already have. Let me know as soon as > >possible before it's all gone. Thanks Eric for the tip and I will get back > >to my Friday with some type of offer based me being able maybe see some of > >these units. > >At 09:09 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Ok, after a few more days of scoping things out, here's the deal: I > >>started working for GE Capital, at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Minnesota. > >>They are disposing of alot of the mac systems, and I figured that I > >>would be able to pull the ROM's out of the old ones that I knew were > >>never going to be used again, ever. (Just so you know, I would probably > >>lose my job due to that but it's a shame to let such things go to waste. > >>If someone reading this is from my new employers, I haven't done > >>anything!!!!!) > >> > >> Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to > >>dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy > >>quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 > >>bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the > >>metal content. bummer.) > >> > >> We have lots of old IBM mainframe systems, Quads, CRTs, etc etc. also, > >>a good lot of those macs were all used by the Graphic Design dept; so > >>they are chock full of cool stuff (tons of ram, souped up video cards, > >>yadda yadda.) lots of hard drives, all have token ring cards. (I > >>reiterate: LOTS of token ring cards. I'm swimming in them.) I currently > >>have a large pallet of mac 14/15 inch monitors; a pallet of IIsi, IIci, > >>IIcx's; Quadra 700s, Quadra 950 servers(awesome machines), PowerPC > >>7100/66, 7100/80's. also other random ones. also, *several* pallets of > >>Duo Dock 230's and 280's. tons of NEC versa V/50's and 4000c's. quite a > >>few 21 inch mac color monitors (definitely not for sale, unless you made > >>an attractive offer to my boss!) > >> > >> alot of this stuff is earmarked for employee sales, but alot of it is > >>also headed for disposal. If anyone is truly interested, I will print > >>out and give serious inquiries to my boss. emailing the head of a large > >>national corporation won't do much, but I can give your requests to the > >>right person. > >> > >> in Minneapolis, Minnesota. > >> > >>-Eric > >> > >> (PS. - I only offered to grab roms or small chip components because > >>they wouldn't be used where the machines were headed, and they wouldn't > >>be missed. I cannot personally recover systems or anything of that > >>nature. I am sure however that my boss would be very reasonable if you > >>made an offer!) > >> > >> PPS- we also have several sony trinitron touch screens. anyone know of > >>a use for these? > >> > >> > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 20 17:57:37 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <9807209036.AA903657288@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > Jeff wrote: > > > Yow!!! That means maybe it will run FLEX! [insert Homer Simpson > > impersonation] > > Could someone please enlighten me... What, pray, is FLEX? > > > Woo Hoo!. Dang! I can just imagine running FLEX at 25Mc! Its performance > > over a 1Mc 6800 must have been blistering! > > Warning. Clock speeds may not be comparable. 6800 and friends > (including 6502) often do more per cycle than 2901s. > > That said, the 4052 is a 16 bit system, despite its 8-bit instruction > set. The data path is 16 bit throughout, it fetches two byte > instructions in a single memory cycle, etc. > > And Tek do claim some quite impressive performance boosts upgrading from > 4051 to 4052 (average gain they claimed was ten times, I think) I remember when the 4052 made the scene, and it was dramatically faster that the 4051! - don > > Yikes!! I think I may have seen some boards from a system like that one > > in a junk heap last week! It used four 2901's eh? Hm, I'm gonna haveto > > revisit that particular junque pile . . . > > Bear in mind Tony Duell's comments - 16 bit systems based around 4 2901s > used to be common, but may now be worth grabbing anyway. > > I must do some more research into the relationship between 4052 and 6800 > instruction sets. > > P. > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From g at kurico.com Thu Aug 20 18:17:39 1998 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <7954700@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: > --- George Currie wrote: > Actually it should power up with the 9v and the power supply. If > you have a fresh 9v battery and have the unit plugged in and it still > won't come up, then the problem could still be with the drive. Have you > tried removing it and seeing if the unit boots? Also, have you tried > pressing both the reset and nmi buttons on the side to reset it? --- end > of quote --- > > Yes, it's been powering up with just the AC adapter and 9-volt battery, > and it boots fine with the hard drive cable disconnected (it's happy > booting from a floppy). > > I'm pretty sure I tried pressing the side buttons in all sorts of > combinations -- what specifically are you describing? Just press them and > let go, or hold them down while powering on, etc. ? I can't remember the exact sequence, but I think it's press and hold the reset followed by the nmi then release, I'll have to check the docs to be sure. You do this while the machine is on, trying to boot. This should reset the machine and put into the sleeping state. You can then press a key to wake it up. Sometimes the portable gets into a funky state and doing the above will clear it up. This happens mostly when the battery starts to flake out, as it has enough power to start coming up, but then poops out. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 16:35:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <7950457@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 20, 98 02:56:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/124f5a26/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 20 16:37:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <199808201901.MAA08798@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Aug 20, 98 12:01:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 478 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/304abb08/attachment.ksh From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Aug 20 15:14:43 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Conner HD's stickums: portable Mac HD probs. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980820100326.00c0b100@pc> References: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <199808202350.TAA12695@commercial.cgocable.net> Dead or no spin Conners... Anyone who thought it's bad bearing grease... not really. Bad bearings rarely happens, did tear down those dead Conners for failure analysis. It's the platters and heads stuck together after heads sliding on platter during spin up and spin down too often and for long time wearing out the protective/lubing surface. One word of Conner's designations on type of HD form factors: no zeros between CP3 and the amount of formatted size is always between 2/3 height to half height, One zero between CP3 and the xxx size is always 1" and extra 0's often signify next generations usually. Okay, Those problem HD's you saw in Mac portable and most Mac's that used Conner and only once with early Quantums but that is only once. I will focus only on Conner because I know this very well. That is from going though over 40 of them on that trusty bench in 3-5 years period. Most died from platters/heads stickums and some died from ground up platters especially on CP30xxx and CP300xxx and up and to lesser degree blown logic boards. I recently rebuilt a CP30174E after I finally found a logic board for it after 3 years of searching. For now no more Conners ever and thankfully that Seagate "killed" Conner. I usually don't bother the Conner hd's any longer as they're getting OLD and spare parts I had is all gone now. To confirm that your conner hd is stuck, turn on your portable and give the protable a sharp turn to sudden stop parallel with table that instant, and give once or twice after first one with turn on. Suggest putting two layers of slippery materials on table to help the easy sliding around. Jason D. PS: My friend is sending the Compaq Portable III to me with dead Conner (hint, hint!) in it. Found it along with Deskpro 386/25 in dumper! email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 19:41:59 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7959810@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Tony Duell wrote: Do you have a working battery in the machine? IIRC, the PSU can't supply enough current on it's own to get the machine and hard disk started up. When the hard disk tries to spin up, the PSU shuts down, etc. Giving you exactly what you're seeing -tony --- end of quote --- Really? I'm charging a pair of batteries overnight. Tomorrow I'll see if anything works with a charged battery. I thought that with the 9-volt backup and the power adapter, that was enough juice -- Uncle Roger, is that what you were saying earlier? Thank you very much! -- MB From rax at warbaby.com Thu Aug 20 21:06:37 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Someone Looking for Help Message-ID: Is this iron old enough that someone here could help Vicki? To: silent-tristero@world.std.com From: Vicki Rosenzweig Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: help--trailing edge equipment Sender: silent-tristero-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: Vicki Rosenzweig Status: U I'm not sure this is relevant to tristero, but I can't think of who else to ask. I have a network of three Sun Sparc IPXs, plus an Annex II terminal server and a bunch of dumb terminals hanging off the Annex. Xylogics, the company that made the Annex, is no longer supporting that model, at all--the last time I tried calling them about something, the only suggestion they were willing to make was "we could sell you something more modern." It may come to that, but I hope not. Here's the situation: for Reasons Too Complicated To Explain (in other words, I'd start frothing at the mouth), the cables that connect the Annex to its dumb terminals and to the Ethernet are in the open, under a desk. Thus, they get kicked semi-regularly. Someone kicked the cable connecting the Annex to the Ethernet transceiver loose this afternoon. The first I knew of it was when someone came to find me, and asked why all the terminals were dead. When I tried to plug it back in, I found I couldn't--a couple of the pins on the transceiver had been bent out of shape. I replaced the transceiver (with one of a different model, but which I know is good--it worked elsewhere in this network). Nothing. I rebooted the Annex: it gets as far as a set of lights that translate to "trying to reach the Ethernet to download software." I got desperate, pulled the only other cable of the same kind off the network (which involved undoing about eight NFS cross-mounts), and plugged it in instead. Nothing. So, basically: I tried replacing the transceiver, I tried replacing the cable, and the Annex box insists that it's fine, it just needs to download software. Does anyone have any idea of what might be going on here, or of how I can fix it? (I do know where to buy a live chicken, but I suspect management would look askance if I brought it into the office.) Signed, Desperate in New York Vicki Rosenzweig vr@cr.acm.org | vr@interport.net http://www.users.interport.net/~vr/ -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 20 19:52:42 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980820100326.00c0b100@pc> References: <35DB8327.15E5@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980820195242.006b800c@pop3.concentric.net> You will get a free pass to the museum, I started talking with the State today to setup my non profit status and to get help from them (read money) for the museum. John At 10:03 AM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 09:09 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >> Anyway, one of my bosses, the asset manager, is actively trying to >>dispose of pallets of stuff. So if someone out there can actually buy >>quite a bit, that might be nice... apparently last year he made 300 >>bucks selling all systems to scrap dealers that melted it all for the >>metal content. bummer.) > >You have to wonder if it's more important for some people to simply >"get rid of" something, than to find it put to good use. If these >machines are functional, the companies involved could value the PR >from donating them to good causes more than the few hundred dollars >of scrap value. > >An enterprising person could estimate the potential return on >buying the palettes and reselling the parts. If these systems >are functional, I have no doubt you could set yourself up in >business, buying the machines, stripping them, learning about >reviving them, reconfiguring them, and then reselling them. >It would be a good summer job for a school kid, or even an >adult. :-) > >SCSI hard drives hold their value a bit longer than other types. >RAM that still functions can be reused. Even dead RAM chips >have value - search the net, you'll find people who buy SIMMs >at discount prices, then desolder the individual chips and >reassemble working SIMMs. > >John R. Keys Jr. - when are you opening a shop where we can >buy all the stuff you've hoarded? > >- John > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 20 19:59:36 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable batt charger In-Reply-To: <7947203@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980820195936.006b7e70@pop3.concentric.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/2b23874b/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 20 20:12:20 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: here's a Lisa/Apple /// resource Message-ID: <7960321@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> I'm posting some info I already sent to someone privately. I wanted to get permission from Mr. Craig first, in case he was trying to keep the volume of requests down or something. My apologies for wasted bandwidth if y'all already knew about him -- just trying to help. - MB --- awhile ago, Sam Ismail wrote: Ok, so I'd like to make use of the recent discussion we had concerning hard drive repair and attack the "widget" drive in my Lisa 2/10 to see if I can bring it back to life. Does anybody know where I can find technical info on this drive? A web resource that I don't know about perhaps? --- end of quote --- David T. Craig, email 71533.606@compuserve.com, has just about EVERYTHING ever written about/for the Lisa. (Even the Product Introduction Plan!) There's a list of his stuff at http://www.atomicnet.com.au/simon/lisa/LisaLegacy/References.html. While you're there, check out his Lisa Legacy paper. He sent me copies of Lisa repair stuff from Apple, Sun Remarketing, and Larry Pina's "Mac Repair Secrets" book, as well as some historical info and a set of Lisa Office System 3.0 diskettes and LisaTest diagnostic diskettes w/ instructions. He copied the written stuff for ten cents a page and the diskettes for a buck apiece, plus shipping. He also has some stuff for the Apple ///, but I don't know what. Email him for info. If anyone wants Lisa help right away, I can look up error codes and other stuff in the manuals he sent me, and email an answer usually within a day. My 2/10 displayed error 84, which means the boot blocks had been erased, but luckily LisaTest reported no damaged blocks, so all it needs is a low-level format. Sun Remarketing will reformat Widget drives and send them back (which is, according to the manuals, your only hope if LOS installer refuses to do it, as was the case with mine). It costs $75 to have them do it, which includes return shipping. They will install the OS of your choice (LOS or MacWorks, maybe Pascal Workshop but I don't know for sure). Sun Remarketing's phone number is 1-800-821-3221. If you get someone who's never heard of the Lisa or some such nonsense (which happened to me the first time) ask for Brian, ext. 340. He seems to know what's up. -- MB From ecloud at goodnet.com Thu Aug 20 20:19:08 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980820195242.006b800c@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Aug 20, 98 07:52:42 pm Message-ID: <199808210119.SAA26519@goodnet.com> > >buying the palettes and reselling the parts. If these systems > >are functional, I have no doubt you could set yourself up in > >business, buying the machines, stripping them, learning about > >reviving them, reconfiguring them, and then reselling them. Like one local scapper, who has finally "wised up" and is building a large warehouse to retail his stuff instead of leaving it out in the dust and rain to await the mexicans with hammers. For anybody in Phoenix, it's at 7th Ave. and Magnolia. He sells stuff cheap so far if you can rescue it in time. We'll see if it stays that way. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * robotics * virtual reality * ham radio * knowledge base * Star Trek * From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 20 20:16:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Punch cards (again) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980820140936.6f0f0a3a@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > I was watching a local show called New Media News > (http://www.newmedianews.com/) last night and they had a bit with Gwen Bell > talking about punch cards. She said that they were invented by Hollerith > at the end of the last century for use with the census. Was I drunk or did > we just go through a whole discussion about the cards being invented for > the Jacquard loom? Jacquard used them first in his loom. Hollerith borrowed the idea for his tabulating machines. Hollerith's company turned into IBM, which used them extensively for programming. So Hollerith invented them for use in programming counting machines, which is why she perhaps attributed the invention to him. But in fact, Jacquard was the first to use them in machinery. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 20 20:21:22 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <7957967@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 20 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > But wait, there's more! New problem. I have an external hard drive > attached to the least messed-up Portable, which boots nicely, but > anytime I insert a floppy disk, the machine restarts over and over. What > triggers it is pushing the tiny white button just inside the floppy (it > gets pressed by the disk usually, but I was trying to see what exactly > was setting the restart loop in motion, and when I pushed down on that > button alone that did it). It WAS working fine with floppies before. It sounds to me like you have a power supply problem my friend. From what you've told us thus far, it seems that whenever a device requiring lots of power, like a floppy or hard drive, turns on the computer starts an endless cycle of rebooting. This could indicate that the power being sucked up by the drive is so much that it shuts down the computer. Then the computer comes back up and the hard drive or floppy is still spinning (and sucking juice) so it shuts down again, then comes back up and etc. Just a guess. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 20 20:19:36 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Update on Mac Run Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980820201936.006bc640@pop3.concentric.net> So far I have heard from 12 people wanting a total 35 cpu's and 4 monitors. I would have liked to make them a offer this Friday but this is not enough units to purchase it all. This what I will do now, I will connact a scrape dealer I know and offer to buy it all with him only if he allows me to pull the units you guys want first and he gets what's left. This way we all can get our units at a low price with a bulk purchase by the pound. I have not heard back from Eric if his boss is willing sell and the date of the employee sale. I will until Monday to see how many more people want in otherwise the 12 of you will get your items if the sale is a go. From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Aug 20 20:39:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: In search of working XT IDE drives Message-ID: <35DCCFED.9CB2C61E@bbtel.com> I need a couple Seagate ST351A/X hard drives in working condition. If you have some for sale, trade or otherwise let me know soon. Any other IDE drive that will definitely work with a Seagate ST05X controller also wanted in 40 or more megabyte capacity. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From stanp at storm.ca Thu Aug 20 20:59:05 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: car computers References: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980817101613.2d5fdc5c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35DCD469.AD39D993@storm.ca> Joe wrote: > At 02:07 AM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > > > >> sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! > >> > >Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's > >the Hemi in? > > A 1970 Superbird what else! Big engine, big car, NO computers! > > I also have a '70 Dodge Challenger RT convertible with a 440 6 pak. :-) > These are the remains of my car collecting days. > The answer is cubic horsepower. What was the question??? :-}) Stan From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Aug 20 21:18:19 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: FW: Old VAX hardware for sale Message-ID: <199808210218.CAA27016@cyber2.servtech.com> FWIW Dept: Found this in comp.os.vms.... You Southwest folks may be interested. If they were close I sure would consider them as I'd like to find a Qbus SCSI controller (or simply use the machine as is instead of upgrading my MVII.) From: mesprime@aol.com (MES PRIME) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: Old VAX hardware for sale Lines: 24 Message-ID: <1998081415580800.LAA06833@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Aug 1998 15:58:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Xref: post.servtech.com comp.os.vms:190118 We have just retired our old VAXs and are looking for a nice home for them. We have two systems: System 1is a Micro Vax 4 with 128M ram, expansion bus, Q-Bus, CMD and UC08 SCSI Controllers, Emulex communication multiplexor boards and CP34 Panels, Drive bay and 19' Rack and DR11-C interface. System 2 is a Micro Vax 3 with 64M ram, exapnsion bus, Q-Bus, Emulex UCO8 SCSI Controllers, Emulex communication muliplexor board and CP34 Panels. Also available ( serious ) a couple of working Deckwriter's If intersted, e-mail me for more information: mslaughter@basstickets.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Slaughter IS Manager BASS Tickets 1855 Gateway Blvd. Suite 630 Concord, CA 94520 Anyway, contact Mr. Slaughter directly! -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 20 21:33:35 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Taking care of magazines References: <199808201753.KAA00892@squeep.com> Message-ID: <35DCDC7F.CF957A59@cnct.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > What I'd like to be able to do is stop the acid breakdown, and remove > the water and mildew stains. I feel a bit silly asking this, because > before I lost all my free time, one of my favorite hobbies was > bookbinding and restoration -- it's just that I'd never dealt with > water and mildew stains on any of the books I've done :) Go to a comic book shop, they'll have both protective covers and sheets of stuff to counter the acid in the paper. It's an industry that's been taking seriously the concept of disintegrating paper longer than computers have been popular -- definitely longer than the Library of Congress has been paying attention to the problem, if it is yet. > > Any good tips or ideas? > > (As soon as I get a scanner, I'm going wild with these BYTE issues. > The back cover of one of the 1975 issues has a GREAT Altair ad featuring > Napoleon, holding an Altair. BTW, on a Napoleonically related note, > anyone remember the great "I adore my 64" C64 TV ads with Napoleon?) Do remember that the copyrights are owned by McGraw-Hill, you can get away with the ads, but you'd best hold off on "content". -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 20 21:41:26 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Punch cards (again) References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C550@NT486> Message-ID: <35DCDE56.A798664A@cnct.com> Jack Peacock wrote: > > >She said that they were invented by Hollerith > at the end of the last century for use with the census. Was I drunk or > did > we just go through a whole discussion about the cards being invented for > the Jacquard loom? > > Different types of punched cards. Hollerith invented the modern > computer punch card. The Jacquard loom used punched cards in a linked > belt type arrangement, similar to a player piano, to control the shuttle > of his loom. Jacquard had more in common with pianos than computers. > Jack Peacock True. It was Babbage who adapted them to programming -- Hollerith only used them for counting. Babbage and Hollerith each got the idea from Jacquard. And admitted it. (As far as I know, Hollerith was never aware of Babbage). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From poesie at geocities.com Thu Aug 20 21:46:01 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <35DCDE95.152E@geocities.com> well, I found out none of the NEC versa laptops are for sale; apparently some VP is holding onto them for some reason. We have maybe 30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... maybe 50? or more DuoDocks, both the Duo 230 or 280, and the Dock. don't know the possibility status of selling these. several sony video monitors that are touch screens, accept various inputs, came with weird computerized videodisc systems. we used to sell these things as scrap, and paid! them to take them, and then got rebates for 10cents a pound, or sometimes we ended up owing them. He is actively looking for vendors to buy, so we could probably make an offer for pallet(s) since I'm the only one doing any work with them. I will also do the legwork in my spare time, for this. However, someone else should be the point man, so to speak... I can't really get involved. I've tried, believe me. I'll try to do some more inventory type stuff... But there's alot. Also a whole room full of an IBM 3480? mainframeish type of thing, with disk boxes etc. looks like a room full of washing machines... -Eric From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 20 21:42:59 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Update on Mac Run Message-ID: well, if people are putting in requests for various mac models that are getting ready to be scrapped, i wouldnt mind having an se/30 or colour classic. a IIfx wouldnt be bad except for the fact that it can only use special simms. From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 21 21:10:28 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <199808210315.XAA26214@gate.usaor.net> How much for the monitors? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Poesie > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: more info on systems.... > Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 10:46 PM > > well, I found out none of the NEC versa laptops are for sale; > apparently some VP is holding onto them for some reason. We have maybe > 30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, > token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers > with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... > maybe 50? or more DuoDocks, both the Duo 230 or 280, and the Dock. don't > know the possibility status of selling these. several sony video > monitors that are touch screens, accept various inputs, came with weird > computerized videodisc systems. > From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 20 23:09:42 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: <35DCD469.AD39D993@storm.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote: > > > Joe wrote: > > > At 02:07 AM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > > > > > >> sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! > > >> > > >Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's > > >the Hemi in? > > > > A 1970 Superbird what else! Big engine, big car, NO computers! > > > > I also have a '70 Dodge Challenger RT convertible with a 440 6 pak. :-) > > These are the remains of my car collecting days. > > > > The answer is cubic horsepower. What was the question??? :-}) > Stan, back in my racing days - in the 60's - we used to say that the only thing that could beat cubic inches was cubic money! - don From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 20 23:25:34 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Taking care of magazines In-Reply-To: <35DCDC7F.CF957A59@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 20, 98 10:33:35 pm Message-ID: <199808210425.VAA02263@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980820/f8cbe4e1/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Fri Aug 21 01:28:17 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: <199808210119.SAA26519@goodnet.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980820195242.006b800c@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Aug 20, 98 07:52:42 pm Message-ID: Shawn wrote: > >Like one local scapper, who has finally "wised up" and is building a >large warehouse to retail his stuff instead of leaving it out in the >dust and rain to await the mexicans with hammers. > >For anybody in Phoenix, it's at 7th Ave. and Magnolia. He sells stuff >cheap so far if you can rescue it in time. We'll see if it stays that way. > What's the name of the place? I'm going to be in Phoenix next month - If I have time I'd like to go there and poke around. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 21 00:32:48 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: <7941337@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 20 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > --- Doug Spence wrote: > Do you have a floppy drive for yours? Or are you stuck using cassette > like me? > ----- > > Neither, you lucky dog! I'm lucky because I use cassette with the thing?? :) The cassette connector seems to be identical to the one on the TRS-80. I did, however, hook it directly to my Apple ][+, with a tape recorder between them acting as an amplifier. This allowed me to load software from disk, then go into the monitor and do a cassette save on the ][+ with a simultaneous cassette load on the L3K. This let me test some software on the L3K. > I have these cartridge adapter thingies that supposedly allow one or > two Disk ][ drives to be used with it, but I don't think I ever managed > to get it to read a disk (this is likely due to my ignorance, though > none of this stuff was known-good when I got it). I actually have a disk drive from Video Techology Ltd. that I've never tried out. I think it's a Disk ][ compatible. The only ads I've seen for the Laser 3000 say that the disk drive is 144K, which isn't quite the same as the Apple. It's probably just some kind of advertising-speak. :) > I may have a spare disk adapter -- you interested? YES! YES! YES! Abso-Fragging-Lutely, Dammit! Where's the dotted line, oh evil one? ;) > There's also another cartridge-like adapter for a printer, and one more > with another version of BASIC. Another BASIC! That would be good, as I have a feeling they didn't finish the one that's in ROM. ;) A printer adapter is also cool. A serial adapter would be even cooler. The Z80 cart would be icing on the cake. > I can check in my parts bin for spares if you want. You have a parts bin with Laser 3000 stuff in it? Argh! Are you from Down Under? > ----- > I hope you cannibalized one L3K to fix the other, and not to fix something > more mundane. > --- end of quote --- > > Yes, it donated some of its vital organs to save the life of the other > one. ;) I'm not too impressed with the manufacturing quality of the L3K, but it's a really interesting contraption. Mine had a loose wire in the power supply (one of the ones coming directly from the plug) which I jolted myself with when I was trying to figure out why it died one day. (I actually jolted myself touching the power supply casing.) It also had a loose capacitor stuck to the speaker magnet, and I know it survived in that location all the way from the factory because it's the same kind as they've used on the motherboard. VTL also had a liking for hot glue. If you're adding components to the board and you don't feel like spending time insulating things, just slather them with the glue gun. :) Ah, the wonders of cheap labour! ;) > -- MB Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 21 00:37:05 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I thought the Laser 3000 was a PC clone? What hints do you take from it > that lead you to believe it is still an Apple based clone? The little ] prompt when you start it up. The AppleSoft-almost-compatible BASIC in ROM. The fact that CALL -151 drops me into the monitor (sadly missing the disassembler). The fact that it was able to run several of my favourite Apple ][ games. I think these 'hints' speak fairly clearly. :) Visit my website to learn almost everything I know about the Laser 3000, and some things I don't know. > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 21 00:49:01 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Seagate drive search over in record time. Message-ID: <35DD0A4C.B29EDE1@bbtel.com> Thanks to everyone that responded. I have more than I needed as I found them for $10 each at Computer Recyclers and a few others from private parties. I no longer need any more, unless of course you just have to give them away ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 21 00:56:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > It's not that hard to open up a Mac, given that extra-long Torx driver. > > > > I've got a straight-blade screwdriver that fits. > > :-). The right tool is better though. Yes, but I don't feel like hunting down (and paying for) a tool that's really only good for this one job. I've only got the one Mac, and I don't plan on opening it too frequently. Now, if I got a whole truck-load of old Macs and was threatened with death if I didn't open them all up, I'd certainly want the proper tool. :) [re: logic probes] > A cheap one is easily good enough for most classics. I used to use a > cheap Tandy/Radio Shack one a lot - although it was only a 10MHz unit, it > was enough for just about every computer I repaired. I've since bought an > HP one, but that's because I also do _design_, not because I need it for > classic computer work. I just bought a 'cheap' Radio Shack logic probe today, also 10MHz. Unfortunately, tonight I was powering it with a cheap Radio Shack power adapter, and it was screetching and had the PULSE light on no matter where I made contact. So probably I need a power supply with better filtering. I know that when I used to use this very same power supply with my Walkman, there was a very audible (and annoying) hum. Anyway, I don't know what the heck I'm doing with this thing yet. But I've only used it for a few minutes. I didn't find the problem with the Mac, but that'll come in time. I also did a very dumb thing today in that I bought the wrong connectors for the Mac->Amiga mouse cable I wanted to build. I bought one of each sex, which any lame-brained dimwit would recognize as wrong as the two machines in question use ports of the opposite sex. If I had accidentally bought two female plugs, at least I could've tested the Mac mouse on the Amiga. My excuse is that I haven't managed to get more than 4 hours sleep on any night so far this week. :) At least I'll be building up a 'spare parts bin' like the rest of you. :) Thanks for the advice and info, Tony! > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 21 01:04:51 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > The only ads I've seen for the Laser 3000 say that the disk drive is 144K, > which isn't quite the same as the Apple. It's probably just some kind > of advertising-speak. :) Actually, Apple ][ disks were normally formatted for 143,360 bytes (140K). 144K is awfully close. I'm still wondering if this was advertised as, or is supposed to be, an Apple ][ like machine. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 21 03:41:31 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <9807219037.AA903714168@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Eric wrote: > However, someone else should be the point man, so to speak... I can't > really get involved. I've tried, believe me. I'll try to do some more > inventory type stuff... But there's alot. Also a whole room full of an > IBM 3480? mainframeish type of thing, with disk boxes etc. looks like > a room full of washing machines... Sounds like a complete IBM 4381 installation (the 4381 was known as the Chest Freezer when I was there in '86) If I (a) had space and (b) was on the same side of the Atlantic, I'd grab it. Definitely not to be missed. Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 21 03:43:41 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. Message-ID: <9807219037.AA903714348@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Kevan Heydon wrote: > On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Alex Knight wrote: >> >> So far, I haven't either. The Anita and Friden EC-130 electronic >> calculators both came out in 1963, they're generally regarded as >> the first two electronic desktop calculators but neither are > > I reckon that the original Anita was 1962. The reason I say this is > because my mother used to be a comptometer operator for the national What date was the Casio AL 1000, anyone? Tony? Philip. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Aug 21 03:10:22 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 20, 98 11:04:51 pm Message-ID: <199808210810.BAA10907@saul7.u.washington.edu> > Actually, Apple ][ disks were normally formatted for 143,360 bytes (140K). > 144K is awfully close. I'm still wondering if this was advertised as, or > is supposed to be, an Apple ][ like machine. My guess is that you and the advertisers are using two different definitions of "K". Note: 143,360 / 1024 = exactly 140K 143,360 / 1000 = 143.36K -- why not round it up to 144K while we're at it? This is one of the oldest tricks in the book. -- Derek From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 21 03:20:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:07 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <9807219037.AA903714348@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > >> So far, I haven't either. The Anita and Friden EC-130 electronic > >> calculators both came out in 1963, they're generally regarded as > >> the first two electronic desktop calculators but neither are > > > > I reckon that the original Anita was 1962. The reason I say this is > > because my mother used to be a comptometer operator for the national > > What date was the Casio AL 1000, anyone? Tony? According to the collective mind of the web, 1967. -- Doug From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 21 07:55:45 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. Message-ID: <9807219037.AA903729468@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>Could someone please enlighten me... What, pray, is FLEX? > > For years, it was *THE* disk operating system if you had a 6800/6802 > based system. Originally written in the late 70's, it powered the > majority of the SS-50 computers until the 6809 came out. Then came > FLEX/09, StarDOS, UniFLEX, OS/9. . . . Thanks. I wonder why I'd never heard of it. > It was a bit limited, but it was small enough to fit within the 6800's 64K > address space, with *plenty* of room to spare! The 4052 has a 128K address space - separate 64k spaces for code and data. That said, there are ways of running code in the data space and accessing data in the code space. > Well, yeah, but still faster then 1Mc (or 800kc if you didn't modify > the cpu board). Yes, much. >>I must do some more research into the relationship between 4052 and 6800 >>instruction sets. > > Yes. How the implemented the microcode would be of particular interest. The service manuals tell you a lot about how the microcode is executed, but little about what's in there. Similarly there is a list of instruction mnemonics and addressing modes against opcodes, and even an explanation of how the addressing modes work, but nothing to tell you what the instructions do, let alone anything in the way of ROM listings. One day I might get around to decompiling the microcode... Philip. From william at ans.net Fri Aug 21 08:23:10 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... In-Reply-To: <9807219037.AA903714168@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > Sounds like a complete IBM 4381 installation (the 4381 was known as the > Chest Freezer when I was there in '86) > > If I (a) had space and (b) was on the same side of the Atlantic, I'd > grab it. Definitely not to be missed. OK, I missed some of this thread somewhere. Is there a 4381 system up for grabs? William Donzelli william@ans.net From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 21 08:41:34 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <199808211347.JAA19871@charity.harvard.net> Okay, I finally figgered I could use two Duo 280s with docks. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Poesie [mailto:poesie@geocities.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 10:46 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: more info on systems.... > > > well, I found out none of the NEC versa laptops are for sale; > apparently some VP is holding onto them for some reason. We have maybe > 30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, > token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers > with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... > maybe 50? or more DuoDocks, both the Duo 230 or 280, and the > Dock. don't > know the possibility status of selling these. several sony video > monitors that are touch screens, accept various inputs, came > with weird > computerized videodisc systems. > > we used to sell these things as scrap, and paid! them > to take them, and > then got rebates for 10cents a pound, or sometimes we ended up owing > them. He is actively looking for vendors to buy, so we could probably > make an offer for pallet(s) since I'm the only one doing any work with > them. I will also do the legwork in my spare time, for this. > > However, someone else should be the point man, so to > speak... I can't > really get involved. I've tried, believe me. I'll try to do some more > inventory type stuff... But there's alot. Also a whole room > full of an > IBM 3480? mainframeish type of thing, with disk boxes etc. > looks like a > room full of washing machines... > > -Eric > From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Aug 21 09:49:17 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: <199808210702.AAA07195@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:45:52 -0400 (EDT) >From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter >> >> < Was DEC's EDT text editor ever `ported to any non-DEC platforms, such a >> < PCs or unixes? It is still my favorite text and program editor, and I' >> < love to have on on some of my "everyday" machines. >> > >I've got some hardcopy of an EDT clone for the Rainbow called >Small-EDT which isn't too bad, however -- the sources have been >hacked by me in an aborted attempt to squeeze them on to a DEC VT180. > Also try in ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/msdos/latrobe/mn/medt03.zip description is MEDT03.ZIP 93 Mini EDT screen mode editor written in C (with sources) haven't used it, so I can't comment other than it's there. - Mark From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com Fri Aug 21 11:26:15 1998 From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: IBM System 32 stuff... Message-ID: Hey folks, There are some system 32 terminals, keyboards, and printers available at a marina out here. They haven't been used as boat anchors, yet. I'll be going back to the marina to pickup a boat tomorrow, so if you're interested let me know. -Joel From william at ans.net Fri Aug 21 11:37:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: IBM System 32 stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > There are some system 32 terminals, keyboards, and printers available at > a marina out here. They haven't been used as boat anchors, yet. I'll > be going > back to the marina to pickup a boat tomorrow, so if you're interested > let me know. Where is "here"? William Donzelli william@ans.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 20 22:20:59 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.2.32.19980819180426.007b8d40@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980820222059.300f7310@intellistar.net> At 05:41 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> Another "crossover" machine that I have a little info >> (mainly pictures) of is the HP 9830, called a calculator >> but in fact a computer with BASIC. > >The 9830 doesn't get discussed much, but it's one of my favorites. >There's a lot of noise on this list about the Altair, a "PC" from 1975 >that was just a big box with lights and toggles. In 1972, the HP 9830 was >an elegant light-weight Light-weight!!!!!!!!!! I have both an Altair and a 9830 and the 9830 is at least three times as heavy as the Altair! It's also probably 5 times stronger. I have used my 9830 as a step stool (after it died of other causes). I wouldn't even think of doing that with the Altair. desktop computer with full alphanumeric keyboard, >built-in secondary storage, built-in display, One line LED. Whoppee! built-in BASIC, Yes, and ONLY BASIC! The Altair was a general purpose machine. and it just >plain works. There was nothing else remotely like it at the time, and it >was even reasonably priced (around $5000, I think). That's what, 12 times the price of the Altair? The two machines aren't comparable. They're completely different. Have you ever tried to generate music or word process on a 9830? You can't do it. You could on an Altair. The 9830 is a sophisticated programmable calcualtor. The Altair is a striped down general purpose computer. Joe > >-- Doug > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 20 22:52:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff In-Reply-To: References: <199808200212.TAA17235@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980820225245.300f855c@intellistar.net> At 12:38 AM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I found a book I would recommend if anyone finds a copy, although I am still >> getting used to it. It is "Computer Structures: Readings and Examples" by >> Bell and Newell. It uses strange notation (for me) and even the table of >> contents is "virtual". > >That wouldn't be Gordon Bell, would it? The book sounds familiar, but >it's not on my shelf. > >> Anyway, it includes descriptions of 2 desktop calculators, both about 1968: >> an Olivetti 101 (USD$3500) and a HP 9100A. The HP uses core memory, its >> program ROM uses 16 layer PC board technology. The HP article is a reprint >> from the HP Journal. Does anyone have either of these? > >Somebody with a better sense of calc history should chime in here, but I >think Monroe, Olivetti, HP, and Wang all had programmables in the 60s. > >I have an HP9100A manual and the first HP _Keyboard_ that describes it. I >think I recall at least four people on the list having a 9100. It was not >the first programmable, but it was the first HP, and it is pretty cool >with its built-in CRT and expansion bus. > I have a HP 9100 and the original HP Journal. You can order reprints (color, I think) of the HP Journals through HP's website. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 20 23:14:40 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mathatron, 9100, 9830, etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980820123629.007fd850@mindspring.com> References: <199808200212.TAA17235@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980820231440.300f47ac@intellistar.net> At 12:36 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote: >In the 60s, there were business-type programmable >machines from Monroe (EPIC 3000), Olivetti (Programma 101), >Smith Corona Marchant (Cogito 516 PR), and Canon (Canola 164P). >There is also the Burroughs C3660 business programmable, but >I don't know if it's a 60s machine or not, I'm not sure when the Burroughs machine first came out but I worked on HUNDREDS of them when I worked for Burroughs in the mid '70s. They used LSICs and SSICs, core memory, PanaPlex display and had a mag card reader. The printer looked the same as that used in the HP 46 and HP 81. and Sony made >a programmable Sobax but I'm not sure when. All of these >machines were very large and were probably either transistorized >or used early Small-Scale integrated circuits. > >> >>I have an HP9100A manual and the first HP _Keyboard_ that describes it. I >>think I recall at least four people on the list having a 9100. It was not >>the first programmable, but it was the first HP, and it is pretty cool >>with its built-in CRT and expansion bus. > >Apparently there were also aftermarket accessories made for the 9100 >by other companies. I recall seeing something on the net from >one company that took a 9100 and modified it to become an instrument >controller. That really wasn't an accessory, it was a custom modified 9100. I've never heard of ANY third party accessories for the 9100. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 20 23:31:36 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: <35DCD469.AD39D993@storm.ca> References: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19980817101613.2d5fdc5c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980820233136.300f49e2@intellistar.net> At 09:59 PM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >Joe wrote: > >> At 02:07 AM 8/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: >> > >> >> sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! >> >> >> >Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's >> >the Hemi in? >> >> A 1970 Superbird what else! Big engine, big car, NO computers! >> >> I also have a '70 Dodge Challenger RT convertible with a 440 6 pak. :-) >> These are the remains of my car collecting days. >> > >The answer is cubic horsepower. What was the question??? :-}) Just a discussion about the lack of computers in the old cars. I guess stuffing in a bigger engine will over come just about any problem. (At least it did for Detroit for a lotta years!) Joe From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com Fri Aug 21 11:38:52 1998 From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: IBM System 32 stuff... Message-ID: Oh yeah... my profuse apologies... I'm in Maryland, the marina is in Virginia near DC. -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net] Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:38 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: IBM System 32 stuff... > There are some system 32 terminals, keyboards, and printers available at > a marina out here. They haven't been used as boat anchors, yet. I'll > be going > back to the marina to pickup a boat tomorrow, so if you're interested > let me know. Where is "here"? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Aug 21 11:51:12 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: IBM System 32 stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Oh yeah... my profuse apologies... I'm in Maryland, > the marina is in Virginia near DC. Cool. Any chance you could get some of the type numbers from the things (they may follow the x32x format, like 5230 for the CPU)? William Donzelli william@ans.net From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com Fri Aug 21 12:37:36 1998 From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: IBM System 32 stuff... Message-ID: They're in a warehouse and the way they're shelved I couldn't see any model #s. The guy told me they were hooked up to a 32, and they look like 32/34 gear. I could probably get some part#s tomorrow, but I think they'd be happier if someone just took the whole mess. -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net] Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 12:51 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: IBM System 32 stuff... > Oh yeah... my profuse apologies... I'm in Maryland, > the marina is in Virginia near DC. Cool. Any chance you could get some of the type numbers from the things (they may follow the x32x format, like 5230 for the CPU)? William Donzelli william@ans.net From ecloud at goodnet.com Fri Aug 21 13:40:29 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Macs, IBM systems, roms, etc etc... In-Reply-To: from "Rax" at Aug 20, 98 10:28:17 pm Message-ID: <199808211840.LAA27801@goodnet.com> > >Like one local scapper, who has finally "wised up" and is building a > >large warehouse to retail his stuff instead of leaving it out in the > >dust and rain to await the mexicans with hammers. > > > >For anybody in Phoenix, it's at 7th Ave. and Magnolia. He sells stuff > >cheap so far if you can rescue it in time. We'll see if it stays that way. > > > > What's the name of the place? I'm going to be in Phoenix next month - If I > have time I'd like to go there and poke around. Surplus Electronics Exchange (SEX for short :-) -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * Gravis Ultrasound * robotics * VRML * Gravis Ultrasound * Java * OO * From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 21 13:37:55 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mathatron & other stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980820222059.300f7310@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > >The 9830 doesn't get discussed much, but it's one of my favorites. > >There's a lot of noise on this list about the Altair, a "PC" from 1975 > >that was just a big box with lights and toggles. In 1972, the HP 9830 was > >an elegant light-weight > > Light-weight!!!!!!!!!! I have both an Altair and a 9830 and the 9830 is > at least three times as heavy as the Altair! It's also probably 5 times > stronger. I have used my 9830 as a step stool (after it died of other > causes). I wouldn't even think of doing that with the Altair. You're right, I was thinking of the 9825. The 9830 seems to be comparable in weight to my IMSAI, though. It was also designed to be load bearing, with stackable disk drives and printer, etc. > desktop computer with full alphanumeric keyboard, > >built-in secondary storage, built-in display, > > One line LED. Whoppee! Compared to blinkenlights? I'm able to do real work with a 32 column alphanumeric display. > built-in BASIC, > > Yes, and ONLY BASIC! The Altair was a general purpose machine. Say what? The 9830 could be expanded with ROM modules, you could load software from disk and tape, you could connect a terminal to an optional serial port. How general purpose can you get? > and it just > >plain works. There was nothing else remotely like it at the time, and it > >was even reasonably priced (around $5000, I think). > > That's what, 12 times the price of the Altair? The two machines aren't How much was an Altair with lots of RAM, terminal, and tape drive? That's right, about the same. > comparable. They're completely different. Have you ever tried to generate > music or word process on a 9830? You can't do it. You could on an > Altair. The 9830 is a sophisticated programmable calcualtor. The Altair is > a striped down general purpose computer. You're underestimating the 9830. Yes, I know of a word processor for the 9830. Remember, you could connect a terminal to it as well as a printer. My 9830 came with a nice little program to generate custom xmas cards, even. If somebody made a music card for it, it would be just as easy to generate music as with the Altair (assuming you also hooked up a terminal and added a bunch of S-100 cards to the Altair without smoking its powersupply). -- Doug From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 21 14:33:25 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A chap that has gotten some Osborne 1 disks from me has a Lisa II. Apparently, he has some bootable application software for it, so he is able to bring it up. He mentioned that he is looking for a copy of the 'seven disk set' that was bundled with it. Can anyone help me help him? He is willing to pay reasonable costs. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 21 14:36:23 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > It's not that hard to open up a Mac, given that extra-long Torx driver. > > > > > > I've got a straight-blade screwdriver that fits. > > > > :-). The right tool is better though. > > Yes, but I don't feel like hunting down (and paying for) a tool that's > really only good for this one job. I've only got the one Mac, and I don't > plan on opening it too frequently. That is really not quite true, as it is the most commonly used size in computers. Simply longer than you need for other applications. Think of it as a Torx driver for those that don't want to get too close to their work 8-> - don > Now, if I got a whole truck-load of old Macs and was threatened with death > if I didn't open them all up, I'd certainly want the proper tool. :) > > [re: logic probes] > > > A cheap one is easily good enough for most classics. I used to use a > > cheap Tandy/Radio Shack one a lot - although it was only a 10MHz unit, it > > was enough for just about every computer I repaired. I've since bought an > > HP one, but that's because I also do _design_, not because I need it for > > classic computer work. > > I just bought a 'cheap' Radio Shack logic probe today, also 10MHz. > Unfortunately, tonight I was powering it with a cheap Radio Shack power > adapter, and it was screetching and had the PULSE light on no matter where > I made contact. So probably I need a power supply with better filtering. > > I know that when I used to use this very same power supply with my > Walkman, there was a very audible (and annoying) hum. > > Anyway, I don't know what the heck I'm doing with this thing yet. But > I've only used it for a few minutes. I didn't find the problem with the > Mac, but that'll come in time. > > I also did a very dumb thing today in that I bought the wrong connectors > for the Mac->Amiga mouse cable I wanted to build. I bought one of each > sex, which any lame-brained dimwit would recognize as wrong as the two > machines in question use ports of the opposite sex. > > If I had accidentally bought two female plugs, at least I could've tested > the Mac mouse on the Amiga. > > My excuse is that I haven't managed to get more than 4 hours sleep on any > night so far this week. :) > > At least I'll be building up a 'spare parts bin' like the rest of you. :) > > > > Thanks for the advice and info, Tony! > > > -tony > > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Aug 21 14:47:22 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980821130442.5f47b34a@ricochet.net> At 09:46 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, >token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers >with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... I'd like to offer, on behalf of Garden Village Elementary School, $750 for the 30 PPC 7100's as one lot. In addition, I'll offer an addition $150 for the Quadra's. This is a serious offer. I can forward the funds via check, money order, cash, or I can just add it to my next mortgage payment. (Just kidding!) Feel free to call me at 1-415-469-7924 or page me at either 1-415-201-0273 or <4152010273@alphapage.airtouch.com> (just the message body gets sent; about the first 256 chars.) >maybe 50? or more DuoDocks, both the Duo 230 or 280, and the Dock. don't >know the possibility status of selling these. several sony video If you want to sell these, I would be interested in quite a few as well. (Probably one for each teacher.) >-Eric Thanks, Eric for all your effort in this! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From rax at warbaby.com Fri Aug 21 16:21:44 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Emulators Message-ID: All the emu stuff you'll ever need: http://www.classicgaming.com/emunews/computer.htm R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 21 15:46:11 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software Message-ID: <7980107@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Don Maslin wrote: A chap that has gotten some Osborne 1 disks from me has a Lisa II. Apparently, he has some bootable application software for it, so he is able to bring it up. He mentioned that he is looking for a copy of the 'seven disk set' that was bundled with it. Can anyone help me help him? He is willing to pay reasonable costs. - don --- end of quote --- I posted a message with exactly that information last night. If you didn't get it, email me, and I will re-send it to you. -- MB From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 21 17:49:10 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... In-Reply-To: <35DCDE95.152E@geocities.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980821174910.006aa500@pop3.concentric.net> Eric if can send me the name and phone number I will call him Monday morning to setup a visit to see whats for sale and make a offer for it. Or you tell me how you want it done so that you do not get in any trouble on your job. e-mail me offline at jrkeys@concentric.net And Thanks for all your help so far on this. John At 09:46 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >well, I found out none of the NEC versa laptops are for sale; >apparently some VP is holding onto them for some reason. We have maybe >30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, >token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers >with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... >maybe 50? or more DuoDocks, both the Duo 230 or 280, and the Dock. don't >know the possibility status of selling these. several sony video >monitors that are touch screens, accept various inputs, came with weird >computerized videodisc systems. > > we used to sell these things as scrap, and paid! them to take them, and >then got rebates for 10cents a pound, or sometimes we ended up owing >them. He is actively looking for vendors to buy, so we could probably >make an offer for pallet(s) since I'm the only one doing any work with >them. I will also do the legwork in my spare time, for this. > > However, someone else should be the point man, so to speak... I can't >really get involved. I've tried, believe me. I'll try to do some more >inventory type stuff... But there's alot. Also a whole room full of an >IBM 3480? mainframeish type of thing, with disk boxes etc. looks like a >room full of washing machines... > >-Eric > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 17:06:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Minor Tektronix success story. In-Reply-To: <9807219037.AA903729468@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Aug 21, 98 12:55:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 499 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980821/b82ff343/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 16:56:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 21, 98 01:56:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980821/c795607a/attachment.ksh From cdrmool at interlog.com Fri Aug 21 19:17:55 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: <7980107@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: O.K. this is where I admit my complete incompetance around such issues. I have the "seven disk set" you mention but I've not yet got my Lisa2 running. Is there a way to do a copy of such disks, for example, on a ms-dos based system? or unix? I.e., has someone come up with a means of copying disks "raw"? regardless of OS?. In other words, how do I copy these disks without my Lisa 2 up and running? Phew, colan On 21 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > --- Don Maslin wrote: > > A chap that has gotten some Osborne 1 disks from me has a Lisa II. > Apparently, he has some bootable application software for it, so he is > able to bring it up. > > He mentioned that he is looking for a copy of the 'seven disk set' that > was bundled with it. Can anyone help me help him? He is willing to pay > reasonable costs. > > - don > > --- end of quote --- > > I posted a message with exactly that information last night. If you didn't get it, email me, and I will re-send it to you. > > -- MB > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Aug 21 19:11:34 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980821131021.540fb1b8@ricochet.net> At 08:41 PM 8/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >--- Tony Duell wrote: >Do you have a working battery in the machine? IIRC, the PSU can't supply >enough current on it's own to get the machine and hard disk started up. >When the hard disk tries to spin up, the PSU shuts down, etc. Giving you >exactly what you're seeing That is true. Took me a while to figure that out. >Really? I'm charging a pair of batteries overnight. Tomorrow I'll see if >anything works with a charged battery. I thought that with the 9-volt >backup and the power adapter, that was enough juice -- Uncle Roger, is >that what you were saying earlier? Yes, that seems to work, provided you take the cover for the main battery off. Also, the 9v has to be pretty new. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 21 19:30:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 21, 98 08:17:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980822/f60a7945/attachment.ksh From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 22 20:30:07 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software Message-ID: <199808220134.VAA26191@gate.usaor.net> > The problem is that these requires (obviously) that the disk controller > can read the data off the disk, at least at the bit/byte level. And Apple > have always used GCR (Group Code Recording) which is incompatible with > the FM (single density) or MFM (double density) recording systems used by > most other manufacturers. I don't know if the Lisa uses GCR encoding, but > since the Apple ][ and Macs do, it's a reasonable bet that the Lisa does > likewise. > > So, alas, the PC's disk controller can't read bytes off Lisa disks. So > there's no way to make a copy using a PC. Aren't there programs that allow PC's to read Apple disks? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 21 20:38:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: looking for...SYQUEST 270 Message-ID: <199808220138.AA08615@world.std.com> Can anyone help me I was just given a parallel port syquest 270 external cartridge disk. I don't have the install disk... well I do but it's hopelessly munged. I need that so I can do transfer media to PC from... More importantly I want to try and hang it on one of the CP/M systems that happens (by my design) to have a EPP compatable port. So, I need the gory details of how to talk to such a critter so I can write a CP/M bios. And you thought it's all non classic! Graft new technology to old and keep it crankin. Allison From poesie at geocities.com Fri Aug 21 20:45:20 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun Message-ID: <35DE22B0.2192@geocities.com> I also found several 5 1/4 disks that are "TOPS for the PC" from Sun Microsystems, circa 87. anyone have some info on this? -Eric From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Fri Aug 21 20:48:43 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun References: <35DE22B0.2192@geocities.com> Message-ID: <35DE237B.981F3E88@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Poesie wrote: > > I also found several 5 1/4 disks that are "TOPS for the PC" from Sun > Microsystems, circa 87. anyone have some info on this? > > -Eric Wow. TOPS was a network operating system that lets Macs and PCs talk to each other (if you had a localtalk card for the PC that is). Tony From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 21 21:06:56 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software Message-ID: <7984760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Tony Duell wrote: [Re: copying Lisa disks w/o a working Lisa] I think the only way is to find some other Lisa 'up and running'. --- end of quote --- There is another way, I think, using Mac utilities. Mr. Craig sent me several Mac-formatted floppies containing CompactPro archives of disk images of the LOS disks. (Whew! Did you follow that?) He also sent along the older version of Apple's Disk Copy (4.2, I think) which will happily make disks from images it cannot mount. (It also knows to make an 800k floppy be 400k if that's what the original image calls for.) Obviously, somewhere along the line, he was able to make the images from the original Lisa diskettes, but I don't know the details of this -- Disk Copy must be able to make images from weird disks (I know it can do ProDos ones.) Incidentally, there is a way to de-serialize LOS diskettes using FEdit -- I don't know where your set of disks came from, or whether they've been used. (The LOS install disks have to be un-write-protected because the first time you install the software, the installer reads the Lisa's unique hardware serial number and writes it to the disk for piracy prevention. If you ever try to install the software on another machine, it won't let you.) What's the matter with your Lisa? -- MB From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 21 21:13:49 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <7984852@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Uncle Roger wrote: At 08:41 PM 8/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >--- Tony Duell wrote: >Do you have a working battery in the machine? IIRC, the PSU can't supply >enough current on it's own to get the machine and hard disk started up. >When the hard disk tries to spin up, the PSU shuts down, etc. Giving you >exactly what you're seeing That is true. Took me a while to figure that out. >Really? I'm charging a pair of batteries overnight. Tomorrow I'll see if >anything works with a charged battery. I thought that with the 9-volt >backup and the power adapter, that was enough juice -- Uncle Roger, is >that what you were saying earlier? Yes, that seems to work, provided you take the cover for the main battery off. Also, the 9v has to be pretty new. --- end of quote --- Yeah, I pulled the main battery cover and it was definitely drawing on the backup 9V, but maybe it's too low. That dual-battery thing scared the bejesus out of me the first time I tinkered with a Portable -- I'm staring at the power adapter, unplugged, with the main battery in my hand, and the bloody machine's still humming and chiming, seemingly getting power from _nowhere_. I thought there was a ghost. ;) Thanks to everyone for the advice. -- MB From ecloud at goodnet.com Fri Aug 21 21:38:42 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun In-Reply-To: <35DE237B.981F3E88@joyce.eng.yale.edu> from "Tony Dellett" at Aug 21, 98 09:48:43 pm Message-ID: <199808220238.TAA04020@goodnet.com> > Poesie wrote: > > > > I also found several 5 1/4 disks that are "TOPS for the PC" from Sun > > Microsystems, circa 87. anyone have some info on this? > > > > -Eric > > Wow. TOPS was a network operating system that lets Macs and PCs talk to > each other (if you had a localtalk card for the PC that is). I think I have one (or more?) of these cards around somewhere, in case anybody needs one. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * Gravis Ultrasound * quantize the universe * eschew obfuscation * 808 State * From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Aug 21 22:02:58 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: References: <199808200300.AA27089@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808220302.NAA19469@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 06:50 PM 20-08-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >_The_ one to find is called the 'PDP11 Bus Handbook'. It's one of the little >DEC paperbacks, and it includes a full description of the Unibus and >Q-bus. It's one of the DEC books I use a lot. No idea where to get one >now, but certainly keep looking. Well a quick look through the engineering archives at work didn't lead to anything describing Qbus in any more detail. I found a neat book on the DECmateIII, some PDP options catalogues from the late 70s and the complete DECsystem-10 fische that I'd forgotten we had. Nothing interesting there :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Aug 21 22:23:42 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: EDT editor - ports available? In-Reply-To: References: <199808210702.AAA07195@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199808220323.NAA19473@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 09:49 AM 21-08-98 -0500, Mark Tapley wrote: >Also try in > >ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/msdos/latrobe/mn/medt03.zip Wow, it's interesting how things come back to haunt you! The files in the latrobe hierarchy were originally on a VaxStation2000 in my former bosses office! The VAXstation (and boss) are long gone and although Paul (my former boss) has the largest collection of Rainbows of anyone I know, I'm not sure he's still maintaining an active interest in archiving software for them. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From XdizzycowX at aol.com Fri Aug 21 22:47:21 1998 From: XdizzycowX at aol.com (XdizzycowX@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: hey Message-ID: <21a91abc.35de3f4a@aol.com> can you send me one of the computers From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 21 22:56:21 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: hey In-Reply-To: <21a91abc.35de3f4a@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 XdizzycowX@aol.com wrote: > can you send me one of the computers Sure! Would you like manuals and software with that? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Aug 22 02:38:39 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980821182328.547702fc@ricochet.net> At 12:47 PM 8/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 09:46 PM 8/20/98 -0500, you wrote: >>30 7100/66or80 PPC macs; most with 16-32 mb ram, additional vid cards, >>token ring. IIci's, about 15? with 20mb ram each. 6 Quadra 950 servers >>with typically 2 300mb scsi drives and between 25-50 mb ram. ummm... Screwed up the reply-to of course. Sorry folks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 22 03:59:50 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > Did the Hyperion beat Compaq's intro? And if so, how come Compaq > > generally gets the credit? > > According to my arm-chair research, yes, Hyperion was first. Compaq gets > the glory because they're American, were much more PC-compatible, and > because they kicked the Hyperion's butt in terms of market success. That first reason stinks a little, but the others make sense. :) In a perfect world, credit would go where credit is due, but this is the real world. > It may be more complicated than that. The Hyperion was intro'd in 1982 by > Dynalogic, but Dynalogic was then acquired by Bytec. My manual was > published by Bytec in 1983 (rev 4). Ouch! Assuming that Dynalogic started with the Hyperion (and they may not have), they sure didn't last long! Do you happen to know where Dynalogic was headquartered? An old magazine I've got lists an address in Ottawa, but it lists addresses in Ontario for a lot of international companies, too. A friend of mine says that Dynalogic was based in Montreal. My second Hyperion unit has the "Ontario Hydro Electrical Approval" sticker on it, but I don't know if that means anything. (One of my PET 2001 units also bears this sticker.) The Bytec name sounds familiar for some reason, but I don't know why. It just makes me think "PET peripherals" for some reason? (Possibly a company with a similar name made PET stuff?) > > How fast is the modem? 300 baud? > > Damn, you made me get out of my arm chair. 300 baud. Damn, I was hoping for 1200 so I could call my favourite local BBS with it. They stopped accepting 300 baud calls a few years back, else I'd probably BBS with my VIC-20. ;) > > > display modes: 320x200, 640x200, 320x250, 640x250. > > > > Are the x250 modes normal for the PC? > > Nope. The Hyperion was special (thus its downfall). It is kind of a strange size, but not too far from 240 pixels, which I would assume would be a wee bit more normal. Did any of the software that came with the Hyperion actually use these graphics modes? > -- Doug Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From emu at ecubics.com Sat Aug 22 05:42:18 1998 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <19980822102747.AAA16368@emusp6> Hi Huw, ---------- > From: Huw Davies > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit > Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 9:02 PM > Well a quick look through the engineering archives at work didn't lead to > anything describing Qbus in any more detail. What information about the q-bus do you need ? cheers, emanuel From gene at ehrich.com Sat Aug 22 05:52:27 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: On-Line Garage Sale In-Reply-To: <199808220238.TAA04020@goodnet.com> References: <35DE237B.981F3E88@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Message-ID: <199808221046.DAA15229@mxu1.u.washington.edu> I have a lot of older PC, 8-bit and video game items for sale on my web site listed below. Also a couple of fun riddles. 