From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 1 00:05:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:38 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <199808010249.TAA07335@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that > BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the > San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > > Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon? This is true. I heard this first hand from a contractor that I had hired to do some programming a couple years back. He wrote some software to control the signs in the BART stations. He told me a little bit about it, and I was surprised to learn they had such old beasts gainfully employed. Unfortunately, said guy turned out to be a total fricken flake/scam artist and I wouldn't call him if he was giving away a PDP/8i. So I wouldn't want to contact him to find out. However, if you want to talk to him, and you promise NOT TO MENTION THAT I REFERRED YOU, because I want to have absolutely nothing to do with this cretin ever again, you can go to his web page at http://www.tlcone.com (or .net). From there I would imagine you can e-mail him. His name is Emile Carter. He's at least personable, so he may want to talk to you about it if he's got the time, and perhaps refer you to someone at BART, but I wouldn't be surprised if he burned those bridges as well. Anyway, its a possible lead. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Aug 1 00:11:16 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody References: Message-ID: <35C2A374.89C28B5F@halcyon.com> I remember another one of these that was even better (it sounded more authentically Pournelle, a little less far-fetched, and got the parody just right. It was posted (Tim Shoppa?) to alt.folklore.computers? Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > I just had to pass this on to the list. > > http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:07:23 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:40 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <9807311319.AA24934@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <35C2CCBB.FDD5F0B4@cnct.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > You'd be hard pressed to beat the price and still have it look good. > > I forget if they were $79 or $89, I got some dirty looks by climbing > > on on that was at floor level to see how stiff they were. They are. > > Heck, at the rated 1500 lbs/shelf, each $80 unit can support 5 Volkswagons... Mmmm, gotta take those cars to a place that can crush them to size, otherwise they won't fit. On the other hand, I can't think of any batch of computers that can be put on such a shelf that would weigh that much -- hell, it's hard to reach that density with 1 -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Aug 1 03:23:17 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <01bdbd25$a27bbda0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Well.... I suppose it's one form of computer you might not think of collecting... anyone collect bosch d and l jet-tronic fuel injector "computers"? They were used, among other places, in 1970s VWs to improve emissions and power. Hah! how's THAT for a tie back to topic? :) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: Re: Near disaster and questions on finds >Exxxactly! I guess now we can all get back to computer topics, like how to install >a terminal in a VW beetle or something > >Jim wrote: > >> Okay at the risk of serious off topic... the schwimwagon was built for service >> in World War Two by VW. It had snorkels on the exhaust and on the air intake >> for both the carb and the fan (air cooled engine) and a propeller shaft >> off the main pully and through the bumper. >> -- >> Jim Strickland >> jim@calico.litterbox.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:27:54 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: Message-ID: <35C2D18A.B7A3C967@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > Ehh. You learn to live with them. They're not so bad. Some can actually > be fun if you can maintain your senses when one starts to hit. I try to > perform odd experiments like lying on the floorto feel the waves and > stuff. Haven't been in a real one since the Landers quake in '93 or so. > > As Roger said, I'd rather have a really horrible earthquake every so many > decades than a tornado or hurricane like clockwork every year. That's it. I'd rather be back home in California where I have a stastically average chance of having to dig out rubble from an earthquake something less than once per human lifespan than here in Jersey where even in a good winter I'll have to shovel out the damned snow at least once -- but the last several years are a stastical anomaly and I'd like to be gone before things get back to normal. I'd love to move home to California, but not until the capital of the Republic is returned to San Jose. In the meantime, as soon as my father-in-law (I love him dearly but his health keeps him [and me] stuck in Jersey) is in the ground, Wyoming (with snow that makes a _bad_ winter in Jersey seem like a series of flurries) is my destination. No inconsistency, there are disasters that make earthquakes and blizzards trivial, and I'd like to get out of the way, if possible. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Aug 1 03:28:21 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:41 2005 Subject: Wierd Stuff web site? Message-ID: <199808010828.BAA11769@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 05:57 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Bruce wrote: > > Check my web page under http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin/calswap.html. I have >Weird Stuff (and most of the other Bay Area stores) listed. > >Thanks for this list and reviews. I just noticed all the places I wrote down have a 4xx street address, for example Excess Soln's in San Jose. More incentive to visit the bay area. -Dave From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Aug 1 03:29:51 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <01bdbd26$8d1df6c0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Don't know about that, but when I worked in Silicon Valley for a well known microprocessor manufacturer, one of our pieces of state of the art lithography equipment was controlled by micro pdp-11s. We had to put them on their own ethernet segment because the regular segments were so busy the PDP ethernet cards would interupt the machines to death. :) -----Original Message----- From: Seth J. Morabito To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 8:47 PM Subject: BART and PDP8's? >Hey folks, > >A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that >BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the >San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > >Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring >some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon? > >-Seth >-- >"It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito > You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com > From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 03:43:25 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds References: <19980731180404.26543.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35C2D52D.ED8EBF2D@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > The experience I've had was in the apartment where I live, where it > is best to make stuff as opposed to buying it because it is difficult > to fit storebought things as efficiently. And it probably looks > better. Plywood is probably not the best shelving material; I don't > know much about this stuff, but wouldn't solid wood be stronger? Plywood outlasts damned near anything else in a strong quake, as it is reasonably flexible and has no specific direction to break. Worse is solid lumber, worse twice is prestwood (which will break in any convenient [to the quake] direction). But adequately thick plywood isn't cheap and it really sucks _except_ for equipment rack sized shelving -- bookshelves are a whole nother concept, though I have far more of them than shelves for computer gear. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 1 13:55:41 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II Message-ID: Ok, Sorry about the delay, I got busy with work and didn't get around to working on the Sun unti tonight :) I cleaned the heads with some isopropyl alcohol tonight, but to no avail, I still get the dreaded 96A0 error, I'm beginning to suspect the tapes, however it doesn't matter what tape I put in, it gives exactly the same error, so unless all 4 SunOS tapes have had it, it may be the drive. Further to the error codes, a tape with write protect off gives 86A0 error :) Thanks Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 1 04:10:16 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Looking for S-100 Systems References: <199807311749.NAA11437@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35C2DB78.FC758A68@cnct.com> Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > Aw crud! I didn't mean to send this to the list :) Don't fash yersel'. Yes, it does take practice to use a mailing list well. I tend to screw up (regularly) on another list where the default is to reply to the sender instead of the list. (The LIBFUT list is low volume, and when you're racing through 500 messages in the attempt to actually get _something_ like a night's sleep, it's real easy to miss what's in the "To:" line). Actually, if more lists set Sender as the default rather than Group as the recipient of any reply, more thought might be given to hitting the send button in bad moods -- I know it would help with me. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 1 15:04:47 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. Message-ID: On another point, I was lent a Wangtek 5099EN11 drive, which seems to have a QIC-36 interface (and the Sun won't talk to it), is there anyway of getting this drive to emulate a QIC-02 interface? (jumper?) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 07:53:02 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds Message-ID: <002901bdbd4e$7b070bc0$c775fea9@mainoffice> I use the industrial "pallet racking" available from Home Depot. I think that they cost me around $50-60 per set (4 shelves), but they have a claimed capacity of 1500lbs/shelf. The shelf material is MDF (medium-density fiberboard), and is very strong. I feel very secure that these shelves would be standing long after I'm gone. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 07:55:11 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: MOS Tech. KIM-1 Manual Message-ID: <002a01bdbd4e$7be13f20$c775fea9@mainoffice> Does anyone have a copy of the "MOS Technology KIM-1 Manual" (the instruction manual that came with the KIM-1) that they would be willing to copy for me? I'd be more than willing to reimburse for copying costs. Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sat Aug 1 08:40:37 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <008301bdbc32$84922980$db173ccb@mrmac> from "desieh" at Jul 31, 98 01:22:34 pm Message-ID: <199808011340.JAA00427@shell.monmouth.com> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17 > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > >< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that > >< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the > >< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. > >< > >< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > >< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime soon > > > >THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not > >likely in the near future from what I've heard. > > > >Allison > > > > Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are still controlled > by pdp 11/43s..... > > *Desie* > > > What's an 11/43... there were 11/40, 11/45, 11/53, 11/34's -- but no 11/43's. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 08:25:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Attention Collectors . . . In-Reply-To: <003101bdbc16$bef87be0$92265da6@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801082546.4e974ed4@intellistar.net> At 06:04 PM 7/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >>What is a multispeed anyway? Is it a turbo XT? How much does it >>weigh? >> It uses a NEC V-30 CPU. 8 Mhz I think. Weighs about 8 lbs. BTW I found a HD model at trift store yesterday too. They threw it in for free with another computer that I bought. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 08:51:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? In-Reply-To: References: <199807310253.WAA00392@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801085125.4e9736ba@intellistar.net> At 11:08 PM 7/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Or was some mistake made at the factory (they ran >> out of V20 chips?) and an Intel chip was put in this one? Does anyone else >> have a 1400 with an Intel 8088? It this computer possibly worth more than >> the one with the V20 (I doubt it)? > >Part substitutions like this are very common, especially with very similar >parts like the 8088 and V20. Sometimes manufacturers run into problems >getting the chips they need, and often have to take far more drastic >measures, like coming up with kludge boards, piggybacking parts, hacking >up the traces, etc., just because vendor A is saying "12 weeks" and >customer is saying "next week", all for a $4.00 part. Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacements for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is also faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powered laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TRS may have had to switch back to 8088s. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 1 09:39:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Near disaster and questions on finds In-Reply-To: <01bdbd25$a27bbda0$8371eecd@Molly.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980801093908.2f272474@intellistar.net> At 02:23 AM 8/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >Well.... I suppose it's one form of computer you might >not think of collecting... anyone collect bosch d and l >jet-tronic fuel injector "computers"? They were used, among other places, >in 1970s VWs to improve emissions and power. Hah! how's THAT for a tie >back to topic? :) I never collected them but I used to have one in a 1970 VW. They had a poor reputation (mainly due to the ham-fisted mechanics) but they worked very well if you took care or them and made sure all the connections were clean and tight. I had it for 5 years and never had a trouble with it but I never let a mechanic touch it! I did have the manual for the system and I probably still have it somewhere. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 1 10:03:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <199808011503.AA03933@world.std.com> < On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: < < > A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet tha < > BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of th < > San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems < > < > Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring < > some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system sometime so Below is the header for a program to do several things. A contact, it make be severely dated and verification. This was gotten off one of the PDP-8 archive sites, it was over a years ago so I've forgotton which one though I know most are still there. below the program header is further information on PDP-8s from PDP8-lovers list. Allison /***********************************************************************/ /* */ /* Program: PAL (BART version) */ /* File: pal.c */ /* Author: Gary A. Messenbrink */ /* */ /* Purpose: A 2 pass PDP-8 pal-like assembler. */ /* */ /* PAL(1) */ /* */ /* NAME */ /* pal - a PDP/8 pal-like assembler. */ /* */ /* SYNOPSIS: */ /* pal [ -d -l -p -r -x ] inputfile */ /* */ /* DESCRIPTION You can get information about the pdp8-lovers mailing list by sending an email message to pdp8-lovers-info@zach1.tiac.net or by sending email to pdp8-lovers-request@zach1.tiac.net with just the word "info" in the body. You can get the most recent version of the PDP-8 FAQ from: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-8/docs http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/dec-faq/top.html http://www.smartpages.com/bngfaqs/alt/sys/pdp8/top.html http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/dec-faq/.html From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 1 11:01:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Another TK50z Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13376334712.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [2.9BSD] It works fine - I play Rogue with it. Make sure to use 7E1... ------- From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sat Aug 1 11:19:19 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: FW: FS Mv2 parts In-Reply-To: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> References: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> Message-ID: <35c43fe2.316851969@smtp.wa.jps.net> Found on Usenet. If you want anything on the list, get in touch with the fellow directly. -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT, in comp.sys.dec.micro you wrote: >>From: mrussel1@twcny.rr.com (MikeR) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro >>Subject: FS Mv2 parts >>Message-ID: <35c25061.1888220@news-server> >>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 >>Lines: 9 >>Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:18:50 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: d185cee18.twcny.rr.com >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:18:50 EDT >>Organization: TWC Road Runner >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.92.226.83!newse1.twcny.rr.com!not-for-mail >> >> >>1-Tk50 controler >>1-8 line comms card >>1-RQDX3 controler >>1-KA630 cpu card >>2-4meg memory cards >> >>Make offer on part or all cards listed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 1 11:19:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Aug 1998, Karl Maftoum wrote: > Sorry about the delay, I got busy with work and didn't get around to > working on the Sun unti tonight :) Don't let it happen again. These classic computing devices need to be fixed as quickly as possible and any delays could cause further irreparable harm, not to mention the effects on the space-time contiuum. ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 1 11:27:17 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <199808011627.AA09864@world.std.com> < Also don't forget that NEC was pushing the V20s as cheap replacement < for the Intel 8088s. So TRS may have switched to the V20s. The V20 is al < faster and uses less power than the 8088. Big factors in a battery powe < laptop. Later Intel sued NEC and blocked the sale of V20 and V30s so TR < may have had to switch back to 8088s. Intel sued and attempted to block. They would loose and V20 deliveries were never interrutped to sales to new design ins were slowed. The original V20 was Nmos like the 8088, though lower power. The cmos parts were later. Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 1 15:50:05 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 Message-ID: <000301bdbd8e$0f0f2b60$c775fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Another crazy project... While working on my old-DOS decompilation project, I've found that it would be handy to have some sort of ICE hardware/software to watch the boot-up sequence, examine specific registers, test code fragments, etc., without crashing my PeeCee. I've been using Debug and testing code fragments to watch changes in the registers. Can anyone point me to a GNU/shareware software-based ICE program, much like NuMega's Soft-ICE Windows, that can do this for DOS? Is it even possible to use a software-based ICE in this instance (because it's before DOS boots). How about this...how about a virtual PC running under OS/2 or Windows NT? It would have to be re-bootable (without crashing the host operating system) and support hot-key break-to-debugger. Sort of like a cross between the vMac Macintosh emulator and WDEB386 (the Windows Kernel debugger). It would be odd to emulate an 8088 on a Pentium 233MMX...hmmm...sounds like a project. Any thoughts??? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW6 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Aug 1 16:09:17 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Leave Message-ID: <19980801210917.17992.qmail@hotmail.com> I am unsubscribing for about three weeks while I go away. I don't want to bounce messages all over the place ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 13:58:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Sun-1 Tape Drive Part II In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 1, 98 06:55:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 891 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980801/d55bf3b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 1 14:22:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 1, 98 08:04:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2471 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980801/60c473b5/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Sat Aug 1 19:38:52 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: Message-ID: <35C3B51C.F0DB307B@interserv.com> > > Is there a Classic Telephony list? This thing seems to have been > constructed in the 50s. > One place to try for answers is the discussion group comp.dcom.telecom Will From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sat Aug 1 19:52:07 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: FW: RT11 Ver. 4 manuals wanted In-Reply-To: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> References: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> Message-ID: <35c3b80d.347614483@smtp.wa.jps.net> If anyone can help this guy out, please respond to him directly. Thanks. -=-=- -=-=- On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11 >>From: Dann Lunsford >>Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 15:23:13 -0700 >>Subject: RT-11 V4 Manual Set >>Message-ID: <35c39c52$1$qnaa$mr2ice@news.calweb.com> >>X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.47 b47 >>NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bigphred.greycat.com >>X-Trace: 1 Aug 1998 15:53:10 +0700, bigphred.greycat.com >>Organization: "CalWeb Internet Services Inc. Your affordable ISP." >>Lines: 25 >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.calweb.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!calwebnntp!calwebnnrp!bigphred.greycat.com >>Xref: blushng.jps.net alt.sys.pdp11:290 vmsnet.pdp-11:359 >> >>I've reached about as far as I can with my little 11/23+ system, and I >>need help. Does anyone have a *complete* doc set for RT-11 V. 4 that >>they don't need or are thinking of throwing out? Or know someone who >>has? I would like to give it a good home, where it could feel useful >>again. All I have is fragmentary (very!) HT-11 stuff, and a couple of >>version 3 manuals. I've figured out some things by reading the source, >>and just trying things based on what the V3 stuff says (Managed to >>sysgen a new system that way), as well as excavating long buried >>memories, but that takes way too long, and is fraught with peril :-). >>Would Mentec still have the doc for V4 for sale (I know, call 'em. It's >>Saturday here, can't call till Monday.)? Somehow, I doubt it. >> >>Anyway, I'm willing to pay a reasonable price and (of course) shipping. >>If you have a set, let me know, please? Email preferred; don't wish to >>spam the froup. >> >>TIA. >> >>Dann L. >>-- >>Dann Lunsford * The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil * >>dann@greycat.com * is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero * >>"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad >>"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 1 20:43:01 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: Need info: Data I/O Tape Perforator Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980801184301.008d0100@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings all; Looking for some information on a new find. A Data I/O Tape Perforator. It's an 8 level, desktop paper tape punch with LED data display (one LED for each channel), and apparently a parallel interface of some type, altho the connector looks somewhat similar to an IEEE-488 connector. However looking at the logic board in the thing pretty much rules out a '488 interface. (not nearly enuf smarts on the board) So... I'm seeking some info on this thing, most specifically with regard to the interface. And before you ask, there is no 'model' number shown on the unit. The ID plate on the back just says "tape perforator". Looked at the Data I/O web site, and found nothing (big surprise... not!) So before I break down and call them to find that no one has any clue as to what I'm asking (sarcasm flag) about, I figured I'd try here. Any help? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 10:37:10 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:42 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Most modern drives are 90 ips. The Sidewinder comes in both versions. > There are a couple of quick ways of telling which one you have : > 1) Look at the board on the bottom of the drive itself. There's a 3 pin > header with a jumper link. It's marked 30 and 90. The meaning is obvious The drive is jumpered 90 ips. > 2) At the back of the lower board in the controller there's a link marked > '90' with a 14 pin chip that may be missing alongside it. 90 ips > controllers have the link, but the chip is not fitted. 30 ips controllers > have the link, and the chip isn't fitted (The chip is a 74LS74, wired as > a /3 counter. It divides a master clock by 3 to get the 30ips write > clock. On 90 ips drives, the chip is not fitted, and the link connects > the write clock line to the master clock). Ok, the link is fitted, and the chip immediatly to the left of the link is fitted, but is a 74LS01, the Chip just below that is NOT fitted. > If you've got a 90 ips controller, plug in the Wangtek drive and see what > happens. If not, then you'll have to start fixing the sidewinder properly. "Drive not responding" -- Would the fact that I am using an external supply have any affect here? > BTW, is the drive roller (on top of the motor spindle) in good condition? > If it's decayed (and they often do), and you've cleaned off the 'gunge', > then it'll now be too small, and the tape speed with be wrong. Worth > checking. The roller is pretty much decayed, Would any QIC-02 drive plugged in here work? Cheers karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 10:50:03 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: Hey Tony! I readjusted the bus jumpers again, and checked all connections..... > b ar() Boot: ar(0,0,0) Boot: ar(0,0,3) then it booted! Thanks, I'll tell you how I progress with SunOS installation! Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 2 01:36:09 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980801233609.00e76db0@mail.wa.jps.net> At 01:15 01-08-98 +0000, you wrote: > A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been unable to >find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. > It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got an FCC >ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time Ah. I recognize it. That's an SC400 QIC-02 controller. It should be able to support just about any QIC-02 drive (not limited to those made by Archive). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Sun Aug 2 01:38:28 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: FW: DEC 3100/m38 FS: In-Reply-To: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> References: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> Message-ID: <35c40921.368370298@smtp.wa.jps.net> OK... if you want a -really- basic 3100/M38, get in contact with this guy. I think he may be disappointed when he finds out what the boxes are worth in the real world. -=-=- -=-=- On 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: meozzy@aol.com (MeOzzy) >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: DEC 3100/m38 FS: >>Lines: 11 >>Message-ID: <1998080203490500.XAA12383@ladder01.news.aol.com> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com >>X-Admin: news@aol.com >>Date: 2 Aug 1998 03:49:05 GMT >>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.14.7.19!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >>FS: Dec 3100/M38 No hard, keyboards or mouse, >> >>MAKE OFFER >> >>QTY : 5 >> >> >>Richard >> >>Email only!!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:00:53 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 1, 98 01:15:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1485 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/249d19ee/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:12:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: More tape drive stuff.. In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 03:37:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/ece3b8cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:13:45 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 03:50:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/7ac4e5d6/attachment.ksh From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 2 17:38:59 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Excellent!. Which drive is this ? the Wangtek, I assume, not the > sidewinder. The Sidewinder's controller must be good, therefore. The Wangtek :) > OK, now you need to fix the Sidewinder. I think we can discount an electronic > problem for the moment. Time to repair that drive roller, I guess... Ok, what diameter is it supposed to be? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 08:30:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Karl Maftoum" at Aug 2, 98 10:38:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/144ecf40/attachment.ksh From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 2 09:16:42 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? In-Reply-To: <199808011340.JAA00427@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000001bdbe20$2c652920$e5173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bill/Carolyn > Pechter > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 1998 11:41 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allison J Parent > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > Date: Saturday, 1 August 1998 13:17 > > Subject: Re: BART and PDP8's? > > > > > > > > > >< A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on > Usenet that > > >< BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around > some of the > > >< San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by > pdp8/e systems. > > >< > > >< Can anyone lend any credibility to this rumor? Any chance of scoring > > >< some PDP8 equipment if they decide to upgrade their system > sometime soon > > > > > >THey are real and used to control signs and a few other things. Not > > >likely in the near future from what I've heard. > > > > > >Allison > > > > > > > Down here in Tasmania, Australia all the traffic lights are > still controlled > > by pdp 11/43s..... > > > > *Desie* > > > > > > > > > What's an 11/43... there were 11/40, 11/45, 11/53, 11/34's -- but > no 11/43's. > > Bill > > +----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------+ > | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | > pechter@shell.monmouth.com | > | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in | > | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > | > +----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------+ > Sorry my mistake, i should read me emails before hitting that send button... i meant 11/45:) *Desie* From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 2 10:05:09 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: PS/2 Items FS Message-ID: <35C48024.4894099C@bbtel.com> I have for sale (or trade in some cases) the following items which may be of interest to those looking for a second machine, a utility machine, or just something cheap to tinker with... *PS/2 Model 30 (2 floppy unit, no HDD)- 8088 mani unit/no ram - $15 + shipping *PS/2 Model 30's - 8088 main unit/no ram - $20 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 30-286's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 50Z's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 55SX's - 386SX main unit/no ram - $30 each + shipping *PS/2 Model 56SLC's - 486 main unit/no ram - $120 each + shipping (SCSI drive) *PS/2 Model 57SLC (1 only) - 486 main unit/no ram - $150 + shipping (SCSI drive) *PS/2 Model 65's - 386SX tower unit/no ram-$45 each + shipping (some SCSI types) *PS/2 Model 80's - 386DX tower unit/no ram-$50 each + shipping (some SCSI types) *IBM 5150 "PC" and 5160 "XT'" - inquire. Available w or w/o monitor or keyboard *IBM 5170 "AT"'s - 286 workhorse main unit, contents vary - inquire Above are case, power supply, motherbd, floppy, hard drive, applicable controller(s) in great shape but without memory. Memory will be obtained by buyer or available with unit for a little more. All have built in VGA video, serial, parallel, mouse and keyboard ports. Hard drive sizes vary. All are tested and in great physical and electronic condition. Also available: *PS/2 Model 55SX motherboards - complete/no ram - $10 each + shipping *MCA 16/4 token ring cards - long and short - $5 each or 3 for $10 (plus shipping) *MCA 3270 adapters BNC type - long and short - 5 for $10 plus shipping *Cases for many IBM machines, power suppiles, etc. drop a note with your needs Many other parts, cards and items for IBM and other brand machines. Discounts may apply to multiple purchases, mixed or same. Please inquire. Shipping is generally by USPS parcel post but UPS may be used upon request. Payment by cashier's check or money order, no personal checks please. COD only with prior approval and incurs additionl COD charges. Info on each model's specs and pictures can be obtained at http://members.tripod.com/~ps2page/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 2 19:06:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives Message-ID: I finally got back to working on my PDP-11/44, and finished cleaning it up yesterday. So now I'm ready to start testing stuff. Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drives in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do they have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in them before they will show any signs of life? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 2 18:09:35 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: <199808022309.TAA01334@shell.monmouth.com> > Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drives > in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do they > have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in them > before they will show any signs of life? > They need the serial port connection to do anything. Boot dd0 should get the light lit even without a tape in. (I think... it's been 10 years since I booted an 11 with TU58's) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 2 19:12:31 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: OT: Alphastation 200 4/233 Message-ID: I realize this is off topic, but in case anyone is interested www.onsale.com is selling these for $349.00 of course the one I just got came to $386.46 when you add in shipping. They've got a 1.44Mb floppy, 16Mb of RAM, 2Mb video card, 233Mhz processor and some other things. It doesn't sound like they've got a hard drive, keyboard, or mouse, adn there is no monitor. Still I gather it's a fairly good price, and a bunch of people in the DEC newsgroups are picking them up (I gather they still have about 25 to sell). The best part is this model is supposedly able to run OpenVMS (Alpha), WinNT, Linux, and DEC Unix. Now all I've got to do is save up for a copy of OpenVMS for the Alpha :^) On the downside RAM looks to be spendy for these suckers. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 2 18:13:33 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > OK, now you need to fix the Sidewinder. I think we can discount an electronic > > > problem for the moment. Time to repair that drive roller, I guess... > > > > Ok, what diameter is it supposed to be? > > Pester me in a few days, and I'll measure the roller in my Sidewinder. > Quite how you make a replacement is another matter.... > > > > > Cheers > > Karl > > -tony > A year or so ago, I made up a replacement 'tire' (tyre for you, Tony) for a drive in an old Televideo TS816 from a rubber grommet. Fortunately, the spindle was about .25" and the groove diameter of the grommet was slightly larger than the diameter that the tire needed to be. I was able to cut and sand it down to the desired diameter and cement it onto the spindle. Worked like a champ! When I did it, I used a lathe to spin a rod on which the grommet was mounted, but an electric drill would probably work as well. - don From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 2 19:26:11 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: <9808022326.AA15354@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 589 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980802/d4fcc5cf/attachment.ksh From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sun Aug 2 18:35:01 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808022335.TAA20939@dgs.cs.unc.edu> On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, I wrote ] Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be ] at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, ] for the cost of postage. ] ...blah, blah, blah... To which there were several replies... ...................................................................... Tim Shoppa wrote: ] > ... The consensus seems to be that they need some associated ] > equipment to do the dialing. ] ] The "associated equipment" is nothing more than a regular phone. ] ... Can you tell me how to do that? An earlier reply (from Bill Pechter?) said I needed a "dataphone", and would dial with that and then press a "data" switch. I have neither a dataphone nor a data switch... I did try mucking around with the "talk" switch and an ordinary telephone, but couldn't get any interesting behavior out of them. (Ie: I connected the "telco" socket on the modem to the phone line from the wall, and then the telephone into "telset" on the modem. I also tried connecting both the modem and the telephone to the wall via a "Y" adapter. Did I miss some obvious thing? I don't now remember which setup gave what results, but in the cases when I could actually dial out and get a carrier, I couldn't get the modem to do anything about it.) ...................................................................... Russ Blakeman wrote: ] > ... None respond to the Hayes "AT" command set, and each has a ... ] have you tried thr Racal Vadic command set, and do they have to be AT ] command compatible? I have a box stashed out in the storage building with ] a bunch of old modems, 300/1200/2400 types and all externals. I'll have ] to dig fo them this weekend (along with the Commie stuff I was supposed ] to get last weekend) and see what there is and let you know. What exactly ] are you planing to do with the modems and what speed do you need? I've never even heard of the Racal Vadic command set, although I do recognize the name as an old modem manufacturer. Hints would be welcome. I don't have any real need for these modems, except that they are old computer stuff, and were on their way to a land fill. I snagged 'em mainly thinking that somebody on this list might be interested in them. I could easily picture them on a shelf next to a Vax, happily chugging away. (And for that purpose, I might hang onto one of them for myself. But that leaves three taking up floor space.) ] > Similarly, I've got a Sytek 2532 Packet Communications Unit, with... ] Almost sounds like a multiplexer unit.....someone has a boat without an ] anchor out there. :-) Well, one man's anchor is another man's treasure, right? We aren't hanging around on this list because we only like the fastest compustuff. Anybody with a basement full of old computers might very well want some old networking stuff to glue them together with. As for me, I don't even have a basement. But I am off to a good start; I have stuff to populate one. ...................................................................... Jack Peacock wrote: ] Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > There are two BellSouth 212A's, and two similar modems by Penril. ] From my experience with Penril modem the best thing you can do is send ] them to the dumpster. ... What, no warm fuzzy nostagic feelings for these? :-) How about this, slap a 56K modem inside the shell, maybe even wire up the front-panel LEDs appropriately, and amaze your friends. It all depends on what kind of thrill you're after. ...................................................................... BTW, if I come across more junk like this, should I continue to post it here, or should I just list it on that web page and assume that interested parties will find it? Cheers, Bill. From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:07:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808022335.TAA20939@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: > Well, one man's anchor is another man's treasure, right? We aren't > hanging around on this list because we only like the fastest compustuff. > Anybody with a basement full of old computers might very well want some > old networking stuff to glue them together with. I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite suprising. Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond ethernet/token thing cards? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:21:43 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. Message-ID: I finally took a good look at that new PDP-11/23 I purchased some time ago. It seems to have some normal looking DEC cards in it (LSI-11/2, others). It does, however, have an interesting looking card set from Associated Computer Consultants, called "MDMA" (as far as I can tell). It appears to be from the mid-1980s. One card contains some sort of engine, with ROMs and (4) 2901s. The other card contains a bunch of glue and interface stuff, and has a connection to a big round military type connector (the modern versions of the Cannon connector) on the back panel of the chassis marked "IMP". Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? All I have is the processor - no drives or OS, so I can not tell much if I power it up. William Donzelli william@ans.net From scottk5 at ibm.net Sun Aug 2 19:23:59 1998 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (scottk5@ibm.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher References: Message-ID: <35C5031F.71A8@ibm.net> William Donzelli wrote: > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net Well, I'm not sure that it's "classic" but I have an old ARCnet setup (active hub, various cards for ISA and MCA bus, parallel port ARCnet adapters) that I like to pull out and mess with on occasion; and I have all the software to set up a classic "IBM PC Lan" network on a couple of PC's, but have never been able to finalize any deals on the proprietary IBM lan cards required (hint, hint....if anybody has any!!). Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 19:30:51 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the > U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have > been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? All I had to do was look... William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 2 19:33:40 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a > rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, > switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s I don't shun it. I think the problem is identifying just what the hell all these random CSUs, modems, MUXes, etc. are. So even if you could identify it, then what? Another problem is finding any documentation for this stuff to put it back to good use. If you did know what you were looking at (I can't even identify most of the communcations equipment out there its so old) then maybe you'd have a chance. But your garden variety collector/preservationist wouldn't know the first thing about the stuff. > are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > suprising. That would be great. However, if the simplest ethernet (coax) is 10Mbps, why settle for 1.544Mbps and the hassle to bring such a link online, not to mention its interface limitations? > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? I collect older datacom equipment such as modems when I find them, but generally skip over the CSU/DSUs and MUXes as uninteresing. BTW, there is a non-profit organization (musuem) that preserves old datacom equipment. I wish I had the web page on hand, but they are located in Fallbrook, California. I'm considering donating my AT&T Horizon key system to them. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Aug 2 19:53:20 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. References: Message-ID: <35C50A00.E308F16C@halcyon.com> Here is a snippet I recently posted on comp.sys.dec.micro and a few other newsgroups asking for identification: 1) 2 dual-height boards, connected by 40-conductor cable a) board 1: labelled ACC MDMA 6800043 contains 4 AM2901PC bit-sliced processors 11 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) 1 bank of wire-wrap jumpers b) board 2: labelled ACC X0/1822 6800044 4 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) 5 LEDs 1 26-pin external connector 3 banks of wire-wrap jumpers Nobody responed. Thanks for answering my question! Want some more cards? Dave P.S. I suspect that these were also a part of the same system: 2) dual-height board Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Interface P/N 40020019 Rev 02 contains 28-pin external connector 3) dual-height board Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Transporter Omninet P/N 8169 contains 3-pin external connector LED 8-position DIP switch 4) dual-height board (2 each) Corvus Systems 1981 LSI-11 Transporter Omninet P/N 8010-08032 contains 3-pin external connector LED 8-position DIP switch William Donzelli wrote: > > I finally took a good look at that new PDP-11/23 I purchased some time > ago. It seems to have some normal looking DEC cards in it (LSI-11/2, > others). It does, however, have an interesting looking card set from > Associated Computer Consultants, called "MDMA" (as far as I can tell). It > appears to be from the mid-1980s. One card contains some sort of engine, > with ROMs and (4) 2901s. The other card contains a bunch of glue and > interface stuff, and has a connection to a big round military type > connector (the modern versions of the Cannon connector) on the back panel > of the chassis marked "IMP". > > Being that this computer came from a certain spooky branch of the > U.S., that "IMP" looks awfully suspicious. Could this little DEC box have > been slated for the ARPAnet, but came just a little too late? > > All I have is the processor - no drives or OS, so I can not tell much if I > power it up. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:14:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 2, 98 04:06:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 895 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/a7b89966/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:24:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 2, 98 08:07:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/15d7d51c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 19:31:26 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 2, 98 04:13:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/4530cafc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 2 20:25:16 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 2, 98 05:33:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/4ca74820/attachment.ksh From deker at digitaladdiction.com Sun Aug 2 20:34:37 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: ADDS Mentor M2000? Message-ID: I've got one of these machines in a closet downstairs. It has a QIC tape drive, a bunch of DB9 serial ports, and a bunch of Z80 processors. Does anybody here know anything about these boxes? thanks rob From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 2 20:57:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives Message-ID: <199808030157.AA00324@world.std.com> < Which brings me to my question, I went ahead and plugged the TU-58 drive < in to see if they would give any indication of life. Not a thing. Do t < have to be plugged into the line (serial I think), or have a tape in the < before they will show any signs of life? One thing to check first. Has the drive roller turned to goo? the tend to age badly and turn into a sticky mess. I have a fix however. If that is ok with the cover off whatch the action of the led on the controller board. If show activity all is good. generally, if the drive roller is good you can count on the rest. Allison From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 2 21:17:28 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <9807312103.AA11030@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be > > at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, Hehe, yup, gotta agree there. While many classic computers interest me, a slow old modem is just a slow old waste of my time. What is the difference? The old computers we like seem to have some "personality" as do many of their peripherials. But to me modems are only as good as their price tag and speed. (and despite my 32 year tag, I've spent many an hour on 300bps acoustics) -wayne From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 21:37:09 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't shun it. I think the problem is identifying just what the hell > all these random CSUs, modems, MUXes, etc. are. So even if you could > identify it, then what? Another problem is finding any documentation for > this stuff to put it back to good use. If you did know what you were > looking at (I can't even identify most of the communcations equipment out > there its so old) then maybe you'd have a chance. But your garden variety > collector/preservationist wouldn't know the first thing about the stuff. I would think that most of the old standards are floating around on the net these days, probably at .edu sites. Most of the boxes have some brains to them, so many times you will not be confronted by a bunch of unmarked/confusing controls. From there, fiddle until the alarms go away. As for fixing datacom equipment, there may be no need. The stuff tends to be built very well - far better than most industrial stuff, and magnitudes better than the comsumer stuff. 100% service, 24 by 7 by 365! Now I am not saying that the stuff NEVER breaks... > That would be great. However, if the simplest ethernet (coax) is 10Mbps, > why settle for 1.544Mbps and the hassle to bring such a link online, not > to mention its interface limitations? Put a few boxes on a 10base2 segment, start them all talking, and you will see that 10 Mbps go away fast. Have a CSU/router on each end and you will use just about every bit in that 1.544 Mbps. Anyway, what is hard about getting a back to back T1 up? B8ZS is your friend. > I collect older datacom equipment such as modems when I find them, but > generally skip over the CSU/DSUs and MUXes as uninteresing. BTW, there is > a non-profit organization (musuem) that preserves old datacom equipment. RCS/RI tends to get all of the datacom scrap from the former ANSnet. Our stack of Cylinks is growing at an alarming rate. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 21:50:51 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: <35C50A00.E308F16C@halcyon.com> Message-ID: > 1) 2 dual-height boards, connected by 40-conductor cable > a) board 1: labelled ACC MDMA 6800043 > contains 4 AM2901PC bit-sliced processors > 11 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) > 1 bank of wire-wrap jumpers > b) board 2: labelled ACC X0/1822 6800044 > 4 PROMs (20-pin DIPs) > 5 LEDs > 1 26-pin external connector > 3 banks of wire-wrap jumpers Exactly! > Nobody responed. Thanks for answering my question! Want some more > cards? Donate them to RCS/RI! > P.S. I suspect that these were also a part of the same system: From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 2 21:52:06 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808030252.AA02466@world.std.com> >I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a >rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, >switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s >are becoming turtle highways. How about running a T1 line between the >house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite >suprising. > >Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond >ethernet/token thing cards? I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered 'classic', but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From poesie at geocities.com Sun Aug 2 21:50:53 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... Message-ID: <35C5258D.3795@geocities.com> I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores, but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a regular basis? all suggestions welcomed. -Eric From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 2 22:11:31 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... Message-ID: <199808030314.XAA04622@gate.usaor.net> I've seen them in computer magazines (Computer Shopper) for $15-20. You may also be able to try a computer show. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Poesie > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: laptop IDE drives & homebuilt connectors... > Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 10:50 PM > > I know I've seen these, but would anyone have some suggestions as to > how to go about building a little board to connect laptop IDE drives to > standard PC IDE interfaces? I gather it would just involve lining up the > pins, and adding in some power. I have seen them for 20$ US in stores, > but my searches as of late have uncovered nothing. anybody do this on a > regular basis? all suggestions welcomed. > > -Eric > > From william at ans.net Sun Aug 2 22:16:10 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808030252.AA02466@world.std.com> Message-ID: > I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered > 'classic', There are lots of old networking standards from the years prior to 1988 (or even 1978), for both LANs and WANs. You have 56K, T1 (fractional or whole), V.35, ARCnet, token thing, FDDI... > but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. FDDI, the _real_ networking standard! I will run a few FDDI lines between the house and garage some day, but I will have to bury a conduit first to encase them. With approriate routing cards, I may be able to get 3 lines between the RS/6000s on either end, but that might be stretching it. Two is quite possible. Anyway, that would be one helluva pipe! William Donzelli william@ans.net From Imparch at eisa.net.au Sun Aug 2 23:28:49 1998 From: Imparch at eisa.net.au (Michael Blumenthal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: atari800xl Message-ID: <199808030419.OAA09671@mail.eisa.net.au> ATARI800XL + disk & tape drives + printers + software available in Melbourne, Australia From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Aug 3 00:35:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <35C0B9A6.8A4647FA@polygon.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, J. Buck Caldwell wrote: > 2. 7 (count 'em, 7) Wang systems. I'll have model numbers &such tomorrow > (something along the lines of PC-02). Hark! Do they look like the machine at: http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/Wang/PC-002.html > Only three monitors, only one keyboard. What do the monitors look like? What kind of connectors? Do your machines have a board labeled 'IBM Mono Emulator'? > Two 5 1/4 flopies per, no software. Any help would be a start. > Most have Network cards of some kind - is this ethernet? Each has two > BNC connecters. Almost looks like a daisy-chain system of some kind. I'd like to know what those 'network' cards are for, too. > J. Buck Caldwell Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 00:37:01 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > A year or so ago, I made up a replacement 'tire' (tyre for you, Tony) for > > a drive in an old Televideo TS816 from a rubber grommet. Fortunately, > > the spindle was about .25" and the groove diameter of the grommet was > > slightly larger than the diameter that the tire needed to be. I was able > > to cut and sand it down to the desired diameter and cement it onto the > > Actually iso-cyano acrylic hydro-copolymerising adhesive (superglue in > the UK) is very good at sticking rubber. You can make quite good O-rings, > and even drive belts by cutting a length of rubber cord and gluing the > ends together. > > So you might have been able to cut a piece radially out of the grommet > and glue the edges together. > > > spindle. Worked like a champ! When I did it, I used a lathe to spin a > > rod on which the grommet was mounted, but an electric drill would > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > is you need to take a very light cut... With a very sharp cutting tool! > As a kludge, and to ensure it is concentric with the spindle, why not use > the drive motor ? Put the oversize tyre on the spindle, get the motor > turning (a knowledge of how the drive operates, and the interface > signals, helps), and take a light cut over the surface with a sharp knife > blade. Rather dependent upon the drive. In many, the tyre is rather inaccesible, and then there is the risk of jamming things up with rubber dust/shavings. - don > -tony > > From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 00:48:30 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 2, 98 11:16:10 pm Message-ID: <199808030548.BAA22318@user2.infinet.com> William Donzelli (william@ans.net) writes: > > I'm not sure anything beyond ethernet would strictly be considered > > 'classic', > > There are lots of old networking standards from the years prior to 1988 > (or even 1978), for both LANs and WANs. You have 56K, T1 (fractional or > whole), V.35, ARCnet, token thing, FDDI... As I've mentioned elsewhere on this list, I used to make bisync and sdlc interface cards for PDP-11's and VAXen. They replaced the "HASPBOX" in 1982 (the HASPBOX was a PDP-11/04 or PDP-11/03 with 100% DEC boards that plugged into a unibus machine via DR11C and ran a custom communications package). It used a 68000 and between 32K and 2M of RAM (depending on the model) with a parallel port (Dataproducts, not Centronics) and a sync serial port (COM5025 UART or Z8530 SCC). It ran beteen 2400 baud to 64Kb (in Europe, 56Kb in the US). At that company, we didn't have Ethernet to link our machines. We used COMBOARD(R) to link VAXen for file transfers, and DMF-32/DMR11 and sync modem eliminators to link them for DECnet remote logins and such. The COMBOARDs were much lighter on the CPU, but were not useful for transparent kinds of I/O. You had to run (external) commands like SEND and RJEOPR to manipulate the files. Just for kicks (since I legally retain the copyrights of my former employer), I did an Altavista search for "RJEOPR" and the like and dug up a web page from a university that had put their VMS help files on the Web. Part of our installation procedure was to optionally mangle your help files to insert pages for our custom commands (back in the VMS3/4 days, before the advent of combination logicals to point to several directories simultaneously a-la SYS$MANAGER). The complete text of our help messages are up on the Web. While technically a copyright violation, I'm not concerned about protecting 15-year-old help files, if DEC/Compaq isn't concerned about same. Posting *source* is right out! But anyway, Yes, Virginia, there were networks before Ethernet. Not as fast, but viable over inter-state distances. > > but I have a set of DS5000/200s connected via FDDI. > > FDDI, the _real_ networking standard! > > I will run a few FDDI lines between the house and garage some day, but I > will have to bury a conduit first to encase them. With approriate > routing cards, I may be able to get 3 lines between the RS/6000s on either > end, but that might be stretching it. Two is quite possible. Anyway, that > would be one helluva pipe! At McMurdo Station, Antarctica, we have a station-wide FDDI ring linking the larger work centers. It's well over 1Km long, and is a very stable way of routing multiple Ethernets through dozens of buildings. It's been so stable that more than once, it escaped the attention of the network engineer that the ring was broken and wrapping, until he happened to make a visual inspection of a router that happened to be in my office, and noticed a particular light was on, indication this dangerous condition. (For the FDDI-impaired, FDDI is a token-style network with an A ring and a B ring, that can withstand one break, and "wrap" from end to end, like turning a circle into a horseshoe. This impairs efficiency, but not basic functionality, until a second break occurs, dividing your network into two independent segments. This Is Bad. It's important to nip that in the bud and restore the ring nature of the network before traffic or additional failures cause headaches). -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 01:26:50 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 3, 98 01:24:00 am Message-ID: <199808030626.CAA22607@user2.infinet.com> tony writes: > > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > > ethernet/token thing cards? > > Does anyone else remember the 'York Box'. This was an interface between > either an async RS232 port or a DR11-like parallel port and an X25 line. > It was built from standard DEC modules (SBC21 + 64Kbyte Q-bus RAM card + > DRV11 + DPV11) in a BA11-V cabinet. They were used on the UK JANET > network to link VAXen (on the DR11 port) and just about anything else (on > the RS232 port - I don't remember the York Box specifically, but I remember JANET from my DECUS days. The York sounds just like an X.25 version of the HASPBOX with more modern cards (the HASPBOX dates from 1977 to 1982). It was an 11/03 (KD-11A?) or 11/23 (KDF-11) or 11/04, depending on exact vintage, with RAM and a DPV11 or similar (COM5025 UART), again, depending on vintage, all running a custom monolithic I/O front-end program that was downloaded once per phone call, and handled retransmission of flawed packets and routing to a local printer port, all without distubing the host PDP-11. It was a great boon the RSTS adminstrators to offload print jobs from the IBM mainframe. The pre-RSTS v8 print spooler ate gobs of CPU (later versions did as well, I suspect, but by then, there were more cycles to go around). The application software on the PDP-11 host saw a perfect data stream, blocked to 512 bytes per block, DMAed into memory, ready to chew on. Very efficient. A funny side note, when HASPBOX was replaced by COMBOARD(R), a 68000-based, single-board descendent, the serial I/O board often had more horsepower than the PDP-11 or VAX it went into (an 8Mhz 68K is rated at a nominal .6 MIPS, which compares favorably to a VAX 11/750 at .6 VUPs) It could be termed an I/O coprocessor at that level. Second funny side note: the original HASPBOX code, in PDP-11 MACRO, was converted to 68K assembler by TECO macros. the macros did over 90% of the work, humans did a quick desk check and fired it up. It was an amazingly clean migration, and a testement to how much the Motorola designers borrowed from DEC in terms of processor philosophy. Both CPUs rank up there in my top 5 to program (the 6502 and 1802 all competing for number one). 80x6 assembler sucks, in case anyone cares to hear. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 02:42:40 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 In-Reply-To: <000301bdbd8e$0f0f2b60$c775fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 1, 98 04:50:05 pm Message-ID: <199808030742.DAA23153@user2.infinet.com> > > Hello, all: > > Another crazy project... > > While working on my old-DOS decompilation project, I've found that it > would be handy to have some sort of ICE hardware/software to watch the > boot-up sequence, examine specific registers, test code fragments, etc.... > How about this...how about a virtual PC running under OS/2 or Windows > NT? ... How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the features your schedule permits. Presumably you can tell it you want an 8088 vs something newer, but I don't know that for certain. I haven't used it since 1996, so I can't comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 04:34:48 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: PS/2 Items FS In-Reply-To: <35C48024.4894099C@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 2, 98 10:05:09 am Message-ID: <199808030934.FAA24048@user2.infinet.com> > > I have for sale (or trade in some cases) the following items which may > be of interest to those looking for a second machine, a utility machine, > or just something cheap to tinker with... > > *PS/2 Model 30 (2 floppy unit, no HDD)- 8088 mani unit/no ram - $15 + > shipping > *PS/2 Model 30's - 8088 main unit/no ram - $20 each + shipping > *PS/2 Model 30-286's - 286 main unit/no ram - $25 each + shipping If these use 256Kx9 30-pin SIMMs, I have plenty to spare. I have speeds from 80 to 150 ns. If need be, I can crack open my working PS/2 Model 30 and see what's in there right now. ISTR two 30-pin sockets and that's all. No, I don't want another PS/2. No, I don't want to get rid of the one I've got (former employer's data and records saved from the dumpster when the business went under - my old W-2's are in there!) Besides, I stuck an NE1000 in there; it's on my network (using Kermit's built-in TCP/IP) Make offer on RAM. Offer must exceed cost of postage. ;-) Unreasonable offers refused. -ethan From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Aug 3 05:33:10 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: >> Okay, I've now given up hope that those old modems will ever be >> at all useful or interesting to me. So they're up for grabs, >> for the cost of postage. just a thought, but were these modems ever designed to connect to a public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or whatever... cheers Jules From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 08:11:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: <199808031311.AA10932@world.std.com> < > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my gues < > is you need to take a very light cut... < < With a very sharp cutting tool! You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubber part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will be concentric and gives a smooth surface. the alternate is to spin the tire and work against a hard surfaced abrasive board. < > As a kludge, and to ensure it is concentric with the spindle, why not < > the drive motor ? Put the oversize tyre on the spindle, get the motor < > turning (a knowledge of how the drive operates, and the interface < > signals, helps), and take a light cut over the surface with a sharp kn < > blade. disconnect the motor and power it from a supply rather than risk cooking the drive electronics. < Rather dependent upon the drive. In many, the tyre is rather < inaccesible, and then there is the risk of jamming things up with rubber < dust/shavings. that is an issue too. the solution is to demount the moter and work off drive. Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 3 08:12:59 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:44 2005 Subject: Zenith time manager software FS Message-ID: <35C5B75A.B3996940@bbtel.com> I have an unused and unregistered copy, complete, of Zenith Data Systems/Heath Company's "Breakthrough Timeline" which appears to be a timeline creator/project manager. It has the original box, manuals, key template, registration certificate and the original 5.25" 360k floppies (still in the envelope). From scanning the manual it's roughly 1986/87 vintage and should run on most any machine from 8086/8088 up through our present array of hardware. Really good condition visually too, might be good as part of a collection. Need $12 for it which includes mailing in the 48 CONUS states. First come, first serve. Email me direct for info. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From franke at sbs.de Mon Aug 3 10:55:45 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: CBM B500 Message-ID: <199808031340.PAA24418@marina.fth.sbs.de> Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line was introducted in 1983. Any Info would be usefull. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 3 11:40:38 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 3, 98 01:14:01 am Message-ID: <9808031540.AA00746@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/7bdb2dab/attachment.ksh From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 3 10:50:52 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: DEC TU-58 Drives In-Reply-To: <9808031540.AA00746@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 3, 98 08:40:38 am Message-ID: <199808031550.LAA18682@shell.monmouth.com> > > > Define 'signs of life' :-). They don't spin the motors or light the LEDs > > on the front panel at switch-on, but there's an LED inside, on the > > controller board, that should flash once (I can't remember if it's > > on-off-on or off-on-off) at switch on. Remove the front part of the > > baseplate to see it. It's the only LED on the controller board. > > It's on for about 100ms, off for about 300ms, then back on. > > Incidentally, I just ordered a half dozen TU58-K cartridges for a > customer who is (eventually) going to get upgraded from a VT103 with > dual TU58's to an Andromeda desktop Q-bus box with a Mentec M100 PDP-11 > compatible CPU. US$33 each from DECDirect (1-800-Digital) - the > most I've ever paid for 256 kbytes of storage! A couple of years > ago the price was closer to US$24 each. > > Their prices on RX50-K's were the cheapest I've ever seen, though: > US$9 for a box of ten. > > Tim. > What's going to happen with the VT103's... 8-) Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 3 10:45:35 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> At 06:19 PM 7/31/98 -0700, Kai wrote: >I just had to pass this on to the list. >http://shell.rmi.net/~bslatner/humor/pournell.html The parody mentions his kids - week before last, I bumped into Alex Pournelle walking around in one of the computer history exhibits (where one of my Teraks was on display) at the ACM SIGGRAPH computer graphics convention in Orlando. For many years while I was working as a freelance writer, I'd see Jerry in person at press events at computer shows, and I knew many of his assistants / toadies. Ugh. It was frightening what he was given, and how little time he spent with it, and how little he understood it. Alex has certainly inherited or adopted many of his father's traits, including the condescending dismissal and endless bumming of software and hardware. He and another writer are working on a WinNT "studio" book, and are gathering all the 3D and video stuff they can find - but of course, many writers do all that. Where does it all go? It depends. The more pricey the toy, the less likely someone gets to keep it forever. Software often has no value on this spectrum, and stays in the hands of the reviewer, who might keep it or even resell it. (I was once appalled by the brisk cash gathered by a "reviewer" of books for a newsletter for librarians, who'd turn a bagful of new books into cash each week at the nearest used book store, after dismissing each with barely a paragraph "review".) For someone of Poor-Nelly-ian magnitude, you've ultimately got to *hire* someone to be in charge of returning and donating all the stuff that arrives. Keep in mind, a great deal arrives unsolicited. I note that the parody was written by Ed DeJesus, an actual editor at Byte, who oversaw my first and last Byte article (see . I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 11:49:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > just a thought, but were these modems ever designed to connect to a > public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be > designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's > what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or > whatever... Line voltages would not (and could not) differ unless it was some short haul modem. The higher layer protocols might though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 3 11:54:24 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:07:57 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli wrote: > I am not sure why classic networking stuff tends to be shunned like a > rabid dog. Stuff from the 1970s is quite rare, but 1980s era stuff (CSUs, > switches, etc.) tends to be around, and now quite available, now that T1s > are becoming turtle highways. Some thoughts: With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of course you never find both together. (What is the sound of one statmux clapping?) Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting proposition. Some of us probably worked with this stuff back in the days when it was new (1983-1989 in my case). "Fun" is not the adjective that comes to my mind. > How about running a T1 line between the > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > suprising. Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? I know that we used to have a fiber run under the parking lot at the office, and Ethernet-fiber bridge things at the ends (two buildings w/parking lot between). > Does anyone on this list have any classic networking stuff beyond > ethernet/token thing cards? Not a lot, and mostly not by intent. Recently I got an HP9000/220U with some extra boxes that I believe are a CSU and some flavor of mux. No, it's not at all clear to me why they were piled together into one lot; the 9000 didn't have the right sorts of I/O for this. -Frank McConnell From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 12:10:08 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of > course you never find both together. (What is the sound of one statmux > clapping?) Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! > Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to > the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs > expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting > two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting > proposition. Lots of the stuff I have seen allows a user to insert an external clock - this can be handy for testing in the real world. Providing the clock is no big deal. Sure, it would be nice to get a dead-on clock for a T1, but as long as you keep the circuit private, the clock can be fairly sloppy. > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? Yes, some people on this list get connected this way (T1s that run a whole 20 feet, CSU to CSU, with no frame in between). A horrible kludge in a production environment, in my opinion, but it worked for quite a few years. Recently someone at ANS suggested that we use a T3 the same way, but he ended up being tarred and feathered. > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? Differences as in losses due to the long run? That is what the Line Build Out option is for (on most CSUs). T1s, with thier twisted pair, differential design, tend to be pretty tough. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 12:11:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031654.JAA20210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 3 Aug 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Some of us probably worked with this stuff back in the days when it > was new (1983-1989 in my case). "Fun" is not the adjective that comes > to my mind. Yep. > > How about running a T1 line between the > > house and garage? With appropriate routing, its performance can be quite > > suprising. > > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? Yes. Perhaps a couple hundred feet? > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? Shouldn't be. But you can find NIUs (or rip them out of the phone room of your office building when no one's looking) that would provide the proper conditioning and balance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 13:01:05 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 3, 98 01:10:08 pm Message-ID: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> > > > With many of these devices, it takes (at least) two to tango, and of > > course you never find both together. What you sometimes find is a rack from one end of a connection with more than one of the same item. They had bnever been connected to each other in their former life, but that's easy to fix. > > (What is the sound of one statmux clapping?) LOL! Shouldn't that be one statmux muxing? > Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! And another, and another... > > Synchronous modems often didn't just carry the data from one end to > > the other, they also provided clock signals to the DTEs. Many DTEs > > expect to see those clock signals and won't originate them, so getting > > two nearby ones to talk over direct cabling can be an interesting > > proposition. When I worked with sync comms, the hardest thing to simulate was the POTS lines. We eventually built a product that never sold (but got lots of in-house use) that simulated a C.O., down to line faults like one-way connections and the like. For RS-232/V.35 connections, we had shelves filled with Black Box modem eliminators and a DB-25 patch panel. You plug two DTEs in, and voila, they talk at whatever baud rate you strap the M.E. to. We even made an inline M.E. for a few years with a 5.0688MHz Xtal and a COM8046 baud rate generator. I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and slow. My goal has always been the opposite - find a way to use the newest networking possible with the older equipment. Beyond bringing Ethernet to PC-XTs, it's been a while since I had a success story. -ethan From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 13:07:03 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 3, 9:11) References: <199808031311.AA10932@world.std.com> Message-ID: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 3, 9:11, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: Oh heck it booted > > < > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my gues > < > is you need to take a very light cut... > < > < With a very sharp cutting tool! > > You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubber > part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will be > concentric and gives a smooth surface. In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly lubricated with glycerine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 13:24:17 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) ^^^^ ^^^^^ > mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly > lubricated with glycerine. > I wonder if the younger generations know about those things? - don From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 13:39:46 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > > Well, after finding one, you will have a new goal of finding another one! > > And another, and another... Well, I suppose then I am lucky, in that I have more Cylink T1 boxes than I can shake a stick at. GDC 56Ks (eeeewww!) as well... > I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic > networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and > slow. Hmmmm...big, old, and slow, you say. Sounds like many PDP-11s and VAXen I know! > My goal has always been the opposite - find a way to use the newest > networking possible with the older equipment. Beyond bringing Ethernet > to PC-XTs, it's been a while since I had a success story. I tend to see it at the junkyards alot. Ciscos (GS class machines) tend to get pulled out before the scrappers get to the stuff, as they are still very capable boxes. The same applies to Wellfleets. William Donzelli william@ans.net From archive at navix.net Mon Aug 3 15:36:22 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Old APF Imagination Machine wanted] Message-ID: <35C61F45.FFC99CFA@navix.net> I'm forwarding this message from another classic computer list I'm on.... I figured you folks may be able to help him out a little more. Please reply to him personally at his e-mail address given at the far bottom.... Thanks, CORD -- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Larry Greenfield Subject: Old computder wanted Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:58:09 GMT Size: 4346 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/be761960/attachment.mht From pryor at wi.net Mon Aug 3 13:47:31 1998 From: pryor at wi.net (James Pryor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: PC-68K Message-ID: <35C605C3.555483DD@wi.net> I have 2 of these XT bus boards, plus a PC-68K MMIO daughterboard. They are copyright 1985/1986 by N.J. Costanzo & TLM Systems, Inc. 1-meg on-board, smartwatch, no cpu or roms Can anyone provide additional information re: original use, availability of roms, system software? Any information appreciated. Jim From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 3 13:20:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031801.OAA01348@user2.infinet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> At 02:01 PM 8/3/98 -0400, you wrote: > >When I worked with sync comms, the hardest thing to simulate was the POTS >lines. We eventually built a product that never sold (but got lots of >in-house use) that simulated a C.O., down to line faults like one-way >connections and the like. I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a POTS network and using now-free modems to send small amounts of data between them and to a central computer... but I'd never seen a reference to doing this in FAQs on the net. I'd assumed that was because it was too easy, not too hard. - John From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 3 13:55:08 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:10:08 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199808031855.LAA23700@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli wrote: > Lots of the stuff I have seen allows a user to insert an external clock - > this can be handy for testing in the real world. Providing the clock is no > big deal. Sure, it would be nice to get a dead-on clock for a T1, but as > long as you keep the circuit private, the clock can be fairly sloppy. Thanks for jogging my memory about that, I guess I've been in denial about this stuff for a while. Yeah, if you're just running over a direct cable (which is what I was thinking about) you'd be OK doing this. > > Can you do this over dry copper, for short runs? > > Yes, some people on this list get connected this way (T1s that run a whole > 20 feet, CSU to CSU, with no frame in between). A horrible kludge in a > production environment, in my opinion, but it worked for quite a few > years. Recently someone at ANS suggested that we use a T3 the same way, > but he ended up being tarred and feathered. Umm...why were you doing this? I can understand it for testing and as a crude but expensive bandwidth limiter. > > If so, would you want to? You mentioned in another post that you'd > > have to run conduit for FDDI, and that makes me think there might be > > some open space between hither and yon. Sure, you could run copper, > > but wouldn't electrical potential differences be a problem? > > Differences as in losses due to the long run? That is what the Line Build > Out option is for (on most CSUs). T1s, with thier twisted pair, > differential design, tend to be pretty tough. No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull Ethernet coax through that conduit. -Frank McConnell From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 14:10:13 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031855.LAA23700@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Umm...why were you doing this? I can understand it for testing and as > a crude but expensive bandwidth limiter. I do not know, but it seemed like such a waste. Just now are the things being taken out and replaced with 10baseT. > No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the > two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of > thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull > Ethernet coax through that conduit. I can see for two buildings that were far away, this could be an issue, but for my run of 50 feet, there should be no problem. The ground potential between the two plots of land ought not to be much at all. As for statis, one could pull a drain wire. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:11:02 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted Message-ID: <199808031911.AA15709@world.std.com> < > You don't cut it you grind it! If done on a lathe you turn the rubbe < > part and run a high speed grinder against it. It's insures it will b < > concentric and gives a smooth surface. < < In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a < very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades < mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. You can if you have the right tools. Grinding is easier for most to do. I make TU58 drive wheels using thickwall rubber tube or tygon and mount the assembled result on an old tu58 motor and "grind" on a bench grinder. I get a good round smooth surface, minimal setup. The hub used is the one with the tire turned to goo, with the goo removed. < For some jobs, I've seen a tubular cutter (rather like a cork borer) < mounted in the tailstock and pressed into the workpiece, similarly < lubricated with glycerine. For general shapes its ok, the deformation affects accuracy. We used that to get the general shape (tubes or plugs) and then mounted them and did final grind. It was what the chief engineer wanted. Generally the size of the drive roller is allowed considerable latitude but roundness is desirable. Allison From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 14:17:43 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number > of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a > POTS network and using now-free modems to send small amounts of data > between them and to a central computer... but I'd never seen a > reference to doing this in FAQs on the net. I'd assumed that > was because it was too easy, not too hard. Well, its incredibly easy if you have a PBX. Otherwise, it would be nothing short of a bitch to create your own in-house AT&T. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 3 14:29:31 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted References: <199808031911.AA15709@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35C60F99.417B3622@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > < In the workshops I've seen where it's handled, it's usually done with a > < very sharp tool with a very acute cutting angle (I've seen razor blades > < mounted in a holder for this) and lubricated with glycerine. > > You can if you have the right tools. Grinding is easier for most to do. > I make TU58 drive wheels using thickwall rubber tube or tygon and mount > the assembled result on an old tu58 motor and "grind" on a bench grinder. > I get a good round smooth surface, minimal setup. The hub used is the > one with the tire turned to goo, with the goo removed. I say it depends on what you have to do. I've reworked wheels and tires for obsolete reel to reel (audio) decks and vcr's by drilling a hole, gluing in the old shaft, and then trimming down the block to close shape of a circle with a pocket knife. I then chuck the shaft in a drill that's fixed to a bench and then use a file at first and then an emery board to smooth it. Whatever works - that's the solution. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 14:33:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: PC-68K In-Reply-To: <35C605C3.555483DD@wi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, James Pryor wrote: > I have 2 of these XT bus boards, plus a PC-68K MMIO daughterboard. > They are copyright 1985/1986 by N.J. Costanzo & TLM Systems, Inc. > 1-meg on-board, smartwatch, no cpu or roms > > Can anyone provide additional information re: > original use, availability of roms, system software? I have one of the PC-68K XT bus boards also. Mine came complete with CPU and ROMS (27128). The CPU is an EF68000P10, and the ROMs have it looking for OS/9 to boot from. I do not have an operating system for it, nor know what the intent was. Some prior efforts to find that information was unproductive. > Any information appreciated. 'Taint much, Jim! - don From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:35:15 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808031935.AA05942@world.std.com> < I'm surprised by this. I'd thought about ways of linking any number < of old PCs at up to 2000 foot distances, and thought about recreating a 2000ft is within the capability of RS422 at data rates that are in the megabit range. There are other simple solutions like RS423 at low data rates. The DEC mill used to have many central systems that often were remote from the users by as many as 6 floors vertically and several hundred feet horizontally. (Royalt was ML11/M1 and our group was ML3-6/A1) we still ran 4800 or 9600 serial over the 500+ feet of wire of the standard dual twisted pairs of phone co wire. The biggest problem was the possibility of ground loops. With care that's can be avoided though RS422 (balanced differential) can deal with that as can RS485. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 14:35:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808031935.AA06056@world.std.com> < No, I was thinking about differences in ground potential between the < two buildings, static electricity, lightning strikes, that sort of < thing. All the canonical reasons why you wouldn't want to pull < Ethernet coax through that conduit. Use thick eithernet wire as its coax and uses ground and everything uses an isolated interface to it. AUI is imune to ground loops and can be burried. The other approach is RS422/485 type interconnect as it is differntial. Myself I'd sink several peices of weather proof coax and build on that using AUI (thick eithenet). If you have a choice go underground as air trips invice lightining. Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 3 12:45:10 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Thanks... Message-ID: <199808031936.PAA00212@charity.harvard.net> Thanks to everyone that was helping solve our PDP-11 boot problems but it seems that part of the problem was the fact that the backplane was giving out (it actually went up in smoke on friday night while we were playing with it, as did the front panel to my IMSAI, what a night that was). So again, thanks... Tony Dellett PS: If anyone in the Massachusetts/New Hampshire area has a spare RX01 that they wouldn't mind parting with, we have alot of Q-Bus cards that need a backplane :) Tony From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Aug 3 15:03:25 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13376903106.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [IMP?] That means Interface Messaging Prcessor. For connecting things to the ARPAnet. Not sure what it did, but it's mentioned in the ITS arcana... ------- From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 3 15:15:21 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Aug 3, 98 02:39:46 pm Message-ID: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> I wrote: > > I have to say, though, that I'm not surprised at the lack of classic > > networking gear on the open market. Most of this stuff is big, old and > > slow. Then William Donzelli wrote: > Hmmmm...big, old, and slow, you say. Sounds like many PDP-11s and VAXen I > know! Yes, but a 400lb VAX is much more exciting than a 9600 baud leased-line modem that weighs 1/30 as much. I only have a little bit of interesting data comm hardware, the best of which is an ASR33 with built-in 110 baud dataset. It terminates in a three-wire POTS line - red, green and yellow, presumably for ring voltage to auto answer and turn on. When you send it an EOT (CTRL-D), it turns off. The modem is in the pedestal... the whole pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. -ethan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:19:33 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: In the "I have my suspicions" dept. In-Reply-To: <13376903106.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > [IMP?] > > That means Interface Messaging Prcessor. > For connecting things to the ARPAnet. > > Not sure what it did, but it's mentioned in the ITS arcana... Back in the day before standards (late 60s) the designers of the Arpanet decided they needed a uniform network interface that all the different computer systems of the time could connect to. The IMP was that interface. It was actually a computer itself that acted as a gateway, passing data to and from the host computer from the nascent Internet. It handled the protocol conversion, etc. It was the equivalent of a NIC today. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From william at ans.net Mon Aug 3 15:28:19 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > Yes, but a 400lb VAX is much more exciting than a 9600 baud leased-line > modem that weighs 1/30 as much. I only have a little bit of interesting > data comm hardware, the best of which is an ASR33 with built-in 110 baud > dataset. It terminates in a three-wire POTS line - red, green and yellow, > presumably for ring voltage to auto answer and turn on. When you send it > an EOT (CTRL-D), it turns off. The modem is in the pedestal... the whole > pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 > baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. Aggreed, but a Hayes modem (or any modem) is about as simple as you are going to get. What about old switches, muxes, and routers? Simple modems they aint! Anyway, I think old datacom and networking equipment is at least as interesting as the disk and tape drives we love so much. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:29:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808032015.QAA03725@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > pedestal. I cannot concieve of a time in my own lifetime when a 1200 > baud Hayes modem will be considered exciting. In 20 years (or less) when everyone has a terabyte going to their desktop. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 15:38:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > Aggreed, but a Hayes modem (or any modem) is about as simple as you are > going to get. What about old switches, muxes, and routers? Simple modems > they aint! > > Anyway, I think old datacom and networking equipment is at least as > interesting as the disk and tape drives we love so much. People generally like to collect what they know, and what was dear to them as they grew up. Many people never had exposure to datacom equipment beyond simple modems. Therefore, its a matter of disinterest due to ignorance of the technology. I'd love to start collecting 60s and 70s era datacom equipment, but I find it hard to identify anything I come across. I'm going to start making a better effort though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:45:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 2, 98 10:37:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/6f360212/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:48:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808030626.CAA22607@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 3, 98 02:26:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/3ad776c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 13:34:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 2, 98 10:17:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/8a1be364/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 15:34:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 3, 98 09:49:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 949 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980803/314d266c/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 17:04:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > public network? I've got a couple of old BT modems that seem to be > > > designed to only work on a private, internal network (at least that's > > > what the manuals imply), so maybe line voltages are different or > > > whatever... > > > > Line voltages would not (and could not) differ unless it was some short > > haul modem. The higher layer protocols might though. > > Hmm... In the UK it's possible (I believe) to get a point-to-point link > from BT (The Telephone Company) with no 'battery' on the line. That's to > say that the line is electrically dead, and that you don't get 48V DC > across it. Hmmm. Well, I wonder about this. I know such services exist in the US as well, but they still at least have battery on the line. I would wonder what good a dry point-to-point connection through the telco would be over several miles, where the resistance in that length of wire would absorb whatever voltage you put on it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Aug 3 17:20:52 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > > > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > > > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > > > is you need to take a very light cut... > > > > With a very sharp cutting tool! > > That always helps :-). I would also grind a shallower angle on the > top/front edge, to reduce the tendency for it to dig it. A tool that digs > in to the rubber would pull it away from the spindle, and cause it to end > up undersize (and rough!). > [snipsnip] A trick I have used when faced with turning rubber, neoprene, and the like, is to fix the piece strongly to whatever spindle you are using, (lathe, mill, 1/4" drill motor, etc) and then freeze it solid with either liquid nitrogen or 'freeze mist' from an electronics parts store... both substances are readily available... LN2 is much more enviro-friendly, though... and a liter of it is wonderful fun if you're into science-pranks and demos. I especially like the super-conducting levitating magnets from Edmund Scientific.. At any rate, frozen rubber resembles wood and can be worked the same. Cheers John > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 3 17:39:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher Message-ID: <199808032239.AA09832@world.std.com> < Hmmm. Well, I wonder about this. I know such services exist in the US < well, but they still at least have battery on the line. I would wonder < what good a dry point-to-point connection through the telco would be ove < several miles, where the resistance in that length of wire would absorb < whatever voltage you put on it. The service exists, I used to use it 25 years ago for remote base stations (radio service). It was called a dry copper pair and went point to point with NOTHING else. It had to be that way as you would put audio on it and DC on it to either key the transmitter or disable to tone squelch. the average circuit resistance ws about 1kohm/mile. So the remote end didn't sense voltage but instead sensed current (~8-9ma) and polarity to do switching. Audio was put on the pair the normal way (differential via transformer). Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:11:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Thanks... In-Reply-To: <199808031936.PAA00212@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 3, 98 01:45:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 805 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/2e2f9439/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:16:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <9808031907.ZM6435@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from "Pete Turnbull" at Aug 3, 98 06:07:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/86608266/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:23:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980803132010.00e95100@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 3, 98 01:20:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/6628bf3d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:25:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 3, 98 11:24:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 595 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/d037da6a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:31:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: old modems & a packet switcher In-Reply-To: <199808031935.AA06056@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Aug 3, 98 03:35:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1069 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/e6a6b175/attachment.ksh From timhotze at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:11:51 1998 From: timhotze at hotmail.com (Tim Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Hi, MS Softcard Message-ID: <19980804001151.26773.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi everyone. Just to let you know, I'm not dead. (Boos, hissing, please.) Anyway, I found a MS Softcard for an A2. Serial# (if it matters) 2-189 18227. Full docs, all disks, packaging, etc. Now, for someone who has 2 or more: What's a good garage-sale-old-used-hardware price???? (It's a frends, but I want to pay hm to remove the guilt.) Pleae reply to worldsfate@geocities.com (Yes, that's not this addresss, but I can't get my HPC to send from it.) Thanks for any info. Tim D. Hotze ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 19:09:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 3, 98 03:20:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1085 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/6cbfa588/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 19:25:40 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 3, 19:45) References: Message-ID: <9808040125.ZM7271@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 3, 19:45, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: Oh heck it booted > > > Hmmm.. I have a small lathe (IMHO _all_ computer preservationists need > > > one, like you need a 'scope, logic analyser, soldering iron, etc, right > > > ;-)). But rubber is not the easiest material to turn to size - my guess > > > is you need to take a very light cut... > > > > With a very sharp cutting tool! > > That always helps :-). I would also grind a shallower angle on the > top/front edge, to reduce the tendency for it to dig it. A tool that digs > in to the rubber would pull it away from the spindle, and cause it to end > up undersize (and rough!). Actually, you want exactly the opposite if you're cutting it -- a very acute angle, so the rubber is sliced thinly with minimal effort. You want to slice it rather in the manner you would do wood turning with a turning chisel. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 3 19:30:31 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:45 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Oh heck it booted" (Aug 4, 0:25) References: Message-ID: <9808040130.ZM7323@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 4, 0:25, Tony Duell wrote: > Am I the younger generation? (I date from about the time of the PDP12). I > certainly know what a cork borer is - I've used them on many occasions. > What on earth do people use now to fit glass tubing into corks? They don't use corks -- they use pre-bored rubber bungs. However, the easiest and safest way to put a thermometer into a bung is to insert a borer first, slide the thermometer down the borer, and remove the borer leaving the thermometer in place. One of the first things I was taught on the lab techs course years ago (the second thing was how to deal with a kid who has a thermometer impaled in the hand). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 2 15:55:50 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Archive board In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980801233609.00e76db0@mail.wa.jps.net> References: <199808020518.BAA10686@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199808040058.UAA21063@smtp.interlog.com> On 1 Aug 98 at 23:36, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 01:15 01-08-98 +0000, you wrote: > > > A while back there was a thread re an Archive board ID but I've been > unable to > >find it in my archives. It seemed at the time similiar to a card I have. > > It's an 8 bit card with a 25 pin F port and a 50 pin internal; it's got > an FCC > >ID # EAX6GP-SC400S which I haven't checked yet since most of the time > > Ah. I recognize it. That's an SC400 QIC-02 controller. It should be able > to support just about any QIC-02 drive (not limited to those made by Archive). > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thanks guys. Now all I need is a QIC-02 tape drive. :^)) Anyone have a need for this board ? I imagine it works. Free with shipping costs. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 3 20:08:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Hi, MS Softcard In-Reply-To: <19980804001151.26773.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Tim Hotze wrote: > Hi everyone. Just to let you know, I'm not dead. (Boos, hissing, > please.) Anyway, I found a MS Softcard for an A2. Serial# (if it > matters) 2-189 18227. Full docs, all disks, packaging, etc. Now, for > someone who has 2 or more: What's a good garage-sale-old-used-hardware > price???? (It's a frends, but I want to pay hm to remove the guilt.) > Pleae reply to worldsfate@geocities.com (Yes, that's not this addresss, > but I can't get my HPC to send from it.) $10 oughtta do it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 3 21:17:57 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody References: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> Message-ID: <35C66F55.BB341780@cnct.com> John Foust wrote: > The parody mentions his kids - week before last, I bumped into > Alex Pournelle walking around in one of the computer history > exhibits (where one of my Teraks was on display) at the > ACM SIGGRAPH computer graphics convention in Orlando. > > For many years while I was working as a freelance writer, I'd see > Jerry in person at press events at computer shows, and I knew many > of his assistants / toadies. Ugh. It was frightening what he was > given, and how little time he spent with it, and how little he > understood it. Remember that Jerry's column used to be called "The User's Column". not "The Engineer's Column". His perspective is on "using" the damned stuff, and the stuff that doesn't die in infancy due to hardware failure or simple unusability he will try for several months. So will his staff (who are _not_ toadies). I've known Jerry for over twenty years (a side effect of being a fellow member of the Los Angeles Science Fiction Society). He's damned honest. I've had _serious_ arguments with him over the years, about politics (he's in favor of limiting government, I'm in favor of eliminating it completely), computers (I hate the Wintel standard, he recognized that the world would spend time in that Purgatory whether he or I liked it or not -- I showed him the TRS-80 Model 100 when it was less than a week on the market, due to his bad experience with the Mod One Radio Shack sold him, he bought a NEC 8201), space development (he [despite evidence] still thought the government has a role to play, although in recent years his writing has been less pro-NASA -- I haven't had a good cathartic argument with him since I moved to and got trapped on the east coast 6.5 years ago). Be aware that we are not friends -- our politics and willingness to express them sort of prevent that. But Jerry won't say something good about a product unless it works and he won't say something bad unless it _really_ fucks up. > > I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch > of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." What other writers are in that branch? Reply privately unless it means old computers. Or at least send me a pointer to that summary, as I suspect that it includes a number of writers I get along with far better than Jerry. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 2 17:39:13 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Monitors Message-ID: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> Well this seems to be my time for monitors. I just picked up a Taxan Multi Vision 770 Plus for $1.00 and an Atari Hi-res SM124 for $5. Last week I got a NEC Multisync JC1401P3A and Compaq VGA mono curbside, and acquired a Mac+ adapter for an earlier find, a Radius 15RAM1 Full page Display. Both Multisyncs have analogue<> TTL and mono-color switches and the Taxan has an overscan switch as well as a bunch of other controls. My main monitors have been a Nec Multi 2A for most of my VGA machines and a Commodore 1802 for my 8bits, not to mention my trusty Atari monitors with the bloody 13 pin connectors. I feel innundated :^)) Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on older monitors on the net or a newsgroup FAQ ? Is there a definitive textbook ? I have one, "PC&PS/2 Video Systems" by Richard Wilton but it deals mainly with software programming issues. BTW there was also 6 DEC Rainbow A and A+ in the same thrift for $1 each. No K-B or Monitors. I debated it with myself but have a RB 100B and a spare 100A and I'm already at minimal space, so I passed. They also had 2 Epson Equity's which I know ziltch about. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Tue Aug 4 07:55:15 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Sun-2/100U The Next Chapter Message-ID: Hi again, Thanks for all the help with getting the thing booted, I managed to get the miniroot installed on xy0 (an aging Fujitsu M2322K on a Xylogics 450(451?) controller), and it boots quite happily off the miniroot into single user mode, the SunOS install program is quite advanced for 1986, and very easy to use! Just select the packages and put the tapes in when asked. Along the way i've noticed that one of my memory cards seems to be faulty, it currently has 7mb of ram (4mb + 1mb + 1mb +1mb), after numerous "Protection Bus Faults" I removed all but the 4mb card, and all is fine, i was able to up it to 6 and isolate the faulty card. I'll probably end up replacing most of the 4164 chips on that board, i think I have a box full of them somewhere :) The only problem I seem to be having is that, the first time I installed SunOS, when it goes to boot multiuser, it stops at "Using 100 buffers containing xxxxx bytes of memory" then appears to write continously to the HDD, (I verified this by clicking the WP switch on, and it dumped errors everywhere). it's not the rc files, i'll have a go at reinstalling SunOS again and see. There appears to be another problem, I don't have the manufacturers bad block data for the drive, and as such when i reformatted the drive it has no bad block info.... Now I did try "scan" in the diags to rebuild the bad block table, at which point it filled the bad block table and declared the drive unusable. I am slightly dubious of this, as the format/verify then failed where it had worked previously. Resetting the drive returned things to a sane state, and the format/verify completed correctly... any ideas? On the up side, the Tapemaster 1/2" tape and the ethernet interface is working, when it does finally work it'll be plugged into the university LAN....should make an interesting curiosity :) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Mon Aug 3 23:53:18 1998 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | | | || || || | / | | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | | ________________________ __| |_____| | | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | | H | | \ \__| |___| | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | | H | nologies, people | | | \ | | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | | H | / | | | | | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | | H _________________________ | | o | | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | | H |o \__/ | / | | | | | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | | H | | / H | | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | | H / | | / H | | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | | H H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 3 23:56:35 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, John Lawson wrote: > [snipsnip] > > A trick I have used when faced with turning rubber, neoprene, and > the like, is to fix the piece strongly to whatever spindle you are > using, (lathe, mill, 1/4" drill motor, etc) and then freeze it solid > with either liquid nitrogen or 'freeze mist' from an electronics > parts store... both substances are readily available... LN2 is much > more enviro-friendly, though... and a liter of it is wonderful fun > if you're into science-pranks and demos. I especially like the > super-conducting levitating magnets from Edmund Scientific.. > > At any rate, frozen rubber resembles wood and can be worked the same. I recall one of the machinists doing that when I was a summer intern in a machine shop whilst in high school. Seems like I took the excess LN2 and froze a chap's sponge rubber chair cushion. It turned to dust, of course, when he sat on it. - don From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 4 00:11:27 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Freezer spray I have - and use a lot. It's essential for tracing > intermittant electrical faults. Liquid nitrogen I don't have, but I am > told it's not that hard to get or that expensive. Mind you, I don't hold > out any hope of getting it in the UK at the moment. For example, I wanted > some dilute hydrochloric acid recently, and was told it couldn't be > supplied because 'it's toxic'. Over here, it is commonly available for etching/cleaning swimming pools - at least on the left coast. But we have the same high degree of idiocy, also! - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 01:22:55 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 3, 98 10:11:27 pm Message-ID: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 4 01:37:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted References: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <35C6AC33.810A295@bbtel.com> Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe he was referring to the H2SO4, sulfuric acid. Liquid nitrogen would probably be too cold and crack the outer concrete/tiles. I used to love taking stuff into liquid nitrogen in school and then tossing it against the wall - what a mess a green grape made. This was until someone got the neat idea to use a mouse...yuk Don't they still sell a cooling spray for tracing heat related faults? I have a case of it (maybe less) that I bought at Tandy on sale some time back and it lasts a while if you use it carefully. I bought it with the oncoming of all the BS with restrictions on certain compounds putting holes in our outer atmosphere and because it was about 1/3 of normal cost. I don't have a TRS catalog handy but even if the stuff I have is off market, they should have suitable substitute available. I'm sure MCM, Mouser, Digikey and others must have something. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Aug 4 04:04:20 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland ???? Obviously... you've no pool experience. Brief instructions follow: 1. Confirm pool *is* dirty, ie. do hitherto un-named lifeforms show up dead and entangled in the skimmer? Do you discover exobiologist skulking around at night? Yes, it needs cleaning! 2. Place four 10-inch forged eye-bolts on anchor trees equidistant from each other in the water and spaced near the periphery of the pool. 3. Introduce LN2 into sidewall coils, or over surface, until entire pool is frozen and telemetry reports pool core temp of -30C. 4. With crane, using beam spreaders and grapples, lift frozen dirty pool contents gently out of the pool. (Caution: heavy!) 5. Wrap pool contents in plastic, secure tightly, and swing crane over to deposit pool contents beside driveway for regular trash disposal. Be neat and tidy... be considerate of your nieghbors. 6. Refill pool with sparkling clean fresh water. 7. Enjoy! I mean, that's what *I* do..... Cheers John > From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Aug 4 06:01:47 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Sun-2/100U The Next Chapter In-Reply-To: from Karl Maftoum at "Aug 4, 98 12:55:15 pm" Message-ID: <199808041101.HAA11369@crobin.home.org> > Along the way i've noticed that one of my memory cards seems to be faulty, > it currently has 7mb of ram (4mb + 1mb + 1mb +1mb), after numerous > "Protection Bus Faults" I removed all but the 4mb card, and all is fine, i > was able to up it to 6 and isolate the faulty card. I'll probably end up > replacing most of the 4164 chips on that board, i think I have a box full > of them somewhere :) You actually may not have any bad boards. If you look over the older archives of the Suns-At-Home mailing list (www.net-kitchen.com/~sah), you see this problem referred to quite a bit. IIRC, you may just have to live with the current situation or try to find a different board to replace the "bad" one. Either way, 7mb is the max because of the video architecture. <<>> From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 4 03:11:53 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you are interested contact him directly, not me. ----- Forwarded message ----- Return-Path: Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 From: will X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Subject: IIgs for sale I do have the following: * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with Authenticity certificate * 5.25" drive * 3.5" 800K drive * 52 meg hard disk * 1 meg Apple memory expansion board. * Apple ImageWriter II * Keningston System Saver IIgs * SCSI card with DMA and caching * AppleWorks 3, PrintShop IIgs, many TimeOut add-ons to AppleWorks * All manuals and cables (I have some, but not all, boxes), monitor, ADB keyboard, and ADB mouse If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, please pass the word on. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 08:58:55 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Thanks... Message-ID: <199808041413.KAA04102@charity.harvard.net> > > > > Thanks to everyone that was helping solve our PDP-11 boot > problems but > > it seems that part of the problem was the fact that the > backplane was > > giving out (it actually went up in smoke on friday night > while we were > > The backplane, or the power cable to it? I've never seen a backplane > smoke - with a DEC PSU, even a dead short between +5V and > Ground doesn't > normally melt anything. What on earth were you doing with it? > It was the power supply. Being old, it decided to go boom. > > PS: If anyone in the Massachusetts/New Hampshire area has a > spare RX01 > > that they wouldn't mind parting with, we have alot of Q-Bus > cards that > > need a backplane :) > > An RX01 (unless I am very much mistaken) is a dual floppy drive. It > doesn't contain a backplane, and you certainly can't plug q-bus cards > into it. I don't see how this would help. > My bad. We have a real PDP 11/23 backplane and we're looking for an RX01 to boot it from. We have a whole ton of 8" disks and these are the only disks we have with an OS. Tony From kevan at heydon.org Tue Aug 4 09:45:49 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. I got this 'offer' too, so he must be doing the rounds with it. The price certainly made me smile. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Aug 4 10:25:27 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <1998Aug04.112346.1767.126111@smtp.itgonline.com> I cannot attend the VCF but would like a shot at winning the IMSAI 8080 anyway. If I buy a $5.00 admission ticket and mail in the stub, would I be entered into the drawing for the IMSAI 8080? On the wrong coast- Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/4/98 12:55 AM ___________________________________________________________________________ | | | .================================================================. | | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | | H | | | \ \ | | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | | H | | | \ | | | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | | H | | \ \ | | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | | H | |\ `----o | | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | | H / Santa Clara, California | | | H | | | | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | | H | | | | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | | H | | | | | | | | | | / | | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | | H / / | `-o \ \ || | | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | | H ____________________________ | | || | | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | | |__________________________________| | | | | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | | | || || || | / | | | | | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | | o ________________________ \______| |___o | | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | | ________________________ __| |_____| | | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | | | || || || | \ | | | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | | | \__________________________________ | | | o o________ \ | | | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | | // | o__ \ | | | | | | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | | H | | \ \__| |___| | | | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | | H | nologies, people | | | \ | | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | | H | / | | | | | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | | H _________________________ | | o | | | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | | H |o \__/ | / | | | | | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | | H | | / H | | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | | H / | | / H | | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | | H H | | \\ // | | `=====================================================================' | | | | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | |___________________________________________________________________________| Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details [Last web page update: 07/26/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug04.005550.1767.55416; Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:55:50 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id VAA16815; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:34 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id VAA63494 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:26 -0700 Received: from jasmine.psyber.com (siconic@jasmine.psyber.com [207.135.192.16]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id VAA17724 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (siconic@localhost) by jasmine.psyber.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21912 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:19 -0700 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Vintage Computer Festival To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: ClassicCmp X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 10:20:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: S-100 RAM Card Message-ID: <199808041526.LAA14735@charity.harvard.net> Anyone out there have a spare S-100 RAM card (any size) that they would be willing to part with? I need one for the IMSAI, cant test it properly without one :) Tony From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 11:01:20 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041612.MAA21075@charity.harvard.net> I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at $200! Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 4:12 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? > > > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > ----- Forwarded message ----- > Return-Path: > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 > From: will > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) > Subject: IIgs for sale > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with > Authenticity certificate > * 5.25" drive > * 3.5" 800K drive > * 52 meg hard disk > * 1 meg Apple memory expansion board. > * Apple ImageWriter II > * Keningston System Saver IIgs > * SCSI card with DMA and caching > * AppleWorks 3, PrintShop IIgs, many TimeOut add-ons to AppleWorks > * All manuals and cables (I have some, but not all, boxes), > monitor, > ADB keyboard, and ADB mouse > > If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my > price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, > please pass the word on. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Aug 4 11:55:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041612.MAA21075@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980804125534.007b6510@netpath.net> At 12:01 PM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other >drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at >$200! I think maybe the "." key on this guy's keyboard is erratic. Should be $65.00! From franke at sbs.de Tue Aug 4 14:15:48 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> > > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with > > Authenticity certificate >> If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my >> price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, >> please pass the word on. USD 6500 - Maybe for an Apple 1 including box. > I think this guy is on crack, ludes, hashish, pot, heroin, and any other > drugs you might dream up. I've passed on systems like this priced at > $200! > Tony 200 ? thats a lot. And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 12:12:40 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody In-Reply-To: <35C66F55.BB341780@cnct.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19980803104535.00cc3100@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804121240.00cd41c0@pc> At 10:17 PM 8/3/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > >Remember that Jerry's column used to be called "The User's Column". >not "The Engineer's Column". His perspective is on "using" the >damned stuff, and the stuff that doesn't die in infancy due to >hardware failure or simple unusability he will try for several >months. If I wanted to hear the travails of clueless users, I'd get a job in tech support. JP's "experience" with new products (as in the parody, having unlimited amounts of support, from the techs to the president of said company) was entirely out-of-this-world and arguably not useful to Byte's readers. It's hard enough to pick the right bleeding-edge products when you get opinions from smart people. But our exchange here perhaps shows why the editors loved him as a columnist - he stated strong opinions, and he caused strong reactions. >> I recently saw a summary of the mindset of the Pournellian branch >> of science fiction as "Space is like Texas, only bigger." > >What other writers are in that branch? Reply privately unless it >means old computers. Or at least send me a pointer to that summary, I believe it was in Greg Benford's (?) book review of Tom Disch's (?) overview of the SF field, in this month's Reason magazine. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 11:53:22 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Compaq In-Reply-To: <8525664A.004FB71D.00@BOS-MTA01.SWEC.COM> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804115322.02290a00@pc> At 10:38 AM 7/23/98 -0400, bill.sheehan@stoneweb.com wrote: >Reminds me of a trick Penn Jillette (of the magician duo Penn & Teller) >thought somebody (somebody other than *him*) should try on their laptops >next time they pass through an airport: > >AUTOEXEC.BAT >echo ARMING.... Many years ago, P&T's text-based BBS had a similar trick, proceeding through a set of menus that warned you again and again that choosing this menu would format your hard disk. As I recall, at the end you got a message that congratulated your skeptical powers, knowing there was no way they could do that... (I know, there's the old reprogram the ANSI.SYS function key trick...) - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:04:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: cable modems In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980729152136.264f75f4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804130428.00f37430@pc> At 04:25 PM 7/29/98 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote: > >Most interesting was a Cable Demodulator. Yep, not a MOdulator/DEModulator >(MODEM), but just a Demodulator. Apparently, TCI at one time sent out a >free signal on the cable that could be read by anyone with a PC and one of >these boxes. So, anyone know if they still do that, and what software one >would need? One of my favorite "before its time" technologies. I think I bought mine for about $120 in the late 80s, a version that worked on the Amiga as well as the PC, and I think they had an Apple II version, too. I'd bet a doughnut it qualifies for the ten-year-rule. I had TCI once, and now Marcus, and the signal was present on both. I think it was present on Rogers in Canada, too. The company name slips my mind, and I'd have to hunt in the basement to find the details - maybe General Datacom. They offered a $20/month service to get 15-minute-delayed stock quotes, which required regular reactivation pinging of a cartridge that plugged in the back. Other than that, it was remarkable for its time! 9600 baud continuous, uncompressed, quite delightful in the days of 2400 baud modems. They had a packeted proprietary protocol. In the stream, you'd get various second-rate wire service news stories and syndicated columns. They could also send files - you'd see a menu of files that were going to be sent over the next 24 hours, and select which you wanted, and it would grab them and store to your hard disk. There were message boards, but the uplink was done by long-distance call to an incredibly lame BBS system running on some kind of mainframe. I think they were aiming it at the educational market as well as stock market players. Come to think of it, I remember late-night TV commercials for it - maybe it was called Express PC? I think they missed the boat. I think with better software, they could've made lots of money selling these boxes to all the people who were using BBSes at the time. Instead of a sole national head-end, city or regional co-adminstration would've made it more interesting. It was "push" technology ahead of its time. To me, the big selling point today would be the high-speed potential of cable, combining with advertiser-supported content and a web-based back-link. (I know what DirecPC is, BTW.) Wouldn't a $100 gizmo that connects your PC to cable, and that could refill a couple hundred spare megs every day with interesting content (movies, cached news web sites, top-100 shareware, demos, etc.) seem like a great deal? But no, the big cable companies would rather charge $20 a month for that, and require a set-top box that wasted its energies (and parts cost) trying to be a standalone device. I seem to remember that it was only in the last two-three years that the "carrier" light stopped working on mine. I left it connected to the cable for the longest time. I called the company and they said they were discontinuing the device with no upgrade offer for me. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:07:37 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <9806239012.AA901223511@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804130737.00f402e0@pc> At 12:50 PM 7/23/98 GMT, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > >123 789 >456 vs. 456 ? >789 123 > 0 0 > >Which came first? I believe the calculator layout, and I remember hearing an explanation that Bell chose the *opposite* layout to prevent people from confusing the two devices, and/or that they did usability testing to choose the opposite layout. Makes no sense to me. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 4 13:10:38 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Transputer documentation required In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980804131038.00f4f640@pc> At 02:00 PM 7/19/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: > >Is this the same Microway that used to make Flicker Fixer boards for Amigas? Yes. The FF was developed by an independent fellow named Pete Selverstone, who had the hardware manufactured and sold through Microway, who seemed to dabble in a number of esoteric devices at the time. - John From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 4 08:21:13 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <199808041717.MAA05833@trailingedge.com> On 4 Aug 98 at 19:16, Hans Franke wrote: > And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? Your Mileage May Vary I guess in Europe that would be YKMV. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From erd at infinet.com Tue Aug 4 13:17:45 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 4, 98 07:16:48 pm Message-ID: <199808041817.OAA18337@user2.infinet.com> > > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition > > 200 ? thats a lot. It did have a hard disk. I just paid $75 USD for an IDE64, mostly for the novelty. It didn't come with a disk, not that disks <100Mb aren't virtually free these days. > And: I know crack, pot, etc. but whats YMMV ? > > Gruss > H. "Your Milage May Vary", a phrase common in '70's car ads when gas milage because a selling point. It's "weasel words" to let a marketer quote a statistic without committing to it. It means that *you* might not have results as good as these, but that's not our fault. -ethan P.S. - I wouldn't pay $200 for a IIgs either. From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 4 13:56:00 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: <199808040622.AAA16617@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jim wrote: > Cleaning swimming pools? with liquid nitrogen? I'm having difficulty > picturing this process, not having a pool, could someone enlighten me? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hardly! Cleaning/etching swimming pools with dilute hydrochloric (muriatic) acid. - don From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:14:25 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041700.TAA01149@marina.fth.sbs.de> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 4, 98 07:16:48 pm Message-ID: <199808042014.OAA21400@calico.litterbox.com> YMMV - your milage may vary -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:15:31 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Oh heck it booted In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Aug 4, 98 11:56:00 am Message-ID: <199808042015.OAA21415@calico.litterbox.com> Ahhh. Okay. The idea of mixing liquid nitrogen with water struck me as a mighty strange way to go about cleaning a pool. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 15:17:49 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041817.OAA18337@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 4, 98 02:17:45 pm Message-ID: <199808042017.OAA21444@calico.litterbox.com> $200 for a fully loaded GS, with a monitor, a couple floppy drives, and what not isn't bad at all. Add a hard disk and it's a good deal. BTW, ROM Os are practically worthless however because they won't run GSOS 6.01. You can still buy the upgrade roms from alltech for 29 bucks. All money mentioned in this article is in US dollars. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Tue Aug 4 15:41:22 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <199808042047.QAA27417@charity.harvard.net> I'm not saying it's not worth $200, just that I wouldn't pay that much for one :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 4:18 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? > > > $200 for a fully loaded GS, with a monitor, a couple floppy > drives, and what > not isn't bad at all. Add a hard disk and it's a good deal. > BTW, ROM Os are > practically worthless however because they won't run GSOS > 6.01. You can > still buy the upgrade roms from alltech for 29 bucks. All > money mentioned > in this article is in US dollars. :) > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@calico.litterbox.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 4 12:45:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 2, 98 10:39:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/a46185f0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 4 15:36:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Thanks... In-Reply-To: <199808041413.KAA04102@charity.harvard.net> from "Dellett, Anthony" at Aug 4, 98 09:58:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980804/b02ed0ad/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Aug 4 17:30:33 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 Message-ID: <007f01bdbff7$98e95de0$c775fea9@mainoffice> On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:42:40 -0400 (EDT), Ethan Dicks wrote: >>How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load >>NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network >>at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of >>debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the >>features your schedule permits. Do you remember where in the source tree this is? I don't have Linux installed, but I have the CD lying around here somewhere. {snip} >>comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. Batteries not included...may explode if heated...contents may have settled during shipping...keep away from open flame...may cause cancer in mice...do not operate heavy machinery after using... :-) Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Aug 4 20:42:46 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Help...? References: Message-ID: <35C7B896.57E1A9B2@idirect.com> >Rax wrote: > (community) My grandfather has 20 years of his life's work stored on a 1982 > Pitney Bowes Word Processor 6000 and the whole thing has gone kaput. It > used those large double sided, double density diskettes (also copyright > 1982). All I have is the reorder number on these diskettes: 169501. I need > to get the stuff on paper someohow so I can scan it all into the new PC I'm > getting him (unless it can be downloaded onto disk?). If you can tackle > this one, the machine is yours. Jerome Fine replies: I would need more information on the diskettes. Are they 8" floppies might they be compatible with the old original IBM format that was 1/4 Megabyte per side - called single density for a DEC RX02? The DEC RX01 used exactly that density. Note that these are soft sectored with only one index hole. The interleave would be of concern since each sector was only 128 bytes (if I remember correctly - 4 * 128 = 512 bytes per block). If anyone else thinks of or knows the exact floppy hardware details, please say so!! That is about all I could do with the existing DEC compatible equipment that I have access to from a friend. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From wjhl18 at webtv.net Tue Aug 4 20:48:19 1998 From: wjhl18 at webtv.net (james london) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 Message-ID: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! Jim From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Aug 4 20:08:36 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 References: <199808040702.AAA01760@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> > From: "Hans Franke" > Subject: CBM B500 > > Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, > I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace > nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. > > The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly > a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo > is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a > different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. > Sure it's not a P-500? I currently have mine (P-500) opened for Information Gathering, might well do some now... The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) > Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are > lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. > > The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way > before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line > was introducted in 1983. Could be a beta prototype or one recalled during the FCC proving. (Commodore had a run-in with the FCC concerning the B and P series computers...) > > Any Info would be usefull. > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 21:14:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Larry Anderson wrote: > From my understanding EVERY scrap of Commodore's information regarding the > B-128 line of computers went to the Chicago B-128 Users Group (a nice > arrangement made with Commodore). I talked briefly with the president of the > group several years back but have since lost touch with anyone in the group. > I hope one day someone with the B-128 info will surface on the 'net. Is the B128 rare? I'm pretty sure I have manuals for one. Basically a C64 in an Amiga box, right? -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 21:24:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Is the B128 rare? I'm pretty sure I have manuals for one. Basically a > C64 in an Amiga box, right? Nevermind. I'm think of the 128D. -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 4 22:11:08 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was it made? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement > Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 12:53 AM > > > ___________________________________________________________________________ > | | > | .================================================================. | > | // ______ o_ ___________ \\ | > | // / \ \ o o o o o o | ____ \ \\ | > | H / | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \\ | > | H / ____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|____|___ \ \ `=o | > | H | | | \ \ | > | H | | The Premier Event for Computer Enthusiasts is Back! | \ \__ | > | H | | | \ | | > | H o | V I N T A G E C O M P U T E R F E S T I V A L |__ \ o | > | H | | \ \ | > | H \ - VCF 2.0 - | \ `-o | > | H | |\ `----o | > | H | September 26-27, Santa Clara Convention Center | `-------o | > | H / Santa Clara, California | | > | H | | | > | H | Speakers, Exhibit and Flea Market | | > | H | | | > | H | O http://www.siconic.com/vcf | | > | H |_____________________________________________________| ____o | > | H | | | | | | | | | | / | > | H | | | | | | | | | |______/ | > | H============' | | | | | | | |_________________ | > | H / | | \ \ \ |_____________________ | | > | H / / | `-o \ \ || | > | H o___________/ / \______ \ \ || | > | H o \_____|____|___________________ || | > | H ____________________________ | | || | > | H | | | The S P E A K E R S | || | > | `=| Why would YOU come to the | __| |___|| | > | _| Vintage Computer Festival? | | | | | > | | |____________________________| | KEYNOTE SPEAKER | | | > | |__________________________________| | | | > | ________________________ ___|-Gordon Bell |__ | | > | | || || || | / | | | | > | .-| To Learn the History |--' | Father of the Mini-computer! | | | > | | |__||_||_||______________| | Mr. Bell will speak about | | | > | o ________________________ ___| his pioneering work on the |____| | > | | || || || | / | DEC PDP-1, PDP-8 and PDP-11 | | > | o-| For the Nostalgia |--' | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| | FEATURED SPEAKER | | > | o ________________________ \______| |___o | > | | | || || || | |-Ray Holt | | > | `-| To Hear the Speakers |-._____| | o | > | |__||_||_||______________| | Who really invented the | / | > | ________________________ ____| first microprocessor? Guess |___/ | > | | || || || |__/ | again. This designer of the | | > | .-|To Buy Vintage Computers|-------| JOLT and Synertek SYM-1 sin- |-----o | > | | |__||_||_||______________| | gle-board computers will re- | | > | o ________________________ ______| veal why computer history |_____ | > | | || || || |/ | may need to be re-written. | | | > | o-|For the Games & Contests|--. | | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| \___|-David Rutland | | | > | ________________________ __| |_____| | > | | || || || | | On the National Bureau of | | | > | o-|To Meet Other Collectors|-o | Standards Western Automatic | | | > | |__||_||_||______________|___ | Computer (SWAC). Mr. Rutland | | | > | ________________________ \___| worked under Harry Huskey to |__o | | > | | || || || | | help build this first com- | | | > | o-| To Meet the Pioneers |---. | puter west of the rockies. | | | > | |__||_||_||______________| \ | ____ O | | | > | ________________________ \ |____________/ \____________| | | > | | || || || | \ | | > | .-| For the Prizes! |----. \________________________________o | | > | | |__||_||_||______________| \ | | > | | \__________________________________ | | > | o o________ \ | | > | ,=============o \ ______________________________ | | | > | // | o__ \ | | | | | > | H ___________|________ \ \ |-Tom Geller | | | | > | H | | \ \__| |___| | | > | H \ Philosophy of the / \ | Whether you're into game | | | > | H | Vintage Computer |___ \ | consoles, handheld devices, | | | > | H | Festival... | \ \ | arcade machines or personal | | | > | H / \ \ \__| computers, there's a Mac- |_____| | > | H | The main mission | \ | based emulator for you. | | > | H | of the Vintage | \ | | | > | H | Computer Festival | \ |-Jim Willing | | > | H | is to promote the | \__| |____o | > | H | preservation of | | Jim will demonstrate ways in | | > | H | "obsolete" compu- |___ | which you can put computers, | | > | H | ters by allowing | \ | new and old, back to work in | | > | H | attendees to ex- | \_____| the classroom. Also, how to |___ | > | H | perience the tech- | | care for your old computers. | \ | > | H | nologies, people | | | \ | > | H | and stories that | |-Bruce Faust | | | > | H | embody the remark- | ______| |__o | | > | H | able tale of the | / | Bruce will tell you every- | | | > | H | computer revolu- | o' | thing you want to know about | | | > | H | tion. | | the Toshiba T1100, the first | o | | > | H |____________________| ___| "laptop" computer. |__/ | | > | H | / | | | | > | H o o______/ |-Manny Lemas | | | > | H _________________________ | | o | | > | H o__| VCF2 S P O N S O R S |___| Manny will discuss his work |__/ | | > | H | www.haggle.com | | in the early days of the | | | > | H____| Dr. Dobb's Journal | | microcomputer revolution, | | | > | H |_________________________| | including publication of the | | | > | H __| first microcomputer journal |_____| | > | H / | and his involvement with the | | | // | > | H ________ ________ / | Synertek SYM-1. | | | > | H |o \__/ | / | | | | > | H_____| |_/ __|-Philip Belben |___o | | > | H | Test your computer | o' | | | | > | H | history knowledge! | | Philip will be presenting a | o | > | H __| |__o | workshop on the pre-history | | > | H | Nerd Trivia | __| of the graphics workstation. |_____ | > | H | Challenge | o | | ____ O | H | > | H o___| |_/ | |__________/ \______________| H | > | H | Only at VCF 2.0! | / H | > | H | | / H | > | H _| - Also - |__/ ___________________o H | > | H / | | / H | > | H o' | A screening of | / __ ___ __________________ H | > | H __| vintage computer |____/ | |__| | | H | > | H / | sales and training | | |Someone lucky will|==-----H | > | H | | films from the | | | go home with an | H | > | H | __| 50s, 60s and 70s |__ | _ | | H | > | H | | by San Francisco | /| (_) | IMSAI 8080 |==--o H | > | H | | stock footage | / | | | H | > | H | o_| film archive |____/ | | See the VCF web | H | > | H o | Oddball Film+Video | | __ | site for details |==--o H | > | H |____________________| |__| |___|__________________| H | > | H H | > | \\ // | > | `=====================================================================' | > | | > | V2.0 rev 2 http://www.siconic.com/vcf (C) SICONIC 1998 | > |___________________________________________________________________________ | > > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details > [Last web page update: 07/26/98] > From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 22:47:40 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was > it made? The T1100 was Toshiba's first laptop, not *the* first laptop. I think the T1100 came out in 1986. Other laptops that have been called the "first": 1981 Epson HX-20 (first A4-style laptop) 1982 GRiD Compass (first clamshell laptop) 1983 Gavilan (Gwen Bell called this one the first laptop) 1983 TRS-80 Model 100 (M100 owners like to call this the "first") 1984 HP 110 (first battery powered clamshell?) 1984 DG/One (Data General says there's was first) -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 4 23:06:02 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808050408.AAA04292@gate.usaor.net> I didn't think it was the first. I have a Tandy Model 600, from 1985, and I *had* a model 100. I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not including the external SCSI 5.25" 360K floppy (there's no internal disk drive), which weighs at least an extra 15 lb.. These things were definitely NOT for the light traveler. I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS emulator. Mine is "fully loaded", with a 10 MB "Winchester Disk" (hard drive), 1 meg RAM (alot for then), a modem (not sure what speed. if any one knows, let me know), and an RS-232 serial port. The battery even holds a bit of a charge) I have another WLTC - w/ 10 MB Winchester Disk, 512k RAM, and the RS-232 serial port. If anyone is interested in it, make me an offer. All of the parts are good, but the power supply. There is a blown capacitor in it - easy fix. It also does not have an external AC-DC adapter. I'm currently using a Tyco racing pack on the one that works. I also don't have a battery, but can give plans to build one. Make me an offer + shipping. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Doug Yowza > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement > Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 11:47 PM > > The T1100 was Toshiba's first laptop, not *the* first laptop. I think the > T1100 came out in 1986. > > Other laptops that have been called the "first": > 1981 Epson HX-20 (first A4-style laptop) > 1982 GRiD Compass (first clamshell laptop) > 1983 Gavilan (Gwen Bell called this one the first laptop) > 1983 TRS-80 Model 100 (M100 owners like to call this the "first") > 1984 HP 110 (first battery powered clamshell?) > 1984 DG/One (Data General says there's was first) > > -- Doug > From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 4 23:12:18 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal References: <3.0.1.32.19980804130737.00f402e0@pc> Message-ID: <35C7DBA2.1442C80@cnct.com> John Foust wrote: > > At 12:50 PM 7/23/98 GMT, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > >123 789 > >456 vs. 456 ? > >789 123 > > 0 0 > > > >Which came first? > > I believe the calculator layout, and I remember hearing an > explanation that Bell chose the *opposite* layout to prevent > people from confusing the two devices, and/or that they > did usability testing to choose the opposite layout. > Makes no sense to me. Adding machines used the "calculator" layout several decades before there were push-button phones. For some reason I'll never understand :-) the early desktop calculator manufacturers used the layout so that they could sell them to the accountants who had been the single largest market for adding machines. And handheld calculators wound up following the pattern. Not unlike the continuing popularity of the QWERTY keyboard. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 4 23:18:53 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:46 2005 Subject: Maybe off-topic: low/no cost Soft-ICE for x86 References: <007f01bdbff7$98e95de0$c775fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <35C7DD2D.F8029D2@cnct.com> Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:42:40 -0400 (EDT), Ethan Dicks > wrote: > > >>How about dosemu under Linux? It's complete enough that we used to load > >>NDIS drivers and emulate a PC well enough to log into the Novell network > >>at work and read e-mail, etc., from DOS. I do not know the state of > >>debugging tools for dosemu, but it's copylefted - you can add in all the > >>features your schedule permits. > > Do you remember where in the source tree this is? I don't have Linux > installed, but I have the CD lying around here somewhere. > > {snip} > >>comment on its current state. Your milage may vary, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well, Caldera's distribution of Linux has had complete Novell connectivity from day one -- Noorda loaned them the startup money. That's why Caldera also has the Digital Research sources free for the downloading as well, they're fairly tight with Novell. (I've been alternating between Redhat and Caldera on my main machines for a goodly while now). -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 4 23:21:10 1998 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Off-topic informational anti-spam anecdotal In-Reply-To: <35C7DBA2.1442C80@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Aug 5, 98 00:12:18 am Message-ID: <199808050421.WAA24914@calico.litterbox.com> Adding machines established their keyboards before the phone. yes. In fact, if memory serves, the phone company deliberately changed the phone keypad layout because the original touchtone hardware couldn't respond as fast as experienced adding machine operators could punch keys. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 4 23:27:54 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> from "james london" at Aug 4, 98 09:48:19 pm Message-ID: <199808050427.VAA09145@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Jim: There was a Burroughs mainframe available free for the taking last November or December. Unfortunately it was in Australia. I corresponded with the fellow on behalf of a new cold-war era museum that is under development near Ottawa Ontario. You might contact the folks at http://www.diefenbunker.ca/indexe.htm and see if they had any luck with the Burroughs machine after I put them in touch with the fellow in Australia. They are looking for a 50-60s vintage Burroughs mainframe to install in the machine room of the bunker. I offered to coordinate shipping but did not hear back from either party afterwards. Perhaps the Australian machine was the incorrect model for them - they might be able to connect you with him to see if what he has meets your needs. Good luck, Kevin > > I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, > circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! > > Jim > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From yowza at yowza.com Tue Aug 4 23:28:02 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: <199808050408.AAA04292@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a > printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a laptop, though. > I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, > '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS > emulator. Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? -- Doug From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 5 00:23:10 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > I think I also have the first (correct me if I'm wrong) laptop with a > > printer. The Wang LapTop Computer (WLTC). It weighs about 16-20 lb., not > > I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in > printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's > which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. > I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a > laptop, though. It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided drives, unfortunately. - don > > I think the WLTC came out in '84 or '85 (not sure). Mine is date Dec. 24, > > '86. I think it runs on a PASCAL-based operating system, with an MS-DOS > > emulator. > > Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? > The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a > DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? > > -- Doug > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 00:56:39 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, David Williams wrote: > Well, I think the guy is on crack but YMMV. As I would not pay > anywhere near that much for this system, someone else might so if you > are interested contact him directly, not me. > > ----- Forwarded message ----- Return-Path: Date: > Mon, 03 Aug 1998 22:21:37 -0500 From: will > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Subject: IIgs for sale > > I do have the following: > > * Apple IIgs Limited Edition (signed by Steve Wozinak) with <...> > If you were looking for donations, I am sorry, but for the moment, my > price is $6500 plus shipping (insured). If you are not interested, > please pass the word on. David, why do you insult us like this? I should have you whacked just for relaying this message to the list :) PS. Not crack, but definitely a cocktail of acid, speed and a big dose of stupidity. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 07/26/98] From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 5 00:59:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > drives, unfortunately. OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody makes a similar obscure reference in the future. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:39:01 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, james london wrote: > I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, > circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! You mean besides a time machine? Keep looking...a lot. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:44:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: <199808050322.XAA26587@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I noticed that the T1100, was the "first" laptop computer. What year was > it made? No, it was the first "Laptop" computer (you got the quotes the other way around). You need to come to the VCF to hear Bruce Faust explain the distinction. The T1100 was circa 1986. Someone else with more general knowledge of it fill him in on the significance of the T1100. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 5 01:51:34 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > > drives, unfortunately. > > OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is > that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this > machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody > makes a similar obscure reference in the future. I smell web-advertising dollars here!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 08/03/98] From franke at sbs.de Wed Aug 5 09:14:45 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808051159.NAA02416@marina.fth.sbs.de> Finaly - I already thought nobody would care about ol' Commo' here :) >> Since I rediscovered a B500 in my junk some weeks ago, >> I'm searching for information. Until now i could trace >> nothing in the web or any magazine from that time. >> The Computer in question is a Commodore B500, Basicly >> a CBM II LP. I am not talking about the P500. The mobo >> is technicaly the same than the CBM 610 (B128) but a >> different layout (only some lines) and a (lower) part#. > Sure it's not a P-500? I currently have mine (P-500) opened for Information > Gathering, might well do some now... Shure it is a B500 - i could send Photos tomorrow (all at home) Different label and no joystick connectors at the backside. Althrough i guess the connector on the mobo next to where the P500 has the joysick ports, could be the same. Also the video chip is a 6845 and not a VID. > The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 > The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 > There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 > There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), > the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what > the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) Tomorrow. 8235 is the manufacturing week 35/82. N82S199N ? Hmm maybe a PROM ? N821xx are PROMS from Philips - But I never have seen a ...00 or ...N. I'll hafe a look tonight. >> Also the Version/Part#'s of the kernal/basic EPROMS are >> lower than any known (to me) B128/B256/6x0/7x0 type. >> The mobo and all chips are dated to 1982 - again way >> before any other CBM II I know. AFAIR the CBM II line >> was introducted in 1983. > Could be a beta prototype or one recalled during the FCC proving. (Commodore > had a run-in with the FCC concerning the B and P series computers...) No FCC number. My peronal guess is that on first sight Commo had planed a B500 and P500 series of computers, but later switched to the 500/600/700 scheme (and then again to B128/256 for the US and 6x0/7x0 for Germany) - and eventualy dropped the 500. Beside the B500 I own 3 610 units and a 720 (_without_ fd's!) >> Any Info would be usefull. > From my understanding EVERY scrap of Commodore's information regarding the > B-128 line of computers went to the Chicago B-128 Users Group (a nice > arrangement made with Commodore). I talked briefly with the president of the > group several years back but have since lost touch with anyone in the group. > I hope one day someone with the B-128 info will surface on the 'net. Hmm - The question is which Commodore unit sold their info. If only the US- Commodore Inc., than its only a small part, since the development and Production (at least of the prototypes) where done at Commodore Germany - an 'independent' company - they even survived the Breakdown of Commodore for almost a year :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 5 08:08:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808051308.AA07860@world.std.com> < > the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determin < > the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) 82s100 is a PLA (PAL like device) Allison From dlw at trailingedge.com Wed Aug 5 09:23:39 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Fwd: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? In-Reply-To: References: <199808041211.HAA05567@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: <199808051422.JAA07012@trailingedge.com> On 4 Aug 98, at 22:56, Sam Ismail wrote: > David, why do you insult us like this? I should have you whacked just for > relaying this message to the list :) No insult Sam, just thought someone else could use as good a laugh as I had over it. :-) > PS. Not crack, but definitely a cocktail of acid, speed and a big dose of > stupidity. I seem to have attracted several similar offers of late. I don't know if something new has slipped into the water supply or they just don't really know. I try and tell them but most seem to think they can retire off their old computers. Maybe he'll come back around after he can't sell it. I wouldn't mind having a ROM 0 just to round out my IIgs collection but I don't want one THAT bad. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 09:56:50 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00357@gate.usaor.net> > I think the Panasonic Senior Partner was the first luggable with built-in > printer: intro'd at Comdex in 1983, but there were HP's from the 70's > which were just as (if not more portable) that also had built-in printers. > I don't think anything over 12 lbs or so could reasonable be called a > laptop, though. > Well, It has a battery, and is fairly portable, despite the weight. It originally came with a case, and so did the disk drive. I have the case for the disk drive, but not the computer. the two cases connected together to make one, large, heavy case. > > Say what? Could you elaborate on the Pascal-based OS and DOS emulator? > The UCSD pSystem could be called a Pascal-based OS, but it didn't have a > DOS emulator that I've heard of. Is that what you mean? > I can't be positive on how it works, but I can't run the WANG system disks on my Win '95 computer. They will run on the WANG. It has some sort of MS-DOS emulator, though I can't be sure that it's PASCAL that actually runs on the thing. I'll look it up in the manual and see what it says. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 10:00:21 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00373@gate.usaor.net> > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > drives, unfortunately. > - don > I really wouldn't call it a luggable, mainly because it look like a laptop, and can run off of a battery, not needing to be connected to an AC outlet. If nobody minds, I may be able to upload a small picture of it so everyone can see what I mean. I you don't want me to post the picture to the list, let me know, and I'll send it to individual addresses. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 5 10:04:54 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Announcement Message-ID: <199808051509.LAA00402@gate.usaor.net> > No, it was the first "Laptop" computer (you got the quotes the other way > around). You need to come to the VCF to hear Bruce Faust explain the > distinction. > Don't think I'll make it, I live in PA. If someone would tell me a bit more about it, I'd appreciate it, though. > The T1100 was circa 1986. Someone else with more general knowledge of it > fill him in on the significance of the T1100. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 5 10:19:58 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Rom 0 Available? Message-ID: <49b585d0.35c87820@aol.com> feeling mean, i decided to email the induhvidual with the $6500 gs system and feign interest. seems to be a nice setup, but not for the price. he can't prove ownership and doesnt even have the original boxes for the main items. maybe i'll think of a real valuable system that i could "trade" him for, or either just tell him he's dreaming. >8-) In a message dated 98-08-05 10:54:48 EDT, you write: << I seem to have attracted several similar offers of late. I don't know if something new has slipped into the water supply or they just don't really know. I try and tell them but most seem to think they can retire off their old computers. Maybe he'll come back around after he can't sell it. I wouldn't mind having a ROM 0 just to round out my IIgs collection but I don't want one THAT bad. >> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 5 11:02:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> Tony, At 06:45 PM 8/4/98 +0100, you wrote: >> Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on > >What do you want to know? No, I don't fool with repairing them very often. I just need to be able to find their specs so I can match them up with the right video boards. If it's about repairing them, then I've found >the best references to be the 2 volumes of Mauritron Computer Monitor >Circuits that were published on paper (the CD-ROM versions are nowhere >near as useful). Each book costs about \pounds 50.00, and includes about Those sound usefull. Do you know if they're they available here in the US and where? >50 monitor circuit diagrams. Even if the monitor you have isn't >included, you'll probably find a circuit fragment which matches the one >you're working on. > >That's why the book is a lot more use than the CD-ROM. It's a lot easier >to flip through the book. Yes, and I don't have to drag a computer around to read them! AND they usually leave a lot of the pictures and drawings out of the CD ROMs. > >I also have a few monitor service manuals. Some of them I have because I >have the monitor, others because they contain 'generic' circuits that are >used all over the place. > >Also, of course, books on TV servicing are useful. Uggg! I used to work on TVs but no more! Unless it's something special it's not worth the time or parts that it would cost to fix it. Or course, most of the stuff built in the last 15 years has special parts that you can't get anyway. > >If you want info on using the monitors, then I can't think of anything. >In my experience the customer controls and connections are pretty obvious >(or can be obviously traced if you pull the cover). > >I suppose all that's left is finding out what the scan rates are. For old >single-frequency monitors, without those silly power-saving features, >the best way to find the horizontal scan rate (at least approximately) is >to power it up without sync, and look for the main frequency in the >random electromagnetic emissions. Sometimes just holding a scope probe or >counter probe near the monitor will do it. Sometimes a very loose >coupling to the flyback (a couple of turns round the core) will do it. I hadn't thought of that. >Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me >so much. Have you done much of that? How successfull were you? Joe > >-tony > > From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 5 12:32:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: <199808051509.LAA00373@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > If nobody minds, I may be able to upload a small picture of it so everyone > can see what I mean. I you don't want me to post the picture to the list, > let me know, and I'll send it to individual addresses. No, it's not a good idea to send binaries to the list. If you have a website, just send the URL to the list. If you don't have a website, there are plenty of places that will give you free web space (like www.geocity.com). --- Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 5 08:35:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <199808040241.WAA06240@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 2, 98 10:39:13 pm Message-ID: <199808051737.NAA28442@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Aug 98 at 18:45, Tony Duell wrote: > > Unfortunately I know little about monitors. Is there a good source for info on > > What do you want to know? If it's about repairing them, then I've found > the best references to be the 2 volumes of Mauritron Computer Monitor > Circuits that were published on paper (the CD-ROM versions are nowhere > near as useful). Each book costs about \pounds 50.00, and includes about > 50 monitor circuit diagrams. Even if the monitor you have isn't > included, you'll probably find a circuit fragment which matches the one > you're working on. > No, I was thinking more about interfacing. What works with what computer. The differences between formats. MGA, CGA, EGA, VGA, SVGA, RGB, Composite, TTL <> Analogue, V-H refresh rates, etc. Then there's the plugs and cables. Coming from an Atari-C64 background it took me a while to recognize that a 9pin dbl was likely not a VGA , but not always as with the multi-synchs. Most monitors don't say on the back what they are ,or even if they are color or not. Then there are the 15pin DBL(?) DEC and 3270 plugs not to mention the various DIN plugs. I've only recently found a good diagram of the various shells (from the Redmond Cable site) How about changing a 9pin multi to a 15-pin ( 3rows). Macs and Apples have their own quirks. Certainly the info is out there at the various platform sites or in their manuals, but not always. SVGA is another ball of wax entirely. I have monitors that I'm not sure whether or not they're SVGA capable, not to mention how the FPD flippables work. Radius has nothing on the older models that I could find. It's a complete subject in itself and especially for collectors or those with older machines. > That's why the book is a lot more use than the CD-ROM. It's a lot easier > to flip through the book. > I'd agree there, but at 100 Lbs.($300 Can ?) for the two I'll settle for the inconvenience of the CD. > I also have a few monitor service manuals. Some of them I have because I > have the monitor, others because they contain 'generic' circuits that are > used all over the place. > > Also, of course, books on TV servicing are useful. > > If you want info on using the monitors, then I can't think of anything. > In my experience the customer controls and connections are pretty obvious > (or can be obviously traced if you pull the cover). > Well this Taxan I've found has as well as the color<>mono TTL<>Analogue sitches and the usual monitor/TV-type controls, 4x4 matrix preset controls, 3 p-b controls, Preset: Auto- release, Scan: Auto- Overscan, Mode: Auto-16 colors. Which is fairly self-evident, but without knowing the Video characteristics of the computer you're hooking it up to, all could go up in smoke. How much easier it would be to look it up in a book with references as to matching monitor-computer. Even kind of a Dummys' Guide to monitors for the neophyte. > I suppose all that's left is finding out what the scan rates are. For old > single-frequency monitors, without those silly power-saving features, > the best way to find the horizontal scan rate (at least approximately) is > to power it up without sync, and look for the main frequency in the > random electromagnetic emissions. Sometimes just holding a scope probe or > counter probe near the monitor will do it. Sometimes a very loose > coupling to the flyback (a couple of turns round the core) will do it. > Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me > so much. > There are monitor specs available for those of us that don't have a scope or the know-how to measure for them but it's pretty sparse. And of course then there's the computer end of the problem. If there isn't any such book available it might be a worthwhile project. " Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Monitors". I'd certainly buy one. > -tony > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 5 13:18:49 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Vint. Comp. Ann. / WANG WLTC First laptop w/ printer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > > It may have been the first DOS based luggable, but it was preceded by > > some years by the Access Actrix - a CP/M based machine that sported an > > Epson DMP printer on top. It suffered from small screen and single sided > > drives, unfortunately. > > OK, you win the Obscure Reference award. All I can find on the Actrix is > that the company folded in 1984. If you erect a web-shrine to this > machine, people will flock to you from the search engines whenever anybody > makes a similar obscure reference in the future. > > -- Doug > Gosh, I hope not!!! - don From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Aug 5 13:27:41 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: References: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:39 PM 8/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, james london wrote: > >> I am desperately seeking a Burroughs 205 computer controller console, >> circa 1957. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! > >You mean besides a time machine? Keep looking...a lot. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the "Jupiter 2" spaceship A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia (can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. So... it becomes a matter of just how much you really want one... B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 5 14:25:03 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Boot Disks for Northstar Advantage Message-ID: <199808051927.PAA04897@charity.harvard.net> I need a set of boot disks for a Northstar Advantage system. Can anyone help? Thanks Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 5 15:40:13 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> References: <28626-35C7B9E3-1436@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: >Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with >the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the >panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on >the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the >"Jupiter 2" spaceship If that is the case, some of the old "Lost in Space" fan produced books might be able to help you reproduce the console. I've seen a couple of them that had VERY detailed diagrams in them of all the panels on the Jupiter 2. Zane >A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at >www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia >(can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. > >So... it becomes a matter of just how much you really want one... B^} > >-jim > >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Aug 5 16:49:53 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Burroughs 205 and LIS In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980805112741.0348bd80@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980805144953.00b24910@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:40 PM 8/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Well... Just for reference, the Burroughs machines were very popular with >>the TV and Movie industry as props due to the large number of lights on the >>panels. A number of the Burroughs 205 programmers consoles can be seen on >>the show "Lost In Space" as the flight consoles on the bridge of the >>"Jupiter 2" spaceship > >If that is the case, some of the old "Lost in Space" fan produced books >might be able to help you reproduce the console. I've seen a couple of >them that had VERY detailed diagrams in them of all the panels on the >Jupiter 2. > >>A fan group of this show called "Alpha Control" (found at >>www.alphacontrol.com) does have some 'extra' panels for sale as memoribelia >>(can't spell that) of the show for only $7500US. OR... for those of you on the East Coast (or those who would like an excuse to go there), the 'Alpha Control' folk own the complete "Jupiter 2" flight deck console and do offer tours. You can take your own pictures and have a LIS fantasy flight (YIMV). Details on that on the Alpha Control web site as well... BTW: They also offer a videotape of the flight deck with everything running/blinking/etc... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 12:42:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 In-Reply-To: <35C7B094.3065ECBA@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson" at Aug 4, 98 06:08:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1014 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980805/18ccd91d/attachment.ksh From lgreenf at nausicaa.net Wed Aug 5 20:21:24 1998 From: lgreenf at nausicaa.net (larry greenfield) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Wanted: APF Imagination Machine Message-ID: <199808060121.SAA22023@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Hi! I used a search engine and it pointed me to this email address. I have no idea if this is a person or a listserv, but I've been trying for a long time to find an old (circa 1980) "APF Imagination Machine". I'm NOT a collector, but am looking only for this machine because it was the first computer I ever owned. If you know of anyone who has one that might be willing to sell it, or see one for sale anywhere, PLEASE let me know! Thanks! Larry Greenfield Email: lgreenfi@nyx.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 18:24:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 5, 98 11:02:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3559 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/907eed71/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 5 19:07:12 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <199808051737.NAA28442@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 5, 98 01:35:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/6faa700e/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Wed Aug 5 21:27:19 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks Message-ID: <19980805195910.0ca2eb14.in@mail.pressstart.com> I've been trying to make an archive copy of my Mindset software, because all of the commercial software for the Mindset requires the original disk to be inserted before running, including Microsoft GW Basic ! Does anyone have (successful) experience copying Mindset disks, or know of a real kick butt copy program for the IBM PC? ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Aug 5 21:39:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19980805110201.87a71f4a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980805213901.48777c82@intellistar.net> Tony, >If you can fix TVs you're over halfway to fixing monitors > >> it's not worth the time or parts that it would cost to fix it. Or course, > >Not so. Most TV faults can be fixed in under an hour using fairly cheap >parts. About the worst thing that's likely to go is the flyback transformer. And the horizontal output transistor 95% of the time. Flybacks and HOTs are very expensive here if you order a specific part. The last flyback that I got cost $80! If you can get a generic part number then they're a lot cheaper. > >Maybe I only get the higher class of TV sets here, They MUST be! but I certainly find >them worth repairing. The cheap modern crap produces a picture that IMHO >is unwatchable even when you've tweaked all the adjustments... Then you should see the crap that they sell in the discount stores here! > > >> >Vertical scan rates are a lot easier to modify, so those don't bother me >> >so much. >> >> Have you done much of that? How successfull were you? > >It's _Very_ easy to modify the vertical scan rate. The horizontal scan >system is nasty to modify because (a) the flyback is tuned to (a harmonic >of) the scan rate, (b) the EHT voltage depends on the scan rate and (c) >the scan sawtooth is partially produced by the inductance of the yoke. So >changing anything there is a pain. How far can you shift the horizontal frequency? > >But the vertical system is more friendly. The sawtooth waveform is >produced in a low-level stage, amplified by what's essentially an audio >amplifier (in fact some TVs used an audio amplifier chip here), and sent >to the yoke. Given a data sheet on the chip you can normally figure out >what components to change. Is it just a RC circuit? Joe From kyrrin at jps.net Thu Aug 6 00:12:06 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: FW: WTB PDP-11/03 Message-ID: <35c93ae8.708913924@smtp.wa.jps.net> Anyone got an 11/03 they'd care to sell to this fellow? Please respond directly to him if so. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec From: Ron Maxwell Subject: WTB: DEC PDP 11/03.... Yup!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: Email abuse@news2.new-york.net if this posting is inappropriate Reply-To: rmaxwell@nyct.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp16.nyct.net Message-ID: <35C9057F.4F31@nyct.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news2.new-york.net 902366577 27041 (None) [207.198.184.16] Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 01:23:11 GMT Lines: 15 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.new-york.net!news2.new-york.net!not-for-mail Hi there... I am looking to buy a DEC PDP 11/03 with 2 8" floppy drives and a terminal... Why??? Because! I am lookin for the following software: Some kind of DOS with BASIC, Fortran, Pascal, and/or COBOL with manuals. Blank Floppy disks a plus!!!! This was the fist computer I evered programmed and am looking for some serious nostalgia! Ron -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 6 04:30:24 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: 8" flops In-Reply-To: <35c93ae8.708913924@smtp.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: There was a big feeding frenzy here when somebody offered some 8" floppy disks. If you're still hungry, somebody's selling boxes of 10 for $2: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201710016 -- Doug From franke at sbs.de Thu Aug 6 11:32:03 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 496 Message-ID: <199808061417.QAA08553@marina.fth.sbs.de> >> The Motherboard's Assembly Number is: 4256046 >> The 3 8k ROMs are part numbers: 901234-02, 901235-02, and 901236-02 >> There is another chip marked FPLA #1 0906114-02 >> There is a second next to it with it's label removed (dried spooge on the top), >> the chip ID is: N82S100N 8235 (I haven't searched the net to determine what >> the chip is, one day I may study electronics more....) > I'll hafe a look tonight. Ok, here they are: Motherboard: FAB 825 6045 (A/B 8256044 Ref.D) ROMS: (All info like written on the labels) Kernal 901244-04A 901242-03A BASIC HI128K 901243-03A BASIC LO128K Other ROM(?): CBM2 LP 906114-04 It is definitly not a P500 - no Joysticks no VID Gruss H. BTW: Board# on the 610's is: 825 6048 -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 12:25:19 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980805213901.48777c82@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 5, 98 09:39:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/92e5e1bd/attachment.ksh From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Aug 6 15:42:02 1998 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks In-Reply-To: <19980805195910.0ca2eb14.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <000501bdc17a$aba17ce0$55c648c2@snoopy> > Does anyone have (successful) experience copying Mindset > disks, or know of a real kick butt copy program for the > IBM PC? If you are running Linux at all then try dd ing the disks to a file and then back to another disk. This _should_ copy anything which is readable in a PC drive byte by byte regardless of disk format or attributes (AFAIK). Regards Pete From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 6 15:43:33 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In the UK, a third-party flyback is about \pounds 20 (for a TV or > monitor), a genuine one is about \pounds 50.00. And the horizontal output > transistor (we call that a line output transistor) is about \pounds 5.00 > for most sets. And to think, I was just about to dumpster the following: (3) WY 85 Upgrade/repair Kits, each with: (1) 420010-01 flyback (1) BU806 transistor (1) 4.7/50 bipolar cap (2) 10/50 cap (1) 220/50 cap If these are useful to anybody, make me an offer. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 17:00:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Mindset disks In-Reply-To: <000501bdc17a$aba17ce0$55c648c2@snoopy> from "Peter Joules" at Aug 6, 98 09:42:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/93ebfdd3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 6 17:02:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Monitors In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 6, 98 03:43:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 931 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980806/73c5b042/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Aug 6 19:18:23 1998 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <199808070018.AA21319@crl.crl.com> Hi guys! I'm telnetting into my old accound from a bookstore in Denver... Just wanted to let any locals know that there is an NEC APC (Advanced Personal Computer) available at the ARC thrift shop at 10000 E. Colfax in Aurora. It's an older machine, looks like a VT-100, with a monitor and 2 8" floppies in the main unit. Not sure how much (tag was torn.) Also there is a Franklin Ace 1000 and a Commodore PC-20 III. And an IBM DisplayWriter. So far, I haven't picked up much, but I did get a Mattel(?) Odyssey, to "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. That's about it; I'm off for more sightseeing. From rax at warbaby.com Thu Aug 6 20:50:57 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Computers in the movies... Message-ID: Y'all probably know about this site from the U of M's Charles Babbage Institute's Center for the History of Computing, but it's new to me so I thought I'd pass it along. It's a listing of movies which feature computers: http://www.cbi.umn.edu/movies.htm R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Aug 6 19:48:25 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980806194825.006a30e8@pop3.concentric.net> Well the last few days have been good to me as I was able to save the following: 1) Bally Computer system with these videocades 2012 Space Fortress, 2011 Galactic Invasion, Tornado Baseball,Tennis,Hockey and Handball, 3002 Football, Blackjack, Poker and Acey-Deucey, and four game handles; 2) Mac LCII box only no kb or mouse; 3) Mac 128 keyboard and cable; 4) ASCI U68 System X computer really nice wood and smoke gray plastic case; 5) Next Laser printer; 6) Fluke 1102A IEEE-488 Translator two of them; 7) B&K models 466 and 440 CRT testers/rejuvenators; 8) Toshiba T1000SE manual; 9) Zenith model ZVM-1330 color monitor; 10) CPT Office Companion 2000 computer; 11) SX-64 Executive Computer; 12) Atari 2600 and paddles, lots cartridges came with it; 13) TRS80 Color computer programmable controller; 14) TRS80 X-PAD with pen and power supply; 15) Lots of color computer cartridges with two outstanding ones, 26-3142 Appliance and Light controller and Colorware Hi-RES input module COCO MAX; 16) TRS80 Multi-Pak interface 26-3024; 17) Various old paddles, joysticks and such; 18) lots books, manuals, diskettes to many to list here; 19) Many Vic20 items; 20) And many more that do not meet the 10 year rule, so all it has been a good week. I will going to Chicago this weekend to hit some flea markets there and will updated the list next week on any finds there. Keep Computing John From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 6 21:12:50 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! Message-ID: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi All: I have just returned from the University of BC here in Vancouver. They called me to see if I was interested in purchasing two mainframes that went surplus as of June 30th, 1988. They are open to offers, and do not want much money for these. The machines can be described (basically) as follows: First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. The current front runner on this machine is a local scrap dealer who is going to chop up and recycle the machine for its metal content. :-( I've contacted Paul Pierce, mainframe collector extraordinaire, but he is unable to take the machine due to space and time contraints. Any other takers? Also available: A Hitachi (apparently) mainframe system, model HS 7023, terminals, tape drives, racks, disk storage. This system was smaller (about the size of a large VAX 750/780 installation), was also in working order as of June 30th, and is available. It sort of looked like a mini to me but the computing centre staff refer to it as a mainframe. Offers, you pick up. If there's any interest then please email me and I will be able to provide you with further information, and put you in touch with the surplus folks that are handling the disposal. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 6 21:59:12 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Looking for Info: EMULEX CC02 Message-ID: <199808070259.TAA11312@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Group: Anyone have info on what looks to be an async serial board, the Emulex CC02? It's a Q bus card, quad height, 2x 40 (50? it's not in front of me) pin IDC headers. I tried various search engines but no luck. Thanks, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 6 22:27:39 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail In-Reply-To: <199808070018.AA21319@crl.crl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > So far, I haven't picked up much, but I did get a Mattel(?) Odyssey, to That's Magnavox Odyssey. Is it just the Odyssey, or Odyssey2? If you got a plain Odyssey (circa 1972) then you've got yourself quite a find. > "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. Atari Pong is cool. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 02:13:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 BTW, there's also yet another IMSAI for sale there as well. It's raining S-100's. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 03:58:00 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html -- Doug From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 7 05:28:30 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980807062830.0068d610@mail.wincom.net> At 03:58 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! > http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html > >-- Doug > > Question: Is it true that Allison is the model for DILBERT'S "ALICE"? From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 7 06:46:40 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! References: <3.0.2.32.19980807062830.0068d610@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <35CAE91F.9A887EEA@bbtel.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 03:58 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Today: Singapore, tomorrow: the world! > > http://www.singapore.cnet.com/Briefs/Guidebook/Obsolete/ss02.html "One example that shows how much money can be saved involves the creation of her scanning platform. She found her a working HP ScanJet for free, a copy of the software was also free and then scrounged for an interface card which fit an IBM PS/2 machine (a 286). Her net cost so far has been only US$10. She uses Laplink to transfer the images to a 486 for OCR and editing. The resources available decided the configuration she would use. " I KNOW this is the same Allison! I just hope she remembers where she "scrounged" this stuff and maybe I'll start selling old machines in Singapore . All kidding aside, she is a model for women that wnat to show others that they can do whatever they put their minds to, despite stereotypes. They didn't mention that Allison also does just about anything else she puts he mind to. It may also show the world that she's just cheap (hehe) I have a feeling that there is starting to become more than a nostalgic revival for the older equipment. I've had tons of inquiries into the PS/2's I have, for use rather than collecting, and even more in machines that I've previously had problems selling or trading. I sold a ton of Commodores lately, from Vic's to Amigas and I don't have a single unit left in sight. Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 every 3 yrs just to keep up with the Jones'??? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 08:44:42 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:47 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash Message-ID: <7669009@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Ooh...got any spare two-prong power supplies for the Vic 20? -- MB From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 7 10:01:23 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 1 info Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980807110123.00687bc0@mail.wincom.net> While browsing I discovered that Chapter 9 of TAB book # 1183, "Troubleshooting Microprocessors & Digital Logic" by Robert L. Goodman, consists of about twenty five pages of schematics and troubleshooting hints for the TRS80 Model 1. I hope this is of interest. Regards Charlie Fox From ddameron at earthlink.net Fri Aug 7 10:11:58 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! Message-ID: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't >it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > The one for $2500 says the reserve has not been met!!! At that price, maybe MITS should start up again! The Imsai is $305 right now, for the person looking for one. -Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 7 10:38:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! Message-ID: <199808071538.AA17680@world.std.com> < I KNOW this is the same Allison! I just hope she remembers where she T'is me and I do. < also does just about anything else she puts he mind to. It may also show < that she's just cheap (hehe) Correct in both cases, I'm cheap and I put my mind to it. ;) < Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 eve < just to keep up with the Jones'??? It's not the $2500... it's the $2500 for his, $2500 for hers and $3000 for the 1.6 children that want the newest one. Whatever happend to timsharing systems... A great way tp distribute the cost. Allison From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 12:52:11 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! Message-ID: <199808071537.RAA00517@marina.fth.sbs.de> >>With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >>of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >>our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >>which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't >>it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > The one for $2500 says the reserve has not been met!!! Wishes.... > At that price, maybe MITS should start up again! Wishes... But hmm what about building Replicas for all the poor yougsters ? Are there any oldie Remakes available ? > The Imsai is $305 right now, for the person looking for one. I bet a whole squard of snipers is waiting for the closing time. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 13:01:44 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! Message-ID: <199808071546.RAA00991@marina.fth.sbs.de> >< Maybe the average Joe and JoAnne are getting sick and tired of $2500 eve >< just to keep up with the Jones'??? > It's not the $2500... it's the $2500 for his, $2500 for hers and $3000 for > the 1.6 children that want the newest one. *G* > Whatever happend to timsharing systems... A great way tp distribute the > cost. MS tries to catch up with WinNT - so the Users might share their time while waiting for the next bugfix. :) SCNR Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 10:48:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: $!!!! Re: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807104846.489f143c@intellistar.net> At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 >which has already been met! They don't call it E-Pay for nothing! Joe From van at wired.com Fri Aug 7 12:34:12 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi everyone... One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully functional again... Any advice would be very much appreciated. Best regards, van ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:29:36 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK Message-ID: <7676588@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Van Burnham wrote: One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully functional again... Any advice would be very much appreciated. --- end of quote --- I don't have any spares right now, but I was going to suggest checking Goodwill/Salvation Army stores -- I saw a Mac 128/512/Plus keyboard for sale at one of those not too long ago. Also, Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com, I think) sells all kinds of old Apple/Mac stuff, including small parts (like maybe key caps and keyswitches). I've replaced those keyswitches many times, and if you can solder two dots onto a flat circuitboard, it's not very difficult. Unlike today's single-piece membrane keyboards, all the keys on the older Mac keyboards are separate. Other companies to try: Preowned Electronics, Shreve Systems, and Nexcomp, all of which specialize in refurbished Mac systems and parts (www.preowned.com, www.shrevesystems.com, and www.nexcomp.com). Nexcomp lists a Mac Plus keyboard, no cable for $25 and a Mac Plus mouse for $19. The others may be cheaper. Hope that helps! -- MB From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 7 13:34:13 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out > of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from > our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 > which has already been met! I think that's a record for an Altair, isn't > it? So much for the old supply and demand theories. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > BTW, there's also yet another IMSAI for sale there as well. It's raining > S-100's. > > -- Doug > > Actually, Doug, it really confirms supply/demand theories! It also confirms one of Phineas T. Barnum's theories too 8-} - don From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:36:13 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements Message-ID: <7676795@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 629 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/a148bc26/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:40:15 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Lisa II parts Message-ID: <7676904@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/db9c891f/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:43:11 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 269 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/057b6cb9/attachment.bin From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 13:45:24 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III (last one, I swear!) Message-ID: <7677375@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 276 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/77bdf2c1/attachment.bin From franke at sbs.de Fri Aug 7 16:03:32 1998 From: franke at sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III (last one, I swear!) Message-ID: <199808071848.UAA08287@marina.fth.sbs.de> > Mine has a malfunctioning floppy. Looking for a replacement, as well as any > repair documentation or original manuals... If it is only for the drive, any DISK ][ could be used for replacement parts. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jsalzman at hersheys.com Fri Aug 7 13:52:56 1998 From: jsalzman at hersheys.com (Salzman, Jeff) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette players/radios or Remington electric razors. I'm open for any disputes. (Be gentle) Jeff Salzman > >Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong >version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 7 14:10:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Allison famous in Singapore! In-Reply-To: <199808071546.RAA00991@marina.fth.sbs.de> Message-ID: <13377942125.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Whatever happened to Timesharing?] Hit opobo.umtec.com (Say HELLO!) or minako.umtec.com... Guess which one's real? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 7 14:14:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about System 7 later...) Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? (I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) ------- From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 14:12:29 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements Message-ID: <199808071923.PAA02160@charity.harvard.net> From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 15:18:56 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> I dont think my previous plea made it to the list, our mail system here is rather braindead. I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. Thanks Tony From red at bears.org Fri Aug 7 15:25:00 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup In-Reply-To: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 7 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong > version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! That's just 9VAC at something around 1, maybe 1.5A. And I think the connection is even somewhat standard. It's not in front of me at the moment, though, so I can't check to be certain. ok r. From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 7 15:41:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C52C@NT486> -----Original Message----- From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. Your last msg did make it. Do you need 8 bit, 16 bit, static, dynamic, 16 bit address, 24 bit address, mixed RAM and ROM, do you have a boot ROM of some kind, what CPU card are you using, do you have a front panel? I'll check and see if I have anything to spare this weekend. The catch is the S-100 boxes are piled 6 hi and chances are the spare card is in the bottom one, plus I have to unscrew each top to look inside. Jack Peacock From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 7 15:59:25 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Anything that will store bits for an IMSAI with the stock 8080 processor card. Thanks Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Peacock [mailto:peacock@simconv.com] > Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 4:42 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] > >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If > anyone has one > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. > > Your last msg did make it. Do you need 8 bit, 16 bit, > static, dynamic, > 16 bit address, 24 bit address, mixed RAM and ROM, do you have a boot > ROM of some kind, what CPU card are you using, do you have a front > panel? I'll check and see if I have anything to spare this weekend. > The catch is the S-100 boxes are piled 6 hi and chances are the spare > card is in the bottom one, plus I have to unscrew each top to look > inside. > Jack Peacock > From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 7 16:17:40 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C52D@NT486> -----Original Message----- From: Dellett, Anthony [mailto:Anthony.Dellett@Staples.com] Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 1:59 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... >Anything that will store bits for an IMSAI with the stock 8080 processor >card. Ok, what other cards do you have? I might have an old Omnibyte 64K, uses 6116 type SRAMs plus you can stick in a 2716 pair (it uses even/odd pairs for 16-bit access) in the last 4K for a boot ROM. Unfortunately all I have are Z80 bootstraps, none will run on an 8080. No promises, but I'll look. Jack Peacock From william at ans.net Fri Aug 7 16:13:16 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: > First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of > DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge > tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water > cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and > was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten > years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, > and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would > do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. Too far away! If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs will come in really handy! William Donzelli william@ans.net From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Fri Aug 7 16:16:19 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7681280@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- jsalzman@hersheys.com wrote: If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette players/radios or Remington electric razors. --- end of quote --- I was able to make it work with an NES power supply (9VAC 1.3A), but anytime I tried to use the datasette, the screen would flicker and all operations would cease. I assumed this happened because the current was too low (high enough to drive the Vic, but not the Vic and the datasette). According to the 8-bit FAQ (in Mr. Dellett's post) this is probably correct -- the lowest-current one listed there uses 1.7 amps. Thank you for the response! -- MB ------------------------------------ "YOU! Out of the gene pool!" http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 7 16:22:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... In-Reply-To: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. You might try Herb Johnson: http://pluto.njcc.com/~hjohnson/s100.html -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Fri Aug 7 17:49:38 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Rails needed Message-ID: <35CB8480.E7B62CB6@bbtel.com> Check your junk boxes! I am in need of a couple (up to 3 ) pairs of drive rails for a Dell server. The rails will be plastic and have the marking of "PN 25102" molded into them. They are a little bit different than the usual in that they have a snag tab on the fron tof each to lock them into the front of the case. If anyone has some, drop me a direct note please. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Fri Aug 7 16:57:13 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: All right, darnit I'm back. I moved jobs, started my new business and found out the new business only requires about 20 hours of my time every month and a half. :-/ And I've still got a garage and basement full of iron beasties waiting for resurrection. So... (BTW, Allison and Don Maslin, I think I owe each of you $5 for some docs and disks you sent me.) I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is causing the sync problem. I verified that it's the video driver circuitry and not some malfunction of the monitor by connected a monochrome monitor to the Video Out jack on the back and seeing the exact same behavior. At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a viable replacement for them? Is my theory about the video plausible? I've got images of bootdisks etc floating around in an email box somewhere on the backup tape from which I had to resurrect other email messages so once I get the video cleaned up I'm ready to rock and roll I think. Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what should it be connected? Thanks in advance for advice and assistance... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 7 18:19:19 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: More finds saved from the trash In-Reply-To: <7669009@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980807181919.006ac04c@pop3.concentric.net> I passed on one for free Thurdays at a thrift store. I will check on Monday to see if it's still there, I'm going out of town this weekend or I would Saturday. At 09:44 AM 8/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Ooh...got any spare two-prong power supplies for the Vic 20? > >-- MB > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 17:52:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: References: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807175245.47a72572@intellistar.net> I have a brand new in the box Apple Extended Keyboard II. What's it worth? It's absolutely spotless and the manual is still in the shrink wrap. Or maybe I should post it on E-Pay and see if I can get $2500 for it :-) Joe At 10:34 AM 8/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi everyone... > >One of my co-workers has given me a fantastic Mac Plus...I cleaned it up >and she's looking just beautiful (even has a Gigamation Data Cell external >hard drive...so sweet!), except that when I fired her up, I found out that >the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried >some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in >trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. > > > >Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would >be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully >functional again... > >Any advice would be very much appreciated. > > >Best regards, > >van > >........................................................................ > > @ > / > / Shift Lever > (D)/ >\===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === >BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! >- ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 >Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection >mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] > ] ]] >71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... >van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com >production manager >wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states >........................................................................ >for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com >van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 18:08:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power requirements In-Reply-To: <7676795@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807180816.47a7bf9c@intellistar.net> Will an 800 power supply work? I think I have one. You may have to take the 800 too though! Joe At 02:36 PM 8/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >I have an Atari 400 that needs a power supply. I spoke to someone at a company called Video 61 (which specializes in old Atari stuff) and he said the power supply is so weirdly designed that if I try a generic equivalent, it'll blow the board. And he refused to tell me what the actual specs are. So, do any of you have a 400/800 power supply you'd be willing to trade/sell, or -- ye gods! -- could you tell me the actual specifications, so I could maybe build one? > >Thanks very much! > >-- MB > >------------------------------------ >"YOU! Out of the gene pool!" > >http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 7 18:15:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: I dont think my plea ever made it to the list... In-Reply-To: <199808072024.QAA09397@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980807181532.47a7d718@intellistar.net> No, you last message made it. But I think everyone here is hoarding all of their S-100 stuff! (I know I am!) Joe At 04:18 PM 8/7/98 -0400, you wrote: >I dont think my previous plea made it to the list, our mail system here >is rather braindead. > >I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one >they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. > >Thanks >Tony > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 7 15:20:57 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Van Burnham" at Aug 7, 98 10:34:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980807/c2d3febb/attachment.ksh From rax at warbaby.com Fri Aug 7 20:02:11 1998 From: rax at warbaby.com (Rax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Anybody want to part with... Message-ID: ...an Altair? From: "Seth D. Carmichael" To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Subject: [collectorz] FW: for collectorz Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:50:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal X-Message-Id: <000001bdc22b$d7eda560$b689b1cd@seth> List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 2.54, List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Help: Reply-To: "Dead Media Project Collectors List!" Sender: collectorz-admin@lists.tmn.com Precedence: bulk X-Lyris-To: [rax@warbaby.com] X-Lyris-MemberID: 2557 X-Lyris-MessageID: 7371 Status: U please respond to Dustin direct! Thanks From bogus@does.not.exist.com Fri Aug 7 01:41:25 1998 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Altair 8800 Message-ID: Hello, I'm looking for an old Altair 8800, and I need to know if it is possible to buy one or if you know of anywhere, where I could get the plans for it. Any information that you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Dustin --- You are currently subscribed to collectorz as: [rax@warbaby.com] To unsubscribe, forward this message to unsubscribe-collectorz@lists.tmn.com -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Dreadlocks on white boys give me the willies. From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Fri Aug 7 19:25:05 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: S-100 RAM Card Message-ID: <35CB9AE1.BCF0A7BC@joyce.eng.yale.edu> The only cards I have are a PIO and Processor card (well, plus the front panel). I appreciate the help. Tony (from home) apulo@joyce.eng.yale.edu From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Fri Aug 7 20:27:48 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: S-100 mania In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I need a S-100 RAM card of any size to test my IMSAI. If anyone has one > > they feel comfortable parting with, please let me know. We have a strange one still cranking here at work. An S-100 bus multi-processor system with CPU & memory cards from a place called Teletek. Runs something called Turbo Dos. Looks sort of like CP/M hacked to channel I/O from the multi-processors through one master cpu & disk controller (with an ST-225, hoo boy. got a box of them too!) and some primitive file privledges. Anyone else encountered such a beast? -Wayne Cox From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 20:39:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: Greetings, I finally got around to trying the Profile hard drive someone gave me, with my Apple III, but I can't get it to work. I haven't tried formatting, but I wan't to leave that as a 'last resort', in case there's something useful on the drive. I opened up the drive when I first got it, to see what's inside. The actual drive mechanism is a full-height 5.25" jobbie, and IIRC it's 5MB. I don't remember who the manufacturer was. I power up the drive first, and wait until the READY light stops blinking. I have no Apple III docs, I just 'guessed' that that was the proper procedure. I don't know if it is yet. I then boot up the III with the SOS 1.3 Utilities disk. I've used the configuration program to make .PROFILE active. The configuration file reports the following: item field value 1 - Device Name................ .PROFILE 2 - Device Type................ $D1 Block, Read, Write ( range 00..FF ) Formatter present; NonRemovable 3 - Device Subtype............. $02 ( range 00..FF ) 4 - Driver Status.............. ACTIVE 5 - Comment Apple /// SOS Profile Driver (C) Copyright 1981, Apple Computer Inc. 6 - Configuration Block data Slot Number................ 04 Unit Number................ $00 Manufacturer ID............ $0001 Apple Block Count................ $2600 (9728) Version ID................. 1.00 I can't edit the configuration block data, though. If I go down to item 6 and hit RETURN, I get to the "Edit Driver Configuration Block" screen, which looks like it should have at least 16 values on it. It only displays "[FF]" at location 00, though, and although it says I can use arrows to go to other values, the arrows don't do anything. If I go to the "Device handling commands" section from the main menu, and attempt to Verify .PROFILE, the READY light on the Profile blinks, there is a clicking noise, and the READY light goes out. The program reports ".profile - Volume not found". The READY light stays out for a while, blinks a few times, then comes back on and stays on. If I go to "List devices configured", it pauses when it gets to .PROFILE, and reports "(no directory)", and the drive behaves exactly as with Verify. It's possible the drive just needs to be formatted, but as I said, I don't want to do that until I'm sure there's nothing salvageable on it. I'm not even sure I've got the cabling right. I assumed it takes a straight-through 25-pin cable from the ProFile controller to the drive unit. No twists or turns along the way? Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. Any helpful info will be appreciated. Hopefully I don't get frustrated and try formatting the unit before I get a reply. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Fri Aug 7 20:48:09 1998 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: FW: We have a PDP11/44 Available In-Reply-To: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> References: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> Message-ID: <35ccae27.869549876@smtp.wa.jps.net> Say... wasn't someone besides me looking for an 11/44? Here's your chance! ;-) -=-=- -=-=- On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:05:19 -0700, in alt.sys.pdp11 you wrote: >>Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 >>Subject: We have a PDP11/44 Available >>Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 12:05:19 -0700 >>Organization: The University of the Arts >>Lines: 60 >>Message-ID: <35CB4FEE.F56C1F10@hslc.org> >>Reply-To: jawillie@hslc.org >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.28.84.22 >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------57797D7306A236C27B672957" >>X-Trace: 902505849 YRH3WRCEH5416D01CC usenet57.supernews.com >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win16; I) >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail >> >> >>--------------57797D7306A236C27B672957 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >>We currently have a full PDP11/44 system that we are trying to get rid >>of. The system consists of the following >> >>1 - PDP11/44 >>1 - TS11 Tape drive >>2 - RMO2 Drives >>2 - Systems Industries Drives (680Mb, 390Mb) >>1 - DEC LP25 Printer >> >>We are willing to entertain any reasonable offer for this equipment. We >>are also willing to donate this equipment to any charitable or >>educational institution. If you are interested in this equipment, email >>either myself at the address below or Joyce Zogott at jzogott@uarts.edu. >> >>Thanks. >>-- >> James A. Williams, PC Systems Analyst >> The University of the Arts >> Computer Services >> Voice: (215)875-4856 >> Fax: (215)546-6134 >> jawilliams@uarts.edu >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 20:55:35 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Van Burnham wrote: > except that when I fired her up, I found out that > the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried > some minor surgery, but to no avail. Also the keyboard (MO110A) is in > trouble as well, some keys are missing and some simply don't function. I've got the identical problem with my Mac 512K and MO100 mouse. It moves horizontally, and the button works (the menus drop down from the title bar) but it won't move vertically. The keyboard also had some 'dead' keys, but with enough typing on them, they eventually woke up. Just dirty contacts. I cleaned out the mouse, but I haven't done anything else yet. Tony gave me some info on how the critters work, but I haven't had time to look into it yet. I still don't know if it's the mouse or the Mac with the fault. One useful thing would be the Mac's mouse port pinout, though, so that I at least know what pins to look at. And the Apple //c's, too. This is just piling up on the 'things to do' list. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 7 21:02:00 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup In-Reply-To: <7676981@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 7 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > Sorry about the high volume of requests here! I'm looking for the two-prong > version of the Vic 20 power supply. Thanks again! Hummm... I saw a large box full of those in an electronics store. Unfortunately, that was about two years ago, and the store is about two hours away by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). And they were charging something like $8 CDN each. The specs listed on the top of my VIC-20 power supply are: INPUT: 117V 47-63Hz 40W OUTPUT: 10VAC 30VA Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 21:54:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: References: <199808071511.IAA00497@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: >Would any of you happen to have any spare keyboards or mice that you would >be able to sell/trade? I would be thrilled to get this system fully >functional again... Unfortunatly I'm in need of spares at the moment my self, I guess it's time for another Goodwill run, so I can't help you there. I've got a pair of Pluses that I'm maintaining until cousins twin girls are older (they got the computers when they were a year and a half). >Any advice would be very much appreciated. When getting the above mentioned computers running I discovered that it can be a real pain to find fully functional Mac Plus keyboards. I also discovered that it's handy to have one non-functional keyboard around, that you can pull keys off of, and test to make sure they are good. Then when you need to, you can replace a bad key. This takes a Soldering Iron, but about the only skill you need is not to hit yourself with the Iron :^) I've also repaired one of the fancy ADB keyboards (the ones that sell for $160 new), in its case I had to refurbish the keys themselves. First I unsoldered them, then got them working again and soldered them back on. This is not a fun proceedure, and does require a little skill (but just a little). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 22:07:01 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: References: <199808072101.RAA13931@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) >and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped >down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard >have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is Oh, bleep. Let me guess you've got a Lisa 2/5. They're infamous for this problem. I was able to get to mine just prior to the batteries really messing stuff up. This is most likely the cause of your problems, any chance of reparing the damage? >At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the >board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a >viable replacement for them? No, you can boot without them. IIRC it's a _slight_ annoyance not having them, but it does work. Besides the clock won't go past 1995 so who cares if that is wrong :^) >Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. >Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should >be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and >an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one >of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what >should it be connected? I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't remember what it is :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 7 22:01:03 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about >System 7 later...) This is a problem. I'm assuming that the 200Mb HD is not out of a Mac, and as such does not have the Mac Firmware. If this is the case, your cheapest alternative is to get a Hard Drive that does. You can get software that will let you work with non-Macified HD's, but it's not worth it in this case (i.e. the software costs more than a used HD would). You can get System 7.0.1 off of one of the Apple FTP sites. >Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce >these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? >(I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format >the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) >------- I've heard of software that will let you do this, but haven't tried any of it. I have used 720k floppies in a Mac, but they were formatted on an Amiga, using a Macintosh emulator (I was really surprised they worked). Is 'hfstools' a Linux package? I seem to remember hearing of something like that for Linux. Even if you could format the SCSI HD with it, I don't think it would work, as you need certain software partitions on the Hard Drive. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Aug 7 21:59:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <146d8274.35cbbf16@aol.com> In a message dated 8/7/98 10:17:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, healyzh@ix.netcom.com writes: > >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > >System 7 later...) you have to run the apple hdsc setup program that should be able to identify and init the external drive. if it's not a genuine apple drive, it won't do it. if that's the case, i could send you a program to do it. david From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Aug 7 16:43:34 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: On the brink of bidding...IMSAI Message-ID: <007b01bdc24c$8a4199e0$f7aefea9@mainoffice> You know, I usually don't bid on anything on eBay unless: (1) it's a low-demand Commodore or Apple item that I want which is (2) less than $20. This time, it's different. I'm intrigued by the IMSAI 8080 listing. It hurts me to think about paying real $$$ for a 20-year-old machine. At $356 (the last bid that I saw today), it's only, what, $150 cheaper than it was when new? It reminds me of the $1500 Altair a few months ago. I don't have one...I want one...I'd give almost anything in my collection for a working one. I just don't want to get screwed by frenzied bidding. If I'm thinking about that kind of $$, I'd much rather see it go to someone that I know. So, if someone on this list would like to save me from myself, let me know. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 7 22:47:59 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <004701bdc27f$563fd160$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me personally. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 8:45 PM Subject: Apple III & Profile > >Greetings, > >I finally got around to trying the Profile hard drive someone gave me, >with my Apple III, but I can't get it to work. I haven't tried >formatting, but I wan't to leave that as a 'last resort', in case there's >something useful on the drive. > >I opened up the drive when I first got it, to see what's inside. The >actual drive mechanism is a full-height 5.25" jobbie, and IIRC it's 5MB. >I don't remember who the manufacturer was. > >I power up the drive first, and wait until the READY light stops blinking. >I have no Apple III docs, I just 'guessed' that that was the proper >procedure. I don't know if it is yet. > >I then boot up the III with the SOS 1.3 Utilities disk. I've used the >configuration program to make .PROFILE active. The configuration file >reports the following: > >item field value > 1 - Device Name................ .PROFILE > 2 - Device Type................ $D1 Block, Read, Write ( range 00..FF ) > Formatter present; NonRemovable > 3 - Device Subtype............. $02 ( range 00..FF ) > 4 - Driver Status.............. ACTIVE > 5 - Comment > Apple /// SOS Profile Driver (C) Copyright 1981, Apple Computer Inc. > 6 - Configuration Block data > > Slot Number................ 04 > Unit Number................ $00 > Manufacturer ID............ $0001 Apple > Block Count................ $2600 (9728) > Version ID................. 1.00 > >I can't edit the configuration block data, though. If I go down to item 6 >and hit RETURN, I get to the "Edit Driver Configuration Block" screen, >which looks like it should have at least 16 values on it. It only >displays "[FF]" at location 00, though, and although it says I can use >arrows to go to other values, the arrows don't do anything. > >If I go to the "Device handling commands" section from the main menu, and >attempt to Verify .PROFILE, the READY light on the Profile blinks, there >is a clicking noise, and the READY light goes out. The program reports >".profile - Volume not found". The READY light stays out for a while, >blinks a few times, then comes back on and stays on. > >If I go to "List devices configured", it pauses when it gets to .PROFILE, >and reports "(no directory)", and the drive behaves exactly as with >Verify. > >It's possible the drive just needs to be formatted, but as I said, I don't >want to do that until I'm sure there's nothing salvageable on it. > >I'm not even sure I've got the cabling right. I assumed it takes a >straight-through 25-pin cable from the ProFile controller to the drive >unit. No twists or turns along the way? > >Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. >I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it >seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. > >Any helpful info will be appreciated. > >Hopefully I don't get frustrated and try formatting the unit before I get >a reply. :) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 7 22:49:00 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: References: <199808070212.TAA04142@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980807204900.00701b2c@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi William: I've never heard of these, but am supposing that they are some type of heat sink. If you can give me a better description I can see if I can get some. I will be going back to the machine room next week. Kevin At 05:13 PM 98/08/07 -0400, you wrote: >> First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of >> DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge >> tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water >> cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and >> was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten >> years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, >> and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would >> do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. > >Too far away! > >If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out >of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut >like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs >will come in really handy! > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Fri Aug 7 19:05:30 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980807204900.00701b2c@ferrari.sfu.ca> References: Message-ID: <199808080341.XAA00910@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 20:49:00 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kevin McQuiggin > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: RED ALERT! Mainframes Available - Vancouver BC! > Hi William: > > I've never heard of these, but am supposing that they are some type of heat > sink. Nooo... under that heatsink, those is vital chips so heavy with copper, thick plated of gold. (That's why the scapper is anxious to grab this one.) No wonder they're so hard to find now for replacements. Oh, I have no idea how big or how easy to take that module apart to expose the circuit board loaded iwth those chipsets on it? And how big the heatsink attached, (I know if that is big that would be heavy) Plans: have one of these as chat piece but not to destory one for anyone's sake for future.... Jason D. > > If you can give me a better description I can see if I can get some. I will > be going back to the machine room next week. > > Kevin > > > At 05:13 PM 98/08/07 -0400, you wrote: > >> First, an IBM Mainframe, ES/3090 400-J, several hundred MB RAM, many GB of > >> DASD (thats HD to us non-big iron folks), 1/4" tape drives, cartridge > >> tape, consoles, 3270 and newer terminals, chiller (system is water > >> cooled), power supply unit, media, etc. This system runs MVS, also MTS and > >> was the main computer for a campus of 20-30,000 for a period of about ten > >> years. The machine is circa 1986 and is available to anyone who wants it, > >> and will take it away!! I'd suggest that two to four semi-trailers would > >> do the job, depending upon how many peripherals one wishes to acquire. > > > >Too far away! > > > >If at all possible, please grab the TCMs (Thermal Conduction Modules) out > >of the beast before the scrappers get it. Years from now, when some nut > >like me tries to fire up a 3090 and discovers a bad chip, those extra TCMs > >will come in really handy! > > > >William Donzelli > >william@ans.net > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 7 19:23:51 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: References: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199808080426.AAA24877@smtp.interlog.com> On 7 Aug 98 at 19:01, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > >to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > >a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > >How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > >System 7 later...) > > This is a problem. I'm assuming that the 200Mb HD is not out of a Mac, and > as such does not have the Mac Firmware. If this is the case, your cheapest > alternative is to get a Hard Drive that does. You can get software that > will let you work with non-Macified HD's, but it's not worth it in this > case (i.e. the software costs more than a used HD would). All non-Mac HDDs have this problem. Apple wanted to monopolize their market. It's been a while since I struggled with my Mac+ but there are several programs IIRC that you can use to format your HDD so the Mac will accept it. I'm not sure but check out the Silverlining page they have a free or shareware Lite program. There is likely something as well in the classicmac archives http://www.zws.com/classicmacs/ > You can get System 7.0.1 off of one of the Apple FTP sites. > There's some debate that 6.0.8 is faster on the earlier Macs than System 7. > >Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce > >these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? > >(I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format > >the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) > >------- > Just format the ddds disks on the Mac. DOS adds stuff which brings it down to 720k . I've also heard you can format them on the Atari ST (10 sectors vs 9 on DOS ? ) but I've never tried it yet. > I've heard of software that will let you do this, but haven't tried any of > it. I have used 720k floppies in a Mac, but they were formatted on an > Amiga, using a Macintosh emulator (I was really surprised they worked). > > Is 'hfstools' a Linux package? I seem to remember hearing of something > like that for Linux. Even if you could format the SCSI HD with it, I don't > think it would work, as you need certain software partitions on the Hard > Drive. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > > lwalker@interlog.com From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 8 00:07:27 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: S-100 mania In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wayne Cox wrote: > We have a strange one still cranking here at work. An S-100 bus > multi-processor system with CPU & memory cards from a place called > Teletek. Runs something called Turbo Dos. Looks sort of like CP/M hacked > to channel I/O from the multi-processors through one master cpu & disk > controller (with an ST-225, hoo boy. got a box of them too!) and some > primitive file privledges. Anyone else encountered such a beast? > > -Wayne Cox Nothing strange about that! A classic example of multi-user, multi-processor, networked Z80 machinery. Very dependable and easily expanded or altered, Pity that Billy didn't steal that one. DOS might even be worth having! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Aug 8 07:13:30 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <00fb01bdc2c7$c82b4000$f7aefea9@mainoffice> On Fri, 7 Aug 1998 14:52:56 -0400, Salzman, Jeff" wrote: >>If I recall, the two prong VIC-20 power supply is simply a 9VAC 1A power >>supply. You can get or fabricate a replacement from Radio Shack parts. >>If you are replacing an existing dead P/S, you have the connector(s) you >>need to connect to a 9VAC transformer. If not, the connector is similar >>to the old AC power cables which were used on the '80s portable cassette >>players/radios or Remington electric razors. Right. R/S has two cords (278-1254 and 278-1256), but I think that the -1256 is the one. For the power supply, I bought a 9vAC 3.4a surplus power supply (Atari, I think) for $5 from Marlin P. Jones & Assoc., one of my favorite surplus catalogs. They carry a lot, but it seems that they specialize in power supplies of various types. When I'm building something, I go to them for the power portion of the project. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Aug 8 09:52:54 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Xpost: HP item help wanted Message-ID: <35CC6645.E5DC9517@bbtel.com> If anyone can help him, please email him direct, not me. I have a feeling these items are not PC related. --------------------------------------------------------- Norman Johns Burton, Mi USA - Saturday, August 08, 1998 at 08:57:44 Antique HP 50720A cdrom and CM 153/03 controller board. Looking for information/drivers for the above. This cdrom has a special 16 pin ribbon connector from it to the control board, another 10 pin ribbon connector???, a 5 switch DIP switch packet, plus the 4 pin power connector. The controller card has only 1 jumper block with 4 jumper positions. HELP! HELP! please. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:51:26 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13378157033.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> hfstools is a Unix trick. It will compile under most normal *nixes. (Or it's supposed to...) I think I can make a 720k HFS disk. Let me go dig one out and I'll see... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:53:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <146d8274.35cbbf16@aol.com> Message-ID: <13378157387.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [If it's not an Apple drive...] No, it's a Rodime device. Currently has a useless VAX/VMS volume on it. If you have something which can do the trick, email a copy to daniel@opobo.umtec.com, please? ------- From mark_k at iname.com Sat Aug 8 10:55:11 1998 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998 "Lawrence Walker" wrote: > All non-Mac HDDs have this problem. Apple wanted to monopolize >their market. It's been a while since I struggled with my Mac+ but >there are several programs IIRC that you can use to format your HDD >so the Mac will accept it. I'm not sure but check out the Silverlining page >they have a free or shareware Lite program. There is likely something as >well in the classicmac archives http://www.zws.com/classicmacs/ Here's something that I found on a web page: Apple HD SC Setup 7.3.5 has a hidden switch to let you format ANY hard disk. To enable it you must edit resource "wfwr", ID 67 and change $00 to $ff ! [Use ResEdit to achieve this.] It seems to work; at least, HD SC Setup no longer quits on my (emulated) Mac with SCSI MO drive. Haven't got a blank disk to test it out fully though. (Aside: Is the old pre-System 6 Mac OS software still on the Apple site?) -- Mark From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Aug 8 09:59:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. In-Reply-To: <199808080426.AAA24877@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <13378158433.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Format floppies with Macintosh] And then they become 800k disks, which a PC can't read. [HDD setup stuff costs more than drive is worth.] This is another thing I hate, when companies use software checks to enforce hardware monopolies. That's SOOOO stupid. Any hardware could do, but the O/S makes sure it's a Genuine XXYZ-Corp. device and barfs if it's not. Guess I just get to deal with the internal HDD... (I think it's 20 meg, but it makes scary noises...) Buying new gear for this is out of the question. ------- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Aug 8 09:54:18 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: My Retirement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A few people have asked what's the deal? Didn't I retire from collecting antique computers? Well, I did part with some Tandy and Commodore equipment. Had some offers for some other equipment. There was one piece of equipment I got paid for and only just got around to sending out (variety of reasons, not JUST laziness). But some of my ham buddies got me involved in some packet radio projects. So that got me back into the mindset of electronic equipment. So, my wife catches me out in the garage one day sitting on a folding chair staring at the PDP-8is (it's an environmentally controlled garage attached to the house so don't worry) and the 11/84 and the 11/34. She asks me, "How are you going to get them downstairs?" and without thinking I say, "I'm not sure...I think I'll have to disassemble them and have you help me take them down in pieces." She knows me pretty well. So I guess I'm unretired. Sometimes everyone needs a break to get some perspective or something. My new job isn't NEARLY as time-consuming of my personal time and the business I started requires only 15 hours per month. On other, more relevant notes, I saw an AT&T 3B2/400 with full manuals and disks at PHDARA (Kansas City Hamfest) a couple weeks back for $40. But I'd already spent my alottment of cash on a 2 meter rig and associated hardware I required. I was going to get the guys number but someone finally bought it. :-/ My boss used, until about a month ago, an Apple IIgs for his accounting system. He said it was more powerful, flexiable and reliable than any of the various PC or Mac accounting software he'd tried. It's still running but the book-keeper is doing double entry into the old system and the new system (SickBooks...er...QuickSand...er...Quickbooks! =) At any rate, he has PILES of Apple II stuff in his backroom that he said he'd give me as I demonstrated SOME use for it. He's also going to give me some sort of HP LaserJet (4P perhaps?) that he says just gives an error and won't even try to print anything. Interesting... =-) Tomorrow I'm going to the hamfest where I almost ALWAYS go home with interesting old antique computer bits and pieces. 3 or 4 years ago it was S-100 boards, last year it was 8" diskettes (lots of them some new). At any rate, I've been able to clean out my basement and make space for the PDPs down here and have had an opportunity to install 10baseT EVERYWHERE. This is one wired-up house! Anthony Clifton, KC0CUE From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Sat Aug 8 21:31:47 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SMD Interface Drives Message-ID: Hi Again, The Sun currently has 2x Fujitsu M2322K drives which appear to be SMD interface drives (on a xylogics 451 controller), is there any way to interface ohter kinds of drives into this interface? Also, I spotted an Apple IIGS for sale in a second-hand place down here, it looked complete but it was labelled "parts only". I asked why and the response was "It doesn't have a startup card", I assume this means disk. They want AUS$60 for it, I was thinking about offering them AUS$30, is this reasonable? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From MicroAge97 at aol.com Sat Aug 8 12:43:39 1998 From: MicroAge97 at aol.com (MicroAge97@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: hello, I think you need a program called catylist.. dave From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 8 15:36:21 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Commodore Vic 20 power sup Message-ID: <7691937@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- You wrote: Hummm... I saw a large box full of those in an electronics store. Unfortunately, that was about two years ago, and the store is about two hours away by BMW (Bus, Metro, Walk). And they were charging something like $8 CDN each. The specs listed on the top of my VIC-20 power supply are: INPUT: 117V 47-63Hz 40W OUTPUT: 10VAC 30VA --- end of quote --- I think I'll wind up buying one from somebody else on the list anyway. Thank you though! -- MB ------------------------------------ "YOU! Out of the gene pool!" http://www.dartmouth.edu/~marionba From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Aug 8 15:48:35 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: <01bdc30d$e9a2e580$0a28a2ce@laptop> Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. manney@lrbcg.com From kyrrin at jps.net Sat Aug 8 16:24:34 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: My Retirement... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980808142434.00e42750@mail.wa.jps.net> At 09:54 08-08-98 -0500, you wrote: >A few people have asked what's the deal? Didn't I retire from collecting >antique computers? I knew it! I keep telling people, 'It's in the genes. If you truly love the field, and the equipment, scrounging is as much a part of you as breathing, and you'll not be able to give it up for any length of time.' Do they believe me? Nooooooo. Not until something like this happens. ;-) Welcome back. Mind the aisleway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From svs at ropnet.ru Sat Aug 8 20:33:01 1998 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Weitek "Multibus Array Processor" board Message-ID: <19980809013301.30556@firepower> G'day, I've come across aforementioned ISA board and some accompanying software. This is really a two-board set, held together firmly with screws. It uses two adjacent 8-bit ISA slots. On the top board the biggest chip is Weitek WTL1066 - a "FP data path" (Floating Point? Field Programmable?). There are no external connectors. How I can test it? Will it work in Pentium-class motherboards? (It currently sits in a computer very much alike the original IBM AT). What can I use it for? Cracking RC5 would be cool :) -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Aug 8 16:51:20 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SE Questions References: <199808080702.AAA07129@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> > From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Macintosh SE questions. > Message-ID: <13377942863.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> > > I got the SE to go. Now, I need to get the SCSI harddisk I have > to work for it. It has a (limited) version of System 6.0.8, and I have > a 200 meg SCSI external I plan on using. > How do I get the Mac to initialize the SCSI disk? (I can worry about > System 7 later...) There is a program called Apple Drive Setup SC or something to that effect which will format and prep 'apple' hard drives. (they rigged it so if the drive does not have an apple ROM it won't format it) but there are ways around that, check out: http://www.euronet.nl/users/ernstoud/scsi.html > Also, it has an 800k disk... Is there any way to cheat and make a PC produce > these? Or will the Mac take 720k disks too? Neither the Mac 800k format is done with a variable speed drive and is practically impossible to emulate in software (PC users can get around this by adding a Copy II PC option Board which bypasses the drive's controller for better flexibility.) My suggestion is to see if you can get a set of SE Superdrive ROMs and a 1.4HD drive for your SE then you can use 1.44 meg disks which CAN be read on a PC (Via MacChette) and also can read PC disks on the Mac (Via Apple File Exchange). :) > (I can make a Mac-formatted 720k disk with hfstools... But I can't format > the SCSI disk with it - no SCSI controller in the PC.) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sat Aug 8 16:59:20 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply References: <01bdc30d$e9a2e580$0a28a2ce@laptop> Message-ID: <35CCCA38.27985E82@bbtel.com> PG Manney wrote: > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > manney@lrbcg.com Try contacting a nearby C= reseller near Louisville, Jim Farris (aka Dr. Feelgood) by the email address lsited on his web site - http://www.aye.net/~feelgood/ He may have one or know who has them. He also has a lot of Amiga items. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 8 16:47:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 7, 98 09:55:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980808/b108ae2b/attachment.ksh From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:17:47 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Altair Attache? Message-ID: <19980809031748.15776.qmail@hotmail.com> Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks offered their input as to what this might be. I was asked to share any information about this unit if it became available to me. I have since acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone who might be interested. Here is the link... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg It was made by Pertec when they were still producing MITS branded systems. The case carries the name "Icom Attache". But the innards are all branded MITS. Even the keyboard. Electronically, it is an Altair 8800b with the addition of a MITS keyboard. It incorporates all the same MITS circuit cards and the same power supply board as the 8800b. For that reason it is essentially a keyboard Altair 8800. The serial number of this example is 153 which leads me to believe that a precious few were produced and it it is probably extremely scarce. I obtained it from an individual who worked for an Altair dealership which was in busuness in 1977 and 78 and he verifies that only a few were sold. I have docs on it. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:19:34 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? Message-ID: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks offered their input as to what this might be. I was asked to share any information about this unit if it became available to me. I have since acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone who might be interested. Here is the link... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg It was made by Pertec when they were still producing MITS branded systems. The case carries the name "Icom Attache". But the innards are all branded MITS. Even the keyboard. Electronically, it is an Altair 8800b with the addition of a MITS keyboard. It incorporates all the same MITS circuit cards and the same power supply board as the 8800b. For that reason it is essentially a keyboard Altair 8800. The serial number of this example is 153 which leads me to believe that a precious few were produced and it is probably extremely scarce. I obtained it from an individual who worked for an Altair dealership which was in busuness in 1977 and 78 and he verifies that only a few were sold. I have docs on it. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 8 22:27:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence > of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks > offered their input as to what this might be. > I was asked to share any information about this > unit if it became available to me. I have since > acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone > who might be interested. > Here is the link... > http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/50.jpg Wow! That is entirely exciting! What an incredible find. I guess you just proved to all the naysayers that there are still things out there yet to be discovered. Take good care of this one! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 8 22:43:54 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809031936.22222.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > Several weeks ago I inquired about the existence > of an "attache" version Altair. Several kind folks > offered their input as to what this might be. > I was asked to share any information about this > unit if it became available to me. I have since > acquired it and have uploaded some photos for anyone > who might be interested. You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. In any case, there's a guy who used to work at Pertec who might be able to give you more info. There's a reference to the Icom Attache on his web page: http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM -- Doug From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Aug 8 22:48:27 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 11/04 free; Message-ID: Hiya List: In the process of consolidating/thinning down my out-of-control collection, I think I will place my 11/04 system up for adoption. It is: 11/04 w/operator's console 7266 CPU 8265 CPU MOSTEK memory bd, 8001-H-00, unk (8K?) Plessey mem bd marked 64K depop to 48K 7856 SLU/RTC 7846 RX11 Plessey DMA? (can't remove w/out getting behind rack.) ACT Quad serial I/O unit. Plessey disk controller set and backplane (in seperate BA11 which I'm keeping to use later..) RX01 dual 8" floppy (2 ea) CDC Cealus (Ceali?) top-loading drives, accept RL02 packs (and probably are the same as RL02s) Plessey badged. Battery back-up unit H775A A load of cables, mebbe spare boards, engineering printsets, etc. I am also retaining the DEC rack it's in. I have had this machine partially on the air... it boots into ODT at the console, but I've never tried to boot from the big drives or the floppy. (This machine was removed from service and stored until I bought it, so it *used* to all work... it's not a mongrel system.) THE DEAL: I'm in Southern California. (Malibu). I am looking for a formatter card to use a standard 9-trk drive in a PDP-11/34a system, as well as the inteface card(s) to hook up my big System Industries drive to the '34A. I will disassemble and deliver the above items within a reasonable weekend day's drive, in return for the two devices mentioned (or at LEAST the tape card.) [Other gear related to PDP storage or any MINC stuff will be considered, too..] If, in two or three weeks, there is no response, I will GIVE the 11/04 system to the person who, IMHO, wants it in the worst way, ie. whining, importuning, pleading, tantrums, etc. will be considered..... BUT! given that scenario, you must come and pick it up and cart it off. This is a good 'starter' machine for someone (hopefully) on the list who wants to get going in PDP-land. Note to the adventureous: the combined weight is about 500lb... shipping ain't an option....... Cheers John From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Aug 8 23:05:48 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help Message-ID: Hello List: I have some interlinked questions for the Assembled Gurus: I am trying to understand device adressing in the system as a whole.. is there a good 'base/vector addr for dummies' document I could be pointed at? I have looked (sunsite, etc) and I'm still missing something. I *did* find out how to find the backplane jumper to be removed when installing the RL11... after I discovered it, I notice some kind soul put a red sleeve on the CA1 pin on each of the slots.... Am I correct to assume that RL02s and RK05s can coexist and co-operate in the same system? I am trying to construct a 'fully loaded' PDP11 system, and I want to have the entire range of peripherals available, so that I can perform media and format conversion, as well as have fun running the thing. Will one system support the RX02, 9trk, RL02, RK05, DECTAPE, Paper Tape, consoles and a few terminals, and maybe an Ethernet adapter? I realize this will take a one or two expansion chassis... but am I getting overly ambitious for one CPU? Should there be, maybe, two closely-coupled '11s sharing the load? Eventually I am aiming for a VAX 11/750. Would it be 'better' to wait and use it's resources, whatever they might be? I want to spend a little less time maintaining and a little more time computing... and I'm dying to run some of the DECUS stuff on my Machine. Thanks So Much (in advance) Cheers John From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 23:13:49 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? Message-ID: <19980809041349.1934.qmail@hotmail.com> Doug wrote: >You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while >back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the >Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. Doug, I emailed that guy four times offering to trade an Imsai for his Attache. He never even replied to me. So most likely he is still sitting on it. I am guessing that he received a lot of response so got suspicious about what he had. This is a different one. I was given the name of an Altair dealer and did some detective work and connected with one of it's former employees who had put some stuff in his attic when they closed the doors. I struck up a deal with him and last week drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. That 800 mile straight through return trip just about did me in. I'm getting to old for this. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 8 23:27:58 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Attache Altair 8800?? In-Reply-To: <19980809041349.1934.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > This is a different one. I was given the name of an Altair dealer > and did some detective work and connected with one of it's > former employees who had put some stuff in his attic when > they closed the doors. I struck up a deal with him and > last week drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. > That 800 mile straight through return trip just about did > me in. I'm getting to old for this. Well done, Bob! Miles traveled and pain suffered is a much better measure of the value of a system than mere dollars! Now, please excuse me while I go to work on the guy with the *other* Icom! -- Doug From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 23:36:44 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Altair Attache?? Message-ID: <19980809043645.5089.qmail@hotmail.com> Doug Yowza wrote: You lucky dog! You got this from the guy that was spamming usenet a while back about trading his Altair for an IMSAI, didn't you? He told me the Icom wasn't for sale when I asked him about it. Damn. Doug, First of all I apologize to everyone on the list for the wasted bandwidth caused by my screwed up posts. I use Hotmail to view the list because you guys are so prolific that it would load up my primary email folders. But Hotmail seems to have a problem with messing up my posts to the list as you can see. Oh well, since I only post to the list every three or four months maybe it will be tolerated. Anyway this was my reply to your message... My Attache is a different one from the one you made reference to. I too emailed that guy but he never replied to me. My guess is that he got a lot of response and got cold feet on the deal. He's most likely still sitting on it. A week ago I made contact with a former employee of an Altair dealer. When they closed the doors he put a bunch of the stuff in his attic. I struck up a deal and drove 1600 miles in three days to retrieve it all. The Attache was part of it. I worked for this one. The 800 mile straight through in one day trip just about did me in. I am getting too old for this. Bob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Sun Aug 9 00:02:24 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts Message-ID: So I started playing with my Atari 800. How do I work with disks? And what's the deal with this "Left Cartridge" / "Right Cartridge" thing? How does that work with something where it's obviously inappropriate, like with a 400 or 800XL? ok r. From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 00:05:22 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Millennium Microprocessor Dev. System In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, who needs Altairs. I've got this cool little box that's even more rare than the rarest Altair! (OK, it's not quite as historically interesting, but humor me anyway.) It's made by a (former) company called Millennium Systems Inc., and it's pretty much your basic modular development system with hex keypad, LEDs, and a breadboard. I was hoping somebody had either docs for it (I don't know how the breadboard interacts with the rest of the logic) or any "personality modules" for it (I got it with an 8088 module plugged in). -- Doug From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 00:20:46 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" Message-ID: <19980809052046.6639.qmail@hotmail.com> Came back with one other interesting item. I never knew there was such a thing as a 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here it is... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/Minidisk.jpg The bottom photo shows it on top of an Altair 8 inch drive to give you an idea of it's size. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 9 01:42:00 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Aug 9, 98 01:02:24 am Message-ID: <199808090642.XAA22760@saul1.u.washington.edu> > So I started playing with my Atari 800. > > How do I work with disks? And what's the deal with this "Left Cartridge" / > "Right Cartridge" thing? How does that work with something where it's > obviously inappropriate, like with a 400 or 800XL? I'm not an Atari expert -- the only 8-bit Ataris I've used are emulators. But I have read the manuals, so I'll try to help. Also, some of this info is online now. See http://pmwww.cs.vu.nl/home/ipoorten/Atari.8bit.Homepage/index.html Especially, look under DOCUMENTS and download the Atari System Reference Manual. It's pretty well-written and explains a lot. (It is weaker regarding the new machines, but you just have a plain 800 so that should be OK.) Also see http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~sidney/atari/ for some interesting memory maps. Now... in order to work with disks, you must: - Have the disk drive turned on before you turn on the computer. - Have a bootable disk (which contains a boot loader and OS files -- for most versions of the OS these files are DOS.SYS and DUP.SYS). - Turn on the computer and put the disk in the drive. - If BASIC is not installed. you'll see a utility menu (provided by the DUP.SYS program). If BASIC is installed, you'll see BASIC. Type "DOS" to get the utility menu. To get back to BASIC from DOS, I think you press A. See the System Reference Manual for programming info (including the assembly- language interface). As for cartridges, the right slot is only found on the 800 I think. The two slots occupy different blocks of memory. On the XL and XE machines, BASIC is in ROM, but it's in the exact same area as the 800's left cartridge slot. Cartridges can be different sizes (8K or 16K, I think 4K are also allowed) but I don't know how that affects matters on the various machines. Here's a quick memory map based on 6502 pages (1 page = 256 bytes): 0 Zero page. 1 Stack page. 2-5 Used by the OS, BASIC, floating-point routines, etc. 6 Free for your own use. 7-127 Main RAM area -- for machine-language or BASIC programs, DOS, display lists, etc. OS variables MEMLO, MEMTOP, APPMHI create partitions in this memory space. 128-159 Right cartridge slot, or RAM if there's no cartridge there. 160-191 Left cartridge slot, or RAM if there's no cartridge there. (Only cartridge slot on most machines. BASIC ROM on XL and XE, or RAM if BASIC is disabled.) 192-199 Unused. (Chips such as Omnimon go here. On the XL and XE, this is RAM (or cartridge ROM?)). 200-207 Unused. (On the XL and XE, the OS starts here.) 208-215 Registers of the hardware chips (ANTIC, GTIA, Pokey, etc.). 216-223 Possibly more hardware registers, or possibly unused (the manual is contradictory on this point). 224-227 The character set. 228-255 OS ROM on all machines (except for the last eight bytes, which are reserved for 6502 vectors). I think the Atari has a very sensible design, actually (though there are some flaws). With enough looking around on USENET you should be able to find all sorts of fun things to do with your machine. Good luck, -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 9 03:48:38 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Atari 800 carts In-Reply-To: <199808090642.XAA22760@saul1.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 8, 98 11:42:00 pm Message-ID: <199808090848.BAA00735@saul9.u.washington.edu> I wrote: > - If BASIC is not installed. you'll see a utility menu (provided by > the DUP.SYS program). If BASIC is installed, you'll see BASIC. > Type "DOS" to get the utility menu. To get back to BASIC from DOS, > I think you press A. I switched machines and fired up the emulator. You actually press B (Run Cartridge) instead of A (Disk Directory). -- Derek From afritz at delphid.ml.org Sun Aug 9 05:04:39 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes Message-ID: This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's got this many people that know what they're talking about... I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK After reading (on this list) that the old HP terminals had something called "block mode", I was wondering what it meant here. Also, what's FDX and HDX? The first thing that came to my mind was Full Duplex and Half Duplex, but I don't know how those would apply. Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and *BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. And it is just generally awkward looking. (And the arrow keys don't work in pine, but that's not terribly critical.) It doesn't act in a logical way at times. What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for the AS/400 (they had a whole mess of IBM twin-ax terminals for that). af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Aug 9 06:42:33 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh SE questions. Message-ID: <000b01bdc38a$cc9baee0$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> There is a very easy free way to get that HD to work. There is a free patch on the web for HD Setup, and it works, just do a search for it. If you cant' find it, I'll jump on my mac and email it to you. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel A. Seagraves To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 08, 1998 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Macintosh SE questions. >[Format floppies with Macintosh] >And then they become 800k disks, which a PC can't read. > >[HDD setup stuff costs more than drive is worth.] >This is another thing I hate, when companies use software checks to enforce >hardware monopolies. That's SOOOO stupid. Any hardware could do, but the >O/S makes sure it's a Genuine XXYZ-Corp. device and barfs if it's not. >Guess I just get to deal with the internal HDD... >(I think it's 20 meg, but it makes scary noises...) >Buying new gear for this is out of the question. > >------- From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 9 09:53:55 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 09:05:48 pm Message-ID: <199808091453.KAA10749@shell.monmouth.com> > > > > Hello List: > > I have some interlinked questions for the Assembled Gurus: > > I am trying to understand device adressing in the system as a > whole.. is there a good 'base/vector addr for dummies' document I > could be pointed at? I have looked (sunsite, etc) and I'm still > missing something. I *did* find out how to find the backplane jumper > to be removed when installing the RL11... after I discovered it, I > notice some kind soul put a red sleeve on the CA1 pin on each of the > slots.... > > Am I correct to assume that RL02s and RK05s can coexist and > co-operate in the same system? No problem. > > I am trying to construct a 'fully loaded' PDP11 system, and I want > to have the entire range of peripherals available, so that I can > perform media and format conversion, as well as have fun running the > thing. > > Will one system support the RX02, 9trk, RL02, RK05, DECTAPE, Paper > Tape, consoles and a few terminals, and maybe an Ethernet adapter? I > realize this will take a one or two expansion chassis... but am I > getting overly ambitious for one CPU? Should there be, maybe, two > closely-coupled '11s sharing the load? > Should be no problem if it's configured correctly. > Eventually I am aiming for a VAX 11/750. Would it be 'better' to > wait and use it's resources, whatever they might be? > Do both. The real trick is to find a Unibus Switch and use the same bus on both! Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 9 10:12:26 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980809081226.00e43280@mail.wa.jps.net> At 03:04 09-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's >got this many people that know what they're talking about... > >I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK > >After reading (on this list) that the old HP terminals had something >called "block mode", I was wondering what it meant here. Also, what's FDX >and HDX? The first thing that came to my mind was Full Duplex and Half >Duplex, but I don't know how those would apply. You're correct on block mode. Block is often used in cases where the host computer downloads an electronic form to the terminal's display. The titles and format of the form itself are protected, so you just fill in the fields and press enter. Away it goes. Example: Most IBM mainframe terminals (the 3270'ish species) are block mode devices. As for FDX and HDX, you're right on with the meanings. Some early host computers couldn't handle full duplex, hence the option for the terminal to do half duplex. Also, HDX will echo what is typed locally; FDX will not. I'm not sure what H-BLK is. >Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and >*BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. >And it is just generally awkward looking. (And the arrow keys don't work >in pine, but that's not terribly critical.) It doesn't act in a logical >way at times. The Wyse 50 can emulate a couple of different terminals. Make sure its emulation setting and what Linux is expecting agree with each other. >What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a Any compatible serial port. ;-) I've seen 'em used on everything from IBM compatibles to big mainframes, and I've also seen them used by my fellow radio hamateurs as packet terminals in conjunction with a TNC and radio. >AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for >the AS/400 (they had a whole mess of IBM twin-ax terminals for that). AS/400's are, as I recall, capable of accomodating serial terminals. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 9 11:11:17 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Adam Fritzler wrote: > This is probably not a 10yr thing, but I don't know any other list that's > I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK Oh.. those date back to at least 1984 or 85, so you're ok there ;) You're correct on the full/half duplex thing. The half-dup just causes the transmitted keys to display on the screen, without echoing them back from the host. Block allowed you to locally fill in data on the screen, then press a key to xmit the whole screen back to the host. I've never seen anything that used block-mode, besides IBMs and their proprietary terminals. The FDX mode is probably the thing for 98% of what you might connect it to. > Also, are these terminals just really lacking features or are Linux and > *BSD just not running it right? It seems that tabs get ignored, for one. Somewhere in the setup is an "emulation" parameter. Many of these were configured to emulate Adds terminals. Which had some of the most stupid, agravating, annoying command sequences and quirks ever dreamed up. Set it to WY-50 mode, enable the "enhanced" parameter, and check if your OS has a driver for this setup. It should behave much better. > What were these terminals meant to be used with? I got this one from a > AS/400 installation, though I don't know if it was ever actually used for Probably one of the most popular dumb terminals ever built... Used with all kinds of multi-user mini and micro systems to this day. Including DEC, DG, Prime, HP, NCR, Pick, Altos, and all flavors of unix platforms. They're not the most reliable things; prone to blowing caps on the crt/psu board after a couple years of service, but easily fixed. -Wayne Cox From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Aug 9 11:09:24 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" In-Reply-To: "Bob Wood"'s message of Sat, 08 Aug 1998 22:20:46 PDT References: <19980809052046.6639.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199808091609.JAA17951@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > Came back with one other interesting item. > I never knew there was such a thing as a > 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here > it is... Hmm...why not? I've read that the iCom floppy disk controller was the first 5.25" disk controller for S-100. Not sure if that's true though. -Frank McConnell From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Sun Aug 9 11:35:35 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: I have just colleected a PDP-11/40 which is said to be working apart from the fact that the PSU has been removed. If I can find a PSU in the future then this will be my first 'lights and switches' machine. I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar There is a disk drive with them, but I see from the notice on the back of the drive that it is supposed to be connected to an interface card. As they have no cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. Regards Pete From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Aug 9 12:39:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply References: <199808090702.AAA07070@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CDDEC4.E464BC69@goldrush.com> > From: "PG Manney" > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > manney@lrbcg.com You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 12:45:20 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar There is a disk > drive with them, but I see from the notice on the back of the drive that > it is supposed to be connected to an interface card. As they have no > cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Aug 9 13:39:56 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Q-Bus 18-Bit to 22-Bit wirewrap? Message-ID: <35CDECFC.544C089A@halcyon.com> I have a really compact "PDP-11/23S" chassis that has an 18-bit Q-Bus backplane (4xQuad) in it. Although the circuitry for the Q-Bus is on traces of a PC card, there are also wirewrap pins extending out from the backplane. Am I naive to assume that I can convert this to a 22-bit Q-Bus by wirewrapping four or so lines? Any pointers on how to do this or on technique? Thanks, Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 14:38:35 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply References: <199808090702.AAA07070@lists4.u.washington.edu> <35CDDEC4.E464BC69@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35CDFABA.6EA44DC4@bbtel.com> I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks like a 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure the voltages are the same though they are in different places. Maybe he can use the C64 power supply and splice his old connector to the end of it? He'd have to have the pinouts of both to do this though. Larry Anderson wrote: > > From: "PG Manney" > > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > > > manney@lrbcg.com > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > Larry Anderson > -- > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 > Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 9 15:19:02 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Trip to Austria/Hungary References: Message-ID: <35CE0436.A95E4454@rain.org> We are heading over to Austria/Hungary at the end of August. While I am over there, I would like to see if I can pick up some of the older computers that might have been popular over that way. Anyone have any information on where to look and what I might expect to find? Even how to find :)! Thanks. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:43:47 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes Message-ID: I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I didn't have a blown powersupply , instead I had managed to short the power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^) However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and BA123 backplanes. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:45:39 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? Message-ID: I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just plug it in? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 16:48:59 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Trip to Austria/Hungary In-Reply-To: <35CE0436.A95E4454@rain.org> References: Message-ID: Isn't Hungary one of the places that has "Iron Curtain" PDP-11 clones? Zane >We are heading over to Austria/Hungary at the end of August. While I am >over there, I would like to see if I can pick up some of the older >computers that might have been popular over that way. Anyone have any >information on where to look and what I might expect to find? Even how >to find :)! Thanks. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:22:14 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? Message-ID: Ok, what are all you other Lisa owners talking about? I pulled my Lisa down to check to make sure the batteries haven't spilled out all over the place and didn't find any anywhere, and niether did I find any terminals where batteries would go. I've had this for 6 years now, and last year I featured it in the VCF exhibition and it booted right up, so it makes sense that I don't have a bettery leakage problem, but I'm wondering what other people have in theirs? Maybe mine is a later model Lisa with a different motherboard. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:23:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall >that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a >RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just >plug it in? I know RTF{PDP-11 Sunsite Docs} :^) OK, I figured that part out on my own, so am following up my original question with another question. What I've got are Teac FD-55GFR-149-U drives, which I see from the document on 3rd party disks can be used as RX33's. So, can a RX33 read RX50 disks? At this time, I don't care about being able to write them, just read them. Don't be to surprised if I come back with some questions on 3rd party Q-Bus floppy controllers :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:25:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <35CDFABA.6EA44DC4@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks > like a 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure > the voltages are the same though they are in different places. Larry was suggesting he de-solder the Plus/4 connector and replace it with a C64 connector, which is pin compatible with the Plus/4 connector. > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > > From: "PG Manney" > > > Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply > > > > > > Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. > > > > > > manney@lrbcg.com > > > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > > > Larry Anderson > > -- > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 > > Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: > > http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html > > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Aug 9 16:37:38 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:49 2005 Subject: SE Questions In-Reply-To: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <13378493122.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Get a 1.44 meg device...] Oh, are the floppies normal PC-issue parts? I also have a Powerbook 150, but the floppy's trash... Can I just shove a PC device in there? ------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 9 12:50:54 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a - RL02 Help In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 09:05:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980809/c958bce6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 9 12:35:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: 11/04 free; In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 8, 98 08:48:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980809/5acfb7a1/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:51:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: SE Questions In-Reply-To: <13378493122.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <35CCC857.D070D1E1@goldrush.com> Message-ID: >[Get a 1.44 meg device...] > >Oh, are the floppies normal PC-issue parts? I also have a Powerbook 150, >but the floppy's trash... Can I just shove a PC device in there? >------- Uh, no. In fact I've seen complete Macintosh systems with a 1.44Mb floppy for less than what a new floppy drive would set you back! The thing to remember is that these are self ejecting drives. If you've ever installed MS Office from floppy on both a Mac and a PC, you'll be convinced that the drives are worth the extra expense :^) In the case of the PowerBook 150, I think you've got to have a PB150 drive :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From afritz at delphid.ml.org Sun Aug 9 17:15:31 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Wyse terminal modes In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980809081226.00e43280@mail.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 03:04 09-08-98 -0700, you wrote: > > > >I've got a Wyse WY-50 terminal. From the menus, it's got four modes: > > FDX, BLOCK, HDX, H-BLK > > You're correct on block mode. Block is often used in cases where the host > computer downloads an electronic form to the terminal's display. The titles > and format of the form itself are protected, so you just fill in the fields > and press enter. Away it goes. Anywhere I can get documentation on this block mode? Sounds like it might be fun to mess with... Did the wy50 have it's own codes for block or was there some "standard"? (Somhow I doubt that, though.) af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 17:55:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Ok, what are all you other Lisa owners talking about? I pulled my Lisa >down to check to make sure the batteries haven't spilled out all over the >place and didn't find any anywhere, and niether did I find any terminals >where batteries would go. Sam, What model Lisa do you have? From what I've heard it's only a problem if you have a Lisa 2/5 (the Lisa 2 sold with the 5Mb external Profile drive). This is the model I've got, and I can guarentee that it is a SERIOUS problem with this model. The thing to remember is that you've got 4 different models of the Lisa: Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives Lisa 2 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy Lisa 2/5 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 5Mb external Profile HD Lisa 2/10 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 10 Mb internal Widget HD drive NOTE: not to sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 16:59:52 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > What model Lisa do you have? From what I've heard it's only a problem if > you have a Lisa 2/5 (the Lisa 2 sold with the 5Mb external Profile drive). > This is the model I've got, and I can guarentee that it is a SERIOUS > problem with this model. I never got around to figuring out what model it is. I always assumed it was a 2/5, but perhaps its a 2/10. Was the 2/10 very much later than the 2/5? > The thing to remember is that you've got 4 different models of the Lisa: > > Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives > Lisa 2 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy > Lisa 2/5 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 5Mb external Profile HD > Lisa 2/10 -- Internal 400k 3.5" floppy, 10 Mb internal Widget HD drive Oh! Ok, well then I have a 2/10. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 18:20:51 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions Message-ID: Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Any one have info on this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? How well do Boards with Boot ROMs co-exist with systems with another set of Boot ROMs? I'm threatening to throw the DQ606 in the 11/23 that I'm working on, so I can access the rack of drives that go with the controller. Well, I'm off to work on archiving some RX-50 floppies prior to actually trying to use them. Hopefully they're readable! So this should be a break in my steady stream of questions :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 9 17:44:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MITS Altair "Minidisk" Message-ID: <199808092244.AA10004@world.std.com> < > Came back with one other interesting item. < > I never knew there was such a thing as a < > 5.25 inch MITS Altair floppy drive. But here < > it is... < < Hmm...why not? I've read that the iCom floppy disk controller < was the first 5.25" disk controller for S-100. Not sure if < that's true though. It was the ICOM via pertec purchase and integrated into the altair line. Allison From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 17:47:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives [...] > NOTE: not too sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. Don't know about widget, but shouldn't flippy be twiggy? -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 19:33:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives >[...] >> NOTE: not too sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. > >Don't know about widget, but shouldn't flippy be twiggy? Um, yeah, that's it :^) Zane >-- Doug | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 9 19:35:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I never got around to figuring out what model it is. I always assumed it >was a 2/5, but perhaps its a 2/10. Was the 2/10 very much later than the >2/5? It's my understanding that the 2, 2/5, and 2/10 all came out at the same time. Basically it's a case of configuration. >Oh! Ok, well then I have a 2/10. Which I believe is why you've not seen the problem. Though the internal drive sounds more troublesome. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at jps.net Sun Aug 9 18:46:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Last chance: Free Printwheels Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980809164654.00e41520@mail.wa.jps.net> OK, gang, last chance! I have a pair of printwheels compatible with either the Diablo/Xerox 635 series printers or the Xerox 60 series MemoryWriters. They are NOT compatible with the MemoryWriter 600 series. I have one each, Courier 10 and Courier 12. Whoever wants them, they're yours for the cost of postage ($3.00 USPS Priority Mail). Let me know. If I don't hear anything by Tuesday night this week (the 11th), they're going in the trash. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Aug 9 19:38:11 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. You're weird > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 9 19:40:05 1998 From: Marion.Bates at Dartmouth.EDU (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Pete Joules wrote: I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar --- end of quote --- Just out of curiosity, what's a ][Eurostar? -- MB From Joshu2415 at aol.com Sun Aug 9 20:00:51 1998 From: Joshu2415 at aol.com (Joshu2415@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: old laptop Message-ID: The auction is called off. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 20:02:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Which I believe is why you've not seen the problem. Though the internal > drive sounds more troublesome. Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was required? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 20:21:07 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that will handle the job? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 20:22:58 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) References: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Francois wrote: > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > You're weird That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 9 21:27:16 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: IMSAI part needed In-Reply-To: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: This is a long shot, I know, but I need that part of an IMSAI case that attaches below the front-panel. It wouldn't be too hard to fabricate, but I'd prefer the real thing (actually, even better than the real thing would be the clone part from a TEI case, since it's my TEI clone that's missing this part). -- Doug From rhblake at bbtel.com Sun Aug 9 21:50:46 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <199808100202.WAA00762@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35CE6005.5E24DEE5@bbtel.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > If anyone has that driver could they send it to me, too? I have a Tandy > 1000TL 286 XT w/768K RAM, and no way to access it. Maybe the driver will > work in it, too. Maybe it won't - but it's worth a shot :-) Hmm, maybe I ought to check the Tandy support site...I'll send jason a copy should I locate one, don't worry about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 9 21:58:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <001501bdc3f7$3856e840$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. >> >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > >You're weird No, he's perfectly normal for California! Joe From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:18:05 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809231026.006caaec@netpath.net> Sometimes I see an EMM.SYS file on older DOS disks, but I can't recall which DOS disks. (Maybe IBM, or DR, or something else... At 08:21 PM 8/9/98 -0500, Russ Blakeman wrote: >Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, >with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a >special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an >animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that >will handle the job? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:18:08 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type connectors. Maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow. I love these yearly Hospice Flea Markets: Everything starts off at full price, Friday and Saturday. Sunday, all the prices drop by 50%, Monday, you give them a few bucks, and they'll let you cart off anything that is left. I hope the tradition still stands this year. I saw a Timex Sinclair 1000 (black, mebrane keyboard) along with some cassettes and mem expansion boxes for $5.00. If it's still there, I might pick it up if someone wants it. (What?!? He's not putting it on ebay to get $500.00 bucks for it? Is he crazy???) Yes I are! - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:32:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809233157.006c1398@netpath.net> Looking for some manuals for MKS Toolkit. It was a set of Unix utils packaged with a Korn shell that all ran under it's own command shell. Anyone ever hear of it? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:40:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > > > You're weird > > That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. Oh jeez. You don't have to tell me I'm beautiful. But then you will have to pay postage. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:45:36 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. So this is either a 1000HX or 1000EX. In all my travels, the only expansion cards I've ever seen were IN the computer. So your best bet is to scrounge around for Tandy 1000's of all different flavors (of which there are many) and check the back for serial expansion cards. Once you've found one, you can probably get the whole unit for under $10. You can then harvest the card and use the rest of the computer for parts or as part of your collection, cataloged under the "Barely Interesting" category. That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed where the serial port is on the back. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 9 22:46:13 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809233157.006c1398@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Looking for some manuals for MKS Toolkit. > > It was a set of Unix utils packaged with a Korn shell that all ran under > it's own command shell. > > Anyone ever hear of it? Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 9 22:47:14 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > will handle the job? Have you scanned the files in simtelnet/msdos/xxxx - accessible via oak.oakland.edu for files related to 'expamded memory' or 'ems'? - don > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:58:03 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> At 08:45 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed >where the serial port is on the back. Errr, I was pretty thorough. That's why I set it back down, because I saw no way to hook a modem to it. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Aug 9 22:58:06 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980809235750.006c1098@netpath.net> At 08:46 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and >kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? Uhh, what's the web??? :) Didn't think about doing a search, because of the age of the disks (1990). Will see what I find. - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From ian at okjunc.junction.net Sun Aug 9 23:07:14 1998 From: ian at okjunc.junction.net (Ian McLaughlin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. I actually owned one of these when it was new! Back then the only cards I ever saw were from Radio Shack. They made a serial card that would work fine for you. The unit will take up to 3 expansion cards. They piggy-back on top of each other via a header-type plug. The pin-outs are exactly the same as a PC slot, but a different connector. I have come across cards in my travels that have a standard PC connector on it, but also a place to solder on a header plug (the empty pads are there) - I've often wondered if these cards would work in a HX. ___ __ __ __ _ _ _ _ |_ _|__ _ _ _ | \/ / _| | __ _ _ _ __ _| |_ | (_)_ _ Okanagan | |/ _` | ' \ | |\/| \__| |_/ _` | | / _` | ' \| | | ' \ Internet |___\__,_|_||_| |_| |_| |___\__,_|___\__, |_||_|_|_|_||_| Junction Network Operations Centre |___/ Phone +1 (888) 944-INET From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Aug 9 23:11:56 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MKS Toolkit In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980809235750.006c1098@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Aug 9, 98 11:58:06 pm Message-ID: <199808100411.AAA08689@shell.monmouth.com> > > At 08:46 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >Yeah, its still pretty contemporary in fact. MKS is still alive and > >kicking as far as I know. Did you do a web search? > > Uhh, what's the web??? :) Didn't think about doing a search, because of the > age of the disks (1990). Will see what I find. > > - > - john higginbotham ____________________________ > - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > - limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > $ whois mks.com Registrant: Mortice Kern Systems Inc (MKS-DOM) 185 Columbia St W Waterloo, ON N2L 5Z5 CA Domain Name: MKS.COM Administrative Contact: White, Alex (AW120) ALEX@MKS.COM (519) 884-2251 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Toy, Andy (AT6) andy@MKS.COM +1 519 883-4333 Billing Contact: White, Alex (AW120) ALEX@MKS.COM (519) 884-2251 Record last updated on 08-Jun-98. Record created on 25-Jul-89. Database last updated on 9-Aug-98 03:38:59 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.1 NS.MKS.COM 198.73.192.2 AUTH01.NS.UU.NET 198.6.1.81 NS2.UUNET.CA 142.77.1.5 $ nslookup www.mks.com Server: dns1.monmouth.com Address: 205.231.236.1 Name: www.mks.com Address: 198.73.192.5 Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 10 00:54:54 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or >at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the >machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was >required? I would assume so. After all I can boot my 2/5 off of it's Profile drive, so the 2/10 should boot off of its internal. All I can say is good luck finding a drive, I gather they're harder to find that the floppies for the Lisa 1. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 00:54:47 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: Message-ID: <35CE8B26.A0CE3207@bbtel.com> Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Have you scanned the files in simtelnet/msdos/xxxx - accessible via > oak.oakland.edu for files related to 'expamded memory' or 'ems'? > I guess that's my next place to look....Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Mon Aug 10 01:45:41 1998 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) Is the image on the screen wrapping off of the edges, or is it all within a well-defined rectangle at the center of the screen? If it is the former, then it does sound like a horizontal sync problem; however, if it is the latter, then your Lisa has probably been fitted with the "screen kit upgrade", which changes the screen resolution from the Lisa's standard 720 x 364 to 608 x 431 to better approximate the Macintosh pixel shape and aspect ratio. The Office System doesn't recognize the "upgrade" and still writes to video memory assuming that it is in the original format, yielding a garbled screen. If you can find a copy of MacWorks, try it out. If MacWorks runs, then you will need to downgrade the upgrade (with original system ROMs, the video state "ROM", and the removal of the transformer included in the screen kit upgrade from the video circuit) to make this system run the Office System. > Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it > connect to one of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) > And to what should it be connected? The corroded nicad pack you mentioned earlier is a "feature" of the 2/5. On a 2/5, you should be able to plug a ProFile into the built-in parallel port, without using an expansion slot/card at all. A straight-through wired DB-25M - DB-25M cable (with pin 7 cut off on one end) should do the trick. -- Scott Ware ware@xtal.pharm.nwu.edu From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 9 02:41:29 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (desieh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <01ab01bdc369$28d6f380$de173ccb@6pac> -----Original Message----- From: MicroAge97@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, 9 August 1998 3:45 Subject: Re: Apple III & Profile >hello, > >I think you need a program called catylist.. > >dave > Hello but cant prodos access drives up to 32MB if size? *Desie* From desieh at southcom.com.au Sun Aug 9 02:43:15 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (desieh) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... Message-ID: <01be01bdc369$66a650c0$de173ccb@6pac> -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, 8 August 1998 12:17 Subject: Re: LISA: Ah nuts... >>I opened up my Lisa with the bad video (weird horizontal sync problem) >>and discovered that the batteries in the back have corroded and dripped >>down the I/O board. Some of the contacts that go into the motherboard >>have corroded and, without seeing a schematic, I'm wondering if this is > > >Oh, bleep. Let me guess you've got a Lisa 2/5. They're infamous for this >problem. I was able to get to mine just prior to the batteries really >messing stuff up. This is most likely the cause of your problems, any >chance of reparing the damage? > >>At any rate, I removed the offending batteries and will clean up the >>board. Are the batteries necessary? If so, what for? If so, what is a >>viable replacement for them? > >No, you can boot without them. IIRC it's a _slight_ annoyance not having >them, but it does work. Besides the clock won't go past 1995 so who cares >if that is wrong :^) > >>Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. >>Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should >>be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and >>an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one >>of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what >>should it be connected? > >I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on >the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem >is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't >remember what it is :^( > > Zane > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > Just a standard PC parallel cable should do the job.. *Desie* From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 03:02:51 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Sega AI Game Computer In-Reply-To: <01be01bdc369$66a650c0$de173ccb@6pac> Message-ID: Are you ready for this? Remember the Japanese and their lovable wack-o Fifth Generation projects? Oh, this is good. From a friend of mine: << Back in the heyday of AI in the early 80's, Sega was just a brand-new, fledgling game company. They did a stint with AI, and one of their earliest projects was the Sega "AI Game Computer", a little Prolog machine. The components are a flat touch screen with a cassette player/recorder(?) and a slot for inserting the game cards. It also comes with a small keyboard, where all the keys have both English and Japanese characters (I suspect this machine was only sold in Japan.) It also comes with an adaptor to plug it in to your TV, which acts as your monitor. Finally, it comes with several "game cartridges" which are completely exposed boards (no casing around them) that you insert into a slot. Only the first half inch or so goes into the slot - the rest of the naked board sticks straight up, totally exposed above the touch screen. >> Sounds like a prototype to me (and a *very* cool one). Anybody have more info? -- Doug From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Aug 10 03:25:17 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: >Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people are >mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives without >either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came with >the drive. From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 05:42:26 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 9, 98 03:20:51 pm Message-ID: <199808101042.GAA06847@user2.infinet.com> > > Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide > this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". So I've been told. > Any one have info on > this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? > It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can > just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. Presuming that it can be strapped at the alternate address (DLB0 on a uVAX, for example. Dunno the CSR), it should work fine. I always wanted to do this, but never had the jumper map to try it out. I figured I'd have to boot off of floppy, build a disk image on the DQ614 and then put a real RLV12 strapped to the alternate address on the system to copy data. > What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? The one I have used to have a Rodime 10 Mb 5.25" full-height MFM drive attached to it. I'd love to hear if an ST-251 would work. > Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter > marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really > want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. It's an ST-506 interface - 20 pin for analog data (one per drive, up to 4 supported, depending on the exact nature of the controller in question), and 34 pin (digital signals) for control (one per controller, including up to 4 drive select wires). > Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? Almost certainly not. It is a register-level emulation of the RLV11 or RLV12 (don't know which one). It would use the regular DL boot ROM on your system. > Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? No idea. If anyone out there has any data on this controller, please step forward. I've already checked with the RSX BBS web page, where several Dilog boards have had their documentation scanned in, but not the 614. I've had this card for over 10 years, known what it is, but unable to use it. I got it for free in a discarded "Dataram" PDP-11 clone. My former employer bought this as a tiny RSX system, w/11/23+ CPU, and DQ614 and half-height 8" floppy (with 3rd party controller), and it never worked right. Dataram weaseled out of supporting it under warranty, and I got to take home the corpse. After I fixed the lifted lead from the power connector, the 8" floppy booted much faster ;-) The box itself is kinda nice. It's rack mountable (10.5" tall) or table-top, with the included sides. There's a hole in the front panel for a half-height 8" floppy, and room inside for a 5.25" disk. It was the first enclosude that I ever saw for a DEC CPU, but for industry-standard peripherals. Other than the 8" floppy, a BA-23 is probably a better box. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 05:54:38 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 9, 98 01:43:47 pm Message-ID: <199808101054.GAA06929@user2.infinet.com> > However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the > backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC > had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and > remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and > BA123 backplanes. The BA-23 has 3 "CD" slots (Q-bus only on A and B, CD interconnect on C and D), and 6 "regular" Q-bus slots, with the Q-bus alternating from side to side. IIRC, the BA-123 has 5 CD slots, the rest standard. For anyone collecting FAQs, this is one. I can't recall how many times I've sent out an ASCII drawing on the backplane. I with I'd kept one. :-( -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Aug 10 07:01:20 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: $!!!! Re: Altair mania! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980807104846.489f143c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 7, 98 10:48:46 am Message-ID: <199808101201.IAA07593@user2.infinet.com> Joe writes: > At 02:13 AM 8/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >With all of the billionaires overbidding on ebay, Altairs are coming out > >of the woodwork! This should be interesting. Two are for sale (one from > >our own jimw), both have a "reserve", and one has a starting bid of $2500 > >which has already been met! > > > They don't call it E-Pay for nothing! I thought it was "E-overpay". -ethan From altair8800 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:19:11 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Altair prices! Message-ID: <19980810121912.14963.qmail@hotmail.com> No, I'm not talking about Ebay prices. Instead I thought you might be interested in seeing an original Altair Price list from July,1976. Here's the link to a jpeg of it... http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/25.jpg We have heard that the 680 was a failure because the 16k memory card for it cost more than the computer. Take a look at this list and you will see it in black and white. The 680 computer kit cost $466 ($625 assembled). The 16K memory card cost a staggering $685 as a kit and $865 assembled. That is a whopping $43 per 1k of memory. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 08:05:18 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX References: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35CEF00D.260C6AD1@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > I saw a Tandy 1000 HX at a local once a year flea market friday and was > wondering if the expansion cards it uses (non-standard) are hard to come > by. I'd like to get it and use it as a dial-in terminal with either a 300 > or 1200 baud modem, whatever is available. This is one of the one-piece > 1000s, and there's no RS-232 port, or DIN serial port connector on it, just > joysticks, ext. floppy, and printer connector, the last two are edge-type > connectors. > > Maybe I'll pick it up tomorrow. I love these yearly Hospice Flea Markets: > Everything starts off at full price, Friday and Saturday. Sunday, all the > prices drop by 50%, Monday, you give them a few bucks, and they'll let you > cart off anything that is left. I hope the tradition still stands this > year. I saw a Timex Sinclair 1000 (black, mebrane keyboard) along with some > cassettes and mem expansion boxes for $5.00. If it's still there, I might > pick it up if someone wants it. (What?!? He's not putting it on ebay to get > $500.00 bucks for it? Is he crazy???) Yes I are! The EX and HX cards, aka "Plus" cards are VERY hard to come by. I have a regular traffic of Tandy 1000 products through here and have only seen two HX's with hard drives, 3 with serial cards and most with the memory expansion. Many times when someone has one and is aware of their demand and low supply, they try to get E-Bay prices for this stuff. Tons of HX and EX units out there, most were not upgraded to hard drives. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 08:10:08 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX References: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35CEF12F.16DEEC3@bbtel.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:45 PM 8/9/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >That said, I'm no Tandy 1000 expert, but something tells me you missed > >where the serial port is on the back. > > Errr, I was pretty thorough. That's why I set it back down, because I saw > no way to hook a modem to it. If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be next (usually 25 pin) and then the HD controller after that. Why they are like this I have no idea, not sure if the unit wa smade specifically this way. There's a index of specification sheets at http://support.tandy.com/support_computer/1080.htm if you're curious about the machine from stock to add-ons. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:08:38 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MIT flea, Message-ID: <199808101308.AA26455@world.std.com> I plan to be at the MIT FLEA sunday the 16th, with loads of goodies for older systems and a stack of vax 3100s. Also over the weekend I scored a pair of compupro boxes one with 8085/8088 and the other 68000 based. Also a heath HW207 8" disk (dual drive) pragmatic designs 20mb sa4000 style disk Hard disks mfm software, software, software and manuals. enough Compupro boards to build another three systems A few intergrand disk boxen some DD DS 8" drives 8" 2S Media! A few Telvideo 9xx series terminals. If people need DOCs for compupro boards (ANY!!!) I have docs for them and a few others. Also I have a line on a ANADEX wide platen (15") printer that has serial/parallel interface. I have to many already. It's a nice one if you need something that takes wide paper. Not shipable (cheaply that is, as it would have to be crated to assure "arrive alive".) It's not that heavy but large. Allison From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 08:14:49 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <35CEF00D.260C6AD1@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.32.19980809231628.006c68cc@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980810091449.007ffc50@netpath.net> At 08:05 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >with hard drives, 3 with serial cards and most with the memory expansion. Many >times when someone has one and is aware of their demand and low supply, they >try to get E-Bay prices for this stuff. Tons of HX and EX units out there, most >were not upgraded to hard drives. Hard drive doesn't bother me so much. I can run everything I need off a floppy, but if the cards are that hard to come by, I think I'll pass on it if I can't get it for less than $5. From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 08:16:54 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <35CEF12F.16DEEC3@bbtel.com> References: <3.0.32.19980809235613.006c1b2c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980810091654.007ff740@netpath.net> At 08:10 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's >been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be I slid the cover back, nothing there, which is what I assumed, since I saw no ports sticking out the back. Funny, even the CoCo series had a serial port on the back. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:26:46 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: Altair prices! Message-ID: <199808101326.AA10300@world.std.com> < We have heard that the 680 was a failure < because the 16k memory card for it cost more than < the computer. Take a look at this list and you It was a failure because MITS as per their style had a nifty box that not SS50. By that time SWTP and others had accepted SS50 as the bus for 6800 and later 6809 systems. The 680 however was without question industrial strength but it's bus was totally unique to the 680, that type of this was VERY unpopular concept back then. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 08:54:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: TI99: ftp sites Message-ID: <199808101354.AA02243@world.std.com> < To be honest, I think that programming a SLIP interface would be a < complete waste of time. No service providers I know of allow SLIP < connections anymore. PPP would be the better choice. Please, dont say that... all my net access is using slip (actaully slirp). Allison From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Mon Aug 10 08:59:40 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:50 2005 Subject: MIT flea, Message-ID: <199808101417.KAA14196@charity.harvard.net> Allison, I'll be there too. Maybe we can talk about S-100 cards then. :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 9:09 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: MIT flea, > > > I plan to be at the MIT FLEA sunday the 16th, with loads of > goodies for > older systems and a stack of vax 3100s. > > Also over the weekend I scored a pair of compupro boxes one > with 8085/8088 > and the other 68000 based. > > Also a heath HW207 8" disk (dual drive) > pragmatic designs 20mb sa4000 style disk > Hard disks mfm > software, software, software and manuals. > enough Compupro boards to build another three systems > A few intergrand disk boxen > some DD DS 8" drives > 8" 2S Media! > A few Telvideo 9xx series terminals. > > If people need DOCs for compupro boards (ANY!!!) I have docs for them > and a few others. > > Also I have a line on a ANADEX wide platen (15") printer that has > serial/parallel interface. I have to many already. It's a > nice one if > you need something that takes wide paper. Not shipable (cheaply that > is, as it would have to be crated to assure "arrive alive".) > It's not > that heavy but large. > > Allison > From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Aug 10 10:03:58 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: PDP 11/44 system available In-Reply-To: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> References: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> Message-ID: <35cf0b9b.1090142291@smtp.wa.jps.net> Good Lord... all of a sudden, they're popping up all over the place. Contact this fellow directly if you'd like an 11/44. -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:16:38 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>Message-ID: <35CE15E2.7E89@tessellabs.com> >>From: Asa Wilson >>Reply-To: awilson@tessellabs.com >>Organization: TesselLabs >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-KIT (Win95; U) >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: PDP 11/44 system available >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Lines: 6 >>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:16:38 GMT >>NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.74.130.98 >>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:16:38 CDT >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!uunet!in1.uu.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!news1.i1.net!not-for-mail >> >>I am trying to dispose of a complete PDP 11/44 system. A flyer >>describing the system can be viewed at http://tessellabs.com/decflyrf. >> >>Asa Wilson >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From sethm at loomcom.com Mon Aug 10 12:26:49 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: PDP 11/44 system available In-Reply-To: <35cf0b9b.1090142291@smtp.wa.jps.net> from "kyrrin@jps.net" at Aug 10, 98 03:03:58 pm Message-ID: <199808101726.KAA27099@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/1efc4eb5/attachment.ksh From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Aug 10 13:31:25 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: 1.2Mb floppy as RX-50? References: Message-ID: <35CF3C7D.8428F5D3@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I don't really trust the one RX-50 drive I've got, and I seem to recall > that it is possible to hook up a 1.2Mb floppy from a PC drive as 1/2 of a > RX-50 drive. Is there anything special that needs to be done, or do I just > plug it in? Jerome Fine replies: The only time I did this, it just worked. But then, I was using an actual RX23 from DEC. Plus, you MUST have an RQDX3 controller. An RQDX2 and an RQDX1 WILL NOT WORK with an RX33. Plus, if you want to WRITE to the floppy, you MUST (I have not tried anything else, but I have been strongly advised) use the HD 5 1/4" floppy disks. The hardware format is identical to that for the PC and the number if blocks is 2400 instead of only 800 for an RX50. If you are able to get the first RX33 working and you do not like the open aspect of the drive, I have seen a second RX33 drive mounted along with the first RX33 - both right side up - inside the shell of the RX50 dual that you have which does not work very well. This solves the problem of protecting an open drive. I do have 3 spare RX50s which I could trade. I had been keeping them for a while and now that much of the PDP-11 software can be run on a PC, the RX50s are no longer as important. If you still want to use the RX50 media, you can FORMAT them (MAKE SURE THEY ARE DSDD floppy diskettes) on the PC using a program called PUTR (written by John Wilson): http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, you MUST use a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive. You can also read and write both RX50 and RX33 floppy diskettes on the PC with an RT-11 file structure. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 14:20:33 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Q-Bus 18-Bit to 22-Bit wirewrap? Message-ID: <199808101920.AA26841@world.std.com> Please pardon if this has already been answered... I've been away for a week at the Worldcon (world science fiction convention) >I have a really compact "PDP-11/23S" chassis that has an 18-bit Q-Bus >backplane (4xQuad) in it. Although the circuitry for the Q-Bus is on >traces of a PC card, there are also wirewrap pins extending out from >the backplane. Am I naive to assume that I can convert this to a >22-bit Q-Bus by wirewrapping four or so lines? Any pointers on how to >do this or on technique? Not naive at all... I've done it on at least one of my H9270 backplanes at home... I know of many others who have as well. If I remember correctly, you need to buss the BC-BF lines (and for Q-Q backplanes, DC-DF), but I would have to verify this... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 14:30:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Heath H-89 in Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <35CF3C7D.8428F5D3@idirect.com> Message-ID: Please reply directly to the seller (it might be free, I don't know): << If you are interested in acquiring a Heath H-89, we can talk. I have one that I have taken out of service a while back; it has hard sector controller as well as I got source code for one of the several levels of HDOS. Austin, Tx is location. Howard Glueck (glueck@austin.ibm.com) >> From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Aug 10 14:33:27 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13378732660.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Twiggy] What's a twiggy? ------- From mbg at world.std.com Mon Aug 10 14:34:17 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions Message-ID: <199808101934.AA08183@world.std.com> >Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field >Guide this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Any one have >info on this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives >attached? It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive >if I can just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. They should work, but only if you set them up to run at an address different from the standard address for RLseries disks. >How well do Boards with Boot ROMs co-exist with systems with another set >of Boot ROMs? I'm threatening to throw the DQ606 in the 11/23 that I'm >working on, so I can access the rack of drives that go with the >controller. Depending on the boot rom, a standard address is 773000. You can't have two sets of boards which respond the this address (and there isn't a standard I am aware of for assigning alternate boot code to an address). On systems which I have configured which had boot code on the controller card, the standard boot code had to be disabled. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Marty at itgonline.com Mon Aug 10 14:58:54 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? Message-ID: <1998Aug10.155637.1767.127596@smtp.itgonline.com> The LISA (1) originally shipped with dual 5 1/4" floppy drives which were nick-named twiggy drives. I don't have all the gory details but Apple manufactured these drives and they were a disaster. All the information you need can be found at Eric Smith's web site entitled Twiggy Disk information: www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/lisa/twiggy.html Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Lisa battery leakage?? Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 8/10/98 3:36 PM [Twiggy] What's a twiggy? ------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Aug10.153640.1767.56401; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:36:41 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA06303; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:17 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id MAA71918 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:13 -0700 Received: from toad.xkl.com (toad.xkl.com [192.94.202.40]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id MAA15603 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:34:12 -0700 Message-Id: <13378732660.12.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Aug 10 15:35:23 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Fw: Free CoCo3 to good home Message-ID: <013501bdc49e$6d9e2700$a127a2ce@cgregory> >Hi all, > >I'm moving soon, and want to get my old CoCo3, monitor, disk drive, and more >to a good home. I live in the Laurel, Maryland area, and the whole >kit-and-kaboodle is yours for free -- all you have to do is email me at > >russett@russettweb.com.nospam > >(remove .nospam) > >to arrange the pick-up. The CoCo3 and monitor work great. I'm not sure if >the disk controller is still working. I also have the old RS-232 interface >cartridge, hi res joystick interface (I think I can find it), and two or >three games to give away. > >Thanks, > >...Allen > > > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 10 15:53:12 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35CF5DB8.C096482D@rain.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > an > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > will handle the job? Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 computers, but don't know about XTs. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 10 16:03:43 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) References: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <35CF602F.6BE6A5D5@rain.org> I would be more inclined to say Sam has a sense of humor! Joe wrote: > > At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge > one. > >> > >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you > one. > > > >You're weird > > No, he's perfectly normal for California! From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 12:59:24 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 9 Aug 1998, Marion Bates wrote: > --- Pete Joules wrote: > I was also given 2 Apple ][ s - 1 ][e and 1 ][Eurostar > --- end of quote --- > > Just out of curiosity, what's a ][Eurostar Sorry, I was totally confused when I posted that. One is an Apple ][ Europlus (Eurostar is the train which goes under the sea to France :) and the other is a //e. They appear to have _totally_ different motherboards so I don't know if they are variants of the same beast or not. I know nothing about Apples prior to the Mac but am keen to learn - the attraction of this hobby to me is to play with things which I know nothing about. Regards Pete From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 12:51:29 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CE4B71.876A8073@bbtel.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > >> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge one. > > > > > >I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you one. > > > > You're weird > > That he is, but if you want the cards you'd better start sucking up. > I didn't say that he was, someone else did. I replied privately pointing out that the only potential problem is that I live in the UK. Perhaps that may be less of a problem if I publicly say what a nice person Sam is for offering :) Regards Pete From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Aug 10 13:12:26 1998 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions" (Aug 10, 6:42) References: <199808101042.GAA06847@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <9808101912.ZM15696@indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> On Aug 10, 6:42, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Subject: Re: DQ614 and other Q-Bus questions > On Sun Aug 9, 15:20, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Hmmmm, now this sounds ponentially very cool! According to the Field Guide > > this is a "Dilog ST-506 emulation of four RL01/02". Yes, it is. I think I might have been responsible for that highly informative entry ;-) > > Any one have info on > > this, and will it work in a system that has actually RL02 drives attached? > > It would make it a lot easier to get data on to the Hard Drive if I can > > just copy it from a RL02 to a fake RL02. > > Presuming that it can be strapped at the alternate address (DLB0 on a uVAX, > for example. Dunno the CSR), it should work fine. It needs a different PROM to switch the address/vector. The standard PROM at U38 is labelled 91265D (according to my old notes) and the alternate-address PROM is labelled 91578A (old notes again). YMMV :-) > > What kind of Hard Drives will work with it? > > The one I have used to have a Rodime 10 Mb 5.25" full-height MFM drive > attached to it. I'd love to hear if an ST-251 would work. Again, it should. It should be capable of using up to two ST-412 interface drives to emulate up to four RL02s, though I never tried mine with more than one. IIRC there's a small overhead, so you need slightly more than 20MB to emulate two drives. > > Is there any kind of setup for it? There is a funky 20-pin connecter > > marked J3 that might be for jumpers or a ribbon cable though I don't really > > want to try to attach a ribbon cable to it, as it's rather wierdly attached. > > It's an ST-506 interface - 20 pin for analog data (one per drive, up to 4 > supported, depending on the exact nature of the controller in question), > and 34 pin (digital signals) for control (one per controller, including > up to 4 drive select wires). Two physical drives, in this case. > > Does it have any kind of boot ROMs? > > Almost certainly not. It is a register-level emulation of the RLV11 or RLV12 > (don't know which one). It would use the regular DL boot ROM on your system. It does have a bootstrap, but I think the emulation is RLV11 (it's to old to be RLV12, I think). You can switch the bootstrap off, though. The code will boot either a DY or DL device. > > Any idea on how well it would co-exist with a DQ606? > > No idea. Me neither. I don't have the full docs, just a pair of layout diagrams, switch table, and a few bits about formatting. Unfortnately, all the formatting stuff seems to use a program which I don't think I have handy. At the back end of the board is either a 34+20 pin connector, or two individual headers. As Ethan said, the 34-way is the control bus (daisy-chained like floppies for multiple drives) and the 20-way is the data. J3 is the second 20-pin data connector (for the second physical drive). Pin 1 of the 34-way connector is the end nearest the LED, and the other connectors are fitted in the same orientation. There are five switches: S1 ON = ECC used to transparently correct errors where possible OFF = ECC ignored; used for diagnostics S2 ON = bootstrap enabled OFF = bootstrap disabled S3,S4 Identify the last logical RL unit on physical drive 0. So the settings are as follows: S3 S4 Physical 0 Physical 1 off off DL0 Dl1, DL2, DL3 off on DL0, DL1 DL2, DL3 on off DL0, DL1, DL2 DL3 on on DL0, DL1, DL2, DL3 S5 ON = use secondary address for bootstrap ROM: 175000 OFF = use primary address for bootstrap ROM: 173000 Factory setting is all switches off. There are 10 jumpers: JP1 (near U22) removed (etch cut) allows data loopback for diagnostics. JP2 (near U32) removed (etch cut) aborts controller pre-comp logic when writing, for diagnostics. JP3,4,5 (near U70) sets interrupt levels: level JP3 JP4 JP5 4 B-C B-C B-C 5 B-C B-C A-B 6 B-C A-B B-C 7 A-B A-B B-C JP6 (near U22) "Must be removed" JP7 (near U22) "Must be removed" JP8 (near U5) "Must be removed" JP9 (near U32) "Must be installed" JP (near U32) "A-B must be installed, A-C must be removed" There's also a socket for a special (customer) bootstrap at U38. That's about all I can tell you, I'm afraid. I'll have a look for a copy of the formatting program (which came on an RT11 floppy, I think) but I'm not hopeful... I don't have the controller any longer. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com Mon Aug 10 16:36:09 1998 From: pjoules at joules.enterprise-plc.com (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer Message-ID: With these beasts I was also given a centronics printer cable but there seems to be nowhere to plug it in. Is this something which also needs an interface card? Regards Pete From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 12:40:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <7703908@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 9, 98 08:40:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 374 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/4539f0b8/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 17:19:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed Message-ID: <35CF7203.B94E60FF@bbtel.com> There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) and if you can help this person please send email to ruthrob@cyberhighway.net -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Mon Aug 10 17:27:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed References: <35CE4B02.F3308171@bbtel.com> <35CF5DB8.C096482D@rain.org> Message-ID: <35CF73E0.5B97344F@bbtel.com> Marvin wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > computers, but don't know about XTs. We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 10 17:45:40 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: It's very likely that no commercial utility will work on this board, it probably shipped with its own chipset-specific drivers. There were some alternative drivers such as The Last Byte, but they worked only on certain 286 chipsets (e.g. C&T) Kai (for whom EMS was once a technical specialty, boy that brings back painful memories) -----Original Message----- From: Russ Blakeman [mailto:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 3:28 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Marvin wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > an > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > will handle the job? > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > computers, but don't know about XTs. We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 18:15:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Pete Joules wrote: > With these beasts I was also given a centronics printer cable but there > seems to be nowhere to plug it in. Is this something which also needs an > interface card? Yes, and it could go to any one of a large number of different printer interfaces manufactured for the Apple ][ over the years. The chances of finding a match are not great. You'll just have to run into a printer interface at a radio rally that comes with its own cable. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 17:08:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: from "Pete Joules" at Aug 10, 98 06:59:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1252 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/82c11d2f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 17:11:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Apple ][europlus or //e printer In-Reply-To: from "Pete Joules" at Aug 10, 98 10:36:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980810/038d36dc/attachment.ksh From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Aug 10 18:37:36 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: <35CF602F.6BE6A5D5@rain.org> References: <3.0.1.16.19980809215821.58bffaf6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199808102337.XAA09917@cyber2.servtech.com> At 14:03 10-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >I would be more inclined to say Sam has a sense of humor! > >Joe wrote: >> >> At 07:38 PM 8/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>> cards in them I suppose I will have to wait until I can scrounge >> one. >> >> >> >>I have 4million of those. Tell me I'm beautiful and I'll send you >> one. >> > >> >You're weird >> >> No, he's perfectly normal for California! > The part I'm trying to figure out is how in the dickens does he keep track of 4 million of those things! Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 18:42:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > The //e is a ][+ with most of the logic in a pair of custom chips (for > memory control and I/O). It has 64K RAM on the motherboard (the ][+ has > 48K, with an optional 16K language card), and can take another 64K RAM, > bankswitched. IIRC, the //e also has an 80 column display using a very > simple expansion card, and an extra multi-colour video mode. I don't know what you mean by the "extra multi-colour video mode", but the later //e's (the revision B and Enhanced versions, not the original revision A) had the capability for double hi-res. This meant that it could do 560 x 192 graphics in 16 colours as opposed to the standard 280 x 192 in 8 colours. > I have a //e somewhere. I never did much with it as I didn't have a Tech > manual (the ][+ came with such a manual). Then, amazingly, I found the > official Apple //e technical manual in a bookshop in London. Of course I > bought it. Maybe I'll dig the //e out again and play with it. Guaranteed to brings days, weeks and years of fun and challenge. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Aug 10 19:12:01 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) Message-ID: <199808110012.RAA26977@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Sorry, I was totally confused when I posted that. One is an Apple ][ >Europlus (Eurostar is the train which goes under the sea to France :) and >the other is a //e. They appear to have _totally_ different motherboards >so I don't know if they are variants of the same beast or not. I know >nothing about Apples prior to the Mac but am keen to learn - the >attraction of this hobby to me is to play with things which I know nothing >about. The Eurplus is basically an Apple II+. Thus, the "plus" in its name. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From tomowad at earthlink.net Mon Aug 10 19:12:16 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ATTN: Douglas Salot Message-ID: <199808110012.RAA27167@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net> My apologies for posting this to the list. Douglas Salot, please send me an email. I don't have your email address. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Mon Aug 10 19:53:09 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed In-Reply-To: <35CF7203.B94E60FF@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 10, 98 05:19:48 pm Message-ID: <199808110053.UAA11075@shell.monmouth.com> > > There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin > nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) > and if you can help this person please send email to > ruthrob@cyberhighway.net Geez. That's interesting. Compugraphic was purchased by Agfa which is still in business in Massachusetts. Bill From kyrrin at jps.net Mon Aug 10 20:00:54 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (kyrrin@jps.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35d19788.1125963399@smtp.wa.jps.net> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? Please contact him directly if so. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: >>From: Alun >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>Subject: Dos v2.11 >>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 >>Organization: None >>Message-ID: >>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk >>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 >>Lines: 8 >>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB >> >>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to >>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a >>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this >>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand >>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old >>software to run on a spare machine. >>-- >>Alun -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 10 19:44:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: New toys :) In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 10, 98 04:42:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980811/3d14f09b/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Aug 10 20:25:45 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: > Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? >Please contact him directly if so. > > Thanks! > >-=-=- -=-=- > >On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: > >>>From: Alun >>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc >>>Subject: Dos v2.11 >>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 >>>Organization: None >>>Message-ID: >>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk >>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 >>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net >>>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 >>>Lines: 8 >>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB >>> >>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to >>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a >>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this >>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand >>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old >>>software to run on a spare machine. >>>-- >>>Alun > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net >Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, period. >I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per Chapter 19 RCW. > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 10 20:33:56 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. setver - pretty easy really 8-) But that may not be enough. Between 3.3 and 6.0 had less differences than 2.11 and 6.0. As stated tho - I am forwarding this on the person who needs it. BC From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 10 21:05:07 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: Message-ID: <35CFA6D3.B06A4993@texoma.net> I've run across a couple of industrial controller interface programs that won't run except on version 2.x...setver won't cut it with them. One was the programming and diag software for the Lynx Loop Access Controller for the AEG/Gould/Modicon 884 controller. Obsolete controller, obsolete module, but still in service in many applications. The only solution was get a 8088 box (won't run on '286 and better) and a copy of good old DOS 2.1. that's why I keep a couple of old Compaq portables around. Never know when you're going to need one at 3am. James BTW I still have 2.11 disks for Tandy 1000's and copies of PC DOS 2.0, 2.1 and 3.1, NIB, never had the wrapper broken. If that guy who needed a copy of DOS 2.x will privately email me I'll look to see if I have a spare copy with docs....go to stay legal ya' know Brett wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > setver - pretty easy really 8-) > > But that may not be enough. Between 3.3 and 6.0 had less differences > than 2.11 and 6.0. As stated tho - I am forwarding this on the person > who needs it. > > BC From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Aug 10 21:16:27 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Plus/4 Power Supplies References: <199808100702.AAA01623@lists4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CFA97B.424E4D21@goldrush.com> No, that's NOT what I said, to make it easier to understand: 1. remove the round PC mount power socket from a dead 64 curcuitboard 2. remove the Plus/4's square power socket from the Plus/4 curcuitboard 3. solder in the 64 socket where the Plus/4 socket was (the pin locations are the same) Then plug in any 64 power supply to the Plus/4 and fire it up. Works like a champ! > From: Russ Blakeman > Subject: Re: Plus/4 Power Supply > > I think the connectors are different. If I remember correctly it looks like a > 128's square housing with s different pin setup. I'm pretty sure the voltages > are the same though they are in different places. > > Maybe he can use the C64 power supply and splice his old connector to the end of > it? He'd have to have the pinouts of both to do this though. > Really more work than is really worth it. The plus/4 supply is a black Commodore 64 brick supply (the one with the bah-relief C= symbol) with a square power connector, no major cosmetic difference. since he wants the 'real thing' check out: http://www.vintagecomputer.com/ where you will find these prices: 4. PLUS/4 WITH POWER SUPPLY.....18.95 5. PLUS/4 COMPUTER (KEYBOARD).....10.95 *** 6. PLUS/4 POWER SUPPLY.....10.95 *** 7. C16 WITH POWER SUPPLY.....24.95 8. C16 COMPUTER (KEYBOARD).....14.95 9. C16 POWER SUPPLY.....14.95 > Larry Anderson wrote: > > > You can use a Commodore 64 power supply on your plus/4 too! > > > > What you need to do is remove the power connector from a dead 64 motherboard > > and solder it into where the the Plus/4's power connector is. Fortunately > > they are both pin for pin compatible with each other. I have modified one > > plus/4 in that way and haven't had a problem since. ;) > > > > Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 10 21:27:34 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Model 1 info References: <3.0.2.32.19980807110123.00687bc0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <35CFAC16.DEF5621F@cnct.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > > While browsing I discovered that Chapter 9 of TAB book # 1183, > "Troubleshooting Microprocessors & Digital Logic" by Robert L. Goodman, > consists of about twenty five pages of schematics and troubleshooting hints > for the TRS80 Model 1. > I hope this is of interest. Trust a TAB book like you would an evil twin of competent editing, even if it has a Radio Shack part number. And as bad as the editing generally was, the typesetting was worse. (Well, I'm out of semi-colons, well, just plain colons will work just as well in these Pascal program listings.) TAB books seems to be a conspiracy to reverse technical progress. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 10 21:26:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980810212521.0069c09c@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. Are you thinking of SETVER perhaps? If so, I didn't know you could use that to fake programs into thinking you are running a particular version of DOS. Well, I just checked the help files in DOS 6.22 and sho'nuff, you can use SETVER to trick a program into thinking its running under DOS x.yz. First you must load SETVER in your CONFIG.SYS file, then you use the SETVER command from the command line to specify the DOS version to report to the specific program you are running. Neat. But I don't know if this would solve the original guy's problem. Perhaps the pill dispensing program does direct calls into DOS 2.11 and bypasses the BIOS? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/03/98] From boss at ibmhelp.com Mon Aug 10 21:35:38 1998 From: boss at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > > > Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > > them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > > here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > > under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > > command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > Are you thinking of SETVER perhaps? If so, I didn't know you could use > that to fake programs into thinking you are running a particular version > of DOS. > > Well, I just checked the help files in DOS 6.22 and sho'nuff, you can use > SETVER to trick a program into thinking its running under DOS x.yz. First > you must load SETVER in your CONFIG.SYS file, then you use the SETVER > command from the command line to specify the DOS version to report to the > specific program you are running. Neat. > > But I don't know if this would solve the original guy's problem. Perhaps > the pill dispensing program does direct calls into DOS 2.11 and bypasses > the BIOS? > SETVER can make DOS look like a different version at least to a slight degree. If I remember correctly, it tries to give the program some internals compatible with the specified version and forces the int calls to report that version as well. The only problem is, most of the time the reason a program only works with _one_ and only one version of DOS is that it was designed incorrectly--usually to take adavantage of something that was broken in that version. Programmers, ya can't live with 'em, ya can't shoot 'em. > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/03/98] > - -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: latin1 iQCVAwUBNc+t/j9a7OLIYJvdAQGZMwP+PF82P6eKcOkH3o2CV4iE9UULdsYg54fu Eukkb99ylQVmJwI/SYLIy6qfDr2UJo3yOboWZe5DgTqyRLioNydf598YeyOZ7cny bJ3/ZT07jqeRHVfTDtob99Npp3/HTZcuNqnNTnOW/Hj/FimrcuTVq9UfWtZ5/twB L4d4Ty5A1rU= =SVNX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Aug 10 21:45:25 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment (nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. Here's the URL: http://www.drms.com/ If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you get and/or what it's like, ok? -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 10 22:01:56 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page In-Reply-To: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980810220156.30a73ab6@intellistar.net> At 07:45 PM 8/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment >(nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in >there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. > >Here's the URL: > > http://www.drms.com/ > >If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you >get and/or what it's like, ok? I've bought stuff from these auctions before. What do you want to know? Joe From yowza at yowza.com Mon Aug 10 22:29:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter In-Reply-To: <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Message-ID: In the last episode of the continuing saga of my little almost-complete ET-3400, you might remember that I found the LEDs for it, but not the ROM chip. Of course, it turns out the ROM chip is pure unobtanium: a special mask-programmed MCM6830A. Luckily, I found that Heathkit was still in business, and still supported the ET-3400, so I ordered a ROM chip from them. They send me a 2716. Hmm, it's not pin-compatible, so no big surprise that it doesn't work. So, I called them up. "Oh, you need an adapter board for that old ET-3400, but we stopped making those things 15 years ago." It turns out that one of the techs there has the last adaptor board sitting in his desk drawer. Now the adapter board is mine! But it needs a buffer chip. The tech says "I think it needs a 74LS174". But that's not a buffer chip, and it's got the wrong number of pins (16 instead of the 14 the socket has). I'm guessing it really needs something like a '242 or '243. Is there any way to know for sure without guessing? Am I going to blow anything up by trying the two chips above? Any other guesses? -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 00:06:24 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U Message-ID: I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading MS-DOS floppies. I bought one a couple months ago, for a project with my Amiga, since they were what the developers of the Catweasel board recommended. Spent about two days trying to get it to work. Finally I pulled the drive out of my 486 (an older Teac drive) and it worked immediatly. Assuming the Amiga part of the equation was the problem I put the new drive in the 486. Well, yesterday I needed to make archival images of some RX50's. No dice, it absolutly would not read them. I'd picked up some older Teac's at the last swap meet, so I got them out, and after two that only semi worked I found one that works just fine, and was able to make my images, copy them back to new floppies, and boot my PDP-11/73 off of them. Note, I tried using the Teac FD-55BV-16-U drive with both 'putr' and 'teledisk'. Neather would work with it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 00:24:03 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Update Message-ID: Well, thanks to the answers I got on my questions I've got a bit better of an idea on how to proceed with getting the newly built from parts /23 up and running, and I understand why I was having difficulties (as I thought, the path through the backplane). Since I'm using a RQDX3 for the drive controller, it sounds like my best bet is to forget the RX50, and go straight to RX33 drives. However, based on my taking an additional look at the RX50 drives I'll probably try to get them up and running. What can I say, they're just too cool looking :^) The QD614 board for emulating RL01/02's sounds pretty cool, to bad I don't have the software for formating the attached drives. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Aug 11 01:15:53 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter Message-ID: <199808110615.XAA05011@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 10:29 PM 8/10/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >In the last episode of the continuing saga of my little almost-complete >ET-3400, you might remember that I found the LEDs for it, but not the ROM >chip. Of course, it turns out the ROM chip is pure unobtanium: a special >mask-programmed MCM6830A. Luckily, I found that Heathkit was still in >business, and still supported the ET-3400, so I ordered a ROM chip from >them. > >They send me a 2716. Hmm, it's not pin-compatible, so no big surprise >that it doesn't work. So, I called them up. "Oh, you need an adapter >board for that old ET-3400, but we stopped making those things 15 years >ago." It turns out that one of the techs there has the last adaptor board >sitting in his desk drawer. Now the adapter board is mine! > Well, good work finding it! >But it needs a buffer chip. The tech says "I think it needs a 74LS174". >But that's not a buffer chip, and it's got the wrong number of pins (16 >instead of the 14 the socket has). > >I'm guessing it really needs something like a '242 or '243. Is there any >way to know for sure without guessing? Am I going to blow anything up by >trying the two chips above? Any other guesses? > Can you trace the circuit of the buffer chip to see at least what pins are outputs to the 2716 (addresses) and what is from the 2716 to the adapter (data lines)? Another choice is a '125. A '242, '243 only have the data inverted from each other, so if one's the correct chip, the other won't cause logic conflicts, just wrong polarity signals. -Dave From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:42:48 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Compugraphics tech info needed References: <199808110053.UAA11075@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <35CFE7E7.C6F83B80@bbtel.com> Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > > There's a person named Linus Ruth that needs pinout info for the 37 pin > > nonstandard serial port on a CompuGraphics (typesetter type computer) > > and if you can help this person please send email to > > ruthrob@cyberhighway.net > > Geez. That's interesting. Compugraphic was purchased by Agfa which > is still in business in Massachusetts. Well see I told you that there was some bright individual out there in this list that would know something. I'l pass this along to him and he can track them down from there. Thanks. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Tue Aug 11 01:45:37 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 10, 98 09:06:24 pm Message-ID: <199808110645.XAA13015@saul4.u.washington.edu> > I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy > drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading > MS-DOS floppies. Do you have a theory to explain why this is true? I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works (or in this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligence" that is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things never are actually intelligent. -- Derek From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:55:03 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <35CFEAC6.AD56BADB@bbtel.com> Larry Anderson wrote: > Here is a web page that lists auctions of former U.S. military equipment > (nothing *that* fancy, but there are CPUs, monitors, printers, copiers, etc in > there.) Lists by lots as well as by areas. > > Here's the URL: > > http://www.drms.com/ > > If anyone actually goes to one of these or wins a bid, let us know what you > get and/or what it's like, ok? Been to military auctions a lot when I was active duty, especially when they had tons of stuff during the shutdown of Chanute AFB in Rantoul, IL near Champaign-Urbana. Many times you have to buy a lot rather than individual items and many times the bids are based on scrap value rather than actual resale value. It used to be called DRMO, I guess they turned it into a commercial entity and had to make it read as a service, hence the .COM address rather than the .MIL or .ORG address. The last auction I went to at Ft. Knox here I bought a pallet full of Alps 9 pin printers that had seen many hours but still worthwhile...I paid $50 for the entire pallet and only one printer of 40 was non-working. I used it for spare parts on the ones I cleaned/tested/repaired for resale. I donated 10 of them to a church group here and the rest sold nearly overnight for $25 each. 99% are still in heavy service in the offices, schools and homes around area. Only one has had to be repaired since it was sold, for a gunked up printehead (I think I missed that one). Many auctions have a preview period so you can somewhat see what there is and the condition. Other times they have the contents listed in the auction catalog and you bid strictly on that. You also have a reasonable period of time to make payment and oickup on many of these auctions. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 01:57:45 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U References: Message-ID: <35CFEB67.C13ACFB8@bbtel.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: > I thought I'd put out a warning about the Teac FD-55BV-16-U 5.25" floppy > drives. They seem to be totally unsuited for anything other than reading > MS-DOS floppies. They seem to work alright in CP/M systems as well. I put one in a Kaypro a while back and to my understanding it's still chugging away in the machine. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 02:18:59 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: Military Auctions Web Page References: <199808070702.AAA16939@lists2.u.washington.edu> <35CFB045.A626C8EF@goldrush.com> <35CFEAC6.AD56BADB@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <35CFF063.7CC3@geocities.com> the DRMO is still alive and well; I picked up some old Suns and some 3B2's from the one in Great Lakes, Il. DRMO offices are where govt stuff goes after no other govt agency wants it; as far as I recall, most DRMO offices are open to the public at certain times etc. they have big lots, but also lots of separate junk. great places. -Eric Russ Blakeman wrote: > and many times the bids are based on scrap value rather than actual resale value. > It used to be called DRMO, I guess they turned it into a commercial entity and had From afritz at delphid.ml.org Tue Aug 11 06:08:34 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:51 2005 Subject: DECserver Message-ID: Well, I got bored tonight and pulled out a DECserver 200/MC that somehow ended up with many months ago. First thing was take a scredriver to it (it was quite noisy and I figured I should probably figure out what the obstruction was). Well, the obstruction was, well, dust. Although I'm not writing this message to talk solely about dust, this was some interesting stuff. From the looks of it either this thing had been in/near a fire or it's administrator smoked at an unhealthy rate. Very black and very plentiful. Also very difficult to remove (extremely fine). Removing most of it made it quieter. Anyway, what can I do with this thing? I don't have the boot images for VMS, nor do I currently have a running VMS machine. When I turn it on, the D1 light turns on, followed shortly by the D2 light, and the D3 flashes when it's transmiting. And there's MOP packets on the ether, so I must assume it's in working order. Eventually, the D3 light starts flashing constantly and D4 starts flashing every half-minute or so. I don't suppose there's any way to do IP, is there? One thing I was suprised to see in there was the face of a big original package 68k. It might be interesting to write a custom boot image. :) In any case, does anyone have a copy of the boot image for when I get a VMS machine back to being functional again? af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 05:50:52 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <35d19788.1125963399@smtp.wa.jps.net> Message-ID: I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can't find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be thrilled to think my madness might help out some furry critters. Does anyone have a suggestion how to send a copy of it that will be bootable? I've been using Teledisk and Diskdupe but it usually means I have to spend time explaining to people why they need these programmes and how to use them. Is there an easier way, i.e. some self extracting program? colan From CharlesII at nwonline.net Tue Aug 11 07:51:48 1998 From: CharlesII at nwonline.net (CharlesII@nwonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111252.FAA20689@mxu2.u.washington.edu> try setver [dos version] CL>Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make CL>them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank CL>here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running CL>under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The CL>command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. CL>At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: CL>> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? CL>>Please contact him directly if so. CL>> CL>> Thanks! CL>> CL>>-=-=- -=-=- CL>> CL>>On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: CL>> CL>>>>From: Alun CL>>>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc CL>>>>Subject: Dos v2.11 CL>>>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 CL>>>>Organization: None CL>>>>Message-ID: CL>>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk CL>>>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 CL>>>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT CL>alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 CL>>>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net CL>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 CL>>>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 CL>>>>Lines: 8 CL>>>>Path: CL>blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c CL>om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem CL>on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB CL>>>> CL>>>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to CL>>>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a CL>>>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this CL>>>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand CL>>>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old CL>>>>software to run on a spare machine. CL>>>>-- CL>>>>Alun CL>> CL>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- CL>>Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) CL>>http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net CL>>Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, CL>period. CL>>I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per CL>Chapter 19 RCW. CL>> CL>- CL>- john higginbotham ____________________________ CL>- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - CL>- limbo limbo.netpath.net - From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 07:59:10 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U Message-ID: <199808111259.AA28889@world.std.com> < I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works < this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligenc < is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things ne < actually intelligent. No. it's a matter of media format. the FD55-B was designed for 40 track two sided and works well for that. RX50 however is 80tracks 1 sided. While the 1/2 side this is a us it or not thing the 40/80 track thing is actually a mechanical design of the drive. The FD55-b works for a lot of formats but DEC was always non-standard with the rx50. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 08:08:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: DECserver Message-ID: <199808111308.AA06390@world.std.com> < Anyway, what can I do with this thing? I don't have the boot images fo < VMS, nor do I currently have a running VMS machine. As form of informationand explanation. It's a terminal server for VAX systems. The protocal it uses is LAT/RLAT. LAT is a local area protocal for terminal and printing services. It's a low level protocal and not generally routable. < When I turn it on, the D1 light turns on, followed shortly by the D2 < light, and the D3 flashes when it's transmiting. And there's MOP packet < on the ether, so I must assume it's in working order. Eventually, the D < light starts flashing constantly and D4 starts flashing every half-minut < or so. good sign. < I don't suppose there's any way to do IP, is there? One thing I was Nope. < suprised to see in there was the face of a big original package 68k. I < might be interesting to write a custom boot image. :) It was enough CPU for the task at that time (late 80s). < In any case, does anyone have a copy of the boot image for when I get a < VMS machine back to being functional again? I'd have to look myself, I have one but never needed an extra 8 serial lines. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 08:09:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! Allison From jrice at texoma.net Tue Aug 11 09:03:59 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D04F4F.D85B6AFD@texoma.net> Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). James Allison J Parent wrote: > > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! > > Allison From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 09:04:55 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111309.AA06549@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D04F86.7052FE7@bbtel.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! I do remember one, and only one, program that came outunder ms-dos 2.1x and would not run under 3.x....Battlezone. I have no idea why it wouldn't run under anything other than 2.1x other than maybe the compiler used routines and addresses from that dos. Other than that, you are absolutley right as I still run a few games and such from back in the 2.11 days, even in MSDOS mode on a Win95 machine. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From spc at armigeron.com Tue Aug 11 08:17:29 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <35D04F86.7052FE7@bbtel.com> from "Russ Blakeman" at Aug 11, 98 09:04:55 am Message-ID: <199808111317.JAA14655@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Russ Blakeman once stated: > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > < I have a copy of version 2.10 which I suspect will do the trick ( can' > > < find any reference to a version 2.11). I collect DOSae and would be > > > > there was a 2.11 and it was common as it was the bugfix for 2.10 and > > before. if it runs under 2.11 there is no reson it can't run under 3.3. > > I can't imagine what an app might use that wasn't in 3.3! > > I do remember one, and only one, program that came outunder ms-dos 2.1x and > would not run under 3.x....Battlezone. I have no idea why it wouldn't run > under anything other than 2.1x other than maybe the compiler used routines > and addresses from that dos. Other than that, you are absolutley right as I > still run a few games and such from back in the 2.11 days, even in MSDOS mode > on a Win95 machine. Some programs (and Microsoft programs were notorious for this) would check the version and refuse to run unless it was *equal* to the version it was expecting. The correct way would have been equal or greater than. -spc (Bloody programmers) From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 07:03:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <35CF73E0.5B97344F@bbtel.com> Message-ID: <199808111605.MAA06606@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 Aug 98 at 17:27, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > > > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > > > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such > > > an > > > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > > > will handle the job? > > > > Quarterdeck used to offer a program called QRAM (IIRC) that would allow > > more than the 640K Ram to be used. I know it would work with 286 > > computers, but don't know about XTs. > > We'll try anythig until he gets it right. At one time this stuff was so > commonplace that even after years with it I forget what and where. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman Has he actually powered up this beast yet ? I had an XT from Phillips that had 768k onboard that I passed on to a friend and I don't remember it having any sort of memory manager. IIRC the first time I used it with DOS 3.2 floppies, I was amazed as the mem counter went up to 640 and just kept going. I imagined it was some trick they did in bios. If his doesn't use the full ram, I'll double check with my friend in case I missed something. I've also got several 286 mem managers someplace here but I doubt if they will work with an XT. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 11:15:18 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 11 11:15:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: MIT flea address/info (eastern MA USA). Message-ID: <199808111615.AA24122@world.std.com> http://web.mit.edu/w1mx/www/swapfest.html The MIT Radio Society, in conjunction with the MIT UHF Repeater Association, the MIT Electronics Research Society, and the Harvard Wireless Club, sponsors a Swapfest on the third Sunday of each month, April through October. This is a place to buy, sell, and swap amateur radio, electronic, and computer equipment. Hams and non-hams alike are welcome. The Swapfest is held at MIT's Albany Street Garage at the corner of Albany and Main Streets in Cambridge. The gate opens for buyers at 9am. There is a small admission fee. For more information, or if you'd like to purchase a seller's pass, call (617) 253-3776 during business hours. From spc at armigeron.com Tue Aug 11 09:18:37 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed In-Reply-To: <199808111605.MAA06606@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 11, 98 12:03:22 pm Message-ID: <199808111418.KAA14779@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Lawrence Walker once stated: > > Has he actually powered up this beast yet ? I had an XT from > Phillips that had 768k onboard that I passed on to a friend and I > don't remember it having any sort of memory manager. IIRC the first > time I used it with DOS 3.2 floppies, I was amazed as the mem counter > went up to 640 and just kept going. I imagined it was some trick they > did in bios. > If his doesn't use the full ram, I'll double check with my friend in case I > missed something. I've also got several 286 mem managers someplace here > but I doubt if they will work with an XT. The infamous 640K limit isn't a fault of Microsoft (well, partly, but not entirely) but of IBM. The memory map of an IBM PC (or PClone) has RAM stopping at $9FFFF, or 640K. Memory starting at $A0000 is reserved and if I recall, it's mapped out as: $00000 RAM $A0000 Reserved or EGA/VGA graphics memory $B0000 MDA or CGA graphics memory $C0000 Reserved or Expansion ROM $D0000 Reserved or Expansion ROM $E0000 Reserved, Expansion ROM or Extended BIOS $F0000 BIOS More or less. But you have to remember, that's for a 100% compatible IBM PC clone. Remove that restriction and you can have more memory. MS-DOS can work fine with more memory, but its problem is that the memory has to be contiguous (Thanks Microsoft. And while you're at it, could you make it non-reentrant? Perfect ... ). -spc (Remembers more of this than he wants to ... ) From bruce.a.lane at boeing.com Tue Aug 11 11:26:41 1998 From: bruce.a.lane at boeing.