From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Dec 1 01:07:04 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:47 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <3481E3E4.B49@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971130230704.0398c990@agora.rdrop.com> At 10:08 PM 11/30/97 +0000, you wrote: >I have a query about the operation of a KSR 33 TTY when reading paper >tape : does the TTY blindly send the characters read from the tape at 10 >cps or is the tape advance and read triggered by a signal from whatever >th TTY is connected to. Minor niggle... a 'KSR' unit is Keyboard Send/Receive. Ergo: no tape reader/punch. Now, an 'ASR' unit on the other hand... B^} The "standard" TTY unit will operate in the "blind send" mode. You start the reader going and the other end had better be able to handle the data stream. Only mode of operation I've ever seen one a TTY over a modem. Some installations where the TTY was local to the computer (same site/direct connect) added a 'reader control' option where the reader was controlled by the computer. Fairly common on TTYs used with PDP-8 systems. (my 8/I system uses this control) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 1 06:17:35 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:47 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY Message-ID: <199712011217.AA22500@world.std.com> 820k per drive and were essentially 360k drives with 80 instead of 40 tracks. This format combo fell into disuse quickly with poor acceptance due to the general chaos of 5.25" disk formats emerging between 81-86ish. The driver of that chaos was the need for more space and the still very high cost of then 5-40mb hard disks. The availability of media for IBM XT 360k made it a pseudo standard. It was introduced on the early 80s and used on most all DEC systems until the late 80s when the VAXmate broke the mold by used RX33(1.2mb at compatable) and later with 3.5" RX23(1.44)/24(720k) on the 3100 and PC systems. Allison From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Dec 1 07:01:26 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: weekend finds In-Reply-To: <9711301716.AA07140@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <971130104830_261311238@mrin43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971201080126.0068c818@mail.wincom.net> At 09:16 AM 11/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >PC jr. >> Would you like to have another IR keyboard? > >On the subject of PC Jr's, I've always had a silly question: how do you >use more than one in the same room at the same time? Don't the IR >keyboards interfere with each other? Or is there some obvious solution >to this problem? > >I've noticed that some of the Web-TV units also have IR keyboards... >do they have a solution to this problem? > >Tim. > Hi, Tim: On my PC JR there is an optional cable for direct connection. Also some tv-vcr remote controls can be set to control only specific equipment, I suppose that is what they do with the web tv units. Cheers Charlie Fox From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Dec 1 09:28:07 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Wangtek tape drive In-Reply-To: <347FC8F3.26DE@edu.tsai.es> Message-ID: <199712011559.JAA16759@onyx.southwind.net> This drive and controller combination used an MS-dos program called SYTOS. There are many versions of this program, each for a particular hardware setup. Used to be, you could get it from Wangtek, or Everex (I think). Of course, this is all pretty much obsolete now; somebody bound to have a copy somewhere. I think FreeBSD also supports this tape/controller combination. > Roger Ivie wrote: > > > > Neil McNeight wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Sergio Izquierdo Garcia wrote: > > >> I've obtained one streamer tape drive, Wangtek Model 5099EN24. > > >> I have read that Linux can support it directly. > > > > > > It's a SCSI device (at least the ones I've seen are). As long as you have > > > a SCSI card to plug it in to and the drivers for that, you shouldn't need > > > anything else. But then, I've never used one under DOS or Windows either. > > > > The EN drives are _not_ SCSI drives. You will need a controller card for them. > > I aldeady have the controller card. I haven?t the software. > > Thank you all. > -- > Sergio Izquierdo Garcia > mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es > > From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Mon Dec 1 10:43:17 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: PLURI-FORTH for ZX-81/TS-1000? In-Reply-To: <199712010802.AAA23891@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Greetings all! I recently received a ZX-81/TS-1000 (can't tell, the case was gone and the TS-1000 is marked as ZX-81 on the board - doesn't matter anyway..) It has a second set of ROMs, selectable via the channel switch, which comes up as: PLURI-FORTH BY TREE SYSTEMS COPYRIGHT 1983 Does anyone know about this, or, hopefully, have a manual? VLIST tells me the words but a manual would be really nice. I've since mounted the board with homemade keyboard (which I didn't make) in an old Apple II case. Add a few connectors on the case and I'm all set with a nice little 16k Forth machine! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@mcw.edu From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Dec 1 11:39:53 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <3481E3E4.B49@digiweb.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Hans B Pufal wrote: > I have a query about the operation of a KSR 33 TTY when reading paper > tape : does the TTY blindly send the characters read from the tape at 10 > cps or is the tape advance and read triggered by a signal from whatever > th TTY is connected to. I'll guess you mean an ASR33 - the KSR is the keyboard send/recieve and doesn't have the punch or reader. The basic ASR simply sends the tape at 10cps under the control of the manual switch on the reader. Turning this switch on energises a solenoid at the back which releases the transmit clutch. This serialises the bits from the reader, and once every revolution it closes a pair of contacts that trigger a solenoid in the reader to step the tape on by one character According to the Model33 partsbook there's an option that adds a couple of rails in the function box ('stunt box'for people brought up on Creeds :-)) These respond to XON and XOFF and close/open a pair of contacts that are wired into the reader run circuit (you'd need a diagram to see how, since you get auto and manual control IIRC). That gives you a remote reader control in the obvious way. A number of computer manufacturers - I have notes from DEC and Intel - modified ASR33's for their computers. This mod generally consisted of fitting a reed relay in series with the reader trip solenoid and controlling it from the computer's serial I/O interface circuit in some way. Most of these mods were very similar, and were used to single-step the reader when loading a tape. I've also got a Data Dynamics tty which is an ASR33's mechanics in a new case with a Data Dynamics electronic module. This gives RS232 and current loop serial interfaces _and_ single-stepping of the reader both from a button on the panel and remotely. Hope that helps. I can probably find diagrams of the above if you need them. > Hans B. Pufal : -tony From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Mon Dec 1 12:22:44 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: PLURI-FORTH for ZX-81/TS-1000? References: Message-ID: <34830074.2235@ndirect.co.uk> Ronald Kneusel wrote: > > Greetings all! > > I recently received a ZX-81/TS-1000 (can't tell, the case was gone and the > TS-1000 is marked as ZX-81 on the board - doesn't matter anyway..) It DOES matter as the TS/100o is DOUBLE the ram capacity of the ZX-81 (2K) > > It has a second set of ROMs, selectable via the channel switch, which > comes up as: > > PLURI-FORTH BY TREE SYSTEMS > COPYRIGHT 1983 > > Does anyone know about this, or, hopefully, have a manual? VLIST tells me > the words but a manual would be really nice. I've since mounted the board > with homemade keyboard (which I didn't make) in an old Apple II case. Add > a few connectors on the case and I'm all set with a nice little 16k Forth > machine! Unless you have an expansion (which you have not mentioned) you have a nice 1 or 2K Forth machine (if you find the cassette with the program). Good luck! enrico From chemif at mbox.queen.it Mon Dec 1 20:54:37 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <3481E3E4.B49@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19971201205437.120fc732@mbox.queen.it> At 22.08 30/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >I have a query about the operation of a KSR 33 TTY when reading paper >tape : does the TTY blindly send the characters read from the tape at 10 >cps or is the tape advance and read triggered by a signal from whatever >th TTY is connected to. Hi, Hans The teletypes are syncronous machines and the speed must be exactly adjusted in order to correctly send characters. Regards, ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Riccardo Romagnoli Classic Computers, Teletypes and Phonecards collector Forli' - Italy chemif@mbox.queen.it ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Dec 1 14:01:32 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19971201205437.120fc732@mbox.queen.it> from "Riccardo Romagnoli" at Dec 1, 97 08:54:37 pm Message-ID: <9712012001.AA19710@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1329 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971201/1ad5ee17/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 1 16:06:04 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY Message-ID: <199712012206.AA14467@world.std.com> A 68040 -based machine is not that old, maybe a bit under 10 years. What I was wondering is whether or not there is any objective advantage of old machines to new ones. F.E. one could get an old IBM mini (System/3X) for little or no money, but is there anything doable on it that is impossible to do on a W****** 95 machine? In a message dated 97-11-30 21:43:54 EST, you write: << FYI... In ba.market.computers, George Akimov wrote: >Our company has a computer which we would like to donate to college or >school. >The name is "ARETE" Model 1224/160/16 OS - ARIX, ARIXNET Ethernet >2 CPU boards, 68040 -25mhz >64 MB memory >4-800 MB Disks >16 serial ports >240 v.power >Expansion Cabinet 1200/exp >474 MB disk drive 1000/D474 >9-track Tape Drive 1000/9T-HP >9-track Tape/Disk Controller 1000/DT2-9T >Software, incl INFORMIX. >> From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Dec 1 16:27:34 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <199712012206.AA14467@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 1, 97 05:06:04 pm Message-ID: <9712012227.AA16089@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1779 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971201/2cc46e1e/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Dec 1 17:07:11 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: weekend finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971201150536.55cfdf78@ricochet.net> At 09:54 AM 11/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >Most all of the consumer IR controls on the market use the same carrier >frequency and the same modulation technique, and only differ in using >different codes for different functions. Evidently some of your boxes >use the same codes for different functions! I am amazed that there isn't a standard for remotes -- 01 for on/off, 02 for VolUp, 03 for VolDn, etc. But of course, nobody listens to me. >I would guess that the IR keyboards in the PC Jr's pretty much guaranteed >that they would never be adopted by schools. When all you have to do >is point your keyboard at the teacher's PC and type "DEL *.*", any >schools that did buy them must've unloaded them as soon as they could... As I recall, there was much criticism of the IR keyboard since if you were far enough away to make it useful, you were too far away to read the screen. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 1 12:44:19 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Workings of a TTY In-Reply-To: <199712012206.AA14467@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199712012340.SAA03782@mail.cgocable.net> To add to this TTY hubbub, TTY is not dead, stil in use thanks to hearing impaired, deaf and blind users use this very same technologies but in new packaging. The smallest one is flip open cliclet type with 2 row backlight LCD runs on 4 AA's. My personals: I own 3, both Supercom IV's and one PCT (spreaks / understands PCT code, bandot and ASCII codes. This PCT interesting feature that text from callers stored them like a answering machine. Made by French company, gone under sadly) All speak Bandot codes that ASR 33's understand this code too. If you want a cheap, light bandot machine, find one like that and figure a way to adapt the 20 mA loop or RS-232 to it, some of them are direct connect via telephone connection or/and has phone coupler.. Oh, they do still use 8 bit cpu's in all of them. Oh, there is few that do make TTY cards for Peecee's but I heard few are trying to emulate the TTY sounds and speak it via sound card. Suggestion: Try your local deaf club or association and inquire about them if anyone wants a new electronic TTY. Troll From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Dec 1 17:51:23 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971201154949.550fb9f0@ricochet.net> At 05:26 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >machines to new ones. F.E. one could get an old IBM mini (System/3X) for >little or no money, but is there anything doable on it that is impossible to >do on a W****** 95 machine? You can't heat your house with a Wintel box. 8^) But seriously, how about supporting multiple users? I dunno much about IBM's, but an HP3000 (like my Micro3000) can handle up to 8 users (Has 16 ports, iirc, but after 6-8 users, the system gets pretty slow.) I have yet to find a PC database and development environment that could match what's available (Image/KSAM, Cobol, Powerhouse, Qedit, MPEX, etc.) on the 3000. (Though, admittedly, I haven't looked all that hard.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Mon Dec 1 18:41:41 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Off-the-wall question In-Reply-To: <199712012340.SAA03782@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: Ok, ok... I know this really doesn't pertain to classics... but, then again, it _kind_ of does. I have a problem with Windows 3.11(for Workgroups) that I am trying to figure out. Normally, in 3.11, you can bring up a task list by hitting cntrol-Esc. Or, switch between tasks/applications by hitting cntrl-tab. I can do the latter. But, recently for some reason I can not do the aforementioned task. Does anyone know why this might be? Have you had it happen to you? What could I do to get it back to 'normal?" Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Mon Dec 1 20:25:18 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Off-the-wall question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think reply should go to Roger... I just wanted to say thanks for the reply to my original question... and sorry to you all for taking up a little band width. Anyway, taskman.exe wasn't there for some reason (???) but taskman.old was, so I simply renamed it.... and.... it worked!! yippeee! Have any reason how this could have occurred? Thanks again, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > Ok, ok... I know this really doesn't pertain to classics... but, then > again, it _kind_ of does. I have a problem with Windows 3.11(for > Workgroups) that I am trying to figure out. Normally, in 3.11, you can > bring up a task list by hitting cntrol-Esc. Or, switch between > tasks/applications by hitting cntrl-tab. I can do the latter. But, > recently for some reason I can not do the aforementioned task. > > Does anyone know why this might be? Have you had it happen to you? What > could I do to get it back to 'normal?" > > Thanks, > > CORD > > //*=====================================================================++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > || Autograph collector || > ++=====================================================================*// > > > From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon Dec 1 21:12:23 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19971201191223.25e0a29a.in@mail.pressstart.com> Well I finally finished my project and I'm currently enjoying my month off, trying to get done all of the little things that I've been meaning to do for the last 2 years. ====> Warning - shameless plug inserted here By the way, if you own a Sega Saturn and are interested in NASCAR racing - check out NASCAR 98 published by Electronic Arts. The NTSC version should be in the stores any day now. And the English,French, and German PAL version should be in the stores by Christmas. ======== end plug ============ Any way, I have some PRELIMINARY results from my first little research project. For some time now I've been worried that when my last two boxes of 10 sector hard sector mini-floppies were gone, I would not be able to find any more. So, I started toying with the idea that I could make my own floppies. Last weekend, using a 1/8" paper punch, I changed 3 DSDD soft sectored floppies into 3 DSDD 10 sector hard sector floppies by punching 10 more holes in them! AND THEY WORKED! So far I've just tested them on an IMSAI and a North Star Horizon using CP/M 1.4 and NSDOS. NO PROBLEMS! (Format,copy disk,boot with new disk) North Star DOS has a DT (Disk Test) command that writes an incrementing pattern to the entire disk starting at track 0 (over and over until you press ctl-C). AGAIN NO PROBLEM! If there is any interest, I can write up a step by step procedure for the List. Also over the weekend I got my S-100 monitor card to working. It uses 74LS04s and LEDs to monitor just about every line on the bus. It also has LEDs for each of the 3 voltages and a timer circuit that flashes a set of LEDs to show if the clock is running. Now I can start checking out some those systems that have been sitting around waiting to be tested. On the lighter side- Here is a couple of the requests that I've received since my museum has been "discovered". "did coleco make a toy called a superstar guitar in 79 or 80? The spokesman for the toy was wolfman jack. Thanks. rz" "Mr. Coward I recently came into possesion of a hand held scanner Model: Realistic Pro-31/HiLo It seems i have no info that would tell me how to use, let alone find someone that knows..about this make of scanner.. do you know if radio shack has a web site,or mabey realistic.. thanks for your time..Ray Coupal." "Hi there Because of non serious Atari business in Norway ,We (my friends and I ) want to present Atari in Norway again .Could you please help us getting contacted with the right manufactor/producer or other responsible for Atari computing. Please reply (by e-mail )" "Dear Mr. Coward: Several years ago I purchased several Dr. Seuss stuffed toys, namely the Cat in the Hat, Little Cat in the Hat and the Grinch. The tag on the toys says manufactured by Coleco Industries. Do you have any idea if these are still available or where I might be able to purchase them? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated." This last one, I was able to find one being auctioned off at EBAY. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 1 21:22:37 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system References: <971201172646_949733646@mrin44.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <34837EFD.D23A19F3@cnct.com> Zeus334@aol.com wrote: > > A 68040 -based machine is not that old, maybe a bit under 10 years. What I > was wondering is whether or not there is any objective advantage of old > machines to new ones. F.E. one could get an old IBM mini (System/3X) for > little or no money, but is there anything doable on it that is impossible to > do on a W****** 95 machine? Sure. On a TRS-80 Model 16 I can word process with Scripsit-16, which isn't as loaded with useless features as _every_ current Windoze package and use filePro-16 which is IMAO superior to any SuQaL (pronounce it phonetically) database system around. Of course, I don't presently OWN a Model 16, as back in 1989 I wound up scrapping the two the power company had murdered (I was moving), but I _do_ have a Tandy 6000 which happens to run those just fine. If anybody on this list has copies of the original installation media and/or manuals, I'd love to get them -- I'm dependent on backups of a senile hard disk and self-created install media that I _think_ will work. (It helps that I started my education of the Unix (Xenix) shell language by studying the original installation scripts as a Radio Shack tech support rep.) But I'm not sure. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 1 21:34:28 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:48 2005 Subject: weekend finds References: <1.5.4.16.19971201150536.55cfdf78@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <348381C4.379D5F4@cnct.com> Uncle Roger wrote: > I am amazed that there isn't a standard for remotes -- 01 for on/off, 02 for > VolUp, 03 for VolDn, etc. But of course, nobody listens to me. I've got two VCRs on top of the television. They are different brands for what might seem to be an obvious reason. And the TV is a third brand. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Dec 1 21:41:46 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: weekend finds Message-ID: <01bcfed4$36d0b2a0$6b62bcc1@photze> >As I recall, there was much criticism of the IR keyboard since if you were >far enough away to make it useful, you were too far away to read the screen. See what I mean, about the IR keyboards, they were a mistake. Possibly the downfall of the jr. I mean, new sub-$1000 PCs don't try to press new technologies, but use old ones; which is why they're staying around; and getting popular. Does anyone remember how much the IR keyboard cost? Tim D. Hotze From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 1 21:51:42 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks References: <19971201191223.25e0a29a.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <348385CE.25928EC2@cnct.com> Doug Coward wrote: > Any way, I have some PRELIMINARY results from my first little research project. > For some time now I've been worried that when my last two boxes of 10 sector > hard sector mini-floppies were gone, I would not be able to find any more. > So, I started toying with the idea that I could make my own floppies. > Last weekend, using a 1/8" paper punch, I changed 3 DSDD soft sectored floppies > into 3 DSDD 10 sector hard sector floppies by punching 10 more holes in them! > AND THEY WORKED! > So far I've just tested them on an IMSAI and a North Star Horizon using CP/M > 1.4 and NSDOS. NO PROBLEMS! (Format,copy disk,boot with new disk) > North Star DOS has a DT (Disk Test) command that writes an incrementing pattern > to the entire disk starting at track 0 (over and over until you press ctl-C). > AGAIN NO PROBLEM! So where the Hell do you find a 1/8" paper punch? The only ones I find seem to be closer to 3/16" or 1/4". Like the ones I used back when I thought it was practical to flip TRS-80 diskettes. (It wasn't. They worked -- for a while, especially when diskettes were $20+ per ten.) -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 1 21:59:13 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Off-the-wall question References: Message-ID: <34838791.EB477FC8@cnct.com> Cord Coslor wrote: > > I think reply should go to Roger... I just wanted to say thanks for the > reply to my original question... and sorry to you all for taking up a > little band width. Anyway, taskman.exe wasn't there for some reason (???) > but taskman.old was, so I simply renamed it.... and.... it worked!! > yippeee! > > Have any reason how this could have occurred? Windows "upgrades" abort all the time, leaving all sorts of messes in place. If you check your memory, you'll probably find something along those lines. Don't worry, it happens with other operating systems. When I upgrade Linux, it's always important to save several configuration files. Then again, most commercial Linux documentation and even more non-commercial Linux documentation tell me which ones. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 1 22:01:42 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: weekend finds References: <01bcfed4$36d0b2a0$6b62bcc1@photze> Message-ID: <34838826.402028DD@cnct.com> Hotze wrote: > > >As I recall, there was much criticism of the IR keyboard since if you were > >far enough away to make it useful, you were too far away to read the > screen. > See what I mean, about the IR keyboards, they were a mistake. Possibly the > downfall of the jr. I mean, new sub-$1000 PCs don't try to press new > technologies, but use old ones; which is why they're staying around; and > getting popular. Does anyone remember how much the IR keyboard cost? > Tim D. Hotze It was _standard_. The cable was extra. To connect the IR keyboard to the CPU. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From engine at chac.org Mon Dec 1 23:49:35 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Secondary benefits In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971201154949.550fb9f0@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971201214935.00fde600@pop.batnet.com> At 17:51 12/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >You can't heat your house with a Wintel box. 8^) It's all in your sense of proportion. Two Wintel boxes heat my walk-in closet nicely -- only when it's downright chilly do I need to turn on the SE/30. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From gram at cnct.com Tue Dec 2 00:39:19 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Secondary benefits References: <3.0.5.32.19971201214935.00fde600@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3483AD17.FF9ED067@cnct.com> Kip Crosby wrote: > > At 17:51 12/1/97 -0600, you wrote: > >You can't heat your house with a Wintel box. 8^) > > It's all in your sense of proportion. Two Wintel boxes heat my walk-in > closet nicely -- only when it's downright chilly do I need to turn on the > SE/30. Hmm. My SE/30 doesn't heat my basement alcove worth a damn. I have to fire the TRS-80 Mod 2, the Tandy 6000 and the Sun 4/360 to get the frost off the pumpkin, the Mod 4p and the Color Computers are no help at all. I _gotta_ get me a good mini or two. -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 1 22:30:11 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system Message-ID: <199712020430.AA12908@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I suspect that Riccardo was talking about non-Teletype-of-Skokie-Illinois > equipment which had an entirely different adjustment procedure. I > have no proof of this except for the fact that he's nowhere near > Skokie Illinois :-) Several comments related to European power have > led me to believe that 20-30 years ago, their power grid didn't necessarily > have the rock-stable frequency characteristics that many of us in > North America take for granted, so perhaps some European machines don't > use synchronous motors with gear sets, but instead allow the speed to > be adjusted. If someone familiar with European TTY's would educate me > about exactly what Riccardo was talking about, I would greatly appreciate it! Creed machines (both teleprinters and paper tape readers, etc) used Commutator motors in many of there machines (certainly up to the 7E). These had a mechanical governor on the end of the motor spindle - a weighted spring that operated a pair of contacts when it was up to speed. There's a large power resistor in parallel with the contacts. AC machines tended to have series-wound motors with the governor in series with the whole thing. This flavour has contacts that open when up to speed. DC machines tended to have shunt wound motors with the governor in series with the field only. The contacts closed (increasing the field current) when up to speed to slow down the motor. The Creed 444 has an induction motor of some kind, and I think no governor. It's been a while since I opened the motor box in that machine, though I've seen an Olivetti TE300 which seemed to have a capacitor-run induction motor with a governor on the spindle. I guess it was wired in series with the entire motor - it certainly was not a simple starting contact since there was as speed adjustment screw on it. Adjusting Creeds is an entertainment. The spring tension screw is on the governor itself - and it's connected to one of the contacts. Thus you can't adjust it when running, and if you have any sense you pull out the mains plug when tweaking it. Single-pole mains switches always end up in the neutral wire by murphy's law, you see... There's some info on this in the RSGB Teleprinter Handbook if you can find a copy of that. Hope the above helps. > Tim. > -tony From doug at the-one.com Tue Dec 2 09:48:04 1997 From: doug at the-one.com (Doug Rich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <348385CE.25928EC2@cnct.com> References: <19971201191223.25e0a29a.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202084804.006b01dc@mail.wco.com> I have many hundreds of 10 sector disks. Most have programs on them, but they are not of much use. I could help out with a few if someone is in great need. Doug At 10:51 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >Doug Coward wrote: > >> Any way, I have some PRELIMINARY results from my first little research project. >> For some time now I've been worried that when my last two boxes of 10 sector >> hard sector mini-floppies were gone, I would not be able to find any more. >> So, I started toying with the idea that I could make my own floppies. >> Last weekend, using a 1/8" paper punch, I changed 3 DSDD soft sectored floppies >> into 3 DSDD 10 sector hard sector floppies by punching 10 more holes in them! >> AND THEY WORKED! >> So far I've just tested them on an IMSAI and a North Star Horizon using CP/M >> 1.4 and NSDOS. NO PROBLEMS! (Format,copy disk,boot with new disk) >> North Star DOS has a DT (Disk Test) command that writes an incrementing pattern >> to the entire disk starting at track 0 (over and over until you press ctl-C). >> AGAIN NO PROBLEM! > >So where the Hell do you find a 1/8" paper punch? The only ones I find >seem to be closer to 3/16" or 1/4". Like the ones I used back when I >thought it was practical to flip TRS-80 diskettes. (It wasn't. They >worked -- for a while, especially when diskettes were $20+ per ten.) >-- >Ward Griffiths >"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails >of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 2 10:12:45 1997 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: weekend finds Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971202101245.00af3890@pc> Uncle Roger wrote: >I am amazed that there isn't a standard for remotes -- 01 for on/off, 02 for >VolUp, 03 for VolDn, etc. But of course, nobody listens to me. Hmm. I've got seven remotes and devices here on my desk, and I'm glad they don't speak the same symbols. I wish they had fewer standards and more configurable uniqueness, so I could run two of the same devices each with their own remote. :-) - John www.threedee.com/jcm From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 2 10:49:36 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari Message-ID: <971202114935_1982079353@mrin79> While doing my usual thrift store rounds, i bought an atari 65XE, xmm801 printer, two disk drives, and joysticks, all for five bucks! a little surface cleaning, and it will look like brand new. anyone know compatibility on this? it uses the 1050 disk drives, which makes me think it's more or less compatible with an 800xl, since it can run dos 2-3. i'm also missing the main computer power supply, although i did get two for the drives. if anyone has a copy of atari dos 2, 2.5 or 3, i'd need a copy mailed to me since i'd have no other way of acquiring it. david From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Dec 2 11:25:00 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <348385CE.25928EC2@cnct.com> References: <19971201191223.25e0a29a.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202122500.009607c0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Ward Donald Griffiths III said: >So where the Hell do you find a 1/8" paper punch? The only ones I find >seem to be closer to 3/16" or 1/4". Go to your nearest decent office supply store. My wife and I used to make handmade crafts (stuffed animals, candles, etc.) and as I worked at a print shop / office supply shop, I designed and printed some "Made in the USA" and "Made in Michigan" tags for sale that were only 2" x 2". Obviously a 1/4" punch would've obliterated the little cards, so I asked my friend in charge of the office supply part if there was anything smaller, and for $2 or $3 more, I had a top-quality 1/8" hand punch which worked perfect for the tags. BTW, so this doesn't get too far out of round, does anybody need some not-quite-finished Point of Sale software for a Tandy 200? I wrote some in basic (for our craft business) that would output the datafiles to Mulitplan, dBase or any spreadsheet that handled SYLK or CSV files. It even had the basic workings of an inventory infrastructure, and ran fine in 24K! Worked great with my portable Canon BJ10ex inkjet printer... HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Dec 2 11:27:22 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari In-Reply-To: <971202114935_1982079353@mrin79> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202122722.0099da00@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, SUPRDAVE@aol.com said: >While doing my usual thrift store rounds, i bought an atari 65XE, xmm801 >printer, two disk drives, and joysticks, all for five bucks! a little surface >cleaning, and it will look like brand new. anyone know compatibility on this? >it uses the 1050 disk drives, which makes me think it's more or less >compatible with an 800xl, since it can run dos 2-3. i'm also missing the main >computer power supply, although i did get two for the drives. if anyone has a >copy of atari dos 2, 2.5 or 3, i'd need a copy mailed to me since i'd have no >other way of acquiring it. It's 800xl compatible _if_ you expand the memory, which IIRC was 64K standard in the 65xe but 128K (or bigger...) in the 800xl. However, you shouldn't have any problem running dos 2.5, which I own and can make you copies for if you don't mind waiting for the weekend... as I don't have time tor re-assemble my 800 until then. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Dec 2 11:36:15 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <199712020430.AA12908@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Allison J Parent said: > < A 68040 -based machine is not that old, maybe a bit under 10 years. What I > < was wondering is whether or not there is any objective advantage of old > < machines to new ones. F.E. one could get an old IBM mini (System/3X) for > < little or no money, but is there anything doable on it that is impossible t > < do on a W****** 95 machine? >Most older machines that was an expectation. >After all they were expensive. ;-) Funny... My CoCo can support multiple users, and it wasn't expensive at all... $200 for the machine, $300 for the floppy drive, $129 for OS-9 and $50 for the 13" color TV I bought at a garage sale... still cheaper than an single-user IBM box at the time, even when you add the $50.00 RS-232 cart and the $139 multi-pak so I could connect at up to 19200 bps with my Tandy 200... Speaking of my T200, it can turn itself on and off... can a Wintel box do that??? ;-) Classic computers are like Grandparents -- they spoil ya! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Dec 2 13:45:08 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <34876453.2993082@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:36:15 -0500, you said: >Funny... My CoCo can support multiple users, and it wasn't expensive at >all... $xxx for the machine, $yyy for the floppy drive, $zzz for OS-9 and >$ww for the 13" color TV I bought at a garage sale... still cheaper than an >single-user IBM box at the time, even when you add the $ww RS-232 cart >and the $aaa multi-pak so I could connect at up to 19200 bps with my Tandy >200... I'm amazed anyone would/could post prices paid. (I shudder to think) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 2 14:28:00 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system Message-ID: <199712022028.AA27325@world.std.com> <>Funny... My CoCo can support multiple users, and it wasn't expensive at <>all... $xxx for the machine, $yyy for the floppy drive, $zzz for OS-9 = And the point was... I made a subtle point that the older and often smaller machines were not short on capability and also didn't lack for understandability. The later is significant. Far to many of the wintel boxen are undocumented kluges running a million or more lines of incomprehensable code that sometimes works. After that programming something like PDP-8 with it's smaller memory and very small instruction set suggest getting to the concise solution was essential. Same so for the early micros were 64k of ram and an instruction set that could be remembered. Often the only difference was speed. Allison From Zeus334 at aol.com Tue Dec 2 15:38:07 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system Message-ID: <971202163806_1448681479@mrin43.mail.aol.com> Recent Wintel machines can turn themselves on and off, but anyway. I repeatedly become interested in the CoCo, and then lose interest again. What I wonder is this: I suppose I could find the package below for a relatively low price. But, I have two problems with those old home machines: they use composite monitors, and they are usually 320X240. solutions? Speaking of composites, I have an IBM CGA card that has a flicker whenever I type something. Solutions? In a message dated 97-12-02 13:11:37 EST, you write: << Funny... My CoCo can support multiple users, and it wasn't expensive at all... $200 for the machine, $300 for the floppy drive, $129 for OS-9 and $50 for the 13" color TV I bought at a garage sale... still cheaper than an single-user IBM box at the time, even when you add the $50.00 RS-232 cart and the $139 multi-pak so I could connect at up to 19200 bps with my Tandy 200... Speaking of my T200, it can turn itself on and off... can a Wintel box do that??? ;-) >> From william at ans.net Tue Dec 2 15:55:42 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <971202163806_1448681479@mrin43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > Recent Wintel machines can turn themselves on and off, but anyway. _Real_ computers are never meant to be turned off! (probably for fear that they may not come back up!) William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Dec 2 11:19:42 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <971202163806_1448681479@mrin43.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <199712022215.RAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> > Recent Wintel machines can turn themselves on and off, but anyway. I > repeatedly become interested in the CoCo, and then lose interest again. What > I wonder is this: I suppose I could find the package below for a relatively > low price. But, I have two problems with those old home machines: they use > composite monitors, and they are usually 320X240. solutions? Speaking of > composites, I have an IBM CGA card that has a flicker whenever I type > something. Solutions? That is true of ATX based motherboards with supporting OS using all features. About your CGA card, it have this caused by direct access to video RAM during video scan, sometime causes "snowing". It use IRQ to disable this part by doing all memory work during flyback retrace but makes this more slower. But if you change the card for EGA or 3rd party EGA setup to use EGA and below and also set the card to drive CGA display. Fast and no snow. Many old ATI wonder series has dual 15 and 9 pin ports, you can also use this in the XT bus and can drive anything up to EGA emulation and nice feature some of them has bus mouse on it. Try ET1000 and ET2000 they are fastest old video cards and no snow but I have yet to see one, Yes I have seen ET3000 and up. Snip! Troll From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Dec 2 17:55:02 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Found on comp.sys.intel Message-ID: <008501bcff7e$30061b40$9a722599@office1> Found the following: >>I have a (more than) complete Intel ISIS-II development system for sale. I got it from work. We used it to develope 8051 projects. I have a few emulators and EPROM programmers that go with it. Cost $100. You pay shipping costs. Please E-mail me at DSevy2@aol.com if you are interested.<< Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Dec 2 18:23:54 1997 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Found on comp.sys.intel In-Reply-To: <008501bcff7e$30061b40$9a722599@office1> Message-ID: Is the system in a white ore Blue case? ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Found the following: > > >>I have a (more than) complete Intel ISIS-II development system for sale. > I got > it from work. We used it to develope 8051 projects. I have a few emulators > and EPROM programmers that go with it. Cost $100. You pay shipping costs. > Please E-mail me at DSevy2@aol.com if you are interested.<< > > > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > ============================================ > > > > > > From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 2 18:35:22 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3489a878.5109953@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:36:15 -0500, Roger wrote: % %Speaking of my T200, it can turn itself on and off... can a Wintel box do %that??? ;-) I hate to waste bandwidth, but : Yes, a modern Wintel box can turn itself off. Notebooks running W95 can shut themselves down. Desktops with ATX motherboards and associated ATX-type power supplies can do the same. Quite useful, considering the amount of time Win95 takes to shut itself down : you start the shutdown process and go off without having to wait... Ben Boot from Iomega Zip drives! http://www.blueskyinnovations.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Dec 2 13:51:45 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <3489a878.5109953@smtp.ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <199712030048.TAA29733@mail.cgocable.net> > I hate to waste bandwidth, but : > > Yes, a modern Wintel box can turn itself off. Notebooks running W95 > can shut themselves down. Desktops with ATX motherboards and > associated ATX-type power supplies can do the same. Quite useful, > considering the amount of time Win95 takes to shut itself down : you > start the shutdown process and go off without having to wait... > > Ben > > Boot from Iomega Zip drives! > http://www.blueskyinnovations.com > (!!) Baddie boy to speak new stuff here. :)) Well, true, I should have say so but with laptops it's mixed lot of that does and some that does not. Speed of the shutdown depends on how good users knowledge keeps their stuff top performing, I have seen few that is considered slow machine shut down so rapid that you do not have a chance to see the "waiting..." I want to learn about this too! Troll From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 2 20:38:55 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: weekend finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971202183719.54aff620@mail.sinasohn.com> At 10:12 AM 12/2/97 -0600, you wrote: >>I am amazed that there isn't a standard for remotes -- 01 for on/off, 02 for > >Hmm. I've got seven remotes and devices here on my desk, and I'm glad >they don't speak the same symbols. I wish they had fewer standards >and more configurable uniqueness, so I could run two of the same >devices each with their own remote. :-) Okay, good point. So what we need is channels, like MIDI gear (and maybe Device ID's, like SCSI.) Hmmm... But then we're getting too complicated for the average bozo (comment about flashing 12:00 omitted.