75% don't get the right answer the first time on either of them. http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Gene Ehrich From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 22 07:38:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: looking for...SYQUEST 270 Message-ID: <199808221238.AA20110@world.std.com> Update: < Can anyone help me I was just given a parallel port syquest 270 < external cartridge disk. < < I don't have the install disk... well I do but it's hopelessly munged. < I need that so I can do transfer media to PC from... This part is solved, Syquest has a webpage (www.syquest.com). < More importantly I want to try and hang it on one of the CP/M systems < that happens (by my design) to have a EPP compatable port. So, I need < the gory details of how to talk to such a critter so I can write a CP/M < bios. I can pull the drive out of the parallel port case and use it with out the parallel port adaptor as it's IDE. I'd rather figure out how to talk to it using the parallel port adaptor as it seems to elude everyone. Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 22 07:23:42 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <00f501bdcdcb$61d13e40$7353fea9@mainoffice> I'm in the process on restroing one of these now, so I've had the same problems. I think that you can substitute a PB100/140 adapter for the stock MP adapter and have it work. The MP adapter is 7.5v at 1.5a. I think that the minimum for startup is north of 2a. I also just got a replacement CP3045 hard drive, and brand new batteries. Now I need to bring it up... Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Aug 22 10:53:51 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Apple /// Message-ID: <199808221553.IAA15984@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I just purchased an Apple /// and noted some interesting differences between the new Apple /// and one I've had for a while. Upon turning on the new ///, it displays some garbage, then beeps and shows "Diagnostic RAM" on the screen, along with a square pattern of '.'s. Not until I press "Reset", does the comptuer dead the floppy drive My old Apple /// (which, BTW, I beleive to have some bad RAM) immediately starts reading the the floppy drive with no "Diagnostic RAM" or need to hit "Reset". Also noted: The new Apple /// has darker keycaps The older Apple /// has a shielded "Color Video" Port On the tags on the bottom of the units: The older has a place to check off either 64k 96k or 128k (128k is checked) The new has a place to check off either 128k or 256k (128k is checked) I understand there was an upgrade to the Apple /// dubbed the "Apple ///+". I was under the impression the '+' was actually written on the case. Is this the case, or is it possible my newer unit is a ///+? If its not, what causes the discrepancy in startup procedure? Just minutely different versions of the Apple ///, or does the older units bad RAM have something to do with it? Thanks! Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 22 12:39:13 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) In-Reply-To: <00f501bdcdcb$61d13e40$7353fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > I'm in the process on restroing one of these now, so I've had the same > problems. > > I think that you can substitute a PB100/140 adapter for the stock MP > adapter and have it work. The MP adapter is 7.5v at 1.5a. I think that the > minimum for startup is north of 2a. > > I also just got a replacement CP3045 hard drive, and brand new > batteries. Now I need to bring it up... I am confused by this! The MacPortable FAQ says that the drive is a 40meg SCSI with a (typically Apple) proprietary interface of 34-pins. But the Pocket PCRef list the CP3045 as an AT/IDE drive. Is that a typo in the PCRef? - don > Rich Cini/WUGNET > - ClubWin/CW7 > - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > - Preserver of "classic" computers > <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 22 13:23:53 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > O.K. this is where I admit my complete incompetance around such issues. I > > have the "seven disk set" you mention but I've not yet got my Lisa2 > > running. Is there a way to do a copy of such disks, for example, on a > > ms-dos based system? or unix? I.e., has someone come up with a means of > > copying disks "raw"? regardless of OS?. > > There are plenty of ways of copying a raw disk (either to another disk or > to a 'container file'), the most obvious one being dd on a unix machine. > > The problem is that these requires (obviously) that the disk controller > can read the data off the disk, at least at the bit/byte level. And Apple > have always used GCR (Group Code Recording) which is incompatible with > the FM (single density) or MFM (double density) recording systems used by > most other manufacturers. I don't know if the Lisa uses GCR encoding, but > since the Apple ][ and Macs do, it's a reasonable bet that the Lisa does > likewise. > > So, alas, the PC's disk controller can't read bytes off Lisa disks. So > there's no way to make a copy using a PC. That is a valid statement for an 'as issued' PC, however, there are a couple of cards and software by MicroSolutions which I believe might make it possible. If the disks were 5.25" GCR, the MatchPoint suite will likely do it. And, if the disks are of the 400k persuasion, the MatchMaker suite in conjunction with a 400k or 800k drive will likely work. Unfortunately, MicroSolutions no longer produces either, but I am fortunate enough to have both. - don > > In other words, how do I copy these disks without my Lisa 2 up and > > running? > > I think the only way is to find some other Lisa 'up and running'. > > -tony > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Aug 22 13:26:36 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? References: <199808191437.JAA28356@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <35DF0D5B.96C76A97@idirect.com> >Jeff Kaneko wrote: > You sure it's not a working model of a BORG scout ship? > Nobody mentioned *who's* govenrment Harris contracted for! > (Sorry for raising the noise floor, guys. Couldn't resist). > > :-)) > > Jeff Jerome Fine replies: Hi Jeff, You make my day several times a day. I have left this one in my In Box and every time I ask for e-mail, I take a few seconds to have a ROFLOL. I though that by waiting to reply for a few days, that would emphasize my reply!!!!!!! THANK YOU VEEEEEEEEEERY MUUUUUUUUUUUCH!!!!!! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 22 13:30:43 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: <7984760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 21 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: **** snip **** > Incidentally, there is a way to de-serialize LOS diskettes using FEdit -- > I don't know where your set of disks came from, or whether they've been > used. (The LOS install disks have to be un-write-protected because the > first time you install the software, the installer reads the Lisa's > unique hardware serial number and writes it to the disk for piracy > prevention. If you ever try to install the software on another machine, > it won't let you.) > I, for one, would be interested in learning the details. - don From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 22 13:42:33 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software Message-ID: <7992350@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> >On 21 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > >**** snip **** > >> Incidentally, there is a way to de-serialize LOS diskettes using FEdit -- >> I don't know where your set of disks came from, or whether they've been >> used. (The LOS install disks have to be un-write-protected because the >> first time you install the software, the installer reads the Lisa's >> unique hardware serial number and writes it to the disk for piracy >> prevention. If you ever try to install the software on another machine, >> it won't let you.) > > >I, for one, would be interested in learning the details. > > - don > > Okay -- it's several pages of text and diagrams (screen shots, I think). If I can scan and OCR it without losing too much, I'll email it. Maybe save as low-res pics otherwise. Will do that later today... -- MB From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sat Aug 22 14:21:17 1998 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutlledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Old plasma display] Message-ID: <35DF1A2D.D7BF1699@bigfoot.com> I'm looking for some info on old Panasonic plasma displays. For those of you who have computers that use them for sale, I might be interested in paying a reasonable price for one just to get a working display so I can measure the voltages and get all of them working. I have the controllers for the touchscreen and would especially like to get that working. (Forward of message I also sent to Panasonic and ELO:) Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > I have a couple of old Matsushita/Panasonic plasma displays (about 10 > years old I think). One of them has an Elo touch screen. I was > wondering if you happen to have the power supply voltages for the plasma > displays? The power connector on one has 3 pins, and on the other has 4 > pins but only 3 of them are hooked up to wires on the cable. The > polarity is marked, but not the voltages themselves, only "high voltage" > vs. "low voltage" and I'm wondering how high is high? > > One display has the numbers > MD400F640PD5 > 9.5.3 C:153536 > > The other: > MD400F640PD4 > 8.1.2 T-7050 > > Or, if all else fails, can you tell me what kind of computer these would > have been used in? maybe I can find some archives on that or find one > of the computers for sale somewhere. (I'm suspecting a Compaq > lunchbox?) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 22 14:30:00 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: Apple /// In-Reply-To: <199808221553.IAA15984@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > The new Apple /// has darker keycaps > The older Apple /// has a shielded "Color Video" Port > On the tags on the bottom of the units: > The older has a place to check off either 64k 96k or 128k (128k is > checked) > The new has a place to check off either 128k or 256k (128k is checked) I believe you have a /// and a ///+. > its not, what causes the discrepancy in startup procedure? Just minutely > different versions of the Apple ///, or does the older units bad RAM have > something to do with it? I think you've got bad RAM. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 14:56:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:08 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <19980822195618.591.qmail@hotmail.com> Wow! It's amazing how different a CRT looks after three weeks' break. I don't even feel like sitting at a computer that much anymore. Sorry to start off again on a bad foot, but does anyone know why a certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 15:50:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: <7984760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 21, 98 10:06:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980822/caab5c9d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 15:55:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: <199808220134.VAA26191@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Aug 22, 98 09:30:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980822/79763765/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 22 18:04:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Apple /// In-Reply-To: <199808221553.IAA15984@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >I understand there was an upgrade to the Apple /// dubbed the "Apple >///+". I was under the impression the '+' was actually written on the >case. Is this the case, or is it possible my newer unit is a ///+? If Well, I know basically nothing about Apple ///'s, however, I do know that the ///+'s are well marked as that. At least mine is. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 22 18:09:10 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: References: <7984760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 21, 98 10:06:56 pm Message-ID: >> >> --- Tony Duell wrote: >> [Re: copying Lisa disks w/o a working Lisa] >> I think the only way is to find some other Lisa 'up and running'.=20 >> --- end of quote --- >> >> There is another way, I think, using Mac utilities. Mr. Craig sent = > >I would guess that the Mac disk controller would be able to read the >later 3.5" Lisa disks. Of course this doesn't help with the 'twiggy' disks. I took disk images of the Lisa software and used my Mac to copy them to floppy. However, IIRC I had to use one of my 68k based Macs for this, it wouldn't work with my PowerMac 8500/180. I've noticed that the 68k Macs are better able to handle floppies than my PowerMac. On a slightly different note, I believe the floppies are in a different format, so the Mac won't actually be able to read them, just make disk images. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 22 17:14:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 22, 98 03:09:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980822/2cfbfe6d/attachment.ksh From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 22 17:41:25 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software Message-ID: <7995890@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > [Re: copying Lisa disks w/o a working Lisa] > I think the only way is to find some other Lisa 'up and running'.=20 > --- end of quote --- > > There is another way, I think, using Mac utilities. Mr. Craig sent = I would guess that the Mac disk controller would be able to read the later 3.5" Lisa disks. Of course this doesn't help with the 'twiggy' disks. --- end of quote --- Right, but in this case it was specified "Lisa II" which means no Twiggies. (Unless there's some _really_ weird modification happening here...) ;) -- MB From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 23 17:51:56 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Apple /// Message-ID: <199808222257.SAA05966@gate.usaor.net> > Well, I know basically nothing about Apple ///'s, however, I do know that > the ///+'s are well marked as that. At least mine is. > My school had a bunch of Apple ///'s, and also a bunch of Apple ///+'s. The ///+'s are definitely marked as that. Unless the "+" got rubbed or scraped off of yours... -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From tomowad at earthlink.net Sat Aug 22 18:23:46 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Apple /// Message-ID: <199808222323.QAA13956@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >My school had a bunch of Apple ///'s, and also a bunch of Apple ///+'s. >The ///+'s are definitely marked as that. Unless the "+" got rubbed or >scraped off of yours... Nope. That's definately not the case. I guess they're both slight variants of ///'s. Thanks for the info, everybody. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 23 03:48:01 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <57d773ed.35dfd743@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-22 15:57:55 EDT, you write: << Wow! It's amazing how different a CRT looks after three weeks' break. I don't even feel like sitting at a computer that much anymore. Sorry to start off again on a bad foot, but does anyone know why a certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. >> stiction. nothing you can do about it. From bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 23 09:47:05 1998 From: bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II operating software In-Reply-To: <199808230702.AAA10533@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <000f01bdcea4$e5712d80$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> Let me make an offer (without knowing exactly what I'm getting into...) I haven't been following this thread too closely because I've never had a Lisa or even a Mac...until yesterday. I now am the proud (but ignorant) owner of a fully working 1 MB Lisa 2 (the Mac XL variety) with the 10 meg HD and 3.5" disk. If given explicit instructions on how to de-serialize, I'd be happy to make copies of whatever disks you would like. And since I've been short of time (and I'm lazy!) I'd appreciate a few choice URL's with solid info of all sorts on the Lisa - less on its history and more on hardware and software, operational hints, etc. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 23 08:49:23 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II/"whats the matter with my Lisa?" In-Reply-To: <7984760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: > > Incidentally, there is a way to de-serialize LOS diskettes using FEdit -- I don't know where your set of disks came from, or whether they've been used. (The LOS install disks have to be un-write-protected because the first time you install the software, the installer reads the Lisa's unique hardware serial number and writes it to the disk for piracy prevention. If you ever try to install the software on another machine, it won't let you.) > > What's the matter with your Lisa? > > -- MB > I don't know apples, I usually work on P.C.'s, so I'm not sure. When I try to turn it on it chirps. I've experienced that with monitors before and the man who gave it to me (yes, you heard that right) said that it had been working but the monitor was not coming on anymore. He also added that he was able to get it up if he gently wiggled the circuit board at the back. After hauling it down from the bedroom into my "lab" today and asking it nicely to work, I wondered if it isn't the power supply instead/as well. Colan From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 23 10:35:15 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II/"whats the matter with my Lisa?" Message-ID: <8003399@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- wrote: > > What's the matter with your Lisa? > > -- MB > I don't know apples, I usually work on P.C.'s, so I'm not sure. When I try to turn it on it chirps. I've experienced that with monitors before and the man who gave it to me (yes, you heard that right) said that it had been working but the monitor was not coming on anymore. He also added that he was able to get it up if he gently wiggled the circuit board at the back. After hauling it down from the bedroom into my "lab" today and asking it nicely to work, I wondered if it isn't the power supply instead/as well. Colan --- end of quote --- Re: wiggling the circuit board. Perhaps the card's contacts are dirty -- try rubbing alcohol with a lint-free cloth, you might get lucky. The chirping sure sounds like a power supply thing to me...though for what it's worth, that was a real common problem (easily fixed) with the old compact Macs (128, 512, Plus) that used the analog board power supply. There was a distinctive ring of solder points, visible from the non-component side of the board, where the flyback transformer was attached (the blocky part with the little suction-cup connector that sends high voltage to the built-in CRT). Over time the solder would crack from repeated heat expansion and contraction. The symptom was either no video, or a more-or-less chirping sound. Often the solution was as simple as resoldering those points -- maybe there's some similarity with the Lisa's internals? Dafax Processing has replacement power supplies for $250 (gouge! Sun Remarketing sells a entire Lisa for that, I think. But it's Mac-modified, bummer.) Maybe there's a discount if you trade in your old one, I don't know. Dafax's number is 718-746-8220, and Sun Remarketing's is 1-800-821-3221 (maybe they have parts for less?) Good luck! -- MB From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 23 12:32:44 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: OK, I've found the TCP/IP distributions on the Kent University web site. The thing is, they're on RX02 disk images of some sort. How on earth do I deal with these? They obviosly aren't compatible with Bob Supnik's Emulator, at least I couldn't access them. I'm wanting to use them on my SMS-1000. It is a PDP-11/73, 4Mb RAM, Ethernet, and a funky drive controller which in the case of the 5.25" floppy I believe is able to emulate either a RX50 (how it currently is set) or a RX02. I'm wondering if the RX02 mode requires the model with the 8" drive, which I just happen to have in a shed out back (obviously not as decked out, and with a dead hard drive, but still a /73). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Aug 23 12:25:44 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa questions Message-ID: <199808231725.KAA15958@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 713 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/20d7ef5b/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Aug 23 11:07:23 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: I'm Back! In-Reply-To: <57d773ed.35dfd743@aol.com> Message-ID: > certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly > against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. >> > > stiction. nothing you can do about it. > Actually an ex-friend of mine had a technique to 'sticky' drives. The theory goes if it's hosed anyway and you need to get data off it, you can do things to it that you wouldn't ordinarily do and what do you have to lose? At any rate, I've used it before and it seems to work on X percent of drives that are totally stuck (especially ones that won't start up even when whacked). You put the drive top-down (circuit side up) on top of a nice toasty monitor and just leave it there for several days or weeks. I don't know if this loosens up some lubricant, expands whatever's sticky or what but if you take the drive off the monitor and hook it up immediately and start it up immediately...occasionally you can get it to spin up and give you your data. The opposite of this is a drive I had (old Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI) that would run for about 2 hours, overheat and 'shut down' (it wouldn't spin down...it'd just start giving errors and was generally useless). I knew it was heat because I could extend the time-till-shutdown to about 3 hours by pointing a small muffin fan at it. I had NO money at the time...except for rent money I was flat broke...and couldn't afford to replace the drive and...seeing how it was 1991 and I live in the backwater state of Iowa, nobody would loan me a replacement. The Mac SE it was in was also out of warranty. At any rate, since it was winter it was cold outside so I wrapped the drive in a plastic bag, sealed it up with duct tape around the SCSI cable, set it on the ledge outside the window, closed the window without squishing the cable and sealed up the crack with duct tape. Left the machine and the drive on for something like 2 months that way (though my memory is a bit rusty there) until I could save enough money for a replacement. I was worried about condensation inside the bag but it never caused a problem. At one point, the drive slid off the ledge and was dangling by the SCSI cable and power cable but the duct tape held it firm. It ran like that for several days until I noticed it wasn't on the ledge. On a related subject, I've seen and had several Syquest 40 meg drives that wouldn't work and wouldn't work and wouldn't work until you flipped them upside and then they'd work just fine. Not the cartridge...the whole drive. Which reminds me...I worked at a typesetting shop once and a guy from another department walks in and tells me he's accidentally formatted his syquest cartridge and is there any way to get the data back? So, with a room full of people who knew better I told him, "Oh yeah...if you just flip the cartridge over, that'll run it backwards so that if you format it again, that'll do the reverse of formatting it and you data will be back." I figured he'd know I was kidding but he DIDN'T and starting walking away to DO IT! I stopped him fortunately and recovered his data with proper tools. Of course, a couple months later he thrashed the innards of a $1500 magneto-optical drive by jamming an 80 meg syquest cartridge into it REAL HARD. I patiently explained to him that when you hear snapping sounds and grinding metal you're generally doing something wrong. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 23 12:33:09 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa questions Message-ID: <8005267@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- "Seth J. Morabito" wrote: I currently have leads on three Lisa 2/5 systems (two working, one completely dead and scavanged for parts already). It's very very possible that both of the working models have already undergone the "Mac XLectomy". Is it possible to reverse the Macification of the Lisa? I want to run the original virgin Lisa software :) I believ3 that the dead Lisa still has the motherboard, and that it is an original Lisa 2/5 motherboard. Can I just make a swap, or is the XLectomy more insidious? --- end of quote --- The Macintosh Screen Modification involves changing out some ROMS (boot and video) and replacing the yoke coil, as well as performing voltage and video geometry adjustments afterward. It's technically reversible if you have the old parts -- where to get them, I don't know. You'd need the voltage and screen-size specs to get it just right (and avoid blowing the power supply). Sun Remarketing still sells the mod kit, so perhaps they have the parts that were removed to do modifications? -- MB From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 23 12:41:09 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa questions Message-ID: <8005436@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- "Seth J. Morabito" wrote: I currently have leads on three Lisa 2/5 systems (two working, one completely dead and scavanged for parts already). It's very very possible that both of the working models have already undergone the "Mac XLectomy". --- end of quote --- Wait a sec, I just re-read that. I think the modification can only be done to Lisa 2/10's (aka Mac XL's) -- so if they're 2/5's, then they must be actual Lisas...right? Can anyone verify this? -- MB From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Aug 23 08:24:56 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Mac Portable problems (was Re: Mac Portable batt charger) Message-ID: <003301bdcec0$bc4f53c0$da75fea9@mainoffice> On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:39:13 -0700 (PDT), Don Maslin wrote: >>I am confused by this! The MacPortable FAQ says that the drive is a >>40meg SCSI with a (typically Apple) proprietary interface of 34-pins. >>But the Pocket PCRef list the CP3045 as an AT/IDE drive. Is that a typo >>in the PCRef? Could be a typo in the PCRef. The drive is labeled CP-3045 (with no suffix character, i.e., A for ATAPI or S for SCSI). It is Apple-labeled and has an Adaptec-based SCSI controller. Could have Apple taken a stock CP hard drive and grafted a different controller card onto it? The interface from the drive hardware to the drive electronics seems to be standard (i.e., an 18-pin pin-header interface), so maybe Apple swapped controllers. It does have a proprietary SCSI pin-out, though, for which an adapter is available to connect a sdandard SCSI drive to the portable. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 23 13:20:33 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II/"whats the matter with my Lisa?" In-Reply-To: <8003399@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: Bless you. I think thats it. As to the replacement power supply, for the price, and that is U.S. i.e. real money, it would be more useful for me to buy a variable power supply, play around with the Lisa and then wait until I find a real one for a more tolerable price. On 23 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > --- wrote: > > > > What's the matter with your Lisa? > > > > Good luck! > > -- MB > From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 23 13:30:45 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization Message-ID: <8006346@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 636 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/b91a9869/attachment.bin From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 23 13:40:24 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun In-Reply-To: <35DE22B0.2192@geocities.com> Message-ID: <13382130876.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* (TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 23 13:42:16 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808220302.NAA19469@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <13382131215.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> DECsystem-10 fiche? Which 10? If you pitch that, I'll personally show up and disembowel you with a blunt object. :) Or at least drop an 11/44 on your toes. ------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 23 13:45:53 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization Message-ID: <9fc432f.35e06363@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-23 14:33:15 EDT, you write: << Anyone who wants a copy by email, let me know. If you have a PC or are using UNIX (anything other than a Mac), tell me what kind of compression to use (I can create a pkzip archive, if needed). >> how about putting it somewhere like on a web page or something? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 23 12:27:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II/"whats the matter with my Lisa?" In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 23, 98 09:49:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2096 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/7fa23cc1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 23 12:33:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa II/"whats the matter with my Lisa?" In-Reply-To: <8003399@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 23, 98 11:35:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1677 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/e47706a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 23 12:36:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa questions In-Reply-To: <199808231725.KAA15958@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 23, 98 10:25:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/f83f5ba9/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Aug 23 14:04:45 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <980823150445.21a00134@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >OK, I've found the TCP/IP distributions on the Kent University web site. >The thing is, they're on RX02 disk images of some sort. How on earth do I >deal with these? They obviosly aren't compatible with Bob Supnik's >Emulator, at least I couldn't access them. You put the disk image on a RT-11 disk and mount it using the LD: (logical disk) handler. Logical disks are RT-11's implementation of subdirectories, and you can even have logical disks inside logical disks. As an example: .dir du1:*.pkg 23-Aug-1998 TCPIP .PKG 22000 23-Aug-1998 1 Files, 22000 Blocks 23189 Free blocks .mou ld0: du1:tcpip.pkg .dir ld0: 23-Aug-1998 TSDSK1.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 TSDSK2.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 TSDSK3.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 RTDSK1.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 RTDSK2.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 RTDSK3.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SRDSK1.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SRDSK2.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SRDSK3.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SRDSK4.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SMLTCP.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SSDSK1.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 DVRDSK.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 CCDSK1.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 CCDSK2.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 CCXDSK.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 DOCDSK.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 RNODSK.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 TSHTML.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 RTHTML.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 SSHTML.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 TCPIPM.DSK 988P 01-Jun-1998 V02 .24 1 01-Jun-1998 DIR2P2.DOC 97 01-Jun-1998 24 Files, 21834 Blocks 98 Free blocks .mou ld1: ld0:docdsk.dsk .dir ld1: 23-Aug-1998 SS .DOC 162 01-Jun-1998 RT .DOC 335 01-Jun-1998 TSX .DOC 345 01-Jun-1998 SS .ABS 3 01-Jun-1998 RT .ABS 5 01-Jun-1998 TSX .ABS 5 01-Jun-1998 6 Files, 855 Blocks 119 Free blocks If you want to learn more about operations like this, I'd advise you to throughly look over the description of the MOUNT command in the System User's Guide. ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Aug 23 14:27:04 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun Message-ID: <001801bdcecc$0311f280$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Well actually I have a SUN branded version of TOPS for the MAC and a Centram branded version for both the PC and the MAC. I guess it's going from hand to hands or maby on is a clone of the other.I haven't installed them yet but I'm planning on using them to hook my MACs to my PC network with a FlashCard on a dedicated PC.. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 1:42 PM Subject: Re: TOPS for PC, from sun >If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, >DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* > >(TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) >------- > From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 14:52:54 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808231952.AA28683@world.std.com> >OK, I've found the TCP/IP distributions on the Kent University web site. >The thing is, they're on RX02 disk images of some sort. How on earth do >I deal with these? They obviosly aren't compatible with Bob Supnik's >Emulator, at least I couldn't access them. There is an RX02 emulation in Bob's package (that I remember). The only thing I can think of which might affect whether they are readable is whether the disk images you have are sector-by-sector image copies, or block-by-block image copies. If they were copied using one technique, but read using the other, then you'll actually be mixing unrelated sectors together to form a block. I would have to check the source (or ask Bob) which technique is supposed to be used to make image RX01/02 copies so that they work. >I'm wanting to use them on my SMS-1000. It is a PDP-11/73, 4Mb RAM, >Ethernet, and a funky drive controller which in the case of the 5.25" >floppy I believe is able to emulate either a RX50 (how it currently is >set) or a RX02. I'm wondering if the RX02 mode requires the model with >the 8" drive, which I just happen to have in a shed out back (obviously >not as decked out, and with a dead hard drive, but still a /73). Umm... 8" is what pretty much defines RX02s... I don't know of an RX02 which was other than 8" (except for the advanced development RX's which communicated with the controller via FDDI back in 1983 or so which I got working using a modified DY handler). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 14:57:22 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808231957.AA01030@world.std.com> >DECsystem-10 fiche? Which 10? >If you pitch that, I'll personally show up and disembowel you with a >blunt object. :) I felt the same way... I asked whether it was software fiche or hardware fiche... I am working on lining up a KS10 for myself and was interested in it... I have a set of fiche which contains the listings of TOPS-10, some version (I don't remember which), and utilities... I won't be getting rid of that anytime soon (if ever). But I'm interested in whatever hardware fiche I can get... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 15:00:27 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808232000.AA02735@world.std.com> >>OK, I've found the TCP/IP distributions on the Kent University web site. >>The thing is, they're on RX02 disk images of some sort. How on earth do >>I deal with these? They obviosly aren't compatible with Bob Supnik's >>Emulator, at least I couldn't access them. > >You put the disk image on a RT-11 disk and mount it using the LD: >(logical disk) handler. Logical disks are RT-11's implementation of >subdirectories, and you can even have logical disks inside logical >disks. As an example: Thanks, Tim... I took him at his word that he had RX02 images... From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 23 15:05:18 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808231957.AA01030@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13382146329.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Megan's getting a KS...] I know where I could get a KL, but I don't have room for it... (Or power...) It's safe, don't worry about it :) I just gave up on getting a 10 in reality for now (No room for even a KS!) and set about emulating it. (looks at the instruction set) Yes, I'm nuts. I've all of the halfword instructions done, and I'm starting the full-word transmission instructions now. It's nto just me, there's a mailing list at e10@cosmic.com if you feel like contributing. It's in C, and it's for Unixes. The source lives at ftp://bony.umtec.com/pub/ka10. Current target is a KA-10. Once that works, we'll add cache and stuff and make it a KL. I'm learning as I go, that way I don't look at all I've got left to do and get all discouraged and give up. Ignorance is bliss :) ------- From gzozman at escape.ca Sun Aug 23 16:21:11 1998 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization References: <8006346@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <35E087C7.68FD5544@escape.ca> I would like to take you up on your offer; I don't have a Lisa at this time, but hope to get one at some point, so this info would be very handy. A PKZIP file would work just fine for me. Thanks very much! Grant Zozman gzozman@escape.ca Marion Bates wrote: > Okay, I have created an Acrobat PDF file of the Lisa Tools deserialization info. It's kind of large, partly because I wanted to keep the DPI pretty high so the screen shots of hex code are readable, but mostly because I've never made a PDF before and don't know what I'm doing. (Acrobat manuals got lost.) So, compressed with Stuffit, it's about 1.8 megs (for eleven pages), expands to 2.5. But it's readable and semi-navigable. > > Anyone who wants a copy by email, let me know. If you have a PC or are using UNIX (anything other than a Mac), tell me what kind of compression to use (I can create a pkzip archive, if needed). > > -- MB From william at ans.net Sun Aug 23 16:31:17 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <13382146329.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > [Megan's getting a KS...] > > I know where I could get a KL, but I don't have room for it... (Or power...) > It's safe, don't worry about it :) It is getting to be that you can not swing a dead cat without hitting a -10 of sorts! Why are they popping out of the woodwork all of a sudden? I am getting a KS-10, and RCS/RI is looking into getting a rather large DECsystem 2065 (KL-10). Then there was that KS-10 in Rhode Island a few months back. And on and on... William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 23 17:37:27 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <199808232000.AA02735@world.std.com> Message-ID: >>You put the disk image on a RT-11 disk and mount it using the LD: >>(logical disk) handler. Logical disks are RT-11's implementation of >>subdirectories, and you can even have logical disks inside logical >>disks. As an example: > >Thanks, Tim... I took him at his word that he had RX02 images... What can I say, I thought I did. Now to get the various systems unburied, and powered up so I can get the images onto RX50's and give this a try!!! Logical disks, cool... What can I say, I'm learning :^) On the other hand, it looks like this shows a definite problem with having manuals that are a LOT older than the version of RT-11 I'm running. I can't even find 'mount' in the manuals :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 23 16:57:31 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13382166758.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [RCS/RI is getting a KL, and Donzelli is getting a KS...] Any plans to run ITS? ------- From william at ans.net Sun Aug 23 17:04:54 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <13382166758.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > Any plans to run ITS? Well, first we have to get the thing to Rhode Island! A preliminary visit to the beast shows us a load of SIX big racks, in a location that is definitely truck unfriendly. Oh, then we have to cram in into our precious Millspace! William Donzelli william@ans.net From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Aug 23 17:02:55 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <980823180255.21a0014f@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Logical disks, cool... What can I say, I'm learning :^) On the other >hand, it looks like this shows a definite problem with having manuals that >are a LOT older than the version of RT-11 I'm running. I can't even find >'mount' in the manuals :^( Which version are you running? LD: wasn't a standard distributed driver until V5. For pre-V5 systems, there are DECUS equivalent drivers. Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Aug 23 17:04:18 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <980823180418.21a0014f@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Well, first we have to get the thing to Rhode Island! A preliminary visit >to the beast shows us a load of SIX big racks, in a location that is >definitely truck unfriendly. Time for a mobile crane or at least a heavy-duty cherry-picker? :-) Tim. From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 23 17:17:14 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization Message-ID: <8010842@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: << Anyone who wants a copy by email, let me know. If you have a PC or are using UNIX (anything other than a Mac), tell me what kind of compression to use (I can create a pkzip archive, if needed). >> how about putting it somewhere like on a web page or something? --- end of quote --- I did, but you'll starve to death waiting for it to load. ;) That's if you use the Netscape/Acrobat PDF-viewer plugin. If you just want to download it (it's not compressed), that might be better. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba/deserial.pdf -- MB From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 23 17:58:31 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > > [Megan's getting a KS...] > > > > I know where I could get a KL, but I don't have room for it... (Or power...) > > It's safe, don't worry about it :) > > It is getting to be that you can not swing a dead cat without hitting a > -10 of sorts! Why are they popping out of the woodwork all of a sudden? Dead cats or -10s? 8<:^} - don > I am getting a KS-10, and RCS/RI is looking into getting a > rather large DECsystem 2065 (KL-10). Then there was that KS-10 in > Rhode Island a few months back. And on and on... > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 23 18:17:12 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization In-Reply-To: <8010842@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 23 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > > I did, but you'll starve to death waiting for it to load. ;) That's if you use the Netscape/Acrobat PDF-viewer plugin. If you just want to download it (it's not compressed), that might be better. > > http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba/deserial.pdf > Thanks Marion. Using Lynx, it was just about two minutes flat to my ISP. - don From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 18:28:11 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808232328.AA11775@world.std.com> "Daniel A. Seagraves" wrote: >[Megan's getting a KS...] I'm hoping to... nothing definite yet. But I'm also almost definitely getting an 8/E soon... >I know where I could get a KL, but I don't have room for it... (Or >power...) It's safe, don't worry about it :) Good... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 23 19:44:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <980823180255.21a0014f@timvax.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >>Logical disks, cool... What can I say, I'm learning :^) On the other >>hand, it looks like this shows a definite problem with having manuals that >>are a LOT older than the version of RT-11 I'm running. I can't even find >>'mount' in the manuals :^( > >Which version are you running? LD: wasn't a standard distributed >driver until V5. For pre-V5 systems, there are DECUS equivalent >drivers. > >Tim. I have the V5.3 media kit, and the V3 docs. Not the best of combo's, but a LOT better than I was doing a couple weeks ago when I didn't have any documentation. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 23 20:39:04 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 (Part 2) Message-ID: OK, I've got the RX02 virtual disk images I want on my 486 (it's the one with the 1.2Mb floppy, booted into DOS, and started up 'putr'. I made a RX50 using putr, and go to copy the smltcp.dsk image to the RX50. Unfortunatly it complains that there isn't enough room. I take it that a RX50 is less than 500k? I think the image is 492k. Is there some way that I can split the disk images and then recombine them once I've got them copied over to the /73? I'm just not feeling energetic enough to want to move a RL02 drive around and juggle the controller between my MicroVAX and /73 to get the files transferred tonite. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From scottk5 at ibm.net Sun Aug 23 19:45:25 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Anybody want this stuff? References: <8010842@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <35E0B7A5.6A2B@ibm.net> Hello All: I was lucky enough to buy the old building downtown where I have stored and worked on all my old machines over the past three years, but renovation is starting soon and some of this stuff has to GO! I wondered if any of you are interested in any of this stuff: LOTS of PCJr parts (most new in the box) Several complete working Juniors, one with expanded RAM, 2nd story 3.5" 720K floppy, and Ramdrive. Some really interesting software for these, original M'soft Flight Simulator, Lotus 123 (on cartridge rom for pete's sake), even an accounting software package. and others! 1 Amstrad PC640 w/software (and a lot of spare parts and monitors for same). 1 Apple IIe ( w/ 2 floppies, monitor, just a few pieces of software, a couple of original manuals w/disks) 1 Amdek Apple color monitor (one RCA Video-in jack) LOTS of PC XT's (doesn't everyone want one of these?) 1 Xerox 16/4 with COMPLETE documentation, machine boots and runs fine from floppy, but HDD fails to pass initialization (think it needs a new controller card). MUCHOS basic Commodore stuff, no fancy REU's or anything, but several complete working systems with matching floppy drives, C64, C64c, Vic20. Also C128, C16, piece of a Colt 286. Also 1 non-working PET 2001. Printer interface for C64. 2 Hewlett Packard things (I think I promised these to a listmember in Florida, if you are reading this, please get in touch, as I have forgotten your name!) Anyway, if you can use any of this stuff, please contact me. I don't expect to get rich off the sales and I'd rather another collector get it than dumpsterize it. I live in Eastern NC so factor that into the shipping. I will try to make a more complete inventory of this stuff and put it on my website if there is enough interest in it. Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Aug 23 20:20:52 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 (Part 2) Message-ID: <980823212052.21a0015e@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >OK, I've got the RX02 virtual disk images I want on my 486 (it's the one >with the 1.2Mb floppy, booted into DOS, and started up 'putr'. I made a >RX50 using putr, and go to copy the smltcp.dsk image to the RX50. >Unfortunatly it complains that there isn't enough room. I take it that a >RX50 is less than 500k? I think the image is 492k. An RX50 is 400Kbytes. >Is there some way that I can split the disk images and then recombine them >once I've got them copied over to the /73? You may as well just copy half the files on each RX02 image to one RX50, and the other half of the files to a second RX50. Rather than juggling floppies around all day, why not just Kermit the TCP/IP disk images into your -11? Tim. From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 21:01:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808240201.AA18875@world.std.com> References: <199808220302.NAA19469@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <199808240213.MAA26058@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 11:42 AM 23-08-98 -0700, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >DECsystem-10 fiche? Which 10? >If you pitch that, I'll personally show up and disembowel you with a >blunt object. :) Tempting as the offer of a personal visit for a disembowelment is, I might skip it this time round. There is no way that I'd throw out the -10 fiche. Given that we had a KI-10 I assume the fiche is for that - the reason for the "assume" there is that someone has thrown out our fiche reader. Thinking about this over the weekend, is there a service that will take fiche and put it onto a more useful medium (say image files on a CD) that anyone has heard of? >Or at least drop an 11/44 on your toes. Too late, been there, done that, broke toes.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun Aug 23 21:15:12 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808231957.AA01030@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808240215.MAA26041@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 03:57 PM 23-08-98 -0400, Megan wrote: > >>DECsystem-10 fiche? Which 10? >>If you pitch that, I'll personally show up and disembowel you with a >>blunt object. :) > >I felt the same way... I asked whether it was software fiche or >hardware fiche... I am working on lining up a KS10 for myself >and was interested in it... It's definitely hardware only. See my other reply to Daniel as to why I don't know exactly what's on it.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Aug 23 21:16:11 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <980823221611.21a00163@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Umm... 8" is what pretty much defines RX02s... I don't know of an RX02 >which was other than 8" You gotta get out of the development world and into the real world a little more often, Megan :-). I do a lot of software development for ADAC NMR (aka MRI) scanners that run a heavily modified RT-11 V4, where the 5.25" 80-track floppies are basically treated as if they were double-sided RX02's. (i.e. the geometry only uses 77 tracks, and actually skips the first track, just like a real RX02!) ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 21:27:43 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808240227.AA06034@world.std.com> >It's definitely hardware only. See my other reply to Daniel as to why I >don't know exactly what's on it.... Is there any service which duplicates fiche? (and produces something readable?) I remember making fiche for listings of various things back when I worked on some DECsystem-10s at the PK1 (parker St, Maynard, MA) facility. The fiche was produced by some device which read magtapes with machine-readable listings, produced on the -10... At one point, I did what was required to produce a set of fiche with the RT-11 listings on it... this was RT V2C. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 21:37:42 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:09 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808240237.AA15877@world.std.com> >>Umm... 8" is what pretty much defines RX02s... I don't know of an RX02 >>which was other than 8" > >You gotta get out of the development world and into the real world >a little more often, Megan :-). I do a lot of software development >for ADAC NMR (aka MRI) scanners that run a heavily modified RT-11 V4, >where the 5.25" 80-track floppies are basically treated as if they >were double-sided RX02's. (i.e. the geometry only uses 77 tracks, >and actually skips the first track, just like a real RX02!) That may be (about getting out of the development world...) but my statement stands. A true RX02 is pretty much defined as being an 8" floppy... you said so yourself in this response by saying that it was 'treated as if' it were an RX02... But the fact is that a 3.5" or 5.25" (or some size other than 8") device which is 'treated as if' it were an RX02 *IS NOT* an RX02. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 21:55:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808240255.AA29883@world.std.com> < for ADAC NMR (aka MRI) scanners that run a heavily modified RT-11 V4, < where the 5.25" 80-track floppies are basically treated as if they < were double-sided RX02's. (i.e. the geometry only uses 77 tracks, < and actually skips the first track, just like a real RX02!) Other than the media will not store the same amount without resorting to RX33 (or similar) formatting. The RX02 is 512kb on 77 tracks and 26 sectors of 256 bytes. That really doesn't work on 5.25 floppies. So likely the format is a bit more munged. Anyhow calling something that's media incompatable a "RX02" sorta makes for great confusion. Hell I have a solidstate serial disk that emulates a TU58 that uses ram for storage, it's a TU58 to the software (DD driver) and it's 256k per tape but it's hardly media compatable. So if someone says RX02 it means 8" SSDD floppy using DEC M^2FM encoding of the data fields and is able to read and write RX01 media. Even a DSD880/120 obeyed that! Allison From museum at techniche.com Sun Aug 23 22:06:55 1998 From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Anybody want this stuff? Message-ID: <199808240306.XAA15144@chmls05.mediaone.net> Hi Scott, I think I'd be interested in the xerox and the Amstrad. Are they spoken for yet? Where are you located? I'm in NH. Thanks, Jon ================== >Hello All: > >I was lucky enough to buy the old building downtown where I have stored >and worked on all my old machines over the past three years, but >renovation is starting soon and some of this stuff has to GO! I wondered >if any of you are interested in any of this stuff: > >LOTS of PCJr parts (most new in the box) >Several complete working Juniors, one with expanded RAM, 2nd story 3.5" >720K floppy, and Ramdrive. Some really interesting software for these, >original M'soft Flight Simulator, Lotus 123 (on cartridge rom for pete's >sake), even an accounting software package. and others! > >1 Amstrad PC640 w/software (and a lot of spare parts and monitors for >same). > >1 Apple IIe ( w/ 2 floppies, monitor, just a few pieces of software, a >couple of original manuals w/disks) >1 Amdek Apple color monitor (one RCA Video-in jack) > >LOTS of PC XT's (doesn't everyone want one of these?) > >1 Xerox 16/4 with COMPLETE documentation, machine boots and runs fine >from floppy, but HDD fails to pass initialization (think it needs a new >controller card). > >MUCHOS basic Commodore stuff, no fancy REU's or anything, but several >complete working systems with matching floppy drives, C64, C64c, Vic20. >Also C128, C16, piece of a Colt 286. Also 1 non-working PET 2001. >Printer interface for C64. > >2 Hewlett Packard things (I think I promised these to a listmember in >Florida, if you are reading this, please get in touch, as I have >forgotten your name!) > >Anyway, if you can use any of this stuff, please contact me. I don't >expect to get rich off the sales and I'd rather another collector get it >than dumpsterize it. I live in Eastern NC so factor that into the >shipping. I will try to make a more complete inventory of this stuff and >put it on my website if there is enough interest in it. > >Kirk Scott >scottk5@ibm.net > From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 23 22:10:32 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808240310.AA11257@world.std.com> >Other than the media will not store the same amount without resorting >to RX33 (or similar) formatting. The RX02 is 512kb on 77 tracks and 26 >sectors of 256 bytes. That really doesn't work on 5.25 floppies. So >likely the format is a bit more munged. Anyhow calling something that's >media incompatable a "RX02" sorta makes for great confusion. Hell I >have a solidstate serial disk that emulates a TU58 that uses ram for >storage, it's a TU58 to the software (DD driver) and it's 256k per tape >but it's hardly media compatable. So if someone says RX02 it means 8" >SSDD floppy using DEC M^2FM encoding of the data fields and is able to >read and write RX01 media. Even a DSD880/120 obeyed that! Thanks, Allison... exactly my point... And in fact, early versions of DSDs didn't look exactly like RL01s, they were larger... requiring changes to the driver so that they would work. But these changes were NOT made to the distributed sources... the owner's manual for the DSDs described the changes to make. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun Aug 23 22:14:15 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <19980822102747.AAA16368@emusp6> Message-ID: <199808240314.NAA26182@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:42 AM 22-08-98 -0600, emanuel stiebler wrote: >What information about the q-bus do you need ? Well I'm not really a Qbus person. I never got into PDP-11s much and apart from adding and removing boards from a uVAX-II didn't get to play with Qbus much. The sort of thing I'm looking at is a little more sophisticated than "a bus is something that connects cards together" but a little less boring than a dry description of arcane features of signal timing and decay (although I've read plenty of these in my time). Does this narrow it down a little? I'm sort of surprised that there isn't a nice description on the web somewhere.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 23 22:15:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Xpost: PET 2001 FS and Micro Craft info needed Message-ID: <35E0DAD0.50537458@bbtel.com> If you are interested in the PET or can help him on the Micro Craft email Terry direct as he isn't on this list that I know of. _________________________ Terry Yager Flint, MI USA - Sunday, August 23, 1998 at 21:07:24 Commodore PET 2001 Series Professional Computer, Model #2001-8N. Computer only, no software/peripherals. Runs ROM Based BASIC. Looks great. Best offer over $100. _________________________ Terry Yager Flint, MI USA - Sunday, August 23, 1998 at 19:30:51 Need software/documentation/any info in re: Micro Craft Dimension 68000 computer, manufactured c.1984 by Micro Craft Computer Co., Dallas, TX. Arcticles. reviews, etc. also appreciated. TNX. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 23 22:59:10 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > > [Megan's getting a KS...] > > > > I know where I could get a KL, but I don't have room for it... (Or power...) > > It's safe, don't worry about it :) > > It is getting to be that you can not swing a dead cat without hitting a > -10 of sorts! Why are they popping out of the woodwork all of a sudden? Y2K! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From william at ans.net Sun Aug 23 23:26:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > It is getting to be that you can not swing a dead cat without hitting a > > -10 of sorts! Why are they popping out of the woodwork all of a sudden? > > Y2K! Then where is my S/370? Being in the middle of IBMland, I have to start asking around for any Big Blue stuck in garages... William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 00:19:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 In-Reply-To: <199808240237.AA15877@world.std.com> Message-ID: >>>Umm... 8" is what pretty much defines RX02s... I don't know of an RX02 >>>which was other than 8" >> >>You gotta get out of the development world and into the real world >>a little more often, Megan :-). I do a lot of software development >>for ADAC NMR (aka MRI) scanners that run a heavily modified RT-11 V4, >>where the 5.25" 80-track floppies are basically treated as if they >>were double-sided RX02's. (i.e. the geometry only uses 77 tracks, >>and actually skips the first track, just like a real RX02!) > >That may be (about getting out of the development world...) but >my statement stands. A true RX02 is pretty much defined as being >an 8" floppy... you said so yourself in this response by saying that >it was 'treated as if' it were an RX02... But the fact is that a >3.5" or 5.25" (or some size other than 8") device which is 'treated >as if' it were an RX02 *IS NOT* an RX02. In the case of this SMS-1000 and it's wierd disk controller I suspect that it might be able to emulate the RX02 on a 5.25" disk, which was the reason for the original statement. However, I've got a second SMS-1000 that was Identical to this one, prior to my changing some stuff, that is different only in that it has a 8" drive. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 00:13:58 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 (Part 2) In-Reply-To: <980823212052.21a0015e@timvax.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >You may as well just copy half the files on each RX02 image to one >RX50, and the other half of the files to a second RX50. Doh! Do you have any idea how stupid you just made me feel :^) Thanks, I just copied the files to RX50. Since I couldn't get the emulator to read the disk image I foolishly didn't consider that putr might be able to :^( >Rather than juggling floppies around all day, why not just >Kermit the TCP/IP disk images into your -11? > >Tim. Ummm, two reasons. I'm not sure I've got the necessary hardware pieces in the Box (would I be able to go through a printer port), and secondly I haven't a clue as far as Kermit is concerned. I think I've used it once or twice to transfer data between a Honeywell Mainframe and a PC, but there was a written reciept to follow for that. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 00:27:25 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808240213.MAA26058@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> References: <13382131215.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> <199808220302.NAA19469@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: >Thinking about this over the weekend, is there a service that will take >fiche and put it onto a more useful medium (say image files on a CD) that >anyone has heard of? I just double checked with someone I know, there are companies that do this, unfortunatly he didn't know what it would cost. I imagine it's RATHER expensive. I also suspect they might be leary of doing it for someone other than the copyright holder. Actually I was looking into what it would cost to get a machine to make prints as I got a large stack of DEC fiche a month or so ago, you don't even want to know. You'd have to make 1000's of copies, if not 10,000's, to make it worth it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Mon Aug 24 00:09:46 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Lisa info web site Message-ID: <8017756@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 729 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980824/c849914d/attachment.bin From darkside at digicron.com Mon Aug 24 00:13:12 1998 From: darkside at digicron.com (Poesie De La Fenetre) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun References: <13382130876.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35E0F668.2945@digicron.com> Well, it says that it is a full networking OS that allows mac's and PC's to communicate, etc. seems somewhat along the lines of what francois has. also has a "secret proprietary etc etc" program disk called "RTERM", circa 1985. -Eric Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, > DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* > > (TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) > ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 01:26:08 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Logical Disks and RT-11 Message-ID: OK, it's become obvious to me that I'm not going to figure out how to create a logical disk under RT-11. If someone would be so kind as to explain the steps involved, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 24 01:00:39 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 Message-ID: <199808240600.XAA17484@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 551 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980823/fc12fab7/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 01:23:47 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Lisa info web site In-Reply-To: <8017756@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 24 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Also, because of web space constraints, I removed the deserialization PDF and > reposted it as a Stuffit archive. So, it's still downloadable, but no longer > viewable online. Too big of a file for that anyway. Tell me about it. That thing brought my cable modem to its knees. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From bede0005 at tc.umn.edu Mon Aug 24 01:51:38 1998 From: bede0005 at tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization In-Reply-To: <9fc432f.35e06363@aol.com> Message-ID: I have this document available on my website http://www.asap.net/~rbedeaux/lisa Rob Bedeaux On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-08-23 14:33:15 EDT, you write: > > << Anyone who wants a copy by email, let me know. If you have a PC or are > using > UNIX (anything other than a Mac), tell me what kind of compression to use (I > can create a pkzip archive, if needed). >> > > how about putting it somewhere like on a web page or something? > From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Mon Aug 24 13:43:48 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 In-Reply-To: <199808240600.XAA17484@squeep.com> Message-ID: > Hey folks, > > It's time I finally got my "TI Silent 700" terminal working for something > other than decoration! > Does anyone know the pinout of the 15-pin D-sub connector on the back > of this thing? I don't know of any "standard" 15-pin serial connections, > was there such a thing? I'd like to build a 15-pin to 25-pin connector > for it, so I can use it as console on a box I've got. I have one of those! The problem if I can recall, is that the 15-pin interface is a 20ma current loop, I think I do have the pinouts somewhere I'll have a look Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From svs at ropnet.ru Mon Aug 24 07:29:56 1998 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 In-Reply-To: <199808240600.XAA17484@squeep.com>; from Seth J. Morabito on Sun, Aug 23, 1998 at 11:00:39PM -0700 References: <199808240600.XAA17484@squeep.com> Message-ID: <19980824122956.08958@firepower> G'day, I've found this post with Deja News while searching for info on "my" Silent 700 (I don't own it, just have exclusive right to play with it). This information does not apply to the model I "have"; it has edge connectors, one for communications line, one for dual cassette interface. I haven't figured yet the exact model number; I'll post board numbers later, so that someone could possibly identify the model. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Subject: Re: Silent 700 with 15-pin D connector. pinout?? >From: npreston@cctr.umkc.edu (Neil Preston) Date: 1995/12/28 Message-ID: <1995Dec28.010537@cctr.umkc.edu> Newsgroups: sci.electronics The pinout for the 15 pin D-sub connector of a silent 700 is: Pin 9 - protective ground - terminal chassis pin 1 - Signal ground Printer - keyboard interface pins 11-15 Pin 14 - CR busy; from terminal; lpTTL high-true when printhead is lifted (for test only) Pin 15 - DTR from terminal; EIA level held ON when terminal is on line Pin 13 - XMTD from terminal; EIA level held to MARK state when no data is being transmitted Pin 12 - RCVD from external; Receive data; EIA level held to MARK state by external device when no data is to be printed. Pin 11 - CDET from external; CArrier detect; EIA level held ON by external device when data is to be received on pin 12. EIA communications interface Pins 2,3 8 Pin 2 - CARDET from terminal; Carrier detect; EIA level held ON by terminal when carrier is detected. Pin 8 - RCVDATA from terminal; Receive data; EIA level held to MARK state by terminal when no data is being received. Pin 3 - XMIT DATA from external device; Transmit data; EIA level held to MARK state by external device when no data is to be transmitted. Current loop interface pin 6 - RL1 Input side of receive data current loop when current loop option is installed; otherwise, 3.3K ohms to +5v Pin 7 - RL2; Return side of receive data current loop. as above Pin 5 - X1; Input side of transmit data current loop when option installed. Pin 4 - X2; Return side of transmit data current loop. Pin 10 - P12V - spare EIA level held ON when power is on (3.3K ohms to +12v) If you would like copies of the appropriate pages, send me an SASE with postage sufficient for 8 pages and I will send them to you. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From bobstek at ix20.ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 09:45:52 1998 From: bobstek at ix20.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Lisa questions In-Reply-To: <199808240702.AAA27049@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <001e01bdcf6d$e4059d40$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> If anyone has definitive information on obtaining / copying the ROM's needed to convert the Lisa / Mac XL back to the original Lisa, please copy me with the info. Never having had even a Mac before, I hate to think that I ALMOST have a Lisa, but instead have just an old Mac. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From bobstek at ix8.ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 09:56:54 1998 From: bobstek at ix8.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M Message-ID: <001f01bdcf6f$6ed7d540$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> Allison - IIRC, you were about to write some code to hook up one of these parallel-IDE HD kits to a CP/M machine with an EPP. Could this be made into a more generic project to allow file transfer over any CP/M parallel port? I for one would like to be able to transfer CP/M files from a variety of old systems to a portable IDE drive which could also be read on my PC in order to make archival copies of software for CD-ROMs. And I think there would be other interested parties as well. On another matter, thanks for the RAM 17 manual. And I'm sending you 2 unopened boxes of Dysan 10-hole hard sectored disks for your N*, plus another dozen of used, but perhaps not as used as some of yours, N* disks. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From bobstek at ix6.ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 10:01:16 1998 From: bobstek at ix6.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M Message-ID: <002101bdcf70$0adec3e0$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> Allison - IIRC, you were about to write some code to hook up one of these parallel-IDE HD kits to a CP/M machine with an EPP. Could this be made into a more generic project to allow file transfer over any CP/M parallel port? I for one would like to be able to transfer CP/M files from a variety of old systems to a portable IDE drive which could also be read on my PC in order to make archival copies of software for CD-ROMs. And I think there would be other interested parties as well. On another matter, thanks for the RAM 17 manual. And I'm sending you 2 unopened boxes of Dysan 10-hole hard sectored disks for your N*, plus another dozen of used, but perhaps not as used as some of yours, N* disks. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 07:29:20 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808241229.AA12336@world.std.com> < Well I'm not really a Qbus person. I never got into PDP-11s much and apa < from adding and removing boards from a uVAX-II didn't get to play with Q < much. The sort of thing I'm looking at is a little more sophisticated th < "a bus is something that connects cards together" but a little less bori < than a dry description of arcane features of signal timing and decay < (although I've read plenty of these in my time). let's see if I can do a little on this. Q-bus DECs compaction of Unibus. Qbus is a time multiplexed, asychronous, 16bit data and depending on age of the system 16, 18 or 22 bit address. It has termination and controlled loading to allow operation at high spped using open collector drivers. While a 16 bit bus it also supports various byte transfers. Q-bus is compact and fairly sparce in signals but supports memory, device, interrupt and DMA transfers using the bus data lines and a set of 10 control signals. There are other signals present for processor control such as RUN, PowerOK and Binit are examples. There are more pins than actual signals, some are redundant power for example. There are lines for bus mastering, DMA and interrupt grant/ack are examples. Most devices fall into several loose catagories, IO and memory. The lower 16bits are multiplexed on the bus before every transaction using the same lines data will be transferred on. Cards use BSYNC to capture address and start any bus cycle that pertains to them. Memory is fairly straight forward in that its timed off bsync and will use the other 9 signals to synchronize it's operation. Transactions will be read (word/byte) or write (word/byte). One of the characteristices of PDP-11s is they always read before write (a read modify write cycle is the normal thing). IO devices are identical to memory and by convention and use of BBS7 are located in the top page of the 32KW address space (1 11x xxx xxx xxx xxx). The remaining transacions of not are interrupts and DMA. Interrupts are posted via a request line that can be superceeded by another board physically (buswise) closer to the CPU and will be granted by the CPU to the higest(closest) requestor then and acceeding requesting modules. When an interrupt is granted the board will place a byte(7 bits lowest set to 0) VECTOR on the data bus that the processor will use as a pointer to a table in the first 512byts of ram (interrupts vector table PSW and interrupts service address is located in two words). DMA also has a grant acknowledge and positional priority. Once granted DMA may proceed with byte or word transfers of any length, though generally restricted to short bursts to avoid hogging the bus. The basic signals are: BDAL 0->15-L -L denotes active low signal BSYNC-L BBS7-L Predecoded bank 7 signal (IO bank) BAIKO-L Bus interrupt acknowledge BWTBT-L Bus Write Byte BRPLY-L Bus Cycle reply (must be supplied to continue the cycle or a bus time out error occurs) BDIN-L Bus Data IN toward CPU BDOUT-L Bus Data OUT -> to module Bus cycles have a distinct protocal (sequence) and timings. < Does this narrow it down a little? I'm sort of surprised that there isn' < nice description on the web somewhere.... Me too, though trivial it's not. I tried to avoid a description of each line as that is quite lengthly. