From dastar at crl.com Wed Oct 1 01:55:17 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Victor 9000 down the hall Message-ID: How funny. For the past several days, everytime I walk down the hall of my office to go to the loo, I notice this odd looking computer in another company's suite. I can only see the back of it, but I can tell it is not a PC because it seems to have centronics ports on the back, although I only catch quick glimpses because I'm walking by at my usual energetic clip. Well tonight I stopped to gawk at it while the cleaning person had their door open and sure enough its a Victor 9000. I look across the desk to another computer and see a monitor with the "Victor" nameplate on it as well. What a trip. Someone in my building is actually still using a computer which I consider part of my vintage computer collection. I'm going to talk to them and see what they are using on it. Must be some old accounting or insurance or real estate or something application. I don't know what their business is because their name is "Vanier & Associates" so it could be a front company for an international arms smuggling operation for all I know. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Oct 1 00:27:05 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Calling all Seattle and area readers Message-ID: <3431DF29.E8F69D7C@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Hi there, I will be in Bellevue WA for a week, arriving Saturday 4th Oct, leaving Fri 10 Oct. Anything going on that I would kick myself for missing? Regards, Hans B Pufal From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Oct 1 09:44:29 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation Message-ID: <9709018757.AA875724664@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I've started collecting old IBM machines, (brand loyalty) and today came > across a machine called an IBM powerstation 550e. it looks very much like an > apple /// except it has two floppy drives, a db9, rj11,.and 3 db25 ports on > the back. i havent powered it up yet as i'm still trying to figure out how to > open it. I'm off work this week, so I cant ask any of the old IBMers what > this is. anyone know? Rather than merely endorsing William D's comments, I think I have one or two things to add... 1. The keyboards on our RS/6000s at work look exactly like PS/2 keyboards except there is an ID number printed in the margin of the Num Lock lamp sticker. It does not have the huge quantity of extra keys found on the 3270 workstations that I used to work with. 2. The RS/6000 are not very closely related physically to the 6150 (RT PC) family. Certainly neither our model 320 nor 375 have ISA slots - the slots are much more like the ones you describe. 3. However, I am puzzled by your physical description. I too expected a large tower for a 500 series powerstation. In fact I cannot think of any IBM product that looked like an Apple /// except possibly the Datamaster. Could the name Powerstation have been used for something other than RS/6000s? Philip. From pcoad at crl.com Wed Oct 1 03:41:36 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Who's on the list? In-Reply-To: <342E8882.3F638F52@rain.org> Message-ID: Hi, Is it possible to find out if someone is still subscribed to the list other than sending a message to them through the list? What I really want to know is: is there a way to get a list of the subscribers from the listproc? Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html New location, new name, same old stuff! From Eros at mail.dec.com Wed Oct 1 08:03:04 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Victor 9000 down the hall Message-ID: Geez, I remember that one. A office equipment company I used to work for sold those, along with some Xerox DOS box (800, maybe?), CPT word processing stations and CADO multiuser systems. My first foray into investments was buying 100 shares of Victor Technologies stock at $3/share. <> :-) -- Tony Eros Digital Equipment Corporation ---------- From: Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@crl.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 2:55 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: CC> Victor 9000 down the hall How funny. For the past several days, everytime I walk down the hall of my office to go to the loo, I notice this odd looking computer in another company's suite. I can only see the back of it, but I can tell it is not a PC because it seems to have centronics ports on the back, although I only catch quick glimpses because I'm walking by at my usual energetic clip. Well tonight I stopped to gawk at it while the cleaning person had their door open and sure enough its a Victor 9000. I look across the desk to another computer and see a monitor with the "Victor" nameplate on it as well. What a trip. Someone in my building is actually still using a computer which I consider part of my vintage computer collection. I'm going to talk to them and see what they are using on it. Must be some old accounting or insurance or real estate or something application. I don't know what their business is because their name is "Vanier & Associates" so it could be a front company for an international arms smuggling operation for all I know. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Oct 1 10:04:26 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Dead HP-97 calculator In-Reply-To: Hans Pufal's message of Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:59:56 +0200 References: <342F43DC.E5AC248F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <199710011504.IAA01178@daemonweed.reanimators.org> [Note: I saw Hans' message on comp.sys.hp.misc and replied privately, but figure there might be some other folks here who want to know this stuff.] Hans Pufal wrote: > When I got it home I found that it rattled, so I dismantled it and found > two large burnt out resistors on the keyboard PCB. The rattle was caused > by pieces of these resistors in the case. > > Does anyone have docs sufficient to determine the replacement parts for > these resistors? Time for some copying from the service manual. Useful information below is from the HP-97 Programmable Printing Calculator Service Manual, HP part number 00097-90130, dated August 1976. Table 4-9. Keyboard Printed-Circuit Assembly A2A1 (00097-60002) Replaceable Parts Ref HP p/n Description R1 0683-4715 RESISTOR, fxd, 470 ohm R2* 0683-2045 RESISTOR, fxd, 200K R2* 0684-3341 RESISTOR, fxd, 330K R3 0812-0058 RESISTOR, fxd, 8.2 ohm, 2W R4 0811-1674 RESISTOR, fxd, 4.7 ohm, 2W R5 0698-8691 RESISTOR, fxd, 4.0 ohm, 1% R6 0683-1835 RESISTOR, fxd, 18K, 5%, 1/4W R7 0683-3915 RESISTOR, fxd, 390 ohm CR1 1990-0450 LED, low battery indicator Q1 1853-0393 TRANSISTOR, PNP Q2 1853-0401 TRANSISTOR, PNP Q3 1853-0374 TRANSISTOR, PNP Q4 1854-0071 TRANSISTOR, NPN U1 1820-1629 INTEGRATED CIRCUIT, cathode driver U2 1990-0595 DISPLAY, numeric U3, 4 1858-0044 INTEGRATED CIRCUIT, quad transistors U5 1810-0252 INTEGRATED CIRCUIT, resistor network P1, 2 1251-3955 CONNECTOR, 9-pin W1 8120-2206 CABLE, 24-conductor 00097-80002 BOARD, etched R2 is marked with a * because it is selected based on the cathode driver IC U1. I don't completely get this, but there is a chart (Table 4-8, Cathode Driver Resistor Selection Chart): U1 Category: I J R2: 200K 330K Given that you say the burned out resistors are "large" I am going to guess that you are looking for R3 and R4. Here's the layout toward the rear of the board if that helps. Q4 R7 R5 Q2 R6 Q3 R2 ---U5--- R1 ---U4--- ---U3--- -------- -------- ---U1--- -------- -----------J1----------- Q1 R3 R4 > What is the power input requirements for the HP-97? 12.8VAC (from paragraph 2-42). Actually there is a flowchart that includes a test for the AC adapter. For approximately 115VAC input, the output should be between V(in)/10.55 and V(in)/7.82; for 230VAC input, the output should be between V(in)/21.1 and V(in)/15.65. The next part of the test is to connect a 10 Ohm +/- 5% 5W load across the output of the AC adapter and measure the voltage across the load; it should be between 6.2 and 7.4VAC. Hope this helps! NB- I read your message in comp.sys.hp.misc. It looks like you might have posted it to classiccmp too. I am a bit behind reading that. Feel free to repost this there. -Frank McConnell From mhop at mail.snip.net Wed Oct 1 10:38:06 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Who's on the list? Message-ID: <19971001154429479.AAA119@computer-name> > > Hi, > > Is it possible to find out if someone is still subscribed to the list > other than sending a message to them through the list? What I really > want to know is: is there a way to get a list of the subscribers > from the listproc? Send mail to the List processor with: recipients classiccmp ..that should do it. If you send "help", it will send back an almost complete list of commands. From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 1 13:18:15 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Victor 9000 down the hall Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971001111754.109fabe0@mail.crl.com> At 11:55 PM 9/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >door open and sure enough its a Victor 9000. I look across the desk to >another computer and see a monitor with the "Victor" nameplate on it as >well. What a trip. Someone in my building is actually still using a >computer which I consider part of my vintage computer collection. I'm >going to talk to them and see what they are using on it. Must be some old Please post (or at least e-mail me) with what you find out. The Vic9k has a special place in my heart (and my collection!) as my folks were considering purchasing one very early on and I remember being very impressed with its specs. They also had Victor adding machines (My dad was a CPA.) >it could be a front company for an international arms smuggling operation Well, if it is, don't worry about being sued; they probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Wed Oct 1 14:43:36 1997 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Ken Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Nicolet 290 needs home Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971001154335.0094e7b0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> At 06:14 AM 9/27/97 +0000, you wrote: >Found this on alt.folklore.computers > > We have a working (or at least it was) Nicolet 290 computer. that > need to vacate the room its been taking up for the last 20+ years. >This system is rigged up as a test bench for an MRI system (that's >all still there too) and we have all the manuals, disk packs, paper >tape programs, banks of core memory etc etc.. I plan to do a small >inventory of the parts and pieces but if I don't find it a home soon >it'll get smashed up. > Does anyone know anything about these computers? I have no idea what >else they may have been used for or how rare this thing is. Anything >anyone knows about it could be helpful towards finding it a proper >home. BTW.. Size wise you're looking at a large console with a plotter >built in and a short 19 inch rack plus many boxes of disk packs >(Diablo) and manuals. > > Ken Montgomery > CSU Sacramento > kenm@csus.edu (Ken Montgomery) > >I've never heard of a Nicolet 290... What is it? > >Ken Harbit >krh03@cvip.fresno.com > The Nioclet 290 is a dedicated instrument controller and data acquisition computer made by Nicolet Instrument Corp. in Madison, Wisconsin. Nicolet is a major manufacturer of Fourier transform (FT) infrared spectrometers, and at one time also manufactured FT Nuclear Magnetic Resonance spectrometers. I have one of the 290's great-grandchildren, the NIC 660, still operating a FTIR spectrometer in my lab. My system was purchased new in 1986, and is still running reasonably well. I don't know a lot about the 290, but what I can tell you about these computers in general is that they are essentially totally proprietary platforms that were designed and built from the ground up to control FTIR and FT NMR instrumentation and process spectral data. The design of the systems were optimized to handle fast Fourier transformation of spectoscopy data "on-the-fly" as it came off of the spectrometer. These computers use a proprietary operating system written by Nicolet (NICOS) which is somewhat Forth-like but has a user shell running on top. The user shell bears some resemblance to Unix. The 660 system I have has applications software for IR spectroscopy, some text editors, and compilers for Fortran, Basic, and Pascal. Nicolet stopped manufacturing these computers and switched over to PC's about 3-5 years ago, but still maintains some limited support (ie, parts and supplies) for these proprietary machines. From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 1 14:04:18 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Victor 9000 down the hall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > How funny. > > For the past several days, everytime I walk down the hall of my office to > go to the loo, I notice this odd looking computer in another company's > suite. I can only see the back of it, but I can tell it is not a PC > because it seems to have centronics ports on the back, although I only > catch quick glimpses because I'm walking by at my usual energetic clip. > > Well tonight I stopped to gawk at it while the cleaning person had their > door open and sure enough its a Victor 9000. I look across the desk to > another computer and see a monitor with the "Victor" nameplate on it as > well. What a trip. Someone in my building is actually still using a > computer which I consider part of my vintage computer collection. I'm > going to talk to them and see what they are using on it. Must be some old > accounting or insurance or real estate or something application. I don't > know what their business is because their name is "Vanier & Associates" so > it could be a front company for an international arms smuggling operation > for all I know. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > One thing for sure, no one can steal files on floppy disk and take them home to read up on their operations! Except you, Sam, and any one else who might have a 9000. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 1 14:09:16 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Who's on the list? In-Reply-To: <19971001154429479.AAA119@computer-name> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, mhop wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Is it possible to find out if someone is still subscribed to the list > > other than sending a message to them through the list? What I really > > want to know is: is there a way to get a list of the subscribers > > from the listproc? > > Send mail to the List processor with: > > recipients classiccmp > > ..that should do it. If you send "help", it will send back an almost complete > list of commands. Boy oh boy! That is bad news!!! A spam merchants delight. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From pcoad at crl.com Wed Oct 1 14:17:26 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> Who's on the list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, mhop wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Is it possible to find out if someone is still subscribed to the list > > > other than sending a message to them through the list? What I really > > > want to know is: is there a way to get a list of the subscribers > > > from the listproc? > > > > Send mail to the List processor with: > > > > recipients classiccmp > > > > ..that should do it. If you send "help", it will send back an almost complete > > list of commands. > > Boy oh boy! That is bad news!!! A spam merchants delight. > Well, not too bad I guess. "recipients classiccmp" only works if you are the list owner. I suppose I could mess with the From: field to get around that... Then again, after posting my work email address on the list unencoded I received a junk email. I never get junk email at that address. I haven't posted to usenet using that account for years. Someone is looking at the classiccmp list and getting email addresses. Thanks to all of those who responded to my question. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html New location, new name, same old stuff! From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 1 16:03:01 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Star Trek for CompuColor II Message-ID: I played it about 5 years ago. I let the machine slip through my fingers though (thru neglect of interest). Still a chance it can be dug up... -Matt Pritchard > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 7:49 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Star Trek for CompuColor II > > Anyone have a copy of this gem? > > thanks > > Kai From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 1 17:56:27 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Unisys / Convergent Technologies X-bus CTOS/BTOS units in Thrift Message-ID: While dropping by a local thrift (where classic game cartridges were last seen 1 and half years ago) I spotted at least 3 square modules which I recognized to be Unisys or Convergent Technologies machines which ran BTOS/CTOS. As I recall these modules snapped together along a bus (X-bus?) that ran along the bottom of each module. I didn't take a closer look to see what they were, but if anyone in the list is interested, I could go back for them to determine what is there and what price is wanted (yes, I'm offering to pick up and ship for a nominal fee - I'm just a nice guy..) Matt Pritchard matthewp@netcom.com mpritchard@ensemblestudios.com From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Oct 1 22:38:04 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP-150 disks... References: <199710010702.AAA20758@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3433171C.2F43@goldrush.com> I just picked up 34 'Hewlett Packard 150' diskettes; except for one they are all user labeled (Well I THINK they are all HP-150 disks, the disk type and labeling are very similar.) I am not certain if the 150 is in the "Classic" arena but I am assuming so by a pic I found on the web, if not sorry on printing an off-topic post. So, if there is anyone here that is interested in 34 assorted HP-150 disks, lemme know. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From engine at chac.org Wed Oct 1 22:47:01 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP-150 disks... Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971001204657.00ee4100@pop.batnet.com> At 19:38 10/1/97 -0800, you wrote: >....I am not certain if the 150 >is in the "Classic" arena but I am assuming so by a pic I found on the >web, if not sorry on printing an off-topic post. The HP-150 is: 1) vintage 1984, and 2) absolutely fascinating. It could make "Classic" tenuously on either one and, given both, has NO problem. Now -- what I keep wondering about is an Atari Portfolio (1989).... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Oct 2 00:36:51 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Paper tape reader in Seattle anyone?] Message-ID: <343332F3.FA20343@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Found on Usenet, can anyone help out? -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: pc22@u.washington.edu (Peter Clitherow) Subject: Paper tape reader in Seattle anyone? Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 11:33:32 -0700 Size: 1418 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971002/6f5808c0/attachment.mht From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Oct 2 01:34:35 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP-150 disks... Message-ID: >It could make "Classic" tenuously on either one and, given both, has NO >problem. Now -- what I keep wondering about is an Atari Portfolio (1989).... I have added it to my web site, based on a) being obsolete, b) being a new concept for its time (first MS-DOS palmtop?), and, of course, c) being really keen. Anyway, 1989 is even starting to get old in computing terms. Adam. From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Oct 2 02:21:35 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: New update on Comprehensive Computer Catalogue Message-ID: <34334B7F.9699A752@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Today I place the new version of the CCC online. Now listing 3806 computers. In this revision I have set up the infra structure to link each system to its own page. The intent is to provide information and links for each system. See the entry for the Sperry SPEEDAC computer. BTW anyone heard of the ULTRAMAC computer built in the mid fifties? -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 2 07:14:30 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Advanced Integration Research Motherboard Message-ID: <199710021243.FAA19820@mx3.u.washington.edu> Normally, 486 motherboards are set entirely in the CMOS setup program. Jumpers, etc. typically control speed and processor type. Are you having trouble getting it to come up? manney@nwohio.com >I have a 486lc motherboard and need to know about any of the settings >(i.e. jumpers and dip switch) and what the memory config is. thanks From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 2 07:27:45 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP-150 disks... Message-ID: <199710021244.FAA00107@mx2.u.washington.edu> If any is a DOS disk, there was a post recently... bcumming@mail.island.net wants DOS 3.2 or might be interested in some disks. manney >I just picked up 34 'Hewlett Packard 150' diskettes; except for one >they are all user labeled (Well I THINK they are all HP-150 disks, the >disk type and labeling are very similar.) I am not certain if the 150 >is in the "Classic" arena but I am assuming so by a pic I found on the >web, if not sorry on printing an off-topic post. > > So, if there is anyone here that is interested in 34 assorted HP-150 >disks, lemme know. > > Larry Anderson >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ >Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Oct 2 10:17:38 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP 9100 programming questions Message-ID: <199710021517.IAA16177@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Howdy, I am fooling with a 9100B calculator that used to be on exhibit, I'm guessing in the electronics museum that used to be at Foothill College. Toward that end it was hacked: a plexiglas strip was screwed to it above the switches, with cutouts for the switch handles that only let you move the power switch -- program/run, fixed/floating, and degrees/radians were all stuck on run, fixed, radians respectively. Well, I've removed that because I want to find out what if any programs were in its memory (core remembers things long after they're better forgotten), and so I want to flip the program/run switch over to PROGRAM. But I'm a little confused about the 9100's program mode, and unfortunately I don't have the manuals handy. When I flip the switch to PROGRAM, the display changes to what I am guessing is this: seems to be represented as .. True? (And does this mean there are only 256 program steps?) Are values 00-09 the keypad switches 0-9, and others in form? And if so, where's <0><0> for the form? Can I use the STEP PRGM key to single-step forward non-destructively in program mode? How can I move backward, or to a given location in program mode? Can y'all tell I'm spoiled rotten from having learned programmable calculators about 15 years later? -Frank McConnell From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Thu Oct 2 10:48:37 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: HP 9100 programming questions In-Reply-To: <199710021517.IAA16177@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 2 Oct 1997, Frank McConnell wrote: > Well, I've removed that because I want to find out what if any > programs were in its memory (core remembers things long after they're Indeed. On my 9100B, the core memory (and its contents) have outlived the magnetic card reader (which is suffering from the typical HP problem). Incidentally I am still looking for any info on the I/O port on the 9100. HP did once produce a manual on this, but nobody seems to have it. > better forgotten), and so I want to flip the program/run switch over > to PROGRAM. But I'm a little confused about the 9100's program mode, > and unfortunately I don't have the manuals handy. Have you tried pulling out the quick-ref card at the front? Assuming it's still there (which it should be - it's not easy to remove), it will list all the programming instructions. > > When I flip the switch to PROGRAM, the display changes to what I am > guessing is this: > > > > > > seems to be represented as .. True? > (And does this mean there are only 256 program steps?) I think so. The idea of -ve program steps seems to be in the back of my mind, but that may have been fast gotos (like the 67, etc) or something. > > Are values 00-09 the keypad switches 0-9, and others in > form? And if so, where's <0><0> for the > form? No. The opcodes aren't really related to the key layout IIRC. They are listed on that pull-out card, though. > > Can I use the STEP PRGM key to single-step forward non-destructively > in program mode? How can I move backward, or to a given location in > program mode? I think so, but could somebody else confirm this before you wipe you're program... If nobody else can help, I'll dig out my 9100 and play with it. > -Frank McConnell -tony From dastar at crl.com Thu Oct 2 11:23:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: Here is the exhibition list showing the people who have currently volunteered to do informational write-ups for each system. In case you missed the first request, I am asking for help in coming up with an informational, one-page write-up that will be displayed next to each computer in the exhibition at the Vintage Computer Festival. This is so that the attendees can know what they are looking at. I am re-posting the original message with an updated listing of who so far is doing what. Many, many thanks to those who have already pledged their support!! Hello Fellow Classic Computer Collecting Nerds. If you've checked out the Vintage Computer Festival web page then you know that there will be an exhibition of over 100 computer systems as part of the event. Just having the computers without any accompanying literature would probably leave a lot of attendees wondering what it was they were looking at. Therefore, I would like to have a short, one-page write-up for each machine on display giving summary information about the machine. I figured there is probably no better resource for general and historical information on old computers than this discussion group. As you know, 100 computers is a lot. So I am asking for a favor from anyone interested. I need write-ups done for the machines which will be on display! Aside from my undying gratitude, anyone who contributes write-ups will receive a free Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 t-shirt and a free pass to the show either this year or for whatever year you will be able to make it out (this WILL be an annual event). A list of the systems on display will follow. If you would like to do some write-ups for a particular system or series of systems, please e-mail me and I will let you know if a write-up is required for that system. The write-up should ideally include: The company which created the computer The founding year of the company The year the company went out of business The founder(s) of the company What the company's main market was (ie. who was their customer?) The year the computer was developed/released How many were manufactured (if known) What computer (if any) preceded this computer What computer (if any) followed this computer What operating system(s) could it run? What language(s) if any were built-in or available for it? What kinds of peripherals were available for this computer What were the attributes of this computer What processor did it use? How many bits was it? How much memory did it come with standard? How much total memory could it be expanded to? What kind of bus architecture did it use (if any) or how could it be expanded (if at all)? Did it have a carthridge slot? What other computers was it compatible with (if any)? What peripherals were specifically available for it (if any)? Disk drives or other storage devices? Printers? Displays? Other stuff like speech synthesizers, graphics tablets, etc.? What (if any) graphics capabilities did it possess? What was the resolution (of all graphics modes)? How many colors were available? Any special features of the graphics? Any special graphics hardware? What (if any) sound capabilities did it possess? How many voices did it support? Any special features of the sound? Any special sound hardware? What other significant attributes did it feature? Again, it would be ideal to have all this information, but it is not mandatory. I realize that some stuff is just a mystery. Hopefully having Vintage Computer Festival's will clear up these mysteries by getting the information flowing about old computers. If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what you want to contribute. Thanks!!! (list to follow below) MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ -------- Altos Apple Computer Apple /// A3S2 S.Ismail Apple Computer Apple //c A2S4100 S.Ismail Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2064 S.Ismail Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2128 S.Ismail Apple Computer Apple ][ A2S0016 S.Ismail Apple Computer Apple ][+ A2S1048 S.Ismail Apple Computer Lisa 2 Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A Apple Computer Macintosh M0001 Atari Atari 1040ST 1040STF Atari Atari 1200XL Home Computer 1200XL Atari Atari 130XE 130XE Atari Atari 400 Home Computer 400 Atari Atari 520ST 520ST Atari Atari 600XL Home Computer 600XL Atari Atari 800 800 Atari Atari 800XL 800XL Atari Falcon 030 Callan Data Systems Unistar 300 Commodore Amiga A1000 B.Damage Commodore Amiga A500 B.Damage Commodore CBM 2001 Series PET 2001-32 L.Anders Commodore Commodore 64 64 L.Anders Commodore Commodore 64 Personal Compu 64C L.Anders Commodore Commodore 128 128 L.Anders Commodore Commodore Plus/4 Plus/4 L.Anders Commodore PET 4016 L.Anders Commodore PET 4032 L.Anders Commodore PET 8032 L.Anders Commodore VIC 20 Computer VIC 20 B.Damage Compaq Portable CompuPro 8/16 Computer Power & Light Compal 80 Minicomputer Corona Data Systems M18P-2 Corvus Concept Cromemco Z2 Computer System Data General Data General One 2514A Epson Geneva PX-8 Epson Portable Computer HX-20 Exidy Inc. Sorcerer Computer B.Damage Fortune Systems Corporation 32:16 Forward Technologies Sun 1 Clone GCE Vectrex Heath H8 Heath Hero I Hewlett-Packard Computer HP3000/37 F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Computer HP85A F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Computer HP86B F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Portable HP110 F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Portable Plus F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Integral PC HP9000/207 F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Workstation HP9000/520 F.McConn Hewlett-Packard Computer HP9915 F.McConn IBM 3270 Personal Computer 5271 IBM Personal Computer 5150 IMSAI Manufacturing Corporat IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer Sy Interact Micro Video Intertec Data Systems SuperBrain II Kaypro Corporation Kaypro New 2 Macintosh 128 Mattel Electronics Aquarius 5931 Mindset Mindset Morrow Designs MDT 60 Morrow Designs Pivot Portable Non-Linear Systems, Inc. Kaypro II North Star Computers Horizon A.Parent OSI C4P MF Olivetti M10 Osborne Computer Corporation Executive Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 1 Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 3 Osborne Computer Corporation Vixen PMC Inc. PMC 81 Processor Technology Corp. SOL 20 Quest Electronics Super Elf Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I C.Coslor Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III C.Coslor Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 R.Merch Radio Shack TRS-80 64K Color Computer 2 26-3127B R.Merch Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 26-3027 R.Merch Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 R.Merch Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Computer Syste 26-1006-1 R.Merch Radio Shack TRS-80 PC-1 SWP Microcomputer Products ATR8000 SWTP 6800 SWTP 6809 Sanyo MBC-550 MBC-550 Sinclair ZX80 ZX80 H.Pufal Sinclair ZX81 Personal Computer ZX81 H.Pufal Sun Microsystems Workstation 2/50 Synertek VIM-1 Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 26-5103 Tandy Tandy 1000EX 25-1050B Tandy Tandy 100HX Personal Comput 25-1053A Televideo TS1603 Texas Instruments 99/4A Computer PHC004A Texas Instruments Silent 700 745 Portable Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1000 M 330 H.Pufal Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1500 H.Pufal Toshiba T1000 PA7027U Vector Graphics Inc. Vector 1 Victor Technologies, Inc. Victor 9000 412 Video Technology Ltd. Laser 50 C.Coslor Visual Computer Inc. Commuter COMMUTER US Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Oct 2 11:28:41 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: DEC-10 comparative power Message-ID: About how fast is a DECsystem-ten compared to a Pentium or something? A friend and I got into a "whose computer is faster" fight. I have the 11/23, he has a Vaxserver 3100. I have the 44, he has his Pentium/something.(133 or 150?). I have a shell into a DEC-10, does that beat him, or do I lose? (I think it does, does anyone have the numbers?) From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 2 12:15:51 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Apple Cassette Tape References: <199710021517.IAA16177@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3433D6C6.31C45AC1@rain.org> In going through some stuff I just received, I found a cassette tape with the Apple logo on it labled "RAM Test, Machine Language, P/N A2T0006X, *280.3FFR, 4K." Anyone know what machine it goes with? It has a copyright date of 1978. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Oct 2 12:28:47 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Apple Cassette Tape In-Reply-To: <3433D6C6.31C45AC1@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > In going through some stuff I just received, I found a cassette tape with > the Apple logo on it labled "RAM Test, Machine Language, P/N A2T0006X, > *280.3FFR, 4K." Anyone know what machine it goes with? It has a copyright > date of 1978. That would be for an early Apple ][. The '*280.3FFR' referrs to the loading instructions for the integer ROM monitor, and the 4k indicated RAM size. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From bpvh at primenet.com Thu Oct 2 13:57:57 1997 From: bpvh at primenet.com (Bradley P. Von Haden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Apple II hard drive?? Message-ID: <199710021857.LAA23525@usr01.primenet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971002/89d3faa8/attachment.ksh From dastar at crl.com Thu Oct 2 15:08:52 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Apple Cassette Tape In-Reply-To: <3433D6C6.31C45AC1@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > In going through some stuff I just received, I found a cassette tape with > the Apple logo on it labled "RAM Test, Machine Language, P/N A2T0006X, > *280.3FFR, 4K." Anyone know what machine it goes with? It has a copyright > date of 1978. Very cool. That came out around the time of the ][+. It was before disk drives were widely available. It was most likely one of the system cassettes that came with the ][+. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 2 17:49:12 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Apple Cassette Tape In-Reply-To: <3433D6C6.31C45AC1@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Oct 2, 97 10:15:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1034 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971002/553bb6a2/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Oct 2 23:51:45 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: HP 9100 programming questions In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:48:37 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199710030451.VAA10846@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Have you tried pulling out the quick-ref card at the front? Assuming it's > still there (which it should be - it's not easy to remove), it will list > all the programming instructions. I completely missed this. Thanks for pointing it out. I think I am going to have to turn in my Master of the Obvious card for this. > I think so. The idea of -ve program steps seems to be in the back of my > mind, but that may have been fast gotos (like the 67, etc) or something. Yes. There are two banks of memory on the 9100B, + and -. > No. The opcodes aren't really related to the key layout IIRC. They are > listed on that pull-out card, though. Yes they are. > > Can I use the STEP PRGM key to single-step forward non-destructively > > in program mode? How can I move backward, or to a given location in > > program mode? > > I think so, but could somebody else confirm this before you wipe you're > program... It's on the quick-ref card. This works as I expected. If I want to go back or go to an absolute location, I have to switch to RUN mode and do a GOTO from there, then switch back to PROGRAM mode. -Frank McConnell From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Fri Oct 3 09:10:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Slow day Message-ID: There's still plenty of them around. Most companies that had a S/36 have upgraded to its replacement, the A/S 400. ---------- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Slow day Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 7:00PM Found a HP vectra QS/16 complete monitor,kb, and computer it will go into storage for now. Only other find today was 5 plastic bags at a thrift with S/36 System Support Programs, RPG, COBOL, utilities, and microcode from 1983 there a total of 45 - 8" diskettes. Each bag was $1.40 plus tax. Now were do I find a S/36. Keep computing! From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 3 09:29:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Slow day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Faiaz, Michael C. HSD wrote: > with > S/36 System Support Programs, RPG, COBOL, utilities, and microcode from > 1983 > there a total of 45 - 8" diskettes. Each bag was $1.40 plus tax. Now > were > do I find a S/36. Keep computing! > I can get you one! It's in working condition, with 8" drive and (I think) manuals. How about a Micom? Want 750 serial ports? I can get that too. Where are you at? From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Oct 3 04:56:38 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Person needs help fixing 8" PerSci Message-ID: <199710031456.JAA03137@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> I just passing this along, can anyone help him repair his drives? Reply to him, Loufer@aol.com, not me. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:24:51 -0700 To: dlw@neosoft.com From: Loufer@aol.com Subject: http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw/comp/comphave.htmlCromemco Z2D Dave, I have an entire Cromemco Z2D system that I purchased at an auction several years ago. It was completely disassembled, and was noted as 'computer junk' and sold as a lot. Assembled, it had two monitors, two 5-1/4 drives, two 8" (wood cabinet) drives and many extra S100 cards. There's an analog-digital IO card, 3 64K mem, 6 16K mem, Dazzler (still new and unassembled), set of joysticks, and other misc hardware. Although I'm not interested in selling it (it WAS my first computer after all), but I sure could use some help finding someone to repair one of the paired 8 inch PerSci drives. Michael --------------- End of Forwarded Message ----------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From dastar at crl.com Fri Oct 3 10:32:03 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Bill Whitson operates this list Message-ID: I have no idea why people think I am the list-op of classiccmp, and I don't know how popular this opinion is, but I am, in fact, NOT the list-op. Bill Whitson is and any list related questions should go to him. This is the second time I've received a list related request. Go figure. Please update the cell in your brain which stores this information. Thank you. Now someone help this poor guy. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 04:35:10 -0500 From: Mark W Kuefel To: dastar@crl.com Subject: A DIRECT PLEA TO ISMAIL FOR HELP (and kuefel somehow finds the shift key, details below) Sam I know this is pretty stupid but I need your help if possible. The classic computer list is generating far too many messages in the firehose mode for me to possibly keep up with. I'd like to go to digest, if available or, if necessary, unsubscribe for a while (I've been ill lately and sometimes lack the energy to even log in.) Now the stupid problem. I seem to have "misplaced" my subscriber info. I know that's dumb and, generally, I'm pretty good at keeping the email message as well as a hardcopy printout. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Fri Oct 3 03:29:45 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <3434ACF9.663D@ndirect.co.uk> Sam Ismail wrote: > > If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what > you want to contribute. Thanks!!! > > (list to follow below) > > MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP > ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ -------- >> Sinclair ZX80 ZX80 H.Pufal > Sinclair ZX81 Personal Computer ZX81 and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least listed in here! Ciao enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From manney at nwohio.com Fri Oct 3 12:01:31 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Need Apple IIGS software Message-ID: <199710031714.KAA19978@mx4.u.washington.edu> A church with which I work was recently given an Apple IIGS (with "Woz" signature on the front, I notice). Does anyone have any children's educational software for Apple that he/she would be willing to donate or sell cheaply? You can get tax credit if you want. Please e-mail me -- manney@nwohio.com -- or contact the church directly: Pastor Leo Stewart Union Avenue Alliance Church 12700 Union Ave. Cleveland OH 44104 (216) 752-6184 Thanks -- you'll be doing inner city kids a great favor. P Manney "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire." From dastar at crl.com Fri Oct 3 12:12:05 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <3434ACF9.663D@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what > > you want to contribute. Thanks!!! > > > > (list to follow below) > > > > MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP > > ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ -------- > >> Sinclair ZX80 ZX80 H.Pufal > > Sinclair ZX81 Personal Computer ZX81 > > and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular > computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least > listed in here! Sure Enrico. Please do a write-up for the Spectrum. Also if you could, please send a Sinclair Spectrum to: Vintage Computer Festival 4275-29 Rosewood Drive #161 Pleasanton, California 94588 And I will be most happy to add it to the exhibition. They're pretty hard to find over here in the sates. Also, if you can tell me where you got your facts from regarding the Spectrum being the most sold and popular computer in the world I would appreciate that as well. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jrbrady at delphi.com Fri Oct 3 13:11:22 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene Message-ID: <01IODFQN7U0A8X3C3O@delphi.com> Greetings All, I've been making the rounds of Seattle-area thrift stores. Not much CP/M stuff, mostly PC compatible. Found several XT's with hard drives and full of cards for $5 each. Most ISA boards such as Mono, serial, parallel go for $1. B&W and CGA monitors go for $3-10. 5-1/4" DSDD floppy drives go for around $2 each. There's one store that has a Televideo system for $60. Rather steep, but they have a 1/2 price sale Sunday and I'll probably grab it then - good companion to the 803H in my collection. There's a huge IBM Selectric Memory typewriter for $10, which I'll also grab at the 1/2 price sale. I recently found two Kaypro-II's for $5 each. Not much Apple hardware. How does this compare to thrift stores in other areas of the country? Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From groberts at mitre.org Fri Oct 3 13:23:41 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene In-Reply-To: <01IODFQN7U0A8X3C3O@delphi.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971003142341.007e7a50@mail90> curious if you noticed any difference between "brand name thrift" (e.g. Salvation Army & Goodwill) vs. small time shops? others here have suggested that the latter is where all the "good stuff" is to be found. - gfr At 11:11 AM 10/3/97 -0700, you wrote: >Greetings All, > >I've been making the rounds of Seattle-area thrift stores. Not much >CP/M stuff, mostly PC compatible. Found several XT's with hard drives >and full of cards for $5 each. Most ISA boards such as Mono, serial, >parallel go for $1. B&W and CGA monitors go for $3-10. 5-1/4" DSDD floppy >drives go for around $2 each. There's one store that has a Televideo system >for $60. Rather steep, but they have a 1/2 price sale Sunday and I'll >probably grab it then - good companion to the 803H in my collection. There's >a huge IBM Selectric Memory typewriter for $10, which I'll also grab at the >1/2 price sale. I recently found two Kaypro-II's for $5 each. Not much >Apple hardware. > >How does this compare to thrift stores in other areas of the country? > >Regards, >Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA > > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Fri Oct 3 13:48:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: ATARI 1450XLD Message-ID: HELP! HELP! Looking for a 1450XLD! Mike From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Fri Oct 3 14:52:43 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <34354D0B.4902@ndirect.co.uk> Sam Ismail wrote: > Sure Enrico. Please do a write-up for the Spectrum. Also if you could, > please send a Sinclair Spectrum to: > > Vintage Computer Festival > 4275-29 Rosewood Drive #161 > Pleasanton, California 94588 > > And I will be most happy to add it to the exhibition. They're pretty > hard to find over here in the sates. OK, could do BUT who is going to take the responsability to send it back to me? > > Also, if you can tell me where you got your facts from regarding the > Spectrum being the most sold and popular computer in the world I would > appreciate that as well. On many BRITISH magazines I have (Sinclair User, Personal Computer News, Yours Sinclair, Your Spectrum etc.) it is reported that the Spectrum in its hayday had more than 5,000,000 users. While this could be an opinion (but it can't be far from the thruth) I don't think that you in the States realize what the Spectrum meant to million of Europeans and far east citizens. In the Russia alone there must be at least 12 different Spectrum clones (they did not care much about copyright). They were also made in Portugal, Spain, Brasil, Hong Kong and elsewhere. The Spectrum is definetely the computer for which have been published the greatest number of programs (mainly games). I alone have about 12,000 (yes: twelve thousands) different ones and I have not got them all! Beat that if you can. I don't think that the Apple II, with all its good points (and all the admiration I have for it), ever came near that. Ciao enrico > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 3 15:37:13 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: What is a Control Data QC2010? Message-ID: It's a Qbus or Unibus quad-height module with what looks like a SCSI connector on it. Anyone know what it is? The number may be wrong, it may be 1020. From marvin at rain.org Fri Oct 3 15:47:14 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 References: Message-ID: <343559D1.4E364CA7@rain.org> With the recent talk about nicad batteries, I took a look at the one in my model 100 ... fortunately. I found the nicad just starting to corrode and most likely in another couple of months would have started to spill onto the circuit board. Just mentioning it so any of you who have one or ANY computer that has an internal nicad battery might take a look at it before it does any damage to the computer. While I was trying to find out why the one I had didn't work, it decided that it was time to start working again. Wow, love those intermittent problems. Now, everything seems to be working okay from the processor part, but I have a display problem. The contrast adjustment has no effect, and the display will sometimes change its contrast while I am looking at it or if the main board is mechanically moved. Anyone have any idea what might be causing this? Thanks. From dastar at crl.com Fri Oct 3 16:23:29 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971003142341.007e7a50@mail90> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > curious if you noticed any difference between "brand name thrift" (e.g. > Salvation Army & Goodwill) vs. small time shops? others here have > suggested that the latter is where all the "good stuff" is to be found. Definitely the small time shops. Although I wouldn't really call them that because there are some rather large chain thrift stores. But in general the non-Salvation Army/Goodwill stores have the good stuff. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Fri Oct 3 16:15:46 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene In-Reply-To: <01IODFQN7U0A8X3C3O@delphi.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Jason R. Brady wrote: > I've been making the rounds of Seattle-area thrift stores. Not much > CP/M stuff, mostly PC compatible. Found several XT's with hard drives > and full of cards for $5 each. Most ISA boards such as Mono, serial, > parallel go for $1. B&W and CGA monitors go for $3-10. 5-1/4" DSDD floppy > drives go for around $2 each. There's one store that has a Televideo system > for $60. Rather steep, but they have a 1/2 price sale Sunday and I'll > probably grab it then - good companion to the 803H in my collection. There's > a huge IBM Selectric Memory typewriter for $10, which I'll also grab at the > 1/2 price sale. I recently found two Kaypro-II's for $5 each. Not much > Apple hardware. In the Bay Area (California)... I find a lot more varied stuff. Lots of Commodore, Atari, TI, Apple stuff. Of course lots of PC stuff. Some CP/M machines now and then. The thrift shops are also great for game systems and carthridges. I find a lot of my peripherals and cables for classic computers at the thrift stores. The prices vary but are mostly on the very reasonable side. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 3 17:35:23 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: DISTRIBUTED SYSTEMS CQ2010. Message-ID: That's what that card was. What is it? Anyone know? From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Oct 3 17:42:57 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971003184257.0068a64c@mail.wincom.net> At 09:23 AM 10/2/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Here is the exhibition list showing the people who have currently >volunteered to do informational write-ups for each system. > >In case you missed the first request, I am asking for help in coming up >with an informational, one-page write-up that will be displayed next to >each computer in the exhibition at the Vintage Computer Festival. This >is so that the attendees can know what they are looking at. I am >re-posting the original message with an updated listing of who so far >is doing what. Many, many thanks to those who have already pledged their >support!! > >Hello Fellow Classic Computer Collecting Nerds. > >If you've checked out the Vintage Computer Festival web page then you >know that there will be an exhibition of over 100 computer systems as >part of the event. > >Just having the computers without any accompanying literature would >probably leave a lot of attendees wondering what it was they were looking >at. Therefore, I would like to have a short, one-page write-up for each >machine on display giving summary information about the machine. I >figured there is probably no better resource for general and historical >information on old computers than this discussion group. > >As you know, 100 computers is a lot. So I am asking for a favor from >anyone interested. I need write-ups done for the machines which will be >on display! Aside from my undying gratitude, anyone who contributes >write-ups will receive a free Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 t-shirt and a >free pass to the show either this year or for whatever year you will be >able to make it out (this WILL be an annual event). > >A list of the systems on display will follow. If you would like to do some >write-ups for a particular system or series of systems, please e-mail me >and I will let you know if a write-up is required for that system. > >The write-up should ideally include: > >The company which created the computer > The founding year of the company > The year the company went out of business > The founder(s) of the company > What the company's main market was (ie. who was their customer?) >The year the computer was developed/released >How many were manufactured (if known) >What computer (if any) preceded this computer >What computer (if any) followed this computer >What operating system(s) could it run? >What language(s) if any were built-in or available for it? >What kinds of peripherals were available for this computer >What were the attributes of this computer > What processor did it use? How many bits was it? > How much memory did it come with standard? How much total memory > could it be expanded to? > What kind of bus architecture did it use (if any) or how could it be > expanded (if at all)? Did it have a carthridge slot? > What other computers was it compatible with (if any)? > What peripherals were specifically available for it (if any)? > Disk drives or other storage devices? > Printers? > Displays? > Other stuff like speech synthesizers, graphics tablets, etc.? > What (if any) graphics capabilities did it possess? > What was the resolution (of all graphics modes)? > How many colors were available? > Any special features of the graphics? Any special graphics hardware? > What (if any) sound capabilities did it possess? > How many voices did it support? > Any special features of the sound? Any special sound hardware? > What other significant attributes did it feature? > >Again, it would be ideal to have all this information, but it is not >mandatory. I realize that some stuff is just a mystery. Hopefully >having Vintage Computer Festival's will clear up these mysteries by >getting the information flowing about old computers. > >If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what >you want to contribute. Thanks!!! > Hi, Sam: Have you ever heard of the Icon computer? It seems that back in the late '70s the poobahs at the Department of Education for Ontario (Canada) were upset because incompatable computers were finding their way into classrooms, and the programs for these C-64s and Apple ][s could not be used on each other. Being bureaucrats they came up with a solution: design and build their own computer which would be installed in all seventy five thousand Ontario classrooms! Naturally this was designed by a committee, and since it was to be for educational purposes they consulted with one (1) teacher and no students. Since it was to be used by everyone from little five year olds in kindergarten to senior high students they made the beast in one big chunk,cpu, monitor and keyboard, one size fits all. Since neither the C-64 or Apple software would run on it they assumed that programmers would be happy to supply the needs of all grade levels. Unfortunately by the time the Icon (also widely known as theBionic Beaver) was introduced in 1983, with the government subsidizing two thirds of the cost, the school boards found that their one third would buy several C-64s or an Apple, and would even go a long way toward an XT or a Mac, all of which had far more software available. Some of the Icons ended up in high schools, usually as terminals on networks. I have been trying to get one for my collection, but so far have only the junction box used to hook them to the server. Cheers Charlie Fox > From marvin at rain.org Fri Oct 3 20:07:50 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene References: <01IODFQN7U0A8X3C3O@delphi.com> Message-ID: <343596E6.A24AA782@rain.org> Jason R. Brady wrote: > I've been making the rounds of Seattle-area thrift stores. Not much > CP/M stuff, mostly PC compatible. Found several XT's with hard drives > > How does this compare to thrift stores in other areas of the country? I don't visit thrift stores too often, but I have visited one place a couple of times over the last week or so. A Sanyo 675 (or similar number) luggable computer started at about $27. They lowered it to about $9 and it was gone. Prices are typically $0.90 for untested stuff. I bought an Apple II+, Eagle II, Coco 2, and some other stuff at those prices. Tested, the same things start about $9 or so. From dastar at crl.com Fri Oct 3 19:57:03 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: YES!!! Message-ID: I AM FINALLY FREE FROM crl, THE PIMPLE ON THE ASS OF THE INTERNET! My new primary e-mail address is dastar@wco.com. Please do not ever even consider to consider using crl.com or I will find you and kill you to save you from the misery. I can also be e-mailed at dastar@siconic.com. All mail to dastar@crl.com will be forwarded automatically, but please update your address books. Thank you. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Oct 3 20:26:45 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: IBM powerstation, the answer here! Message-ID: <971003212539_1832860924@emout19.mail.aol.com> I asked one of the old IBMers at work what this powerstation 550e i had was. turns out it is indeed part of the RISC6000 family. I guess what i have is just a workstation that ran batch jobs or something like that, not too useful by itself it seems. I presume it runs/ran AIX. it was difficult to find any info it. web search didnt bring up anything, and 800-IBM-SERV handles the RISC6K family, but they referred me elsewhere for this 550e, since they didnt know what it was. it only cost $5, and it is an interesting addtion to my ever growing esoteric collection of ibm machines. now, if i could just get this powerstation to run with my PC RT... david From mhop at mail.snip.net Fri Oct 3 20:30:01 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: finally found: Your Computer Message-ID: <19971004013646362.AAB83@computer-name> A long time ago I told everyone here that I had a computer in my closet somewhere, and someone asked me to let them know when I found it. "Your Computer" with sound and music for family, business, educational and entertainment use It's rubber keybad seems identical to the Timex Sinclair, well, not that black Sinclair with the membrane keyboard, but the other one. It's housed in white plastic, green rubber keys and... Japaneese intructions - except for the BASic listed programs inside. Z80A CPU Expandable to 16k ram or 32 k ram 42 Keys Keyboard programmable speaker output Direct drive a thermal printer 24 rows by 32 characters video display using either home tv or monitor 22 graphic symbol available Reverse video characters available Built in cassette interface (I don't know *what this might be..) High resolution graphics capability Automatic repeat on space bar insert, delete and cursor control keys Programmable slow mode and fast mode .. and least that is what is says on the box. It's in its original box and styrophome. Who wants it? It'll cost you the postage to send it. I live in Somerdale, NJ. mhop@snip.net From mhop at mail.snip.net Fri Oct 3 21:35:59 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: ATARI 1450XLD Message-ID: <19971004024503814.AAB176@computer-name> > HELP! HELP! > Looking for a 1450XLD! > > Mike It will be hard to find. I think only a few prototypes were made by Atari. From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Oct 3 23:00:40 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: finally found: Your Computer Message-ID: <199710040359.WAA19471@sunflower.com> I'll take it ---------- > From: mhop > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: finally found: Your Computer > Date: Friday, October 03, 1997 8:30 PM > > A long time ago I told everyone here that I had a computer in my closet > somewhere, and someone asked me to let them know when I found it. > > "Your Computer" > with sound and music > for family, business, educational and entertainment use > > It's rubber keybad seems identical to the Timex Sinclair, well, not that black > Sinclair with the membrane keyboard, but the other one. It's housed in white > plastic, green rubber keys and... > > Japaneese intructions - except for the BASic listed programs inside. > > Z80A CPU > Expandable to 16k ram or 32 k ram > 42 Keys Keyboard > programmable speaker output > Direct drive a thermal printer > 24 rows by 32 characters video display using either home tv or monitor > 22 graphic symbol available > Reverse video characters available > Built in cassette interface (I don't know *what this might be..) > High resolution graphics capability > Automatic repeat on space bar insert, delete and cursor control keys > Programmable slow mode and fast mode > > .. and least that is what is says on the box. It's in its original box and > styrophome. > > Who wants it? It'll cost you the postage to send it. I live in Somerdale, > NJ. > > mhop@snip.net From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 3 14:11:34 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Kaypro PC program wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had a call this morning from a chap in Minnesota who has a Kaypro PC. One of his floppies is apparently damaged and he is unable to load a program called Poly-Windows (or something close.) Says he is stuck with DOS only. Aaahhh! Poor chap. Anyway, departing from the sarcasm, if anyone has a copy of that program - better yet the disk - I would appreciate your sending me a copy by e-mail, or advising where I can pick it up. Thanks! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From rcini at classic.msn.com Sat Oct 4 12:16:05 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul Message-ID: Well, I made another trip to Temple Univ. this weekend to pick-up more equipment. Alas, I did not get to the "records room" again because my contact was gone for the weekend and none of his co-workers knew where the file cabinets were. Oh well, I'll go back in December. Here's what I did get, though: 2-RD52 drives for the uVAX A copy of VisiCalc for the PC, version 1.2 A Sun 3/50 workstation (I need help with this one). I also saw a Chinese knock-off of an Apple II. Nothing on it said Apple, but the board was identical. It had a cheap plastic case and a metal base plate. I stashed it, so maybe I'll get it when I go down next. Regarding the Sun machine, it's a workstation-style case with a 17" (or 19"??) monitor attached to a base. It has an Ethernet port, 2 serial ports, and a SCSI port. The monitor has a DB9 connection, and the keyboard is a DB15. Unfortunately, there was no keyboard/mouse and no monitor cable. Can anyone help me out with these parts? More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com ClubWin! charter member (6) MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Oct 4 18:41:40 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: The Seattle Thrift Store Scene Message-ID: <971004194139_964754500@emout11.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-10-04 01:07:53 EDT, you write: << On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > curious if you noticed any difference between "brand name thrift" (e.g. > Salvation Army & Goodwill) vs. small time shops? others here have > suggested that the latter is where all the "good stuff" is to be found. >> the small time shops here in nc don't have much, although i did find an apple rgb monitor for a gs there. there's one goodwill close to me that used to get plenty of old computers there, and even recent items, like an ncr ps/2 clone and vga monitor for$30! they usually priced computers and monitors there for $10 each, but they've raised the prices, probably because i'd go in there every week and buy what i found interesting. they had a ps2 8580 in there a while back for $75! i think some idiot actually bought it... david From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 4 23:37:53 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Introduction/help References: Message-ID: <343719A1.7C96@worldnet.att.net> Hi, I just started subscribing to this group. I wish I ha known about it earlier. I need some help in finding information for a few computers on my collection. Some of them I got without even any software and I have no idea what they can run. If you're interested in helping please check out http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon This is where I display my stuff. Just a few words about me: I'm a software engineer in the Twin Cities area and crazy about old computers (like most of you :). My coworkers usually give me a hard time and don't understand people using software that was not designed for Windows 95. I'm this is familliar to most of you too. Well let's keep it short for now. Francois PS: I will try my best to answer any questions. From starling at umr.edu Sat Oct 4 21:30:11 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Oct 4, 97 05:16:05 pm Message-ID: <199710050230.VAA23380@saucer.cc.umr.edu> > > Regarding the Sun machine, it's a workstation-style case with a 17" (or > 19"??) monitor attached to a base. It has an Ethernet port, 2 serial ports, > and a SCSI port. The monitor has a DB9 connection, and the keyboard is a DB15. > Unfortunately, there was no keyboard/mouse and no monitor cable. Can anyone > help me out with these parts? > You actually don't NEED a keyboard and mouse. You can hook up a dumb terminal (or computer running a com program) on Serial port A and it'll default to using that port as console. You may or may not need to take out the graphics adapter (or is it built-in on the 3/50? I can't remember). The port runs at 9600 baud, with 7E1 prefered over 8N1, but I think both work. OSes that'll run on the machine at NetBSD, SunOS, Linux(?) and older versions of Solaris(?). Although the Sun3 version of Linux is still somewhat alpha and Solaris would be a nightmare (imagine Win95 on a 386SX-16). NetBSD'd probably be the choice. For more info on the machine, search for the "sun hardware faq", and you might look into the "suns at home" mailing list. From william at ans.net Sat Oct 4 21:44:28 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul In-Reply-To: <199710050230.VAA23380@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Message-ID: > You actually don't NEED a keyboard and mouse. You can hook up a dumb > terminal (or computer running a com program) on Serial port A and it'll > default to using that port as console. Or you can use the machine over the network to an X-terminal. Actually, most Sun-3s end up as X-terminals... > OSes that'll run on the machine at NetBSD, SunOS, Linux(?) and > older versions of Solaris(?). The very first versions of Solaris (a superset of SunOS. Solaris equals SunOS plus OpenWindows) does support the Sun-3 and Sun-3x architectures. > somewhat alpha and Solaris would be a nightmare (imagine Win95 on a > 386SX-16). The problem is that Sun-3/50s have only 4 meg internally - not much for a Solaris machine, especially one that may be running without a local disk. Some Sun-3/50s have a third party memory board that increases the RAM to 12 megs - with an increase in performance. Still, the things are not fast - they were built to be low cost network machines, like the later SPARCstations ELC and SLC. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Oct 4 21:52:41 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.00694f60@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: Those two M6800 Programmers Reference Cards from Sphere that I posted here a week or so back are now spoken for. Apparently there is not much call for ancient M6800 micro stuff, as I only got one response. I suppose if they were from the 8080 side of the fence, things would be different. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Oct 4 22:01:34 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.0068f1ec@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > I just passed on the optical mouse and some keyboards for the Sun's. Passing on the optical mice or keyboards (type 3 or 4) is no great shakes. However... Passing on Sun optical mouse pads for type 3 or 4 mice is a crime punishable by death. They are unique _two_ color pads (the horizontal stripes are a different color from the verticle ones) that Sun does not make anymore (contrary to Sun Direct's sales people, the pads they sell are for the normal type 5 mice). In short, the things are getting quite rare. > I will > be going back next Saturday to pick up some other things I will see if they > still have them. You will need a shoebox (has the HD) to really do anything > other then run the build in diagnostic. I get back to you You can boot the thing off a network - no local disk required. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Oct 4 22:10:33 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Fix your TRS-80 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a few manuals I do not need (never did, actually): Service Manual, TRS-80 Model 4 (26-1067/8/9) Service Manual, TRS-80 Model 3 (26-1061/2/3) * Service Manual, Expansion Interface (26-1140) TRS-80 Microcomputer Technical Reference Handbook Racal-Milgo Omnimode 48D Reference Manual, Preliminary All are in decent shape, except *, that has minor water damage. Is there interest out there? William Donzelli william@ans.net From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Oct 4 22:29:05 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul In-Reply-To: <199710050230.VAA23380@saucer.cc.umr.edu> References: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Oct 4, 97 05:16:05 pm Message-ID: >> >> Regarding the Sun machine, it's a workstation-style case with a 17" >>(or >> 19"??) monitor attached to a base. It has an Ethernet port, 2 serial ports, >> and a SCSI port. The monitor has a DB9 connection, and the keyboard is a >>DB15. >> Unfortunately, there was no keyboard/mouse and no monitor cable. Can anyone >> help me out with these parts? >> > >You actually don't NEED a keyboard and mouse. You can hook up a dumb >terminal (or computer running a com program) on Serial port A and it'll >default to using that port as console. You may or may not need to take >out the graphics adapter (or is it built-in on the 3/50? I can't >remember). The port runs at 9600 baud, with 7E1 prefered over 8N1, but I >think both work. The graphics adapter is built in, but the serial terminal should work. As I recall, the original poster is also missing the monitor cable. IIRC, the cable is just a DB9M-to DB9M, straight through. >OSes that'll run on the machine at NetBSD, SunOS, Linux(?) and >older versions of Solaris(?). Although the Sun3 version of Linux is still >somewhat alpha and Solaris would be a nightmare (imagine Win95 on a >386SX-16). NetBSD'd probably be the choice. The only version of Solaris which might have run on a Sun 3 would be 1.0. The last version of SunOS to run on a Sun 3 was 4.1.1_U1. A couple of things to remember here, you've got a fairly slow 68020 system (20 mhz?) with 4MB of RAM. The only memory upgrades were *real* expensive and real obscure. OS-wise, your best bets would either be to find a copy of SunOS or to run either NetBSD or OpenBSD. As for hooking up a hrd disk, you could always run it diskless and netboot from another Unix box. FYI, the preferred use for 3.50's these days is to run them as X terminals using a stripped down kernel. >For more info on the machine, search for the "sun hardware faq", and you >might look into the "suns at home" mailing list. Try http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah <<>> From mhop at mail.snip.net Sat Oct 4 23:59:28 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: finally found: Your Computer Message-ID: <19971005050613670.AAA68@computer-name> I'm overwhelmed at how many want this computer. I just wanted to let you all know that I am still trying to decide who gets it, and I'm slow at making decisions like that, so hang on guys. mhop@snip.net From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Oct 5 01:31:38 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Sat, 4 Oct 1997 22:52:41 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199710050631.XAA15856@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli writes: > Apparently there is not much call for ancient M6800 micro stuff, as I only > got one response. I suppose if they were from the 8080 side of the fence, > things would be different. As I recall you wanted some sort of justification and I really couldn't think of anything beyond "yeah, I'd like to get a look at that" -- really I figured you would find other respondents who could offer it better homes. I do have some 6800 stuff (not Sphere, Smoke Signal Broadcasting) but also have the manuals for it and probably have a book or two around somewhere with the 6800 instruction set. I guess it's time for one of those questions I still don't have a good answer for. Where the foo has all the SS-50 stuff gone? Or is it still hiding? Or is it just not here in Sillycon Valley? I have a couple of SS-50 systems in my collection. Depending on how you look at it, the SSB Chieftain may be the system that started me off collecting, though I really bought it with the idea that it was all put together out of commonly-available parts that I could replace if I let the magic smoke out while teaching myself hardware hackery. (I never got the appropriate round tuit, and am still lacking a proper appreciation of electronics.) Oh, and it was another few years before I finally admitted to myself that what I was about was collecting old computers. You know, the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem....[1] And, well, last week I saw the first SS-50 stuff I've seen up for grabs since I moved to Sillycon Valley seven-plus years ago. I recognized it as SS-50 at a distance, but it had already been stripped: all that was there was the chassis and power supply, with the motherboard, baud rate generator, and a couple of serial cards. All Gimix stuff but that's all that was there of it. Even the front plate from the case was missing. Well, I left it there.[2] When I went back for it today I got there a little bit past closing time. I expect it's still there, and will go back for it again on Monday. -Frank McConnell [1] "Well, I've filled this storage closet...I guess I'm gonna have to rent another one." Somehow I don't think this is the sort of "admitting I have a problem" that will lead to recovery. [2] No, I won't write about why I did that. Suffice it to say I felt pressed for time, and when I think about the time my colleague in this endeavor wasted before and after I am *still* seeing a little red.[3] [3] Insert a smiley after every third word if you think that helps. From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 03:49:52 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Good Day In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.00694f60@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: You know, I used to be guilty of this same thing, and feel like a total putz for having to say this, but John, it is not necessary to report to us every single item you pick up. We all get stuff and, quite frankly, if everyone here simply posted what they found and didn't actually talk about it, you'd have one HELL of a boring discussion. So, thanks but no thanks for the updates. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well today made up for a slow week, got the following items: > Tandy 1400 LT > 2-IBM 8573 386 portables one works the other is for parts > NCR model 1002-6000 computer > HP 83 and a 85 > Corona luggable model PPC-21 > Informer model 207 with carrying case > Fluke 8088 interface POD model 900A-8088 > Logical QUV-T8 UV EPROM ERASER > Black Bell & Howell apple > Sun 4/110 > Atari XE system > SuperBrain II QD > CPT notebook model OC 1000 008 anyone have info on this one ???? > IBM 5322 with two 8" floppies built-in > IBM 3274-31C with 8" diskettes sofeware > Paper tape for PDP8 box says MAG TAPE ROUTINES (Diagnostic) and other paper > tape for the PDP8 and about 10 manuals. > GTEK model 7128 EPROM Programmer. > > It was a good rescue day. Keep computing !! > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Oct 5 06:10:33 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Switched power supplies Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971005071033.0068ca2c@mail.wincom.net> I have several switched power supplies from IBM clones that I would like to try to repair, can anyone suggest a source of a book or schematics for these things? Thanks Charlie Fox From CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com Sun Oct 5 08:43:26 1997 From: CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com (CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Help needed Message-ID: <199710051356.GAA17965@mx3.u.washington.edu> I have an old NCR machine that I would like to get up and running. While I have everything intact what I really need is some way of interfacing it. There are numerous amounts of low density DB15 ports that I think have nothing to do with Ethernet since the spot that is labeled Ethernet is covered up with nothing behind the cover. What can I use to find out what is on this thing. The numbers on the data sticker are: class 3470-MSTD model 0202 serial 36-18259367 tracer 36-002591 Any ideas? I would also like to know where I can find a power supply for an Amiga A500. Charles Oblender From rcini at classic.msn.com Sun Oct 5 09:04:52 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: VAX Unix Question + Thanks Message-ID: Thanks to all who provided info on the Sun 3/50. I can't wait to get it working. I have another question. I finally got a working replacement RD52 drive for my uVAX. The drive passes all tests that I run on it, and was in service previously. Now, what steps do I need to take to get it to be seen by Unix? I tried to "mount" it, but I keep getting some bizarre error that I can't remember at this time. TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com ClubWin! charter member (6) MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking From william at ans.net Sun Oct 5 11:15:42 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:11 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: <199710050631.XAA15856@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > As I recall you wanted some sort of justification and I really > couldn't think of anything beyond "yeah, I'd like to get a look at > that" -- really I figured you would find other respondents who could > offer it better homes. There is a reason I did that. In a previous giveaway, NSFnet stuff, I was flooded by lots of people simply wanting the tape drives and nothing else (there was one exception). This did not make me very happy, as I felt that many of the respondants did not care about where these drives came from, rather that they were free drives. Much of this old NSFnet stuff (there is more free stuff to come - I unearthed some of the OOB modems, useful when the network crashed) really does have far more historical value than actual value. These machines (the RS/6000s with appropriate other things), numbering 75 or so, were the "Internet" for some time, and fuelled its explosive growth thru the first part of the 1990s, until the other ISPs started to appear. I am not saying that the Sphere papers are of real historical significance - the company simply did not last very long, and in my opinion, was a producer of junk - but anything Sphere is very rare. Speaking of NSFnet stuff, I may be able to get some of the really old stuff, when the network was built with RTs, token rings, and 56 K DSUs. If I can get one of the old RTs, would the Vintage Computer Festival people be interested as a door prize? > I guess it's time for one of those questions I still don't have a good > answer for. Where the foo has all the SS-50 stuff gone? Or is it still > hiding? Or is it just not here in Sillycon Valley? I have seen very little as well. That says something, as the boards tend to really stick out in the crowd. They never reached the popularity of the S-100 stuff, and was probably made in quantities much smaller than just about every other bus. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Oct 5 12:22:26 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone Message-ID: <199710051722.AA08023@world.std.com> I guess it's time for one of those questions I still don't have a good <> answer for. Where the foo has all the SS-50 stuff gone? Or is it still <> hiding? Or is it just not here in Sillycon Valley? SS50 was fairly popular and tended to build up into solid systems. The people that used them were not hardware hacks and tended more towards software and applications for their box. I have no idea where they went save for if I tripped over one I'd keep it as they were good machines. three commercial busses STD(z80), multibus intel processors(and z80) and VME bus which was motorola cpus. It highlights the fundemental differences between the motorola and intel designs. The 6502 is fundamentally motorola interface and bus FYI. The Apple by default also created an aftermarket bus standard for the slots it had. Other busses that lasted a moment: Altair 680 (6800 based), digital group, ti99/4a expansion. There were others I'm sure. Allison From marvin at rain.org Sun Oct 5 13:01:32 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Good Day References: Message-ID: <3437D5FC.674DE8ED@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > You know, I used to be guilty of this same thing, and feel like a total > putz for having to say this, but John, it is not necessary to report to us > > every single item you pick up. We all get stuff and, quite frankly, if > everyone here simply posted what they found and didn't actually talk about > > it, you'd have one HELL of a boring discussion. So, thanks but no > thanks for the updates. Hi Sam and John, I tend to disagree about reporting the finds we make. That is one way *I* try to keep in touch with not only what might still be out there, but in what quantities. From a collectors standpoint, I feel it is valuable information! I also like to know the prices these things are being picked up for as it puts a perspective on things I find for sale. So thanks John FOR the updates! From marvin at rain.org Sun Oct 5 13:05:18 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Switched power supplies References: <3.0.2.32.19971005071033.0068ca2c@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3437D6DE.3E9A5319@rain.org> Charles E. Fox wrote: > I have several switched power supplies from IBM clones that I > would like > to try to repair, can anyone suggest a source of a book or schematics for > these things? Take a look at the IBM tech reference manual as one of them (don't recall which one, XT?) does has schematics for theirs. Also as far as trying to repair them, the common failures I have found are the switching transistors going bad and the 10w or so power resistor opening up. The rest I haven't taken the time to fix :). From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Oct 5 14:28:20 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Help needed In-Reply-To: CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com's message of 5 Oct 1997 09:43:26 EDT References: <199710051356.GAA17965@mx3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199710051928.MAA10442@daemonweed.reanimators.org> CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com writes: > I have an old NCR machine that I would like to get up and running. > [...] There are numerous amounts of low density DB15 ports > that I think have nothing to do with Ethernet since the spot that is > labeled Ethernet is covered up with nothing behind the cover. I'd guess that those 15-pin connectors are the serial ports. If you don't turn up the pinout, holler, I have an adapter cable at the office (used to use it to hook an HP 700/22 to one) and could ohm it out one of these days (i.e. it'll go on my copious free time list for when I find where I packed the cable when we re-carpeted the offices a few weeks back). -Frank McConnell From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 14:48:03 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I am not saying that the Sphere papers are of real historical significance > - the company simply did not last very long, and in my opinion, was a > producer of junk - but anything Sphere is very rare. Sphere did make junk, and yes it is very rare. I'd be curious to know if anyone actually has a Sphere computer. > Speaking of NSFnet stuff, I may be able to get some of the really old > stuff, when the network was built with RTs, token rings, and 56 K DSUs. If > I can get one of the old RTs, would the Vintage Computer Festival people > be interested as a door prize? Perhaps for a future year :) In the very least it would be nice to have one for the exhibition. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 15:09:39 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COOL! I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. I have some questions. First, I'm assuming mine is a later revision because the motherboard has a date of 1990 on it. The CPU is a 68040. All my simm slots are filled up. How much memory does this mean it has? Now, I can't get the damn thing to boot up, because I can't figure out where to plug the keyboard into. I know this sounds stupid and all, but the keyboard connector is a round mini-DIN type with a peg in the center. The two connectors on the back that look like it would fit in (labeled 'A' and 'B') don't have a hole in the center for the peg to fit into, so they obviously aren't for the keyboard. Where does the keyboard go? Also, this looks like it has a hard drive in it, and it also has some sort of removable carthridge mass storage device in the front. It looks like it might fit a CD-ROM carthridge. Is this the case? I'd like to end this message with a public service announcement: Stupid People Should Not Be Allowed to Have Old Computers There was this lady selling this huge, desk-based computer system of some type. It had like a 21"x21" monitor, a full keyboard, a couple extra keypads with numbers and buttons and stuff, it had a 8" drive built into the desk, and it was some sort of testing system for something. I forgot what it was called an all that, but anyway, this lady, as stupid as they come, wanted $10,000 for this thing. Ok, now I know sometimes people just don't know what stuff is worth, but I'm sorry, nobody is going to pay $10,000 for an old computer system, I don't care how big and impressive it looks, and especially NOT at a swap meet. So I would like to have a law passed that says "Stupid people shall not be allowed to have old computers". It will be called the Stupid People with Computers Act. Any help on the NeXT cube would be appreciated. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Sun Oct 5 15:10:35 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Sphere did make junk, and yes it is very rare. I'd be curious to know if > anyone actually has a Sphere computer. Actually, I have 2 1/2 of them. The 1/2 of one has not been built yet. I am not going to build it. Junk? Yes! Sphere did not need no stinkin' backplane. Ribbon cable with dip headers to connect the (generally) four boards is good enough! William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Oct 5 12:41:35 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199710052139.RAA28803@mail.cgocable.net> > > COOL! > > I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. > > I have some questions. First, I'm assuming mine is a later revision > because the motherboard has a date of 1990 on it. The CPU is a 68040. > All my simm slots are filled up. How much memory does this mean it has? > > Now, I can't get the damn thing to boot up, because I can't figure out > where to plug the keyboard into. I know this sounds stupid and all, but > the keyboard connector is a round mini-DIN type with a peg in the center. > The two connectors on the back that look like it would fit in (labeled 'A' > and 'B') don't have a hole in the center for the peg to fit into, so they > obviously aren't for the keyboard. Where does the keyboard go? > > Also, this looks like it has a hard drive in it, and it also has some sort > of removable carthridge mass storage device in the front. It looks like > it might fit a CD-ROM carthridge. Is this the case? > > I'd like to end this message with a public service announcement: > > Stupid People Should Not Be Allowed to Have Old Computers > > There was this lady selling this huge, desk-based computer system of some > type. It had like a 21"x21" monitor, a full keyboard, a couple extra > keypads with numbers and buttons and stuff, it had a 8" drive built into > the desk, and it was some sort of testing system for something. I forgot > what it was called an all that, but anyway, this lady, as stupid as they > come, wanted $10,000 for this thing. Ok, now I know sometimes people just > don't know what stuff is worth, but I'm sorry, nobody is going to pay > $10,000 for an old computer system, I don't care how big and impressive it > looks, and especially NOT at a swap meet. So I would like to have a law > passed that says "Stupid people shall not be allowed to have old > computers". It will be called the Stupid People with Computers Act. > > Any help on the NeXT cube would be appreciated. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > Sam, Look everywhere to find the keyboard port and the keyboard IS the power switch! I think one of the key is that purpose. NeXT is made to be simple and at same time POWERful. Jason D. From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 5 18:58:10 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube References: Message-ID: <34382992.84@worldnet.att.net> Sam Ismail wrote: I agree Stupid people should not be allowed to have old computers but IF they do they should let somebody else sell it for them. I've seen a TI 99/4A at $150; I laughed and left. Francois PS: Sorry I can't help on the NeXT. > I'd like to end this message with a public service announcement: > > Stupid People Should Not Be Allowed to Have Old Computers > > There was this lady selling this huge, desk-based computer system of some > type. It had like a 21"x21" monitor, a full keyboard, a couple extra > keypads with numbers and buttons and stuff, it had a 8" drive built into > the desk, and it was some sort of testing system for something. I forgot > what it was called an all that, but anyway, this lady, as stupid as they > come, wanted $10,000 for this thing. Ok, now I know sometimes people just > don't know what stuff is worth, but I'm sorry, nobody is going to pay > $10,000 for an old computer system, I don't care how big and impressive it > looks, and especially NOT at a swap meet. So I would like to have a law > passed that says "Stupid people shall not be allowed to have old > computers". It will be called the Stupid People with Computers Act. > > Any help on the NeXT cube would be appreciated. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Sun Oct 5 18:04:55 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Also, this looks like it has a hard drive in it, and it also has some sort > of removable carthridge mass storage device in the front. It looks like > it might fit a CD-ROM carthridge. Is this the case? It is for an MO (magneto-optical) cartridge. I do not think it is one of the standards (if there is such a thing for MOs and WORMs). The NeXT cube certainly is a neat box, and is probably one of the best looking machines ever made. The inclusion of the MO drive and _no_ harddrive in the first models was a really stupid move on Jobs' part (ever notice that he does that from time to time?), as it really made the machines' disk access painfully slow. His original idea was that the MO drive was to be the entire "world" for the user, so one could carry around a cartridge and instantly turn any NeXT cube into their own machine. Obviously, later models did include hard drives. > I forgot > what it was called an all that, but anyway, this lady, as stupid as they > come, wanted $10,000 for this thing. Ok, now I know sometimes people just > don't know what stuff is worth, but I'm sorry, nobody is going to pay > $10,000 for an old computer system, I don't care how big and impressive it > looks, and especially NOT at a swap meet. People like this learn quickly, after many people walk away, sometimes laughing or muttering comments under their breath, and finding that at the end of the day, they still have the machine. Did you go back and check out the price when everyone was packing it in? It probably ended up being far less than $10,000. Then again, some people are so stubborn that they will not read the market, and will keep the machines forever. William Donzelli william@ans.net From pwashburn at pbi.net Sun Oct 5 19:09:58 1997 From: pwashburn at pbi.net (Peter Washburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: FW: NeXT cube References: <3.0.32.19971005150649.00f94420@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <34382C37.466F@pbi.net> The keyboard plugs into the back of the MegaPixel display, then the display is attached to the cube. The A and B ports are the serial ports. They are wierd old ones that, on the 68040 boards are compatible with standard Mac serial cable, though I am not sure if they support hardware flow control. check NeXT Answers at http://www.next.com/ for more detailed info, and pinouts. The removeable cartridge drive is most likely meant for a 230M Magneto-Optical disks of the 5.5" variety. They are somewhat hard to find nowadays. Try looking at http://www.deepspacetech.com/ They have tons of old NeXT stuff, and I believe they have these disks. Another nice feature of these machines, is that they know how to handle removeable media and both DOS and HFS volumes. This means that you can plug a Zip drive into the SCSI port and transfer downloaded files to the NeXT until you get it up and running on the Net itself. The following URL is a terrific archive of NeXT software. ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/next/ Enjoy it. It's a great machine. Regards, Peter Washburn >From: Sam Ismail >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: NeXT cube > >I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. > >I have some questions. First, I'm assuming mine is a later revision >because the motherboard has a date of 1990 on it. The CPU is a 68040. >All my simm slots are filled up. How much memory does this mean it has? > >Now, I can't get the damn thing to boot up, because I can't figure out >where to plug the keyboard into. I know this sounds stupid and all, but >the keyboard connector is a round mini-DIN type with a peg in the center. >The two connectors on the back that look like it would fit in (labeled 'A' >and 'B') don't have a hole in the center for the peg to fit into, so they >obviously aren't for the keyboard. Where does the keyboard go? > >Also, this looks like it has a hard drive in it, and it also has some sort >of removable cartridge mass storage device in the front. It looks like >it might fit a CD-ROM cartridge. Is this the case? > >Any help on the NeXT cube would be appreciated. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 19:31:04 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: <199710052139.RAA28803@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 1997 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Look everywhere to find the keyboard port and the keyboard IS the > power switch! I think one of the key is that purpose. Yes, it is. There is a power key on the keyboard. Ok, I just had a brainstorm and looked on the back of the monitor, and there I found the keyboard port! COOL! I got it up! It's booting right now. Its running a 25Mhz 68040 and it has 16Megs of RAM. I'm stoked! The screen is a little blury though. Now I have to go find the adjustment knobs for the monitor. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 19:40:37 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > It is for an MO (magneto-optical) cartridge. I do not think it is one of > the standards (if there is such a thing for MOs and WORMs). > > The NeXT cube certainly is a neat box, and is probably one of the best > looking machines ever made. The inclusion of the MO drive and _no_ > harddrive in the first models was a really stupid move on Jobs' part (ever > notice that he does that from time to time?), as it really made the > machines' disk access painfully slow. His original idea was that the MO > drive was to be the entire "world" for the user, so one could carry around > a cartridge and instantly turn any NeXT cube into their own machine. A great concept as far as I'm concerned but, as always, way ahead of its time. > > I forgot > > what it was called an all that, but anyway, this lady, as stupid as they > > come, wanted $10,000 for this thing. Ok, now I know sometimes people just > > don't know what stuff is worth, but I'm sorry, nobody is going to pay > > $10,000 for an old computer system, I don't care how big and impressive it > > looks, and especially NOT at a swap meet. > > People like this learn quickly, after many people walk away, sometimes > laughing or muttering comments under their breath, and finding that at the > end of the day, they still have the machine. Did you go back and check out > the price when everyone was packing it in? It probably ended up being far > less than $10,000. No. Actually, she's SO stupid, she won't sell it unless she gets $10,000 for it. And I'm not joking. I've dealt with this lady before. She had one of the Radio Shack data terminals with the thermal peper (basically a copy of the TI Silent 700 data terminal) and I wanted it because it is a fairly unique radio shack product. So I asked her how much she wanted and she said something stupid like $100. I KID YOU NOT! And she was adamant about it too! Of course, as I'm sure you're all well aware, I'm not one to give up so easy and went into full haggle mode. First I asked her, "$100!? Does it run Windows95?" Of course she didn't get it. Anyway, I ended up getting it for $20 (still more than I wanted to pay I might add) only because her husband jumped in and talked some sense into her. Plus there was another shopper there egging her on to go lower. So it was 3 to 1 and I broke her silly ass. I didn't go back at the end of the day because I forgot, and even then this thing is SO big I couldn't get it into my Honda Civic (I mean, this thing would probably crush my puny little automobile). It was very neat though. She says she has two of them, so I'm sure she'll be hauling that stupid thing around in here truck for a couple years. > Then again, some people are so stubborn that they will not read the > market, and will keep the machines forever. I told her if she kept it for 50 more years she might be able to sell it for what she wants for it. She'll probably die before that thing sells. Dumbass. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Oct 5 19:43:50 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: CC> My NeXT cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, my NeXT cube is still booting. It keeps saying... yp: server not responding for domain "mppd.informix.com"; still trying. I guess it's looking for an Informix server. Of course I don't have one on my network. I can't figure out what to do to make it give me a login prompt. I've tried hitting CTRL-C several times and other key sequences (Ctrl-\) to no avail. Anyone know NeXT real well? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jchin at aesprodata.com.au Sun Oct 5 20:16:54 1997 From: jchin at aesprodata.com.au (jchin@aesprodata.com.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software Message-ID: <48256528.0004D30F.00@aesper_ln01.aesprodata.com.au> Manney@nwohio.com - You might care to try the Apple II archive FTP site at: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/ This site has documentation, FAQs, disk images of almost everything that is/was available for the Apple II series of computers, including a section for educational software. cheers, John ------------ A church with which I work was recently given an Apple IIGS (with "Woz" signature on the front, I notice). Does anyone have any children's educational software for Apple that he/she would be willing to donate or sell cheaply? You can get tax credit if you want. Please e-mail me -- manney@nwohio.com -- or contact the church directly: Pastor Leo Stewart Union Avenue Alliance Church 12700 Union Ave. Cleveland OH 44104 (216) 752-6184 Thanks -- you'll be doing inner city kids a great favor. P Manney "Un sot trouve toujours un plus sot qui l'admire." From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Oct 5 22:44:16 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: CC> My NeXT cube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ok, my NeXT cube is still booting. It keeps saying... > >yp: server not responding for domain "mppd.informix.com"; still trying. > >I guess it's looking for an Informix server. Of course I don't have one >on my network. I can't figure out what to do to make it give me a login >prompt. I've tried hitting CTRL-C several times and other key sequences >(Ctrl-\) to no avail. Anyone know NeXT real well? Sam, I hate to say this but when it comes to NeXT your best bet is probably USENET. There is a whole mess of newsgroups related to NeXT, although most talk on them of late is related to Rhapsody. FYI, your cube will still run the current release of OPENSTEP, which is 4.2, I assume this is the last release it will run. You don't want to know what a copy costs. I installed "Prelude to Rhapsody" on a Pentium. It might be based on UNIX, but it's nothing like it. In any case congratulations on your TurboCube, you got a great deal on it! Is it colour or monochrome? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From william at ans.net Sun Oct 5 22:34:45 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A great concept as far as I'm concerned but, as always, way ahead of its > time. Yes, but he should have figured that performance would dive (to new depths) when the user ran out of RAM and the operating system had to swap stuff to disk. MOs have always been painfully slow - probably a magnitude or more slower than the hard disks of the time. At the time, the NeXT machines had quite a bit of memory, but running even just a few big applications would fill it up. Easy solution: place a small local hard disk in the box for system use only. > No. Actually, she's SO stupid, she won't sell it unless she gets $10,000 > for it. And I'm not joking. I've dealt with this lady before. Then she can not be helped. William Donzelli william@ans.net From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Oct 6 00:57:20 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: <343719A1.7C96@worldnet.att.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971005225720.02ede880@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi All: A friend of mine has acquired a Xerox 820. It's a CP/M machine from 1982. Anyone have any info on this? Any collectible value? Any interest? Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Oct 6 01:28:52 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Sun, 5 Oct 1997 12:15:42 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199710060628.XAA00230@daemonweed.reanimators.org> William Donzelli wrote: > > As I recall you wanted some sort of justification and I really > > couldn't think of anything beyond "yeah, I'd like to get a look at > > that" -- really I figured you would find other respondents who could > > offer it better homes. > > There is a reason I did that. Don't worry, I didn't take it personally! It's just that all too often, I can't promise much better for an artifact than that I'll look at it, stick it in a folder and then in a file box in my storage closet. I'm not real happy about that. > In a previous giveaway, NSFnet stuff, > I was flooded by lots of people simply wanting the tape drives and nothing > else (there was one exception). This did not make me very happy, as I felt > that many of the respondants did not care about where these drives came > from, rather that they were free drives. Much of this old NSFnet stuff > (there is more free stuff to come - I unearthed some of the OOB modems, > useful when the network crashed) really does have far more historical > value than actual value. These machines (the RS/6000s with appropriate > other things), numbering 75 or so, were the "Internet" for some time, > and fuelled its explosive growth thru the first part of the 1990s, until > the other ISPs started to appear. Yeah, I remember the RS/6000 episode, it was shortly after I subscribed to the list. I have to admit that I was thinking about those RS/6000s too. But what I was thinking were the somewhat more mundane questions of how best to get one out here to California, where I would put it once it got here, and what I would do with it. See comment above about the storage closet; I have way too much stuff there already. Well, with a sufficient number I would be more inclined to put 'em in use for their intended purpose -- moving IP datagrams around. But there's probably newer hardware to do that sort of thing while not needing as much space, cooling, and/or electricity. OOB modems? Is OOB a brand name or an abbreviation for "out of band"? > I am not saying that the Sphere papers are of real historical significance > - the company simply did not last very long, and in my opinion, was a > producer of junk - but anything Sphere is very rare. Yep, and I really couldn't justify (to myself) being selfish about it. > Speaking of NSFnet stuff, I may be able to get some of the really old > stuff, when the network was built with RTs, token rings, and 56 K DSUs. If > I can get one of the old RTs, would the Vintage Computer Festival people > be interested as a door prize? Aiyeee, token things! Those also sound interesting, both because they're RTs (another thing I'd like to dink with, someday) and because of what they did. Speaking of old Internet stuff...how many copies of the BBN report 1822 (on the host-IMP interface) do you think are floating around out there? Wollongong (the mysterious office that I have alluded to in other posts) had at least two and was preparing to toss both of them, I think I steered one back toward the library and snagged the other for my collection. Back to SS-50: > I have seen very little as well. That says something, as the boards tend > to really stick out in the crowd. They never reached the popularity of the > S-100 stuff, and was probably made in quantities much smaller than just > about every other bus. I've found something else that sticks out in a crowd: I/O cards for the HP 2100-family machines. (No, I haven't forgot about pulling those manuals for you and Tony, just haven't cleared the space and time to really go through them.) Today I picked up a TTY I/O MUXR card. The etched part number is 12584-60136. No manual, but still in its bag. Date-codes on ICs seem to be 7106, 7123, 7122, 7303. $0.50. -Frank McConnell From groberts at mitre.org Mon Oct 6 06:41:00 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: CC> My NeXT cube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971006074100.0081ae40@mail90> At 05:43 PM 10/5/97 -0700, Sam wrote: > >Ok, my NeXT cube is still booting. It keeps saying... > >yp: server not responding for domain "mppd.informix.com"; still trying. > I can't figure out what to do to make it give me a login >prompt. the machine had previously been a client in a NIS (Network Information Service, formerly "Yellow Pages") domain on whatever network it was installed on (obviously at informix.com). (strange that they didn't wipe the disk before letting this out of the door!) i'm not a NeXToid but assuming Mach works approximately like any other flavor of UNIX you'll need to boot "single user" to modify the appropriate boot scripts. best bet would seem to be to get the original installation media and boot from it. if you can get to a boot ROM prompt (is there such a thing on a NeXT cube?) then there's probably a single-user switch on the boot command (e.g. a-la Sun's boot -s). i'm sure there are news groups out there with dozens of folks who could answer this one. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From william at ans.net Mon Oct 6 06:51:19 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:12 2005 Subject: Sphere papers gone In-Reply-To: <199710060628.XAA00230@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Don't worry, I didn't take it personally! It's just that all too > often, I can't promise much better for an artifact than that I'll look > at it, stick it in a folder and then in a file box in my storage > closet. I'm not real happy about that. That seems quite reasonable. > I have to admit that I was thinking about those RS/6000s too. But what > I was thinking were the somewhat more mundane questions of how best to get > one out here to California, where I would put it once it got here, and > what I would do with it. The things are big - they live in the standard 0.75 x 1 x 1.5 meter IBM box (sometimes known as a 9309) and weigh several hundred pounds. Shipping to California would be expensive. Oddly enough, the two San Francisco machines were shipped to RCS/RI. The only other California machines (now gone) were based in the Los Angeles area. > Well, with a sufficient number I would be more inclined to put 'em in > use for their intended purpose -- moving IP datagrams around. But > there's probably newer hardware to do that sort of thing while not > needing as much space, cooling, and/or electricity. The routing is still very impressive - some of the people around here say they are still the fastest routers made, but suffer in that they are huge and can only deal with 32,000 networks. IBM decided not to get into the routing business (the NSF machines have "Experimental IBM Router" tags on them) - a shame, as it was nice to have a router that was also a real unix machine. > OOB modems? Is OOB a brand name or an abbreviation for "out of band"? Exactly. And more fun to say than "out of band". > Aiyeee, token things! Those also sound interesting, both because > they're RTs (another thing I'd like to dink with, someday) and because > of what they did. For those interested, I think there is a short writeup about the system in the RT FAQ floating around on the net. > Speaking of old Internet stuff...how many copies of the BBN report > 1822 (on the host-IMP interface) do you think are floating around out > there? Actual paper copies? I do not know. > I've found something else that sticks out in a crowd: I/O cards for the > HP 2100-family machines. Stick out because of the gold? Those boards sure are shiney. They probably have several dollars worth of gold on the things, making them attractive to the scrappers - maybe that is why I never run into any. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Oct 6 13:10:30 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Good Day Message-ID: <9709068761.AA876168702@compsci.powertech.co.uk> John R. Keys Jr. Wrote: > Well today made up for a slow week, got the following items: [...] > IBM 3274-31C with 8" diskettes sofeware I'm sure you'll have fun with all your finds, but this is the one that caught my eye. Last week (?) someone was asking questions along the lines of what the heck does one do with an IBM 3278? The answer is, plug it into this. Neither is much use without the other! I suggest the two of you get together over this... The 3274 is called a "terminal controller". It is not per se a computer, although I think it may have had microprocessors and things in it. The floppy drives were for saving and loading configuration data (along the lines of Port 1 a 3278, port 2 is a 3299 with 8 3278s hung off it, port 3 is a printer etc...) It multiplexes terminals and things to an IBM mainframe channel. While the 3278 and its relatives use the IBM SNA protocol over 93 ohm co-ax, the 3274 can AFAIK connect over an ordinary serial line. In which case all you need to do is write drivers for whatever machine you choose as the host... Happy hacking! From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Oct 6 13:15:16 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Temple Univ. haul Message-ID: <9709068761.AA876169062@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Passing on Sun optical mouse pads for type 3 or 4 mice is a crime > punishable by death. They are unique _two_ color pads (the horizontal > stripes are a different color from the verticle ones) that Sun does not > make anymore (contrary to Sun Direct's sales people, the pads they sell > are for the normal type 5 mice). What's unique about the sun mousemats? Two-colour ones were made by several people. I need one for my IBM 5277 mouse :-( I was going to use one off a Silicon Graphics Iris, which appears to be the same two colours I remember from IBM, but it has vanished somewhere in my house. I have seen others with different colours (red and blue instead of yellow and blue) on a coarser resolution. These may have been near Sun machines, I can't remember. I ask merely from curiosity... Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Oct 6 11:04:47 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Switched power supplies In-Reply-To: <3437D6DE.3E9A5319@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > > I have several switched power supplies from IBM clones that I > > would like > > to try to repair, can anyone suggest a source of a book or schematics for > > these things? > > Take a look at the IBM tech reference manual as one of them (don't recall > which one, XT?) does has schematics for theirs. Also as far as trying to Are you sure? _None_ of my IBM TechRefs (I have : PC, XT, AT (2 vols), O&A (2 vols), Scientific, EGA, PC-jr) have any PSU schematics at all. Well, the PC-jr PSU card is there, as is the schematic of the professional monitor PSU (the CGA monitor PSU is missing...). Horrowitz and Hill 'The Art of Electronics' has the Tandy 2000 PSU schematic in the 2nd edition (silver cover), along with a circuit description. The best source I've found for SMPS operation/repair is 'Television' magazine. This is a UK magazine for TV service engineers, and has a lot of useful hints. Most SMPS's work the same way, so if you can fix the one in a TV, you can do computer ones as well. > repair them, the common failures I have found are the switching transistors > going bad and the 10w or so power resistor opening up. The rest I haven't > taken the time to fix :). When the chopper fails, it's worth looking for other faults that caused that. Things like : Snubber capacitor gone O/C (VT100's are famous for this IMHO) Shorted turns in the transformer. A 'ringing' tester is useful here. Base resistor gone high, or its parallel capacitor gone O/C Collector current similation resistor gone high (TDA4600-based PSUs are famous for this - and they do turn up in some computers, like the Tatung Einstein). Other common faults are : Mains rectifier diodes gone O/C or S/C (in the latter case the fuse will blow) Startup components (resistors/capacitors) failed (PSU won't start, but if you can get it going, it will keep running) Output capacitors gone O/C or with high ESR. This causes spikes (of a few volts) on the output lines, which generally trips the crowbar. I've had this one several times. Boschert 2-stage PSUs have an unpleasant and common failure mode that kills all 3 choppers, the control IC, several small transistors, some passives, and the PCB tracks. I can provide details if anyone's interested. > > -tony From engine at chac.org Mon Oct 6 11:04:13 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971006090245.00eee7d0@pop.batnet.com> I have received a phone call from a guy in San Luis Obispo CA (no e-mail) who wants to sell a Timex Sinclair 1000 -- complete including the 16K expansion module -- at a swap meet. Like many people who are peripheral to the community, he has a somewhat inflated idea of what this treasure is worth, so I figure the best education is to just send him to the swap meet. Anybody know of any close to him? TIA __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Mon Oct 6 11:04:05 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> Status of Apple Library Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971006083345.00eedce0@pop.batnet.com> I just got the voicemail of one of my contacts at Apple which said that the Apple Library was "permanently closed." There was a pretty decent collection of Apple hardware in that room, among other things. The good side is that Jane Oros, the head librarian, is a very responsible person (and I have a call in to her now.) The non-good side is that, as we know, Apple is now in the hands of senior management who are convinced that the history of their company is nothing but a drag on their energies. I would appreciate hearing from anybody on this list who is also an Apple employee and can say more about pertinent current events there. Any other discussion also welcome, of course. TIA! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Oct 6 11:24:56 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 Message-ID: <199710061624.LAA27210@sunflower.com> Well there is a company that sells them new for 30.00 so..... so much for any inflation beyond that. If anyone wants that link let me know. ---------- > From: Kip Crosby > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: CC> TS 1000 > Date: Monday, October 06, 1997 11:04 AM > > I have received a phone call from a guy in San Luis Obispo CA (no e-mail) > who wants to sell a Timex Sinclair 1000 -- complete including the 16K > expansion module -- at a swap meet. Like many people who are peripheral to > the community, he has a somewhat inflated idea of what this treasure is > worth, so I figure the best education is to just send him to the swap meet. > Anybody know of any close to him? > > TIA > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 11:50:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 References: <3.0.32.19971006090245.00eee7d0@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <343916DF.99CD53F0@rain.org> Kip Crosby wrote: > I have received a phone call from a guy in San Luis Obispo CA (no e-mail) > who wants to sell a Timex Sinclair 1000 -- complete including the 16K > expansion module -- at a swap meet. Like many people who are peripheral > to > the community, he has a somewhat inflated idea of what this treasure is > worth, so I figure the best education is to just send him to the swap > meet. > Anybody know of any close to him? There is a swap meet at Nipomo (20 minutes drive from SLO) and that is the best one that I know of in that area. My guess is that he would be lucky to find someone to pay $10 for the thing at a swap meet. The new kit price (minus memory modele) is $30 plus shipping from a company in NYC. They seem to go for between $15 - $25 opn ebay. From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 12:24:47 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Switched power supplies References: Message-ID: <34391EDE.F318DAEA@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > Take a look at the IBM tech reference manual as one of them (don't > recall > > which one, XT?) does has schematics for theirs. Also as far as trying > to > > Are you sure? _None_ of my IBM TechRefs (I have : PC, XT, AT (2 vols), O&A > > (2 vols), Scientific, EGA, PC-jr) have any PSU schematics at all. Well, > the PC-jr PSU card is there, as is the schematic of the professional > monitor PSU (the CGA monitor PSU is missing...). I just checked and it may have been that the Professional monitor PS was the one I used. From what I can remember (8 - 10 years ago), I had several IBM power supplies that needed to be fixed and I searched through my tech refs for a schematic. The one I found had an identical (or almost identical) front end (before the transformer) and that gave me enough info to fix the things. From spc at armigeron.com Mon Oct 6 12:43:45 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: NeXT cube In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Oct 5, 97 01:09:39 pm Message-ID: <199710061743.NAA23653@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Sam Ismail once stated: > > > COOL! > > I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. > > I have some questions. First, I'm assuming mine is a later revision > because the motherboard has a date of 1990 on it. The CPU is a 68040. > All my simm slots are filled up. How much memory does this mean it has? > > Now, I can't get the damn thing to boot up, because I can't figure out > where to plug the keyboard into. I know this sounds stupid and all, but > the keyboard connector is a round mini-DIN type with a peg in the center. > The two connectors on the back that look like it would fit in (labeled 'A' > and 'B') don't have a hole in the center for the peg to fit into, so they > obviously aren't for the keyboard. Where does the keyboard go? > Mouse plugs into keyboard. Keyboard plugs into monitor. Monitor plugs into Cube. Cube plugs into wall. Simple. -spc (And no rat's net of cables) From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 6 14:06:07 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 In-Reply-To: <343916DF.99CD53F0@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > There is a swap meet at Nipomo (20 minutes drive from SLO) and that is the > best one that I know of in that area. My guess is that he would be lucky to > find someone to pay $10 for the thing at a swap meet. The new kit price > (minus memory modele) is $30 plus shipping from a company in NYC. They seem > to go for between $15 - $25 opn ebay. TS1000 are so fairly common (of course, in my area) that I'd say $5 for each is being generous. I'd say $10 for a TS1000 with a 16K RAM module is a decent price. Even new, $30 is a bit steep. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From NOSPALMchemif at mbox.queen.it Mon Oct 6 23:18:32 1997 From: NOSPALMchemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <3439B818.2E00@mbox.queen.it> Ciao Sam, Sam Ismail wrote: > Here is the exhibition list showing the people who have currently > volunteered to do informational write-ups for each system. > > In case you missed the first request, I am asking for help in coming up > with an informational, one-page write-up that will be displayed next to > each computer in the exhibition at the Vintage Computer Festival. > Hello Fellow Classic Computer Collecting Nerds. > I would like to have a short, one-page write-up for each > machine on display giving summary information about the machine. I > figured there is probably no better resource for general and historical > information on old computers than this discussion group. >Aside from my undying gratitude, anyone who contributes > write-ups will receive a free Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 t-shirt and a > free pass to the show either this year or for whatever year you will be > able to make it out (this WILL be an annual event). > > A list of the systems on display will follow. If you would like to do some > write-ups for a particular system or series of systems, please e-mail me > and I will let you know if a write-up is required for that system. > > > If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what > you want to contribute. Thanks!!! Hi, Sam It's a pleasure to help you in building the tech-sheets to be shown in the Festival near the machines. I have studied your list, and divided in two: for the first I will try to give you extended informations, for the second, I will give the specifications I own, ONLY if required (=if anyone will supply complete infos ). Here follow the first group. > MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP > ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ ----------- Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A R.Romagnoli Atari Atari 520ST 520ST R.Romagnoli Olivetti M10 R.Romagnoli ^^^^^^^^ (obviously) This is the second group: I think that if anyone else has extended info on those, is better he will care instead of me. Anyway i can give short infos like:CPU,Operating System,available configurations,video res.,ports,official price at that period here in Italy. If any info will come about these model, please e-mail wich are missing and I will reply. MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ -------- Altos ACS 8000 if needed Altos ACS 580 only Altos ACS 186 " " Altos 3068 " " Altos 2086 " " Altos 5.X 5.15 " " Altos 5.X 5.5 " " Apple Computer Lisa 2 Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A Atari Atari 130XE 130XE Atari Atari 600XL Home Computer 600XL Atari Atari 800XL 800XL Compaq Portable Data General Data General One 2514A Epson Geneva PX-8 Epson Portable Computer HX-20 IBM Personal Computer 5150 Mattel Electronics Aquarius 5931 Mindset Mindset PC 1 Morrow Designs Pivot Portable I can supply info only abt. Pivot II Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 1 (OCC1) Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 26-5103 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computers and Phonecards Collector chemif@mbox.queen.it ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Oct 6 16:11:16 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 Message-ID: <199710062110.QAA09173@sunflower.com> If you find one that cheap, I'd like one. I only have a TS1500. Any other sinclair you can find for that price or accesories, and I would gladly reimurse you for shipping as well. zx81, TS100, TS2048, TS2068, 2050 modem with case, or just case, {have the modem already} Any printer that works.... ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: CC> TS 1000 > Date: Monday, October 06, 1997 2:06 PM > > On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > There is a swap meet at Nipomo (20 minutes drive from SLO) and that is the > > best one that I know of in that area. My guess is that he would be lucky to > > find someone to pay $10 for the thing at a swap meet. The new kit price > > (minus memory modele) is $30 plus shipping from a company in NYC. They seem > > to go for between $15 - $25 opn ebay. > > TS1000 are so fairly common (of course, in my area) that I'd say $5 for > each is being generous. I'd say $10 for a TS1000 with a 16K RAM module is > a decent price. Even new, $30 is a bit steep. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From krh03 at csufresno.edu Mon Oct 6 09:29:54 1997 From: krh03 at csufresno.edu (Ken Harbit) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 In-Reply-To: <199710062110.QAA09173@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199710062129.OAA09961@lennon.csufresno.edu> Count me in on this too, especially a TS1000 or 2068. > If you find one that cheap, I'd like one. I only have a > TS1500. Any other sinclair you can find for that price or > accesories, and I would gladly reimurse you for shipping as > well. zx81, TS100, TS2048, TS2068, 2050 modem with case, or > just case, {have the modem already} Any printer that works.... > > Ken Harbit krh03@cvip.fresno.com My other computer is a ZX From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 6 12:34:23 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Switched power supplies In-Reply-To: <34391EDE.F318DAEA@rain.org> Message-ID: <199710062132.RAA14185@mail.cgocable.net> > Tony Duell wrote: > > > On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > > > Take a look at the IBM tech reference manual as one of them (don't > > recall > > > which one, XT?) does has schematics for theirs. Also as far as trying > > to > > > > Are you sure? _None_ of my IBM TechRefs (I have : PC, XT, AT (2 vols), O&A > > > > (2 vols), Scientific, EGA, PC-jr) have any PSU schematics at all. Well, > > the PC-jr PSU card is there, as is the schematic of the professional > > monitor PSU (the CGA monitor PSU is missing...). > > I just checked and it may have been that the Professional monitor PS was the > one I used. From what I can remember (8 - 10 years ago), I had several IBM > power supplies that needed to be fixed and I searched through my tech refs > for a schematic. The one I found had an identical (or almost identical) > front end (before the transformer) and that gave me enough info to fix the > things. > I think: those XT power supplies in PC and XT series uses single power transistor which is not used after the dual transistors type since the AT power supplies, and it's not changed much since even in clone ones as well. Also, judge when cost is too much to fix when you can retrofit a superior better quality power supplies out of PS/2 style PSU into the orignal power supple shells, the fans IBM used is way out high quality. Usually 10 percent out of dud power supplies I repair are non-startable even after I find all the duds. Dunno why. Having diffculty ordering the Bob's ESR meter because of being a Canadian. Any suggestions? Jason D. From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Mon Oct 6 16:54:14 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 Message-ID: I've got a second 2068, complete in Box, and I think maybe a cartridge or two. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Harbit [SMTP:krh03@csufresno.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 9:30 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: CC> TS 1000 > > Count me in on this too, especially a TS1000 or 2068. > > > If you find one that cheap, I'd like one. I only have a > > TS1500. Any other sinclair you can find for that price or > > accesories, and I would gladly reimurse you for shipping as > > well. zx81, TS100, TS2048, TS2068, 2050 modem with case, or > > just case, {have the modem already} Any printer that works.... > > > > > > Ken Harbit > krh03@cvip.fresno.com > My other computer is a ZX From fred at weblust.com Mon Oct 6 18:31:35 1997 From: fred at weblust.com (Fred Davis by way of Kip Crosby ) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> FW: Question -- IBM 704 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971006163132.00f255f0@pop.batnet.com> >From: Dave Fafarman >Subject: Question -- IBM 704 > >Hello. I wonder if you might happen to know what the word length (bits) >was for the IBM 704? This was a machine used in the 50s. (Please don't >confuse with a more recent IBM 704 -- apparently the model name has been >recycled after 40 years.) TIA, From scottk5 at ibm.net Mon Oct 6 11:50:16 1997 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Robert Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 References: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.00684d70@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <343916C8.7559@ibm.net> Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD wrote: > >A friend of mine has acquired a Xerox 820. It's a CP/M machine from 1982. > > > >Anyone have any info on this? Any collectible value? Any interest? > > > >Kevin I have an 820-II with all manuals and docs, unfortuneately it is not working ( the harddisk controller or harddisk has gone south!) If you need any information from the manuals, please let me know I will be glad to oblige. Also have a ton of CPM software that came with it, so if you need bootdisks or the like I can help there too. Would you friend like to sell his harddisk controller card and drive perhaps? Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Oct 6 22:16:33 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.00684d70@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > you may have the 820-II the upgrade to the 820 which came out in July 1981. > They could run CP/M, two versions of BASIC, and used Ethernet. How did it "use" ethernet? (Where di it "hook up", etc.) LeS From krh03 at csufresno.edu Mon Oct 6 14:12:28 1997 From: krh03 at csufresno.edu (Ken Harbit) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199710070435.VAA22843@lennon.csufresno.edu> > I've got a second 2068, complete in Box, and I think maybe a cartridge > or two. How much $ are you asking? From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Oct 7 09:46:33 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> TS 1000 Message-ID: Don't need the $$$ (or I shouldn't after my game hits store shelves in a couple weeks). I'm into trading mostly; other classic micros or console stuff I collect. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Harbit [SMTP:krh03@csufresno.edu] > Sent: Monday, October 06, 1997 2:12 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: CC> TS 1000 > > > > I've got a second 2068, complete in Box, and I think maybe a > cartridge > > or two. > > How much $ are you asking? > From prp at hf.intel.com Tue Oct 7 11:20:57 1997 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Question -- IBM 704 References: <199710070702.AAA07314@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <343A6169.71A5@hf.intel.com> Dave, >Hello. I wonder if you might happen to know what the word length (bits) >was for the IBM 704? The IBM 700/7000 scientific computers (701, 704, 709, 7090, 7094, 7044 etc.) had a 36-bit word. Number representation is binary sign/magnitude. From davef at wesco.com Tue Oct 7 11:37:03 1997 From: davef at wesco.com (Dave Fafarman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Question -- IBM 704 Message-ID: <199710071637.JAA19011@spock.wesco.com> Thank you so much, Paul. Much appreciated! -- Dave ========================================================================== From hf.intel.com!prp Tue Oct 7 09:19:49 1997 From: Paul Pierce To: Dave Fafarman , classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question -- IBM 704 Dave, >Hello. I wonder if you might happen to know what the word length (bits) >was for the IBM 704? The IBM 700/7000 scientific computers (701, 704, 709, 7090, 7094, 7044 etc.) had a 36-bit word. Number representation is binary sign/magnitude. From the 704 on the instruction size is 36 bits and there is hardware floating point. It is an accumulator architecture derived from Von Neumann's IAS machine. Programmer visible registers are an accumulator (38 bits), multiplier/quotient register (36 bits) and 3 index registers (15 bits.) It had 8K to 32K words of core memory. Mass storage was magnetic tape or punched cards. Web references: IBM 704 Manual (selected pages) - http://www.cs.virginia.edu/brochure/images/manuals/IBM_704/IBM_704.html Von Neumann and the IAS - http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html Paul Pierce http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Oct 7 14:57:58 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Philips Micron 2001 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971007155758.006868e0@mail.wincom.net> Having just become the proud owner of a 2001, ($ 10.00 Cdn, about $ 7.00 US, delivered.) I have some questions that I hope you fellows can resolve. 1. What have I got, and did I get taken? 2. Although nothing appears to have been removed, I can't find a power transformer in the drive unit. Does anyone know if this used a switched power supply? The outfit has been outside, but no rust. I will let it dry out for a few days before I try plugging anything in. Thanks Charlie Fox From CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com Tue Oct 7 16:09:04 1997 From: CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com (CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <199710072116.OAA16226@mx2.u.washington.edu> I found out from a person in the area that low density DB15 ports if not used for Ethernet are used for a VGA terminal. Any idea where to find one of these things? If you have one that you don't need I wouldn't mind having it. By the way I'm still looking for a power supply for an Amiga A500. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Oct 7 16:24:15 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2066FCBCF@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> VGA uses HD15, not DB15. DB15 is only used on PCs for AUI (obsolete ethernet) and game ports. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com [SMTP:CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 1997 2:09 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Those pesky db15 ports > > I found out from a person in the area that low density > DB15 > ports if not used for Ethernet are used for a VGA terminal. Any idea > where to find one of these things? If you have one that you don't > need > I wouldn't mind having it. By the way I'm still looking for a power > supply for an Amiga A500. From bpvh at primenet.com Tue Oct 7 17:00:02 1997 From: bpvh at primenet.com (Bradley P. Von Haden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software Message-ID: <199710072200.PAA21074@usr02.primenet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971007/103ba0c8/attachment.ksh From CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com Tue Oct 7 16:39:54 1997 From: CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com (CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <199710072206.PAA22399@mx4.u.washington.edu> If you bothered to read a previous letter of mine help needed I'm working on an old NCR machein that has thes DB15 ports that arn't Ethernet and arn't serial but I found out from a very nolagibule person was a port for a VGA terminal the other and most not often mentioned use for them. CL>VGA uses HD15, not DB15. DB15 is only used on PCs for AUI (obsolete CL>ethernet) and game ports. CL>Kai CL>> -----Original Message----- CL>> From: CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com [SMTP:CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com] CL>> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 1997 2:09 PM CL>> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers CL>> Subject: Those pesky db15 ports CL>> CL>> I found out from a person in the area that low density CL>> DB15 CL>> ports if not used for Ethernet are used for a VGA terminal. Any idea CL>> where to find one of these things? If you have one that you don't CL>> need CL>> I wouldn't mind having it. By the way I'm still looking for a power CL>> supply for an Amiga A500. From pcoad at wco.com Tue Oct 7 17:11:34 1997 From: pcoad at wco.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Supnik on Retro Computing, EE380 Gates B03 Wed 4:15 In-Reply-To: <199710072116.OAA16226@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: One of my coworkers let me know about this. It looks to be interesting and worthwhile for anyone in the San Francisco bay area. There is a url for an article under "Instructor Notes" below which has some good stuff in it about an Australian Museum with a nice collection of PDPs. Enjoy, --pec ----------------------------------------------------------------- EE380 Computer Systems Colloquium Fall Quarter 1997-1998 Lecture #3 Date: Wednesday, Oct 8,1997 Time: 4:15-5:30 pm Location: NEC Auditorium (B03) Gates Computer Science Building SITN: Wednesday, 6:45-8:00PM, SITN Channel E3 Internet: Live on the Net! See instructions on the Web page http://www-leland.stanford.edu/class/ee380 ********************************************************************** Speaker: ROBERT M. SUPNIK, Vice President Corporate Research and Advanced Development Digital Equipment Corporpation Title: Retro Computing: Researching the Receding Frontiers of Computers Digital Equipment Corporation's research labs in Palo Alto and Cambridge are the cutting edge of the company's work in advanced computer technology. Responsible for such diverse developments as AltaVista, Millicent, Gigaswitch/ATM, and the Palo Alto Internet Exchange, the labs focus on pushing the frontiers of computers in scalable systems, Internet infrastructure and services, and human-computer interaction. While the researchers chase computing's future, the research manager (in his copious spare time) chases computing's past. Computing's history is of significant educational, historical, and economic value, and it is rapidly being lost. Computing's past is mostly represented by narrative texts and preserved non-functional artifacts; access to working examples is limited to a handful of scattered hobbyists worldwide. This talk will cover (briefly) the work of Digital's research labs but will mostly be devoted to retrocomputing: the art and science of recovering usable examples of computing's past. The talk with cover "computer archaeology" -- the recovery of lost information and data; the role of folklore; the varied merits of restoration and simulation as strategies for preserving the past; and SIMH, the speaker's historical systems simulator, which currently includes eight significant systems with supporting software. About the speaker: ROBERT M. SUPNIK is vice president of Corporate Research and Advanced Development (RAD) in Digital's Corporate Strategy and Technology group. RAD provides Digital with strategic new technologies, competencies and products. In this position, Supnik is responsible for identifying and understanding new technological opportunities and helping Digital apply them for business success. Supnik currently manages Digital's Cambridge Research Laboratory, Network Systems Laboratory, Systems Research Center, and Western Research Laboratory, where he focuses on applications technology, innovative inter-networking systems, systems research, and mainstream, high-performance computer systems. Supnik has been on the vanguard of technology throughout his 20 years at Digital. A Senior Corporate Consultant Engineer, Supnik started the Alpha program, and managed it until first product ship. He also started the MicroVAX chip project, for which he was both project manager and microprogrammer. Supnik was technical director for the Alpha and VAX Systems Group, and group manager for the Semiconductor Engineering Group Microprocessor Development. He also served as product strategist in the CSD/LSI Microprocessor Group, and project manager for the J-11 chip. In 1994, he was promoted to vice president of Technology and Architecture in the Computer Systems Division. Supnik joined Digital in 1977 as a supervisor, then manager, in the Storage Subsystems Group. He holds BS degrees in mathematics and history from MIT, and an MA in history from Brandeis University. In addition to his work at Digital, Supnik is the author of a series of emulators for historically significant minicomputers. Contact information: Bob Supnik Digital Equipment Corporation 111 Powdermill Road MSO2-2/G10 Maynard, MA 01754 Tel: (978) 493-8002 Fax: (978) 493-8024 bob.supnik@digital.com Instructor Notes: You might want to read the article by Maxwell M. Burnet and Robert M. Supnik, Preserving Computing's Past: Restoration and Simulation in the December 1996 Digital Technical Journal, which is on-line at http://www.digital.com/info/DTJN00/. ************************************************************************ * EE380 is the Computer Systems Laboratory Colloquium. The Colloquium * * meets most Wednesdays throughout the normal academic year. The class * * is broadcast over SITN and taped for late viewing in the Engineering * * Library. EE380 is now available live on the Internet! * * * * For additional information please consult the class web page * * http://www-leland.stanford.edu/class/ee380 * ************************************************************************ +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | This message was sent via the Stanford Computer Science Department | | colloquium mailing list. To be added to this list send an arbitrary | | message to colloq-subscribe@cs.stanford.edu. To be removed from this list,| | send a message to colloq-unsubscribe@cs.stanford.edu. For more information,| | send an arbitrary message to colloq-request@cs.stanford.edu. For directions| | to Stanford, check out http://www-forum.stanford.edu | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------xcl+ From dastar at wco.com Tue Oct 7 18:34:15 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software In-Reply-To: <199710072200.PAA21074@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: nOn Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Bradley P. Von Haden wrote: > jchin@aesprodata.com.au wrote: > > >You might care to try the Apple II archive FTP site at: > > > >ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/ > > > >This site has documentation, FAQs, disk images of almost > >everything that is/was available for the Apple II series of > >computers, including a section for educational software. > > If it matters, the Asimov site is a pirate site. > > **** bpvh Internet: bpvh@primenet.com GEnie: B.VONHADEN **** > **** Posted by an Apple IIgs using my own Proterm 3.1 Macro File **** Let me tell you something, bpvh. Its one thing to have this rhetoric spewed all over comp.sys.apple2, but its quite another for you to bring this ideology with you into this discussion. I would prefer and sincerely hope that you leave the anti-piracy dogma to the fools on the usenet. I will say one thing about ftp.apple.asimov.net...if it was a pirate site harboring contemporary commercial software it would have been shut down long ago. The fact is that it carries defunct software for a commercially obsolete computer. If you wish to debate this, PLEASE REPLY TO ME DIRECTLY, and I'll decide whether its worth repsonding to or not. Otherwise, this group is for the discussion of classic computers, and nothing else. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Tue Oct 7 19:55:27 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Hayes Personal Modem 2400 In-Reply-To: <199710060628.XAA00230@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: I was given an interesting 2400 baud modem made by Hayes. It is one of those that plugs into a wall socket (it still needs a POTS line, it is not a power line modem). Does anyone want this thing for postage plus whatever they feel is fair? Do not ask me if it works -I do not know. William Donzelli william@ans.net From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Oct 7 20:17:49 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Update on Altair scans Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2066FCCF6@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Any updates? > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. [SMTP:rcini@msn.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 4:12 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Update on Altair scans > > Hello, all: > > I got a message from my friend with the Altair scans (list > previously posted > here). On Monday, he mailed me a Zip disk filled with scans. It really > makes > me wonder if this guy has a job! Actually, he must work for a > publishing house > or something, somewhere where he has access to high-volume scanners. > > Anyway, when I get this, I'll put together a disk/tape and Fedex > it to Bill > Whitson {Bill: I need your physical address and telephone#} and have > him post > it to the ftp site. > > More to come... > > ------------------------ > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Oct 7 21:56:12 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Power Supplies (was: Re: Those pesky db15 ports) In-Reply-To: <199710072116.OAA16226@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >I wouldn't mind having it. By the way I'm still looking for a power >supply for an Amiga A500. The A500 can also use the powersupply from a A1200 or a C128. If you want to lay out the bucks you can get a new one from http://www.paxtron.com they also have PS's for C-64's. If you have just a normal unexpanded A500 you can get a normal PS, but it it's decked out with an Accelerator, extra RAM, and maybe even Zorro slots or a Hard Drive, you had best shoot for a "Big Foot" Power Supply, also available from Paxtron. On an interesting note, Amiga International announced today that they've licensed someone to sell an Amiga Emulator that will be bundled with AmigaOS 3.1, wierd. Personally I'm about ready to look into building my own power supply that can be used with just about any computer. I've got too many cool systems that don't have power supplies! Anyone have any thoughts on this? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Oct 7 23:39:36 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software In-Reply-To: <199710072200.PAA21074@usr02.primenet.com> Message-ID: >jchin@aesprodata.com.au wrote: > >>You might care to try the Apple II archive FTP site at: >> >>ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/ >> >>This site has documentation, FAQs, disk images of almost >>everything that is/was available for the Apple II series of >>computers, including a section for educational software. > >If it matters, the Asimov site is a pirate site. > >**** bpvh Internet: bpvh@primenet.com GEnie: B.VONHADEN **** >**** Posted by an Apple IIgs using my own Proterm 3.1 Macro File **** Actually a lot of the stuff has been given the OK to be copied by the current copyright holders. WordPerfect for the IIgs comes to mind, Corel has OK'd it's copying for personal use. There is a Web Site somewhere (New Zealand I think), that lists programs that have been verified as OK to copy. I think that's pretty cool. I agree with Sam, this is a discussion on Classic computers, comp.sys.apple2 dogma doesn't belong here. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 8 01:52:34 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971007235232.2b3f93e0@mail.crl.com> At 05:39 PM 10/7/97 EDT, you wrote: >CL>VGA uses HD15, not DB15. DB15 is only used on PCs for AUI (obsolete >CL>ethernet) and game ports. DB15's are used by Mac II's (and related models) for video out. With an adapter, they can use VGA monitors. Perhaps that is what you have? Is there a separate port for a keyboard, or do you believe the DB15 also handles the keyboard? (as in a real terminal) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 8 02:05:34 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971008000530.37af2370@ricochet.net> At 01:52 AM 10/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >DB15's are used by Mac II's (and related models) for video out. With an >adapter, they can use VGA monitors. Perhaps that is what you have? I just noticed (quite by coincidence) that the monitor/keyboard combination for the DEC Rainbow 100 is a DB15. Perchance that's the answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Oct 7 14:14:03 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971003184257.0068a64c@mail.wincom.net> References: Message-ID: <199710080709.DAA00794@smtp.interlog.com> > > Have you ever heard of the Icon computer? > It seems that back in the late '70s the poobahs at the Department of > Education for Ontario (Canada) were upset because incompatable computers > were finding their way into classrooms, and the programs for these C-64s > and Apple ][s could not be used on each other. Being bureaucrats they came > up with a solution: design and build their own computer which would be > installed in all seventy five thousand Ontario classrooms! Naturally this > was designed by a committee, and since it was to be for educational > purposes they consulted with one (1) teacher and no students. > Since it was to be used by everyone from little five year olds in > kindergarten to senior high students they made the beast in one big > chunk,cpu, monitor and keyboard, one size fits all. > Since neither the C-64 or Apple software would run on it they assumed that > programmers would be happy to supply the needs of all grade levels. > Unfortunately by the time the Icon (also widely known as theBionic Beaver) > was introduced in 1983, with the government subsidizing two thirds of the > cost, the school boards found that their one third would buy several C-64s > or an Apple, and would even go a long way toward an XT or a Mac, all of > which had far more software available. > Some of the Icons ended up in high schools, usually as terminals on > networks. I have been trying to get one for my collection, but so far have > only the junction box used to hook them to the server. > > Cheers > Charlie Fox > Hmmm never heard of it. I'll keep my eyes open in my jaunts around the T.O thrift shops and garage sales. How is the museum venture going ? Strangely enough I know of none in the T.O. area. I have heard of one in the Kitchener-Waterloo area. Do you know of others ? ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Oct 7 14:13:55 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 In-Reply-To: <343559D1.4E364CA7@rain.org> Message-ID: <199710080708.DAA00788@smtp.interlog.com> SNIP > > While I was trying to find out why the one I had didn't work, it decided > that it was time to start working again. Wow, love those intermittent > problems. Now, everything seems to be working okay from the processor part, > but I have a display problem. The contrast adjustment has no effect, and > the display will sometimes change its contrast while I am looking at it or > if the main board is mechanically moved. Anyone have any idea what might be > causing this? Thanks. > I have the same problem on my NEC Prospeed LED display. I suspect a grounding problem but haven't had the time to dig inside. I know that a similiar problem on my 1040ST was fixed when I assured adequate ground connection. ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Oct 8 09:42:08 1997 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals Message-ID: <971008103153_-327996657@emout16.mail.aol.com> It wasn't until yesterday's topic of "Those pesky db15 ports" that I remembered a couple of terminals that I hauled home recently. The terminals have a DB15 for both the monitor and keyboard. Anyway, I hauled home a couple of IBM 3101 terminals. They consist of a base unit, a monitor, and a keyboard. From the ID tags they appear to be around 1980 vintage. I have not powered them up, but if anyone is interested in these I could probably run a quick test on them. Mike Thompson From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Oct 8 16:06:12 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals Message-ID: <9709088763.AA876352122@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Mike Thompson wrote: > It wasn't until yesterday's topic of "Those pesky db15 ports" that I > remembered a couple of terminals that I hauled home recently. > The terminals have a DB15 for both the monitor and keyboard. > > Anyway, I hauled home a couple of IBM 3101 terminals. They > consist of a base unit, a monitor, and a keyboard. From the ID > tags they appear to be around 1980 vintage. Unusually for IBM stuff at this date, they are both (a) designed to plug into a mainframe and (b) ASCII. AFAIK, they were used as the system console on some of the big 370 derivatives at that date (4300 series and 3080 series) If I had space, I'd be tempted to offer one a home. But I haven't :-( Philip. PS Are you sure the connectors aren't DA15? From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Oct 8 10:44:28 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: <9709088763.AA876352122@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > If I had space, I'd be tempted to offer one a home. But I haven't :-( You mean I'm not the olnly classiccmp member to have a space problem... Seriously, other than moving (or collecting pocket calculators), is there a cure to having more computers than floorspace for them? > > Philip. > > PS Are you sure the connectors aren't DA15? Almost certainly they are. There is no connector called a DB15 in _any_ catalogue I've looked in. The letter after the 'D' specifies the shell size - from memory, the standard ones are : DE9 (PC serial port, Atari joystick, etc) DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC games port, etc) -- The one we're talking about DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port, etc) DC37 (PC external disk port, Canon CX engine interface, etc) DD50 (Sun SCSI port, etc) The high-density ones are : DE15 (PC VGA monitor) DA?? (Never seen it) DB44 (Never seen it used, but it's in the catalogues) DC62 (PC expansion cabinet, etc) -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Oct 8 17:29:18 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals Message-ID: <9709088763.AA876357163@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > You mean I'm not the olnly classiccmp member to have a space problem... No. Typical house sizes here in the UK mean that all of us UK members have it. I imagine many of the US crowd have the same problem, too. In continental Europe, typical house sizes are larger, but most people live in apartments, so goodness knows what they do! > Seriously, other than moving (or collecting pocket calculators), is there > a cure to having more computers than floorspace for them? If it's just floorspace you're worried about, you can sit them on shelves, furniture, each other... :-) But I've seen your house, so I know your problem is worse than mine, and I envy you your tolerant parents... The solution is for several people in the same area to club together and buy a warehouse, derelict factory or ex-secret wartime government research base. Even an aircraft hangar might do, although the design parameters are not optimal for computer storage. Any takers? (Central or SW England for me, London for Tony) > size - from memory, the standard ones are : > > DE9 (PC serial port, Atari joystick, etc) > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC games port, etc) -- The one we're talking about > DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port, etc) > DC37 (PC external disk port, Canon CX engine interface, etc) > DD50 (Sun SCSI port, etc) > > The high-density ones are : > > DE15 (PC VGA monitor) > DA?? (Never seen it) > DB44 (Never seen it used, but it's in the catalogues) > DC62 (PC expansion cabinet, etc) That's what I thought. Any idea what the 19 pin one on some Macintoshes is called? Philip. From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Oct 8 11:31:55 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Altair Scans Update/Calling Bill Whitson Message-ID: For those who asked: I have tried with no success to contact Bill Whitson to get another address to send the 4mm tape with the Altair Scans (he must have closed his PO Box). The tape is sitting in my office just waiting... Rich Cini/WUGNET From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Oct 8 11:51:25 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: <9709088763.AA876357163@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > You mean I'm not the olnly classiccmp member to have a space problem... > > If it's just floorspace you're worried about, you can sit them on > shelves, furniture, each other... :-) But I've seen your house, so I You can't sit H960's on each other (at least not without a darn tall room :-)). And a lot of hardware doesn't have a nice flat top. And all the furniture/shelves are already covered in bits of hardware, manuals, spares, disk boxes, disk packs, printsets, etc. > The solution is for several people in the same area to club together and > buy a warehouse, derelict factory or ex-secret wartime government > research base. Even an aircraft hangar might do, although the design Problem is, I know collectors who could fill such a building _on their own_. > That's what I thought. Any idea what the 19 pin one on some Macintoshes > is called? I've seen them called DF19 (and DG23), but I don't think it's official. > > Philip. > > -tony From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Oct 8 12:42:01 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> I'm Bummed :-( In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970929110021.009793b0@mail.northernway.net> References: Message-ID: <1C1D123507E5@ifrsys.com> I'm like, totally bummed, people. I've been trying to get my old VIC-20 setup running correctly, and I finally got a couple of 1541's for it. Purchased in 1992, it was the very first computer I ever used that didn't belong to someone else. I'm bummed, because the cornerstone of the whole system, the rare Video-Pak/20 by Data-20 (RIP), gave up the ghost last nite. For those of you who may not know, 40/80 column boards for the Commodore VIC-20 were in favor for a short time around 1982-84. The Video PAK made up for the VIC's 20 column display by generating a 40 or 80 column display. It also added 64k of paged memory. On top of all this, it also had 'dumb terminal' capabilities. Pretty cool for the time. Now 80 column mode dosen't work at all. Damn. 40 is ok, but it kinda defeats the purpose of having the display card: I can get 40 columns on a C= 64. Damn. I haven't been hanging around much in Commodore circles lately, but this is the only VideoPAK/20 I've ever seen. The only other Data-20 product I've ever seen was a VideoPAK/64 and that was in 1988! I don't even have a schematic for the thing. This is one of those times when I just feel like taking everything, flying it into the dumpster, and out of my life forever. Damn. To add insult to injury, I could never get any of the Commodore file transfer programs to work with my PC and 1541. Damn. I'm sorry about the rant, guys. It's just really hard to watch an irreplaceable piece of hardware die after working flawlessly for almost fifteen years. Jeff From kevan at heydon.org Wed Oct 8 12:30:24 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: <9709088763.AA876357163@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199710081730.SAA22896@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Philip Belben wrote: > No. Typical house sizes here in the UK mean that all of us UK members have > it. I imagine many of the US crowd have the same problem, too. In > continental Europe, typical house sizes are larger, but most people live in > apartments, so goodness knows what they do! Last weekend I made a concerted effort to free up space in the loft office I have. You can now see the carpet again, but the cupboards are well and truly full. Well at least now I'll have space under a desk for the Sun 2/120 I hope to get this week :-) > If it's just floorspace you're worried about, you can sit them on > shelves, furniture, each other... :-) I should take a picture of my loft cupboards to show just how creative you can get with stacking machines. > But I've seen your house, so I > know your problem is worse than mine, and I envy you your tolerant > parents... I have a bit of stuff at my parents, basically stuff that I have picked up at boot sales while I have been there and then conveniently left. > The solution is for several people in the same area to club together and > buy a warehouse, derelict factory or ex-secret wartime government > research base. Even an aircraft hangar might do, although the design > parameters are not optimal for computer storage. Any takers? (Central > or SW England for me, London for Tony) and Cambridge for me. Kevan From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Oct 8 12:46:52 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: CC> I'm Bummed :-( In-Reply-To: <1C1D123507E5@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > Now 80 column mode dosen't work at all. Damn. 40 is ok, but it kinda Hmmm... Now, I've never seen this card, but that suggests one of 2 things to me - either bit-rot in the control EPROM (I hope you've dumped it...) or video memory failure. If this thing uses 2114's for video memory, replace the set. I've had more problems than enough with that excuse for a RAM chip :-). I've had them fail in Tandy M3's, CBM 8050 drives, Vectexes (Vectrices?), etc. > defeats the purpose of having the display card: I can get 40 columns > on a C= 64. Damn. I haven't been hanging around much in Commodore > circles lately, but this is the only VideoPAK/20 I've ever seen. The > only other Data-20 product I've ever seen was a VideoPAK/64 and that > was in 1988! I don't even have a schematic for the thing. Now's the time to learn the gentle art of reverse engineering... Seriously tracing out schematics is not hard (which is why companies who refuse to supply them 'as it makes it harder for our competitors to copy' are being plain stupid). IMHO it is easier, quicker, and plain less hassle to draw out any schematic of < 400 chips than to battle with the manufacturer. How to go about it : 0) Get a good continuity checker. Make sure it responds quickly (HP suggest < 1ms...), and that it's not fooled by diodes, etc. Designs for these have been published in electronics magazines. A beeper type of output is very useful. 1) Look at the board. Make a list of all the IC's and get data on them. Obviously there's no point in looking up all the TTL functions if you have the TI bible on the shelf. But make sure you have all the others. Custom chips are a pain, and I'll cover those later. 2) Now list all the IC's _and sections_ on the board in component-number order. You'll end up with a list like : IC1 a b c d 74LS00 IC2 a b c 74LS10 IC3 6845 IC4 a b 74F74 IC5 Z80A CPU IC6 a b c d e f 74LS04 etc. 3) Start drawing. Start with the largest/most complicated IC - like a CPU. There's essentially only one way to use a CPU, and once you've identified it, you probably have the data and address buses found as well. A thing like a NAND gate. Trace out, finding things like memory arrays, address decoders, buffers, etc. As you draw each section of a chip, cross it off the list. That way, you know what you've drawn, and you don't waste time doing the same bit twice. 4) If there's no CPU, start from some other reference point. A bus connector, perhaps. Or a large video chip. Or _anything_ that identifies a lot of signals. 5) You'll end up with the 'glue' logic. You basically have to work through this, which is a pain, but often you can identify well-known sections, particularly if you've seen a lot of schematics. Experience counts for a lot here. Custom chips : These are a PAIN!. Often you can identify most of the pins by what they're connected to - CPU bus signals, RAM bus signals, memory select lines, etc. Make a pinout table, and fill it in. Interconnected custom chips : Panic. A logic analyser may help you distiguish data from enable from clock, but you will spend a long time figuring it all out. And of course the device has to be working for you to do this. Which brings me on to my next point. The time to start thinking about maintenance/repair is when the device is still working. That's when you can take dumps of the ROMs (and know they're good), can record important waveforms (and know they're correct), etc. After it's failed you have a lot less to go on. > Jeff -tony From CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Oct 8 15:38:38 1997 From: CharlesII at nwohio.nwohio.com (CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports Message-ID: <199710082038.NAA12627@mx3.u.washington.edu> Yes I think that might be the answer. Do you have a spare that I could buy? CL>At 01:52 AM 10/8/97 -0500, you wrote: CL>>DB15's are used by Mac II's (and related models) for video out. With an CL>>adapter, they can use VGA monitors. Perhaps that is what you have? CL> CL>I just noticed (quite by coincidence) that the monitor/keyboard combination CL>for the DEC Rainbow 100 is a DB15. Perchance that's the answer. CL>--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- CL>Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad CL>sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." CL>Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates CL>San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From wpe at interserv.com Wed Oct 8 19:24:59 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:13 2005 Subject: Somewhat trivial question Message-ID: <343C245A.F6D62F23@interserv.com> Anyone recall the "default date" that VMS does (or did) think it was, when the system clock wasn't set? Seems to me, it was somewhere in 1888, and there was a story behind the selection of the date.... Thanks! Will From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Oct 9 11:40:19 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Frontpanel? Message-ID: While talking to the local DEC guy (Mark Sherman, sells me all kindsa crap.) he mentioned that he recalled the 11/44 has 2 frontpanel options. One was the minimal panel I got, and the other was a calculator type panel. The interesting part was that the calculator frontpanel was detachable, so techs you get one to use with a machine ordered with the minimal panel. Is that true? Could I track one of these down anywhere? Or is this a simple thing to build? (I am dialed in at about 2400 baud. This is NOT fun... never saw how much Pine wants to refresh the screen until you have to wait about 1/2 sec for it to do so! I think from now on I'll use the command-line mailer...) From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Oct 9 17:10:54 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Those pesky db15 ports In-Reply-To: CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com's message of 7 Oct 1997 17:09:04 EDT References: <199710072116.OAA16226@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199710092210.PAA14939@daemonweed.reanimators.org> CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com wrote: > I found out from a person in the area that low density DB15 > ports if not used for Ethernet are used for a VGA terminal. On NCR gear? News to me, but what do I know? Should you happen to run across NCR Tower serial ports on DA15 connectors, the adapter cable that brings this out to a male DB25 connector looks like this. Both hoods have the following molded into them: One side: TERMINAL 1308-C036-0152 The other side: 006-0089359 U.L. E40323 Ohming it out yields: DA15 DB25 1 - frame ground 1 ------ 3 2 ------ 5 3,12 ------ 4 4 ------ 6,8 9 ------ 2 10 ------ 20 11 ------ 7 I used to use this cable to hook up an HP 700/22 to an NCR Tower's console port. I can't remember whether I had it plugged into a null-modem-like thing or just a gender bender at the 700/22 end, but there must have been something there because both the cable and the terminal have male connectors. Hope this helps someone. -Frank McConnell From mhop at mail.snip.net Thu Oct 9 22:20:53 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: NeXT cube ? Message-ID: <19971010032819209.AAB164@computer-name> > > I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. Why is it called a "cube"? From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Oct 9 18:37:57 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: NeXT cube ? In-Reply-To: <19971010032819209.AAB164@computer-name> Message-ID: <199710100335.XAA09569@mail.cgocable.net> > > > I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. > > Why is it called a "cube"? > > Have'nt you have seen one? I have, seen it in photo. It's perfect cube shaped CPU all done in black.. Jason D. From marc at hoknik.com Fri Oct 10 01:10:14 1997 From: marc at hoknik.com (Marc Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971010001014.006bc0f8@pop.hoknik.com> Hello there, I have the Timex Sinclair 2040 personal printer. Its still like new and in the box. I lost my Timex Sinclair ZX81, or maybe its back at the folks house still. What would my 2040 printer be worth. I'm debating hooking it up to my Pentium, but I'm sensing sparks. Yours, Marc Pearce, director H?k Nik Creative ph: (403) 944-9951 fx: (403) 944-9952 ----------------------------------------------------- mailto:marc@hoknik.com http://www.hoknik.com http://www.webmonton.com From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Oct 10 05:23:51 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair Message-ID: <199710101022.FAA24391@sunflower.com> Well, im biased as to tell you its value, since I want one :) There is a company that sells the new kits also has brand new alphacon printers for 30.00, these are similiar to yours. Id like to have that original one though. Id pay 15.00 for it without a problem. + shipping of course. ---------- > From: Marc Pearce > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Timex Sinclair > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 1:10 AM > > Hello there, > > I have the Timex Sinclair 2040 personal printer. Its still like new and in > the box. I lost my Timex Sinclair ZX81, or maybe its back at the folks > house still. What would my 2040 printer be worth. I'm debating hooking it > up to my Pentium, but I'm sensing sparks. > > > Yours, > Marc Pearce, director > H?k Nik Creative > ph: (403) 944-9951 fx: (403) 944-9952 > ----------------------------------------------------- > mailto:marc@hoknik.com > > http://www.hoknik.com http://www.webmonton.com From scottk5 at ibm.net Thu Oct 9 21:00:58 1997 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Robert KIrk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: To: Sam Ismail References: <199710100335.XAA09569@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <343D8C5A.460D@ibm.net> Sorry to waste list bandwidth, but in re-installing my operating system I have lost a bunch of files, including Sam's address. Sam please contact me with your email and snail mail adresses. Thanks. Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl Fri Oct 10 08:38:18 1997 From: krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl (maciej grzeszczuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Atari 1450XLD/1400XLD - schematics / plans / rom dumps / anything Message-ID: <61lb4a$61n$1@sanos.psych.uw.edu.pl> i'm looking for any infomation about the Atari 1450XLD (or 1400XLD) prototype. schematics, manuals, technical references, rom dumps, or custom chips plans, serial numbers, vendors, companies that would know anything... thanks in advance... 516 -- = wasza KrAp = krap@psych.uw.edu.pl = http://www.psych.uw.edu.pl/~krap = = phone 602-339173 = PGP 50D98803B12327E7 216A787AB7EFD5FA * in arp we trust * From krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl Fri Oct 10 08:18:15 1997 From: krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl (maciej grzeszczuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Atari 1450XLD/1400XLD - schematics / plans / rom dumps / anything Message-ID: <61l9un$5d0$1@sanos.psych.uw.edu.pl> i'm looking for any infomation about the Atari 1450XLD (or 1400XLD) prototype. schematics, manuals, technical references, rom dumps, or custom chips plans, serial numbers, vendors, companies that would know anything... thanks in advance... 515 -- = wasza KrAp = krap@psych.uw.edu.pl = http://www.psych.uw.edu.pl/~krap = = phone 602-339173 = PGP 50D98803B12327E7 216A787AB7EFD5FA * in arp we trust * From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Oct 10 09:17:25 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: I picked up an apple//e MIDI Message-ID: <199710101412.JAA01626@sunflower.com> Picked up an Apple //e Midi interface, of course now that I'm at work I can't remember the manufactuer. The logo was like a SUN and TWO seagulls on it. ANyone have any software for this thing? It's got MIDI , IN, OUT, and DRUM standard DIN ports On the top of the card it had two rca jacks IN and OUT. From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Oct 10 13:25:37 1997 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube In-Reply-To: <199710100702.AAA03589@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >It's perfect cube shaped CPU all done in black.. My apologies in advance, for NeXTs are not yet classic, depending on how far one is willing to bend the 10-year limit...but soon, and this is a reasonably good time to collect them... NeXT's first (68030) computer had a processor box which was basically cube-shaped. The front had an opening for an optical drive (or two), there were vertical slots two on each side on the back, and there was a sort of small radiator-fin pattern around the sides and top. Also small feet on the bottom. The exterior finish was black except for connectors and markings (serial number, etc.) on the back and plain metal on the bottom. The processor box,display, keyboard, and mouse were finished in matching black. Very unique. Sounds sinister, but it actually is very nice to work in front of. Of the four slots on the back, one was full of the processor board, and the other three were generally empty. A NeXTDimension Card (color display driver and other stuff) could occupy one of the other three slots. It was possible to put seperate 030 or 040 cards into the empty slots with some modifications. These became standalone computers - the only communications to them were through the ethernet or serial ports on the back, and in fact they had to be set up to net-boot through the ethernet port. I'm not aware of any other boards designed to fit in the empty slots. Later NeXTs using 68040's at 25 MHz and at 33 MHz (Turbo) came in two styles: the Cube case, virtually undistinguishable from the older cube case, and a "Pizza box" case which went under the monitor. The "Pizza Boxes" were referred to as "NeXT Stations" (possibly with modifiers "Color" and/or "Turbo") rather than "NeXT Cubes" or "NeXT Computers". - Mark From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Fri Oct 10 03:45:31 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair References: <3.0.1.32.19971010001014.006bc0f8@pop.hoknik.com> Message-ID: <343DEB2B.4B3C@ndirect.co.uk> Marc Pearce wrote: > > Hello there, > > I have the Timex Sinclair 2040 personal printer. Its still like new and in > the box. I lost my Timex Sinclair ZX81, or maybe its back at the folks > house still. What would my 2040 printer be worth. I'm debating hooking it > up to my Pentium, but I'm sensing sparks. > > Yours, > Marc Pearce, director > H?k Nik Creative > ph: (403) 944-9951 fx: (403) 944-9952 > ----------------------------------------------------- > mailto:marc@hoknik.com > > http://www.hoknik.com http://www.webmonton.com Your printer is not very rare, in fact it is quite common, you can still find it for a few pence (or cents, I don't know where you are...). I don't think that you will find anybody who would go out of his/her way to buy it. Sorry to be negative but truth cannot be blamed to hurt..... Ciao enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Fri Oct 10 13:16:20 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair References: <199710101022.FAA24391@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <343E70F4.7F88@ndirect.co.uk> thedm wrote: > > Well, im biased as to tell you its value, since I want one :) There is a > company that sells the new kits also has brand new alphacon printers for > 30.00, these are similiar to yours. Id like to have that original one > though. Id pay 15.00 for it without a problem. + shipping of course. > > ---------- > > From: Marc Pearce > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Timex Sinclair > > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 1:10 AM > > > > Hello there, > > > > I have the Timex Sinclair 2040 personal printer. Its still like new and > in > > the box. I lost my Timex Sinclair ZX81, or maybe its back at the folks > > house still. What would my 2040 printer be worth. I'm debating hooking > it > > up to my Pentium, but I'm sensing sparks. You lost me completely.....you wanted to know how much your printer was worth and I replied. Now you want to buy something but I am sorry I don't understand what you want....could you be more specific please? Thanks enrico From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Oct 10 12:34:10 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair Message-ID: <199710101729.MAA10360@sunflower.com> I was asking the originator of this message if he would sell it to me. ---------- > From: e.tedeschi > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Timex Sinclair > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 1:16 PM > > thedm wrote: > > > > Well, im biased as to tell you its value, since I want one :) There is a > > company that sells the new kits also has brand new alphacon printers for > > 30.00, these are similiar to yours. Id like to have that original one > > though. Id pay 15.00 for it without a problem. + shipping of course. > > > > ---------- > > > From: Marc Pearce > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > > Subject: Timex Sinclair > > > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 1:10 AM > > > > > > Hello there, > > > > > > I have the Timex Sinclair 2040 personal printer. Its still like new and > > in > > > the box. I lost my Timex Sinclair ZX81, or maybe its back at the folks > > > house still. What would my 2040 printer be worth. I'm debating hooking > > it > > > up to my Pentium, but I'm sensing sparks. > You lost me completely.....you wanted to know how much your printer was > worth and I replied. Now you want to buy something but I am sorry I > don't understand what you want....could you be more specific please? > > Thanks > > enrico > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Oct 10 13:47:23 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: FW: MicroVAXen up for sale Message-ID: <343e7809.99162818@mail.boeing.com> From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Oct 10 13:48:34 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: FW (Try this again...) MicroVAXen II up for sale Message-ID: <343e7841.99218017@mail.boeing.com> Let's try it with some text this time, shall we? ;-) -=-=- -=-=- Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.dec.micro:1804 Path: xyzzy!uunet!in5.uu.net!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.232.56.18!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: anthonyg@ultranet.com (Anthony) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro Subject: F/S MicroVax II Date: 9 Oct 1997 14:13:32 GMT Organization: Your Organization Lines: 18 Message-ID: <61ioqc$mor$1@decius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d24.dial-1.prv.ri.ultra.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) I am trying to unload the following: MicroVax II w/ RD53 Maxtor Hard Drive RD54 Maxtor Hard Drive XT2190 Maxtor Hard Drive TK50 Tape Backup 12 VT220 Terminals 2 VT320 Terminals 2 VR201 Terminals 1 VT340 Terminal 14 Keyboards 3 LA210 Dot Matrix Printers 2 LN03 Laser Printers email anthonyg@ultranet.com if you are interested in any of this equipment. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SSG Computing Support (253) 773-8576 Bldg. 18-04.2, Col. G1 Boeing ISDS, Kent Space Ctr. ba.lane@pss.boeing.com "...No matter how hard we may try, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 10 14:53:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Frontpanel? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 9, 97 11:40:19 am Message-ID: <9710101853.AA14874@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971010/44de83d5/attachment.ksh From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Fri Oct 10 14:57:26 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair References: <199710101729.MAA10360@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <343E88A6.50A5@ndirect.co.uk> Bill Girnius wrote: > > I was asking the originator of this message if he would sell it to me. Sekk what? Why everybody must be so criptic? enrico From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Oct 10 14:10:41 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair Message-ID: <199710101909.OAA15130@sunflower.com> What are you talking about? He asked what the printer was worth, I told him where a new one like it could be purchased and for how much, then made him an offer, whats so cryptic about that? ---------- > From: e.tedeschi > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Timex Sinclair > Date: Friday, October 10, 1997 2:57 PM > > Bill Girnius wrote: > > > > I was asking the originator of this message if he would sell it to me. > > Sekk what? Why everybody must be so criptic? > > enrico From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 10 17:17:29 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Anyone for 9-track-tape drives? Message-ID: I have 3, and that's 1 more than I plan to keep (I think) 2 Cipher 6250s, and a 1550 (I think, it's the smaller version of a 6250). Anyone need one or two (Depending on which one's a TM02 or can become one or will at least boot the diag tapes I have. They're really heavy. And I have no real place to put them. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 10 18:56:23 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Anyone for 9-track-tape drives? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 10, 97 05:17:29 pm Message-ID: <9710102256.AA11699@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971010/c20ca2f3/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 10 18:00:02 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: SpacStation IPC? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971010160012.606f0774@mail.crl.com> Does anyone know what a sparcstation IPC is? Is it worth $175.00? (It had four out of 8 SIMM slots on the right (looking from the back) filled in, and another four/4 on the left, and no hard drive.) Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 10 18:14:20 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971010161430.32477d5c@ricochet.net> I picked up a Mac Portable today, but it had no power supply. Anyone know of an (affordable) source to get one? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 10 18:09:06 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Oh! Another idea! I can make images now! Message-ID: Murrel has a device card which interfaces a PC to a Pertec-formatted drive - that means I can image tapes now! I GOTTA try this out! From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Oct 10 18:23:44 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20681DF0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> The battery charger is just 9VDC, but I hope you have a functional battery, since the Mac Portable will not run on the battery charger. There is no AC adapter. The batteries are lead-acid and tend to deteriorate over time. Eventually all of these machines will stop working. > -----Original Message----- > From: Uncle Roger [SMTP:sinasohn@crl.com] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 4:14 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Mac Portable > > I picked up a Mac Portable today, but it had no power supply. Anyone > know > of an (affordable) source to get one? Thanks! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen > know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Oct 10 17:39:04 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Mac Portable In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20681DF0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Actually, from what I've read on the net, it's no big deal to rebuild the battery. If you open it up, it's just 3(?) Gates Cylon 2V cells. As for a source for a charger, here's my two favorite Mac places: Intragate (intramac@aol.com) 505-265-7759 Timco Computers (lance@lance.seanet.com) 206-933-6090 http://www.timco-computers.com Intragate has slightly better prices, but Timco is slightly more likely to have it in stock. YMMV <<>> >The battery charger is just 9VDC, but I hope you have a functional >battery, since the Mac Portable will not run on the battery charger. >There is no AC adapter. The batteries are lead-acid and tend to >deteriorate over time. Eventually all of these machines will stop >working. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Uncle Roger [SMTP:sinasohn@crl.com] >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 1997 4:14 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: Mac Portable >> >> I picked up a Mac Portable today, but it had no power supply. Anyone >> know >> of an (affordable) source to get one? Thanks! >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> O- >> >> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >> sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen >> know." >> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >> San Francisco, California >> http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 10 19:48:59 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Oh! Another idea! I can make images now! In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 10, 97 06:09:06 pm Message-ID: <9710102348.AA14938@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 917 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971010/9e8a42e9/attachment.ksh From pcoad at wco.com Fri Oct 10 18:31:09 1997 From: pcoad at wco.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: SpacStation IPC? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971010160012.606f0774@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: The IPC is an early Sparc based machine. It is about the same speed as a Sparc 1+ and has a builtin (bw2?) monochrome frame buffer. I have recently seen IPC base units without memory or harddrive for sale for $50. Even with memory $175 is likely too much. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > Does anyone know what a sparcstation IPC is? Is it worth $175.00? (It had > four out of 8 SIMM slots on the right (looking from the back) filled in, and > another four/4 on the left, and no hard drive.) Thanks. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > From wpe at interserv.com Fri Oct 10 19:11:56 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: FW (Try this again...) MicroVAXen II up for sale References: <343e7841.99218017@mail.boeing.com> Message-ID: <343EC44B.22383267@interserv.com> Three questions...... 1. How much you lookin' for, on the MVII? 2. Where is it? 3. Can you give me a rough estimate of the weight? Thanks! Will kyrrin2@wizards.net wrote: > Let's try it with some text this time, shall we? ;-) > > -=-=- -=-=- > > Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.dec.micro:1804 > Path: > xyzzy uunet!in5.uu.net!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.232.56.18!news.ultranet.com!not-for-ma > > From: anthonyg@ultranet.com (Anthony) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro > Subject: F/S MicroVax II > Date: 9 Oct 1997 14:13:32 GMT > Organization: Your Organization > Lines: 18 > Message-ID: <61ioqc$mor$1@decius.ultra.net> > NNTP-Posting-Host: d24.dial-1.prv.ri.ultra.net > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII > X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) > > I am trying to unload the following: > > MicroVax II w/ > RD53 Maxtor Hard Drive > RD54 Maxtor Hard Drive > XT2190 Maxtor Hard Drive > TK50 Tape Backup > > 12 VT220 Terminals > 2 VT320 Terminals > 2 VR201 Terminals > 1 VT340 Terminal > 14 Keyboards > 3 LA210 Dot Matrix Printers > 2 LN03 Laser Printers > > email anthonyg@ultranet.com if you are interested in any of this > equipment. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, SSG Computing Support > (253) 773-8576 Bldg. 18-04.2, Col. G1 > Boeing ISDS, Kent Space Ctr. > ba.lane@pss.boeing.com > "...No matter how hard we may try, our science can only describe an > object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot, > in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at wco.com Fri Oct 10 19:26:07 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Frontpanel? In-Reply-To: <9710101853.AA14874@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > (I am dialed in at about 2400 baud. This is NOT fun... never saw how > > much Pine wants to refresh the screen until you have to wait about 1/2 sec > > for it to do so! I think from now on I'll use the command-line mailer...) > > Oh, these young kids... Smiley when you say that. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Fri Oct 10 19:26:47 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Timex Sinclair In-Reply-To: <343E88A6.50A5@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > Bill Girnius wrote: > > > > I was asking the originator of this message if he would sell it to me. > > Sekk what? Why everybody must be so criptic? I don't know, enrico. I'd like to know the same thing. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Fri Oct 10 21:17:51 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: CC> Sorry for the personal message but... Message-ID: Sorry for this message but I can't seem to get through to Ricardo via his e-mail address (apparently chemif@mbox.queen.ti). MESSAGE TO RICARDO: On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Riccardo wrote: > It's a pleasure to help you in building the tech-sheets to be shown in > the Festival > near the machines. > > I have studied your list, and divided in two: for the first I will try > to give you extended informations, for the second, I will give the > specifications I own, ONLY if required (=if anyone will supply complete > infos ). Ricardo, I would very much appreciate if you could do the writeups for ALL of the systems you mentioned. Even if someone else is already doing one, I can always use the extra information. Thank you VERY much! Please have the write-ups done by October 20th if possible. Thanks! > Here follow the first group. > > > MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL WRITEUP > > ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ ----------- > Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A > R.Romagnoli > Atari Atari 520ST 520ST > R.Romagnoli > Olivetti M10 > R.Romagnoli > ^^^^^^^^ > (obviously) > > This is the second group: > I think that if anyone else has extended info on those, is better he > will care instead > of me. > Anyway i can give short infos like:CPU,Operating System,available > configurations,video res.,ports,official price at that period here in > Italy. > > If any info will come about these model, please e-mail wich are missing > and I will reply. > > MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL > WRITEUP > ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ > -------- > Altos ACS 8000 if needed > Altos ACS > 580 only > Altos ACS > 186 " " > Altos > 3068 " " > Altos > 2086 " " > Altos 5.X > 5.15 " " > Altos 5.X > 5.5 " " > > Apple Computer Lisa 2 > Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A > > Atari Atari 130XE 130XE > Atari Atari 600XL Home Computer 600XL > Atari Atari 800XL 800XL > > Compaq Portable > > > Data General Data General One 2514A > > Epson Geneva PX-8 > Epson Portable Computer HX-20 > > IBM Personal Computer 5150 > > Mattel Electronics Aquarius 5931 > Mindset Mindset PC 1 > > Morrow Designs Pivot Portable I can supply info > only abt. Pivot II > > Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 1 (OCC1) > > Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 26-5103 Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Oct 10 20:29:13 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Mac Portable In-Reply-To: References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20681DF0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: >Actually, from what I've read on the net, it's no big deal to rebuild >the battery. If you open it up, it's just 3(?) Gates Cylon 2V cells. > >As for a source for a charger, here's my two favorite Mac places: > > Intragate (intramac@aol.com) 505-265-7759 > Timco Computers (lance@lance.seanet.com) 206-933-6090 > http://www.timco-computers.com > >Intragate has slightly better prices, but Timco is slightly more likely >to have it in stock. YMMV > ><<>> Two more things: 1) The other gotcha with a Mac Portable seems to be the hard drive. Although it is SCSI, it is a strange Connor with an unusual connector. Plans do exist on the net, though, for how to build an adapter for a standard drive. 2) I'm looking for one of these, if anyone (John?) comes across one cheap. I keep having people dangle the possibility of getting one under my nose, but it never pans out. <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Oct 10 20:34:18 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: SpacStation IPC? In-Reply-To: References: <1.5.4.16.19971010160012.606f0774@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: >The IPC is an early Sparc based machine. It is about the same speed as >a Sparc 1+ and has a builtin (bw2?) monochrome frame buffer. I have >recently seen IPC base units without memory or harddrive for sale for $50. >Even with memory $175 is likely too much. I tend to agree, but would first ask what comes with it monitor (color or mono)? Hard drive? If so, how big? KB/mouse? CD-ROM drive? I assume that the 4 SIMMs total 16MB, with a possible of 32 total on the board. $175 may be reasonable if it comes with a decent HD and a color monitor. It;'s too much just for a bare CPU. <<>> From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Oct 10 17:56:48 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Interface strangeness on any kinds. Was: RE: Mac Portable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199710110254.WAA08371@mail.cgocable.net> > >Actually, from what I've read on the net, it's no big deal to rebuild > >the battery. If you open it up, it's just 3(?) Gates Cylon 2V cells. > > > >As for a source for a charger, here's my two favorite Mac places: > > > > Intragate (intramac@aol.com) 505-265-7759 > > Timco Computers (lance@lance.seanet.com) 206-933-6090 > > http://www.timco-computers.com > > > >Intragate has slightly better prices, but Timco is slightly more likely > >to have it in stock. YMMV > > > ><<>> > > Two more things: > > 1) The other gotcha with a Mac Portable seems to be the hard drive. > Although it is SCSI, it is a strange Connor with an unusual connector. > Plans do exist on the net, though, for how to build an adapter for > a standard drive. > > 2) I'm looking for one of these, if anyone (John?) comes across one cheap. > I keep having people dangle the possibility of getting one under my nose, > but it never pans out. > > <<>> > That hd interface strangeness springs up in my mind also on early pre 2.5" ATA IDE type with 19mm thick 3.5" hds found in early series of LTE (8088) and LTE 286. That's not related to LTE 386s/20 which uses standard IDE 2.5" drives. One customer came in with LTE 286, dead hd, I tore it apart. Found it's really IDE 2.5" interface so we wired up for 1-1, 2-2 pin for pin adapter cable to accept 2.5" IDE drive and set the cmos, reformatted it. Now an happy owner with bit longer living notebook due to lower current demands from newer 2.5" drives. :) Suggest that LTE/LTE 286 should be included into the 10 year class now. Jason D. From maynard at jmg.com Sat Oct 11 00:48:14 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: SpacStation IPC? In-Reply-To: (message from John Ruschmeyer on Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:34:18 -0300) Message-ID: <199710110548.BAA28075@jmg.com> > > >The IPC is an early Sparc based machine. It is about the same speed as > >a Sparc 1+ and has a builtin (bw2?) monochrome frame buffer. I have > >recently seen IPC base units without memory or harddrive for sale for $50. > >Even with memory $175 is likely too much. I seem to remember it has a 20mhz Sparc CPU, so more like a Sparc 1. But this is a quibble. It fits in a 'shoebox' style case, supports up to two banks of 30 pin SIMMS, can fit one 3 1/2" hard disk and one 3 1/2" floppy, and has one sbus slot (I think?), and a builtin bwtwo. It's a sloooow computer and most definately not worth $175 base. I've seen them at the MIT flea for between $50 and $75 for *just* the base. > > I tend to agree, but would first ask what comes with it monitor (color or > mono)? Hard drive? If so, how big? KB/mouse? CD-ROM drive? > CDROM Drive??? No way. Suns don't take normal SCSI CDRom drives, they want drives which support 512kb/sector(1). That's not to say they are terribly expensive, just a little difficult to come by. Old Hitachi tube HM-4119A monitors seem to be going for about $100 around here, though. That's the old 19" tube fixed freq monitors from around 1988-1990 (Maybe earlier?). A good Sony GDM20D10 20" might run you about $500 used. This is a *nice* monitor, however. The Sony GDM16A15's I've seen for as little as $200, and for a 16" monitor it's very sweet (at least as good as your average 17" commercial grade PC monitor, maybe better if you can deal with a fixed freq monitor on a PC. > I assume that the 4 SIMMs total 16MB, with a possible of 32 total on the board. > > $175 may be reasonable if it comes with a decent HD and a color monitor. > It;'s too much just for a bare CPU. > I think that's asking for more than the $175 is worth. I'd guess a IPC W/ 16MB RAM, Type 4 keyboard, mouse, 404MB hard drive, CGThree (color) frame buffer, and a Hitachi tube monitor would go for about $300. Make sure you get the cables, especially the 13W3 -> 4BNC or 13W3 to 13W3. The 13W3 -> 4BNC especially are getting harder to find, and Sun *doesn't* charge reasonable prices! Good Luck! Maynard (1) http://www.aball.de/~wpv/sun/faq/cdrom.html http://saturn.tlug.org/suncdfaq/ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Oct 10 12:57:53 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: References: <9709088763.AA876352122@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199710110636.CAA14368@smtp.interlog.com> > > > > If I had space, I'd be tempted to offer one a home. But I haven't :-( > > You mean I'm not the olnly classiccmp member to have a space problem... > > Seriously, other than moving (or collecting pocket calculators), is there > a cure to having more computers than floorspace for them? > Get rid of your couch and bed. They're taking up usefull space. Lofts can also be suspended from the ceiling. : ^ )) > > PS Are you sure the connectors aren't DA15? > > Almost certainly they are. There is no connector called a DB15 in _any_ > catalogue I've looked in. The letter after the 'D' specifies the shell > size - from memory, the standard ones are : > > DE9 (PC serial port, Atari joystick, etc) > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC games port, etc) -- The one we're talking about > DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port, etc) > DC37 (PC external disk port, Canon CX engine interface, etc) > DD50 (Sun SCSI port, etc) > > The high-density ones are : > > DE15 (PC VGA monitor) > DA?? (Never seen it) > DB44 (Never seen it used, but it's in the catalogues) > DC62 (PC expansion cabinet, etc) > > -tony > Sorry to differ from my more knowledgeable co-respondents, but I had an XT clone which had a DB15 RS2 serial port. I searched in vain to find an adaptor for an external modem and finally installed an internal one. 2 rows in a D shell. ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Oct 11 17:13:04 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Wanted Misc Parts Message-ID: <08e7d0218220ba7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> Does anyone have the following Apple stuff for sale?? - System Saver fan for the Apple II+/e - software for the Apple-made Apple II SCSI card - Mac 400k floppy drive (with or without case) - Apple SC20 or equiv. external hard drive (the one originally used with the FatMac; connects to the floppy port) - IBM 5-1/4" floppy drive for the original IBM-PC (which I just got from my uncle). Model is Tandon TM100-2A with a baseplate number of 172289-001. Mine seems to have a short to ground in the spindle motor circuit (board attached to the rear of the drive). Alternatively, if anyone has a repair/serivce manual for that machine or the drive itself, I can make any repairs to it. I'd also love to get my hands on a IIci system (for real use) and a Mac Portable. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Oct 11 18:26:49 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Wanted Misc Parts In-Reply-To: <08e7d0218220ba7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> from "Richard Cini" at Oct 11, 97 06:13:04 pm Message-ID: <9710112226.AA08508@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 664 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971011/fafce849/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 05:08:21 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: <199710110636.CAA14368@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Oct 10, 97 05:57:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971011/b0d9185f/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Sat Oct 11 19:02:57 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: SpacStation IPC? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971011170318.4e47db22@ricochet.net> At 10:34 PM 10/10/97 -0300, you wrote: >>recently seen IPC base units without memory or harddrive for sale for $50. >>Even with memory $175 is likely too much. > >I tend to agree, but would first ask what comes with it monitor (color or >mono)? Hard drive? If so, how big? KB/mouse? CD-ROM drive? I kinda thought that was too much... It was $175 for just the box -- no keyboard or monitor or harddrive. This place was kinda overpriced. I think I spent too much as it was. I got the following: Mac Portable (no ps, condition unknown): 40.00 Altima 2 portable (286, mono VGA, works): 45.00 Grid Gridcase 3 (no ps, cond unknown): 45.00 Dash 030 (1 floppy, 1 340mb HD, cond unk): 100.00 6 bay scsi case (no scsi cable, tho): 15.00 AppleCD 300plus: 15.00 External 300ish Scsi hd: 20.00 Some weren't bad, others were... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Oct 12 08:59:54 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Can't find list instructions Message-ID: <094880605140ca7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> How can I get a copy of a previous list digest? I can't find the message that I saved that had the list instructions!! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 12 12:17:16 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Wanted Misc Parts References: <08e7d0218220ba7UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> Message-ID: <3441061C.377D@worldnet.att.net> Found your Tandon TM100-2A (171155002) What are you willing to give for that? shipping will be from MN. I'm not after the money so if you have some Hardware that youll be willing to part with let me know. Francois. Richard Cini wrote: > > Does anyone have the following Apple stuff for sale?? > > - System Saver fan for the Apple II+/e > - software for the Apple-made Apple II SCSI card > - Mac 400k floppy drive (with or without case) > - Apple SC20 or equiv. external hard drive (the one originally used with > the FatMac; > connects to the floppy port) > - IBM 5-1/4" floppy drive for the original IBM-PC (which I just got from > my uncle). Model is > Tandon TM100-2A with a baseplate number of 172289-001. Mine seems to > have a > short to ground in the spindle motor circuit (board attached to the > rear of the drive). > Alternatively, if anyone has a repair/serivce manual for that > machine or the drive > itself, I can make any repairs to it. > > I'd also love to get my hands on a IIci system (for real use) and a Mac > Portable. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > - MCP Windows 95/Networking > > Name: Richard A Cini.vcf > Part 1.2 Type: unspecified type (application/octet-stream) > Encoding: x-uuencode From mhop at mail.snip.net Sun Oct 12 13:42:21 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Wanted Misc Parts Message-ID: <19971012184956026.AAA122@computer-name> ---------- > From: Richard Cini > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Wanted Misc Parts > Date: Saturday, October 11, 1997 6:13 PM > > Does anyone have the following Apple stuff for sale?? Did you know you sent an attachment with your email? "Richard A Cini.vcf" Why? From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 12 16:49:41 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Apple III and profile HD Message-ID: <344145F5.6179@worldnet.att.net> Hi, I just got an Apple III with the profile HD. Does anyone knows how I can access the HD? I can boot SOS but from there I'm stuck what is the HD designation? Any info on both the Apple III and the profile HD will be apreciated Thanks. Francois From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Sun Oct 12 15:23:51 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Philips machines (and AMT DAPs) Message-ID: I wonder if anyone on this list knows anything about the minicomputers that Philips were making in the 1970's? They seem to be somewhat uncommon, even though a lot of different models seem to have been produced. Two that I know about are the P850 (a 16 bit machine, with a maximum of 2K words of Core and 9 I/O slots, all built from discrete TTL), and the P851 (a later machine using LSI chips (SPALU was the ALU/register slice, PLANET was the control sequencer, taking a maximum of 32K words of MOS RAM). The P852, P853, P854, P855 (== P850 with more instructions), P856, P857 and P860 are all mentioned in passing in the manuals, but I have no real details The other thing I am trying to find information on is the AMT DAP (Distributed Array Processor), which seems to have been a square array of custom single-bit processors. It's a little too recent for this list (it seems to have come out about 9 years ago), but as it's not a PC, I doubt anyone will mind discussing it here. -tony From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Oct 12 15:59:12 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 in NYC area: Needs Rescue! Message-ID: <34513979.3024769@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, Those in the New York area, heads up! Found this on Usenet... . -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!pitt.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news From: Bob Schor Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: 11/44 Available in NYC Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 07:11:27 -0400 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3440B05F.E136987D@vms.cis.pitt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ehdup-b1-1.rmt.net.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:8571 I have just turned off a PDP-11/44 which has been pretty much continuously running since the early 1980's (I'm not sure when we got it from DEC). It is available to anyone who wants it, but you better act fast, as others are itching to get the room it is in (and will probably consign it to the dumpster). There are also two RK06 drives, but we haven't been using them for perhaps a decade (using a Winchester disk on a Dilog MSCP controller). There are also two DZ boards on this system, plus documentation (again, act quickly!). Give me a call or send e-mail ASAP. This machine is located at Rockefeller University in New York City. You would need to Come and Get It ... Bob Schor University of Pittsburgh (412) 647-2116 bschor@vms.cis.pitt.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From rstrickl at linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us Sun Oct 12 18:48:34 1997 From: rstrickl at linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us (Ray Stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: NeXT cube ? In-Reply-To: <19971010032819209.AAB164@computer-name> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, mhop wrote: > > > I finally got a NeXT cube! I got it with a MegaPixel Display for $150. > > Why is it called a "cube"? > Because the CPU unit is a 12" cube. ok -r From william at ans.net Sun Oct 12 19:48:31 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:14 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: <34513979.3024769@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: I received a bit of mail from a buddy: >1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a desk >2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m) >The digitizing machine and pad are connected by some hefty >wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta >cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look >at it first. Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). Also, if I can not claim these things, does anyone want to? They are located in Chicago. William Donzelli william@ans.net From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Oct 12 22:22:26 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3441927a.9534980@mail.swbell.net> On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT), you said: >I received a bit of mail from a buddy: > >>1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a desk > >Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the >IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). > I used an 029 (and a 129) in the mid-sixties to punch cards to be used on an IBM 360 series (mainframe) computer. (I wasted *hundreds* of cards trying to make my FORTRAN progs work correctly.) _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Oct 12 22:33:41 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Tim Hotze Would Like To Join The Mailing List Message-ID: <19971013033814.AAB11430@hotze> Hello. I am Tim Hotze, and I would like to join the Classic Computers mailing list. My e-mail adress is photze@batelco.com.bh . Thanks, Tim Hotze From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Oct 13 00:06:11 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: <34513979.3024769@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971012220611.0363cd10@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:48 PM 10/12/97 -0400, William Donzelli wrote: >I received a bit of mail from a buddy: > >>1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a desk > >Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the >IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). Sounds like an IBM 029 keypunch... (pictures and some notes on my website). -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Oct 13 01:27:23 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I received a bit of mail from a buddy: > > >1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a desk > >2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m) > > >The digitizing machine and pad are connected by some hefty > >wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta > >cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look > >at it first. > > Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the > IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). I'll take a guess here... A family member of mine runs an embroidery business and she says that older designs used to be kept on cards (and later on paper tape or something like that) so this *may* have been used for such work. The digitizing tablet would lend to this idea as well as many embroidery designs need to be digitized. just a guess... LeS From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Oct 13 04:35:18 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <3434ACF9.663D@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular > computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least > listed in here! I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a single manufacturer, anyway. I've never, ever, EVER even come CLOSE to seeing a Sinclair Spectrum. I've only seen pictures in magazines and on the web. I'd love to find some of those Euro machines over here in Canada. Maybe the North American readers should try to get a group together to order Euro machines in bulk for shipment. All of the common ones and some of the uncommon ones. We'd need the cooperation of the collectors in Europe, of course. There are tons of machines from Acorn I'd love to have/see, a few from Sinclair, Oric, etc. All I find over here are C64s, VIC-20s, Apple ][s, TI-99s, CoCos, and occasionally a Kaypro. If we shipped in bulk, and used actual ocean-going vessels for shipment, how expensive would this kind of venture be? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Oct 13 05:05:12 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971003184257.0068a64c@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Have you ever heard of the Icon computer? > It seems that back in the late '70s the poobahs at the Department of > Education for Ontario (Canada) were upset because incompatable computers > were finding their way into classrooms, and the programs for these C-64s > and Apple ][s could not be used on each other. Being bureaucrats they came > up with a solution: design and build their own computer which would be > installed in all seventy five thousand Ontario classrooms! Naturally this > was designed by a committee, and since it was to be for educational > purposes they consulted with one (1) teacher and no students. Amazing! This sounds even dumber that what the Quebec government was doing at the time! :) I saw one of the machines purchased by the Quebec government from France, in a Salvation Army store about a year ago. It was running and appeared to be in good shape. I just wish I could remember now what the name of it was. The father of a friend of mine was on the local school board, though, and I think he still has some promotional material about them. I think they were just MS-DOS machines with a French keyboard and shipped with a French-language BASIC variant, but I'm not sure. My high school actually had some of those things, but I never used one. I only used the TRS-80 Model IIIs the few times I bothered with the high school computer lab (I had a ][+ clone at home, and my brother had a PET 2001 and C64, who needed the computer lab?). The Icon sounds familiar for some reason. I suspect it may have been pictured in an issue of Computing Now! that I have from 1983. As soon as I regain access to my magazines (locked in my father's bedroom - he's currently sleeping) I'll look it up. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Oct 13 05:49:45 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Philips machines (and AMT DAPs) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971013064945.0070a9c0@mail.wincom.net> At 09:23 PM 10/12/97 +0100, you wrote: > >I wonder if anyone on this list knows anything about the minicomputers >that Philips were making in the 1970's? They seem to be somewhat uncommon, >even though a lot of different models seem to have been produced. > >Two that I know about are the P850 (a 16 bit machine, with a maximum of 2K >words of Core and 9 I/O slots, all built from discrete TTL), and the P851 >(a later machine using LSI chips (SPALU was the ALU/register slice, PLANET >was the control sequencer, taking a maximum of 32K words of MOS RAM). The >P852, P853, P854, P855 (== P850 with more instructions), P856, P857 and >P860 are all mentioned in passing in the manuals, but I have no real >details > > >The other thing I am trying to find information on is the AMT DAP >(Distributed Array Processor), which seems to have been a square array of >custom single-bit processors. It's a little too recent for this list (it >seems to have come out about 9 years ago), but as it's not a PC, I doubt >anyone will mind discussing it here. > >-tony Just last week I obtained a Philips Micron 2001, with no technical information, and would like to find out something about it. (Circa 1981) Thanks Charlie Fox From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Oct 13 07:04:35 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 vs. Kaypro II Message-ID: I just picked up a Kaypro 2 (with several missing keys) at one of the local Salvation Army stores. It won't recognize my Kaypro II disks, and it takes longer to come up with the "I cannot read your diskette" message than the Kaypro II does (when I shove MS-DOS disks in them). Is the Kaypro 2 broken, or does it use a different disk format from the Kaypro II? I notice that the startup message is different, so they must have different ROM revisions. What are the differences (other than the obvious cosmetic differences) between these two models? Thanks. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Mon Oct 13 12:59:46 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971013175946.0089cf50@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> A friend of mine showed me a picture today in one of her text books of kids using what appeared to be Apple]['s (or Apple//e's, it was a bad picture). However, the name plate on the machines were visible, and they said Bell & Howell. The same for the disk drives, which were obviously Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they did, did they license other companies as well? Inquiring minds want to know... ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Mon Oct 13 13:35:47 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <34426A03.E05@ndirect.co.uk> Doug Spence wrote: > > > > On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > > > and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular > > computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least > > listed in here! > > I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" > would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a > single manufacturer, anyway. I dont' agree at all and like me all the magazines I have don't agree either. The fact that you don't know it dos not mean that it is not true. > > I've never, ever, EVER even come CLOSE to seeing a Sinclair Spectrum. > I've only seen pictures in magazines and on the web. Pity: there are many other things happening in the world, you know. I think you should widen your horizons. Try having a look in my ite for a start then do a little search on Sinclair and you will find at least 50 sites dedicated to the Spectrum. English is not the most widely used language in the world either (Mandarin is). It might not be connected but it IS relevant to the point. > > I'd love to find some of those Euro machines over here in Canada. Maybe > the North American readers should try to get a group together to order > Euro machines in bulk for shipment. All of the common ones and some of > the uncommon ones. We'd need the cooperation of the collectors in Europe, > of course. I have many for sale in my site. Have a look! > > There are tons of machines from Acorn I'd love to have/see, a few from > Sinclair, Oric, etc. They are all there! (in my site) > > All I find over here are C64s, VIC-20s, Apple ][s, TI-99s, CoCos, and > occasionally a Kaypro. > > If we shipped in bulk, and used actual ocean-going vessels for shipment, > how expensive would this kind of venture be? > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 13 13:41:46 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? References: <2.2.32.19971013175946.0089cf50@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: <34426B69.E23F968B@rain.org> Alan Richards wrote: > A friend of mine showed me a picture today in one of her text books of > kids using what appeared to be Apple]['s (or Apple//e's, it was a bad > picture). However, the name plate on the machines were visible, and they > said Bell & Howell. The same for the disk drives, which were obviously > Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they > did, did they license other companies as well? Apple did make a black Apple II Plus with the Bell & Howell name on it. Apparently it was a way for Bell & Howell to get into the educational market. Since I first heard about it a month or so ago, I'm keeping my eyes open to see if I can get one! From donm at cts.com Mon Oct 13 13:53:53 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 vs. Kaypro II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > > I just picked up a Kaypro 2 (with several missing keys) at one of the > local Salvation Army stores. > > It won't recognize my Kaypro II disks, and it takes longer to come up with > the "I cannot read your diskette" message than the Kaypro II does (when I > shove MS-DOS disks in them). > > Is the Kaypro 2 broken, or does it use a different disk format from the > Kaypro II? I notice that the startup message is different, so they must > have different ROM revisions. No, the format is the same, but the different ROM version requires a different Kaypro revision of CP/M-2.2. I am assuming that your II has full height drives and the 2 has half high ones. If a 2, they would still be single sided, but if a 2X then double sided. - don > What are the differences (other than the obvious cosmetic differences) > between these two models? > > Thanks. > > > Doug Spence > ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Oct 13 15:18:30 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: 11/44 Available in NYC (fwd) Message-ID: An East Coast rescue opportunity... Replys/inquiries to the address shown in the attached message -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 07:11:27 -0400 From: Bob Schor To: Info-PDP11@transarc.com Subject: 11/44 Available in NYC I have just turned off a PDP-11/44 which has been pretty much continuously running since the early 1980's (I'm not sure when we got it from DEC). It is available to anyone who wants it, but you better act fast, as others are itching to get the room it is in (and will probably consign it to the dumpster). There are also two RK06 drives, but we haven't been using them for perhaps a decade (using a Winchester disk on a Dilog MSCP controller). There are also two DZ boards on this system, plus documentation (again, act quickly!). Give me a call or send e-mail ASAP. This machine is located at Rockefeller University in New York City. You would need to Come and Get It ... Bob Schor University of Pittsburgh (412) 647-2116 bschor@vms.cis.pitt.edu From scott at saskatoon.com Mon Oct 13 15:33:13 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <34426A03.E05@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: >> > and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular >> > computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least >> > listed in here! >> >> I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" >> would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a >> single manufacturer, anyway. >I dont' agree at all and like me all the magazines I have don't agree >either. The fact that you don't know it dos not mean that it is not >true. I don't recall what enrico said was the number of spectrums made, but the varying reports of number of C64s made range from 17-22 million. I'll leave the readers to draw their own conclusions so I don't have to endure the wrath of enrico. (and yes, I know there are other computers in the world... the statement here is 'most sold' and I'm assuming Commodore sold most of the C64s they built.) ttfn srw From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 13 17:50:17 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19971013175946.0089cf50@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Alan Richards wrote: > A friend of mine showed me a picture today in one of her text books of > kids using what appeared to be Apple]['s (or Apple//e's, it was a bad > picture). However, the name plate on the machines were visible, and they > said Bell & Howell. The same for the disk drives, which were obviously > Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they > did, did they license other companies as well? Yes and they were all black. I don't think Apple ever licensed the design to any other company, and I'm surprised that they even licensed it at all. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 13 17:52:02 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <34426A03.E05@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > Pity: there are many other things happening in the world, you know. I > think you should widen your horizons. Try having a look in my ite for a > start then do a little search on Sinclair and you will find at least 50 > sites dedicated to the Spectrum. English is not the most widely used > language in the world either (Mandarin is). It might not be connected > but it IS relevant to the point. Only because there are 1.2 billion Chinese. But what does this have to do with classic computers?? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 13 17:57:13 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Scott Walde wrote: > >> I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" > >> would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a > >> single manufacturer, anyway. > >I dont' agree at all and like me all the magazines I have don't agree > >either. The fact that you don't know it dos not mean that it is not > >true. > > I don't recall what enrico said was the number of spectrums made, but the > varying reports of number of C64s made range from 17-22 million. I'll > leave the readers to draw their own conclusions so I don't have to endure > the wrath of enrico. (and yes, I know there are other computers in the > world... the statement here is 'most sold' and I'm assuming Commodore > sold most of the C64s they built.) I'd have to think that this is, in fact, correct. Unless someone can point me in the direction of some hard facts concerning the production numbers of computers, the evidence that I have would seem to point to the Commodore 64 as being the most produced and sold. Their production run was from like 1982 to 1994 or something silly like that. By far it is the most common computer I run into, even more than TI's which are like dirt themselves. Point me to some actual statistics by a non-biased publication (ie. a magazine called "Sinclair Digest" would most likely contain weighted numbers). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 13 18:10:41 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> re: Vintage Computer Festival Writeups Message-ID: Hi all! Just thought I'd drop a note asking how everyone who has committed to do a writeup is doing with it? If you can start sending them my way I'd certainly appreciate it. E-mailing them to dastar@wco.com would be fine. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Oct 13 18:20:30 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? Message-ID: > A friend of mine showed me a picture today in one of her text books of >kids using what appeared to be Apple]['s (or Apple//e's, it was a bad >picture). However, the name plate on the machines were visible, and they >said Bell & Howell. The same for the disk drives, which were obviously >Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they >did, did they license other companies as well? Apple made the computers, but added the Bell & Howell logo onto them in order to enter the educational market - successfully, one might add. As far as I know it is the only case where Apple redaged their computers. There were also black Disk II drives for the system, but I am not aware of their being a black monitor to go with them. Although they don't exist here, I have heard that they are moderatly common in th US, but others would know better than me. I have been offered one to purchase, but the person making the offer was another one of these people who think that it is so "collectable" that they could ask what they like, for what was no more than a black Apple ][+. They are also commonly know as the Darth Vadar apples. Adam. From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Mon Oct 13 17:11:01 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <34429C75.22EC@ndirect.co.uk> Scott Walde wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > > >> > and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular > >> > computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least > >> > listed in here! > >> > >> I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" > >> would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a > >> single manufacturer, anyway. > >I dont' agree at all and like me all the magazines I have don't agree > >either. The fact that you don't know it dos not mean that it is not > >true. > > I don't recall what enrico said was the number of spectrums made, but the > varying reports of number of C64s made range from 17-22 million. I'll > leave the readers to draw their own conclusions so I don't have to endure > the wrath of enrico. (and yes, I know there are other computers in the > world... the statement here is 'most sold' and I'm assuming Commodore > sold most of the C64s they built.) > > ttfn > srw OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been produced in Russia, Portugal, Brasil, Hungaria, Corea and god know where else and surely many are not in any official statistics ...... Ciao enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Tue Oct 14 02:08:22 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> re: Vintage Computer Festival Writeups References: Message-ID: <34431A66.2494@ndirect.co.uk> Sam Ismail wrote: > > Hi all! > > Just thought I'd drop a note asking how everyone who has committed to do a > writeup is doing with it? If you can start sending them my way I'd > certainly appreciate it. E-mailing them to dastar@wco.com would be fine. > Thanks! > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! I am still owed an answer for the Spectrum exhibit! Thank you enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From bwilliams at blackbelt.com Tue Oct 14 01:27:59 1997 From: bwilliams at blackbelt.com (Ben Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Flex for 6809/6800 Message-ID: <344310EF.422E@blackbelt.com> Hi. In a web search, I came across your mention of FLEX for the 6809. FYI, I have a complete emulation system - a full boat 6809 machine which boots FLEX, which runs under Win95. There is also an older version that runs under the Amiga OS. You can learn about it (and get it) at: http://www.blackbelt.com/blackbelt/flexem.html -- Ben Williams (ARS AA7AS) email: bwilliams@blackbelt.com Black Belt Systems, Inc. State of the Art Image Manipulation Software Versions for: Win 3.1 - Win95 - Win NT (Alpha, MIPS, PowerPC & Intel) Web Pages: http://www.blackbelt.com/blackbelt/bx_top.html FTP: ftp.blackbelt.com/corporate/blackbelt/ Information: info@blackbelt.com Support: support@blackbelt.com Sales: sales@blackbelt.com Marketing: market@blackbelt.com From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue Oct 14 02:53:10 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: catching up Message-ID: <19971014005310.0022c331.in@mail.pressstart.com> >Enrico Tedeschi wrote: >.....and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular >computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least >listed in here! >Sam Ismail wrote: >Sure Enrico. Please do a write-up for the Spectrum. Also if you could, >please send a Sinclair Spectrum .......... >And I will be most happy to add it to the exhibition. They're pretty >hard to find over here in the sates. Sam, You know I have a few Spectrums, Spectrum+s, and a Spectrum+3 in my collection. I showed them to you. >Jason R. Brady wrote: > I've been making the rounds of Seattle-area thrift stores. Not much > CP/M stuff, mostly PC compatible. Found....... > How does this compare to thrift stores in other areas of the country? In the S.F.Bay Area, I find the best "finds" at a chain called Thrift Town. I think it's because they aren't picky about what they accept as donations. > Frank McConnell wrote: >I guess it's time for one of those questions I still don't have a good >answer for. Where the foo has all the SS-50 stuff gone? Or is it still >hiding? Or is it just not here in Sillycon Valley? Did anyone else besides Gimix and SWTPC produce SS-50 or SS-30 bus cards? I'm still looking for a 6800 processor card for my SWTP 6800. >Sam Ismail wrote: >I have some questions. First, I'm assuming mine is a later revision >because the motherboard has a date of 1990 on it. The CPU is a 68040. A couple of years ago I bought a NeXT motherboard with a 030 at foothill. It came in the box for a 040 "Upgrade kit" motherboard. >Sam Ismail wrote: >Ok, my NeXT cube is still booting. It keeps saying... I have a book called "The NeXT Book", covers hardware and software. Want to borrow it? For Trade: =================================== One very nice book for anyone interested in computer generated music. "Music by Computer", John Wiley and Sons,1969,139 pages,hardbound,dustcover edited by Heinz Von Foerster and James W. Beauchamp This book was started from papers submitted to the "Computers in Music" session at the 1966 Fall Joint Computer Conference in San Francisco. Authors are James W. Beauchamp, Herbert Brun, M. David Freedman, Lejaren Hiller, M.V. Mathews, J.R.Pierce, J.K.Randall, Arthur Roberts, L.Rosler, Gerald Strang, and Heinz Von Foerster. In a pocket in the back cover is four 7" floppy records with a total of 8 sides, containing examples of music and sounds to accompany each paper. The records are in excellent condition, no scratches. Example: "A Computer System for Time-Variant Harmonic Analysis and Synthesis of Musical Tones" James W. Beauchamp Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Electrical Engineering, University of Illinois. The music example is described as: "Musical Instrument Tones Synthetic versus Real Side 8 band 1,2,3 The example consist of a series of comparisons between some musical tones as they were original recorded in a sound chamber and the corresponding tones synthesized by digital computer .......... ..... The synthetic tones were produced by The CSX-1 computer (A/D conversion) A CDC 1604 (analysis) An IBM 7094 (tape conversion) The Illiac II computer (D/A conversion) Three musical instruments were synthesized: the flute,oboe,and cornet." =================================== A programming manual. SAIL August 1976, Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory Memo AIM-289 edited by John F.Reiser. Softcover, plastic "ring" bound, 173 pages The cover has been separated from the manual but otherwise it's in very good condition. "ABSTRACT Sail is a high level programing language for the PDP-10 computer. It includes an extended ALGOL 60 compiler and a companion set of execution- time routines............. This manual describes the Sail language and the execution-time routines for the typical Sail user: a non-novice programmer with some knowledge of ALGOL. It lies somewhere between being a tutorial and a reference manual." ====================================== If anyone cares: Friday night, the TRS-80 user group I belong to held a belated 20th birthday party for the TRS-80 Model I which was introduced August 3rd 1977. There was balloons, coffee, and donuts. Our resident guru first talked about the history. Then he brought out a Model I and went through the evolution of the Model I. Cassette, modem, expansion interface, disk drive, and hard drive. At the break, we had a contest playing lunar lander for the lowest score. The three lowest scores won software. Finds: Last weekend at the Livermore flea market I found a ELF II hiding in a box of junk. So I decided to put togather an ELF exhibit for the show consisting of the ELF II, an ELF home built from the 1977 PE construction articles, a Super ELF and the Super ELF in the S-100 Super Expansion Chassis. A few weeks ago I picked up an Amstrad PPC640 portable computer. Fold down keyboard,fold up LCD display - the only way I can describe it is - very sexxy. Others finds - APF M1000 (video game sys) and about 5 cartridges, a Coleco Telestar Arcade (triangular cartridge - cool), TI99 external floppy controller and external drive (never seen one before). And a DECmate III. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! ========================================= From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Oct 14 11:25:46 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Oct 13, 97 03:50:17 pm Message-ID: <9710141525.AA15184@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971014/3acdcdc1/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Oct 14 10:59:03 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Keypunch for 96 column cards? Message-ID: Ok gang, A discussion over the last few days got me thinking, so I need some assistance here. IBM introduced the 96 column 'soda-cracker' punch cards (example on my web pages if you need a bit of memory jogging) as the new form when they introduced the 'System 3' computer series. Now, while the System 3 had a reader/punch for these cards, I can't for the life of me ever remember seeing a stand-alone keypunch unit for this format card. So, the question(s): was there such a thing, what was the model number, and has anyone seen one in the Oregon area that might be obtainable??? (and... since I missed the last one to come by... has anyone seen an IBM 129 keypunch (std. 80 column cards) in the Oregon area that might be obtainable?) Thanks -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From manney at nwohio.com Mon Oct 13 15:21:59 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write Message-ID: <199710142132.OAA06724@mx4.u.washington.edu> They would have tp be packed (crated) *very* well, sealed, dessicant, and insured for everything up to and including strep infection of the motherboard. What if the people bang or drop the box? Anyone going over in a sailboat? manney -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Manney Date: Monday, October 13, 1997 5:44 AM Subject: Re: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write > > > >On Fri, 3 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > >> and what about the SINCLAIR SPECTRUM = the most sold and popular >> computer ever produced in the world? I think it should be at least >> listed in here! > >I think "the most sold and popular computer ever produced in the world" >would be the Commodore 64. If we're talking about machines made by a >single manufacturer, anyway. > >I've never, ever, EVER even come CLOSE to seeing a Sinclair Spectrum. >I've only seen pictures in magazines and on the web. > >I'd love to find some of those Euro machines over here in Canada. Maybe >the North American readers should try to get a group together to order >Euro machines in bulk for shipment. All of the common ones and some of >the uncommon ones. We'd need the cooperation of the collectors in Europe, >of course. > >There are tons of machines from Acorn I'd love to have/see, a few from >Sinclair, Oric, etc. > >All I find over here are C64s, VIC-20s, Apple ][s, TI-99s, CoCos, and >occasionally a Kaypro. > >If we shipped in bulk, and used actual ocean-going vessels for shipment, >how expensive would this kind of venture be? > > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > > > From bpvh at primenet.com Tue Oct 14 18:09:34 1997 From: bpvh at primenet.com (Bradley P. Von Haden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software Message-ID: <199710142309.QAA29875@usr06.primenet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971014/fa8b7187/attachment.ksh From bpvh at primenet.com Tue Oct 14 18:09:48 1997 From: bpvh at primenet.com (Bradley P. Von Haden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Need Apple II GS Software Message-ID: <199710142309.QAA29903@usr06.primenet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971014/63961836/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Oct 14 21:13:55 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: looking for northstar dos... Message-ID: <199710150213.AA24446@world.std.com> Is there anywhere on the net northstar* dos version 5.x for DD controllers. My archives only have the single density version. Allison From dastar at wco.com Tue Oct 14 21:25:11 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <34429C75.22EC@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the > world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not Oh, so you didn't actually check your facts then? > excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is > NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been > produced in Russia, Portugal, Brasil, Hungaria, Corea and god know where > else and surely many are not in any official statistics ...... Actually, the USA *IS* the centre of the world. And the UNIVERSE for that matter. And we *HATE* the Spectrum in the USA. The Spectrum is un-American, and we American's hate things that aren't American, because America is the BEST! And don't you forget that you euro-trash! There you go, Enrico. The abuse you are screaming out for. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 14 21:34:50 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Mac stuff (was: Wanted Misc Parts) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971014193507.2ab7f5a0@mail.crl.com> >I'd also love to get my hands on a IIci system (for real use) and a Mac As an aside, if anyone has Mac stuff they don't want, my girlfriend can always use more computers in her classroom. We especially need monitors, video cards, scsi CD-ROM drives, and hard drives (<100mb is fine.) Any flavor of mac is fine, though IIsi/ci+ is preferred. Of course, if you want to donate a PowerMac... 8^) Also, if there's anyone in the bay area who knows about fixing/tuning monitors, we could sure use some help there. Or, if you know anything about setting up a Mac network, I'm gonna try and do that, so if you want to volunteer to answer questions, drop me a note too. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 14 21:35:11 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971014193528.29173c6e@mail.crl.com> At 05:35 AM 10/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >the North American readers should try to get a group together to order >Euro machines in bulk for shipment. All of the common ones and some of >If we shipped in bulk, and used actual ocean-going vessels for shipment, >how expensive would this kind of venture be? I know people who ship container-loads (and less) of Land Rover parts over from across the pond all the time, for not too significant amounts. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Oct 15 00:12:23 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple References: <199710140702.AAA03658@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <344450B6.33C2@goldrush.com> Having just seen some ads for them in older BYTE Magazines, the B&H ads stated that their Apples had only two differences, a black case and a much longer warranty (sometimg like a year or two longer then Apple's), As I recall they cost a little more too. ===-=?=-=-=-=?=-=-===?======?=-=-=?=-=====-==== Also will have a seemingly dead "original Mac" (model number M0001) for sale at the swap, my wife asked me to buy it and after I did she learned it is not a machine you can do much on the internet with, much less have it "read" your newsgroup/E-mail captures... Too divergent from my Commodore collection and have no desire to convert it to a fish tank (I hear many older Macs suffered that fate) so it goes to swap. ;) Commodore information pages. I've almost got almost all the pics scanned and still have a few more pages of history but it will be done in time Sam. (it should look nice, color inkjet!) BTW I am just going through the 8-bits, Early Commodore History, as well as a few scans/copies of older promotional literature, should be a treat for the Commodore fan to peruse. (It reminds me of all the promotional flyers I had tossed in my youth, a Commodore PET glassy ad in color... A VIC-20 color glossy sheet, and of course, that stack of Creative Computings and Electronic Games magazines **ouch!** just kicked myself again...) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Wed Oct 15 02:12:47 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups References: Message-ID: <34446CEF.520C@ndirect.co.uk> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > > > OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the > > world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not > > Oh, so you didn't actually check your facts then? > > > excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is > > NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been > > produced in Russia, Portugal, Brasil, Hungaria, Corea and god know where > > else and surely many are not in any official statistics ...... > > Actually, the USA *IS* the centre of the world. And the UNIVERSE for > that matter. And we *HATE* the Spectrum in the USA. The Spectrum is > un-American, and we American's hate things that aren't American, because > America is the BEST! > > And don't you forget that you euro-trash! > Here we go again....if it makes you happy..... I am still waiting for your answer abotu the Spectrum exhibit. Thank you enrico > There you go, Enrico. The abuse you are screaming out for. From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 15 01:29:49 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971014233007.403ff22e@ricochet.net> At 03:50 PM 10/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >> Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they >> did, did they license other companies as well? > >Yes and they were all black. I don't think Apple ever licensed the design >to any other company, and I'm surprised that they even licensed it at all. My money says that Apple licensed the II to B&H as a way of getting into schools. B&H made projectors and such for the school market and so buyers are far more likely to buy a Bell and Howell computer than some machine from some company nobody ever heard of. And once the computers were in place, Apple could get in the door by selling Bell and Howell clones... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 15 01:29:53 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971014233014.403ff6c6@ricochet.net> At 03:52 PM 10/13/97 -0700, you wrote: >> start then do a little search on Sinclair and you will find at least 50 >> sites dedicated to the Spectrum. English is not the most widely used And how many C64 sites would show up? Of course, I'd gladly trade you half a dozen C64's for just about any Sinclair... Regardless of whatever, can we remove some of the chips from shoulders and just get on with collecting computers? Or, if you all want to duke it out, send me all your computers first so you don't get blood on them. Then go somewhere else. > language in the world either (Mandarin is). It might not be connected > but it IS relevant to the point. In 1987, the population of china increased by 15 million. Meanwhile, the entire population of Australia in 1987 was 15 million. (Doncha just love Pop-up video?) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 15 01:30:10 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971014233029.403fddb2@ricochet.net> At 10:11 PM 10/13/97 +0000, you wrote: >OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the >world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not >excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is There is no excuse needed. People buy/use/collect what they know. Here in the US, we know about C64's and such. People in the states don't collect british coinage much either. They collect what they know. Thanks to the net, however, we can find out more about other computers/countries easily. By all means, tell us about Spectrums, and why we should think they're better than commodores. Sinclair certainly didn't bother to tell us about them. In exchange, we'll be happy to tell you about US computers you may not have heard of. >NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been Actually, for me anyway, it is. I live here. (and, btw, probably for the VCF, which, coincidentally, is taking place in the US.) (But next year, I'll probably be travelling to the UK for Billing '98 (the 50th) when I'll pick up some Sinclairs!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Wed Oct 15 01:53:09 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: UPS Shipping Message-ID: <34446855.30AF@oboe.calpoly.edu> Has anyone else had to deal with the new UPS guidelines? Our shipping counter has introduced new guidelines for shipping computers. Any computer must be double boxed and packed in 4" of foam. Ok fine. But you can't use peanuts. Oh, and if it's a computer that works, it will be unpacked, tested, repacked then shipped. If it doesn't work it will be returned to you. Good luck. I see the point if they were checking $500 laptops or more. Most stuff I ship is valued at $30 or less. But there are no limits on value for this procedure. I figured it was worth the chance of paying a $30 claim for them not to go through all that. But all computer products and possibly all electronic products will be inspected. On top of this, all computer parts like keyboards, etc must be packed individually and shipped individually. Nothing like 2x, 3x, 4x...shipping costs. So much for those lots of extra parts. I think I'll be writing "household goods" or "books" on my shipments from now on. Either that or start sending my stuff there for the "$5 testing special"! From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 15 02:51:51 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Atari PC's Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971015005210.09c73c36@ricochet.net> For those who thought Atari only made proprietary stuff... Ran across an Atari PC for sale at: Seems to be a ebay-style auction site. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Oct 14 17:36:43 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Keypunch for 96 column cards? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199710151010.GAA21665@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:59:03 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: James Willing > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Keypunch for 96 column cards? > Ok gang, > A discussion over the last few days got me thinking, so I need some > assistance here. > > IBM introduced the 96 column 'soda-cracker' punch cards (example on my web > pages if you need a bit of memory jogging) as the new form when they > introduced the 'System 3' computer series. > > Now, while the System 3 had a reader/punch for these cards, I can't for > the life of me ever remember seeing a stand-alone keypunch unit for this > format card. > > So, the question(s): was there such a thing, what was the model number, > and has anyone seen one in the Oregon area that might be obtainable??? > > (and... since I missed the last one to come by... has anyone seen an IBM > 129 keypunch (std. 80 column cards) in the Oregon area that might be > obtainable?) > > Thanks I worked as a "jr. IBM operator" in 1955-56 and seem to remember a couple of new and different key-punch units among the 30-odd 80 col units in the keypunch room. I don't recall seeing different cards tho Possiby the system 3 came out after I left, but since I didn't work in there (entry was done by ex-typists, all female ) and the main-frames were in a secure room , I could have missed it. One of the most interesting and I imagine rare machines I worked on was a statistical sorter which counted the hits on each row in the columns you desired and then output a report according to how you had wired the board. Don't remember it's model number ,or any of them for that matter.( G ) I spent about a month on it putting out the annual report. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Oct 14 17:36:43 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals In-Reply-To: References: <199710110636.CAA14368@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Oct 10, 97 05:57:53 pm Message-ID: <199710151010.GAA21673@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:08:21 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Tony Duell > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: IBM 3101 terminals > > > > > > > > > > > > If I had space, I'd be tempted to offer one a home. But I haven't :-( > > > > > > You mean I'm not the olnly classiccmp member to have a space problem... > > > > > > Seriously, other than moving (or collecting pocket calculators), is there > > > a cure to having more computers than floorspace for them? > > > > > Get rid of your couch and bed. They're taking up usefull space. Lofts > > can also be suspended from the ceiling. : ^ )) > > Couch : Have done... > > Bed : Oh come on. I need a soft surface to put CRT's down on to avoid > scratching the faceplate... > > And you can't easily suspend 50kg+ machines from the ceiling. They tend > to fall down.. That's quite apart from the fact that many of the piles > that start at the floor already touch the ceiling. > > > > DE9 (PC serial port, Atari joystick, etc) > > > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC games port, etc) -- The one we're talking about > > > DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port, etc) > > > DC37 (PC external disk port, Canon CX engine interface, etc) > > > DD50 (Sun SCSI port, etc) > > > > > > The high-density ones are : > > > > > > DE15 (PC VGA monitor) > > > DA?? (Never seen it) > > > DB44 (Never seen it used, but it's in the catalogues) > > > DC62 (PC expansion cabinet, etc) > > > > > > -tony > > > > > Sorry to differ from my more knowledgeable co-respondents, > > but I had an XT clone which had a DB15 RS2 serial port. > > There certainly were machines that used a 15 pin connector for the serial > port. But... > > a) That connector is a DA15, not a DB15. A DB15 would be the physical > size of a normal 25 pin connector, but with only 15 pins. It doesn't > exist AFAIK. > > b) Doesn't one of the RS232-a-like standards (maybe RS232, maybe EIA232, > maybe V24, maybe...) actually specify a 25 pin connector? > > > > I searched in vain to find an adaptor for an external modem > > and finally installed an internal one. 2 rows in a D shell. > > Adaptor == DA15 connector, DB25 connector, piece of wire, solder... > > > > > ciao larry > > -tony > I take it youve already divested yourself of wife, kids ,and cats hmmm ? ; ^ )) I should have examined your designations more closely. I had always thought that the DB-n ,designated shell-type and called the Atari, C64, etc. connectors DB-9 's and the 25 pin ones db-25 s' . Obviously the second letter is a further qualifier. I'l have to look it up. Live and learn. IIRC even the manual that came with this Best MARK4 xt clone referred to it as a db-15 . ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Oct 14 17:36:43 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: <34513979.3024769@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: <199710151010.GAA21679@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: William Donzelli > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Info on things old wanted... > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > I received a bit of mail from a buddy: > > >1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a desk > >2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m) > > >The digitizing machine and pad are connected by some hefty > >wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta > >cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look > >at it first. > > Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the > IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? This might be the beginning of an epistimological revision to rival that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any kind of new pop music. Or is it that the caps,diodes, and transistors are miniturized on modern computer chips ? Or that the instructions for routing of info for processing is done on disk rather than by plug-boards ? They'll have to rename the Brabbage Museum to Gates. Another victory for King Bill !! Lets hope not. ciao Larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Oct 15 13:28:57 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: UPS Shipping Message-ID: <9709158769.AA876947474@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Has anyone else had to deal with the new UPS guidelines? Our shipping > counter has introduced new guidelines for shipping computers. Any > computer must be double boxed and packed in 4" of foam. Ok fine. But you > can't use peanuts. Oh, and if it's a computer that works, it will be > unpacked, tested, repacked then shipped. If it doesn't work it will be > returned to you. Good luck. Ouch! But I've not heard of UPS (apart from as an abbreviation for Uninterruptible Power Supply). Is this a shipping company, a regulatory body or something else? > I see the point if they were checking $500 laptops or more. Most stuff I > ship is valued at $30 or less. But there are no limits on value for this > procedure. I figured it was worth the chance of paying a $30 claim for > them not to go through all that. But all computer products and possibly > all electronic products will be inspected. Brilliant! What if I'm not a hacker? My computer breaks down. I ship it to the manufacturer for repair. Oh dear, it's just been returned to me - they can't ship it because it failed on test... > On top of this, all computer parts like keyboards, etc must be packed > individually and shipped individually. Nothing like 2x, 3x, > 4x...shipping costs. So much for those lots of extra parts. Splendid! What about the IBM System/23 that fails diagnostics if the printer isn't connected (although this can be bypassed)? What if I do ship the keyboard separately for some obscure machine? How are they going to test it then? Will they even know which keyboard belongs to which computer? Not easy to tell at a glance (say) a PS/2 keyboard from an RS/6000 one (don't ask how I found that out!) > I think I'll be writing "household goods" or "books" on my shipments > from now on. Either that or start sending my stuff there for the "$5 > testing special"! Basically this sounds like some well-meaning bureaucrat making rules before thinking through the implications. How about "computer parts" for a shipment description, though? It's accurate for a computer, an incomplete computer, a broken computer or a box of computers... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 15 09:14:18 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: UPS Shipping In-Reply-To: <34446855.30AF@oboe.calpoly.edu> from "Greg Mast" at Oct 14, 97 11:53:09 pm Message-ID: <9710151314.AA21650@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1361 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971015/2bc2363a/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 15 09:22:11 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971014233007.403ff22e@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Oct 15, 97 01:29:49 am Message-ID: <9710151322.AA20474@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971015/dd9f6b38/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Wed Oct 15 08:23:46 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: <199710151010.GAA21679@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: > > Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the > > IBM card machine may be > pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything > without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? This whole family of data processing machines is commonly called "unit record equipment". Yes, the stuff does process data just as a modern database can, but they are really not general purpose data crunchers like a "standard" computer. > This might be the beginning of an epistimological revision to rival > that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any > kind of new pop music. The lines of history are often very blurry. Rarely does anything get invented or changed in an instant of time. Data processing machines are no exception, but one does have to come up with some naming conventions, or use ones already in place. I was just using an existing one. And no, I never implied that computers started with LSI chips - as a few of you people know, I collect minis mostly, and two of my machines do not have integrated circuits at all. I still call them computers (OK, one is actually a calculator, but I am not going to open that can of worms). William Donzelli william@ans.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Oct 15 08:53:19 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: <971015095243_-293839343@emout11.mail.aol.com> oh jeez, not again! didnt we have this holy war for several weeks earlier this year about something similar? put it in private, please! david In a message dated 97-10-15 02:22:33 EDT, you write: << Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > > > OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the > > world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not > > Oh, so you didn't actually check your facts then? > > > excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is > > NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been > > produced in Russia, Portugal, Brasil, Hungaria, Corea and god know where > > else and surely many are not in any official statistics ...... > > Actually, the USA *IS* the centre of the world. And the UNIVERSE for > that matter. And we *HATE* the Spectrum in the USA. The Spectrum is > un-American, and we American's hate things that aren't American, because > America is the BEST! > > And don't you forget that you euro-trash! > Here we go again....if it makes you happy..... I am still waiting for your answer abotu the Spectrum exhibit. Thank you enrico > There you go, Enrico. The abuse you are screaming out for. >> From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Oct 15 08:47:38 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:15 2005 Subject: Keypunch fro 96 column cards Message-ID: <3444C97A.348E3346@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> James Willing asked: > Now, while the System 3 had a reader/punch for these cards, I can't for > the life of me ever remember seeing a stand-alone keypunch unit for this > format card. I may be showing my age here ;-) but I definitely have used a 96 column card punch. That would have been soon after I joined Burroughs in the early '70s. It was most certainly a Burroughs or Burroughs badged product. As far as finding any, sorry can't help there. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Oct 15 09:05:44 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups Message-ID: <199710151400.JAA11602@sunflower.com> I am the proud owner of a Timex Sinclair 1500 with 2050 modem, and im American enough since I have my own firearm. Now be nice. ---------- > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 8:53 AM > > oh jeez, not again! didnt we have this holy war for several weeks earlier > this year about something similar? put it in private, please! > > david > > In a message dated 97-10-15 02:22:33 EDT, you write: > > << Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, e.tedeschi wrote: > > > > > OK, even if it is the second (third, etc.) most sold computer in the > > > world it is still one of the most popular ever produced and it does not > > > > Oh, so you didn't actually check your facts then? > > > > > excuse the complete lack of interest that it gets in the States. USA is > > > NOT the centre of the world, you know. Spectrum clones have been > > > produced in Russia, Portugal, Brasil, Hungaria, Corea and god know where > > > else and surely many are not in any official statistics ...... > > > > Actually, the USA *IS* the centre of the world. And the UNIVERSE for > > that matter. And we *HATE* the Spectrum in the USA. The Spectrum is > > un-American, and we American's hate things that aren't American, because > > America is the BEST! > > > > And don't you forget that you euro-trash! > > > Here we go again....if it makes you happy..... > > I am still waiting for your answer abotu the Spectrum exhibit. > > Thank you > > enrico > > There you go, Enrico. The abuse you are screaming out for. >> From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Oct 15 08:53:49 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: System statistics debate Message-ID: <3444CAED.327E78ED@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Gentlemen, Perhaps I can calm the waters a little by pointing out that the statistical claims made by Sinclair regarding the ZX and Spectrum computers were quite probably true AT THAT TIME. Numbers have a habit of changing over time especially when companies go bankrupt. So any such claims must always be considered in the context that they were made. I would presume that the IBM PC and its clones probably handily wins the statistical race today, but we can always hope that that will change in the future ;-) -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Oct 15 09:27:01 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Old PC Mag article + Bit Rot Message-ID: <01bcd976$673c3aa0$LocalHost@shared1> This weekend, my uncle gave me issues #2 and #3 of PC Magazine, in addition to issue 1 of PC World. Anywa, issues 2 and 3 of PC Mag had a great article on the Altair which carried over from issue 1 and continued forward. Does anyone have copies of the other parts of the article?? Second, on the topic of bit rot, what is the "BRQ" (bit-rot quotient, or time to bit rot) for older 5-1/4" diskettes and EPROMS? Third, does anyone have a copy of Copy-II-PC? Thanks again! Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971015/ca4d46ba/attachment.html From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Oct 15 11:03:10 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts Message-ID: <199710151557.KAA17659@sunflower.com> If I wanted to get a hold of a european computer, 220v, 50hz PAL with RBG, then? 1) would it work an an RGB monitor. 2) if the machine just used a poweradapter like 9v, like the old atari's is the 50/60hz thing that critical? Im looking into a Spectrum128, or Russian Scorpion. What do you all think? From william at ans.net Wed Oct 15 13:12:44 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.0068f9f0@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > HP3000 types and a couple of stripped down mainframes (not IBM's). Do tell... William Donzelli william@ans.net From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 15 14:17:13 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971014233007.403ff22e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:50 PM 10/13/97 -0700, you wrote: > >> Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they > >> did, did they license other companies as well? > > > >Yes and they were all black. I don't think Apple ever licensed the design > >to any other company, and I'm surprised that they even licensed it at all. > > My money says that Apple licensed the II to B&H as a way of getting into > schools. B&H made projectors and such for the school market and so buyers > are far more likely to buy a Bell and Howell computer than some machine from > some company nobody ever heard of. > > And once the computers were in place, Apple could get in the door by selling > Bell and Howell clones... Certainly both possible, but I would be more willing to believe that B&H contracted with Apple to supply the rebadged units to support their technical training and correspondence courses. - don > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Oct 15 14:21:09 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Old PC Mag article + Bit Rot Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971015152109.0099f7d0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Richard A. Cini said: > Second, on the topic of bit rot, what is the "BRQ" (bit-rot quotient, or time to bit rot) for older 5-1/4" diskettes and EPROMS? The whole "BRQ" thing had been discussed shortly after the beginning of the list, and most of the wonderful suggestions/opinions/facts/data exists in a FAQ that was created from many of the first discussions... Unforch, I haven't a URL really handy... Bill Whitson should know of it's location, tho. Hey-ho Bill--- are you up and around yet??? May have the URL at home, but Wifey wants shelves up tonite... I guess I won't be dialing in this evening........ HTH, tho it's not much I know, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 15 15:35:50 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Old PC Mag article + Bit Rot In-Reply-To: <01bcd976$673c3aa0$LocalHost@shared1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Oct 15, 97 10:27:01 am Message-ID: <9710151935.AA22674@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971015/efb0cdcd/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 15 16:53:01 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: I picked up a copy of this book, as it seems quite handy. It has lots of info on older, long since discontinued drives. The local MicroCenter here in Dallas has a giant pile of them for something like $5 each; it says list $49.99 so this may be a bargain. If there is any interest, I could pick up a few to send elsewhere. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 15 18:00:26 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition In-Reply-To: from "Matt Pritchard" at Oct 15, 97 04:53:01 pm Message-ID: <9710152200.AA20943@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 317 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971015/b2fe747c/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 15 17:12:08 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Oct 15 17:41:45 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Well, this is it. Message-ID: I'm quitting my job. I'll be saving all my PDP stuff, minus the rack (Can't haul it, probably losing it.) Please unsubscribe me from the list. I'll resub when I get my new mail address. Good luck to all. Daniel Seagraves From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Oct 15 18:36:06 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Wait... Message-ID: I may have saved myself - don't unsub me yet - this might work out... From dwalterm at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 15 21:16:03 1997 From: dwalterm at ix.netcom.com (dwalterm@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts Message-ID: <1997101519915441@> On 10/15/97 11:03:10 you wrote: > >If I wanted to get a hold of a european computer, 220v, 50hz PAL with RBG, >then? > >1) would it work an an RGB monitor. > >2) if the machine just used a poweradapter like 9v, like the old atari's is >the 50/60hz thing that critical? > >Im looking into a Spectrum128, or Russian Scorpion. > >What do you all think? > > I can share my personal experience.... I have a Spectrum +2 here in the United States. It works fine. For power I use a small 110/220 inverter available from places like Jameco and JDR. That allows me to use the original power supply. The Spectrums also can work off a standard 9 volt wall wart. Some models use over 1 amp so its more like a wall brick. For video a normal RGB monitor like the Magnavox RGB-80 (Many Commodore versions 1084,1902,etc) works fine. If you are a Sinclair fan, the video pinout is exactly the same as the Sinclair QL (8 pin din). The 50/60 Hz "thing" doesn't matter. Please be aware there are very few Spectrums with RGB output. The +2 is one model. The Spectrum 128 also is supposed to have RGB output but I have not seen one. I also have seen regular Spectrums (48k and the Spectrum+) in use over here in the US. To do that you need to convert the output to RGB. A product called the Spectrum RGB output module by Adapt electronics does exactly that. Good luck finding one. Our local Sinclair group has one. After a lot of investigation it was determined that power supply voltages have to be right on the money for it to work. Another alternative is a DIY project that is posted on some Spectrum web pages. Good luck with the schematic and documentation (all in German!). I'd be very interested in your progress. Don Walterman dwalterm@ix.netcom.com From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 15 23:38:57 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts References: <199710151557.KAA17659@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <34459A61.2D3F@worldnet.att.net> Bill Girnius wrote: > > If I wanted to get a hold of a european computer, 220v, 50hz PAL with RBG, > then? > > 1) would it work an an RGB monitor. You would have to check out the frequency of the original monitor and make sure you can match that on a Local one, check out the peak to peak voltage for the signal also, some are 1V peak to peak others are 0.7V peak to peak. Also the polarity and voltage of the Synch signal might be different. > > 2) if the machine just used a poweradapter like 9v, like the old atari's is > the 50/60hz thing that critical? if the power adapter delivers 9VDC you should be in good shape, if it is 9VAC then you might want to find out if any of the AC juice is used before the bridge and regulator. > > Im looking into a Spectrum128, or Russian Scorpion. > > What do you all think? -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From doug at the-one.com Wed Oct 15 22:04:08 1997 From: doug at the-one.com (Doug Rich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: looking for northstar dos... In-Reply-To: <199710150213.AA24446@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971015210408.00746284@mail.wco.com> I think I do. I will have to go through several boxes to find them. Give me a day or two to find them. Doug At 10:13 PM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Is there anywhere on the net northstar* dos version 5.x for DD controllers. >My archives only have the single density version. > >Allison > > > From kuefel at sky.net Thu Oct 16 02:03:10 1997 From: kuefel at sky.net (Mark W Kuefel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Would be drop out References: Message-ID: <3445BC2E.6AC9@sky.net> I asked before but got no reply. Can anyone tell me how to a. drop off the list b. switch from firehose to digest mode ? Please excuse the excessive bandwidth. -- Mark W Kuefel kuefel@sky.net and THE COLISEUM SLAVE (Netwrecker II) From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 16 01:28:21 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Would be drop out References: <3445BC2E.6AC9@sky.net> Message-ID: <3445B405.CFE8C5C6@rain.org> Mark W Kuefel wrote: > I asked before but got no reply. Can anyone tell me how to > a. drop off the list > b. switch from firehose to digest mode > ? Since the process to subscribe to the listserver is: Send a message to listproc@u.washington.edu with the line subscribe CLASSICCMP your-address in the body of the message. I suspect the process to unsubscribe would be the same except to substitute "unsubscribe" for the word "subscribe" in the above message. From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 16 01:41:12 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Neat find: Maxx Steele Robot References: <3445BC2E.6AC9@sky.net> Message-ID: <3445B707.B8AD4049@rain.org> I visited a local thrift store today and found a Maxx Steele Robot for about $10.00 untested. It looked like a lot of fun so I picked it up. The robot came with the charger, manual, controller, no battery, and some sort of hand mirror which I am guessing can be used in some manner to control it. It didn't have a battery so I put a 12 volt gel cell in it, but it still didn't work. A number of engineers were here tonight, and while I was cooking, they ended up getting the thing to work (the gel cell I used was either uncharged, or there was a bad connection to the battery.) In looking around the web, it seems that it uses a 65C02 processor as the CPU. One web page I found indicated that there were only about 5000 of these things made. I hadn't really planned to collect robots ... but then again, I hadn't planned on collecting computers either :). From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 15 22:15:33 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts In-Reply-To: <199710151557.KAA17659@sunflower.com> Message-ID: >If I wanted to get a hold of a european computer, 220v, 50hz PAL with RBG, >then? > >1) would it work an an RGB monitor. I'm quite honestly not sure on this one. I think it would depend. For example I'm pretty sure I've had both PAL and NTSC Amiga's working on the same Commodore 2002 monitor. Here is a really crazy way to get your display that I've used. I've got a PowerMac 8500/180 which is one of the AV capable Macs. Just for kicks one day I decided to set up one of my computers up using it for the Display. Works great, now on my 20" monitor I can have any of the cool computer from the 80's in a window. Beat's playing with emulators :^) The only problem is the two keyboards (and sometimes mice), and you can't cut and paste between the two :^) I can handle NTSC, PAL, and SECAM this way. Plus it would cut down on the clutter IF I didn't have so many computers set up right now :^) I've no idea what the standard PC A/V boards can handle, but I would hope a good one would be simular. >2) if the machine just used a poweradapter like 9v, like the old atari's is >the 50/60hz thing that critical? I won't guarentee it, but if you are providing your own power adapter, instead of trying to use the one that came with the computer I don't think you will have a problem. >Im looking into a Spectrum128, or Russian Scorpion. Cool! Another bit of advice would be to post this question on comp.sys.amiga.hardware since all new Amiga's come out of Europe for the most part, someone there probably has practical experience at it. Also the old powersupply is a good source of the necessary plug to stick in the computer (of course this means destroying the PS). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Oct 15 22:34:36 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Atari PC's In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971015005210.09c73c36@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >For those who thought Atari only made proprietary stuff... > >Ran across an Atari PC for sale at: > > > >Seems to be a ebay-style auction site. You gotta give the guy credit for trying, this is the second time he's had this thing up there. No one seems to want to place a minimum bid of $100 on it, imagine that :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Oct 16 08:52:00 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... Message-ID: <9709168770.AA877017316@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > IBM card machine may be > pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything > without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? Eeek! What's it got to do with LSI? Surely that just means that computers started with the Manchester Small Scale Experimental Machine in 1948? (For details, see http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/prog98/ ) Personally, I think that the later (Ferranti?) machines with ferrite plug programming were also computers, but there you are... Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Oct 16 08:54:48 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals Message-ID: <9709168770.AA877017337@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I take it youve already divested yourself of wife, kids ,and cats > hmmm ? ; ^ )) Never had any of those! (although I'd quite like a cat!) Biggest coup I pulled was when I persuaded my parents to pay L10000 towards buying my house, just to get my collection out of theirs. Philip. From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Oct 16 04:33:55 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Join Classic Computer Mailing List Message-ID: <19971016093829.AAC15350@hotze> Hello. I would like to join your mailing list. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 16 08:50:59 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: <199710161401.HAA09790@mx4.u.washington.edu> I'll take a couple, please, if you're taking orders. I saw them at $30, but all I need are jumper settings sections. EZDrive (which comes with WD Hard Drives) is a good reference, has jumper settings and other neat stuff. Tell me how much you want for your time and shipping, and I'll send you a check. Thanks for offering. Manney@nwohio.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Manney Date: Wednesday, October 15, 1997 6:08 PM Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition >I picked up a copy of this book, as it seems quite handy. It has lots >of info on older, long since discontinued drives. > >The local MicroCenter here in Dallas has a giant pile of them for >something like $5 each; it says list $49.99 so this may be a bargain. >If there is any interest, I could pick up a few to send elsewhere. > >-Matt Pritchard >Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > > > > From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Oct 16 10:45:54 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell making Apples? In-Reply-To: References: <1.5.4.16.19971014233007.403ff22e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: > > At 03:50 PM 10/13/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >> Disk]['s. Did Apple license Bell & Howell to make these machines? If they > > >> did, did they license other companies as well? > > > > > >Yes and they were all black. I don't think Apple ever licensed the design > > >to any other company, and I'm surprised that they even licensed it at all. > > > > My money says that Apple licensed the II to B&H as a way of getting into > > schools. B&H made projectors and such for the school market and so buyers > > are far more likely to buy a Bell and Howell computer than some machine from > > some company nobody ever heard of. > > > > And once the computers were in place, Apple could get in the door by selling > > Bell and Howell clones... > > Certainly both possible, but I would be more willing to believe that B&H > contracted with Apple to supply the rebadged units to support their > technical training and correspondence courses. > ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - don > This sounds right to me; IIRC, in the mid to late 70's Bell & Howell was really into selling big, fancy correspondence electronics training, ala C.I.E. (from which I got most of my formal training, BTW). It seems you got a Heathkit Color TV, some heath test equipment, etc. The ads showed up alot in Mechanix Illustrated, Popular Electronics, etc. I've never seen it, but I imagine later training programs in computer programming would have used these Black Apples. As an aside, Bell+Howell certainly wasn't new to the education scene-- I can remember when I was in grade school, when Sr. Mary Painful would show a film strip, she would break out the charcoal and teal B+H filmstrip projector. . . . . Jeff From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Thu Oct 16 11:28:43 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: UPS Shipping Message-ID: <344640BB.180A@oboe.calpoly.edu> > Yeah, my local UPS service desk implemented these rules 4 or 5 > months ago. I understand, to some extent, UPS's position: they've > been hit by many damage claims over the past couple years by clueless > morons shipping PC-clone type hardware. I, of course, feel > that the rules should be different when the object that I'm shipping > is solid steel and over twenty years old. That doesn't matter to > the UPS droids; it's a "computer part" and they won't ship it. Odd that they can't have a waiver of responsibility. Usually the only thing I'm worried about is losing the package. > 1. Avoid the UPS desk and ship through a "Mailboxes" type place or > (if you're lucky) your employer. The "Mailboxes" type places can > charge substantially more than the actual UPS costs, in many cases. The person at the UPS counter actually recommended this. They do charge that shipping fee though. > 2. Avoid UPS and use USPS or FedEx. USPS or FedEx are far more intelligent > choices for shipping between the US and Canada - they don't charge > a minimum of $30-$40 in processing fees for items with values less than > $5, for starters! For Canada USPS is great. For domestic, they're more expensive. I just think they need to rewrite their guidelines to allow for this stuff. If I was shipping a nice laptop or something extremely valuable, FedEx would definetly be worth it! I think another way would be to pay the one time $5 pickup fee for home pickup. Save all the boxes for one pickup. The counter person said they only do the inspections for counter dropoffs. Interesting. She said they paid out like $800k in computer insurance claims. Then a supervisor saw a usenet post about "getting your computer fixed cheap". Supposedly outlining a way to ship it UPS then file a claim. I see their point but I wonder how much they're losing in business? See, it's that evil internet again. Greg From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Thu Oct 16 02:41:11 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts References: <1997101519915441@> Message-ID: <3445C517.6F9F@ndirect.co.uk> dwalterm@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > On 10/15/97 11:03:10 you wrote: > > > >If I wanted to get a hold of a european computer, 220v, 50hz PAL with RBG, > >then? > > > >1) would it work an an RGB monitor. > > > >2) if the machine just used a poweradapter like 9v, like the old atari's is > >the 50/60hz thing that critical? > > > >Im looking into a Spectrum128, or Russian Scorpion. > > > >What do you all think? > > > > > > I can share my personal experience.... I have a Spectrum +2 here in the United States. > It works fine. For power I use a small 110/220 inverter available from places like > Jameco and JDR. That allows me to use the original power supply. The Spectrums > also can work off a standard 9 volt wall wart. Some models use over 1 amp so its more like a > wall brick. For video a normal RGB monitor like the Magnavox RGB-80 (Many Commodore versions > 1084,1902,etc) works fine. If you are a Sinclair fan, the video pinout is exactly the same as > the Sinclair QL (8 pin din). The 50/60 Hz "thing" doesn't matter. > Please be aware there are very few Spectrums with RGB output. The +2 is one model. The > Spectrum 128 also is supposed to have RGB output but I have not seen one. I also have > seen regular Spectrums (48k and the Spectrum+) in use over here in the US. To do that > you need to convert the output to RGB. A product called the Spectrum RGB output module > by Adapt electronics does exactly that. Good luck finding one. Our local Sinclair group has one. > After a lot of investigation it was determined that power supply voltages have to be right on > the money for it to work. Another alternative is a DIY project that is posted on some Spectrum > web pages. Good luck with the schematic and documentation (all in German!). I'd be very > interested in your progress. > > Don Walterman > dwalterm@ix.netcom.com There is no need to go into all this mess. Just buy a universal adaptor of the appropriate power and voltage and plug it it. As for the output when you convert a Spectrum 48 etc. you only get VIDEOCOMPOSITE output NOT RGB which is good for ordinary monitors. Hope this will be useful. enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Oct 16 12:41:47 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings Message-ID: <344651DB.B8EAE1AF@halcyon.com> I have an Archive FT60 tape drive (uses DC600A cartridges) that I am trying to install. I don't have complete information on the jumper settings of the adapter card (8-bit ISA). The card has several markings on it: Archive Corporation, FCC ID: EAX6GPSC499-R ?(unintelligible) A-200, 88 16, Rev B DET. 50594-01 e023391 Is there any chance that someone has specifications or an installation manual around for this adapter? Also, last version of the MS-DOS software (especially MS-DOS libraries to allow reading/writing, etc.) Thanks, Dave Jenner djenner@halcyon.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971016/0e497da4/vcard.vcf From engine at chac.org Thu Oct 16 12:58:42 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Heroic solutions Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971016105833.00f16100@pop.batnet.com> At 08:54 10/16/97 BST, Philip wrote: >Biggest coup I pulled was when I persuaded my parents to pay L10000 >towards buying my house, just to get my collection out of theirs. Good one. I started a Federal nonprofit educational charity to get my collection out of mine.... It kinda got more complicated than I thought it would ;-) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Oct 16 15:33:53 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Atari PC's Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971016133419.4d8ffb26@ricochet.net> At 07:34 PM 10/15/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Ran across an Atari PC for sale at: >You gotta give the guy credit for trying, this is the second time he's had >this thing up there. No one seems to want to place a minimum bid of $100 Yeah, I didn't byte. I've got a couple of different Atari PC cases (empty) gathering dust in my basement, but I think if it were reasonably priced, (as in < $20) I'd pick it up. Now, if only I'd had the $ to buy the Atari PC Laptop I saw once... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Oct 16 15:33:40 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Allright Experts Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971016133411.4d8ff4bc@ricochet.net> >Here is a really crazy way to get your display that I've used. I've got a >PowerMac 8500/180 which is one of the AV capable Macs. Just for kicks one >day I decided to set up one of my computers up using it for the Display. >Works great, now on my 20" monitor I can have any of the cool computer from >the 80's in a window. Beat's playing with emulators :^) The only problem >is the two keyboards (and sometimes mice), and you can't cut and paste >between the two :^) Totally cool! Hey Rachel, can I bring some computers over to your place? Actually, ya know what, I know your place is kinda crowded, so I will graciously offer to store your PowerMac 8500/180AV at my place... 8^) [for the classiccmp crowd: Rachel is my girlfriend with the cool mac] --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Oct 16 15:50:31 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Atari PC's Message-ID: <199710162049.PAA29713@sunflower.com> 20 is pretty much my limit for anything. Hey got a Black Apple finally! and picked up a Midi Card for the //e by "Practical Designs" Anyone have any software or know anything about it? ---------- > From: Uncle Roger > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Atari PC's > Date: Thursday, October 16, 1997 3:33 PM > > At 07:34 PM 10/15/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>Ran across an Atari PC for sale at: > > >You gotta give the guy credit for trying, this is the second time he's had > >this thing up there. No one seems to want to place a minimum bid of $100 > > Yeah, I didn't byte. I've got a couple of different Atari PC cases (empty) > gathering dust in my basement, but I think if it were reasonably priced, (as > in < $20) I'd pick it up. > > Now, if only I'd had the $ to buy the Atari PC Laptop I saw once... > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Thu Oct 16 17:54:49 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Rescue Required - San Diego, CA Message-ID: <199710162254.SAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> Gentlemen, I have a solid lead on a VAXstation 2000, a VT-220, a VT-240, and a Rainbow which require rescue in the San Diego area. If anybody is interested, please let me know at my personal address and I'll forward the information on. The machines are available for "the Right Price" and come with doco. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Oct 16 19:04:38 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Rescue Required - San Diego, CA In-Reply-To: <199710162254.SAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> from "Carl R. Friend" at Oct 16, 97 06:54:49 pm Message-ID: <9710162304.AA12180@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 704 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971016/8f6ef64e/attachment.ksh From nospammail_Chwolka at t-online.de Thu Oct 16 16:09:54 1997 From: nospammail_Chwolka at t-online.de (Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: IBM 3101 terminals References: <9709168770.AA877017337@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <344682A2.277@t-online.de> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > Biggest coup I pulled was when I persuaded my parents to pay L10000 ...................................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > towards buying my house, just to get my collection out of theirs. > > Philip. -- Tell me how you did this.-) Greetings from Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun supporting the Unofficial CP/M Web Page look at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ *-------------------------------------------------------* ! Internet: Chwolka@nt-gmbh.de ! ! fritz.chwolka@ac.cybercity.de ! ! ! ! some times Chwolka@t-online.de ! *=======================================================* ! ! ! If you have an old CP/M System don't throw it away. ! ! Try to find someone who give the system a new home. ! ! ! *-------------------------------------------------------* From oklapokes at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 16 20:34:50 1997 From: oklapokes at worldnet.att.net (oklapokes@worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Message-ID: <3446C0BA.1841@worldnet.att.net> I Would Like A Picture Of The Kaypro 10 Email That File To Oklapokes@worldnet.att.net> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread > Index] > > Kaypro 10 needs home > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > * Subject: Kaypro 10 needs home > * From: DASARNO@aol.com > * Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:58:07 -0400 (EDT) > * Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > * Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Have a mint condition Kaypro 10, complete with all manuals. Looks like it > came out of the box. Works great, all original software. > > If you know of anyone who has a serious interest, please e-mail me. > > Don Sarno > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Prev by Date: Re: Bad Feelings... > * Next by Date: Re: Bad Feelings... > * Prev by thread: Re: Apple ][ design (was: Bad feelings) > * Next by thread: Re: Kaypro 10 needs home > * Index(es): > o Date > o Thread From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Oct 16 21:19:07 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:16 2005 Subject: looking for northstar dos... Message-ID: <199710170219.AA23433@world.std.com> Doug, A copy of NS* dos on media is not as desirable as on line. The reason for this is I am debugging a suspected bad controller. In the past I've found that bad NS controllers can accidently do uncommanded writes to the disk rendering it useless. Also if thge media is DD the working SD controller I have. I do have legal copies of 4.0, 5.0 and 5.2 but single density only. An online copy or a SD disk with a copy of the DD ns* works better for debug. What I would do is to load the dos into EEprom so I can load it and execute it quickly if the controller can't. Allison <>Is there anywhere on the net northstar* dos version 5.x for DD controllers <>My archives only have the single density version. <> <>Allison From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Oct 16 22:39:20 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Rescue Required - San Diego, CA Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971016203946.377fcd3e@mail.crl.com> At 04:04 PM 10/16/97 -0800, you wrote: >If people are interested in this class of machines, I've got 4 >VS2000's currently being used as doorstops. They have a mix And I've got a Dec Rainbow 100 available if anyone's interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Thu Oct 16 23:47:24 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971017044724.00884128@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 04:53 PM 15/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >I picked up a copy of this book, as it seems quite handy. It has lots >of info on older, long since discontinued drives. > >The local MicroCenter here in Dallas has a giant pile of them for >something like $5 each; it says list $49.99 so this may be a bargain. >If there is any interest, I could pick up a few to send elsewhere. > Hell yes I would be interested, If you could pick one up for me, I'll pay shipping + cost. Reply if you can can still get them... Thanks in advance. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Oct 16 20:36:15 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition In-Reply-To: <199710161401.HAA09790@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199710170533.BAA12178@mail.cgocable.net> The Hard drive Bible?...Oh it strikes me in my brain... Do you mean that book that is filled with hard drives from A to Z with FULL doc on each for jumpers than what most others shown? I have a Micropolis scsi hd needing proper setting up and LLF'ed as it's not set up right previously. Right now it's resisting anything unless there is a proper way. model 1684-7. It's 340MB regular SCSI. And I am looking for how to make custom terminator resistor array. Thanks! BTW, same guys publish Motherboard Bible too. I wish they do sell this also. :) I deal with too many boards this moment. If anyone has one if I could ask few questions... then this would be mucho appreciated! Jason D. From pjoules at enterprise.net Fri Oct 17 03:17:53 1997 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Rescue Required - San Diego, CA Message-ID: <01bcdad5$2ab622c0$104e53c2@mis2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> >If people are interested in this class of machines, I've got 4 >VS2000's currently being used as doorstops. [Snip] > (near Vancouver) If only I could drive there from the UK to fetch them :-) Regards Pete #include From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 17 11:33:54 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition In-Reply-To: <199710170533.BAA12178@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Oct 17, 97 01:36:15 am Message-ID: <9710171533.AA23684@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971017/2ad53bde/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Oct 17 11:16:54 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 4 BBC micros (not guarenteed working) going begging Message-ID: <199710171616.LAA14986@rgate.metricom.com> In case someone on that side of the pond is interested... In alt.folklore.computers, slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk.NOJUNK (Simon Slavin) wrote: >For a few days I'll hold on to four BBC model Bs which are about to >be thrown away by a local school. I don't guarentee they all work >(though they did last time they were turned on) and you'll have to >arrange pickup from the North London area. >Simon. >-- >Simon Slavin -- Computer Contractor. | The mind abhors a vacuum. Without > http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | facts, they'll fill their heads with >Check email address for spam-guard. | fantasies. >Junk email not welcome at this site. | -- Jonathan Kellerman: _Time Bomb_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From brensue at ois.net.au Fri Oct 17 11:25:43 1997 From: brensue at ois.net.au (Brendan Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: EETO Computer Message-ID: <34479187.6B6E@ois.net.au> I have an EETO computer for which I am looking for the jumper settings and CMOS setup entry procedure. The system has the following specs for the motherboard: PCB is marked HYUNDAI SUPER 16TE SYSTEM BOARD ASSY E4008005701 REV PCB ICT 2 Has 6 jumper links at front left of motherboard Has five 8 bit slots Has onboard battery It boots up with Patterson Labs Basic I/O System Version 2.00Ia Copyrighted 1986,87 I'm not sure what else is needed to properly identify this motherboard. Hope you can point me to some info. Thanks, Brendan From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Fri Oct 17 13:49:29 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: Well, they do say that they solicit input from their readers on what to add for the next edition. (for instance they added the SCSI command set reference section in this edition). If it doesn't document 90% of the drives you use regularly, and those drive are not new to the last 5 years (hey, this is the _classic_ computer mailing list) then how about doing one of two things: (1) let them know what they are missing and give constructive advice on how to make the 9th edition better, or (2) Start your own reference information project Either way, we need to preserve the knowledge. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Shoppa [SMTP:shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca] > Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 11:34 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > > The Hard drive Bible?...Oh it strikes me in my brain... > > > > Do you mean that book that is filled with hard drives from A to Z > > with FULL doc on each for jumpers than what most others shown? > > Actually, the quality of information in the editions I've seen is > quite > a hodgepodge. And it has *no* documentation on 90% of the drives that > I use regularly. So I look at it with a good amount of disdain, as it > doesn't come close to doing what the cover claims. (But that's true > with many things in life... and even more true of computers > recently!) > > > I have a Micropolis scsi hd needing proper setting up and LLF'ed as > > it's not set up right previously. Right now it's resisting anything > > > unless there is a proper way. > > > > model 1684-7. It's 340MB regular SCSI. > > Have you - say - tried contacting Micropolis? > > ftp://techsupport.micropolis.com/pub/files/SPECS/1680spec.txt is > what you want. > > > And I am looking for how to make custom terminator resistor array. > > I assume you're referring to RN9, a 20-pin 220/330 network? I've > always gotten them in the past by calling Micropolis at > 1-818-709-3325. > But if you want to make your own, and have access to a 20-pin header, > it's pretty simple: > > Pin 10 is ground, Pin 20 is Vcc, and pins 1-9 and 11-19 consist > of a 220 ohm resistor to Vcc and a 330 ohm resistor to ground. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 17 15:10:18 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition In-Reply-To: from "Matt Pritchard" at Oct 17, 97 01:49:29 pm Message-ID: <9710171910.AA23612@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 928 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971017/1b3805ed/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Fri Oct 17 14:20:35 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: Just making public a catalog of what reference material you have would be great for someone searching. Meybe we need to start a classic documentation server or something like that. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Shoppa [SMTP:shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca] > Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 3:10 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > > Well, they do say that they solicit input from their readers on what > to > > add for the next edition. (for instance they added the SCSI command > set > > reference section in this edition). If it doesn't document 90% of > the > > drives you use regularly, and those drive are not new to the last 5 > > years (hey, this is the _classic_ computer mailing list) then how > about > > doing one of two things: > > > > (1) let them know what they are missing and give constructive advice > on > > how to make the 9th edition better, or > > This seems unlikely, as the number of PC-clone boxes with SMD drives > on them can probably be counted on one hand. PC-clone SMD controllers > are exceedingly rare. > > > (2) Start your own reference information project > > Not a bad idea. I've got complete tech manuals for things like > Fujitsu > 2322's, 2333's, and Eagles (M2351A's) and Super Eagles (M2361A's), but > they're about 1000 pages each. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Oct 17 10:40:48 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition In-Reply-To: <9710171910.AA23612@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Matt Pritchard" at Oct 17, 97 01:49:29 pm Message-ID: <199710171937.PAA23147@mail.cgocable.net> Nip! > > (1) let them know what they are missing and give constructive advice on > > how to make the 9th edition better, or Would that make the books into multivolumes.. Ouch, mail, production costs shoots up. :) > This seems unlikely, as the number of PC-clone boxes with SMD drives > on them can probably be counted on one hand. PC-clone SMD controllers > are exceedingly rare. > > > (2) Start your own reference information project Sensible...I have problems with that because few makers did not publish their pinouts like right now, I am working on a Nec 386dx 33 cached "all in one" motherboard without a case, PSU or anything. Just bare board with all complete chips and I add a cpu, PSU adapter to take standard pc PSU. Right now working out a pinout for keyboard port! I do not have the slot tree riser for it. Aw. it's a Nec 386 33i as shown in bios bootup. Nec is worst when asking for help/info such as this petty stuff. :( > Not a bad idea. I've got complete tech manuals for things like Fujitsu > 2322's, 2333's, and Eagles (M2351A's) and Super Eagles (M2361A's), but > they're about 1000 pages each. OUCH! That's overkill! Compared to the ST496 series manual, it 's just right! :) But we are only interested in jumpers and bit of tidbits? > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) Jason D. From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Fri Oct 17 14:46:53 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: To help with questions I've asked, here's some info the Hard Drive Bible book. ----- It says July, 1996. It seems to cover older drives, up to the first one and two gig drives. in the "hard drive peramters" chapters for example: Alps America: 8 entries from 10 to 212 MB, Ampex: 4 entries, 5, 10, 15 , and 20 mb, Areal tech: 6 entries, 62 to 136mb (all IDE 2.5" notebook drives) .. BASF: 5 entires, 23, 15, 8, 10, 21mb (all MFM) etc... It's a bit PC centric. Major chapters: History of Disk Drives Interface Standards PRML tehcnology Enhanced IDE SCSI command reference What is SCSI-3? SCA Hot plugs PCI interface Choosing a Hard Drive and Controller Controller Setup and Jumpering Drive Setup and Jumpering Drive Cabling Low level Formatting DOS partitioning Macintosh Drive Installation Windows Drive Format Win95 Disk Format Novell Compsurf Hardware Compatibility Problems Common Installation Problems Troubleshooting Universal IDE parameters Hard Drive List Fine Tuning Hard Drive Parameters (by manufacturer) Controller Information (by manufacturer) Connector Pinouts Drive Jumpers CD-ROM Floppy Drives Optical Disk Drive Technology Optical Jukeboxes Optical Drive Specifications Tape Drives CSC benchmark tests Software System Notes Industry Phone List BBS Numbers Directory Glossary Index -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Oct 17 15:48:08 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 5250 Emulator Message-ID: <344ccec7.13623157@mail.swbell.net> I have a short 8-bit PC card labeled "5250 EMULATOR". It has a big 1.5" X 1.5" chip labeled 02F8059ESD, a smaller .5" X .5" chip labeled 7378945ESD, a 6264 8KB SRAM, 5 misc. chips, a 32MHZ xtal, assorted discrete components a 8-position DIP switch, and a DB-15M connector on the back. The $64.00 question: What is it? _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 17 17:01:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 5250 Emulator In-Reply-To: <344ccec7.13623157@mail.swbell.net> from "Barry Peterson" at Oct 17, 97 08:48:08 pm Message-ID: <9710172101.AA28767@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 684 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971017/ef1cce0a/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Oct 17 15:55:40 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 5250 Emulator In-Reply-To: <344ccec7.13623157@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971017165540.00b1e9a0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Barry Peterson said: >I have a short 8-bit PC card labeled "5250 EMULATOR". It has a big >1.5" X 1.5" chip labeled 02F8059ESD, a smaller .5" X .5" chip labeled >7378945ESD, a 6264 8KB SRAM, 5 misc. chips, a 32MHZ xtal, assorted >discrete components a 8-position DIP switch, and a DB-15M connector >on the back. > >The $64.00 question: What is it? Hate to say it like this, but it's a "5250 Emulator" card. Seriously, it's a card that will allow you to connect to TwinAx devices / systems, like an IBM AS/400. With the right software and that card, you can use any IBM/Clone as a terminal to an AS/400, and some software will even allow you to use a local parallel printer as an AS/400 printer. HTH, gotta run. "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From HenryYar at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 17 16:50:06 1997 From: HenryYar at worldnet.att.net (HENRY YARBOROUGH) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: altair 8800 Message-ID: <19971017213607.AAA21102@henrys> > Hello, > I've got an old Altair i bought back in '76 as a kit. I was using it up > 'till about '86 when I decided to get a "better" system. This past year i > decided to restore it, but have misplaced my documentation. Does anyone > have the old MITS documentation, or know where it can be obtained? thanks > in advance > Henry Yarborough From marvin at rain.org Fri Oct 17 16:42:34 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: altair 8800 References: <19971017213607.AAA21102@henrys> Message-ID: <3447DBCA.4546871A@rain.org> HENRY YARBOROUGH wrote: > > Hello, > > I've got an old Altair i bought back in '76 as a kit. I was using it > > up > > 'till about '86 when I decided to get a "better" system. This past year > i > > decided to restore it, but have misplaced my documentation. Does anyone > > have the old MITS documentation, or know where it can be obtained? > thanks > > in advance > > Henry Yarborough What documentation do you need? I have the docs for the basic unit but I don't *think* I have anything for the peripherals. From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Oct 17 17:03:57 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 5250 Emulator In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971017165540.00b1e9a0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971017165540.00b1e9a0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <344ddfc4.17972228@mail.swbell.net> On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:55:40 -0400, you said: >Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Barry Peterson said: >>The $64.00 question: What is it? > >Hate to say it like this, but it's a "5250 Emulator" card. > I guess when I lead with my chin... >Seriously, it's a card that will allow you to connect to TwinAx devices / >systems, like an IBM AS/400. > >With the right software and that card, you can use any IBM/Clone as a >terminal to an AS/400, and some software will even allow you to use a local >parallel printer as an AS/400 printer. > Ah, here's information I can use! (About a card I can't use ;^) Does anyone out there want it for the cost of shipping? (Since I don't own an AS/400) _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Fri Oct 17 18:01:31 1997 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Lisa "Screen Kit" downgrade? In-Reply-To: <34479187.6B6E@ois.net.au> Message-ID: I've recently started work on a "Sun Remarketed" Apple Lisa 2. I would like to configure this machine so that it can run the Lisa Office System; however, the "screen kit" upgrade has been installed. The screen kit upgrade changes the resolution of the display from the Lisa standard 720 x 364 to 608 x 431 to better approximate the Macintosh aspect ratio. Unfortunately, the Lisa Office System still writes to video memory in the 720 x 364 format, which yields a garbled screen. The screen kit upgrade consists of three ROM chips - the high and low boot ROMs and the video state ROM, as well as a transformer that presumably steps the voltage to one of the deflection coils up (or down). Swapping these chips for the original Lisa versions and removing the transformer should restore the Lisa's rectangular pixels and allow both the Office System 7/7 and MacWorks to run. If anyone has an extra set of these chips (Apple boot ROM numbers 341-0175 and 341-0176 and video state ROM number 341-0229) lying around or knows of an inexpensive source of them, let me know. Otherwise, I'll contact Sun Remarketing to see if they have any that were removed from the machines that they have upgraded. Unfortunately, I suspect that Sun's supply of these met the Logan Landfill of Lisae long ago. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 18:28:10 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Allright Experts In-Reply-To: <3445C517.6F9F@ndirect.co.uk> from "e.tedeschi" at Oct 16, 97 07:41:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971018/70ac22e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 18:09:02 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: CC> Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition Write-ups In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971014233029.403fddb2@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Oct 15, 97 01:30:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1655 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971018/fdb298c9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 18:21:43 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Allright Experts In-Reply-To: <34459A61.2D3F@worldnet.att.net> from "Francois Auradon" at Oct 15, 97 09:38:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2988 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971018/e514f71b/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Fri Oct 17 19:10:50 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Allright Experts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > _VERY_ few computers use the mains frequency for anything other than > possibly a heatbeat interrupt (in which case the real time clock will > keep bad time, but nothing else should fail). Actually (in the U.S.), running a clock off of the line is a very accurate way to make a real time clock. The utilities must keep their AC no more than ten cycles (1/6 second) off of what the NIST clock says it should be. In the long term, it proves to be much more accurate than crystal control, especially the crummy crystals used in computers. Of course, once the power fails, time stands still... William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 20:31:10 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Allright Experts In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Oct 17, 97 08:10:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971018/241b58d9/attachment.ksh From mhop at mail.snip.net Fri Oct 17 21:17:36 1997 From: mhop at mail.snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: finally found: Your Computer Message-ID: <19971018024733920.AAD160@computer-name> ---------- > From: thedm > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: finally found: Your Computer > Date: Saturday, October 04, 1997 12:00 AM > > I'll take it Oh, sorry it took so long to reply. I had 5 people reply within minutes, so I gave it to the first person. His email was only 2 minutes earlier than the next. :) sorry. mhop@snip.net From jim at october.u-net.com Sat Oct 18 00:30:36 1997 From: jim at october.u-net.com (James Campbell Andrew) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: ACT Sirius help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199710172258022351080M@p23.nas2.is3.u-net.net> Does anyone in the UK have a CP/M boot disk for an ACT Sirius? I have one of these lovelies but only have the MS-DOS 2.x disks. I'd really like a CP/M boot disk if poss. Many thanks. -- | The application "Jim" has suffered http://www.october.u-net.com | a Total Enthusiasm Failure Collector of 8bit computers | and must exit immediately. WANTED:Sharp MZ-80K (UK) | [[ OK ]] [ CANCEL ] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Oct 18 10:48:32 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: weekend additions Message-ID: <971018114631_135248618@emout15.mail.aol.com> i enjoy reading what others have acquired, so i'd add what i just found. apple //e and a franklin 5.25 drive $5 ibm dictionary of computer terms on disk (never opened) for $1 also, an old IBMer at work gave me some interesting things. i got the usual 286 boards and some mfm drives and controllers. i also got some kind of interface board that prompts for a password before booting. made by sdi incorporated. i tried it in a 486 i built, but it wont accept the passwoid. also got something called a corvus systems ibm interface. it has a 34pin header in some kind of funky mounting bracket. anyone know what it is? also got something called a videotrax in its original but ragged box. its a card that lets one use a vcr for backup. i think 80 meg per tape. i wont plan to archive important data, but would be useful to image one old xt drive to another. i also got the host/client cards for the old pc expansion case. i have extras, so if anyone needs them, make a deal. i also saw a trs80 model 4? it looked like my trs80 model 3 except it had no disk drives and was white! i never saw a white trs80. i might go back and get it. also found a tandy trs80 model ? which was similar in a way to the model 4 except it had a vertical 8 inch drive, but someone had gone into it and the keyboard was missing. not bad for finishing out the week. david From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Sat Oct 18 13:06:09 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Join Classic Computer Mailing List References: <19971016093829.AAC15350@hotze> Message-ID: <3448FA91.6E21@ndirect.co.uk> Sorry about the previous message: I thought that the message related my proposed VINTAGE RADIO mailing list. By the way: how do I start one? Thank you enrico ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Sat Oct 18 11:47:07 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: weekend additions In-Reply-To: <971018114631_135248618@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: All TRS-80s Model 4's were white. The Model 1,2,3, etc., were had the grey case. CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Sat, 18 Oct 1997 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > i enjoy reading what others have acquired, so i'd add what i just found. > > apple //e and a franklin 5.25 drive $5 > ibm dictionary of computer terms on disk (never opened) for $1 > > also, an old IBMer at work gave me some interesting things. > i got the usual 286 boards and some mfm drives and controllers. > i also got some kind of interface board that prompts for a password before > booting. made by sdi incorporated. i tried it in a 486 i built, but it wont > accept the passwoid. > also got something called a corvus systems ibm interface. it has a 34pin > header in some kind of funky mounting bracket. anyone know what it is? > also got something called a videotrax in its original but ragged box. its a > card that lets one use a vcr for backup. i think 80 meg per tape. i wont plan > to archive important data, but would be useful to image one old xt drive to > another. > i also got the host/client cards for the old pc expansion case. i have > extras, so if anyone needs them, make a deal. > i also saw a trs80 model 4? it looked like my trs80 model 3 except it had no > disk drives and was white! i never saw a white trs80. i might go back and get > it. > also found a tandy trs80 model ? which was similar in a way to the model 4 > except it had a vertical 8 inch drive, but someone had gone into it and the > keyboard was missing. not bad for finishing out the week. > > david > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 18 12:28:02 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: weekend additions In-Reply-To: <971018114631_135248618@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Oct 18, 97 11:48:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971018/49311a8a/attachment.ksh From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Sat Oct 18 13:04:22 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Join Classic Computer Mailing List References: <19971016093829.AAC15350@hotze> Message-ID: <3448FA26.4E2A@ndirect.co.uk> Hotze wrote: > > Hello. I would like to join your mailing list. > > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze There is no such a list. However I am thinking about starting one. Will let you know if I do. Keep visiting! Thank you for your interest Ciao enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Oct 18 12:06:05 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Anyone help? Message-ID: <3449ec2d.217414936@mail.wizards.net> Found on Usenet. Anyone in the UK have a VAXen looking for a home? If so, please contact this fellow directly. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Give a good home to your VAX (or ALPHA): http://multivac.jb.man.ac.uk:8000/helbig/vms/vax.txt -- Phillip Helbig Email ... helbig@multivac.jb.man.ac.uk Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories Tel. ..... +44 1477 571 321 (ext. 297) Jodrell Bank Fax ................. +44 1477 571 618 Macclesfield Telex ................. 36149 JODREL G UK-Cheshire SK11 9DL Web .... http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~pjh/ My opinions are not necessarily those of NRAL or the University of Manchester. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From dastar at wco.com Sat Oct 18 14:10:37 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL Write-Ups Message-ID: For those who were doing write-ups for the Vintage Computer Festival exhibition, if you could start sending those over to me I would appreciate it. Formats I can accept include: Microsoft Word Microsoft Works WordPerfect 5/6 ASCII Appleworks (hey, you never know) Please convert your document as is appropriate. I would like to start getting the write-ups in soon so I can start editing and formatting them. You can e-mail them to: dastar@wco.com ...in either uuencoded format or as an attachment (in the case of non-ASCII file formats) or as straight ASCII in the body of your message. THANKS!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Sat Oct 18 21:47:06 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: weekend additions In-Reply-To: from "Cord Coslor" at Oct 18, 97 11:47:07 am Message-ID: <199710190247.WAA15579@hiway1.exit109.com> > > All TRS-80s Model 4's were white. The Model 1,2,3, etc., were had the grey > case. Unless they were model 3's upgraded with the Model 4 Upgrade Kit. :-) <<>> From gram at cnct.com Sun Oct 19 08:52:05 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: weekend additions References: Message-ID: <344A1085.3853294F@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > i also saw a trs80 model 4? it looked like my trs80 model 3 except it had no > > disk drives and was white! i never saw a white trs80. i might go back and get > > The model 4 is an enhanced model 3. There are extra video modes (like > 80*24 text), a memory mapping kludge (so you can have RAM starting at > location 0 for CP/M, and also at least 2 banks of memory), single-bit > sound (the output PCB is only fitted on disk systems, though), etc. It might also be a DT-1 terminal, which was in a white Mod 4 case. Not the best dumb terminal ever marketed, all of its emulations had the magic cookie video attribute -- a blank space left when mixing regular and inverse text within a line. But for a couple of years it was the only game in town for Xenix users. > > also found a tandy trs80 model ? which was similar in a way to the model 4 > > Possibly a Late Modei 12 or Model 16? They were similar machines apart > from the fact that the M16 had a 68000 CPU board in it (the Z80 used in > the M12 was there as well - the machine could run all M12 software on the > Z80 or Xenix on the 68000, using the Z80 for I/O). > > > except it had a vertical 8 inch drive, but someone had gone into it and the > > keyboard was missing. not bad for finishing out the week. If the box was mercedes silver, it's a Mod 2. If white with a cable coming out the front bottom right for a keyboard, it's a Mod 16. Except for the nameplate, the 12, 16B and 6000 are identical (well, the 6000 had added air flow cabability, and most 16B's were retrofit with a huge fan in the back access panel). -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Oct 19 11:58:36 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Write-Ups... References: <199710190702.AAA16671@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <344A3C3B.51D0@goldrush.com> > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:10:37 -0700 (PDT) > From: Sam Ismail > Subject: re: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL Write-Ups > For those who were doing write-ups for the Vintage Computer Festival > exhibition, if you could start sending those over to me I would appreciate > it. > Formats I can accept include: > Microsoft Word > Microsoft Works > WordPerfect 5/6 > ASCII > Appleworks (hey, you never know) > Please convert your document as is appropriate. > I would like to start getting the write-ups in soon so I can start editing > and formatting them. You can e-mail them to: > dastar@wco.com > ...in either uuencoded format or as an attachment (in the case of > non-ASCII file formats) or as straight ASCII in the body of your message. > THANKS!! > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ===================================================================== > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Um... I am formatting it myself, along with added scanned pictures and the like, I could convert my two Claris Works documents (1.6 meg and 884+k) to Microsoft Works but I don't think Microsoft works has a "Draw Layer" (Kinda like a DTP program) which supports linked text frames, etc. :/ I can mail you a set of what I've got when I'm back home on Wednesday though. Larry Anderson --- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From doug at the-one.com Sun Oct 19 13:25:12 1997 From: doug at the-one.com (Doug Rich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: looking for northstar dos... In-Reply-To: <199710170219.AA23433@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971019122512.0072f1ec@mail.wco.com> I don't have a way to read the diskettes. I have no hardware that would allow me to get it on line. Doug At 10:19 PM 10/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >Doug, > >A copy of NS* dos on media is not as desirable as on line. The reason for >this is I am debugging a suspected bad controller. In the past I've found >that bad NS controllers can accidently do uncommanded writes to the disk >rendering it useless. Also if thge media is DD the working SD controller >I have. I do have legal copies of 4.0, 5.0 and 5.2 but single density >only. > >An online copy or a SD disk with a copy of the DD ns* works better for >debug. What I would do is to load the dos into EEprom so I can load it >and execute it quickly if the controller can't. > >Allison > >< >< ><> ><>Is there anywhere on the net northstar* dos version 5.x for DD controllers ><>My archives only have the single density version. ><> ><>Allison > > > From gram at cnct.com Sun Oct 19 12:49:52 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US References: <9709088763.AA876357163@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <344A4840.5C83D8FA@cnct.com> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > No. Typical house sizes here in the UK mean that all of us UK members have > it. I imagine many of the US crowd have the same problem, too. In > continental Europe, typical house sizes are larger, but most people live in > apartments, so goodness knows what they do! Hey, all of the BBC shows I see on Public Broadcasting over here in the States show these huge houses with broad sweeping staircases (which would be great for stacking a whole lot of desktop-style systems). Am I being deceived by the media? Do some Brits live in extended closets like we have here in the U.S.? Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones. My fiancee permits me a whole 8" by 10" room in the basement for my laboratory. Not much room to actually _move around_, since three sides are heavy-duty storage shelves, but at least I can get at half a dozen keyboards and screens from the one chair, an old wooden "back chair". Of course, I can't have that many systems powered at a time anyway until I run some more electricity into the room. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Oct 20 00:17:59 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <344A4840.5C83D8FA@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > "back chair". Of course, I can't have that many systems powered at a time > anyway until I run some more electricity into the room. Nonsense! I once had 20+ systems all running simultaneously off of one outlet. (daisy chained power strips.) These outlets were also 1920's vintage and not grounded... Yup, you could cut cheese on the electric meter... LeS PS This was just a "well lesse what happens when..." type experiment. I don't *normally* run everything off of one outlet... ;) From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Oct 20 11:16:57 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: 5250 Emulator Message-ID: <9709208773.AA877371520@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Seriously, it's a card that will allow you to connect to TwinAx devices / > systems, like an IBM AS/400. > > With the right software and that card, you can use any IBM/Clone as a > terminal to an AS/400, and some software will even allow you to use a local > parallel printer as an AS/400 printer. Hey, Guys, this is a classic computers list! Twinax terminals connect to system/34, s/36, s/38 machines (dunno about S/32 or earlier). I imagine they're only supported on AS/400 for compatibility... Philip. From kevan at heydon.org Mon Oct 20 05:20:21 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: FWD: Manchester Baby Programming Competition Message-ID: <199710201020.LAA12294@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Just thought people here might be interested... ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:19:31 GMT From: chris@envex.demon.co.uk (Chris.P.Burton) Reply-To: chris@envex.demon.co.uk To: history-of-computing-uk@mailbase.ac.uk Subject: Manchester Baby Programming Competition Program the world's first computer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The world's first computer program was run on June 21st 1948 on the "baby" Mark1 at Manchester. As part of the celebrations to mark the 50th anniversary of this event next year, we are holding a competition to program the machine. The winner will have the opportunity to run their program on the replica of the original machine. For details of your chance to program the World's First Stored Program Computer, see http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/prog98/ Information on the 1998 celebration in general is at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/mark1/ Please forward this information to anybody you know who might be interested - i.e. anybody you know with an interest in computing! - -- Chris P Burton - A member of the Computer Conservation Society ------- End of Forwarded Message From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Oct 20 11:29:54 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US Message-ID: <9709208773.AA877372240@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > No. Typical house sizes here in the UK mean that all of us UK members have > > it. I imagine many of the US crowd have the same problem, too. In > > continental Europe, typical house sizes are larger, but most people live in > > apartments, so goodness knows what they do! > > Hey, all of the BBC shows I see on Public Broadcasting over here in the States > show these huge houses with broad sweeping staircases (which would be great > for stacking a whole lot of desktop-style systems). Am I being deceived by > the media? Do some Brits live in extended closets like we have here in the > U.S.? Yes, you've been deceived. I shall cite my own house as a fairly typical example of a British family home, circa 1928. I am lucky in that I live alone in it; such a house would normally hold a family of 4 or so. Upstairs, three bedrooms (12' x 12', 12' x 11', 6' x 6') and a bathroom (just large enough to hold bath, wash basin and one other item). Downstairs, lving room and dining room (match the two large bedrooms), kitchen (6' x 10' approx) and conservatory. Shelves full of computers etc. in every available space, even the living room, which I had originally intended to reserve for the piano and things. > Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones. My fiancee permits me a whole 8" by 10" > room in the basement for my laboratory. Not much room to actually _move Eight by ten inches? You poor thing! But I expect you are exaggerating... Philip. From manney at nwohio.com Sat Oct 18 12:32:14 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: EETO Computer Message-ID: <199710201302.GAA04899@mx3.u.washington.edu> Every XT I ever ran across (except for some Tandys) had switches on the motherboard to control no. of floopies, coprocessor, amount of memory and type of video adapter; therefore no CMOS. The battery is probably for the real-time clock. What won't it do? If you disconnect everything except one floppy, will it boot up? (hard drive info is typically kept on the HDC). manney@nwohio.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Manney Date: Friday, October 17, 1997 12:35 PM Subject: EETO Computer >I have an EETO computer for which I am looking for the jumper settings >and CMOS setup entry procedure. >The system has the following specs for the motherboard: > >PCB is marked > HYUNDAI SUPER 16TE SYSTEM BOARD >ASSY E4008005701 REV PCB ICT 2 >Has 6 jumper links at front left of motherboard >Has five 8 bit slots >Has onboard battery > >It boots up with Patterson Labs Basic I/O System Version 2.00Ia >Copyrighted 1986,87 > >I'm not sure what else is needed to properly identify this motherboard. > >Hope you can point me to some info. > >Thanks, >Brendan > > From dastar at wco.com Mon Oct 20 08:13:11 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: > Nonsense! I once had 20+ systems all running simultaneously off of one > outlet. (daisy chained power strips.) These outlets were also 1920's > vintage and not grounded... Yup, you could cut cheese on the electric > meter... In the interest of social responsibility, I would not recommend trying this at home. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From v.murray at unsw.edu.au Mon Oct 20 17:34:38 1997 From: v.murray at unsw.edu.au (Vincent Murray) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: Tandata td2500 Message-ID: <344BDC7E.36B9@unsw.edu.au> I recently picked up a Tandata td2500 at a London, UK car boot sale. Does anybody know what it is? It is basically a keyboard with outputs on the back for TV video, composite video, RGB (SCART), serial data, and a lead to plug into a telephone outlet. The power supply is missing and plugs into a 4 pin DIN plug - any info on voltages to use to power it up. The unit was made by Tandata UK Ltd. Also I like to hear what's available to buy - so here is a non-US version of what I picked up at a large South London car boot sale on Saturday. Epson PX-4 + cartridges (works) - 5 pounds (L) (1 pound = 1.6 $US) 2 x BBC model B (both work) - 1 L each Casio pocket computer PB-410F (no battery) - 5 L EG 2000 Colour Genie (works) - 3 L NCR PC4i - nice all-in-one unit but turned out to be IBM XT clone - 5 L old Sharp calculator - 1 L Vincent Murray Email v.murray@unsw.edu.au From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Oct 20 10:11:53 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: TRS80 M-3's & M-4's In-Reply-To: References: <971018114631_135248618@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Oct 18, 97 11:48:32 am Message-ID: <2B81A7D77AD@ifrsys.com> Guys: I picked up a Tandy 15Mb disk drive unit at a thrift some months ago, with the idea that I was going to graft it to some old 8-bit hardware here. I was going to swap the controller with a different one, reformat the drive, and so on. Anyway, rather than do this, I felt it only just that I offer it here in case anyone is looking for one of these. It is in a White metal cabinet, and uses a WD-1000-TB1 controller. It has plugs on the back so you can chain on more drives. I suspect that this is used with upgraded model 3's and probly model 4's. The on/off switch uses a keylock (I 'aint got the key, though). I'll let it go to someone who can use it for $5 and shipping. I've never powered this thing up, so I dunno. . . . Jeff From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 20 10:23:28 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: TRS80 M-3's & M-4's References: <971018114631_135248618@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Oct 18, 97 11:48:32 am <2B81A7D77AD@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <344B7770.1BAEFBA1@rain.org> Jeff Kaneko wrote: > Guys: > > I picked up a Tandy 15Mb disk drive unit at a thrift some months ago, > > I suspect that this is used with upgraded model 3's and probly model > 4's. The on/off switch uses a keylock (I 'aint got the key, though). > I'll let it go to someone who can use it for $5 and shipping. I've > never powered this thing up, so I dunno. . . . This sounds identical to the units I have that go to the TRS 6000, a Xenix machine. I don't know if it will interface to other models or not. From hdwarden at netins.net Mon Oct 20 11:05:35 1997 From: hdwarden at netins.net (hdwarden@netins.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: FWD: Manchester Baby Programming Competition In-Reply-To: <199710201020.LAA12294@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199710201614.LAA18492@worf.netins.net> In <199710201020.LAA12294@mailgate.motiv.co.uk>, on 10/20/97 at 11:20 AM, kevan@heydon.org said: > Program the world's first computer! > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >The world's first computer program was run on June 21st 1948 on the >"baby" Mark1 at Manchester. As part of the celebrations to mark the 50th >.... Could some of the list members with more historical knowledge comment on this? I thought the first "electronic digital computer" was the ABC - Atanasoff Berry Computer from 1939. This was verified in some high powered patent cases in '73 and '74, that concluded Sperry-Univac could not claim patents for the ideas from thier Univac machine ("43 or '44?). Honneywell, CDC, IBM, and others did not want to pay royalties to Sperry. The Sperry machine is the first "commercial" machine that was offered for sale. A replica of the ABC has been built, and is currently on tour of midwest Universities. Where does the Manchester computer fit in? In seems 1948 was several years after the ABC and Univac efforts, yet they're referring to the "world's first computer program". Harlan ------------------------------------------------------ Harlan Warden, near Van Cleve Iowa hdwarden@netins.net ------------------------------------------------------ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Oct 20 17:47:53 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:17 2005 Subject: FWD: Manchester Baby Programming Competition Message-ID: <9709208773.AA877394921@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > Program the world's first computer! > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >The world's first computer program was run on June 21st 1948 on the > >"baby" Mark1 at Manchester. As part of the celebrations to mark the 50th > >.... > > Could some of the list members with more historical knowledge comment > on this? I thought the first "electronic digital computer" was the ABC - > Atanasoff Berry Computer from 1939. This was verified in some high > powered patent cases in '73 and '74, that concluded Sperry-Univac could > not claim patents for the ideas from thier Univac machine ("43 or '44?). > Honneywell, CDC, IBM, and others did not want to pay royalties to Sperry. > The Sperry machine is the first "commercial" machine that was offered for > sale. Are you _sure_ the ABC was electronic? I was under the impression that the 1930s machines were all (almost all?) relay computers. Konrad Zuse is the pioneer whose name is oft mentioned here... As I see it, the sequence of events is as follows: The 1940s saw the valve (vacuum tube) computers begin to emerge - in some order (still in debate) ENIAC, Univac and the hush-hush British project, Colossus (hush-hush because it was part of the war effort), all appeared in 1943 I think. Colossus currently claims to have been first, but it is hard to verify with all the wartime secrecy that surrounded it. The Manchester machine claims to be the first _stored program_ machine. It was the first electronic computer, and I think also the first computer, to hold its software in main memory. It was far too small for this to be sensible - the purpose was to demonstrate the principal of it with a view to using similar hardware and software designs on larger machines in the future. All previous machines had a main store for data, and a programming panel for patch leads etc. to hold instructions. Soon after the Manchester machine ran, the EDSAC project in Cambridge pulled ahead with a large scale stored program (Von Neumann) machine. Professor Wilkes, who ran this project, said in one talk he gave that they had wanted to include floating point in EDASC, since it was already available on many relay computers, but this had to wait until a later design... Philip. From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Oct 20 11:47:29 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: FWD: Manchester Baby Programming Competition In-Reply-To: <199710201614.LAA18492@worf.netins.net> References: <199710201020.LAA12294@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971020124729.0099ac30@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, hdwarden@netins.net said: >In <199710201020.LAA12294@mailgate.motiv.co.uk>, on 10/20/97 > at 11:20 AM, kevan@heydon.org said: > >> Program the world's first computer! >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>The world's first computer program was run on June 21st 1948 on the >>"baby" Mark1 at Manchester. As part of the celebrations to mark the 50th >>.... World's first computer?!?!? Methinks not on this respect. > Could some of the list members with more historical knowledge comment >on this? I thought the first "electronic digital computer" was the ABC - >Atanasoff Berry Computer from 1939. This was verified in some high >powered patent cases in '73 and '74, that concluded Sperry-Univac could >not claim patents for the ideas from thier Univac machine ("43 or '44?). >Honneywell, CDC, IBM, and others did not want to pay royalties to Sperry. >The Sperry machine is the first "commercial" machine that was offered for >sale. > A replica of the ABC has been built, and is currently on tour of >midwest Universities. > Where does the Manchester computer fit in? In seems 1948 was several >years after the ABC and Univac efforts, yet they're referring to the >"world's first computer program". Exactly, on part of the ABC. However, which was the first computer that enlisted the "stored program concept" of Von Neumann? Are they referring to an program stored in main memory instead of external switches? That could be... Could anyone else expound on this? Just MHO, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Oct 20 12:03:40 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Tandata td2500 In-Reply-To: <344BDC7E.36B9@unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Vincent Murray wrote: > I recently picked up a Tandata td2500 at a London, UK car boot sale. > Does anybody know what it is? It is basically a keyboard with outputs on It's probably a Prestel (UK's viewdata service run by British Telecom) terminal. Tandata units were used for home banking, etc in the late 1980's. It will contain a CPU, some VDU chips (probably the SAA50x0 series, which were designed for Teletext TV receivers), and a 1200/75 modem. The later may be partially based round a chip called the SAA5070 (LUCY, for some strange reason) from Philips. Tandata were, I believe the remains of Tangerine, the company who made the Tangerine series of eurocards, the Microtan, etc, and who designed the HH Tiger and the Oric. > the back for TV video, composite video, RGB (SCART), serial data, and a > lead to plug into a telephone outlet. The power supply is missing and plugs > into a 4 pin DIN plug - any info on voltages to use to power it up. The unit > was made by Tandata UK Ltd. Look inside to see if it has internal voltage regulators (7805, etc) or if it's expecting a regulated 5V input. I would think it will need +5, +12 and -12 _in the end_, but it may want a few V higher fed into it if it contains its own regulators > Vincent Murray > Email v.murray@unsw.edu.au -tony From CHOLSTROM at HNTB.com Mon Oct 20 14:04:51 1997 From: CHOLSTROM at HNTB.com (Chris Holstrom) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive Boot Disk Message-ID: Does anyone have and Osborne Executive that will make a boot disk for my machine? Please.. I have a complete set of Kaypro 10 original distribution software reload disks if anyone would like these.. From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Mon Oct 20 15:04:54 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: Due to network problems, anyone who send me e-mail this weekend saying "I want one", please resend as I did not get it (or any other mail). -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Pritchard [SMTP:MPritchard@EnsembleStudios.com] > Sent: Friday, October 17, 1997 2:47 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > To help with questions I've asked, here's some info the Hard Drive > Bible > book. > ----- > It says July, 1996. It seems to cover older drives, up to the first > one > and two gig drives. in the "hard drive peramters" chapters for > example: > > Alps America: 8 entries from 10 to 212 MB, > Ampex: 4 entries, 5, 10, 15 , and 20 mb, > Areal tech: 6 entries, 62 to 136mb (all IDE 2.5" notebook drives) > .. > BASF: 5 entires, 23, 15, 8, 10, 21mb (all MFM) > > etc... > > It's a bit PC centric. > > Major chapters: > History of Disk Drives > Interface Standards > PRML tehcnology > Enhanced IDE > SCSI command reference > What is SCSI-3? > SCA Hot plugs > PCI interface > Choosing a Hard Drive and Controller > Controller Setup and Jumpering > Drive Setup and Jumpering > Drive Cabling > Low level Formatting > DOS partitioning > Macintosh Drive Installation > Windows Drive Format > Win95 Disk Format > Novell Compsurf > Hardware Compatibility Problems > Common Installation Problems > Troubleshooting > Universal IDE parameters > Hard Drive List > Fine Tuning > Hard Drive Parameters (by manufacturer) > Controller Information (by manufacturer) > Connector Pinouts > Drive Jumpers > CD-ROM > Floppy Drives > Optical Disk Drive Technology > Optical Jukeboxes > Optical Drive Specifications > Tape Drives > CSC benchmark tests > Software > System Notes > Industry Phone List > BBS Numbers > Directory > Glossary > Index > > > > -Matt Pritchard > Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist From manney at nwohio.com Mon Oct 20 08:41:53 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX Message-ID: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> Whatever the coprocessor for the 386 SX was, does anyone have one? I heard that (at one time) there was a software emulator for a coprocessor...anyone ever heard of it? Thanks manney@nwohio.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 20 11:45:32 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199710202042.QAA28436@mail.cgocable.net> > Whatever the coprocessor for the 386 SX was, does anyone have one? > > I heard that (at one time) there was a software emulator for a > coprocessor...anyone ever heard of it? > > Thanks > > manney@nwohio.com > Oh wow... what you're using this 386sx for? :) Yeah, you can still get those coprocessors easily if you use the www.ebay.com for that or request through the proper newsgroups. IIT, Intel are ok. I consider the IIT the most least power draw for the notebooks. In fact, I have one in that LTE 386s/20. Please consider the computer's speed and find the 387 mhz speed that meets or exceeding it is no problem. Used mine at 20mhz on that 25mhz copro chip until I changed the CPU and oscillator to 25mhz on that LTE 386s/20 without problems. Don't bother with the copro emulators. Total fluke and a drag on the computer if that works. Yes, I tried that. Seems one purpose is to fool some s/w that insists on that chip to work by making it fooled to make it go. THose copro chips are dirt cheap because of all 486 and pentiums made them a "need" than luxtry item. Example: Quake gets better with one that is fastest possible. Jason D. From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Oct 20 15:40:43 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971020164043.00b0e5a0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, PG Manney said: >Whatever the coprocessor for the 386 SX was, does anyone have one? > >I heard that (at one time) there was a software emulator for a >coprocessor...anyone ever heard of it? Yup, and yup. 1) I have a couple co-processors -- make me an offer. 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually worked well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It actually fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on my 386SX and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). I may have a copy of it somewhere, but that's no guarantee, as my 386 has been sold for a coupla years now, and my P150+ doesn't need it. ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 20 12:07:30 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971020164043.00b0e5a0@mail.northernway.net> References: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199710202104.RAA02125@mail.cgocable.net> > Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, PG Manney said: > > >Whatever the coprocessor for the 386 SX was, does anyone have one? > > > >I heard that (at one time) there was a software emulator for a > >coprocessor...anyone ever heard of it? > > Yup, and yup. > > 1) I have a couple co-processors -- make me an offer. > > 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually worked > well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It actually > fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on my 386SX > and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). Not. Autocad is processor heavy program and better unload that FP to that coprocessor result in even powerful system when using the suitable s/w like autocad. > > I may have a copy of it somewhere, but that's no guarantee, as my 386 has > been sold for a coupla years now, and my P150+ doesn't need it. ;-) > > HTH, > "Merch" > -- > Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional > Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers > zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? > Oh, that reminds me, what is your speed rating on these chips? I have another system that cantake one as well if the cost is cheap and the area is US or Canada. Take care. Jason D. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Oct 20 17:08:56 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Oct 20, 97 09:41:53 am Message-ID: <9710202108.AA01885@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971020/3a7ebb3a/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Oct 20 16:09:00 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX Message-ID: <199710202109.AA29396@world.std.com> References: <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Oct 20, 97 09:41:53 am Message-ID: <199710202121.RAA05047@mail.cgocable.net> > > Whatever the coprocessor for the 386 SX was, does anyone have one? > > Sure - they're readily available from all the usual electronics > suppliers. For example, Jameco stocks the following: > > 51908 80387-16SX IC,80387-16SX > 51924 80387-20SX IC,80387-20SX > 51941 80387-33 IC,80387-33 > 76531 80387-25SX IC,80387-25SX 68PLCC > 76582 80387-40 IC,80387-40 Thanks... they're overpriecd than what they're really worth. Best thing is get them used. Only max speed is 25mhz and there are 40mhz max chips for 386SX as well but for Intel kind, it's would be 33max. And they should cut down to one 25mhz part as it will work with anything below or equal to 25mhz. While you're at it, there is a 287XL 12.5mhz part, this chip is very pretty good kind if anyone is still using brain-dead 286. Funny thing, it's actual 387SX circuit in a 40pin package. Nip! > Tim Jason D. From starling at umr.edu Mon Oct 20 16:28:57 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Osborne Executive Boot Disk In-Reply-To: from "Chris Holstrom" at Oct 20, 97 02:04:51 pm Message-ID: <199710202128.QAA11617@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Wish I could reply directly to you instead of the mailing list, but... > Does anyone have and Osborne Executive that will make a boot disk for my > machine? Please.. If you'll e-mail me sometime in mid-November and remind me to do it, I _MIGHT_ be able to make you a boot disk when I go home at Thanksgiving. It'll all depend on whether or not the Osborne section of my collection has been moved. My parents are moving from Austin, TX to Tyler, TX at the rate of about a carload a week, so I'm not sure what's where anymore, since I'm in Missouri right now. But I do have a couple Osbornes and working operating system disks... > I have a complete set of Kaypro 10 original distribution software reload > disks if anyone would like these.. Hummm... I've gotta Kaypro without any disks. I'll have to check what kind it is (Kaypro II maybe?), and see if we could make an even trade here. :) (kinda sad that I'm not sure exactly what I have in my collection anymore) chris starling starling@umr.edu From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Oct 20 17:45:12 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <199710202121.RAA05047@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Oct 20, 97 05:24:39 pm Message-ID: <9710202145.AA31583@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971020/a8c77265/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 20 13:10:46 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <9710202145.AA31583@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199710202121.RAA05047@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgo.wave.ca" at Oct 20, 97 05:24:39 pm Message-ID: <199710202207.SAA12983@mail.cgocable.net> > > > Sure - they're readily available from all the usual electronics > > > suppliers. For example, Jameco stocks the following: > > > > > > 51908 80387-16SX IC,80387-16SX > > > 51924 80387-20SX IC,80387-20SX > > > 51941 80387-33 IC,80387-33 > > > 76531 80387-25SX IC,80387-25SX 68PLCC > > > 76582 80387-40 IC,80387-40 > > > > Thanks... they're overpriecd than what they're really worth. > > You have to keep in mind that Jameco's prices are in-line with > what they paid for them when they were still "current" items. > Considering that a 486DX2, including motherboard, can be purchased > for less than US$60 these days, yes these coprocessors are overpriced. > > Similarly, DECdirect (1-800-DIGITAL) will gladly sell you a > KDF11-B (PDP-11/23 CPU) for US$1226, or a new RL02 10 Mbyte > disk pack for US$220. I'm not claiming that either of these are > great bargains, either, but they *are* useful resources. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > That's perfectly fine for very few who REALLY NEEDS this kind of resource to keep oddball machines going, it does happens from time to time. Jason D. From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Oct 20 17:25:02 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <199710202104.RAA02125@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971020164043.00b0e5a0@mail.northernway.net> <199710202031.NAA28464@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971020182502.00a19440@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, jpero@cgo.wave.ca said: >> 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually worked >> well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It actually >> fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on my 386SX >> and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). >Not. Autocad is processor heavy program and better unload that FP to >that coprocessor result in even powerful system when using the >suitable s/w like autocad. Uh, we're both right. I'm at work and don't have much time to type, so I did not fully state my position. What I meant to way was: The co-processor emulation software executed FP instructions faster than a machine could _without_ a co-processor. IIRC, CheckIt reported ~60,000 Dhrystones (or was that Whetstones -- I always get them mixed up... FP operations, anyway. :-) with no co-processor, and ~71,000 Dhrystones with the co-processor software emulation. Of course, when I added a hardware 80387SX, Checkit reported just over 1 Million Dhrystones -- so of course the hardware is faster. Thanks for keeping me honest! BTW, it is my belief that Autocad is the hardest program to fool into thinking there's a coproc. when there isn't. The pgm. mentioned is the _only_ one I'd found, and it didn't work with V.12 or V.13. (I never ran V.11, so I don't know.) Also, IMHO it is better to be working than not, even if working very slowly. (And AutoCad V.10 with the emulator wasn't too bad as long as you stuck with small 2D files. (rendering, of course, would be an exercise in masochism! ;-) >Oh, that reminds me, what is your speed rating on these chips? >I have another system that cantake one as well if the cost is cheap >and the area is US or Canada. Dunno -- hafta look. It's sitting in my computer desk at home. I think I have a couple, tho. I also have a 386DX25, if anyone's interested. I do like trades, too. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 20 14:30:41 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971020182502.00a19440@mail.northernway.net> References: <199710202104.RAA02125@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199710202327.TAA27023@mail.cgocable.net> Merch, Nip! > >Not. Autocad is processor heavy program and better unload that FP to > >that coprocessor result in even powerful system when using the > >suitable s/w like autocad. Nip! > The co-processor emulation software executed FP instructions faster than a > machine could _without_ a co-processor. Ok. but not always usually. > IIRC, CheckIt reported ~60,000 Dhrystones (or was that Whetstones -- I > always get them mixed up... FP operations, anyway. :-) with no > co-processor, and ~71,000 Dhrystones with the co-processor software > emulation. Of course, when I added a hardware 80387SX, Checkit reported > just over 1 Million Dhrystones -- so of course the hardware is faster. > Thanks for keeping me honest! No problem! Checkit is not true indictor of performance, it's so easy on CPU so it get fooled by the emulator than other way around. Very general check to make sure things works and meet clocking rating. Right now I'm using this checkit 3.0 to debug a motherboard because I am trying to get it into turbo mode by keyboard, It's Nec Powermate 386 33i (386dx 33 cached all in one board). What is the key combo to enable turbo? It's Phoenix bios. Currently I got it bare from susplus for 5 dollars then plugged cpu and memory to it. Made up both keyboard and the power supply adapters. Got speaker, hard drive light and the 5v, grounds all traced out along with that 14pin header that also connects to keyboard. Not yet to find out the power/speed light. Any takers on this info or comments how this design is done? BTW tried bi color two leaded LED for this with no luck. Did this 14 pin header also carry PS/2 mouse signals too? Nip! > even if working very slowly. (And AutoCad V.10 with the emulator wasn't too > bad as long as you stuck with small 2D files. (rendering, of course, would > be an exercise in masochism! ;-) OUch! > Dunno -- hafta look. It's sitting in my computer desk at home. > > I think I have a couple, tho. I also have a 386DX25, if anyone's > interested. I do like trades, too. Oh man 386dx 25 is too popular already, I have several along with AMD 386 40 (couple) and slow 386/387-20 as well. Also to point this way of cost of getting 486's are now cheap as pennies: I have 486sx 33 and one dx2 66 but no good board yet! Also lot of pentium 60/66, and 75 are cheap now. > HTH, > "Merch" > -- > Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional > Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers > zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Mon Oct 20 22:05:59 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX Message-ID: <01IP1N6PWSAQ8Y5MRA@AC.GRIN.EDU> > Right now I'm using this checkit 3.0 to debug a motherboard because I > am trying to get it into turbo mode by keyboard, It's Nec Powermate > 386 33i (386dx 33 cached all in one board). What is the key combo > to enable turbo? It's Phoenix bios. I think Phoenix bioses use Ctrl-Alt-KeypadMinus. Perhaps that's Ctrl-Shift, and perhaps it's KeypadPlus. This is what I seem to remember, though. -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Oct 20 18:21:27 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX In-Reply-To: <01IP1N6PWSAQ8Y5MRA@AC.GRIN.EDU> Message-ID: <199710210318.XAA08239@mail.cgocable.net> > > Right now I'm using this checkit 3.0 to debug a motherboard because I > > am trying to get it into turbo mode by keyboard, It's Nec Powermate > > 386 33i (386dx 33 cached all in one board). What is the key combo > > to enable turbo? It's Phoenix bios. > > I think Phoenix bioses use Ctrl-Alt-KeypadMinus. Perhaps that's > Ctrl-Shift, and perhaps it's KeypadPlus. This is what I seem to > remember, though. > > -- > Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu > Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH > http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley > No luck. Tried many ways with this combo as shown. I remember I had to find the correct combo for that Nec but once again, forgotten the combo! And that was only small time used a powermate 386sx 16 that used exactly same design of motherboard design. Thanks. :) Jason D. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon Oct 20 23:07:58 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Items For Sale In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971020124729.0099ac30@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: In the interest of basement space and focus, I'm selling a couple items in the collection (which you can see at http://www.retrocomputing.com) which are not of interest to me: TRS-80 Model III w/ two internal drives and one external drive, some documentation and a bunch of software including boot diskettes Epson QX-10 with documentation and software, does not include printer which came with the system For the above two systems I'd like to get a few bucks plus shipping, best offer by Friday accepted. I also have a Kaypro II, condition unknown with no software, free to a good home if you pay shipping charges. All offers considered. Payment is acceptable in the form of a personal check to: Anthony Clifton 407 East Porter Avenue Des Moines, Iowa 50315 As much as I hate to part with stuff, I want to focus on pre-1982 computers with a few exceptions based on personal nostalgia. I'd like to get a few bucks for the above machines but I'll also consider trades. From marcw at lightside.com Mon Oct 20 16:50:05 1997 From: marcw at lightside.com (marcw@lightside.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: "VX/PC" Message-ID: <199710210644.XAA25163@mail.lightside.com> I saw this in the Linux-8086/ELKS mailing list. Anyone know about this card? Thanks, Marc ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Anyone ever heard of a a "VX/PC" card? I got one today from a junk bin, there are two full length 8 bit ISA cards connected together; one is marked "VX/PC processor card" and has an 80188 and some ROM and other chips, and the other is "VX/PC memory card" and has a whole bunch of DRAMs. There is another board attached to one of them marked "16.8 million color board" even. Any suggestions? I have not tried installing one and seeing what comes out the video output yet. thanks, Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, StudIEAust hamish@debian.org, hmoffatt@mail.com Student, computer science & computer systems engineering. 3rd year, RMIT. http://hamish.home.ml.org/ (PGP key here) CPOM: [***** ] 56% Your train has been cancelled due to defective government at Spring Street.. From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 21 01:58:01 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Apple questions References: <01IP1N6PWSAQ8Y5MRA@AC.GRIN.EDU> Message-ID: <344C5278.76AF1213@rain.org> Not being an Apple person, what is the major difference between the Apple ][ and the Apple ][+? For probably the first time in my life, I started playing around with one today. I noticed the motherboard only said Apple ][ on it with no mention of the plus. Is this mainly a difference of when the boards were made coupled with a different set of ROMs? Also, I have a language card. Is this card usable on any Apple or only the Plus's? Are ][e cards interchangeable with the +? How does one know which slot to plug the cards into since I have heard Apple cards are slot sensitive? I can see why most Apple users don't *want* to know what is inside :). From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Tue Oct 21 02:59:57 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Manchester Computer Message-ID: <344C60FD.7A3437C6@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote : > Are you _sure_ the ABC was electronic? I was under the impression that > the 1930s machines were all (almost all?) relay computers. Konrad Zuse > is the pioneer whose name is oft mentioned here... > > As I see it, the sequence of events is as follows: > > The 1940s saw the valve (vacuum tube) computers begin to emerge - in > some order (still in debate) ENIAC, Univac and the hush-hush British > project, Colossus (hush-hush because it was part of the war effort), all > appeared in 1943 I think. Colossus currently claims to have been first, > but it is hard to verify with all the wartime secrecy that surrounded > it. All the "computers" prior to the Manchester machines did not store their programs in memory, they are more accurately termed sequence controlled calculators. The Univac came later, it was actually first delivered in 1951, just a month or so after Ferranti delivered the first commercial computer, the Mark I to Manchester University in February 1951 - and no I don't remember that particular event personally ;-). > The Manchester machine claims to be the first _stored program_ machine. > It was the first electronic computer, and I think also the first > computer, to hold its software in main memory. It was far too small for > this to be sensible - the purpose was to demonstrate the principal of it > with a view to using similar hardware and software designs on larger > machines in the future. All previous machines had a main store for > data, and a programming panel for patch leads etc. to hold instructions. Again yes, the Manchester machine had a main memory of 32 words each of 32 bits, it had one accumulator and an instruction set of only 6 instructions. It was built in 1948 to prove the reliability of the Williams tube storage system. The very same hardware was then extensively developed into a fully fledged computer over the next two years. Ferranti, under a government contract, built 6 or 7 production versions, the first of which went to Manchester as stated above. > Soon after the Manchester machine ran, the EDSAC project in Cambridge > pulled ahead with a large scale stored program (Von Neumann) machine. > Professor Wilkes, who ran this project, said in one talk he gave that > they had wanted to include floating point in EDASC, since it was already > available on many relay computers, but this had to wait until a later > design... Indeed, the interests of the Manchester team were in the hardware design, the Cambridge team were more interested in the programming and uses of computers. So while Manchester developed hardware technologies, Cambridge developed software. Manchester has a long and illustrious history of firsts in the computing area. As well as the first working stored program electronic computer, they were the first to incorporate index registers, the first working transistor computer, and the first virtual memory. That is not to say that others were not working on the same or similar lines, its just that Manchester managed to get there first, sometimes by just a month or two. More info about the Manchester machines and the rebuild project at -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Oct 21 08:54:49 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Apple questions In-Reply-To: <344C5278.76AF1213@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Oct 20, 97 11:58:01 pm Message-ID: <9710211254.AA05181@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2390 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971021/cc5c9b3f/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Oct 21 09:37:54 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Apple questions In-Reply-To: <344C5278.76AF1213@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > Not being an Apple person, what is the major difference between the Apple ][ > and the Apple ][+? For probably the first time in my life, I started > playing around with one today. I noticed the motherboard only said Apple ][ > on it with no mention of the plus. Is this mainly a difference of when the > boards were made coupled with a different set of ROMs? Only real functional difference is which set of ROMs were installed. The Apple ][ came with the Integer ROM set, and the ][+ came with the Applesoft ROMs. The later Apple ][+ machines also no longer had the memory jumper blocks to the left of the RAM array. > Also, I have a > language card. Is this card usable on any Apple or only the Plus's? Either. It plugs into slot 0, and the cable plugs into the upper left hand corner RAM chip socket (remove the chip first B^} ) > Are ][e cards interchangeable with the +? In most cases, yes. > How does one know which slot to plug > the cards into since I have heard Apple cards are slot sensitive? Depends a lot on the card. Language card in slot 0, printer card in slot 1, disk controller (usually) in slot 6... > I can see why most Apple users don't *want* to know what is inside :). Maybe today... B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 21 09:43:42 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Apple questions References: <9710211254.AA05181@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <344CBF9E.ABD69611@rain.org> Tim Shoppa wrote: > You weren't around a few months ago when we had this argument, were you? > :-) > Briefly, *Most* Apple II cards are not slot-sensitive. If you want to What can I say. However, listening is not as good as doing when it comes to retaining information :)! > Most of these questions are answered far more thoroughly in the very > well-maintained Apple II FAQ: > > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/a2/index.html Great, and thanks for the URL! From hdwarden at netins.net Tue Oct 21 09:34:49 1997 From: hdwarden at netins.net (hdwarden@netins.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: FWD: Manchester Baby Programming Competition In-Reply-To: <9709208773.AA877394921@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199710211445.JAA11052@worf.netins.net> In <9709208773.AA877394921@compsci.powertech.co.uk>, on 10/20/97 at 05:47 PM, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk said: >Are you _sure_ the ABC was electronic? I was under the impression that >the 1930s machines were all (almost all?) relay computers. Konrad Zuse >is the pioneer whose name is oft mentioned here... Thanks for your response. The ABC was definitely electronic. Vacuum tubes were used as part of the calculation logic, and capaciters were part of the memory (combined in a mechanical rotating drum). Many concepts used for the first time are still in use in modern machines, although with significantly different technology. I have found a web site with some information, at: http://www.sci.ameslab.gov/ABC The ABC was certainly not a general purpose machine, and I couldn't find information on how it was programmed. It did use a card reader and punch for input and output. The patent case showed that the Eniac used concepts from the ABC, and invalidated Speery's attempt to collect royalties from the other large manufacturers. According to the web site, the memory was 30 words of 50 bits each. This was apparently similar to the Manchester prototype. Harlan ------------------------------------------------------ Harlan Warden, near Van Cleve Iowa hdwarden@netins.net ------------------------------------------------------ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Oct 21 10:24:13 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: items available.. Message-ID: <8c1894b5.344cc8f6@aol.com> i'm organizing command central here some ,and have a few things that *might* be useful to someone else. epson equity I user's guide. i'm a big fan of original documentation and shipping materials that things came in so i have two empty boxes available. the first is for a tandy cm11 monitor and the second is for an apple imagewriter I which i'm using to store 10 meg bernoulli carts at the moment, lol. i dont have the foam packing material though. message me before it all gets round filed one day. david From prp at hf.intel.com Tue Oct 21 11:19:55 1997 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 211 References: <199710210702.AAA13885@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <344CD62B.1309@hf.intel.com> > Program the world's first computer! "First" is always difficult, especially in computers. Here are some examples of early machines, draw your own conclusions. The Harvard Mark I was electromechanical. It was fully capable of running a complex calculation, with the program on punched card stock separate from the data. This is where the term "Harvard machine" comes from, referring to a machine where the program and data are in separate memory. The ABC (1939) was mostly electronic, including electronic storage with mechanical access. But its program was, I believe, on a plugboard. It was not as general purpose as, for instance, the Mark I. The Colossus (1944?) was all electronic. It was very special purpose and barely if at all programmable. The Eniac (1946) was all electronic and general purpose. It was programmed by plugging. It and the Harvard Mark I were decimal and a lot like a bunch of adding machines cobbled together. The SSEM (1948) was all electronic and general purpose (but extremely small.) It was a true stored program machine. It was also binary. The Univac I (1950) was all electronic, general purpose and generally useful (and also decimal.) It was a commercially available computer, unlike all the previous ones. Paul Pierce From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Oct 21 15:21:36 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? Message-ID: (disclaimer: it has a 6502 in it, so its kind of a computer B^} ) Anyone out there have any information / docs. on a Scantron model 888mc 'Test Scorer'? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Oct 21 17:16:01 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, James Willing wrote: > (disclaimer: it has a 6502 in it, so its kind of a computer B^} ) > > Anyone out there have any information / docs. on a Scantron model 888mc > 'Test Scorer'? > God, I hate those! They score those damn "fill in the dots" tests. You remember those? We still have a few in school. (I'm a senior in HS). I may be able to get more info tomorrow. We have one which connects to a PC. It does the attendance. It looked like the PC was doing the running and the ScanTron unit was just a glorified punch-card reader. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Oct 21 17:38:23 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, James Willing wrote: > > > (disclaimer: it has a 6502 in it, so its kind of a computer B^} ) > > > > Anyone out there have any information / docs. on a Scantron model 888mc > > 'Test Scorer'? > > > > God, I hate those! They score those damn "fill in the dots" tests. You > remember those? Remember them?!? I just finished filling out three of them! (you will never escape them!) > We still have a few in school. (I'm a senior in HS). I > may be able to get more info tomorrow. Any info appreciated. > We have one which connects to a PC. It does the attendance. It looked > like the PC was doing the running and the ScanTron unit was just a > glorified punch-card reader. Pretty accurate description for most of them, altho this one is a self-contained stand-alone unit. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 21 18:08:14 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: 387 emulators (was: Wanted:387 SX) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971021160619.5f57782e@ricochet.net> At 05:07 PM 10/20/97 +0000, you wrote: >> 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually worked >> well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It actually >> fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on my 386SX >> and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). >Not. Autocad is processor heavy program and better unload that FP to >that coprocessor result in even powerful system when using the >suitable s/w like autocad. IIRC, Autocad *requires* a mathco, so one has a choice of a) buying a mathco (used to be $$$), b) running with an emulator, or c) not running autocad. As to whether the system will run faster with or without a software mathco emulator, I must admit, it would seem obvious that an emulator would only slow the system down (by using more Cpu time to handle the emulator than going straight to the CPU -- kinda like buying direct from the mfr and eliminating the middleman) but I cannot say that that's true without testing it. The FRANKE87 program may be really good at what it does, enough to make a difference when compared to Intel's idea of FP math. I have to say that if Merch says he measured the difference and the emulator is faster, I'll take his word for it until proven wrong. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dastar at wco.com Tue Oct 21 21:02:24 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > God, I hate those! They score those damn "fill in the dots" tests. You > remember those? We still have a few in school. (I'm a senior in HS). I Wow! A high schooler who's into old computers? Unless there is a pre-pubescent teenager on this list, I think Daniel has the record as the youngest collector of old computers. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Oct 21 21:52:07 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: relative age Message-ID: <199710220252.AA13688@world.std.com> >Wow! A high schooler who's into old computers? Unless there is a >pre-pubescent teenager on this list, I think Daniel has the record as the >youngest collector of old computers. Well, he beats me by two years for age (I'd guess), but when did he *start*? -- Andy Brobston brobstona@wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole. From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 21 23:01:29 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: finally found: Your Computer References: <19971018024733920.AAD160@computer-name> Message-ID: <344D7A6C.7382@worldnet.att.net> mhop wrote: Oh well I'll try to go faster next time :) Thanks for offering it. > > Oh, sorry it took so long to reply. I had 5 people reply within minutes, so I > gave it to the first person. His email was only 2 minutes earlier than the > next. :) > sorry. > > mhop@snip.net -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Oct 21 23:07:22 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: relative age In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com's message of Tue, 21 Oct 1997 22:52:07 -0400 References: <199710220252.AA13688@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199710220407.VAA24671@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > if highschool was x years ago: > 1980 s100, apple][, swtp, LSI11, micronova Microprocessor chips > 1977 PDP-11, vax, nova Some LSI and bit slice ... HP 3000 Series II. Well, that's what we had at my high school in 1977. Sometime along about 1980 it got upgraded to a Series III. Micros weren't in the schools in 1977 but some of us were aware of them (I used to hang around the Radio Shack and poke at the TRS-80). HP brought the 2000A timeshared BASIC system out in...1967? I know there were some (later models, 2000F and 2000 Access) still in service at various Washington DC suburban area high schools into the early 1980s at least, maybe into the mid-1980s. Prince Georges County (Maryland) and Fairfax County (Virginia) both had them, maybe others too. ... We had a mark-sense reader way back then in 1977. An HP 7260A, hooked up as a pass-through device between the terminal and the 3000, but the 3000 had some special "driver" software (in the form of the FCARD intrinsic, which sent the right escape sequences down the wire to get the card reader to Do Stuff). We used it daily to "run attendance": each student had an associated IBM card, and the homeroom teacher would send the cards for absent students to the office. Read cards into disc file, run programs to generate report (print report on continuous-form ditto paper with tractor holes) and update database with attendance information. We also used it twice quarterly to do progress reports (mid-quarter) and report cards (end of quarter). These used mark-sense forms that were pre-printed, then printed in the line printer, then sent out to the schools and teachers where they were torn apart along their perfs, marked, folded, spindled, mutilated, and sent back for reading. Note that bit about being torn apart along perfs. Feed a few thousand of these through (the 3000 at our site did processing for about a dozen schools) and the torn perfs leave lots of paper dust all over in the reader. Twice a quarter, we used to have to call the CE to come out, take ours half apart, and vacuum all the paper dust out so we could read the attendance cards. After I graduated I found that they'd replaced the 7260As with Scan-Tron readers. I saw one once but, well, it's been 14 years or so and I didn't really look at how it plugged in -- given that they had it talking to the 3000 somehow I would bet that it did RS-232. I think I remember being told that they had had to write some software to deal with it, but I guess that wasn't too big a deal as they had also changed the mark sense forms, from two that would fit down a slot designed for IBM cards to one that was wider and didn't need to be kept synchronized with a partner. -Frank McConnell From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 22 00:40:55 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: relative age Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971021223903.6adff47e@ricochet.net> At 10:52 PM 10/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >1985 Apples, macs, Rainbows, PRO350s maybe some PCs > >1980 s100, apple][, swtp, LSI11, micronova Microprocessor chips Actually, ca. 1980-83, I had access to a DEC PDP-11/70 (RSTS/E), PC's, Atari 800's, TRS-80 ModIII, and maybe a couple others. But I think computers may have been a little more prevalent here in San Francisco. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From pcoad at wco.com Wed Oct 22 00:55:48 1997 From: pcoad at wco.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: relative age In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971021223903.6adff47e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 10:52 PM 10/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > >1985 Apples, macs, Rainbows, PRO350s maybe some PCs > > > >1980 s100, apple][, swtp, LSI11, micronova Microprocessor chips > > Actually, ca. 1980-83, I had access to a DEC PDP-11/70 (RSTS/E), PC's, Atari > 800's, TRS-80 ModIII, and maybe a couple others. But I think computers may > have been a little more prevalent here in San Francisco. > 81-84 My school had TRS-80s (I and III) and some sort of Zenith (M/PM?) system. There was nothing else (except in 84 the "business" (read typing) department got an IBM PC. This might have something to do with the fact that Radio Shack was the only place in town that sold computers. Atleast 5 of us had computers at home (TI, C64, TRS-80, Sinclair). Thinking about it we had a pretty good sampling of the early 80's pre-packaged machines. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Oct 22 01:07:35 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: RE-PC Stuff Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971021230735.00e8c420@mail.wizards.net> For those of you in Washington state (Puget Sound area), RE-PC currently has a good assortment of classic stuff in their 'as-is, where-is' department, including at least a pair of Commodore 64's. They're located south and slightly east of the Kingdome, 1565 6th Ave. south, about two blocks north of Holgate on 6th. They may be reached locally at (206) 623-9151. I'd suggest a visit before the end of the year. They tend to do these big purges every so often. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 22 01:21:35 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Osborne I Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971021231944.0bb74dd0@ricochet.net> Just an FYI... An Osborne 1 is on the block at ebay -- current bid is $42. I've got my fair share or I would be bidding on it... http://206.79.255.82/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1144704 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 22 02:03:07 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971022000116.6adff402@ricochet.net> At 04:23 PM 10/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >The battery charger is just 9VDC, but I hope you have a functional >battery, since the Mac Portable will not run on the battery charger. >There is no AC adapter. The batteries are lead-acid and tend to >deteriorate over time. Eventually all of these machines will stop >working. Thanks for the info! Do you know if it's positive on the inside or outside? (either + -O)- - or - -O)- + ?) I found a web page that says you can bypass the battery by replacing the 9v with a battery eliminator and removing both the lead acid batt and its cover. If I can find a power supply, I'll give it a try (since I think my battery is hosed.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From bigi at univ-avignon.fr Wed Oct 22 05:41:11 1997 From: bigi at univ-avignon.fr (Brigitte Bigi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: olivetti M20 Message-ID: <344DD847.1F0F@univ-avignon.fr> hey, sorry but my english is very bad. I found the address http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/classiccmp/1997-08/msg00233.html I have a Olivetti M20D (with - processor Z8001, - floppy disk 5'1/4, - hard disk - 160 Ko (i think 128 + 32) - a printer I haven't undertood if you have an identic machine or if you found this. I know some commands to use it, like : - vf (volume format) with 0: or 10: (floppy or hard disk) - vl (volume list), - etc... If you have some information about this computer, ... you can say these ... You can consult my home'page at : http://taln.univ-avignon.fr:8080/personnel/bigi.html Bye... and sorry if i haven't undertand what you wanted. -- ---------------------------- | Brigitte Bigi | | Laboratoire d'Informatique | | C.E.R.I. | | 339, ch. des Meinajaries | | 84911 AVIGNON Cedex 9 | | 04.90.84.35.25 | | bigi@univ-avignon.fr | ---------------------------- From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Oct 22 07:21:49 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Relative age Message-ID: <0f81c40221216a7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> In 83-85 (high school), we had mostly Apple IIs, and a DEC dot-matrix terminal to access a time-shared computer somewhere. In Jr. High (81-83), we used mostly Commodore PETs (mostly the 4016 and 4032). AFAIR, there were no Tandys or Ataris Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From scott at saskatoon.com Wed Oct 22 08:57:04 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 1997, James Willing wrote: > > God, I hate those! They score those damn "fill in the dots" tests. You > > remember those? > > Remember them?!? I just finished filling out three of them! > (you will never escape them!) Just to add to this thread... Today is our civic election (Mayor, Councillers, Health Board, School Board...) here in Saskatoon. City council has been making a big deal about the election going 'High Tech' for the first time. No, this doesn't mean I get to vote from home over the internet... it doesn't mean I push a button, or pull a lever... Yes, it means I'll be filling in the dots instead of marking Xes today! ttfn srw From dastar at wco.com Wed Oct 22 09:25:08 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL WRITE-UPS Message-ID: Ok, time for those write-ups to start pouring in. I understand if you didn't have time to do it but could you let me know if you were supposed to do one but didn't so that I can plan appropriately? Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Oct 22 09:29:33 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Relative age Message-ID: <971022102820_-760621114@emout05.mail.aol.com> around 1984-1985, we had all apples in hi skool mostly //e's and epson fx80 printers but there were a few ][+ models in an adjoining room. i remember going to a mall once and seeing an apple ///, but was unfamiliar with it. in 1986 at a community college, they had more //e models, trs80 model 3 machines, i think, and ibm XTs with cga monitors. i never used anything else until around 1988 when i discovered a friend with an atari 800xl with the 1050 disk drive and i used that to type in programs from the magazine called compute, of which i still have the issues. david From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Oct 22 10:21:56 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: Relative age In-Reply-To: <0f81c40221216a7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> Message-ID: In my senior year (1979), they were using OSI C1P's and C4P's (remember them?). The year before, I used an ASR teletype to access a timeshared PDP-11/23 (at 110baud). The stupid thing was in a closet in one of the classrooms. Clanka, clanka, clanka, clanka, CHING! (I probly coulda used a .wav file, but you get the idea . ..) Jeff From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Oct 22 10:07:04 1997 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: DEC LK201 keyboard Message-ID: <6568a4f2.344e1670@aol.com> Someone gave me a box of 10 or so DEC LK201 keyboards. A couple of them work and the rest do not. Several seem to have the same problem in that the 4 status LED's all light up, but the keyboard does not respond. Has anyone encountered this problem and repaired the keyboard? Does anyone have a schematic for this keyboard that they could copy and send to me? Having several DEC machines, it would be nice to have a few spare keyboards. Thanks, Mike Thompson From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Oct 22 10:36:13 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:18 2005 Subject: DEC LK201 keyboard Message-ID: <199710221536.AA05981@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971022094142.006ca798@mail.wco.com> I am attaching a list that is only part completed. I am sure I have at least twice as many more to enter into my list. I will send the completed list soon. doug At 10:13 PM 10/14/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Is there anywhere on the net northstar* dos version 5.x for DD controllers. >My archives only have the single density version. > >Allison > > > -------------- next part -------------- NorthStar Disks