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 2 20:38:58 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971202183722.564fe638@mail.sinasohn.com> At 11:49 AM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >While doing my usual thrift store rounds, i bought an atari 65XE, xmm801 The Atari 65XE is part of the same generation of 8-bit Atari computers as the 130XE someone mention the other day. Compatible with the 400/800, 600XL/800XL/1200XL, and 130XE/130XEG. IIRC, the 130XE has 128K ram, the 65XE had 64K? I'm not sure, but the 65XE may be a bit of a rarity; I don't remember them being sold much. Check with some of the atari sites on the web. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 2 20:39:01 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971202183725.564febf0@mail.sinasohn.com> At 12:27 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >It's 800xl compatible _if_ you expand the memory, which IIRC was 64K >standard in the 65xe but 128K (or bigger...) in the 800xl. However, you I'm pretty sure the 800XL was 64K. The original 800 was 16K standard, expandable to 48K. The 400 was 16K I think. The 600XL was 16K and not expandable unless you had the expansion box (saw one once). The 1200XL might be 128K, but I'm not sure. P.S., this doesn't include 3rd party stuff. I've seen 1200XL's with the 6502-compatible 16-bit processors with internal hard drives hooked up to a Pentium being used as a CD-ROM drive. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 2 20:39:04 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971202183727.54afd56e@mail.sinasohn.com> At 12:36 PM 12/2/97 -0500, you wrote: >Speaking of my T200, it can turn itself on and off... can a Wintel box do >that??? ;-) Sure, most computers can... All you need is a good X10 setup... 8^) (Actually, I'd love to be able to build a box that would switch on my voicemail system after X rings. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 2 20:47:07 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks Message-ID: <199712030351.TAA09923@mx4.u.washington.edu> > So where the Hell do you find a 1/8" paper punch? The only ones I find > seem to be closer to 3/16" or 1/4". Like the ones I used back when I > thought it was practical to flip TRS-80 diskettes. (It wasn't. They > worked -- for a while, especially when diskettes were $20+ per ten.) Small dia. hammered punches, called "arch punches" (try General Tool Co.) might be good. Any competent machinist should be able to convert a astandard paper punch into a smaller one by turning down the punch and fitting a bushing into the die. manney@nwohio.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 2 23:27:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Hard sectored disks Message-ID: <199712030527.AA11179@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3483B0EC.4349@digiweb.com> Thanks to all that responded and to those who (gently) pointed out my ignorance of the difference between a KSR and an ASR. This list is such a good learning tool. The reason I was asking was that I am in the midst of a project to write an emulator package in Java which is flexible enough to support many different types of CPU's. I have CPU emulators for 6809, 6502, Varian 620/i almost done and some others partially started e.g XDS 930. My first I/O device is an ASR 33, and that now works fine with my Varian 620/i emulator, I can toggle in the bootstrap on the emulated console and read in (garbage) "tapes" emulated by binary files. If anyone has any 620/i paper tape software I would be happy to pay shipping costs, and return it when I have copied it. Anyone who wants to try out my emulator please Email me. It is still a little rough and needs JDK 1.1.4 support so won't run on all the "standard" browsers yet but runs fine although slowly as a Java application. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From pjoules at enterprise.net Wed Dec 3 05:44:43 1997 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> <34876453.2993082@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3485462B.616BCB76@enterprise.net> Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:36:15 -0500, you said: > > I'm amazed anyone would/could post prices paid. (I shudder to think) Why not post either original or current prices? I find it interesting to see what things cost new and what the 'going rate' is for them now and don't see any harm in such things being posted. Regards Pete From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Dec 3 08:07:40 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Depreciation (was: Donation - old mainframe Unix system) In-Reply-To: <3485462B.616BCB76@enterprise.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> <34876453.2993082@mail.swbell.net> <3485462B.616BCB76@enterprise.net> Message-ID: <34856609.2301247@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:44:43 +0000, you said: >> I'm amazed anyone would/could post prices paid. (I shudder to think) > >Why not post either original or current prices? I find it interesting to >see what things cost new and what the 'going rate' is for them now and >don't see any harm in such things being posted. No, my point was quite the opposite; it embarrasses me to see how little my "investments" are worth now. (Agreed, they're not really investments as such) I remember, in about 1982/3, buying two Teac 360KB drives for $160 each and people at work were amazed that I got such a great deal! (I still have/use them) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Wed Dec 3 09:43:51 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Is anything wrong with the server? Message-ID: This is basically a test to see if I am still subscribed, or if there are other problems with the list. I haven't received any messages for a couple of days, and was curious. How can I contact the list 'grunt' to see if I am still on, to find out the subscriber list, etc., etc. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Wed Dec 3 09:44:57 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Is anything wrong with the server? Message-ID: ate: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:43:51 -0600 (CST) From: Cord Coslor To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: Is anything wrong with the server? This is basically a test to see if I am still subscribed, or if there are other problems with the list. I haven't received any messages for a couple of days, and was curious. How can I contact the list 'grunt' to see if I am still on, to find out the subscriber list, etc., etc. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From dcoward at pressstart.com Wed Dec 3 09:59:32 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Making hard sectored disks Message-ID: <19971203075932.04414f65.in@mail.pressstart.com> Here is the instructions for making the disks. Keep in mind as you read this that one of my personal mottos is that if I could write I'd be a writer. Some of the directions are clearer if you are actually doing it as you read them. .............. CUT HERE ................................. PROCEDURE FOR CREATING HARD SECTORED FLOPPY DISKS FROM SOFT SECTORED FLOPPY DISKS by Doug Coward For some time now I've thought about the possiblity of creating my own hard sectored mini-floppies so that I would not have to rely on being able to find disks at surplus and thrift shops as they became more and more scarce. It seem to me that the only difference between a hard sectored disk and a soft sectored disk should be the number of index holes. So I tried making 3 disks and they worked. So far this technique has only been used to create double density 10 sector hard sector disks but there is no reason I can think of that would keep this same technique from working to create single density or 16 sector disks. Currently, I don't own a Wang or any other computer that would use a hard sectored 8" diskette, so I will not be able to test this procedure on the larger diskettes. When I have more time, I plan to try and use the pieces of an old floppy disk drive to build a "punching gig" to make the process of punching the index holes easier. MATERIALS NEEDED 1 1/8" round hand operated paper punch 1 Soft sectored 5 1/4" floppy disk 1 Hard sectored 5 1/4" floppy disk to use as a template. 1 Plain piece of white paper 2 Pieces of 1/2" wide x 1/2" long clear adhesive tape. The normal index holes from my measurements appear to be between 3/32" and 4/32". So I decided to use a 1/8" punch which will make the holes oversize by about 1/64" but should not make any great difference. Most paper punches are 1/4" so you will need to go to a large office supply store to find this punch (like Office Max). The punch I purchased had a plastic piece over the "female" jaw of the punch to catch the material punched out. This I removed so that I could see through the "female" jaw of the punch to center the punch on the index hole. PROCEDURE The difficult part of punching the disk is guaranteeing the placement of the holes. That is why I use a hard sectored disk as a template. 1. With the two pieces of tape ready, take and rotate each diskette in its jacket until an index hole is visible in the center of the index hole aperture in the jacket. 2. Place the hard sectored disk on top of the soft sectored disk so that the two visible index holes line up. 3. While holding the diskettes together, insert 3 finger tips of one hand through the hub opening applying a slight outward pressure to align the hubs of the two disks. If the index holes are not aligned go back to step 1. If they are slightly out of alignment use the point of a pin or any object that can be inserted through the two index holes and wiggled to realign the index holes. 4. With the hubs and the index holes aligned, firmly pinch together the two diskettes with your other hand, at the hub. Remove your 3 fingers out of the hub. 5. While still pinching the diskettes together, apply 1 piece of tape to the diskettes at the hub so that the tape wraps around through the hub opening and sticks to both diskettes BUT NOT THEIR JACKETS. Apply the other piece of tape across the hub opening from the first piece of tape in the same manner. 6. At this point the two diskettes should have their hub openings and one index hole perfectly aligned. Also they should be securely taped together but still be able to rotate in their jackets. It's important that the jackets be more or less aligned with each other while punching the holes or you can finish with some extra holes in the "new" diskette's jacket. You can, if you need to, use a small piece of tape across the edge of the two jackets in one corner to keep them aligned. 7. Now you're ready to punch some holes. Holding the two diskette jackets in one corner with one hand, insert 2 fingers of the other hand into the hub opening and rotate the diskettes until an index hole in the top diskette (the hard sector template disk) appears in the center of the index hole aperture of the jacket. Hold the diskettes "template disk up" so that the index hole aperture is on the other side of the hub opening from you (away from you). 8. Insert the piece of plain white paper between the diskettes from the side closest to the index aperture until you can see the paper through the index hole in the diskette. This is to make the index hole more visible. 9. Now with the jackets aligned, and the index hole (with the paper visible) in the center of the index aperture, insert the paper punch through the hub opening so that the "female" jaw is positioned above the index hole and the "male" jaw positioned below the index hole. You will have to bend the diskettes slightly to get a clean punch. As you slowly close the jaws of the paper punch you will be able to sight through the "female" part of the punch and line up the punch exactly to the existing index hole. This is where the plain white paper really helps to see that index hole. PUNCH THE HOLE. 10. Repeat steps 7,8,9 until you have punched all of the holes. Remember to keep rotating the diskettes in the same direction after punching each hole. Reposition the paper before punching each hole. When done, peel the tape off carefully, most diskettes today don't have a hub reinforcement ring and the hub opening can be stretched or distorted. If you are careful the template disk over and over again. .............. CUT HERE ................................. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From engine at chac.org Wed Dec 3 10:21:53 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Depreciation In-Reply-To: <34856609.2301247@mail.swbell.net> References: <3485462B.616BCB76@enterprise.net> <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971203082153.00fd1d40@pop.batnet.com> At 14:07 12/3/97 GMT, Barry Peterson wrote: >No, my point was quite the opposite; it embarrasses me to see how >little my "investments" are worth now..... >I remember, in about 1982/3, buying two Teac >360KB drives for $160 each and people at work were amazed that I >got such a great deal! (I still have/use them) In the spring of 1984, I ran out of hard disk space for the first time. My 12MB full-height Rodime was still fine, but I agonized over needing a bigger drive and finally went back to the vendor who had sold me the computer. He gave me a great deal on a Seagate ST4026, which formatted to 24MB on that machine; list on the drive was $3175, but he took the Rodime and $1875 cash. I still have that drive and, while I haven't booted it in years, I'm sure it would. At about the same time, I urgently needed some DSQD (770K on that computer) 5.25 diskettes. From my computer supplier, a box of ten would have been $85, but he was out of stock, so I had to go to the ONE office supply store in San Francisco that stocked them, and pay $110. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 3 11:35:54 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Transferring files. 11/23+ and the PC. Message-ID: I have a working harddisk, the Fuzzball source, and RT-11SJ. Now to combine them. I am trying to transfer KSERVE to the PDP so I can use it. But it won't take an ASCII transfer, I overrun the buffer. VTCOM and KERMIT don't work, they need an XM monitor. Is there a way to tell RT11 to increase the buffer size? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Dec 3 12:00:13 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Transferring files. 11/23+ and the PC. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 3, 97 11:35:54 am Message-ID: <9712031800.AA24432@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1963 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971203/b4ef19a0/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 3 14:15:13 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Making hard sectored disks In-Reply-To: <19971203075932.04414f65.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Doug Coward wrote: > Here is the instructions for making the disks. > Keep in mind as you read this that one of my personal mottos > is that if I could write I'd be a writer. > Some of the directions are clearer if you are actually doing > it as you read them. > > .............. CUT HERE ................................. > > PROCEDURE FOR CREATING HARD SECTORED FLOPPY > DISKS FROM SOFT SECTORED FLOPPY DISKS > by Doug Coward > > For some time now I've thought about the possiblity of > creating my own hard sectored mini-floppies so that I > would not have to rely on being able to find disks at > surplus and thrift shops as they became more and more > scarce. It seem to me that the only difference between > a hard sectored disk and a soft sectored disk should be > the number of index holes. So I tried making 3 disks > and they worked. > So far this technique has only been used to create double > density 10 sector hard sector disks but there is no reason > I can think of that would keep this same technique from > working to create single density or 16 sector disks. > Currently, I don't own a Wang or any other computer that > would use a hard sectored 8" diskette, so I will not be > able to test this procedure on the larger diskettes. When > I have more time, I plan to try and use the pieces of an > old floppy disk drive to build a "punching gig" to make > the process of punching the index holes easier. > > MATERIALS NEEDED > 1 1/8" round hand operated paper punch > 1 Soft sectored 5 1/4" floppy disk > 1 Hard sectored 5 1/4" floppy disk to use as a template. > 1 Plain piece of white paper > 2 Pieces of 1/2" wide x 1/2" long clear adhesive tape. > > The normal index holes from my measurements appear to be > between 3/32" and 4/32". So I decided to use a 1/8" punch > which will make the holes oversize by about 1/64" but > should not make any great difference. Most paper punches > are 1/4" so you will need to go to a large office supply > store to find this punch (like Office Max). The punch I > purchased had a plastic piece over the "female" jaw of the > punch to catch the material punched out. This I removed so > that I could see through the "female" jaw of the punch to > center the punch on the index hole. > > PROCEDURE > The difficult part of punching the disk is guaranteeing > the placement of the holes. That is why I use a hard sectored > disk as a template. > > 1. With the two pieces of tape ready, take and rotate each > diskette in its jacket until an index hole is visible > in the center of the index hole aperture in the jacket. > 2. Place the hard sectored disk on top of the soft sectored > disk so that the two visible index holes line up. > 3. While holding the diskettes together, insert 3 finger tips > of one hand through the hub opening applying a slight > outward pressure to align the hubs of the two disks. > If the index holes are not aligned > go back to step 1. If they are slightly out of alignment > use the point of a pin or any object that can be inserted > through the two index holes and wiggled to realign the > index holes. > 4. With the hubs and the index holes aligned, firmly pinch > together the two diskettes with your other hand, at the > hub. Remove your 3 fingers out of the hub. > 5. While still pinching the diskettes together, apply 1 piece > of tape to the diskettes at the hub so that the tape > wraps around through the hub opening and sticks to both > diskettes BUT NOT THEIR JACKETS. Apply the other piece > of tape across the hub opening from the first piece of > tape in the same manner. > 6. At this point the two diskettes should have their hub > openings and one index hole perfectly aligned. Also > they should be securely taped together but still be able > to rotate in their jackets. It's important that the > jackets be more or less aligned with each other while > punching the holes or you can finish with some extra > holes in the "new" diskette's jacket. You can, if you > need to, use a small piece of tape across the edge of > the two jackets in one corner to keep them aligned. > 7. Now you're ready to punch some holes. Holding the two > diskette jackets in one corner with one hand, insert > 2 fingers of the other hand into the hub opening and > rotate the diskettes until an index hole in the top > diskette (the hard sector template disk) appears in > the center of the index hole aperture of the jacket. > Hold the diskettes "template disk up" so that the > index hole aperture is on the other side of the hub > opening from you (away from you). > 8. Insert the piece of plain white paper between the > diskettes from the side closest to the index aperture > until you can see the paper through the index hole in > the diskette. This is to make the index hole more visible. > 9. Now with the jackets aligned, and the index hole (with the > paper visible) in the center of the index aperture, insert > the paper punch through the hub opening so that the > "female" jaw is positioned above the index hole and the > "male" jaw positioned below the index hole. You will > have to bend the diskettes slightly to get a clean punch. > As you slowly close the jaws of the paper punch you > will be able to sight through the "female" part of the > punch and line up the punch exactly to the existing index hole. > This is where the plain white paper really helps to see > that index hole. > PUNCH THE HOLE. > 10. Repeat steps 7,8,9 until you have punched all of the holes. > Remember to keep rotating the diskettes in the same direction > after punching each hole. > Reposition the paper before punching each hole. When done, > peel the tape off carefully, most diskettes today don't > have a hub reinforcement ring and the hub opening can > be stretched or distorted. If you are careful the template > disk over and over again. > > .............. CUT HERE ................................. > After you have created your first hard sector 'replica' you have enlarged the sector holes in the template to .125 inch. Would it not be easier for subsequent 'replicas' to insert the punch into the enlarged hole in the template rather than eyeballing the location? - don > > ========================================= > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com > Senior Software Engineer > Press Start Inc. > Sunnyvale,CA > > Curator > Museum of Personal Computing Machinery > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum > ========================================= > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 3 14:19:57 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Franklin Ace500 ??? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971203151957.00688660@mail.wincom.net> I just got a Franklin Ace 500 copy of Apple ][C, no documentation or power supply. Would anyone have the pin outs and voltages of the seven pin DIN power connector? Thanks Charlie Fox From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Dec 3 14:30:52 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! Message-ID: <3485c0da.190181386@mail.boeing.com> ATTN: Classic Computer Rescue Crewmembers in the Dover, Delaware area! Take note of this missive I found on Usenet. If I were ANYwhere near the east coast, I'd already have visited the place. This is a terrific opportunity for those of you who want to get your hands dirty on DEC hardware to do it. And, if anyone goes down there and finds an M7552 module (RRD50 controller), please snare it for me! ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- OK. The powers that be no longer want to store this stuff, so the time has come to make it go away. We have around 5000 square feet of Vax and PDP equipment that needs to find new homes. It's mostly older Qbus and Unibus stuff, so don't expect to find state of the art stuff in here. There is way too much stuff to list, but in a nutshell, there are vaxen from 11/730 up to 8820, with many microvaxen in ba23's and ba123's. There are many unibus pdp-11's, and some pdp-8 stuff. There is also a DEC-system 2020. Many peripherals. TONS of books, manuals, and printsets. Miles of tape, zillions of disk packs, many 8" floppies, etc. If someone is looking for something in particular, let me know and I can see if it is there. Your best bet, however, is to come walk around and see what you can use. Equipment is free for the taking and is located in Dover, Delaware. Don't respond if you are only interested in scrap. We want to get rid of it, but don't want to see the stuff junked. Hell, we can junk the stuff ourselves if that is what we wanted to do. We thought there should be people out there that can use this equipment. take one piece, or take everything. First come, first served. You haul. Unfortunately, we do not have time to package things for shipping, although if the item is small enough, and you make a good enough case, exceptions may be possible. :-) We are interested in moving this stuff quickly, so please respond if interested. Email address has been purposely munged to prevent spam. Re-assemble the address below to respond. Thanks, Jim Bender jbender at corpamerica dot com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 3 15:04:09 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Transferring files. 11/23+ and the PC. In-Reply-To: <9712031800.AA24432@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Who told you that KERMIT (Billy Yodelman's KRT, I'm assuming here) > doesn't work under SJ? If they told you that you need > XM, they were lying. Just SYSGEN a 5.0 or later SJ system with TIMER > support and you're set. Because when I type "kermit" is says KERMIT.SAV Requires an Extended Memory monitor. > The way you keep the buffer from being overrun is to slow the rate > at which you're blasting data to the PDP. As usual, you've neglected > to tell us what command you are using and the error message (or > symptoms) that it produces when it fails, but I'm going > to assume that you are actually following the instructions in KRTHEX.MAC. > Pay particular attention to the following section: The terminal is the nameserver at school, it runs Linux. The configuration is the COM2 port is plugged into the PC, and I run minicom there, (Telix-type comm program) and talk to the PDP. I was trying to send KSERVE, but I'll follow this. The error message was dropped every time the ASCII upload gave up, I only got to see it for a second. It said something about stack overflow. > ; 3. Run PIP on the PDP-11, then give it a file name to create and tell > ; it to take its input from the terminal. Example: > ; .PIP > ; *KRT.HEX=TT: ! or file name of your choice > ; ^ ! PIP prints a ^ when it's ready for input > ; That's what I did. But I did it on one line. > ; You then use the comm program's ASCII transfer function to simply send > ; the file across. Note that you may have to insert delays between chars > ; or lines (or both) to avoid overrunning the PDP-11, which will return a > ; bell for each char thus lost. When done, reconnect to the PDP-11 and > ; type a control-Z to close the file: > ; > ; ^Z This is happening at 9600 baud. How do I slow it to 1200 or something? The serial in question is the console on M8189 (11/23+ Single-board hex-height CPU) > If you're using MS-DOS Kermit or C-Kermit, the commands to insert > delays in the blasting process are "SET TRANSMIT PAUSE nnn" where > "nnn" is the number of milliseconds to pause between lines. A > very conservative starting value would be 300 ms. Don't get too > greedy - take it slowly and carefully, and it will work! Get impatient > and set the delays too small, and you'll drop characters and have to > do it all over again! (I speak from long experience...) From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 3 15:06:37 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: <3485c0da.190181386@mail.boeing.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 kyrrin2@wizards.net wrote: > There is also a DEC-system 2020. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Holy &*^%&*%! (Spits out soda) That's a DEC-10! A phonecall is placed... "Hey Jeff, think we can get to Maryland quick?" Someone had BETTER save that guy! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Dec 3 15:33:25 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Transferring files. 11/23+ and the PC. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 3, 97 03:04:09 pm Message-ID: <9712032133.AA13760@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971203/654e68cc/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Wed Dec 3 15:59:24 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > There is also a DEC-system 2020. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Holy &*^%&*%! (Spits out soda) That's a DEC-10! Wipe that up! Well, it is a 36 bitter, thus deserving a spot in any collection, but I am sure some of the PDP-10 old timers (hmmmm, who could they be?) will be quick to tell you that the 2020s are the little runts of the family. They were slow and not really elegant. > A phonecall is placed... > "Hey Jeff, think we can get to Maryland quick?" > > Someone had BETTER save that guy! I contacted the guy, and am waiting for a reply. I tend to go down that way quite a bit, so maybe I can survey the situation. Of course, the car will (hopefully) be jammed with vintage DEC stuff on the way home! William Donzelli william@ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 3 15:57:51 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > Well, it is a 36 bitter, thus deserving a spot in any collection, but I am > sure some of the PDP-10 old timers (hmmmm, who could they be?) will be There's a guy somewhere with POPJ,P on his liscense plate. Saw it on a webpage... > quick to tell you that the 2020s are the little runts of the family. They > were slow and not really elegant. So what? Can it run ITS? I wanna see that, I'm told it was fun. > I contacted the guy, and am waiting for a reply. I tend to go down that > way quite a bit, so maybe I can survey the situation. > > Of course, the car will (hopefully) be jammed with vintage DEC stuff on > the way home! I can't get it. I was seriously considering it, but I don't have a place to put it, a way to get it, or 3-phase power. Maybe you could rescue it? From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Dec 3 16:39:01 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I contacted the guy, and am waiting for a reply. I tend to go down that > way quite a bit, so maybe I can survey the situation. > > Of course, the car will (hopefully) be jammed with vintage DEC stuff on > the way home! You realize, that many of us will be lurking out here with baited breath waiting to hear of the things you *don't* want! (but might help acquire) -jim (ever marooned on the West coast... B^} ) --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Dec 3 17:22:35 1997 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free to good home, tons of DEC equip Message-ID: <971203182235_585537942@mrin39.mx> Found the following on comp.sys.dec, anybody close to Dover, Delaware? Mike ===================================================== Subject: Free to good home -- tons of DEC equipment From: MegaGodzilla@Tokyo.com (Mega Godzilla) Date: Wed, Dec 3, 1997 00:26 EST Message-id: <3484e8a4.184368394@news.bdsnet.com> OK. The powers that be no longer want to store this stuff, so the time has come to make it go away. We have around 5000 square feet of Vax and PDP equipment that needs to find new homes. It's mostly older Qbus and Unibus stuff, so don't expect to find state of the art stuff in here. There is way too much stuff to list, but in a nutshell, there are vaxen from 11/730 up to 8820, with many microvaxen in ba23's and ba123's. There are many unibus pdp-11's, and some pdp-8 stuff. There is also a DEC-system 2020. Many peripherals. TONS of books, manuals, and printsets. Miles of tape, zillions of disk packs, many 8" floppies, etc. If someone is looking for something in particular, let me know and I can see if it is there. Your best bet, however, is to come walk around and see what you can use. Equipment is free for the taking and is located in Dover, Delaware. Don't respond if you are only interested in scrap. We want to get rid of it, but don't want to see the stuff junked. Hell, we can junk the stuff ourselves if that is what we wanted to do. We thought there should be people out there that can use this equipment. take one piece, or take everything. First come, first served. You haul. Unfortunately, we do not have time to package things for shipping, although if the item is small enough, and you make a good enough case, exceptions may be possible. :-) We are interested in moving this stuff quickly, so please respond if interested. Email address has been purposely munged to prevent spam. Re-assemble the address below to respond. Thanks, Jim Bender jbender at corpamerica dot com ===================================================== From manney at nwohio.com Wed Dec 3 17:15:52 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Apple Power BookModem Message-ID: <199712032342.PAA21169@mx5.u.washington.edu> I have what seems to me a 2400 baud Apple Powerbook modem with book, drivers, cable and pretty corregated cardboard box. I'll send it for the price of shipping. Please get it out of my hair! manney@nwohio.com From krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl Wed Dec 3 16:22:47 1997 From: krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl (maciej grzeszczuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari In-Reply-To: <971202114935_1982079353@mrin79> <3.0.3.32.19971202122722.0099da00@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <199712032222.XAA18357@sanos.psych.uw.edu.pl> In article <3.0.3.32.19971202122722.0099da00@mail.northernway.net> you wrote: > It's 800xl compatible _if_ you expand the memory, which IIRC was 64K > standard in the 65xe but 128K (or bigger...) in the 800xl. However, you > shouldn't have any problem running dos 2.5, which I own and can make you > copies for if you don't mind waiting for the weekend... as I don't have > time tor re-assemble my 800 until then. of course you're wrong. the 800xl atari had 64kb ram as well as 65xe and 800xe. they all are fully compatible with each other. -- = wasza KrAp = krap@lech.pse.pl = http://www.psych.uw.edu.pl/~krap = = phone 602-339173 = PGP 50D98803B12327E7 216A787AB7EFD5FA * in arp we trust * 1183 From krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl Wed Dec 3 16:24:18 1997 From: krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl (maciej grzeszczuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:49 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971202183722.564fe638@mail.sinasohn.com> Message-ID: <199712032224.XAA18379@sanos.psych.uw.edu.pl> In article <1.5.4.16.19971202183722.564fe638@mail.sinasohn.com> you wrote: > >While doing my usual thrift store rounds, i bought an atari 65XE, xmm801 > > The Atari 65XE is part of the same generation of 8-bit Atari computers as > the 130XE someone mention the other day. Compatible with the 400/800, it is compatible with 400/800, but you had to load the translator first. > 600XL/800XL/1200XL, and 130XE/130XEG. IIRC, the 130XE has 128K ram, the > 65XE had 64K? I'm not sure, but the 65XE may be a bit of a rarity; I don't > remember them being sold much. Check with some of the atari sites on the web. 65xe series are not rare. they sold plenty of them. -- = wasza KrAp = krap@lech.pse.pl = http://www.psych.uw.edu.pl/~krap = = phone 602-339173 = PGP 50D98803B12327E7 216A787AB7EFD5FA * in arp we trust * 1184 From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Dec 3 17:59:56 1997 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Yippee! Message-ID: <199712032359.SAA28926@webern.cs.unc.edu> Thanks to all who gave me pointers a while back. I now have my SwTPC S/09 booting UniFLEX from 8" floppys. There were a handful of broken solder-joints in the floppies' power supply, and a dead NOR gate on one of the Qume's controller boards. Next up, the winnies... Bill. PS. I'm still having daydreams of getting an old SwTPC 6800 machine, and maybe a CT-64/CT-VM to go with it. Does anyone have any idea how many of these things were actually produced, and where most of them went to, geographically speaking? Should I expect San Antonio to be a virtual tar pit of old SwTPC stuff? From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Dec 3 17:56:21 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Found in comp.sys.pdp11 Message-ID: <002b01bd0048$6ac0afa0$a7782599@office1> For those interested...see paste below. 5msf of DEC equipment in Dover, DE. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ OK. The powers that be no longer want to store this stuff, so the time has come to make it go away. We have around 5000 square feet of Vax and PDP equipment that needs to find new homes. It's mostly older Qbus and Unibus stuff, so don't expect to find state of the art stuff in here. There is way too much stuff to list, but in a nutshell, there are vaxen from 11/730 up to 8820, with many microvaxen in ba23's and ba123's. There are many unibus pdp-11's, and some pdp-8 stuff. There is also a DEC-system 2020. Many peripherals. TONS of books, manuals, and printsets. Miles of tape, zillions of disk packs, many 8" floppies, etc. If someone is looking for something in particular, let me know and I can see if it is there. Your best bet, however, is to come walk around and see what you can use. Equipment is free for the taking and is located in Dover, Delaware. Don't respond if you are only interested in scrap. We want to get rid of it, but don't want to see the stuff junked. Hell, we can junk the stuff ourselves if that is what we wanted to do. We thought there should be people out there that can use this equipment. take one piece, or take everything. First come, first served. You haul. Unfortunately, we do not have time to package things for shipping, although if the item is small enough, and you make a good enough case, exceptions may be possible. :-) We are interested in moving this stuff quickly, so please respond if interested. Email address has been purposely munged to prevent spam. Re-assemble the address below to respond. Thanks, Jim Bender jbender at corpamerica dot com From william at ans.net Wed Dec 3 18:35:09 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > So what? Can it run ITS? I wanna see that, I'm told it was fun. Exactly! OS/8 is really quite horrid by any standard for the past 20 years, but it still can be fun. The same goes with just about every other ancient operating system. OK, PDP-8 people, just _shut_up_. It is just an example. > I can't get it. I was seriously considering it, but I don't have a place > to put it, a way to get it, or 3-phase power. > > Maybe you could rescue it? That is the plan. I may go out there this weekend to check the place out, if it is OK with the guy. Does anyone have background information on the outfit that has this stuff? William Donzelli william@ans.net From krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl Wed Dec 3 16:25:17 1997 From: krap at zwieracz.psych.uw.edu.pl (maciej grzeszczuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Weekend addition- Atari References: <1.5.4.16.19971202183725.564febf0@mail.sinasohn.com> Message-ID: <664m8d$hut$1@sanos.psych.uw.edu.pl> 3 Dec 97 02:39:01 GMT Uncle Roger napisal byl w listserv.classiccmp: > I'm pretty sure the 800XL was 64K. The original 800 was 16K standard, > expandable to 48K. The 400 was 16K I think. The 600XL was 16K and not > expandable unless you had the expansion box (saw one once). The 1200XL > might be 128K, but I'm not sure. 1200xl was 64kb i think. and expandable. > P.S., this doesn't include 3rd party stuff. I've seen 1200XL's with the > 6502-compatible 16-bit processors with internal hard drives hooked up to a > Pentium being used as a CD-ROM drive. 1185 -- = wasza KrAp = krap@lech.pse.pl = http://www.psych.uw.edu.pl/~krap = = phone 602-339173 = PGP 50D98803B12327E7 216A787AB7EFD5FA * in arp we trust * From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Dec 3 19:06:25 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Info on RQDX3 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971203170625.00893cf0@agora.rdrop.com> New day, new aggrivations... I've been trying to get an ST-212 drive formatted up as an RD51 so I can install a copy of Micro-RSTS onto one of my systems. Got the parameters to format the drive on my VS2000, and that seemed to go OK. Put the drive into the system (a MicroPDP 11/23), and it looked OK until I told the RSTS installer to prepare the drive, at which point it started complaining about various things, and claimed that the drive was an RD52?!? Back to the notes... Find a note that drives formatted on a VS2000 are not compatable with an RQDX1 controller... Whats in the 11/23? Yank the back off... Figures... An RQDX1! FOO!! Off to the board box... Locate an RQDX3, looks promising... Install it in the system... Now the system completes its self test and immediately complains about a "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error". WTH is this? Off to the book shelf... NUTZ! Latest book I've got only gets up to the RQDX1! Decide to bag it for the night... Put the RQDX1 back in... Same error??? AARGH!!! So to the questions: What is "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error" ? Did the RQDX1 perhaps munge the format on the drive during the install attempt? Anyone have a list of the jumpers on the RQDX3 that might be of use ? Can a RQDX3 be subbed straight across for an RQDX1 ? If not, does anyone have a formatter disk (or whatever) for the RQDX1 ? Why am I now getting the same error from the RQDX1 and the RQDX3 ? Anyone got a spare copy of a manual that covers the various RQDX? ? Foo! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Dec 2 21:40:52 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers In-Reply-To: <3489a878.5109953@smtp.ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971202214052.00955580@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Benedict Chong head-scratched, yawned, then typed: >On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:36:15 -0500, Roger wrote: > >%Speaking of my T200, it can turn itself on and off... can a Wintel >box do >%that??? ;-) > >I hate to waste bandwidth, but : > >Yes, a modern Wintel box can turn itself off. Notebooks running W95 >can shut themselves down. Desktops with ATX motherboards and >associated ATX-type power supplies can do the same. Quite useful, >considering the amount of time Win95 takes to shut itself down : you >start the shutdown process and go off without having to wait... I hate to continue the waste [well, maybe not], but in my original post I said "on _and_ off..." These machines cannot turn on by themselves unattended by setting an internal wake-up time. My T200 can collect data for months totally unattended if I need it to. And it's got a nicer keyboard than modern laptops, too! (I can hit 110 wpm on my T200 laptop keyboard -- can't do that on a StinkPad! ;-) Should I mention which commercial laptops you can take on the Space Shuttle??? ;^> Have fun with the geezers, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From william at ans.net Wed Dec 3 19:02:59 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > You realize, that many of us will be lurking out here with baited breath > waiting to hear of the things you *don't* want! (but might help acquire) If I go, I will give a report on my return. I heard back from the guy, and this weekend looks good so far. I may end up renting a small truck, as some of the stuff will surely end up at RCS/RI. If this TRUELY is a gold mine, I would be willing to help grab things and store them _for_a_short_while_ in my Easton, PA storage locker. I would need some help in the money department, as the truck would not be all that cheap. Extra hands would be nice, too. However, I will only take requests until after I see what is there - if it is all VAXen and later PDP-11s, my interest will wane a bit (not totally, however!). If a straight-8 is there, well, you know who will be keeping that. > -jim (ever marooned on the West coast... B^} ) MAROONED? It seems to me very recently a Cyber 180 was decommissioned out your way. If only it were out here... William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 3 19:50:13 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Franklin Ace500 ??