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 07:29:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 Message-ID: <199808241229.AA13460@world.std.com> < In the case of this SMS-1000 and it's wierd disk controller I suspect th < it might be able to emulate the RX02 on a 5.25" disk, which was the reas < for the original statement. However, I've got a second SMS-1000 that wa < Identical to this one, prior to my changing some stuff, that is differen < only in that it has a 8" drive. Maybe but more likely it was an 8" drive so that RX02 media could actually be read. The use of ODD drives to simulate a different media was common enough but it was generally done to allow use of older software that was media dependent. Allison From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 24 10:01:07 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Back from the wild east. Message-ID: <199808241245.OAA08992@marina.fth.sbs.de> So, I'm back from my short (2wks) vacation in Estonia. And I have a new Baby: A Juku. Thats an estonian Z-80 Home computer from 1990 (ok, less than 10 Years, but it fitts well here :). And in fact it is a SU computer, since estonia was still part of the SSSR at this time. Anything beside CPU and PIO ist still discrete TTL. The caracterset is a 8 bit code with ASCII in the lower 128 chars and cyrillic and special symbols in the upper 128. CUTE! I also aquired a dual FD and a _mouse_. But I miss the DOS. The previous owner tried to use all Disks in a PC :(((( THere are also no Manuals. So, if anybody knows any additional source of information, pleas give me a hint. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Mon Aug 24 07:53:36 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Lisa Tools Deserialization Message-ID: <8021320@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- You wrote: I have this document available on my website http://www.asap.net/~rbedeaux/lisa Rob Bedeaux --- end of quote --- Whew! That's far better than the 2MB pdf I put together. -- MB From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Aug 24 08:05:56 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for RT-11 (Part 2) Message-ID: <980824090556.21a00181@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Doh! Do you have any idea how stupid you just made me feel :^) Thanks, I >just copied the files to RX50. Since I couldn't get the emulator to read >the disk image I foolishly didn't consider that putr might be able to :^( Bob Supnik's emulator is a fine emulator, but it's not the same sort of all-purpose tool that PUTR is for dealing with certain file systems. >Ummm, two reasons. I'm not sure I've got the necessary hardware pieces in >the Box (would I be able to go through a printer port) You've got a console port, right? That's all you need! See ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/krt.doc for full installation instructions. > and secondly I > haven't a clue as far as Kermit is concerned. I think I've used it once or > twice to transfer data between a Honeywell Mainframe and a PC, but there > was a written reciept to follow for that. Too bad you suffered through so many years without realizing what a wonderful took Kermit is. It's available for just about every computer platform there is (or was), and can deal with communications channels that X/Y/ZMODEM will just stare blankly at (for example, one-way-at-a-time async channels common on IBM mainframes). Even better, it can be just as fast or faster than ZMODEM. I use it just about every day to move data between RT-11, RSX-11, CP/M, VMS, Unix, MS-DOS, OS/8, etc... ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 08:09:05 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Back from the wild east. Message-ID: <19980824130906.19702.qmail@hotmail.com> As usual, I am willing to decode any cyrillic for you. No, I haven't heard anything about this, but what does this thing look like? Commodoreish? >So, I'm back from my short (2wks) vacation in Estonia. >And I have a new Baby: A Juku. Thats an estonian >Z-80 Home computer from 1990 (ok, less than 10 Years, >but it fitts well here :). And in fact it is a SU computer, >since estonia was still part of the SSSR at this time. >Anything beside CPU and PIO ist still discrete TTL. The >caracterset is a 8 bit code with ASCII in the lower 128 >chars and cyrillic and special symbols in the upper 128. >CUTE! I also aquired a dual FD and a _mouse_. But I miss >the DOS. The previous owner tried to use all Disks in a >PC :(((( THere are also no Manuals. So, if anybody knows >any additional source of information, pleas give me a >hint. > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Aug 24 08:08:40 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Logical Disks and RT-11 Message-ID: <980824090840.21a00181@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >OK, it's become obvious to me that I'm not going to figure out how to >create a logical disk under RT-11. If someone would be so kind as to >explain the steps involved, I would appreciate it. Let's say you want a 2000-block logical disk, which you'll call MYLOG.DSK, and you want it mounted as LD3: .create du1:mylog.dsk[2000] .mou ld3: du1:mylog.dsk .init ld3: LD3:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y .dir ld3: 19-Aug-1998 0 Files, 0 Blocks 1986 Free blocks ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 24 08:30:21 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: PDP rescue in UK, footwork needed Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980824083021.00cbc620@pc> Subject: Re: The glorious 12th..... From: Sparky Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:43:28 +0100 Message-ID: Organization: Timber Kitchen Utensils R Us Newsgroups: demon.local On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Sparky wibbled thusly: Hmm... FUTOP :( >>:We ripped our PDP out a couple of weeks ago, when we replaced our >>:Process Control Software. I can make enquiries if you wish? >> >>Wow! That'd be brilliant (If you could) > >I'll ask around next week. Coupla calls: One of our sites still uses PDP, and our old one is being kept incase of problems. However, that site is upgrading in a few weeks. The PDP will be available in about two months, free to a good home (at least, that's what they're saying ATM), so remind me nearer the time. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Aug 24 09:10:07 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808240213.MAA26058@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <13382343816.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [KI fiche] Cool! You should be able to read the larger print with a magnifying glass and a white sheet of paper. Lay the fiche on the paper, and try using the magnifying lens. You should be able to determine at least what the fiche is for. We've a machine here at school that makes printed pages from a microfiche... Maybe, if the fiche could end up here, I could print the pages and scan them? But it's 10 cents a page, that would add up... I'll have to ask the librarian if there's a way around this. [Been there, done that, broke toes..] Been there, done that, broke ALL of my friend's toes :) ------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 24 09:04:25 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun Message-ID: <199808241417.KAA25341@charity.harvard.net> IIRC alot of companies OEMed TOPS from TOPS (the original company) then Digital once TOPS was acquired. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Francois [mailto:fauradon@pclink.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 1998 3:27 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: TOPS for PC, from sun > > > Well actually I have a SUN branded version of TOPS for the > MAC and a Centram > branded version for both the PC and the MAC. I guess it's > going from hand to > hands or maby on is a clone of the other.I haven't installed > them yet but > I'm planning on using them to hook my MACs to my PC network > with a FlashCard > on a dedicated PC.. > Francois > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit the desperately in need of update > Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel A. Seagraves > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 1:42 PM > Subject: Re: TOPS for PC, from sun > > > >If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, > >DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* > > > >(TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) > >------- > > > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 24 09:20:39 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: What I picked up from the ebay auction Message-ID: <199808241429.KAA02005@charity.harvard.net> Well, not only did I win the Ebay auction for all the 70's electronics parts (he didn't even want my winning bid), I went over this weekend to fill up my car (a 1990 Ford T-bird). I am going back to get the rest next weekend but I was able to fill my then empty trunk with 74lsxxx parts, all brand new in tubes (the guy believes there is at lease one tube of every part in the series in there). My back seat is full of 3M ribbon cable (various wire counts) and tons of din and card edge connectors. I think I grabbed a box full of 68K and Z80 processors also. What I'm nabbing next week; A NEC Spinwriter with a bunch of spindles, a box full of 10MB Priam hard drives, a box full of Shugart 8" floppy drives, more din and card edge connectors and (if I can get Allison's help) a 19" 6-foot rack :) Once I can go thru and sort all this stuff, I'll probably be offering them online for people that need them. I'll probably just charge for shipping, maybe a meager fee to offset the cost of storage. Tony From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 24 12:25:01 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Back from the wild east. Message-ID: <199808241508.RAA18994@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>So, I'm back from my short (2wks) vacation in Estonia. >>And I have a new Baby: A Juku. Thats an estonian >>Z-80 Home computer from 1990 (ok, less than 10 Years, >>but it fitts well here :). And in fact it is a SU computer, >>since estonia was still part of the SSSR at this time. >>Anything beside CPU and PIO ist still discrete TTL. The >>caracterset is a 8 bit code with ASCII in the lower 128 >>chars and cyrillic and special symbols in the upper 128. >>CUTE! I also aquired a dual FD and a _mouse_. But I miss >>the DOS. The previous owner tried to use all Disks in a >>PC :(((( THere are also no Manuals. So, if anybody knows >>any additional source of information, pleas give me a >>hint. > As usual, I am willing to decode any cyrillic for you. Oh, decoding cyrillic istn't a real problem - it just consumes a lot of processing time for my biodynamic interpreter :) > No, I haven't heard anything about this, but what does > this thing look like? Commodoreish? Hmm - a bit - think of a Dragon after kissed by a steam roller. It's a 4 MHz Z80A clone with 16 KB dyn mem (max 64 kb), 6 kb video mem (afaI can guess) and integrated FD controller. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 24 11:21:09 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun In-Reply-To: <199808241417.KAA25341@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 24, 98 10:04:25 am Message-ID: <199808241621.MAA01607@shell.monmouth.com> > > IIRC alot of companies OEMed TOPS from TOPS (the original company) then > Digital once TOPS was acquired. > > Tony > TOPS (the PC<-> Apple network software) was not acquired from d|i|g|i|t|a|l -- it was picked up by Sun along with 10-NET and promptly jetisonned as soon as Microsoft killed the Peer-to-Peer market for Dos/Windows networking with Windows For Workgroups. I've got a collection of DOS/Windows networks (10Net, Netware Light, Personal Netware) and they were steamrollered by WfW when Microsoft rolled the TCP/IP and into it and made it a high-memory package using Winsock and DLL's. Bill From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 11:57:37 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Logical Disks and RT-11 Message-ID: <199808241657.AA22833@world.std.com> To create a logical disk: create file.dsk/alloc:494. (rx01 size, RX02=988, rx50=800) mount ld0 file.dsk dk (mount as LD0, assign ld0 dk) init/bad/noq dk: (impose a directory structure) now proceed to use ld0 as you would any other device... If you already have a disk image with stuff in it.. mount ld0 image.dsk dk (mount existing file as ld0, assign ld0 dk) dir (get a directory) Again, just use it as you would any other disk volume. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 12:25:57 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C551@NT486> >Well, it says that it is a full networking OS that allows mac's and PC's to communicate, etc. seems somewhat along the lines of what francois has. also has a "secret proprietary etc etc" program disk called "RTERM", circa 1985. Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, > DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* > > (TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) > ------- Seems there is some confusion here. TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 were DEC operating systems for the 36-bit DEC-10 and DEC-20 mainframes, circa late 60's (DEC-10) thru late 70's (DEC-20). TOPS dies when the VAX came out, thought there are vestiges left in VMS. The TOPS networking cards were essentially Appletalk cards for PCs. It was a low speed network using a Z80 SIO (or SCC?) serial USART and RS-422 drivers instead of RS-232. IIRC the speed was around 230Kbits/second (I have one in the back of a closet, haven't looked at it for a while). No relation to the TOPS operating system at all. Jack Peacock From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 12:59:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Switched on Bach Message-ID: This is an old auction on eBay I happened to run across. Perhaps this item is still available: MOOG Walter Carlos- Switched on Bach Mint Item #23979261 The auction ended with no bids. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 13:01:25 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Another Carlos album Message-ID: One more. Sorry. MOOG Walter Carlos- the well tempered synth Item #23980914 Ebay. Again, no bids. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From fauradon at pclink.com Mon Aug 24 13:10:51 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun Message-ID: <000a01bdcf8a$87bf7570$1f6e0181@fauradon> Right but the original post was about the PC-MAC network and not the DEC OS thus the path the thread is taking. There was also a TOPS for UNIX (Sun 386). Also TOPS could work through Ethernet (used mostly when UNIX was involved) wich would allow for more that just PC-MAC networks. According to the Book "Networking with TOPS" the original version was made by SUN. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Peacock To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 12:18 PM Subject: RE: TOPS for PC, from sun > >>Well, it says that it is a full networking OS that allows mac's and >PC's >to communicate, etc. seems somewhat along the lines of what francois >has. also has a "secret proprietary etc etc" program disk called >"RTERM", circa 1985. > >Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >> >> If it is what I immediately thought it was, (Which it can't be, >> DEC owned TOPS, not Sun...) *I WANT A COPY!* >> >> (TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) >> ------- > >Seems there is some confusion here. TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 were DEC >operating systems for the 36-bit DEC-10 and DEC-20 mainframes, circa >late 60's (DEC-10) thru late 70's (DEC-20). TOPS dies when the VAX came >out, thought there are vestiges left in VMS. > >The TOPS networking cards were essentially Appletalk cards for PCs. It >was a low speed network using a Z80 SIO (or SCC?) serial USART and >RS-422 drivers instead of RS-232. IIRC the speed was around >230Kbits/second (I have one in the back of a closet, haven't looked at >it for a while). No relation to the TOPS operating system at all. > Jack Peacock > From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 13:20:12 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Switched on Bach Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C552@NT486> >This is an old auction on eBay I happened to run across. Perhaps this item is still available: >MOOG Walter Carlos- Switched on Bach Mint Item #23979261 Was there a reserve? I have one too, from high school days but hardly in mint condition, it's been played many times. For the last 15 years I've used a copy on cassette I still play every few months, the 3rd Brandenburg was a favorite. I also have Switched On Bach II and Sonic Seasonings. And just to keep it on topic (a stretch), all these were popular with the late nite programming crowd before the days of timeshare, when you went down to the university computer lab room where the keypunches and chess boards were located. Jack Peacock From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 24 13:17:58 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Name this chip Message-ID: <199808241828.OAA17094@charity.harvard.net> It's a really wacky IC. It's a 68 pin package. Looks kinda like this | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-----------------------------------------------+ | +----------+ | | +-----+ | | | | | | R | | | | +-----+ | | | | +----------+ | +-----------------------------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Both the boxes are ceramic squares (grey ceramic, like an eprom or something). The little R looks like a surface mount resistor or cap. The bigger ceramic square has: SMS300-1 0002624 001 A 7620 on it The field of the chip is white with grey zebra stripe lines running to each of the pins. On the top of the IC is screened: 00020730001C In gold and on the bottom: SMS INC 2075-0001 In black. What the heck is this thing?!?!? I know it's probably an engineering sample, but of what? Tony From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 13:45:31 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <19980824184531.10355.qmail@hotmail.com> Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was this one of the BASIC computers? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 24 13:50:10 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: <199808241828.OAA17094@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: Stop me if you've heard this one already: > In Word, type: > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. -- Doug From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Mon Aug 24 14:23:33 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: The 520 is a 68000 based GEM machine. From what I understand, it's an OK games machine and really really cool if you're heavy into MIDI. The 800XL is one of the nicer machines in the expansive Atari 8 bit line. Tony -- On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:45:31 Max Eskin wrote: > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was >this one of the BASIC computers? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 14:26:54 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > In Word, type: > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. Funny, but just a coincidence it would seem. Simply highlight "I'd" and check the thesaurus. It still says "I'll drink to that" (which is the last phrase in the list that the thesaurus comes up with for those fortunate enough to not have MS Turd anywhere near their computer). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Aug 24 14:31:42 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try also zzz then spell check it. ;) Dan On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Stop me if you've heard this one already: > > > In Word, type: > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > -- Doug > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 14:40:20 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, The Adept wrote: > Try also zzz then spell check it. ;) ??? Mine says not in dictionary. Perhaps someone added a definition to this inyour custom dictionary and fooled you :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Mon Aug 24 14:40:01 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > In Word, type: "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. Wow! At first I was ROTFLMAO. But then I found the response is the same if you give it "joe smith" ;( Oh well, still amusing (and take a look through the other suggested phrases while you're at it.) -wayne cox From adept at Mcs.Net Mon Aug 24 14:41:26 1998 From: adept at Mcs.Net (The Adept) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Make that 4 zed (zzzz) Dan On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, The Adept wrote: > Try also zzz then spell check it. ;) > > Dan > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > Stop me if you've heard this one already: > > > > > In Word, type: > > > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > > > -- Doug > > > > > > From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 24 14:49:58 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Gah! Imsai's come out of the woodwork! Message-ID: <199808241952.PAA23405@charity.harvard.net> Two, not one, two Imsai's with Imsai disk units up for auction on ebay. Our very own Bob Wood is high bidder on one. Been willin' to sacrifice alot to get one of them Imsai disk units but when one comes up on Ebay, I already spent all my budget on other crap :) Tony From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 24 15:01:12 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Anybody want this stuff? In-Reply-To: <35E0B7A5.6A2B@ibm.net> from "scottk5@ibm.net" at Aug 23, 98 08:45:25 pm Message-ID: <199808242001.QAA27013@user2.infinet.com> > > Hello All: > > I was lucky enough to buy the old building downtown where I have stored > and worked on all my old machines over the past three years... > > Also 1 non-working PET 2001. Do you have an idea of how much you want to get for this? Working PETs are going from "cart it away" to $100, depending on urgency and exact model and what the seller thinks the traffic will bear. To put it into perspective, I bought several PETs a few years back for $9 each. I am trying to arrange shipping for a 4016 for $35, and someone in Madison, WI has a PET w/printer and disk for $50 (pickup). I am a collector, not a reseller. I will not be offering this on e-Overpay. My first computer was a PET and I don't have a working 2001 anymore. :-( I do have the remnants of a C= dealer; I have parts and schematics. Your PET would be repaired if at all possible, not scrapped. I would like to give it a good home, but not go broke trying to do so. Please give me an idea of your price range. > Anyway, if you can use any of this stuff, please contact me. I don't > expect to get rich off the sales and I'd rather another collector get it > than dumpsterize it. I live in Eastern NC so factor that into the > shipping. I'm in Ohio (43202). Pre-pay or COD is fine with me, as long as know the shipping up front (I got burned on an SX-64 because the guy took it to Mailboxes, Etc. Shipping was 50% more than the price of the unit!). -ethan From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 15:15:46 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: IMSAI disks Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C554@NT486> >Two, not one, two Imsai's with Imsai disk units up for auction on ebay. Imsai disk unit as in the original 8" Calcomp floppy? Hmm, from '76? Be careful if it is, those drives had an extremely short lifespan (we experienced a 300% failure rate, every drive ordered failed, and replacements failed too). Cooling on the first Imsai floppy cabinet was completely inadequate for 8" drives, IMSAI later redesigned it. They sent us a cardboard baffle to try to get it to work but the only real solution for us was to use a different brand of 8" drive. Did anyone ever have a good experience with Calcomp floppy drives? The controller was pretty sophisticated for it's day, used a channel type design, you sent it basic info and it read the data into memory. This was pre-CP/M days, we used the floppy as a sort of fast paper tape replacement, keeping a manual directory of tracks which held code. I patched in a crude driver to the ALS-8 assembler development ROM system from Processor Tech to read/write memory blocks onto the floppy. Jack Peacock From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 24 15:16:15 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <23b7d80f.35e1ca0f@aol.com>> In a message dated 98-08-24 14:50:19 EDT, you write: << Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was this one of the BASIC computers? >> 800xl is just a 8bit atari machine. nothing really special about it although it did have some pretty good sound and graphics similar to the 2600. the 520st would be worth getting. supposedly ran a pretty good gui and is still used elsewhere. From fauradon at pclink.com Mon Aug 24 15:27:53 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:10 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> Seen at: http://www.amnewsabuse.com/aafamily.htm -Quote Honey Sit On This For A Second So I Can Adjust It: - Corvallis OR is hosting Da Vinci Days beginning Friday - a three day festival featuring a contest to see how far you can hurl an obsolete personal computer with a big wooden medieval catapult. (Jul 15 '96) -End quote I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate technology not destroy it! Francois From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 15:32:37 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, [iso-8859-1] François Auradon wrote: > -Quote > Honey Sit On This For A Second So I Can Adjust It: - Corvallis OR is hosting > Da Vinci Days beginning Friday - a three day festival featuring a contest to > see how far you can hurl an obsolete personal computer with a big wooden > medieval catapult. (Jul 15 '96) > -End quote > > I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the > enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate > technology not destroy it! I don't see any harm in it as long as the computer they hurl is a PC running Windows 98. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From william at ans.net Mon Aug 24 15:35:33 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> Message-ID: > I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the > enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate > technology not destroy it! If it is an XT, VAX, C64, Amiga, or whatever - I think humanity could spare one for a bit of fun. William Donzelli william@ans.net From cdrmool at interlog.com Mon Aug 24 15:45:42 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> Message-ID: There must be something in the air in corvallis Oregon. I've a very dear friend of over thirty years (and I'm not quit forty yet) who is computer literate ( a graphic designer) who cannot for the life of him fathom why I collect these "things". I suspect the over use of antibiotics myself :-) colan On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, [iso-8859-1] François Auradon wrote: > Seen at: http://www.amnewsabuse.com/aafamily.htm > > -Quote > Honey Sit On This For A Second So I Can Adjust It: - Corvallis OR is hosting > Da Vinci Days beginning Friday - a three day festival featuring a contest to > see how far you can hurl an obsolete personal computer with a big wooden > medieval catapult. (Jul 15 '96) > -End quote > > I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the > enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate > technology not destroy it! > > Francois > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 15:48:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Name this chip Message-ID: <199808242048.AA17159@world.std.com> < SMS300-1 < 0002624 < 001 A 7620 on it An early bipolar processor (very strange) that was often used for signal processing or stuff like hard disk controllers. Allison From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Aug 24 15:56:05 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Although I haven't witnessed this event I'm told that there was some sort of sanity filter on all objects launched. I'm hoping that included making sure that the rare machines didn't meet this fate. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > > I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the > > enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate > > technology not destroy it! > > If it is an XT, VAX, C64, Amiga, or whatever - I think humanity could > spare one for a bit of fun. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > From bobstek at ix5.ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 19:02:22 1998 From: bobstek at ix5.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 coversion from Mac XL Message-ID: <000401bdcfbb$a252a0c0$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> RE: the discussion on converting the Sun Remarketing Mac XL back to a Lisa 2 - I called Sun Remarketing and spoke with their most knowledgable Lisa person (thanks Marion!) who was less than encouraging about the project. According to him, it is not just replacing a few ROMs and PALs, and removing a transformer from the CRT yoke - it requires replacing the main logic board from an original Lisa, and unless you have a wrecked Lisa, that item may be a little hard to find. On the other hand, this group always seems to have someone who, not knowing a task was impossible, did it anyway! I you're out there and have "done it" - please make yourself known! Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of lost SOLs From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 24 16:21:10 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: The 800XL (circa 1983) is a streamlined version of the Atari 800 (circa 1979). Although the 800XL has 64K RAM standard, while the 800 could only support 48K, the 800 had an expansion bus that the 800XL lacks. The 800XL is a 1.79 MHz 6502 machine with 24K ROM including BASIC. It accepts most of the same peripherals as the 800, including software (mostly game) cartridges. It has 2 joystick ports that accept 2600-style joysticks. Floppy drives are available, which run Atari DOS. See http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/atari800XL.htm. The Atari 520ST (circa 1985) is a 16 MHz Motorola 68000-based machine that was created to compete against the Commodore Amiga (Atari almost acquired Amiga Technologies before Commodore did, and was always jealous of that fact). It indeed runs a GEM-based GUI and the TOS operating system. The STf version has an internal floppy drive, and the STfm version has a floppy drive and RF modulator. See http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/atari520stfm.htm. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:46 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Ataris Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was this one of the BASIC computers? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Aug 24 16:25:07 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 24, 98 03:40:01 pm Message-ID: <199808242125.OAA14597@goodnet.com> > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > > In Word, type: "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > Wow! At first I was ROTFLMAO. But then I found the response is the same > if you give it "joe smith" ;( Oh well, still amusing (and take a look > through the other suggested phrases while you're at it.) This isn't an easter egg at all (nor are the half-dozen "jokes" like this I've seen floating around). It's just that phrase isn't in the thesaurus so the closest thing it found alphabetically was a phrase beginning with "I'll". There is no intended meaning coorelation; because it didn't understand the meaning of the original phrase, it fell back on finding something lexicographically close rather than close in meaning. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:44:15 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <19980824214415.2975.qmail@hotmail.com> Plus consider that you could then ask for the smashed machines and restore them. THere is unlikely to be any serious damage except drives and CRTs. You could certainly scrounge the chips. >> I think we should massively e-mail their chamber of commerce about the >> enormous stupidity of that event, this is an event supposed to celebrate >> technology not destroy it! > >If it is an XT, VAX, C64, Amiga, or whatever - I think humanity could >spare one for a bit of fun. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 24 18:50:01 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Name this chip In-Reply-To: <8290@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808242157.QAA16639@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 04:48 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< SMS300-1 >< 0002624 >< 001 A 7620 on it > >An early bipolar processor (very strange) that was often used for signal >processing or stuff like hard disk controllers. > >Allison > Oh, you mean like a National 8X300? Westen digital used 8X300's for awhile on disk controllers. Alot of PC <-> Mainframe adaptors used 'em too . . . Jeff From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 17:19:08 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: IMSAI disks Message-ID: <199808242219.AA22010@world.std.com> < sent us a cardboard baffle to try to get it to work but the only real < solution for us was to use a different brand of 8" drive. Did anyone < ever have a good experience with Calcomp floppy drives? DEC used the mechanics and heads for the RX01 and RX02 disks with good results. The electronics however were DEC built. < This was pre-CP/M days, we used the floppy as a sort of fast paper tape < replacement, keeping a manual directory of tracks which held code. I < patched in a crude driver to the ALS-8 assembler development ROM system < from Processor Tech to read/write memory blocks onto the floppy. It's needs for a seperate CPU and a NEC D372 controller is familiar. The grandfather to the design was used as a proto for a NEC TECH note which I have. I used a version that for a NEC (NOT S100) PDA80 development system and it worked ok with good drives. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 17:29:11 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <19980824214415.2975.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Plus consider that you could then ask for the smashed machines and > restore them. THere is unlikely to be any serious damage except > drives and CRTs. You could certainly scrounge the chips. Max, depending on how large this catapult is, and therefore how high the object goes, an object hurling back to earth at 100MPH would certainly end up in state hardly susceptible to repair. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 17:45:27 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <19980824224527.27461.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, it'll fit into the landfill better anyway... Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? My choice would have to be an IBM PC just to vent.. > >> Plus consider that you could then ask for the smashed machines and >> restore them. THere is unlikely to be any serious damage except >> drives and CRTs. You could certainly scrounge the chips. > >Max, depending on how large this catapult is, and therefore how high the >object goes, an object hurling back to earth at 100MPH would certainly end >up in state hardly susceptible to repair. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 24 17:58:24 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <19980824224527.27461.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35E1F010.8792FA96@rain.org> Max Eskin wrote: > > Well, it'll fit into the landfill better anyway... > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? > My choice would have to be an IBM PC just to vent.. Which IBM PC? I would most likely choose a garden variety C64. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 24 18:07:54 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <9772b2f8.35e1f24c@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-24 19:01:57 EDT, you write: << Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? >> how about any of the IBM family one series? there's plenty of them and no shortage of them except for the 5155 and 5140 maybe. i'd keep those. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 24 18:13:39 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <79f0247b.35e1f3ac@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-24 19:06:08 EDT, you write: <>< > Well, it'll fit into the landfill better anyway... > > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this > > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? > > My choice would have to be an IBM PC just to vent.. >Which IBM PC? I would most likely choose a garden variety C64. >> nah, C64 isnt good enough. IBM machines are much heavier and will do more damage. From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 24 18:37:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <19980824224527.27461.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? I'd get out my best documentary camera, place an Altair on the catapult, and then film you guys trying to catch it. :-) -- Doug From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon Aug 24 17:34:38 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <79f0247b.35e1f3ac@aol.com> Message-ID: > > > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this > > > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? > > > My choice would have to be an IBM PC just to vent.. > nah, C64 isnt good enough. IBM machines are much heavier and will do more > damage. The whole exercise is such a Beavis and Butthead thing to do. It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration against a particular company for some kind of social violations, it least smashing a computer made by that company would have some kind of symbolic purpose (albeit still a negative one). But to just smash something for the hell of it. I think there's a song about smashing a "perfectly good guitar." Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff like candy or food? Ah well... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 18:53:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened > to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff > like candy or food? Rape and pillage is far greater fun. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 25 18:49:24 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <199808242354.TAA24992@gate.usaor.net> I'd have to say ANYTHING made by Toshiba - old or new. Although... it'd probably fall apart before it hits the ground.... -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Max Eskin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Shame, shame, shame > Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 6:45 PM > Well, it'll fit into the landfill better anyway... Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? My choice would have to be an IBM PC just to vent.. > >> Plus consider that you could then ask for the smashed machines and >> restore them. THere is unlikely to be any serious damage except >> drives and CRTs. You could certainly scrounge the chips. > >Max, depending on how large this catapult is, and therefore how high the >object goes, an object hurling back to earth at 100MPH would certainly end >up in state hardly susceptible to repair. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Mon Aug 24 19:01:58 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > The whole exercise is such a Beavis and Butthead thing to do. Perhaps. > Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened > to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff > like candy or food? I prefer celebrating in this way, too. However, as a sysadmin, every so often I feel the primal urge to "get even" with the machines that are a constant pain in my arse. Disassembling a semi-functional Wang PC with a splitting maul is very cathartic when things get to that point. Plus it helps keep me from feeling like I need to take it out on my users. ok r. From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 19:14:20 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C556@NT486> >It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration against a particular company for some kind of social violations, it least smashing a computer made by that company would have some kind of symbolic purpose (albeit still a negative one). But to just smash something for the hell of it. How odd, seems like a natural thing to do. Many's the time I'd like to have taken the PC under my desk, loaded it into the trusty old trebuchet and slung it across the countryside. As for wanton destruction, don't knock it till you try it. Last month I had the opportunity to fire a 75mm cannon at some cars, wasted a really nice Subaru. Then I got to watch as the rest of the cars were strafed by a .50 Browning from a helicopter. It's a great feeling to watch a Lincoln being blown apart. We surely do live in the best of times. Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 19:17:19 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C557@NT486> >> Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened > to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff > like candy or food? >Rape and pillage is far greater fun. Robert Duvall said it best in Apocalypse Now: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It's the smell of...victory." In this case, victory over every bug-ridden PC ever made. Jack Peacock From peacock at simconv.com Mon Aug 24 19:19:32 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C558@NT486> >However, as a sysadmin, every so often I feel the primal urge to "get even" with the machines that are a constant pain in my arse. Disassembling a semi-functional Wang PC with a splitting maul is very cathartic when things get to that point. Does anyone still have that classic cover from an early issue of Interface Age? The one where the programmer has just buried a fire axe in an ASR-33 teletype. That's one every TTY user can identify with, watching your listing slowly crawl across the page at 10 CPS. Jack Peacock From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 19:10:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <19980825001038.18818.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with once in a while destroying a useless piece of junk, like a PC or a C64 (despite popular belief, third world countries will _not_ be better off with more computers). In general, moderated violence is vital in society, so that unmoderated violence is not as common. Singing and dancing is good too, but remember that Cain is the one who was a vegetarian. Of course, I have no idea why people showing off technology would want to do it by smashing stuff. Ah, that's life... >The whole exercise is such a Beavis and Butthead thing to do. > >It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to >celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, >burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration >against a particular company for some kind of social violations, it least >smashing a computer made by that company would have some kind of symbolic >purpose (albeit still a negative one). But to just smash something for >the hell of it. > >I think there's a song about smashing a "perfectly good guitar." > >Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened >to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff >like candy or food? > >Ah well... > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 19:13:20 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M References: <001f01bdcf6f$6ed7d540$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> Message-ID: <35E201A0.D2DDBC82@cnct.com> Bob Stek wrote: > > Allison - > > IIRC, you were about to write some code to hook up one of these > parallel-IDE HD kits to a CP/M machine with an EPP. Could this be made into > a more generic project to allow file transfer over any CP/M parallel port? > I for one would like to be able to transfer CP/M files from a variety of old > systems to a portable IDE drive which could also be read on my PC in order > to make archival copies of software for CD-ROMs. And I think there would be > other interested parties as well. Problem is that most of the older 8-bit systems don't have any way to read information coming back on the parallel port -- at best, it would involve using some of the status lines instead of data lines, which IIRC is the way Laplink used to use the parallel ports before EPP. And all by itself, that would probably involve writing a different chunk of BIOS interface for each brand of system, as there was some variation in how the interface was used from one manufacturer to another. It would probably be easier to build a ST-506 (or SASI) hardware (with firmware) adapter to IDE than to do the work to adapt uni-directional parallel ports. (For instance, those drives don't work well with old-style IBM parallel ports in my experience -- I have not been able to connect my Zip drives to my ancient Heath, my Tandy 1000 TL/2 or my AT -- though the software tries its best before it tells me to give up -- and I _have_ used Zip drives successfully on 386's and such that I _know_ predate EPP). (Then again, Allison's a lot smarter than I am and possibly a bit more stubborn -- I tend to stop banging my head against a brick wall when I've barely reached the empty space in the cinderblock). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Aug 24 19:12:16 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808241229.AA12336@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808250012.KAA30645@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 08:29 AM 24-08-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: >let's see if I can do a little on this. Thanks, that's about the sort of detail I needed (I assume that was just written from memory).... One question, what's the difference between the AB and CD slots in the backplane? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Aug 24 19:15:34 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <13382343816.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <199808240213.MAA26058@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <199808250015.KAA30608@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 07:10 AM 24-08-98 -0700, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >We've a machine here at school that makes printed pages from a microfiche... >Maybe, if the fiche could end up here, I could print the pages and scan them? >But it's 10 cents a page, that would add up... I'll have to ask the librarian >if there's a way around this. I should warn you all that there's lots of fiche in my cupboard. Give a take a few mm, there's about 1m worth (approx 1 yard for those not yet assimilated :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Aug 24 19:19:43 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Switched on Bach Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980825101930.00d307e0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 11:20 AM 24-08-98 -0700, Jack Peacock wrote: >>This is an old auction on eBay I happened to run across. Perhaps this >item is still available: > >>MOOG Walter Carlos- Switched on Bach Mint Item #23979261 > >Was there a reserve? I have one too, from high school days but hardly >in mint condition, it's been played many times. For the last 15 years >I've used a copy on cassette I still play every few months, the 3rd >Brandenburg was a favorite. Well it (and a lot of Carlos' other works are available on CD). I used to use this sort of music to program to, but I'm more into the original arrangements for programming now (not that I do a lot at the moment, but there is this nice program I want to write for work that could end up written in BCPL for old time's sake :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 19:29:42 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808250029.AA26990@world.std.com> Huw Davies wrote: >One question, what's the difference between the AB and CD slots in the >backplane? On *some* backplanes, there is no difference. A dual-high board could be plugged into the CD side just was successfully as in the AB side. In other backplanes, the AB side is the Qbus side, and the CD side is set to connect adjacent boards so that they can communicate (such as the VSV11, the RLV11, and the 11/83 and its PMI memory). In yet other backplanes, you find that it is Qbus in the AB slots and CD bus in the CD slots for part of the backplane (BA23 = three slots, BA123 = 4 slots) and then it switches to Qbus in both the AB and the CD sides. Bottom line -- make sure you know what backplane you are plugging boards into before you do so. Also, make sure that quad-high options which can plug into both Q/CD and Q/Q have the CD jumpers on the board set correctly. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Aug 24 19:02:17 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Strange MITS ad. Message-ID: <005a01bdcfc0$40ed35c0$da75fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: While in the process of examining my old P-E and R-E magazines, I came across an ad for MITS from mid-1974. The ad was for a 4-channel digital handheld memory scope (model MS416) for $189. It seems to be a simple digital logic analyzer. Does any one have info on this? If anyone's interested, I'll post the picture. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 17:08:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: IMSAI disks In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C554@NT486> from "Jack Peacock" at Aug 24, 98 01:15:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 567 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980824/87122d17/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 17:09:17 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 coversion from Mac XL In-Reply-To: <000401bdcfbb$a252a0c0$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> from "Bob Stek" at Aug 24, 98 05:02:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980824/850717d3/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 24 19:51:19 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Strange MITS ad. In-Reply-To: <005a01bdcfc0$40ed35c0$da75fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > While in the process of examining my old P-E and R-E magazines, I came > across an ad for MITS from mid-1974. The ad was for a 4-channel digital > handheld memory scope (model MS416) for $189. It seems to be a simple > digital logic analyzer. I think Dave mentioned that ad a few days ago, and I've seen one too. MITS made a bunch of other stuff before they made the Altair. Stan Veit tells the story about MITS and the Altair in his book "History of the Personal Computer." He mentions that Roberts had done a "built your own calculator" project for P-E. Anybody know which issue that was? -- Doug From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 19:57:00 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: Message-ID: <35E20BDC.75466760@cnct.com> R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > > The whole exercise is such a Beavis and Butthead thing to do. > > Perhaps. > > > Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened > > to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff > > like candy or food? > > I prefer celebrating in this way, too. > > However, as a sysadmin, every so often I feel the primal urge to "get > even" with the machines that are a constant pain in my arse. Disassembling > a semi-functional Wang PC with a splitting maul is very cathartic when > things get to that point. > > Plus it helps keep me from feeling like I need to take it out on my users. > > ok > r. Eh. There's always more users where they came from. (The fifth circle of Hell, if I recall my Dante correctly). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 20:04:06 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: Message-ID: <35E20D86.9A45D34D@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > > > Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened > > to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff > > like candy or food? > > Rape and pillage is far greater fun. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com But always remember to finish the raping and pillaging _before_ the burning. And try to get the rest of the longship crew to remember it as well. (I've used a worn-out Compaq [that never worked right from birth] as a rifle target -- an old luggable -- putting a .357 round from the Marlin 1894CS lever-action carbine through the 9" tube was so incredibly cathartic). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 20:12:01 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Name this chip Message-ID: <199808250112.AA05022@world.std.com> < Oh, you mean like a National 8X300? No national 8x300 was the second source. ;) SMS was the creator. An 8bitter design for DSP at better than 6mhz throughput. Very non-Von machine with very seperate instruction and data paths. < Westen digital used 8X300's for awhile on disk controllers. < Alot of PC <-> Mainframe adaptors used 'em too . . . Yep. Allison From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 20:14:12 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <19980825001038.18818.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35E20FE4.CD626102@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > Well, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with once in a while > destroying a useless piece of junk, like a PC or a C64 (despite > popular belief, third world countries will _not_ be better off with > more computers). In general, moderated violence is vital in society, > so that unmoderated violence is not as common. Singing and dancing > is good too, but remember that Cain is the one who was a vegetarian. > Of course, I have no idea why people showing off technology would > want to do it by smashing stuff. Ah, that's life... Yeah, that's something I always had a problem with, the idea that vegetarians are peaceful and meat-eaters are violent without cause. Well, my ancestors labored for literally millions of years to get me to the top of the food chain and I will not waste their effort. Of course, that's with animals, who (despite PETA) have no rights. As a proper libertarian, I can never initiate force (or fraud) against another person. Though if force is initiated against me, I am justified in responding with whatever is required. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 20:13:37 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Tips needed to repair Apple color composite monitor Message-ID: I just bought an Apple color composite monitor that needs some work. It comes on fine, and the screen goes to a bright white if I turn up the brightness. When I plug it into the computer the picture doesn't change a lick. I tried messing with all the settings to no avail. The picture stays a field of white. Any tips on how to proceed diagnosing this thing? I've got it opened up, the digital VOM is on and the soldering iron is hot. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Aug 24 20:22:37 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> References: <001e01bdcf9d$acd4bc40$1f6e0181@fauradon> Message-ID: <360010b8.803089201@insight> It'd be more fun if they would stake out some IBM lawyers in a distant field as targets. Or maybe Compaq executives. Of course, then some killjoy like me would load up an ES-9000 and take all the fun out of it. Maybe they could award points for hitting a given sales exec with the appropriate brand of computer. (Anthony - how about raping _in_costume_ while dancing?) "Oooohhh - I'd *hate* to be pillaged!" - The Pirate Movie -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 21:26:10 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Logical Disks and RT-11 In-Reply-To: <199808241657.AA22833@world.std.com> Message-ID: Thanks Megan and Tim! I'd messed up on the create apparently, and as a result it wouldn't let me initialize it. I first created it last night as a 1 block file, then increased it's size, it didn't like that. But I'm rolling now! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 25 20:30:54 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <199808250136.VAA17257@gate.usaor.net> > Yeah, that's something I always had a problem with, the idea that > vegetarians are peaceful and meat-eaters are violent without cause. > Well, my ancestors labored for literally millions of years to get > me to the top of the food chain and I will not waste their effort. > > Of course, that's with animals, who (despite PETA) have no rights. > As a proper libertarian, I can never initiate force (or fraud) > against another person. Though if force is initiated against me, I > am justified in responding with whatever is required. >Department? Does that mean that if someone at a hamfest threatened you with an IBM XT that you'd nail 'em with a C=64 ? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Aug 24 20:38:58 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <35E20FE4.CD626102@cnct.com> References: <19980825001038.18818.qmail@hotmail.com> <35E20FE4.CD626102@cnct.com> Message-ID: <36021452.804011577@insight> On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:14:12 -0400, Ward wrote: >Well, my ancestors labored for literally millions of years to get >me to the top of the food chain and I will not waste their effort. > Actually, that was an accidental side-effect of trying to survive. We've outgrown the need for that now. >Of course, that's with animals, who (despite PETA) have no rights. >As a proper libertarian, I can never initiate force (or fraud) >against another person. Though if force is initiated against me, I >am justified in responding with whatever is required. What if an outraged libertarian PETA member destroys your barbecue with a catapult-launched Packard-Bell 486? (Seriously, though; how can you be a libertarian and condemn the freedom of others to protect animals from pain and suffering?) -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 24 20:38:39 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <79f0247b.35e1f3ac@aol.com> Message-ID: <35E2159F.BE9B9F51@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-08-24 19:06:08 EDT, you write: > > >Which IBM PC? I would most likely choose a garden variety C64. >> > > nah, C64 isnt good enough. IBM machines are much heavier and will do more > damage. But C64s are still a dime a dozen (if that high) while there are so many flavors of the IBM that someone could actually use one of the less common ones thinking they are junk. The PC with 16K of soldered in RAM comes immeadiately to mind. Something that I don't *think* will ever become a real collectable would be the Wang PC, and that has plenty of weight to it. Or (running and ducking) what about a PDP-8 :)? From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 24 21:44:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Ataris In-Reply-To: <19980824184531.10355.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was >this one of the BASIC computers? Not sure about the 800XL, I've never gotten any of my 8-bit Atari's up and running. I've got a 520ST, which is unfortuanatly missing the powersupply for the floppy drive, and a TT030, both of which are TOS based systems. TOS and GEM are related. It's actually a VERY cool system as the entire OS, which is a GUI, is in ROM. However, it is a single task system, and in my not so humble opinion the interface sucks. Still I think they are VERY COOL! I know saying it sucks, and saying it's cool doesn't make a lot of sense :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Mon Aug 24 20:55:15 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 conversion from Mac XL Message-ID: <8044546@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > RE: the discussion on converting the Sun Remarketing Mac XL back to a Lisa > 2 - I called Sun Remarketing and spoke with their most knowledgable Lisa > person (thanks Marion!) who was less than encouraging about the project. > According to him, it is not just replacing a few ROMs and PALs, and removing > a transformer from the CRT yoke - it requires replacing the main logic board > from an original Lisa, and unless you have a wrecked Lisa, that item may be > a little hard to find. I thought the only difference between the logic boards was the PROMs/PALs. Of course, not owning a Lisa, I can't be sure about this, alas... --- end of quote --- This is what I've heard, too. In fact, one of the newer Lisa gizmos sold by Dafax is a "ROM switcher" so you can use both the original Lisa H-roms and the modification 3A-roms without further tinkering. (I guess you'd just put up with oval circles and whatnot in Mac apps, since the ROM switcher doesn't do squat about changing the video.) All these repair manuals say "hang onto your old ROMS so you can run Lisa stuff in the future" which seems to indicate that it's feasible to revert the change. ??? -- MB From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 19:52:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <19980824224527.27461.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 24, 98 03:45:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 522 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/a1128e17/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 19:58:42 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Aug 24, 98 08:01:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/e5b3e4ce/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 20:04:15 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M In-Reply-To: <35E201A0.D2DDBC82@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 24, 98 08:13:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 979 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/4a3f3e50/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 20:05:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C558@NT486> from "Jack Peacock" at Aug 24, 98 05:19:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/b0a93bf8/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Aug 24 21:02:55 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980824152724.78dfb98e@ricochet.net> At 11:45 AM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote: >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was >this one of the BASIC computers? 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac Plus or so. 512K RAM, (unless expanded) 68000 CPU. What it does have that other machines in the same class (early Mac's, early Amigas) don't have is built-in MIDI ports for connecting to musical keyboards and synthesizers. That's what I (would) use in my studio (if I had it all set up) for composition and sequencing. (Doncha just hate moving?) The 800XL is an updated version of the venerable 800. Has BASIC built-in and only one cartridge. Nice machine. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 24 21:04:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:11 2005 Subject: Tips needed to repair Apple color composite monitor In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 24, 98 06:13:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1473 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/fa6d85ea/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 21:13:43 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <19980825001038.18818.qmail@hotmail.com> <35E20FE4.CD626102@cnct.com> <36021452.804011577@insight> Message-ID: <35E21DD7.E7683D3C@cnct.com> Bill Richman wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:14:12 -0400, Ward wrote: > > >Well, my ancestors labored for literally millions of years to get > >me to the top of the food chain and I will not waste their effort. > > > Actually, that was an accidental side-effect of trying to survive. > We've outgrown the need for that now. What you mean "we", paleface? I've had tofu. I prefer pork. Or beef or mutton or venison or for that matter dog. > >Of course, that's with animals, who (despite PETA) have no rights. > >As a proper libertarian, I can never initiate force (or fraud) > >against another person. Though if force is initiated against me, I > >am justified in responding with whatever is required. > > What if an outraged libertarian PETA member destroys your barbecue > with a catapult-launched Packard-Bell 486? (Seriously, though; how > can you be a libertarian and condemn the freedom of others to protect > animals from pain and suffering?) Then that person is _not_ a libertarian. And I don't condemn the freedom of others to protect animals _they own_ from pain and suffering. I protect the animals _I own_ from such. But initiating force to "protect" animals owned by others (or unowned) is not acceptable. This is now getting way off topic. Any who wish to debate further email me directly -- I've got more libertarian URLs and mailing list subscriptions than classic computing -- one is a hobby, the other is serious -- computers are replaceable, freedom is not. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Aug 24 21:21:52 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 24, 98 04:35:33 pm Message-ID: <199808250221.TAA18231@fraser.sfu.ca> > If it is an XT, VAX, C64, Amiga, or whatever - I think humanity could ^^^ Surely not a VAX! > spare one for a bit of fun. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 21:26:04 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris References: Message-ID: <35E220BC.F6A707F5@cnct.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > Not sure about the 800XL, I've never gotten any of my 8-bit Atari's up and > running. I've got a 520ST, which is unfortuanatly missing the powersupply > for the floppy drive, and a TT030, both of which are TOS based systems. > TOS and GEM are related. It's actually a VERY cool system as the entire > OS, which is a GUI, is in ROM. However, it is a single task system, and in > my not so humble opinion the interface sucks. Still I think they are VERY > COOL! I know saying it sucks, and saying it's cool doesn't make a lot of > sense :^) It's apparently discontinued by Microware, but for a while OS-9 (well, OS-9 68000 otherwise known as OS-K) was available for the ST systems, which _was_ truly multitasking -- and had been on any TRS-80 Color Computer (or Dragon) with 64k of RAM. I'm looking for a copy for the ST's (one 520, one 1040) that I've got, not being that big a fan of GEM though it looked _real_ good on the Tandy 2000 back in '85. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Aug 24 21:26:51 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: from "Wirehead Prime" at Aug 24, 98 05:34:38 pm Message-ID: <199808250226.TAA18738@fraser.sfu.ca> > It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to > celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, > burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration Reminds me of a recent COMDEX where participants could take a turn machine-gunning an old IBM mainframe. Pretty dumb. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 21:31:09 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris References: <3.0.16.19980824152724.78dfb98e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <35E221ED.770A7B4A@cnct.com> Uncle Roger wrote: > > At 11:45 AM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran > >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was > >this one of the BASIC computers? > > 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac Plus or so. 512K > RAM, (unless expanded) 68000 CPU. What it does have that other machines in > the same class (early Mac's, early Amigas) don't have is built-in MIDI > ports for connecting to musical keyboards and synthesizers. > > That's what I (would) use in my studio (if I had it all set up) for > composition and sequencing. (Doncha just hate moving?) Yeah, I know a number of musicians using STs in preference to more modern PC VESA/PCI sound cards -- there is some program out of Germany (dongle protected) that apparently has yet to be equalled on Wintel platforms. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Aug 24 21:33:36 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: References: <199808241828.OAA17094@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <199808250231.VAA07623@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:50:10 -0500 (CDT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Doug Yowza To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Stop me if you've heard this one already: > > > In Word, type: > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > -- Doug Oh my God!! That's hilarious!! I'm glad to see that there are some MicroSerfs that are a little less than gruntled. Easter eggs are fun. I found a couple on my Newton MP100 that are rather nifty. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 21:37:51 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: Message-ID: <35E2237F.A77F22A8@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Does anyone still have that classic cover from an early issue of > > Interface Age? The one where the programmer has just buried a fire axe > > in an ASR-33 teletype. > > Ouch!!! > > > > > That's one every TTY user can identify with, watching your listing > > slowly crawl across the page at 10 CPS. > > Not this TTY user (and for a time, an ASR33 was my only printer, and my only > serial terminal). I know that I'm the guy who'd have to fix the machine > next day, you see. And I have enough problem keeping it aligned with > undamaged original parts... My first printer was a Model 15 connected to the cassette port of a TRS-80 (Model One, but it wasn't called that yet) based on an article in Kilobaud. We could get that bugger to make sense for as many as five or six lines before it turned to gibberish. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 21:37:42 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <199808250237.AA15822@world.std.com> < > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this < > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? < < I'd get out my best documentary camera, place an Altair on the catapult < and then film you guys trying to catch it. :-) I'd want to be the one pulling the catapult release. ;) But, before I did that one it would be a TI99/4a... nice cpu hobbled by a really bad design. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 21:37:54 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808250237.AA16710@world.std.com> < Thanks, that's about the sort of detail I needed (I assume that was jus < written from memory).... mostly. < One question, what's the difference between the AB and CD slots in the < backplane? varies. There are generally two styles of cards dual width (AB) and quad width (ABCD) and two styles of backplane those that are bussed with the same signals on AB/CD pairs and those that are bussed on the AB side and the CD has a unique bussing for user configs and special use. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 21:38:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Strange MITS ad. Message-ID: <199808250238.AA17710@world.std.com> < While in the process of examining my old P-E and R-E magazines, I ca < across an ad for MITS from mid-1974. The ad was for a 4-channel digital < handheld memory scope (model MS416) for $189. It seems to be a simple < digital logic analyzer. < < Does any one have info on this? If anyone's interested, I'll post th < picture. If you dig a bit further back in the issues you find it as a project. logic analyser is far more than it was. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 21:38:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M Message-ID: <199808250238.AA18761@world.std.com> < > IIRC, you were about to write some code to hook up one of thes < > parallel-IDE HD kits to a CP/M machine with an EPP. Could this be mad < Problem is that most of the older 8-bit systems don't have any way < to read information coming back on the parallel port -- at best, it < would involve using some of the status lines instead of data lines, As I may have said off list. Not all parallel ports on CP/M systems are useable. There are many that could be configured to be usable, NS* horison, Compupro interfacer series and even the AMPROLB come to mind for this kind of hack. But the printerports as they stand on ALL CPM machines are configured very different from PCs. < manufacturer to another. It would probably be easier to build a < ST-506 (or SASI) hardware (with firmware) adapter to IDE than to ST506 to IDE???? Nah! Direct to IDE has been done already, see TCJ GIDE project. Some CPM systems can hang SCSI already, my ampro and SB180 do. < (Then again, Allison's a lot smarter than I am and possibly a bit < more stubborn -- I tend to stop banging my head against a brick wall < when I've barely reached the empty space in the cinderblock). No, I just know where the hammer and chisel are. ;) it was a speculative hack to see if I could find the data for how one of the PP adaptors actually talk... it's a big secret! Just remember a hacker never bangs their head against the wall. That's for some one in corperate to do. Allison From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 25 21:36:05 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Hard drive adapters Message-ID: <199808250241.WAA00477@gate.usaor.net> Does anyone out there know of some sort of gizmo that could be made that would convert an old RLL or MFM Hard drive to be used with a parallel interface? I've seen then for IDE, but that's it. I've got a couple of old HD's laying around that I'd like to put to use, but there's no room in any of my computers to put them. By the way, does anyone have any old Apple or TRS-80 external disk drives that they'd want to get rid of for a few bucks? I don't need the drive itself. I need the case and power supply and that's it. If they're TRS-80, I could use the drive itself, too. I'm also looking for disk-based (and tape-based) software for the TRS-80 Model III. I'm especially looking for the TRS-DOS operating system for it (floppy got ran over by an office chair *cringe*). -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 25 21:38:54 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <199808250245.WAA01266@gate.usaor.net> The only problem with the TI99/4a would be that it isn't that heavy. Something like a TRS-80 or something with a CRT would be a little bit more eventful. Not only do you get the fun, you get the fireworks, too :-) -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Shame, shame, shame > Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 10:37 PM > > But, before I did that one it would be a TI99/4a... nice cpu hobbled by a > really bad design. > > Allison > From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 24 21:51:27 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <199808250226.TAA18738@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <35E226AF.99738091@cnct.com> Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > > It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to > > celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, > > burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration > > Reminds me of a recent COMDEX where participants could take a turn > machine-gunning an old IBM mainframe. Pretty dumb. Well, COMDEX isn't usually run by the sharpest knives in the drawer. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Aug 24 22:19:53 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Strange MITS ad. Message-ID: <199808250319.UAA22070@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Hi Doug and all, At 07:51 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > >> While in the process of examining my old P-E and R-E magazines, I came >> across an ad for MITS from mid-1974. The ad was for a 4-channel digital >> handheld memory scope (model MS416) for $189. It seems to be a simple >> digital logic analyzer. > >I think Dave mentioned that ad a few days ago, and I've seen one too. >MITS made a bunch of other stuff before they made the Altair. Stan Veit >tells the story about MITS and the Altair in his book "History of the >Personal Computer." He mentions that Roberts had done a "built your own >calculator" project for P-E. Anybody know which issue that was? > >-- Doug > I don't have this issue, but the Dec. 71 index shows for the November '71 issue: "An electronic desk calculator you can build", by Roberts, page 27. Later in the Oct. -Dec. 1974 issues he had a digital logic course with a low cost terminal- 3 octal digits. In the 1974 Electronic Experimenter's Handbook, there was a 6/9/12 digit hand-held calculator by Lorinda Russell amd Bill Yates of MITS. I don't know what P.E. issue this is from. This issue also had 2 articles by Harry Garland and Roger Melen, including the "Muscle Whistler". I still have one. Later Cromemco had a similar relation with P.E. For example, in the Feb. 1976 issue was the "TV Dazzler" article. -Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 24 22:35:12 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex 286 Info Needed Message-ID: <35E230EF.1788F77E@bbtel.com> Have a Memorex Telex model B7000000 286 machine in a slim line case and a 3.5" floppy on a riser and a Quantum Prodrive 40S hard drive. As per the usual, the setup is botched and the hard disk is not recognized. I have the usual generic setup utilities but am hesitant on doingt hat since the 40S is an SCSI drive. Does anyone know if this machine is a software setup or keystroke started CMOS and where to get the setup program or what the keystroke(s) are. This is getting set up to help a homeschooling single mom out here and it would suit her need fine once I can access the setup. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 24 22:43:06 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex 286 Info Needed Message-ID: <34f9f8cc.35e232cb@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-24 23:36:05 EDT, you write: << Have a Memorex Telex model B7000000 286 machine in a slim line case and a 3.5" floppy on a riser and a Quantum Prodrive 40S hard drive. As per the usual, the setup is botched and the hard disk is not recognized >> I have heard of "generic" IBM AT setup programs available that might work on this and my nonfunctioning mitsulaptop 286. can anyone provide web sources for these setup programs? From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 24 22:43:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Hard drive adapters Message-ID: <199808250343.AA22654@world.std.com> < Does anyone out there know of some sort of gizmo that could be made tha < would convert an old RLL or MFM Hard drive to be used with a parallel < interface? I've seen then for IDE, but that's it. I've got a couple o < old HD's laying around that I'd like to put to use, but there's no room < any of my computers to put them. Parallel interface on what? PCs are the only ones you can count on for a consistant (sorta) interface. Few others are similar. To go from parallel (assuming it's bidirectional) you would need something like a WD1002HDO adaptor and some custom logic and software. VERY NON TRIVIAL! It would be a fair amount of proframming effort and hhardware to pull it together. < By the way, does anyone have any old Apple or TRS-80 external disk drive < that they'd want to get rid of for a few bucks? I don't need the drive < itself. I need the case and power supply and that's it. If they're < TRS-80, I could use the drive itself, too. Apple and trs80 drives are not interchangeable though the case/PS would be. I think I still have one with a drive. Allison From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 24 22:56:12 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex 286 Info Needed References: <34f9f8cc.35e232cb@aol.com> Message-ID: <35E235DC.A1B01786@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I have heard of "generic" IBM AT setup programs available that might work on > this and my nonfunctioning mitsulaptop 286. can anyone provide web sources for > these setup programs? One of the generic setup programs is gsetup31 and a quick search on Alta Vista gave several sites where it can be found including the Simtel site and mirrors. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Aug 24 23:36:24 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808250237.AA16710@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808250436.OAA32356@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 10:37 PM 24-08-98 -0400, Allison J Parent wrote: >< One question, what's the difference between the AB and CD slots in the >< backplane? > >varies. There are generally two styles of cards dual width (AB) and quad >width (ABCD) and two styles of backplane those that are bussed with the >same signals on AB/CD pairs and those that are bussed on the AB side and >the CD has a unique bussing for user configs and special use. Thanks again. This is starting to make sense - probably indicates that I'm taking too much caffeine and not sleeping :-) Don't you just love 40 hour weeks (just that they shouldn't start Saturday and finish Monday, with the rest of the week to come...). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Aug 24 23:32:52 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: References: <19980824214415.2975.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980824213252.03751140@agora.rdrop.com> At 03:29 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Max, depending on how large this catapult is, and therefore how high the >object goes, an object hurling back to earth at 100MPH would certainly end >up in state hardly susceptible to repair. Just for accuracy sake, they fling using a trebuchet (sp?), not a catapult. Lest my SCA associates get their mail in a bunch... B^} (also; I've not made it down to monitor the goings on either...) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Aug 24 23:35:09 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Floats (was: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: References: <79f0247b.35e1f3ac@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980824213509.037f6440@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:34 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened >to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff >like candy or food? > >Ah well... Blame the lawyers and the liabililty laws... (from a one time float builder and one who remembers when it was actually fun to be in a parade) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Aug 24 23:41:40 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 conversion from Mac XL In-Reply-To: <8044546@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980824214140.03816c70@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:55 PM 8/24/98 EDT, it was scrawled... ... All these repair manuals say "hang onto your old ROMS so you can run Lisa stuff in the future" which seems to indicate that it's feasible to revert the change. ??? Its been a long time since I did a conversion, (back when I worked on Apple stuff all of the time) but I don't recall anything beyond the chip swaps and realigning of the monitor... (but I forget things) And... while we are on the subject, in a recently acquired pile I found a large (ok, reasonable) stack of chips that are marked as original LISA parts from LISA to MacXL conversions. So if anyone is in need of these parts... (and does anyone have the Apple part numbers of the original parts so I can verify them?) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 24 23:58:48 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > I find it better to get even with the machine by making it do what I want > anyway. Even if it involves soldering in a dozen more chips and stringing > kludge-wires all over the place. If I've done that, I really feel I've > beaten the machine. Well, by doing this, you've really defeated the mediocre designer that produced the product. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 00:21:08 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Tips needed to repair Apple color composite monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Excellent. That means (almost certainly) that the CRT and flyback are > fine. So the fault is likely to be fixable... > BTW, is it the day for finding monitors? I found the original Gemini > monitor (greenscreen) for the Galaxy 2 I got last week. It doesn't work > yet, but I'll fix it. These monitors are becoming increasingly easier to find, which is a good thing because they are nice color monitors for any Apple ][ (and ///). I got this one for $10. If I knew it wasn't working I would've left it behind, but I plugged it in and saw video so I figured it was fine. > OK, a problem in the video path. Now, it's composite, so there's an NTSC > decoder, right? And it's likely to be a single chip. Look for a crystal > (3.58MHz, most likely) and find the chip near it. Now look for data on > that (it's probably used in TVs as well - identify who really made the > monitor (FCC id?), and look at some Sams Photofacts or whatever). FCC ID: BCG966A2M2056 The "A2M2056" leads me to believe this was an Apple manufactured monitor since that is also the Apple model number for this monitor. I'm disassembling the monitor now so I can pull the circuit board out and get a better look. I've located a 42-pin chip (Toshiba TA7644BP) which is most likely the decoder. I bet I have a Toshiba data book but its buried in one of the many boxes of books. > Now start tracing signals. Is the chip getting power? Is the video input > getting to it? Is the oscillator running (check with a 'scope). What are > the outputs doing? What about the video output transistors (on the CRT > baseboard?) Do the voltages there look sensible? Well, the VOM batteries up and died and I don't have a scope. I'll get some batteries and check what I can and report back. Luckily I have another one of these monitors so I have a reference for normal. I've been looking for a nice scope at one of the many local surplus shops but so far the ones I've found have all been gutted. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 00:22:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <35E21DD7.E7683D3C@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Then that person is _not_ a libertarian. And I don't condemn the > freedom of others to protect animals _they own_ from pain and > suffering. I protect the animals _I own_ from such. But > initiating force to "protect" animals owned by others (or unowned) > is not acceptable. Can you really "own" another living being? Anyone, as much as I agree and disagree with both of you, this topic is noise for this list. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From bede0005 at tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 25 00:21:55 1998 From: bede0005 at tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 conversion from Mac XL In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980824214140.03816c70@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 00:44:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <199808250226.TAA18738@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to > > celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, > > burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration > > Reminds me of a recent COMDEX where participants could take a turn > machine-gunning an old IBM mainframe. Pretty dumb. Sad. That was probably perpetrated by those Israeli guys in Las Vegas who rent out machine guns for an hour or whatnot so you can blast away at stuff. I'm not kidding, this place exists. Northwest of the strip I think. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 00:48:41 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <199808250237.AA15822@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > < > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this > < > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? > < > < I'd get out my best documentary camera, place an Altair on the catapult > < and then film you guys trying to catch it. :-) > > I'd want to be the one pulling the catapult release. ;) If I were the enterprising event coordinator, and the computer to be launched was an Altair, I would auction the privelege to pull the catapult release on eBay. I might be able to pull in $12,100. > But, before I did that one it would be a TI99/4a... nice cpu hobbled by a > really bad design. Why take it out on the computers? They're innocent parties in all this. Go after the designers. I'd elect to put Bill Gates in there and launch his ass into the next county. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 25 01:11:22 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 24, 98 10:44:07 pm Message-ID: <199808250611.AAA22978@calico.litterbox.com> Um... I fail to see what is wrong with renting out machineguns, folks. There's a place that does it here in Colorado too. Haven't tried it yet. It's not like they're letting you take the thing home. :) And what machine would I lob into the next county? if I could afford it, the PC on my desk, modern, state of the art more or less - on it's 5th power supply and second case. Watching it splatter would be VERY cathartic. So would spraying it with machinegun bullets. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 25 01:20:02 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980824152724.78dfb98e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808251021.GAA16409@smtp.interlog.com> On 24 Aug 98 at 21:02, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 11:45 AM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote: > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran > >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was > >this one of the BASIC computers? > > 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac Plus or so. Not to start a flame-war or anything but I have a 4 meg Mac+ and there's no way it is the equivalent of an ST. The only thing they had in common was the 68000 processor. In productivity applications, games, music programs, graphics, and ease of use it is vastly superior. The proper comparison would be the Amiga, which excelled in graphics versus the ST which excelled in music. Their capabilities IMHO exceeded the later 386 and with the various add-ons is still my machine of choice when not on the net. It's just a pleasure to use. > 512K RAM, (unless expanded) 68000 CPU. Of course very few ST users use the unexpanded ST much less the early SS FDDs. And unlike MSDOS you can actually use that memory without workarounds. With an adapter plug it uses SCSI with all the various SCSI devices. HDD, scanners, zip disks, CDRom, and there are also various graphic cards and accellerators. There are net programs now also but the earlier versions were problematic and I use this 486dx100 as my dedicated inet mchn. But when I'm not sussing out some new acquisition I'm on the ST. > What it does have that other machines in > the same class (early Mac's, early Amigas) don't have is built-in MIDI > ports for connecting to musical keyboards and synthesizers. > > That's what I (would) use in my studio (if I had it all set up) for > composition and sequencing. (Doncha just hate moving?) > I have friends that use it in live performance and it is still used extensively in studios, especially in Europe, tho the Atari Falcon or one of it's clones are now preferred because of thier built-in DTD capabilities. > The 800XL is an updated version of the venerable 800. Has BASIC built-in > and only one cartridge. Nice machine. > There's a local BBS that uses 8-bit Ataris he even has an Inet feed. BTW, I read somewhere that the ST prg. Fastcopy Pro could format Rainbow RX50 disks. It can format SS, various sector sizes,etc. You'd have to use a 5 1/4 fdd of course. Anyone tried this ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 25 01:20:03 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris In-Reply-To: <35E221ED.770A7B4A@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199808251021.GAA16417@smtp.interlog.com> On 24 Aug 98 at 22:31, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Uncle Roger wrote: > > > > At 11:45 AM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote: > > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran > > >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was > > >this one of the BASIC computers? > > > > 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac Plus or so. 512K > > RAM, (unless expanded) 68000 CPU. What it does have that other machines in > > the same class (early Mac's, early Amigas) don't have is built-in MIDI > > ports for connecting to musical keyboards and synthesizers. > > > > That's what I (would) use in my studio (if I had it all set up) for > > composition and sequencing. (Doncha just hate moving?) > > Yeah, I know a number of musicians using STs in preference to more > modern PC VESA/PCI sound cards -- there is some program out of > Germany (dongle protected) that apparently has yet to be equalled on > Wintel platforms. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "Cubase" from Steinbergs. Another excellent one is "Notator" used by French performer Michel Jarre among others on his STs. Cubase has been ported to Mac and PCs IIRC but most prefer it on the Atari. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 25 01:20:01 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris In-Reply-To: References: <19980824184531.10355.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199808251021.GAA16421@smtp.interlog.com> On 24 Aug 98 at 18:44, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, the ST ran > >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was > >this one of the BASIC computers? > > Not sure about the 800XL, I've never gotten any of my 8-bit Atari's up and > running. I've got a 520ST, which is unfortuanatly missing the powersupply > for the floppy drive, and a TT030, both of which are TOS based systems. > TOS and GEM are related. It's actually a VERY cool system as the entire > OS, which is a GUI, is in ROM. However, it is a single task system, and in > my not so humble opinion the interface sucks. Still I think they are VERY > COOL! I know saying it sucks, and saying it's cool doesn't make a lot of > sense :^) > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ There are several multi-tasking systems for the ST. One is from Gribnif Software called "Geneva" and another excellent one from Germany "Magic" which replaces TOS. There is also a Linux port for the ST, "Linun 68" The Atari interface (ASCSI ? ) sucks only because it was Atari's attempt to lock it's users in to Atari peripherals. There are several adaptors to change it to SCSI. The most popular is the "LINK 2". At least you don't need a card. The TT030 is a nice machine. Fairly pricy "work station". It was supplanted by the "Falcon" which along with the MIDI also had built-in direct to disk. I don't have one (if you ever decide to get rid of it ,let me know) The 8-bit Ataris are considered by many the best of the Big 4 consumer mchns. ( Atari, Commodore, TRS COCOs, TI 99 ) which may initiate the next great computer flame-war :^)) The Atari 8-bit and CBM newsgroups are still very active. They'll be glad to help you get your 8-bits up and running. New prgms. are still being written for them by avid 8-bitters. I have C64 1541 and Atari 1050 fdds side by side with a VCR and a C64 1802 monitor stacked on top in one corner of my workbench. It's fun to play occasional 8-bit games or show off my "old" computer TV to visitors. As an old hipster I think it's cool too. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 25 07:56:41 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <9807259040.AA904075016@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Anthony Clifton wrote: > It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to > celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, > burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration > against a particular company for some kind of social violations, it least > smashing a computer made by that company would have some kind of symbolic > purpose (albeit still a negative one). But to just smash something for > the hell of it. > > I think there's a song about smashing a "perfectly good guitar." > > Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What > happened to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away > free stuff like candy or food? I was hoping not to get drawn into this somewhat strange thread, but... I agree with Anthony. (Why is smashing pottery always such a popular sideshow at the fair?) I have noticed a similar trend in other areas, such as sponsored events to raise money for charity. People always want to be sponsored to do something useless like walking 1000 miles or jumping out of an aeroplane (airplane). If it's a worthwhile cause they are supporting, I'll go ahead and sponsor them, but why can't we have sponsored events like "Pick up all the litter in the neighbourhood - sponsorship per bag collected"? The worst thing is, no-one would sponsor people to do something useful because "Aren't the council supposed to be doing it anyway? Why am I paying council tax? [Rant, Rant]" Sad, but that's human nature for you. Philip. From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Tue Aug 25 07:14:51 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 conversion from Mac XL Message-ID: <8050311@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/e8515cff/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Tue Aug 25 07:31:13 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 conversion from Mac XL Message-ID: <8050554@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Oops...next time maybe I'll notice the earlier reply. Duh... ;p -- MB From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Aug 25 08:17:35 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <19980825131736.14742.qmail@hotmail.com> I was going to suggest that but since I've never used them, I was afraid someone might like them. Why the Altair, though? How about we all pitch in and build a nuclear-powered electromagnetic mass driver to hurl the ENIAC into space (inadvertentley destroying an oncoming alien fleet and being the saviours of the world)? > >< > Here's a question: what _obsolete_ computer would you choose for this >< > miracle machine, assuming you have unlimited power? >< >< I'd get out my best documentary camera, place an Altair on the catapult >< and then film you guys trying to catch it. :-) > >I'd want to be the one pulling the catapult release. ;) > >But, before I did that one it would be a TI99/4a... nice cpu hobbled by a >really bad design. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 25 08:17:37 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Floats (was: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980824213509.037f6440@agora.rdrop.com> References: <79f0247b.35e1f3ac@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980825081737.00c2b5d0@pc> At 09:35 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Blame the lawyers and the liabililty laws... (from a one time float >builder and one who remembers when it was actually fun to be in a parade) Or maybe we could blame the people who've asked the lawyers to pursue those ridiculous cases, or the people who passed those laws... Don't blame the litigator. :-) Am I now supposed to write a pro-libertarian rant, and in the same paragraph declare this thread off-topic so as to squash subsequent discussion? This mailing-list netiquette stuff is so tricky. - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Aug 25 08:20:54 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Floats (was: Shame, shame, shame) Message-ID: <19980825132055.16215.qmail@hotmail.com> Hey, how about Soviet military parades? Best of both worlds! > >At 05:34 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened >>to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff >>like candy or food? >> >>Ah well... > >Blame the lawyers and the liabililty laws... (from a one time float >builder and one who remembers when it was actually fun to be in a parade) > >-jim > >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From homeline at ezl.com Tue Aug 25 08:47:57 1998 From: homeline at ezl.com (C. Boyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <199808251347.IAA18840@ns.ezl.com> Must unsubscribe for a week or so while my wife & I move into our new home. Has a nice BIG basement....unfinished....1950sq ft.......hmmm! Cliff Boyer Computer collector with small but growing collection! From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 25 10:54:00 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Name this chip In-Reply-To: <8324@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808251401.JAA19333@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 09:12 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< Oh, you mean like a National 8X300? > >No national 8x300 was the second source. ;) OIC. Hm, up to this point I thought it was all National's idea. Did the 8X305 belong to SMS also? Or was the enhanced chip a National invention? >SMS was the creator. An 8bitter design for DSP at better than 6mhz >throughput. Very non-Von machine with very seperate instruction and >data paths. That's a Harvard archetcture, right? Jeff From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 25 08:55:13 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: ASR-33 (was Re: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 25, 98 02:05:59 am Message-ID: <199808251355.JAA08247@user2.infinet.com> Tony writes: > > Jack Peacock writes: > > That's one every TTY user can identify with, watching your listing > > slowly crawl across the page at 10 CPS. > > Not this TTY user (and for a time, an ASR33 was my only printer, and my only > serial terminal). I know that I'm the guy who'd have to fix the machine > next day, you see. And I have enough problem keeping it aligned with > undamaged original parts... Speaking of ASR-33's, I've got one in storage that's a bit under the weather. Originally, it must have belonged to a newspaper or news service - it does not have a 20mA interface, it's got a 110 baud modem (data set) built into the pedestal, the *whole* pedestal. What's wrong with it is that many years ago, when I was much younger and much more reckless, I removed the touch tone keypad and do not have a diagram for putting one back. As it stands, I can call into it, but I can't call out of it (if plugged in, it will start up when the phone rings and turn off when a CTRL-D (a *real* End Of Text!) goes through. At one point, I was going to remove the data set and attempt to hack back in the current loop. Now, since I have a phone line simulator (8049 uP- based product of a former employer), I can rig up a current loop to RS-232 converter (got one) to a 300 baud modem, route through the C.O. simulator and "dial up" the TTY. All this, just to get a teletype on a PDP-8. Somewhere in storage, I have mechanicals on the ASR-33 itself, but not on the data set mod, especially not the keypad. Does anyone out there have any info on Western Electric touch tone keypads? ISTR that this one had more wires than a typical phone keypad of its day, say 12 instead of 8, but that is only a guess. Thanks, -ethan From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 25 09:07:55 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <199808251414.KAA08723@charity.harvard.net> > On 24 Aug 98 at 21:02, Uncle Roger wrote: > > > At 11:45 AM 8/24/98 PDT, you wrote: > > >Today I saw an Atari 5?0ST and an 800XL. As I understand, > the ST ran > > >GEM. Is this an interesting computer at all? What about the XL? Was > > >this one of the BASIC computers? > > > > 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac > Plus or so. > > Not to start a flame-war or anything but I have a 4 meg Mac+ > and there's no > way it is the equivalent of an ST. The only thing they had in > common was the > 68000 processor. In productivity applications, games, music > programs, graphics, > and ease of use it is vastly superior. The proper comparison > would be the > Amiga, which excelled in graphics versus the ST which > excelled in music. Their > capabilities IMHO exceeded the later 386 and with the various > add-ons is > still my machine of choice when not on the net. It's just a > pleasure to use. I'd like to chime in here. The Amiga was a great machine for Graphics, Video, AND music during it's time (which is still ongoing). It was very easy to attach a midi interface and there were alot of really killer sequencers available. Plus, the Amiga bore the MOD music file format! From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 25 09:38:39 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C551@NT486> Message-ID: <13382611154.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> (No relation to TOPS at all). But since I use TOPS-20 here, that was the first thing that came to mind. I know they're not related, I meant what I said as a joke. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 25 09:49:04 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13382613050.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Rape and pillage is far greater fun] Mental image: The Monty Python bit where the nerds sail a corporate building like a pirate ship... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 25 09:51:11 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13382613436.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [keep him from feeling like he has to take it out on his lusers...] Oh? I thought that's what they were here for... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 25 10:01:34 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13382615324.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Lauching Bill Gates] Mee tooo! It'd be more fun to put him in a space capsule, launch that, then open the door in orbit... *SPLATTER* (If you don't know, putting a body in a vacuum causes it to explode) ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 25 10:05:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Name this chip Message-ID: <199808251505.AA05723@world.std.com> Hm, up to this point I thought it was all National's idea. < Did the 8X305 belong to SMS also? Or was the enhanced < chip a National invention? Nope, Signetics improved it under cross license to SMS. < That's a Harvard archetcture, right? To the rest of us up here it's Hahvad. ;) Allison From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Aug 25 10:07:54 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <13382615324.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 25, 98 08:01:34 am Message-ID: <199808251507.LAA00948@shell.monmouth.com> > > [Lauching Bill Gates] > > Mee tooo! > > It'd be more fun to put him in a space capsule, launch that, then open the door in orbit... *SPLATTER* > > (If you don't know, putting a body in a vacuum causes it to explode) Nah, just sentence him to life as an admin in a Windows shop. Me, I'll take live with Vax/VMS or any Unix or RT11/RSX11/RSTS/IAS or TOPS20 or MacOS. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From scottk5 at ibm.net Tue Aug 25 10:29:49 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Anybody want this stuff? References: <199808240306.XAA15144@chmls05.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <35E2D86D.69F8@ibm.net> Jon Healey wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > I think I'd be interested in the xerox and the Amstrad. > Are they spoken for yet? > > Where are you located? I'm in NH. > Neither are claimed at the moment. In the case of the Xerox, it has a lot of documentation and will be quite heavy to ship I think. Give a couple of days to sort out the stuff and I will be back in touch with you. I am located in Rocky Mount, NC. Thanks, Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From aaronwa at telusplanet.net Tue Aug 25 10:33:29 1998 From: aaronwa at telusplanet.net (Aaron Michael Walkhouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... In-Reply-To: <35DCDE95.152E@geocities.com> Message-ID: <199808251531.IAA17358@mxu2.u.washington.edu> ' -----Original Message----- ' From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu ' [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Poesie ' Sent: August 20, 1998 2046 ' To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ' Subject: more info on systems.... ' ' inventory type stuff... But there's alot. Also a whole room full of an ' IBM 3480? mainframeish type of thing, with disk boxes etc. looks like a ' room full of washing machines... ' ' -Eric If you get a chance to look closer, see if those disk boxes (or machines) contain tape cartridges. These carts are about 4 1/4" by 5" by 1" (inches), contain 1 spool each and look like a corner has been cut off. If you find some, poke into the gear and see how many can be loaded into the racks (if you find some) If you do indeed have an IBM 3480 tape library I want it, whether or not you have any tape left. (I want to dig a really deeeeeeeeep data mine!) ;] PS: If anything has the number 3490 on it, even better! From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 10:48:27 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: more info on systems.... In-Reply-To: <199808251531.IAA17358@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Aaron Michael Walkhouse wrote: > If you get a chance to look closer, see if those disk boxes (or machines) > contain tape cartridges. > These carts are about 4 1/4" by 5" by 1" (inches), contain 1 spool each and > look like a corner has been cut off. > If you find some, poke into the gear and see how many can be loaded into the > racks (if you find some) > If you do indeed have an IBM 3480 tape library I want it, whether or not you > have any tape left. > (I want to dig a really deeeeeeeeep data mine!) ;] Ack! Finally someone who can use the hundreds upon hundreds of these data carthridges that I've been hoarding at work for years (well, one at least) in the hopes that someone, some day will speak up and say they can use them! Quick, tell me if you need them and I'll go grab them. As soon as I read your post, Murphy's Minions (the little gervils that carry out Murphy's Laws) began disposing of those carthridges. They were probably ordered to be dumpstered last week, but last time I was through there they were all over the place. HURRY! Tell me you need them! Don't let all my work be in vain. Just pay for shipping. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 10:52:03 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Message-ID: The correct way to unsubscribe is to send a message to listproc@u.washington.edu with the line below being the only one in the message: unsubscribe classiccmp Posted publicly for the benefit of all. See end of post for better instructions I got back from the listproc after my failed first attempt to explain this. On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, C. Boyer wrote: > Must unsubscribe for a week or so while my > wife & I move into our new home. > > Has a nice BIG basement....unfinished....1950sq ft.......hmmm! > > Cliff Boyer > Computer collector with small but growing collection! > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] ---- Dear user, every time you send email to list CLASSICCMP the system analyzes the first line of your message in order to catch misdirected requests. It appears that the first line in your message may have been such a request: UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP The first word, "UNSUBSCRIBE", matches one of ListProc's command words, and as a result your mail was not distributed to the list. If your intent was to send a request please resend it to the command processor listproc@u.washington.edu (not classiccmp@u.washington.edu). If your intent was to post a message to this list please rephrase the first line of your message so that it does not look like a request and resubmit it to classiccmp@u.washington.edu, and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. If you need further assistance please contact the owner(s) bcw@u.washington.edu . From peacock at simconv.com Tue Aug 25 11:17:44 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C559@NT486> From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] >Sad. That was probably perpetrated by those Israeli guys in Las Vegas who rent out machine guns for an hour or whatnot so you can blast away at stuff. I'm not kidding, this place exists. Northwest of the strip I think. There are at least two places west of the strip, Shooter Supply (the nicest one) and The Survival Store, that rent out or sponsor machine gun events. Both are close to my office. I think there are a couple more on the east side of town. These ranges are very popular with Japanese tourists. Typically they rent out Uzis, Thompsons, MACs, and the usual generic batch of 9mms. Jack Peacock From william at ans.net Tue Aug 25 11:59:15 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:12 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <199808250221.TAA18231@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: > > If it is an XT, VAX, C64, Amiga, or whatever - I think humanity could > ^^^ > Surely not a VAX! Why not? There seem to be an endless supply of VAX-11/750s out there. We can not save them all! William Donzelli william@ans.net From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 25 12:01:07 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Cheap Computing Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980825120107.00c3fe00@pc> I'm not sure if he falls under the ten-year rule, but here's a link to a columnist preaching the usefulness of "junk" computers on a regular basis: - John From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Tue Aug 25 12:02:25 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Suggested additions to PDP11 instruction set :) Message-ID: <35E2EE21.FF2726B3@joules.enterprise-plc.com> Found these amongst Linux 'fortunes': PIC Punch Invalid Card POPI Punch Operator Immediately PVLC Punch Variable Length Card RASC Read And Shred Card RPM Read Programmers Mind RSSC Reduce Speed, Step Carefully (for improved accuracy) RTAB Rewind Tape And Break RWDSK Rewind Disk RWOC Read Writing On Card SCRBL Scribble to disk (faster than a write) SLC Search for Lost Card SPSW Scramble Program Status Word SRSD Seek Record and Scar Disk STROM Store in Read Only Memory TDB Transfer and Drop Bit WBT Water Binary Tree From franke at sbs.de Tue Aug 25 14:18:45 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Fun with an image editor... Message-ID: <199808251702.TAA20186@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Know those lame "JoeBob's_Random_Browser_NOW!" buttons? > I slightly edited one (Yes, this is relevant.) > Go look at http://makoto.umtec.com > This is really interesting coming from my MicroVAX... > I think I'll do a ITS-NOW! button next, with a link to a copy of "The HACRTN"... 36 Bits Now ? Let me guess - You own one of these nice old BULL minis using 9 Bit Bytes ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 25 13:20:38 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Floats (was: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980825081737.00c2b5d0@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > At 09:35 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Blame the lawyers and the liabililty laws... (from a one time float > >builder and one who remembers when it was actually fun to be in a parade) > > Or maybe we could blame the people who've asked the lawyers to pursue > those ridiculous cases, or the people who passed those laws... Don't > blame the litigator. :-) Well, don't whitewash them either. The "ambulance chasers" are not all dead or reformed, you know." - don > Am I now supposed to write a pro-libertarian rant, and in the same > paragraph declare this thread off-topic so as to squash subsequent > discussion? This mailing-list netiquette stuff is so tricky. > > - John > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 25 13:49:58 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980825134958.00bd9570@pc> On , Michael Swaine (of Dr Dobbs early days) writes: > >When I first started writing full-time about computer >technology back in 1981, I worked with some suspicious >characters who have gone on to become legends in their own >minds. Folks like John Markoff, now holding the New York >Times to its well-known high standard of accuracy on all >topics technical, and John Dvorak, ubiquitous curmudgeon >and loose cannon on the media deck. At that time Dvorak >was launching a new column called Inside Track, and he >explained to me the hidden significance of the title: > > "On disk platters," he said, "the inside track > is the least reliable one." > >It was a very popular column. Of which ancient systems was this true? Today's CD-ROMs are the opposite, I've heard: as the head positions to the outermost area of the disc, it tends to push dust along the guides, and many CD drives accumulate a pile of dust out there, preventing it from reaching "the end." - John From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 25 13:58:24 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex update Message-ID: <35E3094F.569F3070@bbtel.com> Got it set. I got impatient and used GSETUP31 to initially set the scrambled date, time and drive types to get it to boot and found the setup program from Mem-Tel on the hard drive (duh). I copied it off for future use so if anyone needs it just ask. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From peacock at simconv.com Tue Aug 25 14:11:14 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C55A@NT486> > "On disk platters," he said, "the inside track > is the least reliable one." > This was true when drives were formatted with the same number of sectors on each track, regardless of position. Because the inner tracks had a shorter circumference, the bit density was highest on the innermost track. Now that drives are not directly addressed by cylinder/head/sector, the number of sectors can vary by track, so bit density is evenly distributed, outer tracks have more sectors than inner tracks. Where you see this limitation was on older MFM and RLL drives where the controller was not integrated onto the drive itself (pre-SCSI and pre-IDE). Jack Peacock From ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Tue Aug 25 14:29:47 1998 From: ab594 at sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (Markus Blumrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg Message-ID: <00f301bdd05f$2160bb60$b14c8bc0@mgb119> For those of us who have avoided buying this Microsoft product, would someone be kind enough to post what it actually says? From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 25 14:38:20 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex update In-Reply-To: <35E3094F.569F3070@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Got it set. I got impatient and used GSETUP31 to initially set the > scrambled date, time and drive types to get it to boot and found the > setup program from Mem-Tel on the hard drive (duh). I copied it off for > future use so if anyone needs it just ask. Russ, if the drive is really SCSI, why should you have to set a drive type? My experience has always been that it is set to 'none'. - don > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Aug 25 14:53:37 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex update Message-ID: <19980825195337.27508.qmail@hotmail.com> Speaking of Memorex-Telex, could someone please summarize their history? Just curious, always wondering. >Got it set. I got impatient and used GSETUP31 to initially set the >scrambled date, time and drive types to get it to boot and found the >setup program from Mem-Tel on the hard drive (duh). I copied it off for >future use so if anyone needs it just ask. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 15:01:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg In-Reply-To: <00f301bdd05f$2160bb60$b14c8bc0@mgb119> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Markus Blumrich wrote: > For those of us who have avoided buying this Microsoft product, would > someone be kind enough to post what it actually says? You check the thesaurus on "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead." and the last phrase the thesaurus comes up with is "I'll drink to that." Its basically a matter of poor pattern recognition. All you really have to do is highlight "I'd" to get the same results everytime. In other words, its a coincidence. You could substitute Gates' name with "Markus Blumrich" and it would come out the same way. The "zzzz" look-up apparently comes up with "sex", but not on my version for some reason. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From red at bears.org Tue Aug 25 16:41:40 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Data General Message-ID: I have recently acquired a Data General Nova and an honest-to-god Teletype---I think it's an ASR-35. My roommate is furious, but that's beside the point. The point is this machine is much older than I am; this is going to be a completely new (and fascinating) experience. I am 21 years old, and if you do the math (and if I've done the math correctly) you'll find that the Nova is 8 years older than me. I don't want to screw this up. The guy who I got it from knew a lot about it; he got it in 1982 and used it quite a lot. He told me a lot of stuff that was important, but I wasn't expecting what I got and was too overwhelmed to think to take notes. At any rate, the first thing I have to do is take an inventory, and after that I think I shall require excruciating amounts of assistence from the list making sure it's ready to be fired up (and after that, making sure I can run it properly)---but I know that you all are up to it. (: Wish me luck. ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 13:20:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: ASR-33 (was Re: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: <199808251355.JAA08247@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 25, 98 09:55:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2000 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/9c6ff019/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 13:06:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Tips needed to repair Apple color composite monitor In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 24, 98 10:21:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 579 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/02ac9322/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 12:56:05 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M In-Reply-To: <199808250238.AA18761@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 24, 98 10:38:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2159 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/fdf08497/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 17:00:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825111811.5acfe94e@ricochet.net> At 05:34 PM 8/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >It never ceases to amaze me that, when offered an opportunity to >celebrate in a positive manner, groups of people will choose to smash, >burn and destroy things instead. If it were some kind of demonstration Hear hear! I don't get it either! >Myself, I prefer dancing and singing to celebrate things. What happened >to dressing up in costumes and building floats and giving away free stuff >like candy or food? Well, here in San Francisco, people still do that on holidays... well, actually, they do that everyday... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 12:57:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Hard drive adapters In-Reply-To: <199808250343.AA22654@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 24, 98 11:43:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/3d624572/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 16:59:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980825134958.00bd9570@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 25, 98 01:49:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1142 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/7cf71aa7/attachment.ksh From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Aug 25 17:40:07 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? Message-ID: <199808252240.PAA03353@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >On drives that store the same number of bits/track - most floppies apart >from Commodore and Mac ones, most 'raw-interfaced' hard disks (ST506, >SMD, RK05, RL01, etc), the inner track has the smallest area storing each >bit (think about it, the inner track is shorter). So PC disks are less reliable then Mac and Commodore disks, then? Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Aug 25 17:56:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Hard drive adapters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > DId Apple drives ever contain a PSU? All the ones I have seen (Apple ][ > single and duodisk, Mac drives) take their power from the main system PSU. None that I have ever seen. Even third party drives using third party adapters (I'm speaking specifically of Rana) got their power from the board (and I've only ever seen one third party board, made by Rana). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 26 18:34:47 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Hard drive adapters Message-ID: <199808252352.TAA05348@gate.usaor.net> Now that I think of it, you're right. I just need the case from the apple drive to house an old 5.25" full height HD. I needed the TRS-80 drives/boxes for an old TRS-80 model III. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Tony Duell > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Hard drive adapters > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 1:57 PM > > > Apple and trs80 drives are not interchangeable though the case/PS would > > be. I think I still have one with a drive. > > DId Apple drives ever contain a PSU? All the ones I have seen (Apple ][ > single and duodisk, Mac drives) take their power from the main system PSU. > > > > > Allison > > > > > > -tony > From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 25 18:55:04 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex update References: Message-ID: <35E34ED7.711CFD70@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Got it set. I got impatient and used GSETUP31 to initially set the > > scrambled date, time and drive types to get it to boot and found the > > setup program from Mem-Tel on the hard drive (duh). I copied it off for > > future use so if anyone needs it just ask. > > Russ, if the drive is really SCSI, why should you have to set a drive > type? My experience has always been that it is set to 'none'. Beats the dog poop out of me but the Quantum ProDrive 40S was marked as a type 148 and nothing came up but bad controller until I set it to 148. First time for everything I guess. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 26 18:50:22 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Tips needed to repair Apple color composite monitor Message-ID: <199808252355.TAA06027@gate.usaor.net> > That _does_ sound like a decoder. Maybe you could look at Toshiba TV > schematics (I have almost _no_ NTSC stuff here) and see if you can figure > out what the chip does... > Well, if it was made by Toshiba.... That's probably what's wrong with it... GooD LucK, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From fauradon at pclink.com Tue Aug 25 19:26:24 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together Message-ID: <000e01bdd088$29566760$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Just a quick reninder: Friday August 28, tequilaberries, 6:00pm Please let me know if you are planning to attend, I'll be there early to reserve a table. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 25 19:50:24 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together In-Reply-To: <000e01bdd088$29566760$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980825195024.006cf728@pop3.concentric.net> If it's just two of us showing up let's put it on hold since it's a nice drive for me from Burnsville. Maybe you and I can get together and go on a shopping spree one weekend. I plan on going to a big flea market this Sunday if you want to go also let me know as it's up north. John At 07:26 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Just a quick reninder: >Friday August 28, tequilaberries, 6:00pm >Please let me know if you are planning to attend, I'll be there early to >reserve a table. >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the desperately in need of update >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > > > From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 26 20:05:06 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Driver Needed Message-ID: <199808260110.VAA21867@gate.usaor.net> I'm looking for a driver for a "Micro Mainframe Expanded Memory Expansion Board" (yes, that's the actual name of it). The model number of it is EMS-5150-T. The name of the driver is . It's for a Tandy 1000TL XT-class 286/12MHz. One other question: The processor clocks in @ 12 MHz. The 1000TL is supposed to be 8 MHz. Was there ever an upgrade offered for this computer to make it 12MHz? The chip is manufactured by AMD, and it's a 286-12 (it may be a S or SX, I'm not sure). This is also the computer that I'm trying to find an XTA drive for. Make or model doesn't matter, as long as the heads aren't run by a stepper motor. ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 18:33:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? In-Reply-To: <199808252240.PAA03353@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 25, 98 03:40:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1184 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/19efb007/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 25 18:28:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Data General In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Aug 25, 98 05:41:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1382 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/ecb429a2/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:27 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825174955.5cf71118@ricochet.net> At 08:01 PM 8/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >a semi-functional Wang PC with a splitting maul is very cathartic when [...] >Plus it helps keep me from feeling like I need to take it out on my users. Ah, but there are so many more users than classic computers... and besides, which is more desirable to have around? 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825181300.5cb707b8@ricochet.net> At 06:44 PM 8/24/98 -0800, you wrote: >running. I've got a 520ST, which is unfortuanatly missing the powersupply >for the floppy drive, and a TT030, both of which are TOS based systems. >TOS and GEM are related. It's actually a VERY cool system as the entire >OS, which is a GUI, is in ROM. However, it is a single task system, and in >my not so humble opinion the interface sucks. Still I think they are VERY >COOL! I know saying it sucks, and saying it's cool doesn't make a lot of >sense :^) TOS and GEM are related somewhat like DOS and Windows are related -- GEM runs on top of TOS, but unlike windows, you don't really notice it. There are add-ons and upgrades to GEM that do allow true multi-tasking. A quick web search should turn them up. I've been happy with GEM as-is as I've found it easier to run multiple ST's than to keep on top of the latest and greatest opsys's. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:28 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Classic Mags (was: Shame, shame, shame) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825175354.5cb74d36@ricochet.net> At 05:19 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone still have that classic cover from an early issue of >Interface Age? The one where the programmer has just buried a fire axe >in an ASR-33 teletype. Speaking of which, anyone else remember the series of ads from (iirc) SmartTerm that said "Now that you have SmartTerm, what are you going to do with your terminal?" and featured pictures of converted terminals being used as a Fishbowl, a Mailbox, and a Dollhouse. There might have been others, too. I always wanted to do the mailbox bit. Anyone still have copies of these (or better still, scanned versions?) Maybe I'll see if SmartTerm is still in business... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:30 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825182335.5cb7a562@ricochet.net> At 10:31 PM 8/24/98 -0400, you wrote: >Yeah, I know a number of musicians using STs in preference to more >modern PC VESA/PCI sound cards -- there is some program out of >Germany (dongle protected) that apparently has yet to be equalled on >Wintel platforms. Probably Cubase -- which I would be using if a) I had and money, b) I had any talent, and c) I had any time. Cubase Audio for the Falcon (68030) offered (iirc) 8 or 16 track digital recording straight out of the box. Serious digital recording & MIDI for around a grand. (Used Falcon, Cubase, and a big hard drive.) Also, there are ST clones available from (iirc) Canada and/or Germany with fast 68060 processors, tower cases, IDE and SCSI support, true multi-tasking, etc. The Medusa, if I recall correctly. And, while we're on the subject, anyone get to the World of Atari in Las Vegas last weekend? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:31 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825184206.0aff37dc@ricochet.net> At 06:20 AM 8/25/98 +0000, you wrote: >> 520ST does indeed run GEM; it's about equivalent to a Mac Plus or so. > > Not to start a flame-war or anything but I have a 4 meg Mac+ and there's no >way it is the equivalent of an ST. The only thing they had in common was the Well, certainly, a 4mb Mac+ (with what current version of the opsys?) is going to be faster etc. than a stock 520ST running TOS 1.0. But, compare a 4MB ST with TOS 1.4 (or 1.6?) with "the various add-ons" and I think you'll find they're pretty equivalent. Vastly different footprints, however, something that I find rather interesting. Mind you, a lot more software was developed for the Mac, at least partially because Tramiel never bothered to advertise the ST (or for that matter, stocked them in the US.) > I have friends that use it in live performance and it is still used >extensively in studios, especially in Europe, tho the Atari Falcon or one of >it's clones are now preferred because of thier built-in DTD capabilities. Yep. I got two Falcons just before my mom passed away; Shortly thereafter I moved back home to take care of my dad and my studio is still mostly disassembled. *sigh* Someday, however, I'll get it all set up again, and finish off the album I was working on. >> The 800XL is an updated version of the venerable 800. Has BASIC built-in >> and only one cartridge. Nice machine. >> > There's a local BBS that uses 8-bit Ataris he even has an Inet feed. Really? What BBS is that? Our club is running an ST BBS, but we're looking at switching to either a DOS- or Linux-based system so as to (someday) get an internet mail connection. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 25 20:58:32 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Ataris Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980825184511.5cffddde@ricochet.net> At 06:20 AM 8/25/98 +0000, you wrote: >computer flame-war :^)) The Atari 8-bit and CBM newsgroups are still very >active. They'll be glad to help you get your 8-bits up and running. New prgms. >are still being written for them by avid 8-bitters. I have C64 1541 and Atari I know a guy who uses Atari 1200XL's (same series, newer version) with 65816 CPU's, internal hard drives, and a connection to his desktop PC to use it as a big hard drive/CD-ROM unit. Pretty cool. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From van at wired.com Tue Aug 25 21:29:13 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: WORLD OF ATARI '98...WALKING THROUGH THE PARK AND REMINISCING In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980825182335.5cb7a562@ricochet.net> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2018 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980825/4d522763/attachment.bin From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 25 21:37:13 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <13382613436.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35E374D9.47EF2DF8@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [keep him from feeling like he has to take it out on his lusers...] > > Oh? I thought that's what they were here for... > ------- Hey, just because you were announced BOFH of the month doesn't make you equal to Simon. If we kill off _all_ the lusers, the market for BOFH's will drop -- then we'll be cutting each other's feeds with chainsaws. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 26 21:21:26 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Classic Mags (was: Shame, shame, shame) Message-ID: <199808260249.WAA13724@gate.usaor.net> I once say a kit in some magazine that would let you turn a Mac into a fishbowl. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Uncle Roger > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Classic Mags (was: Shame, shame, shame) > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 9:58 PM > > Speaking of which, anyone else remember the series of ads from (iirc) > SmartTerm that said "Now that you have SmartTerm, what are you going to do > with your terminal?" and featured pictures of converted terminals being > used as a Fishbowl, a Mailbox, and a Dollhouse. There might have been > others, too. I always wanted to do the mailbox bit. Anyone still have > copies of these (or better still, scanned versions?) Maybe I'll see if > SmartTerm is still in business... > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 25 21:52:54 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <13382615324.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35E37886.F3492047@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Lauching Bill Gates] > > Mee tooo! > > It'd be more fun to put him in a space capsule, launch that, then open the door in orbit... *SPLATTER* > > (If you don't know, putting a body in a vacuum causes it to explode) > ------- Uh, no, it doesn't. That's what happens in bad movies. In reality, the water boils off, causing some of the easier exits to make messes, but the main body will basically "freeze-dry" even if it's exposed to the Sun. (NASA [an organization I despise because it denies _any_ other American effort access to orbit] _has_ done animal tests to check that out). (The only thing better than testing medical research on animals is testing it on politicians -- but the poli's are too damned noisy to let you concentrate when you're working on the report -- and you're still not allowed to kill them). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From wpe at interserv.com Tue Aug 25 20:33:11 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg References: Message-ID: <35E365D7.25ED32B2@interserv.com> Hmmmmmm... All I get is an error that the highlighted text is greater than 32 characters.... Will Doug Yowza wrote: > > Stop me if you've heard this one already: > > > In Word, type: > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > -- Doug From wpe at interserv.com Tue Aug 25 20:36:30 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg References: Message-ID: <35E3669E.A543E5D3@interserv.com> On a related item, as memory serves me, if you typed the following to monitor level TOPS-10..... .GOTO HELL TOPS-10 would return.... .GET STUFFED Will Doug Yowza wrote: > > Stop me if you've heard this one already: > > > In Word, type: > > > > "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead" > > > > Highlight the sentence. Then go into Tools, Thesaurus. > > > > Looks like there are some disgruntled Microsoft employees out there. > > -- Doug From wpe at interserv.com Mon Aug 24 20:59:28 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: TOPS for PC, from sun References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C551@NT486> Message-ID: <35E21A80.2CA4D4D8@interserv.com> 8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<- still snippin' > > (TOPS-20 on a PC! The horror!) > > ------- Judging by the horrors of Microslop's stuff, I dunno' 'bout that... > > Seems there is some confusion here. TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 were DEC > operating systems for the 36-bit DEC-10 and DEC-20 mainframes, circa > late 60's (DEC-10) thru late 70's (DEC-20). TOPS dies when the VAX came > out, thought there are vestiges left in VMS. Jeez, when I worked for them, we kept TOPS-10 on a KL1091 up until about 1988, then we migrated it to a KL2060 (formerly running V12 (I think) TOPS-20).. At that point, it was TOPS-10 V7.02.. TOPS didn't die (IMHO, 'course I'm biased...), although the console message [%DECsystem-10 Not Running] followed by STOPCODE KAF would tell me that I had work to do before production was back up and running..... Migrating TOPS-10/20 production to VMS was another "adventure".. Will From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 25 22:37:22 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C559@NT486> Message-ID: <35E382F2.117F1081@cnct.com> Jack Peacock wrote: > > From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] > >Sad. That was probably perpetrated by those Israeli guys in Las Vegas > who > rent out machine guns for an hour or whatnot so you can blast away at > stuff. I'm not kidding, this place exists. Northwest of the strip I > think. Funny thing about Israel -- ever since teachers were given official sanction (which should have been unnecessary) to carry guns at school, there have been (approximately) no school shootings in that country. Compare that to the situation in the US since "Gun Free School Zones" became popular (voted in buy Congress, struck down by Supreme Court, voted in as a rider to something else by Congress and not yet struck down -- Hell, there are folks trying to apply that rule to parents doing home-schooling, especially since the libertarian types likeliest to home-school are likely to also support the Second, therefore would be instantly arrestable and jailable.. > There are at least two places west of the strip, Shooter Supply (the > nicest one) and The Survival Store, that rent out or sponsor machine gun > events. Both are close to my office. I think there are a couple more > on the east side of town. These ranges are very popular with Japanese > tourists. Typically they rent out Uzis, Thompsons, MACs, and the usual > generic batch of 9mms. Naturally these places are popular with Japanese tourists, who have been disarmed since the Sixteenth century, forbidden guns and even bows except for the "nobility" with swords. The Japanese people _love_ guns, the government(s) of those islands over the centuries have always been afraid of weapons in the hands of peasants, just as the (leaders of our country) nowadays are in the District of Columbia. Presently Japan is the ringleader of the statist elements attempting to disarm the citizens of _any_ United Nations member country, including the one that pays most of the bills and gives them free rent on what would otherwise be some of the most expensive real estate on the planet if if it was managed properly. Hell, I live in a US state where the Second Amendment is totally ignored. Except that the ammendment doesn't _give_ the right to keep and bear arms, it says that Congress isn't allowed to fuck with a right we all have courtesy of being born human. Yeah, I'm in a bad mood just now. And since I don't give a damn about Sarah or Jim Brady, don't make guesses about whether or not I might be armed. Since I am better armed by my surroundings (walking through a park or office suite) than if I merely had a cheap low-caliber pistol I could conceal. At the range you can kill somebody with a .22 pistol, the knife is already in your bowels. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 25 23:22:45 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Microsoft Word Easter Egg References: Message-ID: <35E38D95.D4F1A5CA@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Markus Blumrich wrote: > > > For those of us who have avoided buying this Microsoft product, would > > someone be kind enough to post what it actually says? > > You check the thesaurus on "I'd like to see Bill Gates dead." and the last > phrase the thesaurus comes up with is "I'll drink to that." > > Its basically a matter of poor pattern recognition. All you really have > to do is highlight "I'd" to get the same results everytime. In other > words, its a coincidence. You could substitute Gates' name with "Markus > Blumrich" and it would come out the same way. > > The "zzzz" look-up apparently comes up with "sex", but not on my version > for some reason. And neither works today under Office/Word '97 under NT Server 4.0. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 25 23:30:40 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: **** snip **** > > ST506 to IDE???? Nah! Direct to IDE has been done already, see TCJ > > Actually, I've been thinking of an ST506 (host) to IDE or SCSI (drive) > interface for some time. It's decidedly non-trivial, mainly because you > have to have some idea of how the data is encoded, and what the > controller expects in the sector headers, etc. Or at least you do for any > half-efficient design I have a couple of cards that are exactly the reverse of what you plan. They are 3.5" form factor, and built by WDC for Compaq. I can only conclude that Compaq needed more IDEs than were available at one time, early on. > The reason is that, at least in the UK, ST506 drives are getting hard to > find. And there are machines (the PERQ springs to mind) where it's going > to be _very_ hard to use any other form of drive. They are getting less plentiful here also, but ESDIs seem to be multiplying! **** snip **** - don From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 25 23:34:09 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > "On disk platters," he said, "the inside track > > > is the least reliable one." > > > > > >It was a very popular column. > > > > Of which ancient systems was this true? > > On drives that store the same number of bits/track - most floppies apart > from Commodore and Mac ones, most 'raw-interfaced' hard disks (ST506, > SMD, RK05, RL01, etc), the inner track has the smallest area storing each > bit (think about it, the inner track is shorter). > > So, it's possible that the inner track is the least reliable. I've > certainly had more floppies fail on the inner tracks than the outer ones. On the other hand, one of the outer tracks - the one that contains the directory - is accessed much more frequently than any other. It is there that I have experienced the greatest number of failures. - don > > Today's CD-ROMs are the opposite, I've heard: as the head positions > > to the outermost area of the disc, it tends to push dust along the > > guides, and many CD drives accumulate a pile of dust out there, > > preventing it from reaching "the end." > > Well, that problem is trivially solved by keeping the rails clean :-)... > > Seriously, some drives do a full seek (heads to both endstops) at > spin-up. The RK07 certainly does. I suspect this would quite happily keep > the dust down. Maybe CD-ROMs should as well. > > > > > > > - John > > > > > > -tony > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 25 23:46:22 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Memorex Telex update In-Reply-To: <35E34ED7.711CFD70@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > Got it set. I got impatient and used GSETUP31 to initially set the > > > scrambled date, time and drive types to get it to boot and found the > > > setup program from Mem-Tel on the hard drive (duh). I copied it off for > > > future use so if anyone needs it just ask. > > > > Russ, if the drive is really SCSI, why should you have to set a drive > > type? My experience has always been that it is set to 'none'. > > Beats the dog poop out of me but the Quantum ProDrive 40S was marked as a > type 148 and nothing came up but bad controller until I set it to 148. First > time for everything I guess. Now there is another 'wonderment'! I never before heard of a HD type selection in that high a number series. Something new every day! - don > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From darkside at digicron.com Wed Aug 26 00:01:25 1998 From: darkside at digicron.com (Poesie De La Fenetre) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together References: <3.0.3.32.19980825195024.006cf728@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <35E396A5.13BD@digicron.com> Ditto for me... I'm in eagan, and that's quite a haul. maybe you should come south :P -Eric John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > If it's just two of us showing up let's put it on hold since it's a nice > drive for me from Burnsville. Maybe you and I can get together and go on a > shopping spree one weekend. I plan on going to a big flea market this > Sunday if you want to go also let me know as it's up north. John > At 07:26 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Just a quick reninder: > >Friday August 28, tequilaberries, 6:00pm > >Please let me know if you are planning to attend, I'll be there early to > >reserve a table. > >Francois > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >Visit the desperately in need of update > >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > > > > > > > > From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 26 00:25:37 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? References: Message-ID: <35E39C51.5A1C3C3B@cnct.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On the other hand, one of the outer tracks - the one that contains the > directory - is accessed much more frequently than any other. It is there In most of its 5.25" and 8" incarnations, TRSDOS (we're talking half a dozen operating systems here despite the common name) put the directory track near the center for speed of access. The track generally accessed by _marginal_ (and failing) equipment is is Track Zero, the boot track. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From afritz at delphid.ml.org Wed Aug 26 02:15:27 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: vlb ethernet... Message-ID: I remember someone asking here about VLB ethernet cards (long time ago)... So, here: http://www.ahhz.com/dspecial.htm 10 pack for $20 :) af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 26 02:28:27 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:13 2005 Subject: vlb ethernet... In-Reply-To: from "Adam Fritzler" at Aug 26, 98 00:15:27 am Message-ID: <199808260728.BAA32007@calico.litterbox.com> Aieggh! This only 6 months after I got the last VLB motherboard out of my house. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From fauradon at pclink.com Wed Aug 26 06:22:45 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together Message-ID: <000d01bdd0e3$d9c59480$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> But I am south, I live in Burnsville. How about Chilli's on county rd 42 across from the mall. Same time, Same day. (I just like tequilaberries) Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Poesie De La Fenetre To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Twin cities get together >Ditto for me... I'm in eagan, and that's quite a haul. maybe you should >come south :P > >-Eric > > > >John R. Keys Jr. wrote: >> >> If it's just two of us showing up let's put it on hold since it's a nice >> drive for me from Burnsville. Maybe you and I can get together and go on a >> shopping spree one weekend. I plan on going to a big flea market this >> Sunday if you want to go also let me know as it's up north. John >> At 07:26 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >Just a quick reninder: >> >Friday August 28, tequilaberries, 6:00pm >> >Please let me know if you are planning to attend, I'll be there early to >> >reserve a table. >> >Francois >> >------------------------------------------------------------- >> >Visit the desperately in need of update >> >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >> > >> > >> > >> > > From bobstek at ix10.ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 26 08:53:46 1998 From: bobstek at ix10.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Sol terminal computer Message-ID: <001301bdd0f8$f1fb7fa0$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> IMHO, the Sol is the next most important early commercial microcomputer after the Altair and IMSAI. Although it had 5 S-100 slots, it really was a single-board computer with built-in 64x16 video, serial and parallel ports, keyboard, cassette tape interface, and ROM monitor which supported its use as a serial terminal supporting VDT escape sequences as well as being usable as a true computer. Cassette-based software included 5k BASIC, 16k Extended BASIC, FOCAL, PILOT, ALS-8 (Assembly Language System), arcade style "real time" games (Target, Trek80) as well as BASIC games and 8080 Chess. Its 8" Helios disk system was expensive and the PerSci drives finicky - which is why so many SOL users opted for a NorthStar controller and 5.25" drives. Contact jordan_ruderman@supermac.com - he has been compiling an audio CD-ROM of all the cassette software. You can substitute a portable CD player in place of the SOL's cassette player, or just dub copies onto cassette (to capture that ol' time flavor!). Also, if your keyboard is acting flakey, it may be because the little foam pads inside have deteriorated over the years. Contact Jim Willing at the Computer Garage http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw for DIY replacements or he will do it for you. Jim is very knowledgable about SOLs. Bob Stek Saver of lost SOLs On 25 Aug 1998 22:29:33 GMT, george@agora.rdrop.com (George Rachor) wrote: >I've got a SOL Terminal computer dug out from a pile of stuff I obtained from a >Goodwill several years ago. Unfortunatly there is no disk drive with it. Ie: >I don't want to part with it but surely I can do something with it besides >displaying it. Is there anything I can do with this critter without a disk >this creature usuable for anything? > >George Rachor > >george@racsys.rt.rain.