Program
ID OS Disk Computer Program Box
1 Total Busines Solution 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage TBS Operating System 2.1.1 AH Start-up Disk PN 02079B NS1
2 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown PM Program GBASIC DATA NS1
3 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - Mail list NS1
4 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - CRIS NS1
5 HDOS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon Copy of Drive 4 - NS1
6 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ACCPAC Inventory Control - Demo disk 3 NS1
7 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ACCPAC Inventory Control - Demo disk 2 NS1
8 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ACCPAC Inventory Control - Demo disk 1 NS1
9 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Advantage InfoManager II - CRIS NS1
10 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - NorthWord - Project Money NS1
11 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II Project Coupon NS1
12 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage NorthWord II - Doug's life history - data disk NS1
13 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage NorthWord II - Video Yearbook - data disk NS1
14 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown Tax Writeup NS2
15 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown Tax 1040 Format NS2
16 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Unknown Monitors CDD4 2A00 0000 NS2
17 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - proj LIBERTY bldg NS2
18 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - proj SCOUTS NS2
19 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
20 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
21 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
22 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
23 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - proj COMP Year End NS2
24 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - proj COUPON year end NS2
25 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
26 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS2
27 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - project LIT NS2
28 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - project SCOUTS NS2
29 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Dentist One Master - New - (BASIC?) NS2
30 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Dentist One - Data Disk NS2
31 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - project TODD - Thanksgiving NS2
32 Advantage Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II - projcet Drive1 xtalk NS2
33 Total Busines Solution 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ACCPAC Accounts Payable System, 100*QH NSRD2 PN 03822A NS2
34 Total Busines Solution 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ACCPAC Inventory Control System40 100*QH NSRD2 PN 03826A NS2
35 Advantage Hard Unknown Advantage MicroPlan Sysetm Disk Advantage NS3
36 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon dBase II 2.35 1.0.0 *QH PN 02288A NS3
37 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label (Dentist One - basic?) NS3
38 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label (Dentist One - basic?) NS3
39 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown DentistOne G/CPM Microsoft Basic - Wordstar NS3
40 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown Misc CP/M Programs, xtalk - micropro stuff, etc. NS3
41 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown CP/M .BAS files NS3
42 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Graphic CP/M 2.2 1.2.0 AQH PN 267998 NS3
43 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown NorthStar CP/M ? NS3
44 CP/M 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon Misc CP/M Programs xtalk, MicroPro Stuff, etc NS3
45 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage CP/M Data disk dentistone drive two development NS3
46 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage GCP/M Microsoft Basic Master drive one development disk NS3
47 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Graphic CP/M 2.2 1.2.0 AQH Master #267998 NS3
48 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon CP/M Northstar Rel 2.2 1.2.0 DQH # 013871 PN 11082C NS3
49 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Unknown dBase data NS3
50 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Graphic CP/M 2.2 1.2.0 AQH Master #267998 NS3
51 Unknown Unknown Horizon Crosstalk ver 2.0s Microstuf, Inc SN 01723 - dealer copy not for sale NS3
52 HDOS 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon TSS/C Auto Boot H. DOS 2.0.0H NS4
53 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/C 1.0.0H CP/M Utilities disk 00897A 00h96A (ORIGINAL) NS4
54 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/C 1.0.0H CP/M Utilities disk 00897A 00896A (ORIGINAL) NS4
55 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Startup 2.0.0H Multi-User Version (ORiGINAL) NS4
56 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Password 2.0.0H Multi-User Version (ORIGINAL) NS4
57 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilities 2.0.0H Multi-User Version Disk #2 of 2 (ORG) NS4
58 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilities 2.0.0H Multi-User Version Disk #1 of 2 (ORG) NS4
59 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Multi-User Update 2.0.0H Multi-User Version (ORIGINAL) NS4
60 Floppy or Hard Unknown Horizon Application Software Utilites Transfer Utilities 1.1.0 DQ (ORIGINAL) NS4
61 HDOS Unknown Horizon NorthWord Sample Data 3.0.1 H Hard Disk Version (ORIGINAL) NS4
62 HDOS Unknown Horizon NorthWord 3.1.4 H Hard Disk Version (ORIGINAL) NS4
63 HDOS Unknown Horizon Application Software Utilities Transfer Utilities 1.1.0 DQ (Original) NS4
64 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Startup 2.0.0 H Multi-User Version (Origianl) NS4
65 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilites 1.0.0 H Multi-User Version (Origianl) NS4
66 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilities 2.0.0 H Multi-User Version Disk #1 of 2 (ORG) NS4
67 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilities 2.0.0 H Multi-User Version Disk #2 of 2 (ORG) NS4
68 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Application Software Utilities 1.0.0 H Multi-User Version Disk #1 of 2 (ORG) NS4
69 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Multi-User Update 2.0.0 H Multi-User Version (Orginal) NS4
70 CP/M Unknown Horizon TSS/A Password 2.0.0 H Multi-User Version (Orginal) NS4
71 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
72 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon ACCPAC OrderEntry Sample 1.0.0 QH NSRD2 BSG10584 NS5
73 CP/M 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon TSS/A Utilites 1.0.0H NSRD2 03778A NS5
74 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Unknown BSDS 1.0 DRV NS5
75 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Unknown No label NS5
76 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
77 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon Destist Aid old Master NS5
78 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown Crosstalk - 1200 baud NS5
79 Unknown 10 Hard Sector SD Unknown No label NS5
80 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon No label NS5
81 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon No label NS5
82 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon No label NS5
83 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon No label NS5
84 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon No label NS5
85 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon No label NS5
86 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon No label NS5
87 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon ACCPAC OrderEntry Housekeeping 1.0.0*QH NSRD2 03892A NS5
88 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
89 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
90 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
91 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
92 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS5
93 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Worksheet Wizard System Disk Advantage #01225 NS6
94 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoChange 1.0.0 AQ System Disk Advantage NS6
95 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II 1.0.0 AQ System Disk Advantage NS6
96 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage InfoManager II 1.0.0 AQ Extract Disk NS6
97 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon WordWizard System Disk 1.0 Basic Software Group NS6
98 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon General WordWizard Data Disk NS6
99 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector DD Horizon WordWizard System Disk NS6
100 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon WordWizard Sample Data NS6
101 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon WordWizard System NS6
102 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon NorthStar InfoManager II 1.0.0 *Q Sample data (Original Disk) NS6
103 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon NorthStar InfoManager II 1.0.0 *Q Extract Disk (Original Disk) NS6
104 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage NorthStar InfoChange 1.0.0 AQ System Disk - ADVANTAGE Version (Original) NS6
105 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage NorthStar InfoManager II 1.0.0 AQ System Disk ADVANTAGE Version (Original) NS6
106 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Commission Accounting II 2.0.0 System Disk Advantage LiCom Services LTD. (ORG) NS6
107 Advantage Flopy Unknown Advantage MISYS Manufacturing Inventory System Disk Floppy Demo Ver 1.0.0 Advantage (ORG) NS6
108 Advantage Flopy Unknown Advantage MISYS Manufacturing Inventory Sample Data Floppy Demo Ver 1.0.0 Advantage (ORG) NS6
109 Advantage Flopy Unknown Advantage MISYS Manufacturing Inventory Skeleton Data Floppy Demo Ver 1.0.0 Advantage (ORG) NS6
110 Advantage Flopy Unknown Advantage MISYS Manufacturing Inventory MINI-DEMO North Star ADVANTAGE Version (ORG) NS6
111 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector DD Advantage Games - Advantage NS7
112 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage A Format Disk ?? NS7
113 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector DD Advantage Games - Advantage NS7
114 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Address Labels Advantage Basic NS7
115 Advantage Flopy 10 Hard Sector QD Advantage Games - Advantage NS7
116 Floppy or Hard 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon NorthWord II System - w/Spell NS7
117 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown InfoManager II NS7
118 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown NorthWord II Data Disk NS7
119 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Compile Disk for Terminal & Printer Drivers 1.0.0 Quad RMSI - Master NS8
120 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Compile Disk for Floppy ASP 2.3.1 1.0.0 Quad RMSI - Master NS8
121 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Compile Disk Hard 1.0.0 Quad RMSI - Master NS8
122 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Install Disk 1.2.0H - NSRD1 BG070282 Test Disk -- Do Not Distrib RMSI Master NS8
123 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Compile Update Disk Compupda 1200 NSRD1 BG080382 TEST RMSI Master NS8
124 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Source Library III (Tutorial Sample Prog) 1.0.0 Quad RMSI Master NS8
125 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS System Source Library Disk 1 1.0.0 Quad RMSI Master NS8
126 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Source Library 6 (NorthWord Data) SRCLIBVI 1100 NSRD1 BG032682 Test RMSI NS8
127 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Skeleton System Disk 1.0.0 Quad RMSI Master NS8
128 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Source Library 2 Terminal & Printer Drivers 1.0.0 Quad RMSI Master NS8
129 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS ASP Skeleton Disk for Advantage Skeleton 1000 NSRDI GB041482 - Test RMSI M NS8
130 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Compile For TSS/A Terminal & Printer Drivers - Term/Ptr 1100 NSRDI BG032082 NS8
131 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Advantage Source Library 5 Graphics & Drivers SCRLIBV 1100 NSRDI BG032682 NS8
132 ADS 10 Hard Sector QD Horizon ADS Advantage Compile Graphics & Drivers GRAP&DRV 1100 NSRDI BG032682 NS8
133 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
134 Unknown 10 Hard Sector DD Unknown No label NS8
135 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
136 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
137 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
138 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
139 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
140 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
141 Unknown 10 Hard Sector QD Unknown No label NS8
From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Oct 22 11:09:08 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: DEC LK201 keyboard In-Reply-To: <6568a4f2.344e1670@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 1997, Mzthompson wrote: > Someone gave me a box of 10 or so DEC LK201 keyboards. > A couple of them work and the rest do not. > > Several seem to have the same problem in that the 4 status > LED's all light up, but the keyboard does not respond. > Has anyone encountered this problem and repaired the > keyboard? Uh-oh... I've seen _that_ one before... I have never seen an LK201 with a logic fault. What tends to happen is that a short occurs somewhere in the membrane keyboard assembly which confuses the microcontroller at power-on. To check this : 1) Remove the feet and the 2 screws under them. Lift off the top cover. Unplug the keyboard cable at both ends 2) Release the little clips, slide the keyboard to the right, lift it out of the lower cover 3) Remove the heatsink clip from the 7805. Remove the screw from the LED mounting. Move the logic board away from the keyboard unit. Unplug the 3 keyboard tails 4) Either put pieces of plastic/card under the metal clips that hold the tails in place (to avoid shorting all the pins together) or bend up the tabs and remove said clips altogether. Now plug the bare logic board into a VT220 or similar. You'll probably find that the lights do the right thing. In which case you've got a matrix fault. The bad news is that fixing the matrix is next-to-impossible. You _can_ attempt to dismantle it (cut off the heat-spread pins on the back, remove the keycap mounts and the leaf springs, unfold the membrane). Putting it back together is less easy - there isn't enough of the pegs left to spread over a second time. I managed it once, but it was a _fiddle_. Washing the assembled keyboard (even in an ultrasonic cleaning tank) never worked for me either. > > Does anyone have a schematic for this keyboard that they There are 2 versions, one (the much more common one in my experience) based on an 8051, the other based on a 6805. I traced out the schematics of the first one years ago, and it took about 30 minutes to do - it's just the 8051, a few 74145's as column decoder/drivers, a line driver and receiver for the terminal interface and the 5V PSU. But, as I said, I've never seen a fault in that section. > could copy and send to me? Having several DEC machines, > it would be nice to have a few spare keyboards. > > Thanks, > Mike Thompson > -tony From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Oct 22 13:27:05 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Apple II SCSI SW Message-ID: <0e04001281816a7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Does anyone know what software is required for the Apple II SCSI card?? I got the card last week from a friend of mine, but without SW. Apple's ftp site has only a "SCSI Utilities Disk", but the description says nothing about "drivers". Alltech Electronics carries a new CMS card with SW, but for $40. Seems that I should be able to get the Apple SW for less than that... Any clues appreciated! Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 22 14:42:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Apple II SCSI SW In-Reply-To: <0e04001281816a7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> from "Richard A. Cini" at Oct 22, 97 02:27:05 pm Message-ID: <9710221842.AA06709@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971022/bc8598a3/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 22 14:01:20 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: 387 emulators (was: Wanted:387 SX) Message-ID: I can verify that *some* floating point functioncs (basic ones ususally ie +, -, etc) can be emulated faster than the stock 80387 or 80387sx co-processor can do them. The majority of functions can not be emulated faster though. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Uncle Roger [SMTP:sinasohn@crl.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 1997 6:08 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: 387 emulators (was: Wanted:387 SX) > > At 05:07 PM 10/20/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually > worked > >> well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It > actually > >> fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on > my 386SX > >> and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). > >Not. Autocad is processor heavy program and better unload that FP to > > >that coprocessor result in even powerful system when using the > >suitable s/w like autocad. > > IIRC, Autocad *requires* a mathco, so one has a choice of a) buying a > mathco > (used to be $$$), b) running with an emulator, or c) not running > autocad. > > As to whether the system will run faster with or without a software > mathco > emulator, I must admit, it would seem obvious that an emulator would > only > slow the system down (by using more Cpu time to handle the emulator > than > going straight to the CPU -- kinda like buying direct from the mfr and > eliminating the middleman) but I cannot say that that's true without > testing it. > > The FRANKE87 program may be really good at what it does, enough to > make a > difference when compared to Intel's idea of FP math. I have to say > that if > Merch says he measured the difference and the emulator is faster, I'll > take > his word for it until proven wrong. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen > know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Oct 22 14:50:43 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: relative age In-Reply-To: <199710220252.AA13688@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971022155043.00718778@mail.wincom.net> At 10:52 PM 10/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Frightening. ;-) > >here are some numbers > >If you are in highschool now: > >-0 PCs are known as current > >if highschool was x years ago: > >1990 PCs and macs > >1985 Apples, macs, Rainbows, PRO350s maybe some PCs > >1980 s100, apple][, swtp, LSI11, micronova Microprocessor chips > >1977 PDP-11, vax, nova Some LSI and bit slice > >1971 PDP-8, PDP-10 TTL mostly, some utilogic and transistors > FYI the main computers in the shuttle are this era technology. > >1965 PDP-5 Transistors. > >1960 First generation transistors, vacuum tubes > >1952 first commercial machines, tubes > >1947 prototypes, tubes and relays > >If you were like me and did electronics as a kid following on to a career >then everything made from '64-65ish on was current at one time or another >to me. Then again I went to the NY worlds fair 1964/5! > >Allison > > You folks are all young sprouts... when I was in H.S. (1938) our AV equipment was a wind up phonograph (disks, not cylinders,) and a lantern slide projector. Once someone from Bell Telephone brought in a movie projector and showed films! Calculations? they were done with a pencil on "foolscap". And no, I didn't have Socrates for a teacher. Cheers Charlie Fox From jrbrady at mindspring.com Wed Oct 22 15:21:16 1997 From: jrbrady at mindspring.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Relative Age Message-ID: <199710222021.QAA15139@camel14.mindspring.com> Frank McConnell wrote: >HP brought the 2000A timeshared BASIC system out in...1967? I know >there were some (later models, 2000F and 2000 Access) still in service >at various Washington DC suburban area high schools into the early >1980s at least, maybe into the mid-1980s. Prince Georges County >(Maryland) and Fairfax County (Virginia) both had them, maybe others >too. In Orange County, California, the local community college ran an HP2000/Access system utilized by the local high schools. Each school had Digital LA36 and Lear-Siegler ADM-3A terminals connected at a blazing 300 baud. It still running at the time of my graduation in 1983. I have fond memories of the HP system, having written many pro- grams on it (including one that triggered an "OUT OF MEMORY" error... talk about the need for optimized code!) If memory serves, the beast was decommissioned several years later. Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@mindspring.com Seattle, WA From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Oct 22 17:10:49 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Relative age In-Reply-To: <971022102820_-760621114@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: For refrence, I'm 18, I use everything from a TD-1(Demo shell, but it's as close to a real '10 as I'll get!) to the PDP-11 to a DEC Alpha server (At a customer's site.) I MUCH prever V7 unix to the BSDi I deal with at work. NT just plain sucks. Old computers are faster and MUCH cooler than new ones! I also read Hackers books (Not new hackers, 1st and 2nd gen hackers) and read alt.hacker for laughs. I'm obviously DEC oriented. Mainframes are fun to watch. So are IBM programmers - kinda like watching Charlie Chaplin try to cook a shoe. (Obvious refrence to fortune file). I watch Sailormoon and some other anime, Naoko rules! Sailor moon forever! etc. etc.. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Oct 22 17:24:18 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: SCORE! Message-ID: I will have soon: A PDP-11/84. Working. It has an RL02, but no pack. And more! I do have now: A DEQNA network card. Now I just gotta get Fuzzball to build... I may have my 11/23+ up soon! From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 22 18:50:52 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: A few deals found Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971022235052.0068b750@pop3.concentric.net> Well I been at again and found some good ones, list to follow. We've got a big Hamfest and computer sale this weekend in St. Paul (MN) and I hope to find a few things there got my ticket already. Well on to the list: 1. SOROC IQ120 for $5, this is the first monitor I purchased back 1978 for my Nortstar that I got for $3200 wow now a get them for 1 to 5 dollars. 2. Amstrad pc-20 with all the manuals but no monitor for free. 3. CPT SRS45 tower with monitor but no KB $5.00 4. IBM 3864-2 type II for free 5. Mac SE with 1 mbyte ram, 800k FD and 20sc HD for $5 6. Data General One with power brick and it works $5 7. Zenith ZF-158-42 for $5 8. Laser Pal 386sx with KB, no monitor, manuals and software disk $5 9. IBM type 3476 monitor for $5 10. two boxes full of manuals and old software for free 11. Sun model 4/20FM-8 monitor for $5 12. Sun 3/110c-B cpu chip taken out but got the case and some boards for $5 13. Apple MAC II no KB or monitor for $5 14. 2 Sum mice and two KB a type 5c and a type with cables for free 15. MT1000 controller that works for free 16. Sun 3/260HM-8 case only all the boards were gone for $5 17. SPARCstation IPC with HD taken and memory all gone and unit taken apart so the guy gave it to me for free. That's the short list the first three days of this week and I have picked up over 35 items but the wife is starting to ask questions. I've had to rent another storage unit to hold my collection. I'm working with two different groups right now trying to get a building to house a museum and hope to get some State and federal help with the funds. Keep computing !! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 22 22:08:13 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: A few deals found In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971022235052.0068b750@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Oct 22, 97 06:50:52 pm Message-ID: <9710230208.AA04107@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 267 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971022/26ae2ac0/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 22 22:19:29 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Mac Portable Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971022201729.2a2757d6@mail.crl.com> At 02:03 AM 10/22/97 -0500, I wrote: >Thanks for the info! Do you know if it's positive on the inside or outside? >(either + -O)- - or - -O)- + ?) Oh fiddle. I meant to send that directly to the person I was replying to, but I goofed. Sorry. But thanks anyway to all who responded. Btw, I think that the page I quoted went a little overboard. I don't think you *have* to replace the 9volt battery with an adapter, but you can. (Duh.) Still, I saw the switch that requires removing the L-A battery cover (and presumably, you would want to remove the battery as well to run off AC?) I'll report back after trying it out. (I picked up a variable power adapter from RatShack today 'cause I've got quite a few machines missing adapters.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 23 01:47:18 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Nice Week References: <9710230208.AA04107@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <344EF2F6.971127F7@rain.org> I got two calls from friends of mine wanting to get rid of stuff. From the first, I received a TRS-80 model 100, an Apple IIGS, an Apple IIc, and a small printer. From the second, I received a mint TRS-80 model 100 in the hard case along with the manuals, two cassette tape software packages, a service manual, and a technical manual. I just missed a C-64 and disk drive at the thrift store, both priced at $0.90 each. But I did pick up a working lasertag target for $0.90! BTW, anyone remember when lasertag was popular? I have a set of two guns and two (now three) targets and was thinking about putting them on ebay. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Oct 23 05:41:37 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 vs. Kaypro II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > No, the format is the same, but the different ROM version requires a > different Kaypro revision of CP/M-2.2. I am assuming that your II has > full height drives and the 2 has half high ones. If a 2, they would > still be single sided, but if a 2X then double sided. Hmmm. Actually, my 2 also has full height drives. Or at least, the faceplates are full height. I haven't opened it to see what size the actual mechs are. I guess it's a bad sign that the 2 doesn't see anything on the II's disks. Possibly the drives just need cleaning, though. I just wish I had a cleaning kit for 5.25" drives (ugh!). I think it's already been mentioned where those are available. I think I'll end up using your services to get proper system disks for both my Kaypro machines. The II had a boot disk left in it, but it has WordStar on it, and I can't copy or format new disks with what I've got. It's about time I got at least one of the machines to be a bit more useful. :) Hopefully I can get the 2 working, as it's the nicer machine than the II. It's got the stand in front, and a much nicer green phosphor monitor in it. The II's monitor always looked pale and sickly to me, just because it's a brighter shade of green. > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From Eros at mail.dec.com Thu Oct 23 09:54:30 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Where do you go to find stuff? Message-ID: I suspect this question would be a good addition to an FAQ... Where do you tend to go to find classic computer equipment? Around here (Delaware) I hit garage sales (pretty slim pickin's), swap meets, Salvation Army and Goodwill. A local chemical company has a surplus disposition center that parcels out a limited number of PC and Mac systems. In addition, there's a twice-weekly Goodwill that has occasionally yielded something useful. Any other suggestions? -- Tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Oct 23 13:45:57 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX Message-ID: <9709238776.AA877650605@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Roger Merchberger wrote: > 1) I have a couple co-processors -- make me an offer. Yes please! I need a 387SX in a 68 pin plcc to go in the bottom of a Compaq LTE Lite 20. $15? > 2) I saw several emulators, but the only one I found that actually worked > well, the file was called "FRANKE87" and was German in origin. It actually > fooled AutoCad 10 into believing there was a co-processor chip on my 386SX > and actually did speed up FP instructions (measured with CheckIt). Emulator doesn't interest me - I'm not likely to run much serious stuff on my PC anyway... > I may have a copy of it somewhere, but that's no guarantee, as my 386 has > been sold for a coupla years now, and my P150+ doesn't need it. ;-) You've got a WHAT? Go and wash your mouth out with soap and water and don't ever mention the word P*****m on this list again! ;-) (At least, not until it's ten years old) Seriously, though, I found when looking around last year (when I got the Compaq laptops) that most of the electronics catalogues _didn't_ contain the 80387 any more. I must search the net... Philip. From brensue at ois.net.au Thu Oct 23 11:14:14 1997 From: brensue at ois.net.au (Brendan Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Where do you go to find stuff? References: Message-ID: <344F77D6.563E@ois.net.au> Anthony Eros wrote: > > I suspect this question would be a good addition to an FAQ... > > Where do you tend to go to find classic computer equipment? Around here (Delaware) I hit garage sales (pretty slim pickin's), swap meets, Salvation Army and Goodwill. A local chemical company has a surplus disposition center that parcels out a limited number of PC and Mac systems. In addition, there's a twice-weekly Goodwill that has occasionally yielded something useful. > > Any other suggestions? > > -- Tony Tony, Here in Western Australia, many places have a rubbish recycling service where the stuff people throw away has to be seen to be believed ! I regularly pick up pc/xt desktop/portable/luggables for a song, usually for $US 2.50 to $US 10.00 . Perhaps you may have the same sort of thing in your area... Best of luck, Brendan From chemif at mbox.queen.it Thu Oct 23 20:51:22 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Wanted:387 SX References: <9709238776.AA877650605@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <344FFF1A.3CA0@mbox.queen.it> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > Seriously, though, I found when looking around last year (when I > got the Compaq laptops) that most of the electronics catalogues > _didn't_ contain the 80387 any more. I must search the net... Have you looked at MISCO catalog? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computers, Phones and Phonecards Collector Forli' - Italy chemif@mbox.queen.it --------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Oct 23 12:45:21 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 vs. Kaypro II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <344f8c2b.5429940@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 06:41:37 -0400 (EDT), you said: > >On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > > > I had forgotten it, but there's a Kaypro hiding in my garage. A 2X, but I don't know much about it and lack space right now to set it up to check. I do have quite a few CP/M disks and *star progs. I also have many original disks labeled Kaypro 4. I know even less about them... (So much stuff, so little time, sigh!) _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 23 14:08:43 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Info on a Scantron unit? Message-ID: <199710232001.NAA08099@mx5.u.washington.edu> >Wow! A high schooler who's into old computers? Unless there is a >pre-pubescent teenager on this list, I think Daniel has the record as the >youngest collector of old computers. One of my customers is (I think) a Freshman; he collects old stuff. That would make him 14 or 15. Another, Steve O., just joined the group (you listening, Steve?). He's young, but I don't know how young. Not all of us are ancient. From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 23 14:20:05 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: relative age Message-ID: <199710232003.NAA18336@mx4.u.washington.edu> > You folks are all young sprouts... when I was in H.S. (1938) our AV >equipment was a wind up phonograph (disks, not cylinders,) and a lantern >slide projector. Once someone from Bell Telephone brought in a movie >projector and showed films! Calculations? they were done with a pencil on >"foolscap". And no, I didn't have Socrates for a teacher. I went through HS on a slide rule. Someone brought in an electromechanical calculator to my math class, and I fell in love with it. ps Where did "Foolscap" get its name? E-mail me... (extremely off-topic) manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 23 14:37:55 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Head Start Explorer Message-ID: <199710232004.NAA04638@mx3.u.washington.edu> Is anyone interested in a Head Start Explorer (seems to be an XT with built-in CGA). Has a dead floppy, no hard drive. Boots up fine on ROM. manney@nwohio.com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Oct 23 15:39:45 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: DEQNA Message-ID: Anyone got the pinout of the AUI connector on this? Will it work with any AUI? From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Oct 23 16:41:38 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: relative age In-Reply-To: <199710232003.NAA18336@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <1390EC6B0442@ifrsys.com> > > You folks are all young sprouts... when I was in H.S. (1938) our AV > >equipment was a wind up phonograph (disks, not cylinders,) and a lantern > >slide projector. Once someone from Bell Telephone brought in a movie > >projector and showed films! Calculations? they were done with a pencil on > >"foolscap". And no, I didn't have Socrates for a teacher. > > I went through HS on a slide rule. Someone brought in an electromechanical ^^^^^^^^^^ > calculator to my math class, and I fell in love with it. > You know, I think my generation was the last to learn about using the slide rule in highschool (I graduated in 1979). In 1975, when I was a freshman, all students in my school were requied to learn it; it was part of the ISM (Intro.to Sci. Method) program which all students had to pass in order to graduate. When asked "WHY?", school administrators had a plausible answer: "It teaches you how to read scales and graduations commonly found on lab equipment." OK, fair enough. Of course, nowadays I imagine most of the analytical balances in use are digital . . . From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Oct 23 16:45:10 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: RX02 disks and S/34 disks. Message-ID: Is there a way to get a S/34 8" disk to work like an RX02 disk? I need a few more RX02s. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Oct 23 18:19:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: RX02 disks and S/34 disks. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 23, 97 04:45:10 pm Message-ID: <9710232219.AA16838@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 551 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971023/1773984a/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 23 20:40:51 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: A few deals found Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971024014051.0068e110@pop3.concentric.net> You,re right just s slip of the tongue, I used my first one with a northstar as it had no KB or video with it. At 07:08 PM 10/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >> 1. SOROC IQ120 for $5, this is the first monitor I purchased back 1978 for >> my Nortstar that I got for $3200 wow now a get them for 1 to 5 dollars. > >I may be remembering things wrong, but I thought a IQ120 was a terminal, >not a monitor. > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 23 20:49:24 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Where do you go to find stuff? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971024014924.00692534@pop3.concentric.net> I hit some of the same places except garage sales. Just look out for private thrift and talk with the manager must are willing to work with if you take it by the load and not try to pick out just the ones you want. I can get real low prices by working it that way, must times they don't have that much. I talk to people at the goodwills that I meet there and give them one of my cards my wife made. These cards id me as a Computer Collector and gives my home phone and e-mail address. These cards have gotten me alot of free items. Well good luck and Keep Computing !! At 10:54 AM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >I suspect this question would be a good addition to an FAQ... > >Where do you tend to go to find classic computer equipment? Around here (Delaware) I hit garage sales (pretty slim pickin's), swap meets, Salvation Army and Goodwill. A local chemical company has a surplus disposition center that parcels out a limited number of PC and Mac systems. In addition, there's a twice-weekly Goodwill that has occasionally yielded something useful. > >Any other suggestions? > >-- Tony > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 23 21:04:31 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Another good day Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971024020431.00681dc4@pop3.concentric.net> Today I went to 3 thrift stores from Hopkins to Bloomington to St. Paul and found a few items. Sun 3/160S-4 seems to be all there will try to fire it up this weekend, another Sun 4/20FM-8 monitor, Apple language cards, tape and HD rack for Sun 160, Apple IIc Plus with the 3.5 FD and built-in power supply will test this weekend this is my second one of these I got the first in St. Louis MO this past summer at a flea market, I got some other items but have not written them down yet it was too cold at the storage unit so I just unloaded the car and left. The highest price item was $10, the other were either $5 or free. Good hunting to all From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Oct 23 22:14:06 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: N.O.S. ST-506 disk drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <14C165C45BFB@ifrsys.com> N.O.S. = New Old Stock: Very old parts, never used or installed. This guy (Alfred Blanchard) has a lead on a pile of ST-506's: Forewarded from alt.folklore.computers: -------------- Forewarded Message Follows -------------------------- Hi all, Is there any general interest in NEW ST-506 (5 Meg) MFM hard drives? I have found a source of some 200 drives. These are NOT used. In fact they are still in their original shipping contianer. I was not quoted any specific prices for these so I can't say how much the owner wants for each. So I told him I would post a message to see if selling these drives are worth the effort. TIA, A. J. -- DSC Communications Corporation Internet:ablancha@spd.dsccc.com 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** The opinions expressed are not those of DSC Communications, Inc ** From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 24 00:34:48 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Another good day References: <1.5.4.32.19971024020431.00681dc4@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <34503378.22C0@worldnet.att.net> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Today I went to 3 thrift stores from Hopkins to Bloomington to St. Paul and > found a few items. Sun 3/160S-4 seems to be all there will try to fire it > up this weekend, another Sun 4/20FM-8 monitor, Apple language cards, tape Don't forget theBIG one at the civic center in St Paul on Saturday!! Can you post the addresses of those thrift stores, I'm not familiar with any in those places. Only in Burnsville, Lakeville and Eden prairie. Maybe sometime we can do a raid together. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 24 00:40:23 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: A few deals found References: <1.5.4.32.19971022235052.0068b750@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <345034C7.3937@worldnet.att.net> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Well I been at again and found some good ones, list to follow. We've got a > big Hamfest and computer sale this weekend in St. Paul (MN) and I hope to > find a few things there got my ticket already. Stop at my booth I'll have a few vintage computers there, TI 99/4A Beige with a few carts, C64's and a bunch of PC cards. I'm still packing I may add a few more computers (duplicates). I can't till friday night (setup time) I get to see the good stuff first. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From bede0005 at garnet.tc.umn.edu Wed Oct 22 18:48:38 1997 From: bede0005 at garnet.tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: FWD: Early user interface design Message-ID: <199710240442.XAA03261@ted.asap.net> Hey Folks:: I found this on CSA2 newsgroup. Thought some of you in the bay area might be interested. I would LOVE to go but it's a long way from Minnesota. If anyone does attend, I would like to hear about how it was rob ======================================================================== + please forward and post as appropriate within the Bay area + Bay Area Computer History Perspectives and The Computer Museum History Center present "Early User Interface Design at Apple" Larry Tesler and Chris Espinosa Stagecast Software Apple Computer 5:30 PM, Tuesday, Oct. 28 Computer Museum History Center Building 126 Moffett Field Mt. View (directions at end) Note: if you plan to attend, please reply to Zoe Allison at 415/604-2575, or send email with your name to allison@tcm.org. Please indicate if you aren't a US citizen, thanks. When Larry Tesler came to Apple in 1980 from Xerox Palo Alto Research Center, he introduced user interface testing to the Lisa project. Only recently did Larry learn that Chris Espinosa had conducted Apple II user interface testing a couple of years earlier. This program will review the story of early user interface design at Apple, up to 1984, for the Apple II, the Lisa, and the Mac. Larry and Chris will be presenting original internal Apple memos and drawings from the period which have not been shown previously in public. A historic videotape will also be shown of actual Lisa user interface testing, among the earliest such tests at Apple. This program is free and open to the public. In 1980 Larry Tesler managed applications software and user interface design for the Lisa division, and later became VP and Chief Scientist at Apple. He is now president of Stagecast, a K-12 software startup. Chris Espinosa started working at Apple at the age of 14, bicycling over after school to do the weekly Apple II demos. He later worked on the original Mac design team, and recently has managed the Media Tools group at Apple. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Next program: November 12: The influence of Doug Engelbart's work over the last 30 years. These lectures are sponsored by The Computer Museum History Center and Sun Microsystems. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Directions: from highway 101 in Mt. View, take the Moffett Field exit (ignore any signs or exits for Moffett Blvd.). You will come immediately up to the Moffett Field main gate. Park to the right side of the gate, in the visitor's parking area, and go into the Visitor Office building to get a badge and further directions. Remember to call 415/604-2575, or email allison@tcm.org, if you plan to attend. -- Dag Spicer Manager of Historical Collections The Computer Museum History Center Moffett Federal Airfield Mountain View, CA 94035 Offices: Building T-12A Exhibit Area: Building 126 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@tcm.org WWW: http://www.tcm.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) From kevan at heydon.org Fri Oct 24 03:34:52 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II Message-ID: <199710240834.JAA19611@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Just got this, if anybody is interested then follow up directly to him. ------- Forwarded Message From: leelouden@webtv.net (Lee Louden) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:44:01 -0700 To: collector@heydon.org Subject: TRS-80 Model II I have, and am currently using the above mentioned. It is a complete system with original desk and matching printer stand. The original system without extra software sold for 10k. I am the original owner and have taken good care of it . This is the 8" floppy drive system with a triple expansion bay, modem and daisey wheel printer. Any interest? ------- End of Forwarded Message -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Oct 24 06:45:50 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Osborne I Floppies Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971024074550.006897f0@mail.wincom.net> Of the Seimens FDD 100-5 drives on my Osborne I, drive A is worn and tempermental. I am trying to switch A and B. There are no obvious jumpers, and cable connections are identical to both drives. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks Charlie Fox From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Oct 24 06:50:30 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: DEQNA In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 23, 97 03:39:45 pm Message-ID: <199710241150.EAA03946@fraser> Hi: My DEQNA works with many types of standard transceivers. I'm not sure of the pinout though. I can look it up on Sunday if you need it. Kevin > > Anyone got the pinout of the AUI connector on this? > Will it work with any AUI? > > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Oct 24 06:57:46 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: relative age In-Reply-To: <199710232003.NAA18336@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971024075746.0068db7c@mail.wincom.net> At 03:20 PM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >> You folks are all young sprouts... when I was in H.S. (1938) our AV >>equipment was a wind up phonograph (disks, not cylinders,) and a lantern >>slide projector. Once someone from Bell Telephone brought in a movie >>projector and showed films! Calculations? they were done with a pencil on >>"foolscap". And no, I didn't have Socrates for a teacher. > >I went through HS on a slide rule. Someone brought in an electromechanical >calculator to my math class, and I fell in love with it. > >ps Where did "Foolscap" get its name? E-mail me... (extremely off-topic) > >manney@nwohio.com > > In one of my old dictionarys.... "Fools'cap n a size of paper, 17 x 13 1/2 inches, which used to have as its watermark a fool's cap and bells." This is disappointing, as I had in mind that it might have just been a convenient size of paper for the teacher to form into a dunce cap for her less able students. Cheers Charlie Fox From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 24 08:01:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: System/34 diskettes as RX02 diskettes Message-ID: Holepunching them doesn't work. I tried. Format resets the drive about 8 times and says Device Error. Attempting to boot from one says Controller Failure. I know the device works, I use it for the 3 RX02s I do have. Oh well. BTW, anyone know where I can get an RL02 pack cheap? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 24 11:03:20 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: System/34 diskettes as RX02 diskettes In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 24, 97 08:01:30 am Message-ID: <9710241503.AA07134@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971024/9ae3caa9/attachment.ksh From Deborah909 at aol.com Fri Oct 24 11:50:26 1997 From: Deborah909 at aol.com (Deborah909@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 Message-ID: <971024125026_1135343196@mrin41.mail.aol.com> Dear Colleagues, I am the information systems coordinator of a large social service agency in Boston that owns a System 36 that we no longer use. In addition to the system itself, we have a printer, software, manuals, and several workstations. Can you give us some assistance in donating or recycling our equipment? Many thanks! Best regards from Deborah Elizabeth Finn Information Systems Family Service of Greater Boston 34 1/2 Beacon Street Boston, MA 02108 617-523-6400, ext. 5506 (voice) 617-523-3034 (fax) fsgb@fsgb.org (internet) deborah909@aol.com (internet) From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 24 11:54:17 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Nice Week Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971024095224.48bfb79e@mail.crl.com> At 11:47 PM 10/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >lasertag target for $0.90! BTW, anyone remember when lasertag was popular? >I have a set of two guns and two (now three) targets and was thinking about >putting them on ebay. Yep... There's a new version on the market (saw 'em at both Toys-R-Us and Price Club.) Used to (still do?) have a rifle and a couple of handguns, plus a target or two. Had a lot of fun with them! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 24 11:54:21 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:19 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2 vs. Kaypro II Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971024095230.48bfa6bc@mail.crl.com> At 06:41 AM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >disks. Possibly the drives just need cleaning, though. I just wish I had >a cleaning kit for 5.25" drives (ugh!). I think it's already been >mentioned where those are available. I picked up a kit with both a 5.25 & 3.5 cleaning disk at CompUSA for like $2. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 24 11:54:29 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Head Start Explorer Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971024095236.48bfa66c@mail.crl.com> At 03:37 PM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >Is anyone interested in a Head Start Explorer (seems to be an XT with >built-in CGA). Has a dead floppy, no hard drive. Boots up fine on ROM. Is it a portable type or an all-in-one (ala PS/1)? If the former, I'm interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 24 11:54:33 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: relative age Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971024095240.48bfba52@mail.crl.com> At 03:41 PM 10/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >You know, I think my generation was the last to learn about using >the slide rule in highschool (I graduated in 1979). In 1975, when I >was a freshman, all students in my school were requied to learn I started HS in '79 and I was the only person I knew that knew what one was (other than *some* of the teachers.) Still got mine. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From chemif at mbox.queen.it Fri Oct 24 21:46:05 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: "HOW TO REPAIR" Files (was Re: DEC LK201 keyboard) References: Message-ID: <34515D6D.3388@mbox.queen.it> Tony Duell wrote: > To check this : > > 1) Remove the feet and the 2 screws under them. Lift off the top cover. > Unplug the keyboard cable at both ends > > 2) Release the little clips, slide the keyboard to the right, lift it out > of the lower cover > > 3) Remove the heatsink clip from the 7805. Remove the screw from the LED > mounting. Move the logic board away from the keyboard unit. Unplug the 3 > keyboard tails Great! My compliments to Tony. This is really one of the thing this M/L must provide:mutual assistance in troubleshooting. I think that we sould build up a "How to repair" file archive divided by family of machines and peripherals. What do you think? BYE! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computers, Phones and Phonecards Collector Forli' - Italy chemif@mbox.queen.it --------------------------------------------------------------------- From chemif at mbox.queen.it Fri Oct 24 22:40:28 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Where do you go to find stuff? References: <344F77D6.563E@ois.net.au> Message-ID: <34516A2C.3C3C@mbox.queen.it> Brendan Reynolds wrote: > Tony, > Here in Western Australia, many places have a rubbish recycling service > where the stuff people throw away has to be seen to be believed ! I > regularly pick up pc/xt desktop/portable/luggables for a song, usually > for $US 2.50 to $US 10.00 . > Perhaps you may have the same sort of thing in your area... > Best of luck, > Brendan I started looking for similar places 6 years ago, when I was collecting old public telephone exchange parts (very hard). My suggestion is to connect informations coming from both ends of the computer recyclyng/wasting. Personally I started to visit scrapyards. Here is hard to find someone that is specialized in reciclyng *only* or *mainly* computers, so you have to visit scrapyards looking for machines, but MAINLY for infos about from WHO or WHERE the machines come. This is important because those recyclers cares about metals only, so they load/unload them with no care, and keep them under the rain. After I know the organization's name, I contact them and try to know how it works:Was it a spot? or they throw machines on a regular basis? I found that I (as many of us, I think) can hardly replace recycler's work. Organizations prefers them for many reasons: 1)They are Companyes, not privates. 2)They are *specialized* and *careless* with items = very fast in cleaning up. 3)Sometimes they made auction for dismantling big installations (I.G. Telephony field) 4)Sometimes the "recycler" is one charitable association (they finance missions with the computer sales incomes) and responsibles of those organizations prefers (of course) to "help" those associations. So at least it's important to know when there will be the next "handover" and find the better way to try to pick rare/useful items. With some recyclers you have to pay the value of the equivalent iron weight, with someone else you have to try to lower a price made on the estimation based on they're own computer knowledge (=0) and it's a hard work. I have succeeded in making an agreement with a recycler that is satisfied with my help in moving items from those organizations to its scrapyards. Good luck! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computers, Phones and Phonecards Collector Forli' - Italy chemif@mbox.queen.it --------------------------------------------------------------------- From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 24 17:08:40 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Yes! Frontpanel machines! Message-ID: 2 11/34s, for $20. Good! More when I go see them tomorrow From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 24 19:39:35 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: "HOW TO REPAIR" Files (was Re: DEC LK201 keyboard) In-Reply-To: <34515D6D.3388@mbox.queen.it> from "Riccardo Romagnoli" at Oct 24, 97 07:46:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971025/333e2731/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Oct 25 09:50:50 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: BA23 Message-ID: Does anyone have any info on the controllers inside here? It says Fixed Disk and Removable Disk. What kind of disks is it expecting? From manney at nwohio.com Sat Oct 25 09:19:03 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 upgrade chip wanted Message-ID: <199710251500.IAA17905@mx4.u.washington.edu> Wanted -- 386 to 486 upgrade chip -- 386-40 DX CPU 486 motherboard & chip (are those >10 yrs old, yet?) Thanks, manney@nwohio.com From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Oct 25 10:15:17 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 upgrade chip wanted Message-ID: <19971025151959.AAA11662@hotze> The 386's are 12 years old, but most machines that have them are 9 years or less. The 486's will celebrae their 8th birthday soon, but most computers that had them (outside of servers and REAL pro computers) were made in '92-'95, then they were replaced by faster Pentiums. Hope that helps, Tim D. Hotze photze@batelco.com.bh ---------- From: PG Manney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: 386 to 486 upgrade chip wanted Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 5:19 PM Wanted -- 386 to 486 upgrade chip -- 386-40 DX CPU 486 motherboard & chip (are those >10 yrs old, yet?) Thanks, manney@nwohio.com From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Oct 25 10:18:02 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 upgrade chip wanted Message-ID: <19971025152200.AAA11754@hotze> One more thing: I wouldn't upgrade a machine, as that just makes it something that it wasn't meant to be, but if you wanted, look in Computer Shopper magazine by ZD, or look in http://www2.classifieds200.com and go to computers then motherboards, then chips. You shouldn't upgrade, if you asked me. See you, Tim D. Hotze photze@batelco.com.bh ---------- From: PG Manney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: 386 to 486 upgrade chip wanted Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 5:19 PM Wanted -- 386 to 486 upgrade chip -- 386-40 DX CPU 486 motherboard & chip (are those >10 yrs old, yet?) Thanks, manney@nwohio.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Oct 25 12:28:32 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: BA23 In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 25, 97 09:50:50 am Message-ID: <9710251628.AA12096@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 705 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971025/78324d61/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Oct 25 17:02:15 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: NorthStar info?? Message-ID: <0ad2019292219a7UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> Hello, all: I just got my hands on a North Star system with a load of S-100 boards (mostly Vector Graphics boards; some of which labeled "BAD"). Does anyone have any info on the following: Vector Graphics: ZCB Z80 processor board, 12k PROM board, 16K SRAM board and 64k SRAM board, Micro-Disk floppy controller. I also need info on a Solid State Music video interface board (I think that I have a bad RAM chip on mine). TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Oct 25 03:18:34 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.0068f9f0@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <199710252241.SAA01742@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming > Thanks to those who e-mailed me to keep the list going, I too like to see > what others are finding and the price items are going for. This also to > helps hear about computers and other items that I may have never seen or > hear of. But first about the rescue - I have located about one half of a > 20,000 sq ft warehouse FULL of computers, monitors, printers, manuals, sales > promo items, old software, system disk. I'm talking C64 to SUN to maybe > HP3000 types and a couple of stripped down mainframes (not IBM's). I spent > the last two Saturdays trying to work out a deal and hope to know this week > or next if can start unloading these items for them. I will send out an > e-mail to all as soon as I get the word. I, for one, love your listings. Keep on, keep on, keep on. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From martin at lister.force9.co.uk Sat Oct 25 19:56:03 1997 From: martin at lister.force9.co.uk (Martin Cockerill) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <199710260007.CAA20328@relay2.force9.net> Can you get hold of the Game The Gauntlet From Zeus334 at aol.com Sat Oct 25 19:56:29 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <971025205236_1311512235@emout11.mail.aol.com> Gauntlet for what machine? I think I may still have a copy for C-64 From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 25 20:12:02 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971026011202.0068f99c@pop3.concentric.net> Well the Hamfest is over and I got a few items but missed alot more, too big for one person to be get to the tables fast enough. Got some leads on Next cubes and Sun items for little or no cost, will be talking with them more next week. If they have enough I will post the information. About a two hour drive from me. On to the list On Friday I found a Zenith luggable ZFA121-52 not tested yet $5 this baby is big with the flip up floppy drives on the top, Apple mouse IIe platinum free, digital tape unit TLZ04-DA $5, 2 Mac Plus M0110A keybroads, a couple of laser printers and several USR password modems for $10. Today at the Hamfest I got digital GIGI model VK100-AA with manuals for free, HP model 433SX station $10 no power supply uses the external power brick like the old plotters will have get one from storage and test this unit, Commodore CBM4040 dual drive .80, a Sharp Wizard 64KB for $20 needs new batteries can't test it yet, a old 256k/64k RAMCHECK tester for $10 this unit is by Innoventions of Houston need to write and see if the have doc's on this old unit, and last a few cables and other odds & ends for $1 each. The day was not as good as hoped as there were several really good bargins that got away by seconds. Well hope everyone else also had a good week and Keep Computing. John From gram at cnct.com Sat Oct 25 20:09:36 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US References: <9709208773.AA877372240@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34529850.4D8435E@cnct.com> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones. My fiancee permits me a whole 8" by 10" > > room in the basement for my laboratory. Not much room to actually _move > > Eight by ten inches? You poor thing! But I expect you are exaggerating... One of the minor annoyances about collecting classic computers is the variety of decisions that were made in placement of punctuation on the keyboards. That was supposed to be feet, not inches, of course. And it would be worse, not better, if I were a touch typist. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Oct 25 21:44:02 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US Message-ID: <19971026030030.AAA14417@hotze> I have a similiar problem: Due to the large size of the XT style motherboards, my desk devoted to classic computers isn't big enough. I can fit the computer on, the monitor on the computer, and the keyboard on the floor. When you try to type, it's not fun. (Type a command. Stop. Before entering it, look up at monitor. Takes about twice as long.) PS- How do you post an origional message? Do you just send one to9 classiccmp@u.washington.edu , or somewhere else? Tim D. Hotze photze@batelco.com.bh ---------- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Space problems in the UK and US Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 4:09 AM Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones. My fiancee permits me a whole 8" by 10" > > room in the basement for my laboratory. Not much room to actually _move > > Eight by ten inches? You poor thing! But I expect you are exaggerating... One of the minor annoyances about collecting classic computers is the variety of decisions that were made in placement of punctuation on the keyboards. That was supposed to be feet, not inches, of course. And it would be worse, not better, if I were a touch typist. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Oct 25 21:53:33 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <19971026030030.AAB14417@hotze> Do you want to sell these things? Because if so, I'm really interested. Where I live (In Bahrain, in the Mid-East), everyone has gotten rid of anything 5+ years old. (But not to many people have anything much newer :) !) I might have a lead on an Apple I, and other of the older models of Apples, but that's with a friend in the US, but if I do get some, I'll let everyone know. I REALLY want a NeXT cube, and a Sun, if you find enough. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze photze@batelco.com.bh ---------- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 4:12 AM Well the Hamfest is over and I got a few items but missed alot more, too big for one person to be get to the tables fast enough. Got some leads on Next cubes and Sun items for little or no cost, will be talking with them more next week. If they have enough I will post the information. About a two hour drive from me. On to the list On Friday I found a Zenith luggable ZFA121-52 not tested yet $5 this baby is big with the flip up floppy drives on the top, Apple mouse IIe platinum free, digital tape unit TLZ04-DA $5, 2 Mac Plus M0110A keybroads, a couple of laser printers and several USR password modems for $10. Today at the Hamfest I got digital GIGI model VK100-AA with manuals for free, HP model 433SX station $10 no power supply uses the external power brick like the old plotters will have get one from storage and test this unit, Commodore CBM4040 dual drive .80, a Sharp Wizard 64KB for $20 needs new batteries can't test it yet, a old 256k/64k RAMCHECK tester for $10 this unit is by Innoventions of Houston need to write and see if the have doc's on this old unit, and last a few cables and other odds & ends for $1 each. The day was not as good as hoped as there were several really good bargins that got away by seconds. Well hope everyone else also had a good week and Keep Computing. John From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Oct 25 23:00:15 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: ST506 drives available. Message-ID: <971026000015_1668108125@mrin42.mail.aol.com> i lurk alt.folklore computers, and some guy on there claims that he's discovered a cache of NOS 5 meg st506 drives. he hinted at some volume purchase from interested parties. i'd be willing to buy a few as a group purchase, like the deal that fell through with the little handheld machines earlier this year. for more info, check out the thread in alt.folklore.computers. david From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Oct 25 21:21:19 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: <199710151010.GAA21679@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199710260626.BAA29555@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:23:46 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: William Donzelli > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Info on things old wanted... > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the > > > IBM card machine may be > > pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything > > without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? > > This whole family of data processing machines is commonly called "unit > record equipment". Yes, the stuff does process data just as a modern > database can, but they are really not general purpose data crunchers like > a "standard" computer. > > > This might be the beginning of an epistimological revision to rival > > that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any > > kind of new pop music. > > The lines of history are often very blurry. Rarely does anything get > invented or changed in an instant of time. Data processing machines are no > exception, but one does have to come up with some naming conventions, or > use ones already in place. I was just using an existing one. > > And no, I never implied that computers started with LSI chips - as a few > of you people know, I collect minis mostly, and two of my machines do not > have integrated circuits at all. I still call them computers (OK, one is > actually a calculator, but I am not going to open that can of worms). > Maybe we're talking of different kinds of worms. : ^ ) but I've always considered Babbidges machine the first computer. I've got an old Monroe mechanical calculator in my collection that I don't call a computer tho it "crunches" numbers , but the Enniac which was preprogrammed by plugboard IIRC ,is considered a computer by any authority I've ever read . The 80 col "computer" card would be a misnomer in that case. The sorters, collators, keypunch, and compilers I worked on in the 50's tho obviously not computers were I\O adjuncts just as keyboard, DDs and modems are now. Plugboards were handwired to delineate paths for info just as present-day programs do. Am I missing something from your original post ? Did you mean pre-processing rather than before the computer era ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Oct 25 21:21:19 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings In-Reply-To: <344651DB.B8EAE1AF@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <199710260626.BAA29558@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:41:47 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "David C. Jenner" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings > I have an Archive FT60 tape drive (uses DC600A cartridges) that I am > trying to install. I don't have complete information on the jumper > settings of the adapter card (8-bit ISA). > > The card has several markings on it: > Archive Corporation, FCC ID: EAX6GPSC499-R > ?(unintelligible) A-200, 88 16, Rev B > DET. 50594-01 > e023391 > > Is there any chance that someone has specifications or an installation > manual around for this adapter? Also, last version of the MS-DOS > software (especially MS-DOS libraries to allow reading/writing, etc.) > > Thanks, > Dave Jenner > djenner@halcyon.com I have what would seem to be a somewhat similiar , up untill now unidentified card. It looked too interesting to toss (packrat syndrome :^) ) . It's an Archive FCC ID: EAX6GP-SC400S with a 50 pin internal connector and a 25 pin external ( SCCI ? ). It has several jumpered pins but some could have come loose. For what it's worth the jumpers are: pins a9- a3 ...... pins a9 and a8 jumpered pins kk,hh,ff,nn ..... pin kk jumpered pins dd,y,cc..........center pins jumpered ( y ? ) IRQ pins2-7 .......... 5 jumpered drq123 and dack 123 .... drq 1 and dack 1 jumpered Don't know if this is any help, but if yours is similarly jumpered it would confirm default jumpering. At least I now know what this board likely is. Thanks I'll be following this thread. Good luck. ciao Larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 01:57:42 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: New toy. Message-ID: I have the 2 PDP-11/34s in my possession now, and BOTH have tape drives! Too bad it runs too loud, or I'd be playing with it now... There were old DA boxes. Ran RT11, and had 64K of ram. I'll upgrade that, and drop on a copy of RSX11-M. I just hope that can fit on 2 RX02s... they have no harddisks. And the tape drives are some funny emulation, so this could get interesting... They have the chicklet-calculator frontpanels, not switches and lights (Darn!), but if I were to go get a few 11/45 boards, would this become a 45? Or is the frontpanel different between boxes? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 02:36:26 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: RSX-11M Tapes: Distribution or not? Message-ID: Are these RSX11M distrib tapes? They're small, like a 5 1/4" disk. I'll read off the labels: #1: BB-N353B-BC RSX11M V4.0 ATPCH B 16MT9 1/2 #2: BB-N680A-BC RSX11M V4.0 ATPCH B 16MT9 2/2 #3: BB-H881A-BC RMS-11K/RSX-11M V1.8 MT9 From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Oct 26 07:55:33 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Two Items Needed Message-ID: <19971026135927.AAA24291@hotze> Hello everyone. I'm new here, but am very interested in collecting computers. I want two things: 1. Information etc. on the Androbot. (Remember, the little robot that premiered about the same time as the XT?) 2. Any extra classics that you have that you could sell to me. In my area, it took me 4 months just to track down 1 XT in relatively bad condition. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From Zeus334 at aol.com Sun Oct 26 08:19:54 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Two Items Needed Message-ID: <971026091952_1690786023@emout09.mail.aol.com> Here in the Boston area, we have the streets paved with XT's; I pick them up from the trash every once in a while. Often I leave them for lack of space. By the way, does anyone know about the System/74? Original Message: Hello everyone. I'm new here, but am very interested in collecting computers. I want two things: 1. Information etc. on the Androbot. (Remember, the little robot that premiered about the same time as the XT?) 2. Any extra classics that you have that you could sell to me. In my area, it took me 4 months just to track down 1 XT in relatively bad condition. Thanks, From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 26 08:31:05 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971026143105.0068ace8@pop3.concentric.net> As soon as the call comes in I will be driving down to get the items and will sell or trade all the excess items. Keep computing !! At 05:53 AM 10/26/97 +0300, you wrote: >Do you want to sell these things? Because if so, I'm really interested. >Where I live (In Bahrain, in the Mid-East), everyone has gotten rid of >anything 5+ years old. (But not to many people have anything much newer :) >!) I might have a lead on an Apple I, and other of the older models of >Apples, but that's with a friend in the US, but if I do get some, I'll let >everyone know. I REALLY want a NeXT cube, and a Sun, if you find enough. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > photze@batelco.com.bh > >---------- >From: John R. Keys Jr. >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds >Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 4:12 AM > >Well the Hamfest is over and I got a few items but missed alot more, too >big >for one person to be get to the tables fast enough. Got some leads on Next >cubes and Sun items for little or no cost, will be talking with them more >next week. If they have enough I will post the information. About a two >hour >drive from me. On to the list >On Friday I found a Zenith luggable ZFA121-52 not tested yet $5 this baby >is >big with the flip up floppy drives on the top, Apple mouse IIe platinum >free, digital tape unit TLZ04-DA $5, 2 Mac Plus M0110A keybroads, a couple >of laser printers and several USR password modems for $10. Today at the >Hamfest I got digital GIGI model VK100-AA with manuals for free, HP model >433SX station $10 no power supply uses the external power brick like the >old >plotters will have get one from storage and test this unit, Commodore >CBM4040 dual drive .80, a Sharp Wizard 64KB for $20 needs new batteries >can't test it yet, a old 256k/64k RAMCHECK tester for $10 this unit is by >Innoventions of Houston need to write and see if the have doc's on this old >unit, and last a few cables and other odds & ends for $1 each. The day was >not as good as hoped as there were several really good bargins that got >away >by seconds. Well hope everyone else also had a good week and Keep >Computing. >John > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Oct 26 08:51:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: New toy. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 26, 97 01:57:42 am Message-ID: <9710261451.AA08005@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1178 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/f20591c8/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Oct 26 08:53:14 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: RSX-11M Tapes: Distribution or not? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 26, 97 02:36:26 am Message-ID: <9710261453.AA00172@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 565 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/3de227c8/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 09:57:16 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: RSX-11M Tapes: Distribution or not? In-Reply-To: <9710261453.AA00172@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > None of these are full RSX11M distributions. 11M 4.0, as originally > shipped, had numerous bugs. The first two tapes are filled with > patches to fix these bugs. The third tape you have contains RMS (Record > Management System), an optional product for RSX-11M in that time frame. Ahh, darn. Oh well, that shoots THAT idea to heck... Well, looks like I get to try building the Fuzzball or something... Oh well! At least I have the machines in the first place. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 10:00:29 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: New toy. In-Reply-To: <9710261451.AA08005@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > You'll never be able to do anything useful with RSX11-M on floppies. > Yes, you can squeeze a bootable system on. But you'll never be able > to do anything like a SYSGEN. I guessed that much. > > And the tape drives are some funny > > emulation, so this could get interesting... > > Probably MT: emulation. What sort of controller/formatter is used? Lemme go see... It's a Western Peripherals TC-121 card. It's apparently a Pertec Unformatted interface, there's 3 cables, Read, Write, and Motor Control. From william at ans.net Sun Oct 26 10:33:19 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: <199710260626.BAA29555@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: > Maybe we're talking of different kinds of worms. : ^ ) but I've > always considered Babbidges machine the first computer. > I've got an old Monroe mechanical calculator in my collection > that I don't call a computer tho it "crunches" numbers , but the > Enniac which was preprogrammed by plugboard IIRC ,is considered a > computer by any authority I've ever read . The 80 col "computer" card > would be a misnomer in that case. The sorters, collators, keypunch, > and compilers I worked on in the 50's tho obviously not computers > were I\O adjuncts just as keyboard, DDs and modems are now. > Plugboards were handwired to delineate paths for info just as > present-day programs do. > Am I missing something from your original post ? Did you mean > pre-processing rather than before the computer era ? Punched card technology was well established well before what we think of as the first electronic computers - ENIAC, the ABC machine, etc.. IBM, of course, was the biggie in the field (and oddly enough, entered the computing business a bit late), starting sometime in the 1930s. Was this IBM model 29 used with such ancient systems? Probably not - most likely it spent its time preparing cards for a System/360. As far as who developed the first computer - we could argue all day on that one. There are no distinct lines between technologies or generations. For example, do analog computers count? At what point does a complex feedback control become a computer? For example, do the computers used to direct gunfire count? They date from well before World War 2, and it took digital machines many years to surpass them in performance, yet I would not call them computers as we think of them. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 14:58:28 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the PDP-11/34 console cable pinout? Message-ID: I think this console cable's screwed, the machine boots OK but refused to talk to a console. Not even power-up line noise. And I know the terminal's good. Tried turning the cable both ways. Several wires are sunsoldered, but not any of the important ones... something's screwy with this cable. Anyone got a pinout of one? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Oct 26 15:23:35 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the PDP-11/34 console cable pinout? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 26, 97 02:58:28 pm Message-ID: <9710262123.AA14979@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 12105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/587fdd6a/attachment.ksh From dwalterm at ix.netcom.com Sun Oct 26 16:00:40 1997 From: dwalterm at ix.netcom.com (dwalterm@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: 8" floppy power connections... Message-ID: <1997102617346111478@> I have a couple old double-sided 8" floppies I want to get running. Does anyone have the pinouts for the square molex power plug? I think its +5, ground and +24v and ground but would like to be sure before turning them on. One drive is a Magnetic Peripherals Inc (CDC)BR8A8B still in the CDC styrofoam package. The other is a pull from an HP 9895 drive (the belt had fallen off). I'd also like to know how big a power supply I'll need to run two of these.... Thanks, Don Walterman dwalterm@ix.netcom.com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 16:39:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the PDP-11/34 console cable pinout? In-Reply-To: <9710262123.AA14979@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: Looks like I get to remake the cable. All the jumpers checked fine. I'll try this in the other 34 before I destroy this cable. From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 26 16:52:41 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: 8" floppy power connections... In-Reply-To: <1997102617346111478@> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 1997 dwalterm@ix.netcom.com wrote: > I have a couple old double-sided 8" floppies I want to get running. Does anyone have the pinouts > for the square molex power plug? I think its +5, ground and +24v and ground but would like > to be sure before turning them on. One drive is a Magnetic Peripherals Inc (CDC)BR8A8B still in > the CDC styrofoam package. The other is a pull from an HP 9895 drive (the belt had fallen off). > I'd also like to know how big a power supply I'll need to run two of these.... > Thanks, > Don Walterman > dwalterm@ix.netcom.com POWER CONNECTOR FOR 8" DRIVE DC Power Connector view looking at rear of drive ____ ____ | o |_| o | | 2 _ 1 | | o | | o | | 4 | | 3 | | o | | o | |_6__| |__5_| Pin Volts Amperes 1 +24 1.7 max 2 +24 Return 3 -5 Return 4 -5 0.07 max 5 +5 1.0 max 6 +5 Return - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sun Oct 26 16:52:53 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: See if this sounds wierd... Message-ID: I just noticed something. The SLU for this 34 is in the SPC slots only. There are 2 backplanes in this box. The SLU board is just below the bus jumper. Is that normal? Bus B Bus A ----+ +----- M9202 | S | L | U ----+ +------ From RWood54741 at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 27 05:45:20 1997 From: RWood54741 at worldnet.att.net (RWood54741@worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: classic computer email list Message-ID: <34547ED0.6EDB@worldnet.att.net> How do I subscribe to the Classic Computer email list? Thanks, BOB From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Oct 26 17:59:15 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings References: <199710260626.BAA29558@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3453D953.5218ECFB@halcyon.com> I should report that I actually tracked down the "agency" in charge of supporting this archaic product! Maynard bought Archive (or vice versa), Conner bought Maynard, and Seagate bought Conner. Seagate had no knowledge of the FT60. I was able, however, to find a bunch of old phone numbers for all the parties involved. I started calling them, expecting to find that they were long ago disconnected. Lo and behold, the first number (for Archive) was answer by some department deep in the bowels of Seagate tech support. They said they didn't have any knowledge of the FT60, but would "check around with a few old timers" to see if anyone had any ideas. The result was a referral to a place called TSSI at 800-286-0651 who handles support for the old hardware (but not software). Once I got across what I was trying to find, they were able to identify the board and find a several page blurb about it. The information they supplied enabled me to get the tape drive to work on an old PC/XT! The critical factor was that one set of jumpers was the COMPLEMENT of what you would normally expect. Larry can probably get the same source to help him out, because his card is undoubtedly in the same series (SC4xx), but wasn't detailed in the info I got. I guess the moral is, don't give up. Ask around, and try all the old phone numbers. Something might pay off. I would still like to find any updated software for the board/drive I have, especially a library (C or Pascal) that I can use to do raw reads/writes of the tape. I'll keep trying the phone numbers, right! Dave Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:41:47 -0700 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > From: "David C. Jenner" > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Archive Corp FT60 Adapter Board Jumper Settings > > > I have an Archive FT60 tape drive (uses DC600A cartridges) that I am > > trying to install. I don't have complete information on the jumper > > settings of the adapter card (8-bit ISA). > > > > The card has several markings on it: > > Archive Corporation, FCC ID: EAX6GPSC499-R > > ?(unintelligible) A-200, 88 16, Rev B > > DET. 50594-01 > > e023391 > > > > Is there any chance that someone has specifications or an installation > > manual around for this adapter? Also, last version of the MS-DOS > > software (especially MS-DOS libraries to allow reading/writing, etc.) > > > > Thanks, > > Dave Jenner > > djenner@halcyon.com > > I have what would seem to be a somewhat similiar , up untill now > unidentified card. It looked too interesting to toss (packrat > syndrome :^) ) . It's an Archive FCC ID: EAX6GP-SC400S with a 50 pin > internal connector and a 25 pin external ( SCCI ? ). It has several > jumpered pins but some could have come loose. For what it's worth the > jumpers are: > pins a9- a3 ...... pins a9 and a8 jumpered > pins kk,hh,ff,nn ..... pin kk jumpered > pins dd,y,cc..........center pins jumpered ( y ? ) > IRQ pins2-7 .......... 5 jumpered > drq123 and dack 123 .... drq 1 and dack 1 jumpered > > Don't know if this is any help, but if yours is similarly > jumpered it would confirm default jumpering. > At least I now know what this board likely is. Thanks > I'll be following this thread. Good luck. > > ciao Larry > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/db52098e/vcard.vcf From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Oct 26 18:02:21 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Does anyone have the PDP-11/34 console cable pinout? References: <9710262123.AA14979@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3453DA0D.C8152305@halcyon.com> Some of us read it, Tim! Don't despair! (Or turn it off!) Dave Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > I think this console cable's screwed, the machine boots OK but refused to > > talk to a console. Not even power-up line noise. And I know the > > terminal's good. Tried turning the cable both ways. Several wires are > > sunsoldered, but not any of the important ones... something's screwy with > > this cable. Anyone got a pinout of one? > > Sheesh. Why do I even bother running a FTP site filled with hardware > documentation when nobody even bothers to read it? > > In any event, here are dl11-w.info and dl11-w.info2 from > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware : > > Here's some stuff about the M7856 (DL11-W) module > (combined serial port/real-time clock), taken from > the print-set. As far as I can remember, there are 5 > sets of dip-switches on the board. Mode of operation > is selected as follows: > > Mode 1: serial line and RTC can both be addressed. > Serial line addresses are restricted to 77756X. [Standard > console address]. Line clock is at 777546. > Mode 2: Only serial line can be addressed. Address selection > ranges from 774000 to 777777. Line clock is disabled. > Mode 3: Only line clock can be addressed, serial line > does not respond to any address. Line clock is at 777546. > > Mode selection & address bits: > > Address bit A10 A09 A08 A07 A06 A05 A04 A03 N/A N/A > Switch S5-3 S5-2 S5-1 S5-4 S5-5 S5-6 S5-8 S5-7 S5-9 S5-10 > Mode 1 Off Off Off On Off Off Off On Off On > Mode 2 Off Off Off On Off Off Off On On Off > Mode 3 Off Off Off On Off Off On On On On > > Mode 2 is shown for serial line addresses 77756X. For address > bits in mode 2, switch off = 1 and switch on = 0. > [Apparently, it is not possible to deviate from the specified > address for the serial port in Mode 1 -- I have a feeling that > if you fiddle with the address switches in Mode 1, the LTC > address may move as well.] > > Note: remove R63 from DL11-W operating in Mode 2 to allow proper > operation of a line frequency clock or other DL11-W in Mode 1 > or Mode 3. [R63 goes from the BUS LTC L signal at pin CD1 > on the backplane connector to (among other things) pin 9 on a 7414, > and is a 330 ohm resistor. It should be easy enough to find -- > I don't have a layout diagram for the board.] > > Vector Address Assignments > > Line clock is fixed at 100. Serial line assignments are > floating vectors of the form XX0 (receiver) and XX4 (transmitter), > where XX is 00 to 77. For console device, vector should be > 060/064. > > Vector bit V8 V7 V6 V5 V4 V3 > switch S2-8 S2-7 S2-5 S2-3 S2-6 S2-4 > 060/064 Off Off Off On On Off > On=1, Off=0. > > Data Format > > Bits per Character > S4-4 S4-3 Bits > On On 5 > On Off 6 > Off On 7 > Off Off 8 > > Parity > S4-2 S4-6 Parity > Off Off Off > On Off Off > Off On Even > On On Odd > > Stop Bits > S4-5 Stop bits > On 1 > Off 2 (or 1.5 if 5 data bits selected) > > Baud Rate Selection > Rate Receiver Transmitter > S3-2 S3-3 S3-5 S4-10 S3-1 S3-4 > 110 Off Off Off On On On > 150 On Off Off Off On On > 300 Off On On On Off Off > 600 Off On Off On Off On > 1200 Off Off On On On Off > 2400 On On On Off Off Off > 4800 On On Off Off Off On > 9600 On Off On Off On Off > > Current Loop Active/Passive Selection > Transmitter S1-1 S1-2 S1-3 S1-6 S1-7 > Active On On Off Off On > Passive Off Off On On Off > > Receiver S3-6 S3-7 S3-8 S3-9 S3-10 > Active On Off On Off On > Passive Off On Off On Off > > Reader Enable S1-4 S1-5 S1-8 S1-9 S1-10 > Active On Off On Off On > Passive Off On Off On Off > > [There is a spade lug on the board, near the front > edge, which can be connected to one of the spade lugs > on the M9301 bootstrap module, so that pressing BREAK > on your terminal keyboard will cause the machine to bomb > into the bootstrap module's console emulator.] > > So there you go. I've used one of these boards on my 11/40 > for several years now, without much bother. I have an M9301 > for bootstrap, and am good at avoiding BREAK when typing! > > The only thing that occurs to me about the problems > you've been having is: is there another device (e.g. > bootstrap board) in your system that includes an > LTC circuit? See the note about R63 above. > > You can reset the 11/34 CPU by placing CONT/HALT > in HALT position, then operating BOOT/INIT. > > It is indeed possible to disable the on-board SLU on a KD11-B (11/05 CPU). > I assume (please correct me if I'm wrong) that an 11/10 is similar. > > According to my print set, "with W1 *installed* the CPU does not respond to > internal addresses 177560-177566 and another interface device corresponding > to these standard console addresses can be configured with the KD11-B." > > W1 is on the M7261 board (control logic and microprogram board) between E69 > and C51 (about halfway up the board, roughly in line with edge connector > DH1/DH2). > > The DL11-W (M7856) has 5 DIP switch packs, to set address, vector, baud > rate, etc. Unfortunately, the functions aren't handily grouped (except in > the sense one might use if laying out a PCB :-) > > Approximate layout (ASCII art isn't my best point): > > \______/ \______/ \______/ > _____II_____________II___________________________II_____ > | | > | ___ | > | Berg | / |UU,VV > | connector | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | | | | > | S3: 1..10 |__\ | B,A > | | > | | > | | > | S1: 1..10 | > | | > | S5: 1..10 | > | S4: 1..10 | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | S2: 1..8 | > | ___ __ ___ | > | | | | | | | | > |__________| |__________| |__________| |__________| > > The DL11-W has a Line-Time Clock and one SLU, which can be used in EIA > (RS232) mode or 20mA current-loop. > > There are three address modes: > > 1) Both SLU and LTC active. Only possible if SLU address is set > to 77756x. LTC address is 777546. > > 2) Only the SLU is addressable, in the range 774000-777776. > LTC disabled. > > 3) Only the LTC is addressable, the SLU is disabled. > > Standard address settings: > > addr.bit: A10 A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 LTC LTC > switch: S5-3 S5-2 S5-1 S5-4 S5-5 S5-6 S5-8 S5-7 S5-9 S5-10 > Mode 1: off off off ON off off off ON off ON > Mode 2: off off off ON off off off ON ON ON > Mode 3: off off off ON off off ON ON ON ON > > I've shown the mode2 setting for standard console address. It can be > changed, ON=0 and OFF=1 for the appropriate address bits. > > Standard vector settings: > > The LTC vector is fixed at 100. For console use, the SLU vector > should be set to 60, otherwise use the normal vector allocation. > For S2, ON=1 and OFF=0 (opposite way to S5). S2-1, S2-2 do nothing. > > Vector bit: V8 V7 V6 V5 V4 V3 > switch: S2-8 S2-7 S2-5 S2-3 S2-6 S2-4 > for console: off off off ON ON off > > The SLU provides 20mA and EIA signals on different pins of the Berg > connector. Standard BC05C, 7008360, or 7008519 cables can be used (see > below). The 20mA current loop provides RDR ENBL, and can be active or > passive, independantly set for transmitter and receiver: > > Transmitter: S1-1 S1-2 S1-3 S1-6 S1-7 > Active: ON ON off off ON > Passive: off off ON ON off > > Receiver: S3-6 S3-7 S3-8 S3-9 S3-10 > Active: ON off ON off ON > Passive: off ON off ON off > > Reader Enable: S1-4 S1-5 S1-8 S1-9 S1-10 > Active: ON off ON off ON > Passive: off ON off ON off > > Baud rates: _____Transmit_____ ______Receive_____ > S4-10 S3-1 S3-4 S3-2 S3-3 S3-5 > 110 ON ON ON off off off > 150 off ON ON ON off off > 300 ON off off off ON ON > 600 ON off ON off ON off > 1200 ON ON off off off ON > 2400 off off off ON ON ON > 4800 off off ON ON ON off > 9600 off ON off ON off ON > > The remaining switch settings are for data format: > > (No)Parity: S4-6 When on, enable parity. > Odd/Even: S4-2 When on, and S4-6 is on, use ODD parity > When off, and S4-6 is on, use EVEN parity > If S4-6 is off, this switch has no effect > STOP bits: S4-5 ON = 1 stop bit > OFF = 2 stop bits (6,7, or 8-bit data) > OFF = 1.5 stop bits (5-bit data) > Data word length: 5 bits 6 bits 7 bits 8 bits > S4-3 ON off ON off > S4-4 ON ON off off > > Cable pinouts (blank means "no connection"): > Numbers are DB25 pin numbers (for the BC05C) or Mate-N-Lok pin > numbers (for 7008360): > > Berg pin Signal BC05C 7008360 > > A Ground 1 Prot.Ground (blue/wht) - ground > B Ground 7 Signal Ground (brwn/wht) > C 25 Force Busy (red/org) > D 13 Secondary CTS (org/red) > E TTL serial in - interlock in - interlock in > F EIA serial out 2 Transmit Data (wht/blue) > H 20mA interlock - interlock out > J EIA serial in 3 Receive Data (org/wht) > K +20mA serial in 7 + Rec.Data (green) > L 24 External clk (brwn/red) > M EIA interlock - interlock out > N 15 serial clk xmit (grey/grn) > P 19 Secondary RTS (lbue/blk) > R 17 serial clk recv (grey) > S -20mA serial in 3 - Rec.Data (red) > T 5 Clear To Send (grn/wht) > U > V EIA RTS 4 Request To Send (wht/org) > W 10 -ve power (wht/grey) > X 22 Ring (blk/org) > Y 9 +ve power (grey/wht) > Z 6 Data Set Ready (wht/grn) > AA +20mA serial out 5 + Trans.Data (white) > BB 8 Data Carrier Detect (wht/brwn) > CC > DD EIA DTR 20 Data Terminal Ready (blk/blu) > EE -20mA RDR Run 3 - Reader Run (black) > FF 11 202 Secondary TD (blu/red) > HH > JJ 12 202 Secondary RD (red/blu) > KK -20mA serial out 2 - Trans.Data (black) > LL 14 EIA Secondary TD (grey/red) > MM 21 Signal Quality (org/blk) > NN 16 EIA Secondary RD (red/brwn) > PP +20mA RDR Run 6 + Reader Run (black) > RR 23 Signal Rate (grn/blk) > SS > TT +5V DC > UU ground > VV ground -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/151a1563/vcard.vcf From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Oct 26 19:09:47 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: See if this sounds wierd... In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 26, 97 04:52:53 pm Message-ID: <9710270109.AA05686@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 274 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971026/bc7e4578/attachment.ksh From jwagg at fs.cei.net Sun Oct 26 20:12:48 1997 From: jwagg at fs.cei.net (Joe Wagg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: System 36 Message-ID: <3453F8A0.481@fs.cei.net> I recently picked up a 36 that appears to be in working condition. The only problem is no operating system. Anyone know where I can get the OS disks? Thanks in advance. Joe Wagg jwagg@fs.cei.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Oct 26 11:46:31 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Two Items Needed Message-ID: <19971027024448.AAA14637@hotze> Okay, thanks. But if there are any other old systems that someone would "give" to me? (Don't worry, I'll pay you for the costs of the computer as well as shipping.), like anything, I already have an XT, but that's it. (I'm REALLY interested, but just started collecting. Thanks everyone, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Oct 26 21:51:24 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <19971027035628.AAD16912@hotze> Well, everyone, I don't have much to trade! But I will buy. Keep the lugable safe for me! Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Friday and Saturday Finds Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 5:31 PM As soon as the call comes in I will be driving down to get the items and will sell or trade all the excess items. Keep computing !! At 05:53 AM 10/26/97 +0300, you wrote: >Do you want to sell these things? Because if so, I'm really interested. >Where I live (In Bahrain, in the Mid-East), everyone has gotten rid of >anything 5+ years old. (But not to many people have anything much newer :) >!) I might have a lead on an Apple I, and other of the older models of >Apples, but that's with a friend in the US, but if I do get some, I'll let >everyone know. I REALLY want a NeXT cube, and a Sun, if you find enough. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > photze@batelco.com.bh > >---------- >From: John R. Keys Jr. >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds >Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 4:12 AM > >Well the Hamfest is over and I got a few items but missed alot more, too >big >for one person to be get to the tables fast enough. Got some leads on Next >cubes and Sun items for little or no cost, will be talking with them more >next week. If they have enough I will post the information. About a two >hour >drive from me. On to the list >On Friday I found a Zenith luggable ZFA121-52 not tested yet $5 this baby >is >big with the flip up floppy drives on the top, Apple mouse IIe platinum >free, digital tape unit TLZ04-DA $5, 2 Mac Plus M0110A keybroads, a couple >of laser printers and several USR password modems for $10. Today at the >Hamfest I got digital GIGI model VK100-AA with manuals for free, HP model >433SX station $10 no power supply uses the external power brick like the >old >plotters will have get one from storage and test this unit, Commodore >CBM4040 dual drive .80, a Sharp Wizard 64KB for $20 needs new batteries >can't test it yet, a old 256k/64k RAMCHECK tester for $10 this unit is by >Innoventions of Houston need to write and see if the have doc's on this old >unit, and last a few cables and other odds & ends for $1 each. The day was >not as good as hoped as there were several really good bargins that got >away >by seconds. Well hope everyone else also had a good week and Keep >Computing. >John > > From pcoad at wco.com Mon Oct 27 03:32:02 1997 From: pcoad at wco.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: VCF In-Reply-To: <14C165C45BFB@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: This has to be very short. I am planning a longer message for the near future. I attended the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend. I had one hell of a good time. I enjoyed talking with just about everyone. I didn't get the chance to talk to most as much as I would have liked. I heard some really good stories, and met in person several people from this list. There were a bunch of really neat machines which I got too see up close for the first time. I even got to see (and touch!) the prototype of the Sol-20. I want to thank Sam and everyone who helped out for making the VCF a reality. I will attend and participate (hopefully more) next year without hesitation. It was Nerdvana. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html From manney at nwohio.com Mon Oct 27 08:36:14 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:20 2005 Subject: Two Items Needed Message-ID: <199710271509.HAA22202@mx5.u.washington.edu> Suggestions (since it's _expensive_ to ship even XT's) - Talk to a computer store - Talk to a private school - Watch county sales (I picked up 30 or so for 50 cents US each) - Advertise (my paper lets you do so free) - Talk to your local club - And, of course, hamfests - Goodwill etc (but they only seem to get C64's and TI99's in my area) I don't pay more than $10 for an XT system. Finding software cheap is my biggest headache, especially old diagnostic stuff). After I bought (40) DOS 3.31 for $1 each, I'm in the pink there. >Hello everyone. I'm new here, but am very interested in collecting >computers. I want two things: >1. Information etc. on the Androbot. (Remember, the little robot that >premiered about the same time as the XT?) >2. Any extra classics that you have that you could sell to me. In my >area, it took me 4 months just to track down 1 XT in relatively bad >condition. From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Oct 27 08:02:52 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: <199710260626.BAA29555@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <26BE55D57378@ifrsys.com> William Donzelli wrote: > > Punched card technology was well established well before what we think of > as the first electronic computers - ENIAC, the ABC machine, etc.. IBM, of > course, was the biggie in the field (and oddly enough, entered the > computing business a bit late), starting sometime in the 1930s. > I read somewhere that IBM patented the first multiple-word cardpuncher in 1919. It could punch nine columns at a time. The photograph showed that the thing used levers that reminded me of the credit-card embossers used at gas stations. Jeff From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Oct 27 08:53:09 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Possible lead on software.... Message-ID: <19971027153128.AAB2560@hotze> Hello everyone. I have recenlty meet several people who have just gotten rid of their XTs. (I would have gotten them, but I wasn't in time.) But, however, they have a rather large list of software for the "IBM compatibles" with the 8088 and 80286 (possibly) processors. I'm currently waiting for the complete list, but if you want some software for yours, this may be your chance. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Oct 27 09:01:29 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <19971027153128.AAC2560@hotze> Can you do me a favor, and when you get the info on the NeXT cubes (I'd kill for one of those.), and a Sun , which I don't know to much about, but I really want to learn. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze PS- Info on Bulliten Board Services (BBS). Remember, before the WWW caught on, that's what we'd log onto and post messages, etc. I want to know about some old BBS software for DOS and earlier versions of Windows, and server software. (Get what I'm trying to say here?) ---------- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Friday and Saturday Finds Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 5:31 PM As soon as the call comes in I will be driving down to get the items and will sell or trade all the excess items. Keep computing !! At 05:53 AM 10/26/97 +0300, you wrote: >Do you want to sell these things? Because if so, I'm really interested. >Where I live (In Bahrain, in the Mid-East), everyone has gotten rid of >anything 5+ years old. (But not to many people have anything much newer :) >!) I might have a lead on an Apple I, and other of the older models of >Apples, but that's with a friend in the US, but if I do get some, I'll let >everyone know. I REALLY want a NeXT cube, and a Sun, if you find enough. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > photze@batelco.com.bh > >---------- >From: John R. Keys Jr. >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds >Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 4:12 AM > >Well the Hamfest is over and I got a few items but missed alot more, too >big >for one person to be get to the tables fast enough. Got some leads on Next >cubes and Sun items for little or no cost, will be talking with them more >next week. If they have enough I will post the information. About a two >hour >drive from me. On to the list >On Friday I found a Zenith luggable ZFA121-52 not tested yet $5 this baby >is >big with the flip up floppy drives on the top, Apple mouse IIe platinum >free, digital tape unit TLZ04-DA $5, 2 Mac Plus M0110A keybroads, a couple >of laser printers and several USR password modems for $10. Today at the >Hamfest I got digital GIGI model VK100-AA with manuals for free, HP model >433SX station $10 no power supply uses the external power brick like the >old >plotters will have get one from storage and test this unit, Commodore >CBM4040 dual drive .80, a Sharp Wizard 64KB for $20 needs new batteries >can't test it yet, a old 256k/64k RAMCHECK tester for $10 this unit is by >Innoventions of Houston need to write and see if the have doc's on this old >unit, and last a few cables and other odds & ends for $1 each. The day was >not as good as hoped as there were several really good bargins that got >away >by seconds. Well hope everyone else also had a good week and Keep >Computing. >John > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Oct 27 10:22:17 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 1997, Paul E Coad wrote: > I attended the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend. I had one hell > of a good time. I enjoyed talking with just about everyone. I didn't > get the chance to talk to most as much as I would have liked. I heard > some really good stories, and met in person several people from this > list. There were a bunch of really neat machines which I got too see > up close for the first time. I even got to see (and touch!) the > prototype of the Sol-20. > > I want to thank Sam and everyone who helped out for making the VCF a > reality. I will attend and participate (hopefully more) next year > without hesitation. It was Nerdvana. I'll second everything Paul said! (my being one of the speakers not withstanding) This event deserves the support of everyone who considers themselves a collector or a person with an interest in the history of computers. How often these days do you get a chance to see an Osborne 3? (*not* a typo!) Or a functional Cromemco System 1 running Unix? And ther there were the speakers! And the Swap Meet/Flea Market. Stuff was seen there that people have been seeking around here for some time! Its all gone now!! (I *need* a bigger suitcase!) If you were not there, you missed out on quite the party! I took quite a few pictures around the exhibits that I will be adding to my web pages over the next few days. (hopefully I'll be able to start tonight) Check it out and start thinking toward next year! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Oct 27 10:42:09 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Great Picture Found Message-ID: <19971027164656.AAA7954@hotze> Hello everyone. I know that I keep on talking about the XTs, and they're not even that interesting, it's just that until you guies give me info/leads on another system, I have nothing better to talk about. I've found a great picture of an IBM XT. (Not mine.). It looks really good. White background, it looks like it were taken in 1982. Un-readable monocrome-green writing is on the monitor. Probably from an ad, or something. (Did I mention that this picture can be shared, as it's in the .bmp format?) Because I didn't want to bother all of you with the downloading time of a 6K bitmap, I'll take "requests" if you want the picture. Just give me your e-mail adress and let me know. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Mon Oct 27 20:01:24 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: LASER 310 ?? What is this? Help... Message-ID: Greetings: In the past, I've inquired quite a bit here about the old Digital Technologies Laser 50 computer that had the single LCD display, and BASIC in memory. I am still looking for that, so if anyone has one, *please* let me know. Ok, here's the main question: I recently picked up at a thrift store for $5, a Laser Color Computer 310. It is similar to a CoCo, in that it is just the keyboard, a little smaller than a CoCo, no built in display like most of V-tech's simplier computers, and has ports for tape, monitor, peripheral, and tv. It must run BASIC as it has basic keywords above the normal letters. Oh, it has a 1983 copyright on it and is from Video Technologies Ltd. If anyone has some info on this would you please send me some feed-back? Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 27 23:50:10 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: LASER 310 ?? What is this? Help... References: Message-ID: <34557D12.146E@worldnet.att.net> Are you still looking for some info on the Laser 50 (by the way, mine says it's a Vtech) I have one in the original box but no manual:( Let me know what you need. Cord Coslor wrote: > > Greetings: > > In the past, I've inquired quite a bit here about the old Digital > Technologies Laser 50 computer that had the single LCD display, and BASIC > in memory. I am still looking for that, so if anyone has one, *please* let > me know. > > Ok, here's the main question: I recently picked up at a thrift store for > $5, a Laser Color Computer 310. It is similar to a CoCo, in that it is > just the keyboard, a little smaller than a CoCo, no built in display like > most of V-tech's simplier computers, and has ports for tape, monitor, > peripheral, and tv. It must run BASIC as it has basic keywords above the > normal letters. > > Oh, it has a 1983 copyright on it and is from Video Technologies Ltd. > > If anyone has some info on this would you please send me some feed-back? > > Thanks, > > CORD > > //*=====================================================================++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > || Autograph collector || > ++=====================================================================*// -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Oct 27 23:14:40 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: <345574C0.2211@goldrush.com> I just wanted to pass along a note about the recent Vintage Computer Festival that Sam Ishmaiel and friends put on this previous weekend. (Oct. 25th & 26th, 1997) IT WAS GREAT! Besides being a wonderful chance to get a personal look at computers you may have only read about or seen in magazines or never knew even existed, there ware many interesting people with their own stories behind the machines on display. All one had to do was hang around a particualr section and it wasn't long before you were in a conversation about that computer or product line. I became aquainted with many facinating individuals from those who have been there since the early days to those who are new to classic computing. A few words of levity between computer camps (you know, Apple, Atari, Commodore, MITS, IMSAI, etc.) but alot of respect for everyone. Some of the people who attended (including myself) had the opportunity to get table space to sell 'extras' in their collection not just only to make a couple bucks and get some more precious storage space (to buy goodies from other tables), but also be safe in the knowledge that your stuff was going to a good place, other collectors. Unfortunately not everybody did as well, some people selling more contemporary hardware were greeted by many looking for classics to start-out or to add to their collection. At least one person commented about the lack of any stuff for S-100 bus systems and I was surprised at the demand for PETs (6 to 8 people inquired me about them) no 2001/8k models here, but one dealer was able to have a few people walk out smiling with a few 4000 series units. As with the rest of the event, the workshops were informative and on-topic as well, with such topics as Early BBS systems, Software Preservation, to the final talk about Processor Technology and the SOL computer (By the SOL creators Lee Felzenstein and Bob Marsh themselves) which included a display and powering up of the first SOL! The festival was all I hoped for and more. :) Sam, you did great, and please don't hesitate to let us know next year what we can do to help you (advertising, display units, doumentation, software, anything!) One of Sam's comments was that by displaying so much of his collection he had the opportunity to re-organize his storage space when he put it back away, sounds like a good way to get more displayers. Lastly, if you took pictures during the event, let Sam know as he talked about making up a web-page display of VCF 1.0 and didn't have the opportunity to take very many himself. Sorry if I am getting to wordy here, but I hope VCF becomes as great as it promises to be and also an example for others who wish to get a vintage computer festival going in their own region. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From hans_pufal at phoenix.com Tue Oct 28 07:45:08 1997 From: hans_pufal at phoenix.com (hans_pufal@phoenix.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Surplus TI equipment fro sale Message-ID: Just came across this web page listing surplus TI equipment for sale. The computer section lists just a Convex 3800 of 1991 - not quite a classic. What tickles me is the categories, let's set up our own wafer fab..... Hans B Pufal The following was included as an attachement. Please use UUDECODE to retrieve it. The original file name was 'BEYOND.RTF'. From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 28 02:01:12 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971027235906.2f5733fe@mail.crl.com> At 05:44 AM 10/26/97 +0300, you wrote: >I have a similiar problem: Due to the large size of the XT style >motherboards, my desk devoted to classic computers isn't big enough. I can >fit the computer on, the monitor on the computer, and the keyboard on the >floor. When you try to type, it's not fun. (Type a command. Stop. Before Look into the monitor arms that let attach to your desk and support your monitor above the desk/computer. Many of them have a simple wire rack that pulls out in front to hold a keyboard. (Basically, it's just a square U of metal that slides in and out.) There are other advantages to this as well. If you're working on several computers that use the same type of monitor, you don't need to move the monitor to swap CPU's. Also, it lets you use the monitor-over-CPU set up for machines that aren't flat boxes (like a C64, atari 800 or SOL-20.) You can also swing it out of the way if you want to work on the computer. >PS- How do you post an origional message? Do you just send one to9 >classiccmp@u.washington.edu , or somewhere else? Yep. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From kevan at heydon.org Tue Oct 28 04:30:14 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971027235906.2f5733fe@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <199710281030.KAA20750@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Uncle Roger wrote: > > There are other advantages to this as well. If you're working on several > computers that use the same type of monitor, you don't need to move the > monitor to swap CPU's. Also, it lets you use the monitor-over-CPU set up > for machines that aren't flat boxes (like a C64, atari 800 or SOL-20.) You > can also swing it out of the way if you want to work on the computer. > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a large number of home micros? Also does anybody use TV tuner cards you can get for PC's? It seems like these could be very useful as they mean you need just one monitor on your desk. Any recommendations for the best cards? -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Oct 28 05:04:34 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor In-Reply-To: <199710281030.KAA20750@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> from "kevan@heydon.org" at Oct 28, 97 10:30:14 am Message-ID: <199710281104.GAA07190@hiway1.exit109.com> > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a > large number of home micros? My first inclination woulb be to say the old Nec Multisync's, the ones with the 9-pin cable. They're switchable between digital and analog RGB, can handle the range of sync polarities, and can take resolutions up to 800x600 or so. Their biggest drawback is the coarse dot pitch of the old CRT. One of those with appropriate cables, though, should cover anything that used an RGB monitor, short of a Sun or other workstation. <<>> (who grabbed a Multisync II when he had the chance) From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Oct 28 05:21:06 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Osborne floppy solved Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971028062106.00689a84@mail.wincom.net> Bruce Cook, a local computer wiz, solved my Osborne A to B problem. There is a blue terminator near the right rear of the pc board which must be on the last drive on the ribbon cable. In the case of the Osborne One this is drive A. I tried to talk Bruce into joining our merry crew, but being a Canadian Snowbird he is too busy driving to Florida. Cheers Charlie Fox From kevan at heydon.org Tue Oct 28 05:24:55 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor In-Reply-To: <199710281104.GAA07190@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <199710281124.LAA21588@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> > One of those with appropriate cables, though, should cover anything that > used an RGB monitor, short of a Sun or other workstation. Hmm, but what about UHF and composite signals? Also can these multisyncs do very low resolutions like 256x192? -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Oct 28 09:00:08 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US Message-ID: <19971028151203.AAB14293@hotze> I don't know what would be the best, but if you visit http://www.zdnet.com and search for TV Tuner cards, I'm sure that someone at Ziff-Davis has done a survey. Everything that I've used that they recommended I've been extremely happy with. They also have a market place where you can buy things from vendors. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: kevan@heydon.org To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Space problems in the UK and US Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 1:30 PM Uncle Roger wrote: > > There are other advantages to this as well. If you're working on several > computers that use the same type of monitor, you don't need to move the > monitor to swap CPU's. Also, it lets you use the monitor-over-CPU set up > for machines that aren't flat boxes (like a C64, atari 800 or SOL-20.) You > can also swing it out of the way if you want to work on the computer. > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a large number of home micros? Also does anybody use TV tuner cards you can get for PC's? It seems like these could be very useful as they mean you need just one monitor on your desk. Any recommendations for the best cards? -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From marvin at rain.org Tue Oct 28 10:30:13 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US References: <199710281030.KAA20750@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <34561315.D61096F1@rain.org> kevan@heydon.org wrote: > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a > large number of home micros? I have found that the NEC Multisync coupled with one of the Commodore color monitors make a great setup. With those two monitors, just about everything is covered. While I haven't checked, the NEC may also be capable of composite video input but I use the Commodore for that since it also has an audio input. From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Oct 28 11:47:01 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor In-Reply-To: <199710281124.LAA21588@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> References: <199710281104.GAA07190@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971028124701.0096d320@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, kevan@heydon.org said: >Hmm, but what about UHF and composite signals? Also can these >multisyncs do very low resolutions like 256x192? Hmmmmmm, sounds like you have a CoCo! Anyway, NEC MultiSyncs AFAIK don't do composite, but you can get older Magnavox monitors that will do NTSC RGB video and composite both. Mind you, this won't help you with a CoCo1/2 unless you add a small circuit to snag the NTSC video before it goes to the RF modulator and boost it to composite levels... Dr. Marty Goodman of CoCo fame may still have the schematics for this circuit and may even have a few circuits left layin' around... you can contact him thru news://bit.listserve.coco.... don't have is e-mail address handy, but he's on Delphi.com. Anyway, HTH and all that jazz! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Oct 28 12:05:46 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor Message-ID: Uhm, I have a couple of original Multisyncs, and I don't believe they can do anything over 640x480.. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: John Ruschmeyer [SMTP:jruschme@hiway1.exit109.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 5:05 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: "Universal" monitor > > > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with > a > > large number of home micros? > > My first inclination woulb be to say the old Nec Multisync's, the ones > with the 9-pin cable. They're switchable between digital and analog > RGB, > can handle the range of sync polarities, and can take resolutions up > to > 800x600 or so. Their biggest drawback is the coarse dot pitch of the > old CRT. > > One of those with appropriate cables, though, should cover anything > that > used an RGB monitor, short of a Sun or other workstation. > > <<>> > (who grabbed a Multisync II when he had the chance) From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Oct 28 12:25:08 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: I just sent out a bunch of these books; and still have a couple left; Final costs including box ($0.92) and shipping ($4 to $5) averaged $11 per book total shipped. Let me know if you are still interested. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Richards [SMTP:alanr@morgan.ucs.mun.ca] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:47 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > At 04:53 PM 15/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > >I picked up a copy of this book, as it seems quite handy. It has > lots > >of info on older, long since discontinued drives. > > > >The local MicroCenter here in Dallas has a giant pile of them for > >something like $5 each; it says list $49.99 so this may be a > bargain. > >If there is any interest, I could pick up a few to send elsewhere. > > > > Hell yes I would be interested, If you could pick one up for me, > I'll pay > shipping + cost. Reply if you can can still get them... Thanks in > advance. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > The Man From D.A.D > ---------------------------------------------------------------- From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Oct 28 12:28:59 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition Message-ID: Whoops. Meant to send that to Alan, instead of the list (this MS Outlook is SOO complicated ;-) But, if anyone else wants one, they still have a small pile of them I can go get for $5 (about $11 by the time its shipped). -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt Pritchard [SMTP:MPritchard@EnsembleStudios.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 12:25 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > I just sent out a bunch of these books; and still have a couple left; > Final costs including box ($0.92) and shipping ($4 to $5) averaged $11 > per book total shipped. Let me know if you are still interested. > > -Matt Pritchard > Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alan Richards [SMTP:alanr@morgan.ucs.mun.ca] > > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 1997 11:47 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: Hard Drive Bible, 8th edition > > > > At 04:53 PM 15/10/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >I picked up a copy of this book, as it seems quite handy. It has > > lots > > >of info on older, long since discontinued drives. > > > > > >The local MicroCenter here in Dallas has a giant pile of them for > > >something like $5 each; it says list $49.99 so this may be a > > bargain. > > >If there is any interest, I could pick up a few to send elsewhere. > > > > > > > Hell yes I would be interested, If you could pick one up for me, > > I'll pay > > shipping + cost. Reply if you can can still get them... Thanks in > > advance. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > > The Man From D.A.D > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Oct 28 12:40:10 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <199710281030.KAA20750@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 kevan@heydon.org wrote: > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a > large number of home micros? This seems to be becoming a FAQ here... Some machines, like workstations _need_ their original monitor. Something like a PERQ 3 has part of the keyboard/mouse interface in the monitor stand. And the scan rates of all the PERQs are fairly non-standard. Another case is when the original monitor is sufficiently interesting to be worth preserving in its own right. One of my machines came with an ex TV-company Barco and its service manual. That monitor is built like a tank, gives a very good picture, and is a joy to work on. But a lot of home micros seem to need one of 4 types of monitor, all of them essentially hackable into each other, thankfully. In most cases, the original monitor, if it existed at all (a lot of them plugged into a normal TV set), is an uninteresting thing. The 4 classes are : 1) RGB at TTL levels (like CGA, but without the I line) 2) RGB at analogue levels 3) Composite colour video 4) UHF modulated colour video (TV RF signal). Now, you can feed TTL level signals into an analogue monitor. I do it all the time. If you are a purist you put resistive attenuators in the line to reduce the 5V signals to 1V. But very few monitors seem to object Some monitors will take either RGB or composite PAL inputs. Philips make/made one. One of the Acorn monitors is that chassis without the PAL decoder - one day I'm going to add the extra components, tweak it up, and essentially upgrade it to the better model. It shouldn't take too long. Velleman do a very nice (although expensive) PAL - RGB encoder/decoder. It's called the K4600, and is available as a kit from Maplin. It works well, it's quite small, and it's easy to put together. This is (IMHO) one of the best ways to drive an RGB monitor from a composite output. UHF outputs are a pain. I generally ignore them and tap the signal off before the modulator. If you insist on not modifying your computers, then you can use the tuner/IF strip from an old VCR to demodulate it. There have been kits to do just that, but I've not seen one on sale for a few years - Maplin _used_ to do one, but it's been discontinued, alas. What about using a small (12", 14"), good quality portable TV? That would give you the UHF input, composite PAL and RGB on the SCART socket, and some of the better portables (i.e. _not_ a no-name piece of trash) actually have decent CRTs in them and will display 80 columns quite clearly from the RGB inputs. > > Also does anybody use TV tuner cards you can get for PC's? It seems > like these could be very useful as they mean you need just one monitor > on your desk. Any recommendations for the best cards? Well, I doubt my PC would take one (all the slots are already full), my video card certainly couldn't display the output, and most (all?) of these cards don't come with drivers for my OS of choice. So I've not tried one. I can't see the point - a PC is considerably more hassle to move onto my workbench than a monitor... > > -- > Kevan -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Oct 28 12:42:25 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor In-Reply-To: <199710281124.LAA21588@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 1997 kevan@heydon.org wrote: > > > One of those with appropriate cables, though, should cover anything that > > used an RGB monitor, short of a Sun or other workstation. > > Hmm, but what about UHF and composite signals? Also can these > multisyncs do very low resolutions like 256x192? It's not the resolution that matters, it's the scan rates. I'm quite sure I could figure out a way to drive an SVGA monitor at 4*2 resolution if I had to :-) I believe the Multisync II can sync to 15kHz horizontal rates (which is the difficult one to fiddle). See my previous message for info on composite->RGB decoding. > > -- > Kevan -tony From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Oct 28 13:35:23 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: "Universal" monitor In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971028124701.0096d320@mail.northernway.net> References: <199710281124.LAA21588@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <46B540B4A9A@ifrsys.com> > >Hmm, but what about UHF and composite signals? Also can these > >multisyncs do very low resolutions like 256x192? > > Hmmmmmm, sounds like you have a CoCo! Anyway, NEC MultiSyncs AFAIK don't do > composite, but you can get older Magnavox monitors that will do NTSC RGB > video and composite both. Mind you, this won't help you with a CoCo1/2 --- ---- ALso, Mitsubishi AUM-1371's (also sold under the Thompson label) will accept composite too. I need to get mine repaired so I can use it with my PLaystation . . . . Jeff From bjorn at ktb.net Tue Oct 28 16:45:15 1997 From: bjorn at ktb.net (Bjorn T. Eng) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Head Start Explorer In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971024095236.48bfa66c@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: Wow! A blast from my personal past... One of my best friends is the guy who designed the Head Start Explorer! (a.k.a. Dead Stop Exploder...) I forwarded the message to him just for kicks :) Bjorn Eng On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 03:37 PM 10/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Is anyone interested in a Head Start Explorer (seems to be an XT with > >built-in CGA). Has a dead floppy, no hard drive. Boots up fine on ROM. > > Is it a portable type or an all-in-one (ala PS/1)? If the former, I'm > interested. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Oct 28 16:44:44 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna break into a VAX 6000? Message-ID: Apparently, someone running a VAX 6000 wants it broken into. If you find the file challenge.txt and mail it so security, you win something. I checked and it IS legit. You can mail system@mail.all-net.net for more info. The challenge is open to everyone. I'll give it a shot... The machine's name is carl.all-net.net From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 28 20:52:48 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: System for Sale Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971029025248.00681b94@pop3.concentric.net> I was contacted by someone tonight that has a complete C64 system with computer, 2-1541 drives, modem, software, 1902 monitor in box working system. If anyone wants to make him a offer let me know and I will give you his phone number. He may have some manuals also. From wpe at interserv.com Tue Oct 28 21:28:36 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna break into a VAX 6000? References: Message-ID: <3456AD63.D7EBEA5C@interserv.com> You sure about this? Me doing jail time'd really piss my wife off, not to mention my boss...... Will_who's_sworn_duty_used_to_be to_protect_these_very_systems..... Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Apparently, someone running a VAX 6000 wants it broken into. If you > find > the file challenge.txt and mail it so security, you win something. I > checked and it IS legit. You can mail system@mail.all-net.net for > more > info. > The challenge is open to everyone. I'll give it a shot... > The machine's name is carl.all-net.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971028/360434fa/attachment.html From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 28 22:01:11 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: VCF Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971028195904.5d47a980@mail.crl.com> At 01:32 AM 10/27/97 -0800, you wrote: >I attended the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend. I had one hell >of a good time. I enjoyed talking with just about everyone. I didn't I concur wholeheartedly. I didn't get to spend as much time there as I would have liked, and certainly wasn't as prepared as I could have been, and didn't help out anywhere near as much as I should have, but I did have a blast. I picked up a few things (a couple of 8-bit atari Carts, a TRS-80 Model 102 with some sort of really weird modification, a Mac II for Rachel's classroom), didn't sell anything, but did manage to find homes for what I didn't want to bring home. (Tip: If you tell Marvin you're going to throw something in the dumpster, he'll take it even if it means making his wife hold it on her lap on the way home. 8^) (P.S., Hope you guys made it home okay!) I also talked to a couple of people who aren't on the list but want to be, so I'm going to send them the signup address (I shoulda written it down before going.) >I want to thank Sam and everyone who helped out for making the VCF a >reality. I will attend and participate (hopefully more) next year >without hesitation. It was Nerdvana. Likewise! Next year I think I'll fill two tables both days instead of one table one day. It was neat to be able to display some of my collection in public. (Next year I'll get it together and get some of my stuff into the main exhibits.) Sam, you did one hell of a bang-up job. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Oct 28 22:01:20 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Friday and Saturday Finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971028195913.5d47fac0@mail.crl.com> At 06:01 PM 10/27/97 +0300, you wrote: >PS- Info on Bulliten Board Services (BBS). Remember, before the WWW caught >on, that's what we'd log onto and post messages, etc. I want to know about >some old BBS software for DOS and earlier versions of Windows, and server >software. (Get what I'm trying to say here?) Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dastar at wco.com Tue Oct 28 22:19:05 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: apple lisa (fwd) Message-ID: I doubt it, but can someone help this poor fool out? Send all replies to sve@ecom.be (the requestor). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail To: Steven Verhoest Cc: dastar@wco.com Subject: Re: apple lisa On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Steven Verhoest wrote: > I'm looking for an apple lisa as a wedding present for my boss. He > marries on friday. > > Expenses are no problem. Hi Steven. Good luck. Lisa's do not just show up in flea markets and thrift stores. You usually have to do a lot of searching for a long time and end up getting really lucky. However, I will forward your message along to a network of collectors I know. The chances of success are slim (most people like to hang onto their Lisa's) but you never know. The thought of many dollar signs may entice someone. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@wco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Oct 28 22:42:43 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <199710281030.KAA20750@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> References: <1.5.4.16.19971027235906.2f5733fe@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: >Also does anybody use TV tuner cards you can get for PC's? It seems >like these could be very useful as they mean you need just one monitor >on your desk. Any recommendations for the best cards? I don't know about the cards for the PC's, but my PowerMac 8500 makes a fairly nice monitor for my one Amiga 2000 (so far the only thing I've tried it with). It has TV, Video, and S-Video options, which are then split into NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. I've got a old dead VCR hooked up to it so I can get VHF & UHF. It should handle just about anything I need. Only thing I haven't figured out is how to do RGB. The PowerMac itself is one of four systems hooked up to my 20" Sony Multisync monitor. I've got a 4-way switch that lets me use the PowerMac, a Amiga 3000, a homemade Pentium, and an Atari TT030. The only down side is that I've got four different Mice, and keyboards. Every now and then I get which goes to which mixed up. Also sort of tied in is my old 486 Linux box which can display on the monitor via a telnet session, or X-Windows. With the exception of the A2000 and the Atari, they are all tied together via ethernet (anyone know a good ethernet solution for an Atari TT). A multi-processor system at it's worst :^) Let me think, pull out the A2000, add a C-64. Hmmm, now all I've got to do is figure out how to tie a Apple ][gs into this mess! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 29 00:41:08 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: VCF References: <1.5.4.16.19971028195904.5d47a980@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <3456DA84.76FB137A@rain.org> Uncle Roger wrote: > I picked up a few things (a couple of 8-bit atari Carts, a TRS-80 Model > 102 > with some sort of really weird modification, a Mac II for Rachel's > classroom), didn't sell anything, but did manage to find homes for what I > didn't want to bring home. (Tip: If you tell Marvin you're going to throw > > something in the dumpster, he'll take it even if it means making his wife > hold it on her lap on the way home. 8^) (P.S., Hope you guys made it > home > okay!) Second Tip: Don't leave the premises until you are SURE the item in question went where you thought :). It was just a bit too tight and Frank agreed to see that it got a home (he didn't specify exactly where though :) ! ) And yes, we made it home fine with no problems. I have to agree with all the comments that the VCF was a really fun event. While the attendance was lower than expected, the opportunity to meet and talk with other serious collectors was WELL worth the time and effort of attending! Being able to put names together with faces was certainly a bonus. It was interesting to note that everyone there got along extremely well, and it seemed like everyone had known everyone else for years (even if they just met :)! ) Bonus Numbers: According to Bob Marsh, the number of Sol-20 computers produced was 10,000 with approximately the first 5000 being kits, and the remainder being shipped assembled. According to Roger Billings, there were around 5000 of the Lobo Drives Max-80 computers produced and sold. Many thanks to everyone who helped put this event together and especially to Sam for having the vision to make it happen! From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 29 01:24:36 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971028232224.34b776e0@ricochet.net> At 10:30 AM 10/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a >large number of home micros? For many of the 8-bit micros that use a Composite(?) input (Commie, Atari, I think Coco's, etc.) the Commodore 1702 (And I think 1802?) monitors were fantastic. They also had the advantage of having standard video/audio RCA inputs on the front, so they can double as a Telly. All you need to do is hook it up to a VCR or maybe even just a cable box. I did this for years, and even once when my dad was in the hospital, brought it in wiht a VCR so he could watch movies. Nice and compact. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Oct 29 09:38:20 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971029073820.00e24be0@mail.wizards.net> Uncle Roger put forth with this bit of shtuff... >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:01:20 -0600 (CST) >From: Uncle Roger >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Re: Friday and Saturday Finds >Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971028195913.5d47fac0@mail.crl.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:01 PM 10/27/97 +0300, you wrote: >PS- Info on Bulliten Board Services (BBS). Remember, before the WWW caught >on, that's what we'd log onto and post messages, etc. I want to know about >some old BBS software for DOS and earlier versions of Windows, and server >software. (Get what I'm trying to say here?) >Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the >Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in their user base since the Internet got rolling. I've been running a Fido BBS since 1989, and I've got no intention of stopping anytime soon. I have a wide assortment of BBS software oriented towards DOS-based systems. My pacakge of choice is RemoteAccess 2.01. If there's someone on the list who needs the software, just say so and I can file-attach the pieces to them in an E-mail message. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Oct 29 09:59:41 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! Message-ID: <19971029160458.AAA24478@hotze> Thanks, I'll take it. (photze@batelco.com.bh), and I have one more thing: I need to know about server-type software, as well as client. (I live in Bahrain, where there are only 6 digit numbers, and I don't know of any BBSs. That's why I want to start one.) Since writing, I've found a company called Mustang withe some good windows software, 32 bit OS, etc., but I want DOS. (Whoever said DOS is dead is probably dead themselves.) Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Bruce Lane To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Fido is far from dead! Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 6:38 PM Uncle Roger put forth with this bit of shtuff... >Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 22:01:20 -0600 (CST) >From: Uncle Roger >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Re: Friday and Saturday Finds >Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971028195913.5d47fac0@mail.crl.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:01 PM 10/27/97 +0300, you wrote: >PS- Info on Bulliten Board Services (BBS). Remember, before the WWW caught >on, that's what we'd log onto and post messages, etc. I want to know about >some old BBS software for DOS and earlier versions of Windows, and server >software. (Get what I'm trying to say here?) >Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the >Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in their user base since the Internet got rolling. I've been running a Fido BBS since 1989, and I've got no intention of stopping anytime soon. I have a wide assortment of BBS software oriented towards DOS-based systems. My pacakge of choice is RemoteAccess 2.01. If there's someone on the list who needs the software, just say so and I can file-attach the pieces to them in an E-mail message. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Oct 29 10:38:39 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal???? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971029113839.00a56820@mail.northernway.net> http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?item_id=201433978 Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. Wonder why no-one's bid on it so far..... Have fun, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 29 11:01:31 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal???? Message-ID: Thanks for the Laugh of the day... -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Merchberger [SMTP:zmerch@northernway.net] > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 10:39 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Uh, is this a deal???? > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?item_id=201433978 > > Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... > someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: > $17,000.00. > > Wonder why no-one's bid on it so far..... > > Have fun, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional > Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers > zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From engine at chac.org Wed Oct 29 11:26:01 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971029092500.00f41400@pop.batnet.com> At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last one I SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern California (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) for $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, $17K is (mildly) a deal. AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think of the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last year or so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 29 11:39:31 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970926231151.00f16560@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Sep 26, 97 11:13:05 pm Message-ID: <9710291739.AA32682@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971029/73cd1b80/attachment.ksh From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Wed Oct 29 11:41:26 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971029092500.00f41400@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: What struck me about this whole thing (i.e. the rarity of the Apple I, etc. (read below)) is that recently on this list I remember reading about some guy that found one of the original Apple I's in his basement and was requesting information on it, preservation techniques, how he should repair it, etc., etc. Maybe we should see if he is still on this list and see if we wants to sell it to you or I for just a bit less than the $17,000 asking price on www.haggle.com and other places. Sounds good to me. Also, anyone has a v-tech Laser 50 for me yet, or know of any information on V-tech's "Laser 310 Color Computer"??? The latter one I recently picked up and never even heard about before. The Laser 50-- I am trying to find one as I had one as a kid. Just a couple of neat, little, simple computers. Let me know, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Kip Crosby wrote: > At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... > >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. > > Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did > authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last one I > SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern California > (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) for > $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, $17K > is (mildly) a deal. > > AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think of > the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last year or > so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > > > From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Oct 29 11:48:21 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Message-ID: <199710291748.AA18468@maddog.swec.com> On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:26:01 -0800, the esteemed Mr. Crosby of CHAC spake thusly unto us: > Yes, $17K is (mildly) a deal [for an Apple 1]. > > AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left [...] The entire production run of the LINC-8 totalled 142, of which only a tiny fraction survive to this day. Fewer still are operational. What do you suppose they're worth? No, I'm not trying to sell one. Not on my life. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 29 11:56:27 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971029092500.00f41400@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Oct 29, 97 09:26:01 am Message-ID: <9710291756.AA25635@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1144 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971029/30e68ebe/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Oct 29 11:30:13 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Message-ID: <19971029180353.AAA2418@hotze> Oh really? I've got a friend who is a former Apple employee who gave me one for a LOT less than that: but that was some years back, probably when they were just "old", but still, I've seen them go for about $50 on local classifieds. Sorry this is getting so confusing, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Kip Crosby To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 8:26 PM At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last one I SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern California (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) for $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, $17K is (mildly) a deal. AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think of the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last year or so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From bjorn at ktb.net Wed Oct 29 12:06:26 1997 From: bjorn at ktb.net (Bjorn T. Eng) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Cord, I believe that would be me :) I didn't _find_ it in my basement though... It was given to me way back in 79 or 81 by my boss at the time, I've just had it stored away for years. I'll be taking it out of mothballs when my current job deadline crunch lets up a bit. Bjorn Eng On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > What struck me about this whole thing (i.e. the rarity of the Apple I, > etc. (read below)) is that recently on this list I remember reading about > some guy that found one of the original Apple I's in his basement and was > requesting information on it, preservation techniques, how he should > repair it, etc., etc. Maybe we should see if he is still on this list and > see if we wants to sell it to you or I for just a bit less than the > $17,000 asking price on www.haggle.com and other places. Sounds good to > me. > > Also, anyone has a v-tech Laser 50 for me yet, or know of any information > on V-tech's "Laser 310 Color Computer"??? The latter one I recently picked > up and never even heard about before. The Laser 50-- I am trying to find > one as I had one as a kid. Just a couple of neat, little, simple > computers. > > Let me know, > > CORD COSLOR > > //*=====================================================================++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > || Autograph collector || > ++=====================================================================*// > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Kip Crosby wrote: > > > At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... > > >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. > > > > Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did > > authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last one I > > SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern California > > (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) for > > $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, $17K > > is (mildly) a deal. > > > > AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think of > > the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last year or > > so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. > > > > __________________________________________ > > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > > Computer History Association of California > > > > > > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Oct 29 12:28:00 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: An Idea That Probably Won't Work... Message-ID: <19971029183303.AAA4296@hotze> Hello everyone. I've been interested in clasics for quite some time, but I just had an idea that will make collecting easier for all of us. It's what I call a "Componet Showcase", where, instead of showing a system, you simply show... say, an 8-bit ISA card, or a old 16 K ram chip. What I mean is a system that's made of a custom board, if possible compatible with as many systems as possible. (I know that Apple figuresd out how to get x86 chips working with their systems.), and also a system, that, in it's own right, may become a classic of it's own. (In about 15 years: They're great systems, but they only made a few dozen, for a computer collecting club) I don't have enough knowledge for something like this, but if any of you could help me, I'm sure that together we can get something done. Here's another possibility for this system: Catalog. So what we'd do is equip it with a modem (a 2400 baud or so should do), made for the sole purpose of checking group e-mails. There would be a catalog that would have a list of systems, monitors, componets, etc. With "links" to these componets. It's just a dream, but with the help of everyone, it can be much more. Bye for now, Tim D. Hotze From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Oct 29 12:33:29 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: new addition: atari portfolio Message-ID: <971029130832_-466648001@emout08.mail.aol.com> while searching around town for a mac II video card, i came across this little machine for $10 at a computer parts store! not long ago, some idiot was trying to sell something similar for $100. seems to be psuedo ibm compatible and i got the printer interface in its original box and a quick ref guide for the preloaded apps. mine also came with a 64k mem card with a battery backup. other than a cracked lcd hinge, seems to be pretty neat. if anyone has a source for more info, i'd love to hear about it. another good thing is the the space it takes up is negligable! =D david From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Wed Oct 29 13:02:13 1997 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Message-ID: I can laugh, because as much as I have wanted one, (since they first came out yes) I can safely feel comfortable that I never will. Maybe I get lucky and find an Exidy Sorcerer for less that $5,000. -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Kip Crosby [SMTP:engine@chac.org] > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 11:26 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup > > At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at > Haggle.com.... > >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: > $17,000.00. > > Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did > authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last > one I > SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern > California > (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) > for > $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, > $17K > is (mildly) a deal. > > AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think > of > the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last > year or > so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Oct 29 13:19:54 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:21 2005 Subject: Wanted: RD-51 Message-ID: Yes, as odd as is seems I'm looking for a functional RD-51 or equiv. 10mb MFM hard drive. (ST-412, etc.) I'm trying to reload an operating system onto one of my Micro PDP-11 systems, and it insists that it will only install to an RD-51 drive. So... if anyone has one lying about that needs a purpose, please drop me a note. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 29 13:27:12 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: RD-51 In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Oct 29, 97 11:19:54 am Message-ID: <9710291927.AA01961@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 850 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971029/15ea1573/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 29 14:16:42 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup References: Message-ID: <345799A9.B84CF9BE@rain.org> Cord Coslor wrote: > Also, anyone has a v-tech Laser 50 for me yet, or know of any information > on V-tech's "Laser 310 Color Computer"??? The latter one I recently picked > > up and never even heard about before. The Laser 50-- I am trying to find > one as I had one as a kid. Just a couple of neat, little, simple > computers. I picked up a Laser 50 not too long ago that seems to work okay. However, it also looks like a manual is needed to show how to use it! Any ideas on where to get the manual? From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Oct 29 14:35:09 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: RD-51 In-Reply-To: <9710291927.AA01961@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > I'm trying to reload an operating system onto one of my Micro PDP-11 > > systems, and it insists that it will only install to an RD-51 drive. > > You tell us which operating system this is, but most revisions of > RT-11, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E aren't that picky about MSCP devices. It's RSTS, (the version # escapes me at the moment) and its being exceptionally picky. > Just about any MFM hard drive can be pressed into service as a RD51 > (as it is *almost* the lowest common denominator in MFM drives, after > you forget about the original ST506). If you've got a larger physical disk, > you just tell the RQDX formatter that you're using to format it as > a smaller logical disk. > > Which RQDX formatter are you using, BTW? My VS2000. No copies of the tape based formatter have fallen my way to date... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Oct 29 14:44:14 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: RD-51 In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Oct 29, 97 12:35:09 pm Message-ID: <9710292044.AA01556@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971029/6926e7cc/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 29 16:56:26 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971029145419.601f58d4@ricochet.net> At 07:38 AM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the >>Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. > > Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in Whups! I did not mean to imply at all that Fido was dead. Only that I was communicating with people around the world long before most of us heard about the Internet. I think Fido is great and I'm glad to hear it is still going strong. > I have a wide assortment of BBS software oriented towards DOS-based >systems. My pacakge of choice is RemoteAccess 2.01. If there's someone on Is RemoteAccess a Fido compatible BBS or a terminal pgm? Do you know where to get the Fido software? Btw, is Tom(?) Jennings (is that his name? the author of Fido) still around in the Fido world? I met him once -- a true genius, and definitely deserves greater acclaim than he has received. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Oct 29 16:56:30 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Portable History Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971029145422.5df79180@ricochet.net> I got to thinking about VCF 2.0 and decided I might like to do a talk about the history of portable computing. But, knowing my track record in regards to such things, I figure I better start researching now in order to be ready for VCF 3.0 or 4.0! So, I'd like to hear from anyone who has a story to tell about the history of portable computers and such, or has any data on what the first portable, first laptop, first handheld, etc. was etc. Also, any interesting portables you have in your collection or know about, please tell me. Basically, if it has to do with portable computing (or even relates to it in some obscure way) I'd like to hear about it. Please e-mail me directly at . I'll take anything I can get, compile it, and see if I can come up with something. Thanks! P.S., I do collect portable computers (which somehow doesn't explain the Mini's in the basement) so if you have any you want to get rid of... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Oct 29 17:21:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: NCR Computer References: <9710292044.AA01556@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3457C502.692CEB80@rain.org> In case anyone is interested, there is an NCR computer available on ebay. The URL is: http://iguana.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354563. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Wed Oct 29 17:39:09 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bjorn: Thanks for your reply! I wasn't meaning for that message to sound sarcastic at all. When I re-read it, it kind of sounded that way. I apologise if it did. Your story has just really stuck in my mind as being amazing, and a very 1 in a million deal. I posted that message, in all honesty, to find out who that was in hopes of creating some more discussion of that machine. Very few if any of us have an Apple I, so I thought maybe you may be able to elaborate on what you've found in your exploration of the Apple I. I'm in envy, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Bjorn T. Eng wrote: > Cord, > > I believe that would be me :) > > I didn't _find_ it in my basement though... It was given to me way back in > 79 or 81 by my boss at the time, I've just had it stored away for years. > I'll be taking it out of mothballs when my current job deadline crunch > lets up a bit. > > > Bjorn Eng > > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > > > What struck me about this whole thing (i.e. the rarity of the Apple I, > > etc. (read below)) is that recently on this list I remember reading about > > some guy that found one of the original Apple I's in his basement and was > > requesting information on it, preservation techniques, how he should > > repair it, etc., etc. Maybe we should see if he is still on this list and > > see if we wants to sell it to you or I for just a bit less than the > > $17,000 asking price on www.haggle.com and other places. Sounds good to > > me. > > > > Also, anyone has a v-tech Laser 50 for me yet, or know of any information > > on V-tech's "Laser 310 Color Computer"??? The latter one I recently picked > > up and never even heard about before. The Laser 50-- I am trying to find > > one as I had one as a kid. Just a couple of neat, little, simple > > computers. > > > > Let me know, > > > > CORD COSLOR > > > > //*=====================================================================++ > > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > > || Autograph collector || > > ++=====================================================================*// > > > > > > On Wed, 29 Oct 1997, Kip Crosby wrote: > > > > > At 11:38 10/29/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Just found this under the "Antique Computer" Listing at Haggle.com.... > > > >someone's got an Apple 1 for sale... opening bid requested: $17,000.00. > > > > > > Matt can say "laugh of the day," but a couple of years ago I did > > > authentication and provenance on one that sold for $12,000, the last one I > > > SAW sell went for $22,000, and there's one for sale in Southern California > > > (with Apple packaging, full paperwork and a signed letter from Jobs,) for > > > $30,000 -- it hasn't gone yet, but it will, probably to Japan. Yes, $17K > > > is (mildly) a deal. > > > > > > AFAIK there are only about eighty of the little dears left, and think of > > > the number of people who want one. To tell the truth, in the last year or > > > so there's begun to be concern about counterfeiting. > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > > > Computer History Association of California > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nathan.pryor at juno.com Wed Oct 29 17:54:21 1997 From: nathan.pryor at juno.com (nathan.pryor@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Avatex 2400 Message-ID: <199710292354.SAA18275@trfn.clpgh.org> Do you still have the Avatex 2400 modem and how much do you want for it I have one of them but I lost the manual and need dipswitch settings Nathan nathan.pryor@juno.com From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Oct 29 21:09:48 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! Message-ID: <19971030031442.AAB9915@hotze> Okay, I don't know where to get any software; remember, I'm out in the middle of nowhere. If someone could send me something, that would be great. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Uncle Roger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Fido is far from dead! Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 1:56 AM At 07:38 AM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the >>Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. > > Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in Whups! I did not mean to imply at all that Fido was dead. Only that I was communicating with people around the world long before most of us heard about the Internet. I think Fido is great and I'm glad to hear it is still going strong. > I have a wide assortment of BBS software oriented towards DOS-based >systems. My pacakge of choice is RemoteAccess 2.01. If there's someone on Is RemoteAccess a Fido compatible BBS or a terminal pgm? Do you know where to get the Fido software? Btw, is Tom(?) Jennings (is that his name? the author of Fido) still around in the Fido world? I met him once -- a true genius, and definitely deserves greater acclaim than he has received. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 29 23:37:53 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup References: <345799A9.B84CF9BE@rain.org> Message-ID: <34581D31.5A2F@worldnet.att.net> Marvin wrote: > I picked up a Laser 50 not too long ago that seems to work okay. However, > it also looks like a manual is needed to show how to use it! Any ideas on > where to get the manual? If you find one, pleas make copies :) -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 30 00:19:51 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Need manual for test equipment References: <19971029183303.AAA4296@hotze> Message-ID: <34582707.3BC0@worldnet.att.net> Hi, I know this doesn't really belong to this group but hey you need equipment to fix all these oldies. I picked up a Data Precision digital osciloscope "Data 6000" with a "630" two channels 20MHz acquisition system. I also picked up a Tektronix Data Analyser 308A. I'm looking for the service manual (the display jitters). Can anybody give me a lead on these items? Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Oct 30 10:14:00 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming Message-ID: <19971030162034.AAA29722@hotze> Has anything happened since the 25th? I just want to know... because I just started collecting and really want to grab a few systems. (Can people who already have one of the systems that I'm interested in let me have first dibbs?) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Lawrence Walker To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 11:18 AM > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming > Thanks to those who e-mailed me to keep the list going, I too like to see > what others are finding and the price items are going for. This also to > helps hear about computers and other items that I may have never seen or > hear of. But first about the rescue - I have located about one half of a > 20,000 sq ft warehouse FULL of computers, monitors, printers, manuals, sales > promo items, old software, system disk. I'm talking C64 to SUN to maybe > HP3000 types and a couple of stripped down mainframes (not IBM's). I spent > the last two Saturdays trying to work out a deal and hope to know this week > or next if can start unloading these items for them. I will send out an > e-mail to all as soon as I get the word. I, for one, love your listings. Keep on, keep on, keep on. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Oct 30 10:48:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming In-Reply-To: <19971030162034.AAA29722@hotze> from "Hotze" at Oct 30, 97 07:14:00 pm Message-ID: <9710301648.AA00663@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3918 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971030/e77b9641/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Oct 30 10:45:25 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Interesting Computer Found... Message-ID: <19971030165153.AAA1583@hotze> Hello. I was looking for a keyboard for a computer that I'm putting together, when I found an interestnig contraption. I don't know if any of you have seen the new IBM Aptiva S series, but this looks similiar. The keyboard has two 3.5" diskette drives on the top, they're not moveable. They could be DS/DD, or DS/HD, I don't know. The computer looks like it only has 2 parts: The CPU/Keyboard, and the monitor. The keyboard's function keys are small, rectangular, about the size of calculator buttons, and colored yellow with blue writing. I don't know the brand name, I'm trying to aquire it. Is this a classic? What are it's specs? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Oct 30 10:51:20 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming Message-ID: <19971030165806.AAA1935@hotze> I want a Sun, a NeXT cube. I would be interested in the componets, but I don't have any working clasics. Only a broken down XT. I'm trying to get it working. Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Tim Shoppa To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 7:48 PM > Has anything happened since the 25th? I just want to know... because I > just started collecting and really want to grab a few systems. (Can people > who already have one of the systems that I'm interested in let me have > first dibbs?) I forget exactly which systems you're interested in, but I thought I'd use this opportunity to repost my list of Data General hardware that I want to find a good home for. Some of the quantities given below have changed slightly as boxes have found their way to worthy owners, but this is but a small perturbation in the total mass of stuff (around 5000 pounds or so.) Qty Model No Manufacturer Description ----- ----------- ------------- --------------------- 11 6045/6050 DG 10 MB disk drive 2 MK8024-BC-02 Mostek 128K * 21 Bit SC memory board 2 MK8024-AC-03 Mostek 128K * 21 Bit SC memory board 1 T5 12140 R08 DG 256K Memory Board (BBU) 6 T005 12132 R07 DG 32K Memory board (BBU) 5 4063 DG Quad TTY Multiplexer Board 3 DR225S Dataram 512K * 21 Bit SC Memory Board 5 T005 12383 R02 DG 64K * 21 Bit SC Memory Board 1 ? ? ADC PLT LPT board 14 Various DG Basic I/O controller board 3 PA5A1F CDC CDC FSD drive 1 77708010 CDC Lark 9457 disk drive 2 17/27 Spectra Logic Disk & Mag Tape controller 1 17+ Spectra Logic Disk ^ Mag Tape controller 9 T005 03982 R39 DG Disk controller 3 4234 DG Disk controller 3 Spectra 10 Spectra Logic Disk Drive controller 1 ? ? EDS 302 Sync Exp 2 SO#21496 DG Expansion Chassis 1 SO#9578 DG Expansion Chassis 1 T005 10043 R06 DG I/O Bus Repeater model 8315 1 005022462 DG IAC/16 1 T005 21298 R06 DG IAC 2-8 Board 1 4235A DG Intelligent Ethernet Controller 3 D503A CDC Lark Drive Controller 1 77708101 CDC Lark Disk Drive P/S Module 1 5091 Datum Mag tape controller 5 TC120 Western Periphs Mag tape controller 13 T005 6732 R11 DG MCA 4206 Board 1 P5 Keronix Memory Board 2 CE8885 DG MV/7800C Chassis 3 T005 24496 R00 DG MV/7800C CPU board w 4 MB 2 T5 20141 R24/29 DG MV/7800C P/S board 5 T005 13885 R00 DG MMPUI MOD 2 board 2 CE8885 DG MV/7800 C computer chassis 3 T005 24496 R00 DG MV/7800 C Cpu board w/4MB 2 T5 20141 R24 DG MV7800 C P/S Board 7 C8393-H DG Nova 4 Chassis, VNR Unit, Fan module 6 T005 12786 DG Nova 4 CPU board 1 T005 12067 R15 DG Nova 4 CPU board 1 T005 12788 R21 DG Nova 4 CPU board 6 T5 19489 DG Nova 4 P/S board 1 T5 18878 R00 DG Nova 4 P/S board 1 ? ? Nova Cassette I/O 3 ? DG Nova PIO DMA 2 ? DG Nova P/S module 3 T005 3575 R06 DG Programmable Interval Timer 5 8611 DG S130 Computer Chassis 5 T005 3165 DG S130 CPU 1 Board 5 T005 8523 DG S130 CPU 2 Board 6 T005 7181 DG S130 P/S module 6 4243/T005 17346 DG ULM5 Async Mux Controller Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Oct 30 11:47:27 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Uh, is this a deal? -- yup Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971030094521.2a07978e@ricochet.net> In regards to the Haggle Apple I, If you check out the guy's web page, it sounds like he's open to offers. If I could even imagine myself with $10K without falling over laughing at the absurdity, I'd make him an offer. Unfortunately he says explicitly that an offer of $300 (the most I could hope to raise) would definitely be turned down. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From jrbrady at mindspring.com Thu Oct 30 13:26:19 1997 From: jrbrady at mindspring.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <199710301926.OAA17230@camel14.mindspring.com> On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:39:31 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa wrote: > >>Ok, how about a 9511A or 9512 math co-processor chip (Intel 8231A or 8232)? >>The Intel web site has info on the 8231A only.... > >Part of the difficulty with many of these parts is that they were >so expensive in the first place, that most designers found some >way of avoiding them. The 9512 that I own, for example, cost over >US$200 when it was purchased as an option with the Compupro >System Support 1. Ouch...$200 in the early 80's was a fair amount of money. I can see why designers would try to avoid utilizing it if at all possible. According to the Intel web site, Rochester Electronics has been licensed to produce many of Intel's older NMOS chips. The news release used the 8231A as an example. I haven't browsed the Rochester site lately, but as of several weeks ago, the chip didn't appear in their inventory. If offered for sale, wonder how much they'll charge? Jason jrbrady@mindspring.com Seattle, WA From houghtom at metro.net Thu Oct 30 17:56:25 1997 From: houghtom at metro.net (Michael Houghton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Commodore 64, Vic 20, Lotsa software each + Pong Game Looking for home. Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971030235625.00689854@mail.metro.net> I have a Commodore 64 and a Vic 20, both operational, and both with lotsa software and goodies. The Vic 20 has an operational tape drive and about 10 cartriges. The 64 has a disk drive, and tons of disks worth of games and programs. They are currently seeking a home at a reasonable price. Know anyone interested? I also have a Pong game, fully operational, somewhere in the recesses of my attic. I know those are going as collector's items now. Where would I go to find a market? Thanks, m From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 30 18:30:34 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971031003034.00698398@pop3.concentric.net> No at both places I'm waiting on their management to make a deal. Will post when I get the call. At 07:14 PM 10/30/97 +0300, you wrote: >Has anything happened since the 25th? I just want to know... because I >just started collecting and really want to grab a few systems. (Can people >who already have one of the systems that I'm interested in let me have >first dibbs?) > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > >---------- >From: Lawrence Walker >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Re: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue coming >Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 11:18 AM > >> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 -0500 >> Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> From: "John R. Keys Jr." >> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > >> Subject: Update on finds for those that asked and a big rescue >coming > >> Thanks to those who e-mailed me to keep the list going, I too like to see >> what others are finding and the price items are going for. This also to >> helps hear about computers and other items that I may have never seen or >> hear of. But first about the rescue - I have located about one half of a >> 20,000 sq ft warehouse FULL of computers, monitors, printers, manuals, >sales >> promo items, old software, system disk. I'm talking C64 to SUN to maybe >> HP3000 types and a couple of stripped down mainframes (not IBM's). I >spent >> the last two Saturdays trying to work out a deal and hope to know this >week >> or next if can start unloading these items for them. I will send out an >> e-mail to all as soon as I get the word. > I, for one, love your listings. Keep on, keep on, keep on. > >ciao larry > >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > > From engine at chac.org Thu Oct 30 18:45:08 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Pong Game looking for home. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971030164502.00eedeb0@pop.batnet.com> At 15:56 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >I also have a Pong game, fully operational, somewhere in the recesses of my >attic. I know those are going as collector's items now. Where would I go >to find a market? You don't by any chance mean a Pong ARCADE game, do you? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From manney at nwohio.com Thu Oct 30 09:36:37 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Wanted: RD-51 Message-ID: <199710310135.RAA24847@mx5.u.washington.edu> I've got an ST-412...came out of an Epson, I think. manney@nwohio.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Manney Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: RD-51 >> Yes, as odd as is seems I'm looking for a functional RD-51 or equiv. 10mb >> MFM hard drive. (ST-412, etc.) >> >> I'm trying to reload an operating system onto one of my Micro PDP-11 >> systems, and it insists that it will only install to an RD-51 drive. > >You tell us which operating system this is, but most revisions of >RT-11, RSX-11M+, and RSTS/E aren't that picky about MSCP devices. > >> So... if anyone has one lying about that needs a purpose, please drop me a >> note. > >Just about any MFM hard drive can be pressed into service as a RD51 >(as it is *almost* the lowest common denominator in MFM drives, after >you forget about the original ST506). If you've got a larger physical disk, >you just tell the RQDX formatter that you're using to format it as >a smaller logical disk. > >Which RQDX formatter are you using, BTW? > >Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > From gzozman at escape.ca Thu Oct 30 08:07:49 1997 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: VCF References: <1.5.4.16.19971028195904.5d47a980@mail.crl.com> <3456DA84.76FB137A@rain.org> Message-ID: <345894B5.1864@escape.ca> Marvin wrote: > While the attendance was lower than expected, the opportunity to meet and > talk with other serious collectors was WELL worth the time and effort of > attending! What was the attendance for the event? From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Oct 29 23:02:34 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Pong Game looking for home. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971030164502.00eedeb0@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971029230234.00947630@mail.northernway.net> At 04:45 PM 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 15:56 10/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >>I also have a Pong game, fully operational, somewhere in the recesses of my >>attic. I know those are going as collector's items now. Where would I go >>to find a market? > >You don't by any chance mean a Pong ARCADE game, do you? >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org Well, if I had to fancy a guess, if it was in the "recesses" of an attic, I'd think it would be too small to be an arcade game... but of course, that would depend on the size of his attic! ;-) Have fun, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 17:46:09 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Info on things old wanted... In-Reply-To: References: <199710260626.BAA29555@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199710310451.XAA09294@smtp.interlog.com> > As far as who developed the first computer - we could argue all day on > that one. There are no distinct lines between technologies or generations. > For example, do analog computers count? At what point does a complex > feedback control become a computer? For example, do the computers used to > direct gunfire count? They date from well before World War 2, and it took > digital machines many years to surpass them in performance, yet I would > not call them computers as we think of them. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > This discussion ignited my curiosity and I checked some source-references. What I had remembered from my digital course (for me,relatively recent, 1982-83) was that a computer was defined as a device to control data or processes containing a CPU, means for I/O, and memory. This is a bigger can of worms than I had imagined . After going through several dictionaries, early general computing books and various text-books and scientific encyclos. it would seem there is no precise definition of a computer. While there are specific definitions re the various sub-species (electronic,digital,analogue.mini,mainframe, etc) the term computer is generally defined by processes. The simplest being -- -a device that computes. and the same dictionary (Websters) defines to compute -- to calculate. Oh well, we know what we mean, dont we . %^)) Anyone for a flame on game machines ? And I'm not touching on that gun-control thing with a 10-ft pole. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From RWood54741 at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 30 23:57:51 1997 From: RWood54741 at worldnet.att.net (RWood54741@worldnet.att.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Please subscribe me to the classic computing email list Message-ID: <3459735F.3326@worldnet.att.net> Thanks, Bob Wood From marvin at rain.org Fri Oct 31 00:49:47 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Non-US machines References: <199710260626.BAA29555@smtp.interlog.com> <199710310451.XAA09294@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <34597F8B.5992C62E@rain.org> Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost mint condition including the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many machines here that were manufactured in other countries (excluding of course the US manufacturers who had their machines made overseas.) This one came from a member of the Santa Barbara PC Users Group who offered it to Stephen Stone, who accepted it in my behalf which of course I gratefully accepted! A second machine I have is a Mac8 machine that came from Japan. It was given to me in kit form by the company owner while I was in Japan about 1981. I did a web search on Alta Vista and wasn't able to come up with any matches. Does anyone else have one of these and any idea how common or uncommon they might be? It is an S-100 machine with a front panal with lights and switches ala Altair or Imsai, uses either an 8080 or Z80 (can't remember which), has a 4K memory board and an SIO board. I will have a picture up in a few more minutes at http://www.rain.org/~marvin/mac8.jpg. From ejames at newwave.net Fri Oct 31 01:08:02 1997 From: ejames at newwave.net (Bruce James) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: My Recent find Message-ID: <199710310708.CAA01212@ns.newwave.net> Hi To Everyone on the list I have been following this list for a couple of months now and here is a Short list of my finds so far. Commodore 128 1902 moniter 2 1571 drives and Okidate Plug N Print 10. Texas Instruments tI994a with Biege plastic Cover and tape Deck Color Computer 2 with cassette deck Atari 800 and Tape deck and my latest find a Amiga 1000 with 1080 moniter and 512k memory anyone have more information on expansion of this computer?? Bruce James ejames@newwave.net From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 22:11:14 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: new addition: atari portfolio In-Reply-To: <971029130832_-466648001@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <199710310916.EAA23753@smtp.interlog.com> > while searching around town for a mac II video card, i came across this > little machine for $10 at a computer parts store! not long ago, some idiot > was trying to sell something similar for $100. seems to be psuedo ibm > compatible and i got the printer interface in its original box and a quick > ref guide for the preloaded apps. mine also came with a 64k mem card with a > battery backup. other than a cracked lcd hinge, seems to be pretty neat. if > anyone has a source for more info, i'd love to hear about it. another good > thing is the the space it takes up is negligable! =D > > david > Arrrgghh !! Been looking for one, unsuccessfully so far. There's a thriving Portfolio club in England as well as a web-page with links to a Portfolio zine out of Chekoslovakia that was selling upgrades. I believe Best Electronics in Cal. has parts in stock. It also had it's own language, PDOS and could transfer info with PC's. Check out the Portfolio home page at http://www.mcc.ac.uk/~dlms/Port/portfolio.html ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 22:11:14 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Portable History In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971029145422.5df79180@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199710310916.EAA23756@smtp.interlog.com> On 29 Oct 97 at 16:56, Uncle Roger wrote: > I got to thinking about VCF 2.0 and decided I might like to do a talk about > the history of portable computing. But, knowing my track record in regards > to such things, I figure I better start researching now in order to be ready > for VCF 3.0 or 4.0! > > So, I'd like to hear from anyone who has a story to tell about the history > of portable computers and such, or has any data on what the first portable, > first laptop, first handheld, etc. was etc. Also, any interesting portables > you have in your collection or know about, please tell me. Basically, if it > has to do with portable computing (or even relates to it in some obscure > way) I'd like to hear about it. > > Please e-mail me directly at . I'll take anything I > can get, compile it, and see if I can come up with something. Thanks! > > P.S., I do collect portable computers (which somehow doesn't explain the > Mini's in the basement) so if you have any you want to get rid of... 8^) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Do you have any info or manuals, etc. on the NEC Prospeed 286 ? I have a bare-bones one I managed to get up and running after an expensive long-distance call to theNEC BBS where I got the set-up and a couple of other files, but documentation was sparse. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 22:11:14 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971028232224.34b776e0@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199710310916.EAA23759@smtp.interlog.com> On 29 Oct 97 at 1:24, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 10:30 AM 10/28/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a > >large number of home micros? > > For many of the 8-bit micros that use a Composite(?) input (Commie, Atari, I > think Coco's, etc.) the Commodore 1702 (And I think 1802?) monitors were > fantastic. They also had the advantage of having standard video/audio RCA > inputs on the front, so they can double as a Telly. All you need to do is > hook it up to a VCR or maybe even just a cable box. > > I did this for years, and even once when my dad was in the hospital, brought > it in wiht a VCR so he could watch movies. Nice and compact. > Their great monitors ! I have both a 1702 and an 1802. I prefer the 1802 but they're very similiar. Mine sits on my desk on top of a C64 1541 and an Atari 1050 which sit on top of an old VCR. An Atari 130XE and a C64 are cabled nearby. It has all the usual TV controls including vol. ,tint,color, contr.,brt.,v-hold, h-posi,and v-hgt. as well as a compos-sep-mono switch in a front inset panel. Never tried my Coco 1, Vic-20, or Nintendo with it but I imagine it's possible. POW, Take THAT Bill Gates !!! ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 22:11:14 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US In-Reply-To: <34561315.D61096F1@rain.org> Message-ID: <199710310916.EAA23762@smtp.interlog.com> On 28 Oct 97 at 8:30, Marvin wrote: > kevan@heydon.org wrote: > > > Can anybody recommend a good universal monitor that can be used with a > > large number of home micros? > > I have found that the NEC Multisync coupled with one of the Commodore color > monitors make a great setup. With those two monitors, just about everything > is covered. While I haven't checked, the NEC may also be capable of > composite video input but I use the Commodore for that since it also has an > audio input. > I've got a NEC Multi 2A which unfortunately is one of the few of the old NEC's that IIHC won't work with my ST. It has the 15 pin analogue plug and I've heard that adapters for 9-pin are available. What are the different type of 'chines they would work with . At present I use a 15-pin ABCD monitor switchbox with my MessyDoze analogue boxes. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Oct 30 22:11:13 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971029145419.601f58d4@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199710310916.EAA23765@smtp.interlog.com> > At 07:38 AM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the > >>Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. > > > > Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in > > Whups! I did not mean to imply at all that Fido was dead. Only that I was > communicating with people around the world long before most of us heard > about the Internet. I think Fido is great and I'm glad to hear it is still > going strong. > Btw, is Tom(?) Jennings (is that his name? the author of Fido) still around > in the Fido world? I met him once -- a true genius, and definitely deserves > greater acclaim than he has received. > Maybe someone more knowledgeable could fill us in, but based on scuttlebut I read in some FIDO confs. he recently pulled the plug on FIDO, since he holds the patent, and many N.A. nodes have folded their tents and the remaining ones are operating illegally, causing a drop-off in traffic. Outside N.A. AFAIK , it's going strong. Perhaps Bruce Lane could set me straight on this if you will. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From pjoules at enterprise.net Fri Oct 31 03:51:48 1997 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: new addition: atari portfolio Message-ID: <01bce5e2$9b2cb7e0$104e53c2@mis2.coleg-powys.ac.uk> Lawrence Walker said: >Check out the Portfolio home page at > http://www.mcc.ac.uk/~dlms/Port/portfolio.html www.mcc.ac.uk says: >The link that you have followed points to a document that does not exist. Please >contact the author(s) of the referer document to ask them to remove/correct the >pointer. Is the page gone or is the URL wrong? Regards Pete #include From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Oct 31 04:02:50 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Fido is far from dead! Message-ID: <19971031100916.AAA19211@hotze> Okay, let's all try to search for this Tim Jennings and try to encourage him to either re-connect or make a new version of Fido. There are enough of us with enough experiance to encourage him. Imagine! Having a living legend with us!!! I believe that BBSs in a HTML or Java-ized form still have a chance yet. They're 1. fast 2. cheap 3. You can use them for a multitude of services-like you could have 1 server, give it a cheap (sort of) 56K or ISDN connection, and then all users would have internet access. At least we could try to get patent rights if he'd let us. (Which he probably would, as he's not doing to much with it now!), and establish ourselves as a hisoric society (What else could you call us?), and make a few BBSs just to be a part of history. Oh, yeah, I have one more question. If I want to make a BBS (regardless or software), what type of hardware should I have to handle multiple connections? I believe that my computer is BBS-server-sufficent for DOS (2 GB HDD, 28 MB RAM, 486/66 processor), as that's twice as fast as a server would be in 1990, with DOS at it's peak, before Windows started ruining the whole thing :-) . Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Lawrence Walker To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Fido is far from dead! Date: Friday, October 31, 1997 7:11 AM > At 07:38 AM 10/29/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>Check around on the web for Fido software. Back in the days before the > >>Internet, FidoNet was a world-wide network of independant BBS's. > > > > Fido is far from dead. In fact, some sysops have claimed an increase in > > Whups! I did not mean to imply at all that Fido was dead. Only that I was > communicating with people around the world long before most of us heard > about the Internet. I think Fido is great and I'm glad to hear it is still > going strong. > Btw, is Tom(?) Jennings (is that his name? the author of Fido) still around > in the Fido world? I met him once -- a true genius, and definitely deserves > greater acclaim than he has received. > Maybe someone more knowledgeable could fill us in, but based on scuttlebut I read in some FIDO confs. he recently pulled the plug on FIDO, since he holds the patent, and many N.A. nodes have folded their tents and the remaining ones are operating illegally, causing a drop-off in traffic. Outside N.A. AFAIK , it's going strong. Perhaps Bruce Lane could set me straight on this if you will. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From kevan at heydon.org Fri Oct 31 05:16:41 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept Message-ID: <199710311116.LAA20278@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Last night I acquired a Corvus Concept CPU box and hard disk unit. Does anybody have any information about these? More specifically I am missing the monitor and keyboard and have no documentation on the specifications of these. They are both 9pin D connectors and that is all I know. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From kevan at heydon.org Fri Oct 31 05:25:47 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: UK Based CPM machine collectors... Message-ID: <199710311125.LAA20425@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Are there any collectors in the UK that specialize in CPM machines. Last night I acquired a Philips PC2000 portable (along with the Corvis Concept) and while it is a nice machine (and has lots of documentation including service manuals) I don't have a great affinity to CPM machines because I have never used them out side of collecting them. (and I am trying to limit my collection to home micros, workstations and strange one off machines.) If you would be interested in this machine, and maybe some others I have then email me. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Oct 31 09:07:55 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: <199710311116.LAA20278@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <891F73235E8@ifrsys.com> According to the _Microcomputer_Buyers_Guide_ (1983 edition): " The Corvus Concept is an integrated desktop system that can function as a workstation in the Corvus OMNINET network (no mass storage) or as a standalone computing system (with mass storage). One of the most innovative user oriented features of the Concept is the dual-orientation display. By simply releasing a catch, it can be changed to either the portrait (vertical) or landscape (horizontal) orientation. Display capability is 129 characters by 56 lines in landscape, and 90 characters x 72 lines in portrait. Major features of the Concept are: 68000 16/32-bit mircoprocessor, 256 Kb memory (expandable to 512Kb); two serial RS-232-C I/O ports; one OMNINET local network interface (RS-422); one flexible sound generator with speaker; CRT display; and keyboard. The Concept may be expanded with both floppy and Winchester disk drives." The entry goes on to say that you could use 8" or 5.25" floppies; 5.7, 10.8, and 19.7 meg harddisks; 73Mb tape backup ("using video cassette recorder technology") :-P. It also says that the top speed for OMNINET is 1,000,000 bits/s. The Concept evidently used its own obscure "Unix-Like" operating system, as well as a CP/M emulator. Jeff > > Hi, > > Last night I acquired a Corvus Concept CPU box and hard disk unit. Does > anybody have any information about these? More specifically I am > missing the monitor and keyboard and have no documentation on the > specifications of these. They are both 9pin D connectors and that is > all I know. > > -- > Kevan > > Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ > > > From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Oct 31 09:46:11 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: BBS Box In-Reply-To: <19971031100916.AAA19211@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971031104611.00957770@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Hotze said: > Oh, yeah, I have one more question. If I want to make a BBS (regardless >or software), what type of hardware should I have to handle multiple >connections? I believe that my computer is BBS-server-sufficent for DOS (2 >GB HDD, 28 MB RAM, 486/66 processor), as that's twice as fast as a server >would be in 1990, with DOS at it's peak, before Windows started ruining the >whole thing :-) . How many multiple connections? What kind of speed per connection? Do you also want to use the machine for yourself at the same time? These do make a difference, for you could run 2 connections at 2400 baud on a 2Mhz CoCo 3 w/512K RAM. All you need is a way to interface the ports (or build your own.) Under OS-9, you may even have enough CPU over to play Rogue (tho not quickly). With a 6309 processor and NitrOS-9, you could most easily do this setup and still use the machine for yourself. (And yes, someone *has* designed an overclocking circuit to run a 6x09 at 4Mhz, except during memory accesses which does gain you a fair amount of speed... ;-) In the IBM world, I'd say for 4 dial up lines at 9600/14.4 you'd need a minimum of a 386DX 25 w/8 Megs RAM, running Dos/Linux (Windows not spoken here... too much overhead) and decent BBS software and you'd have no problem whatsoever. (Again, with Linux, you may still be able to use the machine for background tasks for yourself without harming that speed... but not big jobs, of course.) Anyway, YMMV, HTH, HSIYE (Here's Spit In Your Eye... ;-) and all that jazz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From kevan at heydon.org Fri Oct 31 09:47:39 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: <891F73235E8@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <199710311547.PAA23857@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> In message <891F73235E8@ifrsys.com>you write: > > The entry goes on to say that you could use 8" or 5.25" floppies; > 5.7, 10.8, and 19.7 meg harddisks; 73Mb tape backup ("using video > cassette recorder technology") :-P. Cool, I had been wondering what the video in and out and VCR controler sockets were doing on the back of the hard disk unit I have. Kevan From marvin at rain.org Fri Oct 31 10:04:36 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Space problems in the UK and US References: <199710310916.EAA23762@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <345A0193.EEB438B1@rain.org> Lawrence Walker wrote: > On 28 Oct 97 at 8:30, Marvin wrote: > > > I have found that the NEC Multisync coupled with one of the Commodore > color > > monitors make a great setup. With those two monitors, just about > everything > > is covered. While I haven't checked, the NEC may also be capable of > > composite video input but I use the Commodore for that since it also has > an > > audio input. > > > I've got a NEC Multi 2A which unfortunately is one of the few of > the old NEC's that IIHC won't work with my ST. It has the 15 > pin analogue plug and I've heard that adapters for 9-pin are > available. What are the different type of 'chines they would work > with . At present I use a 15-pin ABCD monitor switchbox with my > MessyDoze analogue boxes. I wasn't aware that the NEC 2A came with a 15 pin connector as the one I have uses a DB9 connector. The monitor is capable of both analog and TTL inputs which is why I like it. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the ST ... but then again, my knowledge of the ST is a bit sparce. From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Oct 31 10:29:11 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Monitors... In-Reply-To: <199710310916.EAA23762@smtp.interlog.com> References: <34561315.D61096F1@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971031112911.00988100@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Lawrence Walker said: > I've got a NEC Multi 2A which unfortunately is one of the few of >the old NEC's that IIHC won't work with my ST. It has the 15 >pin analogue plug and I've heard that adapters for 9-pin are >available. What are the different type of 'chines they would work >with . At present I use a 15-pin ABCD monitor switchbox with my >MessyDoze analogue boxes. Tho I hate to tell folks they're wrong, but in this case, you may wish to hear this... the Multi 2a *should* work fine with your ST, unless the 2A cannot handle negative sync signals. If that's the case, all you'll need is a one-chip solution to invert the sync signals with (IIRC) a 7404 (or whatever the hex inverter chip number is... databooks at home, me at work, and I'm *bad* with remembering numbers). AFAIR, the 2A *will* sync down to 15.75KHz, which is what the CoCo3, Amiga and Atari ST require for their video signals. The person who could tell you more about this is Dr. Marty Goodman... post a message on news://bit.listserv.coco/ and you should receive lots of good information. Tell everyone "Merch" sent you. Hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From engine at chac.org Fri Oct 31 10:52:50 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Mark Smith's Atari pages Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971031084932.00fc9c10@pop.batnet.com> At 09:51 10/31/97 -0000, you wrote: >The link that you have followed points to a document that does not exist. >Please contact the author(s) of the referer document to ask them to >remove/correct the pointer. > >Is the page gone or is the URL wrong? Neither, I just got to it myself. It's at Manchester. Try http://www.mcc.ac.uk/~dlms/atari.html __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Fri Oct 31 10:52:49 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: new addition: atari portfolio Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971031083929.00ef9b30@pop.batnet.com> At 04:11 10/31/97 +0000, you wrote: >> while searching around town for a mac II video card, i came across this >> little machine for $10 at a computer parts store! not long ago, some idiot >> was trying to sell something similar for $100.... A: You were real lucky to get one for $10. B: re "idiot," I bought a Pofo with a cool leather case, two RAM cards and full docs from a Stanford student for $75, two years ago, and recognized it then as a bargain. Today in the Valley a working Portfolio, with case and set of goodies, is $150 to $200. (For most of its life the bare machine sold for $295 new.) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Oct 31 11:12:43 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: BBS Box Message-ID: <19971031171743.AAA9839@hotze> Well, I really want to just have about 5 connections. I don't want to be using the machine for my own purposes, but rather to "join in" on the BBS itself. I think that a 4800 connection would be good... about twice as fast as a 28800 internet connection. I'm really ready to learn, but at this time of writing, I only have the 486/66, and an 080880/8Mhz, which dosn't work. I really just want to make something for my friends and I to meet on... here, Internet is still expensive, and most people refust to upgrade to anything past Netscape 2.0. I need really to know about multiple phone/modems. The phone isn't a problem, the modem is. How much do the 4800's run for? I've already got two modems, one a 2400 sendf/9600 recieve, and another a 33.6 both ways. I really need to know what to do, the whole smackum, as I'm very "computer literate", in DOS and Windows, but rather inexperianced with this kind of stuff. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ---------- From: Roger Merchberger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: BBS Box Date: Friday, October 31, 1997 6:46 PM Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Hotze said: > Oh, yeah, I have one more question. If I want to make a BBS (regardless >or software), what type of hardware should I have to handle multiple >connections? I believe that my computer is BBS-server-sufficent for DOS (2 >GB HDD, 28 MB RAM, 486/66 processor), as that's twice as fast as a server >would be in 1990, with DOS at it's peak, before Windows started ruining the >whole thing :-) . How many multiple connections? What kind of speed per connection? Do you also want to use the machine for yourself at the same time? These do make a difference, for you could run 2 connections at 2400 baud on a 2Mhz CoCo 3 w/512K RAM. All you need is a way to interface the ports (or build your own.) Under OS-9, you may even have enough CPU over to play Rogue (tho not quickly). With a 6309 processor and NitrOS-9, you could most easily do this setup and still use the machine for yourself. (And yes, someone *has* designed an overclocking circuit to run a 6x09 at 4Mhz, except during memory accesses which does gain you a fair amount of speed... ;-) In the IBM world, I'd say for 4 dial up lines at 9600/14.4 you'd need a minimum of a 386DX 25 w/8 Megs RAM, running Dos/Linux (Windows not spoken here... too much overhead) and decent BBS software and you'd have no problem whatsoever. (Again, with Linux, you may still be able to use the machine for background tasks for yourself without harming that speed... but not big jobs, of course.) Anyway, YMMV, HTH, HSIYE (Here's Spit In Your Eye... ;-) and all that jazz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Oct 31 11:22:09 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there was an error when I sent it direct.... Message-ID: <19971031172637.AAA10527@hotze> Sorry it took so long. I tried mailing you, but there was an error. ---------- From: PG Manney To: photze@batelco.com.bh Subject: Re: The link you sent Date: Thursday, October 30, 1997 6:01 PM >It's really comforting to know that some people have consionace. >Thanks. I'm trying to raise my children with consciences, too. We're >Christians, and we feel that treating people *right* is very important Those people will be the future leaders of our world. >I hope >that you're not in a hurry: A friend's giving me a new board, and they say >that it could take some time to get it, but as soon as I get it, they new >board will get shipped to you. Don't worry, I won't give it to anyone >else. I always need motherboards and drives (got any old IDE drives around?), because I buy and sell computers. We're out here in the wilds of Ohio (USA), where many people have older systems...I even sold a Commodore the other day! I have an old IDE drive, it's a Segate 41 MB. It says ST-251, then on a seperate sticker it says -1 right next to the first one. Serial number is 25534738. It's the large kind, like they had back in the early 80's. If you repair computers, I have a additional 486/SX 33 that I could throw in. >remember the XT being the first IBM, but I might be wrong. The IBM PC (model 5150, IIRC was the first PC...you can tell that one from the TX sinc the PC had a small funny keyboard (very small, oddly placed "Enter" key), 5 slots (the XT had 8) and a Cassette plug next to the keyboard one. Also, the case said "IBM Personal Computer" instead of "IBM Personal Computer XT". The motherboard was redesigned in the XT (the PC, for example, had 2 banks of DIP switches on the motherboard, instead of one). The XT counted out memory when it booted up, the PC just gave you a flashing cursor to stare at. Actually, the IBM 5100 was the first desktop computer. It had 8" drives, a dedicated printer and all that...it bombed, and IBM didn't try again until the PC. >Lessee...I have several Commodores, a couple of VIC-20's (one in original >box with original packaging, used once.), a couple of Apples... two or three >PC's and an XT (I think). It would be better to send *anything* but the >IBM's, because everything else is plastic-cased, and therefore lighter. >Still, you're the customer! I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20? And what model of Comodore, and Apple? I have a TV screen, I even have one in the guest bedroom that's used once in a blue moon. Didn't the older Apples up to the IIGS have attached monitors? (I remember a few Macs that had one later than that...) >The Post Office tells me that 44 lbs will cost $89 US to send to you. If you >have a TV screen, you can save on the cost of shipping a monitor for an >Apple/Commodore/anything else. (The IBM will work a TV screen with the right >card, but colors are funny). Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Oct 31 13:15:24 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: new addition: atari portfolio Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971031111323.44b7889a@ricochet.net> > while searching around town for a mac II video card, i came across this > little machine for $10 at a computer parts store! not long ago, some idiot That's a great price for a portfolio. (Even without all the the expansion stuff.) The portfolio was one of the first handheld computers, and is (afaik) either the first or second handheld PC Compatible. (The other contender is the Poquet PC -- I've never seen a definitive answer as to which was first.) If you want to get rid of it, I'd gladly double your money! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From engine at chac.org Fri Oct 31 14:11:01 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: Sorry.... Message-ID: <01bce639$1c4c0640$8517a2cd@croskan.vip.best.com> >I have an old IDE drive, it's a Segate 41 MB. It says ST-251, then on a >seperate sticker it says -1 right next to the first one. Serial number is >25534738. It's the large kind, like they had back in the early 80's. An ST-251-1 isn't an IDE. It's a 40MB half-height 5.25 MFM drive. It'll run at 1 to 1 (also known as "no") interleave if you can find a fast enough controller; try an Everex EV-332 with fairly late ROMs. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Oct 31 13:22:04 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:22 2005 Subject: 'Naked Mini' docs needed Message-ID: Just picked up a Computer Automation "Naked Mini" computer (PC board actually), and now need to find some docs on it. I can make a few assumptions based on examining the board, but there a number of option jumpers, connectors, and card edge (finger) connectors on it, and I'd just as rather not blow the poor thing up by experimenting on it. So, does anyone have either a spare copy of the docs, or can be convinced to run a set thru your favourite mode of duplication? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 31 13:59:17 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Non-US machines In-Reply-To: <34597F8B.5992C62E@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost mint condition including > the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be > missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or > sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be > here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many machines here > that were manufactured in other countries (excluding of course the US > manufacturers who had their machines made overseas.) This one came from a > member of the Santa Barbara PC Users Group who offered it to Stephen Stone, > who accepted it in my behalf which of course I gratefully accepted! I don't know about the MTX-512, but since both UniForm and 22Disk list other Memotech models, e.g. MaxBP (3.5") and FDX (5.25"), they are not total strangers. - don > A second machine I have is a Mac8 machine that came from Japan. It was > given to me in kit form by the company owner while I was in Japan about > 1981. I did a web search on Alta Vista and wasn't able to come up with any > matches. Does anyone else have one of these and any idea how common or > uncommon they might be? It is an S-100 machine with a front panal with > lights and switches ala Altair or Imsai, uses either an 8080 or Z80 (can't > remember which), has a 4K memory board and an SIO board. I will have a > picture up in a few more minutes at http://www.rain.org/~marvin/mac8.jpg. > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Oct 31 17:55:38 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: DL11 cables Message-ID: here we go again... With the DLV11-J cable, RCV- and GND have to be crossed. Is there any such crossing required with the DL11-W? I can see output from the PDP, but I can't talk back to it. From ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu Fri Oct 31 18:12:49 1997 From: ware at xtal.pharm.nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Non-US machines In-Reply-To: <34597F8B.5992C62E@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote: > Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost mint condition including > the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be > missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or > sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be > here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many Before the MTX-512, Memotech made accessories for Sinclair machines and marketed them in the US. I remember getting direct mail advertisements from Memotech for low-wobble RAM packs, RS-232 interfaces, and high resolution graphics packs for the ZX81/TS1000. After the introduction of the MTX-512, Memotech had a trade in offer that allowed Sinclair users to trade in their machines (as well as any Memotech ZX81 peripherals) on a new MTX-512. I didn't take advantage of the offer, but I would imagine that it was sent out to many members of US Timex/Sinclair user's groups, which, at the time, probably included a relatively substantial number of people. Of course, advertising doesn't necessarily result in sales - I've never come across an MTX-512 in my years of scrounging. As an aside, I'll probably put the first part of my web site on line this weekend. I'll post the URL when it's available. I plan to concentrate on the machines in my collection that are the least well represented on the Web, starting with the Expander, a somewhat Sol-like system designed by Lee Felsenstein for use in Sweden. If anyone has additional information on the Expander, please let me know. I don't have any documentation for this machine, so my current knowledge of the Expander is based on hardware observations, comparisons with the SOL-20, and the interview with Lee Felsenstein in CHAC's "Analytical Engine" version 3.2. Guess I should have gone to the VCF... -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Oct 31 18:35:28 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: DL11 cables In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Oct 31, 97 05:55:38 pm Message-ID: <9711010035.AA06734@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 9224 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971031/9d26caef/attachment.ksh From danjo at xnet.com Fri Oct 31 19:35:43 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: BBS Box In-Reply-To: <19971031171743.AAA9839@hotze> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Hotze wrote: > Well, I really want to just have about 5 connections. I don't want to be > using the machine for my own purposes, but rather to "join in" on the BBS > itself. I think that a 4800 connection would be good... about twice as > fast as a 28800 internet connection. Huh? I hope you mean text based versus graphics here 8-) > I'm really ready to learn, but at > this time of writing, I only have the 486/66, and an 080880/8Mhz, which > dosn't work. I really just want to make something for my friends and I to > meet on... here, Internet is still expensive, and most people refust to > upgrade to anything past Netscape 2.0. I need really to know about > multiple phone/modems. The phone isn't a problem, the modem is. How much > do the 4800's run for? I've already got two modems, one a 2400 sendf/9600 > recieve, and another a 33.6 both ways. I really need to know what to do, > the whole smackum, as I'm very "computer literate", in DOS and Windows, but > rather inexperianced with this kind of stuff. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze Tim - go right for Linux! Don't even think of FIDO - well think about it 8-) If you get UUCP support, you can acutally become a local provider. If your buddies want web pages and a shell account to play with Linux is your best bet. You can - with UUCP - even allow Internet EMail - and even even access other systems if you set up your system correctly. You can send and recieve email and files - oh say 4-8 times a day - more frequently if you want and all of them will transfer in one shot so it is *like* FIDOnet. I run Linux 2.0.28/9 on two machines - one is my dedicated comms server with diald to make the connection and it has a HTTP server with EMail. We only connect with one modem and everybody uses the same connection at the same time. Get whatever modems you want to use - a multiple port serial card will let you run as many modems as you can afford 8-) 16-32 way too many phones lines to afford! DO NOT use internals - even with M$ stuff! FIDO net was set up to allow home computers to run like UUCP machines (when they were the *rage*) so why not use the real thing? Just my $0.48 worth 8-) BC From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 31 20:21:47 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: My Recent find In-Reply-To: <199710310708.CAA01212@ns.newwave.net> Message-ID: >Commodore 128 1902 moniter 2 1571 drives and Okidate Plug N Print 10. Nice, if this doesn't include the CP/M disk, it's possible to download it off of the Internet. Of course then you need to build a X-1541 cable to copy it back onto a floppy. The X-1541 cable lets you hook a 1541/1571 up to an IBM compatible PC. >Texas Instruments tI994a with Biege plastic Cover and tape Deck >Color Computer 2 with cassette deck >Atari 800 and Tape deck Hmmm, I'm starting to notice a pattern here with the tape decks :^) >and my latest find a Amiga 1000 with 1080 moniter and 512k memory >anyone have more information on expansion of this computer?? Congratulations, you now own the least expandable of the Amiga's. All isn't lost though. I'd recommend doing a search of Deja News for the "Amiga 1000". How to expand them is something of a FAQ when it comes to Amiga's. I'm afraid I've not paid much attention to the subject as the 1000 is one of the few models I don't have. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Oct 30 22:16:49 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: resubscribe? Message-ID: <199711010416.VAA10729@calico.litterbox.com> Ok, I've had my sulk, can I resubscribe? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- "...It tells me that goose stepping morons like yourself should try reading books instead of burning them." -Dr. Henry Jones Sr. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Oct 31 22:34:27 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: kevan@heydon.org's message of Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:16:41 +0000 References: <199710311116.LAA20278@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199711010434.UAA22461@daemonweed.reanimators.org> kevan@heydon.org wrote: > Last night I acquired a Corvus Concept CPU box and hard disk unit. Does > anybody have any information about these? More specifically I am > missing the monitor and keyboard and have no documentation on the > specifications of these. They are both 9pin D connectors and that is > all I know. Well, I am sitting here looking at a little book with title HARDWARE DESCRIPTION THE CORVUS CONCEPT You might think that with a title like that it would have connector pinouts, but, um, not quite. Well, it does have the pinout for the bus slots, which are like Apple ][ slots less DMA support. So what can I find about video? The display area is supposed to be 560 x 720 dots. The monitor used by Corvus was a Ball HD series monitor (so says the manual) in a Corvus-peculiar case (so says me). It looks like all the timing is derived from a 16.364 MHz clock that is generated on the memory board. That gets divided by the "horizontal counter" (74163s at U202 then U203 and U204) to produce a 34.669 KHz clock that is the horizontal scanning frequency. There is also a "vertical counter" (at U301) to produce a 50 Hz or 60 Hz vertical sync clock. "The video shift registers comprise 74S299 U106, U206 and 74ls299 U306..U806 for video data. The data is shifted at 16 MHz in two pairs of registers. The output of one register is fed directly into a 74S157 multiplexer U104 which is switched between two inputs at a 16 MHz rate. The other register feeds a 74S112 flipflop U103 which delays the data by 30 ms and then feeds it to the multiplexer. This makes a data rate of 32 MHz." I'm not much of a hardware guy, but I hope that gives you some clues for board-tracing and monitor selection. Note that the system can run the monitor in either landscape or portrait mode (hence the peculiar case, with slots for the base on two sides). I think you are supposed to tell it how you've got the monitor positioned with the VERT/HORIZ switch on the back. That doesn't change the video timing, it changes how the software draws into the memory. Now what about the keyboard? I gather there is a 6551 UART at U310 that receives keycodes, one for each key-down or key-up. Key-down codes have the most-significant-bit set; key-up codes have it clear but are otherwise identical to key-down codes. ... Some other notes. Jeff Kaneko wrote that the operating system was "Unix-like". I don't know, I haven't seen it run much less try to hack on it, but from reading the manuals I'd say it was more p-System like, except that it runs 68000 code instead of p-Machine code. The hard disk(s) could be hooked up over the Omninet (in which case the disk box was connected to an Omninet-attached disk server box) or via a hard-disk interface that sat in one of the Concept's expansion slots. There were also expansion cards to control 8" and 5.25" diskette drives. I'm not sure exactly how the VCR-backup stuff works. From reading another manual (the Disk Drive Installation Guide) it looks like there is an option for the disk to have a "Mirror" built-in. There are four DIP switches on the back that need to be set different ways for different circumstances: no Mirror built in => all closed Mirror built in, NTSC VCR => all open Mirror built in, PAL/SECAM VCR => 1 closed, 2-4 open ... Well, I hope that helps a bit. Yes, I have one of these. No, I haven't done anything with it as yet, save haul the CPU, monitor, and keyboard up to VCF for folks to gawk at. -Frank McConnell From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Oct 31 23:27:38 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: <199710311116.LAA20278@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: >Last night I acquired a Corvus Concept CPU box and hard disk unit. Does >anybody have any information about these? More specifically I am >missing the monitor and keyboard and have no documentation on the >specifications of these. They are both 9pin D connectors and that is >all I know. I was just looking for some info on the "Machine Room" site and saw the following entry. http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Corvus_Concept.html I must say it's a VERY interesting looking machine. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From manney at nwohio.com Fri Oct 31 14:01:01 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Sorry.... Message-ID: <199711010543.VAA22640@mx3.u.washington.edu> >>I have an old IDE drive, it's a Segate 41 MB. It says ST-251, then on a >>seperate sticker it says -1 right next to the first one. Serial number is >>25534738. It's the large kind, like they had back in the early 80's. > > >An ST-251-1 isn't an IDE. It's a 40MB half-height 5.25 MFM drive. It'll >run at 1 to 1 (also known as "no") interleave if you can find a fast enough >controller; try an Everex EV-332 with fairly late ROMs. Um -- very tiny point. The interface is ST-506/412. The _encoding_ is MFM. Plenty of 5 1/4" form factor drives (such as the ST-238) used RLL encoding, but the same physical interface...i.e. ST-506/412. You can tell an IDE because it has one 40-pin cable...the ST-506/412 interface required 2 cables...a 20-pin and a 34 pin. ESDI's (rare) took 2 cables (20 & 34) also. manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Fri Oct 31 14:24:26 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Sorry, I need to get this to PG Manney, there was Message-ID: <199711010543.VAA06145@mx2.u.washington.edu> >Sorry it took so long. I tried mailing you, but there was an error. ...and I thought computers never went wrong! > >It's really comforting to know that some people have consionace. > >>Thanks. I'm trying to raise my children with consciences, too. We're >>Christians, and we feel that treating people *right* is very important >Those people will be the future leaders of our world. >>I hope >>that you're not in a hurry: A friend's giving me a new board, and they say >>that it could take some time to get it, but as soon as I get it, they new >>board will get shipped to you. Don't worry, I won't give it to anyone >>else. > >I always need motherboards and drives (got any old IDE drives around?), >because I buy and sell computers. We're out here in the wilds of Ohio >(USA), >where many people have older systems...I even sold a Commodore the other >day! >I have an old IDE drive, it's a Segate 41 MB. It says ST-251, then on a >seperate sticker it says -1 right next to the first one. Serial number is >25534738. It's the large kind, like they had back in the early 80's. It's a 40 MB hard drive (6 Heads, 820 Cylinders, 17 cylinders) > If you repair computers, I have a additional 486/SX 33 that I could throw >in. Glad to take it! >>remember the XT being the first IBM, but I might be wrong. > >The IBM PC (model 5150, IIRC was the first PC...you can tell that one from >the TX sinc the PC had a small funny keyboard (very small, oddly placed >"Enter" key), 5 slots (the XT had 8) and a Cassette plug next to the >keyboard one. Also, the case said "IBM Personal Computer" instead of "IBM >Personal Computer XT". The motherboard was redesigned in the XT (the PC, >for >example, had 2 banks of DIP switches on the motherboard, instead of one). >The XT counted out memory when it booted up, the PC just gave you a >flashing >cursor to stare at. > >Actually, the IBM 5100 was the first desktop computer. It had 8" drives, a >dedicated printer and all that...it bombed, and IBM didn't try again until >the PC. > >>Lessee...I have several Commodores, a couple of VIC-20's (one in original >>box with original packaging, used once.), a couple of Apples... two or >three >>PC's and an XT (I think). It would be better to send *anything* but the >>IBM's, because everything else is plastic-cased, and therefore lighter. >>Still, you're the customer! > I'm new at collecting classics. What is a VIC-20? The VIC-20 was Commodore's first computer...2K of RAM (I think), did sounds and color TV screen stuff. >And what model of >Comodore, Commodore 64 and Apple? Apple II C (I think). I have a TV screen, I even have one in the guest >bedroom that's used once in a blue moon. Didn't the older Apples up to the >IIGS have attached monitors? I don't think so. I'm no Apple expert, though. thedm@sunflower.com says he knows Apples and can answer questions. Chuck Cokendale ccdale@dcache.net knows Commodores. (I remember a few Macs that had one later >than that...) >>The Post Office tells me that 44 lbs will cost $89 US to send to you. If >you >>have a TV screen, you can save on the cost of shipping a monitor for an >>Apple/Commodore/anything else. (The IBM will work a TV screen with the >right >>card, but colors are funny). From cad at gamewood.net Sun Oct 5 10:11:25 1997 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Cheap "variac"? References: Message-ID: <3437AE1D.29C4@gamewood.net> Sam Ismail wrote: > > Today at a local flea market, I picked up a PRO (Made in Taiwan) Soldering > Iron Controller. It has a three-prong power outlet and a heavy duty > potentiometer for controlling the voltage level of the outlet. > > The labeling indicates "MAX. 800 WATTS-120 V.A.C." My math tells me that > this unit can handle a maximum of 6 amps. Would this be safe to use as a > variac on, say, a sparsely loaded IMSAI? > > It was only a buck. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] Hi Sam: Safe??? --- That's a loaded question. Consider the differences in output --- The 'Variac' (or equivalent variable transformer), will be putting out a comparitively _clean_ 'sine wave'. (It will even have filtered out _soome_ of the garbage that is on the normal 110v AC line.) The 'Soldering Iron Controller', is _probably_ an SCR and control circuits. The output of that will be a _very_ chopped up AC (I.E. the wattage control, is varying the 'turn on point' during the AC cycle to control the effective power.) The 'Soldering Iron Controller', is suitable for _resistive_ loads, that don't care about the wave form of the incoming power. I.E. soldering irons, light bulbs (but NOT fluorescent fixtures), lightly loaded _universal_ motors.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From cad at gamewood.net Fri Oct 10 13:30:11 1997 From: cad at gamewood.net (Charles A Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too References: <199810081629.AA10315@world.std.com> Message-ID: <343E7433.4A66@gamewood.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: snip > Interesting. I'd always only considered FORTH to be a language. So can it > provide a "OS" of sorts in the same sense that BASIC did on systems such as > the VIC-20 and C-64? > > I took a quick look at the FORTH resources you listed, but they don't > really seem to have anything to do with PDP-11's. Is there a better place > to get information on it for the PDP-11? i.e. a DECUS directory in the > Sunsite archive? > > Zane > Hi Zane: If you look at the _basic_ idea behind FORTH as a language, you will find that it completely bypasses any other OS. I.E. Forth consists of a few hundred bytes of machine code, that implements a _minimal_ FORTH 'kernel'. With this 'kernel' in operation, the rest of the necessary computer (machine) operating system is written _in_FORTH_. Said OS being as complicated, or as simple as desired. The 'minimal few hundred bytes of machine code', is processor specific. The part of the OS written in FORTH is portable, and _NOT_ machine specific. The Forth Interest Group (FIG) home page is at http://www.forth.org/fig.html , which is your best place to start looking for FORTH information. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Oct 31 21:36:21 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:23 2005 Subject: BBS Box Message-ID: <19971101034733.AAC21709@hotze> ---------- From: Brett To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: BBS Box Date: Saturday, November 01, 1997 4:35 AM On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Hotze wrote: Huh? I hope you mean text based versus graphics here 8-) Anything will be fine, but I want as much graphics cabilities as possible. > I'm really ready to learn, but at > this time of writing, I only have the 486/66, and an 080880/8Mhz, which > dosn't work. I really just want to make something for my friends and I to > meet on... here, Internet is still expensive, and most people refust to > upgrade to anything past Netscape 2.0. I need really to know about > multiple phone/modems. The phone isn't a problem, the modem is. How much > do the 4800's run for? I've already got two modems, one a 2400 sendf/9600 > recieve, and another a 33.6 both ways. I really need to know what to do, > the whole smackum, as I'm very "computer literate", in DOS and Windows, but > rather inexperianced with this kind of stuff. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze >Tim - go right for Linux! Don't even think of FIDO - well think about it >8-) I only have a 28.8 connection, and I don't know where I can get an inexpensive Linux OS. Maybe you can help me. OR CAN ANYONE ELSE HERE HELP ME? >If you get UUCP support, you can acutally become a local provider. If your >buddies want web pages and a shell account to play with Linux is your best >bet. You can - with UUCP - even allow Internet EMail - and even even >access other systems if you set up your system correctly. You can send and >recieve email and files - oh say 4-8 times a day - more frequently if you >want and all of them will transfer in one shot so it is *like* FIDOnet. Can you help me with that? Explain more. That's very interesting. >I run Linux 2.0.28/9 on two machines - one is my dedicated comms server >with diald to make the connection and it has a HTTP server with EMail. >We only connect with one modem and everybody uses the same connection at >the same time. Yeah, but here, a dedicated connection costs about $10,000 a month. I don't even want to think of that. Possibly I could just connect then disconnect really quickly. >Get whatever modems you want to use - a multiple port serial card will >let you run as many modems as you can afford 8-) 16-32 way too many >phones lines to afford! DO NOT use internals - even with M$ stuff! Okay, no internals. But don't worry about the phone lines. 1: it's only 5, and 2. I can get them free. >FIDO net was set up to allow home computers to run like UUCP machines >(when they were the *rage*) so why not use the real thing? Why not? But I want to do this on my home computer :-) Just my $0.48 worth 8-) BC From General at cyber.net.pk Mon Oct 13 11:22:30 1997 From: General at cyber.net.pk (Abdul Rehman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:03:19 2005 Subject: ldb4401 can be replaced by .....? Message-ID: <34424AC6.B34117A5@cyber.net.pk> dear sir please address the issue regards nasir