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971203151957.00688660@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: > I just got a Franklin Ace 500 copy of Apple ][C, no documentation >or power >supply. Would anyone have the pin outs and voltages of the seven pin DIN >power connector? Just happen to have the manual sitting on the floor under my computer desk. Looks like a cool computer, mine came complete, but with the power supply in pieces (actually only the PS guts). x 7 +5 Sense +5V 6 x x 1 GND +12V 5 x x 2 GND -12V 4 x x 3 GND Hope that is understandable. I've heard it rumored that the Apple //c PS is compatible, BUT I just checked and the pins are a different configuration. BTW, I've also got a Franklin Ace 1200, big machine very cool, runs both Apple DOS and CP/M. More important it actually has a power supply. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Dec 3 21:05:53 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Info on RQDX3 References: <3.0.3.32.19971203170625.00893cf0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <34861E11.59A87713@halcyon.com> Jim, I have had success formatting RD5x harddrives and look-alikes on an 11/23+ using the "M-11 FORMTR RX50" diskette from DEC. It's DEC no. BL-FN7AP-MC, CZFNAP0. You used to be able to order it from DEC Direct at 1-800-344-4825 for about $85. This diskette contains the "latest" diagnostics for disks, diskettes, tapes, etc. from the Micro PDP-11 Field Service Test Diskettes. You might have an old set of those diskettes around (they are sometimes found with the machines) that has recent enough versions for the RQDX3. Formatting with the RQDX1 and RQDX3 are not compatible. For a good discussion of many of the questions you ask, see the file ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/third-party-disks.txt as well as other files in that directory. Dave James Willing wrote: > > New day, new aggrivations... > > I've been trying to get an ST-212 drive formatted up as an RD51 so I can > install a copy of Micro-RSTS onto one of my systems. > > Got the parameters to format the drive on my VS2000, and that seemed to go OK. > > Put the drive into the system (a MicroPDP 11/23), and it looked OK until I > told the RSTS installer to prepare the drive, at which point it started > complaining about various things, and claimed that the drive was an RD52?!? > > Back to the notes... Find a note that drives formatted on a VS2000 are not > compatable with an RQDX1 controller... Whats in the 11/23? Yank the back > off... Figures... An RQDX1! FOO!! > > Off to the board box... Locate an RQDX3, looks promising... Install it in > the system... Now the system completes its self test and immediately > complains about a "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error". WTH is this? Off to > the book shelf... NUTZ! Latest book I've got only gets up to the RQDX1! > > Decide to bag it for the night... Put the RQDX1 back in... Same error??? > AARGH!!! > > So to the questions: > > What is "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error" ? > Did the RQDX1 perhaps munge the format on the drive during the install > attempt? > Anyone have a list of the jumpers on the RQDX3 that might be of use ? > Can a RQDX3 be subbed straight across for an RQDX1 ? > If not, does anyone have a formatter disk (or whatever) for the RQDX1 ? > Why am I now getting the same error from the RQDX1 and the RQDX3 ? > Anyone got a spare copy of a manual that covers the various RQDX? ? > > Foo! > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971203/71281c2a/vcard.vcf From TOwad at aol.com Wed Dec 3 21:08:21 1997 From: TOwad at aol.com (TOwad@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Franklin Ace500 ??? Message-ID: <971203220820_983926516@mrin45.mail.aol.com> Probably the same as the IIc and Laser 128: Input: AC120v 60Hz 36VA Output: DC17V 1.8A Polarity: NC(1) +VE(2,3) GNd (4,5,6) NC(7) Pin 1 is at 1:00. Pin 7 at 11:00. Hope that helps. Tom >I just got a Franklin Ace 500 copy of Apple ][C, no documentation or power >supply. Would anyone have the pin outs and voltages of the seven pin DIN >power connector? From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Dec 4 08:53:22 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Donation - old mainframe Unix system In-Reply-To: <199712022028.AA27325@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971204095322.0097ee50@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Allison J Parent said: ><>Funny... My CoCo can support multiple users, and it wasn't expensive at ><>all... $xxx for the machine, $yyy for the floppy drive, $zzz for OS-9 = >And the point was... You made the point that older boxes were expected to be multiuser because they were expensive. My point was that not all older boxes that supported multiple users were expensive. T'was all I was saying. >I made a subtle point that the older and often smaller machines were not >short on capability and also didn't lack for understandability. Must've been too subtle... ;-) I didn't quite read it that way, but... Oh well, sorry! >The later is significant. Far to many of the wintel boxen are undocumented >kluges running a million or more lines of incomprehensable code that >sometimes** works. After that programming something like PDP-8 with it's >smaller memory and very small instruction set suggest getting to the >concise solution was essential. Same so for the early micros were 64k >of ram and an instruction set that could be remembered. Other than replacing the sometimes** above with "barely" (or recently for me, "rarely"), I wholeheartedly agree! Back to work ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Dec 4 08:30:50 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Zenith TurbosProt 386 Message-ID: <01bd00c1$3843d6a0$8362bcc1@photze> Does anyone know of a good newsgroup/anywhere else where I can get one of those? They seem very interesting.... Thanks, Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971204/b5ce6dc0/attachment.html From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Dec 4 10:28:56 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Info on RQDX3 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971203170625.00893cf0@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Dec 3, 97 05:06:25 pm Message-ID: <9712041628.AA23933@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971204/97999c46/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Dec 4 12:10:58 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB207152B90@red-65-msg.dns.microsoft.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Merchberger [SMTP:zmerch@northernway.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:41 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Spoiled by geezers > > ; > I hate to continue the waste [well, maybe not], but in my original post I > said "on _and_ off..." These machines cannot turn on by themselves > unattended by setting an internal wake-up time. > Well, actually, they can. Kai From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 4 12:41:27 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <199712041841.AA08033@world.std.com> <> I hate to continue the waste [well, maybe not], but in my original post <> said "on _and_ off..." These machines cannot turn on by themselves <> unattended by setting an internal wake-up time. <> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Off to the board box... Locate an RQDX3, looks promising... Install it in > > the system... Now the system completes its self test and immediately > > complains about a "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error". WTH is this? Off to > > the book shelf... NUTZ! Latest book I've got only gets up to the RQDX1! > > I would guess that your 11/23+ is configured to auto-boot from DU0, right? > (If not, you shouldn't be getting any error, but sitting at the prompt > of the 11/23+ boot monitor). Correct. System wants to auto-boot from DU0 > > Decide to bag it for the night... Put the RQDX1 back in... Same error??? > > AARGH!!! > > I take it this wasn't happening before? Did you move anything around? > Due to their inability to pass bus grants, RQDX1's have to be at the > end of the backplane. And, of course, you have to have backplane continuity > up until the RQDX1 or RQDX3. Initially, pulled the RQDX1 from the last slot, and installed RQDX3 into empty dual wide position (slot 3, right, seemed odd that it was empty. And yes, the system ran prior to this) next to tape controller. Later reversed process. > > Did the RQDX1 perhaps munge the format on the drive during the install > > attempt? > > Maybe - but should this matter? IIRC, you've never had a kosher RQDX1 > format on the disk, right? True. This was a off the shelf ST212 that I formatted in a VS2000. > > Why am I now getting the same error from the RQDX1 and the RQDX3 ? > > Good question. Tell us more about your system (and what changed) and > you might get an answer! Well... if this is indeed a 'can't talk to controller' error rather than a 'bad drive(format)' error, this is oss... At this point, except for the drive all in the system is back as it was. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Dec 4 14:21:56 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Info on RQDX3 In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Dec 4, 97 10:50:13 am Message-ID: <9712042021.AA32452@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1096 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971204/7b230998/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 4 15:24:36 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Info on RQDX3 Message-ID: <199712042124.AA03044@world.std.com> <> Initially, pulled the RQDX1 from the last slot, and installed RQDX3 into <> empty dual wide position (slot 3, right, seemed odd that it was empty. <> And yes, the system ran prior to this) next to tape controller. Later <> reversed process. < I have got some more bits to add to my MicroVAX II - 2 extra RA81s and an RA82 in their own rack unit. This makes RA drives in all now but I can't connect more than 2 at a time as I didn't get any cables with the 3 'new' ones :-(. The RA82 has NetBSD on it but the person who gave them to me said he wasn't sure whether it would work on my machine. When I try to boot off that drive I get the following: 2..1..0.. howto 0x0, bdev 0x11 booting... 10556+552+33996 start 0x0 Nboot :/netbsd 610304+2696+61260 start 0x8c17c ?06 HLT INST PC=00000003 >>> Am I right in thinking that this means I am not going to be able to boot from this drive. As it is a Unix filesystem I tried to mount it from Ultrix running on the other drive and failed. Is it possible tat I may be able to boot from the drive, or failing that, is there any other way that I can have a 'nose around' in the drive or should I just incorporate it into my Ultrix filesystem and forget about NetBSD. Eventually I hope to assist in the VAX-Linux port and then use this machine as a server. If anyone knows of any VAX architecture and/or assembly language tutorials on the web I would welcome the URL, and if anyone in the UK has any books or documentation going spare... ;-) I tried buying books but at about 50UKP each, I have no chance. Regards Pete From manney at nwohio.com Thu Dec 4 17:53:21 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: FREE! Trash-80 Model 4's Message-ID: <199712042359.PAA12934@mx3.u.washington.edu> Two TRS-80 Model 4's are available for free in northern Ohio. I can stall the owner for a couple of days, but if I don't get a reply, they get trashed. Some software, too, (don't know what, will find out) and a wide carriage daisy wheel printer. I'll pack if you pay for shipping. manney@nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Franklin Ace500 ??? > Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 9:19 PM > > Probably the same as the IIc and Laser 128: > > Input: AC120v 60Hz 36VA > Output: DC17V 1.8A > > Polarity: > > NC(1) > +VE(2,3) > GNd (4,5,6) > NC(7) > > Pin 1 is at 1:00. Pin 7 at 11:00. > > Hope that helps. > > Tom > > >I just got a Franklin Ace 500 copy of Apple ][C, no documentation or power > >supply. Would anyone have the pin outs and voltages of the seven pin DIN > >power connector? From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Dec 4 18:05:42 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: FREE! Trash-80 Model 4's In-Reply-To: <199712042359.PAA12934@mx3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: I am definetely interested in these systems... could you find out if they are working and what software is with them? I certainly _will_ pay all shipping! Thanks, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Two TRS-80 Model 4's are available for free in northern Ohio. I can stall > the owner for a couple of days, but if I don't get a reply, they get > trashed. > Some software, too, (don't know what, will find out) and a wide carriage > daisy wheel printer. > I'll pack if you pay for shipping. > manney@nwohio.com > > ---------- > > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > To: Manney > > Subject: Re: Franklin Ace500 ??? > > Date: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 9:19 PM > > > > Probably the same as the IIc and Laser 128: > > > > Input: AC120v 60Hz 36VA > > Output: DC17V 1.8A > > > > Polarity: > > > > NC(1) > > +VE(2,3) > > GNd (4,5,6) > > NC(7) > > > > Pin 1 is at 1:00. Pin 7 at 11:00. > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > Tom > > > > >I just got a Franklin Ace 500 copy of Apple ][C, no documentation or > power > > >supply. Would anyone have the pin outs and voltages of the seven pin DIN > > >power connector? > > From Zeus334 at aol.com Thu Dec 4 18:15:28 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <3fef0ffa.348747a2@aol.com> ><< <> I hate to continue the waste [well, maybe not], but in my original post ><> said "on _and_ off..." These machines cannot turn on by themselves > <> unattended by setting an internal wake-up time. > <> > > Th PX-8 can wake up, do something and go to sleep automajikally. > Well, I agree that these systems are better; recently, wintel machines also have certain accessories which can schedule the PC to turn on. From cchris at hooked.net Thu Dec 4 18:31:06 1997 From: cchris at hooked.net (Chris Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: WANTED:Heath H-8 memory board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings, I am looking for H-8 memory board(s) to bring my beloved H-8 up to 64k. I need an additional 16k. Does anyone have an original 8k or 16k board or, preferably, a DG 32k board they would want to part with? Thanks, Chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 4 19:47:57 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: weekend finds In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971202183719.54aff620@mail.sinasohn.com> from "Uncle Roger" at Dec 2, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1047 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971205/3e31ad6b/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 4 19:50:37 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <199712050150.AA08633@world.std.com> > <> Th PX-8 can wake up, do something and go to sleep automajikally. <> I have an HHC in perfect working order and was just wondering what it might be worth to a collector. Just curious, Dave Dales Ddales@cts.com San Diego, CA From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Thu Dec 4 22:00:41 1997 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! Message-ID: I stopped in there today and they're not kidding. Piles of PDP-11s: 11/04, 11/23, 11/34, 11/44. VAX, MicroVAX, VAXstation (I picked up a Tempest-shielded VAXstation cabinet), disk and tape drives, terminals (tons of VT100s,) monitors, documentation, you name it. I didn't see any PDP-8s, though the guy said he thought there might be some 8/a stuff squirreled away. The DECsystem 2020 is in a single cab. They're anxious to empty the building and stop paying rent, so at some point, the unclaimed items will be tossed. I snagged a small pile of stuff and put dibs on a couple others that I'll be picking up early next week. -- Tony ---------- From: kyrrin2@wizards.net[SMTP:kyrrin2@wizards.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 3:30 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! ATTN: Classic Computer Rescue Crewmembers in the Dover, Delaware area! Take note of this missive I found on Usenet. If I were ANYwhere near the east coast, I'd already have visited the place. This is a terrific opportunity for those of you who want to get your hands dirty on DEC hardware to do it. And, if anyone goes down there and finds an M7552 module (RRD50 controller), please snare it for me! ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- OK. The powers that be no longer want to store this stuff, so the time has come to make it go away. We have around 5000 square feet of Vax and PDP equipment that needs to find new homes. It's mostly older Qbus and Unibus stuff, so don't expect to find state of the art stuff in here. There is way too much stuff to list, but in a nutshell, there are vaxen from 11/730 up to 8820, with many microvaxen in ba23's and ba123's. There are many unibus pdp-11's, and some pdp-8 stuff. There is also a DEC-system 2020. Many peripherals. TONS of books, manuals, and printsets. Miles of tape, zillions of disk packs, many 8" floppies, etc. If someone is looking for something in particular, let me know and I can see if it is there. Your best bet, however, is to come walk around and see what you can use. Equipment is free for the taking and is located in Dover, Delaware. Don't respond if you are only interested in scrap. We want to get rid of it, but don't want to see the stuff junked. Hell, we can junk the stuff ourselves if that is what we wanted to do. We thought there should be people out there that can use this equipment. take one piece, or take everything. First come, first served. You haul. Unfortunately, we do not have time to package things for shipping, although if the item is small enough, and you make a good enough case, exceptions may be possible. :-) We are interested in moving this stuff quickly, so please respond if interested. Email address has been purposely munged to prevent spam. Re-assemble the address below to respond. Thanks, Jim Bender jbender at corpamerica dot com From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Dec 5 00:16:44 1997 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971205171644.00a60cf0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 04:59 PM 12/3/97 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> > There is also a DEC-system 2020. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> Holy &*^%&*%! (Spits out soda) That's a DEC-10! > >Wipe that up! > >Well, it is a 36 bitter, thus deserving a spot in any collection, but I am >sure some of the PDP-10 old timers (hmmmm, who could they be?) will be >quick to tell you that the 2020s are the little runts of the family. They >were slow and not really elegant. I think of myself as a young DECsystem-10 old timer :-) Whilst it's true to say that the horrible orange 2020s are runts, not real -10s (they're the wrong colour and size to start with), they are the only practical DEC 36 bit system for the home user.... It's no bigger than a VAX-11/780 and there are quite a few people with systems that size at home. The biggest regret I have is that I was offered one about 5 years ago and didn't have the space or money at the time to get it - it was later scrapped.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Dec 5 07:47:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 2020 in a single cab? How big is it? I was under the impression that 10s were big loud things, in 3 cabinets. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Dec 5 08:28:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 5, 97 07:47:30 am Message-ID: <9712051428.AA00337@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 944 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971205/f906fb68/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Dec 5 08:48:52 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix Message-ID: <01bd018c$e742b600$0100007f@localhost> Season's greetings! I have just gotten interested in Linux, (so, it's not truly classic content, but it's implementations are); and I was wondering if anyone here has experience with this kind of thing.... any Linux experience at all. (Sorry for the decipful headline) And I know that it makes me look like an idiot; but possilby if someone could transmit some good newsgroups. People have said time and time again that there are betternewsgroups where we can put all of our "modern" questions. Possibly, that could be included in the FAQ. (Or NAQ) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971205/1457b83f/attachment.html From scott at saskatoon.com Fri Dec 5 10:22:44 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: DECmate II Message-ID: Yesterday I picked up a DECmate II. Unfortunately, there were no disks with it. I have a few questions... 1. How would I recognize an APU or XPU board? 2. Where can I get a boot disk for it? 3. What software was(is) available for it? (I guess I can now say I have a PDP-8.) ttfn srw From mwhybark at halcyon.com Thu Dec 4 22:38:30 1997 From: mwhybark at halcyon.com (Mike Whybark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: oldies but goodies Message-ID: Seattle area: Zenith Z-180 portable, circa 1983 lotsa SW manuals battery unvouched for display spotty please bid, not looking for a gold mine, u-haul! FREE: Katpro 2, manuals, some SW + Jukiwriter 6100, cables (hey, it got me through school about 10 years ago!) From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Dec 5 11:04:54 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: <9712051428.AA00337@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > The 2020's cabinet has about the same footprint as a 11/750 but > several feet taller, and it easily > contains both the CPU and a 10.5" Unibus box. Of course, any real > system also has several Massbus disks and tapes attached to it. According to my book, it's a Hi-boy case, 29"x60" There's all kindsa interesting stuff in here... > > I sincerely hope that whoever grabs the 2020 has enough sense to take > home a couple of 18-bit RP05 or RM03 drives along with the OS packs. > It would be a crying shame to see the peripherals separated from > this machine! Of course, with each of the disk drives weighing about > as much as the CPU, I'm worried that separation may occur! > That's my usual comes-back-to-bite-me-in-the-ass manuver - forgetting the disks but getting the machine to save room... > > In the remaining 2020 installation that I know of, two 2020's (one > running TOPS-20, the other running ITS) along with two RP05's, > two RM03's, and two 9-track drives all fit in a single room > roughly 16 feet x 12 feet quite comfortably. > Is this also where you work? From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Dec 5 12:23:18 1997 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Advice wanted for cleaning edge connectors, IC sockets, etc. Message-ID: <348b44ef.61532388@hoser> I recently started the process of bringing my old IMSAI back to the land of the living; it's been packed away for about 10 years, and while it is still functional, the front panel (which never was too stable to begin with) is showing some signs of dirty connections, such as LEDs that flicker if the panel is bumped, unpredictable response to some address switches, etc. I would like to give it a good cleaning, and was wondering what I should use. I didn't know if something like "tuner wash" would be bad for the connectors, PC board, plastic IC sockets, silk screening, solder mask, etc. I considered rubbing alcohol, but I don't know what the effect of that would be either. I checked the FAQs that I know of, and about all I came up with was someone's technique of "giving the circuit board a good scrubbing" with dish soap and swinging it on the end of a string to dry it. As this technique strikes me as possibly dangerous, to myself, the boards, and passers-by, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. :^) -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Dec 5 12:23:04 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Forward: Atari STacy FS Message-ID: found on dc.forsale.computers, so it's located somewhere in northern va. email the seller, not me! For Sale: Atari STacy portable computer. 4MB RAM. 40 MB hard disk. Built-in screen, MIDI, and trackball. Can also use external mouse and monitor if desired. STacy is perfect for serving as the MIDI heartbeat of an art installation or for live gigs. To this day, the Atari has the most accurate MIDI clocking ever produced on a computer. No other full-computer package provides the perfect MIDI portablility of the STacy - one piece grab and go! Though the memory and disk seems small by modern standards, the software written for this machine (and there is lots of it) was written small and fast. Thus, MIDI-wise, STacy can do it all, and do it well, besting many modern boxes running modern un-tuned code. (No digital audio though...) Also, if you want to exercise the score-printing capabilities, I can provide an Atari laser printer with it. Though old, this is still a special box. I'm not "blowing it out", but all reasonable offers will be considered. Please respond via email. Subject: FS: Atari STacy portable MIDI computer Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!pitt.edu!dsinc !news.voicenet.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!winter.n ews.erols.com!progster From: progster@erols.com (Progster) From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Dec 5 12:34:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Advice wanted for cleaning edge connectors, IC sockets, etc. In-Reply-To: <348b44ef.61532388@hoser> from "Bill Richman" at Dec 5, 97 06:23:18 pm Message-ID: <9712051834.AA06217@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971205/a2ca5c1f/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 5 13:56:15 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971205115502.4507ca92@ricochet.net> At 01:41 PM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Th PX-8 can wake up, do something and go to sleep automajikally. I noticed that in the docs t'other day too. Which brings me to the changed subject... With the receipt of a PX-8 (with matching P-80 Portable printer!) I kinda feel like I've got a pretty decent collection of portable computers going. What I've got so far is: Altima 2 Amstrad PPC640 Amstrad PDA 600 "PenPad" Apple Macintosh Portable Atari Portfolio Bondwell B310plus. Casio FA-10 Docking Station Compaq Portable 386 Data General One Epson HX-20 Laptop Epson PX-8 Laptop Grid GridCase3 Grid GridPad 1910 Hewlett-Packard 75D Hewlett-Packard Vectra LS/12 Hewlett-Packard Portable Vectra CS Iasis Computer in a Book IBM PC Radio IBM PS/2 Model 70 Lunchbox Interactive Network NEC MultiSpeed NEC PC8201A NEC PC8401A "Starlet" Osborne 01 Osborne Executive Outbound Laptop Panasonic HHC (HandHeld Computer) Radio Shack Model 100. Sharp PC-7000 with printer Sharp PC-7100 Seequa Chameleon Sharp PC-4 Texas Instruments Compact Computer 40, Type-O-Graph Zenith ZP-150 Zenith ZF-161 Zenith Z-170 Zenith Supersport 286 Not all of these are working 100% (yet), and a couple are still enroute (Outbound & Portfolio). So anyway, I sorta feel like I could not add another machine and still have a collection of portables that covers the important ones, plus a bunch that were kinda weird or personally significant. But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? Thanks! (And sorry for the longness(? Length)!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From mark at cyberlightstudios.com Fri Dec 5 13:53:13 1997 From: mark at cyberlightstudios.com (Mark Tosiello) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix Message-ID: <01BD018D.82E67600.mark@cyberlightstudios.com> Hi, Yes, I've got experience with Linux. Email me at mark@cyberlightstudios.com Mark -----Original Message----- From: Hotze [SMTP:photze@batelco.com.bh] Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 9:49 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Interest In Unix << File: ATT00000.htm >> Season's greetings! I have just gotten interested in Linux, (so, it's not truly classic content, but it's implementations are); and I was wondering if anyone here has experience with this kind of thing.... any Linux experience at all. (Sorry for the decipful headline) And I know that it makes me look like an idiot; but possilby if someone could transmit some good newsgroups. People have said time and time again that there are betternewsgroups where we can put all of our "modern" questions. Possibly, that could be included in the FAQ. (Or NAQ) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 5 14:44:18 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Forward: Atari STacy FS Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971205124305.4507c54e@ricochet.net> At 01:23 PM 12/5/97 EST, you wrote: >Atari STacy portable computer. 4MB RAM. 40 MB hard disk. Built-in >screen, MIDI, and trackball. Can also use external mouse and monitor if These still sell for several hundred dollars, mostly because they are just about the ideal MIDI solution for traveling musicians (except maybe for the never-produced ST-Book). I'd love to have one, but since I don't get to use my various ST's & Falcons as it is... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 5 14:44:22 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Panasonic HHC Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971205124309.0b57d23e@ricochet.net> At 07:01 PM 12/3/97 -0800, you wrote: >I have an HHC in perfect working order and was just wondering what it might be worth to a collector. I recently got mine for $15.50. See for details. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From TOwad at aol.com Fri Dec 5 14:31:31 1997 From: TOwad at aol.com (T Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: FREE! Trash-80 Model 4's Message-ID: <6412d1a2.3488675a@aol.com> I'm interested in the TRS-80s you mentioned. How much will it cost? I'm in PA 17347. Thanks, Tom From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 5 15:57:52 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Advice wanted for cleaning edge connectors, IC sockets, etc. Message-ID: <199712052157.AA01895@world.std.com> <"tuner wash" would be bad for the connectors, PC board, plastic IC In a message dated 97-12-05 05:03:13 EST, you write: << Yes but the PX-8 is now 13 years old and the nicads in it could sustain continous computing for 12-16 hours. I've tried one for logging data and it ran for two weeks at 1-2 minutes per hour without trouble. The time and autostart/shutdown was built in, no extras needed. Most laptops would be hard pressed to run the total uptime without killing the battery. Allison >> What exactly is a PX-8? BTW, I have a Mac Portable, which I got because it wasn't working. After connecting the battery directly to the AC power for a few seconds, it worked. The battery is dead now, though. I use another AC adapter for the battery, as well as the normal one. That thing eats power! Why your battery is alive and mine died, god only knows. From william at ans.net Fri Dec 5 16:17:33 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: RED ALERT!! BIG LOAD OF FREEBIES!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I didn't see any PDP-8s, though the guy said he thought there might be > some 8/a stuff squirreled away. The DECsystem 2020 is in a single cab. It appears that RCS/RI is getting the 2020. Question: were there any drives associated with the thing? I will be scouting around in a few days for myself and RCS/RI, but am anxious to know. William Donzelli william@ans.net From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 5 16:36:40 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Portable Collection References: <1.5.4.16.19971205115502.4507ca92@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199712052236.OAA18803@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Uncle Roger wrote: [definite list of stuff to lust after snipped] > So anyway, I sorta feel like I could not add another machine and still have > a collection of portables that covers the important ones, plus a bunch that > were kinda weird or personally significant. > > But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm > missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, > an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). > Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? Hmm. Just thinking about portables in my own collection.... Convergent Workslate - Unfortunately mine has no power supply or documentation, so it's untested and thirsty. What do I feed it? Gavilan - I'm in the middle of inventorying what seems to be copies of manuals, schematics, test plans, memos, and miscellaneous papers. With them I received a Gavilan SC computer, also untested 'til I wade through the documentation to figure out what it expects for power. HP 110 (Portable) HP Portable Plus - These are useful, too, for several hours of typing away from a wall plug. HP Integral PC - Unix in ROM Osborne 3 - Somebody please tell me I don't have the *only* one in the world! Osborne 4 (Vixen) - Hey, if you're interested in collecting the whole set.... -Frank McConnell From pvhp at forte.com Fri Dec 5 17:06:30 1997 From: pvhp at forte.com (Peter Prymmer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:50 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix Message-ID: <9712052306.AA14051@forte.com> classiccmp@u.washington.edu, photze@batelco.com.bh Subj: Re: Interest In Unix Tim D. Hotze wrote: >------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD01A6.0C8FEE00 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Season's greetings! I have just gotten interested in Linux, (so, it's = >not truly classic content, but it's implementations are); and I was = >wondering if anyone here has experience with this kind of thing.... any = >Linux experience at all. (Sorry for the decipful headline) > And I know that it makes me look like an idiot; but possilby if = >someone could transmit some good newsgroups. People have said time and = >time again that there are betternewsgroups where we can put all of our = >"modern" questions. Possibly, that could be included in the FAQ. (Or = >NAQ) > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > I was under the impression that Linus started with the minix code - early versions of which are certainly approaching the 10 year classical limit. Here is some other help: % newsgroups | grep linux comp.os.linux.admin comp.os.linux.advocacy comp.os.linux.announce comp.os.linux.answers comp.os.linux.development comp.os.linux.development.apps comp.os.linux.development.system comp.os.linux.hardware comp.os.linux.help comp.os.linux.m68k comp.os.linux.misc comp.os.linux.networking comp.os.linux.setup comp.os.linux.x have fun. Peter Prymmer From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Dec 5 12:29:39 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix In-Reply-To: <9712052306.AA14051@forte.com> Message-ID: <199712052324.SAA08266@mail.cgocable.net> Hi!, These list of newsgroups given here are good but bit standoffish and they EXPECTs you to READ and read. Real weird. what is suitable uses or hard to solve problems is when you can ask there. I'm installing slackware 3.4 (2.0.30) from the zip disks to my old compaq LTE 386s/20 via parallel port. Hoo Whoo! Every time installer sniffs into disks (direct d/l'ed in proper places, I get complaint from installer but things get installed anyway. How I make this installer happy for once all? And have Happy christmas/ Happy new year to all! Troll > > > >Season's greetings! I have just gotten interested in Linux, (so, it's = > >not truly classic content, but it's implementations are); and I was = > >wondering if anyone here has experience with this kind of thing.... any = > >Linux experience at all. (Sorry for the decipful headline) > > And I know that it makes me look like an idiot; but possilby if = > >someone could transmit some good newsgroups. People have said time and = > >time again that there are betternewsgroups where we can put all of our = > >"modern" questions. Possibly, that could be included in the FAQ. (Or = > >NAQ) > > Thanks, > > > > Tim D. Hotze > > > > I was under the impression that Linus started with the minix code - early > versions of which are certainly approaching the 10 year classical limit. > > Here is some other help: > > % newsgroups | grep linux > comp.os.linux.admin > comp.os.linux.advocacy > comp.os.linux.announce > comp.os.linux.answers > comp.os.linux.development > comp.os.linux.development.apps > comp.os.linux.development.system > comp.os.linux.hardware > comp.os.linux.help > comp.os.linux.m68k > comp.os.linux.misc > comp.os.linux.networking > comp.os.linux.setup > comp.os.linux.x > > have fun. > > Peter Prymmer > > > From manney at nwohio.com Fri Dec 5 17:49:49 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: FREE! Trash-80 Model 4's Message-ID: <199712052356.PAA24548@mx3.u.washington.edu> Another person asked first. He asked about "the TRS-80s", which indicates he wants all of them. I e-mailed, mentioning someone else (you) wanted some, and will wait for his e-mail. manney@nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: FREE! Trash-80 Model 4's > Date: Friday, December 05, 1997 3:08 PM > > I'm interested in the TRS-80s you mentioned. How much will it cost? I'm in > PA 17347. > > Thanks, > Tom From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 5 18:44:14 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <199712060044.AA23580@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Dec 1997, D.D. wrote: > I have an HHC in perfect working order and was just wondering what it might be worth to a collector. > > Just curious, > Dave Dales Whatever a collector will pay for it. Me? $5. $10-$15 if it has all the accessories/manuals and is cosmetically sound. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 5 20:39:50 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971205183841.0a7f333e@ricochet.net> At 02:36 PM 12/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hmm. Just thinking about portables in my own collection.... > >Convergent Workslate Yep, definitely very cool. Gotta add it to my wish list. (Hey, christmas is coming! 8^) >Gavilan I know the name, but little else. I'd love to hear more when you get through all the docs & such. >HP 110 (Portable) >HP Portable Plus Y'know, I donated a couple of these to CHAC back when I thought I could get away without actually collecting computers myself... But I'm an HP lover too, so these go on the wish list... (P.S., do you know about the 918DX offer?) >HP Integral PC > - Unix in ROM Oh yeah. Saw yours at the VCF. I *definitely* want one of these. >Osborne 3 > - Somebody please tell me I don't have the *only* one in the world! >Osborne 4 (Vixen) > - Hey, if you're interested in collecting the whole set.... I wouldn't mind having the whole set at all. 8^) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 5 20:39:43 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Spoiled by geezers Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971205183834.0a7f8108@ricochet.net> At 04:36 PM 12/5/97 EST, you wrote: >What exactly is a PX-8? BTW, I have a Mac Portable, which I got because it The PX-8 is a small laptop, kinda similar to the HX-20 or the m100/NEC/m10 crowd, but more in the same class as the NEC Starlet. It's a CP/M machine with an 8(?) line flip-up display and built-in micro-cassette drive. >wasn't working. After connecting the battery directly to the AC power for a >few seconds, it worked. The battery is dead now, though. I use another AC The Mac Portable is an odd critter. It seems it runs off the battery, and the power supply is only there to charge the battery. I'm learning a lot about them right now, in fact. My current idea is to make a doohickey that will feed power in from an external power source to the battery contacts so you don't need the regular power supply at all. Basically, if you don't have a working battery (or something to fool the mac portable into thinking you do) then it won't work. The battery is a 6v lead-acid battery. >adapter for the battery, as well as the normal one. That thing eats power! Why >your battery is alive and mine died, god only knows. The PX-8 runs (iirc -- I only got mine on Wednesday and spent yesterday at a funeral so I haven't played with it much) on AA batteries. It has no floppy or hard drive, and the small LCD screen probably doesn't use much juice. Hence, all you need power for is the RAM and CPU/electronics. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 5 20:21:17 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971205115502.4507ca92@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? How about a portable UNIX workstation with a ~21" gas plasma display? I've actually seen such a beast. The Bethesda Medical Clinic in Washington DC had a few, back in '93. From what I was told they cost about $100,000.00 apiece! I think it was some sort of Sparc. As for size imagine the size of the panel, but about 6 inches wide. I'd have been scared to move one for fear of dropping it! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Dec 5 20:57:26 1997 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Advice wanted for cleaning edge connectors, IC sockets, etc. In-Reply-To: <199712052157.AA01895@world.std.com> References: <199712052157.AA01895@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3491bd6b.92376340@hoser> Yikes. I've done things like that with readily replaceable PC keyboards that had soda spilled in them, etc, but *my front panel*? The one I spent hours and hours testing LEDs for so they'd all be the same brightness, and then worked so hard to get them all soldered on with the same spacing from the front plexiglas? The one with the pretty red and blue paddle-handled toggle switches? *argh! Seriously, though, it's really okay to do this with a front panel that has ICs in sockets, a bunch of fancy toggle switches, etc? It won't corrode the switch parts, or rip the traces and patch wires off the PC board? On Fri, 5 Dec 1997 16:57:52 -0500, allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: >Remove the front panel circuit board. Insure any dress items like the front >pannel overlay are not on it and put it in the dish washer with the usual >cleaner (any dishes too). This will do a very good job and is not caustic. > >It dry it well, if it come out with water in the switches don't panic. >Put it in an oven set real low (you want 140 degrees) and bake it >dry. Lubricate the switches with a contact leaner that has some low >residue lubricant in it. Drying is a no rush thing. FYI soap with >plenty of clean water rinse is the least damaging thing you can use. > >I've done this many, many times (whole production runs!) using this >approach. > >Any switches once dries that are failed/flaky can be replaced easily as >they are common parts. > >Allison > -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Dec 5 20:35:12 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Hot Dog! I got my 11/34 today! Message-ID: <009401bd01f4$70e75a20$957a2599@office1> Today, my father and I drove to Philadelphia to pick-up an 11/34 system. It has been used by the Univ. of Pennsylvania psychology department since its original installation date. It was only decommissioned two months ago because its "user" retired. I haven't taken a complete inventory yet, but here's the haul: 11/34 processor, expansion box and two RK05s in a 6' rack (It's even configured as shown on the cover of the 11/34 hardware book), engineering diagrams, manuals, programming books, 4 disk packs, replacement drive heads, air filters, one spare RK05, and loads of spare boards. I'll start inventorying this week. Also, I have to tear the rack down in order to move it to the basement (it's in my garage now). At 450 lbs., it was too heavy to move downstairs. I'll probably remove the RK05s to move it. Then, I have to drop a 120v/30a line into the shop. More to come... Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Dec 5 21:38:27 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: ??? Message-ID: <199712060338.WAA22697@server1.netpath.net> Is this a list? Hoping this won't show up to a bunch of subscribers... Want to see if I can join the list, and all I have is this obscure e-mail address reference... Didn't mean to piss anyone off if I did by posting this message through the "wrong" channels... Prease Excuse. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Dec 5 22:16:44 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971205115502.4507ca92@ricochet.net> from Uncle Roger at "Dec 5, 97 01:56:15 pm" Message-ID: <199712060416.XAA05581@tigger.exit109.com> > Which brings me to the changed subject... With the receipt of a PX-8 (with > matching P-80 Portable printer!) I kinda feel like I've got a pretty decent > collection of portable computers going. What I've got so far is: > > [...] > > So anyway, I sorta feel like I could not add another machine and still have > a collection of portables that covers the important ones, plus a bunch that > were kinda weird or personally significant. > > But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm > missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, > an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). > Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? Hmm... a few spring to mind... Apple //c (esp if you can score a battery pack and/or LCD panel) Apple Newton 100 Kaypro 2 Kaypro 2000 Radio Shack PC-1 Tandy/AST/Casio Zoomer Visual Commuter And for the ubiquitous help request: Does anyone have the Power Supply pinout for a Kaypro 2000+? Or do I own the last one in creation? <<>> From william at ans.net Fri Dec 5 23:14:48 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around the hamfests in the Chicago area. > How about a portable UNIX workstation with a ~21" gas plasma display? I've > actually seen such a beast. Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the SPARCbooks some time ago. William Donzelli william@ans.net From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 5 23:25:15 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <199712060416.XAA05581@tigger.exit109.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > Which brings me to the changed subject... With the receipt of a PX-8 (with > > matching P-80 Portable printer!) I kinda feel like I've got a pretty decent > > collection of portable computers going. What I've got so far is: > > > > [...] > > > > So anyway, I sorta feel like I could not add another machine and still have > > a collection of portables that covers the important ones, plus a bunch that > > were kinda weird or personally significant. > > > > But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm > > missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, > > an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). > > Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? > > Hmm... a few spring to mind... > > Apple //c (esp if you can score a battery pack and/or LCD panel) > Apple Newton 100 > Kaypro 2 > Kaypro 2000 > Radio Shack PC-1 > Tandy/AST/Casio Zoomer > Visual Commuter > > And for the ubiquitous help request: > > Does anyone have the Power Supply pinout for a Kaypro 2000+? Or do I own > the last one in creation? > <<>> > Not quite, John. I have a rather battered and beaten one also. Unfortunately, I don't know either! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 6 05:34:40 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Hot Dog! I got my 11/34 today! In-Reply-To: <009401bd01f4$70e75a20$957a2599@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Dec 5, 97 09:35:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2774 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971206/a34b8288/attachment.ksh From agammuto at cybersoft.com Sat Dec 6 08:23:13 1997 From: agammuto at cybersoft.com (Andrew Gammuto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Seeking classics for collection Message-ID: <01bd0252$7c7973b0$62008fa8@osmoid> Greetings- I'm new to this list. Anybody willing to sell or know a source for: IMSAI 8080, OSI Challenger, or KIM? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971206/4553ae79/attachment.html From Zeus334 at aol.com Sat Dec 6 13:22:37 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <971206142237_1815043236@mrin53.mx> --Original So anyway, I sorta feel like I could not add another machine and still have a collection of portables that covers the important ones, plus a bunch that were kinda weird or personally significant. --- Well, an interesting one was the Apricot portable, which I have no experience with. I heard it had voice command, and ran off an 8088. From dastar at wco.com Sat Dec 6 14:32:28 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat > like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the > SPARCbooks some time ago. Of course there's always the Unix laptops made possible by our friend Linux. My friend once loaded Linux onto his 386/?? laptop. It worked like a champ. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Dec 6 14:45:20 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: from William Donzelli at "Dec 6, 97 00:14:48 am" Message-ID: <199712062046.PAA09511@tigger.exit109.com> > > >Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for? > > The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable > and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a > virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around > the hamfests in the Chicago area. I can't speak for the other services, but the Army has produced a number of portable computers under it's Common Hardware/Software (CHS) program. CHS I systems included the Handheld Terminal Unit (HTU), an AT-class system which looked (loosely) like a militarized TRS-80 Model 100. These were manufactured by Miltope. Miltope also produced the CHS I Tactical Computer Unit (TCU), a ruggedized HP-9000. The 300 series-based units are starting to show up at the military surplus auctions. Most were upgraded at some time to 9000/370's, but you may still see some 350's and 330's out there. These look like a rugged version of the original Compaq portable (but a *lot* heavier. Associated with the TCU was the Mass Storage Expansion Unit (MSEU), a ruggedized SCSI box which usually contained a 660MB MO disk, a CD-ROM drive, and space for a removable 1/2 height hard disk. Ruggedized HP monitors and Okidata printers were also available as part of the CHS I contract. The TCU, MSEU, and periperals were all ruggedized by Miltope. CHS II was awarded to a GTE/Sun team. The TCU and better are ruggedized Sparc 20's. The HTU is a pentium-based slate-like device with a fold down keyboard (Manufactured by Litton). Also part of CHS, but awarded under a different set of contracts was the Lightweight Computer Unit (LCU), a portable 486 (later Pentium, etc). The LCU comes in two varieties: the v1 and the v2. The early v1 LCU was a Zenith Mastersport (?) 486 (the one with the ISOBar mouse) fitted with a custom underbelly (looks like an oil pan) to give it 3 or 5 ISA slots. Later v1's are pretty much off-the-shelf Compaqs. The V2 LCU is a custom rugged lunchbox-style system with built in LCD and removable hard disk. The earliest v2's were 486/33's with mono screens subsequent upgrades have taken them to Pentium power and color screens. A special version of the V2 LCU for the Army's Applique program has seperate screen/KB and CPU sections, connected by cables. The LCU SOW called for it to act as a general purpose PC, Unix workstation (Interactive, later SCO), and also serve as a platform for test equipment. Consequently, you can see LCU's fitted with cards such as DVM's, IEEE-488 cards, and ethernet cards, all available under the contract. The LCU team is headed by SAIC. <<>> From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Dec 6 19:03:27 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: GRiDCASE 3 info Message-ID: <199712070103.UAA00952@server1.netpath.net> Hello. First post to this list: I am looking for any and all info for the GRiD GRiDCASE 3 laptop. I know all the specs, but I need info for the GRiD-OS and any software and it's availability for the GRiD-OS. As it stands now, I have MS-DOS 2.11 ROM installed, GRiD-OS ROM internal daughter card with various apps installed, and an optional ROM that includes a VT100 terminal. I would really like to find out how to format a disk under GRiD-OS, and any other system commands I can use besides the built-in menu. I have no external (floppy) software for the GRiD-OS, but if anyone has it, I'd pay for copies. Also, if anyone is looking for specs and info for GRiD laptops, please checkout this page I am slowly putting together: http://limbo.netpath.net/hw/GRiD - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Dec 6 11:19:07 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <01bd026b$0f2e7120$0100007f@localhost> >The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable >and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a >virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around >the hamfests in the Chicago area. That would be _so_ cool to see.... can anyone tell me what they looked like? From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Dec 6 21:17:39 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: This weeks finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971207031739.0068f410@pop3.concentric.net> Slow begining but a few finds Friday and Saturday. My biggest find was a Wang laptop with carrying case (black), 14.5 lbs, 512k ram, NICAD battery (dead), 10mb HD, full size keyboard, full size supertwist LCD screen, RS-232 port, SCSI port for external floppy drives, MS-DOS 3.2 and DOS reloaded, builtin modem, uses NEC V30 CPU, 8 Mhz clock rate. It's missing the ext drives 3.5 and 5 1/4 and 18V power supply. This unit has a builtin printer also. Other finds - Socrates infra-red keyboard do not have a base unit here to test it with; 2 Mac Plus keyboards; Apple Personal LaserWriter NT $5 not tested yet; Hitachi external CD-ROM drive (free) not tested yet; Laser128 with power brick not tested yet; a Amiga 500 with mouse, ext 3.5 FD, and power brick not tested yet cost was .80 cents for all of it; HP Thinkjet model 2225C not tested yet; a Zenith luggable model ZFA-138-42 not tested yet $5; about 30 different manuals for many different products like Kennedy model 1600 tape unit;VTech video painter; and last a Apple personal modem model A9M0334. Well that's it for the week, will take a day off Sunday. Still trying to setup the warehouse deal for BIG load of systems. - John Keep computing !! From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Dec 6 23:06:41 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: >But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm >missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, >an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). >Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for I would have to suggest the Commodore SX-64 (I have one, and they are pretty good) and the TRS-80 Model 4P (also one I have, and certainly worth having). Also, although extremely unlikly to be found, there was a C64 laptop made that didn't go into production - I doubt there were many prototypes, but I know they existed. Someone else mentioned the Apricot Portable _ I am desperatly after one myself, and figure it would be a wonderful find. Not a great computer, mind you, but nevertheless a wonderful find. Very stylish. Adam. From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Dec 6 23:14:05 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: >But, I'm certainly no expert, so there may very well be some that I'm >missing that are important. I know I'd like to get a Z88 and a Poquet PC, >an Original Compaq (I've got a Compac [sic] but that's not the same thing). >Can anyone else think of some I should be looking for I forgot one more - the Cambridge Z88. It's not significant because of what it was (being very similar to the Amstrad Notepad, although I am not sure just how similar as I failed to pick up the only one I have seen), but for who made it. Cambridge Computers, I believe, was the computer company set up by Sir Clive Sinclair after the collapse (and sale to Amstrad) of Sinclair. Adam. From jbeolett at ssi.net Sat Dec 6 22:19:14 1997 From: jbeolett at ssi.net (Jeff Beoletto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: One collector down temporarily. Message-ID: Unfortunatly, my good friend Daniel Seagraves (dseagrav) a frequent contributer to this list is temporarily out of service due to the death of his grandmother last night. He is expected back Tuesday. I feel sorry for him being he is one of my closest friends. I don't reguraly post to this list and this doesn't really fit in to classic computing other than the fact that he's a collector and he's out of service for a few days. From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 01:17:59 1997 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Help, Dyna Micro Message-ID: <348A4DA7.739A@worldnet.att.net> Hi, I found today a Dyna Micro. This is all I know about the thingy. It is apparently a learning system or a prototping system. Unfortunately the board was completely nude (only sockets). Does anybody have any info on it, is it worth salvaging? It has a 4x4 keypad on the bottom right corner and a vero style prototyping area on the left side, the circuitry is above there is a row of 24 LEDs room for a processor (whaterver it might be) and a couple ROMS the rest might be RAM and glue. On the brighter side I also found two Osbone I in perfect condition with one set of disks for $7 :) :) ------------------------------------------------------------ Francois Auradon Visit the Sanctuary at: http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From william at ans.net Sun Dec 7 01:46:51 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <01bd026b$0f2e7120$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: > >The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable > >and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a > >virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around > >the hamfests in the Chicago area. > That would be _so_ cool to see.... can anyone tell me what they looked like? They looked really boring. They were not battlefield units - just a rather thick slab with a flat screen. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Bryn at bwc.org Sun Dec 7 15:24:11 1997 From: Bryn at bwc.org (Bryn Deamer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Epson PX-8 finally dead with no hope? Message-ID: <348B13FA.44B0@bwc.org> Over the last couple of years my PX-8 has suffered a slow degredation of its quality of life. Firstly the old batteries gave out, but when these were replaced with a set from Tauber Electronics of 4901 Morena Blvd, San Diego, Ca., the replacement set took a looooong time to charge up, and in the process burnt out a transistor - GRB - R6 in the attached Multi-unit (64) board. Nothing would work. So I detached the multi unit and limped on with the original 12kb of memory. However, the tape drive also stopped writing correctly. If I wrote to it I could no longer access any thing from it. But still we limped along for over 2 years, by downloading through the serial port via a VT200 cable to the Unix system at work using the Term program, each time we'd written four pages of text. But finaly the it is also not powering up, and all the advise I read in the archives of this list - particularly: To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Epson PX-8, no power up From: Paul E Coad Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:16:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <33DB9664.7DF771DF@rain.org> AND To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Epson PX-8, no power up From: Marvin Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 11:41:40 -0700 References: Etc. has been to no avail. All the ROMS are in, the batteries are connected, the Power units work etc. etc... Is it time to turn the unit into a boat anchor? It has served us so well for so long it seems there should be a more fitting way of saying goodbye. I'd be willing to mail it anyhere, but it was repairable when it left Israel, I doubt it would be by the time it got to where it is going. Now I'm left with an orphaned P-80X printer - I guess I may as will ditch it as well. Pity... regards, Bryn Deamer -------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: bryn@bwc.org : Bryn and Sherna Deamer URL : www.poboxes.com/bryn : P.O. Box 155, 31001 Ph: 972-4-8358457 fx: 8358591 : Haifa, Israel ---------------------------------END-------------------------------- From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Dec 7 05:57:09 1997 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection References: <01bd026b$0f2e7120$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: <348A8F15.6637@digiweb.com> Hotze wrote: > > >The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable > >and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a > >virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around > >the hamfests in the Chicago area. > That would be _so_ cool to see.... can anyone tell me what they looked like? A company called "Megamos Composants" here is France has been advertising something similar for some months now. here is a translation of the ad: FF 895 [about ?90 or $145] 16 bit processor 512K ROM, 256K RAM extensible to 32Mb Touch screen STN-LCD 320x128 (16 lines of 40 characters) RS232 connection with PC 2 PCMCIA type 2 68 pin slots 2.4 volt 1200 mA battery and 3 V lithium 6 hours usage, charge indicator and auto off Compatible with Windows 3.xx, Windows 95, MS-DOS Complete with on battery, charger and manual in French Options: Connection software FF 85 Connection cable INDEX - PC FF 230 I have been tempted but the its a little pricey as a toy. Formt he last line, the name of the unit may be "INDEX" and tha fact that the manual is in French would seem to indicate that these are French systems. If anyone is interested I would be willing to procure and ship the units on your behalf. Regards -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 7 07:35:25 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Depreciation References: <3485462B.616BCB76@enterprise.net> <3.0.3.32.19971202123615.009ae3f0@mail.northernway.net> <3.0.5.32.19971203082153.00fd1d40@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <348AA61D.708823FC@cnct.com> Kip Crosby wrote: > In the spring of 1984, I ran out of hard disk space for the first time. My > > At about the same time, I urgently needed some DSQD (770K on that computer) > 5.25 diskettes. From my computer supplier, a box of ten would have been > $85, but he was out of stock, so I had to go to the ONE office supply store > in San Francisco that stocked them, and pay $110. You should have been able to get them at your local Radio Shack Computer Center -- for about $79.95, as I recall. That's the media the Tandy 2000 used, and that machine and supplies for it arrived during autumn '83. (Oh, yeah, I guess your supplier had them at the same price, what with sales tax having that extra percent or so up in the Bay Area). -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Dec 7 09:13:25 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: : Re: Hot Dog! I got my 11/34 today! Message-ID: <003101bd0324$172441c0$5a6e2599@office1> On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:34:40 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: >>Well done!!! Thanks! This has been a long time in coming (since October). Unfortunately, I have to go down there again because the guy there e-mailed me and said that he "found the right-hand panel for the rack." Dooooh! >>If you ever need to change the heads on an RK05 you need to get an >>alignment disk. I'm rather too far away to pop round with mine. Is there a way to make a copy of that disk pack, or is it a factory-made item> >>Have you clamped the RK05 heads (remove the top covers and there's a 'L' >>shaped clamp on top of the positioner. Use that to hold the voice coil in >>the rearmost position)? If not, do it now. There's a battery pack (4 off >>1/2AA NiCds) on top of the RK05 PSU that's supposed to keep the heads >>retracted (and to retract them if there's a power failure with a pack >>mounted), but it's probably decayed by now. I don't recall seeing a battery pack when I opened the RK05's, but yes, I did lock the servos before moving the computer. I also, looked at the specs for the computer -- I definitely have to drop a new electrical service to my shop. Start-up current on the two RK05's alone is 20a at 125v. >>I'd advise you to take all the units out of the rack to move it. With 2 >>people helping, you can carry an RK05 or PDP11/34 CPU box fully >>assembled, but I'd not want to carry more than 1 at a time. You should be >>able to move the rack with all the slide rails still in place, I think The PDP is in my garage right now. What a trip it was trying to tilt it up while getting it out of the van. It took 3 people to make sure that no one got crushed! >>Enjoy your new toy - it's a great machine I can't wait to get it up and running. Thanks for the tips! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Dec 7 09:42:55 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: new additions (long) Message-ID: <41032ceb.348ac401@aol.com> this weekend brought me several interesting items. someone from south carolina noticed my name was on the classic computer mailing list and emailed me about some machines he wanted to give me so i met him halfway and picked up a truckload of items. i got: 2 xycom cpm workstations which are big old one piece units, complete with 8 inch floppy drives. an external 10 meg hard drive unit. add on floppy unit for a total of 3 drives a giant and extremely heavy box full of original documentation and cpm 1.1 system disks/wordstar/spellstar/business software. ~200 disks total, and some are still blank and never used! also got a decwriter on casters and all the cables to hook everything up. i have not powered up the machines yet, as i'm letting them acclimate for 24 hours since they had to ride in the back of the truck in 20 degree weather. at a radio rally the same day i got: mac se fdhd ibm basic primer handbook still in shrinkwrap. mca modem card apple //c power supply in original plastic wrap. ( i didnt know it was supposed to be so white!) some C= 64 stuff, including some manuals, a print interface and a modem in the original box with a price tag of over $100. i even got the quantumlink software in a never opened box. and my best find, a tandy 102! complete with owner's guide, ps, and matching battery operated cassette recorder. the guy wanted $30 for it, but my girlfriend's smile got the computer for $20 lol. david From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Dec 7 11:40:45 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Old Systems Available Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971207094045.0093ec60@agora.rdrop.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2394 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971207/9beadc55/attachment.bin From sinasohn at ricochet.net Sun Dec 7 16:23:21 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971207142155.294fda34@ricochet.net> At 12:14 AM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote: >The military once procured a bunch of XT-like machines that were portable >and keyboardless. Everything was done thru a touchscreen, including a >virtual keyboard. About five years ago, there were a bunch floating around >the hamfests in the Chicago area. The GridPad 1910 that I have has a 'virtual' keyboard. Nice machine; I just wish I could find some GPS/Mapping software that would run on it so I could mount it in my Land Rover... (Or a 486/pentium version?) >> How about a portable UNIX workstation with a ~21" gas plasma display? I've >> actually seen such a beast. > >Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat >like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the >SPARCbooks some time ago. The problem with the Sun notebooks (which I'd *love* to have if anyone wants to get rid of one) is that they're darned expensive and I'm poor. 8^) I suspect a unix workstation with a 21" gas plasma display ain't gonna be cheap either! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 7 20:57:51 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix References: <199712052324.SAA08266@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <348B622F.1240368D@cnct.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > These list of newsgroups given here are good but bit standoffish and > they EXPECTs you to READ and read. Real weird. what is suitable uses > or hard to solve problems is when you can ask there. Yeah. Literacy can be a bitch sometimes. Hell, I remember a time when "computer literacy" had "literacy" as a prerequisite. Nowadays everybody expects to figure everything out from little hieroglyphs. That don't work for me -- I read and use a command line. Intuitive? Intuition is for illiterate women (NOT ALLISON -- don't hit me!) > > I'm installing slackware 3.4 (2.0.30) from the zip disks to my old > compaq LTE 386s/20 via parallel port. Hoo Whoo! > Every time installer sniffs into disks (direct d/l'ed in proper > places, I get complaint from installer but things get installed > anyway. How I make this installer happy for once all? Can't help you there. I use Yggdrassil, Red Hat and Caldera. Any time now I'll add SuSe and Deneb. (Yes, to my shame, I've got just enough recent Intel boxen -- but I've also got my old Tandy 6000 and AT&T 7300s, so don't call me a quitter). > And have Happy christmas/ > Happy new year to all! Happy holidays. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 7 21:35:06 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection References: Message-ID: <348B6AEA.AAE13E51@cnct.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat > > like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the > > SPARCbooks some time ago. > > Of course there's always the Unix laptops made possible by our friend > Linux. My friend once loaded Linux onto his 386/?? laptop. It worked > like a champ. I've been running Linux on portables since my first DEC 325SL about four years ago. What's this "once" stuff? I go back and forth every day with a (this year) Everex StepNote P133 running Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 with Red Hat CDE. Oh, there _is_ a 300MB partition that still has Win95 (it came preloaded) for playing noisy games. I boot that partition maybe every other week, it's not the default. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Dec 6 23:52:31 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <348B6AEA.AAE13E51@cnct.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971206235231.00929360@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Ward Donald Griffiths III head-scratched, yawned, then typed: >Sam Ismail wrote: >> Of course there's always the Unix laptops made possible by our friend >> Linux. My friend once loaded Linux onto his 386/?? laptop. It worked >> like a champ. >I've been running Linux on portables since my first DEC 325SL about >four years ago. What's this "once" stuff? I go back and forth >every day with a (this year) Everex StepNote P133 running Caldera >OpenLinux 1.1 with Red Hat CDE. Oh, there _is_ a 300MB partition >that still has Win95 (it came preloaded) for playing noisy games. I >boot that partition maybe every other week, it's not the default. Sam had it wrong -- His friend loaded Linux "once," not the 542,000 times required by Win95 before it might last 1/2 hour between crashes!!! ;-) Oh, Roger: My vote for the "add-to-list laptop:" The first internal floppy-based laptop, the Tandy 600. OEM'd by Zenith (not Kyocera like the M100/T102/T200) and I believe somewhat rare as they went over like a lead balloon (too bad - pretty good machine). I run a Tandy 600 listserver and a Tandy 100/102/200 listserver as well, if anyone wants info, please feel free to inquire. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Dec 7 21:52:07 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712080352.WAA09422@server1.netpath.net> Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following config: Zenith Supersport SX 386sx-16 640k 110mb HD VGA mono I know about minix, but am looking for something a little more robust, since I have heard TCP/IP and other such apps don't run well or not at all under minix. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'll use it. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Dec 7 17:17:34 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971206235231.00929360@mail.northernway.net> References: <348B6AEA.AAE13E51@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199712080412.XAA28696@mail.cgocable.net> > ;-) Ward Donald Griffiths III head-scratched, yawned, then typed: > > >Sam Ismail wrote: > > >> Of course there's always the Unix laptops made possible by our friend > >> Linux. My friend once loaded Linux onto his 386/?? laptop. It worked > >> like a champ. Slackware 3.4 (2.0.30) Instead of that "standoffish" newsgroups first, I try here once, I have a problem w/ linux and notebook LTE 386s/20 with 10mb RAM is more like a Peecee in many ways BUT: Since the bios does not have flexiablity so I chose appox 150mb in the bios and used a dyrnota quantum 514 2.5" hd in it (hint: to help lilo to boot). Setting up the lilo in normal way resulted in L 04 error and scrolling of 04's or 00's and looked in lilo's README. Tried both linear (better) and plugged the append = "C/H/S" resulted in LI and do nothing. I can access and work with stuff in hd with a bootdisk created during the installation. /dev/hda is whole 514mb hd. /dev/hda1 is swap type 82 of 20mb worth. /dev/hda2 is linux type 83 and active, also lilo is pointed at this partition of course! Been at this for hours with very little progress! PS: I'm still trying to get the 1.2.13 kernel complied with a ppa driver added but bombs out when trying to use ppa.h and it's good copy because of that gzip'ed file transferred in by disk and off the net. Thanks! > >I've been running Linux on portables since my first DEC 325SL about > >four years ago. What's this "once" stuff? I go back and forth > >every day with a (this year) Everex StepNote P133 running Caldera > >OpenLinux 1.1 with Red Hat CDE. Oh, there _is_ a 300MB partition > >that still has Win95 (it came preloaded) for playing noisy games. I > >boot that partition maybe every other week, it's not the default. > > Sam had it wrong -- His friend loaded Linux "once," not the 542,000 times > required by Win95 before it might last 1/2 hour between crashes!!! ;-) (!!) I also run win95sloth. :) What crashes??? :) None. That is possible by having proper, decent hardware I put in. Ran this computer without powercycling for nearly every 1 week or so now using netscape 3.01 gold, free agent, pegasus mail and runs odd programs from time to time. And Daily use. And power cycle occurred when attaching or removing zip drive. snip! > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Dec 7 17:41:45 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix In-Reply-To: <348B622F.1240368D@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199712080436.XAA02308@mail.cgocable.net> > jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > These list of newsgroups given here are good but bit standoffish and > > they EXPECTs you to READ and read. Real weird. what is suitable uses > > or hard to solve problems is when you can ask there. > > Yeah. Literacy can be a bitch sometimes. Hell, I remember a time > when "computer literacy" had "literacy" as a prerequisite. Nowadays > everybody expects to figure everything out from little hieroglyphs. > That don't work for me -- I read and use a command line. Intuitive? > Intuition is for illiterate women (NOT ALLISON -- don't hit me!) sssssSSSSSSSSSSS whiiieees.....My RANTIN' runs up to full turbine speed and suddenly roared, spittling out 8 mach-diamonds... Hmmm...I hate auto-hints popups if mouse pointer left in one place around those dumb icons, all those cpu wasting uneeded graphics and upset with java filled webpages (discovered I can't enjoy some webs without the java stuff enabled, if you missed, it's like blank page). Really enjoy the ascii stuff for it's simplicaty and speed leaving the graphics for enjoyments and play games. I can't view without java like www.iomega.com for example. And I'm mad at push technology viewer that I can't turn off the moving AD's in one window, I'm totally turned off by this and java used for ad's. I appreciate java in very specific, minor ways and push technolgy without ad's, just important info scrolling by. Also those spammers, gathering our info as we go by in webpages. Point in example: few webpages started requiring freebie registering; read: your private info. Also expecially added insult to my problems that I had to d/l the explorer IN ORDER to see and use microsoft's site. If you do not believe me about this weirdness, just let me know and I will explain more if anyone wanted. If something comes with self-squawking stuff gets the boot, turned off or in some cases total eraseure. I think orignal web inventor(s) did not made this happen, business did push java and such in order to annoy us and graw on our infos. My ranting winds down... whew blowing out the smoke... my pleas...snipped > Can't help you there. I use Yggdrassil, Red Hat and Caldera. Any > time now I'll add SuSe and Deneb. (Yes, to my shame, I've got just > enough recent Intel boxen -- but I've also got my old Tandy 6000 and > AT&T 7300s, so don't call me a quitter). Whimpers... :) Oh well, if you have good idea of using a cranky pc that requires special treatments to lilo to get this work then I'm all ears. Troll Have a Happy Xmas and New Year to all! > > And have Happy christmas/ > > Happy new year to all! > > Happy holidays. > -- > Ward Griffiths > Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, > that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Dec 7 17:51:03 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712080352.WAA09422@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <199712080445.XAA03596@mail.cgocable.net> > Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following > config: > > Zenith Supersport SX > 386sx-16 > 640k > 110mb HD > VGA mono > > I know about minix, but am looking for something a little more robust, since > I have heard TCP/IP and other such apps don't run well or not at all under > minix. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'll use it. Please dig up more memory at least 4-8mb and plug in and you will be happy, the hd is tad tight but doable, but you could swap the hd out for bigger ones. I think this one uses standard IDE 3.5" or 2.5" hd. I had minix on a SLT 386s/20 with stock 2mb and 270mb but due to s/w and popularity, prefer linux and trying to do it on my lte 386s/20 instead, look for the latest emails for this problems... If the bios does not support bigger hd, just pick one to help lilo to boot, the linux does not use bios once running, it will see all the hd space. Neat feature MHO. That CPU 386sx/16 performance will be main problem especially trying to compiling things will be days! (mine is 25mhz instead of 20mhz with 4k cache helped some on that linux! But not yet to compiling the kernel yet because of current problems to trackle namely, lilo.) Troll > - John Higginbotham > - limbo.netpath.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 7 23:09:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Interest In Unix Message-ID: <199712080509.AA08895@world.std.com> Message-ID: <348B88B7.6AFB5087@cnct.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > > Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following > config: > > Zenith Supersport SX > 386sx-16 > 640k > 110mb HD > VGA mono > > I know about minix, but am looking for something a little more robust, since > I have heard TCP/IP and other such apps don't run well or not at all under > minix. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'll use it. With that configuration, the _ONLY_ Unix-like OS's are Xenix 1.0, Venix and QNX and _maybe_ two or three other items pre-1988. With more memory, you have more choices and many of them are functional -- those listedabove weren't adequate for their _own_ time, although SCO learned fromRadio Shack improved quickly. I know a SuperSport SX will take more memory and I have run SCO Unix SysV on one -- slowly, but it worked OK. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Dec 8 00:00:45 1997 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971208170045.00b87ae0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:14 AM 12/6/97 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat >like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the >SPARCbooks some time ago. There was a neat Sony? MIPS based Unix portable that I played with about 7 years ago. Large B&W LCD display, 500Mb disk in a box not much bigger than a Toshiba 5200. Really neat and really expensive. I had one on evaluation for a week or so and it was cool running X at home (of course, these days X is just run of the mill). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 8 00:15:22 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712080352.WAA09422@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: >Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following >config: > >Zenith Supersport SX >386sx-16 >640k >110mb HD >VGA mono > >I know about minix, but am looking for something a little more robust, since >I have heard TCP/IP and other such apps don't run well or not at all under >minix. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'll use it. I'm afraid Minix is it. If you can increase the memory to 2Mb, 4Mb would be a lot better you could get Linux installed. I've run Linux with X-Windows on a Twinhead 386sx which was a 386SX/16 with the Mathcoprocessor added, stepped up to 4Mb RAM, and the 40Mb HD replaced with a 350Mb HD. I ran this from January of '94 through March '95 when I needed a laptop and couldn't afford a new one, I'd bought this new in '90. It was a real step down from running Linux on my 486DX/33 with 20Mb RAM. Back in '94 there was a "Lite" version of X-Windows for reduced configurations, and it ran pretty good, don't know if such a thing still exists. One thing you don't want to do with a 386SX/16 is any programming, it takes forever to compile! Although small scripts are doable. On an not so interesting note, the 40Mb HD now functions as a CP/M disk for my Pentium, and the Laptop is now a general purpose terminal. The 486, well it's the Server that ties my various platforms together, running Linux of course. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 8 00:21:58 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971207142155.294fda34@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >>> How about a portable UNIX workstation with a ~21" gas plasma display? I've >>> actually seen such a beast. >> >>Yes, portable Unix machines do exist! The SPARCstation Voyager is somewhat >>like what you describe. It is a luggable monster, and was replaced by the >>SPARCbooks some time ago. > >The problem with the Sun notebooks (which I'd *love* to have if anyone wants >to get rid of one) is that they're darned expensive and I'm poor. 8^) I >suspect a unix workstation with a 21" gas plasma display ain't gonna be >cheap either! Well, how much would a $100,000.00 system drop in value in 4-5 years? As for Sun notebooks, the only ones I've seen are the "Tadpoles". Those are some sweet notebooks, better yet, any of them I've seen anything about are nice and sturdy. I seem to recall one model had a Titanium case! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From william at ans.net Mon Dec 8 00:51:25 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, how much would a $100,000.00 system drop in value in 4-5 years? As > for Sun notebooks, the only ones I've seen are the "Tadpoles". Those are > some sweet notebooks, better yet, any of them I've seen anything about are > nice and sturdy. I seem to recall one model had a Titanium case! I have never seen a Voyager for sale on comp.sys.sun.wanted, but I imagine if one were to show up, the Sun collectors would fight over it. I doubt many were made. Original price was $14K. The SPARCbooks ("Tadpoles") tend to go for at least $1.5K for the low end ones. William Donzelli william@ans.net From mcneight at umich.edu Mon Dec 8 01:07:39 1997 From: mcneight at umich.edu (Neil McNeight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: Greetings. I have recently developed an interest in collecting classic computers and after (mostly) lurking on this list, I have a question that you all might be able to answer. How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding the original manuals or shipping boxes for it. Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter? Thanks for any input. -Neil ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- "There is more to life than increasing its speed." | Neil McNeight -Mahatma Gandhi | mcneight@umich.edu ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Mon Dec 8 04:11:28 1997 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: <01bd03c1$a5d65320$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it >worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? > I think it's worth saving anything that might eventually fill in part of a jigsaw. >For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the >motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the >University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was >lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding >the original manuals or shipping boxes for it. . . >Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by >purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I >can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about >any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with >Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter? Mostly, you will be very lucky to pick up the bits you want. I think eventually a swap culture will arrive but you need to have something to swap with. We are in a rescue-from-the-garbage phase at the moment, so I believe in hoarding everything I find ..... that I can find space for that is! Hans From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 04:40:23 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712081040.FAA26691@server1.netpath.net> This will mainly be used as a dial-up machine to my service provider for checking mail, etc. I know I can do it much easier in DOS (with this machine), but I'm looking for a challenge. :) At 10:15 PM 12/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >pretty good, don't know if such a thing still exists. One thing you don't >want to do with a 386SX/16 is any programming, it takes forever to compile! >Although small scripts are doable. > >On an not so interesting note, the 40Mb HD now functions as a CP/M disk for >my Pentium, and the Laptop is now a general purpose terminal. The 486, >well it's the Server that ties my various platforms together, running Linux >of course. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 04:50:57 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:51 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712081050.FAA28808@server1.netpath.net> At 11:51 PM 12/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >Please dig up more memory at least 4-8mb and plug in and you will be >happy, the hd is tad tight but doable, but you could swap the hd out >for bigger ones. I think this one uses standard IDE 3.5" or 2.5" hd. Sure does. I just pulled the 40mb out and put this 104mb HD in (not 110mb like I said earlier). No problems whatsoever. The SS sx doesn't have a user defined drive type, so the largest drive in BIOS is 220mb, but the 104mb was the only thing laying around. he SS sx will support up to 8mb, but the memory upgrades cost $58 each from what I could find on the internet. If my budget allowed, I'd get it, but would like to find something cheaper. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Dec 8 07:04:30 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: <01bd03d9$d2841520$0100007f@localhost> For me; at least; the interest is not for profit. It is for my own personal enjoyment; and for history. If every Apple ][ is thrown away; once very-common items become very rare. -----Original Message----- From: Olminkhof To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Importance of "original" parts >>How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it >>worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? >> > >I think it's worth saving anything that might eventually fill in part of a >jigsaw. > >>For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the >>motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the >>University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was >>lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding >>the original manuals or shipping boxes for it. >. >. >>Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by >>purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I >>can even find one, or should I just use the machine as is and forget about >>any attempts at historical accuracy? At what point do I wind up with >>Washington's Hatchet, or does it even matter? > >Mostly, you will be very lucky to pick up the bits you want. I think >eventually a swap culture will arrive but you need to have something to swap >with. We are in a rescue-from-the-garbage phase at the moment, so I believe >in hoarding everything I find ..... that I can find space for that is! > >Hans > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 8 02:12:28 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712081050.FAA28808@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <199712081307.IAA24108@mail.cgocable.net> Hi John, there's way.... > At 11:51 PM 12/7/97 +0000, you wrote: > > >Please dig up more memory at least 4-8mb and plug in and you will be > >happy, the hd is tad tight but doable, but you could swap the hd out > >for bigger ones. I think this one uses standard IDE 3.5" or 2.5" hd. > > Sure does. I just pulled the 40mb out and put this 104mb HD in (not 110mb > like I said earlier). No problems whatsoever. The SS sx doesn't have a user > defined drive type, so the largest drive in BIOS is 220mb, but the 104mb was > the only thing laying around. he SS sx will support up to 8mb, but the > memory upgrades cost $58 each from what I could find on the internet. If my > budget allowed, I'd get it, but would like to find something cheaper. > You're not only one with little money, I was able to score a used 8mb card for my lte 386s/20 for about 33 USD or (90 CDN, I'm canadian) with shipping included only thing that made it go up was they shipped by UPS which is costly, so I warned repeatadly to them. Oh well. But I still suggest that you dig up a working conner 200mb if it's 1" x 3.5" because this is consistently low power I can find most of time or any 200-500mb 2.5" drive. They can't cost more than 50 USD which I did with a 500mb 2.5" ide. Then plug that 104 or 220mb (if this drive is more than 220mb) selection in cmos and linux will take care of any remaining space not covered by cmos selection. But if you use 2.5" with 3.5" adapter, the power requirement drops, adding runtime to your battery. :) Try the comp.sys.laptops and comp.sys.zenith newsgroups. I was able to score 4 things cheaply this way. empty Lunchbox, complete but tad sick (now fixed) SLT 386s/20 (needs more memory and no luck with series of requests on newsgroup in this regard. :( (!) ) with docking station, SLT 286, SLT series broken power brick (model 2687 two burnt resistors, no luck again on newsgroups, anyone here with this brick please contact me with BIG plea! This one has deatachable DC cord, the model 2681 does not). Finally, a complete, unbroken seal original packaged LTE 386s/20 motherboard! Recently scored a deal on a docking station for LTE 386s/20 for $50 shipping included. All of this happened within 9 months period, paced by my budget. I'm most interested in getting that SLT 386s/20 up to speed with more memory because this is one that can take standard 3.5" drives. Troll (this is nickname, realname: Jason D.) PS: LTE 286 was my first used notebook for short term but sold it to afford a NOS discountiuned line LTE 386s/20 in late summer of '93. > - John Higginbotham > - limbo.netpath.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Dec 8 08:34:27 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts In-Reply-To: from "Neil McNeight" at Dec 8, 97 02:07:39 am Message-ID: <9712081434.AA00411@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971208/54cdc120/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 8 03:54:49 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts In-Reply-To: <9712081434.AA00411@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Neil McNeight" at Dec 8, 97 02:07:39 am Message-ID: <199712081449.JAA09341@mail.cgocable.net> > > How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it > > worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? > > 99 times out of a 100, I'd prefer to have the "hacked" computer rather > than the "original". At least in the minicomputer world, just about every > modificiation is there for a very important purpose - it either fixes > a bug in the hardware or adds an actual enhancement. If the modification > was absolutely useful at the time it was made - and is something that > every sane original owner did - then it's part of the culture of the > machine! > > Some computers are basically unusable in their original form. Take the > Altair 8800's original power supply. Please! What's this mod is done to it to make it useful? I'm born in '72 so I did not see these early stuff, only saw machines in 80's onwards. :) ) > > I don't know about other folks, but I don't collect computers to get > pristine working examples that are filed away forever with "do > not touch" signs on them :-). Exactly! Any hacks, mods or such that makes a machine more useful unless some can stand the originals in form. For me, I rather hack it to usefulness even it's a original NOS and smells new. In Mac Plus, a resistor has to be cut and moved, maybe removed when configuring the memory upgrade for example. Sheesh, I wished that Mac Plus has capacity to take more than 4mb stock. Jason D. > Tim. > > From roger at sinasohn.com Mon Dec 8 10:30:26 1997 From: roger at sinasohn.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971208082914.4b970a2c@ricochet.net> I want to thank everyone for their comments on my collection. There are still quite a few machines that I don't have, but at least now I think I have a pretty complete wanted list! 8^) The suggestions from the list: Convergent Workslate Gavilan HP 110 (Portable) HP Portable Plus HP Integral PC Osborne 3 Osborne 4 (Vixen) Apple //c Apple Newton 100 Kaypro 2 Kaypro 2000 Radio Shack PC-1 Tandy/AST/Casio Zoomer Visual Commuter Apricot portable Commodore SX-64 TRS-80 Model 4P Tandy 600 And some more of my own: Dynalogic Hyperion Sinclair QL Atari STacy Atari ST Book Atari STPad TRS-80 Model 102 TRS-80 Model 200 Kaypro (All Models) Amstrad Notepad (NC-100) Otrona Attache STM Systems Baby! 1 Teleram T-3000 Teleram Model 4000 Teleram Model 5000 Olivetti M10 --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 8 10:42:15 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: <199712081642.AA23930@world.std.com> <> 99 times out of a 100, I'd prefer to have the "hacked" computer rather <> than the "original". At least in the minicomputer world, just about ever <> modificiation is there for a very important purpose - it either fixes <> a bug in the hardware or adds an actual enhancement. If the modificatio More true in the micro would where standards were evolving faster that the the hardware could be made. <> was absolutely useful at the time it was made - and is something that <> every sane original owner did - then it's part of the culture of the <> machine! The last line is where history resides. Hacks were part of the culture and remain a legacy. Allison From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 9 11:13:53 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971208082914.4b970a2c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971209121353.007c9680@netpath.net> Roger, do you ever come across any GRiD laptops? At 10:30 AM 12/8/97 -0600, you wrote: >I want to thank everyone for their comments on my collection. There are >still quite a few machines that I don't have, but at least now I think I >have a pretty complete wanted list! 8^) > >The suggestions from the list: > >Convergent Workslate >Gavilan >HP 110 (Portable) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Dec 8 11:20:49 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts In-Reply-To: <199712081642.AA23930@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 8, 97 11:42:15 am Message-ID: <9712081720.AA06482@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971208/d3349375/attachment.ksh From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Dec 8 11:53:04 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Neil McNeight wrote: > > Greetings. > > I have recently developed an interest in collecting classic computers and > after (mostly) lurking on this list, I have a question that you all might > be able to answer. OK, here's my $0.02... > > How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it > worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? Important to _whom_? I collect computers for one reason and one reason only - I enjoy doing so. I enjoy using them, I enjoy repairing them, and I enjoy hacking them. I do not collect them because I have this belief that in 20 years time I'll be able to sell them and retire on the money. Now, I want to have working computers. That doesn't mean that I only accept working computers, or even only complete computers. It means that I try to repair non-working ones and make/obtain missing parts for incomplete ones. So virtually _all_ machines in my collection are non-original in some way. For example, I have a DEC MINC (Modular INstrument Computer) that I've pulled the 11/03 CPU card from. It's got one end of a DW11-B (Unibus-Qbus interface) in place of said CPU card. The other end of the DW11-B is in my 11/45 CPU. So I now have something that DEC never built - a modular real-time I/O system on an 11/45. Unoriginal? Sure. Interesting, and worth doing? IMHO yes. My IBM PC/AT has also been hacked a lot. There's 2 extra EPROMs on the motherboard containing a patched hard disk table. And a couple of TTL chips to enable them. The IDE card has a piece of stripboard kludged onto it to give it a connector for an 'active' LED - something that was missed out of the original card. The motherboard is the original IBM one, though. IMHO a PC-class machine has to have at least the original motherboard to be 'interesting' (mainly because I have all the IBM schematics and very few others). But my XT's and portables all have the 640K mod done to them. One of my classic PERQs has a QIC-02 interface wire-wrapped in spare space on the I/O card. PERQ systems used another slot for that. And I've not even started on repairs where I tend to use any component that's electrically equivalent (I repair to chip level, so the issue of unoriginal boards doesn't come up). I've used FAST TTL to fix PDP11's. The chopper transistor in one of my VT100 PSUs is not original, and nor are many of the components in my PERQ 1 PSU. My RK11-C has a chip sellotaped to one of the flip-chip cards and linked up with kludge-wires. And so on... I guess what it comes down to is that the architecture _MUST_ be preserved (a pentium motherboard in a DEC BA11-K is a mess!), as far as possible the circuitry must be preserved (so that you do use electrically equivalent components when you do repairs, and don't just swap boards), and mods to improve functionality are fine, even if done today. > > For example: I have an original Mac 128k. However, I believe that the > motherboard has been upgraded to the 512k "Fat" Mac. I purchased it at the > University of Michigan's Property Disposal warehouse, which means I was > lucky to find a matching keyboard and mouse and I have no hope of finding > the original manuals or shipping boxes for it. > > Should I even bother to restore this machine to it's original state by > purchasing an original (but not _the_ original) motherboard, assuming I I'd probably look for an original motherboard, if only because it'd be nice to have one. As to which one I kept in the machine, well, that's up to you. But I'd certainly use the machine as it is now - what have you got to lose? > -Neil -tony From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 8 11:56:49 1997 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Linux on old PCs Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971208115649.009fab30@pc> There's an interesting 16-bit Linux for old PCs call ELKS at http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html . Minimal CPU and RAM requirements. - John www.threedee.com/jcm From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 8 12:05:49 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: <199712081805.AA24862@world.std.com> I understand that you may have a heathkit analog computer for sale. I am trying to obtain copies of the manuals (assembly & experiments). I would be be interested in purchasing the unit if it still is available. Please reply with price, condition, manuals. Thanks // mt (mtaylor@hach.com) From scottk5 at ibm.net Sun Dec 7 18:24:54 1997 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Robert Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Subscription still active? References: <34733C68.461A1ED2@batelco.com.bh> Message-ID: <348B3E56.420E@ibm.net> HOTZE wrote: > > Okay... I started all this stuff... and I'll end it... it *was* a mistake.... > but now, at least we know that until something BIG happens, the 10 yr. definition > is safe... but I don't think that anyone (At least I wouldn't) would get really > mad at someone who makes a reference to something new (IE Yeah, the OS A was kind > of like Windows 95), or if they bend the 10 years to 9 1/2, or 9 3/4, or even > call something 10 years old when the technology (Not actual system design) Is 10 > yrs old, so forth... or if anyone asks about emulation software for a computer a > made in 1984 for a Pentium PC... > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > 1) I vote strongly in favor of keeping the 10-year rule. It's simple, it's > > > hard to start an argument over, and it has worked wonderfully so far. It is > > > a "moving window", but that's appropriate. Time is moving on... > > > > I think the 10 year rule is working well, but that it should continue to > > be treated flexibly. No, I don't want a flood of posts on Pentium PC's > > here, but lets face it - the AMT DAP (Distributed Array Processor) is > > only 9 years old, but it's such a strange machine (NO WAY could you call > > it a PC clone, or an _anything_ clone :-)) that I don't think people > > would mind if they were discussed here. > > > > > it!*") Worse, 5 years from now Tony may have been hit by a truck (er... > > > lorry. and no offense intended, Tony!) and no one will be able to help you > > > > No offence taken - You're correct. I spend a lot of my time working on > > high-voltage systems (both at work and at home - I'm not afraid to dive > > into a monitor or an SMPS). Yes, I'm careful. Yes, I check everything as > > I go. But accidents do happen. > > > > That's one reason why I try to ensure that like-minded people learn how > > to repair/test things without me. If you ask me to fix your PSU, you'll > > get a (probably) polite refusal. If you want help in sorting it out > > yourself, you'll get me digging out printsets (if I have them), going > > through it, suggesting tests, etc. Yes, it does take a lot more time that > > way, but IMHO it's worth it. > > > > > - Mark > > > > -tony Sorry to have to post this administrivia to the list, but I appear to have gotten unsubscribed somehow. Could one of the administrators help me? Thanks. Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From dastar at wco.com Mon Dec 8 16:31:56 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712080352.WAA09422@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, John Higginbotham wrote: > Anyone know of a minimum unix or unix-like OS that will run on the following > config: > > Zenith Supersport SX > 386sx-16 > 640k > 110mb HD > VGA mono Looking ahead in my e-mail queue I see there is a flurry of responses to this question, and I can guess what everyone else' response is as well. But I have two syllables for you: Linux. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 16:45:47 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712082245.RAA03328@server1.netpath.net> At 02:31 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >Looking ahead in my e-mail queue I see there is a flurry of responses to >this question, and I can guess what everyone else' response is as well. > >But I have two syllables for you: Linux. With only 640k? I think I've settled on the xt/286 version of minix. I don't want a big investment, and I'm no hard core linux user myself. I know my way around, but I like experimenting with new things on these old things (computers, that is.) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From dastar at wco.com Mon Dec 8 16:54:03 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712082245.RAA03328@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, John Higginbotham wrote: > >Looking ahead in my e-mail queue I see there is a flurry of responses to > >this question, and I can guess what everyone else' response is as well. > > > >But I have two syllables for you: Linux. > > With only 640k? I think I've settled on the xt/286 version of minix. I don't > want a big investment, and I'm no hard core linux user myself. I know my way > around, but I like experimenting with new things on these old things > (computers, that is.) Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the RAM you had. But somebody just mentioned the ELKS version of Linux. Don't know what that is but it'd probably be owrth looking into. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 17:04:40 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712082304.SAA04645@server1.netpath.net> At 02:54 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the RAM you had. But somebody just >mentioned the ELKS version of Linux. Don't know what that is but it'd >probably be owrth looking into. I was looking at the too, but I have one install of minix already under my belt. I think I'll give it a try first. I'm pretty sure it'll run okay, since the version I'm shooting for is optimized for xt/286 machines. (It'll run under 512k, but likes 640k) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From Zeus334 at aol.com Mon Dec 8 17:13:49 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount /dev/hdxxx, or whatever). From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 17:30:10 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: <199712082330.SAA06079@server1.netpath.net> At 06:13 PM 12/8/97 EST, you wrote: >I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't >run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent >null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, >and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount >/dev/hdxxx, or whatever). I've seen our ISP's linux guru do this before... It can be done, I just don't know how. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From spc at armigeron.com Mon Dec 8 18:44:43 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Serial Networks In-Reply-To: from "Zeus334" at Dec 8, 97 06:13:49 pm Message-ID: <199712090044.TAA25928@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Zeus334 once stated: > > I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't > run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent > null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, > and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount > /dev/hdxxx, or whatever). > Why can't you run ARCNet cards? Linux has drivers for them (although that is assuming the ARCNet card is for a ISA bus). It is possible to use a serial connection by running PPP as a transport, which supports IP (and thus you can use NFS to mount drives). -spc (I suppose since ARCNet is over 10 years, and TCP/IP is over 10 years this counts 8-) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 8 19:15:11 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: tandy 102 question Message-ID: <44e58717.348c9d63@aol.com> i was playing around with my new tandy 102 and there is a door on the bottom which has some ROMs underneath. two are labled sony, and the other one has some pull tabs on it, and it's labeled SUPER ROM 1986. its not original equipment, is it? it looks like it can be removed fairly easily, so i was wondering if it had preloaded apps, like my grid laptop does. also, does anyone have a source of basic programs for this machine? the keyboard is rather good for typing, but i'd like to run some things on it. david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 8 19:28:09 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Importance of "original" parts Message-ID: <6418bb1e.348ca6a0@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-08 10:27:04 EST, you write: << > > How important is it to obtain computers in their "original" state? Is it > > worth it to save a computer that is known to have been hacked together? >> I myself prefer both configurations. i have a stock platinum //e which i plan to keep that way, but then again, I have a ][+ with something called a videx enhancer ][ which was a new keyboard encoder card which let me have type ahead and macros and lowercase. even better than a //e keyboard! also, an old IBMer gave me a majorly hacked timex sinclair (or one of the similar models) that was built into a wooden case, complete with power supply, monitor and even a full sized keyboard hacked in, mounted on a piece of scrap plexiglass! to me, that gives character, and helps to preserve the technology of the time. david From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 8 20:21:59 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712081040.FAA26691@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: >This will mainly be used as a dial-up machine to my service provider for >checking mail, etc. I know I can do it much easier in DOS (with this >machine), but I'm looking for a challenge. :) Well, Linux is more than up to this task, with all the nice UNIX character based internet apps you would expect, like elm, tin, lynx, etc. BTW the bare minimum for RAM is supposed to be 2Mb, but I've never tried that, I consider a character based system with 4Mb, and a 386SX/16 quite usable. I've not tried Minix, although I understand that the Atari, and maybe one or two of the other versions are now free, so one of these days I might. I don't think it will have many applications though. I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux. I'm in the process of checking it out at this moment. It looks interesting. Now if that 6502 support they mention as a posibility down the road would include the ability to run on a Apple II, or C-64, now that would be cool! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 8 20:26:40 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712090226.VAA16459@server1.netpath.net> At 06:21 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote: >I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux. >I'm in the process of checking it out at this moment. It looks >interesting. Now if that 6502 support they mention as a posibility down >the road would include the ability to run on a Apple II, or C-64, now that >would be cool! Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 8 20:31:06 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:52 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: <199712090231.AA17771@world.std.com> <>I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux ELKS is Embedded Linux Kernal System. It's a very small memory model of linux to fit on say an 8086/8 (xt) system. It's earlier unix cousin for z80 was UZI... Message-ID: <348CC441.8D6C67AD@cnct.com> Captain Napalm wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Zeus334 once stated: > > > > I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't > > run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent > > null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, > > and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount > > /dev/hdxxx, or whatever). > > > Why can't you run ARCNet cards? Linux has drivers for them (although that > is assuming the ARCNet card is for a ISA bus). > > It is possible to use a serial connection by running PPP as a transport, > which supports IP (and thus you can use NFS to mount drives). > > -spc (I suppose since ARCNet is over 10 years, and TCP/IP is over 10 > years this counts 8-) The first coax network I ever installed was Tandy ARCnet, Model IIs as server and workstations. Unfortunately, those never had any way to hook up to network operating systems that the PC stuff dealt with, and there were never drivers for those boards for Tandy Xenix, though a shitload of R&D money got spent in Fort Worth trying to make it so. Since most non-laptop "P******" machines still have ISA slots, there's no reason an ARCnet card wouldn't work. It's faster than serial PPP and more machines can connect conveniently. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 8 22:18:10 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX References: <199712090226.VAA16459@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <348CC682.9E3230D8@cnct.com> John Higginbotham wrote: > > At 06:21 PM 12/8/97 -0800, you wrote: > > >I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux. > >I'm in the process of checking it out at this moment. It looks > >interesting. Now if that 6502 support they mention as a posibility down > >the road would include the ability to run on a Apple II, or C-64, now that > >would be cool! > > Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :) Maybe with a Disk/Video interface. There's got to be a swap device _somewhere_. (Well, there _was_ that wedge thingie that would add up to 512k RAM that a firm in Glendale CA was advertising, but they never brought a demo to us at the ATSO [Area Training and Support Office] above the RSCC [Radio Shack Computer Center] there). -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From gram at cnct.com Mon Dec 8 22:35:25 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX References: <199712090359.AA16661@world.std.com> Message-ID: <348CCA8D.DDD54970@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > <>I'd not heard of Elks, as I no longer stay on the "Bleeding Edge" of Linux > > ELKS is Embedded Linux Kernal System. It's a very small memory model of > linux to fit on say an 8086/8 (xt) system. > > It's earlier unix cousin for z80 was UZI... > > > No way, UZI is fairly tight and minimal V7 and want 32k for itself and 32k > for apps and a disk (hard disk) to implement total swapping of the swapable > sections of the app or UZI. > > UNIX and varients are a relatively large system OS and doesn't fit well > on most 8bit cpus especially if written in C due to code inefficentcy > from a lack of a full indexed/indirect addressing modes that C expects. > (common on PDP11 and other minis). The 8086 is a bit better but the > segmentation makes it messy again. Intel/Zilog addressing was poorly done, which is why the best *ix for "8-bit" cpus ran on Motorola 6809, OS-9 from Microware. Though the MC6809 was really more "16-bit" than the 8088. But the OS-9 kernel was indeed done in assembly rather than C, since even though it had the tightest C compiler in history, that wasn't _quite_ tight enough. Close though -- the later OSK kernels as I recall were done in C, since there was more RAM available. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From bmpete at swbell.net Mon Dec 8 22:37:22 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Portable Collection In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971208082914.4b970a2c@ricochet.net> References: <1.5.4.16.19971208082914.4b970a2c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <348eca1e.5386879@mail.swbell.net> I have a Grid Compass 1100. It works, sort of, anyone want it for the price of shipping? (It's a bit on the heavy side) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 8 22:42:40 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <199712090442.AA13314@world.std.com> I know this may be a little off topic, but... (How many times have we read this?!?) I am suprised at the number of wisened elders in my presence, People that actually used the machines I dreamed about using in my teenaged years. I was glad to find out all of these old systems that I wanted so bad back then actually sport price tags today that I can afford. I have recently sold off the large majority of my collection of late 80's computers (my wife calls it the pile, collectively), but have learned that the real joy in using these systems is the memories it gives me, something about each individual system that stands out to me. I also find that using computers from another era tends to bring me back down to earth. Most people today think these machines are a bunch of hulking dinosnores that can't be useful except as boat anchors in todays PC world. I know otherwise. Up until recently I had been using a Model 100 for taking notes and doing addresses, etc. Just as good at text entry as any P****** system is today. My boss still scoffs at me for toting around my venerable GRiDCASE 3 (running windows 1.x) that has seen regular use since I got it, or running Windows 3 on the old Zenith Supersport, the topic of a quite active thread for the past day or so in this very list. Hey, I'm not rich. If I was, I'd buy the fastest notebook/desktop system around. But alas, I am not. The boss stops scoffing when I tell him how much I paid for my computers and show him what they can still run. :) Well, that's it for the monologue. I'm sitting here listening to an instrumental christmas cd, waiting for IE 4.01 to download, and contemplating what will be considered old news 10 years from now. BTW, I didn't mean anything with the "wisened elder" comment. I consider myself an oldtimer at the young age of 27, with all these little high school know-it-alls that memorize man pages and can recite every IP address and who it belongs to on their ISP. I can remember the days before GUI. I was there. Couldn't afford more than a C-64 or CoCo back then, but I remember them as some of the best days in computer history. A parting question: I'm not exactly sure if the HP 7450a 2-pen plotter falls within the 10-year limit but... Does anyone know where I can get new pens for this unit? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Tue Dec 9 00:50:48 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: FW: From Usenet: Stuff for sale? Trade? Message-ID: <348fe9f4.166758295@mail.wizards.net> If you're interested in any of this stuff, please reply directly to the ORIGINAL author, NOT me! I don't have any of this, but am only forwarding the message in the hopes that this stuff can find good homes. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.skynet.be!poster.skynet.be!not-for-mail From: "ghandy" Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Microvax 3100 VALUE ? Date: 8 Dec 1997 23:39:26 GMT Organization: Mc Andy Lines: 13 Message-ID: <01bd0432$554b0e20$5c0b0dc3@superbabe> NNTP-Posting-Host: brus2-28.brussel.skynet.be X-Trace: news1.skynet.be 881624366 29578 (None) 195.13.11.92 X-Complaints-To: usenet@news1.skynet.be X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58062 What is the current value of this stuff? I'd like to sell it, but have no clue of a normal price... 1 x DIGITAL Microvax 3100 (without harddisk) 1 x DIGITAL Dec Server 200/MC (with kables) 4 x DIGITAL keyboard and terminal screen (VT 320) 2 x LINK 125 terminal screen and keyboard 1 x NEC Pinwriter P7 2 x DIGITAL LA75 Companion Printer 2 x MOTOROLA Codex 6015 modem for leased lines (speed: 9600) These appliances are in excellent state. 20kg of books, manuals, etc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From mcneight at umich.edu Tue Dec 9 03:04:50 1997 From: mcneight at umich.edu (Neil McNeight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI Message-ID: Greetings. Seems like everybody reports in when they get a big haul. Well, I don't have the money or the room for my own personal big haul, so I'll report on what is available for sale here at the University of Michigan Property Disposal. All sales are final. You have the opportunity to test machines in the warehouse, but they don't have 220v available. This list probably isn't complete, and it's sometimes hard to find information (manuals, model numbers, telling the difference between a HP scientific instrument and a HP minicomputer, etc.). So here goes: Apollo Domain Series 10000 (@ of these at $250 each) CPT 8510 (Terminal with 8" floppy, no other information) Digital MicroVAX 3900 w/RA82 \ TU81 Plus and RA82 >- Apparently all from one pull Constant Voltage Conditioner / Disembodied RA81 VAXstation II/GPX (2 of these) PDP-11 FORTRAN manual Some VAXstation 3100 stuff GE I have no idea. It's about 3-3 1/2 feet tall, 1 1/2 feet wide. Has two 8" drives on the front. Priced at $150. HP 7914 (looked like a computer... maybe...) IBM Model 5551 (Says "Hard Disk Model" on the front. Also has a floppy disk slot.) Prime Computer Inc. Model # 2250P ($100) SGI Power Series Iris 4D/210GTX ($1500 w/monitor) Power Series Iris 4D/GTX ($1500: no monitor) IRIS 3130 Stardent ($100. No other information) Sun 3/50 (1 regular and 1 with a scooped out case top for a matching monitor) -Neil ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- "There is more to life than increasing its speed." | Neil McNeight -Mahatma Gandhi | mcneight@umich.edu ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- From pjoules at enterprise.net Tue Dec 9 03:25:10 1997 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX References: <199712082245.RAA03328@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <348D0E76.C2443621@enterprise.net> John Higginbotham wrote: > > [Snip] I know my way > around, but I like experimenting with new things on these old things > (computers, that is.) > On this subject, one thing which may be of interest to the members of this list, there is a port of a Linux subset going on at the moment which will run on anything 8088 or above with 640k and will boot from 360k floppy. If anyone is interested then look at http://www.uk.linux.org/ELKS-Home/index.html This is still under development, but it is coming together fast. Regards Pete From jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu Tue Dec 9 07:43:01 1997 From: jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Java Touring Machine In-Reply-To: <01bcfa0f$67f69d00$LocalHost@photze> from "Hotze" at Nov 26, 97 05:02:52 am Message-ID: <199712091343.IAA07588@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I would like to get a copy of the Java applet for a Turing machine. Thanks. john > > > >elisa? that program that asks you the same open ended question? i may have > a > >similar program if there really is an interest. > Yep, that one. It is a BIG interest. It's probably classic content as the > older versions go back to Turing's Law. I've found a Java applet that > simulates the Turing machine. > Thanks, > > Tim D. Hotze > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From roger at sinasohn.com Tue Dec 9 10:20:08 1997 From: roger at sinasohn.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971209081903.0c473628@ricochet.net> At 09:26 PM 12/8/97 -0500, you wrote: >Or... dare I say it... linux on a TRS-80 Model 100/102/200??? :) Rick of Club 100 mentioned once that there is a company that uses m100's with a version of Unix running on them. Unfortunately (and yes, I asked) he said they won't release it to the public. But, at least that means it's doable! P.S., the m100 is 8085-based, so 6502-linux wouldn't help much. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Dec 9 10:40:06 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI In-Reply-To: Neil McNeight's message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 04:04:50 -0500 (EST) References: Message-ID: <199712091640.IAA10199@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Neil McNeight wrote: > CPT 8510 (Terminal with 8" floppy, no other information) I think I have one of these in storage, with a daisywheel printer. Haven't tried doing anything with it yet. Mine was used as a dedicated word processor (which was CPT's main business IIRC). There was no documentation with it; the company that bought them probably had it but had a staff member train the users, and the user I got mine from had it installed in her home. > HP > 7914 (looked like a computer... maybe...) There is probably a microprocessor inside, but it was sold as a disc drive, maybe with a cartridge tape drive that uses the block-formatted HCD tapes (like 9144s). I think the disc drive has about 130MB capacity. Good for old HP 9000s and maybe 3000s; in fact it would look very nice next to a 9000 series 540. HP 79xx and 91yx (for y>1) are usually storage of some sort. (9111 is a graphics tablet.) > Sun > 3/50 (1 regular and 1 with a scooped out case top for a matching > monitor) That's called a "dimple-top". -Frank McConnell From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Dec 9 11:15:06 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI In-Reply-To: <199712091640.IAA10199@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 9 Dec 1997, Frank McConnell wrote: > > HP > > 7914 (looked like a computer... maybe...) > [...] > > HP 79xx and 91yx (for y>1) are usually storage of some sort. (9111 is > a graphics tablet.) But the 9114 was a disk drive, wasn't it? (the HP-IL drive for the 71/75/etc). And the 9100 was a calculator (HP's first desktop calculator, released in 1968, and rather nice). > -Frank McConnell -tony From Zeus334 at aol.com Tue Dec 9 11:26:06 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: Very simply, I have a two year old wintel desktop, which does indeed have ISA slots, and runs Win95. I tried to install an ARCNet card, and I couldn't correctly configure all of the stuff (IRQ, RAM, DMA, etc.), though I had the dip switch information. What I have is a half-length CMD card. Since I couldn't configure it, I gave up. But, if anyone has any hints.... In a message dated 97-12-08 23:35:01 EST, you write: << Captain Napalm wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Zeus334 once stated: > > > > I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't > > run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent > > null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, > > and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount > > /dev/hdxxx, or whatever). > > > Why can't you run ARCNet cards? Linux has drivers for them (although that > is assuming the ARCNet card is for a ISA bus). > > It is possible to use a serial connection by running PPP as a transport, > which supports IP (and thus you can use NFS to mount drives). > > -spc (I suppose since ARCNet is over 10 years, and TCP/IP is over 10 > years this counts 8-) The first coax network I ever installed was Tandy ARCnet, Model IIs as server and workstations. Unfortunately, those never had any way to hook up to network operating systems that the PC stuff dealt with, and there were never drivers for those boards for Tandy Xenix, though a shitload of R&D money got spent in Fort Worth trying to make it so. Since most non-laptop "P******" machines still have ISA slots, there's no reason an ARCnet card wouldn't work. It's faster than serial PPP and more machines can connect conveniently. -- Ward Griffiths >> From Zeus334 at aol.com Tue Dec 9 11:29:07 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Portable Collection Message-ID: <4bfa9cf.348d7fe9@aol.com> What is it? Is it a Compaq Portable-style contraption? What processor? What OS? What apps? In a message dated 97-12-09 01:13:38 EST, you write: << I have a Grid Compass 1100. It works, sort of, anyone want it for the price of shipping? (It's a bit on the heavy side) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >> From william at ans.net Tue Dec 9 11:54:34 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI In-Reply-To: <199712091640.IAA10199@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: >Stardent ($100. No other information) This machine is probably the most interesting of the lot. The Stardents were graphics "supercomputers", using parallel MIPS CPUs and vector units. They were quite the graphics stations of their day (late 1980s), much as SGIs are now. There performance is quite impressive, even compared to today's PeeCee. If I were near Ann Arbor, I would seriously consider this machine, providing, of course, that the disk(s) are still there with (hopefully) an operating system. William Donzelli william@ans.net From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 9 20:48:33 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Breach in subject Message-ID: <199712100259.SAA03108@mxu1.u.washington.edu> > A parting question: I'm not exactly sure if the HP 7450a 2-pen plotter falls > within the 10-year limit but... Does anyone know where I can get new pens > for this unit? Try Global. They have _everything_. P Manney Wizened elder. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 9 21:03:12 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Breach in subject Message-ID: <199712100303.WAA19293@server1.netpath.net> At 09:48 PM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >Try Global. They have _everything_. Global what? Please don't make me do a search on "Global"!!!! :) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From kroma at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 9 22:46:29 1997 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: <00ce01bd0526$96c30020$64f8430a@kroma-i> There's a program called TCP to Serial that might be what you're looking for. Check out the web sit at http://www.aball.de/~gotti/tcptoser.html -- Kirk From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Dec 9 23:41:04 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:15:06 +0000 (GMT) References: Message-ID: <199712100541.VAA04123@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > HP 79xx and 91yx (for y>1) are usually storage of some sort. (9111 is > > a graphics tablet.) > > But the 9114 was a disk drive, wasn't it? (the HP-IL drive for the > 71/75/etc). And the 9100 was a calculator (HP's first desktop calculator, > released in 1968, and rather nice). Yep. Which just goes to show one point I had in the back of my mind at the time: HP's model numbering scheme comes maddeningly close to making sense. -Frank McConnell From dastar at wco.com Tue Dec 9 23:49:15 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Zeus334 wrote: > I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't > run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent > null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, > and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount > /dev/hdxxx, or whatever). Yeah, you can use the INTERSVR program that was introduced in DOS 6.0 (or LapLink...even better but I don't have a whole lot of experience using it). On one system you run INTERSVR.EXE (your server) and on the other system you have to add DEVICE=C:\DOS\INTERLNK.EXE to your CONFIG.SYS file (your client). You then re-boot your client and when it comes up it will automatically sense the server on the other side of the [serial port|parallel port] and will mount all of its drives as drives on your client. So if you have an A: and C: drive, it will map the server's drive(s) as D:, E:, etc. I recommend using the parallel port as the transfer rate is 10Mbps (effectively same as thin ethernet...at least this is what I've always thought to be true). You'll need to get a laplink cable for this. Otherwise you can run it over a serial port at up to 115Kbps, and of course you'll need a null modem cable. Uh oh, this is starting to turn into a PC tips&tricks discussion. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From engine at chac.org Tue Dec 9 23:50:46 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Finds in Ann Arbor, MI In-Reply-To: <199712100541.VAA04123@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971209215046.00fd9920@pop.batnet.com> At 21:41 12/9/97 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >Yep. Which just goes to show one point I had in the back of my mind >at the time: HP's model numbering scheme comes maddeningly close to >making sense. "Maddeningly close" = "so close as to be close to close enough" cf. "Infuriatingly close" ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis! From dastar at wco.com Tue Dec 9 23:56:37 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks In-Reply-To: <348CC441.8D6C67AD@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Since most non-laptop "P******" machines still have ISA slots, there's > no reason an ARCnet card wouldn't work. It's faster than serial PPP and > more machines can connect conveniently. Sometimes you run into timing issues with old network cards which require you to fiddle with the CPU timing parameters in the BIOS setup. Or the card may have jumpers you can set to employ different wait states, but with an old arcnet card its pretty doubtful. I use old Artisoft NodeRunner cards (ethernet) which require you to set a special wait-state in the soft-config in order for them to work on Pentium machines. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Dec 10 00:06:24 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Yeah, you can use the INTERSVR program that was introduced in DOS 6.0 (or > LapLink...even better but I don't have a whole lot of experience using > it). Actually, I should say a couple things about LapLink since I have used it once. It is easier to use than INTERSVR. The best thing about it is that you don't have to add a silly line to your CONFIG.SYS file. You just run the program on each system you want to transfer files between and they automatically map to each other. As long as the programs are running on each then you can tranfer files. However, you are limited to doing your file transfers within the program itself. You can't map drives from a command line like you can with INTERSVR (at least I don't think you can). Two programs, each having their own merits. Choose the best one for your particular application. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Dec 10 06:49:25 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Epson Equity III+ Message-ID: Hi there, Does anyone know what an Epson Equity III+ is? Is it just a PC clone, or is there something special about this machine? I saw one in the window of a pawn shop last week. The case design was pretty cool, but if I had to guess, it looked like it might have been a Hercules monitor sitting on top of it. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 10 07:36:27 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Serial Networks In-Reply-To: <199712082330.SAA06079@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, John Higginbotham wrote: > At 06:13 PM 12/8/97 EST, you wrote: > >I don't have access to network cards (except maybe ARCNet, which I couldn't > >run on my P*****), and I was wondering if there is a way to have a transparent > >null modem-based network. IE, could I connect two computers with a null modem, > >and then change to the other computer's drive by typing x: (or mount > >/dev/hdxxx, or whatever). > > I've seen our ISP's linux guru do this before... It can be done, I just > don't know how. > SLIP them together, and use NFS. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Dec 10 07:39:20 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Unix on Zenith Supersport SX In-Reply-To: <199712090359.AA16661@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: [snip] > No way, UZI is fairly tight and minimal V7 and want 32k for itself and 32k > for apps and a disk (hard disk) to implement total swapping of the swapable > sections of the app or UZI. > > UNIX and varients are a relatively large system OS and doesn't fit well > on most 8bit cpus especially if written in C due to code inefficentcy > from a lack of a full indexed/indirect addressing modes that C expects. > (common on PDP11 and other minis). The 8086 is a bit better but the ^^^^^ Maybe it should be ported here instead? :) From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Dec 10 09:16:49 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Breach in subject In-Reply-To: <199712100303.WAA19293@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971210101649.009dfea0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, John Higginbotham said: >At 09:48 PM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Try Global. They have _everything_. >Global what? Please don't make me do a search on "Global"!!!! :) Global is the name of a mail-order office products company which sends out about a bazillion catalogs every other month, kinda like Inmac (which is another place you could check). I have no idea if these folks have a Web presence yet, however. Uh.... searching for Global catalog 'round the office -- 4 folks later, found one! Web: http://www.globalcomputer.com Order: 1-800-8 GLOBAL (1-800-845-6225) Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 10 13:17:55 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: subscribe Message-ID: From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 10 10:20:05 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <01bd0587$7a234ea0$0100007f@localhost> Hello. After paying a visit to the only local High School; someone made a comment about how their 286's didn't work. From an inspection of the school; it looks like 486's are used in half the labs; 2-4 286's and 1 386 per class room; and the process of Pentiums is being integrated. Some in the most recent wing do have one. But anyway; the 286s; as you might guess... are DYING. These are all PCs; and the problem is in HDDs. Now; I only have one MFM HDD handy; which I'll be installing soon; but there are 2 other malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; for the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their funding is not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, or; if you have them; two (probably of the 20-40MB vairety; the standard sofware is a DOS menulite; WP51 for DOS; Qbasic; Printshop; etc. so it's not heavy; but for DOS 5.0 (what they have) I'd guess that a 10MB would be pushing it.); and then you'ld have elementary and high school (it's mixed) students smiling. Thanks in advance; Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971210/cab0e57e/attachment.html From bryn at bwc.org Wed Dec 10 21:44:01 1997 From: bryn at bwc.org (bryn@bwc.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: WANTED TO BUY: EPSON PX-8 Message-ID: <9712101944.AA23772@dove.bwc.org> I'm looking for a replacement PX-8. Mine seems to have finally died, but since it did what we wanted perfectly, and I still have the peripherals for it, I'd rather just replace it than pay big bucks for lots of bang that we don't need. Please let me know if you have a working one that you no longer need but don't want to consign to the land fill - I could give it a good home. I'm currently in Haifa, Israel, but If any Americans have one we could arrange for the unit to be sent to one of three addresses in a) San Diego, Calif., b) San Rafeal, Calif. or c) Providence, Rhode Island all in the U.S.A. from where we get it sent to us by family members. For European sellers we may just try the airmail system and see how it goes... warm regards, Bryn Deamer 14 Shunamit St. Haifa 34562 Israel bryn@bwc.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- From manney at nwohio.com Wed Dec 10 14:16:58 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Breach in subject Message-ID: <199712102040.MAA15817@mx4.u.washington.edu> ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Breach in subject > Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 9:15 PM > > At 09:48 PM 12/9/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >Try Global. They have _everything_. > > Global what? Please don't make me do a search on "Global"!!!! :) Global computer Supply. I have the number at work (They've got an 800 number...call 1-800-555-1212 to get it). Once you're on their mailing list, tho', you get 100 catalogs a year. They have all kinds of oddball stuff (Rainbow disks, last I checked, for example.) From manney at nwohio.com Wed Dec 10 14:37:56 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <199712102048.MAA23198@mx2.u.washington.edu> Sent where? Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common. ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Donation For School Wanted > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 12:01 PM > > Hello. After paying a visit to the only local High School; someone made a comment about how their 286's didn't work. From an inspection of the school; it looks like 486's are used in half the labs; 2-4 286's and 1 386 per class room; and the process of Pentiums is being integrated. Some in the most recent wing do have one. But anyway; the 286s; as you might guess... are DYING. These are all PCs; and the problem is in HDDs. Now; I only have one MFM HDD handy; which I'll be installing soon; but there are 2 other malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; for the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their funding is not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, or; if you have them; two (probably of the 20-40MB vairety; the standard sofware is a DOS menulite; WP51 for DOS; Qbasic; Printshop; etc. so it's not heavy; but for DOS 5.0 (what they have) I'd guess that a 10MB would be pushing it.); and then you'ld have elementary and high school (it's m From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 10 15:07:53 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <199712102107.AA12664@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Sent where? > > Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as > ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common. > Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives, less shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more readily available, and about equally inexpensive. - don From matza19 at idt.net Wed Dec 10 16:28:29 1997 From: matza19 at idt.net (Greg Matza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Your views on the classics In-Reply-To: <19971210221400.AAA26417@default> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971210142829.007d5100@pop3.idt.net> Hi everyone. I'm a freelance writer working on a project about "digital bohemians." In an industry where the assumption is that fastest, newest, biggest is necessarily better, I think that we need to take a look at those sentimentalists, hobbyists, loyalists, luddites, and/or people who just KNOW that the older systems were superior. If you have a few minutes and would like to tell me how you feel about this hobby/movement/passion, please send me a PRIVATE EMAIL at matza19@idt.net. (please, do not clutter up the listserver with private correspondence.) I'll mail you out a few free-form questions to help give your comments some structure. If this message is considered SPAM by the etiquette of this list, I apologize for my ignorance. Your faqs don't mention any such rule. Thank you. Greg Matza matza19@idt.net From djomega at mindspring.com Wed Dec 10 16:32:30 1997 From: djomega at mindspring.com (djomega@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Monitor Message-ID: <348F187E.7529723B@mindspring.com> Hey i need a good 14" montior for my mom and it gotta be a lease vga that goldstar is it good.......I'll make an 40 dollar offer From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 16:53:21 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: Back to work Message-ID: Hi all. I haven't been around much for the past few months and I know I left some of you in a lurch in the middle of projects. My work situation has been largely resolved and I am about to begin a long vacation, so here's a good time to ask if you need anything from me. If I've missed anything really cool, let me know ;) ------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu (mail may come from alternate addresses) Classic Computers List Operator/Owner http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 20:23:34 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:53 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 1 Message-ID: ============================================================================= DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ. THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE. IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.3 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 1 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with the use of mailing lists and internet-specific tools. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart1.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Mailing Lists ---------------- 1.1 Mailing List Basics 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot How to set to Digest How to Subscribe How to Unsubscribe 2. FTP ------ 2.1 FTP Basics 3. World Wide Web ----------------- 3.1 WWW Basics ============================================================================= 1.1 Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listproc@u.washington.edu (Do NOT send the message to classiccmp@u.washington.edu). In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands, then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 FTP Basics FTP is a protocol by which files can be transferred over the internet. You can use FTP to connect to a remote site and retrieve files. The commands you use with FTP depend on the software you use. In general you must make sure that you are in BINARY mode before transferring a program file or compressed files. The process of downloading a file is usually termed GET and the process of uploading a file is usually termed PUT. Your FTP program will require an address to connect to. For the ClassicCmp site that address is 140.142.225.188. You then may be asked to log in (unless your program assumes an anonymous login). When asked for a name, use anonymous. When asked for a password enter your internet e-mail address. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 WWW Basics The only complicated thing with the WWW is knowing what bells and whistles your web browser supports. You don't really need to know much other than the address for ClassicCmp. The web site is all text which means just about any web browser from the oldest Lynx to the newest Netscape or Microsoft browser should support it. The ClassicCmp site is http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp. ============================================================================= From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 20:25:36 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 Message-ID: ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.3 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart2.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Added: section 1.8 Changed: section 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 3.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. About the List ----------------- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? 1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? 1.8 How long has this list been around? 2. Protocol and Etiquette ------------------------- 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisements? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!? 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? 2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts? 3. Misc List Information ------------------------ 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 3.3 Is this list archived? 4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net ---------------------------------- 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site? Collecting ---------- 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! ============================================================================= 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail ;) 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. This definition has come under fire recently but remains the guideline. Remember that it is certainly flexible. The idea is to keep conversation on track, not to restrict what you can talk about. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. As an update, I've been _really_ hard to reach for the last couple months. Hopefully, this has now changed. Please keep in mind that this list is recreation for me, and I sometimes cannot devote any time to it. This does not indicate a lack of interest in the people or activities involved. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 20 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about (I haven't checked lately, will update) messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. 1.8 How long has this list been around? The first message went out March 13, 1997. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way in the subject line. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Some people like to read other peoples' trophy lists, some do not. There have been times when most people have been interested in these and times when many wanted to see them banned. So, they remain - appreciated or tolerated and somewhat controversial. Can't make everyone happy all the time ;) 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 210 and changing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows the number of machines registered by subscribers. 3.3 Is this list archived? Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large. [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site? Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers if needed. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then, precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work. In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called "computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally just marketed to less wasteful countries. 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines, books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step. Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier. ============================================================================= From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 20:27:01 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 3 Message-ID: ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart3.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. General ------------------ 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? 2. Media -------- 2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk? 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? 2.4 What disk sizes are there? 2.5 How do I take care of old media? 3. Component Failure Issues --------------------------- 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? 3.2 How about ROM's, other chips? 3.3 How about capacitors? 3.4 Anything else? 3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest? 4. Software ----------- 4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X? 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? 5. Specific Problems/Solutions ------------------------------ 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? ============================================================================= 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done before that power switch gets flipped. Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of problems just by taking a peek inside. If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate tools. Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit just to get them warmed up. Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk, format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your day. 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone (available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm. For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc) but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly. Recommended commercial products: Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration] Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic) Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings] Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted) Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker] Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable) 3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge] CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge] Fulcron [for discoloration] Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge] Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders. Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays. Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher (some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each keycap and clean conventionally. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk? We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the formatting process). This means that various computers can use the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control- led by the operating system. Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16 sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact, it would not be possible. 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together). SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5" disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high density. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general the following substitutions may be made: Desired Format Substitute --------------------------------------------------- Single Density Double Density Double Density none reliably Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!) High Density none Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives. 2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types? Physically? Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks --------------------------------------------------------- 8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy) 5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy) 3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy) 2.5" 2" In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south". 2.5 How do I take care of old media? Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry, temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer). With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64 floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're not starting to stick up internally. An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take care of them. The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for (on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still fine for being "re-educated". 3.2 How about ROMs and other chips? Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify an existing component to meet your needs. 3.3 How about capacitors? This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much more standard electronic components. 3.4 Anything else? Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone. I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be obvious and they will be easily duplicated. Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate, etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base- ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this. 3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest? This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp- riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows). From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 10 20:24:43 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <01bd05db$f16bea40$7f60bcc1@photze> Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc. I think that they're half-height. -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: > >> Sent where? >> >> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as >> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common. >> >Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives, less >shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more >readily available, and about equally inexpensive. > > - don > From william at ans.net Wed Dec 10 20:55:52 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called >"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and >recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and >platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally >just marketed to less wasteful countries. I have always had a problem with this part of the FAQ. These people are our friends, as they often get the real gems. They do not always get the big stuff - one time I saw a bunch of Tempest rated PCs, and NeXT equipment, all on the same pile. The precious metal content of a big mini or mainframe can be quite a lot (check out and you will see what I mean), so the way they recycle is all based on ecomomics. Obviously, the gold is stripped first - it is the cream. The copper is probably next on the list, obtained by grinding the circuit boards and wires into powder. The rest is not worth it, literally. It is far too labor intensive to completely strip a computer down to basic metals - the money made would all go into paying the grunts! The labor in China is very cheap (actually, the strippers are young men that work like dogs for 2-3 years to make thier dowry money), thus the frames, disks, and power supplies get shipped overseas. William Donzelli william@ans.net From roger at sinasohn.com Wed Dec 10 21:00:15 1997 From: roger at sinasohn.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Serial Networks Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971210185909.4eef31a2@ricochet.net> At 10:06 PM 12/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: >Actually, I should say a couple things about LapLink since I have used it >once. It is easier to use than INTERSVR. The best thing about it is that I've used LapLink a fair bit (Did you know Traveling Software got their start doing m100 programs?) and I have to say I love it. I even use it to move things around on the same computer, or just to find the total size of a set of subdirectories. It is not, however, a network solution. (At least not the older version that I have.) If you want to move files around between machines, buy laplink. If you want to share disks among various machines (i.e., a network), get something else. It all depends on what you want to do. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From bcw at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 21:16:41 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Allright, I'll take a crack at revision for next time. I agree that recyclers can be great to deal with - I never thought this reflected badly on them. Recycling is what they do and they do it in the most efficient way they can. It's sometimes tragic to see all that history shoved in a compactor, but that's why we collect these things. ------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu (mail may come from alternate addresses) Classic Computers List Operator/Owner http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > >In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called > >"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and > >recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and > >platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally > >just marketed to less wasteful countries. > > I have always had a problem with this part of the FAQ. These people are > our friends, as they often get the real gems. They do not always get the > big stuff - one time I saw a bunch of Tempest rated PCs, and NeXT > equipment, all on the same pile. > > The precious metal content of a big mini or mainframe can be quite a lot > (check out and you will see what I mean), so the way > they recycle is all based on ecomomics. Obviously, the gold is stripped > first - it is the cream. The copper is probably next on the list, obtained > by grinding the circuit boards and wires into powder. The rest is not > worth it, literally. It is far too labor intensive to completely strip a > computer down to basic metals - the money made would all go into paying > the grunts! The labor in China is very cheap (actually, the strippers are > young men that work like dogs for 2-3 years to make thier dowry money), > thus the frames, disks, and power supplies get shipped overseas. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > > From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Dec 11 00:19:04 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Any 386s for sale? Message-ID: Greetings: I hope this isn't too far off the goal of this list... I am hoping that some of my friends from this great list might be able to help me out. I am desperately looking to buy 1 or 2 IBM compatible 386 machines. The reason is, I am looking to get a fairly low cost computer system for my brothers who are currently freshman and sophomore in college. Yes, I know, I tried the TRS-80, Commodore, and Apple, etc., route with them already, but my parents are looking to get them some fairly recent computers for a Christmas gift. I guess what they are looking for is 386/486 machines, with at least 4-8meg ram, Windows 3.1 (yuk!), 200 meg+ hard drive, and possible some old dot matrix printers. I of course have printers so that isn't a priority. But, the parents are willing to pay for them, so... if any of you have 1 or 2 old 386s setups around, PLEASE get in touch with me ASAP, with your offering price + shipping, and I know we could work out a deal. Software also isn't needed, as I have a $%!^ load, but I would like to get something that is fairly already setup, complete, and ready to go. Payment could be to in with a couple of days and would like to receive the units ASAP. Of course, this is all sight-unseen, so I'll trust your judgements and descriptions. Thank you very much for your consideration on these wants. I hope you could wade through my b.s. and figure out what I'm looking for. :-) Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 10 22:52:37 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: <01bd0587$7a234ea0$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: >malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; >for >the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their >funding is >not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, >or; if you have I can guarentee that, the whole base in Bahrain isn't that great. I just happened to realize something, are these 286's "Zenith 248's"? If so they can be a real pain to add anything to. The DOD had ton's of these, back in '87 the government was getting them for about $1500 apiece. Horrible design, but I've got "fond" memories of them :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Dec 10 20:32:38 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Old Zenith...was: Re: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: References: <01bd0587$7a234ea0$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: <199712110727.CAA18227@mail.cgocable.net> > >malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; > >for >the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their > >funding is >not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, > >or; if you have > > I can guarentee that, the whole base in Bahrain isn't that great. I just > happened to realize something, are these 286's "Zenith 248's"? If so they > can be a real pain to add anything to. The DOD had ton's of these, back in > '87 the government was getting them for about $1500 apiece. Horrible > design, but I've got "fond" memories of them :^) > > Zane Me too, I worked with those Z-1xx and Z-2xx, Z-3xx and LP and LP cached 386sx, 386dx, 486 series so I can tell you one thing: they were made to last if you know where to bite the problems off. :) I have not seen single square cased power supply fail and the drive cage is a plum to work with in older cases: loosen 4 nuts, take any wood screws out holding the drive cage to front end, slide it rearward and lift up! Others only 1 screw hold a cage and LP series uses rails. Oh, they have load of green and red LED's for status. The worst home PC's from Zenith: Z-148 two piece motherboard with special expensive 2 slot daughterboard, poor EMI/magnetic field shielding plus power supply so weak that it barely powers fully configured type. And dumb 2 plastic screws! We have a Eazy PC, yuk, unsuccessfully finding a serial mouse to work with that "mouse port" back in '90. Which mouse that will work with that port so that other port on that "kludge box" can be freed up for commuication purposes in future? What is options for "kludge boxes" so far I've seen was extra 128k memory either with modem or serial port but what else to this list? Jason D. > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | > > > > From rector at christcom.net Thu Dec 11 09:02:20 1997 From: rector at christcom.net (Dan Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Any 386s for sale? References: Message-ID: <3490007C.3AEA@christcom.net> If your brothers are looking to hook up to the college's computer network (for email,www, etc.), you might want to steer away from microchannel based machines (PS/2's and some others) because many colleges are now installing networking cards right in the students systems. Most of them won't have anything based on microchannel. Cord Coslor wrote: > > Greetings: > > I hope this isn't too far off the goal of this list... I am hoping that > some of my friends from this great list might be able to help me out. I am > desperately looking to buy 1 or 2 IBM compatible 386 machines. The reason > is, I am looking to get a fairly low cost computer system for my brothers > who are currently freshman and sophomore in college. Yes, I know, I tried > the TRS-80, Commodore, and Apple, etc., route with them already, but my > parents are looking to get them some fairly recent computers for a > Christmas gift. I guess what they are looking for is 386/486 machines, > with at least 4-8meg ram, Windows 3.1 (yuk!), 200 meg+ hard drive, and > possible some old dot matrix printers. I of course have printers so that > isn't a priority. But, the parents are willing to pay for them, so... if > any of you have 1 or 2 old 386s setups around, PLEASE get in touch with me > ASAP, with your offering price + shipping, and I know we could work out a > deal. Software also isn't needed, as I have a $%!^ load, but I would like > to get something that is fairly already setup, complete, and ready to go. > Payment could be to in with a couple of days and would like to receive the > units ASAP. Of course, this is all sight-unseen, so I'll trust your > judgements and descriptions. > > Thank you very much for your consideration on these wants. I hope you > could wade through my b.s. and figure out what I'm looking for. :-) > > Thanks, > > CORD > > //*=====================================================================++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector || > || Autograph collector || > ++=====================================================================*// -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Dec 11 08:21:13 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Any 386s for sale? In-Reply-To: <3490007C.3AEA@christcom.net> from "Dan Rector" at Dec 11, 97 07:02:20 am Message-ID: <9712111421.AA16406@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971211/a88c5297/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 10 23:41:31 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Message-ID: <01bd05f7$6f4e37e0$9f62bcc1@photze> Also; while you've been gone; sometimes discussion wanders "off track"; so I think that because not everyone knows the best newsgroups; etc. the FAQ could possibly include a list of good ones; to take current problems/questions to. That should keep the discussion "on track"; making it more enjoyable for everyone. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Whitson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 6:11 AM Subject: Re: FAQ > >Allright, I'll take a crack at revision for next time. >I agree that recyclers can be great to deal with - I never >thought this reflected badly on them. > >Recycling is what they do and they do it in the most >efficient way they can. It's sometimes tragic to see all >that history shoved in a compactor, but that's why we >collect these things. > >------------------------------------------------- >Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu > (mail may come from alternate addresses) > Classic Computers List Operator/Owner >http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > > >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > >> >In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called >> >"computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and >> >recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and >> >platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally >> >just marketed to less wasteful countries. >> >> I have always had a problem with this part of the FAQ. These people are >> our friends, as they often get the real gems. They do not always get the >> big stuff - one time I saw a bunch of Tempest rated PCs, and NeXT >> equipment, all on the same pile. >> >> The precious metal content of a big mini or mainframe can be quite a lot >> (check out and you will see what I mean), so the way >> they recycle is all based on ecomomics. Obviously, the gold is stripped >> first - it is the cream. The copper is probably next on the list, obtained >> by grinding the circuit boards and wires into powder. The rest is not >> worth it, literally. It is far too labor intensive to completely strip a >> computer down to basic metals - the money made would all go into paying >> the grunts! The labor in China is very cheap (actually, the strippers are >> young men that work like dogs for 2-3 years to make thier dowry money), >> thus the frames, disks, and power supplies get shipped overseas. >> >> William Donzelli >> william@ans.net >> >> > From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Dec 11 09:32:45 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <01bd064a$077fbb40$1960bcc1@photze> Well; on the case; it just says "Zenith"; I believe. It's a square design; with two horizontally-located 5 1/2" bays; occupied by some kind of black disk drive. One of the computers IS a Zenith 286; w/ 20MB HDD; 2 FDDs; etc. and a CGA (EGA?) monitor. The others are Wangs.... not really too peachy either; but they seem to run like 286's. Of course; at the Embassy; we've all got our Pentiums; our Windows 95 w/ a Windows NT server..... But the HDD is just DEAD; from what I can tell. I'd just want to replace that; hardware-transparently if possible; but if not.... I've got all my life. Thanks for the advice, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted >>malfuctioning PCs that I know of. Remember; this is for a high school; >>for >the Department of Defence dependants; and a few others, but their >>funding is >not... ideal. So if you could please just send a MFM HDD, >>or; if you have > >I can guarentee that, the whole base in Bahrain isn't that great. I just >happened to realize something, are these 286's "Zenith 248's"? If so they >can be a real pain to add anything to. The DOD had ton's of these, back in >'87 the government was getting them for about $1500 apiece. Horrible >design, but I've got "fond" memories of them :^) > > Zane > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | > > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 11 08:37:27 1997 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971211083727.00aa4100@pc> Perhaps needless to say, old MFM and even < 100 meg IDE drives are throw-away items at today's computer shops. There's a mom-and-pop computer store near here that gave me a box of old drives. They regularly toss old 86/286/386 and even 486/33 machines. I'm in a town of 6,000, I can't imagine what's being tossed in the big city. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From pjoules at enterprise.net Thu Dec 11 10:30:09 1997 From: pjoules at enterprise.net (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) References: Message-ID: <34901511.1988EB8D@enterprise.net> Bill Whitson wrote: [Snip] > 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? > > Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > I get: 403 Access Forbidden Is this from the web server or the proxy server at my end? Regards Pete From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Dec 11 10:39:57 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <34901511.1988EB8D@enterprise.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971211113957.009c8d60@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Peter Joules said: >Bill Whitson wrote: >[Snip] >> 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? >> >> Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp >> >I get: 403 Access Forbidden > >Is this from the web server or the proxy server at my end? Try this: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/index.html It seems Bill's web server software doesn't automagically get index.html.... Just went there an hour ago, so it should still be up. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Dec 11 11:03:36 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <34901511.1988EB8D@enterprise.