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 07:15:42 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M Message-ID: <199808261215.AA21159@world.std.com> < I have a couple of cards that are exactly the reverse of what you plan. < They are 3.5" form factor, and built by WDC for Compaq. I can only < conclude that Compaq needed more IDEs than were available at one time, < early on. Going from IDE to MFM/RLL is trivial. scrounge up a 100x ATA bus controller and hang it on. Same idea as the article using the xt 8bit 1002. The original plan was to figure out the protocal the parallel port SQ270 (internally ide) disk uses. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 07:15:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? Message-ID: <199808261215.AA21264@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808261227.AA01853@world.std.com> >On a related item, as memory serves me, if you typed the following >to monitor level TOPS-10..... > >.GOTO HELL >TOPS-10 would return.... >.GET STUFFED RT-11 also has some things like that... .help me ?HELP-Help is not available for you or .mung (with no argument) ?How can I mung nothing? or .make love not war? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Aug 26 08:43:11 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? Message-ID: <980826094311.24200157@timvax.trailing-edge.com> Don Maslin wrote: >On the other hand, one of the outer tracks - the one that contains the >directory - is accessed much more frequently than any other. It is there >that I have experienced the greatest number of failures. This is true for many operating systems on many computers. Often in the 70's and early 80's drive manufacturers would put circuitry in the drives that would randomly move the heads off the directory tracks after a certain period of time of non-access. (I have several Kennedy 14" SMD drives that will do this. They have the nice feature of a clear enclosure so that you can see what exactly the heads are doing at any point in time!) Tim. From scott at saskatoon.com Wed Aug 26 08:56:54 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: xyzzy? (Was: Re: Microsoft Word Easter Egg) In-Reply-To: <35E3669E.A543E5D3@interserv.com> Message-ID: On a somewhat related topic... I've heard that some OSes had the magical command xyzzy built in, but I haven't found one yet. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, what OSes support this important command? ttfn srw On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, will emerson wrote: > On a related item, as memory serves me, if you typed the following > to monitor level TOPS-10..... > > .GOTO HELL > TOPS-10 would return.... > .GET STUFFED From aaronwa at telusplanet.net Wed Aug 26 08:59:34 1998 From: aaronwa at telusplanet.net (Aaron Michael Walkhouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C559@NT486> Message-ID: <199808261357.GAA19121@mxu2.u.washington.edu> ' -----Original Message----- ' From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu ' [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Jack Peacock ' Sent: August 25, 1998 1018 ' To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ' Subject: RE: Shame, shame, shame ' ' ' From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] ' >Sad. That was probably perpetrated by those Israeli guys in Las Vegas ' who ' rent out machine guns for an hour or whatnot so you can blast away at ' stuff. I'm not kidding, this place exists. Northwest of the strip I ' think. ' ' ' There are at least two places west of the strip, Shooter Supply (the ' nicest one) and The Survival Store, that rent out or sponsor machine gun ' events. Both are close to my office. I think there are a couple more ' on the east side of town. These ranges are very popular with Japanese ' tourists. Typically they rent out Uzis, Thompsons, MACs, and the usual ' generic batch of 9mms. ' Jack Peacock Oboyoboy! Do these folks have any Barrett Light Fifties? I always wanted to try out a rifle that could remove a shooter's shoes for him! kaBLAMMMMM! ;] From pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com Wed Aug 26 09:12:17 1998 From: pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com (pechter@babel.ho.lucent.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: xyzzy? (Was: Re: Microsoft Word Easter Egg) In-Reply-To: from "Scott Walde" at Aug 26, 98 07:56:54 am Message-ID: <199808261412.KAA26362@babel.ho.lucent.com> In a message Scott Walde said = > > > On a somewhat related topic... I've heard that some OSes had the magical > command xyzzy built in, but I haven't found one yet. Does anyone know if > this is true? If so, what OSes support this important command? > > ttfn > srw Data General OS's... (I was told it was on machines from the Nova through the Eclipse). I'm not sure but I think the MV8000 had it as well. Bill From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 26 09:46:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Fun with an image editor... In-Reply-To: <199808251702.TAA20186@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <13382874720.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Own an old BULL mini?] Oh no! I mean the PDP-10! ------- From aaronwa at telusplanet.net Wed Aug 26 09:57:26 1998 From: aaronwa at telusplanet.net (Aaron Michael Walkhouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: more info on ancient tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808261455.HAA12825@mxu4.u.washington.edu> ' -----Original Message----- ' From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu ' [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail ' Sent: August 25, 1998 0948 ' To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ' Subject: RE: more info on systems.... ' ' ' On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Aaron Michael Walkhouse wrote: ' ' > If you get a chance to look closer, see if those disk boxes (or ' machines) ' > contain tape cartridges. ' > These carts are about 4 1/4" by 5" by 1" (inches), contain 1 ' spool each and ' > look like a corner has been cut off. ' > If you find some, poke into the gear and see how many can be ' loaded into the ' > racks (if you find some) ' > If you do indeed have an IBM 3480 tape library I want it, ' whether or not you ' > have any tape left. ' > (I want to dig a really deeeeeeeeep data mine!) ;] ' ' Ack! Finally someone who can use the hundreds upon hundreds of these data ' carthridges that I've been hoarding at work for years (well, one at least) ' in the hopes that someone, some day will speak up and say they can use ' them! ' ' Quick, tell me if you need them and I'll go grab them. As soon as I read ' your post, Murphy's Minions (the little gervils that carry out Murphy's ' Laws) began disposing of those carthridges. They were probably ordered to ' be dumpstered last week, but last time I was through there they were all ' over the place. ' ' HURRY! Tell me you need them! Don't let all my work be in vain. Just ' pay for shipping. I have some already, but these are the type of thing that work best in LARGE quantities. I also need a drive or library to plug'em into, but whatever. . . At 6-7 bucks new these carts are downright economical, which is why I'm looking. I discovered this when a data disposal company here in Edmonton got a contract to destroy a few thousand of them. Looked it up on the net and learned about 3480 3490 tapes (fast, cheap, reliable, roomy), and now I want one of those beasts that can rack a few hundred (or thousand!) carts, switching from cart-to-cart in only 5 seconds. Oughta provide a fair backup for my puny 6 gig disk. Besides, I always like to packrat oodles of files and this sounds like the way to go. . . (It'd also look pretty cool dancing away behind my computer bench, eh? Maybe I could be one of "The Lone Gunmen" with snazzy gear like that.) I'd have rescued these ones but they were under a contract and destined to be sawn in half. It was something to do with confidentiality or some such excuse, probably related to the fact that I and others here used to retrieve juicy bits from surplussed hard drives from the governments. (heh-heh) Anywho, how far is it and how many are they? Even old carts are worth banking. Since they come new in cartons of thirty that'd be 200 bucks a box, so I'm sure you would save me a few bucks. Also does your Company have any worries about the data? Anything that Sixty Minutes would like? They may want them destroyed for good reason and I wouldn't want to put you in front of The Firing Squad. . . ;] And MOST importantly: If there are carts being dumped, there may be a drive in the pile! (Say it's so!) I'd take it even if it squeaks or only holds one cart at a time. New drives are STILL in the four-figure range! From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 26 12:14:41 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <199808261458.QAA21699@marina.fth.sbs.de> > < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been > < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr > I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. S100 8086 boxes ? Are there still some left ? I never thought they had shown up in a big mass. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 26 12:14:41 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808261458.QAA21756@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few > "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, > $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. > Jack Peacock I think I should realy try to evaluate the value of one of my Pascal Micro Engines (btw: Has anyone out there one ? ). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 26 10:02:19 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <35E374D9.47EF2DF8@cnct.com> Message-ID: <13382877607.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Just because I was...] Oh, you saw that? The thing is, they have my email address in the HTML so's the grepping spammers can get me. I'm thinking of mailing them again and nominating Sam for the "sing-a-song-of -spam" bit... [lusers] You couldn't kill all of the lusers, there's always more of them. They just keep appearing from wherever they're born from. I think they come from Marketing... That seems to be the source of about everything else I hate. ------- From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 26 12:34:31 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <8459@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808261542.KAA25036@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 05:15 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few >> "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, >> $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. >> Jack Peacock > >I think I should realy try to evaluate the value of >one of my Pascal Micro Engines (btw: Has anyone out ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, the first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anyway), rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple I), not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actually available to mere mortals. It was a good idea; but as is so common in this business, the old axiom held true: No good deed goes unpunished. I think WD lost their shirt on this one . . . Jeff From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 26 12:41:39 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <8458@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808261549.KAA25086@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 05:15 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >> < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >> < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr > >> I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. > >S100 8086 boxes ? >Are there still some left ? >I never thought they had shown up in a big mass. You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. It was truly depressing. Timing is definitely everything in this game. Jeff > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Aug 26 11:08:29 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C55E@NT486> > Oboyoboy! Do these folks have any Barrett Light Fifties? I always wanted to try out a rifle that could remove a shooter's shoes for him! kaBLAMMMMM! ;] Nope, out of luck, all they have are pistol and submachine guns, after all, it's an indoor range, a .50 BMG would go right thru the wall and the building next door too. Indoor ranges don't have the backstop for any rifle rounds, so no AKs, FALs, Galils, any of the good stuff either. BTW a friend of mine makes a printed circuit type card for a computerized chronograph used to measure 20mm rounds for an ammo manufacturer. They actually fire the round thru the card, and use the break in the circuit to control the chronograph. Because of the size and amount of gas generated by a 20mm round, a regular chronograph using sky light doesn't work, not accurate enough. The card is actually silk screened conductive ink on cardboard. Yeah, I'd like to have a Barrett too, but $5K is a bit too steep for me, unless someone would like to trade for a nice IMSAI with front panel? Then there's the cost of dies and a reloader for .50BMG rounds... Jack Peacock From cfandt at servtech.com Wed Aug 26 11:07:17 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808261549.KAA25086@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> References: <8458@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808261607.QAA17485@cyber2.servtech.com> At 10:41 26-08-98 -0700, Jeff Kaneko wrote: >At 05:15 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>> < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr >> >>> I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. >> >>S100 8086 boxes ? >>Are there still some left ? >>I never thought they had shown up in a big mass. > >You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available >for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or >separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. >It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). > >I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of >them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. The H/Z-100's also ran CP/M-85. As some of you know it was a dual processor machine (8085/8088). Served well as a transition machine for those who had lots of CP/M applications and were moving into the then-new MessDos world. I've got two low-profile models (Z-110's, the model series refered by Jeff as 'separate monitor configuration') one plain-jane with just dual floppies and 768K RAM and the other I hot-rodded with UCI's IBM PC Emulator add-on hardware, NEC V20 CPU and a 30 MB RLL HDD. The UCI parts made it pretty much XT-compatible but a very few s/w applications which had not been written completely XT-generic would give problems. Still a 7.xx XT MHz machine by most any standards though. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Aug 26 11:25:06 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <1998Aug26.121922.1767.132100@smtp.itgonline.com> I agree that there is no cure for stiction but on the older 3 1/2" FF HDD's I used to gently nudge the spindle flywheel under the drive board. This would free the head of the platter goo and typically the drive would spin up and boot at which point a complete backup was made. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: I'm Back! Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/23/98 1:25 PM > certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly > against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. >> > > stiction. nothing you can do about it. > Actually an ex-friend of mine had a technique to 'sticky' drives. The theory goes if it's hosed anyway and you need to get data off it, you can do things to it that you wouldn't ordinarily do and what do you have to lose? At any rate, I've used it before and it seems to work on X percent of drives that are totally stuck (especially ones that won't start up even when whacked). You put the drive top-down (circuit side up) on top of a nice toasty monitor and just leave it there for several days or weeks. I don't know if this loosens up some lubricant, expands whatever's sticky or what but if you take the drive off the monitor and hook it up immediately and start it up immediately...occasionally you can get it to spin up and give you your data. The opposite of this is a drive I had (old Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI) that would run for about 2 hours, overheat and 'shut down' (it wouldn't spin down...it'd just start giving errors and was generally useless). I knew it was heat because I could extend the time-till-shutdown to about 3 hours by pointing a small muffin fan at it. I had NO money at the time...except for rent money I was flat broke...and couldn't afford to replace the drive and...seeing how it was 1991 and I live in the backwater state of Iowa, nobody would loan me a replacement. The Mac SE it was in was also out of warranty. At any rate, since it was winter it was cold outside so I wrapped the drive in a plastic bag, sealed it up with duct tape around the SCSI cable, set it on the ledge outside the window, closed the window without squishing the cable and sealed up the crack with duct tape. Left the machine and the drive on for something like 2 months that way (though my memory is a bit rusty there) until I could save enough money for a replacement. I was worried about condensation inside the bag but it never caused a problem. At one point, the drive slid off the ledge and was dangling by the SCSI cable and power cable but the duct tape held it firm. It ran like that for several days until I noticed it wasn't on the ledge. On a related subject, I've seen and had several Syquest 40 meg drives that wouldn't work and wouldn't work and wouldn't work until you flipped them upside and then they'd work just fine. Not the cartridge...the whole drive. Which reminds me...I worked at a typesetting shop once and a guy from another department walks in and tells me he's accidentally formatted his syquest cartridge and is there any way to get the data back? So, with a room full of people who knew better I told him, "Oh yeah...if you just flip the cartridge over, that'll run it backwards so that if you format it again, that'll do the reverse of formatting it and you data will be back." I figured he'd know I was kidding but he DIDN'T and starting walking away to DO IT! I stopped him fortunately and recovered his data with proper tools. Of course, a couple months later he thrashed the innards of a $1500 magneto-optical drive by jamming an 80 meg syquest cartridge into it REAL HARD. I patiently explained to him that when you hear snapping sounds and grinding metal you're generally doing something wrong. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug23.132549.1767.58958; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:25:49 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA21121; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:34 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA27092 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:28 -0700 Received: from www.retrocomputing.com (www.retrocomputing.com [208.141.153.36]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA13688 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:25 -0700 Received: (from wirehead@localhost) by www.retrocomputing.com (8.8.7/8.6.10) id LAA10397; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:24 -0500 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:23 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Wirehead Prime To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: I'm Back! In-Reply-To: <57d773ed.35dfd743@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:39:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <9807269041.AA904178376@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > The H/Z-100's also ran CP/M-85. As some of you know it was a dual > processor machine (8085/8088). Served well as a transition machine for > those who had lots of CP/M applications and were moving into the then-new > MessDos world. I've got two low-profile models (Z-110's, the model Reminiscent of the DEC Rainbow. ISTR that the CP/M on that would quite happily execute both .COM files, which it scheduled on the Z80, and .CMD files, which ran on the 8088. I'm not sure what it did if you accidentally tried to run a Messydos prog under CP/M, though... perhaps I should try it someday. Philip. From pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com Wed Aug 26 11:47:08 1998 From: pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com (pechter@babel.ho.lucent.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808261542.KAA25036@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 26, 98 10:34:31 am Message-ID: <199808261647.MAA29702@babel.ho.lucent.com> In a message Jeff Kaneko said = > RE:Pascal Micro Engines > Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, the > first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anyway), > rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple I), > not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actually > available to mere mortals. > > It was a good idea; but as is so common in this business, the old axiom > held true: > No good deed goes unpunished. > > I think WD lost their shirt on this one . . . > > Jeff > > I thought the DEC LSI11 (PDP11/03) used a variety of this chip with different microcode roms. Folks? Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill Pechter | Lucent Technologies | Voice 732-946-1106 | Fax 732-946-9146| | 943 Holmdel Road, Holmdel, NJ 07733-2013 | pechter@lucent.com | | This message brought to you by the letters PDP and the numbers 11 and 45 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:48:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4052 instruction set Message-ID: <9807269041.AA904178916@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I have had a look at the TEK 4052 instruction set against that of the Motorola 6800. Most of the 6800 instructions are present - the one exception is DAA. Tek also introduce 43 new instructions, but I don't know what any of them do except NOP2 which presumably doesn't do anything at all. More reading required on my part, but I guess a port of FLEX wouldn't be too hard provided it could cope with the BIOS, which on a storage tube machine is bound to be weird. That said, the Tek 4052 has a far better line editor than many non-storage environments I've met... BTW, I've had one request to provide a write-up of my VCF talk for those who can't get to the VCF itself. Is there any demand for this? Sam, do you want this for imclusion in a "conference proceedings" sort of document? It will be difficult, though, to include all the demo program outputs (must get my plotter working again!), manual pages, etc. Philip. From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 26 14:09:27 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808261653.SAA27634@marina.fth.sbs.de> > At 05:15 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few >>> "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, >>> $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. >>> Jack Peacock >>I think I should realy try to evaluate the value of >>one of my Pascal Micro Engines (btw: Has anyone out > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, the > first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anyway), > rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple I), > not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actually > available to mere mortals. :) - I think there have been a lot of other 16 Bit MPs before. I'm realy happy that s.o. at least know a Bit about this beast. in fact, since 12 years (thats when I was glad to aquire my fist one - it was a kind of dream machine) I just met two people knowing the name. They are my pride, and no matter who is visiting my backyard, they always go whoop on ordinary PETs or Trash's, but when I tell them that these are my number one items, I get only blank stupid looks :( Gruss H. P.S.: They are two komplete sets (CPU, dual 8" floppy and terminal) and 2 spare units. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 26 14:24:19 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Pascal Micro Engines Message-ID: <199808261708.TAA08251@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, the >> first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anyway), >> rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple I), >> not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actually >> available to mere mortals. > I thought the DEC LSI11 (PDP11/03) used a variety of this chip with different > microcode roms. Shure, bur the PMS (*G*) utilizes the p-code engine as native Code - at one time the UCSD p-System was a kind of a ruling cross platform and cross language standard. The 'p' of p-System was 'pseudo' not 'Pascal' as most people belive - they had compilers for Pascal, Fortran, Cobol and Basic - all using the same p-code engine to run ans all using the same 'OS'. So to get the system on a new nmachine you just had to write some low level parts of drivers, and, if the new system had a different microprocessor, a new p-code interpreter - whoops, and everything was running. Cross platform development was an easy thing - write one application and let it run on PETs, Tandys, CPM/systems, of coure on APPLE ][s and even on IBM-PCs - oh, did someone say Java ? *grins*. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 12:13:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Sol terminal computer In-Reply-To: <001301bdd0f8$f1fb7fa0$8f0a3ccc@mycroft> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Bob Stek wrote: > IMHO, the Sol is the next most important early commercial microcomputer > after the Altair and IMSAI. Although it had 5 S-100 slots, it really was a I definitely think it's more important than the IMSAI, and perhaps even more important than the Altair. > single-board computer with built-in 64x16 video, serial and parallel ports, > keyboard, cassette tape interface, and ROM monitor which supported its use > as a serial terminal supporting VDT escape sequences as well as being usable And all before the Apple ][. > Contact jordan_ruderman@supermac.com - he has been compiling an audio CD-ROM > of all the cassette software. You can substitute a portable CD player in He's also producing a Sol-20 exhibit for VCF 2.0. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 12:18:36 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <199808261718.AA16218@world.std.com> < > I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. < < S100 8086 boxes ? < Are there still some left ? < I never thought they had shown up in a big mass. define big mass. Compupro did a bunch of card all the way to 386s for s100 as did macrotech and others. I even have a compupro 8085/8088 box that runs at 10mhz, built at a time when the xt was still 4.77 or maybe the clones at 8mhz. It runs CPM80, CPM86, Turbodos, MSdos, CCPM. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 12:18:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808261718.AA16449@world.std.com> < Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, th < first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anywa < rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple < not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actuall < available to mere mortals. BZZT!!! first the PDP-11/03 is the WD chipset, the alpha microsystems s100 crate used the same WD chipset. The WD chip set alloed you to create your own microcode based cpu. It was the only whole computer WD marketed. The chipset had a basic cpu/datapath and microms that contained the microcode. So the basic chips with differing microcode could be literally be different systems. Even DEC had both a WCS and EIS/FIS microm extensions for the 11/03. It didn't run pascal it ran the compiled result P-code which was a stack machine. Scarce, they did make a few. They were expensive though. < It was a good idea; but as is so common in this business, the old axiom < held true: < No good deed goes unpunished. < < I think WD lost their shirt on this one . . . About right. It's was not cheap and hard to expand. However the sales of the chipsets to outside producers (DEC and AMS) made them a bundle. I'd love to see a manual for the chipset and microcode information. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 12:23:42 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808261458.QAA21756@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Hans Franke wrote: > > Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few > > "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, > > $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. > > Jack Peacock > > I think I should realy try to evaluate the value of > one of my Pascal Micro Engines (btw: Has anyone out > there one ? ). I know where the shell of one is - no cards inside :( According to Frank McConnell they are rather scarce. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 12:26:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808261549.KAA25086@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available > for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or > separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. > It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). Yeah, that is a really cool box. I have one with the documentation and some software. > I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of > them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. I was offered one locally (California) a couple weeks ago but the buyer wasn't interested in selling it at the price I wanted to buy. If you want I can hook you up with him. Perhaps he's interested in going through the trouble of shipping it for the right price. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 12:33:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4052 instruction set In-Reply-To: <9807269041.AA904178916@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > BTW, I've had one request to provide a write-up of my VCF talk for those > who can't get to the VCF itself. Is there any demand for this? Sam, do > you want this for imclusion in a "conference proceedings" sort of > document? It will be difficult, though, to include all the demo program > outputs (must get my plotter working again!), manual pages, etc. Sure! I can include that in some proceedings of some sort. I warn you that I still haven't gotten around to getting last year's VCF talks ready for distribution yet. So much to do, and time is a fleeting concept. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 26 13:08:36 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Pascal Micro Engines In-Reply-To: <199808261708.TAA08251@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980826130836.00caa360@pc> At 07:25 PM 8/26/98 +1, you wrote: > >Cross platform development was an easy thing - write one >application and let it run on PETs, Tandys, CPM/systems, >of coure on APPLE ][s and even on IBM-PCs - oh, did someone >say Java ? *grins*. In theory. In practice, many P-System programs made calls to platform-specific extensions to the language in question, linking against a library of a dozen or so routines for doing non-standard subroutines written in machine code: block memory moves, disk block reads, etc. I don't think those were ever standardized between platforms. You can't take the average clone of Pacman or whatever from an Apple II P-System and run it on another system unless it was completely pure - poking video memory ain't pure. As for Java, most backgrounders on its history are sure to acknowledge the debt to the P-System, although it didn't really take off. It was, of course, one of the three OSes offered for the original IBM PC, along with PC-DOS and CP/M-86. I can still run the circa 1984 Pecan version of the P-System in a DOS window under WinNT. See my web page for a history of the UCSD P-System. I'd love to get a Microengine. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 26 16:27:57 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <8476@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808261935.OAA28323@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 01:18 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< Now *that's* historic! Western Digitals first (and last) CPU effort, th >< first HLL ever implemented as an instruction set on a chip (afaik, anywa >< rare as hen's teeth (I'll bet it's scarcity is on the order of the Apple >< not to mention that it was a *very* early 16-bit system that was actuall >< available to mere mortals. > >BZZT!!! first the PDP-11/03 is the WD chipset, the alpha microsystems >s100 crate used the same WD chipset. The WD chip set alloed you to create >your own microcode based cpu. It was the only whole computer WD marketed. Hm, interesting. I had always thought that DEC made all of their own silicon. Does anybody know when DEC started rolling their own? >It didn't run pascal it ran the compiled result P-code which was a stack >machine. OIC. Silly Me. >Scarce, they did make a few. They were expensive though. > >< It was a good idea; but as is so common in this business, the old axiom >< held true: >< No good deed goes unpunished. >< >< I think WD lost their shirt on this one . . . > >About right. It's was not cheap and hard to expand. However the sales >of the chipsets to outside producers (DEC and AMS) made them a bundle. Kinda reminds me of the Moto 88000. The original 88k never gained a following, and Mot lost their shirt. But much of the 88k's technology went into the PowerPC, which was a little more successful. >I'd love to see a manual for the chipset and microcode information. I think the burning question would be: How does one debug somehting like this? Jeff > >Allison > From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Aug 26 16:33:01 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <8478@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808261940.OAA28481@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 10:26 AM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > >> You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available >> for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or >> separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. >> It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). > >Yeah, that is a really cool box. I have one with the documentation and >some software. > >> I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of >> them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. > >I was offered one locally (California) a couple weeks ago but the buyer >wasn't interested in selling it at the price I wanted to buy. If you want >I can hook you up with him. Perhaps he's interested in going through the >trouble of shipping it for the right price. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Well that's just it, isn't it? I mean, if I had showed up two days before I could have gotten them (in working condition) for *NOTHING*. It's not the kind of thing I'd pay serious money for (even if I had it), but I'd surely grab one if it were going to be junked. The same junk yard also has a Vector and a distressed N* Horizon. Jeff From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 14:46:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <19980826194658.23910.qmail@hotmail.com> Dual processors? Another I've never heard of. My 8086 databook says that up to four can be wired together, but I've never heard of anyone doing it. Did this particular one work well? >>> < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>> < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr >> >>> I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. >> >>S100 8086 boxes ? >>Are there still some left ? >>I never thought they had shown up in a big mass. > >You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available >for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or >separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. >It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). > >I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of >them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. > >It was truly depressing. Timing is definitely everything in this >game. > >Jeff > >> >>Gruss >>H. >> >>-- >>Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >>HRK >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 14:48:47 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <19980826194848.28435.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, mine still works. It just needs a nudge once in a while at boot up. Is it going to get worse or can I use it for a while? > I agree that there is no cure for stiction but on the older 3 1/2" FF > HDD's I used to gently nudge the spindle flywheel under the drive > board. This would free the head of the platter goo and typically the > drive would spin up and boot at which point a complete backup was > made. > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Re: I'm Back! >Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 8/23/98 1:25 PM > > > > certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly > > against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. >> > > > > stiction. nothing you can do about it. > > > Actually an ex-friend of mine had a technique to 'sticky' drives. The > theory goes if it's hosed anyway and you need to get data off it, you can > do things to it that you wouldn't ordinarily do and what do you have to lose? > > At any rate, I've used it before and it seems to work on X percent of > drives that are totally stuck (especially ones that won't start up even > when whacked). You put the drive top-down (circuit side up) on top of a > nice toasty monitor and just leave it there for several days or weeks. I > don't know if this loosens up some lubricant, expands whatever's sticky > or what but if you take the drive off the monitor and hook it up > immediately and start it up immediately...occasionally you can get it to > spin up and give you your data. > > The opposite of this is a drive I had (old Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI) that > would run for about 2 hours, overheat and 'shut down' (it wouldn't spin > down...it'd just start giving errors and was generally useless). I knew > it was heat because I could extend the time-till-shutdown to about 3 > hours by pointing a small muffin fan at it. I had NO money at the > time...except for rent money I was flat broke...and couldn't afford to > replace the drive and...seeing how it was 1991 and I live in the > backwater state of Iowa, nobody would loan me a replacement. The Mac SE > it was in was also out of warranty. > > At any rate, since it was winter it was cold outside so I wrapped the > drive in a plastic bag, sealed it up with duct tape around the SCSI > cable, set it on the ledge outside the window, closed the window without > squishing the cable and sealed up the crack with duct tape. Left the > machine and the drive on for something like 2 months that way (though my > memory is a bit rusty there) until I could save enough money for a > replacement. I was worried about condensation inside the bag but it > never caused a problem. At one point, the drive slid off the ledge and > was dangling by the SCSI cable and power cable but the duct tape held it > firm. It ran like that for several days until I noticed it wasn't on the > ledge. > > On a related subject, I've seen and had several Syquest 40 meg drives > that wouldn't work and wouldn't work and wouldn't work until you flipped > them upside and then they'd work just fine. Not the cartridge...the > whole drive. > > Which reminds me...I worked at a typesetting shop once and a guy from > another department walks in and tells me he's accidentally formatted his > syquest cartridge and is there any way to get the data back? So, with a > room full of people who knew better I told him, "Oh yeah...if you just > flip the cartridge over, that'll run it backwards so that if you format > it again, that'll do the reverse of formatting it and you data will be > back." I figured he'd know I was kidding but he DIDN'T and starting > walking away to DO IT! I stopped him fortunately and recovered his data > with proper tools. Of course, a couple months later he thrashed the > innards of a $1500 magneto-optical drive by jamming an 80 meg syquest > cartridge into it REAL HARD. I patiently explained to him that when you > hear snapping sounds and grinding metal you're generally doing something > wrong. > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Aug23.132549.1767.58958; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:25:49 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP > id KAA21121; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:34 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA27092 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 > 10:23:28 -0700 > Received: from www.retrocomputing.com (www.retrocomputing.com >[208.141.153.36]) > > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA13688 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:25 > > -0700 > Received: (from wirehead@localhost) by www.retrocomputing.com (8.8.7/8.6.10) >id > > LAA10397; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:24 -0500 > Message-Id: > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:23 -0500 (CDT) > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Wirehead Prime > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: I'm Back! > In-Reply-To: <57d773ed.35dfd743@aol.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 15:10:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808261940.OAA28481@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > The same junk yard also has a Vector and a distressed N* Horizon. Ooh! You should grab both. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Wed Aug 26 15:18:44 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: -- On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:33:01 Jeff Kaneko wrote: >At 10:26 AM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >>On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: >> >>> You know, one of the truly cool S-100 8086 boxes that was available >>> for a long time was the H/Z-100. You could get the all-in-one or >>> separate monitor configuration, color, 8', 5.25" floppies, etc. etc. >>> It ran Mess-DOS as well as H-dos (dual processors). >> >>Yeah, that is a really cool box. I have one with the documentation and >>some software. >> >>> I lusted for one when I was a kid. The other day I found a pair of >>> them smashed to bits at a local surplus dealer. >> >>I was offered one locally (California) a couple weeks ago but the buyer >>wasn't interested in selling it at the price I wanted to buy. If you want >>I can hook you up with him. Perhaps he's interested in going through the >>trouble of shipping it for the right price. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Well that's just it, isn't it? I mean, if I had showed up two days before >I could have gotten them (in working condition) for *NOTHING*. It's not >the kind of thing I'd pay serious money for (even if I had it), but I'd >surely grab one if it were going to be junked. > >The same junk yard also has a Vector and a distressed N* Horizon. > D'oh! I'd almost give my left nut for a N* Horizon. As it is, I know this guy named Ken. I'll gladly give his left nut for one. Tony -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Aug 26 15:24:52 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <1998Aug26.162309.1767.132421@smtp.itgonline.com> O'Toole's Rule states that Murphy (re: Murphy's Law) was an optimist. I'd do a regular backup in anticipation of the inevitable. I had a Mac SE with a stiction prone drive that finally died after a couple months of nudging. The heads can only take so much before they are hopelessly out of alignmnent. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: I'm Back! Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/26/98 3:51 PM Well, mine still works. It just needs a nudge once in a while at boot up. Is it going to get worse or can I use it for a while? > I agree that there is no cure for stiction but on the older 3 1/2" FF > HDD's I used to gently nudge the spindle flywheel under the drive > board. This would free the head of the platter goo and typically the > drive would spin up and boot at which point a complete backup was > made. > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Re: I'm Back! >Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 8/23/98 1:25 PM > > > > certain hard drive of mine won't spin up unless whacked firmly > > against a table? Is there anything I can do? This is a laptop drive. >> > > > > stiction. nothing you can do about it. > > > Actually an ex-friend of mine had a technique to 'sticky' drives. The > theory goes if it's hosed anyway and you need to get data off it, you can > do things to it that you wouldn't ordinarily do and what do you have to lose? > > At any rate, I've used it before and it seems to work on X percent of > drives that are totally stuck (especially ones that won't start up even > when whacked). You put the drive top-down (circuit side up) on top of a > nice toasty monitor and just leave it there for several days or weeks. I > don't know if this loosens up some lubricant, expands whatever's sticky > or what but if you take the drive off the monitor and hook it up > immediately and start it up immediately...occasionally you can get it to > spin up and give you your data. > > The opposite of this is a drive I had (old Miniscribe 20 meg SCSI) that > would run for about 2 hours, overheat and 'shut down' (it wouldn't spin > down...it'd just start giving errors and was generally useless). I knew > it was heat because I could extend the time-till-shutdown to about 3 > hours by pointing a small muffin fan at it. I had NO money at the > time...except for rent money I was flat broke...and couldn't afford to > replace the drive and...seeing how it was 1991 and I live in the > backwater state of Iowa, nobody would loan me a replacement. The Mac SE > it was in was also out of warranty. > > At any rate, since it was winter it was cold outside so I wrapped the > drive in a plastic bag, sealed it up with duct tape around the SCSI > cable, set it on the ledge outside the window, closed the window without > squishing the cable and sealed up the crack with duct tape. Left the > machine and the drive on for something like 2 months that way (though my > memory is a bit rusty there) until I could save enough money for a > replacement. I was worried about condensation inside the bag but it > never caused a problem. At one point, the drive slid off the ledge and > was dangling by the SCSI cable and power cable but the duct tape held it > firm. It ran like that for several days until I noticed it wasn't on the > ledge. > > On a related subject, I've seen and had several Syquest 40 meg drives > that wouldn't work and wouldn't work and wouldn't work until you flipped > them upside and then they'd work just fine. Not the cartridge...the > whole drive. > > Which reminds me...I worked at a typesetting shop once and a guy from > another department walks in and tells me he's accidentally formatted his > syquest cartridge and is there any way to get the data back? So, with a > room full of people who knew better I told him, "Oh yeah...if you just > flip the cartridge over, that'll run it backwards so that if you format > it again, that'll do the reverse of formatting it and you data will be > back." I figured he'd know I was kidding but he DIDN'T and starting > walking away to DO IT! I stopped him fortunately and recovered his data > with proper tools. Of course, a couple months later he thrashed the > innards of a $1500 magneto-optical drive by jamming an 80 meg syquest > cartridge into it REAL HARD. I patiently explained to him that when you > hear snapping sounds and grinding metal you're generally doing something > wrong. > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Aug23.132549.1767.58958; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:25:49 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP > id KAA21121; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:34 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA27092 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 > 10:23:28 -0700 > Received: from www.retrocomputing.com (www.retrocomputing.com >[208.141.153.36]) > > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA13688 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:23:25 > > -0700 > Received: (from wirehead@localhost) by www.retrocomputing.com (8.8.7/8.6.10) >id > > LAA10397; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:24 -0500 > Message-Id: > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:23 -0500 (CDT) > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Wirehead Prime > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: I'm Back! > In-Reply-To: <57d773ed.35dfd743@aol.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug26.155124.1767.59641; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:51:27 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA25115; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:49:05 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id MAA24412 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:48:55 -0700 Received: from hotmail.com (f36.hotmail.com [207.82.250.47]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA23946 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:48:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 28436 invoked by uid 0); 26 Aug 1998 19:48:48 -0000 Received: from 207.78.94.40 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:48:47 PDT Message-Id: <19980826194848.28435.qmail@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:48:47 PDT Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Max Eskin" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Re[2]: I'm Back! Content-Type: text/plain X-Originating-IP: [207.78.94.40] X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 26 15:54:59 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C55E@NT486> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > Oboyoboy! Do these folks have any Barrett Light Fifties? > I always wanted to try out a rifle that could remove a shooter's > shoes > for him! kaBLAMMMMM! ;] > > Nope, out of luck, all they have are pistol and submachine guns, after > all, it's an indoor range, a .50 BMG would go right thru the wall and > the building next door too. Indoor ranges don't have the backstop for > any rifle rounds, so no AKs, FALs, Galils, any of the good stuff either. They'd also have to add some depth and padding behind the firing line. I recall seeing a series of pictures depicting Elmer Keith firing a one-off .50 caliber bolt action(?) single shot out in the back country. The first frame showed Elmer taking aim over the top of a car parked along the edge of a dirt road. The next had him more or less erect and the barrel pointing upwards a bit. In the final frame he was pretty much across the dirt road and the muzzle was aimed at the clouds. Pretty awesome! I think that he still had his boots on though. - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 26 16:09:50 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 26, 98 01:54:59 pm Message-ID: <199808262109.PAA03980@calico.litterbox.com> > They'd also have to add some depth and padding behind the firing line. I > recall seeing a series of pictures depicting Elmer Keith firing a one-off > .50 caliber bolt action(?) single shot out in the back country. The > first frame showed Elmer taking aim over the top of a car parked along > the edge of a dirt road. The next had him more or less erect and the > barrel pointing upwards a bit. In the final frame he was pretty much > across the dirt road and the muzzle was aimed at the clouds. Pretty > awesome! I think that he still had his boots on though. > - don Don: Would you mind privately e-mailing me and telling me who the heck Elmer Keith was? I keep reading about "Elmer Keith would have liked x" where x is some species of large caliber handgun in magazines and I haven't got a clue who he was. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Wed Aug 26 16:16:28 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808262109.PAA03980@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: zzzzz... On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > > They'd also have to add some depth and padding behind the firing line. I > > recall seeing a series of pictures depicting Elmer Keith firing a one-off > > .50 caliber bolt action(?) single shot out in the back country. The > > first frame showed Elmer taking aim over the top of a car parked along > > the edge of a dirt road. The next had him more or less erect and the > > barrel pointing upwards a bit. In the final frame he was pretty much > > across the dirt road and the muzzle was aimed at the clouds. Pretty > > awesome! I think that he still had his boots on though. > > - don > > Don: > > Would you mind privately e-mailing me and telling me who the heck Elmer > Keith was? I keep reading about "Elmer Keith would have liked x" where > x is some species of large caliber handgun in magazines and I haven't got > a clue who he was. > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From peacock at simconv.com Wed Aug 26 16:26:32 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C560@NT486> >Would you mind privately e-mailing me and telling me who the heck Elmer Keith was? Elmer Keith was a well known gunsmith and magazine writer (was it Guns & Ammo?). Among other things he's credited with inventing the .44 magnum pistol round (IIRC) in 1955. Jack Peacock From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 16:31:03 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <19980826213103.13786.qmail@hotmail.com> Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders like this? > >Elmer Keith was a well known gunsmith and magazine writer (was it Guns & >Ammo?). Among other things he's credited with inventing the .44 magnum >pistol round (IIRC) in 1955. > Jack Peacock > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ecloud at goodnet.com Wed Aug 26 16:46:07 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <19980826213103.13786.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 26, 98 02:31:03 pm Message-ID: <199808262146.OAA00241@goodnet.com> > Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and > invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without > owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would > own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for Why not? It can certainly be bought, both new and at auctions. I knew a gunsmith who had a mill and a lathe, and that's the main two pieces of heavy machinery you need to make pretty much anything. (Besides the little stuff like welding equipment, saws, etc.) > the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders > like this? Yeah but it tends to be expensive because you have to make molds for the plastic. So you can spend tens of thousands to get the first prototype made but it gets really cheap to do production quantities once you have done that. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * artificial intelligence * electronics * quantize the universe * VRML * From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 26 16:42:49 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808262109.PAA03980@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > > They'd also have to add some depth and padding behind the firing line. I > > recall seeing a series of pictures depicting Elmer Keith firing a one-off > > .50 caliber bolt action(?) single shot out in the back country. The > > first frame showed Elmer taking aim over the top of a car parked along > > the edge of a dirt road. The next had him more or less erect and the > > barrel pointing upwards a bit. In the final frame he was pretty much > > across the dirt road and the muzzle was aimed at the clouds. Pretty > > awesome! I think that he still had his boots on though. > > - don > > Don: > > Would you mind privately e-mailing me and telling me who the heck Elmer > Keith was? I keep reading about "Elmer Keith would have liked x" where > x is some species of large caliber handgun in magazines and I haven't got > a clue who he was. > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit www.gunbooksales.com for a summary of Keith and the books that he has authored. - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 26 16:48:17 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <19980826213103.13786.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 26, 98 02:31:03 pm Message-ID: <199808262148.PAA04254@calico.litterbox.com> *snip* > How did he 'invent' a gun without > owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would *snip* I think he invented the ammunition. From what I've read, if you come up with a really impressive round in a one-off custom gun and it generates interest, often a manufacturer will manufacture a gun to shoot it. From what I've read on web searches on Mr. Keith (curiosity got the better of me) the .44 magnum started life as the .44 special. Since the round always seems to be associated with Smith and Wesson (courtesy of Dirty Harry, no doubt) I'd hazard a guess and say maybe they were the first ones to build a gun to shoot it? Not all "wildcat" or user developed rounds survive, obviously. Some make it to one company's production, don't sell well, and vanish. Others do better. An example of a less popular type would be the .50 action express. Introduced for the Desert Eagle handgun, I think one other manufacturer has since picked it up. One hesitates to think how much a box of those must cost. I should mention that my interest in firearms comes from studying them for role playing games, rather than actually owning and shooting regularly. I reserve the right to be completely and totally full of poo on my facts. As far as owning a gun, I don't feel the need personally, but if others do I don't have a problem with that. (and I have to say the saturday afternoon recently spent blasting at bowling pins with a semi-auto AK47 was LOTS of fun. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:42:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Parallel-IDE interface for CP/M In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 25, 98 09:30:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/b2d2893c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:52:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Which track was least reliable? In-Reply-To: <980826094311.24200157@timvax.trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Aug 26, 98 09:43:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 909 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/53c02dd2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:32:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:14 2005 Subject: Classic Mags (was: Shame, shame, shame) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980825175354.5cb74d36@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 25, 98 06:58:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 616 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/27bfcc94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 12:34:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame In-Reply-To: <35E374D9.47EF2DF8@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 25, 98 10:37:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/b2878bfd/attachment.ksh From peacock at simconv.com Wed Aug 26 17:00:55 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: prototyping (was OT: BLAM...) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C561@NT486> >Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders like this? There are companies which will build one off prototypes for you. They are usually listed under something like custom electronics or fabrication services in the phone book. Building a prototype is not cheap, the cases, parts, whatever are usually hand machined. Even plastic cases, since an injection mold would run you over $10K in startup costs. Disclaimer: I'm part owner in a company that does this. We have a substantial investment in machine tools (mills, lathes, welding, plasma table), a glass shop (neon and cold cathode tubes), plastic machinery (ovens and router tables), and a paint booth. It's an interesting business, everything from small computers the size of a deck of cards to 2 ton exhibits for computer companies. As for Elmer Keith, he didn't start from scratch. He adapted existing cartridge cases by milling out dies. It's not as complicated as it sounds, some wildcat (i.e. not production) cartridges can be produced with nothing more than hand tools. Jack Peacock From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 16:52:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <19980826213103.13786.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and > invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without > owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would > own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for > the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders > like this? Financing, my boy. Venture capital. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From van at wired.com Wed Aug 26 17:04:33 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: References: <199808262109.PAA03980@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Could people PLEASE email privately regarding GUNS and CARS???? I don't bore y'all with my MOPAR and COIN-OP crap so please don't fill up my inbox with all this off-topic banter...at last load there were upwards of a dozen blatantly off-topic posts. Stop being so darn self absorbed! xoxo van ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Wed Aug 26 17:12:19 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Mac floppy drive question Message-ID: <8098060@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 223 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/a4d0a304/attachment.bin From sethm at loomcom.com Wed Aug 26 17:23:08 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 Message-ID: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 584 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/960f1422/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Aug 26 17:24:33 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Mac floppy drive question References: <8098060@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <35E48B1F.2A5E27EC@bbtel.com> Marion Bates wrote: > Okay, this is probably a dumb question, but will an 800k drive function in a Mac 512k? Since the ROM only recognizes the smaller-size drive, will it just ignore the top R/W head and work fine otherwise? I believe it depends on the ROM version and you're supposed to be able to tell by hitting that hidden reset at the right rear thorugh the vents, or the one next to the reset. You're supposed to get a smiley faced computer I think if it has the proper ROM for adding the 800k floppy, a sad face for the one you have to upgrade for 800k. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Wed Aug 26 17:28:12 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Mac floppy drive question In-Reply-To: <8098060@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 26 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Okay, this is probably a dumb question, but will an 800k drive function in a > Mac 512k? Since the ROM only recognizes the smaller-size drive, will it just > ignore the top R/W head and work fine otherwise? At worst, it can be accessed as an 800k drive after boot time if used in conjunction with the HD20 Init and System Software 1.1 I forget what version of System this means.. 5.something, I think. Not sure the Finder rev matters, so long as it works with that System. I'm still trying to get the definitive word on the HD20 Init: what it does and what it works on. I recently got a 512k to frotz with so I'll get around to finish those trials Real Soon Now. ok r. From rhblake at bbtel.com Wed Aug 26 17:28:22 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 References: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> Message-ID: <35E48C05.E628A3D6@bbtel.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > (Normally, when I buy really heavy things they *roll*. This thing > doesn't roll :) You know those angle iron carts they use for bread carts and other similar rack moving? They haold older tractor engines fine so if you can "borrow" one and fit a 3/4 inch plywood (or a series of 2x6's) in the bottom it should handle a lousy 148 lbs. The hard drive is probably immobile to reduce possibility of head crash. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From erd at infinet.com Wed Aug 26 17:42:31 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 26, 98 03:23:08 pm Message-ID: <199808262242.SAA15781@user2.infinet.com> > > Bleh, > > Well, I did something silly. I bid $26 on an RA81 (DEC) harddrive at > WeirdStuff Warehouse, and I won it. Very silly. > This means, unfortunately, that I'm going to have to move the damn thing. I hope you live in town. > As I understand it, RA81's weigh 148 pounds. I need some seriously > good tips about how to move the thing without a) killing myself and b) > destroying the drive :) There are two interlocks to check - the white head lock lever on the HDA, near the front, and the motor disengage cable. The cable is tricky, because, IIRC, there are two different release mechanisms - a lever and a cable with a pull handle that has an embedded brass bead that hangs up on a metal clip. In either case, you don't want the belt under tension when you move the drive, lest you wiggle the platters back and forth past the heads. > (Normally, when I buy really heavy things they *roll*. This thing > doesn't roll :) Use a steeper hill. It'll roll. ;-) I have a couple of these things. Fortunately, I just got a pair of RA70's that will prevent me from having to use an RA81 on a uVAXII. I can't bear to throw away the RA81's, because they do work. Ah well... that problem will take care of itself after enough power-on hours have elapsed. ObFolklore: working customer support, I got a complaint that the RA81's at a university were dying at a rate of 1 per month. Our customer complained to DEC about the reliability but were told "those drives have a 50,000 MTBF". They had enough drives that DEC predicted a failure every few weeks. Needless to say, the university upgraded to a different drive as soon as possible. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 17:56:55 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Shame, shame, shame Message-ID: <19980826225655.24748.qmail@hotmail.com> Of course, the amount is irrelevant. Particle accelerator experiments have not been able to split lusers up into any constituent parts. In fact, they may be the elemental particles of intelligence. Of course, if Congress funds my new Me^H^H ultra high-powered particle accelerator, we'll be able to test this once and for all. In short, even if your rounded up all of the lusers, you couldn't destroy them. >luser-antiluser[1] pairs are produced wherever there's enough (minimal!) >energy :-).... > >[1] An antiluser is not clueful, right! > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 17:58:43 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808262258.AA00465@world.std.com> < Hm, interesting. I had always thought that DEC made all of their own si < Does anybody know when DEC started rolling their own? They did and also used harris, AMD and others as silicon foundries as the then dec facility was capacity limited. DEC did most of their own design or formed partnerships with others. The earliest was the 6100 series. Later PDP11 and special support chips. < I think the burning question would be: How does one debug somehting < like this? the chipset or the Pcode? Pcode was easy as any other asm lang. The chipset had enough stuff available externally o debug easily. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 17:58:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <199808262258.AA00586@world.std.com> < Dual processors? Another I've never heard of. My 8086 databook says < that up to four can be wired together, but I've never heard of anyone < doing it. Did this particular one work well? You could do more than four, it took a little more work as the simple parts to do it were roll your own and it was pretty impressive. later on NCR would have a box with 4 486/50s and it could wail. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 17:59:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: I'm Back! Message-ID: <199808262259.AA00761@world.std.com> < Well, mine still works. It just needs a nudge once in a while at < boot up. Is it going to get worse or can I use it for a while? It may get worse or better running it all the time is best. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 17:04:23 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808261935.OAA28323@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 26, 98 02:27:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1223 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/ade8d5b2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 17:17:30 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808262146.OAA00241@goodnet.com> from "Shawn Rutledge" at Aug 26, 98 02:46:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1622 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/f31461e4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 26 18:21:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 26, 98 03:23:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980827/03ff3b54/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 26 18:31:57 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: a2 power supplies Message-ID: <199808262331.RAA04994@calico.litterbox.com> Hi gang. FYI Jameco has power supplies for apple2,2+,2e, and 2GS. 49.95 each, 60 watt units, original equipment style. If you're thinking of one of these you might ALSO want to think about something called Bugg power - a guy on the a2 newsgroup (comp.sys.apple2) who takes pc XT power supplies and adapts them to plug into apples. Since the average XT PS is 145 watts, the apple no longer has power problems (and you barely have to run the PS's fan) and it gets the power supply and all that heat out of the case altogether. (it sits on the floor ala C=64 power brick). I've never used one of these things, but the reviews from people who have are glowing. As for heat, I noticed in my GS last night it gets right toasty in there, and the power supply is almost too hot to touch. I expect to be PS shopping shortly. :( -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 18:46:23 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <19980826234623.29031.qmail@hotmail.com> But modern SMP NT boxen can only multiprocess if the task is especially adjusted for it. Apparently, NT itself will not take advantage of the second processor, unless the app (e.g. Photoshop) has the featuer. Is this always the case, or different in other systems? > > >< Dual processors? Another I've never heard of. My 8086 databook says >< that up to four can be wired together, but I've never heard of anyone >< doing it. Did this particular one work well? > >You could do more than four, it took a little more work as the simple >parts to do it were roll your own and it was pretty impressive. > > >later on NCR would have a box with 4 486/50s and it could wail. > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 26 18:33:38 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together In-Reply-To: <000d01bdd0e3$d9c59480$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980826183338.006b96f4@pop3.concentric.net> Ok with me how's that sound to you Eric ? Anyone else in the area that would like to join us is welcome. John At 06:22 AM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >But I am south, I live in Burnsville. >How about Chilli's on county rd 42 across from the mall. >Same time, Same day. >(I just like tequilaberries) >Francois >------------------------------------------------------------- >Visit the desperately in need of update >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >-----Original Message----- >From: Poesie De La Fenetre >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 11:59 PM >Subject: Re: Twin cities get together > > >>Ditto for me... I'm in eagan, and that's quite a haul. maybe you should >>come south :P >> >>-Eric >> >> >> >>John R. Keys Jr. wrote: >>> >>> If it's just two of us showing up let's put it on hold since it's a nice >>> drive for me from Burnsville. Maybe you and I can get together and go on >a >>> shopping spree one weekend. I plan on going to a big flea market this >>> Sunday if you want to go also let me know as it's up north. John >>> At 07:26 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> >Just a quick reninder: >>> >Friday August 28, tequilaberries, 6:00pm >>> >Please let me know if you are planning to attend, I'll be there early to >>> >reserve a table. >>> >Francois >>> >------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >Visit the desperately in need of update >>> >Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 26 19:01:38 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980826183338.006b96f4@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Ok with me how's that sound to you Eric ? Anyone else in the area that > would like to join us is welcome. John A suggestion: a group of us in the Bay Area have created a list-serve to discuss events and interest specific to our local area (anyone in the Bay Area is invited to join). Perhaps one of you could create a mailing list that would serve you folks in the mid-west so that you can keep local discussions of off the main list. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Aug 26 19:04:57 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <19980827000458.21818.qmail@hotmail.com> Is this any easier with plastic parts? Is there any easy way to make molds? I don't want to do it, just curious (modern appliances usually depend on a single .5 cm plastic cog which of course tends to break or wear out after a few months' use) >FOr the record, I have absolutely no interest in firearms... > >> Why not? It can certainly be bought, both new and at auctions. >> I knew a gunsmith who had a mill and a lathe, and that's the main >> two pieces of heavy machinery you need to make pretty much anything. >> (Besides the little stuff like welding equipment, saws, etc.) > >Actually, you can do a suprising amount with a small lathe (small meaning >about 3" centre height, 18" between centres). Including milling. If you >have a vertical slide on the saddle (and, better still also a vertical >milling attachment), there's little you can't do that you could do on a >milling machine. Sure you'll have to work slowly and take light cuts, but >you can do it. > >To go back on topic, a small lathe will make a lot of bits for computer >peripherals. Rollers, spindles, pulleys, gears, etc can all be made >pretty easily. In fact for something like a simple nylon roller for a >printer, it's actually quicker to turn the part than to try to get a part >number from the manufacturer! > >The cost of a good small non-CNC (so ideal for one-offs, but not for >production) lathe would be about \pounds 3000, I guess. Not impossible to >have at home. In fact almost all model engineers (the sort of madmen who >make steam engines) have such a machine. > >Metal casting is also possible at home. You can make the pattern on the >lathe, make a mould using foundry sand and melt the metal either in a >coke furnace, or preferably an electricly heated one. Not trivial to do, >but not beyond what some people will try. In fact I must have a go one day. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 26 19:23:16 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: a2 power supplies Message-ID: <443edb59.35e4a70e@aol.com> His name is steve buggie, and i've included part of an email he sent to me concering my $5 apple gs with a bad ps. he's pretty knowledeable, and has been very helpful to me with sending me diagnostice disks and other disk goodies for my apples. he also redoes disk ][ drives with variable speed control and a manually selected write protect switch. david >>If you're thinking of one of these you might ALSO want to think about something >>called Bugg power - a guy on the a2 newsgroup (comp.sys.apple2) who takes >>pc XT power supplies and adapts them to plug into apples. BUGG-POWER IIGS external power supply (converted from IBM) $27 for 150 watts, or $30 for 200 watts; add $5.00 shipping. It rests on the floor, with 5 ft cable to connect to the IIgs motherboard via the rear panel of the IIgs. I've made 192 units in 2 1/2 years! Steve Buggie **=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=** ** Stephen Buggie, Psychology, Univ. of New Mexico, Gallup NM 87301 ** ** buggie@unm.edu voice: (505) 863-7504 or 863-2390 ** ** GALLUP NM: Home of Teddy Roosevelt's 1898 "Rough Riders" Cavalry ** **=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=** From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 26 19:25:37 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: I thought you just had to run something in the I386 directory in NT or something to make it use dual CPUs. i think the program is irrelevant; i've never heard of dual cpu winNT programs before. In a message dated 8/26/98 7:50:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maxeskin@hotmail.com writes: > But modern SMP NT boxen can only multiprocess if the task is > especially adjusted for it. Apparently, NT itself will not take > advantage of the second processor, unless the app (e.g. Photoshop) > has the featuer. Is this always the case, or different in other > systems? ' From peacock at simconv.com Wed Aug 26 18:47:31 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C563@NT486> > >I'd love to see a manual for the chipset and microcode information. > > I think the burning question would be: How does one debug somehting > like this? For a commercial company, microcode is tested and debugged on software simulators before the hardware is even completed. Once the architecture is defined, software is developed in parallel with the hardware to simulate the components. Microcode is tested on the simulator, much easier than using a scope and analyzer. Course, the component descriptions given to the simulator programmers (these are usually programmers with a good EE background who understand boards at the chip level) had better be accurate. And in parallel to that, an emulator is also done for the target instruction set. This allows systems programmers to develop the initial assembler, compiler and operating system for the new CPU. That's how a completely new CPU design, with no backward compatibility, can appear all at once. By the time the hardware prototype is ready, there is a complete set of diagnostics and an OS to boot up. In theory that is ... Tracey Kidder's book, The Soul Of a New Machine, detailed some of that process when Data General switched from the 16-bit Nova to the 32-bit Eclipse. Jack Peacock From fauradon at pclink.com Wed Aug 26 21:06:48 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together Message-ID: <006601bdd15f$5a13fe80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> I believe it is relevant to the list for people who might be in the area at the time. If I'm trveling to the bay area and see that there is a get-together going on at the same time I would make sure to attend. This invitation is not reserved to people living in the Twin-Cities but to all and that includes travellers. I used to do quite a bit of travel for work and had nothing to do with my evenings. Sure the chances are slim but still it is worth the added messages. It sure beats IMHO discussiond about guns or other means of destruction. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon >A suggestion: a group of us in the Bay Area have created a list-serve to >discuss events and interest specific to our local area (anyone in the Bay >Area is invited to join). Perhaps one of you could create a mailing list >that would serve you folks in the mid-west so that you can keep local >discussions of off the main list. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 26 21:18:01 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> Message-ID: <199808270218.MAA10750@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 03:23 PM 26-08-98 -0700, Seth J. Morabito wrote: >Well, I did something silly. I bid $26 on an RA81 (DEC) harddrive at >WeirdStuff Warehouse, and I won it. > >This means, unfortunately, that I'm going to have to move the damn thing. >As I understand it, RA81's weigh 148 pounds. I need some seriously >good tips about how to move the thing without a) killing myself and b) >destroying the drive :) OK, it's not that hard to lock the heads down which is basically all you need to do before moving the RA81. I should point out that I moved an 11/44 about 50Km with not only the heads not locked down on the RA81, but it wasn't even secure in the rack. Every time we went right, the drive rolled out, and going left make it slide (rapidly) back into the rack. Surprisingly! the drive still worked when we arrived at work - we hadn't planned to use it, so I hadn't taken the normal precautions... Open the drive up (there are two vertical slots in the front of the drive which release the catch). There's a white plastic lever, move to the locked position. Close lid. Carry (this is very much a two person job). Reverse process before using :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Aug 26 21:45:01 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Mac floppy drive question In-Reply-To: <8098060@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from Marion Bates at "Aug 26, 98 06:12:19 pm" Message-ID: <199808270245.WAA14118@crobin.home.org> > Okay, this is probably a dumb question, but will an 800k drive function in a > Mac 512k? Since the ROM only recognizes the smaller-size drive, will it just > ignore the top R/W head and work fine otherwise? Actually, IIRC, it will recognize the drive as double sided, *but* you will still be limited to the old MFS format, rather than the newer HFS. <> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 26 21:42:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808261357.GAA19121@mxu2.u.washington.edu> References: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C559@NT486> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980826214216.2ed78e6a@intellistar.net> At 07:59 AM 8/26/98 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Oboyoboy! Do these folks have any Barrett Light Fifties? > I always wanted to try out a rifle that could remove a shooter's shoes >for him! kaBLAMMMMM! ;] Try it! You'll like it! I have a .50 BMG bolt action rifle. The first time I fired it I clobrbered me in the eye and gave me a shinner, broke the lens in my glasses, bent the frames and bent the scope tube! The .50 hurts on BOTH ends! Great for shooting up old computers! Joe > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 26 21:48:28 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C55E@NT486> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980826214828.2fff30ee@intellistar.net> At 09:08 AM 8/26/98 -0700, you wrote: > > >Yeah, I'd like to have a Barrett too, but $5K is a bit too steep for me, >unless someone would like to trade for a nice IMSAI with front panel? >Then there's the cost of dies and a reloader for .50BMG rounds... Try $50 EACH for dies and a 20,000 lb hydraulic press for reloading! Joe > Jack Peacock > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 26 22:02:31 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: References: <199808262146.OAA00241@goodnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980826220231.2ffffd66@intellistar.net> At 11:17 PM 8/26/98 +0100, you wrote: >[Metalwork at home] > >FOr the record, I have absolutely no interest in firearms... Probably just as well since you're in the UK! > >Metal casting is also possible at home. You can make the pattern on the >lathe, make a mould using foundry sand and melt the metal either in a >coke furnace, or preferably an electricly heated one. Not trivial to do, >but not beyond what some people will try. In fact I must have a go one day. Look for the series of books written by Dave Gingerly. He has an entire series that explains how to build a charcoal fueled furnace and then use it to build a lathe and mill and all kinds of accessories like rotary tables. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 22:20:27 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <199808270320.AA25166@world.std.com> < Curious. Same goes for people who aren't in a large company and < invent various other things. How did he 'invent' a gun without < owning the necessary tools (at least I doubt a magazine writer would < own this stuff) to process metal? Also, how did Woz make a case for < the Apple ][, etc? Are there companies that take single orders < like this? Well first off there are companies that if you supply the drawing and pay dearly they will make the requested item. I'd suspect the Gunsmith would possess the tools needed. It doesn't take a larg machine shop to do many of the processes needed to make a firearm same applies for computer. A case can be made of easily machined plastics or even wood and painted for protos. I made a system box years ago out of wood to simulated the look and feel of a quality epoxy glass resin, no majik other than knowing how. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 26 22:21:02 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <199808270321.AA27119@world.std.com> < Is this any easier with plastic parts? Is there any easy way to make < molds? I don't want to do it, just curious (modern appliances < usually depend on a single .5 cm plastic cog which of course tends < to break or wear out after a few months' use) generally plastic is easier to work than metal. depending on the part you can machine it out of a block of similar material. Used to make a lot of parts out of DERLIN, teflon and Nylon Allisn From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 26 22:27:29 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808270321.AA27119@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 26, 98 11:21:02 pm Message-ID: <199808270327.VAA06627@calico.litterbox.com> Machineshop stuff... You know, you can buy a drillpress/milling machine/lathe combo from Smithy for about 1200 bucks US... They send me literature. To tie two threads together, they advertise in gun magazines a lot, and I have to say I'm impressed that some of y'all are *making your own* mechanism parts for computers... -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 26 23:53:34 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: I've been playing with the PDP-11 emulator some the last couple of days under Linux (it's a lot quieter than the real thing), and am wondering about having a second console. I see in the configuration that it has two consoles, but I can't figure out how to access the second console. Any ideas? Is it possible to hang a VT off the serial port and have the emulator talk to that? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 27 00:12:09 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980826221209.007758ec@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hmmm, I would suggest that you try to attach the extra tty device to /dev/ttyd0 or /dev/ttyd1, hang a terminal off of the serial port, and test. I have never tried this but will do so tomorrow. Ah, the joy of vacation time! Kevin At 08:53 PM 98/08/26 -0800, you wrote: >I've been playing with the PDP-11 emulator some the last couple of days >under Linux (it's a lot quieter than the real thing), and am wondering >about having a second console. I see in the configuration that it has two >consoles, but I can't figure out how to access the second console. Any >ideas? Is it possible to hang a VT off the serial port and have the >emulator talk to that? > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mmcmanus at direct.ca Thu Aug 27 00:31:38 1998 From: mmcmanus at direct.ca (Mike McManus) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <008301bdd17b$f7959580$b7f8aecc@mmcmanus> subscibe mike mcmanus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980826/2d8d25ea/attachment.html From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 27 01:30:28 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Looking for parts... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980826233028.00983af0@agora.rdrop.com> Picked up a new stack of systems, one of which is an Ithica Intersystem DPS-1. If you have ever seen one, it looks suspiciously like a PDP-11 console. Or at least it would if this one had its dress panel... On the longshot front then, does anyone have a spare (extra, random, looking for a home) front bezel for one of these units? Or even a (more or less) complete chassis looking for a new home? It is also missing a couple of switch levers. The nice bright orange ones. This unit even has a bit of a history. Before it came to me it had been a development system at Digital Research (yes, THAT one) In fact it came along with a great deal of materials most of which have been forwarded along to Tim Olmstead for addition to the CP/M Source Archives. Apparently, they did not have much use for the dress panel on the machine (hardware tinkering and such) and it had been lost for some time before the machine came to me. (darn) So... any help appreciated as always! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 26 22:08:01 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: subscribe In-Reply-To: <008301bdd17b$f7959580$b7f8aecc@mmcmanus> Message-ID: <199808270711.DAA02461@smtp.interlog.com> On 26 Aug 98 at 22:31, Mike McManus wrote: > subscibe mike mcmanus > Ahh, and welcome to the American Gun Assoc mailing list where ocasionally we talk about computers. ciao larry PS Sorry you had to be my straight man. No offense lwalker@interlog.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 27 02:20:07 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 26, 98 08:53:34 pm Message-ID: <199808270720.AAA26666@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 639 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980827/496c6f90/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 27 03:28:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together In-Reply-To: <006601bdd15f$5a13fe80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Francois wrote: > I believe it is relevant to the list for people who might be in the area at > the time. But if you have your own local mailing list, then you can talk about us behind our backs. We talk about you guys all the time :-) You can setup your own list using a service like www.listbot.com, for example, or roll your own if you've got your own net.boxen (like all of us SV nerds). -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 27 03:35:12 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Laser 3000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I'm still wondering if this was advertised as, or is supposed to be, an > Apple ][ like machine. The ad I have calls it Apple Compatible, but the ad is from Computer Direct and not VTL themselves. I don't know what VTL called it. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From franke at sbs.de Thu Aug 27 06:40:49 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808270924.LAA19296@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>I'd love to see a manual for the chipset and microcode information. > I think the burning question would be: How does one debug somehting > like this? Like any other new processor. In fact, the microcode instructions are nothing else than the 'real' instrructions of the CPU. And the microcode of a CPU is nothing more than a basic, build in interpreter for the 'official' instruction set. So the development is (almost) the same as for any Interpreter you want to write fo a naked system. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From fauradon at pclink.com Thu Aug 27 06:33:22 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together Message-ID: <000801bdd1ae$802401c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Francois wrote: > >> I believe it is relevant to the list for people who might be in the area at >> the time. > >But if you have your own local mailing list, then you can talk about us >behind our backs. We talk about you guys all the time :-) You can setup That's the main reason I wanted to meet my fellow collectors of the MidWest so we can talk about you guys >your own list using a service like www.listbot.com, for example, or roll >your own if you've got your own net.boxen (like all of us SV nerds). We have a few of those too but we save them for serious stuff: Real time snow flake counter available in streaming video, mosquito forecast for every lake in Minnesota. You see with all those interesting things goin on that leaves only one place to post for our get-together, West Coast collector bashing reunions. Would it be more proper to post something in the following form? ------------------------------------ | | | | | o o | | | | | U | | | | | | MIDWEST VCD Beta 0.1 | | | | Friday August 28 1998 | | | | Chilli's on county road 42 | | | | 6:00 pm | | | | | | Any one who cares can come | | | ------------------------------------ I could add a list of guest speakers and a schedule of events. > >-- Doug Yes I agree that the discussion about the details is probably noise for most of you but it's the best way to reach all that would be interested. The subject line is clear enough to decide wether you want to read the post or not and at about 100 bytes a post it does not constitute a "waste of bandwith". Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon From pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com Thu Aug 27 08:36:00 1998 From: pechter at babel.ho.lucent.com (pechter@babel.ho.lucent.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: <199808262242.SAA15781@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 26, 98 06:42:31 pm Message-ID: <199808271336.JAA07248@babel.ho.lucent.com> > ObFolklore: working customer support, I got a complaint that the RA81's at > a university were dying at a rate of 1 per month. Our customer complained > to DEC about the reliability but were told "those drives have a 50,000 MTBF". > They had enough drives that DEC predicted a failure every few weeks. Needless > to say, the university upgraded to a different drive as soon as possible. ObSupposedFact: The reason for the failure was contamination on head 13 caused by a vendor (without DEC's OK) changing the clue that held the pressure equalization filter in place. The new glue had specs similar to the old discontinued glue, with one difference: the new one would liquify and flow at high temperatures. The DEC HDA's before the glue change were pretty good. The ECO's released up until them were mostly electronics changes. The contamination caused major failures on drives just out of factory and it took a while for the analysis to point out the glue. Bill who used to work for DEC and made a lot of OT swapping HDA's. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill Pechter | Lucent Technologies | Voice 732-946-1106 | Fax 732-946-9146| | 943 Holmdel Road, Holmdel, NJ 07733-2013 | pechter@lucent.com | | This message brought to you by the letters PDP and the numbers 11 and 45 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From gentry at zk3.dec.com Thu Aug 27 09:27:03 1998 From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's emulator Message-ID: <9808271427.AA22414@kamlia.zk3.dec.com> >I've been playing with the PDP-11 emulator some the last couple of days >under Linux (it's a lot quieter than the real thing), and am wondering >about having a second console. I see in the configuration that it has two >consoles, but I can't figure out how to access the second console. Any >ideas? Is it possible to hang a VT off the serial port and have the >emulator talk to that? Where do you get the idea that it has two consoles? In the file pdp11_stddev.c, there are definitions for the console input service (tti) and the console output service (tto). Those services, combined, are one terminal. I don't see anything about another terminal. (I'm looking in sources for v3.2c of the emulator) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 27 09:20:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <199808270720.AAA26666@squeep.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980827092044.00bd8b10@pc> At 12:20 AM 8/27/98 -0700, Seth J. Morabito wrote: >Speaking of the emulator... I've sometimes wished there were more FAQs and tutorials for emulators like this. For that matter, for the preservation of any old machine... so much knowledge isn't written down, much less on the web. If twenty years from now, someone gets a PDP-11 without docs, who will they go to to learn to use it? - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 27 09:29:19 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980827092919.00c03400@pc> At 08:25 PM 8/26/98 EDT, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: >I thought you just had to run something in the I386 directory in NT or >something to make it use dual CPUs. i think the program is irrelevant; i've >never heard of dual cpu winNT programs before. It's called "uptomp.exe". More than one processor under WinNT makes it almost tolerable. There are plenty of horsepower-hungry multithreaded apps out there. Just letting the OS delegate tasks to each CPU makes a big difference. (This does not explain, however, why it takes my dual PPro, 200 Mhz, 163 meg RAM, SCSI system about ten seconds to start Java, though.) - John From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Thu Aug 27 09:38:55 1998 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: xyzzy? In-Reply-To: <199808270702.AAA17579@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Bill wrote: >Data General OS's... > >(I was told it was on machines from the Nova through the Eclipse). >I'm not sure but I think the MV8000 had it as well. > >Bill Yes, there was a system file on the MV8000 called XYZZY but entering XYZZY at a terminal did nothing (as I recall.. it's been a long time) Of course, XYZZY did wonderful things in the original Adventure game which used to keep me busy during boring sessions working at the computer center! (That and Hack on the old PCs) - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@mcw.edu From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 27 10:39:14 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's emulator In-Reply-To: <9808271427.AA22414@kamlia.zk3.dec.com> Message-ID: >Where do you get the idea that it has two consoles? In the file >pdp11_stddev.c, there are definitions for the console input service >(tti) and the console output service (tto). Those services, combined, >are one terminal. I don't see anything about another terminal. > >(I'm looking in sources for v3.2c of the emulator) Ah, heh, I sort of mistook those for two consoles. Opps. (Now why didn't I realize that, sheesh) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Thu Aug 27 09:52:24 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:15 2005 Subject: Mac floppy drive question Message-ID: <8110702@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- John Ruschmeyer wrote: > Mac 512k? Since the ROM only recognizes the smaller-size drive, will it just > ignore the top R/W head and work fine otherwise? Actually, IIRC, it will recognize the drive as double sided, *but* you will still be limited to the old MFS format, rather than the newer HFS. <> --- end of quote --- I thought the old format went hand-in-hand with one-sided disks. So I could use 800k floppies in MFS format? If so, then what was the point of the 512ke? -- MB From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 10:15:13 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808271515.AA14746@world.std.com> >Speaking of the emulator... > >I'm curious if anyone has any more disk images I can experiment with? >Technically, the license included with the emulator covers all older >DEC operating systems, for non-commercial emulator use only. I would >LOVE to get a disk or tape image of a full RSTS or RSX11-M+ environment >I could play with on the emulator. Thank you for pointing this out... if, in fact, this is as it appears (and I just down-loaded the rt image from gatekeeper to read the license), then we seem to be able to run RT-11 V5.3 or earlier, RSTS V9.6 or earlier, or RSX-11M V4.3 or earlier. If so, and I want to confirm this first, I have a copy of the V5.3 distribution of RT-11 I could make available... >Does anyone have such disk images available? And could they share them? >(Unless I'm very much mistaken, it's legal under the emulator license) It sure seems to be... I thought it used to state (for example) an execute-only (RT^2) version of RT V4.0... This is a nice development. I'll check it out today... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 10:19:57 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's emulator Message-ID: <199808271519.AA18797@world.std.com> "Zane H. Healy" Wrote: >>Where do you get the idea that it has two consoles? In the file >>pdp11_stddev.c, there are definitions for the console input service >>(tti) and the console output service (tto). Those services, combined, >>are one terminal. I don't see anything about another terminal. >> >>(I'm looking in sources for v3.2c of the emulator) > >Ah, heh, I sort of mistook those for two consoles. Opps. (Now why >didn't I realize that, sheesh) Of course, it wouldn't take much to create a file, pdp11_tt.c, which essentially duplicated the code in pdp11_stddev.c, at least with regards to the terminal input and output service, and allow that device to be attached to a /dev/ttynn device on your system... Heck, it's a computer... all you need is the code... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Aug 27 11:09:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: xyzzy? Message-ID: <19980827160940.21010.qmail@hotmail.com> And what might this command do? > > >Bill wrote: > >>Data General OS's... >> >>(I was told it was on machines from the Nova through the Eclipse). >>I'm not sure but I think the MV8000 had it as well. >> >>Bill > >Yes, there was a system file on the MV8000 called XYZZY but entering XYZZY >at a terminal did nothing (as I recall.. it's been a long time) > >Of course, XYZZY did wonderful things in the original Adventure game which >used to keep me busy during boring sessions working at the computer >center! (That and Hack on the old PCs) > >- Ron Kneusel > rkneusel@mcw.edu > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Thu Aug 27 11:25:29 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: xyzzy? In-Reply-To: <19980827160940.21010.qmail@hotmail.com> from Max Eskin at "Aug 27, 98 09:09:40 am" Message-ID: <199808271625.MAA05514@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > And what might this command do? > > > > I think it echoed "Nothing happens" just like adventure used to. Bill From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 27 12:06:40 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: <199808262223.PAA25166@squeep.com> Message-ID: <13383162387.13.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Help moving RA81?] Hehehe... *bangs his on the lid* Good luck... Oh, and LOCK THE FSCKING HEADS! There's a lever under the cover. Stick a flathead screwdriver thru the center cooling hole on the front panel and lift. It's a white handle, fairly obvious. A dolly helps when moving these suckers... ------- From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 27 14:59:29 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <8172@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808271807.NAA09936@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? I have one in seriously distressed condition, but it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration project. Jeff From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 27 15:07:41 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Northstar, Anyone? In-Reply-To: <8500@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808271815.NAA09982@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? I have one in seriously distressed condition, but it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration project. Jeff P.S.: I'm sorry I botched the SUBJECT: for my previous message From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Thu Aug 27 13:07:55 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? Message-ID: I live for serious restoration projects and want a N* Horizon badly. Tony -- On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:59:29 Jeff Kaneko wrote: >Guys: > >How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? >I have one in seriously distressed condition, but >it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone >who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration >project. > >Jeff > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 27 13:04:14 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: WTB: Hard Drives Message-ID: <01bdd1e5$19d8da80$3728a2ce@laptop> I need IDE hard drives, 200 or 300 MB on up. Please e-mail privately. manney@lrbcg.com From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Thu Aug 27 13:16:46 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Northstar, Anyone? Message-ID: Hehehe... I'll re-reply then :) I'm in to serious restoration projects and would love a N* Horizon. Tony -- On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:07:41 Jeff Kaneko wrote: > >Guys: > >How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? >I have one in seriously distressed condition, but >it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone >who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration >project. > >Jeff > >P.S.: I'm sorry I botched the SUBJECT: for my previous message > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 27 13:09:53 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Teeny Tiny Jumpers (reprise) Message-ID: <01bdd1e5$e42b4980$3728a2ce@laptop> Grant sent me some, but they weren't teeny tiny enough. These are 3/32" across, but the pins are only about 1/16" tall. Anyone have any? Thanks manney@lrbcg.com "2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2" From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 27 13:11:54 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba MK134FA-I hard drive Message-ID: <01bdd1e6$2bf67fa0$3728a2ce@laptop> My books do not list the above ST-506/412 interfaced drive. Anyone have info? Thanks manney@lrbcg.com From manney at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 27 13:14:18 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Troubleshooter Software (offtopic) Message-ID: <01bdd1e6$8192b280$3728a2ce@laptop> I just ordered ForeFront's "The Troubleshooter" for evaluation. Anyone have any experience with it? Is it any good? manney@lrbcg.com From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 27 13:20:53 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Mentec License for Emulators References: Message-ID: <35E5A384.D7DD28E6@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > This might answer a few of the questions, I just dug this up out of the > Supnick emulator distribution: > > LICENSE AGREEMENT > > This Agreement, dated ________________, is entered into by Mentec Inc., a > Massachusetts Company, located at 55 Technology Drive, Lowell, MA 01851, > U.S.A. (MENTEC), and _____________________________________________ having a > residence at __________________________________________________________ > (CUSTOMER). > > Whereas, MENTEC owns the rights to the following PDP-11 Operating Systems > and associated layered products (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E V9.6 or prior, > RSX-11M V4.3 or prior, RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior) (SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY) > and is prepared to grant a non-exclusive license to use such > SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY for personal, non-commercial purposes; > > Whereas, CUSTOMER desires to enter into a License Agreement which will > allow CUSTOMER to use such software technology at his or her residence for > personal, non-commercial purposes; > > MENTEC and CUSTOMER agree as follows: > > 1 DEFINITIONS > > SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY shall mean the binary versions of the PDP-11 Operating > Systems (RT-11 V5.3 or prior, RSTS/E V9.6 or prior, RSX-11M V4.3 or prior, > RSX-11M PLUS V3.0 or prior), and associated utilities and layered products > that run on PDP-11 computers. > > MENTEC?S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS shall mean MENTEC?s patent, copyright > and trade secret rights in its SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. > > EMULATOR shall mean software owned by Digital Equipment Corporation that > emulates the operation of a PDP-11 processor and allows PDP-11 programs and > operating systems to run on non-PDP-11 systems. > > 2 LICENSE GRANT > > MENTEC grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license > under MENTEC's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and copy the SOFTWARE > TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses in conjunction with the > EMULATOR. > > 3 TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND ACCEPTANCE > > 3.1 CUSTOMER is responsible for obtaining copies of SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY and > accepts the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY "AS IS". > > 3.2 MENTEC is under no obligation to supply SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY, > documentation, error corrections or updates to the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY if > or when they become available, or to provide training, support or > consulting for the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. > > 4 WARRANTY DISCLAIMER/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY > > MENTEC DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO ANY SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY > LICENSED TO CUSTOMER HEREUNDER, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF > MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL MENTEC BE LIABLE FOR ANY > SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER > RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE OR DATA, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, > NEGLIGENCE, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY INFRINGEMENT OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, > ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF ANY SOFTWARE > TECHNOLOGY LICENSED HEREUNDER. > > 5 INDEMNITY > > CUSTOMER will hold MENTEC harmless against all liabilities, demands, > damages, expenses, or losses arising out of use by CUSTOMER of SOFTWARE > TECHNOLOGY or information furnished under this Agreement. > > 6 TERM AND TERMINATION > > 6.1 This Agreement shall be effective until otherwise terminated. Either > party may terminate this Agreement at any time upon 30 days written notice. > > 6.2 If CUSTOMER shall fail to perform or observe any of the terms and > conditions to be performed or observed by it under this Agreement, MENTEC > may in its sole discretion thereafter elect to terminate this Agreement, > and this Agreement and all the obligations owed and rights granted herein > to CUSTOMER shall immediately terminate. > > 6.3 The parties agree that the termination of this Agreement shall not > release either party from any other liability which shall have accrued to > the other party at the time such termination becomes effective, nor affect > in any manner the survival of any right, duty or obligation of either party. > > 6.4 In the event of any termination of this Agreement for any reason, > CUSTOMER shall delete all original and all whole or partial copies and > derivatives of the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY from his or her computer system. > CUSTOMER further shall cease to use and distribute the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY > in all forms immediately upon the date of termination. > > 7 GENERAL TERMS > > 7.1 This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Commonwealth of > Massachusetts. > > 7.2 This Agreement imposes personal obligations on CUSTOMER. CUSTOMER shall > not assign any rights under this Agreement not specifically transferable by > its terms without the written consent of MENTEC. > > 7.3 The SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY obtained under this Agreement may be subject to > US and other government export control regulations. CUSTOMER assures that > it will comply with these regulations whenever it exports or re-exports a > controlled product or technical data obtained from MENTEC or any product > produced directly from the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. > > 7.4 The waiver of a breach hereunder may be effected only by a writing > signed by the waiving party and shall not constitute a waiver of any other > breach. > > 7.5 CUSTOMER acknowledges that he has read this Agreement, understands it > and agrees to be bound by its terms and further agrees that it is the > complete and exclusive statement of the Agreement between the parties which > supersedes all communications and understanding between the parties > relating to the subject matter of this Agreement. > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | I think there may be interest here as well. I messed up the address the first attempt. Megan says she has a V5.3 of RT-11 to be made available. And I think someone else just mentioned that they had acquired a set of RX50 for V5.3 of RT-11. Happy computing. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 27 15:23:34 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <8502@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808271831.NAA10073@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Tony: E-mail me in private, and I'll fill you in . . . Jeff At 11:07 AM 8/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >I live for serious restoration projects and want a N* Horizon badly. > >Tony >-- > >On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:59:29 Jeff Kaneko wrote: >>Guys: >> >>How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? >>I have one in seriously distressed condition, but >>it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone >>who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration >>project. >> >>Jeff >> >> >> > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Thu Aug 27 13:32:16 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: C128 Stuff Message-ID: Well, score one for Classifieds 2000. I just got a C128 system with 1571, printer, and software (including all the *ORIGINAL* disks that came with the 1571) for $35. If anyone needs copies of 1571 stuff (including a C128 CP/M boot disk) lemme know, I have two 1571s now and can make disk copies rather easy. Tony -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 27 13:37:12 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: subscribe In-Reply-To: <199808270711.DAA02461@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 26 Aug 98 at 22:31, Mike McManus wrote: > > > subscibe mike mcmanus > > > Ahh, and welcome to the American Gun Assoc mailing list where > ocasionally we talk about computers. Ah, but you are wrong, Larry, for unless he also e-mailed it to listproc@u.washington.edu he hasn't really made it, has he? - don > ciao larry > > PS Sorry you had to be my straight man. No offense > lwalker@interlog.com From rax at warbaby.com Thu Aug 27 15:04:43 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Nerd Rats Message-ID: Thought y'all might be amused by this tidbit from another list: "This reminds me of something I heard about earier this month. It seems some researchers decided to create a breed of super-intelligent lab rats by the simple process of artificial selection: in each generation, only the rats who were the fastest at solving mazes would be bred. Result: After seven generations, the researchers had created a colony of rats who were clumsy, near-sighted, antisocial, and totally inept in their dealings with the opposite sex." -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 27 13:59:08 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba MK134FA-I hard drive In-Reply-To: <01bdd1e6$2bf67fa0$3728a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, PG Manney wrote: > My books do not list the above ST-506/412 interfaced drive. Anyone have > info? > Thanks > manney@lrbcg.com Nope! Nor mine, but looking at some other examples, eg. 153FA(-I) and 154FA(-I) I do not see any significant differences in specs from the basic FA models. For the MK134FA, my gouge lists only the basic and a '-R' (RLL) version. - don From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Aug 27 10:15:31 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba MK134FA-I hard drive In-Reply-To: <01bdd1e6$2bf67fa0$3728a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <199808271852.OAA21297@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:11:54 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "PG Manney" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Toshiba MK134FA-I hard drive > X-To: > My books do not list the above ST-506/412 interfaced drive. Anyone have > info? > Thanks > manney@lrbcg.com > > There is 2 versions of this drive MFM or RLL specs: 23ms average. 733/7/17 MFM 733/7/26 RLL Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Aug 27 14:20:53 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Nerd Rats Message-ID: <19980827192053.12294.qmail@hotmail.com> Curious. I am wondering what would happen if such a thing were actually done. It would probably make a bunch of rats with identical times,at which point the experiment would be over. It would be interesting what the gender spread would be in such a case. > >Thought y'all might be amused by this tidbit from another list: > > >"This reminds me of something I heard about earier this month. It seems >some researchers decided to create a breed of super-intelligent lab rats >by the simple process of artificial selection: in each generation, only >the rats who were the fastest at solving mazes would be bred. > >Result: After seven generations, the researchers had created a colony of >rats who were clumsy, near-sighted, antisocial, and totally inept in their >dealings with the opposite sex." > >-- > > > >Warbaby >The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. >http://www.warbaby.com > >The MonkeyPool >WebSite Content Development >http://www.monkeypool.com > > > Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Aug 27 15:04:17 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <980827160417.24c001ca@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >I've sometimes wished there were more FAQs and tutorials for >emulators like this. For that matter, for the preservation of >any old machine... so much knowledge isn't written down, much >less on the web. AFAIK, just about everything about the -11 and the DEC software that users might run on it is written down. I moved several thousand pounds of such documentation in my last big move, and that was even after pruning it down to only the most essential stuff! Tim. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 27 11:23:15 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together In-Reply-To: <000801bdd1ae$802401c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <199808272026.QAA02315@smtp.interlog.com> On 27 Aug 98 at 6:33, Francois wrote: > >On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Francois wrote: > > > >> I believe it is relevant to the list for people who might be in the area > at > >> the time. > > > >But if you have your own local mailing list, then you can talk about us > >behind our backs. We talk about you guys all the time :-) You can setup > > That's the main reason I wanted to meet my fellow collectors of the MidWest > so we can talk about you guys > > >your own list using a service like www.listbot.com, for example, or roll > >your own if you've got your own net.boxen (like all of us SV nerds). > > We have a few of those too but we save them for serious stuff: Real time > snow flake counter available in streaming video, mosquito forecast for every > lake in Minnesota. > > You see with all those interesting things goin on that leaves only one place > to post for our get-together, West Coast collector bashing reunions. > > Would it be more proper to post something in the following form? > ------------------------------------ > | | > | | > | o o | > | | | > | U | > | | > | | > | MIDWEST VCD Beta 0.1 | > | | > | Friday August 28 1998 | > | | > | Chilli's on county road 42 | > | | > | 6:00 pm | > | | > | | > | Any one who cares can come | > | | > ------------------------------------ > I could add a list of guest speakers and a schedule of events. > > > > >-- Doug > > > Yes I agree that the discussion about the details is probably noise for most > of you but it's the best way to reach all that would be interested. The > subject line is clear enough to decide wether you want to read the post or > not and at about 100 bytes a post it does not constitute a "waste of > bandwith". > Francois > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit the desperately in need of update > Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon > For the little bit of regional noise generated with posts like these I think the list can afford it. It's benefits to collectors in general as more regions get themselves together like the Boston and RI inititives are immense. I would like to see a similiar thing develop in the Toronto area. What better place to organise the isolated collectors in different regions. I seem to remember several events that were California-specific being organized on the list. C'mon give the great unwashed out in the diaspara a break. At least it's more on-topic than much of the noise that's been generated lately by those who should know better. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 27 15:36:41 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <980827160417.24c001ca@timvax.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980827153641.00c48210@pc> At 04:04 PM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I've sometimes wished there were more FAQs and tutorials for >>emulators like this. For that matter, for the preservation of >>any old machine... so much knowledge isn't written down, much >>less on the web. > >AFAIK, just about everything about the -11 and the DEC software that >users might run on it is written down. I moved several thousand >pounds of such documentation in my last big move, and that was >even after pruning it down to only the most essential stuff! Bad choice of words on my part. I meant it wasn't in electronic form. As you point out, it's tempting to toss the docs because of their bulk, and has others have shown on this list, the docs are the first thing to have disappeared when they come to rescue a system. Someone mentioned the old DEC fiches, and Megan (gee, only the most famous are known by their first names) said something about the way they were produced with specially formatted text that printed direct to fiche film. Has DEC liberated these docs in pure electronic text form, or even RUNOFF form, or whatever system they used to typeset the original docs? - John From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 27 15:45:44 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980827153641.00c48210@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 27, 98 03:36:41 pm Message-ID: <199808272045.NAA05519@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi: There's a big assortment of pdp-11 and pdp-8 docs developing on the highgate.comm.sfu.ca web site. Check out http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8 and http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11 Kevin PS If you have any docs you want to ADD to the site, then let me know and I'll create an account for you! Kevin > > At 04:04 PM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote: > >>I've sometimes wished there were more FAQs and tutorials for > >>emulators like this. For that matter, for the preservation of > >>any old machine... so much knowledge isn't written down, much > >>less on the web. > > > >AFAIK, just about everything about the -11 and the DEC software that > >users might run on it is written down. I moved several thousand > >pounds of such documentation in my last big move, and that was > >even after pruning it down to only the most essential stuff! > > Bad choice of words on my part. I meant it wasn't in electronic > form. As you point out, it's tempting to toss the docs because > of their bulk, and has others have shown on this list, the docs > are the first thing to have disappeared when they come to > rescue a system. > > Someone mentioned the old DEC fiches, and Megan (gee, only the > most famous are known by their first names) said something > about the way they were produced with specially formatted text > that printed direct to fiche film. Has DEC liberated these > docs in pure electronic text form, or even RUNOFF form, or > whatever system they used to typeset the original docs? > > - John > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Thu Aug 27 16:22:57 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980827153641.00c48210@pc> from John Foust at "Aug 27, 98 03:36:41 pm" Message-ID: <199808272122.RAA05922@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > > Someone mentioned the old DEC fiches, and Megan (gee, only the > most famous are known by their first names) said something > about the way they were produced with specially formatted text > that printed direct to fiche film. Has DEC liberated these > docs in pure electronic text form, or even RUNOFF form, or > whatever system they used to typeset the original docs? > > - John > > The program listing fiche were (I used to do IBM fiche at Bell & Howell Microphoto while working my way through tech school before DEC Field Service) probably generated via a COM machine which took tapes with print file spools and generated microfilm. I figure DEC printed the listings to file and then from file to tape and then sent the tapes out for repro as fiche. The maintenance manuals are shot by cameras which actually take a picture of each page to generate the master film for repro. DEC used blue (diazo) microfiche for their stuff, while IBM used mostly silver film images (much more expensive -- but they never got clear from exposure to sunlight). I almost wore out the DEC TU77 maint. manuals fixing tape drives. I wonder if DEC's MIS department has the tapes somewere. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Aug 27 17:32:22 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <980827183222.24c001e0@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Someone mentioned the old DEC fiches, and Megan (gee, only the >most famous are known by their first names) said something >about the way they were produced with specially formatted text >that printed direct to fiche film. Has DEC liberated these >docs in pure electronic text form, or even RUNOFF form, or >whatever system they used to typeset the original docs? If you could be more clear about *exactly* which documents you're interested in, I could fill you in precisely about their fiche and/or paper and/or electronic status. Again, we're talking about millions of pages generated in a period of time over a quarter of a century long, so there's not only a lot of documents, there are also a lot of document formats! ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Aug 27 18:29:59 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980827170343.0582a83c.in@mail.pressstart.com> I see another rocket has blown up. Looks like it's time to break out those desk top analog computers that got us into space the first time. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery Sunnyvale,CA http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum "This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; Yes,and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely lights and wires in a box." - Micro68 computer User's Manual,EPA Inc. 1976 ========================================= From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 27 19:27:31 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together References: <199808272026.QAA02315@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <35E5F972.2889A6DC@idirect.com> >Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Yes I agree that the discussion about the details is probably noise for most > > of you but it's the best way to reach all that would be interested. The > > subject line is clear enough to decide wether you want to read the post or > > not and at about 100 bytes a post it does not constitute a "waste of > For the little bit of regional noise generated with posts like these I think > the list can afford it. It's benefits to collectors in general as more regions > get themselves together like the Boston and RI inititives are immense. I would > like to see a similiar thing develop in the Toronto area. What better place to > organise the isolated collectors in different regions. I seem to remember > several events that were California-specific being organized on the list. > C'mon give the great unwashed out in the diaspara a break. At least it's more > on-topic than much of the noise that's been generated lately by those who > should know better. Jerome Fine replies: I'll drink to that. Seriously, a meeting in the Toronto area sounds interesting. Please advise. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 27 19:30:02 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <19980827170343.0582a83c.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Doug Coward wrote: > I see another rocket has blown up. > Looks like it's time to break out those > desk top analog computers that got us > into space the first time. You mean today? Haven't watched the news. I think its a conspiracy. (Really!) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 19:33:26 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Mentec License for Emulators References: Message-ID: <199808280033.AA11206@world.std.com> Jerome Fine wrote: >Megan says she has a V5.3 of RT-11 to be made available. >And I think someone else just mentioned that they had acquired >a set of RX50 for V5.3 of RT-11. Happy computing. The only problem I have right now is the fact that the person I contacted at Mentec (who is one of three who are responsible for pdp-11 stuff) was entirely unaware of this license. I had to fax him a copy and he is checking it out... Until that time, I can't do anything (and I advise others to wait as well, otherwise they can open themselves up to legal recourse). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 27 19:32:40 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Teeny Tiny Jumpers (reprise) Message-ID: <3ef127b8.35e5faa8@aol.com>> In a message dated 8/27/98 2:25:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, manney@lrbcg.com writes: > Grant sent me some, but they weren't teeny tiny enough. These are 3/32" > across, but the pins are only about 1/16" tall. Anyone have any? > Thanks > manney@lrbcg.com hmm, my local overpriced computer store has em for sale... i doubt they are that hard to find. From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 19:40:09 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808280040.AA15936@world.std.com> >Bad choice of words on my part. I meant it wasn't in electronic >form. As you point out, it's tempting to toss the docs because >of their bulk, and has others have shown on this list, the docs >are the first thing to have disappeared when they come to >rescue a system. There are some efforts I've heard of which involve scanning in the old documentation... that will be terrabytes of .GIFs, I would imagine... Let's hope that those of us who have any documentation keep it forever, or will forward it (if someone decides to exit the arena of classic computing) to one of those who are still maintaining sets... >Someone mentioned the old DEC fiches, and Megan (gee, only the Gee... I'm honored... (someone else used to refer to me as *The* Megan... :-) >most famous are known by their first names) said something >about the way they were produced with specially formatted text >that printed direct to fiche film. Has DEC liberated these >docs in pure electronic text form, or even RUNOFF form, or >whatever system they used to typeset the original docs? Unfortunately, those tapes were, to my knowledge, temporary for the time it took to make the fiche. If they were saved, they went to fire storage... and I have to say that once something from DEC went to fire storage, I've never seen anyone who could get it back... I know, I've tried a few times over the years for some things... (So what is the use of fire storage, if all it is is a black hole?) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 19:48:07 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <199808280048.AA20269@world.std.com> >"This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; > Yes,and it can even inspire. But it can do so > only to the extent that humans are determined > to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is > merely lights and wires in a box." > - Micro68 computer User's Manual,EPA Inc. 1976 I love it... succinct, and entirely lost with today's generation who expects that computers can do anything, right out of the box. Actually, I remember a few people who thought the same way a few decades ago as well... On the other hand, I've also had people respond to me that "That can't be done on our computer," when I've made some suggestion. I always respond with, "Yes, it could be done if a programmer took the time to write the code." It's amazing how much and how little people think computers can do... quite a paradox. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 19:52:19 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <199808280052.AA23539@world.std.com> >> I see another rocket has blown up. >> Looks like it's time to break out those >> desk top analog computers that got us >> into space the first time. > >You mean today? Haven't watched the news. I think its a conspiracy. It is... the Taelons don't want us in space... :-) Seriously, it carried the supposed replacement for the satellite which had problems a few months ago and caused a beeper outage for millions of subscribers... the company is a connecticut company... Of course, the satellite was covered by insurance (gee, maybe that is what brought it down... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 27 18:12:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980826220231.2ffffd66@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 26, 98 10:02:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1349 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/05b37066/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 27 18:42:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808270321.AA27119@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 26, 98 11:21:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 978 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/8449c75f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 27 18:47:06 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <199808270327.VAA06627@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim" at Aug 26, 98 09:27:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/ed6e4ab1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 27 18:23:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <19980827000458.21818.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 26, 98 05:04:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2007 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/d04de449/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 27 20:31:51 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Mentec License for Emulators In-Reply-To: <199808280033.AA11206@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Aug 27, 98 08:33:26 pm Message-ID: <199808280131.SAA28918@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980827/f2b12ed7/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 27 20:42:02 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Mentec License for Emulators In-Reply-To: <199808280033.AA11206@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Aug 27, 98 08:33:26 pm Message-ID: <199808280142.SAA28956@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980827/c4fea41a/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 27 20:57:14 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] Message-ID: <87d2a7e2.35e60e7a@aol.com>> In a message dated 8/27/98 9:03:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > The Unimat (it's still being made) is a nice machine, but IMHO a little > small for the sort of things that I'm likely to need.... > i really dread continuing this off topic discussion, but american science and surplus (sciplus.com) sells the unimat 1 for $300. is it any good? i had a friend who had one in grade school, but i dont think he ever did anything with it. i can imagine it could come in handy for turning small parts, computer related and otherwise. From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 27 21:27:34 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808271515.AA14746@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35E61596.D529E989@idirect.com> >Megan wrote: > Thank you for pointing this out... if, in fact, this is as it appears > (and I just down-loaded the rt image from gatekeeper to read the license), > then we seem to be able to run RT-11 V5.3 or earlier, RSTS V9.6 or > earlier, or RSX-11M V4.3 or earlier. If so, and I want to confirm > this first, I have a copy of the V5.3 distribution of RT-11 I could > make available... Jerome Fine replies: That would be great. Are you referring to both the binaries and the update package or just the binaries? > >Does anyone have such disk images available? And could they share them? > >(Unless I'm very much mistaken, it's legal under the emulator license) > It sure seems to be... I thought it used to state (for example) an > execute-only (RT^2) version of RT V4.0... This is a nice development. > > I'll check it out today... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ I also think I read that someone else may have a set of RX50 diskettes as well. Would that qualify? And how should V5.3 of RT-11 be made available - assuming that the license form which I have seen is the real thing? And are there any restrictions implicit in the utilities which would be used to transfer V5.3 into the environment of the OS in which the emulator would be run? Plus, I understand that the Bob Supnick emulator - which is what Mentec does not bother to name by name is what the Mentec license refers to. Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in "C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Thu Aug 27 21:25:50 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <35E61596.D529E989@idirect.com> from Jerome Fine at "Aug 27, 98 10:27:34 pm" Message-ID: <199808280225.WAA14345@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > Plus, I understand that the Bob Supnick emulator - which is what Mentec > does not bother to name by name is what the Mentec license refers to. > Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or > Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in > "C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run > under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict > Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications > (Sources not always required) To the best of my knowledge no one has tried (especially since E11 runs under DOS already). I'd love to see the Supnick emulators under Windows (3.1 or 95) with a graphical front panel like the Doug Jones PDP8 emulator under X11. Imagine real toggle switches and 11/45 emulation running V7 or the RT11 RSTS/E or RSX light pattern (all different) showing up in real-time... Any Visual C/Borland C types want to try it? Bill From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Aug 27 21:53:35 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808271515.AA14746@world.std.com> <35E61596.D529E989@idirect.com> Message-ID: <35E61BAF.282AA67E@halcyon.com> The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. Or Unix V7. Jerome Fine wrote: > > Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or > Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in > "C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run > under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 27 21:46:50 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Troubleshooter Software (offtopic) In-Reply-To: <01bdd1e6$8192b280$3728a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980827214650.006b7988@pop3.concentric.net> I've got the cd but have not tried it yet. John At 02:14 PM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >I just ordered ForeFront's "The Troubleshooter" for evaluation. Anyone have >any experience with it? Is it any good? >manney@lrbcg.com > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 27 21:44:55 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800? In-Reply-To: <199808271807.NAA09936@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> References: <8172@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980827214455.006a6680@pop3.concentric.net> I have four of them, got nmy first back in 1978 for $3200 a display model at the store. At 12:59 PM 8/27/98 -0700, you wrote: >Guys: > >How many of you out there have a North Star Horizon? >I have one in seriously distressed condition, but >it may be useful for parts, or possibly for someone >who wants to embark on a *serious* restoration >project. > >Jeff > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 27 21:50:18 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba MK134FA-I hard drive In-Reply-To: <01bdd1e6$2bf67fa0$3728a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980827215018.006a6238@pop3.concentric.net> my book shows 44meg, 7-head,733-cyl,17-sect,25-seektime,MFM3600rpm John At 02:11 PM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote: >My books do not list the above ST-506/412 interfaced drive. Anyone have >info? >Thanks >manney@lrbcg.com > > > > From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 22:29:48 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Mentec License for Emulators Message-ID: <199808280329.AA08800@world.std.com> >D'oh. I do very much hope hope that the license turns out to be legit. >After all, I have absolutely no desire to make any commercial use or gain >out of the emulator or the Mentec software. It's purely non-commercial, >purely educational, and fun. I hope so too... >Megan, could you put in a good word for us emu-weenies? If I had any influence with people at Mentec, I would... but I'm just as much one of the weenies in their eyes as anyone... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 27 22:30:23 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:16 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808280225.WAA14345@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <35E6244F.46CB4F84@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > > Plus, I understand that the Bob Supnick emulator - which is what Mentec > > does not bother to name by name is what the Mentec license refers to. > > Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or > > Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in > > "C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run > > under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? > To the best of my knowledge no one has tried (especially since E11 > runs under DOS already). I'd love to see the Supnick emulators > under Windows (3.1 or 95) with a graphical front panel like the Doug > Jones PDP8 emulator under X11. > > Imagine real toggle switches and 11/45 emulation running V7 or the RT11 > RSTS/E or RSX light pattern (all different) showing up in real-time... > > Any Visual C/Borland C types want to try it? Jerome Fine replies: A friend of mine says he has an old version of Borland Turbo C 2.0 that runs under MS-DOS. Would that do the job? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From rhblake at bbtel.com Thu Aug 27 23:03:46 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Zenith ZWX-248-62 items - Cheeep Message-ID: <35E62C21.B138636B@bbtel.com> Need to get rid of quick - *Complete case, power supply, planar board, processor board w/512k RAM, I/O board, MFM floppy/hard drive controller, MDA video board, drive bays, filler plate. Add a floppy and hard drive and it's back in business again running a 286-12 processor. Also includes an additional memory board that uses 30 pin simms, without any simms on it. $10 plus shipping. Weighs 20-25 lbs Also, w ith the above I will throw in for the cost of shipping- *Another complete case but NO power supply, planar board, 1 processor board w/512k RAM, 2 I/O boards. I won't post these as freebies to anyone else until I find out if the person that wants the complete unit wants them thrown in or not. Email me direct. First come first served. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From mbg at world.std.com Thu Aug 27 23:27:25 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808271515.AA14746@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199808280427.AA17507@world.std.com> >That would be great. Are you referring to both the binaries and the >update package or just the binaries? I don't have any update packages... so it would only be the V5.3 binary distribution. >I also think I read that someone else may have a set of RX50 diskettes >as well. Would that qualify? And how should V5.3 of RT-11 be made >available - assuming that the license form which I have seen is the real >thing? And are there any restrictions implicit in the utilities which >would be used to transfer V5.3 into the environment of the OS in which >the emulator would be run? If the question of the license is resolved in the positive, then I could make available image copies of any of the distribution media with the exception of magtapes. >Plus, I understand that the Bob Supnick emulator - which is what Mentec >does not bother to name by name is what the Mentec license refers to. >Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or >Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in >"C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run >under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? I've heard of people taking the makefile I wrote for it and making modifications so that it would build using some flavor of C on MS/DOS. (And this has been borne out by the post from someone who said they built it and use it). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 28 00:33:40 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <35E6244F.46CB4F84@idirect.com> References: <199808280225.WAA14345@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: >> Any Visual C/Borland C types want to try it? > >Jerome Fine replies: > >A friend of mine says he has an old version of Borland Turbo C 2.0 >that runs under MS-DOS. Would that do the job? Well, Turbo C 2.0 can do DOS programs, it dates back to before 1990. If doing a purely DOS port, I'd have to say go with the DOS version of the GNU C compiler. I would think using it that it would be a fairly easy port. Sorry, I nether have the DOS version of gcc, nor do I have the desire to try to get it running on DOS. One of the text files mention that someone was trying to port it, and the 2.3c sources have comments in it related to Win32. I doubt anyone has done any kind of fancy GUI front-end for it. I've compiled and run it on AIX 4.3 and Linux 2.0.x without any trouble to speak of. I think AIX required a little very simple hacking. I've managed to get it compiled on MacOS 8 on my PowerPC 8500, but haven't been able to get it to successfully boot from a disk image. The Mac REALLY needs a PDP-11 emulator! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Aug 28 03:47:52 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <199808280048.AA20269@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Aug 27, 98 08:48:07 pm Message-ID: <199808280847.BAA12222@saul7.u.washington.edu> > >"This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; > > Yes,and it can even inspire. But it can do so > > only to the extent that humans are determined > > to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is > > merely lights and wires in a box." > > - Micro68 computer User's Manual,EPA Inc. 1976 Sorry for the extra level of quoting (the original message hasn't reached my mailbox yet). I believe these words are Edward R. Murrow's -- they refer to television. The only reason I know this is because PBS used them in one of their pro-PBS "commercials" a while ago. Of course they are quite appropriate about computers as well (especially since computers these days -- much more than in 1976 -- use the same flashiness techniques that the TV industry crdated). For non-US readers, PBS is our Public Broadcasting System. It's funded partly by viewer donations. There are small "Our sponsors are..." announcements but no actual commercials, though there are "Watch PBS because..." clips. And the audience is assumed to be much more intelligent/curious than the networks' target audience. -- Derek From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 28 04:48:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Apollos in St Louis In-Reply-To: <199808280225.WAA14345@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: Not from me, from this guy: << I have 2 complete 3500's available for a good home. Includes the Color monitors. You must be able to pick up in the St. Louis area. Hardware only, I wasn't able to save the tapes or the books.... 24 meg ram(??), 340 meg ESDI, token ring (???), ethernet, and 15" color monitors, keyboard, mouse. Working before I caught them taking them to the dumpster.... Email if interested... wbrco@valuenet.net Thanks! Allen -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | http://web.cybercon.com/wurmborn | >> From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Fri Aug 28 06:04:57 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <35E61BAF.282AA67E@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at "Aug 27, 98 07:53:35 pm" Message-ID: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. > I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have > to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 > terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. > Or Unix V7. > > Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if there is a version which runs under MS-DOS or > > Windows 95/98? I realize that the Bob Supnick emulator is written in > > "C" and normally runs under UNIX. Does that mean that it can't run > > under MS-DOS, or is it just that no one has ever tried? > Hmm... sounds like someone should zip it up and get it to gatekeeper.dec.com. Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C to consider an attempt. Bill From dce64 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:19:10 1998 From: dce64 at hotmail.com (DCE DCE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: HELP MEEE Message-ID: <19980828111911.431.qmail@hotmail.com> Hello, I have your email via The Computer Garage. I have a big old UTS40 SPERRY UNIVAC and his subsystem : two beautiful 8'' disk drive. When i turn power on ---> black screen and a long BEEEEEEP no poc test GNIARGH !!!! (((: Can you help me ??? Many Thanks ! :) DCE64@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Aug 28 07:50:12 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> It IS what's at gatekeeper.dec.com. Exactly. No need to zip up anything. Just make a workspace with a project for existing files. If you mean the executable, because you may not have a way to compile it, sure, the .exe could be put somewhere for FTP. I'm not sure gatekeeper is the right place, so I'll put it at my public FTP for now. Try ftp://ftp.halcyon.com/djenner/PDP11.zip . This is a 32-bit application, by the way. You'll need to be running Windows 95/98 or NT. I haven't tried making a 16-bit build; that'd require going back to VC++ 1.52. Perhaps someone else has that or Borland and can try it for DOS. Dave Bill Pechter wrote: > > > The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. > > I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have > > to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 > > terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. > > Or Unix V7. > Hmm... sounds like someone should zip it up and get it to gatekeeper.dec.com. > > Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C > to consider an attempt. > > Bill From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Aug 28 07:59:09 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <35E6A99D.53361A57@halcyon.com> Opps! Make that ftp://ftp.halcyon.com/pub/users/djenner/PDP11.zip David C. Jenner wrote: > > It IS what's at gatekeeper.dec.com. Exactly. No need to zip up > anything. Just make a workspace with a project for existing files. > > If you mean the executable, because you may not have a way to compile > it, sure, the .exe could be put somewhere for FTP. I'm not sure > gatekeeper is the right place, so I'll put it at my public FTP for now. > Try ftp://ftp.halcyon.com/djenner/PDP11.zip . > > This is a 32-bit application, by the way. You'll need > to be running Windows 95/98 or NT. I haven't tried making a 16-bit > build; that'd require going back to VC++ 1.52. Perhaps someone else > has that or Borland and can try it for DOS. > > Dave > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. > > > I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have > > > to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 > > > terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. > > > Or Unix V7. > > > Hmm... sounds like someone should zip it up and get it to gatekeeper.dec.com. > > > > Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C > > to consider an attempt. > > > > Bill From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Aug 28 10:26:00 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <8534@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808281333.IAA13150@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 08:52 PM 8/27/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>> I see another rocket has blown up. >>> Looks like it's time to break out those >>> desk top analog computers that got us >>> into space the first time. >> >>You mean today? Haven't watched the news. I think its a conspiracy. > >It is... the Taelons don't want us in space... :-) > Hmm, this looks like a job for agent Fox Mulder . . . From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 08:26:01 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980828132601.3818.qmail@hotmail.com> Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. >> Looks like it's time to break out those >> desk top analog computers that got us >> into space the first time. > >You mean today? Haven't watched the news. I think its a conspiracy. > >(Really!) > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/25/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 09:40:05 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <199808281440.AA26604@world.std.com> "Max Eskin" wrote: >Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess >some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked >seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on >computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely >they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. Actually, from the news report I heard, it was a new launch vehicle. The maiden flight... That doesn't contradict the idea it may be old technology, but supposedly the vehicle was one of a new series... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 28 09:47:51 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980826220231.2ffffd66@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980828094751.00c7b100@pc> At 12:12 AM 8/28/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >Things like 'The boy mechanic' One of my favorites from childhood, I only have the first two editions, though. Like old computers, these tricks, techniques and interesting experiments still work, but they're lost in the sands of time. Do you have a URL for Camden? www.camden.co.uk is taken by a domain hoarder. I don't think this is too far off-topic - methods for reconstruction of old parts should be quite relevant. Late last night while flipping through the channels, I happened on a very cheesily produced infomercial about a product Alumaloy. I found a web site at . It's rods of what looks like solder, except it melts with a propane torch at 728 F, I think, and what caught my eye and made me watch was the way it easily *wet* against aluminum without flux, spanned gaps even across holes in thin metal, and apparently hardened into machinable metal. Freaky. $45 a pound. I've also day-dreamed about micro-machining. With the ultra-cheap Roland CNC mills and 3D scanners, under Products / PC Toolbox, I've wondered if there aren't even less expensive (but let's say, slower or less precise) ways of prototyping or reproducing parts. I have example pieces from the Z-Corp stereolithography machine, which can turn 3D models into a starch-based solid. Think of laying down thin layers of starch powder, wetted by an ink jet head spraying water. The medium can be impregnated with wax or resin, and it burns away for lost-wax casting. - John From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 09:52:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <199808281452.AA08537@world.std.com> < Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess < some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked Cracked seals were specific to the solid booters of the Shuttle launch system. < seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on < computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely < they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. B0y are you wrong. rocket/missle technology was using computer hardware as early as the late 50s. I know the first hardware I could actually hack was from a minutman missle a rather strange serial word/math disk based machine that wasn't fast but apparently enough to do the job. Allison From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 10:10:34 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980828151035.4021.qmail@hotmail.com> But a Minuteman has to perform targeting operations, and thrust control, because it had to hit something. An orbital launch system should (I know little about this) be simpler. I'm sure there are seals of some sort in every rocket. Just that we only hear about them from the Challenger incident. And all seals can crack. But if this was a maiden flight of a new vehicle none of this is necessary. New technology is naturally less reliable than old, perfected technology. >Cracked seals were specific to the solid booters of the Shuttle launch >system. > >< seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on >< computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely >< they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. > >B0y are you wrong. rocket/missle technology was using computer hardware >as early as the late 50s. I know the first hardware I could actually hack >was from a minutman missle a rather strange serial word/math disk based >machine that wasn't fast but apparently enough to do the job. > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From bill at chipware.com Fri Aug 28 11:03:57 1998 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Cheap cp/m machines on EBay Message-ID: <01BDD27B.EFC88C30@yamato.chipware.com> Take a look at this on EBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=26710824 Sanyo cp/m machines guaranteed to work, with software, for $2.99 plus shiping (yes, the decimal is in the right place). From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 28 12:06:04 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, David C. Jenner wrote: > This is a 32-bit application, by the way. You'll need > to be running Windows 95/98 or NT. I haven't tried making a 16-bit > build; that'd require going back to VC++ 1.52. Perhaps someone else > has that or Borland and can try it for DOS. I can make a 16-bit version if someone throws the complete source my way. If there are problems I won't go into them because I just don't have time, but if it compiles straight on the first try then of course I'll stash the .EXE where ever it would be appropriate for others to get at. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 28 12:10:09 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Power adapter question Message-ID: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 305 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/623d71d2/attachment.bin From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 28 12:10:15 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <19980828132601.3818.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess > some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked > seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on > computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely > they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. Sure! One out of hundreds of Space Shuttle flights. 1 out of, how many was that, 4 Apollo flights. A couple recently out of hundreds in the past several years. Its the payload of the first that exploded that's very curious to me: a high-tech spy satellite capable of listening on on thousands of phone calls and other communications, costing how many billions? You'd think they would be REALLY, REALLY careful with a toy like that. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I at least like to HOPE that someone out there cares enough about freedom that they had a hose accidentally snipped or something, know what I mean? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Aug 28 12:43:45 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <1998Aug28.134225.1767.133335@smtp.itgonline.com> Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Deja vu Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/28/98 1:21 PM On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess > some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked > seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on > computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely > they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. Sure! One out of hundreds of Space Shuttle flights. 1 out of, how many was that, 4 Apollo flights. A couple recently out of hundreds in the past several years. Its the payload of the first that exploded that's very curious to me: a high-tech spy satellite capable of listening on on thousands of phone calls and other communications, costing how many billions? You'd think they would be REALLY, REALLY careful with a toy like that. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I at least like to HOPE that someone out there cares enough about freedom that they had a hose accidentally snipped or something, know what I mean? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug28.132105.1767.60129; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:21:06 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA11309; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:29 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA19184 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:18 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA29235 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:17 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar@shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04685 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <19980828132601.3818.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 13:11:35 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808281811.AA00576@world.std.com> >I can make a 16-bit version if someone throws the complete source my way. >If there are problems I won't go into them because I just don't have >time, but if it compiles straight on the first try then of course I'll >stash the .EXE where ever it would be appropriate for others to get at. Why should anyone have to toss it to you... it is available over the web at ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/digital/sim/sources/ Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 13:16:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <199808281816.AA09241@world.std.com> > Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution > sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: > freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent > Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the > invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by > Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in > interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living > breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need > interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped. I may be naive, but I understand that the satellite was owned by a connecticut company who was have it launched to replace the one which went bad earlier this year, knocking out millions of pagers, etc. > several years. Its the payload of the first that exploded that's very > curious to me: a high-tech spy satellite capable of listening on on > thousands of phone calls and other communications, costing how many > billions? You'd think they would be REALLY, REALLY careful with a toy > like that. So would I... and I would have suspect that such a satellite would have been launched from vandenburg. This is part of the reason I do believe it was a communicates satellite. BTW - if not from vandenburg, then aboard a shuttle... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 13:37:22 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980828183723.4500.qmail@hotmail.com> The September issue of PC World makes a very good point. 'Privacy' is not mentioned in the Constitution. And while you're outraged at invasions of privacy, read some Noam Chomsky and find out what you should be angry at even more... (Chomsky Reader or via web search for 'Noam Chomsky'). > Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution > sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: > freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent > Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the > invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by > Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in > interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living > breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need > interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped. > > Marty > > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Re: Deja vu >Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 8/28/98 1:21 PM > > > On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > > Give me a break! Rockets explode all of the time. Plus, I would guess > > some of the parts they are using are old. I have the feeling cracked > > seals could once again be the problem. Also, rockets don't rely on > > computer controls. These are 20-year old technology. It's unlikely > > they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model car. > > Sure! One out of hundreds of Space Shuttle flights. 1 out of, how many > was that, 4 Apollo flights. A couple recently out of hundreds in the past > several years. Its the payload of the first that exploded that's very > curious to me: a high-tech spy satellite capable of listening on on > thousands of phone calls and other communications, costing how many > billions? You'd think they would be REALLY, REALLY careful with a toy > like that. > > Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I at least like to HOPE that someone > out there cares enough about freedom that they had a hose accidentally > snipped or something, know what I mean? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: >dastar@siconic.com > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/25/98] > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998Aug28.132105.1767.60129; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:21:06 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP > id KAA11309; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:29 -0700 > Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA19184 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 > 10:10:18 -0700 > Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com > [204.247.247.54]) > by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP > id KAA29235 for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:17 > > -0700 > Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar@shell1.ncal.verio.com > [204.247.248.254]) > by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04685 > for ; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:16 -0700 (PDT) > Message-Id: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:10:15 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: Sam Ismail > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Re: Deja vu > In-Reply-To: <19980828132601.3818.qmail@hotmail.com> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 13:42:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980828184210.9375.qmail@hotmail.com> Since the Challenger explosion, NASA policy has been not to perform shuttle launches for the purpose of delivering communications sattelites. >> Since we are off topic, read the Bill of Rights and the Constitution >> sometime if you want an idea of just how many of your rights (re: >> freedom) have been usurped in your 'best interest' by our omnipresent >> Federal Government. This spy satellite pales in comparison to the >> invasion of personal liberty that has been either legislated by >> Congress or in the case of our Constitutional Rights bent in >> interpretation by the Supreme Court under the guise of a 'living >> breathing Constitution.' Bullshit. The Constitution doesn't need >> interpretation, it is written very clearly and has been raped. > >I may be naive, but I understand that the satellite was owned by >a connecticut company who was have it launched to replace the one >which went bad earlier this year, knocking out millions of pagers, >etc. > >> several years. Its the payload of the first that exploded that's very >> curious to me: a high-tech spy satellite capable of listening on on >> thousands of phone calls and other communications, costing how many >> billions? You'd think they would be REALLY, REALLY careful with a toy >> like that. > >So would I... and I would have suspect that such a satellite would have >been launched from vandenburg. This is part of the reason I do believe >it was a communicates satellite. > >BTW - if not from vandenburg, then aboard a shuttle... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 28 14:03:35 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Power adapter question In-Reply-To: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 28 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Electronics 101: > > > I have a generic power adapter that's rated 9VAC, 780mA. I'd intended to use > for a VIC-20 and/or Atari 400. But when I took a reading with a voltmeter, it > came out about a volt and a half over. Is this too much for the machines I > have, or is it within tolerance? Did you have any load on the output? - don > > Thank you, > > > -- MB > From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Fri Aug 28 14:40:44 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Power adapter question In-Reply-To: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 28 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > I have a generic power adapter that's rated 9VAC, 780mA. I'd intended to use > for a VIC-20 and/or Atari 400. But when I took a reading with a voltmeter, it > came out about a volt and a half over. Is this too much for the machines I You'll need some kind of load on it to get an accurate reading of its output. Around 12 to 15 ohms, and able to disipate about 7 watts. I don't know the supply requirements of those computers. But a couple volts over spec is usually ok; if it wants an AC input, the computer must have the remainder of the psu internal - its regulators should be able to handle a little extra. -WC From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 28 14:48:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: MSNBC article on online auction fraud In-Reply-To: References: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980828144844.00c4ddf0@pc> - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 28 15:36:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <199808281816.AA09241@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Megan wrote: > I may be naive, but I understand that the satellite was owned by > a connecticut company who was have it launched to replace the one > which went bad earlier this year, knocking out millions of pagers, > etc. We are ruminated over the gub'ment spy satellite that blew up a couple weeks ago. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 28 15:41:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: PDP-8 memory stack (fwd) Message-ID: Chuck, I'm forwarding your message to ClassicCmp. You should join that too: mailto:listproc@u.washington.edu In the body of the message: subscribe classiccmp cmcmanis@freegate.com Everyone else already on the list, see below my sig for Chuck's original message. He needs help with memory for his PDP/8. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:46:11 -0700 From: Chuck McManis Reply-To: baccl@retronet.net To: Bay Area Computer Collectors List Subject: PDP-8 memory stack Hello, I'm new to this list (Sam Ismail suggested I join it), allow me to introduce myself. I'm an engineer at a startup (FreeGate Corp) and have been using computers since 1972 when I first laid hands on a PDP-8/e. Since then I've used a variety of them (still have the boards, docs and cassette tapes, from a Digital Grourp Z-80 system, my first computer.) I am the Executive Director for the Society for the Preservation Of Classic Computers (SPOCC). My current project for the society is to seek charitable status under section 501(c)(3) of the IRS code. My current restoration project is a PDP-8/m that is, sadly, without memory. I've been looking around for a 4K stack for about 1.5 months now. Progress to date includes buying a stack from Keyways Inc (www.keyways.com) but having only the Core section work (the sense amps and xy drivers are not working correctly) These boards are labelled G104 and G227 in DEC flip chip parlance. If you know of anyone who has a working core stack, I'd be interested to hear about it. I paid Keyways $75 each (to be refunded since they don't work) for these boards. I've paid $10/each for "AS-IS" boards. DEC claims they have replacement stock available at $1800. (a bit much for me...) --Chuck From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 28 16:52:11 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <35E7268A.37A27DA7@idirect.com> >David C. Jenner wrote: > It IS what's at gatekeeper.dec.com. Exactly. No need to zip up > anything. Just make a workspace with a project for existing files. > > If you mean the executable, because you may not have a way to compile > it, sure, the .exe could be put somewhere for FTP. I'm not sure > gatekeeper is the right place, so I'll put it at my public FTP for now. > Try ftp://ftp.halcyon.com/djenner/PDP11.zip . > > This is a 32-bit application, by the way. You'll need > to be running Windows 95/98 or NT. I haven't tried making a 16-bit > build; that'd require going back to VC++ 1.52. Perhaps someone else > has that or Borland and can try it for DOS. > > Dave > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > > > The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. > > > I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have > > > to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 > > > terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. > > > Or Unix V7. > > > Hmm... sounds like someone should zip it up and get it to gatekeeper.dec.com. > > > > Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C > > to consider an attempt. > > > > Bill Jerome Fine replies: Thanks very much. I have a friend who does not bother much with the internet, but I will pass this address along. Also, based on what Bill Pechter said, could you also put the sources and documentation there as well? It is good to know that alternatives do exist. However, the big question is whether Mentec actually honours the copy of the LICENSE AGREEMENT that was found. Has anyone that is reading this post actually had a copy signed by Mentec? If you don't want to put your license at risk (Mentec can cancel it on 30 days notice), please do not respond! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 28 16:52:22 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <35E72695.59AA31D3@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > > The Supnik emulator runs just fine under Windows 95/98. > > I use Visual Studio 97 (VC++ 5.0) to build it. You have > > to run in in an MS-DOS box, so you don't have a VT52/VT100 > > terminal. One click and you have RT-11 V4.0C on your desktop. > > Or Unix V7. > Hmm... sounds like someone should zip it up and get it to gatekeeper.dec.com. > > Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C > to consider an attempt. Jerome Fine replies: Evidently David Jenner has done the zip. About running in an MS-DOS box, I though that / would switch the monitor to full screen. Maybe I don't understand how W955/98 works?????? That would not fix the VT100 problem, but someone who wanted to persevere could press the individual keys starting with to start the arrow key sequences and application keypad. Most of the time, I have found that the VT100 keyboard aspects are not used unless the SL: (single line editor) is turned on (SET SL: ON). Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 28 17:04:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <35E72695.59AA31D3@idirect.com> References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980828170428.00c78320@pc> At 05:52 PM 8/28/98 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: >> >> Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C >> to consider an attempt. How much of the VT-100 emulation does it need? Won't preloading of ANSI.SYS supply some of it? A graphical user interface - blinken lights, pretend switches - would really open up this emulator. I'd recompiled this emulator for Win32 once upon a time, too. The main() loop is simple enough, it could be tied to buttons and menu events. - John From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 28 17:30:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Online auctions Message-ID: <35E72F94.ED27137C@bbtel.com> Take a look, for info purposes http://www.msnbc.com/news/178798.asp -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Aug 28 19:00:13 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E7268A.37A27DA7@idirect.com> Message-ID: <35E7448D.F0C33101@halcyon.com> Jerome Fine wrote: > > but I will pass this address along. Also, based on what Bill Pechter said, could > you also put the sources and documentation there as well? It is good to know > that alternatives do exist. > No. I see no reason to duplicate what's at gatekeeper. In fact, it's dangerous. There should be one, official source. If you are really into it, download the original source, and devise a build that works for you. If I have a chance, I'll try finding my VC++ 1.52 and try building for DOS, but right now I don't know where it is in the pile! Dave From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 28 16:25:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: OT RE: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! ;] In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980828094751.00c7b100@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 28, 98 09:47:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/903a092f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 28 17:25:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Power adapter question In-Reply-To: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 28, 98 01:10:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 921 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980828/28a3f414/attachment.ksh From darkside at digicron.com Wed Aug 26 19:27:14 1998 From: darkside at digicron.com (Poesie De La Fenetre) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Twin cities get together References: Message-ID: <35E4A7E2.32B0@digicron.com> oh, I see... because we're in the midwest we're not good enough :P erm, what was the time and date again? sorry, i'm a bit forgetful, and i delete alot. I could possibly set up a list serve on a clients site... will email you guys with any info, if there's any more than the three of us. hehehehe -Eric Whatever time and date you guys have should probably be ok with me, though. Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > Ok with me how's that sound to you Eric ? Anyone else in the area that > > would like to join us is welcome. John > > A suggestion: a group of us in the Bay Area have created a list-serve to > discuss events and interest specific to our local area (anyone in the Bay > Area is invited to join). Perhaps one of you could create a mailing list > that would serve you folks in the mid-west so that you can keep local > discussions of off the main list. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From wpe at interserv.com Fri Aug 28 20:44:54 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Online auctions References: <35E72F94.ED27137C@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35E75D16.C7112229@interserv.com> Thank you Sir for passing that along... GOOD INFO! Will Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Take a look, for info purposes > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/178798.asp > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop Fri Aug 28 22:01:42 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.eduop (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: New Arrival Message-ID: <35E76F16.81446694@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> The Northstar Advantage I purchased arrived today. Fired it up, booted into Graphic CP/M 2.2. Everything seems to work peachy! Don Maslin, the boot disk you sent me was for a single floppy drive plus HD system. Would you like me to send you a copy of the Dual Floppy boot disk I made? Tony From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Aug 28 22:15:58 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: New Arrival In-Reply-To: <35E76F16.81446694@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> Message-ID: While not as exotic as other machines noted here today I found an Apple ][GS at a Goodwill store here in Oregon. It included: 4 MByte RAM card Sider Hard drive (Haven't determined capacity) GSOS on hard drive Imagewriter ][ 3.5 inch floppy 5.25 inch floppy Apple ][GS Color monitor They listed it as $60 but I offered $40 and they took it. I don't think that was too bad as I remember the RAM card could be found by itself for about $80-$100. Cheers, George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Tony Dellett wrote: > The Northstar Advantage I purchased arrived today. Fired it up, booted > into Graphic CP/M 2.2. Everything seems to work peachy! > > Don Maslin, the boot disk you sent me was for a single floppy drive plus > HD system. Would you like me to send you a copy of the Dual Floppy boot > disk I made? > > Tony > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 29 22:09:40 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <199808290315.XAA21330@gate.usaor.net> Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. I'm not sure if they were manufactured by IBM or not. I need it for my 5170 AT. I'm also looking for an original IBM 5170 AT keyboard. ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 28 22:43:22 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Deja vu References: <199808280847.BAA12222@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35E778DA.17AF98DF@cnct.com> D. Peschel wrote: > > > >"This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; > > > Yes,and it can even inspire. But it can do so > > > only to the extent that humans are determined > > > to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is > > > merely lights and wires in a box." > > > - Micro68 computer User's Manual,EPA Inc. 1976 > > Sorry for the extra level of quoting (the original message hasn't reached my > mailbox yet). > > I believe these words are Edward R. Murrow's -- they refer to television. > The only reason I know this is because PBS used them in one of their pro-PBS > "commercials" a while ago. > > Of course they are quite appropriate about computers as well (especially since > computers these days -- much more than in 1976 -- use the same flashiness > techniques that the TV industry crdated). > > For non-US readers, PBS is our Public Broadcasting System. It's funded partly > by viewer donations. There are small "Our sponsors are..." announcements but > no actual commercials, though there are "Watch PBS because..." clips. And the > audience is assumed to be much more intelligent/curious than the networks' > target audience. You neglect to mention the begathons every PBS station does for at least two weeks every quarter. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 28 22:54:24 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E7268A.37A27DA7@idirect.com> <35E7448D.F0C33101@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <35E77B6F.75D12A4@idirect.com> >David C. Jenner wrote: > > but I will pass this address along. Also, based on what Bill Pechter said, could > > you also put the sources and documentation there as well? It is good to know > > that alternatives do exist. > No. I see no reason to duplicate what's at gatekeeper. In fact, it's > dangerous. There should be one, official source. If you are > really into it, download the original source, and devise a build that > works for you. > > If I have a chance, I'll try finding my VC++ 1.52 and try building for > DOS, but right now I don't know where it is in the pile! Jerome Fine replies: My friend does mostly RT-11 and does not have any of the PC tools. He says he did download the PDP11.EXE Supnick emulator for W95 and he tried it. Other than the known lack of VT100 emulation, he was very pleased. Also, is there a DOC file? Finally, he did attempt to figure out what was involved in getting the sources. But, due to his lack of understanding of how the files are packaged, he gave up. Plus, if the MS-DOS version is equally lacking in VT100 support, he does not see much point in spending the time to set up that version. But at least the Supnick emulator executable for W95 that you have packaged does run very nicely. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 28 22:54:47 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E6A99D.53361A57@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <35E77B87.71430A65@idirect.com> >David C. Jenner wrote: > Opps! Make that > ftp://ftp.halcyon.com/pub/users/djenner/PDP11.zip Jerome Fine replies: Just what the PDP11 ordered. Thanks! I passed the URL along to a friend of mine and he says it works as it is intended to!!! > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Someone should add vt100 emulation next. I wish I was good enough at C > > > to consider an attempt. That would be a very valuable aspect. Does any version of the Supnick emulator have VT100 emulation? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 23:01:07 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E7268A.37A27DA7@idirect.com> Message-ID: <199808290401.AA09827@world.std.com> >Also, is there a DOC file? The documentation for the emulator comes in the source package... >Finally, he did attempt to figure out what was involved in getting the >sources. But, due to his lack of understanding of how the files are >packaged, he gave up. Plus, if the MS-DOS version is equally >lacking in VT100 support, he does not see much point in spending >the time to set up that version. The files are in a tar archive (.tar) which is then compressed (.Z) This is similar to what happens with .zip files (archived and compressed in one step). On one hand, your friend could learn how to use a unix machine to get the files and unpack them, and on the other hand, maybe someone should take all the files which comprise the current kit and create an equivalent .zip file and put it on gatekeeper... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 28 23:03:36 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E6A99D.53361A57@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <199808290403.AA23811@world.std.com> >That would be a very valuable aspect. Does any version of the Supnick >emulator have VT100 emulation? No... the emulator package is designed to emulate the processor (and some devices) only. It is somewhat expected that you run it with at least something that looks like an acceptable terminal to you... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 29 00:05:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: New Arrival In-Reply-To: References: <35E76F16.81446694@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> Message-ID: Please tell me you didn't get this at the Beaverton GW! I've never seen anything this good there. Actually this looks like it must have come from the Tigard one as they're the only ones I know of that trash the system and sell them in pieces, they're the only GW I've ever gotten a complete system from! That RAM card has GOT to be nice!!! Since it's as decked out as it is, have you checked to see if it's got an accelerated CPU? Zane >While not as exotic as other machines noted here today I found an Apple >][GS at a Goodwill store here in Oregon. > >It included: >4 MByte RAM card >Sider Hard drive (Haven't determined capacity) >GSOS on hard drive >Imagewriter ][ >3.5 inch floppy >5.25 inch floppy >Apple ][GS Color monitor > >They listed it as $60 but I offered $40 and they took it. >I don't think that was too bad as I remember the RAM card could be found >by itself for about $80-$100. > >Cheers, > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Aug 28 23:29:34 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: New Arrival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nope... It was the Hillsboro GW (surprise!) It actually the first Apple ][GS that I've seen at Goodwill. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Please tell me you didn't get this at the Beaverton GW! I've never seen > anything this good there. Actually this looks like it must have come from > the Tigard one as they're the only ones I know of that trash the system and > sell them in pieces, they're the only GW I've ever gotten a complete system > from! > > That RAM card has GOT to be nice!!! Since it's as decked out as it is, > have you checked to see if it's got an accelerated CPU? > > Zane > > > >While not as exotic as other machines noted here today I found an Apple > >][GS at a Goodwill store here in Oregon. > > > >It included: > >4 MByte RAM card > >Sider Hard drive (Haven't determined capacity) > >GSOS on hard drive > >Imagewriter ][ > >3.5 inch floppy > >5.25 inch floppy > >Apple ][GS Color monitor > > > >They listed it as $60 but I offered $40 and they took it. > >I don't think that was too bad as I remember the RAM card could be found > >by itself for about $80-$100. > > > >Cheers, > > > >George > > > >========================================================= > >George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com > >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 28 23:46:56 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:17 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom References: <199808290315.XAA21330@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35E787BE.16E6EA04@bbtel.com> What no room for an internal? If you have a sound card with a proprietry interface connection you could drop it right in. Bet you wish you had the tandy set now, huh? Jason Willgruber wrote: > Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured > with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external > drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. I'm not > sure if they were manufactured by IBM or not. I need it for my 5170 AT. > > I'm also looking for an original IBM 5170 AT keyboard. > > ThAnX in advance, > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 29 23:45:17 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <199808290450.AAA05072@gate.usaor.net> > What no room for an internal? If you have a sound card with a proprietry > interface connection you could drop it right in. Bet you wish you had the tandy > set now, huh? > Not really. There's room for an internal, and I have a sound card, and a Mitsumi external w/ a blown controller. I'm just trying to find one of the drives that could originally be purchased with the AT (or at least a 3rd party accessory). -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From darkside at digicron.com Fri Aug 28 23:51:15 1998 From: darkside at digicron.com (Poesie De La Fenetre) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Twin Cities: mac acquire Message-ID: <35E788C3.53B9@digicron.com> well, I missed the meeting of you TC folks. But my excuse is valid... I picked up a mac Quadra 950, w/ tons of cool A/V stuff, and a 21 inch supermac monitor. Nothing 10 years old, except one of the hard drives- a 1.2 gig micropolis scsi made in 1987. huge. so, be that as it may, I cannot get the system to boot correctly with both the boot drive and this other drive hooked up at once. not a scsi ID conflict; if i unplug the big old micropolis, it boots, and i can plug it back in while it's running and it's accessable. it's not marked as a boot disk, a startup disk, and it has no system software on it. I'm lost. Forgive my non-ancient computer babbling (1992, that's 6 yrs... seems like a lot more to me, however :) -Eric From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 29 00:56:47 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: New Arrival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Nope... It was the Hillsboro GW (surprise!) That is a surprise, I've found them to be the worst in this area! I haven't even bothered to visit them in months. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 29 01:11:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <199808290403.AA23811@world.std.com> References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E6A99D.53361A57@halcyon.com> Message-ID: >No... the emulator package is designed to emulate the processor (and >some devices) only. > >It is somewhat expected that you run it with at least something that >looks like an acceptable terminal to you... OK, here is a Linuxy sort of question. It works terrific for the most part if I run it from the console, but if I try to run it from a Xterm under X-Windows, the keybindings are all messed up. Is anyone running it under Linux and X-Windows (I'm trying to remember if I've got the same problem under AIX on a RS6k). I've also got problems with KED saving wierd strings of words to my data files when I save a text file. I'm about ready to hook one of my VT terminals up to the P2 so I've got an actual DEC terminal that I can run this stuff on and see if that helps, but it is a MAJOR pain to get to the back of the system to plug the cable in :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 29 00:24:08 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It would appear that I am in dire need of some guidance in how to bring up my MicroVAX 2000. To bring things up to a current baseline, it is equipped with 14Mb of RAM, an RD54 HD, external connection option, and has a TK50Z-FA connected to it. Except for a flat battery, the uVAX seems to pass all the tests, and the tape drive seems functional. Unfortunately, I have no documentation on this hardware except pieces that I have picked up from this list, the FAQ, and other odd pieces picked up on various websites. I have on hand several tapes for VMS - v5.4 and 5.5 - most but not all say that they are binary. Some are characterized as 'mandatory update'. At any rate, after inserting the tape (#1) in the drive, closing the door, and pressing the illuminated red pushbutton, I enter 'b/1 mua0' at the terminal. After some passage of time (accompanied by whirring sounds and flashing lights), I see on the screen: -MUA0 Then later: %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765 %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2 84 FAIL >>> If I attempt to boot with a known non bootable tape, the screen is the same except that instead of '84 FAIL' it displays: ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000E64 >>> Regrettably, I have neither the experience nor the documentation to get me any further at this point. I really need some pointers and/or help! Thanks. - don From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 29 01:05:38 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Power adapter question In-Reply-To: <8142231@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 28 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > I have a generic power adapter that's rated 9VAC, 780mA. ^^^^^ I don't think the voltage will be a problem, but the amperage looks a little low on that supply. Atari supplied power supplies rated between 1.7A and a whopping 5.6A for the 400. The AC VIC-20 power supply I have is rated at 3A. I don't know what the actual requirements of the systems are, but I'd be a little wary of using a 780mA power supply. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sat Aug 29 02:17:10 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Deja vu In-Reply-To: <35E778DA.17AF98DF@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 28, 98 11:43:22 pm Message-ID: <199808290717.AAA11430@saul2.u.washington.edu> > You neglect to mention the begathons every PBS station does for at > least two weeks every quarter. That's true (and they are very annoying). So there is a downside to PBS. I wonder if they're telling the whole truth about their money policies during those pledge drives? I'd really like to know more details about where they get their money and how they spend it. -- Derek From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 29 02:27:53 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Torx screws are turning up in all sorts of computer stuff, including > classics. Printers, disk drives, tape drives, laptops, etc, etc, etc all > need Toex drivers to dismantle them. So you may well find a complete set > a useful thing to get. Yes, I can see why a complete set might be useful. But does a regular set that one would buy at the local hardware store have the extended length Macintosh-opening driver? > > [re: logic probes] > > > > I just bought a 'cheap' Radio Shack logic probe today, also 10MHz. > > Sounds like the same one I used. Plenty good enough for 90% of the > computers you're likely to work on. I think only two of the 35 (? <-- I've lost count again already) machines in my posession have _processor_ clocks faster than 10MHz, so it should do fine. :) > > Unfortunately, tonight I was powering it with a cheap Radio Shack power > > adapter, and it was screetching and had the PULSE light on no matter where > > I made contact. So probably I need a power supply with better filtering. > > If it is the same one, that's a sure sign there's ripple on the power > supply. What is 'ripple' on the power supply? :) > > Anyway, I don't know what the heck I'm doing with this thing yet. But > > Learning to use one properly, and interpret all the indications, is quite > hard. Do you have a simple computer with schematics? (something like an > Apple ][ would be ideal). Unfortunately my ][+ clone is quite ill, and is in increasing need of medical help. But I do have the VIC-20 and Commodore 64 schematics, too. I think there may be a few errors on the schematics, and those machines have a few custom parts, but I may as well play with those machines as anything else. When I bought my very first VIC-20, back in 1990, it was my intention to tear it apart and learn something about electronics with it. It was in a smashed up case and looked rather forlorn, and I think there was a metal screw or two that had found their way into the case. But when I got it home, the darn thing worked, and I got hooked, and I didn't want to do anything to harm my little VIC. :) That was the machine that started my 'collection'. The first machine that I had bought as something just to have around, to play with, etc, instead of as my main computer. Now I have three VIC-20s, and that original VIC is definitely in the worst shape of the three. It has a damaged cartridge connector and it now lives in a Commodore 64 case. So I may as well haul it out and use it for my originally intended purpose. > Start by looking at the CPU clock signal, and the address and data buses. > Get to know what normal activity looks like. Look at some I/O select > signal (that C400 strobe on the games connector of an Apple ][ would do). > Run a program to trigger that, and see what that looks like. Etc. > > The idea is to look at as many known signals as you can and see what the > logic probe shows. Yeah, neat. I don't know how "known" any of the signals will be, though. :) > > I also did a very dumb thing today in that I bought the wrong connectors > > for the Mac->Amiga mouse cable I wanted to build. I bought one of each > > sex, which any lame-brained dimwit would recognize as wrong as the two > > machines in question use ports of the opposite sex. > > Ooops... > > Another tip. Whenever I buy low-cost/common components - like D > connectors, resistors, capacitors, TTL chips, etc, I always buy a few > more, and a few related ones. These were common, but definitely NOT low-cost! I didn't bother to find out how much they were until after I had already paid for them (dammit!). The prices weren't on them, only bar codes. Something which I think should be illegal. Most of the computers in my collection cost me less than those two 9-pin connectors. (The connectors were about $5 each!) > If I think I need the plug, I'll buy a socket as well. If I think I > need an AND gate, I'll get a NAND and an OR as well. In no time at all, > you'll have a box of oddments for fixing machines, trying hacks, etc. I'll have to find an INEXPENSIVE source of parts before I do that. I know of one place that is considerably less expensive than Radio Shack, but it's much more expensive in time. It takes me about two hours to get there by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). A lot of their parts are surplus or recycled (pulled out of murdered VIC-20s and stuff). > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 29 03:09:34 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK References: Message-ID: <35E7B73E.D2205B2F@cnct.com> Doug Spence wrote: > These were common, but definitely NOT low-cost! I didn't bother to find > out how much they were until after I had already paid for them (dammit!). > The prices weren't on them, only bar codes. > > Something which I think should be illegal. > > Most of the computers in my collection cost me less than those two 9-pin > connectors. (The connectors were about $5 each!) You're young yet. When the item doesn't have a visible price, the standard system is to go to the first employee you can catch (tricky in some electronics/computer stores I'll admit) and ask "what's this bastard cost?" (I learned that trick by the time I was eight, people keep telling me that schools in Canada are better than those I kept from ruining my education in California by having acquired a library before the schools acquired me, but sometimes I wonder). It _is_ possible to turn down a transaction at the checkout counter in most places I know -- I must assume you were paying by card rather than cash and didn't read the slip you were signing -- I'm sorry if you get offended by the term "evolution in action". Marry a girl with financial sense and your kids should be fine. > I know of one place that is considerably less expensive than Radio Shack, > but it's much more expensive in time. It takes me about two hours to get > there by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). If Intertan has changed policies that radically from Tandy in the past decade, it hasn't been mentioned in the stockholder reports I get -- you _can_ ask the price and you _can_ read the charge slip before you sign it. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 29 03:36:49 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > Yes, I can see why a complete set might be useful. But does a regular set > that one would buy at the local hardware store have the extended length > Macintosh-opening driver? I walked into a chain hardware store locally and didn't have a problem finding both a torx set and an extension for the handle (or perhaps it was an extended handle torx driver?) At any rate, they are readily available. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From rax at warbaby.com Sat Aug 29 04:56:16 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don wondered: >the terminal. After some passage of time (accompanied by whirring >sounds and flashing lights), I see on the screen: > >-MUA0 > That's the old way of writing muhhahha. Ghost in the machine, I think... R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Aug 29 06:19:54 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <6a4b4fa4.35e7e3da@aol.com>> In a message dated 98-08-29 02:16:04 EDT, you write: << Not really. There's room for an internal, and I have a sound card, and a Mitsumi external w/ a blown controller. I'm just trying to find one of the drives that could originally be purchased with the AT (or at least a 3rd party accessory). >> a cd rom for a 5170? that machine was announced ~1984 and IBM didnt have a cd rom drive for an option way back then. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Aug 29 06:21:09 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <13a34eaa.35e7e425@aol.com>> In a message dated 98-08-29 03:20:00 EDT, you write: << >> You neglect to mention the begathons every PBS station does for at > > least two weeks every quarter. > That's true (and they are very annoying). So there is a downside to PBS. > I wonder if they're telling the whole truth about their money policies during > those pledge drives? I'd really like to know more details about where they > get their money and how they spend it. -- Derek >> how does this fit into classiccmp? From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Aug 29 08:06:32 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980829080632.006b2a7c@pop3.concentric.net> Sears carries the the long torx driver for the Mac for under $4 everyday of the week. John At 03:27 AM 8/29/98 -0400, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> Torx screws are turning up in all sorts of computer stuff, including >> classics. Printers, disk drives, tape drives, laptops, etc, etc, etc all >> need Toex drivers to dismantle them. So you may well find a complete set >> a useful thing to get. > >Yes, I can see why a complete set might be useful. But does a regular set >that one would buy at the local hardware store have the extended length >Macintosh-opening driver? > >> > [re: logic probes] >> > >> > I just bought a 'cheap' Radio Shack logic probe today, also 10MHz. >> >> Sounds like the same one I used. Plenty good enough for 90% of the >> computers you're likely to work on. > >I think only two of the 35 (? <-- I've lost count again already) machines >in my posession have _processor_ clocks faster than 10MHz, so it should do >fine. :) > >> > Unfortunately, tonight I was powering it with a cheap Radio Shack power >> > adapter, and it was screetching and had the PULSE light on no matter where >> > I made contact. So probably I need a power supply with better filtering. >> >> If it is the same one, that's a sure sign there's ripple on the power >> supply. > >What is 'ripple' on the power supply? :) > >> > Anyway, I don't know what the heck I'm doing with this thing yet. But >> >> Learning to use one properly, and interpret all the indications, is quite >> hard. Do you have a simple computer with schematics? (something like an >> Apple ][ would be ideal). > >Unfortunately my ][+ clone is quite ill, and is in increasing need of >medical help. But I do have the VIC-20 and Commodore 64 schematics, too. >I think there may be a few errors on the schematics, and those machines >have a few custom parts, but I may as well play with those machines as >anything else. > >When I bought my very first VIC-20, back in 1990, it was my intention to >tear it apart and learn something about electronics with it. It was in a >smashed up case and looked rather forlorn, and I think there was a metal >screw or two that had found their way into the case. But when I got it >home, the darn thing worked, and I got hooked, and I didn't want to do >anything to harm my little VIC. :) > >That was the machine that started my 'collection'. The first machine that >I had bought as something just to have around, to play with, etc, instead >of as my main computer. > >Now I have three VIC-20s, and that original VIC is definitely in the worst >shape of the three. It has a damaged cartridge connector and it now lives >in a Commodore 64 case. So I may as well haul it out and use it for my >originally intended purpose. > >> Start by looking at the CPU clock signal, and the address and data buses. >> Get to know what normal activity looks like. Look at some I/O select >> signal (that C400 strobe on the games connector of an Apple ][ would do). >> Run a program to trigger that, and see what that looks like. Etc. >> >> The idea is to look at as many known signals as you can and see what the >> logic probe shows. > >Yeah, neat. I don't know how "known" any of the signals will be, though. >:) > >> > I also did a very dumb thing today in that I bought the wrong connectors >> > for the Mac->Amiga mouse cable I wanted to build. I bought one of each >> > sex, which any lame-brained dimwit would recognize as wrong as the two >> > machines in question use ports of the opposite sex. >> >> Ooops... >> >> Another tip. Whenever I buy low-cost/common components - like D >> connectors, resistors, capacitors, TTL chips, etc, I always buy a few >> more, and a few related ones. > >These were common, but definitely NOT low-cost! I didn't bother to find >out how much they were until after I had already paid for them (dammit!). >The prices weren't on them, only bar codes. > >Something which I think should be illegal. > >Most of the computers in my collection cost me less than those two 9-pin >connectors. (The connectors were about $5 each!) > >> If I think I need the plug, I'll buy a socket as well. If I think I >> need an AND gate, I'll get a NAND and an OR as well. In no time at all, >> you'll have a box of oddments for fixing machines, trying hacks, etc. > >I'll have to find an INEXPENSIVE source of parts before I do that. > >I know of one place that is considerably less expensive than Radio Shack, >but it's much more expensive in time. It takes me about two hours to get >there by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). > >A lot of their parts are surplus or recycled (pulled out of murdered >VIC-20s and stuff). > >> -tony > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 29 08:30:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808291330.AA23066@world.std.com> < On one hand, your friend could learn how to use a unix machine to < get the files and unpack them, and on the other hand, maybe someone < should take all the files which comprise the current kit and create < an equivalent .zip file and put it on gatekeeper... Or behind the third do there is gunzip and detar for DOS. Also available for most of the same archives as the Supnik emulators. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 29 08:30:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000 Message-ID: <199808291330.AA23381@world.std.com> < It would appear that I am in dire need of some guidance in how to bring < up my MicroVAX 2000. To bring things up to a current baseline, it is < equipped with 14Mb of RAM, an RD54 HD, external connection option, and < has a TK50Z-FA connected to it. So far a fine machine. < I have on hand several tapes for VMS - v5.4 and 5.5 - most but not all < say that they are binary. Some are characterized as 'mandatory update' Good! < At any rate, after inserting the tape (#1) in the drive, closing the < door, and pressing the illuminated red pushbutton, I enter 'b/1 mua0' a < the terminal. After some passage of time (accompanied by whirring < sounds and flashing lights), I see on the screen: < < -MUA0 Oops! It may be other than MUA0 or could be MKA7 (try 0-7 for both). < Then later: < < %VMB-F-ERR, PC = 00000765 < %VMB-I-STS, R0 = 000008C2 < 84 FAIL That means wrong or unusable device, or wrong media. If you do a T 50 you get a map of devices. so you know: One line that gives looks like this: FFFFF03 FFFFF05 FFFFF05 FFFFF05 FFFFF05 FFFFF05 FFFFF05 The FFFFF03 is the address of the tape, in this case device 0. the 05s means no device at that address. MM memory management NI eithernet module NVR battery backed up ram TPC tape controller DZ serial line controller FP Floating point HDC hard disks/floppies 4pln 4 plane graphics coprocessor 8pln 8 plane graphics coporcessor MONO monochrome video (bare bones) DUA0 is the hard disk which has ???? on it. Allison From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 29 08:58:55 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Twin Cities: mac acquire Message-ID: <8158760@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Poesie De La Fenetre wrote: well, I missed the meeting of you TC folks. But my excuse is valid... I picked up a mac Quadra 950, w/ tons of cool A/V stuff, and a 21 inch supermac monitor. Nothing 10 years old, except one of the hard drives- a 1.2 gig micropolis scsi made in 1987. huge. so, be that as it may, I cannot get the system to boot correctly with both the boot drive and this other drive hooked up at once. not a scsi ID conflict; if i unplug the big old micropolis, it boots, and i can plug it back in while it's running and it's accessable. it's not marked as a boot disk, a startup disk, and it has no system software on it. I'm lost. --- end of quote --- Could be a termination thing. Sometimes drives that used to be internal get used as externals, but they still have the termination jumper "on" which renders them unrecognizable to the system (don't know why it comes up when you hot-swap it, though). I think the termination jumper pins are usually labelled "T1." -- MB From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Aug 29 09:27:16 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <980829102716.25c0011e@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >I've also got problems with KED saving wierd strings of words to my data >files when I save a text file. I'm about ready to hook one of my VT >terminals up to the P2 so I've got an actual DEC terminal that I can run >this stuff on and see if that helps, but it is a MAJOR pain to get to the >back of the system to plug the cable in :^( This must be a real bug in the emulator - I've seen this (random junk past end-of-file) happen too. It seems to have no effect outside of KED, strangely enough. ----- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Sat Aug 29 10:38:54 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom In-Reply-To: <199808290450.AAA05072@gate.usaor.net> from Jason Willgruber at "Aug 30, 98 00:45:17 am" Message-ID: <199808291538.LAA09246@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > > What no room for an internal? If you have a sound card with a proprietry > > interface connection you could drop it right in. Bet you wish you had the > tandy > > set now, huh? > > > Not really. There's room for an internal, and I have a sound card, and a > Mitsumi external w/ a blown controller. I'm just trying to find one of the > drives that could originally be purchased with the AT (or at least a 3rd > party accessory). > -- I've got a spare Mitsumi controller here... and a spare Mitsumi and a couple of Panasonics. I've been picking 'em up for $10 as is from some local joints. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Sat Aug 29 10:44:25 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <199808290403.AA23811@world.std.com> from Megan at "Aug 29, 98 00:03:36 am" Message-ID: <199808291544.LAA09365@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > > >That would be a very valuable aspect. Does any version of the Supnick > >emulator have VT100 emulation? > > No... the emulator package is designed to emulate the processor (and > some devices) only. > > It is somewhat expected that you run it with at least something that > looks like an acceptable terminal to you... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > At least the Unix boxes all can do Xterm or Rxvt for VT100 (and I guess eventually I'll get the keymaps figured out.) On MS-DOS there's not much except fansi console or nansi.sys for good vt100 emulation. Nansi has some problems on some new boxes. I haven't heard much about fansi console since it went mostly commercial. Bill From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 29 11:05:13 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <19980829160513.13303.qmail@hotmail.com> I haven't seen the particular pictures that you refer to but I have a weird DATEXT cd with the width of the case about that of an AT. It has a card too. Never tried it, but it turns on fine. >Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictureded >with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external i >drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. I'm not >sure if they were manufactured by IBM or not. I need it for my 5170 AT. > >I'm also looking for an original IBM 5170 AT keyboard. > >ThAnX in advance, >-- > -Jason >(roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 29 12:18:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <199808291544.LAA09365@pechter.dyn.ml.org> References: <199808290403.AA23811@world.std.com> from Megan at "Aug 29, 98 00:03:36 am" Message-ID: >At least the Unix boxes all can do Xterm or Rxvt for VT100 >(and I guess eventually I'll get the keymaps figured out.) WARNING, depending on the version of UNIX that you are running, you might need to run it from the command line, instead of under X-Windows in a Xterm. On my P2 running RedHat 5.1, I can get the keys to work properly from the command line, but under X-Windows. Right now I'm wondering if it will compile using GCC for VMS :^) Zane > >On MS-DOS there's not much except fansi console or nansi.sys for good >vt100 emulation. Nansi has some problems on some new boxes. I haven't >heard much about fansi console since it went mostly commercial. > > >Bill | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 11:52:44 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <199808291705.NAA08078@gate.usaor.net> Well, I don't think it was made exactly for the AT, but I know that I've seen them in old pictures with an AT. I'm not sure about the date, and I don't think they were made by IBM, either. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom > Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 7:19 AM > > In a message dated 98-08-29 02:16:04 EDT, you write: > > << Not really. There's room for an internal, and I have a sound card, and a > Mitsumi external w/ a blown controller. I'm just trying to find one of the > drives that could originally be purchased with the AT (or at least a 3rd > party accessory). >> > > a cd rom for a 5170? that machine was announced ~1984 and IBM didnt have a cd > rom drive for an option way back then. From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 11:54:32 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Power adapter question Message-ID: <199808291705.NAA08086@gate.usaor.net> If you need an Atari 400 power supply, I have one. It just needs a new plug. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Doug Spence > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Power adapter question > Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 2:05 AM > > > > On 28 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > > > I have a generic power adapter that's rated 9VAC, 780mA. > ^^^^^ > > I don't think the voltage will be a problem, but the amperage looks a > little low on that supply. > > Atari supplied power supplies rated between 1.7A and a whopping 5.6A for > the 400. > > The AC VIC-20 power supply I have is rated at 3A. > > I don't know what the actual requirements of the systems are, but I'd be a > little wary of using a 780mA power supply. > > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ > From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 11:57:41 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <199808291705.NAA08094@gate.usaor.net> Let me explain: The drive that is blown plugs into the parallel port. The drive is a Mitsumi that works, but there is something wrong with the controller in the external box. I have a few internal Mitsumi controllers, and they all run the drive, but the drive won't function in the external case. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Bill Pechter > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom > Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 11:38 AM > > > I've got a spare Mitsumi controller here... and a spare Mitsumi > and a couple of Panasonics. > > I've been picking 'em up for $10 as is from some local joints. > > Bill From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 11:59:46 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: DATEXT CD-ROM Message-ID: <199808291705.NAA08100@gate.usaor.net> Hi! That sounds like what I'm looking for. Do you know if there's a date on it anywhere? How much would you be willing to sell it for? I also have an EGA monitor w/card, if you'd be willing to trade. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Max Eskin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom > Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 12:05 PM > > > > I haven't seen the particular pictures that you refer to but I have > a weird DATEXT cd with the width of the case about that of an AT. It has > a card too. Never tried it, but it turns on fine. > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Aug 29 12:27:59 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 29, 98 09:18:37 am Message-ID: <199808291727.KAA07430@fraser.sfu.ca> > Right now I'm wondering if it will compile using GCC for VMS :^) I'm not sure about gcc specifically, but there are directions in the docs for building it under VMS. Bob Supnik works for DEC, after all! (Well, COMPAQ I suppose... :-( ) Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 12:49:46 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: DATEXT CD-ROM Message-ID: <199808291758.NAA15623@gate.usaor.net> Oops. That wasn't supposed to go to the list. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Jason Willgruber > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: DATEXT CD-ROM > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 12:59 PM > > Hi! > > That sounds like what I'm looking for. Do you know if there's a date on it > anywhere? How much would you be willing to sell it for? I also have an > EGA monitor w/card, if you'd be willing to trade. > > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > From stanp at storm.ca Sat Aug 29 14:03:38 1998 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK References: Message-ID: <35E8508A.684ABD32@storm.ca> Doug Spence wrote: > On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > <> > > If it is the same one, that's a sure sign there's ripple on the power > > supply. > > What is 'ripple' on the power supply? :) > Ripple is AC noise (usually incoming line frequency or a multiple thereof) on th DC supply line that has not been filtered out by the PS. Its presence is an indication of a failing or failed fileter capacitor or a load beyond design specs. Stan <> From g at ehrich.com Sat Aug 29 14:14:35 1998 From: g at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom In-Reply-To: <199808291705.NAA08078@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808291908.MAA07032@mxu4.u.washington.edu> I have plus lots of other old items for sale on my web site listed below: http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Try the riddles while you are there. Gene ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 29 14:10:05 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: New Arrival In-Reply-To: <35E76F16.81446694@joyce.eng.yale.eduop> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Aug 1998, Tony Dellett wrote: > The Northstar Advantage I purchased arrived today. Fired it up, booted > into Graphic CP/M 2.2. Everything seems to work peachy! > > Don Maslin, the boot disk you sent me was for a single floppy drive plus > HD system. Would you like me to send you a copy of the Dual Floppy boot > disk I made? That would be great, Tony. - don From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 29 14:45:55 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Commodore Select HD 40 Message-ID: <8163016@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 808 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980829/b655bd09/attachment.bin From dann at greycat.com Sat Aug 29 14:58:14 1998 From: dann at greycat.com (Dann Lunsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808292002.NAA24828@mxu1.u.washington.edu> In , on 08/29/98 at 09:18 AM, "Zane H. Healy" said: >Right now I'm wondering if it will compile using GCC for VMS :^) Yup, it does. Run it on my VAXstations. Quite nice. -- Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil * dann@greycat.com * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero * "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 29 15:31:00 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808292031.AA24254@world.std.com> >I'm not sure about gcc specifically, but there are directions in the docs >for building it under VMS. Bob Supnik works for DEC, after all! (Well, >COMPAQ I suppose... :-( ) Not just directions for building on VMS... there should be a set of .COM files which do it for you. BTW - Did the makefile I wrote ever make it into the distributed emulator kit? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Aug 29 15:56:55 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Teeny Tiny Jumpers (reprise) Message-ID: <01bdd38f$8e64d9c0$1e28a2ce@manney> I _AM_ my local overpriced computer store, and I don't have any! Can you ask 'em for me, please? Thanks, manney > >> Grant sent me some, but they weren't teeny tiny enough. These are 3/32" >> across, but the pins are only about 1/16" tall. Anyone have any? >> Thanks >> manney@lrbcg.com > >hmm, my local overpriced computer store has em for sale... >i doubt they are that hard to find. > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 29 17:04:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: DATEXT CD-ROM Message-ID: <19980829220406.4657.qmail@hotmail.com> It's dated 1986. Be warned that it has no drivers. I pluged the controller in today, and it does seem to do something, but DOS can't find it by itself. Where are you located? This is quite large. I would give it to you for the price of shipping and certain items which we can discuss (I am in Boston). I wonder if I would find the Mitsumi that you have useful for my laptop... >That sounds like what I'm looking for. Do you know if there's a date on it >anywhere? How much would you be willing to sell it for? I also have an >EGA monitor w/card, if you'd be willing to trade. > >ThAnX, >-- > -Jason >(roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > >---------- >> From: Max Eskin >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Re: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom >> Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 12:05 PM >> >> >> >> I haven't seen the particular pictures that you refer to but I have >> a weird DATEXT cd with the width of the case about that of an AT. It has >> a card too. Never tried it, but it turns on fine. >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 29 17:05:58 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Sorry! Message-ID: <19980829220558.8866.qmail@hotmail.com> None of those were meant for the list. My manners aren't as bad as they seem to be :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 29 16:10:28 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 29, 98 03:27:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 6144 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980829/d9544fb0/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Aug 29 18:36:29 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom In-Reply-To: <199808290315.XAA21330@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980829183629.00c8a100@pc> At 11:09 PM 8/29/98 -0400, Jason Willgruber wrote: >Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured >with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external >drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. I saw three or four Hitachi zeroth/first-generation 1x CD-ROM readers at the University of Wisconsin--Madison suplus sale two weeks ago, I think they were either $1 or $5 each. I don't remember which interface these use. I'm not sure when I'll be back. - John From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 29 18:42:15 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Power adapter question Message-ID: <8166242@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- You wrote: On 28 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > I have a generic power adapter that's rated 9VAC, 780mA. ^^^^^ I don't think the voltage will be a problem, but the amperage looks a little low on that supply. Atari supplied power supplies rated between 1.7A and a whopping 5.6A for the 400. The AC VIC-20 power supply I have is rated at 3A. I don't know what the actual requirements of the systems are, but I'd be a little wary of using a 780mA power supply. --- end of quote --- Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. I HAD read what the amperage should be, but I guess I had a brain cramp when I ordered that 780mA job. Maybe I couldn't resist the price -- $2.50 from American Science and Surplus. Just ordered the right ones this afternoon, one from somebody on the list and one from a guy in Minnesota (no, not the jerk that withheld the specs from me, another guy). Thanks for correcting me. :) -- MB From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 29 19:44:00 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator In-Reply-To: <199808292031.AA24254@world.std.com> Message-ID: Megan Gentry wrote: >Not just directions for building on VMS... there should be a set of .COM >files which do it for you. Yes, there is, but my question had been if gcc can compile it on VMS, or if it required DEC C, obviously it will work with gcc on VAX VMS based on a earlier reply. >BTW - Did the makefile I wrote ever make it into the distributed emulator >kit? I just checked. It's there. Of course you realize what I'm now wondering is if I can compile the emulator code on a PDP-11 using DECUS C or Whitesmith C.... Hmmm, I just might have to give that a try. Wonder how K&R friendly that code is :^) Before anyone asks, yes, there are reasons why a person might want to do this, though in my case it would be a, "to see if it can be done, sort of thing". Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Aug 29 19:28:32 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Yamaha system question In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980209145747.624f99e6@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808300024.TAA27067@trailingedge.com> I was looking through a store the other day and saw a Yamaha CX5M (I think) Music Computer. It had an MSX in one corner so I guess it was a child of that standard attempt. There was also a MIDI module on it but no storage device, docs, etc. There is a port for a monitor and one for a cassette drive but of course I wouldn't know the pin outs to make a cable. Does anyone know anything about this system or have any thing on it they could tell me? I'm thinking about picking it up but haven't made up my mind yet. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 29 19:36:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Plus 4 schematic -> whom? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980830/eddc29c5/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Aug 29 20:25:01 1998 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <980829212501.25c0014c@timvax.trailing-edge.com> >Of course you realize what I'm now wondering is if I can compile the >emulator code on a PDP-11 using DECUS C or Whitesmith C.... You might compile, but it won't work - it's hard to map more than 64 kbytes at a time on a -11, and Bob Supnik's emulator assumes that there are no such silly limitations. Converting DECUS C to split I&D might get you a bit closer to 64 kbytes, but it still won't agree with Bob's emulator. Tim. From Joel at VirtualAdmin.com Sat Aug 29 21:20:45 1998 From: Joel at VirtualAdmin.com (Joel Fedorko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions Message-ID: Hey folks, I'm going to pickup a system in a week or two, and it's got RL02 Drives. I haven't seen one of these in years. Any shipping hints, locking screws, etc? Thanks. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 29 21:35:04 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Yamaha system question In-Reply-To: <199808300024.TAA27067@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 29 Aug 1998, David Williams wrote: > I was looking through a store the other day and saw a Yamaha > CX5M (I think) Music Computer. It had an MSX in one corner so I > guess it was a child of that standard attempt. There was also a > MIDI module on it but no storage device, docs, etc. There is a port > for a monitor and one for a cassette drive but of course I wouldn't > know the pin outs to make a cable. Does anyone know anything > about this system or have any thing on it they could tell me? I'm > thinking about picking it up but haven't made up my mind yet. This is a really neat system that came out in the mid-80s or so. It combined a home computer with a music synthesizer. I have one with external floppy and printer, plus a couple carthridges as well as the music keyboard to make it a real synthesizer. I also got the manual. I would suggest picking it up as you don't find many MSX machines to play with in the States. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 29 22:16:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator Message-ID: <199808300316.AA26634@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35E90CD8.9F0C5185@my-dejanews.com> John Lawson was kind enough to forward the attached missive to me. Nothing on the list that I can use, but others may have need. If so, contact the original author (William Hunt) directly. Thanks in advance. -=-=- -=-=- > From: wjh@user2.teleport.com (William Hunt) > Newsgroups: pdx.forsale,comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.dec,comp.os.misc,alt.technology.obsolete > Subject: FREE antique computer manuals (1975-1981) > Organization: Embassy of Mars > Lines: 29 > Message-ID: <6s9sih$lfo$1@user2.teleport.com> > Summary: Free is a very good price > Keywords: MPSI BOS DEC DG antique computer > X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:41:39 GMT > NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.108.254.19 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:41:39 PDT > Xref: ix.netcom.com pdx.forsale:84905 comp.os.cpm:26382 comp.sys.dec:68676 comp.os.misc:9635 alt.technology.obsolete:2374 > > FREE Antique Computer Manuals 1975-1981 > > MPSI (copies of originals) > - MicroCobol Systems Manual > - BOS/5 User Manual > - MicroCobol Interface Manual > > Data General > - User's Manual Introduction to Programming the Nova Computers > - Stand-Alone Operating System User's Manual > - User's Manual BATCH > - Real Time Operating System Reference Manual > - Disk Operating System (DOS) Reference Manual > - Introduction to the Real Time Disk Operating System > - Real Time Disk Operating System (RDOS) Reference Manual > - How to Load and Generate Your Nova-Line RDOS System > - RDOS/DOS Command Line Interpreter User's Manual > - Business BASIC Reference Manual > - Extended Basic User's Manual > - Extended Basic System Manager's Guide > > Digital Equipement Corp. > - PDP-11/05, 11/10 computer manual > - RK05 disk drive maintenance manual > > ==Free== to anyone crazy enough to take them; > Shipping/Handling beyond Portland Oregon region is extra; > -- > William Hunt, Portland Oregon USA wjh@teleport.com From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sun Aug 30 03:34:12 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... Message-ID: <35E90E84.E84ED1A4@my-dejanews.com> Yes, I'm (finally) back! I've got my system on Linux now for its primary, with NT supporting the stuff that hasn't been ported just yet (mainly EDA tools and the Micro House Tech Library). I must say, I am impressed. I've done things with Linux that would have crashed NT, hard, in a heartbeat, and it took them all in stride and kept on going. Anyway... I know Zane, at least, is wondering about the rescue I did from Fluke. It went well, and I've got a goodly pile of stuff now. I'll likely be getting rid of most of it, and I'll post a list here as soon as I can write one up. The first run of freebies will likely consist of a pair of PDP-11/04's and DSD-880's to match. Caveat emperor! From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Aug 30 04:01:14 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... In-Reply-To: <35E90E84.E84ED1A4@my-dejanews.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 30, 98 01:34:12 am Message-ID: <199808300901.CAA02231@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1138 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980830/c09ab8bb/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Sun Aug 30 05:14:20 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... References: <35E90E84.E84ED1A4@my-dejanews.com> Message-ID: <35E925FC.D60A1DE4@cnct.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > > Yes, I'm (finally) back! I've got my system on Linux now for its > primary, with NT supporting the stuff that hasn't been ported just yet > (mainly EDA tools and the Micro House Tech Library). > > I must say, I am impressed. I've done things with Linux that would have > crashed NT, hard, in a heartbeat, and it took them all in stride and > kept on going. You mean booting the system and keeping it up for 24 hours? That's something I've generally found to be a good way to crash NT. Or logging in -- that's even better, especially on a token ring net. -- Ward Griffiths When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 30 09:00:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:18 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... In-Reply-To: <35E90E84.E84ED1A4@my-dejanews.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 30, 98 01:34:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 653 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980830/6c92a321/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 30 09:03:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: RL02 Drive Transportaion Questions In-Reply-To: from "Joel Fedorko" at Aug 29, 98 10:20:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980830/871d45d0/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sun Aug 30 12:10:09 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... References: <199808300901.CAA02231@squeep.com> Message-ID: <35E98771.E92414A2@my-dejanews.com> Seth J. Morabito wrote: > One quick question -- I would dearly love to pick up some PDP stuff > (I'm badly in need of a rack, and disc or tape storage), but I > still don't quite know where you're located :) Not near the Bay > Area by any chance, are you? Not any longer, no, though I did grow up there. I'm in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle. If you're -really- desperate, I've got a MicroVAX II in a mini-rack that may still be up for grabs. It could be easily hauled in the back of a pickup truck. To be perfectly fair, though, I do want to add that there's one fellow back east who's looking into the cost of having the whole rack crated and shipped to him. Frankly, I think he's a couple fries shy of a Happy Meal. However, I should hear back from him next week. If he responds the way I think he's going to, it'll still be available. I've done the Bay-to-Seattle run several times. It's not that bad. If you drive intensively, you can make it in about 11-12 hours. Heck, just ask John Lawson. He came all the way through from L.A.! From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Aug 30 12:05:01 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: NewFinds Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980830120501.006a987c@pop3.concentric.net> It's been a little slow but a few items of interest have come by way, here a short list: 1) SoftPC for Next computer have not loaded it yet to test the programs 2) Next Blank opitcal disk not tested yet waiting on the drive I ordered 3) APX game casette for the Atari 400 called Ennumereight ver 1.0 APX-10204 4) Amiga model 1080 monitor 5) over a 30+ books and manuals 6) Wyse cpu WY-1100-2, kb and monitor 7) Zenith 512k station with 2 fdd on the side 8) Informer model 207 with nice blue carrying case 9) IBM 5153 color monitor 10) Laser 128 with power supply 11) IDEK li Yama color monitor with both Analog and Digital hookup 12) Osborne OCC1 missing KB, has modem unit 13) Compaq LTE286 notebook with power brick 14) Sanyo monitor DMC-7500 not tested yet 15) Macplus mouse and KB 16) 4-Coleco vision game cartridges one being neew to me called Antarctic Adventure 1984 by Konami 17) New in box A+ o[itcal mouse for IIc 18) Northgate 286 cpu only no kb or monitor with it 19) NEC powerMate SX/20i cpu only 20) more 2600 and coleco cartridges 21) Coleco TelStar alpha model 6030 and many more items that I can not list because age (not old enough yet). I will be back on the road again next week so I hope to get some new finds. Keep Computing John From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Aug 30 14:26:48 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: NewFinds In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980830120501.006a987c@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Aug 30, 98 12:05:01 pm" Message-ID: <199808301926.PAA05066@crobin.home.org> John, What happened with all that Mac stuff that the list was excited about last week? <<>> From dastar at verio.com Sun Aug 30 14:49:07 1998 From: dastar at verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: (fwd) Computer Non-Profit Suspends Operations Message-ID: <199808301949.MAA21626@ shell1.ncal.verio.com> I hope this isn't too late. Some of you in this area may get lucky and find some old stuff amongst the wreckage. -- forwarded message -- News Release Please Route/Distribute. (Photo/Interview Opportunities available -- see contact information below) Minneapolis based Non-Profit Computer Recycler to Re-organize ============================================== Will Temporarily Suspend Operations on August 31st Minneapolis, August 12, 1998 - Minneapolis-based DRAGnet, a non-profit computer recycler, will temporarily suspend all recycling, placement and technical operations on August 31st, 1998 due to a planned re-organization. An unplanned warehouse lease termination will also force a facilities re-location. As a result, DRAGnet will temporarily discontinue computer equipment donation acceptance or collection by Noon on Saturday, August 15th, 1998 until further notice. DRAGnet management also announced today that loss of its warehouse facilities will require a series of liquidation events before the end of this month. "Garage Sales" of all acquired computer equipment will be held each Thursday and Friday afternoon from 12:30 to 5:00 p.m. and Saturdays from 9:00 a.m. to Noon at their current warehouse location of 1100 Van Buren Street NE (approximately one block northwest of the Broadway and Central Avenue intersection). Proceeds will be used to retire debt and partially fund the re-location and re-organization. DRAGnet is the nation's largest EPA-licensed non-profit computer recycling operation. Even with service demand at record levels, DRAGnet management had targeted the end of 1998 as a period of re-assessment because of lagging funding support. The lease issue arose unexpectedly and will result in forcing the re-organization to begin several months earlier than anticipated. The re-organization plan involves examining the funding base for continued and expanded operations as well as addressing other organizational financial and staff issues. DRAGnet recycling programs have enjoyed enormous success in recent years including twice being publicly identified as "the national model that should be copied" by leading national non-profit and recycling sources. Despite the call for replication, funding from outside sources has lagged well behind the demand for service expansion. After recycling operations are temporarily suspended on August 31st, the DRAGnet Board of Directors will devote several months to examining various organization options and opportunities. This will include expanding and, potentially, replacing existing board members, exploring strategic alliances with area non-profits, secure funding resource commitments and/or, perhaps, discontinuing selected service programs if adequate funding sources are not identified. In addition to recycling over 12,000 computers each year, DRAGnet has rebuilt and placed thousands of refurbished computers throughout Minnesota and the United States. People with disabilities, low-income families, schools and churches have been the primary beneficiaries. DRAGnet currently has no individual, foundation or corporate financial supporters. - ### - Contact: Gordon Gillesby 1100 Van Buren Street NE Minneapolis, MN 55413-1537 612/378.9796 612/378.9794 (fax) www.dragnet.org info@dragnet.org -- end of forwarded message -- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Aug 30 17:01:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: 1984 (OT) Message-ID: <19980830220150.13277.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry about this, but since we have some politicians here, I thought this might be of interest: today, I was biking past the MA State Police station, and I noticed an interesting thing on the door: one of those Crime Watch 'eye' stickers, but instead of 'Crime Watch', it said 'Big Brother is Watching You'. I don't know how to take it; I guess someone in there has a very strange sense of humor. High on donuts or something.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Aug 30 17:38:20 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's PDP-11 Emulator References: <199808281104.HAA01241@pechter.dyn.ml.org> <35E6A783.C43FA5A7@halcyon.com> <35E7268A.37A27DA7@idirect.com> <199808290401.AA09827@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35E9D45C.198B14D3@halcyon.com> If you run any sort of Windows, it's worth getting the (sharware) program WinZip. It handles almost any type of compression/archiving transparently, including all Unix-style stuff. I guess I am so used to it, that I don't notice the difference between downloading a .ZIP file or a .TAR.Z file. WinZip gets me into both of them almost identically. If you're in DOS, there are command-line programs that will unzip, ungzip, untar, uudecode, etc. It's worth having those around, too. Dave Megan wrote: > > >Also, is there a DOC file? > > The documentation for the emulator comes in the source package... > > >Finally, he did attempt to figure out what was involved in getting the > >sources. But, due to his lack of understanding of how the files are > >packaged, he gave up. Plus, if the MS-DOS version is equally > >lacking in VT100 support, he does not see much point in spending > >the time to set up that version. > > The files are in a tar archive (.tar) which is then compressed (.Z) > This is similar to what happens with .zip files (archived and > compressed in one step). > > On one hand, your friend could learn how to use a unix machine to > get the files and unpack them, and on the other hand, maybe someone > should take all the files which comprise the current kit and create > an equivalent .zip file and put it on gatekeeper... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 18:03:05 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed Message-ID: <199808302308.TAA19548@gate.usaor.net> Does anyone have a data cable for a TRS-80 Line Printer II? I want to use it with the TRS-80 Model III, but don't have the cable. I've checked with RadioShack, and they no longer carry it. I also need boot/program disks for the TRS-80 Model III. ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 30 19:19:29 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed References: <199808302308.TAA19548@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35E9EC10.CF33043F@bbtel.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > Does anyone have a data cable for a TRS-80 Line Printer II? I want to use > it with the TRS-80 Model III, but don't have the cable. I've checked with > RadioShack, and they no longer carry it. I also need boot/program disks > for the TRS-80 Model III. You might Frank Larosa of Searchlight....he still runs a TRS-80 mod 3 on the net as a telnetted BBS, his original version of Searchlight BBS. He's at http://www.searchlight.com/frank/ He knows his TRS-80 3's and 4's. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 30 19:22:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed In-Reply-To: <199808302308.TAA19548@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Aug 30, 98 07:03:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 797 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/03d3ceca/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Sun Aug 30 19:36:21 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Barcode readers? Message-ID: <35E9F005.31FC9EC@interserv.com> Anyone out there up on Bar Code readers? Picked up a used one a while back, and I'm wondering about cabling, data output etc. I'll have to dig it out of a drawer at work (I was thinking of replacing the ancient time clock we have with bar coded employee id cards)... I know there's much more advanced technology, but, I work for a non-profit... Thanks! Will From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 20:14:52 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed Message-ID: <199808310122.VAA11382@gate.usaor.net> Nope. It's an edge card on both ends. The one on the TRS-80 is a floppy drive-type plug, but the one on the printer is a bit bigger (not sure how many pins). -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Tony Duell > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Cable needed > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 8:22 PM > > > > Is that the standard Model 3 printer cable? 34 pin card edge connector -> > 36 pin Amphenol plug? > > If so, then it's very easy to make one. All you need is an 34 pin IDC > edge connector, a 36 pin IDC 'Centronics' Amphenol plug and a suitable > length (2m, say) of 34 pin IDC cable. > > Just crimp the connectors onto the cable, leaving the 2 end pins > (furthest from pin 1) of the Amphenol plug unconnected. Use the striped > edge of the cable for pin 1. > > I can't remeber which pin on the model 3 is pin 1, alas. You may have to > plug the edge connector in boths ways round until it works. Shouldn't do > any damage if you get it wrong. > > -tony > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Aug 30 21:47:56 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: NewFinds In-Reply-To: <199808301926.PAA05066@crobin.home.org> Message-ID: <000001bdd489$c313ba60$b0b0adce@5x86jk> I'm waiting on Eric, he told me to hold off ??? I was ready Monday to make a offer to them. > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of John Ruschmeyer > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 2:27 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: NewFinds > > > John, > > What happened with all that Mac stuff that the list was excited about last > week? > > <<>> > From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 30 22:02:25 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a data cable for a TRS-80 Line Printer II? I want to use > > it with the TRS-80 Model III, but don't have the cable. I've checked with > > Is that the standard Model 3 printer cable? 34 pin card edge connector -> > 36 pin Amphenol plug? If that is the one that you need, e-mail me. I have one or two here. - don > If so, then it's very easy to make one. All you need is an 34 pin IDC > edge connector, a 36 pin IDC 'Centronics' Amphenol plug and a suitable > length (2m, say) of 34 pin IDC cable. > > Just crimp the connectors onto the cable, leaving the 2 end pins > (furthest from pin 1) of the Amphenol plug unconnected. Use the striped > edge of the cable for pin 1. > > I can't remeber which pin on the model 3 is pin 1, alas. You may have to > plug the edge connector in boths ways round until it works. Shouldn't do > any damage if you get it wrong. > > -tony > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 30 22:07:59 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: part identification Message-ID: <199808310307.AA29444@world.std.com> I'd like to identify the following: 33512, fairchild branding. 28 pin ceramic. Any idea what it is and if so information? Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 30 22:13:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: 1984 (OT) In-Reply-To: <19980830220150.13277.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > Sorry about this, but since we have some politicians here, I thought > this might be of interest: today, I was biking past the MA State > Police station, and I noticed an interesting thing on the door: > one of those Crime Watch 'eye' stickers, but instead of 'Crime Watch', > it said 'Big Brother is Watching You'. I don't know how to take it; > I guess someone in there has a very strange sense of humor. High on > donuts or something.... Sounds like the work of a clever and daring teenager to me. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 30 22:15:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX-80 first Sinclair kit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe I've heard reference to a kit computer that Sir Clive Sinclair sold before the ZX-80. Is this correct? If so, what was it called, what CPU was it based upon, and what year did it come out? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 30 22:33:18 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Any tips on servicing Marchant calculators? Message-ID: <199808310333.UAA00780@saul9.u.washington.edu> I just picked one up today. I don't know what kind of shape it's in. The salesman said, "Why wouldn't it be in working order?" -- I can think of many answers to that question and (as I know from reading the list) it's always a good idea to check something out before wrecking it by turning it on. My model is a tasteful shade of dark green, with "MARCHANT" in gold Art Deco- ish letters. I think it's one of the earlier electtric models (it may be one produced from 1939-1945). I'd like to know if there is any simple cleaning up I can do. What's the best way to clean the plastic exterior? Is it possible to operate the mechanism by hand? (The machine didn't come with a power cord. It's in an "unstable" state -- some dials are in intermediate positions, and some multiplier keys are engaged. So it might be a good idea to clear everything.) And does anyone have advice on repairs? I've taken off some of the panels and I was rather intimidated by the mechanical complexity. Then I did some reading on the Web and learned about the insane mechanisms these things use for speed (proportional gearing to handle the carries, tiny differentials, three drive- shafts, the division mechanism which has an analog comparator, etc.) and now I'm *really* intimidated. :) If there are any repairmen in the Seattle area, I'd love to hear about it. (The same guy had a Comptometer which I wish I had bought -- a friend of his apparently has it, and when she opens her store in November it will surely go for 1.5 to 3 times the price he was charging.) Thanks, -- Derek From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Aug 30 23:06:05 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: RAM Message-ID: <199808310406.WAA05915@calico.litterbox.com> Hi gang. In my various travels I have accumulated a ridiculous amount of DIP ram, which to me is entirely worthless. Does anyone have a use for 24 HY53C256LS-80 (other number is 9122B) (known good) or how about 36 8806B (the other number is MT1259-10) (unknown quality) Basically I hate to toss good silicon in the trash, so if you want these let me know and we'll arrange something - max cost would be postage. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Aug 30 23:16:42 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Yamaha system question In-Reply-To: <199808300024.TAA27067@trailingedge.com> References: <3.0.16.19980209145747.624f99e6@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199808310413.XAA15601@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:28:32 -0500 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "David Williams" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Yamaha system question > I was looking through a store the other day and saw a Yamaha > CX5M (I think) Music Computer. It had an MSX in one corner so I > guess it was a child of that standard attempt. There was also a > MIDI module on it but no storage device, docs, etc. There is a port > for a monitor and one for a cassette drive but of course I wouldn't > know the pin outs to make a cable. Does anyone know anything > about this system or have any thing on it they could tell me? I'm > thinking about picking it up but haven't made up my mind yet. > > Thanks. > It's an early MIDI sequencer that came out right at the same time as the DX-7 synth did. It was, IIRC, designed to allow basic tracking and editing of sequences. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 30 23:17:49 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed Message-ID: <199808310424.AAA10233@gate.usaor.net> Unfortunately, that's not the one that I need. I have 3 of them. I need one with an edge card on both ends. 34 pin on one end, and slightly larger on the other. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Cable needed > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 11:02 PM > > > Is that the standard Model 3 printer cable? 34 pin card edge connector -> > > 36 pin Amphenol plug? > > If that is the one that you need, e-mail me. I have one or two here. > > - don > From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 31 00:08:45 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Cable needed References: <199808310424.AAA10233@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35EA2FDD.B4C4395A@cnct.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Unfortunately, that's not the one that I need. I have 3 of them. I need > one with an edge card on both ends. 34 pin on one end, and slightly larger > on the other. > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > ---------- > > From: Don Maslin > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Re: Cable needed > > Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 11:02 PM > > > > > Is that the standard Model 3 printer cable? 34 pin card edge connector > -> > > > 36 pin Amphenol plug? > > > > If that is the one that you need, e-mail me. I have one or two here. It's been a long time and I always hated that printer, but I'm pretty sure it's a 36-pin edge (you've got the beast -- count the pins) connector, Tony's instructions will work with the trivial change of connector type. Radio Shack _never_ should have dealt with Centronics. Worst parts contracts in company history, rivalled only by the deal with Shugart for the hard drives for the Model II. Well, the one with Diablo for the original TRS-80 Daisy Wheel Printer is a contender, I guess -- and if you want to collect something _rare_, it's probably a good bet since I suspect most owners of the bastards took the term "boat anchor" as a good omen and used them the right way, salt water preferred -- if you find one, don't expect it to work, especially if it's in mint condition. -- Ward Griffiths When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 31 02:50:24 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX-80 first Sinclair kit? In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail "Sinclair ZX-80 first Sinclair kit?" (Aug 30, 20:15) References: Message-ID: <9808310850.ZM8289@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 30, 20:15, Sam Ismail wrote: > Subject: Sinclair ZX-80 first Sinclair kit? > > I believe I've heard reference to a kit computer that Sir Clive Sinclair > sold before the ZX-80. Is this correct? If so, what was it called, what > CPU was it based upon, and what year did it come out? I think you're referring to the MK14. It's a single board about 4" x 9" with a 20-key hex keypad and LED hex display at one end. The processor is an SC/MP, with 512bytes ROM (2 ICs) and 256 bytes of RAM (expandable to almost 2K) on early versions (I think later versions had more). Programming was done by entering opcodes in hex. It came out in late 1978 or early 1979, AFAIR. Take a look at http://users.aol.com/mk14emu/ for more information. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From gim at hitec-uk.com Mon Aug 31 05:36:41 1998 From: gim at hitec-uk.com (Grant I Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Booting up and LSI 11/23 Message-ID: <80256671.0039C3FA.00@hitec-uk.com> Can anyone point me in the right direction? What I've been told is.... Power on with LTA switch off (down) CPU Swith up (CPU) Init switch up at $ prompt type in drive name $ DK0 It now takes me back to the @ prompt. Type in 0g @0g and I get 000002 back. I'm assuming that the '2' I get back is an error of some sort. Can anyone shed any light on this one for me. Thanks in advance Grant Mitchell From jsalzman at hersheys.com Mon Aug 31 07:30:03 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: I have one in my basement. I don't know what it's condition is. It's been a while since I used it. It is labeled 'CD-Fiche' and looks about the same size as a CD player for a stereo component system. I'll have to see what I have left for it. I don't know if I have a driver or interface card anymore. the driver name was called HITACHIA.SYS (yes, the extra A is at the end). I do remember, it was SLOOOWWWW. Jeff Salzman >>Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured >>with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external >>drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. > From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 31 10:08:21 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Attention DEC fiends In-Reply-To: <8172@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808311316.IAA21092@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: I picked up this half-wide, brand-new looking q-bus card (well, it *looks* like q-Bus card to me). It is labelled: Codar Technology Model 170 Q-Monitor The thing has two Q-bus edge connectors, and a blue plastik pull tab on the other end that says "CTI". I looked up Codar on the web: They're a defence contractor that specializes in ruggedized and hardened computer and computer peripheral equipment (they started by building stuff for off-shore drilling rigs). It's probably made for some military application, but who knows? It may be useful to someone. Anybody want it? Jeff From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 31 08:31:05 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: NEEDED - IBM PS/2 SCSI DRIVES Message-ID: <35EAA598.8BD60C55@bbtel.com> Need a couple (any capacity) 3.5" SCSI hard drives to use in a couple PS/2 model 90's (8590) that are being donated to the school I'm setting up here. The machines are complete but no hard drives at all. The machines will end up as workstations under Win95 so I imagine 80's would have to be a minimum. Have tons of things to trade and would prefer that.This project is a total donation of time on my part and I'm trying to get as much together without a huge cost as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 08:42:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: RAM Message-ID: <19980831134251.10363.qmail@hotmail.com> I have here a 386 memory card (you know, the Compaq-type things) with 4 MB RAM in the form of 36 KM41C1000AP-8 chips. Are either of these chips equivalent? If so, I'll take them and populate as much more of the board as I can. > >Hi gang. > >In my various travels I have accumulated a ridiculous amount of DIP ram, which >to me is entirely worthless. > >Does anyone have a use for > >24 HY53C256LS-80 (other number is 9122B) (known good) > >or how about > >36 8806B (the other number is MT1259-10) (unknown quality) > >Basically I hate to toss good silicon in the trash, so if you want these >let me know and we'll arrange something - max cost would be postage. > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@calico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 08:46:42 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <19980831134643.9285.qmail@hotmail.com> I believe this is a drive file you have sent me when I was trying to get mine going. I lost it. Could you please send it, preferrably UUencoded, to me so that I can test? >I have one in my basement. I don't know what it's condition is. It's >been a while since I used it. It is labeled 'CD-Fiche' and looks about >the same size as a CD player for a stereo component system. I'll have to >see what I have left for it. I don't know if I have a driver or >interface card anymore. the driver name was called HITACHIA.SYS (yes, >the extra A is at the end). I do remember, it was SLOOOWWWW. > >Jeff Salzman > >>>Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured >>>with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external >>>drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From gentry at zk3.dec.com Mon Aug 31 08:47:27 1998 From: gentry at zk3.dec.com (Megan Gentry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: latest version of Bob Supnik's emulator Message-ID: <9808311347.AA18258@kamlia.zk3.dec.com> It appears I mis-typed the latest release... I plead insanity from having to type 'v3.2c' due to work on Digital unix (V3.2C)... Actually, the most up to date emulator is 2.3c.. Thanks to those who didn't publicly humiliate me and chose to send private mail... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry@zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg@world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From roblwill at usaor.net Mon Aug 31 09:12:07 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed) Message-ID: <199808311417.KAA06387@gate.usaor.net> The post about the Shugart HD's reminded me of something. I'm also looking for a hard drive and external disk boxes for a TRS-80 Model III. I'm not sure if the HD's needed to be special for the III (never had a HD for it), but I had model 1 disk drives on it, and they were working. So any model disk box should be O.K. ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 31 09:21:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM odd IDE (44 vs 40 pins, 46 vs 44 pins)? In-Reply-To: <19980831134251.10363.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 31, 98 06:42:50 am Message-ID: <199808311421.KAA19166@user2.infinet.com> I'm looking for information on IBM's proprietary IDE format. I have a 44-pin drive from a PS/2-30 (I have the CPU, too, but it has a 50Mb RLL on a card), and a 2.5" laptop drive with *46* pins plus master/slave, not the usual 44. I'm really trying to use the 2.5" drive (in a CD-32 w/SX-1 expansion, FWIW), but it came in an IBM housing to snap into an IBM laptop, with an IBM cable... Pinouts, pin swabbers, etc. all welcome. Thanks, -ethan From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Mon Aug 31 10:08:11 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM odd IDE (44 vs 40 pins, 46 vs 44 pins)? In-Reply-To: <199808311421.KAA19166@user2.infinet.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Aug 31, 98 10:21:05 am" Message-ID: <199808311508.LAA11478@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > > I'm looking for information on IBM's proprietary IDE format. I have a 44-pin > drive from a PS/2-30 (I have the CPU, too, but it has a 50Mb RLL on a card), > and a 2.5" laptop drive with *46* pins plus master/slave, not the usual 44. > > I'm really trying to use the 2.5" drive (in a CD-32 w/SX-1 expansion, FWIW), > but it came in an IBM housing to snap into an IBM laptop, with an IBM cable... > > Pinouts, pin swabbers, etc. all welcome. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > > Watch out the PS/2 30 may be ESDI not IDE. The IBM drive just unscrews from the platic housing and it's just a 2 1/2 inch IDE drive with the power on the additional pins. The standard $5.00 2 1/2 IDE to regular IDE should work, I think... I've got one and it seemed to be a standard IDE laptop drive (340mb). Bill From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 31 10:13:58 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run) In-Reply-To: <35E925FC.D60A1DE4@cnct.com> References: <35E90E84.E84ED1A4@my-dejanews.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc> WinNT is quite stable. I've been running it for years - since 3.0, I think, under heavy daily software development. Judging from the reports I hear, I think it's a bit more sensitive to less-than-perfect motherboards, RAM, or peripherals. I've had perhaps two blue screens of death, probably due to bad drivers. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 31 10:07:01 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Barcode readers? In-Reply-To: <35E9F005.31FC9EC@interserv.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980831100701.00cb1830@pc> At 08:36 PM 8/30/98 -0400, will emerson wrote: >Anyone out there up on Bar Code readers? Picked up a used one a while >back, and I'm wondering about cabling, data output etc. Some old bar-code readers from the late 70s used the Intel 4004 chip, certainly a collectable... - John From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Aug 31 13:25:13 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: WinNT hit-and-run In-Reply-To: <8689@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808311633.LAA22462@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Stable alright, just like a Tiger III Tank: Shells, mines, concrete barriers, etc. will be hard pressed to stop it, but the danged thing won't do 35mph (downhill) . . . At 10:13 AM 8/31/98 -0500, you wrote: > >WinNT is quite stable. I've been running it for years - since 3.0, >I think, under heavy daily software development. Judging from the >reports I hear, I think it's a bit more sensitive to less-than-perfect >motherboards, RAM, or peripherals. I've had perhaps two blue screens >of death, probably due to bad drivers. > >- John > From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 31 11:46:23 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM odd IDE (44 vs 40 pins, 46 vs 44 pins)? In-Reply-To: <199808311508.LAA11478@pechter.dyn.ml.org> from "Bill Pechter" at Aug 31, 98 11:08:11 am Message-ID: <199808311646.MAA22691@user2.infinet.com> > > > > > I'm looking for information on IBM's proprietary IDE format. I have a > > 44-pin drive from a PS/2-30 (I have the CPU, too, but it has a 50Mb RLL > > on a card), and a 2.5" laptop drive with *46* pins plus master/slave, > > not the usual 44. > > > > I'm really trying to use the 2.5" drive (in a CD-32 w/SX-1 expansion, > > FWIW), but it came in an IBM housing to snap into an IBM laptop, with > > an IBM cable... > Watch out the PS/2 30 may be ESDI not IDE. Unlikely. It's an 8086. AFAIK, it's an early XT IDE. One cable - 44 pins. No power cable. > The IBM drive just unscrews from the platic housing and it's just a 2 1/2 > inch IDE drive with the power on the additional pins. I can count. It's not the standard 2.5" laptop connector. Besides, it was a metal housing that was almost impossible to get open. It appears as if you have a different generation of drive. > The standard $5.00 2 1/2 IDE to regular IDE should work, I think... I have one and the number of pins does not match. -ethan From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 31 14:22:11 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech Message-ID: <199808311705.TAA16626@marina.fth.sbs.de> Hi, does anybody know who has right now the rights for the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code? Or more in general - is there any successor for the Commodore Semiconductor divison ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Mon Aug 31 12:21:53 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: IBM odd IDE (44 vs 40 pins, 46 vs 44 pins)? In-Reply-To: <199808311646.MAA22691@user2.infinet.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Aug 31, 98 12:46:23 pm" Message-ID: <199808311721.NAA11655@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > > > > > > > > I'm looking for information on IBM's proprietary IDE format. I have a > > > 44-pin drive from a PS/2-30 (I have the CPU, too, but it has a 50Mb RLL > > > on a card), and a 2.5" laptop drive with *46* pins plus master/slave, > > > not the usual 44. > > > > > > I'm really trying to use the 2.5" drive (in a CD-32 w/SX-1 expansion, > > > FWIW), but it came in an IBM housing to snap into an IBM laptop, with > > > an IBM cable... > > > Watch out the PS/2 30 may be ESDI not IDE. > > Unlikely. It's an 8086. AFAIK, it's an early XT IDE. One cable - 44 pins. > No power cable. The model 30 I dumped had an IBM special one connector unit that I was told was esdi. I just dumped one of these machines. Bill From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 31 14:47:12 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Pascal Micro Engines Message-ID: <199808311730.TAA09545@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>Cross platform development was an easy thing - write one >>application and let it run on PETs, Tandys, CPM/systems, >>of coure on APPLE ][s and even on IBM-PCs - oh, did someone >>say Java ? *grins*. > In theory. In practice, many P-System programs made calls to > platform-specific extensions to the language in question, > linking against a library of a dozen or so routines for doing > non-standard subroutines written in machine code: block > memory moves, disk block reads, etc. I don't think those > were ever standardized between platforms. > You can't take the average clone of Pacman or whatever from an > Apple II P-System and run it on another system unless it was > completely pure - poking video memory ain't pure. At some degree - there have been a lot of Units available on different platforms. And as everywhere in these old days the ctr controll codes had more impact an porting than anything else. In fact I used the p-system several times for cross platform developments in the early 80s. Even for my first app on the IBM-PC - The next few apps where developed with Turbo Pascal on the APPLE ][+ using CP/M and recompiled on the PC. I withstand the IBM for almost two years ... > See my web page for a history of the UCSD P-System. Hmm letmesee... only Pascal ? What about the otherlanguages ? > I'd love to get a Microengine. Ibet there are still some out there. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Mon Aug 31 12:43:10 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: KIM/MOS-Tech Message-ID: I went thru hell trying to find out who has the rights to the Commodore Semiconductor Group parts (looking for replacement 6510s for C64s). You'll never guess who has them... Gateway 2000 Tony -- On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:23:11 Hans Franke wrote: >Hi, > >does anybody know who has right now the rights for >the KIM-1 design and the respective ROM code? > >Or more in general - is there any successor for >the Commodore Semiconductor divison ? > >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 31 12:51:46 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Pascal Micro Engines In-Reply-To: <199808311730.TAA09545@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980831125146.00c6ad10@pc> At 07:48 PM 8/31/98 +1, Hans Franke wrote: > >> See my web page for a history of the UCSD P-System. > >Hmm letmesee... only Pascal ? What about the otherlanguages ? I don't think I have any other languages for my Terak's P-System, and I don't know much about who developed those... Did UCSD develop any beyond Pascal? - John From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 13:21:02 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazine Message-ID: <19980831182102.22995.qmail@hotmail.com> Well, all of the college guys down here are moving and that means lots of trash. I picked up an old magazine, Popular Computnig, from 1983. This issue deals with programming languages, all sorts of comparisons and advice about them. I've never before seen a computer magazine of this age, and I found it quite fascinating. There was an article about 'Why you should learn to program', the depth of which was immense compared to modern magazines. But the letters to the magazine show that people were'nt any smarter back then, just more curious and thoughtful. I laughed when I saw this letter: "I opened up my computer, and found the 6502 processor. Could I get speed gains by replacing it with an 8088 or 8086?" At least they know the numbers. Good thing they went to the trouble of checking. Too bad intel decided to drop numbers and use meaningless names. When did the downward trend in magazines occur, or was it a steady process? Another question: I found a VGA monitor in the trash. It hasn't been dropped and works fine, but the glass is scratched from being dragged on the sidewalk. Is prone to implosion? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 31 14:04:26 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: <19980831182102.22995.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Aug 31, 98 11:21:02 am Message-ID: <199808311904.MAA05012@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/34328c22/attachment.ksh From workapulo at my-dejanews.com Mon Aug 31 14:09:16 1998 From: workapulo at my-dejanews.com (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazines Message-ID: I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was in high school. Tony -- On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:04:26 Seth J. Morabito wrote: >[...] >> When did the downward trend in magazines occur, or was it a steady >> process? > >Old computer magazines are another passion of mine. I a large >bookshelf full of BYTE magazine, from around 1976 to 1993, and >leafing through these magazines is like looking through the layers >of sediment in an archeological search. It's immensely fascinating. > >BYTE started out as a single-signature stapled magazine. The September >1975 issue is 96 pages. These were the days of serious homebrew >systems, and Byte catered to that crowd exclusively. There were articles >about writing assemblers, about microcode, about CPU design, about MMU >architectures, and about CP/M internals. The typical reader was putting >together a home-made or kit-bought S100 machine, and wanted to stay in >touch with their fellow hackers. Those were truly glory days, 1975 to >1980, although I was too young to participate. I was busy playing in >a stream somewhere over summer vacation :) [I guess I'm trying to make >up for lost time by being so interested in classic computers now] > >BYTE stayed about this size, right up through 1980 or so. If you were >around to remember it, there was a HUGE burst in Home Computing mania >right around 1981. Computers were suddenly everyhere, and everyone seemed >to have access to an Apple II or a Sinclair or (later) a Commodore 64. >With the introduction of the IBM PC, computers gained "business" >acceptance, and the wave crested. Anyone remember the 1982 TIME Magazine >"Man of the Year" going to "The Computer"? That raised a few eyebrows. > >It was right around that time that BYTE swelled into a behemoth 400-page >magazine. It was like hefting a book, and the spine was a good 3/4" >thick. Every article had something good in it. There were in-depth >articles about Smalltalk and the coming of Object Oriented Programming. >Serious reviews of new commercial computer products. Buyer's guides. >And still, plenty of technical articles, and source code for programs. > >It wasn't until 1985 or so that BYTE got back down to smaller proportions, >and had fewer articles. They focused more PC clones, the brand-new >Macintosh, business applications; less on hard-core internals. The techie >articles were still there, just in fewer numbers, and the readership >of Byte was pretty mixed, technical and business computer users. >Computer literacy was still not what it is today, so there weren't as >many clueless newbies. There would be plenty of time for that later. > >In my very humble opinion, it was around 1987 or 1988 that computer >magazines started seriously heading downhill. BYTE remained a very good >magazine, right up through 1993, but after that, it was fully devoured by >"Business App-Itis", and became pretty un-interesting. > >These days, the only computer magazine that's anything like what >Byte used to be is "The Computer Journal", published by Dave Baldwin. >Unfortunately, it's quarterly instead of monthly -- there's just not >that much demand for S100 information these days :) > >-Seth >-- >"It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito > You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 31 14:45:04 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Stupid RSX-11M questions Message-ID: <199808311945.MAA05127@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/1e2ac6d3/attachment.ksh From pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org Mon Aug 31 14:31:39 1998 From: pechter at pechter.dyn.ml.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: from Tony Dellett at "Aug 31, 98 12:09:16 pm" Message-ID: <199808311931.PAA11867@pechter.dyn.ml.org> > I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was in high school. > > Tony I've got a number of years worth. Bill From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 31 15:01:09 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: <199808311904.MAA05012@squeep.com> References: <19980831182102.22995.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980831150109.00c61630@pc> At 12:04 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Old computer magazines are another passion of mine. I a large >bookshelf full of BYTE magazine, from around 1976 to 1993, and As had been reported here in May when it happened, Byte is no more, but the post-game commentary has begun. See Tom Halfhill's analysis at , he was an editor there. Love 'im or hate 'im, Pournelle can't stop talking about it or anything else at . I agree with Halfhill's assessment in general, that Byte was perhaps the only general computer magazine as compared to so many other platform-chauvinistic rags. On the other hand, in the last few years, many of my copies of Byte went unread. - John From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 31 15:06:13 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazine References: <19980831182102.22995.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35EB0235.DBA12438@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > Well, all of the college guys down here are moving and that means > lots of trash. I picked up an old magazine, Popular Computnig, from > 1983. This issue deals with programming languages, all sorts of > comparisons and advice about them. I've never before seen a computer > magazine of this age, and I found it quite fascinating. There was an > article about 'Why you should learn to program', the depth of which > was immense compared to modern magazines. But the letters to the > magazine show that people were'nt any smarter back then, just more > curious and thoughtful. I laughed when I saw this letter: > "I opened up my computer, and found the 6502 processor. Could I get > speed gains by replacing it with an 8088 or 8086?" At least they > know the numbers. Good thing they went to the trouble of checking. > Too bad intel decided to drop numbers and use meaningless names. > When did the downward trend in magazines occur, or was it a steady > process? Another question: I found a VGA monitor in the trash. It hasn't > been dropped and works fine, but the glass is scratched from being > dragged on the sidewalk. Is prone to implosion? 1983? By then the magazines had been going downhill for about a year but there were still quite a few good ones. Not like now when the only magazines I don't throw away (almost before reading) are Linux Journal and SysAdmin. Sad to say, but except for the adverts in the magazines, the best computer information available these days is on-line. And there's still a lot of garbage to sift before you find the treasure. -- Ward Griffiths When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Aug 31 15:52:33 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: from "Tony Dellett" at Aug 31, 98 12:09:16 pm Message-ID: <199808312052.NAA30421@saul7.u.washington.edu> > I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was in high school. > > Tony I'm jumping into the discussion because I just got practically a complete set of Micro Cornucopia. (From issue #1 until issue #51 (?) which was well into the MS-DOS days. I don't know when they stopped publishing.) When was your internship? -- Derek From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 31 16:02:52 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:19 2005 Subject: Help on my MicroVAX 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops! I meant to send this to the list also, instead of just to Allison. ======== Allison, Thanks for the response to my cry for help! Below is a listing of the screen display that I get on power up. Most of it seems OK from the gouge that I picked up. But I have annotated a few items with queries??? that I am uncertain of. You suggested that the tape might be MKA7 and suggested trying 0-7 for both. Did you mean MKA(0-7) and MUA(0-7) or b/(0-7)? MUA0 seems to be the only one of those options that it likes at all. Every other option is quickly rejected with an 84 FAIL message. Early indications are that /(1-7) may fail also. By the way, about how long should the boot from tape take, and what are the TK50Z indications that it is 'doing its thing'? I tend to assume that the flashing green LED means that it is reading. - don ======================== KA410-B V2.2 F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4...3_..2_..1?.. ? E 0040 0000.0005 *** DEAD BATTERY *** ? C 0080 0000.4001 ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 *** WHAT IS THIS??? *** \ >>> T 50 KA410-B V2.2 ID 08-00-2B-0C-DF-B1 MONO 0000.0001 ? CLK 0000.0005 NVR 0000.0001 ? DZ 0000.4001 00000001 00000001 00000001 00004001 00000000 00000000 MEM 000E.0001 00E00000 MM 0000.0001 FP 0000.0001 IT 0000.0001 HDC 7710.0001 0004C437 00000000 00000000 *** MY RD54 *** *** TPC 0202.0001 FFFFFF03 01000001 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 FFFFFF05 *** ^ WHAT ARE EACH OF THESE? ^ *** SYS 0000.0001 8PLN 0000.0001 V1.2 ?? NI 0000.7004 V1.3 >>> T 51 .... ? >>> MUA0 >>> T 52 00000000 ? >>> MUA0 84 FAIL *** OOPS! IS THIS BAD? *** >>> T 52 00000000 ? >>> . 84 FAIL *** DITTO? *** >>> T 53 2 ? >>> >>> T 54 ?17 ILL CMD *** NO KEYBOARD??? *** >>> From rax at warbaby.com Mon Aug 31 17:30:20 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: LCD Panels Message-ID: I seem to recall that someone was looking for a source for cheap LCD panels a while back (Allison?). Just got the current Alltronics catalog and they've got 640 X 480 backlit panels (Sharp LM64P80) for $39.95, and non-backlit for $9.95. If anyone's interested in Atari stuff, they've also got NOS Atari 1020 color printers for $14.95, and 2600 trackballs for $9.95. Alltronics address is 2300 Zanker Rd., San Jose, CA 95131, 408.943.9773 R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 16:21:33 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old magazines Message-ID: <19980831212134.3497.qmail@hotmail.com> Who _is_ Jerry Pournelle? > >At 12:04 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >>Old computer magazines are another passion of mine. I a large >>bookshelf full of BYTE magazine, from around 1976 to 1993, and > >As had been reported here in May when it happened, Byte is no more, >but the post-game commentary has begun. See Tom Halfhill's >analysis at , >he was an editor there. Love 'im or hate 'im, Pournelle can't >stop talking about it or anything else at >. > >I agree with Halfhill's assessment in general, that Byte was >perhaps the only general computer magazine as compared to so many >other platform-chauvinistic rags. On the other hand, in the last >few years, many of my copies of Byte went unread. > >- John > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 31 14:06:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: Sinclair ZX-80 first Sinclair kit? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 30, 98 08:15:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/d8eed167/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 31 14:13:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Hard drives (was:Cable needed) In-Reply-To: <199808311417.KAA06387@gate.usaor.net> from "Jason Willgruber" at Aug 31, 98 10:12:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/f9572365/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 31 17:30:42 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old magazines References: <19980831212134.3497.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35EB2411.2B06C769@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > Who _is_ Jerry Pournelle? Columnist in Byte, "The User's Column", later renamed "Computing at Chaos Manor". An old friend, enemy and sparring partner of mine at meetings of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society. A good science fiction writer and half of the best science fiction writing team anywhere with Larry Niven. We argue about computers, politics (he think governments deserve to exist, I don't) and space development -- well, that last we don't argue with each other, we debate strategy, that causes 90% of our political arguments. You'll find him as a character in several science fiction novels he cowrote with Larry Niven as Wade Curtis. I especially recommend _Footfall_ (with Niven - Niven's in the book as Nat Reynolds) and _Fallen Angels_ (with Niven and Michael Flynn, awarded the Prometheus Award for libertarian fiction, though only Flynn among the three authors will admit to libertarianism). Pournelle's a good writer, a good man, and an asshole. I can deal with assholes, being one myself. Some people say he sold his soul to get free hardware and software. Well, souls are a glut on the market these days and most of the hardware (90% plus of the software) delivered to his house was unsolicited. Before I came east, I helped with some of the LASFS garage sales to dispose of the crap. > > > >At 12:04 PM 8/31/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> > >>Old computer magazines are another passion of mine. I a large > >>bookshelf full of BYTE magazine, from around 1976 to 1993, and > > > >As had been reported here in May when it happened, Byte is no more, > >but the post-game commentary has begun. See Tom Halfhill's > >analysis at , > >he was an editor there. Love 'im or hate 'im, Pournelle can't > >stop talking about it or anything else at > >. > > > >I agree with Halfhill's assessment in general, that Byte was > >perhaps the only general computer magazine as compared to so many > >other platform-chauvinistic rags. On the other hand, in the last > >few years, many of my copies of Byte went unread. > > > >- John > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Ward Griffiths When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright From manney at lrbcg.com Mon Aug 31 11:43:32 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <01bdd4fe$7dba8780$1e28a2ce@manney> I have several single-speed Hitachi units. manney@lrbcg.com >>>Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes pictured >>>with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external >>>drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. >> > From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Aug 31 18:10:49 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: laptop batteries/power adapters Message-ID: <199808312310.QAA09017@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Having failed to find a 22VDC adapter for my Outbound, I'm trying to look into alternatives. The computer uses an ordinairy camcorder battery - 12 Volts, 2.0Ah. What I'd like to do is hook a power adapter directly to the battery terminals inside the unit. How realistic is this idea? I'm assuming I'd need a 12VDC power adapter, but what about amperage? Thanks. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 31 18:26:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: Back! I'm back... (now WinNT hit-and-run) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980831101358.00cb7490@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > WinNT is quite stable. I've been running it for years - since 3.0, > I think, under heavy daily software development. Judging from the > reports I hear, I think it's a bit more sensitive to less-than-perfect > motherboards, RAM, or peripherals. I've had perhaps two blue screens > of death, probably due to bad drivers. Use Linux instead. Its far less picky about its hardware (and a whole lot more stable too, not to mention just a better OS). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 31 18:32:41 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: LCD Panels Message-ID: <199808312332.AA03849@world.std.com> I seem to recall that someone was looking for a source for cheap LCD pan < a while back (Allison?). Just got the current Alltronics catalog and < they've got 640 X 480 backlit panels (Sharp LM64P80) for $39.95, and < non-backlit for $9.95. Both sound good but whats the drive needs? I already have a $9.95 special but the logic to drive it would be odious and the interface was apprently for a custom chip. Allison From kroma at worldnet.att.net Mon Aug 31 18:45:15 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: Pascal Micro Engines Message-ID: <007401bdd539$68180a20$a786440c@kroma-i> >Hmm letmesee... only Pascal ? >What about the otherlanguages ? > Apple's FORTRAN for the // uses p-code. -- Kirk From spc at armigeron.com Mon Aug 31 17:29:35 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: <35EB2411.2B06C769@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 31, 98 06:30:42 pm Message-ID: <199808312229.SAA26864@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Ward Donald Griffiths III once stated: > > Max Eskin wrote: > > > > Who _is_ Jerry Pournelle? > > Columnist in Byte, "The User's Column", later renamed "Computing > at Chaos Manor". And the only person to ever be kicked off the ARPANET. -spc (Still like reading him though ... ) From mwakoff at njcpa.com Mon Aug 31 19:42:16 1998 From: mwakoff at njcpa.com (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers Message-ID: <000701bdd541$5ff193e0$1300a8c0@ibmp> We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them? Marvin J. Wakoff Wakoff, Andriulli & Co. mwakoff@njcpa.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980831/5c9b14c4/attachment.html From ecloud at goodnet.com Mon Aug 31 19:59:55 1998 From: ecloud at goodnet.com (Shawn Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers In-Reply-To: <000701bdd541$5ff193e0$1300a8c0@ibmp> from "Marvin" at Aug 31, 98 08:42:16 pm Message-ID: <199809010059.RAA06968@goodnet.com> > We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use = > them? Sure, but I personally don't want to pay shipping (others might...) where are you located? If I can pick them up I'd be interested. -- _______ KB7PWD @ KC7Y.AZ.US.NOAM ecloud@goodnet.com (_ | |_) Shawn T. Rutledge on the web: http://www.goodnet.com/~ecloud __) | | \__________________________________________________________________ * Star Trek * knowledge base * 808 State * quantize the universe * Linux * From roblwill at usaor.net Mon Aug 31 19:47:32 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom Message-ID: <199809010057.UAA10932@gate.usaor.net> I've already found one. Thanks anyway, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: PG Manney > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: WTB: OLD Cd-Rom > Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 12:43 PM > > I have several single-speed Hitachi units. > manney@lrbcg.com > > >>>Hello. I'm looking for one of the OLD CD-Rom's that are sometimes > pictured > >>>with old IBM's in TAB books. They are the old, big (well, wide) external > >>>drives that were in a case about 12-18" wide, and about 3-4" high. > >> > > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:02:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers Message-ID: <19980901010211.4150.qmail@hotmail.com> If, according to your domain name, you're in NJ, there isn't anyone terribly close to you over here. The closest would be Long Island. Actually, we don't consider 486 to be classic, but if they have to be rescued I'm sure someone can do it. What are the actual specs? Have you considered donating them to a school or church? >We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use = >them? >Marvin J. Wakoff >Wakoff, Andriulli & Co. >mwakoff@njcpa.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon Aug 31 20:32:01 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: Deja vu Message-ID: <19980831190621.0ae61d58.in@mail.pressstart.com> "Max Eskin" said: >Give me a break! Most of my generation disowned every thing their parents stood for, and they're paying the price. They are having to reinvent the wheel every day. It's like the 80's were a small version of the Dark Ages. Well I'll quit before I really get wound up. I'll just say thank you for making my point. Isn't it sad to think that after landing 12 men on the moon and returning them safely, we sink to the point where we say: >"Rockets explode all of the time." > Plus, I would guess some of the parts they are using are old. >I have the feeling cracked seals could once again be the >problem." Could it be because they don't know how to built a rocket today? >Also, rockets don't rely on computer controls. These are 20-year >old technology. It's unlikely >they have anything more than a bunch of servos like in a model >car. I was talking about the computers used to design the rockets. But,I do think you are forgetting about the P5 based computer running Windows 98 used to monitor the fuel pressure in the fuel pump. I'll bet the rocket "crashed" before it blew up. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery Sunnyvale,CA http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum "This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; Yes,and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely lights and wires in a box." - Micro68 computer User's Manual,EPA Inc. 1976 ========================================= From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 31 20:31:48 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Tony Dellett wrote: > I'd be very interested to know if you have copys of an old magazine > called "Micro Cornucopia". I did a summer internship there when I was in > high school. I have a whole run of this magazine. Not complete but a pretty sizeable collection. (Note: please trim your posts. You made a two line reply on a 40 line quoted post). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 31 20:49:27 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers In-Reply-To: <000701bdd541$5ff193e0$1300a8c0@ibmp> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Marvin wrote: > We have some old 486 computers that we don't use anymore. Can you use them? > Marvin J. Wakoff > Wakoff, Andriulli & Co. > mwakoff@njcpa.com Marvin, this came out as an unviewable HTML and PLAIN text document on my end that PINE's external viewer couldn't handle. When I replied it came up however (as you can see). A couple other people subscribed always have this problem of posting their messages in HTML. I think you guys should be able to configure your mail program to send only unencoded plain text. This is a peeve of mine. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/25/98] From rax at warbaby.com Mon Aug 31 22:16:52 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: LCD Panels In-Reply-To: <199808312332.AA03849@world.std.com> Message-ID: >I seem to recall that someone was looking for a source for cheap LCD pan >< a while back (Allison?). Just got the current Alltronics catalog and >< they've got 640 X 480 backlit panels (Sharp LM64P80) for $39.95, and >< non-backlit for $9.95. > >Both sound good but whats the drive needs? I already have a $9.95 special >but the logic to drive it would be odious and the interface was apprently >for a custom chip. > Beats me - I just noticed the item in the catalog and it jarred a vague recollection of the earlier discussion. I have to call them tomorrow to order some stuff and I'll ask them about it. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Mon Aug 31 21:20:17 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: FW: VAXstation 3100 Model 38 and Peripherals References: <01bdd0f9$9b88a660$718161a7@rmirwin2> Message-ID: <35EB59E1.D0C297E8@my-dejanews.com> Those who would like to experiment with a VAXStation 3100 or two should get in contact with this fellow directly. Thanks in advance. -=-=- -=-=- From: "Rich Irwin" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: VAXstation 3100 Model 38 and Peripherals Date: 31 Aug 1998 19:24:23 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 33 Message-ID: <01bdd0f9$9b88a660$718161a7@rmirwin2> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.27.72.14 X-Trace: 904591463 OCZ7E7JIA48E D11BC usenet87.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.fiber.net!news-stk-2.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail I have two VAXstation 3100 Model 38's and a variety of peripherals, all in working condition for the right price. You can pick from the list and make one good system if you like, or make an offer for the whole thing. Here's my inventory (I'm working from memory but can provide exact p/n's upon request!) 2-3100 M38 (I'm not using the built in video so can't verify on-board video) 2-VT-320 Monitors and keyboards 2-RZ-23L disk (126MB works for most any VMS) 1-Quantum Lightning (540MB, works as boot for VMS>6 or so) 1-DEC RZ25L (1GB works as boot for VMS 5.4 and greater or so) 1-DEC (Sony) 4/8 GB tape unit (just purchased. Works for VMS 5.4 and greater) 1-Tape TK type tape drive (untested) 1-Floppy drive (untested) 1-Toshiba 4x CDROM (works with VMS 5.4 and greater) 1-Spare SCSI interface and device plane Misc cables, etc. As far as VMS and media, one can join DECUS and for about $40 get VMS on CDROM. ;>) You should join anyway! This is the good stuff! I'm about to finish a project with the hardware, so it can be yours promptly! Best Offer for each system or the whole bundle! Thanks and remove the zzz's! Rich rmzzzirwin2@auzzzg.com From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 31 23:24:50 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old magazines In-Reply-To: "D. Peschel"'s message of Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:52:33 -0700 (PDT) References: <199808312052.NAA30421@saul7.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199809010424.VAA18043@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "D. Peschel" wrote: > I'm jumping into the discussion because I just got practically a complete set > of Micro Cornucopia. (From issue #1 until issue #51 (?) which was well into > the MS-DOS days. I don't know when they stopped publishing.) I think the last issue was #53, May 1990. And I hope David Thompson is doing well these days, he certainly brought a lot of interesting reading material my way back then. (Looking for: #8, #10, #11, #12, #20) -Frank McConnell From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 31 23:48:06 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Marvin, this came out as an unviewable HTML and PLAIN text document on my > end that PINE's external viewer couldn't handle. When I replied it came > up however (as you can see). A couple other people subscribed always have > this problem of posting their messages in HTML. I think you guys should > be able to configure your mail program to send only unencoded plain text. > This is a peeve of mine. Sam, I also use PINE, but mine came out with something like this: From mwakoff at njcpa.com Mon Aug 31 19:42:16 1998 From: mwakoff at njcpa.com (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:20 2005 Subject: old computers Message-ID: [Part 1 OK 5 lines Latin 1 text] [Part 2 SHOWN 17 lines Latin 1 text] Use V command to ... [The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set] [Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set] [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly] *** snip *** In my case, selecting the 5 lines after using V provided straight ASCII text. I agree, however, that plain ASCII is much to be preferred! - don From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 31 16:05:35 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005 Subject: VCF mentioned in UK newspaper Message-ID: <35EB101F.C4F7A7CE@joules.enterprise-plc.com> There was write up of the VCF in todays Guardian, it included a picture of an Altair and a wooden Apple, along with an account of Ray Holt's talk. It also says the it was organised by "...Sam Ismail, a goateed, hyperactive young programmer who started his own collection of 200 machines 11 years ago...". Is this a fair description Sam? ;-) Regards Pete PS Congratulations, Sam, on what seems to have been a very sucessful event. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 31 19:31:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:22 2005 Subject: laptop batteries/power adapters In-Reply-To: <199808312310.QAA09017@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 31, 98 04:10:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980901/cdc4fc28/attachment.ksh