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Heads up: (almost) FREE Solaris! Message-ID: <35D070C1.C5D9C7FA@jps.net> Looks like Sun Microsystems is jumping on the freebie bandwagon now. I think this story will be of particular interest to those of us who own older SPARCStations. Enjoy! http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/116306.html?st.ne.fd.mnaw From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 11:43:19 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 07:41:22 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111252.FAA20689@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199808111643.MAA13638@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 Aug 98 at 8:51, CharlesII@nwonline.net wrote: > try setver [dos version] > > > CL>Why not just run... What's that DOS program that fakes out apps to make > CL>them think they are running on another version of DOS? I'm drawing a blank > CL>here, but I did use it one time to make Windows 2.03 think it was running > CL>under DOS 3.3 when it was actually running on DOS 6.0. Worked great. The > CL>command is documented in the DOS help file, 5.0 and up, IIRC. > > CL>At 01:00 AM 8/11/98 GMT, kyrrin@jps.net wrote: > CL>> Can anyone help this fellow obtain a most ancient version of DOS? > CL>>Please contact him directly if so. > CL>> > CL>> Thanks! > CL>> > CL>>-=-=- -=-=- > CL>> > CL>>On Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: > CL>> > CL>>>>From: Alun > CL>>>>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc > CL>>>>Subject: Dos v2.11 > CL>>>>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:07:07 +0100 > CL>>>>Organization: None > CL>>>>Message-ID: > CL>>>>NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk > CL>>>>X-NNTP-Posting-Host: alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 > CL>>>>X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 902772436 nnrp-09:18077 NO-IDENT > CL>alunbell.demon.co.uk:158.152.226.160 > CL>>>>X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net > CL>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0 > CL>>>>X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 > CL>>>>Lines: 8 > CL>>>>Path: > CL>blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.c > CL>om!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.dem > CL>on.co.uk!demon!alunbell.demon.co.uk!AJB > CL>>>> > CL>>>>Anyone got a copy? I'm happy to pay for it! I need it desperately to > CL>>>>rescue a customer whose PC2086 and software has died. They are a > CL>>>>veterinarians, and their drug labelling software only runs on this > CL>>>>version of DOS (seriously!). I'm rewriting it all, but there's thousand > CL>>>>of drugs to enter, and until I'm done, they really need their old > CL>>>>software to run on a spare machine. > CL>>>>-- > CL>>>>Alun > CL>> > CL>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > CL>>Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) > CL>>http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin -- also kyrrin [A-t] Jps {D=o=t} Net > CL>>Spam is bad. Spam is theft of service. Spam wastes resources. Don't spam, > CL>period. > CL>>I am a WASHINGTON STATE resident. Spam charged $500.00 per incident per > CL>Chapter 19 RCW. > CL>> > CL>- > CL>- john higginbotham ____________________________ > CL>- webmaster www.pntprinting.com - > CL>- limbo limbo.netpath.net - > > > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on in this thread. Now don't you think that's a little much ! Larry (in indignant mode) lwalker@interlog.com From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 15:37:17 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Warning: Teac FD-55BV-16-U In-Reply-To: <199808111259.AA28889@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< I'm just curious -- I always like to know more about how hardware works >< this case doesn't work). Could the drive have some sort of "intelligenc >< is trapping you? I put "intelligence" in quotes because these things ne >< actually intelligent. > >No. it's a matter of media format. the FD55-B was designed for 40 track >two sided and works well for that. RX50 however is 80tracks 1 sided. >While the 1/2 side this is a us it or not thing the 40/80 track thing is >actually a mechanical design of the drive. This probably explains why the same drive couldn't read C-1541 disks when attached to a special controller in my one Amiga. A different model Teac works just fine with the controller and can read the 1541's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jrice at texoma.net Tue Aug 11 14:43:04 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D09EC8.B17EF6E8@texoma.net> Allison, I know what the syntax for setver is...it just wouldn't work in this instance and we didn't have the time to disassemble a 15 year old application to determine why. It was just easier to get an old DOS version and boot off a floppy. The app also wouldn't run from any disk but the original factory 360k floppy disk. Even a CopyIIPC copy board I used to have wouldn't copy it. James Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, > < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message > < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". > < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors > < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under > < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). > > Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. > > Allison From tomowad at earthlink.net Tue Aug 11 15:45:40 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Email problems Message-ID: <199808112045.NAA15824@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I had some trouble with my email today and 20 messages were deleted. If anybody on the list sent me any email and didn't receive a reply please resend. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 11 12:37:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: ET-3400 ROM adapter In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 10, 98 10:29:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980811/4649a896/attachment.ksh From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 16:25:34 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor Message-ID: <35D0B6CE.6D45@geocities.com> I found out that the prez of my ex-company uses a concrete filled "dec pdp 8" (his words) as a permanent sailboat anchor at his summer house. what a great way to recycle computer parts.... sheesh. -Eric From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Aug 11 16:29:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor In-Reply-To: <35D0B6CE.6D45@geocities.com> Message-ID: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [A PDP-8 for some undeserving ba$**rd to use as a BOAT ANCHOR?) Hmm. I'll fix him! Where's he at, and has anoyone got a drill and some diving gear? ------- From poesie at geocities.com Tue Aug 11 16:42:29 1998 From: poesie at geocities.com (Poesie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor References: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35D0BAC5.6895@geocities.com> Well, I asked one of my friends who still worked there if he could check on any PDP type equipment; I thought it was worth a shot. apparently the big man heard about it and told him some story about how he had hated one so much as a student, he got one as scrap and filled it with concrete and sunk it out on the lake w/ a huge eye-bolt to connect the sailboat to. A moron's revenge, I guess. Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [A PDP-8 for some undeserving ba$**rd to use as a BOAT ANCHOR?) > > Hmm. I'll fix him! Where's he at, and has anoyone got a drill and some > diving gear? > ------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:00:26 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 Message-ID: I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. Anyone with experience with this with advice? TIA colan From scott at saskatoon.com Tue Aug 11 20:00:42 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What are you doing with the head cleaner? Just spraying it in between the keys? What I have done with many commodore keyboards is to open them up (don't lose the tiny screws) and clean the black rubber on each key with a q-tip and isopropyl alcohol. I also clean the contacts on the circuit board. Then put it back together, and it should work. I did this many times with my original VIC-20 and with various PETs. On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: >I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop >computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not >responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at >some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried >some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. >Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > >TIA >colan > > > From rhblake at bbtel.com Tue Aug 11 20:03:49 1998 From: rhblake at bbtel.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D0E9F3.CBA976B4@bbtel.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on > > in this thread. > > Now don't you think that's a little much ! > > > > Larry (in indignant mode) > > lwalker@interlog.com > > Well, I guess it's better than whoever used 0 text lines for a 0 line > response. At least with the 70 lines, you know what they're talking about. > With 0 text lines, and no response, your guess is as good as mine for what > they meant :-) > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 Easy big fella, don't need another flamefest like we had with the guy from UK back a few months ago....compute away and let it slide. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- From cdrmool at interlog.com Tue Aug 11 20:04:24 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? colan On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Scott Walde wrote: > What are you doing with the head cleaner? Just spraying it in between the > keys? > > What I have done with many commodore keyboards is to open them up (don't > lose the tiny screws) and clean the black rubber on each key with a q-tip > and isopropyl alcohol. I also clean the contacts on the circuit board. > Then put it back together, and it should work. I did this many times with > my original VIC-20 and with various PETs. > > On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > >I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop > >computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not > >responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at > >some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried > >some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. > >Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > > > > >TIA > >colan > > > > > > > From scott at saskatoon.com Tue Aug 11 20:11:14 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: >Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would >work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the >bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? Typically a tape drive, maybe a disk drive, maybe a printer. The disk drives and printers connected to the IEEE-488 bus. (One of the two bigger edge connectors on the back.) The tape drive (the drives used on the VIC-20 will work) connects to the narrow edge connector. > colan ttyl srw From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:46 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Denver finds Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811111751.5d3f0f70@ricochet.net> Well, all I can say is if you're going to Denver from San Francisco, (or vice-versa,) fly. We spent 24 hours getting there, with only food/bathroom stops, and a 1/2hr nap somewhere in Nevada. 8^) Anyway, We went to the Mile High Flea Market which turned up a Magnavox Odyssey 2 (+ 7 games) and 2 APF TV Fun machines. (And some Fisher-Price cars/people.) Then we hit a number of thrift shops where we found 2 different versions of a VTL/VTech learning computer, ca. 1980+ (I already had one, the oldest of the three.) We also came up with another Odyssey 2, an Alphie II (learning toy in the shape of a robot), and an Atari Pong game in the box. We passed up an NEC APC (vt-100 like machine, with 2 8" floppies,) a Commodore PC-20 III, Franklin Ace 1000, and a few others at the ARC about 10000 E. Colfax, and an Amstrad PCW 8256 at the ARC on Florida and S. Broadway. The keyboard and main unit were there, but separated, I reunited them and told the guy to keep them together. The last one we stopped at, on the way out of town was on W. 74th(?) near Wadsworth. There we left behind an apollo monitor (labelled "Domain") and a PCjr Monitor. What we did get was an IBM 5155(? The suitcase one) and a TI ProLite laptop, with powersupply and "drive box" (additional disk drive that attaches to the back.) The former was marked at $12.99 and the latter was $24.99. I took them up to pay and asked the gal if she could reduce the price on the TI (it never hurts to ask!). She called the guy from the furniture department (computers are furniture, btw) and asked him. He looked at what I had, crossed out the price on the TI and wrote "2pc" on both computers. I got 'em both for $12.99. We also got, over the course of the week, about a dozen pairs of tap shoes, but not much Donald Duck stuff. Anyway, if you're in the area, you should keep any eye on the ARC stores. They seem to get a lot of stuff, and regularly have 1/2 price or even $.99 sales. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:47 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: BART and PDP8's? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811112737.5d3fcc6e@ricochet.net> At 07:49 PM 7/31/98 +1700, you wrote: >A few years ago, I heard a rumor bandied about somewhere on Usenet that >BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit, a rail system running around some of the >San Francisco Bay) was, even to this day, controlled by pdp8/e systems. Well, it is computer controlled, and being 25 years old or so... That would be around the right era, I think? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:49 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Jerry Pournelle Parody Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811162527.5db7dace@ricochet.net> At 10:45 AM 8/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >(I was once appalled by the brisk cash gathered by a "reviewer" >of books for a newsletter for librarians, who'd turn a bagful >of new books into cash each week at the nearest used book store, >after dismissing each with barely a paragraph "review".) Heck, I've got a brother (not my fault) who gets stuff for free just by passing out a business card for a fake magazine along with a heaping helping of BS. Unfortunately, I once made the mistake of saying he could use my fax to receive something, now I get all kinds of junk fax addressed to him or various pseudonyms he's made up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Denver Finds -- still avail Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811175711.5db7d6fe@ricochet.net> At 08:27 PM 8/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >That's Magnavox Odyssey. Is it just the Odyssey, or Odyssey2? If you got >a plain Odyssey (circa 1972) then you've got yourself quite a find. Yep, Magnavox. Left the brain home this trip. 8^) (Or fried it driving 24 hours straight.) And it was an Odyssey 2. Actually ended up with 2 of them, one with permanently connected joysticks and one with a Dx-9 connected joysticks. And no, I don't collect video games. (In spite of having the Atari Pong, Atari Pinball (on loan), 2 Odysseys, 2 TV Fun's, Atari 2600, Atari Lynx, Atari Jaguar...) >> "TV (that is, two (2)) game consoles, and an Atari Pong game in the box. > >Atari Pong is cool. I thought so. 8^) The first part of that should have been 'two [APF] "TV Fun" game consoles', btw. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:53 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Amiga Support Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811183338.54b7d1d8@ricochet.net> For all you Amiga fanatics, I ran across an Amiga store in Dnever (well, Aurora, actually). It's called The Computer Room, and they can be found at or at 2760 S. Havana St., Aurora, CO, 1-303-696-8973. They also had a machine in there in a very purple case. (Not disgusting Barney purple, but really cool fast purple.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Aug 11 21:19:54 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980811184621.4ccf903e@ricochet.net> >PG Manney wrote: > >> Will trade for ??? Have lots of Commodore and PC stuff, some Apple. >> >> manney@lrbcg.com Hmmm... If you're near Denver, there was a Plus/4 in the box at (iirc) the ARC thrift shop on Florida and S. Broadway. Or perhaps someone who is still in that area could pick it up for you? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Aug 11 22:37:51 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System Message-ID: S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of them left in the Southern California area. So just a reminder to my esteemed ListDwellers.. I have a big 11/04 system that is free to a good home, details can be read in the archives under a siliar heading, or e-mail me for details. If there is no interest, I must part out the system to make room for Other DEC Stuff. And also, Thanks to all who have written with advice to my last round of novice system config questions. Cheers John From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 11 21:12:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Heads up: (almost) FREE Solaris! In-Reply-To: <35D070C1.C5D9C7FA@jps.net> Message-ID: >Looks like Sun Microsystems is jumping on the freebie bandwagon now. I >think this story will be of particular interest to those of us who own >older SPARCStations. > > Enjoy! > >http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/116306.html?st.ne.fd.mnaw A better link is http://www.sun.com/edu/solaris (yes, I've got it memorized, and I don't even like Solaris). It's version 2.6, and it covers both x86 and that Sparc thingy. You've got to sign up with some sort of developer program, and then they'll ship you for the cost of shipping and handling the media. It's for educational and personal use only. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal, and I'll probably get myself a copy in case I ever get a Ultra cheap Sparc. One of the reasons I've avioded them when I've had the chance was the trouble of getting an OS (yes, I know there are free alternatives). Almost everyone I've mentioned it to at work wants a copy. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:42:30 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199808120445.AAA25195@smtp.interlog.com> On 11 Aug 98 at 21:04, cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would > work its way under the keys and do the job, but I'll have to bite the > bullet and go inside. By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? > > colan > The older models had a built-in cassette, the newer models took a cassette tape to record your programs. Keying in programs from mags. was part of the fun. It had MSBasic and IIRC an IEEE4388 interface. I would think that most of the VIC-20 programs would work on it, taking into account memory limitations. I think PetBasic and Commodore Basic were virtually the same. There were several FDDs available for it later. the 4040, 8050,8250 ( these last 2 were dual disk-drives) and the 2031LPFD (low profile drive) which I have ,pending the arrival of a PET to replace the one I gave away many moons ago. Contact me by e-mail re a PET BASIC book which, since we're virtual neighbours, I'll lend you, and I have an extra VIC-20 Programmers Manual which I'm sure we can arrange a trade for. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Aug 11 19:42:31 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808120445.AAA25214@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Aug 97 at 14:59, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on > > in this thread. > > Now don't you think that's a little much ! > > > > Larry (in indignant mode) > > lwalker@interlog.com > > Well, I guess it's better than whoever used 0 text lines for a 0 line > response. At least with the 70 lines, you know what they're talking about. > With 0 text lines, and no response, your guess is as good as mine for what > they meant :-) > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > Not really, the responses without a msg are just honest mistakes or problems with equipment. Take a detour and read the usenet netiquette FAQ. You might learn something. Nuff said . ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From pcoad at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:07:10 1998 From: pcoad at ncal.verio.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980811184621.4ccf903e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > Hmmm... If you're near Denver, there was a Plus/4 in the box at (iirc) the > ARC thrift shop on Florida and S. Broadway. Or perhaps someone who is > still in that area could pick it up for you? > Survey time: How many people have Plus/4s which are not in the box? I've got two in the box (no not in the same box). Were these machines so bad that they were shelved even before the box made it to the trash? --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 02:33:21 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <004701bdc27f$563fd160$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Bill Girnius wrote: > My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk > called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me > personally. I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing me. ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:42:30 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk > > called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me > > personally. > > I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If > so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing > me. ;) SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. So they are similar, but I don't know what kind of compatibility they have between them. You should be able to get to a command line to SOS. You might just need a normal SOS system disk, unless that's what you have already. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 02:46:48 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people are > mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives without > either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came with > the drive. That's what I thought. I don't have Prodos or catalyst, but the SOS utilities disk with the drivers and setup programs seems to indicate that I should be able to access the drive without anything fancy. > From what I remember you're correct in waiting for the ready light to go > out - the Profile does a block-by-block check of the drive each time you > switch it on, so the fact that the ready light's blinking and then > stopping is a good sign. The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a source for confusion. It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is ready. >> Also, I've got two Profile controllers, one in slot 3 and one in slot 4. >> I coulfn't get it to work at all from the one in slot 3, simply because it >> seems to have been preconfigured to look at slot 4. > > aha, has anyone ever tried this? I've got two profile drives but have > never managed to get both to work at once, only one's ever recognised. > Will the system support two drives at once (I can't remember if my > problem was being unable to get anything working in a slot different > from 4, or whether it was just that two controller cards didn't want to > work in the same machine) I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, so I guess one is dead. As is the drive, perhaps. I attempted to format the drive tonight, and I got the error "Format error #21. Internal program error.". I'm hoping it's a software error, but if it's hardware there's likely little I can do about it. Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have different wiring? The reason I say that the drive may not be replacable is that although it's an ST-506, the board on the bottom is (c)1981 Apple Computer Inc. So Apple has gone and customized it somehow. :/ > cheers > > Jules. Thanks Jules, you're the only one not to try to involve Prodos so far. ;) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From afritz at delphid.ml.org Wed Aug 12 03:11:33 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... Message-ID: Quick question: what's a DEC DS200? (I'm assuming it means DECstation 200, but I'm also guessing it's x86-based and has no relation to the larger MIPS-based systems). Another question: what would be a reasonable offer for a stripped DECsystem 5500? The guy seems to want a (IMHO) ridiculous price for it (somewhere around US$900 as far as I can tell). He seems to think he can sell it to someone that will use it to it's full potential, pitting it against modern high-end machines. My offer, needless to say, was no where near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone a competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much faster than it's TC relatives.) Also, is there a FAQ or something somewhere explaining common hardware? I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it would be a FAQ by now. af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 02:54:57 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Sega AI Game Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got a chance to play with this mysterious machine tonight. First, the name is "Sega AI Computer". It was made in late 1986. The manual is in Japanese, but Geek is universal: 128KB OS, SEGA PROLOG; 256K ROM; 128KB ROM carts (JIS standard, similar to PCMCIA 1.0); 128K RAM; 64K RAM; V20 (8088) CPU; RF, composite, and RGB outputs; optional floppy drive; built-in cassette drive; full qwerty/kanji detachable keyboard; touch pad; cursor pad with left/right buttons. (I'll have web-pics of it eventually.) It has several prototype game carts with it, and I could only get a few to work (most have exposed UV-erasable EPROMs). So, what do you get when you cross a Prolog-based AI machine with a game machine? Mind-numbingly dull games! Man, Eliza is exciting compared to this software. But I still can't get over the concept. I'd be floored if marketing ever let this thing see the day of light, but the hardware is definitely production quality. From the software and the general presentation in the manual, I'd guess they were aiming for the educational market. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 02:57:32 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Lisa hard drive repair Message-ID: Ok, so I'd like to make use of the recent discussion we had concerning hard drive repair and attack the "widget" drive in my Lisa 2/10 to see if I can bring it back to life. Does anybody know where I can find technical info on this drive? A web resource that I don't know about perhaps? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 12 03:04:32 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. ^^^^ Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) > So they are similar, but I don't know what kind of compatibility they have > between them. You should be able to get to a command line to SOS. You > might just need a normal SOS system disk, unless that's what you have > already. Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ If it's possible, how would I get to a command line from /UTILITIES ? I do still have all those Apple III disk images that I got from a publically unnamable source ( ;) ), but just getting them into machine-readable format proved to be such a huge hassle that I never got around to completing the task (and even my //e's Prodos disk is now corrupted). Give me 48-hour days and I might have it done within the week. Though a serial cable for the //c would help loads. Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the files directly to disk on my Amiga. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 03:19:05 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Calculator/abacus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sure there are a couple of calculator freaks on this list. I saw an oddball Sharp Elsimate (forgot to note the model number) with built-in abacus tonight. I'm pretty sure it was a novelty calc, but it's not like Sharp to have a sense of humor. Perhaps this was intended as an Asian cultural bridge? -- Doug From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Aug 12 03:21:20 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: PDP-8(?) as boat anchor In-Reply-To: <35D0BAC5.6895@geocities.com> References: <13379015923.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <199808120821.SAA10630@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:42 PM 11-08-98 -0500, Poesie wrote: >Well, I asked one of my friends who still worked there if he could check >on any PDP type equipment; I thought it was worth a shot. apparently the >big man heard about it and told him some story about how he had hated >one so much as a student, he got one as scrap and filled it with >concrete and sunk it out on the lake w/ a huge eye-bolt to connect the >sailboat to. A moron's revenge, I guess. Well I just wonder what about an -* that could get someone so steamed up that they'd want to take revenge 20? years later. Of course, with my yachties hat on, we'd use almost anything to act as a weight. My favorite was old railway carriage wheels. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Aug 12 03:21:37 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply Message-ID: >> Survey time: How many people have Plus/4s which are not in the box? [raises hand in the air] actually my plus/4s completely dead - has anyone got schematics anywhere or know what commonly went wrong with these machines? (Unfortunately it was donated to me in a dead state - I've no guarantee that ROMs haven't been swapped round etc. - can anyone tell me which chips should go in which sockets just to be sure? :) (If I power on the machine all I get is a black screen, no meaningful display of any sort) >> I've got two in the box (no not in the same box). Were these >> machines so bad that they were shelved even before the box made it >> to the trash? well I must say that the manuals make them sound pretty good, but that has to be a lie - I mean, how common are these things? (they're certainly not in the UK anyway!!) cheers Jules > From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Aug 12 03:32:00 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: >>> Hmm, well I don't know about Prodos or the 'catalyst' proggy that people >>>are >>> mentioning, I know I managed to get directory listings from my drives >>>without >>> either, although it *may* have been using a diagnostics disk that came >>>with >>> the drive. >> >>That's what I thought. I don't have Prodos or catalyst, but the SOS >>utilities disk with the drivers and setup programs seems to indicate that >>I should be able to access the drive without anything fancy. hmm, I should hopefully be going up to my folk's place in two or three weeks time - if I do and this is still a problem then I'll try to get access to my /// and see what's what (I can't remember how far back in the pile it is though :) >> The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I >> hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a >> source for confusion. >> It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is >> ready. that sounds right to me, too :) But at least it's changing state - I guess I'd expect it to carry on blinking if there was a fault. (Out of interest, how long was it blinking for? Seem to remember it used to be somewhere around 30-40 seconds on my drives) > >> I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have >> to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into >> slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, >> so I guess one is dead. Interesting. My problem was probably that more than one card couldn't be configured at once then (maybe I should get hold of a copy of prodos from somewhere and that'll sort things out? I can't imagine the firm that originally used this machine swapping drives around all the time!) > >> Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin >> cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer >> than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have >> different wiring? well, I remember the cable didn't have any twists in it - ie. it was either a full crossover or straight-through. One of my cables is original, and it's no more than a foot long. Chances are these things would suffer from interference - try a shorter cable and see if it helps. > >> Thanks Jules, you're the only one not to try to involve Prodos so far. ;) ooh, give me time... :) really must get back into using the /// and finding out what there is available for it - everyone seems to hate the machine, but it seems an interesting beast to say the least!! (Last time I used it though it made me realise how used I was to MS-DOS, SOS being the nightmare that it is...) cheers Jules > From cdrmool at interlog.com Wed Aug 12 04:03:19 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader. The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its about as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want to send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also, being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in what has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother. I promise it will never happen again. Colan From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 12 05:45:07 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:52 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <004101bdc5de$45cb39c0$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Im sorry, I mean SOS. have you been able to get to the HD yet? Let me know whats up and maybe I can help. -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:39 AM Subject: Re: Apple III & Profile > > >On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Bill Girnius wrote: > >> My profile's on my III's can't be accessed through Prodos, but need a disk >> called catalyst to get to the drive. If you need a copy email me >> personally. > >I don't have ProDOS on the III, only SOS. Or are they the same thing? If >so, how the heck do I get to a command line, this menu system is killing >me. ;) > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca >http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Wed Aug 12 06:02:02 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808121102.NAA28182@IAEhv.nl> It is not a BIOS trick. The extra 128K appears in the upper memory area, from D000 to EFFF. There was a special device driver available, USE!UMBS.SYS, that turned this memory into UMB's if you were running DOS 5. Great for parking mouse and network drivers in. The driver was written by a hobbyist as a memory study project, it was available with the machine code source so you could modify it for other computers. IIRC it should be on Simtel. I also have a copy around here somewhere. I used to admin a network that had lots of Philips XTs, NMS9100 and P3105 were the ones that had this extra memory. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 12 07:18:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... Message-ID: <199808121218.AA16733@world.std.com> < Quick question: what's a DEC DS200? (I'm assuming it means DECstation < 200, but I'm also guessing it's x86-based and has no relation to the < larger MIPS-based systems). the only thin I know by that part number is a DECserver200, a 8port eithernet/LAT terminal server 68000 based. < Another question: what would be a reasonable offer for a stripped < DECsystem 5500? The guy seems to want a (IMHO) ridiculous price for it Unknown on price but those are fast systems in the MIPS lineup. It's also not that old (to be under the 10 year rule). < near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much < more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone < competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much fast < than it's TC relatives.) TC??? It was a fast machine when it was introduced. fast compared to modern with PII/233s and the like is a unfair comparison. < Also, is there a FAQ or something somewhere explaining common hardware? DECs linup was huge so that would be a large list (the option module list was several very thick volumes and listed everything DEC had a part number for) < I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it woul < be a FAQ by now. crank up your web thingie and follow the PDP-8 trail. The DECmate series is a PDP-8 in CMOS clothing. There are some BIG faq out there for that one. Look here: Frequently Asked Questions about DEC PDP-8 models and options. By Douglas Jones, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (with help from many folks) Sites known to carry reasonably current FTPable copies of this file: ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/alt.sys.pdp8 ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/dec-faq ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk:/pub/usenet/news.answers/alt.sys.pdp8 Allison From afritz at delphid.ml.org Wed Aug 12 11:01:19 1998 From: afritz at delphid.ml.org (Adam Fritzler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: DS200 and some other DEC stuff... In-Reply-To: <199808121218.AA16733@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > < near what he wanted! From what I can tell the DS5500 would be not much > < more than a rare novelty (it IS a Qbus-based MIPS, after all), let alone > < competitor to modern servers. (I don't think it was even that much fast > < than it's TC relatives.) > > TC??? It was a fast machine when it was introduced. fast compared to > modern with PII/233s and the like is a unfair comparison. I was just going by the TPS performance figures from DEC's big list on their web site. It listed it at a mere 21 TPS, with the TC DS5k's running around 19TPS. It also listed much newer AS200 4/233's (which can be had for less than $400s these days) at 198 TPS (ir, 9x faster). This is why the price seemed ridiculous. It appears these are not very good numbers to go by! The DS5500 appears to be rare enough that no one knows too much about it (none of the free unix-derivs support it, and there's barely any mention of it elsewhere). > < I'd like explanation on the DECmate as well, but that seems like it woul > < be a FAQ by now. > > crank up your web thingie and follow the PDP-8 trail. The DECmate series > is a PDP-8 in CMOS clothing. There are some BIG faq out there for that > one. Thanks. af ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adam Fritzler | afritz@delphid.ml.org | Animals who are not penguins can afritz@iname.com | can only wish they were. http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ | -- Chicago Reader http://www.pst.com/ | 15 Oct 1982 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From manney at lrbcg.com Wed Aug 12 11:04:22 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Teeny Tiny Jumpers Message-ID: <01bdc60a$de9f5b00$0100007f@localhost> I have a Quantum 270 MB IDE that requires really small jumpers. Standard ones (e.g., Maxtor) are too big. Anyone have any? Thanks "Corduroy pillows make headlines." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/b595cc16/attachment.html From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 12 07:20:50 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808121102.NAA28182@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <199808121623.MAA11378@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Aug 98 at 13:02, Kees Stravers wrote: > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > It is not a BIOS trick. The extra 128K appears in the upper memory area, > from D000 to EFFF. There was a special device driver available, USE!UMBS.SYS, > that turned this memory into UMB's if you were running DOS 5. Great for > parking mouse and network drivers in. The driver was written by a hobbyist > as a memory study project, it was available with the machine code source > so you could modify it for other computers. IIRC it should be on Simtel. > I also have a copy around here somewhere. I used to admin a network that > had lots of Philips XTs, NMS9100 and P3105 were the ones that had this > extra memory. > > Kees > > -- It was a neat machine for an XT. I don't recall if I ever checked to see if it was using that extra memory or if it had any SW with it. My friend will be delighted to know that he can squeeze out a little extra ram for memory-hungry DOS programs. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 12:13:07 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <199808121713.KAA06399@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Just purchased an "Outbound Laptop System". I can't find a power switch on the unit. Does it use the keyboard to power on? I don't have the power adapter. What are the specs for it? Can the Outbound run directly off the adapter or does it need to run off the battery? Thanks! Tom Owad P.S. A while back there was some discussion concerning Mac Portables. Paul Kelbaugh of Newport Computer Trading Company has all sorts of Mac Portable parts & accessories for sale. Phone: 703-861-MACS. Email: kelbaugh@aol.com -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 13:15:55 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 12, 98 04:04:32 am Message-ID: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> > > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. > ^^^^ > Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) That may be (I've never seen it). However, I've heard that the file data structures are exactly the same between SOS and ProDOS. (That is, the format of directories, volumes, etc. are compatible). ProDOS does have definitions for many more of the 256 (255?) allowable file types -- SOS defined fewer. So be a little thankful. :) > Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly > bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, > which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal > because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. Put side 1 in drive 1 and side 2 in drive 2. Then you should be able to use the menu system, editor, and the compiler. (Of course, you may be missing one or more of those sides.) I've decided that Pascal is cool but is also a pain to use. It's somewhat of an offshoot from normal Apple software; I don't know how much Apple updated it over the years; it's cranky (your disk drives must be in slot 6 -- also, if you switch disks at unexpected times the program gets discombobulated); and even compared with other versions of the UCSD software, it's a little unusual. UCSD updated their Pascal system through two more versions (III.x and IV.x) but Apple stayed at II.x. > I do still have all those Apple III disk images that I got from a > publically unnamable source ( ;) ), but just getting them into > machine-readable format proved to be such a huge hassle that I never got > around to completing the task (and even my //e's Prodos disk is now > corrupted). Give me 48-hour days and I might have it done within the > week. Though a serial cable for the //c would help loads. Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or somewhere else? > Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these > disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then > I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the > files directly to disk on my Amiga. Shrinkit is an archive program (like PKZIP, gzip, etc.) though it does have a special mode for compressing entire disks. I think it uses a file format called NuFX and there is supposedly a compatible C library for UNIX (nfxllib? nfxtools? something like that). You know, I just happen to have a disk with Shrinkit on one side and ProTERM on the other. Perhaps it would save you a lot of time if I sent it to you? (I have another copy of the same disk, so I can spare a copy. Though it's been a LONG time since I booted it up, so I don't know what shape it's in.) Both programs should be very pleasant to use on the //e or //c. I don't know if they'll run on the ///. (The special ][+ versions of Shrinkit/Unshrinkit should run on the /// but they're less capable.) Send me your mailing address. -- Derek dpeschel@u.washington.edu From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 13:19:21 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Aug 11, 98 08:37:51 pm Message-ID: <199808121819.LAA06976@saul4.u.washington.edu> > S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP > system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of > them left in the Southern California area. I'm interested (but haven't gotten around to replying yet). Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would be a real pain. Maybe the timing of your offer is unfortunate for all the California people. -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 12 13:39:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System Message-ID: <199808121843.OAA04378@charity.harvard.net> I'm interested too but I'm even more geographically challenged (in Massachusetts). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: D. Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@u.washington.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 2:19 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Free 11/04 System > > > > S'funny. I thought there might be more interest in a working PDP > > system, because everyone complains there are (relatively) fewer of > > them left in the Southern California area. > > I'm interested (but haven't gotten around to replying yet). > > Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would > be a real pain. > > Maybe the timing of your offer is unfortunate for all the > California people. > > -- Derek > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Aug 12 12:32:20 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Free 11/04 System In-Reply-To: <199808121843.OAA04378@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: > I'm interested too but I'm even more geographically challenged (in > Massachusetts). > > > > Unfortunately, I'm in Seattle :( and shipping the thing would > > be a real pain. I'm in Iowa. Maybe the folks down at Maharishi U in Fairfield (IA) would be willing to meditate and levitate the 11/04 to my house. =-D Anthony Clifton, KC0CUE From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 13:56:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > I've decided that Pascal is cool but is also a pain to use. It's > somewhat of an offshoot from normal Apple software; I don't know how > much Apple updated it over the years; it's cranky (your disk drives must > be in slot 6 -- also, if you switch disks at unexpected times the > program gets discombobulated); and even compared with other versions of > the UCSD software, it's a little unusual. UCSD updated their Pascal > system through two more versions (III.x and IV.x) but Apple stayed at > II.x. I'll just say this: Apple UCSD Pascal blows. As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". I kid you not. It was like "Gee, I didn't find the disk I wanted, so my head exploded and I just formatted your disk with all your class projects for no logical reason. Duh." The compiler was slow but decent. The editor was crummy. The "OS" was really more of a worse-than-crud menu system. Still, SirTech software built Wizardry--one of the all time best games ever--in Apple Pascal, and it was highly successful. So it was usable. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:32:59 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13379256864.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [SOS?] Why did I parse that as Son Of Stopgap? ------- From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 14:54:19 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <13379256864.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 98 12:32:59 pm Message-ID: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> > [SOS?] > > Why did I parse that as Son Of Stopgap? Because you're wierd? :) Maybe you confused one strange program with another. If you work for XKL then you may have used SOS (the editor). I never have, but I think I saw a mode diagram in an RT-11 manual (e.g., "Push these keys when you're in mode X to get to mode Y"). My reaction was, "Oh sh*t, this is like a maze!". At least DEC repented and wrote EDT. In many ways EDT is a really good, well-designed program. I sorta like vi too, though. :) _Do_ you work for XKL? I thought you were a student (like me). -- Derek From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:57:53 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379261397.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Do I work for XKL?] I wish. No, I just have an account on Toad. I've never used SOS (Maybe it's on here! I'll go look) but I've heard the horror stories... I'd love to get paid for studying PDP-10 arcana. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 12 14:59:06 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121954.MAA01053@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379261618.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Maybe it's here?] Nope. No sign of it. ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 12 15:26:36 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: References: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812152636.00c30100@pc> At 11:56 AM 8/12/98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: > >I'll just say this: Apple UCSD Pascal blows. > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The >error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 16:28:31 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980812152636.00c30100@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does not give you a way > >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could be worse than > >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once lost my entire > >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the right disk. The > >error message was something like "Volume not found: directory erased". > > UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. > It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored > contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, > you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it > would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it > wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought This was 10 years ago in high school. I doubt I can get back credit :) > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in the wrong disk and the OS puked all over it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Wed Aug 12 16:47:11 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <199808122149.RAA27666@charity.harvard.net> > On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, John Foust wrote: > > > >As you mentioned, if you put the wrong disk in, it does > not give you a way > > >to recover. I know its hard to believe any software could > be worse than > > >Windows at error recovery, but Apple Pascal was. I once > lost my entire > > >disk of Pascal programs because the OS could not find the > right disk. The > > >error message was something like "Volume not found: > directory erased". > > > > UCSD Pascal's directory structure is absolutely elementary. > > It's FAT has room for a fixed number of files, and each is stored > > contiguously in logical blocks. If you've still got the disk, > > you can easily recover your files. I'm not sure why it > > would decide to zap the directory structure - are you sure it > > wasn't your fault? :-) There's a volume label, and I thought > > This was 10 years ago in high school. I doubt I can get back > credit :) > > > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. > > It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in > the wrong > disk and the OS puked all over it. > I remember this happening if you were writing to a disk and accidentally put the wrong one in. Tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:33:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: PET 4016 In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 11, 98 09:04:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1019 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/17ac85fc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:43:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Lisa hard drive repair In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 12, 98 00:57:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/018f09de/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:45:43 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Calculator/abacus In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 12, 98 03:19:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/77d227c2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 12:59:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Wanted: Commodore Plus/4 Power Supply In-Reply-To: from "Julian Richardson" at Aug 12, 98 09:21:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/aa830928/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Aug 12 17:25:11 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980812135503.652f826a@ricochet.net> At 10:13 AM 8/12/98 -0700, you wrote: > Just purchased an "Outbound Laptop System". I can't find a power >switch on the unit. Does it use the keyboard to power on? > I don't have the power adapter. What are the specs for it? Can the >Outbound run directly off the adapter or does it need to run off the >battery? Check out . Is yours the Laptop (two pieces) or the Notebook (one piece)? If the latter, I can get you the specs for the PS when I get home (if you don't hear from me, e-mail me to remind me.) To start it, hit return or space on the keyboard. Specs depend on the model. If it's the notebook, there's a model # on the back by the expansion ports. Could be 68K or 68030 (iirc). It can run directly off the PS, but batteries should also be readily available (it's a standard type of camcorder battery.) If it's the Laptop, and you decide to part with it, do let me know! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 18:18:49 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Outbound Laptop Message-ID: <199808122318.QAA18693@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Check out . Is yours the >Laptop (two pieces) or the Notebook (one piece)? If the latter, I can get >you the specs for the PS when I get home (if you don't hear from me, e-mail >me to remind me.) To start it, hit return or space on the keyboard. It's the Notebook, Model 200 series. Thanks for your help. BTW, I sent you an email offering to trade some NeXT and Mac equipment for a Dash '030, but it was while I was having trouble with my email account. Did you receive the email? Interested in trading? Sincerely, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Aug 12 18:19:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808122149.RAA27666@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > > the OS at least checked this before it assumed the right disk > > > was in the drive - unless your program was working at a low > > > level, and asked for a specific (#4:, #5:) drive. > > > > It was the OS itself that maimed my files. The OS! I put in > > the wrong disk and the OS puked all over it. > > I remember this happening if you were writing to a disk and accidentally > put the wrong one in. I can't remember the exact circumstances, but I wasn't doing anything extraordinary at the time. Just swapping disks as the OS told me when I was trying to load a source file or something silly like that. It was totally unwarranted. That's why I still remember such a silly thing to this day. It should be a case study in poor exception handling for Computer Science 201. That and the scene in the re-make of The Fly with Jeff Goldblum where the computer defaults to the chamber with the fly that ends up being merged with Jeff's character because he didn't specify the destination pod or whatever. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 17:26:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 11:15:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1892 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980812/efedc745/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 12 19:29:54 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: References: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812192954.0093de50@pc> At 11:26 PM 8/12/98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >It's not 'really' Apple software. It's the UCSD P-system configured to >run on an Apple ][. I've got a very similar system on my Sirius, and I >believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. Interested folk might visit my UCSD web page at the address below. I've got my C source there for dealing with P-System disk images, for getting directories and bursting files from images. As for Sam's childhood trauma disk injury, should we discuss which systems didn't have a hardware-based "disk changed" indicator, and which relied on software methods to prevent that sort of disaster? >It ran >on the PERQ. But the difference between the UCSD p-system OS and the PERQ >OS (POS) was quite amazing - POS had a proper filesystem (a directory I saw my first PERQ a few weeks ago at the ACM SIGGRAPH meeting in Orlando. It was in the 70s history exhibit, along with one of my Teraks. Someone else had lent a PERQ, I don't know who. It wasn't running, though, and I don't know anything else about it. Interesting looking! - John Jefferson Computer Museum From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 19:35:35 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 References: <199808111615.AA23733@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D234D7.DFCE3321@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Not being a OS programmer, I don't know what the app was looking for, > < but the Lynx software barfed on 3.0,3.2,3.3 with the error message > < "software will run only under DOS 2.x, please correct and try again". > < I've tried several PC and MS DOS versions and setver of several flavors > < (6.0,6.2,6.22) and DR-DOS 5,6,7 and it won't run except under > < 2.0,2.1,2.11(Tandy version). > > Then do a "help setver" from dos and read up. That is what setver is for. SETVER unfortunately works better in the breach than the barrel. It's a nice idea, would have been great if it had worked consistently. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 12 19:35:36 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 12, 98 11:26:48 pm Message-ID: <199808130035.RAA27756@saul10.u.washington.edu> > > Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. > > Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. > > Are they? I've got UCSD Pascal (and Fortran, for that matter) for the > Apple ][, on Apple-labeled disks, and it came on 4 single-sided disks > Apple0, Apple1, Apple2, Apple 3. I used to use it on a 4-drive machine, > with Apple 1,2,3 and my program disk in the drives. Well, I think that's how it worked, but the last time I used the actual disks was several years ago. We may have used different versions. Of course, emulators don't care if something's on the front or back of a disk, and I use an emulator now. > It's not 'really' Apple software. It's the UCSD P-system configured to > run on an Apple ][. I've got a very similar system on my Sirius, and I > believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. > > That's why it doesn't really behave like a normal Apple program. Yes, but Apple as much as UCSD helped with the conversion and wrote system- specific libraries (none of which are documented in the generic UCSD docs I have access to). And you have to admit that Apple could have made a more flexible program. (I never managed to configure it for 80 columns, though the manual described how.) > Of course (it's been a long time since I promoted my favourite classic, > right :-)), p-code begat q-code, which was very similar with graphics > instructions (draw a line was a pseudomachine instruction!), etc. It ran > on the PERQ. But the difference between the UCSD p-system OS and the PERQ > OS (POS) was quite amazing - POS had a proper filesystem (a directory > tree, a very nice way of storing pointers to file blocks, etc), a proper > command line, a sort-of pop-up menu interface, etc, etc, etc. A very nice > OS, running on some nice hardware. Quite a toy in 1979... I *really* have to see a Perq sometime. And I'm still rather pissed at the reaction I got from the people at Bletchley Park... they DO have Perqs, but hearing "All the machines we want switched on are switched on" eliminated any hopes of seeing them the day I visited. :( -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 20:13:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980812192954.0093de50@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 12, 98 07:29:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/a9fbab50/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 12 20:20:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808130035.RAA27756@saul10.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 05:35:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/025669eb/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 20:41:58 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <199808121351.JAA05197@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about > it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the > messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like > every reader has it's problems. I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > ---------- > > From: cdrmool@interlog.com > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 5:03 AM > > > > > > Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were > > annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader. > > The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its > about > > as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and > > accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want > to > > send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to > > cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also, > > being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in > what > > has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but > > after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother. > > I promise it will never happen again. > > > > Colan > > -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From tomowad at earthlink.net Wed Aug 12 20:52:23 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:53 2005 Subject: PERQ (was: Apple III & Profile) Message-ID: <199808130152.SAA02620@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >> I *really* have to see a Perq sometime. > >It's even more fun to own one (or 4...). They're very nice machines. >Remember they predate the IBM PC, predate the Lisa and Mac, and even >predate Xerox _selling_ workstations, although Xerox were designing >workstations long before the PERQ. I believe the same person designed the >memory controller for one of the Xerox D-machines and for the PERQ. I think we need to see some picture of your PERQs, Tony. While they're running, of course. I never even heard of a PERQ before subscribing to this list, let alone see one. Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From yowza at yowza.com Wed Aug 12 21:12:07 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > > Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about > > it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the > > messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like > > every reader has it's problems. > > I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your > computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a > month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use > anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). I really hope Jason is running ROM'd versions of Microsoft apps on something like a Windows CE handheld just so I can see that hat trick! -- Doug From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Aug 12 21:51:16 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: PET 4016 References: <199808120702.AAA15572@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D254A4.DC93B0F3@goldrush.com> > From: > Subject: PET 4016 > > I picked up a Commodore Pet for old times sake (it was the first desktop > computer I ever got my hands on). Unfortunately a couple of keys are not > responding consistantly. I suspect that some goop got spilled on it at > some point (it was a board of education computer originally). I tried > some head cleaner which has worked for me before but not this time. > Anyone with experience with this with advice? > > > TIA > colan Remove the keyboard and undo all those little screws (takes a long time, especially after the second or third try to get a particular key working again.) , unsolder the shift-lock switch then 'Erase' the circuit board contacts with a pink pearl eraser then use the head cleaner to clean the board further. Ususally the rubber 'feet' of the keys become dry or gunky and will need to be cleaned to get them going I have seen jobs on PET keyboards to as far as putting gold leaf on the feet, but it seems to only be a temporary fix... I have found as a last resort to a troublesome key is a light brush (on the rubber foot) with fine sand paper can get the contact working again. Careful what you try you don't want to damage anything. > From: Scott Walde > Subject: Re: PET 4016 > > >Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was hoping that the head cleaner would > >work its way under the keys and do the job, To get it to where it is needed from the outside you would just about have to soak it in cleaner (not good for the key ledgends). :/ > but I'll have to bite the > >bullet and go inside. It's not that bad, very simple design, just be grounded when you unplug and re-plug the keyboard cable... > By the way, what peripherals went with this thing? > > Typically a tape drive, maybe a disk drive, maybe a printer. The disk > drives and printers connected to the IEEE-488 bus. (One of the two > bigger edge connectors on the back.) The tape drive (the drives used on > the VIC-20 will work) connects to the narrow edge connector. Also the IEEE-488 can hook to a variety of scientific and Electronic Measuring Devices, Plotters, etc. There were also Graphics boards (for higher resolution) graphics tablets, and other nifty goodies. Check out the PET FAQ I maintain for more information: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.html -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 17:56:27 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130233.WAA29892@commercial.cgocable.net> Hi Jason! > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? Oh there are: Miniscribe (early Maxtor) 8051A (40MB, voice coil) supports XT or AT mode. Seagate in either: ST325A/X or ST351A/X (quiet stepper but pretty good). And Tandy have website for every all the way back to early models. Search for it with www.metacrawler.com By the way, squash the thoughts of getting IE installed. Get Netscape 3.04 gold (very reliable, appox 15MB total) and seperate email program like Pegasus Mail (under 1MB), suitable programs for mail use. Netscape 4.x is too new and too bloated for current crop of late 486's and most pentiums. Real bad program is IE 4.x which breaks everything especially angering those notebook owners. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Aug 13 22:03:44 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808130309.XAA10219@gate.usaor.net> > > Oh there are: > > Miniscribe (early Maxtor) 8051A (40MB, voice coil) supports XT or AT > mode. Seagate in either: ST325A/X or ST351A/X (quiet stepper but > pretty good). > Thanks! Now, does anyone have a spare one of these drives laying around?? > And Tandy have website for every all the way back to early models. > Search for it with www.metacrawler.com > > By the way, squash the thoughts of getting IE installed. Get > Netscape 3.04 gold (very reliable, appox 15MB total) and seperate > email program like Pegasus Mail (under 1MB), suitable programs for > mail use. Netscape 4.x is too new and too bloated for current > crop of late 486's and most pentiums. Real bad program is IE 4.x > which breaks everything especially angering those notebook owners. > I already tried it. Nothing ever loaded right. Java never worked, either. IE4 worked fine. It also worked fine on my Toshiba laptop, until the HD blew for the 4th time (IE didn't do it). -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 18:34:02 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130309.XAA10219@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130311.XAA30075@commercial.cgocable.net> > Thanks! Now, does anyone have a spare one of these drives laying around?? You're welcome! > > > I already tried it. Nothing ever loaded right. Java never worked, either. > IE4 worked fine. It also worked fine on my Toshiba laptop, until the HD > blew for the 4th time (IE didn't do it). I'm impressed but try again! I have asolutely no problems in all 4 corner of any worlds even on 386sx 25 bandaid notebook I have. (sloooowwwwly). What is your toshiba laptop? No excess frill programs, extras to foul up your installation attempts? Jason D. > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Wed Aug 12 18:39:41 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: WTB: 486 notebook (reasons , see below) In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808130316.XAA30116@commercial.cgocable.net> Let me explain: 1. Vast mistrust to ebay guys and newsgroups so trying here because I trust everyone on this list and had good time dealing here. 2. Canadian dollars is very soft and still falling; costs 2 dollars to buy 1 US dollar. So, 300US is worth 600 CDN to get a used notebook. Which I can't afford now and not worth that value like that. 3. I'm preparing to get back into college again and most colleges campuses in Ontario, canada don't have dorms on site which I will be commuting daily by bus. I'm looking at couple places currently. The old 386 notebook I have is falling apart at the seams so I'm bespeeching (wrong word but you get the meaning! :) ) to mail list guys to find a decent used 486 notebook. Budget is around 150 to 200US across border or 350 CDN max if bought inside Canada. specs I'm looking for: 486dx2 3.3V or dx4 3.3V, Mono or TFT color, 16MB or up. FD builtin or external. 500mb or smallish HD ok 'cuz I have either 340 or 500mb hd to put in. Less than 7lbs excluding charger brick. Eurocom, compaq, TI, and thinkpads even odd brands (but still needs to be reliable and still easy to get part bits). Thanks very much and let you all guys go back to topic at hand here. Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 12 22:47:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <199808130347.AA18028@world.std.com> < >believe it was also available for the IBM PC, PDP11, Sage, etc. I've run it on Apple][, NS* Horizon(z80), and PDP-11/23 and all worked the same and fairly well though a bit slow. it was honest pascal and I used it to teach many people the language. < As for Sam's childhood trauma disk injury, should we discuss < which systems didn't have a hardware-based "disk changed" indicator, < and which relied on software methods to prevent that sort < of disaster? All of the systems I used DIDNOT have disk change logic, nor was it needed. the P-system does volcheck on a disk before writing or reading to make sure it's the right one. Likely the volume was of the same name or the kernel was corrupted. I know this as the NS* was only 80k per drive and three drives and I'd often put the wrong disk where ever. Also Most version had dupdir so if one directory was munged you could copy the other and use it. Allison From gram at cnct.com Wed Aug 12 23:58:14 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <199808130226.WAA00816@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <35D27266.C7A16621@cnct.com> Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your > > computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a > > month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use > > anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). > > > > > well , it WILL run other readers, but they won't fit. I have a Cyrix P200+ > w/80 MB RAM, and I had a 425 MB HD with 100 free MB, until lightning hit. > Now I'm stuck with a 100MB drive with 5MB free. MS-mail came with IE3.2, > which was already on the 100MB drive, along with Win '95. I normally use > Outlook Express, with IE4.0, but they just won't fit on this drive :-( My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work -- especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!) -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_ From karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au Thu Aug 13 10:27:52 1998 From: karlm at blitzen.canberra.edu.au (Karl Maftoum) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board Message-ID: Hi, I have one of the above, and I decided to drag it out and see if it still works, (which it did). The thing I was wondering was, did Central Point ever release the specs to the card? If not is there any chance of them doing so? As this would be a great boon to those of us who collect older stuff Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum@student.canberra.edu.au From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 13 00:22:55 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K In-Reply-To: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That may be very hard to find! - don > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Aug 13 00:30:01 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Recent Updates: Highgate's PDP-8 Page Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980812223001.00747dfc@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi All: Just a short note to remind everyone of the pdp-8 info that's online at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. Scans by David Gesswein, web page and small utilities by myself. New stuff just added: RK05 info, DM01 info, RX01/02 info COS-310 documentation, WPS documentation. More being added daily, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 00:32:53 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 13, 98 02:20:20 am Message-ID: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> > > And I'm still rather pissed at the reaction I got from the people at Bletchley > > This, alas is typical of computer museums. It's a great pity, especially > as I believe the Bletchley Park PERQs will just switch on. > Pity... And they wouldn't even pull the case, right, or show you the few > spare PERQ 3a boards that used to be there. The PERQ boards, especially > the PERQ 2 CPU board, are worth looking at... It's hard to express just how disappointed and even angry I was (especially without using obscenities). My expectations were high; I had come all the way from the US and had waited literally years to see the place. I was also feeling a bit cocky that day (I knew I know more than the average visitor knows, about computers and encryption and the math behind them). I hadn't had time to send e-mail in advance so knocking on the glass and introducing myself may have seemed bold. I don't envy the volunteers. They're desperately in need of money (the place is in disrepair) and they probably spend a lot of their time getting money from rich but unknowledgeable people. (Outside the shop housing the Colossus rebuild is a plaque commemorating its switching on. The plaque mentions the Duchess of Kent IIRC. The rebuild is only 1/5 or 2/5 done! [*]) Also the CCS which owns the computers is independent of the Park itself. But I still think they're making the situation worse for themselves. Their aloofness put me off ("We only come every two weeks -- we have other lives to lead, you know" someone told me in a somewhat frosty tone). The CCS is doing all kinds of projects, but very slowly. The Park's exhibits are beautiful (Their Enigma gave me exactly the same results as a simulation (except the sporadically non-lighting light bulbs, but I hear that's a common problem)) but the information underlying the exhibits is not being gathered or disseminated very quickly. Considering that these people know many things that are essentially irreplaceable (and aren't young either), I'd expect them to rethink their priorities somewhat (preserve and share what they have, welcome help, maybe come more often, and fix the buildings up). Are there cultural differences here? Are they still nervous about security? Were my expectations too high? Did I come across the wrong way? Were the wrong people there that day? All I know is that the degree of entropy there is one of the few things that can make me _really_ sad and angry. I won't even _mention_ the Science Museum (maybe next post) except to say: - The contents of the "Recent Additions" case are apparently the same as the last time someone else brought up the topic on the list. - If you go, be sure to visit the library. (Ask at the museum. It's part of (the far end of) Imperial College just down the street.) It goes a long way toward making up for the disappointment of the exhibits. And I still want to know what's in the PDP-16 book that I didn't have a chance to read! [*] 5 parallel sets of logic (one per hole in a 5-hole paper tape. Really!) The tape reader and one (or maybe two, I forget) sets of logic are done. -- Derek From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 13 00:44:30 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Copy II PC Deluxe Option Board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Karl Maftoum wrote: > > Hi, > > I have one of the above, and I decided to drag it out and see if it still > works, (which it did). The thing I was wondering was, did Central Point > ever release the specs to the card? If not is there any chance of them > doing so? As this would be a great boon to those of us who collect older > stuff > > Cheers > Karl Karl, as other will doubtless tell you also, Central Point was bought out by Symantec who now virtually denies the existance of the Deluxe Option Board or its forebears. - don From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Aug 11 11:37:16 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: <199808080702.AAA07129@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > >> >> Hi everyone... >> >>... >> the mouse (MO100) is totally dead...it only moves horizontally...I tried > >So, first open up the mouse, and clean the dirt out of the sensors.... While it's open, I also recommend you check continuity of the wires in the cable. I've had a mouse fail because there was a serious kink in one of the wires in the cable. That cable gets a lot of flexing and the kink eventually broke that wire. I got an intermittent fault so I could localize it by bending the cable manually and fix it by slitting the cable open, splicing the wire, and taping it back up. That's not a very elegant fix, but it worked. A whole new cable with a new connector at the end would be nicer. - Mark From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:43:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <35D24465.33BDD42E@cnct.com> Message-ID: <13379378978.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Uses MSmail?] I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface than use Outlook. In fact, I normally do. HELO myhostname MAIL FROM: me RCPT TO: you DATA xyzzy . QUIT ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:51:53 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Fun with an image editor... Message-ID: <13379380453.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Know those lame "JoeBob's_Random_Browser_NOW!" buttons? I slightly edited one (Yes, this is relevant.) Go look at http://makoto.umtec.com This is really interesting coming from my MicroVAX... I think I'll do a ITS-NOW! button next, with a link to a copy of "The HACRTN"... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 01:52:52 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop Message-ID: <13379380632.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Yes, I typoed. It's "The HACTRN". I noticed just after sending a ^Z. My phone line sucks. ------- From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 13 02:25:14 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile References: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D294DA.3B2A5FB@rain.org> D. Peschel wrote: > > exhibits. And I still want to know what's in the PDP-16 > book that > I didn't have a chance to read! Looking for anything particular? I used to repair the PDP-16s (glorified solid state controller basically), and still have most of the engineering dwgs. From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 02:30:40 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one > of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what > should it be connected? I managed to pick up at a thrift today the Lisa 2 Owner's Guide and a MacWrite/MacPaint boxed set. This last item is notable because in it, along with all the retail pack MacWrite and MacPaint stuff I found a shrinkwrapped MacWorks disk package and a receipt from Sun Remarketing for a Mac XL ($995 + $3 shipping). Maybe the Lisa will show up tomorrow morning, I must remember to stop by on my way to work. (: Anyway: the picture in the back of the book shows the Lisa 2/5 with its Profile disk stacked on top of the CPU and.. a DB25 ribbon. So it's definitely straight-through. It is depicted connected to the internal parallel port which the Lisa 2/10 lacks. (The manual states the 10 MB widget drive plugs into an 'internal parallel port'.) ok r. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 02:38:31 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <35D294DA.3B2A5FB@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 13, 98 00:25:14 am Message-ID: <199808130738.AAA08406@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Looking for anything particular? I used to repair the PDP-16s > (glorified solid state controller basically), and still have most of the > engineering dwgs. No, I really just wanted to know how it works. They get hardly any press and are probably quite rare now, so I was impressed to see a book on them. Are they programmable in any sense of the word? My mental image is that they can be made to do some data manipulation that would be very impressive on a general-purpose computer (because of the speed -- maybe simple conversions or the kind of operation that graphics ASICs do) but are very unextendable, so you reach a point where they just won't do something. Can they be cascaded to give you more flexibility? -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 02:41:51 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379380632.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 98 11:52:52 pm Message-ID: <199808130741.AAA01438@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Yes, I typoed. It's "The HACTRN". > I noticed just after sending a ^Z. My phone line sucks. There's not much room for error with these six-character one-case names. On the other hand, I read it as "HACTRN" the first time. And I even know what a HACTRN is. (top-level DDT, right? DDT being the shell which is a glorified debugger). You'll be happy to know that you missed the tyop in your message subject... it says "tyop" instead of "typo". (Yes, the "tyop" above is intentional.) What baud rate are you using? Can the host handle 110 baud? Maybe you should step down to that rate for more reliability. :) -- Derek From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 02:48:22 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Well, I don't know why you say that, but you're right. It's crashed. Or > at least I'm pretty sure its crashed. It doesn't boot when I turn the > machine on. I assume since it was internal that no boot floppy was > required? This owner's manual I found is pretty good; it's got some helpful troubleshooting routines in it.. what's happening on your unit? ok r. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 13 03:19:25 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: This Week's Haul Message-ID: This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) I've hauled all this stuff home this week, even though I wasn't really looking for stuff (just lucky!): IBM PCjr (no power supply) Timex/Sinclair 1000 TS-1016 RAM cartridge TS-2040 Printer (no power supply) Dynalogic Hyperion VIC-1906 'Alien' game cartridge for VIC-20 'Tennis' cart for CoCo, with box and docs Carts for the Atari 2600 (yes, I know it's not a computer): Grand Prix, Gyruss, Jungle Hunt, Keystone Kapers, Mega Force, Skiing, Sky Jinks, Sorcerer, Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Vanguard, Zaxxon. All from the same Salvation Army store I cursed a few weeks back for tossing out all their computer junk. Well, they keep doing it, but I'll take back my curses because I understand why they'd do such heinous things. With the way stuff has been pouring in in the past couple of months, they must get innundated with this stuff! I have a feeling that if I visited every day or two, instead of every week or two, I'd be hauling away a lot more stuff. I'm still pissed off about the potential Wang monitor tossing, but these folks are clueless about what's worth keeping. Anyway, some notes about the stuff mentioned above... The Dynalogic Hyperion isn't in nearly as good shape as the last one I hauled out of the very same store. This one is _very_ yellowed, like it's been sitting directly in the sun for a few years. Which is probably why someone installed a wire mesh in front of the display. I figure it must've been an anti-glare measure, though it's still quite shiny so maybe it was just to ease the fears of a radiation-scared employee. Anyway, whoever installed the mesh cracked chunks of the case off here and there. They also neglected to replace several screws. The internal screws they left out would've been hard to put back, though, with that mesh in front of the display. Anyway, the front panel is kind of loose. At least the ports are all labeled on this Hyperion, so I'll have to revise the poor guesses (ahem) on my web page. :) Also, there aren't any knock-out panels on this one. I did notice that there are two EPROMs in the machine. I'm definitely going to have to get an EPROMmer of some sort. One of the EPROMs in this Hyperion is soldered directly to the PCB, though, which makes things difficult. (I haven't checked the other Hyperion.) This 'new' Hyperion has some 'display issues'. :) The display on the monitor isn't square, and it jumps inward and back out frequently. Something I found interesting about the Hyperion is that the cover comes off identically to that of an old Macintosh. Undo the screws under the handle, pop the rest of the case from the front face, and pull the case off. I was scared to try popping the case on the other Hyperion, but this busted up one just begged to be looked into. On to the TS-1000. Or at least, what I assume to be a TS-1000. The label is missing, as are three of its four rubber feet, and some gummy tape had been affixed to its top. Anyway, it's got "Timex Computer Corporation" printed on its underside, and it has 2K of RAM (verified with a PRINT PEEK 16389). The motherboard says "ZX81" on it. The Sinclair ZX81 was the first computer I really wanted to buy. (Note that this is VERY different from wanting to OWN - I could actually almost afford a ZX81, I definitely could NOT afford the Northstar Advantage in one of the local shopping centres ;) ). So finally getting my hands on one is pretty special. And I was even introduced to its innards right away, because the damn thing had dead keys on the keyboard. :) It just turned out to be cracked plastic contact strip thingies. I just trimmed the contacts with scissors and shoved them back into the sockets. Hopefully I won't have to do that again or I'll run out of slack. :) It's kind of neat that I can actually SEE how the keyboard is wired, without opening the keyboard. :) The big metal ground thingy on the bottom of the board also broke off at one end. Bad solder job, I guess. :) I'm just using my Atari 2600 power supply at the moment, because the ZX81 supply wasn't there. Man is this thing slow! :) Up until now the (unexpanded) TI-99/4A was my slowest, crappiest system, but the Sinclair thing beats it for that title so easily it's not funny! But it's got nostalgic value the TI will never have for me. And besides, TIs are like earwigs around here. The Salvation Army has put at least 50 in the landfill that I know about. But this is the first Sinclair machine to turn up. The RAM cartridge has a broken, wobbly connector, and bent pins, and I can't get it to work reliably. The printer doesn't have a power supply (anyone know the specs?) or the roll of toiled paper, so I don't know if it works yet. I also don't know if the PCjr works. The external transformer was missing. I got the better keyboard with the thing, too, instead of the original button keyboard. I actually have the Tech Ref for the PCjr sitting around in a box somewhere, so it'll be cool to go poking around in it as soon as I know how. I haven't tested the VIC or CoCo carts yet, but the 2600 carts all work with the exception of Jungle Hunt, which I think just has dirty contacts. It's an Atari cartridge, though, so the contacts are 'protected' and I haven't bothered to find something to stick in those slots yet. Other recent acquisitions include an IBM-PC (5150) with 64-256K motherboard (damn!), an Atari 400 with several books, magazines, and cartridges, and some cool toys for my Amigas. The collecting has been pretty good this summer. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 13 03:28:34 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Also, I have a Profile harddisk that alledgedly goes with the unit. > >Without documentation, I see no place that indicates a hard disk should > >be connected there on the Lisa. But the Lisa has one parallel port and > >an expansion board with two more parallel ports. Does it connect to one > >of these? If so, what cable is appropriate? (No cable) And to what > >should it be connected? > > I hope someone remembers this, it's goes in one of the parallel ports on > the expansion card, it will ask you which one when you boot. The problem > is, there is some sort of trick about the cable IIRC, the thing is, I don't > remember what it is :^( Might this cabling 'trick' apply to the Apple III as well? And if so, does anyone know what's special about the cable? That might be the source of my Profile problems with my III. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 03:36:39 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: This Week's Haul In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) [...] > Dynalogic Hyperion You'll be happy to know we almost never see those Canadian Hyperion things in California. They're pretty cool. I think mine is the only DOS 1.x machine I've got. -- Doug From kevan at heydon.org Thu Aug 13 05:16:20 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Bletchley Park (Was Re: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > But I still think they're making the situation worse for themselves. Their > aloofness put me off ("We only come every two weeks -- we have other lives to > lead, you know" someone told me in a somewhat frosty tone). The CCS is doing > all kinds of projects, but very slowly. The Park's exhibits are beautiful A couple of times I have responded to calls for volunteers in Ressurection (The CCS journal) but I have got no reply on either occasion. It wasn't as if I was asking to be involved with the 'glamour' work rather it was for tidying/cataloging the stuff they have. Also from what I have heard from other people they are rather aloof. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Aug 13 06:22:34 1998 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: LISA: Ah nuts... Message-ID: >> Might this cabling 'trick' apply to the Apple III as well? >> >> And if so, does anyone know what's special about the cable? That might be >> the source of my Profile problems with my III. Doug, as I said, there's definitely nothing amazing about the cables for the ///, at least not with the controller cards I have (I don't know if anyone ever made any third-party controller boards?). They're either straight through or complete crossover, but there's no odd connections or anything. cheers Jules From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 14:34:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you think?) That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about 100 Altairs in the next few days. -- Doug From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 14:42:12 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808130741.AAA01438@saul9.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379520686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Tyop?] That was an intentional joke. [HACTRN] HACTRN was the top-level DDT when ITS was under timesharing. The TOP-TOP leved DDT could be considered the NTSDDT, which was what the person at the console got when ITS went belly up. Or it could be DSKDMP. The source doesn't say explicitly, and I've heard both stories. Some people elected to use a disk-enabled NTSDDT as the bootloader, and some used DSKDMP. (I think, I could be wrong). [What baud rate?] It's the telephone company. The line "disappears" for gaps of 1-30 seconds at random. The carrier isn't dropped, but no data gets across. They're having trouble with the COs around here. I'm in Peoria, IL, and I was told by a lineman whos my stepdad's friend that the problem is that when Bell System was split up years ago, the documents saying how the COs in the are talked to each other were lost. So, stuff that was considered minor were way overloaded, and stuff that was thought to be major was actually unplugged, and the like. They're trying to re-route things to establish some order, but having little/no luck. Lowering the baud rate wouldn't help. But I do have an accoustic coupler and a printing terminal... (I think the coupler's dead though...) ------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 14:44:20 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold for $4213. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x price differential. Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Altair prices $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you think?) That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about 100 Altairs in the next few days. -- Doug From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 13 15:01:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 13, 98 02:34:26 pm Message-ID: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/f2f1f082/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 14:56:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 I've just been dumbstruck dead. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 15:02:55 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379520686.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 13, 98 12:42:12 pm Message-ID: <199808132002.NAA13848@saul1.u.washington.edu> > [HACTRN] > HACTRN was the top-level DDT when ITS was under timesharing. > The TOP-TOP leved DDT could be considered the NTSDDT, which was what > the person at the console got when ITS went belly up. Or it could be > DSKDMP. The source doesn't say explicitly, and I've heard both stories. > Some people elected to use a disk-enabled NTSDDT as the bootloader, and > some used DSKDMP. (I think, I could be wrong). Whoa, you're over my head here. I guess that when timesharing is not enabled, you get a DDT at the console only? Perhaps a single process only? (A bit like single-user mode in UNIX?) And what does NTS stand for? I assume that DSKDMP does different things than DDT. Right? What's a non-disk-enabled NTSDDT like? ITS is such an idiomatic system. Is your machine actually running iTS? Can I get an account? I know of XKLETEN but that runs TOPS-10 (which is nice, but more conventional -- it even shares a few features with VMS. I think the syntax for file names and extensions is the same.) I got the MACSYMA manual through Interlibrary Loan... I enjoyed the description of using ITS. IIRC the process monitor will say your programs are running, but also crawling, walking, or flying, depending on system speed. > [What baud rate?] > > It's the telephone company. The line "disappears" for gaps of 1-30 seconds That's horrible. Do voice calls do the same thing? I'd think people would scream at them to fix this problem. I guess our phone service is pretty good by comparison. Most of the complaints about US West seem to be about prices and lack of customer service. -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:05:19 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132004.QAA15597@charity.harvard.net> When I saw the final bid on that altair, i nearly peed myself. Jim, if yer listening, I'm sending ya a check!!!! (not for $4K tho) Four IMSAI switch paddles and a SOL Keyboard kit :) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:44 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Altair prices > > > Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed > that his only sold > for $4213. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned > simultaneously, with a 3x > price differential. > > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd > never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > > Kai > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair prices > > > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, > what do you > think?) > > That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats > the last Apple > 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get > solicitations for about > 100 Altairs in the next few days. > > -- Doug > From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 15:04:34 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold > for $4213. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > > What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x > price differential. A couple of differences: Jim's was listed first (by just a few minutes), so it closed first. When the billionaires lost out on Jim's to a surprise last-minute bidder, it was desparation time to get the second and last Altair -- a $12000 bid came at the very last minute. The other difference is that Jim listed his in the CPU category, which to most people means chips rather than systems, so his may have been slightly less visible. > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). But you'll trade, right? I still have that Tandy VIS :-) -- Doug From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:09:31 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132009.QAA16674@charity.harvard.net> Just think how I feel. My main point of interest *IS* S-100 systems... And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. Tony > > > > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > > (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy > sells, what do you > > think?) > > > > That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats > the last Apple > > 1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get > solicitations for about > > 100 Altairs in the next few days. > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow > who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? > > I can't fault anyone for selling an Altair (especially at > these prices), > but it still sits uneasy with me. I've never sought out an Altair > specifically, because S100 has never been my focus of interest, but > now I know for sure I'll never be able to get one if I developed a > fancy for them. That's rather a downer. > > Oh well, I've still got my Imsai. It may not have been first, but > it has cooler blinkey lights. > > (Note to interested sellers: About the only thing I'd be willing > to pay $1000 for is an original table-top "straight" PDP-8 in working > condition. Hey, look at me, I'm a sucker! Now if only I could find > someone with the bait, I'd snap at it :) > > -Seth > -- > "It looks just like a Telefunken U47! Seth J. Morabito > You'll love it." - Frank Zappa sethm@loomcom.com > From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 13 15:10:03 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132010.NAA20147@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple >1 sale I know of. What have the Apple I's been going for? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 15:23:48 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C53E@NT486> > $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: I've just been dumbstruck dead. Did you look at the card list? It has one of the old Ithaca Audio CPU cards in it. The early IA Z80 cards were a poor second choice to a Cromemco card, but probably a step up from the original TDL Z80 card (that was the first Z80 CPU out). I had one of the IA cards, threw it away when they switched to Ithaca Intersystems and started making real class boxes and boards, got one of the XPU cards instead. Those were nice, 20 bit memory addressing with an MMU, very stable, it's what I use in my IMSAI now. And not even original MITS memory to go with it! Now if it had a working (!) 4K dynamic MITS RAM board I would be impressed. That was a truly rare commodity, because of design flaws the memory usually didn't (remember, that is). Jack Peacock From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 15:15:03 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: WHAT Apple I's ? :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Tom Owad [mailto:tomowad@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:10 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Altair prices >That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple >1 sale I know of. What have the Apple I's been going for? -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 15:25:39 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C53F@NT486> > And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. You got a good deal. Even new they were $429 for the kit, with 8080 CPU and static RAM card. Jack Peacock From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 15:21:47 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 13, 98 01:01:43 pm Message-ID: <199808132021.NAA29815@saul1.u.washington.edu> > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across the country to a new buyer. As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) -- Derek From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 17:23:59 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <7418@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132030.PAA05367@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> I took a look at this myself; I had to go see for myself. People, I've gotta tell you, this is way past the merely crazy-- this is total, unbridled, runaway *insanity* ! What is *our* hobby comming to? Whats next? Celebs pooling their money for the original source listing of AppleBASIC? (Complete with annotations by Bill Himself, sealed in an argon-filled case?!?!) This is becomming worse than those damned BeanieBabies (tm). Oy, I think I need a stiff drink now . . . Jeff At 04:05 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >When I saw the final bid on that altair, i nearly peed myself. > >Jim, if yer listening, I'm sending ya a check!!!! >(not for $4K tho) > >Four IMSAI switch paddles and a SOL Keyboard kit :) > >Tony > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kai Kaltenbach [mailto:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:44 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: RE: Altair prices >> >> >> Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed >> that his only sold >> for $4213. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=24405966 >> >> What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned >> simultaneously, with a 3x >> price differential. >> >> Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd >> never sell them >> (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). >> >> Kai From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 15:33:45 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132037.QAA21613@charity.harvard.net> > > And I thought I was getting fleeced paying $300 for my IMSAI. > > You got a good deal. Even new they were $429 for the kit, > with 8080 CPU > and static RAM card. > Jack Peacock > Well, as mentioned before, I didn't get the RAM card (Still looking for one) but I did get the PIO card and an Icom 8" dual disk system for an extra $25. Tony From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 15:37:01 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808132002.NAA13848@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379530665.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [NTS?] Non-Timesharing. When the system was booted (As far I can know..) you loaded the bootstrap from a paper tape (KA10, maybe KL?) or from the disk (KS10). Then you got either NTSDDT or DSKDMP, depending on how you were set up. Then you told DSKDMP or NTSDDT to load .;@ ITS and start it. This brought the system to timesharing. NTSDDT was completely different from the HACTRN, and it's not documented. A few of the commands were the same. [Do I run ITS?] I wish :) bony is actually a Linux box, with a creatively abused copy of telnetd. It's a PWORD clone and doesn't work correctly, I'm writing a new version of it using the original source that should behave like the real one. I am trying to mutilate ITS so as to make an x86 clone of it, but I don't know what I'm doing. So it's going nowhere. ------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 15:39:26 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132021.NAA29815@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > > or is it simply an investment? > > It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer > collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had > verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover > letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across > the country to a new buyer. > > I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ > have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. > I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. If you're interested in actually playing with one, the schematics for the Apple 1 are readily available with a little searching. You can just re-create your own. In fact, I'd imagine you could make a pretty lucrative business making and selling Apple 1 reproductions (as well as other early classics). S-100 parts are readily available as well, and again there are schematics out there if you put a little work into searching them out. If you want to actually play with your own S-100 box, building the chassis, power supply and backplane is relatively easy. You would then need to search out just the CPU, I/O and RAM boards, which would be considerably easier than finding a complete S-100 system at this point (it would seem, although S-100 boxes can still be found if you're not simply lusting after an Altair or IMSAI). People make re-creations of old cars all the time, so the parallels of that hobby to this one should extend into that realm as well. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 15:47:06 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! http://www.lne.com/lemay/ OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else to spend his money on C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge software company D) A museum curator E) An antique dealer/speculator F) A 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing Kai -----Original Message----- From: D. Peschel [mailto:dpeschel@u.washington.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:22 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Altair prices > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, > or is it simply an investment? I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across the country to a new buyer. As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) -- Derek From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 17:51:02 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: uVax Question In-Reply-To: <7418@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132057.PAA05530@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Guys: I realize that this question has probly been raised before, but I'll ask, as I cannot seem to find the answer. I have a lead on a MicroVAX 3100-30, that I can get for what I *think* is a pretty reasonable price. But before I dive into this, I need to know: 1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a VaxServer? 2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc? 3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal? 4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc? 5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure, I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere for $50). 6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money? Jeff From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Aug 13 16:05:35 1998 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199808132105.QAA19060@trailingedge.com> But did she actually buy it? She placed her bid 6 mins before the close of the auction when the high bid was only $3000. Right at the end of the action, someone else placed a $12000 bid forcing her bid to $12100 and the reserve still hadn't been met! I got a kick out of the seller's comments, he claims the chance of ever finding another is 0 and there has never been one on EBay for as long as he has been buying and selling there. He must not check out the auctions there very closely. It sounds like he didn't expect anyone to actually make the reserve. Claimed he put a high one on it because he wanted to see what the current "market value" was. The best part was when he said he would throw in a free SWTPC emulator for Windows95. Guess after spending so much on an Altair, you couldn't afford the pick up an SWTPC as well. :-) On 13 Aug 98, at 13:47, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! > > http://www.lne.com/lemay/ > > OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you > think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? > > A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager > B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else > to spend his money on C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge > software company D) A museum curator E) An antique dealer/speculator F) A > 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing > > Kai ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 16:09:17 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 13, 98 01:47:06 pm Message-ID: <199808132109.OAA14961@saul1.u.washington.edu> > OK, pop quiz before you look at this site. Which of the following did you > think just paid $12,000 for an Altair? > > A) A 60-year-old ex-Byte Shop manager > B) A retired aerospace engineer and ham radio operator with nothing else to > spend his money on > C) A Ferrari-driving vested-option veteran of a huge software company > D) A museum curator > E) An antique dealer/speculator > F) A 30-year-old female author with a nose piercing I haven't seen _this_ URL either. But I started reading your choices and was surprised when there was no G) All of the above (they are the same person) at the end! Well, I guess A) and F) are incompatible, but the others could conceivably go together. -- Derek From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 13 16:13:15 1998 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <13379530665.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 13, 98 01:37:01 pm Message-ID: <199808132113.OAA23423@saul1.u.washington.edu> > When the system was booted (As far I can know..) you loaded the bootstrap > from a paper tape (KA10, maybe KL?) or from the disk (KS10). Then you got > either NTSDDT or DSKDMP, depending on how you were set up. > Then you told DSKDMP or NTSDDT to load .;@ ITS and start it. > This brought the system to timesharing. > NTSDDT was completely different from the HACTRN, and it's not documented. > A few of the commands were the same. Oh. That clarifies things. (Though God knows what maneuvers are going on in memory while all this is happening.) So there really is no comparison between a non-timesharing system and a timesharing system, I guess. (That is, the "single-user mode" analogy is wrong.) Does .;@ have any meaning or is it just a bunch of rarely-typed characters? > [Do I run ITS?] > I wish :) bony is actually a Linux box, with a creatively abused copy of > telnetd. It's a PWORD clone and doesn't work correctly, I'm writing a new > version of it using the original source that should behave like the real one. I thought you had an account on a -10 or a -10 clone. What about that? > I am trying to mutilate ITS so as to make an x86 clone of it, but I don't > know what I'm doing. So it's going nowhere. Aren't the sources available? (I forget the FTP site.) -- Derek From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Thu Aug 13 16:16:15 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132118.RAA27402@charity.harvard.net> Full S-100 chassis are actually pretty easy to find. I have an IMSAI, and am planning on purchasing a Cromemco Z2-D, a Processor Tech SOL is on the way, as is a NorthStar Horizon (an Advantage! too). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 4:39 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair prices > > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > > I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely > > > depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the > fellow who put in > > > the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent > value to him, > > > or is it simply an investment? > > > > It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this > aspect of computer > > collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers > said that he had > > verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete > with original cover > > letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it > was shipped across > > the country to a new buyer. > > > > I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting > things to use them/ > > have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at > odds with this goal. > > I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. > > If you're interested in actually playing with one, the > schematics for the > Apple 1 are readily available with a little searching. You can just > re-create your own. In fact, I'd imagine you could make a pretty > lucrative business making and selling Apple 1 reproductions > (as well as > other early classics). > > S-100 parts are readily available as well, and again there > are schematics > out there if you put a little work into searching them out. > If you want > to actually play with your own S-100 box, building the chassis, power > supply and backplane is relatively easy. You would then need > to search > out just the CPU, I/O and RAM boards, which would be > considerably easier > than finding a complete S-100 system at this point (it would seem, > although S-100 boxes can still be found if you're not simply > lusting after > an Altair or IMSAI). > > People make re-creations of old cars all the time, so the parallels of > that hobby to this one should extend into that realm as well. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 16:16:36 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Here is the purchaser. NOT what I would have expected! > > http://www.lne.com/lemay/ A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Thu Aug 13 16:30:06 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C540@NT486> >But did she actually buy it? She placed her bid 6 mins before the close of the auction when the high bid was only $3000. Right at the end of the action, someone else placed a $12000 bid forcing her bid to $12100 and the reserve still hadn't been met! In casinos it is a common practice to have employees sit at card tables and play conservatively to fill out the card table till enough regular players are seated. This is so the games (usually poker) can continue if there aren't enough real players to make it interesting. This is a legal practice (here in Nevada) but their playing is limited and they must leave the table as soon as enough players are there. They are called "shills". There is also a type of shill in auctions. They are usually friends of the auctioneer and are briefed beforehand to make a minimum bid on certain items, to ensure the item does not go for too low a price. The auctioneer doesn't sell to the shill, just puts it back for another day. In this case the legality is dubious. Caveat Emptor, it appears shills are at work on E-bay (I'm shocked, shocked to discover price rigging!) Jack Peacock From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Aug 13 16:20:41 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Tyop In-Reply-To: <199808132113.OAA23423@saul1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13379538614.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [.;@ have any meaning?] Yeah, it's in the . directory (; is a directory seperator, like /) and the file is called "@ ITS". ITS filenames has 2 parts, 6 characters long. [Had an account on a 10?] Yeah. Toad.xkl.com is XKL's PDP-10 clone. I also have an account on xkleten.paulallen.com, which is a similar machine. Both run TOPS-20. I don't have an account into a real PDP-10, but I've telnnetted to a TOPS-20 KL-10 and asked for the SYSTAT once... (Was bootstrap.org). [Are the ITS sources available?] Not anymore. The AI and MC dumps had all the turist homedirs in it, and that's a whole lot of private stuff. I just got really lucky. It used to be available, but the turists set up a loud wailing and they were taken offline. ------- From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 16:25:53 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: | -----Original Message----- | From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] | Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM | To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers | Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) | | A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) | | -- Doug You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) Kai Are you single? -In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home page. Will you go out with me? -No. Will you send me dirty email? -No. Will you post nude pictures of yourself? -No. Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? -How could you guess? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 12:58:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: PERQ (was: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: <199808130152.SAA02620@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 12, 98 06:52:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/e38736d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 12:47:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Mark Tapley" at Aug 11, 98 11:37:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 698 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/9374de5f/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 16:26:50 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132010.NAA20147@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tom Owad wrote: > What have the Apple I's been going for? One was listed on Haggle a while back for $17K, and it went for $12K a bit later. Here are some Altair and IMSAI prices that I remember from the last few months (from memory): Altairs: $ 200 $ 500 $ 1500 $ 1800 $ 1900 $ 2100 $ 4213 $12100 IMSAIs: $ 250 $ 250 $ 300 $ 500 $ 600 $ 1000 $ 2524 Bottom line: it pays to shop around :-) -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 13:22:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808130532.WAA13032@saul5.u.washington.edu> from "D. Peschel" at Aug 12, 98 10:32:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/d2ebf9cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 13:27:39 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Bletchley Park (Was Re: Apple III & Profile) In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Aug 13, 98 03:16:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/b99304dc/attachment.ksh From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Aug 13 18:32:30 1998 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <7425@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> At 01:21 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely >> depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in >> the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him, >> or is it simply an investment? > >I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved. > >It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer >collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had >verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover >letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across >the country to a new buyer. I'll tell you why it's depressing. We had such a good thing going-- the whole world was (is) dominated by the PeeCee, nobody but us *real* hobbyists cared about the interesting "old" stuff. It was a *real* hobby-- anyone with a *couple* (meaning two) of dollars could get into the act. ALl you needed to have some truly interesting stuff was a voltmeter, a terminal, and just a little luck. Well, kiddies, the party's over. "Investment Grade" antique technology is here to stay, it seems. Well I'll tell you what, guys. They can *have* it. I'll have nothing more to do with "Investment Grade" computers. One experience was enough to show me the level of perversion that can be attained with this mindset. >As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to >have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too >warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just >change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but not >to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this >being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a >cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register. Yeah, it wasn't that great of a machine, even in it's own time (although, of course, quite historic). But such was the lot of the hobbyist at the time. >I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/ >have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal. >I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair. It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will produce a productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will produce a bad outcome. This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids withoout alot of money can enjoy the 'rush' of putting an old system together and running it (something *I* couldn't do when I was a kid). But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the 'traditional' hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably lost. Hopefully, we are still a decade or so away from the complete commercialization of our hobby. I can't bear the though of the classic computer going the way of the baseball card, and the comic book . . . >There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument, >given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :) And what I'm saying is that you don't need them to enjoy the hobby. In fact, I'm convinced now that having *anything* that's considered 'Investment Grade' would *preclude* you from experiencing the enjoyment factor. Our Pre-PC heritage is so vast and diverse, there literally must be something (else) out there for everyobody. Jeff *FOR SALE* Slightly used SOAPBOX. Used only once to annoy computer geeks online. From cgregory at lrbcg.com Thu Aug 13 16:40:47 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: <011301bdc703$0c000880$a927a2ce@cgregory> I can't vouch for the young lady personally, but she is a fairly decent author. I have one (maybe two) of her HTML books around here somewhere. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 6:25 PM Subject: RE: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) > >| -----Original Message----- >| From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] >| Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM >| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >| Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) >| >| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) >| >| -- Doug > >You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) > >Kai > > > >Are you single? >-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home >page. > >Will you go out with me? >-No. > >Will you send me dirty email? >-No. > >Will you post nude pictures of yourself? >-No. > >Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? >-How could you guess? From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 13 16:54:47 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808132154.AA08878@world.std.com> < And not even original MITS memory to go with it! Now if it had a < working (!) 4K dynamic MITS RAM board I would be impressed. That was a < truly rare commodity, because of design flaws the memory usually didn't < (remember, that is). < Jack Peacock So true. A working one was memorable. At one point I have 3 ea of the 88mcd-4k and 88s4k and neither were much fun save for mine were modified to use UPD410 (static ram) that had the same pinout as the 4060. Those actually worked! Allison From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:00:55 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > >Kai Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my Altairs. (dontcha just love a good mystery?) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:02:44 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813150244.03376950@agora.rdrop.com> At 01:01 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >> >> $12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 >> >> (and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >> think?) < snippage> > >(Note to interested sellers: About the only thing I'd be willing >to pay $1000 for is an original table-top "straight" PDP-8 in working >condition. Hey, look at me, I'm a sucker! Now if only I could find >someone with the bait, I'd snap at it :) Good luck... I had an offer out for quite a while to trade an Altair straight across for a "straight" 8, and no one took me up on it... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 13 17:14:21 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Mystery (RE: Altair prices) Message-ID: Hmm, I guess that means either: 1) You sold a friend's Altair on their behalf; or 2) You bid on it yourself? By the way, ya still owe me that ROM board, ya big lug! :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:01 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Altair prices At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > >Kai Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my Altairs. (dontcha just love a good mystery?) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 17:25:11 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices (part deux) In-Reply-To: <199808132154.AA08878@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813152511.03384100@agora.rdrop.com> ...and just to show that they have not run out of money quite yet, bidding on a a single later model ('B' series styling) 8 inch Altair floppy disk unit is now up to $790.00 with over a day left to go before closing... Yes, insanity rules indeed! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From van at wired.com Thu Aug 13 17:47:21 1998 From: van at wired.com (Van Burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First of all, she's _not_ a babe. I would be interested in knowing if she follows through with the sale...that price is REDICULOUSLY inflated, even for ebay. I think someone should email the seller. Anyone? van >Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices) >| >| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-) >| >| -- Doug > >You obviously didn't read her FAQ :) > >Kai > > > >Are you single? >-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home >page. > >Will you go out with me? >-No. > >Will you send me dirty email? >-No. > >Will you post nude pictures of yourself? >-No. > >Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying? >-How could you guess? ........................................................................ @ / / Shift Lever (D)/ \===================================== @ ================ Floor Plan === BNL |- - -Phase Shifter- - - -|--/ Get Wired! - ------------]=[]@----------------------@ 415.276.4979 Trans- ] ]](A) Toll Free 1.888.208.6655 (B) ? (C) Rear Connection mission ]]]]]]]]]]]]Driveshaft]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ] ]] 71 ------------] web superstation of the stars... van burnham http://www.futuraworld.com production manager wired 520 third street fourth floor san francisco ca 94107 united states ........................................................................ for immediate emergency wireless access send email to van-page@wired.com van@wired.com van@futuraworld.com pingpong@spy.net vanburnham@aol.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Aug 13 18:13:53 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: uVax Question In-Reply-To: <199808132057.PAA05530@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 13, 98 03:51:02 pm Message-ID: <199808132313.QAA00911@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/17af21e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 16:55:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132001.NAA00456@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 13, 98 01:01:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/d4a68f76/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:23:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: I can (somewhat) understand an Apple 1 auctioning for $10K+, because it is purported that only 200 or so exist. But how many thousands of Altairs were sold either in kit or assembled form? That's where it just doesn't make sense that people would be willing to pay such ridiculous prices for an old computer, be it collectable or whatever. It just boils down to plain ignorance. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:32:50 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will > produce a productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will > produce a bad outcome. This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids > withoout alot of money can enjoy the 'rush' of putting an old system > together and running it (something *I* couldn't do when I was a kid). > > But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the > 'traditional' hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably > lost. Hopefully, we are still a decade or so away from the complete > commercialization of our hobby. I can't bear the though of the classic > computer going the way of the baseball card, and the comic book . . . We spoke on this topic last year, and I and a couple others prognosticated that the then somehwat tame trend towards escalating prices for older computers would reach the levels we are seeing today. It was just a matter of how fast, and it basically came upon us as fast as I expected it would. That's why I've been busy loading my garage up with stuff. I knew well enough to get the goods while the getting's good. Once I've got some spare time, I can sit back and enjoy tinkering with my (cheaply accumulated) collection while the newly-interested collectors are scratching and clawing for that latest "RARE TimexSinclair 1000!!!" on eBay. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 18:37:51 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote: > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). > > Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my > Altairs. > > (dontcha just love a good mystery?) Aha! So what was your commission? ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 13 18:50:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <199808132139.QAA05820@cliff.mis.ifrsys.com> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Aug 13, 98 04:32:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4079 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/f4ced469/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Aug 13 19:21:41 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19980813150055.0336ec50@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813172141.034f3500@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:37 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, the thread continued: > >> >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >> >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). >> >> Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my >> Altairs. >> >> (dontcha just love a good mystery?) > >Aha! So what was your commission? ;) > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Better than I expected since it cleared the reserve (by a fair bit)... It should pay for my trip down to VCF II. B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 13 19:44:39 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology References: <13379378978.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <35D38877.7F713551@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Uses MSmail?] > > I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface > than use Outlook. > In fact, I normally do. > > HELO myhostname > MAIL FROM: me > RCPT TO: you > DATA > xyzzy > . > QUIT > > ------- That requires a direct doorway through the firewall. Merrill does not grant me that as a contractor, nor does it give such access willingly to long-term (we're talking decades, folks) employees. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Aug 13 19:51:28 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: I agree totally. it's starting to happen around here also. thankfully, ive got enough stuff already, but am always looking for more. several weeks ago, someone posted to the list about a coleco adam for sale in nc. i emailed the person who said ~10 people had bidded on it and she was taking the highest offer. i was rather surprised as i thought i'd be able to get it for $10 or so since no one else would be interested in it. I think that the well known "rare" computers like lisae, altairs, and so forth will inflate in price first, and then lessor known computers will not for a time, which means stock up now while prices are still cheap. In a message dated 98-08-13 19:35:05 EDT, Sam Ismail put forth: << We spoke on this topic last year, and I and a couple others prognosticated that the then somehwat tame trend towards escalating prices for older computers would reach the levels we are seeing today. It was just a matter of how fast, and it basically came upon us as fast as I expected it would. That's why I've been busy loading my garage up with stuff. I knew well enough to get the goods while the getting's good. Once I've got some spare time, I can sit back and enjoy tinkering with my (cheaply accumulated) collection while the newly-interested collectors are scratching and clawing for that latest "RARE TimexSinclair 1000!!!" on eBay. >> From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Aug 13 19:42:42 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980813173008.75a71b84@ricochet.net> At 03:04 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them > (and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). Well, if I had an Altair, I think I'd probably put it up for auction -- I desparately need a new roof, and I can think of a lot of more important reasons to sell something I wouldn't normally think of selling. Can't fault him, but I can be envious! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From tomowad at earthlink.net Thu Aug 13 20:35:14 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? Message-ID: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I acquired a PDP-8/L not too long ago, and in discussion with the original owner he advised I have a fire extinguisher on hand when I power it up. That concerns me, as I'd rather not burn up a PDP-8/L (or the house). What can I do to ensure the -8/L wont catch fire (or do anything else equally bad) when I turn it on? I don't have a very good knowledge of electronics, but I can certainly open it up and examine boards. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From kroma at worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 13 21:05:21 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? Message-ID: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Check out this article at ZDNet http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm l From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Aug 13 21:18:45 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, kroma wrote: > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm Another business plan that sounds like it was conjured up during an acid trip. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From yowza at yowza.com Thu Aug 13 21:20:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, kroma wrote: > > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm > l Fascinating; it's a 486 machine that has absolutely nothing to do with a C64. Why would anybody in their right mind try to build that association for their product? -- Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:13:10 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13618@gate.usaor.net> The hard drive or the computer? If you're talking about the HD, than I know what you mean. If you mean the computer, just go to the elementary school that I used to go to -- They had 30 of 'em. The one that I have now (and my other two 1000's) were given to me by my high school -free... -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:22 AM > > > I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K > > RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not > > being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to > > find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - > > and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare > > XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > That may be very hard to find! > - don > From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:17:25 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13637@gate.usaor.net> > I'm impressed but try again! I have asolutely no problems in all 4 > corner of any worlds even on 386sx 25 bandaid notebook I have. > (sloooowwwwly). What is your toshiba laptop? > Well, it's a VERY crappy 100MHz Pentium w/ 8 meg of RAM. The HD has blown 4 times already. Half the time the CD-ROM and floppy don't work, and Resume never worked. The screen shattered about 3 months ago (while I was using it). The modem may be part of the problem. It's a IBM 14.4 made for Win 3.1 and OS/2, using software for a totally different modem, because it's the only driver that works. > No excess frill programs, extras to foul up your installation > attempts? > -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:32:02 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> > My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or > Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much > room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work -- > especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't > try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I > thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!) It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 PS>> just forget about your hat. From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Aug 14 21:32:37 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808140257.WAA13671@gate.usaor.net> Well..... ---------- > From: Daniel A. Seagraves > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:43 AM > > [Uses MSmail?] > > I'd rather just get a telnet client and talk straight to the SMTP interface > than use Outlook. > In fact, I normally do. > > HELO myhostname > MAIL FROM: me > RCPT TO: you > DATA > xyzzy > . > QUIT > > ------- From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Aug 13 22:00:48 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980813230041.006c93c8@netpath.net> I think I can wait ten years for this one, maybe even less if it hits the market like I think it will. ;) At 09:20 PM 8/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote: >Fascinating; it's a 486 machine that has absolutely nothing to do with a >C64. Why would anybody in their right mind try to build that association >for their product? - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From red at bears.org Thu Aug 13 22:10:47 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a toenail clipping... > PS>> just forget about your hat. PS>> try Windows 3.11 "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" r. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 13 22:14:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: uVax Question Message-ID: <199808140314.AA24963@world.std.com> < 1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a < VaxServer? Everything or nothing depending on model. generally the vaxserver/microvax have no or minimal video. Vaxstations are the higher end video console. < 2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software < available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard < to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc? Popular. the rest I cant answer as they are as unPC as they come. the disks are SCSI and ram is simms(maybe oddball though). Generally VMS runs in 4mb but 8mb or more is desireable, with 12mb it sings and 16mb is the max. < 3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal? Varies from a serial terminal to high end color graphics. <4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc? Test 50, show device, show mem at the >>> prompt. < 5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure, < I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere < for $50). NOT $500! free to 150(loaded). The monitors are worth more than the systems in some cases. I'll be selling a few Vaxserver3100 M10es 12meg ram and RZ24l Disk(245mb) for $60 at MIT FLEA with VMS 5.5 (nolicense but useable for single user and the DECUS license). This model has no video and uses a regular terminal (I'm selling VT320s for those that may need). < 6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money? depends on what you know of VAXen and the operating systems that run on them. (VMS, Ultrix (some not all models), NetBSD netboot, hopefully scsi support soon). Allison From jpero at pop.cgocable.net Thu Aug 13 18:18:35 1998 From: jpero at pop.cgocable.net (jpero@pop.cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology In-Reply-To: References: <199808140257.WAA13667@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <199808140255.WAA04213@commercial.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:10:47 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "R. Stricklin (kjaeros)" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. > > Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small > disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a > toenail clipping... > > > PS>> just forget about your hat. > > PS>> try Windows 3.11 > > "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" > r. Guys... think in Jason's shoes... Maybe that Jason does not have floppy drive or broken or a no cd for win 3.x installation disk...? Jason D. email: jpero@cgocable.net Pero, Jason D. From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Aug 13 23:40:07 1998 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair insanity Message-ID: <199808140437.XAA17287@garcon.laidbak.com> This is good. If I'm lucky and things keep going like they are, my Apple collection, which at original list prices is worth around $60k, should soon be worth twice that. And, my PS/2 Model 80, which originally listed for $10k, will bring that price again. All we can hope for is that this craze will go the way of collectible sports cars -- after a short period of total insanity in which people were willing to pay $90k OVER LIST PRICE just to get on a waiting list for an Acura NSX or a Viper, the bottom fell out and nobody wanted to buy them from the morons who paid double price for 'em. I just hope that Jag XKE's come down to reality sometime again so I can own one. And, I'd actually drive the damn thing instead of putting it up on blocks under a cover in a locked, climate-controlled garage........... Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 00:13:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> from "kroma" at Aug 13, 98 10:05:21 pm Message-ID: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980813/5de1b269/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 00:34:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > That's really sick. The only thing it has in common with the Commodore 64 > is the letter 'C'. And even that's sketchy at best. > > What's next? An Apple ][e Web.whozamajigit based on a Cyrix CPU? Actually, Tiger Electronics made an Apple //e clone last year and released it under the guise of the Tiger Learning Computer. It was an Apple //e with a ROM drive emulating slot 6, drive 1. It had a mouse, a small LCD screen, Appleoft BASIC in ROM, had an AppleWorks carthridge, and I believe a port for an external disk drive. It sold for about $250 and the target market was kids 4-8 or something like that. It was sort of like those chinsy toy computers you see in the toy departments but it actually was a real live computer based on the Apple //e. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 01:19:43 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> It is likely that I am the only person on this list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until two years ago. I will now probably be asked to leave but before that happens I would like to share my Altair "experiences" with you. This will be long winded so if you are only interested in "sound-bite" length messages hit your back button now. This little story cannot be told in a couple of sentences. I no longer remember how I learned of the existence of the Altair 8800 but it was about a year and a half ago. I learned about the history of it and it's association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could be a big deal so I started looking for them. Almost immediately I discovered a source. I bought eight of them for from $100 to $300 apiece in about two months time. At that time the price edged up to $3-500 so I said to hell with it and stopped buying. I then put it all on the back burner for six months. Then, earlier this year, someone offered to buy one from me for $800. I thought this was a sucker price so gladly let it go. Two weeks later, that last batch of Altairs and drives went on Ebay. The computers sold for roughly $2K apiece. As a lark, I immediately listed a MITS serial board and modem board on Ebay. At the time I was so ignorant about what I had that I listed them separately. I did not even know that together they are a cassette interface. One brought $250 and the other $200. I could not believe it. $450! Like everyone on this list, I was somewhat shocked that the computers had actually sold for $2K. When I first discovered this list (six months ago) I posted asking for your opinions of the value of an Altair 8800. As always, you all were very responsive. I vividly remember Jim Willing stating that, in his opinion, the 8800 was worth $250. So I concluded that the $2000 Ebay bids must be the "real" sucker price. I offered the buyer of my boards one of my 8800's for $2K. Sold it. Then a week later sold him two more for $1500 each. I now had payed for every Altair item I had ever bought and had a tidy profit as well. I was ecstatic. Then, needless to say, I started to actively buy them again. Went back to my one (and only) source and bought four more 8800's, one 8800a, two 8800b's, one turnkey b, one Attache, seven Altair floppy drives, two MITS hard drives, controllers, four Imsai's, three Sol 20's, every iminaginable software, and enough docs and literature to fill a four drawer filing cabinet. And I stumbled onto what may be the only surviving example of a still unassembled Altair 8800 kit. Up until last week I had been able to have it all shipped to me but the last load was too much to ship so I drove almost 2000 miles round trip to retrieve it. When I returned Friday a friend informed me that two Altairs had been listed the day before on Ebay. (I still do not understand the amazing coincidence of two separate sellers listing Altair's within 35 minutes of each other since it had been four months since the last ones were listed). It occurred to me that since the Altair's were about to be hyped again that I should participate. Since I had just come home with five Altair floppy drives, I decided that was the logical thing to sell. The auction ends today (Friday). My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able to buy any more. I now think of the six months I passed on them because I would have had to pay $400. If I had kept buying during that time I would have a great many more of them now. But I feel very fortunate to have the ones I do. Why am I telling you all of this? It is because I have been engaged in buying and selling collectibles for 25 years. I was in on the beginnings of many other of these kinds of phenomena (jukeboxes, antique radio, Coca-Cola, the list is long). But I have never had so much fun as I have had with this. There is no doubt that my involvement with it is totally different from that of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that (based on much of what I have read here) that many will find it deplorable that someone like me is a subscriber. But the personal computer is now as important as the electric lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing the birth of that. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 01:39:14 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> At 23:19 13-08-98 PDT, you wrote: >It is likely that I am the only person on this >list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles >dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until I can only speak for myself, not the list. I'm truly sorry that you seem to have no interest in actually doing something with the equipment you buy. I firmly believe that it is your loss that you likely don't know one end of a soldering iron or wire-wrap tool from the other. I'm equally sorry that your only interest in the gear seems to be how much it can bring in, income-wise. Those who buy Altairs, or whatever other "collectible" machine you happen to be selling, at the prices you're asking, are the real "suckers" in this field. This list, to me, is about what one can do with older computer hardware BESIDES sell it. Specifically, about finding ways to make it useful and to educate others about the rich history of the field. While this may include mention of the machine's financial value, I've never believed that money should be the primary focus of 'classic' computing as a hobby. What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the list, it will not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope that you choose to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where computer hardware is concerned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 01:46:53 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that > (based on much of what I have read here) that many > will find it deplorable that someone like me is a > subscriber. As far as I'm concerned, not at all. I've always maintained that there is no one right reason for collecting computers. If you can make money off of them, so be it. What I'm concerned about is that people would actually be willing to pay the prices we've been seeing. I just can't believe this "source" you found. In light of recent events, it sounds like you found the equivalent of the richest vein of gold during the gold rush. Some people have ALL the luck ;) > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric > lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples > will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first > light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing > the birth of that. At least Edison's light bulb worked well :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 01:49:07 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bruce Lane wrote: > What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the > list, it will not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope > that you choose to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where > computer hardware is concerned. To each his own, Bruce. ;) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 01:56:19 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > It is likely that I am the only person on this > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > dealer. I have no problem with this. The more diverse this list, the better. I am aware of others who are also on the list that share the profit motive, so I believe you're not alone. > I no longer remember how I learned of the existence of the Altair 8800 > but it was about a year and a half ago. I learned about the history of > it and it's association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's > business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could be a big > deal so I started looking for them. Obviously, the Altair's popularity has benefited tremendously by Microsoft's success. The PDP-10 was probably even more influential, and I remember when Microsoft did most of their development on VAXen, but I doubt these machines will ever have the same collector appeal as the Altair. > And I stumbled onto what may be the only surviving example of a still > unassembled Altair 8800 kit. I think you're the third person this year I know of that has found the sole surviving Altair kit :-) > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric lamp was > 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples will be regarded with > the same reverance as Edison's first light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one > of the people witnessing the birth of that. But the Altair wasn't the first personal computer, so maybe the Ford Model-T would be a better analogy. The Altair's place in history is really about Microsoft and the early hobbiest movement, not about computers in general. Affordable desktop computers have been around since the 60's (and even the late 50's if you include analog machines like the EC-1 at $199). The main area in which I think for-profit dealers can contribute would be in a grading system and price guides, something that is interesting to all collectors, even if they have no plans to sell. -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 02:15:51 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <199808140513.WAA01506@squeep.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Seth J. Morabito wrote: > > Check out this article at ZDNet > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm > > l > > That's really sick. The only thing it has in common with the Commodore 64 > is the letter 'C'. And even that's sketchy at best. For something more insteresting, that DOES have something to do with the Commodore 64, check out: http://www.sidstation.com Hopefully they only pull SIDs from C64s with dead PLAs. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 02:25:13 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:55 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something just struck me (ouch). If Microsoft's success has had this effect on Altair prices, what will happen when Linux takes over and Microsoft is out of business? I want to get in early. Does anybody which brand of 386 machine Linus first used? -- Doug From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 02:31:07 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 8 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > I cleaned out the mouse, but I haven't done anything else yet. Tony gave > > Did you just remove the ball and clean the rollers, or did you take off > the cover and blow the dirt out of the optoswitches? Blew the dirt out of the optoswitches, as well as I could. I didn't feel like braking the little wheels while trying to remove them, so I didn't. > > me some info on how the critters work, but I haven't had time to look into > > it yet. I still don't know if it's the mouse or the Mac with the fault. > > One good thing - if it is the mac, then it's one of 2 standard chips - > the 8530 SCC or the 6522 VIA. Neither are hard to obtain. Great! I dread opening up the Mac, though, so I hope it's the mouse. Only the ROMs are socketed, and there's that nasty CRT and power supply just waiting to kill me. > > One useful thing would be the Mac's mouse port pinout, though, so that I > > at least know what pins to look at. And the Apple //c's, too. > > OK, here's the Mac (128/512/Plus) pinout > > 1 Ground > 2 +5V > 3 Ground > 4 X2 (VIA PB4) > 5 X1 (SCC DCDA) > 6 N/C > 7 Switch (VIA PB3) > 8 Y2 (VIA PB5) > 9 Y1 (SCC DCDB) Excellent! Thanks. Maybe I'll wire up a spare Amiga mouse first to see what happens. :) According to the "Introduction to Amiga" book I got with my A1000, the mouse pinouts on the Amiga are as follows: 1 Mouse Vertical 2 Mouse Horizontal 3 Vertical Quadrature 4 Horizontal Quadrature 5 Mouse Button 2 6 Mouse Button 1 7 +5V (125 mA) 8 GND 9 Mouse Button 3 So I guess Mouse Vertical on the Amiga mouse would go to Y1 on the Mac, Vertical Quadrature to Y2, etc? > I'd start by looking at the appropriate pins on the mouse connector with > a logic probe. THAT's the item I forgot to shop for today (logic probe). I finally got the replacement NiCd battery for my Amiga 3000, and a fresh roll of rosin core solder, but I felt like I should be looking for something else while I was spooking around electronics shops. Of course, I have no idea what a logic probe costs... but I found instructions on how to build a simple one in an old Sinclair book I was looking at last night. > If one of the 'Y' signals is not changing state, then look > in the mouse. If they both are, then trace the signals through the RFI > filters (the yellow DIP packages near the back of the logic board) to the > pins on the chips. If they don't get that far, time to replace the RFI > filter. If they do, then check/replace the VIA or SCC chips. Makes sense, and doesn't sound too hairy. Once I get a logic probe. > As I don't have a real Apple mouse, I can't be more specific, alas. It seems a lot of people have dead or missing Apple mouses. > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 14 03:12:36 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980810091654.007ff740@netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 08:10 AM 8/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you slide the expansion cover open (top hidden section) you can see what's > >been added. The memory card is usuallly on the bottom, the serial will be > > I slid the cover back, nothing there, which is what I assumed, since I saw > no ports sticking out the back. This reminds me. I've got a Tandy 1000EX with a 1200baud modem card in it, but I've not yet figured out how to get the modem to work. I tried it with Commo (?) and a couple of other programs that I scrounged from BBSes. I played with IRQ settings and stuff, and eventually got SOME kind of response from the modem, but never managed to get it to dial out. One interesting thing to note about the modem is that it has to be the top card in the stack. It doesn't have pins on it to pass the buss through to another card. Another interesting thing is that my machine's RF shielding seems to have been largely composed of metalicized cardboard, which was roughly ripped open over the expansion bus. (Ugly) > Funny, even the CoCo series had a serial port on the back. Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed seeing the port. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 03:29:28 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 13, 98 11:19:43 pm Message-ID: <199808140829.BAA01836@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/1a25dcb3/attachment.ksh From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 03:29:47 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814082947.20729.qmail@hotmail.com> > >I think you're the third person this year I know of that has found the >sole surviving Altair kit :-) I think what may have happened, Doug, is that over the course of the year I have mentioned it in passing to some of the people who read this list. I am not known to you folks so I am guessing that the same unassembled kit was brought to your attention by others. If that is not the case and other kits have been found I would sincerely like to hear from those who may be in possession of them. I have some unanswered questions about the example I found and would like to compare it to any others. > >But the Altair wasn't the first personal computer, so maybe the Ford >Model-T would be a better analogy. The Altair's place in history is >really about Microsoft and the early hobbiest movement, not about >computers in general. Affordable desktop computers have been around since >the 60's (and even the late 50's if you include analog machines like the >EC-1 at $199). I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough numbers to become a collectible. The Mark 8 and Scelbi, for example, suffer from extreme rarity. They are now virtually non existent. So will never attract the widespread interest of the Altair. numbers > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 04:27:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814082947.20729.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the > 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the > start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough numbers > to become a collectible. The Mark 8 and Scelbi, for example, suffer from > extreme rarity. They are now virtually non existent. So will never > attract the widespread interest of the Altair. numbers An an amateur quasi-historian, I think the misperception about the Altair's significance is a shame. There are computers that were produced in similar numbers that are much more interesting, and even more fun to play with. The Altair and the Apple 1 both started at about the same time, but the Apple went on to have a much greater impact on "personal" interactive computing in the form of the Apple ][. IBM's PC was a response to the Apple ][, and that set the stage for the way things have been ever since. The only real influence of the Altair was that Wozniak held it in contempt and modeled his machine more on the desktop models he saw at HP, like the HP 9830A with built-in BASIC from 1972. So, in my quasi-historian opinion, the Altair can safely be ignored by collectors, or treated as an interesting freak, since the only influence it had that survives today is the choice of an Intel CPU. However, the influence of an interactive desktop machine like the HP 9830 can still be felt very strongly. The 9830 would get my vote as the most collectible early machine that is fairly accessible. BTW, a parallel that I find very interesting is that in 1975, IBM came out with their first "personal" computer, the IBM 5100. This machine was a direct response to the HP 9830, just as their IBM 5150 was a direct response to the Apple ][. If the Altair had never existed, things would probably be just the same as they are today. The Altair is practically out of the historical loop :-) -- Doug From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 05:16:41 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980814061508.006d1334@netpath.net> At 04:12 AM 8/14/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote: >Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing >this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed >seeing the port. :) You mean I'm not crazy for not seeing this "invisible port" everyone was talking about? :) BTW, I never did return to the flea market to retreive that 1000 HX. It was raining, I had the baby with me, it was bad karma all around. Maybe next year... - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 05:16:43 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I don't think the PDP-8 is much of a fire hazard, but some old computer equipment can be. This is from an old Usenet article I just bumped into: << Those are the New Old disks. The OLD disks used hydraulically driven pistons (oil) to move the heads across the drive. The pump was driven by the same Very Large motor (probably one horse or more) which spun the disk. They held a LOT of data though: IBM 2311's held somewhere close to 20 megabytes, if memory serves. (Memory may not be serving today, and my manuals are all at home). Besides having the nasty habit of leaking oil all over the floor, both these and the linear motor voice coil machines DID tend to walk around a lot. Some of those drives (Memorex or IBM, can't remember which) also liked to catch fire. >> -- Doug From kevan at heydon.org Fri Aug 14 06:50:46 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The main area in which I think for-profit dealers can contribute would be > in a grading system and price guides, something that is interesting to all > collectors, even if they have no plans to sell. I agree. Insurance companies like to put value on things, and currently this is very difficult for me to do with my collection at the moment. There are a few items which I might be able to take a guess at, but for the majority there is no 'market value' -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 15 08:05:48 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808141335.JAA21798@gate.usaor.net> Why don't we do everyone a real favor and just drop this whole thing. I'm getting a 7.1GB drive next week, anyway. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 11:10 PM > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jason Willgruber wrote: > > > It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's > > ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE > > 3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG. > > Ah, you just want to complain. Imagine running Windows 95 on such a small > disk and expecting to have room for anything larger than three gnats and a > toenail clipping... > > > PS>> just forget about your hat. > > PS>> try Windows 3.11 > > "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real OS" > r. > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 09:47:05 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? In-Reply-To: <008001bdc727$fea4b120$5189440c@kroma-i> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814094705.00c0b450@pc> At 10:05 PM 8/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Check out this article at ZDNet >http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.htm Emulators are doing quite well these days. I can run an Amiga emulator on my dual PPro 200 system at speeds quite comparable to the original machines. The C-64 emulators are great, too. The problem comes in the rights to the software, both in the OS and the applications/games you intend to run. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 09:48:57 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814094857.00cd1220@pc> At 11:19 PM 8/13/98 PDT, Bob Wood wrote: >It is likely that I am the only person on this >list who is a total "outsider". As a guy with a few rooms of old computers, I'll step forward to shake your hand and congratulate you. Foo on those who think you're evil for driving up prices - obviously, your buyers didn't think the price was outrageous, and you made them happy. Scroungers will always find stuff for next-to-nothing. I don't know how anyone can assume that your buyers "won't use their computer, and are just collecting them." Sour grapes. A lot of packrats do the same thing - they're holding on to them because they have high personal value. If nothing else, higher prices may same a few more old machines from the dusty attics and Dumpsters. That's the first step in preservation. - John From cdrmool at interlog.com Fri Aug 14 09:53:04 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? colan From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 14 09:44:42 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Doug Yowza's message of Fri, 14 Aug 1998 04:27:45 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > An an amateur quasi-historian, I think the misperception about the > Altair's significance is a shame. There are computers that were produced > in similar numbers that are much more interesting, and even more fun to > play with. Here's what is significant about MITS and the Altair 8800: It arrived on the scene with a price that firmly fixed in lots of folks' heads the idea that "I can own a computer." And it was obviously a useful computer that could be expanded to do real work just like the real computer in the fishbowl at the office, not something that could only be appreciated through the lights and switches on its front panel. And MITS' hardware was flaky enough that other folks felt encouraged to build stuff for its bus, and even build other systems using its bus. That made the Altair bus a de facto standard of its day, and one that stuck around for the next few days too. > The Altair and the Apple 1 both started at about the same time, but the > Apple went on to have a much greater impact on "personal" interactive > computing in the form of the Apple ][. IBM's PC was a response to the > Apple ][, and that set the stage for the way things have been ever since. I'd venture to say that Altair buyers saw the Altair as having the potential to be this sort of "interactive" machine too. The base configuration wasn't, but it was clear that you could buy more memory, a current-loop interface, a Teletype, and run BASIC. And that was the goal a lot of folks had then. That put you in the big leagues with the minis that you might be using at work or in school, and put the user in control of the computer. That said, I think that if MITS hadn't done it with the Altair, someone else would have done it soon enough. -Frank McConnell From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 10:15:26 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 10:52:24 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Sorry 'bout that... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814085224.00e51440@mail.jps.net> OK... that's the -last- time I try to write something coherent when it's the night after a 90-degree day, near midnight, with a temperature still in the high 70's. Bob, I must apologize to both you and the list. You caught the brunt of one of my foulest moods to date. It's all to easy to forget that if the seller and buyer are both happy with the price, fine. A good deal was struck. However it's done, keeping vintage machines out of the hands of scrappers is always a worthy goal. I may not always agree about pricing, but that's me. I'll see a bunch of you at VCF 2.0. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Aug 14 11:46:28 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair sale/use Message-ID: Being the custodian of an Altair, an IMSAI system, a clutch of NorthStars, etc., etc.... I am of the opinion that any activity which tends to *preserve* the items of our interest is intrinsically a Good Thing. I am a user and a collector of old systems, and I empathasize strongly with the "Collect to Use" folks on this list. BUT: having spent many years in the electronic surplus business, I also know that side of things. Bob is making a good living in collectible computers just now... 16 hrs a day 7 days a week (my kind of hours!!).... he has discovered and turned over many classic systems... which would be *where* today if not for his efforts?? I understand the frustration when dilletantes invade and a collectible 'fad' develops... it does, unfortunately, prevent some of us from having the hardware we want. I wish that wasn't so, but it *is* the free market. There are, however, many aspects of this hobby... and there are some who collect to use, some who 'warehouse', some who collect to trade. To me, it all means that fewer Altairs will be lost forever.... My $.02, anyway. Cheers John PS: My Altair came from a big rack of 70's-era aerospace test systems... I first saw it in one of the buildings of the surplus company I worked for from 78 - 82. At that time, it was just one of those wierd old S-100 machines... and I couldn't afford the IMSAI I wanted... I ended up with a Cromemco Z2H. It was not until I joined this list that I remembered about the Altair.. so I went back to the old place, got the keys to the room.. and there it was, dusty and forgotten. I paid my ex-boss $50 for it, and the rescue was done. No, there aren't any more... trust me, I *looked* ;} J From cgregory at lrbcg.com Fri Aug 14 12:19:23 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as other systems, I think). Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > >colan > From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 12:21:01 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will happily parcel out what I don't need. There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and sorting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 12:29:13 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980814132913.00814180@netpath.net> GRiD Systems, Inc. GRiDCase 3, circa 1985 had GRiD-DOS 2.11 ROMs. At 01:19 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as >other systems, I think). > >Cliff Gregory >cgregory@lrbcg.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >To: Cgregory >Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM >Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > >> >>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? >> >> >>colan >> > > From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Aug 14 13:06:43 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 14, 98 10:21:01 am Message-ID: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 541 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/4f30dd02/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 13:32:03 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 Message-ID: <199808141832.AA16278@world.std.com> < Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been < able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen. I still have disks with the original distribution markings (long since reformatted). Allison From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 14 13:37:34 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Cliff Gregory wrote: > Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as > other systems, I think). > > Cliff Gregory > cgregory@lrbcg.com True! It was also packaged with the early Kaypro PCs as I recall. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Cgregory > Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM > Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > > > > >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been > >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > > > > >colan > > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 14 13:50:07 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes References: Message-ID: <35D486DE.B3A91A12@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I > didn't have a blown powersupply , instead I had managed to short the > power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just > fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other > boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^) > > However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the > backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC > had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and > remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and > BA123 backplanes. Jerome Fine replies: Has anyone helped in this request? I believe that the following is true: BA23: First 3 slots are ABCD Next 5 slots are ABAB or Q22 In short, you can place only one board in the first 3 slots. If the board is a dual, you loose the other half. The last five slots are able to use either a quad or 2 duals. The bus grant loop is serpentine. 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 4C, 5C, 5A, 6A, 6C, 7C, 7A, 8A, 8C. 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> -> 5 <- <- 6 -> -> 7 <- <- 8 -> -> The BA123 is identical EXCEPT that slots 1,2 3,4 are all ABCD. If you want the loop diagram for the Ba123, please respond. Which operating system do you use on the PDP-11? If it is RT-11, I would like to keep in touch. I notice that you have not responded to my e-mail of Monday. If there is no further response, I will just assume that you are not very interested in RT-11. For anyone else (Allison??) who is interested in RT-11 software, a response would be appreciated. I think I understand that the hardware is the most important aspect to most of the individuals on this list. I am one of the exceptions in that the software is the most important with the hardware being a close second until a few months ago when it became possible to run PDP-11 programs on a PC, in particular RT-11 programs and the operating system plus all modules. One day I even booted a TU-58 from 1978 with a tape cartridge holding files from a 1978 version of the RT-11 operation system (V3.0B). While the TU-58 was connected to a COM port on the PC which was running an emulator program which allowed the PC to look like a PDP-11 to the TU-58, it was still quite a thrill to be able to boot the 20 year old TU-58 with 20 year old software. Is there anyone else also interested in RT-11 software? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (Sources not always required) From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 14:03:38 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 14 Aug 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Here's what is significant about MITS and the Altair 8800: > > It arrived on the scene with a price that firmly fixed in lots of > folks' heads the idea that "I can own a computer." And it was > obviously a useful computer that could be expanded to do real work > just like the real computer in the fishbowl at the office, not > something that could only be appreciated through the lights and > switches on its front panel. Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the elements that got us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is also a strong survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as the machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would be better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) If they are looking for a machine that heavily influenced the virtually extinct hobbiest movement and figured prominently in the corporate history of Microsoft, then they're right on the mark with the Altair 8800. -- Doug From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Aug 14 13:31:03 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is to seriously understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of dominance (which is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the S100) is an incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer field. True, it doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the dominate architecture on teh market. >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the elements that got >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is also a strong >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as the >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would be >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the collectors who wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their systems. I don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do really want a NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the hobbiest movement should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view is that the Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a computer, and so even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about one. (And yes, I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with the Lisa - people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored them in great numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh would have been as successful. First you have the great implementation of a grand concept that you can never own, and then you follow it with an affordable version. Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the potential for personal computers to move into new markets. True, this was a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before the Altair, but the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my opinion, anyway. As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collectors recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could finally get my NeXT. :) Adam. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 14 14:46:42 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13379783649.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Snip this.] I fell very truly sorry for you. In a computer you have such an awesome and powerful device, which can educate you in more than a few ways. Newer equipment to a lesser degree, it's all black-boxes and corporate secrets now, but older gear is perfect for finding out how things work. It's a shame to have such a wonderful machine, and not know anything other than you could sucker someone out of money for it. Not knowing (Or caring!) what you can make a machine that everyone considers dead and gone do. If money were all I cared for, I could empty my PDP-11s out of SSI's basement and get a few $$$, but I'd like to find out how they work and teach myself something long-term than make a few short-term dollars. ------- From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 14 14:46:39 1998 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue References: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <35D4941F.18837785@idirect.com> >Bruce Lane wrote: > I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's > surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will > happily parcel out what I don't need. > > There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some > DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and > sorting. Jerome Fine replies: Thank you for the advance notice. I doubt I would want to pay for the shipping, but if the local company or you were close enough, this might be interesting. Can you please specify where the local company or you (or both) are located - which city? I am in Toronto and anything more than a day (even a very long day) of round trip is likely not worthwhile. My suggestion - even if I am not involved - is to save all the board modules that you can and leave the power supplies and the backplane to the end. In the middle might come hard disk drives (up to 5 1/4") followed by removable packs that might contain any software of interest. Interface kits for serial lines (DLV11-J, DZV11 and DHV11) would also be useful and are relatively small. For very small systems, the DSD-880 boxes are very useful. Most have an 8" floppy beside the 8" hard drive which is 3 * RL02 (non removable of course) and also restricted (from what I remember) for use in a 1/4 MByte memory system unless you are running TSX-PLUS or have a modified RT-11 driver. The used of a DSD 880 in a VT103 was very useful in that there was only 1 dual module for both the hard drive and the floppy which also contained a BOOT ROM. Combine that controller with a dual 11/23, a DLV11-J (4 serial ports), and 1/4 MByte of memory and you had a minimum system. For very little more money (today - not back then), you can substitute an 11/73, 4 MBytes of memory and add a DHV11 for 8 more serial ports. Of course, you would have to rewire the backplane to allow the extra 4 address lines. Allison, would you have any interest in this stuff. Also, Megan! ALSO: TO ANY ONE WHO HAS A PDP-8? A business friend of mine had a requirement for a model with a 50 Hertz power supply for an overseas site. Anyone?? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict Year 2000 Solutions for Legacy RT-11 Applications (sources not always required) From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 15:00:57 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Adam Jenkins wrote: > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collectors > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The PC is now ubiquitous and has had a profound effect on society. So, let's say you're an alien from another planet (I hope I'm not giving away any secrets here), and you see these ubiquitous PCs, and you ask to see their mother. Bob brings you an Altair 8800 from 1975. I bring you an HP 9830A from 1972. You look at the machines, the dates, and you sit down and use them both. And then you vaporize Bob :-) Sure, terminal-based CP/M systems were deployed for several years concurrently with interactive desktop Apple ][ systems, but so were mini-computers and other types of machines. The point is that S-100 and CP/M died because it basically just brought cheap mini-computers to businesses. That wasn't a revolution, that was just a continuation of the dominant paradigm of the 60's and 70's. In my opinion, and in my personal experience, the revolution was due to affordable desktop machines with memory-mapped displays and hardwired keyboards, and the Altair wasn't a big contributor to that mindset. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 15:17:19 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808142017.AA21219@world.std.com> >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was a >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The it that day 10,000 was a lot of systems! < >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which < >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. S100 would be dominent through the mid 80s. S100 system were being built with 80386s and ran faster than the PCs with same. I have a Compupro 8086/8088 10mhz that was faster than any IBM PC hardware in 1982. CP/M left a major mark on MS-dos being the source point! Also the idea of a BIOS is a CP/M concept. < >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as < >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would < >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the < >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) To many slighly older PDP-8 and HPs were the early for runners for the small size and proximate affordability. < money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collecto < recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly < uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You < could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. It's significance was that it was real and well exposed by Popular Electronics. The Mark-8 was less real in that it wasn't available as a complete kit or well presented. There are predecessor machines to both. If we want the first Microcomputer why not the intel MCS-8? You could buy one complete before either Mark-8 or Altair by many years. As to extoling the virtues, altair was in teh right place at the right time. Technically it was a DOG. The IMSAI was a vastly superior machine. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 14 15:17:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Q-Bus Backplanes Message-ID: <199808142017.AA21434@world.std.com> < For anyone else (Allison??) who is interested in RT-11 Been running RT-11 in various flavors since '78. < One day I even booted a TU-58 from 1978 with < a tape cartridge holding files from a 1978 version I still have two systems with the TU58 and real PDP-11 hardware. one is a PDT-11/130 and the other a BA11va shoebox with tu58. < TU-58, it was still quite a thrill to be able to boot < the 20 year old TU-58 with 20 year old software. and a 20 year old system! Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 14 14:11:44 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980814141144.4af73f9a@intellistar.net> At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >think?) I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 14 14:51:37 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980814145137.2f27aad8@intellistar.net> At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold >for $4213. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966 > >What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x >price differential. That's one reason that I think that that auction was a hoax. > >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either). I'll bet that for $60,500 (5 x $12,100), you'd give it some serious thought! Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 14 15:55:28 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814155528.00c806e0@pc> Has anyone confirmed with Laura Lemay that she actually paid or intends to pay $12,000 for an Altair, or could this be a hoax perpetrated on her? I sent an e-mail asking for a confirmation, and have heard nothing... This all comes back to my inherent skepticism about online auctions as a useful method of determining "street price." Where's a mechanism for confirmation of the selling price? How can we detect shills? - John From peacock at simconv.com Fri Aug 14 16:15:02 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C541@NT486> Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. Jack Peacock From kyrrin at jps.net Fri Aug 14 16:42:12 1998 From: kyrrin at jps.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814144212.00e579a0@mail.jps.net> At 11:06 14-08-98 -0700, you wrote: >Hello Bruce, > > >Can you tell us where the rescued items will be located? I wouldn't >mind scrounging some 11/23 bits and pieces if they become available. >My 11/23 is diskless (and rackless! pout) right now. I'll be picking up an entire lot from Fluke. They need to get rid of everything all at once, which is why I said there's more than I need. What I'll be doing is bringing the stuff back to Kent and then parceling it out. I'm certain I can come up with at least minimal disk capability (want a DSD-880?) for your 11/23. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Aug 14 17:26:06 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814144212.00e579a0@mail.jps.net> References: <199808141806.LAA02363@squeep.com> <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814152606.007ddcd0@vader.kootenay.net> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it looks like the size of a mini stereo jack From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 17:28:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980814141144.4af73f9a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you > >think?) > > I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the > opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's > insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of them on the market. Or someone may just be that stupid. Two theories. Take your pick. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Aug 14 17:30:34 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C541@NT486> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > Okay, everyone with a spare IMSAI, let's all get together and have a few > "auctions" on e-bay. How about a reserve of $50K, starting bid at $15K, > $1K increments. That's just for a box, cards are extra. I don't love my IMSAI's THAT much. This is worth a shot. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Aug 14 17:50:55 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Anyone know of a decent free BASIC for Unixes? Message-ID: <13379817184.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have bwbasic 2.20, but it leaks memory horribly. This is Digital UNIX, so I can't use Chipmunk. I found another BASIC for Unixes, but it only works on m68000 Unixes, PDP-11s, Pyramids, and VAXen. IS there any other decent BASIC interpreters out there for UNIXes? ------- From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Aug 15 17:55:37 1998 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Power supply NEEDED Message-ID: <199808142301.TAA23378@gate.usaor.net> Hello again, everyone. I'm looking for a power supply for a WANG WLTC laptop. It doesn't necessarily need to be a WANG power supply. Just as long as it's 18V DC, and at least 2 Amps. I'm also looking for manuals for the WANG WLTC: - Installation instructions - Fundamentals Guide - DOS Command Processor Guide - Troubleshooting Guide - Printer Software Administration Guide - BASIC Language Guide Again, they don't need to be originals. They can be copies. As always, ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 12:49:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808140135.SAA22131@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 13, 98 06:35:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1835 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/7cdf9b5f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 13:29:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 13, 98 11:19:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4294 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/c44501a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 13:42:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 13, 98 11:39:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2435 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/b68d33d3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 14:41:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 14, 98 03:31:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3071 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/8176b3c5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 14 14:58:55 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808140829.BAA01836@squeep.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Aug 14, 98 01:29:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980814/16858342/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Aug 14 20:07:23 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 EX in El Paso Message-ID: <19980814184149.3ab71d3c.in@mail.pressstart.com> I'm just forwarding this mail I received. Please respond directly to them. >We have a Tandy 1000EX computer that was given to us >about four years ago and was a great word processor, >game player, etc. at the time. Since then we have >upgraded slightly to a Pentium, 64 M of RAM, etc. >We have no more need for the Tandy, and would like to >know if there is any one that has a hankering for relics, >like your museum or just a personal collector. We have >the printer, complete computer with monitor, and user's >manuals. We also have some software for it. > We would certainly appreciate any help you may be able >to give us in selling the Tandy. We live in El Paso, TX, >and would respond to any inquiries about it. Thank you. >James and Michelle Herrick >jandmherrick@prodigy.net ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 20:32:45 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4E53D.991E1AE4@cnct.com> Doug Yowza wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > > > It is likely that I am the only person on this > > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > > dealer. > > I have no problem with this. The more diverse this list, the better. I > am aware of others who are also on the list that share the profit motive, > so I believe you're not alone. Never knock the profit motive. It's the main reason that most of our systems were manufactured -- admittedly Woz was just trying to build himself a computer as cheap as he could, Jobs was in it for the money. And of course Tandy was strictly for profit -- as a stockholder I understood (having acquired stock as an employee), though I left when they went 100% PC compatible, not wanting to lower my standards -- an obvious bad career choice. I can trust the motives of a man out to make a buck, but somebody who wants "to make the world a better place" I'll keep at arm's length -- Hitler and Stalin had that objective each from their own definition of "better". Idealists are much better at destroying the world than mere wimpy Capitalists. Other than that, within a few weeks I hope to have finally installed a Color Computer 3 and Multi-Pak and HD and floppy controller into the gutted shell of an old Compaq "portable" abandoned this last TCF. The display interface is the hard part, since I haven't found a color tube that fits, and the original tube really doesn't gray-scale well and is on its last legs anyway. (The 8088 motherboard is a wall decoration -- they were too popular to keep for "uniqueness" sake or "collection value"). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From pb0aia at iaehv.nl Fri Aug 14 20:35:07 1998 From: pb0aia at iaehv.nl (Kees Stravers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 Message-ID: <199808150135.DAA21312@IAEhv.nl> On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said: cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came cl>with a PCjr? PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. "In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0] and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr." Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5, Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was the latest version when the book was printed. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 20:42:40 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808141444.HAA29933@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <35D4E790.D83C24E6@cnct.com> Adam Jenkins wrote: > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by being cheap. > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was also > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is to seriously > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of dominance (which > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the S100) is an > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer field. True, it > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > dominate architecture on teh market. Do recall that QDOS was a straightforward CP/M clone and that MS-DOS to at least version 3.0 _documented_ the CP/M compatible system calls in the OS they'd bought. CP/M didn't fizzle. When you use a DOS interface under NT, the command switch character is that which MS-DOS took from CP/M and Kildall took from DEC. -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 20:55:11 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D4EA7F.59B2F8E5@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > It is likely that I am the only person on this > list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until > But the personal computer is now as important as the electric > lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples > will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first > light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing > the birth of that. My sentiments exactly! I have long believed that collecting computers will become as much respected as any other type of collecting, and *that*, by its very nature, implies higher prices are on the way. To me, saving the systems from that great dumpster in the sky is important. We have a great advantage right now in that many of the pioneers are still alive to be able to relate their thoughts and experiences ... during the process where these things are beginning to gain in value. As far this listserver is concerned (I hope you talked about your being asked to leave with tongue in cheek!), this has been one of the most informed and well rounded group of people I have been associated with. To date, I have not found a better resource for information about our "addictions"! From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:00:39 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:56 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4EBC7.C6F5969C@rain.org> Doug Yowza wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > > > I did not mean to suggest that the Altair was the 1st PC or even the > > 1st micro. However, the Altair is perceived at this time to be "the > > start of it all" and it is the one that is available in enough > numbers I don't recall ever hearing what the production numbers were for the various models of the Altair. Anyone know for sure? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:40:00 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Anyone know of a decent free BASIC for Unixes? In-Reply-To: <13379817184.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 14, 98 03:50:55 pm Message-ID: <199808142340.QAA12722@fraser.sfu.ca> I suggest that you check out the UGU site, www.ugu.com. "Unix Guru Universe". Kevin > > I have bwbasic 2.20, but it leaks memory horribly. This is > Digital UNIX, so I can't use Chipmunk. I found another BASIC for Unixes, > but it only works on m68000 Unixes, PDP-11s, Pyramids, and VAXen. > IS there any other decent BASIC interpreters out there for UNIXes? > ------- > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:38:55 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980814152606.007ddcd0@vader.kootenay.net> from "Chris Halarewich" at Aug 14, 98 03:26:06 pm Message-ID: <199808142338.QAA12516@fraser.sfu.ca> You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of modem?? Kevin > > I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a > packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't > say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the > power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it > looks like the size of a mini stereo jack > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 18:30:03 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 14, 98 06:49:31 pm Message-ID: <199808142330.QAA11035@fraser.sfu.ca> > > That concerns me, as I'd rather not burn up a PDP-8/L (or the house). > > What can I do to ensure the -8/L wont catch fire (or do anything else > > equally bad) when I turn it on? I don't have a very good knowledge of > > The standard drill - check the PSU on dummy load - certainly applies > here. Alas I don't know the PDP8/L (I have an 8/e and an 8/a), but I > guess if you either pull all the boards or unplug the backplane power > cables from the PSU, you can power up the PSU on its own and check the > output voltages with a meter. There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help in checking out the supply. The H747 supply was used on the 8/e, the H740 on the 8/f, I'm not sure about the 8/l however. It may be one of these supplies. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From yowza at yowza.com Fri Aug 14 21:07:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4E790.D83C24E6@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Do recall that QDOS was a straightforward CP/M clone and that MS-DOS > to at least version 3.0 _documented_ the CP/M compatible system calls > in the OS they'd bought. CP/M didn't fizzle. I remember the CP/M compatible system calls, but I don't remember any software that used them (perhaps early WordStar?). The thing that allowed the PC to take off was software that consistently bypassed both DOS and the BIOS. That's why every system after the PC had to be PC-compatible, not just MS-DOS compatible, and certainly not CP/M compatible. > When you use a DOS interface under NT, the command switch character is > that which MS-DOS took from CP/M and Kildall took from DEC. To this day, I still suffer from the choice of '/' as a command switch, '\' as a directory separator, and CR/LF as a line terminator. Luckily, ^Z stopped being a problem when new DOS system calls were introduced (IIRC). -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:12:55 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D4EEA7.4F5B36C4@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > gets hot. Actually, I was troubleshooting the 6800 based > MPU boards on Bally pinball machines as early as the late > 70's. Just never had any interests in computers per se. I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball machines/video games (coin ops)? My first pinball machine was acquired in the early 70's just after Atari Pong and Tank made such a splash. As a hobby, I ended up repairing games for a couple friends of mine who had arcades and games out on location. As an extension to that hobby, I had at one time somewhere around 45 arcade games in my garage, back porch, shop, and almost anywhere else I could put them :). No, I did not put them out to make money with, but rather kept them around for the fun of playing and repairing them. Shame I didn't have the foresight to keep a few that already are starting to become collectors items (Pong, Space Wars, BioRhythm, etc.) From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 14 21:20:49 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: Message-ID: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > I am, alas, convinced that high prices have ruined several other > hobbies > (old radios, particularly) that I was once interested in. No flames > for > the people who sell at those prices - that's just good business. But > it's > a pity that I have to look at old radio schematics only, and not the > actual sets in a lot of cases. There have been several comments so far about higher prices reducing the availability of older computers/radios/etc. As a point of discussion, what can be done about it? If the intent is to work on and find out how things work, I don't see *any* difference between an existing older machine, and a new one built from existing schematics. Yes, I do realize that some of the electronics are unavailable easily anymore. From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Fri Aug 14 21:34:42 1998 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Upcoming rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980814102101.00e47100@mail.jps.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 14, 98 10:21:01 am Message-ID: <199808150234.WAA11418@shell.monmouth.com> > > I'll be doing a rescue early next week from a local company that's > surplusing out some old PDP-11's. There's more than I can use, so I will > happily parcel out what I don't need. > > There will be at least one 11/04, possibly one or more 11/23's, and some > DSD-880 boxes. I'll post a list to the group once I get done collecting and > sorting. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > Please keep me in mind... I'm looking for parts to complete vt103 with disk, memory, serial ports and disk controller. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 14 21:39:49 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices References: Message-ID: <35D4F4F5.93974166@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > > > At 02:34 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 > > > > > >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you > > >think?) > > > > I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the > > opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's > > insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! > > Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise > the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of > them on the market. > > Or someone may just be that stupid. > > Two theories. Take your pick. As the old saying goes, never attribute to malice that which may be adequately explained by stupidity. (Unless the government is involved -- malicious stupidity at its best). -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From altair8800 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 21:47:57 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <19980815024758.28153.qmail@hotmail.com> >> >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box: >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570 >> > >> >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you >> >think?) >> >> I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from the >> opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's >> insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE! > >Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise >the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of >them on the market. > >Or someone may just be that stupid. > >Two theories. Take your pick. Before this wild speculation goes any further let me try to sets your minds somewhat at ease. As you would expect it was my natural reflex to offer a computer to the 2nd bidder. I have now had several back and forth emails with him. He is, like yourselves, an avid classic computer collector with 500 pieces including An Apple 1. He has Altairs but not the original 8800. Hi explanation for the wide difference in his bids on the two auctions is that he put great value on the additional boards (the S-100 Hayes modem, a rare CPU, the video cards, etc. etc. etc.) He is willing to pay no more for the straight computer than his bid on Willing's auction. Now I know that most will not agree with his assessment but that is not the point. The point is that he is indeed a legitimate participant I cannot, however, get into the mind of the woman who entered the high bid. After having listed several hundred Ebay items I can guess though. In a word - impulsiveness. I have seen it time and again with my own auctions. In my experience about 15% of my high bidders renig. When I then offer the items to my 2nd bidders they will choose not to accept about 95% of the time. This is nothing new to online auctions (excepting that it is harder to renig in a live auction). Auction bidding is done impulsively and when given an opportunity to change their minds most bidders will choose to do so. So for whatever appeal the Altair has to her she probably got caught up in the last minute frenzy and may have plenty of money to be able to do so with no pain whatsoever. Or, who knows, maybe she was buying it for someone else. There is no way to know unless she chooses to tell us. Maybe someone has been in contact with her and will tell us. Of course there is always the possibility that she was a shill. However, it is highly unlikely, given how the auction ended. Keep in mind that there was no offical transaction here. With the reserve not met no one was committed to buy anything. Much more interesting to me, than the bidders in this auction, was the seller. What must he have been thinking to come up with such a laughably unrealsitic reserve (and we don't know how laughable because we don't know how high it was). I thought I had seen just about every abberation Ebay could offer but I cannot get into his head at all. The bottom line is that this auction in no way contributes to our trying to get a handle on how others now value an Altair. Willing's outcome, however, is a more valid indicator of that. But any auction price is only a contributing factor and should be taken only that way. To answer your other question, Sam, sure I would be glad to reveal how I bought the MITS stuff. But all it would serve to do is piss off others because it is something that every single reader of this list could just as easily have done. Frankly, I remained amazed for the year and a half I had it to myself, that no one figured it out. But if I lay it out I will again be chastised. I will be told that it is materialistic and irrelevant because all that matters is tinkering with the computers. Are you sure you want to hear all that again? Bob > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 14 21:58:33 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808142330.QAA11035@fraser.sfu.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980814195833.006ea5c8@ferrari.sfu.ca> At 04:30 PM 98/08/14 -0700, you wrote: >There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at >http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help >in checking out the supply. The correct URL is http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. The root URL is a searchable database on the Northridge California earthquake from January 1994. Not of much relevance to our hobby... Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Aug 14 22:24:11 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980814232245.006ae1f8@netpath.net> Over 90% of the external modems I have dealt with were 9vdc, 500ma, but there is always an exception, and in this case, that is probably the case. At 04:38 PM 8/14/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: >You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of >modem?? > >Kevin > >> >> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a >> packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't >> say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the >> power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it >> looks like the size of a mini stereo jack >> >> > > >-- >Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD >mcquiggi@sfu.ca > - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 14 22:55:28 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wanted: Macintosh Portable In-Reply-To: <199808080448.AAA14176@gate.usaor.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814225528.006a7908@pop3.concentric.net> A Mac SE or SE/30 would be better for you as the batteries in the portable would give great pain. A working MAC SE should cost you from $5 to $40 and takes up very little space. If you want one let me know by private e-mail. At 12:44 AM 5/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hello everybody. > >I was wondering if anyone out there had an old Mac Portable (the Mac >laptop) that they'd want to sell. I really don't want to pay all that much >for it, and I don't need anything all that fast (I don't know all that much >about Macs), but it needs to run at least System 6.0.5. The main reason >that I'm looking for one, is that my school uses mainly Macs (the only PC's >that they have are a few XT's that you need to turn off the lights to read >the monitors), and I don't have a Mac. Whenever I'm working on a project, >I'm confined to the 40 minutes of classtime to get it done. I'm not >looking for a full-sized Mac, because (1) I don't have the room, and (2), I >sort of need the portability, because It's not very often that I'm at home >before 8:30 or 9:00 PM, and at that time I don't really feel like working >on stuff for school. > >All I'm really asking is that it works, and can run System 6.0.5 (that's >what my school uses). > >As always, >ThAnX in advance, >-- > -Jason >(roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#-1730318 > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Aug 14 23:11:22 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19980814061944.15587.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35eb02b0.1557148571@insight> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:19:43 PDT, you wrote: >My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is >another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able If anybody who feels like I do about some of these old systems found out he was pimping Altairs to someone who sees them only at dollar signs, he's probably at the bottom of a river, with a couple of Packard-Bells chained to his ankles... If you want to start a frenzy over the latest "beanie baby" that was "accidentally" made with three eyes and sucker a bunch of losers, be my guest. It just seems a little mercenary to me for someone to be contributing to the obscene inflation of the price of something that should belong to people who respect it as other than a "collectors item". Now I'm sure this sounds like sour grapes, and maybe to a degree it is, but I feel like the first light bulbs (to use your example) should belong to the family, friends, contemporaries, and kindred spirits of the person responsible for them, and not necessarily to the highest bidder. I've had many discussions with my partner as to the ethics of buying and selling "old" computers. I've never been the sort who gets a good feeling out of "suckering" someone into paying too much for something, or selling it to me for way too little. (Guess that's why I'm not in sales, or the stock market...) I know this sort of discussion took place someplace not long ago - I think it was in the rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup, about old (but still valuable) equipment. If I find a little old lady who has an Altair on her garage sale that was built by her late husband, and it's marked $5, now I have a quandary. Do I a) give her $5, grab the Altair and run, b) tell her "Well shucks, ma'am - you can get $2,000 for that on eBay!", then offer her $200 and hope she appreciates my honesty and sells it to me for that, or c) slam my thumb in a door because it will feel better than a or b? On the other hand, if I find one sitting in an "antique" shop marked "$500", with an owner who is sure it's "valuable" and won't budge on the price, do I a) slam down the $500, grab the computer, and run, later mailing them a copy of the latest eBay auction where an Altair went for $12,000, with a big "smiley" drawn next to it in crayon, b) refuse to deal with the vulture on general principles, or c) tell the little old lady from the garage sale that he has a "thing" for little old ladies, and he loves to be dominated? (*sigh) Well, if I can't have an Altair for something approaching a sane price, maybe a Sol-20. I lost my virginity to a Sol-20... >But the personal computer is now as important as the electric >lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples >will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first >light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing >the birth of that. Nah. The intelligence of most people being what it is these days, they would have just found them in the attic, discovered that they wouldn't screw into their reading lamp, and chucked them in the trash (or given them away to people who knew what they were!) Unless, of course, someone started paying lots of money for them; then, suddenly, they wouldn't *think* of parting with them (for less than $2,000)! -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From desieh at southcom.com.au Fri Aug 14 23:09:25 1998 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie Hay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813233914.00e49800@mail.jps.net> Message-ID: <000001bdc802$7dc51640$c5173ccb@6pac.bfg.net.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 4:39 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > At 23:19 13-08-98 PDT, you wrote: > > >It is likely that I am the only person on this > >list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles > >dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until > > > > I can only speak for myself, not the list. > > I'm truly sorry that you seem to have no interest in actually doing > something with the equipment you buy. I firmly believe that it is > your loss > that you likely don't know one end of a soldering iron or wire-wrap tool > from the other. > > I'm equally sorry that your only interest in the gear seems > to be how much > it can bring in, income-wise. Those who buy Altairs, or whatever other > "collectible" machine you happen to be selling, at the prices you're > asking, are the real "suckers" in this field. > > This list, to me, is about what one can do with older > computer hardware > BESIDES sell it. Specifically, about finding ways to make it useful and to > educate others about the rich history of the field. While this may include > mention of the machine's financial value, I've never believed that money > should be the primary focus of 'classic' computing as a hobby. > > What goes around comes around. If you're asked to leave the > list, it will > not be by me. I'm not that kind of person. I can only hope that you choose > to enrich yourself in ways other than financial where computer hardware is > concerned. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@jps.net) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing > in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > Well I thought that I should chuck my 2 cents in on this interesting topic. I personall think that good luke to you mate. If you can make this money buy selling these computers good luck to you and it seems to have paid off. *Desie* From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Aug 15 00:20:27 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4EEA7.4F5B36C4@rain.org> References: <19980814151527.16323.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980814222027.03682e50@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:12 PM 8/14/98 -0700, MArvin wrote: >I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball >machines/video games (coin ops)? Guilty! Still do!! (witness the core equipped 'Juke on my web page!!!) One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or less, all 'pong' styled) games. Quite radical for the time... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 15 01:19:15 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball >>machines/video games (coin ops)? > >Guilty! Still do!! > >One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone >outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a >video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or less, >all 'pong' styled) games. > >Quite radical for the time... > >-jim Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game collecting hobby is about as close as it can get to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby. It started at roughly the same time and has a very active and fast growing newsgroup . And, as I'm sure you know, all of the innovations and developments put into the coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc. And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price increases just as is happening to computer collecting. Interestingly, though, while game collecting and computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 15 02:56:27 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <35D53F2B.DA8DEFA2@rain.org> Bob Wood wrote: > > Interestingly, though, while game collecting and > computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware > of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't > know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their > newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. At one time, I could have been considered a serious collector, but the *real* problem became one of space. I was in contact with a number of collectors, and ended up pretty much giving them away since they would go to someone who would both appreciate them, and maintain them. BUT, I still have the documentation for at least a hundred games or so. Also, it takes considerably more time to shop out a pin than a computer! From gram at cnct.com Sat Aug 15 03:23:06 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question References: <3.0.32.19980814232245.006ae1f8@netpath.net> Message-ID: <35D5456A.FA687B14@cnct.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > > Over 90% of the external modems I have dealt with were 9vdc, 500ma, but > there is always an exception, and in this case, that is probably the case. Odd. An awful lot of the external modems I've dealt with were 12-24 VAC power supplies. Just about anything by Tandy comes to mind from the bad old days when 1200 bps was considered "fast", but I'm pretty sure the unit I'm presently using (I can't see the power brick from here and I hate unplugging a modem while I'm on-line -- with my ISP there's a 20% chance of a connection in any attempt -- had I mentioned lately a desire to change ISPs?) is getting AC to the unit at a reduced voltage. > > At 04:38 PM 8/14/98 -0700, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > >You need an AC adapter. Anyone know the correct voltage for this model of > >modem?? > > > >Kevin > > > >> > >> I just got a 2400 external modem without a power cord the modem is a > >> packard bell PB2400PLUS anyone know what kind of power cord it takes(dose't > >> say anything in the manual about specs on the power cord) the jack that the > >> power cord goes into looks like a hole with a stem in the middle of it > >> looks like the size of a mini stereo jack -- Ward Griffiths Bill Gates has this situation where the federal government wants him convicted for attempting a monopoly. Has Bill considered responding with a question as to why there's only one Justice Department? From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 04:22:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Julian Richardson wrote: > >> The READY light doesn't go out, it just stops blinking. It stays *on*. I > >> hope I didn't imply otherwise in my original post, else that could be a > >> source for confusion. > >> It makes sense to me that the READY light would stay on when the drive is > >> ready. > > that sounds right to me, too :) But at least it's changing state - I > guess I'd expect it to carry on blinking if there was a fault. (Out of > interest, how long was it blinking for? Seem to remember it used to be > somewhere around 30-40 seconds on my drives) IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the blinking time is shorter. > >> I played with it again, and I CAN get it to run from slot 3. But I have > >> to use the Profile controller board that was originally in slot 4, into > >> slot 3. Only one of the controller cards gets a response from the drive, > >> so I guess one is dead. > > Interesting. My problem was probably that more than one card couldn't be > configured at once then (maybe I should get hold of a copy of prodos > from somewhere and that'll sort things out? I can't imagine the firm > that originally used this machine swapping drives around all the time!) Nor can I. My machine came with the two Profile controllers installed. > >> Unless the cabling is wrong. :) I'm using a straight-through 25-pin > >> cable, and it's 6 feet long. Maybe the Profile doesn't like cables longer > >> than a foot in length or something? Or maybe it's supposed to have > >> different wiring? > > well, I remember the cable didn't have any twists in it - ie. it was > either a full crossover or straight-through. One of my cables is > original, and it's no more than a foot long. Chances are these things > would suffer from interference - try a shorter cable and see if it > helps. I actually DO have a two-foot ribbon cable with the appropriate connectors, surprisingly enough. Looks like time to experiment with that one. :) Can't do it now, though, as it's set up in the hallway in front of my parents' bedroom, and it's rather loud. (It's 5:22am in this time zone as I type this.) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 04:53:16 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: <199808121815.LAA03438@saul4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, D. Peschel wrote: > > > SOS (Sophisticated Operating System - ) is the pre-cursor to ProDOS. > > ^^^^ > > Yeah, I'm not impressed either. ;) > > That may be (I've never seen it). However, I've heard that the file data > structures are exactly the same between SOS and ProDOS. (That is, the format > of directories, volumes, etc. are compatible). ProDOS does have definitions > for many more of the 256 (255?) allowable file types -- SOS defined fewer. I don't know about the file types, but I believe you are correct about filesystem structure. However, I don't run ProDOS on any of my other systems. I had an Apple ][+ clone in my early teens and I used DOS 3.3, and never had a reason to use anything else. I never even ran across a ProDOS disk the whole time I was an Apple user. > So be a little thankful. :) Perhaps the SOS/ProDOS similarity will become useful in future, yes. In fact, that's what makes xferring the disk images I've got, to the III, even possible. If I couldn't use a II to reconstruct the disks for the III, I'd be completely stuck. > > Nope, I've just been using /UTILITIES because that's the only truly > > bootable disk I got with my III. I also seem to have half (?) of Pascal, > > which boots sometimes but not others, but not all the way into Pascal > > because it looks for something on .D2 which I don't have. :/ > > Pascal (for the ][, anyway) consists of four sides: 0, 1, 2, and 3. > Sides 0 and 1 are two sides of the same disk; ditto for sides 2 and 3. > Put side 1 in drive 1 and side 2 in drive 2. Then you should be able to use > the menu system, editor, and the compiler. (Of course, you may be missing one > or more of those sides.) I guess I'm missing two of those sides, but I'm also missing the second drive. It seems to need a disk in .D2 specifically, but I don't *have* a .D2. (With SOS, disk labels start with "/", and device names start with ".".) [re: disk image source] > Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or > somewhere else? Somewhere else. I know how freaked-out Apple users can get about piracy (I used to read comp.sys.apple2) so I'm not naming my source lest s/he gets lynched or mailbombed. > > Does anyone know how ShrinkIt works? I think that's the format of these > > disk images. I'd like to write a ShrinkIt->.dsk image converter, and then > > I can cut out all kinds of messiness. I might even be able to write the > > files directly to disk on my Amiga. > > Shrinkit is an archive program (like PKZIP, gzip, etc.) though it does have > a special mode for compressing entire disks. I think it uses a file format > called NuFX and there is supposedly a compatible C library for UNIX (nfxllib? > nfxtools? something like that). The C library might be interesting. What I really want to know is how it *works*, not how to use it or what it does. I want to be able to write a deShrinkIt program for my Amiga that takes ShrinkIt files and builds valid .dsk images. Currently the only xfer software I have for the Apple ][ only deals in .dsk images. I wrote the software myself in '93 or '94, in order to preserve my Apple ][ software collection from bit rot. It was especially cool later on when I found an Apple emulator that used the same file format and even the same ".dsk" extension, because I already had a large library of disks on file. :) Now I've got an A1020 drive for my Amiga, though, and I was planning on writing a .dsk writer this summer, but I accidentally wound up employed and didn't have the time to do it. I should probably just get in touch with the guy that wrote the Apple disk READer and ask him to make it WRITE as well, though. :) > You know, I just happen to have a disk with Shrinkit on one side and ProTERM > on the other. Perhaps it would save you a lot of time if I sent it to you? > (I have another copy of the same disk, so I can spare a copy. Though it's > been a LONG time since I booted it up, so I don't know what shape it's in.) Thanks for the offer, but that is uneccessary. I can't yet use ProTERM, and ShrinkIt is available on the 'net. I did manage to get it onto a ProDOS disk, but that corrupted on me, so I'll have to do it again. I've still got Apple III disk images on Apple DOS 3.3 disks, though, so some of the transfer work is already done. > -- Derek > dpeschel@u.washington.edu Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From red at bears.org Sat Aug 15 06:44:11 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it > goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the > blinking time is shorter. On powering up the ProFile disk: "The red ready light on the ProFile's front panel will come on for about 2 seconds, go off for about 20 seconds, and then start to flash for about 40 seconds while the drive runs internal tests. When the tests are successfully completed, the light will remain on continuously without flashing. Under some conditions the ProFile may take up to 3 minutes to complete the startup sequence." ok r. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Aug 15 06:47:35 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 Message-ID: <6d8cb36a.35d57558@aol.com> In a message dated 98-08-14 21:36:00 EDT, Kees put forth: << PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. >> I dont understand the issue about the floppy drive "slowed down" AFAIK, its just a regular old 360k drive. I think it may be the same drive as what's on the 5155 machine. It probably has more to do with the lack of DMA on the pcjr rather than anything else. david From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Aug 15 07:03:40 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile Message-ID: <000601bdc844$be6d3000$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> This has been roughly my experience. I have one poor thing that takes about 5 minutes, hey, it is after all, 20 years old. :) My light never goes out that I remember though, but it does blink in faster increments up to the point it stays steady. I have two apple ///'s with profiles that are currently operational, allthough one comes up much faster than the other. I think it waits for the drive to "come up to speed" Bill -----Original Message----- From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Apple III & Profile >On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > >> IIRC, it was more like 140 seconds. :/ That's for cold start, when it >> goes into blinking mode after a command is issued to it, I think the >> blinking time is shorter. > >On powering up the ProFile disk: > >"The red ready light on the ProFile's front panel will come on for about 2 >seconds, go off for about 20 seconds, and then start to flash for about 40 >seconds while the drive runs internal tests. When the tests are >successfully completed, the light will remain on continuously without >flashing. Under some conditions the ProFile may take up to 3 minutes to >complete the startup sequence." > >ok >r. From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 08:29:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808151329.AA07413@world.std.com> >That's why the Altair affair is so disturbing for lots of us. >We've suddenly and quite violently been told that some of the more >interesting and curious junk is now off limits, unless you have a >fairly fat wallet. It's very hard to get used to, and it makes me, >at least, very uncomfortable. Well said... I agree entirely. It makes me really sad and somewhat angry to think that some of this stuff can now only be bought by people with deep pockets -- people who probably don't have any contact with the computer field other than possibly using a PC... people who will probably just have the thing on display, never used, or people who's only interest is waiting for the price to climb yet again so they can make their money back. They essentially closes the door on the hobbyists, without whom the home PC might never have existed. I remember working on helping to build, and then later program one of these machines when I was in college (1974-1978)... I've always wanted to get one for the sake of memories, but that'll never happen now... No, I don't want to see you kicked off the list either, but I can't say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they are about latest acquisitions/sales... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Aug 15 08:41:39 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980815094139.0068dc54@mail.wincom.net> At 10:53 AM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? > > >colan My NEC APC uses MSDOS 2.11, on an 8" floppy. Regards Charlie Fox > > > > From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 08:50:00 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices Message-ID: <199808151350.AA27404@world.std.com> >Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise >the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of >them on the market. > >Or someone may just be that stupid. > >Two theories. Take your pick. What's the old saying? "Never attribute to malice what should be attributed to stupidity?" (Or something like that) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Aug 15 09:09:21 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: adds to collection Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980815090921.006ab868@pop3.concentric.net> Well I still have alot to sort out but here is a short list of finds for this week: 1) Beckman model 999 IC tester have not powered it up yet 2) Two Radius MacII Page Display cards 3) About 30+ different books, spec sheets, and manual 4) 28 game cartridges for the Vic20 5) 4 2600 game cartridges 6) 2 C64 cartridges 7) Various Apple II cards 8) A clone Numeric keypad for the Apple II 9) 2 Vic20 power supplies not tested 10) 1 Plus/4 power supply not tested 11) HES Mon mini assember for use with Vic20 in box with manual 12) Cardram 16k memory expansion cartridge for thr Vic20 13) Radio Shack and other brand computer cassette tapes - new That's all I can list for now as I still have a van loaded with boxes and about 6 boxes of items to sort in the garage. I will update later with anything of importance. Keep Computing!! John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Aug 15 10:50:32 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple III & Profile In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > [re: disk image source] > > Is that the same source that is mentioned in http://www.emulation.net/ or > > somewhere else? > > Somewhere else. I know how freaked-out Apple users can get about piracy > (I used to read comp.sys.apple2) so I'm not naming my source lest s/he > gets lynched or mailbombed. Oh, sheesh! I'm the source. I'm not afraid to let everyone know that I have the Apple /// images available to anyone who wants them. The comp.sys.apple2 anti-piracy retards basically have no lives outside of that newsgroup and thus use the Flamewar of Evermore to bring some pathetic sense of purpose to their extistence. I seriously doubt anyone of consequence will get their panties up in a bunch for handing the images out. If anyone needs the disk images, just ask. > The C library might be interesting. What I really want to know is how it > *works*, not how to use it or what it does. I want to be able to write a > deShrinkIt program for my Amiga that takes ShrinkIt files and builds valid > .dsk images. If you're lucky you should be able to track down the program's author (forget the last name but his first is Andy and his name appears on the program). He's still around so you should be able to either do a web search on his name or ask the question on comp.sys.apple2 and someone will most likely respond if they're not busy flaming somebody for uploading Hunt the Wumpus to a public file area. > Thanks for the offer, but that is uneccessary. I can't yet use ProTERM, > and ShrinkIt is available on the 'net. I did manage to get it onto a > ProDOS disk, but that corrupted on me, so I'll have to do it again. I've > still got Apple III disk images on Apple DOS 3.3 disks, though, so some of > the transfer work is already done. The disk format is the same for DOS 3.3 and SOS and even ProDOS and Apple Pascal. Its the filesystem that differs. You can read the data off of a disk with one OS from any of the other OSes. So you can copy a SOS disk with a DOS 3.3 copy program. With the images I gave you, you simply need to unshrink them using ShrinkIt on your ][+. The disks will then be good to go on your Apple ///. Let me know if you're still having problems and I'll work you through it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 15 11:11:31 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> but I can't >say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they are >about latest acquisitions/sales... > > Megan Gentry > >Not a problem Megan. As I said in the first post I anticipated exactly your reaction. I have been reading the list for months and I realize what it is intended for and what it means to y'all (excuse that, I am a Southern boy). I have never had any intention to become a regular contributor because I really am not capable of any type of contribution that the list was intended for. The only reason that I spewed forth with it this time is that I was bursting to tell someone and if I told anyone else but you guys they wouldn't even know what the hell an Altair was. There will be no more acqusitions to tell about. I stumbled onto a way to get them and now it is all over with. So unless somewhere they are building some more used Altairs that is it for me. Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people who have pointed out that I have missed out on something by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette. Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside these computers I may never be able to see it play. So I am not the enemy believe me. I truly respect all of you folks for the abilities you have. And I want to chime in here and fully agree with a post from yesterday which stated that of all of the places on the Internet which I have ever visited this one, hands down, has the most thoughtful people of any I have ever encountered. I hope you can keep your hobby as pure as you want it to be. I would never want to do anything to interfere with that. Thanks for listening to my ramblings and, who knows, maybe someday I will be lucky enough to actually meet some of you at the Computer Festival. I hope so. Regards, Your friend and supporter. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Aug 15 08:59:24 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 In-Reply-To: <199808150135.DAA21312@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <199808151802.OAA10758@smtp.interlog.com> On 15 Aug 98 at 3:35, Kees Stravers wrote: > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said: > cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not > cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came > cl>with a PCjr? > > PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive > access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was > so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was > the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were > versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. > > "In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS > version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0] > and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr." > > Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5, > Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very > detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and > tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a > long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was > the latest version when the book was printed. > > Kees > I just saw a manual for DOS2.11 in a local thrift but wound up leaving it behind by accident. I hope it's still there when I go back. It was labelled for Toshiba. I have the 2nd edition of "DOS Power Tools" ISBN 0-553-35464-7 . It covers DOS up to ver.5.0 . 3disks and some newer utilities. Quite a good book. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Aug 15 13:30:25 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 Returns - NOT! References: <199808140702.AAA25036@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <35D5D3C1.9A13122F@goldrush.com> > From: "kroma" > Subject: Commodore 64 Returns??? > > Check out this article at ZDNet > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,3441,2128102,00.html I don't think ZDNet will post my comments, as mine started with: Piracy YES. Commodore 64 NOT! This computer is a lame attempt of a failing PC clone manufacturer to monopolize on the nostalgia of users and an internet fiasco. I summed up how not a 64 it was given it has NO 64 interfaces (save for the keyboard) so you cannot hook any 64 peripherals on it (joysticks, light pens, REUs, not even 1541 disk drives). And it was merely an encouragement for owners to download pirated commercial Commodore-64 disk images off of the internet. Also I added: it may run 64 software, but in no way will it give the owner the reassurance or feeling that they actually 'own' a Commodore 64. --- I think this company is gonna have legal problems from places such as Broderbund and Eletronic Arts (or more likely CMD, who has alot of ownership of 64 licenses) if they actually do sell some of em... -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 14:58:56 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Pack Question Message-ID: OK, I just had my "Big Haul" delivered (you've got to love people that want to get rid of stuff so bad that they deliver it to you). I'll have more on this later. At the moment, I've got a question about packs. Are "NASHUA 4443" Packs RL01 packs? Also is there a way to tell RL01 and RL02 packs that aren't DEC packs apart? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 15 16:04:25 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980815061919.12915.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball > >>machines/video games (coin ops)? > > > >Guilty! Still do!! > > > >One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone > >outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a > >video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or > less, > >all 'pong' styled) games. > > > >Quite radical for the time... > > > >-jim > > > Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game > collecting hobby is about as close as it can get > to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby. > It started at roughly the same time and has a very active > and fast growing newsgroup . > > And, as I'm sure you know, > all of the innovations and developments put into the > coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for > computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting > interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer > industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc. > And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted > a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price > increases just as is happening to computer collecting. > > Interestingly, though, while game collecting and > computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware > of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their > newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining. > > > Bob Wood Probably, lack of storage space :) - don From manney at lrbcg.com Sat Aug 15 16:14:38 1998 From: manney at lrbcg.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI drive Message-ID: <01bdc891$b639db20$3828a2ce@laptop> I have just received a ZEOS 486-66 motherboard, which has a SCSI connector. Anyone have a 3-400 MB SCSI drive laying about? Thanks manney@lrbcg.com From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Aug 15 14:58:53 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: <199806262214.AAA27990@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: Finally got around to looking inside the MicroVax II I acquired. It's in the short squat rolling enclosure (BA123?) and has the following boards M7606-AA KA630-AA Q microVAX II with 1-Mbyte, floating point, time of year clock, boot/diagnostic ROM (Q22-bus) (Also M7606-AC, -AF, -AH, -AL, -AP, -AS Also M7606-EC, -EE, -EF, -EP, -ES, -ET, -EU, -EV Also M7606-ZC, -ZF, -ZP, -ZS) M7608-BA MS630-BB Q 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) (Also M7608-BC, -BE, -BH, -BL, -BP, -BR, -BS, -BT, -BU, -BV, -YC, -YF, -YS, -ZC, -ZF, -ZS) M7608-BA MS630-BB Q 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) (Also M7608-BC, -BE, -BH, -BL, -BP, -BR, -BS, -BT, -BU, -BV, -YC, -YF, -YS, -ZC, -ZF, -ZS) M7196 TSV05 Q TSV05 controller for Q/Q22 bus M3107 DHQ11-M Q 8-line async MUX module, DMA, Q-22 M3107 DHQ11-M Q 8-line async MUX module, DMA, Q-22 M7546 TQK50-AA Q TMSCP controller for TK50 tape unit M7555 RQDX3 Q Winchester and floppy disk controller (RX50/RD50-54/RD31/RD32) It has a drive apparently loaded with some version of VMS but I have to put together a console cable to find out. Then of course, the big trick will be the fact that I don't have VMS on tape or the passwords to the machine itself. :( And I can't call the company that gave it to me because several layers of red-tape were bypassed to get it to me for free. Hmmm...a friend of mine says I should find a variant of Unix for it but I used to be big into VAXen (at least on the user end) and having a VMS machine amuses me. Thoughts? Suggestions? Anthony Clifton - WireHead From rexstout at uswest.net Fri Aug 14 21:41:13 1998 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? Message-ID: What is a Burroughs TD-700 display? Picked up two of them in pretty bad shape, unknown if working or not(and don't know how to test), for free. What are they, what do they do, how do they do it, etc... Lucky me, I got a big book with the schematics! Kinda useless if you don't know what they hook up to, though. -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | Orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | -------------------------------------------------------------- From hansp at digiweb.com Sat Aug 15 17:00:22 1998 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? References: Message-ID: <35D604F6.B89CCF88@digiweb.com> Burroughs TDs were Terminal Displays. They used proprietary multidrop protocols to communicate with the mainframe. The TD-700 were flat panel displays IIRC, using the Burroughs self-scan plasma panel. Don't know how you can test them without bringing up a poll-select multi-drop communications line. I used to write those protocols in my sleep but can't recall any details. The TD-800 were CRT based terminals some based on 6800 micros others on 8086 (yes indeed) Burroughs claimed that they were the first to use the 8086 processor and helped Intel debug it. When the IBM PC came out Burroughs were using substantially more powerful hardware just as dumb terminals. I worked on a sort of skunk works project to interface a hard disk to one of the terminals and install CPM-86 on it. Fun at the time... Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Aug 15 17:01:19 1998 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: References: <199806262214.AAA27990@IAEhv.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980815150119.00751b20@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi: If you don't know the password to the system account under VMS, this isn't much of a problem. Contact me on email for the bypass procedure. At 02:58 PM 98/08/15 -0500, you wrote: > >Finally got around to looking inside the MicroVax II I acquired. It's in >the short squat rolling enclosure (BA123?) and has the following boards > > > >It has a drive apparently loaded with some version of VMS but I have to >put together a console cable to find out. Then of course, the big trick >will be the fact that I don't have VMS on tape or the passwords to the >machine itself. :( And I can't call the company that gave it to me >because several layers of red-tape were bypassed to get it to me for free. > >Hmmm...a friend of mine says I should find a variant of Unix for it but I >used to be big into VAXen (at least on the user end) and having a VMS >machine amuses me. NetBSD would be good for this machine. I run it on my Microvax II. Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 11:26:09 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 14, 98 07:20:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1502 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/dab2533c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 12:01:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: DOS2.11 In-Reply-To: <6d8cb36a.35d57558@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Aug 15, 98 07:47:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/c7fd2e16/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 11:47:00 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <19980815024758.28153.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 14, 98 07:47:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1324 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/2d939c70/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 12:19:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Bob Wood" at Aug 15, 98 09:11:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 961 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980815/1eab5f15/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Aug 15 17:19:13 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: "Bob Wood"'s message of Sat, 15 Aug 1998 09:11:31 PDT References: <19980815161132.11620.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199808152219.PAA00579@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Bob Wood" wrote: > Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people > who have pointed out that I have missed out on something > by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers > to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with > a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette. > Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just > about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have > no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And > I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate > enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow > me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside > these computers I may never be able to see it play. Here you are on this mailing list, you make a statement like that, and you don't past the statement of ignorance to asking for help? What kind of idjit are you? Could it be that you're afraid you might start learning things and thus end up like us? BWAHAHAHA! Here's the kind of idjit that I am: been there, done that (well, it was FOCAL, not Star Trek), and I can't remember what you have to type at the SOL monitor prompt to load and run the program off tape. LO? Do you have to give it load addresses, and tell it where to start execution (EX?) after loading? I've got the documentation (for FOCAL) but it'd be an afternoon of work to get to it right now. Bah. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Aug 15 17:04:32 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Marvin's message of Fri, 14 Aug 1998 19:20:49 -0700 References: <35D4F081.F5C8EAC@rain.org> Message-ID: <199808152204.PAA00255@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Marvin wrote: > There have been several comments so far about higher prices reducing the > availability of older computers/radios/etc. As a point of discussion, > what can be done about it? If the intent is to work on and find out how > things work, I don't see *any* difference between an existing older > machine, and a new one built from existing schematics. Yes, I do > realize that some of the electronics are unavailable easily anymore. That's a darn good question. That's actually the sort of thing that got me into collecting computers -- I wanted to learn something practical about hardware. (Did I? No, not really; now I collect because I'm an addict.) The fundamental problem with the answer is that most of us are cheap/spoiled. Me too. We've got used to being able to pick up hacker toys for cheap. What can you do in the way of a new machine built from existing schematics for say $50? (Cue Tim Shoppa to tell us how much it would cost to build an IMSAI today.) Well, OK, maybe you don't need all that casework, it just gets in the way when you want to do serious hardware hacking anyway. Here's where I end up following this line of thought: hackable singleboard kits. Personally I'm partial to something like a cross between a microprocessor trainer or eval kit and the Morrow Micro Decision (a Z80 with 64KB DRAM, floppy disk controller w/34-pin connector, couple of serial ports), maybe y'all have other ideas. -Frank McConnell From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 17:37:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808152204.PAA00255@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: $12K too much for you to pay for an Altair? OK, here's a guy that made a $25 Altair clone: http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=376565144 -- Doug From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 18:56:49 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil Message-ID: Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boards that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:14:11 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boards > that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? I got a bunch that way recently, too. But mine came from a distinguished scientist who should've understood that aluminum is a conductor :-( Just don't rub your feet on the carpet for good luck before you unwrap them. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:19:26 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:57 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) -- Doug From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Aug 15 18:12:41 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> At 12:46 PM 8/14/98 -0700, you wrote: >I fell very truly sorry for you. In a computer you have such an awesome >and powerful device, which can educate you in more than a few ways. >Newer equipment to a lesser degree, it's all black-boxes and corporate secrets >now, but older gear is perfect for finding out how things work. It's a shame A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? I think that automobiles are similar, in that knowing how they work, and how to work on them, is really cool, and yet, a lot of us drive modern machines (<20yo) and take them to mechanics, without ever thinking about them. That's not wrong, but if you can see the similarity, it may help to understand those who use computers without caring about how they work, or without wanting to work on them themselves. (P.S., I drive a '59 Land Rover(s) and my girlfriend's '89 Mazda.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sat Aug 15 18:12:44 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980815140211.5ed71824@ricochet.net> At 03:00 PM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of Altairs as collectibles. For example, Beanie babies are neither new in concept, well made, or even terribly uncommon. Yet they sometimes sell for ridiculous prices. Meanwhile, quality toys, which are far more uncommon, and were, in their time, ground-breaking, often sell for much less. Collector value is a function of perceived importance and perceived rarity. It may or may not have any basis whatsoever in actual fact. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Aug 15 18:27:39 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35d81833.18572425@insight> As I understand it, the idea is to keep the whole board at the same potential, whatever that is. Damage only happens when you get one part of the board grounded and another part hits a higher (or lower) potential; current flows through components, probably in ways not intended, and certainly at higher voltages than normal if it's static electricity. I would think you could wrap a board in foil, charge it up to a few thousand volts of static electricity, and then ground the foil with a big blue spark and no damage to the board. If the wrapping being conductive is a problem, why does the whole industry go to such pains to use conductive foam, peanuts, and metallic plastic bags? -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 18:34:22 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 03:56:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/7b3b5d06/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 18:40:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 15, 98 04:12:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/d561f666/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 18:47:59 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980815140211.5ed71824@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:00 PM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > >My point is that the Altair's significance has been way overstated. The > > Whether that is true or not is completely irrelevant to the pricing of > Altairs as collectibles. Not at all. It's the *perceived* significance and rarity that makes these things desirable and drives the price up. If a bunch of Altairs came on the market, the price would drop like a rock. If it becomes known that Bill Gates first wrote BASIC for the Schmaltztair rather than the Altair, the price drops. > For example, Beanie babies are neither new in concept, well made, or even > terribly uncommon. Yet they sometimes sell for ridiculous prices. > Meanwhile, quality toys, which are far more uncommon, and were, in their > time, ground-breaking, often sell for much less. Collector value is a > function of perceived importance and perceived rarity. It may or may not > have any basis whatsoever in actual fact. Nobody said anything about quality. Beanie Babies bring big bucks because those brilliant bastards at Ty came up with a scheme for artificial scarcity in the form of "birthdates" and "retirement". Once the Beanie Moms figure out they've been the victim of big scam, prices will drop like a rock. Once the overzealous Altair collectors and dealers figure out that they've been paying big bucks for a rather insignifcant flakey box, prices should drop. -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 19:12:28 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > The foil forms a faraday cage round the boards and protects them from > static. About the only danger from wrapping boards like this is that if > the foil and board are at different potentials when wrapped, there will > be a diacharge from the foil to the board. But apart from that, it's > perfectly OK to wrap them in foil. Time for me to brush up on my physics. So, does this really work well in practice? It seems to me that when I'm holding a board in one hand, I'm grounding any components that happen to be touching the foil, but there will be plenty of microgaps. If I then zap the foil, I would guess my chance of zapping more than one component would be greater than if the board were either completely isolated from the foil or completely in contact. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 19:16:59 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 07:12:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1150 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/e00755d3/attachment.ksh From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 19:34:21 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Remember that you essentially have a hollow conductor with no charges > inside. The electric field inside such a conductor is 0. So no zaps at all. Got it. So the main danger would be when the pins start poking holes in the foil, have a little clearance around them, and then I zap the pins directly. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 15 19:34:56 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 07:34:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 509 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/f5ccb512/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 15 20:29:57 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808151329.AA07413@world.std.com> Message-ID: <35D63615.7125D780@rain.org> Megan wrote: > > Well said... I agree entirely. It makes me really sad and somewhat > angry to think that some of this stuff can now only be bought by > people with deep pockets -- people who probably don't have any > contact with the computer field other than possibly using a PC... > people Have you priced out the Apple I recently? I would love to have one for the collection, but with the pricing going from $15K to $25K or so (don't know for sure), it is unlikely I will ever get one. On the other hand, I am quite sure anyone who obtains one won't be likely to junk it, and *that* is one of my main concerns. > I remember working on helping to build, and then later program one of > these machines when I was in college (1974-1978)... I've always wanted > to > get one for the sake of memories, but that'll never happen now... Never know what will happen. I ended up with a number of machines that could have been sold but the people involved thought I would better be able to appreciate it. This includes the IBM 5100 and accessories, a Lisa 2, and two of my Altairs. > No, I don't want to see you kicked off the list either, but I can't > say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they > are > about latest acquisitions/sales... I, for one, will most definitely look forward to more posts about the values being attached to the older computers. As with any field, it pays (pun intended) to be aware of the values others put on the objects in question. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 21:55:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs Message-ID: OK, I've spent around 8 hours today going through the pile of PDP-11 stuff that I got. In doing so I've made a disturbing discovery. Of the 4 RL02 disk packs that contain the media kit for RSX-11M 4.1, 3 of them have red markers. You know the ones that say don't use if marker is red. What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". Secondly, can a RL01 be read in a RL02 drive, or will I have to get one of the RL01's that I got today up and running in order to archive the RL01 packs. I want to get one of them archived ASAP as it has Whitesmith C on it (and I think Pascal). None of the RL01's have white/red markers so I've no idea how safe they are. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Aug 15 21:15:04 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: 2400 modem question Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980815221108.006a05e0@netpath.net> Maybe I'm thinking of all the 9600/14.4 modems I have worked with. Most of the 2400 I came across were internals. At 04:23 AM 8/15/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: >Odd. An awful lot of the external modems I've dealt with were 12-24 >VAC power supplies. Just about anything by Tandy comes to mind from >the bad old days when 1200 bps was considered "fast", but I'm pretty - - john higginbotham ____________________________ - webmaster www.pntprinting.com - - limbo limbo.netpath.net - From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 15 22:17:20 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: In looking at the PDP-11/03's that I got today, one thing is very obvious. They've got disk controllers that are useless to me. The controllers are from a company called 'Xebec', and it is my understanding that they went to special drives. Now I know that the /03's are SLOW, however, they're in a nice little case so I'm looking at them thinking, hmmmm. I wonder if I can put a DILOG floppy controller I've got in one of them. What I'm wondering is do such things as drive controllers care about the 18bit / 22bit differences of the backplane? At least it's my understanding that a PDP-11/03 has a 18bit backplane. On a separate note, I ended up with 3 more VT100's with this, and one of them had a loose top, so I took a look inside, and noticed that it has what looks to be a Q-Bus backplane. What is the story here? Can I put some cards in here and have a working PDP-11? (I know figure the odds) I took a look through the VT100 tech manual I got today, but couldn't find anything about the backplane. On a positive note, I've finally got some documentation, so maybe I'll quite asking so many stupid questions. :^) On that note, I think I'll send this, and spend some time trying to find some shelf space for said documentation :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sat Aug 15 22:27:31 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As long as I'm getting physics lessons, I figure now's a good time for chemistry. I've got a bunch of portables, most of them with batteries. The batteries are clearly the weak-points of these systems in terms of long-term viability. First, is there any way to ensure the batteries live forever? If not, what's the best way to preserve them, how long should I expect them to last, and what can I do now to prepare for the inevitable repair/replacement down the road? My current plan is to remove all batteries and store them in the fridge, but I'm not crazy about the idea. Do some battery types store better than others? I have to deal with NiCd, Li+, NiMH, and Lead-acid. -- Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 22:29:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration Message-ID: <199808160329.AA13241@world.std.com> >> prompt. Then it's >>>B/1 DUA0 (assumes first MSCP drive) when SYSBOOT> happens... SYSBOOT>>> SET UAFALTERNATE 1 SYSBOOT>>> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSBOOT>>> CONT then you see a normal vms boot proceed. When it gives the process terminated hit return a few times. LOGIN: SYSTEM PASSWORD: {only give a return} PASSWORD: {again ONLY RETURN} you are now logged in to the system account in single user mode. change the passwaord to something safe. $ DEFINE SYSUAF SYS$SYSTEM:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM $ RUN AUTHORIZE UAF> MOD/PASS=system system {SYSTEM account now has password SYSTEM} UAF> exit $@sys$system:shutdown when shutdown prompts for action taken hit return {take default}. When it says it's all done and you can halt the system hit the halt button and we do it again thins time with a real password. >>>B/1 dua0 SYSBOOT>>> SET UAFALTERNATE 0 {use the noew password} SYSBOOT>>> SET STARTUP_P1 "" {normal system start} SYSBOOT>>> CONT after it does its things LOGIN: SYSTEM PASSWORD: SYSTEM {FYI, ccase insensitive and notmally not echoed} Your in and have system managers prives. HELP at the $ prompt gets help. Also there are four OSs that run on it, BSD unix, netBSD, Ultrix (DEC) and VMS(DEC). The first will be hard to get. The second sorta works and ultrix I ahve no idea on the license. VMS is available on CD or any media you can find. VMS V5.4 through 6.1 are on the CD and all are under the same DECUS free hobbiest license. The versions on the CD are standard releases and DECnet runs. The CD and many archives have CMUip (TCP/IP stack) and a few other neat things. Have fun. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 22:29:55 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil Message-ID: <199808160329.AA13338@world.std.com> < Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boa < that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? Ok, I'll guess. You got some PDP-11 board for an older 11/03. They arrived wrapped in aluminum foil. Are they any good? Well, I don't know. However, wrapping them in foil is a excellent way to protect them from static damage. REALLY! If they were good that will insure they stay that way assuming no mechanical damage occurs. Allison From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Aug 15 22:42:23 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests Message-ID: <000801bdc8c7$e1dac560$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> would you take $2.4000 ? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 6:21 PM Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests >Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, >and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) > >-- Doug > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 23:41:10 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > (the WCS - Writeable Control Store I mentioned), so you can redefine the > Unlike just about every other machine of that time, there is no text > mode. However, the designers wanted it to be as fast at displaying text > as machines with said hardware text mode, so they designed a 'raster op > machine' - what we'd now call a blitter - to handle screen updates. Sounds like an Amiga 1000. ;) ;) ;) > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From mbg at world.std.com Sat Aug 15 23:51:58 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> >On a separate note, I ended up with 3 more VT100's with this, and one of >them had a loose top, so I took a look inside, and noticed that it has >what looks to be a Q-Bus backplane. What is the story here? Can I put >some cards in here and have a working PDP-11? (I know figure the odds) >I took a look through the VT100 tech manual I got today, but couldn't >find anything about the backplane. What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was in the RT-11 development group was a VT103 with an 11/73 (KDJ11-A), 256kb and a DSD880/20 controller. I did lots of RT development and testing on that machine... I still have the machine in my office in Nashua, even though I am doing Alpha work nowadays. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Aug 15 23:52:24 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Mark Tapley wrote: > >So, first open up the mouse, and clean the dirt out of the sensors.... > > While it's open, I also recommend you check continuity of the wires in the > cable. I've had a mouse fail because there was a serious kink in one of the > wires in the cable. That cable gets a lot of flexing and the kink > eventually broke that wire. Good thought. There aren't any obvious kinks, but there are all kinds of reasons a cable might fail. > I got an intermittent fault so I could localize > it by bending the cable manually and fix it by slitting the cable open, > splicing the wire, and taping it back up. That's not a very elegant fix, > but it worked. A whole new cable with a new connector at the end would be > nicer. I did the same thing with the cable on my Apple ]['s light pen, but it didn't last very long. I'd like to replace the cable, but the card is sealed in epoxy or something (nice solid black block of "stuff") and I haven't managed to open the pen itself, either. That light pen was an interesting device, with the most hilariously bad Japanese English manual, and I'd like to get it working again. I'll put that on my (ever-lengthening) "to do" list as well. > - Mark Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Aug 16 00:12:10 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > > This'll seem insignificant to most Californians. :) > [...] > > Dynalogic Hyperion > > You'll be happy to know we almost never see those Canadian Hyperion things > in California. They're pretty cool. I think mine is the only DOS 1.x > machine I've got. While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why you specify DOS 1.x? I've managed to run DOS 5.0 on my Hyperions, though I haven't done a lot of checking to see if everything works or not. DOS 3.2 crashes on one of my Hyperions, but not the other, so there must be some variations. I'm sure I've also seen another luggable system from Dynalogic that resembled the original Compaq. Has anyone else seen one of those? I dismissed as "just a crappy PC clone" at the time, but I have since become interested in that class of machine and I regret not picking that Dynalogic beast up. No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? Even programs like (an old version of) Norton's SI do weird things to my Hyperions, but VisiCalc and WordStar seem to run just fine. :) > -- Doug Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 01:35:23 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: <199808160329.AA13338@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< Unfortunatly the subject line describes how a bunch of the PDP-11/03 boa >< that I got today came. What is the chance that they are operational? > >Ok, I'll guess. > >You got some PDP-11 board for an older 11/03. >They arrived wrapped in aluminum foil. >Are they any good? > >Well, I don't know. However, wrapping them in foil is a excellent way >to protect them from static damage. REALLY! If they were good that >will insure they stay that way assuming no mechanical damage occurs. I guess that wasn't a very clear question, what can I say, I was in a bit of a hurry when I typed that. Basically I was wondering if wrapping boards in foil was as stupid as it sounded to me, or if it actually made some sense. I guess based on the various answers it makes at least a little sense. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 01:56:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: >What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was >in the RT-11 development group was a VT103 with an 11/73 (KDJ11-A), >256kb and a DSD880/20 controller. I did lots of RT development and >testing on that machine... I still have the machine in my office >in Nashua, even though I am doing Alpha work nowadays. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Now this is sounding fun. One question, do you feed the output from the SLU to the input of the VT? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 00:56:35 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an > IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why > you specify DOS 1.x? Because that's what mine came with. The Hyperion was intro'd at the Spring 1982 Comdex, which I think beat Compaq's intro, so natch the world's first portable DOS machine is going to come with MS-DOS 1.x. > No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's > internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? I take it you don't have the original docs or software? Mine came with some software called IN:TOUCH that uses the modem. I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); the connectors in the back from left to right are: composite video, phone, line, optional accoustic coupler, serial, parallel, expansion; display modes: 320x200, 640x200, 320x250, 640x250. Send me mail privately if you'd like illegal copies of the software, including BASICA and MACRO-86 1.0 (MASM 1.0?). -- Doug From rws at ais.net Sun Aug 16 01:25:15 1998 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I guess that wasn't a very clear question, what can I say, I was in a bit > of a hurry when I typed that. Basically I was wondering if wrapping boards > in foil was as stupid as it sounded to me, or if it actually made some > sense. I guess based on the various answers it makes at least a little > sense. Yes, wrapping PCB's in foil is one of the best ways to protect from static damage (there's no aluminized layer to wear out), with the following warning. Check the board first to make certain there are no batteries on it. Lithium batteries can explode if they are shorted for more than a few seconds. Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 02:33:12 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Once the overzealous Altair collectors and dealers figure out that they've > been paying big bucks for a rather insignifcant flakey box, prices should > drop. I don't think that will ever happen (at least I mean I don't think prices will ever drop to reasonable levels based on the merits of the Altair). The Altair is too much a part of computer lore, and the perception of its importance whether deserved or not will always remain. On the other hand, if Altairs start to flood the market, then you'll see a drop. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 05:12:54 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Hyperion (was: Re: This Week's Haul) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I passed up a Hyperion recently because the thrift (!) shop wanted $35 for it which is way beyond my upper limit. There are still a couple of manuals for software that I guess came with it. The binders have Hyperion printed on them. If you are interested I would pass them on to you for cost. I don't know how common/rare this stuff is so I thought I'd ask. They were about a dollar each. Colan Toronto On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Spence wrote: > > > While I would definitely classify it as an MS-DOS machine rather than an > > IBM-PC compatible (because it isn't very PC compatible), I don't know why > > you specify DOS 1.x? > > Because that's what mine came with. The Hyperion was intro'd at the > Spring 1982 Comdex, which I think beat Compaq's intro, so natch the > world's first portable DOS machine is going to come with MS-DOS 1.x. > > > No software I've tried so far (admittedly little) has seen the Hyperion's > > internal modem or serial port. What do I have to do to get these to work? > > I take it you don't have the original docs or software? Mine came with > some software called IN:TOUCH that uses the modem. > > I don't see a lot of technical details in the manual, but here are a few > tidbits: there's a built-in RAM disk (C:); the connectors in the back from > left to right are: composite video, phone, line, optional accoustic > coupler, serial, parallel, expansion; display modes: 320x200, 640x200, > 320x250, 640x250. > > Send me mail privately if you'd like illegal copies of the software, > including BASICA and MACRO-86 1.0 (MASM 1.0?). > > -- Doug > From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Aug 16 05:32:30 1998 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Great! I dread opening up the Mac, though, so I hope it's the mouse. > > It's not that hard to open up a Mac, given that extra-long Torx driver. I've got a straight-blade screwdriver that fits. I've had the Mac open at least three times. I know it's not hard. It's just that the monitor scares me. Whether it's justified fear or not, I don't know. Actually, I HAD to open it up when I first got it home, just to get it to do anything better than display a garbled "sad mac". The MacSnap memory board that was clipped onto the chips on the motherboard had cracked connectors, and removing it allowed the Mac to boot up. > Logic probes vary in cost. Radio Shack used to sell a reasonable one for > \pounds 16.00 in the UK. That's about the cheapest I've seen (although > Greenweld once had one for a tenner), but it's useable on most classic > computers. HP do some nice ones, going up to about $800. But you only > need that sort of instrument if you are seriously into this stuff. Well I'm glad there are cheap ones. A lot more stuff will be doable once I get my hands on one of those. I should keep my eyes peeled for a 'scope, too, but I don't really know what to look for. Luckily, with classic hardware, I don't need anything terribly fast. > -tony Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From bobstek at ix3.ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 08:54:22 1998 From: bobstek at ix3.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: <199808160702.AAA25032@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <000001bdc91d$5f183b20$360b3ccc@mycroft> At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run Trek80 on your SOL: 1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. 2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ . 3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on several of my original PT tapes. And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and falling debris. email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that tape - are you listening, Frank?) Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs bobstek@ix.netcom.com From wanderer at bos.nl Sun Aug 16 08:40:35 1998 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <35D6E153.4DCD@bos.nl> Hello all, Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and how many have been made? Thanks, Ed From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Aug 16 04:22:12 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: GRC 11/X3 (PDP 11/?? Clone?) in Brisbane Message-ID: <000001bdc90e$e8b764a0$32f665cb@default> I was surprised by an ad for a "PDP 11 plus plotter, monitors, disc units, printer $20" and I did a half-hour drive across town to see it this morning. What I found was a hotch-potch of branded components stacked inside a garage, but nothing from Digital apart from the RT-11 and other software manuals. The processor cage, or at least a separate "spare" cage, was badged General Robotics Corp Microcomputer GRC 11/X3 and contained boards marked on the tabs M8192, M7504 and two M8043 as well as others without marked tabs. I guess this was a PDP clone? This computer is in the Comprehensive Computer Catalog I last downloaded (Dec 97 date) on the "undated list". The "in use" processor cage was mounted in the front of a steel cabinet about 2-3' deep, about 3' high and 2' wide with a Cipher brand tape drive (Magnetic Peripherals Inc) above it. Separately boxed was a Control Data Drive CDC-CMD and to top it all off there was a BIG plotter, a Nicolet Zeta 3653sx (if I can read my scrawled notes correctly) about 4' wide and 18" high. A Compaq brand monitor went with it. The folder of documentation contained a manual for a F880 Magnetic Tape Transport but the present owner said he sent a 5-6' high tape unit to the tip a year ago so that might have been it. He also dumped a printer. Other documents referred to a M224X Fujitsu 51/4" 31-86MB drive and a SRQ011 Winchester Drive Controller but I'm not sure if they were there. There were certainly other boxes mounted in the main cabinet. There were two cardboard boxes full of manuals for SCO Xenix System V, LP1 Fortran, RT11 Fortran IV, RT11 Macro-11 and something called TSX-Plus V6.01, the RT-11 User Guide and many other fat folders of RT-11 stuff. There was heaps of irrelevant stuff stored on top and around these units so it was difficult to see everything, and as I was not going to take it away myself, I couldn't hang around keeping the owner away from what he was doing any longer. He said it all came from a geophysical company office and was in working order two years ago. All he had done is store it, but it appears to have suffered some damage - some panels were hanging loose, and there was a large old TV stored on the CDC drive causing the metal top to be bent in. If any Australians (or others?) are interested in this gear, you can contact me and I will put you in contact with the owner directly. He says he wants the space cleared, but will keep the gear for a little while yet - he does seem to want it to go to someone who can do something with it - and he is not asking much money. But remember, to take it all away, you will need at least a 1t truck! It's out of my league to get this going - I really only collect micros! The day wasn't wasted - I did pick up a CoCo3 128K system with a Tandy dual floppy disk drive and Tandy monitor plus manuals, heaps of Rompacks, magazines etc for $40, and all in perfect working order. Phil Guerney Brisbane - Australia. guerney@uq.net.au From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 07:26:39 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! References: <000001bdc91d$5f183b20$360b3ccc@mycroft> Message-ID: <35D6CFFF.71D328C7@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Bob Stek wrote: > > At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run > Trek80 on your SOL: > > 1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, > press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. > 2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ > . > 3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with > something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then > enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. > > BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old > tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on > several of my original PT tapes. > > And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve > Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode > by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio > nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and > falling debris. > > email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, > or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that > tape - are you listening, Frank?) > > Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs > > bobstek@ix.netcom.com I'd love a copy of SOL documentation. I have one on the way and havent used one since 1980. Tony From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 08:22:07 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Wrapping Boards in Foil In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > Yep... Although actually, that's not that big a problem. Use a couple of > layers of foil and you should be OK... Got boards you need to store safely? Drop in any PC store that builds systems in house. They have should bunches of anti-static bags & boxes headed for the trash. I got a bunch yesterday from regular PC motherboards that were a perfect fit for some UniBus stuff. -wayne From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 08:34:34 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Megan wrote: > What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a > more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build Wow, I've thrown out a couple dozen VT100/102/131s in the last 5 years at work. I guess they were pretty nice 20 years ago coming from a VT52 ;) If anyone has fondness for them, I've got a bunch more that will probably be hitting the dumpster soon. -wayne From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sun Aug 16 09:14:02 1998 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <009301bdc920$1ee989c0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> > >What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was I have some VT100 lookalikes lying around, a VT101 and a VT131. Any chance that these also can be turned into PDP11's? From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Aug 16 09:42:51 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Another trip to Temple Message-ID: <010f01bdc924$891e1e60$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: I made *another* trip to Temple University this weekend, so here's a rundown on the haul: - Magazines: the remaining Radio-Electronics and Popular Electronics issues. I have most issues from mid-1976 to 1982. Byte Magazine -- 1978 to 1981, scattered issues. I still have to get mid-1981to 1987 (they have to 1993, but Byte stopped being Byte around 1987 I think). Interface Age -- a handful of issues. Kilobaud -- a handful of issues. A+ -- random issues. - some random PC/XT/AT cards (CGA video, floppy cards with a DB37 external port) - SWTP dual external floppy drive with interface card. This one, plus two SWTP motherboard units (which I did not take), were under a pile of new-looking RA81 drives. This is up for trade, since I have no SWTP stuff. - RX02 and interface card - Small Houston Instruments flat-bed plotter. Once I get the model# off of it, I'll be asking for info :-). I will have go back one more time for the rest of the Byte's :-). After that, I think that I'm through there. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:03:48 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 07:17:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1756 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/5962ae8e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:15:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 15, 98 10:27:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2275 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/874a812f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:20:07 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: PERQ In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 16, 98 00:41:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/a6cf6aef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 05:58:13 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 06:55:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 921 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/b4c14206/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:40:24 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: MAC ATTACK In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Aug 16, 98 06:32:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2913 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/13361ce7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 06:41:18 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 10:56:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 166 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/3b9fd321/attachment.ksh From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 10:55:25 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise > subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to > cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that > the pack will be fine. Yup, agreed. Those drives and packs were pretty rugged. The service manual for my now-gone RK05s detailed disassembling the cartridge housing, removing the platter, and manually cleaning it with isopropyl wipes! It didn't work so well on the 20GB IDE drive I tried it on, though. Go figure?! ;) -wayne From altair8800 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 16 11:29:30 1998 From: altair8800 at hotmail.com (Bob Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! Message-ID: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> > >At the risk of turning you into more of an appreciator, here is how to run >Trek80 on your SOL: > >1. Assuming that you have your cassette player properly attached to the SOL, >press the "play" button - the tape won't start until the SOL tells it to. >2. Make sure your CAPS LOCK in on. Then at the '>' prompt enter XEQ >. >3. Alternatively, enter GET. After a few moments the SOL will respond with >something like 'TREK80 0000 23AB' (the beginning and end addresses). Then >enter EX 0 and you are aboard the Enterprise. > >BTW, I would make a copy of the tape rather than using the original. Old >tape literally get flakey, and I've had to replace the pressure pad on >several of my original PT tapes. > >And if you like Trek80 as an arcade game, you must try TARGET by Steve >Dompier. It was almost always used as an attention getter in its demo mode >by PT dealers. You fire missles at 'airplanes' and if you play an AM radio >nearby, you can hear the sound effects of missle launches, explosions, and >falling debris. > >email me with your address if you would like xerox copies of Trek80, Target, >or most SOL documentation (though I don't have FOCAL docs or a copy of that >tape - are you listening, Frank?) > >Bob Stek - Keeper of lost SOLs > >bobstek@ix.netcom.com Thanks, Bob. Looks like you may be getting me aboard the Starship Enterprise after all. I will give it my best shot. I have the SOL docs somewhere in this nightmarishly cluttered and disorganized museum I live in. May have TARGET too. I will take your advice and copy the Trek 80 cassette. I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? Bob Wood > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Aug 16 11:40:48 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: References: <199808160451.AA01310@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980816094048.03537d70@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:34 AM 8/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >Wow, I've thrown out a couple dozen VT100/102/131s in the last 5 years at >work. I guess they were pretty nice 20 years ago coming from a VT52 ;) If >anyone has fondness for them, I've got a bunch more that will probably be >hitting the dumpster soon. > > -wayne So... the obvious question for the shipping challenged, where would these be starting from? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Aug 16 11:47:50 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980816094750.035cbc00@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:58 AM 8/16/98 +0100, you wrote: >> What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images >> using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what >> concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". > >That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise >subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to >cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that >the pack will be fine. > >Personally, I'd be inclined to try them - once. Keep a finger on the load >button and spin down if you get any unusual sounds. The heads _might_ be >OK if you do that. Well... having had to deal with this situation a number of times, I'd add one more comment. From the time you press 'load', you have about 15-20 seconds before the heads load. When I'm dealing with unknown packs with the 'shockwatch' tripped, (after a close visual inspection) I keep a hand lightly on the drive while it is spinning up to help detect unusual vibrations. (you get used to the normal 'feel' after a while) A badly pranged pack will often give itself away in time to abort the load (and save the heads). YMMV! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Aug 16 11:56:47 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Setting-up RX02 Message-ID: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: Part of the haul this weekend was a DEC RX02 floppy drive and RX211 controller (for my 11/34a). I don't have any data on the controller, so how do I set it up properly? What are the default settings and what do the switch positions mean? Also, the cable that I got seems to have one contuctor broken (the pin-1 designator/red stripe). Is there any magic to the length of the cable? Can I create a new one of the same length using standard 40-pin IDC connectors and ribbon cable? Can I shorten it to the break point or should I just patch it? Any tips here are appreciated. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Preserver of "classic" computers <<<< ========== reply separator ========== >>>>> From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 14:28:25 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? Message-ID: I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? colan From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 14:31:42 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:58 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work again? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 -- Doug From peacock at simconv.com Sun Aug 16 14:44:07 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C542@NT486> >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and how many have been made? Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. IIRC there were three basic models, the /40, /42, and/44. The 44 was the high end, full 64K and the fast PerSci disks. Just before IMSAI folded, they were offering a hard drive interface to some type of 5MB top loading drive (I think it was some CDC drive equivalent to the DEC RL02), at least the salesman called and tried to sell me some, but I never actually saw them. IMSAI was famous for it's vaporware. System software was CP/M 2 with NED (aka WordMaster), a nice video terminal oriented editor. I still have one, though it does need a little work on the motherboard. How I got it was an interesting story in itself. Originally I had bought four of them for a customer, in late '78, just before IMSAI folded. After they were installed I didn't have too much contact with the customer, but I knew they were in use for several years. About 12 years later a friend of mine came over one night, dumped a VDP40 on my table and said I could have it. He had paid $5 for it at a yard sale, knew I had some IMSAIs, thought I might want it. I opened it up, and to my suprise found the custom serial card I had wired for the original customer still in there, it was one of the original VDPs I had bought. No idea how it wound up at a yard sale. Jack Peacock From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 16 14:39:31 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808161939.AA01357@world.std.com> >Now this is sounding fun. One question, do you feed the output from the >SLU to the input of the VT? You should be able to do that... but the VT103 had some special paddle board which plugged into the connector on the VT100 basic video board and which provided a connector (2x5) which connects to something like an MXV11-B, and a second connector which also attaches to the MXV11-B (or DLV11-J) and routes the signals through to the external connector (if I remember correctly - otherwise it provides a separate external conenction). I'll have to open up my VT103 at work one of these days to get the info for you (like part numbers). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:42:57 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: 3M Model 7500 plotter and a story Message-ID: I got this somewhat neat plotter today made by 3M circa 1984. Its a portable dealie that can be programmed for different types of bar and pie charts and plots, plus has text capabilities. It has a keyboard with an integrated LCD matrix display that slides off the front. It prompts you for the type of chart you want, then asks you to enter all the data points in. It then plots it for you. I also got a separate unit that has a micro-cassette storage drive and a carthridge slot for some type of modem option. So anyway, there's a reason why I'm talking about this relatively boring relic. Last week I was out of town on a project and was going home for the weekend. On my way to the airport I stopped off at a thrift store. One of the things I came across was this 3M plotter. It was marked at $29.99, but this is one of those shops that slashes prices every couple of days as the thing doesn't sell. I wanted to take it, more so because I was curious as to what it was, thinking it might be a computer with the keyboard and micro-cassette storage and all. But I didn't want to spend $30 on it and I certainly couldn't take it with me on the plane, and didn't have enough time to grab it, haul it back to the local office, then high-tail it back to the airport. So I figured when I returned on Monday, I'd head back to the shop confident it would still be there. When I got in Monday I missed the store closing by a minute. I came back in the morning of the next day to find it gone. I asked one of the store clerks if he knew what happened to it and he said that it was tossed out the night before. AAGGH!!! I was bummed, only because I thought it might have been something really neat but didn't have the chance to find out. Also, I'd failed to write down the model number and thus couldn't do a useful web search. I figured one day I would run into one again and would just have to be patient until then. Well, I would have never thought that day would be so soon. The best part is the one I got today was cheaper ($7), had a hard plastic carrying case, came with a (photocopied) manual, and some plotter paper and pens. And it works (I'm playing with it right now, its actually really cool, and useful!!) Plus the one I saw last week was on the east coast, this one was on the west, at a flea market near where my parent's live that I haven't been to in ages. So what is the purpose of this long rambling? Uncie Sam's story has a moral: there's (almost) ALWAYS one more out there, so if you don't get it the first time, don't fret (and certainly don't pay $12,100 for it). Serendipity will prevail someday and you'll get one too, but you have to be out there looking to make it happen. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:46:54 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? I have three of these beasts. I would hardly call them portable but you may be talking about a differnet model than mine. The ones I have are definitely desk-bound. They are cute looking, with a small (8") screen mounted to the side of the keyboard on a cylinder and can swivel left and right. I have the manual but don't know much about them. I got them last year and, as with everything else I've acquired since then, haven't had a chance to sit down and play with them. If yours matches the description of mine then one day I'll pull the manual (haven't the foggiest where it would be at this point) and help you do something with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 14:50:19 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 References: Message-ID: <35D737FB.7E289EE@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Doug Yowza wrote: > > I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's > worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work > again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > > -- Doug Not really. I had a chance to pick up a C64, 2 x 1541, a 1702 monitor, and about 40 games (still in boxes) for $55 this weekend. Turned him down (for now). Tony From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 14:50:47 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C542@NT486> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and > how many have been made? > > Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, > around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special > purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size > IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to > look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came > with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very > reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power > supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an > extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, > just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of > the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? Is my information wrong? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu Sun Aug 16 14:55:48 1998 From: apulo at joyce.eng.yale.edu (Tony Dellett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: MIT Flea Haul Message-ID: <35D73944.803385CC@joyce.eng.yale.edu> Well, I certainly wasn't disappointed on my first trip to the MIT flea market this weekend. I went there with childish entusiasm and $200 in my pocket and left with: 1 Atari 800 - Not working but I can fix it (needs a new 6502 wich I got tons of) 1 Vic-20 - Working 1 TI99/4A (Cream Colored) - Working 1 Macintosh Portable - Needs some work 1 Osborne 1 - Needs work but I got the technical manual with it 1 Osborne Executive - Powers up but I need a boot disk 1 Kaypro 1 - Powers up, need boot disk 1 Kaypro 2 - Powers up, need boot disk 1 Kaypro 4 - Powers Up and boots (came with Wordstar, Microplan, Basic-80, and CP/M 2.2) and $65.00 or so of my original cash. I also was able to nab a CoCo2 at a local flea for $5 Tony From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:30:56 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 07:17:20 pm Message-ID: >> >> In looking at the PDP-11/03's that I got today, one thing is very obvious. >> They've got disk controllers that are useless to me. The controllers are >> from a company called 'Xebec', and it is my understanding that they went to >> special drives. > >Hmmm.. I associate 'Xebec' with ST506 controllers. What are the >connectors on these strange boards. 'Special drives' in a DEC machine may >mean anything not made by DEC. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:34:22 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <009301bdc920$1ee989c0$d73bc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: >> >>What you have there is a VT103... it has a 4x4 backplane (Q/Q) and a >>more gutsy power supply than a standard VT100. Yes, you can build >>a working pdp-11 into it... One of my 'workhorse' machines when I was > > >I have some VT100 lookalikes lying around, a VT101 and a VT131. >Any chance that these also can be turned into PDP11's? Well, based on the fact that the terminal I've got says it's a either a VT100 or a VT101, I'd say pull the back options plate off (only takes 4 screws) if you see a 4 slot backplane in there you're probably good to go. If not, your out of luck. I opened up the second of the three terminals this morning when I was getting some stuff ready to go into storage. It doens't have the backplane. I've got one more I'll have to check. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 15:42:02 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 15, 98 06:55:23 pm Message-ID: >> What I want to do is transfer the data off of those packs onto disk images >> using one of my MV2's. This isn't a problem as I've done it before, what >> concerns me is the safety of doing it since the packs are "Red". > >That red marker means that the pack has been dropped or otherwise >subjected to shock. It's possible that the platter is distorted enough to >cause a headcrash. And it's quite possible (in fact _very_ likely) that >the pack will be fine. That's good to hear, I suspected this was the case, I opened the first one I noticed, and it looked OK. I don't want to trash a drive doing this, but I'm more than willing to risk it, as I've got more than I know what to do with at the moment. >Personally, I'd be inclined to try them - once. Keep a finger on the load >button and spin down if you get any unusual sounds. The heads _might_ be >OK if you do that. Will do, plus I'll keep Jims suggestion of watching for wierd vibrations in mind. Unfortunatly it's looking like it will be next weekend at the earliest before I can give them a try. I'm having a hard enough time getting stuff moved around. >> Secondly, can a RL01 be read in a RL02 drive, or will I have to get one of > >Not easily. There are 3 internal links you have to move - on the logic >board, R/W board, and the DC servo/PSU board. I can look them up for you, but >IMHO if you have an RL01, it's better to use that. OK, I got a pair of the RL01 drives with this stuff yesterday simply because I figured it would be the easiest route. I just wanted to check before I spent a bunch of time getting them going. Want to take the easy route on this one :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From peacock at simconv.com Sun Aug 16 15:08:47 1998 From: peacock at simconv.com (Jack Peacock) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 Message-ID: <41F0302DCC1BD011AF6100AA00B845A816C543@NT486> >I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? Except for the floppy drive/controller the machine ran ok. I never had a memory or CPU failure. Unfortunately, the floppy drives didn't work so well, and the controller seemed to work only during certain phases of the moon. Are they rare? Okay, list bargain, I'll part with mine (no, don't thank me) for a mere $5000 (US or CDN, hey, i'll absorb the arbitrage difference). Cash of course, small unmarked bills, delivered by courier overnight. Jack Peacock From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 16:03:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 In-Reply-To: References: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: >I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's >worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work >again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > >-- Doug Actually it is worth it. I've no idea what a C128D goes for, but the CMD stuff is only a year or two old. I am kind of surprised that he's getting that good of price out of it though. Must have some diehard Commodore fans bidding on it. But in all honesty it's one amazing system. If you can find the CMD web site, you'll be surprised what this stuff is selling for new. You have to be a diehard fan to have CMD stuff, the prices are worse than for Amiga hardware, but it's a very small market. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From charlesii at nwonline.net Sun Aug 16 15:04:36 1998 From: charlesii at nwonline.net (Charles Oblender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: oddball scanner Message-ID: <35D73B54.62D3@nwonline.net> I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could find a program to use this thing? From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 15:17:29 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, this IS portable. It looks like a small sewing maching and doens't weigh that much. After I posted I found stuck insid the fake leather carrying case the manual. It looks like its a 207-100 workstation. The one your describing sounds like a 203 or 205. The, almost, best part of this find is that a man who owns a used computer store was standing behind me as I grabbed it. I've dealt with him before and he's not the most pleasant person in the world so I don't feel any guilt at all. Thanks for the reply. Boy am I happy. This makes up for the Hypericon I let go a while back. Colan On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 cdrmool@interlog.com wrote: > > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? > > I have three of these beasts. I would hardly call them portable but you > may be talking about a differnet model than mine. The ones I have are > definitely desk-bound. They are cute looking, with a small (8") screen > mounted to the side of the keyboard on a cylinder and can swivel left and > right. > > I have the manual but don't know much about them. I got them last year > and, as with everything else I've acquired since then, haven't had a > chance to sit down and play with them. > > If yours matches the description of mine then one day I'll pull the manual > (haven't the foggiest where it would be at this point) and help you do > something with it. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 08/09/98] > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 12:37:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Setting-up RX02 In-Reply-To: <011501bdc937$78001ee0$56b9fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 16, 98 12:56:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1588 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/c91514a9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 12:26:38 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Recovering Data from damaged RL packs In-Reply-To: from "Wayne Cox" at Aug 16, 98 11:55:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/8a569e87/attachment.ksh From bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 19:11:34 1998 From: bobstek at ix7.ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 In-Reply-To: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <000001bdc973$982ab680$360b3ccc@mycroft> > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Wood [mailto:altair8800@hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 1998 9:30 AM > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Cc: bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Re: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! > > > > Thanks, Bob. Looks like you may be getting me aboard the > Starship Enterprise after all. I will give it my best shot. > I have the SOL docs somewhere in this nightmarishly cluttered > and disorganized museum I live in. May have TARGET too. > > I will take your advice and copy the Trek 80 cassette. > I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the > very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? > > Bob Wood In my recollection, Trek80 was one of the earliest "arcade" style games - certainly the earliest "real time" version of Star Trek of which I am aware. (BTW, the copyright dates on Trek80 and Target are both 1977.) I remember a BASIC implementation of Star Trek available on time sharing computers several years earlier. And IIRC, David Ahl's book "101 BASIC Computer Games" had a listing of it, and that must have been published around 1975 or 1976. But these BASIC versions all gave you as much time as you wanted to make your move. Trek80 and Target may have been among the earliest "real time" games programmed in assembler for the speed you needed for decent response from a 2 MHz 8080, and even then were specific to the memory-mapped VDM display. Perhaps other members of this list are aware of earlier arcade style games. There could not have been too many earlier attempts given the speed of output devices at the time. It wasn't until Microsoft came out with their BASIC compiler (19??) that I recall seeing games like PacMan and Ladders for serial terminals. And, Bob, if you start falling in love with the SOL, a friend is compiling an audio CD-ROM of all available PT cassette software - just substitute a portable CD player in place of the cassette recorder, and your SOL will be among the first vintage computers with a CD interface (sort of)! When he has the final version ready, I'll post how to get in touch with him. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 16:07:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.16.19980815135711.5ed7a78c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816160742.3b7f570c@intellistar.net> At 12:40 AM 8/16/98 +0100, Tony said: >> A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >> many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? > >I don't drive (yet), Ah, Tony, how do you have to be to drive in the UK? My guess is that you're about 40! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 16:21:32 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Apple TechStep CPU Tests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816162132.3b87e27e@intellistar.net> At 06:19 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hey, Apple weenies, I just picked up a dignostic ROM for the Mac LC, LCII, >and CLSII. It includes trouble-shooting docs. $12000 or best offer :-) > >-- Doug Ok $.50 . That's my best offer. Oh, you said Apple weenies. Well that leaves me out. Joe From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 17:26:46 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: VT100 w/Q-Bus Backplane Message-ID: OK, this is starting to get interesting. I've got a box labled VT100 boards, and it's definitely part of the guts of this terminal (the terminal works as a terminal). The terminal has had it's front nameplate removed (probably doesn't mean anything, they were all this way). On the back is a Digital tag declaring it to be a VT100-AA. Next to that is a ARC (Agency Records Control, Inc. of Bryon, Texas) declaring to be a Model ART 01. The box has the following: M7270 - KD11-HA - 11/03 CPU Board (dual) M8021 - MRV11-BA - UV ROM/RAM (dual) M7949 - LAV11 - LA180 Line Printer Interface (dual) _Another_ Xebec controller (Wierd disk I think) (Quad) ARC DFV-11A (Quad) ARC EIA Switch two 2x5 connectors, 2 switches (RUN/HALT and OVRD/NORM) 1 Vector Plugboard (prototyping board) unused, though the bag has been opened. I the ARC EIA goes in the options slot on the VT100 board. I think it's third party version of the card that Megan mentioned in a post today. It has one of the cables and it's 2x5 pin a connector on both ends. I don't know if all these board belong to this system or not, I'm pretty sure that the plug board doesn't. The MRV11-BA has 256 words of RAM, and 2 1k ROMS I dug through the manuals I've got, but couldn't come up with anything on what on earth a DFV-11A is. Off the top of my head I'd say I'm missing a SLU, and I need a disk controller. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 16:32:14 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: <19980816162931.24936.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Bob Wood wrote: > I am curious about one thing. Is the Trek 80 among the > very earliest examples of game software for microcomputers? If you're really asking if you can sell it to Alex for $100 (or $10 to anybody else), then the answer is probably yes. But as far as "very earliest" for microcomputers, I'd have to guess: no way. Games are still typically the first program that anybody writes for a new machine. I suspect Trek was a port of the much earlier minicomputer game, but what you're asking is basically "in the time since the first microcomputer was built in 1971, were there no games until 1976?". No way. One of the earlier better-known microcomputers was the Scelbi-8H (1973). Scelbi stopped making hardware in 1974, and supposedly went into the software and book-writing biz. I know he wrote a book on games for the 8008, but I don't know the year. Well before the Sol (or even the Altair) came out, there were already several microcomputer newsletters and magazines such as Creative Computing (1974), The Computer Hobbyist (1974), and Micro-8 (1974). I'm sure you can find a bunch of references to games in these. BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the TMS1000! (This message brought to you by the Destroy The Altair Myth campaign :-) -- Doug From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Aug 16 16:47:33 1998 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: C64 for $800 Message-ID: <001201bdc95f$7f1e2500$32f665cb@default> A C128D running at 20MHz with 20MB of RAM plus a 2GB Hard Drive and a 1.6MB floppy drive is one extraordinary system. It is sure worth more than a "coupla bux", although I would have fallen out of the bidding by now. Note that most of these accessories are quite new and some are useable on other systems. Phil Guerney -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 5:33 AM Subject: C64 for $800 >I'm no Commodore expert, but is there really anything in this lot that's >worth more than a coupla bux, or is this just the alex-factor at work >again? > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25343674 > >-- Doug > > From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sun Aug 16 17:49:22 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Burroughs TD-700? Message-ID: <01J0ODEO77AACYZ244@cc.usu.edu> > The TD-800 were CRT based terminals some based on 6800 micros others on > 8086 (yes indeed) Burroughs claimed that they were the first to use the > 8086 processor and helped Intel debug it. When the IBM PC came out > Burroughs were using substantially more powerful hardware just as dumb > terminals. One of the fun things about the TD-800 was that it was possible to read and write the micro's memory. I wrote a Cobol program (the only programming language I had) on a B800 to let me monkey about with the TD-800's innards. The ones I was using had a 6800 in them. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 15:57:25 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 12:30:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/7df7a9ea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 15:37:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit In-Reply-To: <199808161939.AA01357@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Aug 16, 98 03:39:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1054 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/eaf87aa4/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 17:27:46 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: The battery problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816172746.458f3886@intellistar.net> At 10:27 PM 8/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >As long as I'm getting physics lessons, I figure now's a good time for >chemistry. > >I've got a bunch of portables, most of them with batteries. The batteries >are clearly the weak-points of these systems in terms of long-term >viability. First, is there any way to ensure the batteries live forever? >If not, what's the best way to preserve them, how long should I expect >them to last, and what can I do now to prepare for the inevitable >repair/replacement down the road? > >My current plan is to remove all batteries and store them in the fridge, >but I'm not crazy about the idea. Do some battery types store better than >others? I have to deal with NiCd, Li+, NiMH, and Lead-acid. > >-- Doug > The battery life times should range as Lead-Acid, NiCad, NiMH, Li+ from shortest to highest. Lead Acid batteries will be ruined if you let them sit dead. Even as short a time as overnight can ruin them. It doesn't appear to hurt NiCads to let them sit dead. I'm not sure about the other two. NiCad and LA will both go bad with age even it they're not used so you may as well use them. For maximum life of NiCads DO NOT discharge them all the way or use a rapid charger on them. These discharge then rapid chargers that are all the rage with toy car owners are not only a waste of money, it's also ruining their batteries. Almost all battery packs use standard cells inside and there are plenty of places that will rebuild your old battery packs so they shouldn't be a big problem. I rebuild LOTS of them for HP and TI calculators. Joe From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 17:42:30 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Early Micros In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I decided to get my BYTE #1 out of the vault, and a make a quick list of microcomputers that were mentioned in that issue (Sept 1975): Martin Research MIKE 2 (8008) and MIKE 3 (8080) (no mention of the MIKE 1) games mentioned: Space War, LIFE Carl Helmer's ref to a self-published article on his 8008 microcomputer (Summer 1974) MITS Altair 8800 National Semiconductor IMP-8 National Semiconductor IMP-16 (the first 16-bitter) Scelbi-8B (8008) RGS Electronics RGS 008A (8008) Mark-8 (8008) Godbout PACE (16-bitter) Sphere 1 (6800) This list is by no means complete, it just represents those who BYTE could talk into advertising by the time their first issue came out. -- Doug From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 17:48:50 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Fixing a PDP-8 cover Message-ID: <199808162248.PAA12490@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> One of the cover pieces to my PDP-8 has seperated in the one corner where the top teal plactic piece joins the translucent plastic side. What kind of glue would you recommend I use to fix this? I don't want to do any damage to the cover by using the wrong type of glue. Thanks. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 19:05:26 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller (was: Re: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 12:30:56 pm Message-ID: >> The connectors themselves on the board (2) are standard 50-pin ribbon, the >> other end is a 50pin connector (how do I explain this), ok you know the > >Edge connectors? Yes, that sounds like what they're called :^) Couldn't think of that. >I have seen Xebec boards that link ST506 drives to a SASI bus. Somehow, I >doubt you're lucky enough to have found a SASI interface for the PDP11, >though. > >What logic is on the Q-bus card? Mostly TTL? any large chips? Any >analogue parts? > >-tony Let's see, they're quad height boards. They're a combination of 14 and 16 pin chips. They're on a 12 x 6 grid of chips, with 5 spots not having chips, two of those spots have resisters in them. Two of the chips say Beckman on them and a grey instead of black. It's got some other components on it that I can't identify. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com Fri Aug 14 14:48:51 1998 From: Anthony.Dellett at Staples.com (Dellett, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective Message-ID: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box (NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Jenkins [mailto:adam@merlin.net.au] > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 2:31 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by > being cheap. > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, > but it was also > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is > to seriously > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to > suggest that > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of > dominance (which > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the > S100) is an > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer > field. True, it > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > dominate architecture on teh market. > > >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the > elements that got > >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. > >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is > also a strong > >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting > Altairs as the > >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled > and would be > >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP > desktops, the > >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) > > I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the > collectors who > wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their > systems. I > don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do > really want a > NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the > hobbiest movement > should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view > is that the > Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a > computer, and so > even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about > one. (And yes, > I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with > the Lisa - > people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored > them in great > numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh > would have been > as successful. First you have the great implementation of a > grand concept > that you can never own, and then you follow it with an > affordable version. > Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the > hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the > potential for personal computers to move into new markets. > True, this was > a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before > the Altair, but > the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my > opinion, anyway. > > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which > the collectors > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's > praises. You > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. > > If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could > finally get my NeXT. :) > > Adam. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:14:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980816160742.3b7f570c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 16, 98 04:07:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 335 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/adcd3738/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:17:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: from "Doug Yowza" at Aug 16, 98 04:32:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/a05a2134/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 17:21:21 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: VT100 w/Q-Bus Backplane In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 02:26:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980816/114ca87f/attachment.ksh From gene at ehrich.com Sun Aug 16 18:46:15 1998 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 In-Reply-To: <009d01bdc7a7$b01b7fe0$8d27a2ce@cgregory> Message-ID: <199808162340.QAA22588@mxu2.u.washington.edu> At 01:19 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote: >Indeed, Dos 2.11 was the Dos version packaged with the PCjr (as well as >other systems, I think). Not true. DOS 2.1 was packaged with the PCjr. 2.11 was from microsoft and available later. > >Cliff Gregory >cgregory@lrbcg.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >To: Cgregory >Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 11:52 AM >Subject: Dos 2.1 and 2.11 > > > >> >>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been >>able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr? >> >> >>colan >> > ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.voicenet.com/~generic gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich P.O. Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 ------------------------------------------------------ From wpe at interserv.com Sun Aug 16 18:52:44 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? References: <3.0.1.32.19980814195833.006ea5c8@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <35D770CC.98C0A85C@interserv.com> Hmmm.... I remember a couple of incidents in the computer room, where TU78's took up smoking, on one occaision prompting the system operator to push the BIG RED BUTTON! Needless to say, a great time was had by all (It's a bit of a long story)! FWIW, in the other incident, the op on duty flipped the breaker, opened the back of the cabinet, and literally BLEW the flames out (Yup, he got an award for that one....). Will Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > At 04:30 PM 98/08/14 -0700, you wrote: > >There's info on pdp-8 power supplies, including schematics, at > >http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca. Some of the technical documentation may help > >in checking out the supply. > > The correct URL is http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8. The root URL is a > searchable database on the Northridge California earthquake from January > 1994. Not of much relevance to our hobby... > > Kevin > > --- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 18:30:02 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Fixing a PDP-8 cover In-Reply-To: <199808162248.PAA12490@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 16, 98 03:48:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/b6d5d19b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 18:34:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller (was: Re: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 04:05:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 860 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/1b59d71a/attachment.ksh From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Aug 16 17:58:53 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective In-Reply-To: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: >If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine >was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box >(NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) This is true in the US. :) In Australia only a few NeXT's seem to have made it here, so the cost is higher, and the shipping costs from the States is prohibitive. I will get one though - just not until I have a few hundred dollars to spare. Adam. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Aug 16 17:40:43 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Got a MicroVax II - Configuration In-Reply-To: <199808160329.AA13241@world.std.com> Message-ID: YES YES YES!!!!!! *Jumps about and throws mouse at floor like football* Oops... At any rate, I am now successfully logged into the MicroVax II as SYSTEM! Thanks to all who helped me out! Now if I just had documentation other than the built-in HELP database. =-D Oh well. What I have here is a system that controlled and queried devices at a utility company. It has a package (and associated running processes) that appear to update a database of these devices and notify me when they are inoperative. My theory is that it connected to them via modems because it complains that it can't access various phone related devices etc etc etc on startup. Basically, now what I'd like to do is get some assistance (in private email if it's more appropriate) to make a full backup of the system so that I can feel safer playing around with it. It's only been 7 or 8 years since I used VMS. =D I don't see any programming packages except the MACRO assembler. Hmmm...let's see I think I did Macro programming back in 91 or 92 maybe. ;) Thanks for the help and if anyone wants to help me acquire a TK50 tape and make a backup of this system, please let me know. It would be appreciated. I'm terrible about getting money to folks but I DO PAY MY DEBTS. =) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: BTW, it's running VAX/VMS 5.3-1, which is apparently not covered under the hobbyist license agreement. Hmmm...wonder if I can find the media to upgrade to 5.4... From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 16 19:09:36 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Jack Peacock wrote: > > > >Has anybody heard of the Imsai Vdp 40 machine? What is it, and > > how many have been made? > > > > Not sure how many were made, but the VDPs came out in the late 70's, > > around '78 or '79 as I remember. I bought several to use as special > > purpose POS terminals in a casino. They were in a "standard" size > > IMSAI/S-100 case, but they had a short motherboard (8 slot? have to > > look) and bays for two full height 5.25" floppies. Typically they came > > with an IMSAI 8085 CPU card, a two board floppy controller (not very > > reliable), PerSci floppies, and a 64K DRAM memory board. The power > > supply was scaled down from the big 500 watt version, plus it had an > > extra regulator board for the floppy power. There was no front panel, > > just two buttons, RESET and INT (I think this was connected to one of > > the S-100 interrupt lines), and a power switch. > > That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as > "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that > IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most > were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? > > Is my information wrong? Sam, I think that what you refer to was the VDP-80 which was their 'desktop' model. And 'desktop' is exactly the right expression, as it virtually covered one! It is reputed to be what put them out of business. - don From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:24:16 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Well before the Sol (or even the Altair) came out, there were already > several microcomputer newsletters and magazines such as Creative Computing > (1974), The Computer Hobbyist (1974), and Micro-8 (1974). I'm sure you > can find a bunch of references to games in these. Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer newsletter. Details abound at VCF 2.0. > BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial > MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system > (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the > TMS1000! Cool! What machine is that? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au Sun Aug 16 19:30:04 1998 From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> Yesterday I picked up an Osborne 1 from the dump. It seems to be in relatively good physical condition apart from a missing CAPS LOCK key (which I luckily found nearby). Unfortunately, it had been rained on. The keyboard was separate from the main unit, and it was full of water. The main unit seems to be slightly better off (at least water didn't pour out of it when I picked it up). I haven't pulled either apart yet, so I haven't seen what condition the internals are in. Can anyone give me some hints on restoring this machine? What's the best way to clean mud off circuit boards and electronic components? I'm going to check the power supply separate disconnected from the main unit, so will it need a dummy load? Is there anything in particular I should check on the Osborne 1? Finally, is it possible to make a boot disk using a PC to CP/M program like Alien or 22Disk? Where can I find a boot disk image? Thanks in advance. | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott@cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:32:59 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > Games are still typically the first program that anybody writes for a new > > machine. I suspect Trek was a port of the much earlier minicomputer game, > > but what you're asking is basically "in the time since the first > > microcomputer was built in 1971, were there no games until 1976?". No way. > > A data point. I have a list of the programs in the Intel user library > (how I wish I had the programs...), and there are several games mentioned > in there. Things like NIM, Life, Blackjack, etc. A few of them are dated > from around 1975. Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for scientific use :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 19:36:40 1998 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 Message-ID: <199808170036.RAA19768@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >Yesterday I picked up an Osborne 1 from the dump. It seems to be in >relatively good physical condition apart from a missing CAPS LOCK key >(which I luckily found nearby). Unfortunately, it had been rained on. The >keyboard was separate from the main unit, and it was full of water. The >main unit seems to be slightly better off (at least water didn't pour out >of it when I picked it up). I haven't pulled either apart yet, so I >haven't seen what condition the internals are in. I doubt the raid did much damage. Two years ago I bought a bunch of Apple II systems from a school disctrict that had set out during a storm the night before. The monitors were damp, water just poured out of the Apple IIe's upon picking them up, cards were laying on the damp ground, splattered by mud. Everything worked perfectly, and was entirely dust-free. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:43:05 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Imsai Vdp 40 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Don Maslin wrote: > > That's interesting. I've got two of these but always referred to them as > > "turn-key" IMSAIs. I thought the VDP-40 was that all-in-one computer that > > IMSAI came out with in the same timeframe that was so bug-ridden that most > > were returned to IMSAI and hardly any are in existence anymore? > > > > Is my information wrong? > > Sam, I think that what you refer to was the VDP-80 which was their > 'desktop' model. And 'desktop' is exactly the right expression, as it > virtually covered one! It is reputed to be what put them out of business. That may have been a small part of it. For the whole scoop, I recommend _Once Upon a Time in Computerland_ which tells the tale of IMSAI, how it turned into ComputerLand, and all the trickery and deceit that went on along the way. It's funny, because that story in ways sort of parallels my life at the moment with my ex-employer. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Aug 16 19:45:18 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > A data point. I have a list of the programs in the Intel user library > > (how I wish I had the programs...), and there are several games mentioned > > in there. Things like NIM, Life, Blackjack, etc. A few of them are dated > > from around 1975. > > Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months > back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number > of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for > scientific use :) And my point was to mention that the games are from the 1972-1976 timeframe. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 16 19:39:35 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> from "Scott McLauchlan" at Aug 17, 98 10:30:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1591 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980817/ad193d22/attachment.ksh From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 19:48:58 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: from "cdrmool@interlog.com" at Aug 16, 98 03:28:25 pm Message-ID: <199808170048.UAA20702@user2.infinet.com> > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? The one I got 10 years ago was a combination 3274 terminal controller and 3270/3278 terminal that spoke SNA for dialling up to an IBM SNA network. You can apparently hook multiple Informers together, using one as the 3274 and the others as terminals only, each as different logical units (LUs). It's interesting if you need to call into your local 3090, but you can't get on the 'net with the model I had. Among other problems, it was EBCDIC, not ASCII. YMMV. -ethan From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 20:02:12 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer > newsletter. Wow, that is historic. Where can I find out more? > Details abound at VCF 2.0. Thanks, I'll be there! > > BTW, I don't have any machines based on the Intel 4004 (first commercial > > MPU), but I do have a machine and games for a TI TMS1000-based system > > (second commercial MPU). Interestingly, TI *still* makes versions of the > > TMS1000! > > Cool! What machine is that? My mighty Science Fair Microcomputer Trainer. OK, so it's a later vintage TMS1000, but it's my only 4-bitter and I do love it so. -- Doug From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 20:00:37 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:35:59 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 14, 98 06:49:31 pm Message-ID: <199808170100.VAA20936@user2.infinet.com> > > I'd not worry about anything on the low voltage side of the machine - the > boards etc. While tantalum capacitors can short out and catch fire, > they're no real problem. They look a little spectacular, but that's it. > At a former company, we made DEC interface cards. We had a tantalum cap fail on one of our boards - it blew a 6mm hole in our board and the board next to it. The board to the other side in the chassis was also damaged, but not perforated. I'm told that the operators were quite upset at the noise when it blew. Normally, 'though, caps do not penetrate 6-layer boards. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Sun Aug 16 20:08:22 1998 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Altair prices In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980813150244.03376950@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Aug 13, 98 03:02:44 pm Message-ID: <199808170108.VAA21034@user2.infinet.com> > Good luck... I had an offer out for quite a while to trade an Altair > straight across for a "straight" 8, and no one took me up on it... > > -jim I had arranged to sell a rack-mount straight-8 to someone in Oregon for $1500, some time ago. I never heard back from him after he went to investigate shipping prices from Ohio. There is a table-top straight-8 at the Smithsonian (as well as a hand-made wooden-cased Apple I and an Altair of some vintage). If it's good enough for the Smithsonian, it's good enough for my house. ;-) -ethan From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Aug 16 18:55:49 1998 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L - fire hazard? In-Reply-To: <199808170100.VAA20936@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: > At a former company, we made DEC interface cards. We had a tantalum > cap fail on one of our boards - it blew a 6mm hole in our board and the board > next to it. The board to the other side in the chassis was also damaged, In college, I recall that they installed a new board in either an 11/780 or an 8600 (can't remember which it was at that point) and something went *bang* and blew a hole in that board and the next one over. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. Of course, I was just a student so to the University I WAS a fly on the wall. ;) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From yowza at yowza.com Sun Aug 16 20:19:31 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Doug Yowza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > Somewhat related point: the Nicolet monster I brought home a couple months > > back came with tons of paper tape software, and had a considerable number > > of games tapes. This for a computer that was intended strictly for > > scientific use :) > > And my point was to mention that the games are from the 1972-1976 > timeframe. But the Nicolet wasn't MPU-based, was it? There are plenty of games that date back to the 60's (like the ever popular SpaceWar on the PDP-1), 50's (Nim, tac-tac-toe, checkers), and I'd be astounded if there weren't computer games in the 40's as well. Perhaps the most surprising is that the first pong-like arcade game was done in 1958: << As far as I know, the first arcade game was created in 1958, by Willy Higinbotham at the Dept. of Nuclear Energy in the US. He wanted to make tours of the lab a bit more exciting, and so he made an analog computer with two paddles and an oscilloscope display that let two players play a sort of two-dimensional tennis (you got a side-view of the court). To be more precise, the blueprints were made Oct. 1958, a date which has been verified. (source: _Creative_Computing_ October 1982, p. 190) >> Hey, John H.: any relation to Willy? -- Doug From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Aug 16 20:20:20 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Computer Games Message-ID: Okay. I have debated over and over, whether to say what I'm going to say next. But I can provide a tidbit of interesting info. Look: no flames... I feel bad enough as it is. Be *gentle*. More than twenty years ago... in '75. I had an E-type Jaguar. I paid about $2K for said car (4 years earlier) while serving in The Glorious and Omnipotent Soldiers of His Majesty King Richard the Nixon. I **loved** that car, lusted for it as a child, finally got one. (poignant note: nice ones are now going for $40-60K) Well. Back then, I was Very Poor, and the Jag was up on blocks deteriorating and I was taking busses and bumming rides. One of the regular customers at the little surplus shop I worked for came in one day describing this *computer* he had gotten, and didn't really want. At that time... computers were the one item I would have glady traded spiritual equity to the Dark Side to have... "I'll trade ya my old Jag for it!!" I blurted. "Deal." he said. (O! to be young again!) [NOT!!!!] What he had was a 1962 Bendix G-15, with all the docs and everything. A real, vacuum-tube, hybrid, drum machine.... The previous owner, seeing the standard 220V plug, had run a long cable from an outlet, around the building, over the roof, and in the window. The Bendix was *actually* a 110V device... but someone had installed the heftier plug due to the 175KVA the thing drew starting up. Well, my 'friend' got it home, trundled it into the garage, plugged it into the clothes-dryer outlet, and, thanks to ignoring Mr. G. S. Ohm, blew out %70 percent of the thousands of germanium glass diodes it used for passive logic. I lived in an upstairs apartment... 900lbs of computer was out of the question. One of the other guys at work volunteered *his* garage, and we went to work changing diodes. Some weeks later, we fired it up... no good. More (hidden) diodes. Again. Nothing... ooops, drum clamped and motor disconnected... and clock track on the drum... Then it worked! My, were we happy!! it was about 5:30 am on a sunday, we had worked through the night.. and there it was.. the OS signed on to the console typewriter.. and it *was* a typewriter.. and IBM Executive that Bendix had fitted solenoids under.. the keys looked like a ghost was typing when output was taking place. Which gets me to the topical thread of this post: even *it* had two games (on 5-level paper tape).. one was called Nim, and the other was a version of Tic/Tac/Toe.. which re-drew the whole game (on the s l o w typewriter) with every move. Then, the lights dimmed, all the power supply meters dropped into low-margin red zones, and the breakers snapped out. Fifteen seconds later, my friend's sleepy wife stumbled into the Computer Room (garage) and asked if we wanted some fresh coffee. You can guess which circuit the coffee-maker was on. Sigh. Five years later, he moved to a different state, and we gave the G-15 to one of the Burroughs divisions for a lobby display. I lost track of it in the rush of time and career.... what I'd give to have it back. ((What I'd give to still have my Jag!)) sniff, sniff... One of these days, maybe I'll find another, on it's side in some junk yard.... who am I kidding? Anyway... just a little bit of history on Computer Gaming. Cheers John From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 16 20:32:09 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: oddball scanner References: <35D73B54.62D3@nwonline.net> Message-ID: <35D78819.EBBFF947@rain.org> Charles Oblender wrote: > > I came to own a scanner made by The Complete PC, Inc. Natrually there > isn't any software with the device do anyone here know where I could > find a program to use this thing? I am not real familiar with them, but I have both the page scanner and the hand scanner. As I recall, both require the interface card and are somewhat useless AFAIK without that card. The software came with the hand scanner, and I haven't tried it to find out if it will work with the page scanner. If they are out of business, I'd be happy to email a copy of the software. From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 16 20:51:11 1998 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit Message-ID: <199808170151.AA24681@world.std.com> >That paddleboard connector on the VT100 is one of the cleverest pieces of >design I've seen from DEC. The pins are supposed to short between the 2 >sides when there's nothing in the connector, thus linking the terminal >logic signals to the DB25 on the back. Insert a paddleboard, and you >disconnect them, allowing the paddleboard to connect separately to the >VT100 logic and the outside world. It is neat... I used that info to create my own sort of paddleboard attachment which allowed me to have the terminal EIA/20ma switch-selectable... I mounted a DPDT switch in the plastic panel which goes on the back of a VT100 20ma option and wired it so it either routed the signals through to the EIA port or shunted them off to the 20ma option... only needed to intercept 4 signal lines, if I remember correctly.. (or was it three). I still have the 'option' in a drawer at work... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jrice at texoma.net Sun Aug 16 21:17:34 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Altair - A different perspective References: <199808162331.TAA24973@charity.harvard.net> Message-ID: <35D792BE.E9A0B22E@texoma.net> I just bought one for $100.00. Turbo color slab, 16mb, 400mb, abd keyboard, 17" Trinitron, NeXt laser printer, adb sound box and all cables. The mouse was missing, the root password was lost and the feed roller ne3ed replacing on the printer. I got around the password, replaces the mouse and feed roller and I have $150.00 in my NeXt. If i could only find a NeXT dimension cube for the same price. James Dellett, Anthony wrote: > > If I remember right, NeXT computers are not that expensive. I think mine > was $450 including computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, and sound box > (NeXT Station Color Turbo W/400MB hd and 8mb of RAM) > > Tony > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Adam Jenkins [mailto:adam@merlin.net.au] > > Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 2:31 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: Altair - A different perspective > > > > > > > > >Exactly, the Altair helped kick-off the hobbiest movement by > > being cheap. > > >The Mark-8 did this earlier, but it was so slow and buggy that it was > > >pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, > > but it was also > > >pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The > > >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which > > >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle. > > > > I think that to say that the S-100 Bus and CP/M "fizzled" is > > to seriously > > understate the value of both. :) I'm sure you don't mean to > > suggest that > > they were without value, but keep in mind that 6 years of > > dominance (which > > is probably the minimum that one would give to CP/M and the > > S100) is an > > incredibly long time in the fledging personal computer > > field. True, it > > doesn't stand up that well to 15+ years of Microsoft, but it was the > > dominate architecture on teh market. > > > > >Low prices, enabled by the microprocessor, is one of the > > elements that got > > >us to where we are today. A high-degree of interactivity is another. > > >Computer graphics is another. The desktop form-factor is > > also a strong > > >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting > > Altairs as the > > >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled > > and would be > > >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP > > desktops, the > > >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-) > > > > I don't support these high prices, and I'm another of the > > collectors who > > wants to save and use, rather than simply buy and store their > > systems. I > > don't have, nor do I particularly desire, an Altair (but I do > > really want a > > NeXTCube), but the significance of the Altair and the > > hobbiest movement > > should not be measured in terms of computers sold. :) My view > > is that the > > Altair made it clear to hobiests that they could own a > > computer, and so > > even if they didn't buy one it started them dreaming about > > one. (And yes, > > I know it was not the first). This is much the same as with > > the Lisa - > > people didn't necessarily buy them, and indeed they ignored > > them in great > > numbers - but without the Lisa then I doubt the Macintosh > > would have been > > as successful. First you have the great implementation of a > > grand concept > > that you can never own, and then you follow it with an > > affordable version. > > Anyway, the point is that the Altair led to the hobbists, while the > > hobbists pushed the tech both in hardware and software, creating the > > potential for personal computers to move into new markets. > > True, this was > > a marketing dream of many of the computer companies before > > the Altair, but > > the Altair is definitly one of the most important systems. That's my > > opinion, anyway. > > > > As to prices, well I come form a number of collecting backgrounds, and > > prices are never increased so much by rarity or actual value, but by > > perceived value. When people started thinking Teddy Bears were worth > > money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which > > the collectors > > recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly > > uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's > > praises. You > > could almost guarentee that the prices would go up. > > > > If only Apple IIc's were worth a fortune - then I could > > finally get my NeXT. :) > > > > Adam. > > > > From archive at navix.net Sun Aug 16 23:13:47 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... Message-ID: <35D7ADFA.96B597CB@navix.net> I am wondering if anyone knows of a good source of Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer information. I just picked up a Pocket Computer (presumably the 'model 1', as it doesn't say Pocket Computer II, etc.). It is catalog 26-3501. Anyway, it came complete with the Printer/Cassette Interface unit.... which you snap the computer into, and the 'expansion unit' has cassette interface plugs, as well as a small calculator-like printer. Pretty snazzy little unit. Looks like it has never been used, and works like a charm. Also, I got the little guy for free!! Here's my question: It starts up to BASIC. And there are several modes of operation.... DEF, RUN, PRO, RESERVE. With a little tinkering, I have managed to figure out that the PRO mode is to program in BASIC programs. And, the RUN mode is to run them, etc. I am curious for full information on these modes. I also am wondering how to access the printer. Say, listing a BASIC program to it, or printing messages, etc., to the printer. On first guess, I figured it might use the LLIST and LPRINT type commands such as other early TRS-80 BASICs did (back in my days of adventure game making :-) .... but, I have been unable to get them to work. It seems whenever I enter those commands (or other incorrect commands), I get a 1................................ up on the screen, this seems to be some type of syntax error. I guess I just don't know much about this part of the TRS-80 timeline and am looking for any help. Accessing the printer, error codes, mode explainations, cassette commands in BASIC, etc. Thank you, CORD COSLOR -- ____________________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | | on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |------------------------------------------------------------| | | If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | | chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | |____________________________________________________________| | \_____________________________________________________________\| From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Aug 16 21:57:18 1998 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... Message-ID: <005001bdc98a$c01c6c80$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Try do search for information about the CASIO PB100 I believe they were the same machines. The PB100 was my first pocket computer, I sold it to buy a Sinclair ZX81 back in 1985 and I've missed it greatly since then. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: Cord Coslor & Deanna Wynn To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, August 16, 1998 9:31 PM Subject: TRS-80 Pocket Computer questions.... >I am wondering if anyone knows of a good source of Radio Shack >TRS-80 Pocket Computer information. I just picked up a Pocket >Computer (presumably the 'model 1', as it doesn't say Pocket >Computer II, etc.). It is catalog 26-3501. > >Anyway, it came complete with the Printer/Cassette Interface >unit.... which you snap the computer into, and the 'expansion unit' >has cassette interface plugs, as well as a small calculator-like >printer. Pretty snazzy little unit. Looks like it has never been >used, and works like a charm. Also, I got the little guy for free!! >Here's my question: It starts up to BASIC. And there are several >modes of operation.... DEF, RUN, PRO, RESERVE. With a little >tinkering, I have managed to figure out that the PRO mode is to >program in BASIC programs. And, the RUN mode is to run them, etc. I >am curious for full information on these modes. I also am wondering >how to access the printer. Say, listing a BASIC program to it, or >printing messages, etc., to the printer. On first guess, I figured >it might use the LLIST and LPRINT type commands such as other early >TRS-80 BASICs did (back in my days of adventure game making :-) .... >but, I have been unable to get them to work. It seems whenever I >enter those commands (or other incorrect commands), I get a >1................................ up on the screen, this seems to be >some type of syntax error. > >I guess I just don't know much about this part of the TRS-80 >timeline and am looking for any help. Accessing the printer, error >codes, mode explainations, cassette commands in BASIC, etc. > >Thank you, > >CORD COSLOR > >-- > ____________________________________________________________ >| Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ >| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | >| on AOL Instant Messenger: DeannaCord | | >| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | >|------------------------------------------------------------| | >| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | >|------------------------------------------------------------| | >| If you don't have AOL (like us) but want a great instant | | >| chat feature, just go to http://www.aol.com/aim | | >|____________________________________________________________| | >\_____________________________________________________________\| > > From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 22:40:34 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > > A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How > > many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? - - - > When I learn to drive I intend to get a car with (as R.A. Pease said) > 'the right number of computers controlling the engine - none' ! I'm kind of surprised to hear that attitude around here! ;) I've never been able to touch a carburetor without f**ing it up. Fixing, let alone tuning one, seems to be black magic. EFI on the other hand is logical; if you can follow directions and run a DVM, you can fix it! And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and other mechanical parts by trial end error. And if you want to get hard-core and do your own mods, those "black boxes" are just embedded microprocessors with a relatively small program. Many are off the shelf chips w. documented instrution sets. A few talented & adventuresome folks have even reverse-hacked some proprietary ones; like Clark Steppler of Jim Wolf Technology who can make a Nissan EFI computer do almost anything. So back to the original question: cars are my main hobby, and I'm all for electronics. My 122 cubic-inch Nissan econo-box turns mid 14 second runs at the drag strip; akin to getting a MIP out of one of 'dem Altairs. Yee ha :) -wayne From wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com Sun Aug 16 22:51:40 1998 From: wcox at mis.usaeroteam.com (Wayne Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: VT100s (was: Odd Q-Bus questions 18/22bit) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980816094048.03537d70@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, James Willing wrote: >> I've got a bunch more that will probably be hitting the dumpster soon. > So... the obvious question for the shipping challenged, where would these > be starting from? They're in Dayton,Ohio. All the scrap ones are non-functional. Mostly just blown comm circuits (replace the 1488 / 1489 chips.) Given my time constraints, and the fact there are probably still tons of 'em out there, I can't mess with shipping entire units. But they're free for the taking. All so some LA120 & LA100 printers & parts and one LA36 logic board. -Wayne From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 16 23:58:58 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Restoring a wet Osbourne 1 In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980817103003.00845d40@cts.canberra.edu.au> Message-ID: >Can anyone give me some hints on restoring this machine? What's the best >way to clean mud off circuit boards and electronic components? I'm going >to check the power supply separate disconnected from the main unit, so will >it need a dummy load? Is there anything in particular I should check on >the Osborne 1? Well, I wouldn't recommend it for things such as the powersupply and drives, but I've been known to throw circuitboards and keyboards in a deepsink full of water to get them washed up (they were really bad), I then blotted off most of the water with a towel, and stuck them in a food dryer. Food Dryers of sufficent size are a great asset to the classic computer collecter. The can be used quite effectively to produce a low drying heat that shouldn't damage computer components but can be used to dry them out. Weh I use it, I stick stuff in there and come back a few hours later to remove it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 23:01:31 1998 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (dave dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! Message-ID: <199808170401.VAA22021@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> At 04:32 PM 8/16/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >One of the earlier better-known microcomputers was the Scelbi-8H (1973). >Scelbi stopped making hardware in 1974, and supposedly went into the >software and book-writing biz. I know he wrote a book on games for the >8008, but I don't know the year. > It was 1976 and the games were "Space Capture", "Hexpawn", and "Hangman". Of course the 8008 code was written earlier, in 1976 Scelbi was in the book biz as you said, not hardware. The book has 8080 code added for each game, looks like a translation mostly of the 8008 code with a few exceptions. The games were not real time, (of course). All the other magazines and newsletters sound interesting! At least "The Computer Hobbyist" I think I have found all of them. Hal Chamberlin had a vector CRT display, and "pong" was one of the games. Steve Ciarcia redesigned it in an early issue of BYTE. Will also be interested in the VCF 2 program on these! -Dave From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 16 23:03:38 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> At 11:40 PM 8/16/98 -0400, you wrote: >On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Tony Duell wrote: >> > A quick question... How many people know how to work on their cars? How >> > many drive older vehicles without as much "black-box" stuff? > - - - >> When I learn to drive I intend to get a car with (as R.A. Pease said) >> 'the right number of computers controlling the engine - none' ! > >I'm kind of surprised to hear that attitude around here! ;) I've never >been able to touch a carburetor without f**ing it up. Fixing, let alone >tuning one, seems to be black magic. > >EFI on the other hand is logical; if you can follow directions and run a >DVM, you can fix it! So are carburators. You just have to study how they work and learn what part does what and when. I can make a Carter AFB do anything including sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, >many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and >other mechanical parts by trial end error. Yes but I can still swap a jet faster than I can burn an EPROM! The big advantage of the EFI is that it's more precise than a carburator, can monitor and adjust for more conditions and employs feed back sensors for even more precise control. > >And if you want to get hard-core and do your own mods, those "black boxes" >are just embedded microprocessors with a relatively small program. Many >are off the shelf chips w. documented instrution sets. A few talented & >adventuresome folks have even reverse-hacked some proprietary ones; like >Clark Steppler of Jim Wolf Technology who can make a Nissan EFI computer >do almost anything. > >So back to the original question: cars are my main hobby, and I'm all for >electronics. My 122 cubic-inch Nissan econo-box turns mid 14 second runs >at the drag strip; akin to getting a MIP out of one of 'dem Altairs. Yee >ha :) Yeah, just stuff in a P II mobo! Another motor-head! > > -wayne > > > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 00:37:41 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Xebec Controller and DFV-11A Controller In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 16, 98 04:05:26 pm Message-ID: >Aha, so not a lot of logic. I think this rules out the Q-bus card being a >complete drive controller, and it probably makes it a bus interface/host >adapter for some other controller... OK, this makes sense, I was wondering how it could do anything with so few chips. >The beckman chips are almost certainly resistor networks - probably for >termination. They don't happen to have a number like 221331 on them, do they? They've got the following: Beckman 898-5-R220/330 7720 and Beckman 898-5-R220/330 7726 >> components on it that I can't identify. > >Post a description, and I'll see if I can identify them. Well if you've got a web browser, I just stuck the a photo of it on my web site. http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/images/MVC-010F.JPG I also posted the ARC DFV-11A controller at: http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/images/MVC-011F.JPG The connector is a 50-pin connector. I appologize for the quality of the pictures, and the slowness of the server they're on. Looks like I need to get some practice with my digital camera (OK, I admit, this is the main reason why I bought the camera). Not quite sure why they turned out that bad, as my test shots when I got it turned out a lot better. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 23:41:40 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Anyone heard of an "Informer"? In-Reply-To: <199808170048.UAA20702@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: This will be great for dialing up McGill University as this is exactley the terminal required. No more tn3270, I can get on directly. Unfortunately my phone bill will be a bit high :-) Colan On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > I just grabbed a portable terminal called an Informer. It says its from > > Los Angeles and is model #207P Serial #55861 -4055 > > > > > > Anyone know anything about it before I try to fire it up? > > The one I got 10 years ago was a combination 3274 terminal controller > and 3270/3278 terminal that spoke SNA for dialling up to an IBM SNA From cdrmool at interlog.com Sun Aug 16 23:42:27 1998 From: cdrmool at interlog.com (cdrmool@interlog.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Aug 17 00:48:38 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: DLV11-F Cable Message-ID: OK, I've read through the entry on the DLV11-F in the "Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook" (I love finally having some documentation). According to it this card supports either a 20ma current loop interface or EIA-standard lines, but doesn't include modem control. My first question is, am I correct in assuming that I can attach a VT100 to it with the proper serial cable? I know I could use the 20ma current loop, IF I had a VT100 with that interface. Anyway does anyone have the pinout for a BC01V-X or BC05C-X modem cable? My guess is that it's a 40-pin ribbon connector on one end and a DB25 connector on the other. Unfortunatly I don't seem to have the pinout for the 40-pin connector or I'd see about putting this together. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 00:16:28 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: Microcomputer Digest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Don't forget _Microcomputer Digest_ (1973-74), the first microcomputer > > newsletter. > > Wow, that is historic. Where can I find out more? Manny Lemas will be discussing it at VCF 2.0 during his talk (http://www.siconic.com/vcf/ml-bio.htm). The _Microcomputer Digest_ ran from July 1974 (made a mistake on the '73 date) to July 1976. I have a full run (photocopied) courtesy of Ray Holt, the co-editor (http://www.siconic.com/vcf/rh-bio.htm). > Thanks, I'll be there! Cool! See you there! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Aug 17 00:19:00 1998 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: ProcTech SOL & Trek80 - yo, Bob Wood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > But the Nicolet wasn't MPU-based, was it? There are plenty of games that > date back to the 60's (like the ever popular SpaceWar on the PDP-1), 50's > (Nim, tac-tac-toe, checkers), and I'd be astounded if there weren't > computer games in the 40's as well. No, I was just helping to point out that computer games existed long before Trek 80, even though we were talking about microcomputers :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 08/09/98] From deker at digitaladdiction.com Mon Aug 17 01:07:27 1998 From: deker at digitaladdiction.com (Rob Deker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:36:00 2005 Subject: car computers In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980816230338.0a4753de@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Aug 1998, Joe wrote: > sing. You should hear two of those on a 426 Hemi at WOT! > Big old engines, big old computers...the appeal is pretty similar...What's the Hemi in? > And if you tweak the engine for more efficiency, > >many of them automatically compensate -- no need to swap out jets and > >other mechanical parts by trial end error. > > Yes but I can still swap a jet faster than I can burn an EPROM! The big > advantage of the EFI is that it's more precise than a carburator, can > monitor and adjust for more conditions and employs feed