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971211120336.007cd230@netpath.net> At 04:30 PM 12/11/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp >> >I get: 403 Access Forbidden > >Is this from the web server or the proxy server at my end? I can type in: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/index.html and get there fine, so it must be a directory permission, right? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From bmpete at swbell.net Thu Dec 11 13:05:53 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971211120336.007cd230@netpath.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971211120336.007cd230@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3491392d.2565876@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:03:36 -0500, you said: >At 04:30 PM 12/11/97 +0000, you wrote: > >>> Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp >>> >>I get: 403 Access Forbidden The exact message is: HTTP/1.0 403 Access Forbidden >I can type in: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/index.html >and get there fine, so it must be a directory permission, right? Ditto, I get there using the modified URL. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Thu Dec 11 16:24:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Message-ID: <01BD065A.13D150B0@hsmx21nt.hsd.utc.com> Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain the rights! ---------- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation has the best > >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and it was > > For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the remnants > of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in the > future...? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones. The hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- * Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- * see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Dec 11 17:36:30 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Any 386s for sale? In-Reply-To: <9712111421.AA16406@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: Well, look at it this way Tim...he's offering to take some PC 'junk' off a collectors' hands (and we all have too much of it I'm sure) so we can fill our space with useful computers like PDPs and S100 boxes. =-) He's offering to do us a service! ;) Wirehead On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > If your brothers are looking to hook up to the college's computer > > network (for email,www, etc.), you might want to steer away from > > microchannel based machines (PS/2's and some others) because many > > colleges are now installing networking cards right in the students > > systems. Most of them won't have anything based on microchannel. > > > I hope this isn't too far off the goal of this list... I am hoping that > > > some of my friends from this great list might be able to help me out. I am > > > desperately looking to buy 1 or 2 IBM compatible 386 machines. The reason > > > is, I am looking to get a fairly low cost computer system for my brothers > > > who are currently freshman and sophomore in college. > > Is it just me, or do these discussions seem better suited to one of > the mainstream PC-clone newsgroups on Usenet? > > I realize that 386's and 286's are, in some cases, more than ten years > old. They just don't seem very classic to me. Of course, I have > a room here at home with 7 PDP-11's, 9 9-track drives, a 7-track drive, > and 12 14" disk drives, so I may be entirely off base here. (And, > to bring the discussion back around, all these machines have Ethernet > cards in them and would work on a college's network just fine...) > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > From bcw at u.washington.edu Thu Dec 11 18:47:31 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <34901511.1988EB8D@enterprise.net> Message-ID: So, everybody knows where the web site is now ;). The system was changed to NT recently and I'm still figuring out IIS. I'll either fix the machine or the FAQ ;). ------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu (mail may come from alternate addresses) Classic Computers List Operator/Owner http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Dec 11 18:49:09 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: References: <34901511.1988EB8D@enterprise.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971211194909.00989e50@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Bill Whitson said: >So, everybody knows where the web site is >now ;). The system was changed to NT recently >and I'm still figuring out IIS. I'll either >fix the machine or the FAQ ;). This is NT we're talking about -- the machine is a lost cause unless ya revert to *nix / Solaris. Of course, I wonder if I could write a webserver for OS-9 Level II.... ;-) Does anyone have the specifications for programming a TCP/IP stack? (yea I've heard of KA9Q... but that's all in C, so it's too big for a CoCo). I'm talking from _scratch_... Have fun, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From spc at armigeron.com Thu Dec 11 18:30:53 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971211194909.00989e50@mail.northernway.net> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 11, 97 07:49:09 pm Message-ID: <199712120030.TAA03946@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Roger Merchberger once stated: > > Does anyone have the specifications for programming a TCP/IP stack? (yea > I've heard of KA9Q... but that's all in C, so it's too big for a CoCo). I'm > talking from _scratch_... > If you have the money, "TCP/IP Illustrated" Volumes I and II by Stevens is a good start (Volume III isn't really worth it). Volume I is the actual specification and Volume II goes over the BSD implementation. If, on the other hand, you don't have the money but you do have the time to read technical documentation, the TCP/IP spec is spelled out in RFC791, RFC950, RFC919, RFC922, RFC792, RFC1112, RFC768 and RFC793. IP and UDP aren't that complicated, but TCP can get involved. You might also want to check out the PPP spec in RFC1661 (and others, bleh). -spc (Have fun ... ) From manney at nwohio.com Thu Dec 11 18:42:12 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <199712120105.RAA15417@mx4.u.washington.edu> Haven't they made 3 1/2 to 5 1/4 rails for lo, these many years? I have a box full of WD 103 controller cards somewhere...just not sure where. I _do_ know where my ISA IDE cards are. ...but where are these supposed to be sent? manney ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:51 PM > > Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only > have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc. I > think that they're half-height. > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM > Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted > > > >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: > > > >> Sent where? > >> > >> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such as > >> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common. > >> > >Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives, less > >shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more > >readily available, and about equally inexpensive. > > > > - don > > > From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Dec 11 21:24:19 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <19971211192419.20b04c7f.in@mail.pressstart.com> I'm in contact with someone who has some good classic machines and alot of extras that he tring to find a good home for. He is located in Billings, Montana. ================= "My basement is overflowing with stuff I have been unable to send to the landfill. Lots of Boards, 8" disks, Terminals, C P/M programs. What I'm trying to do is find a home for are some Godbout CompuPro CPUs running C P/M. I tossed several band printers into the dumpster along with the LearSiegler Terminal, but couldn't bear to do that with these reliable, inestructible old Classics.. I still have terminals for the S-100 's a Wyse with separate keyboard and a Heath/Zenith Z-19. The Godbout machines work marvelously. I am interested in contacting anyone who could use these reliable old machines. reply to joanahone@aol.com " ================= ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Dec 11 21:46:16 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <01bd06b0$801df6a0$0100007f@localhost> Okay... I'll take the IDE cards; but then I'd need IDE HDDs. I used to have 2; but then I gave one to a friend (and their 286!) and the other ended up going to repair another friends computer. So I'd need the drives too.... As close to 15MB as they come.... You can just ship 'em to me. I can pay for shipping; if you want. DO NOT SHIP THEM TO THE SCHOOL. If it would make you feel more comfortable, I can get the teachers address, but not yet. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: PG Manney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 4:08 AM Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted >Haven't they made 3 1/2 to 5 1/4 rails for lo, these many years? > >I have a box full of WD 103 controller cards somewhere...just not sure >where. I _do_ know where my ISA IDE cards are. > >...but where are these supposed to be sent? > >manney > >---------- >> From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> To: Manney >> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted >> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:51 PM >> >> Yes; but then I'd have to ship the controller cards as well. These only >> have the 5 1/2" (or whatever) drivebays; the ones that fit the XTs; etc. >I >> think that they're half-height. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Don Maslin >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 1:25 AM >> Subject: Re: Donation For School Wanted >> >> >> >On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: >> > >> >> Sent where? >> >> >> >> Since those are 286's, they could be outfitted with cheapo IDE's such >as >> >> ST-157's and 125's as well...IDE paddle cards are common. >> >> >> >Actually, that is probably the smarter thing to do. Smaller drives, >less >> >shipping weight and less postage. Also newer than MFM/RLL and more >> >readily available, and about equally inexpensive. >> > >> > - don >> > >> From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Dec 11 21:17:03 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Message-ID: <01bd06ac$6b488be0$0100007f@localhost> Can you give me more info? -----Original Message----- From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 2:28 AM Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) >Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain >the rights! > > ---------- >From: Don Maslin >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) >Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM > > >On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > >> At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation has >the best >> >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and it >was >> >> For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the >remnants >> of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in the >> future...? >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- >> >> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >> sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." >> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >> San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > >For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon >of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones. >The >hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they >bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it? > > - don > > donm@cts.com >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- >* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*-- >* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 12 00:19:17 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: <01bd064a$077fbb40$1960bcc1@photze> Message-ID: >Well; on the case; it just says "Zenith"; I believe. It's a square design; >with two horizontally-located 5 1/2" bays; occupied by some kind of black >disk drive. One of the computers IS a Zenith 286; w/ 20MB HDD; 2 FDDs; etc. >and a CGA (EGA?) monitor. Yeh, that's a Zenith 248. The monitor should be a EGA, either mono or colour assuming it's one of the Zenith ones. The colour ones were kinda cool, they're the type that let you switch between mono green, mono amber, and colour (I can't even remember how many colours EGA is 8 or 16). The CPU is on a daughterboard, and in the early 90's there was an upgrade to 386, but good luck finding them. If I remember correctly the RAM is on another board, which plugs into a slot and used ram chips to upgrade. DOS 3.2 or 3.3 and Windows 1 came with them, needless to say the Windows didn't really get used, and a mouse didn't come with them. The version of MS-DOS was customized by Zenith. WP 5.0/1 was almost a given on these as it was the DOD standard, but Enable was also common. The standard printer was a hidious Alps widecarrage thing, very prone to paper jams in my experience (I really despised that printer). One interesting card that was available enabled the Zenith 248 to act as a terminal to a Harris Minicomputer. Needless to say the Harris was the cooler of the two systems. > But the HDD is just DEAD; from what I can tell. I'd just want to >replace that; hardware-transparently if possible; but if not.... I've got >all my life. Well, it is about ten years old, the first one I saw was in '87. Considering the fact this machine has probably been on a LOT, and used a LOT, that's pretty good I think. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Dec 12 00:33:21 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3499d87f.43134964@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:19:17 -0800, you said: >Yeh, that's a Zenith 248. The monitor should be a EGA, either mono or >colour assuming it's one of the Zenith ones. The colour ones were kinda >cool, they're the type that let you switch between mono green, mono amber, >and colour (I can't even remember how many colours EGA is 8 or 16). The >CPU is on a daughterboard, Maybe there've been different Z248's: I have one that's got a traditional motherboard (Utah-shaped) with memory (30-pin SIMMS) on the motherboard. (It's >10 years old!) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Dec 12 07:26:39 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: FAQ Part 2 (Web site problem) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971211194909.00989e50@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Does anyone have the specifications for programming a TCP/IP stack? (yea > I've heard of KA9Q... but that's all in C, so it's too big for a CoCo). I'm > talking from _scratch_... You could read the source to the Fuzzball O/S. It's all in PDP-11 assembler. I get to read it all, I'm ascii-uploading it to the PDP right now. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Dec 12 04:49:15 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: <3499d87f.43134964@mail.swbell.net> References: Message-ID: <199712121543.KAA19594@mail.cgocable.net> > On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:19:17 -0800, you said: > > >Yeh, that's a Zenith 248. The monitor should be a EGA, either mono or > >colour assuming it's one of the Zenith ones. The colour ones were kinda > >cool, they're the type that let you switch between mono green, mono amber, > >and colour (I can't even remember how many colours EGA is 8 or 16). The > >CPU is on a daughterboard, That's not in tall cases, this is called LP 286 series I think, and you can upgrade it to 386sx status and only use 3.5" drives unless someone chose a taller case with same footprint to get both and one 5.25" bay. In fact, at my U of Q, tech support did that over 10's of them and I collected all those 286 daughterboards because those 286 chips is Harris usually and this is very cool running CPU at 12mhz I have seen (CMOS 80C286). Those little boxes has video card is on board and VGA only. The early LP series used ET3000 or ET4000 chipset on a ISA card plugged into slot tree. The old cases that used 8088 or 286 cards interchangeably along with slots is much bigger and taller. The old 286 on a card used C&T EGA card in last slot capble of emulating the VGA frequencies to drive regular VGA monitors but to s/w is EGA (!!) or plain EGA monitor. Cool card. :) It's somewhat oddball card enough to require a video rom upgrade to make it work in other non-zenith machines. Comment: I have not seen Zenith CGA color or mono, but I have seen lots of both types old and new in either composite or TTL and VGA monitor either in old or newer type cases as well. EGA color by zenith? Dunno. But I loved their FTM but problem was reliability and cost in '90 and earlier. Recently, few days ago, I overheard one zenith FTM monitor fell apart from crumbling boards! Which one is most reliable and least troublesome FTM monitors from Zenith? Troll (Jason D.) > Maybe there've been different Z248's: I have one that's got a > traditional motherboard (Utah-shaped) with memory (30-pin SIMMS) > on the motherboard. (It's >10 years old!) > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > > From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Fri Dec 12 09:33:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Message-ID: <9712121529.AA01205@mscsvr.hsd.utc.com> They gave JTS a bridge loan of 25 Million and merged with JTS. If the merger did not work JTS owes the loan. If it does work, then the loan is forgiven. Atari licensed games to Sega and Nintendo. They also write games for other platforms including MS DOS/Windows. I believe their name is now ATARI INTERACTIVE GAMES, but I'll check on it. ---------- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:17PM Can you give me more info? -----Original Message----- From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 2:28 AM Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) >Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain >the rights! > > ---------- >From: Don Maslin >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) >Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 3:06PM > > >On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > >> At 01:19 PM 11/14/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >Well, it won't help you now, but a company called JTS Corporation has >the best >> >HDDs I've seen in a LONG time. I was using a WD Caviar 2.0 GB, and it >was >> >> For a little classic content, JTS is the company that acquired the >remnants >> of Atari Corp. Haven't done anything with it, that I know of, but in the >> future...? >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- >> >> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >> sinasohn@ricochet.net that none but madmen know." >> Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >> San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > >For a little more 'classic content', the "JT" in JTS is for Jugi Tandon >of oldtime floppy disk drive fame and later hard disk and PC clones. >The >hard disk rights were sold to Western Digital at the time that they >bailed out of the card making business. Small world, ain't it? > > - don > > donm@cts.com >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* - >* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 >*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*- - >* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Dec 12 11:29:11 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971212092806.09278b1a@ricochet.net> At 05:24 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain >the rights! I think that's Atari Games which Warner held on to (? at least it didn't fall into the hands of Tramiel) and has been putting out arcade games as well, I think. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Fri Dec 12 12:03:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Message-ID: <9712121759.AA00478@mscsvr.hsd.utc.com> Not So. Atari was completely sold to Tramiel. You might be confusing them with Activision which was founded by former Atari programmers. ---------- From: Uncle Roger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: JTS (was: Classic Computer Rescue Squad) Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 12:29PM At 05:24 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Atari is now making games for all the game platforms. They still retain >the rights! I think that's Atari Games which Warner held on to (? at least it didn't fall into the hands of Tramiel) and has been putting out arcade games as well, I think. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Dec 12 16:33:34 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:54 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC - 675 Message-ID: <19971212143334.24cc9f0f.in@mail.pressstart.com> Has anyone heard of a Sanyo MBC - 675. Do you know anything about it? ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Dec 12 18:18:29 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: CP/M stuff in CA Message-ID: <004401bd075d$59a3c560$68a0a50a@office1> Cross-post from comp.os.cpm. Reply to the author. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ "My basement is overflowing with stuff I have been unable to send to the landfill. Lots of Boards, 8" disks, Terminals, C P/M programs. What I'm trying to do is find a home for are some Godbout CompuPro CPUs running C P/M. I tossed several band printers into the dumpster along with the LearSiegler Terminal, but couldn't bear to do that with these reliable, inestructible old Classics.. I still have terminals for the S-100 's a Wyse with separate keyboard and a Heath/Zenith Z-19. The Godbout machines work marvelously. I am interested in contacting anyone who could use these reliable old machines. reply to joanahone@aol.com " ======================= ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 12 19:46:53 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: <3499d87f.43134964@mail.swbell.net> References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:19:17 -0800, you said: > >>Yeh, that's a Zenith 248. The monitor should be a EGA, either mono or >>colour assuming it's one of the Zenith ones. The colour ones were kinda >>cool, they're the type that let you switch between mono green, mono amber, >>and colour (I can't even remember how many colours EGA is 8 or 16). The >>CPU is on a daughterboard, > >Maybe there've been different Z248's: I have one that's got a >traditional motherboard (Utah-shaped) with memory (30-pin SIMMS) >on the motherboard. (It's >10 years old!) Dunno, I attended a Navy class on these back in '91 or '92, and the bit that really shocked me was the CPU on a daughterboard. I'm also almost positive it didn't use SIMMs. It could be this design was the DOD version of the Z-248, or was yours upgraded with a different MB to get a more expandable system. I just happened to think of another oddity about this computer, it's the only IBM clone I can remember using that had a Boot ROM that you could drop into. I think CNTRL-ALT-INS drops you into it, but I'm not sure. I seem to remember finding it by accident originally. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From manney at nwohio.com Fri Dec 12 19:26:38 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <199712130218.SAA01840@mx5.u.washington.edu> > Okay... I'll take the IDE cards; but then I'd need IDE HDDs. I used to have > 2; but then I gave one to a friend (and their 286!) and the other ended up > going to repair another friends computer. So I'd need the drives too.... As > close to 15MB as they come.... I don't know if there was such a thing as a 15 MB IDE. There was a 20 MB (ST 125? It had the same characteristics as the ST-225). I think I have a coupla 40 MB's. You'll have to have IDE cards with floppy controller, and serial/parallel, 'cause that's what I have. > You can just ship 'em to me. I can pay for shipping; if you want. Please. I'm not independently wealthy, as some of the collectors on this list seem to be (OH NO! I've just started another flame war! :) > DO NOT SHIP THEM TO THE SCHOOL. manney@nwohio.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Dec 12 16:43:49 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: References: <3499d87f.43134964@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <199712130338.WAA02612@mail.cgocable.net> Zane, re: Ctrl+Alt+Ins combo and a question. This is standard feature in Zenith's all the back to early 8088 up to early 486's machines before Zenith got eaten twice once by Bull Groupe then once by Nec/PB (yuk!). That CPU daughterboard ones always has SIMM slots and has IDE/FD/Video on board as standard feature except for early LP 286 has one video card in one of the 3 slot. Those cases are all breige, 3 slots, has real lock in rear to lock the case along with external U loop to keep the pc from wandering from the desktop (too secure!) and height is more like 4" high or plus one HH if it has a 5.25" bay and has 5 slots. The FD and IDE is on same slot card. The I/O is on the motherboard usually. The PSU switch is little neater recessed rocker in a countersunk bezel on right side towards back. The older pcs starting with 8088 and early 286's used 3 5.25" HH bays in one cage and a large power cube behind it, all are passive slot, used 3 or 4 taller special size brackets for the needed processor, memory and i/o w/ video combo. Top shell is light grey, base is painted black. I have not seen 386dx's in that type of case because I recall that passive slot board has space for that and it has also mounting hardware to support the 32 bit portion. The power switch is plain-jane narrow black rocker with a white dot on back in PSU area. The 386dx and EISA ones used wider version of classic 8088 type case (similar to AT case) but the two 52.5" cages are removeable by one screw each. Dunno on 486 in that case type. Which one we're are now talking about: newer one or the older model? Troll (Jason D.) > Dunno, I attended a Navy class on these back in '91 or '92, and the bit > that really shocked me was the CPU on a daughterboard. I'm also almost > positive it didn't use SIMMs. It could be this design was the DOD version > of the Z-248, or was yours upgraded with a different MB to get a more > expandable system. > > I just happened to think of another oddity about this computer, it's the > only IBM clone I can remember using that had a Boot ROM that you could drop > into. I think CNTRL-ALT-INS drops you into it, but I'm not sure. I seem > to remember finding it by accident originally. > > > Zane From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Dec 13 00:08:19 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Amstrad CPC6128 in Australia Message-ID: No idea how many Australians are on this list, but I have just been offered 3 CPC6128's with colour monitors. I am thinking I could do with one (both of the others I own have some faults) and would be willing to pick up the others if anyone is after one. They'll cost me around $30 each, though - a good price (they are normally around $50 because of the monitors), but not wonderful. Adam. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 13 02:04:36 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted In-Reply-To: <199712130338.WAA02612@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3499d87f.43134964@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: >That CPU daughterboard ones always has SIMM slots and has >IDE/FD/Video on board as standard feature except for early LP 286 has >one video card in one of the 3 slot. It's been well over a year since I saw a Z-248, and even longer since I saw inside one, but I seem to recall everything being on cards. With the cards all plugging into a backplane. I remember thinking this was a inefficent way to do it because it meant the CPU had to go through the mess to get to the memory. I'm not sure why but for some reason I think the Z-248 was made specifically for the DOD, although DOD employee's could purchase them for themselves. Some of them were Tempest machines, externally they looked the same, and I'm pretty sure the parts were the same. I've no idea what it takes to make a tempest machine, but I think it's basically the case. All I know is they weigh a ton! Now what I'd like to know is why on earth was it called a Zenith 248? I've always thought that made no sense! >Those cases are all breige, 3 They're at least beige in front, but I think they've got another colour, just don't remember. >motherboard usually. The PSU switch is little neater recessed rocker >in a countersunk bezel on right side towards back. Now there is a feature I definitly don't remeber anything about. Probably in part because they were always left on. I've seen both on computers and won't even hazard a guess. >The older pcs starting with 8088 and early 286's used 3 5.25" HH bays >in one cage and a large power cube behind it, all are passive slot, >used 3 or 4 taller special size brackets for the needed processor, >memory and i/o w/ video combo. Top shell is light grey, base is >painted black. This pretty much sounds like what I'm thinking of, though I'm fuzzy on the internal layout. I know it had at least 3 bays, I thought it had 4. There are two bays for floppies on the top right side. Of course they were 5.25" floppies, but I've seen 3.5" added. >Which one we're are now talking about: newer one or the older model? I'd say older, as I've said I saw the first one in I believe late 1987. The Z-248 was the first and I think only 286 I've ever used. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Dec 12 21:53:15 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Donation For School Wanted Message-ID: <01bd077a$a45b66e0$0100007f@localhost> >Dunno, I attended a Navy class on these back in '91 or '92, and the bit >that really shocked me was the CPU on a daughterboard. I'm also almost >positive it didn't use SIMMs. It could be this design was the DOD version >of the Z-248, or was yours upgraded with a different MB to get a more >expandable system. Well; we'll find out soon enough! (When I get the supplies) >I just happened to think of another oddity about this computer, it's the >only IBM clone I can remember using that had a Boot ROM that you could drop >into. I think CNTRL-ALT-INS drops you into it, but I'm not sure. I seem >to remember finding it by accident originally. I'll try that the next time I see one. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------| Tim D. Hotze | "I'm Sure that God intended for me to be | Techie | rich, it just hasn't happened yet." | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------| From thompson at squirrel.tgsoft.com Sat Dec 13 07:54:39 1997 From: thompson at squirrel.tgsoft.com (mark thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: old mac SW Message-ID: <19971213135439.15904.qmail@squirrel.tgsoft.com> Does anybody need some old Mac Software (great for all of those "classic" macs that don't have the memory for system >= 6). Lots of great stuff that I just can't bring myself to toss out, but which I will *never* use again. If you want it badly enough to pay for shipping, plus a token $1 for my trouble, email me. -mark p.s. Includes lightspeed C, kriya neon, microsoft multiplan and borland reflex From Zeus334 at aol.com Sat Dec 13 09:59:11 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: CP/M Message-ID: <971213105910_-688578787@mrin51.mx> Is there any way that CP/M is better than MS-DOS? i.e. does it provide anything that DOS doesn't? From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Sat Dec 13 10:30:51 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: CP/M Message-ID: <01IR4EDBQR9E9SJA0Q@cc.usu.edu> > Is there any way that CP/M is better than MS-DOS? i.e. does it provide > anything that DOS doesn't? One thing I've always really really missed in MS-DOS is the IOBYTE. I've done enought whacky wild things with the IOBYTE (debugging a program running on one screen by interacting with the debugger on another, interacting with a user on one terminal while drawing pictures on a Tek 4010, even a serial mouse-based dorky little sketch program) that I really miss it. But by far the absolutely most important thing CP/M does better than MS-DOS is be hardware independent. The CP/M community isn't tied to one hardware platform like the MS-DOS community is. Sure, there _used_ to be wild and interesting MS-DOS machines, but you can no longer run even the most basic software on anything that doesn't have memory mapped video in a certain location, a pair of 8259 interrupt controllers, 8250 UARTs, a particular keyboard controller, etc. I'm split about whether CP/M's filesystem or MS-DOS's file system is worse. FAT sucks big time (especially FAT12), but at least it doesn't have to go searching through the entire directory every 16KB. Of course, given exactly how much FAT sucks, it's usually only one day a week or so that I think CP/M's filesystem is worse than MS-DOS's... Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 13 11:33:37 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: CP/M Message-ID: <199712131733.AA19404@world.std.com> > Now... there are CPM for PC products like CCPM, DRdos7 and OpenDOS ...and Concurrent DOS (I think?) manney From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sat Dec 13 17:49:14 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Cipher model 540 tape drive anyone? In-Reply-To: <199712131733.AA19404@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199712140443.XAA21779@mail.cgocable.net> Hi all! A short note: Active Susplus store in Toronto is selling bone-white iwth keypad apple II-e type seems complete and recently saw a Osborne that uses coiled keyboard cable with that dinky teesy monitor at $24. Passed it for that stupid price (pirate!) (How can I tell without powering it or open the shells up for custom internal upgrades? Also I saw 2 boxes (2ft cubic) full of external Nec Multispin cdrom scsi drives in varying conditions like frozen spindle, some rattling around inside and heavy wear and tear, plain dirty at $15 each. I did check 3 or 5 and the chances is too low to hit one that can be easily repaired within reason using 2 or 3 but the cost alone is cheaper to get used working one everywhere else. Now from the spotting back to this subject of mine: Classic and some minor not so classic queries... I dug up the Cipher model 540 tape drive, originally problem was loose rivet holding the rotor shell that moves the tape along, I repaired that with a epoxy-like clear glue. Now it should spin just fine but it MIGHT need rework to get it balanced because the repair was done 2 years ago but never used it! This is one with green LED and a 1/4 turn lever that latches tape cartidge in. The tape cartidge is larger than the standard 120mb tapes but I forgot the office designation for this size. :)) Other than that, the condition is excellent. Could anyone tell me what it's size and if anyone interested *as IS*, I can give it away for free, but you pay the shipping. Canada and USA ok. Thanks! Jason D. PS: I just started digging into my junk bins and trying to sort out junk and toss most of them out to school for their electronics classes or similar. Dispoal is poor option as it cost to dispose 'em of. And I have few boxes to go through. Be warned, most of junk are in pieces and none of them are non-working, parted out and none are classic types. I need to get space back and also primary reason to help me to start anew in my life. PSS: I have a IBM 8513 monitor, flyback replaced, all caps seemly checked out ok with my ESR meter but I still can't get the best focus and minor doming compared to good 8513 which I had once before that. If one has a good tube or cheap new substitute tube suitable to this one otherwise I would be glad to sell it as is if one wants it for the parts. But main need: I need suitable used SVGA 14"- 15" monitor that has excellent tube, just some work on the guts to get 100% is desired in place of this 8513 because all I had is this dinky small 9" vga mono also is IBM! From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Mon Dec 15 23:51:25 1997 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: <01bd09e6$a53fecc0$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Just testing. Havn't had any mail at all from the list lately. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971216/591782a5/attachment.html From jfeld at mail.bcpl.lib.md.us Tue Dec 16 11:28:25 1997 From: jfeld at mail.bcpl.lib.md.us (Jim Feld) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: iRMX question for Clark Geisler Message-ID: <3496BA39.1975D35F@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us> Dear Sir: I have been looking for someone to format and copy some hard disks used on an iRMX system. I noticed that you mentioned a company - InBUS - that repaired some of your equipment. I searched for references to them but found nothing promising. Perhaps you sitll have some information about them. If so would you be so kind as to pass along their contact info? At any rate I hope it all worked out for you. Ahhh... the joys of "Legacy Equipment"! thanks, Jim Feld Hathaway Industrial Automation From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 16 10:05:25 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: new additions: tandy mc10 Message-ID: <75bf0bfa.3496a6d2@aol.com> just acquired a little computer called a trs80 model mc-10. at first i though it was a timex sinclair variant, but it really seems to be a baby coco. doesnt look to be expandable though and of course, i'm missing the ac adaptor. anyone have additional info? david From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Dec 16 11:36:47 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: new additions: tandy mc10 Message-ID: >just acquired a little computer called a trs80 model mc-10. at first i though >it was a timex sinclair variant, but it really seems to be a baby coco. doesnt >look to be expandable though and of course, i'm missing the ac adaptor. anyone >have additional info? I might be able to help - I came across one recently but haven't had the chance to stop by to pick it up. Anyway, the MC-10 or Micro Color Computer (I assume they are the same thing here - if I'm wrong please discount any comments I make here) cost around $120 when first released, and it was intended to compete with the Timex and VIC-20. (And, I imagine, the TI 99/2 - did any of these ever appear?) I don't know of its success as such, but as I have only seen the one I suspect it was far from great, especially considering that it was released late (for a ultra-cheap throw-away computer) against stiff competition. According to my info, video was 16 lines by 32 characters (uppercase only) with 8 colours. Apparantly there were also 16 graphics characters. It came with 4k RAM, expandable to 16K, and used the Motorola 6803. It has sound, but I have no idea about how good it was, and, as per normal, used cassettes for storage. They look keen, anyway. The one I am after was marked at $100 - they tried to tell me that was the price. I doubt it was much more here when new. :) I managed to talk them down to $15, but that was $14 more than I had on me - so I need to go back and get one of my own. Maybe this weekend. Hope that helps, Adam. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Tue Dec 16 11:51:06 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: new additions: tandy mc10 In-Reply-To: <75bf0bfa.3496a6d2@aol.com> Message-ID: David: The MC-10 is indeed a baby CoCo. Actually, however, it is expandable with more memory, tape drive, etc., etc. I'm sure others on the list can give you more details, as they did for me when I got my MC-10 several months ago. It's a nice little machine. CORD ############################################################################## # Cord G. Coslor -- P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE # # (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 # # Classic computer software and hardware collector # # Autograph collector # ############################################################################## #The##/ ___ /#/ ___ /##/ ___ /#/ /##/ /#/_ __/#/ /#/ /#/ _____## #####/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /##/ /##/__/#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /####### ####/ ___ /#/ _ __/##/ /#######/ ___ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ _____/### ###/ /##/ /#/ /#\ \###/ /##/ /#/ /##/ /###/ /###/ /#/ /#/ /######### ##/__/##/__/#/_/###\_\#/________/#/__/##/__/#/______/#/_______/#/________/#### ############################################################################## On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, SUPRDAVE wrote: > just acquired a little computer called a trs80 model mc-10. at first i though > it was a timex sinclair variant, but it really seems to be a baby coco. doesnt > look to be expandable though and of course, i'm missing the ac adaptor. anyone > have additional info? > > david > From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Dec 16 12:32:50 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: RK05 question & stuff FS/T Message-ID: <0f1c830341810c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Before I start tearing apart my two "new" RK05 drives, can anyone tell me if the panel lamps are removable without soldering? I have a copule of lamps that need to be replaced and I can't see too well into the cavity. Also, I'm looking to get rid of two DEC 200/MC remote access concentrators and a Multi-Tech modem rack. The modem rack is cool, filled with 12, 2400 baud modems. I got these as part of a 6' equipment rack (which is now filled with a PDP11/34a). Also, just an aside. I sent the now-infamous Altair scans tape to Bill Whitson. I would assume that in the next two weeks they should be posted to the ftp site (assuming that they pass Bill's tests!) Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Dec 16 12:47:09 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: RK05 question & stuff FS/T In-Reply-To: <0f1c830341810c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Before I start tearing apart my two "new" RK05 drives, can anyone tell me if > the panel lamps are removable without soldering? I have a copule of lamps > that need to be replaced and I can't see too well into the cavity. Yes they are (at least, they are on all my RK05's). It's easiest to remove the entire front panel from the drive (4 Phillips screws), when you can trivially see the PCB that holds the switches and the lamps. The lamps plug into little sockets on the PCB - just pull them straight out. We call these lamps T 1 3/4 (That's 'T' one and three quarters) bi-pin bulbs in the UK. No idea what they're called elsewhere. > Rich Cini/WUGNET -tony From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Dec 16 14:14:19 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for //gs system? Message-ID: <0fdee59152010c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> I found a guy on comp.sys.apple2 selling //gs systems. $125 + S/H for a very clean ROM.03 version with both 51/4 and 31/2 floppy drives, an RGB monitor, keyboard, and all cables. Since this is my first time looking at the //gs's, how does that price sound? He also has ROM.01 versions. Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Dec 16 15:19:18 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for //gs system? Message-ID: <199712162115.PAA12240@sunflower.com> For that price it should have 4megs. Im a //gs user as well ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Good price for //gs system? > Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 2:14 PM > > I found a guy on comp.sys.apple2 selling //gs systems. $125 + S/H for a very > clean ROM.03 version with both 51/4 and 31/2 floppy drives, an RGB monitor, > keyboard, and all cables. > > Since this is my first time looking at the //gs's, how does that price > sound? He also has ROM.01 versions. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > Charter ClubWin! Member > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > > > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Dec 16 10:53:35 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for PS/2 8570-E61? (expanded to 80mb and 4mb) In-Reply-To: <0fdee59152010c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Message-ID: <199712162149.QAA01053@mail.cgocable.net> I spotted this PS/2 at local store pc reseller/repair and watch/clock combo store (One block away. cute!) from trade in, offered $40 CDN (accepted, will pick it up with cash in January, cuz I'm strapped for rest of this month.) for whole thing (keyboard included maybe?) Clean condition, just a blue button floppy eject missing which I can repair. I know this an MCA bus and I do have small collection of MCA cards. (Dual async 16550AFN card and minor other things.) I do not know which motherboard type 1 or 2 yet. Both type 1 and 2 used either 16mhz or 20mhz version. I happen to have 386/387 20mhz and Rapid CAD set. Did this boards used different one OSC chip used for each 16mhz or 20mhz? Because I'm considering hopping it up to 20mhz this way by this OSC swap and pull the original cpu just in case if's buggy batch. I'm still looking for a Axx 25mhz with or without 486 upgrade platform motherboard (TYPE 3, and it's 64k cached BTW.) for this model 70 IF the price is still cheap. :)) If you have any info or comments, as I'm focusing on getting most performance out of it. So I welcome yours words. :) One side comments: I also have a model 50Z motherboard to play with too. This board is one of fastest 286 that IBM ever designed. It requires 85ns or less to work properly in 0 wait state mode. But dumb thing that IBM did was limit it to 2mb max. (!!) Therefore, requires proper fast memory expansion card in MCA slot to get 16mb. Oh, this stupid 16mb limits happens with all early PS/2 286, 386dx/sx and early 486 still limits to 16mb with a card because IBM usually limits about half of this. :(( Is Model 80 is free of this silly thing? Dust off your trumpets and drums and start a big racket, throw tinsels: This model 70 WILL hit 10year mark this January, fitting timing! Troll (Jason D.) PS: what's up with this monitor related email? :) From bwit at pobox.com Tue Dec 16 17:10:12 1997 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: new additions: tandy mc10 Message-ID: <01BD0A45.D6DBEB80@ppp-151-164-39-159.rcsntx.swbell.net> The AC adapter is still available from Radio Shack although at a premium price - about $25. There is also a 16K memory add-on that can sometimes be found used on the net. Bob ---------- From: SUPRDAVE[SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 10:05 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: new additions: tandy mc10 just acquired a little computer called a trs80 model mc-10. at first i though it was a timex sinclair variant, but it really seems to be a baby coco. doesnt look to be expandable though and of course, i'm missing the ac adaptor. anyone have additional info? david From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 16 19:55:20 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for //gs system? In-Reply-To: <199712162115.PAA12240@sunflower.com> Message-ID: Actually that doesn't sound like two bad of a price for a bare bones //gs, especially if it includes the Keyboard and _Mouse_ (as both work on any Mac SE or newer, there is demand just for them). I did some looking a few months ago when I was looking for a //gs, and the average seemed to be $250 at that time, needless to say I didn't spend that. Everynow and then I see them at GoodWill, and that's where I got one, I think it cost me about $50 for a ROM.01, with a 1Mb card, and monitor. The drives go for $10-15 at the local GW, but I had drives, keyboard, mouse and manuals from a previous deal I'd gotten at an auction. You can get the Operating System off of Apple's web site (I forget where). If it's got a 4Mb RAM card, a SCSI card, or an accelerated CPU I say it's definitly worth the price. On the other had I personally don't see them being worth that much, they seem to be rather inflated in price typically. They are a very cool computer though. IIRC there are a couple businesses selling them for about $500, how is that for inflated! Zane >For that price it should have 4megs. Im a //gs user as well > > >> I found a guy on comp.sys.apple2 selling //gs systems. $125 + S/H for a >very >> clean ROM.03 version with both 51/4 and 31/2 floppy drives, an RGB >monitor, >> keyboard, and all cables. >> >> Since this is my first time looking at the //gs's, how does that price >> sound? He also has ROM.01 versions. >> >> Rich Cini/WUGNET >> Charter ClubWin! Member >> MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >> >> >> >> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 16 21:30:37 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Cipher model 540 tape drive anyone? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971216193154.5787ea5e@ricochet.net> At 11:49 PM 12/13/97 +0000, you wrote: >recently saw a Osborne >that uses coiled keyboard cable with that dinky teesy monitor at $24. >Passed it for that stupid price (pirate!) (How can I tell >without powering it or open the shells up for custom internal Is that canadian $? Osbornes seem to regularly sell on ebay for US$100+; $24 doesn't seem like such a bad investment. (You could get that much for it even if it didn't work. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Dec 16 16:48:50 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Cipher model 540 tape drive anyone? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971216193154.5787ea5e@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199712170344.WAA08225@mail.cgocable.net> > At 11:49 PM 12/13/97 +0000, you wrote: > >recently saw a Osborne > >that uses coiled keyboard cable with that dinky teesy monitor at $24. > >Passed it for that stupid price (pirate!) (How can I tell > >without powering it or open the shells up for custom internal > > Is that canadian $? Osbornes seem to regularly sell on ebay for US$100+; > $24 doesn't seem like such a bad investment. (You could get that much for > it even if it didn't work. Yes, canadian dollars. Any tips to find out if this already does have or not: hardware upgrades, etc? Because I can not open it up on site and does not have anything, no boot disk, no power cord. Just that. This store is more of rummage junk store with old parts in bins. Lot of vague useful parts (GOOD THING I can identify most of them from my experience), oddball heatsinks (some of them are subaverage type or bit pricey), lots of old and new motors, transformers, old capacitors (not fresh enough), batch of new junk parts comes usually once a month. All I do is letting you know if anyone is interested in this Osborne. Jason D. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Dec 16 23:25:46 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for //gs system? Message-ID: <01bd0aac$3a9778e0$0100007f@localhost> Does anyone know 'bout an emulator for a IIGS? (For x86) -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 8:02 AM Subject: Re: Good price for //gs system? > >Actually that doesn't sound like two bad of a price for a bare bones //gs, >especially if it includes the Keyboard and _Mouse_ (as both work on any Mac >SE or newer, there is demand just for them). I did some looking a few >months ago when I was looking for a //gs, and the average seemed to be $250 >at that time, needless to say I didn't spend that. > >Everynow and then I see them at GoodWill, and that's where I got one, I >think it cost me about $50 for a ROM.01, with a 1Mb card, and monitor. The >drives go for $10-15 at the local GW, but I had drives, keyboard, mouse and >manuals from a previous deal I'd gotten at an auction. You can get the >Operating System off of Apple's web site (I forget where). > >If it's got a 4Mb RAM card, a SCSI card, or an accelerated CPU I say it's >definitly worth the price. > >On the other had I personally don't see them being worth that much, they >seem to be rather inflated in price typically. They are a very cool >computer though. IIRC there are a couple businesses selling them for about >$500, how is that for inflated! > > Zane > >>For that price it should have 4megs. Im a //gs user as well >> >> >>> I found a guy on comp.sys.apple2 selling //gs systems. $125 + S/H for a >>very >>> clean ROM.03 version with both 51/4 and 31/2 floppy drives, an RGB >>monitor, >>> keyboard, and all cables. >>> >>> Since this is my first time looking at the //gs's, how does that price >>> sound? He also has ROM.01 versions. >>> >>> Rich Cini/WUGNET >>> Charter ClubWin! Member >>> MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | > > From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Dec 17 04:27:33 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Good price for //gs system? Message-ID: <199712171027.FAA31658@server1.netpath.net> At 08:25 AM 12/17/97 +0300, you wrote: >Does anyone know 'bout an emulator for a IIGS? (For x86) Take a look at this: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=201474433 It's a IIe emulator though. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 17 06:32:36 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971217073236.0068aa6c@mail.wincom.net> Having just received the donation of a Wang 2200 mini for the Windsor Science Centre, (no documentation of course,) am wondering if anyone can give me any information on it? We also received a Kim-1, but lots of info on that. Thanks Charlie Fox From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Dec 17 07:22:15 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: RK05 question & stuff FS/T Message-ID: <09c6307291311c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> On Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:47:09 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: >>Yes they are (at least, they are on all my RK05's). It's easiest to remove >>the entire front panel from the drive (4 Phillips screws), when you can >>trivially see the PCB that holds the switches and the lamps. The lamps >>plug into little sockets on the PCB - just pull them straight out. >>We call these lamps T 1 3/4 (That's 'T' one and three quarters) bi-pin >>bulbs in the UK. No idea what they're called elsewhere. The T 1-3/4 size exists here in the US, too, but I most frequently I see it in referring to LEDs. The T 1-3/4 incandescent bulb size is E-5 (for 5mm), I think. Anyway, so long as I am replacing these lights, why can't I replace them with amber LEDs? I figure that I can plug an LED-resistor combo into the same socket and tune the brightness with the resistor. I remember reading somewhere that the lamp power is 8v. I'll test it first, but does this sound right? Thanks for the info, Tony. Rich Cini/WUGNET Charter ClubWin! Member MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Dec 17 07:45:01 1997 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: E-mail address acrobatics. Message-ID: <13316803247.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I'm getting ready to kill the other account (dseagrav@tek-star.net). If you want to mail me, please mail me here (dseagrav@toad.xkl.com). The tek-star account will be active for a little longer, maybe a week. ------- From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Wed Dec 17 08:36:34 1997 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 References: <3.0.2.32.19971217073236.0068aa6c@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3497E372.600F@digiweb.com> Charles E. Fox wrote: > > Having just received the donation of a Wang 2200 mini for the Windsor > Science Centre, (no documentation of course,) am wondering if anyone can > give me any information on it? > We also received a Kim-1, but lots of info on that. > > Thanks > Charlie Fox Just this morning I came across which lists information about Wang systems. Hope this helps... -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From kroma at worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 17 08:18:51 1997 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Apple //gs emulator Message-ID: <001401bd0af6$b50b6f60$64f8430a@kroma-i> >Does anyone know 'bout an emulator for a IIGS? (For x86) There is XGS. Its available at http://www.jurai.org/~funaho/emulators/XGS/ -- Kirk From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Dec 17 10:06:15 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Cipher model 540 tape drive anyone? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971217080730.330f2654@ricochet.net> At 10:48 PM 12/16/97 +0000, you wrote: >Any tips to find out if this already does have or not: >hardware upgrades, etc? Because I can not open it up on site and >does not have anything, no boot disk, no power cord. Just that. I don't know, I'm afraid. (I think, though, that it uses a standard IEC line cord? Or is my memory gone?) >All I do is letting you know if anyone is interested in this Osborne. If I were lucky enough to be going to Canada any time soon, I buy it off you, but I already have several, and can't really justify the shipping costs. (Especially right now. 8^( ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 17 10:54:25 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Apple //gs emulator Message-ID: <01bd0b0c$6e9c6be0$c963bcc1@photze> Thanks. I owe you one. Now.... if I could only get the ROM. (I don't currenlty own one; but they're really cool. When I got my hands on one; they were old and outdated, at a friends house. At the time, I had no respects for classics.) Bye, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: kroma To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 5:21 PM Subject: Apple //gs emulator > > > >>Does anyone know 'bout an emulator for a IIGS? (For x86) > > >There is XGS. Its available at http://www.jurai.org/~funaho/emulators/XGS/ > > -- Kirk > > From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Dec 17 11:49:57 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: RK05 question & stuff FS/T In-Reply-To: <09c6307291311c7UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote: > The T 1-3/4 size exists here in the US, too, but I most frequently I see > it in referring to LEDs. The T 1-3/4 incandescent bulb size is E-5 (for > 5mm), I think. It's almost the opposite here - LED's are called 5mm (or occasionally E5), bulbs are T1-3/4... > > Anyway, so long as I am replacing these lights, why can't I replace them > with amber LEDs? I figure that I can plug an LED-resistor combo into the All my RK05's have little DEC 'modules' containing an LED and a resistor in place of the bulb. Most of them are red LED's, I think, but my RK05F has yellow ones (apart from the 'fault' lamp, of course). > same socket and tune the brightness with the resistor. I remember reading > somewhere that the lamp power is 8v. I'll test it first, but does this sound > right? I can't remember what the lamp supply is, but it's probably either 8V or 15V (there's certainly a +15V line in the drive). If you can wait a few days I'll look in the printset for you. I don't think there's a pre-heat resistor for each bulb in the RK05 (there generally is on CPU front panels from DEC), but if there is you'll need to remove it. > > Thanks for the info, Tony. > > Rich Cini/WUGNET -tony From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed Dec 17 11:58:39 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: E-mail address acrobatics. In-Reply-To: <13316803247.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971217095839.006fa544@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi Daniel: Just to let you know that those boards arrived in Seattle, I'll be heading down to get them this weekend or next week! Thanks, I'm still getting the DEQNA pinout for you, Kevin At 05:45 AM 97/12/17 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm getting ready to kill the other account (dseagrav@tek-star.net). >If you want to mail me, please mail me here (dseagrav@toad.xkl.com). >The tek-star account will be active for a little longer, maybe a week. > >------- > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Dec 17 12:12:24 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: GRiD-OS sources? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19971217095839.006fa544@ferrari.sfu.ca> References: <13316803247.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971217131224.007d1a70@netpath.net> Looking for a source for copies of GRiD-OS system disks and manuals. They date back to '85-'86. My GRiDCASE 3 runs GRiD-OS in ROM, dual boots with MS-DOS 2.11, but alot of the apps won't run unless I have an actual GRiD-OS program disk in the 720k floppy. What really bites is the floppy format program is on one of those program floppies, so what software I can use in ROM, I can't save anything to floppy. I figure if some of you guys still have PDP software laying around and use it, something this new should be a cinch to find! :) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Dec 17 13:01:36 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E possibly available... Message-ID: It looks like I may have a line on a couple (maybe three) of PDP-8/E CPUs, and while I intend to pickup one of them for my collection, it may make the deal easier if I take more than one (perhaps all) of them. So... anyone out there looking for a PDP-8/E to call their own? At the moment, I'm trying to gauge interest. Prices have not been finalized yet, and they are on the East Coast, so shipping will be a consideration as well. If you are interested, please drop me a note (please don't reply to the list) and indicate what one would be worth to you, and what options you want (need) to have... At present, it appears that all of the available units will have at least 16k of core, and EAE. The units are reported to be in good condition, recently removed from service. CPU chassis (box) only, (to save on shipping) none of the 6 foot 'corporate' racks... (unless someone *really* wants one) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Dec 17 08:49:56 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Cipher model 540 tape drive anyone? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971217080730.330f2654@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199712171945.OAA18703@mail.cgocable.net> > At 10:48 PM 12/16/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Any tips to find out if this already does have or not: > >hardware upgrades, etc? Because I can not open it up on site and > >does not have anything, no boot disk, no power cord. Just that. > > I don't know, I'm afraid. (I think, though, that it uses a standard IEC > line cord? Or is my memory gone?) It does has the standard Peecee type power cord. But that does not help any if I want to power it up without disk in it. There are two types: 90kb and 180kb drives with associated board and video upgrades. That, I need to know that. If I come across Osborne again. > >All I do is letting you know if anyone is interested in this Osborne. > > If I were lucky enough to be going to Canada any time soon, I buy it off > you, but I already have several, and can't really justify the shipping > costs. (Especially right now. 8^( ) Sure, I would do that but I was offering the service to anyone who wishes it. Jason D. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > > From mmeisner at nova.umuc.edu Wed Dec 17 15:02:47 1997 From: mmeisner at nova.umuc.edu (Milton Meisner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: Kaypro Message-ID: <34983DF7.37B@nova.umuc.edu> Do you still have the Kaypro. please EMAIL me at JOHNGRAFF@COMPUSERVE.COM Thanks From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 17 15:35:07 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? Message-ID: <3f0d4b29.3498458d@aol.com> i saw a complete tandem computer system for sale for $8 today. it has the usual desktop case, a monitor and two external 5.25 floppy drives with what appears to be a seagate mfm drive with each floppy drive! the system is complete, and everything is connected together, but was unable to test it. is this thing worth getting, or is it just another pc compatible? i have plenty of xt and 286 variants to keep me going for a long time. if its something else, or has significant historical value, i'll go get it. david From IMoeschel at t-online.de Wed Dec 17 15:08:52 1997 From: IMoeschel at t-online.de (IM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: I am also a Glad Cromemeco User System 2 Message-ID: <34983F64.446AD954@t-online.de> Hi just wont to say hello fro Germany. That I have a Cromemco System 2 to in Use (But lack of Software) Also 10 MB or I believe 5 MB HDD is not working correctly It would be nice if we could xchange Info on these Very Huge and Old Computers >>>>32 Bit in 1995 I don't think so Cromix 1977 <<<<<<< Thanx Ingo From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 17 18:02:27 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? In-Reply-To: <3f0d4b29.3498458d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971217180227.584785e0@intellistar.net> At 04:35 PM 12/17/97 EST, you wrote: >i saw a complete tandem computer system for sale for $8 today. it has the >usual desktop case, a monitor and two external 5.25 floppy drives with what >appears to be a seagate mfm drive with each floppy drive! the system is >complete, and everything is connected together, but was unable to test it. is >this thing worth getting, or is it just another pc compatible? i have plenty >of xt and 286 variants to keep me going for a long time. if its something >else, or has significant historical value, i'll go get it. > >david > Dave, FWIW There is one here in a surplus store. If the Tandem turns out to be anything of significance, you might wnat to see about picking it up for spares. I haven't looked at it close and I don't know it's exact condition or price. Joe From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Dec 17 16:15:32 1997 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E possibly available... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13316896181.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Hmm... How much would it cost to ship an 8/E? ------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Dec 17 16:39:26 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? In-Reply-To: <3f0d4b29.3498458d@aol.com> Message-ID: <199712172313.RAA13518@onyx.southwind.net> SUPRDAVE wrote: > i saw a complete tandem computer system for sale for $8 today. it has the > usual desktop case, a monitor and two external 5.25 floppy drives with what > appears to be a seagate mfm drive with each floppy drive! the system is > complete, and everything is connected together, but was unable to test it. is > this thing worth getting, or is it just another pc compatible? i have plenty > of xt and 286 variants to keep me going for a long time. if its something > else, or has significant historical value, i'll go get it. > > david > Ahh, are you sure it says 'TANDEM' and not 'Tandon'? ^^ ^^ If it were a TANDEM, you'd have a difficult time getting it onto a desktop (in fact, it would probly crush it). Unless, this were a PeeCee with their name on it, used as a maintainence terminal for these fault-tolerant beasts (I suspect both the NonStop and NonStop II's do qualify as classics now, BTW). On the other hand, Tandon (of disk drive fame) did build a line of PeeCee's into the mid 90's (one of their factories was in The LA area, across the street from one of the accounts I used to service at the time). A friend of mine bought one in 1990 (or thereabouts). It seemed like a pretty solid machine (for a PeeCee, that is). I don't suspect its terribly collectable, but you know what they say: Different strokes . . . Jeff From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Dec 17 17:28:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: PDP-8/E possibly available... In-Reply-To: <13316896181.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Dec 17, 97 02:15:32 pm Message-ID: <9712172328.AA17223@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971217/ce66c07e/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Wed Dec 17 18:46:27 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? In-Reply-To: <199712172313.RAA13518@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: > If it were a TANDEM, you'd have a difficult time getting it onto a > desktop (in fact, it would probly crush it). Unless, this were a > PeeCee with their name on it, used as a maintainence terminal for > these fault-tolerant beasts (I suspect both the NonStop and NonStop > II's do qualify as classics now, BTW). Yes, one place I deal with uses modern Tandems, and they do have badged PeeCees as consoles. William Donzelli william@ans.net From manney at nwohio.com Wed Dec 17 19:15:13 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? Message-ID: <199712180147.RAA14082@mx4.u.washington.edu> If it's that cheap, I'd get it for the drives and the controller board. That sort of thing is getting harder to find year by year. manney From foxnhare at goldrush.com Wed Dec 17 20:10:33 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:55 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 266 References: <199712170802.AAA13291@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34988618.7A93@goldrush.com> Speaking of Osbornes, I recently ran across an Osborne 4 (I didn't even know they went that high), in a nice blue and white molded plastic case. The keyboard (kinda small) flipped open on hinges to reveal a 9"display, and couple drives (I think there were two), and given the portables of the time it was reatively light! Was able to attempt a power-up but no display... Bummer at $15 It almost went for the VFC 2.0 sale booth.. :) =================================================================== Did some updating to the PET FAQ, some notes on how to program sound. including a table of the notes you can produce, a listing of the extremely small but useful tape2disk program, etc. Next probably will be PET memory maps (all three ROMs, orogonal upgrade and 4.0); I have been attempting this the lazy route of scanning them in, but the books I have all use such small point sizes that the OCR program has problems translating. I will try to use a copier to enlarge them someday soon. I have cleared space on one of my desks (my brother is now a proud owner of a complete Amiga 500 system, which of course, I will still have access to) to set up a PET after a few years without easy access to one. This PET (32k upgrade ROMs) needs some work as one program keeps locking it up, I suspect it may be one of the 6520s... It also needs to have the RAM checked (anyone know a source for 4116-4s?) Once I get comfortable working with this one I'll switch and see about getting the SuperPET running and also the original PET (which I really want to get to, as I now have an EPROM programmer to read the ROMs with.) Another recent arrival is a package from DigiKey of 10-12/24 edgeboard connectors, for making a PET joystick adaptor, a mini-networking project I've been thinking about, and I may try this 'PET composite Video Adapter' I have plans for to see if it actually does not work as Enrico has warned me... The PET shares space with a VIC-20 (also recently set-up) and maybe if I can squeeze it in, a Plus/4 too.. Then I would have a large portion of the Commodore 8-bit models runnable (C128, C-64, Plus/4, VIC-20, PET). Some of my plans would be to refine my disk collections and work up some menus and utilites for each of the machines (including some sort of standardized compression/archive utility). I am anxiously awaiting the new year as many more families upgrade their older systems to something more contemporary and take their older ones to yard sales, flea markets, and thrift shops (or maybe call me to take them off their hands.)... ;) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Wed Dec 17 21:20:53 1997 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Ailing C64-SX In-Reply-To: <34988618.7A93@goldrush.com> Message-ID: I've reciently inherited the old Commodore 64 that had the little monitor built into the case (similar to a Kaypro but thinner). Upon powering on the system is silent but there seems to be a rastor on the display. (In otherwords the display glows but that is it). Was there a common thing to look for on these? George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 18 01:14:26 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 266 In-Reply-To: <34988618.7A93@goldrush.com> References: <199712170802.AAA13291@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971218011426.486f63ec@intellistar.net> Larry, Let me know if you have trouble finding 4116 ICs. There is a trift store nearby that strips a lot of old PCs and they sell boards for $1 ea. I found they're a great source of old ICs. Joe At 06:10 PM 12/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >Speaking of Osbornes, I recently ran across an Osborne 4 (I didn't >even know they went that high), in a nice blue and white molded plastic >case. The keyboard (kinda small) flipped open on hinges to reveal a >9"display, and couple drives (I think there were two), and given the >portables of the time it was reatively light! Was able to attempt a >power-up but no display... Bummer at $15 It almost went for the VFC 2.0 >sale booth.. :) > >=================================================================== > > Did some updating to the PET FAQ, some notes on how to program sound. >including a table of the notes you can produce, a listing of the >extremely small but useful tape2disk program, etc. Next probably will >be PET memory maps (all three ROMs, orogonal upgrade and 4.0); I have >been attempting this the lazy route of scanning them in, but the books I >have all use such small point sizes that the OCR program has problems >translating. I will try to use a copier to enlarge them someday soon. > > I have cleared space on one of my desks (my brother is now a proud >owner of a complete Amiga 500 system, which of course, I will still have >access to) to set up a PET after a few years without easy access to >one. This PET (32k upgrade ROMs) needs some work as one program keeps >locking it up, I suspect it may be one of the 6520s... It also needs to >have the RAM checked (anyone know a source for 4116-4s?) Once I get >comfortable working with this one I'll switch and see about getting the >SuperPET running and also the original PET (which I really want to get >to, as I now have an EPROM programmer to read the ROMs with.) > > Another recent arrival is a package from DigiKey of 10-12/24 edgeboard >connectors, for making a PET joystick adaptor, a mini-networking project >I've been thinking about, and I may try this 'PET composite Video >Adapter' I have plans for to see if it actually does not work as Enrico >has warned me... > > The PET shares space with a VIC-20 (also recently set-up) and maybe if >I can squeeze it in, a Plus/4 too.. Then I would have a large portion >of the Commodore 8-bit models runnable (C128, C-64, >Plus/4, VIC-20, PET). Some of my plans would be to refine my disk >collections and work up some menus and utilites for each of the machines >(including some sort of standardized compression/archive utility). > > I am anxiously awaiting the new year as many more families upgrade >their older systems to something more contemporary and take their older >ones to yard sales, flea markets, and thrift shops (or maybe call me to >take them off their hands.)... ;) > > Larry Anderson >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ >Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Dec 17 23:32:32 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Help needed in Australia: Anyone? Message-ID: <3499b513.939894326@mail.wizards.net> Found this on Usenet. Can anyone help this fellow out? I know I've got at least one spare MicroVAX II CPU, possibly an 11/73... Please reply directly to the author. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!iagnet.net!btnet-peer!btnet!knews.uk0.vbc.net!vbcnet-gb!news.mira.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail From: aceware@iinet.net.au (Tony Epton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: WTB: 11/73 cpu chips or cards or repair. Ditto MicroVax II Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:52:13 GMT Organization: Aceware Programming Pty Ltd Lines: 13 Message-ID: <349839d0.132980179@news.m.iinet.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: grunge166.nv.iinet.net.au X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58419 We have four 11/73 cpu cards in our museum collection which will run the ODT but cannot execute any instructions. We suspect the CPU chips. Can anyone source the cpu chips or the entire board at a reasonable price or service the boards at a reasonable price. Ditto MicroVax II cpu boards. Thanks Tony Epton President Australian Computer Museum Association (WA Branch) -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu Thu Dec 18 08:56:28 1997 From: jott at whitefang.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: TO TONY DUELL Message-ID: <199712181456.JAA15070@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I am still using my HP 71. Do you want to sell your HP 71 service manual? John > I remember that at the HP calculator conference 5 years ago I bought an > HP71 service manual. Now, this manual is not common, and it came in the > original shrink-wrap. Having got it, I ripped off said shrink-wrap, opened > the manual, and started reading. You see, I didn't buy the manual as an > example of HP shrink-wrap. I bought it to learn about the HP71. And that's > something you can only do when you've opened the manual. > > > > > No flame wars please, just the random philosophical question... > > Well, it's your machine, so you have to decide what to do in the end... > > > > > -jim > > -tony > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Dec 18 09:40:07 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: There were two sites... Message-ID: <01bd0bcb$37bc5d00$6a60bcc1@photze> I remember two sites that you guys recommended for finding classics. http://www.haggle.com was one... and the other? Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971218/a68b61e4/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 18 18:15:25 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: RK05 question & stuff FS/T In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 17, 97 05:49:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971219/b1635bf7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 18 18:01:10 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: TO TONY DUELL In-Reply-To: <199712181456.JAA15070@whitefang.ee.nd.edu> from "John Ott" at Dec 18, 97 09:56:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 546 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971219/fc5b9878/attachment.ksh From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Thu Dec 18 20:16:11 1997 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 and question about ISA card Message-ID: I just got an IBM Series/1! This is going to be fun, but it's going to take a long time to get running. It's filled with more dust than I've ever seen in a computer, and it uses 230v which means I don't have much of a choice of where to plug it into. And the manuals... That's going to take WEEKS to go through! But hey, I got four 200MB hard drives, a 4956-K00 CPU, a few I/O units and an 8 inch floppy drive out of it! Whheee! I LOVE those 8 inch drives! OK, thats going to take a while to sort through everything. On to the PC card. I found this strange 8-bit card labeled: Scan Doubler S/N 1179 PGS P/N8403001 It has two DB-9 connectors on the end, and it was pulled from an old PC. It's probably about a half length card. Any ideas on what it is? I was thinking some sort of dual-monitor video card... TIA From dastar at wco.com Fri Dec 19 15:18:33 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? In-Reply-To: <3f0d4b29.3498458d@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, SUPRDAVE wrote: > i saw a complete tandem computer system for sale for $8 today. it has the > usual desktop case, a monitor and two external 5.25 floppy drives with what > appears to be a seagate mfm drive with each floppy drive! the system is Does it have a blank face-plate on the front of the case as opposed to internal disk drives? If so, I've got one of these. I haven't been able to play with it yet, or even get inside it yet, but I do know it is fairly uncommon. Supposedly it is MS-DOS compatible and runs an 8088 or something. I'd say for $8, grab it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Fri Dec 19 15:23:35 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: whats a TANDEM computer? In-Reply-To: <199712172313.RAA13518@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > I don't suspect its terribly collectable, but you know what they say: > Different strokes . . . Collectibility is not the only consideration. There's also preservation and actually playing with the thing to have fun and learn from it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Fri Dec 19 18:58:30 1997 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: MiniScribe 3438P jumpers? Message-ID: <199712200058.TAA02730@webern.cs.unc.edu> Has anyone got a service manual handy for a MiniScribe 3438P? I yanked one from an XT clone to use with my SwTPC S/09, but it won't format, and the most obvious possible problem is the jumper settings. There are four that are obviously for drive selects 0..3, and three others that might be the troublemakers. I've tried some random settings, and in most of them it comes up to speed okay, selects, and then after about three seconds starts a probably unhealthy wobbling, sounding as if it is rapidly seeking a million different tracks, one after the other. In at least one setting, it doesn't always recognize when it has got up to speed, and continues ramping up to a frightening pitch. With the jumpers set as they were in the XT, it selects okay, but I get error messages any time I try to read, write, or format the thing. It still works okay in the XT though. Anyway, help would be appreciated. I've already searched the web quite a bit. Found some specs, and a thread in which people were looking for the right settings to use in a PC, but nothing about what the jumpers mean (or how to set them for an S/09!). In other news, I recently realized that I can upgrade my S/09's memory just by slapping 4164's into the unused IC sockets. I had a few lying around, so it got an immediate 64K upgrate. 192K more is on order. I can still remember when this would have cost money! :-) Cheers! Bill. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Dec 19 14:18:26 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: MiniScribe 3438P jumpers? In-Reply-To: <199712200058.TAA02730@webern.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <199712200114.UAA07913@mail.cgocable.net> > Has anyone got a service manual handy for a MiniScribe 3438P? > I yanked one from an XT clone to use with my SwTPC S/09, but > it won't format, and the most obvious possible problem is the > jumper settings. There are four that are obviously for drive > selects 0..3, and three others that might be the troublemakers. > > I've tried some random settings, and in most of them it comes > up to speed okay, selects, and then after about three seconds > starts a probably unhealthy wobbling, sounding as if it is rapidly > seeking a million different tracks, one after the other. In > at least one setting, it doesn't always recognize when it has > got up to speed, and continues ramping up to a frightening pitch. Bill, Did you get the LED attached? This uses bi-color 2 lead type. That will give us better clues! Orange is auto-park when not used for a while enabled or disabled by a jumper, flashing red in morse fashion - TROUBLE! Green when accressing/data r/w. Jumper all JP1 to JP3 and put one jumper on either 4 selections as marked DS0 to DS3. I have a Miniscribe 3650 (40mb MFM) if you want it as well as Priam V185 (appox 65mb)? I want both out to get space back! Miniscribe is tad troublesome usually compared to other hd's that I have experienced. Oh, REMEMBER to LLF it first to marry both hd and controller properly. And, I have lot and lots of 64k and 256k DRAM's from 200ns to 100ns, many of them are matched. Jason D. PS: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! > > With the jumpers set as they were in the XT, it selects okay, > but I get error messages any time I try to read, write, or > format the thing. It still works okay in the XT though. > > Anyway, help would be appreciated. I've already searched the > web quite a bit. Found some specs, and a thread in which people > were looking for the right settings to use in a PC, but nothing > about what the jumpers mean (or how to set them for an S/09!). > > > In other news, I recently realized that I can upgrade my S/09's > memory just by slapping 4164's into the unused IC sockets. I > had a few lying around, so it got an immediate 64K upgrate. 192K > more is on order. I can still remember when this would have > cost money! :-) > > Cheers! > Bill. From desieh at southcom.com.au Sat Dec 20 06:15:34 1997 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 video daughter card Message-ID: <199712201215.XAA04807@hobart.southcom.com.au> From: Desie Hay Email: desieh@southcom.com.au museum_curator@hotmail.com can anybody help me find a lisa video daughtercard for my lisa 2/10 i would be very greatful how can i tell if my floppy controller is stuffed, i mean on mine it could be that or the floppy drive itself, the floppy drive glows so it is getting power.... anybody got a Lisa 1 they want to sell.... From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Dec 20 08:37:10 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: MiniScribe 3438P jumpers? In-Reply-To: <199712200058.TAA02730@webern.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Dec 19, 97 07:58:30 pm Message-ID: <9712201437.AA11767@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1209 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971220/977ad425/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sat Dec 20 04:28:54 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: MiniScribe 3438P jumpers? In-Reply-To: <9712201437.AA11767@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199712200058.TAA02730@webern.cs.unc.edu> from "Bill Yakowenko" at Dec 19, 97 07:58:30 pm Message-ID: <199712201524.KAA13256@mail.cgocable.net> > > I've tried some random settings, and in most of them it comes > > up to speed okay, selects, and then after about three seconds > > starts a probably unhealthy wobbling, sounding as if it is rapidly > > seeking a million different tracks, one after the other. > > Microprocessor-controlled MFM drives of this era often do something > like this to reassure the microcode that everything is kosher. How > long does it do this for - seconds, minutes, forever? After platters spinup is done, the stepper does: seek to hard track 0 stop then seeks few back and forth to calibrate then end then back to track 0. All happens within 3 seconds max. If anything gives problems in that timeframe, it stops and flash morse code. > > In > > at least one setting, it doesn't always recognize when it has > > got up to speed, and continues ramping up to a frightening pitch. > > Y'know, at least some of the jumpers are for "factory use only". I'll > bet this is one. Some are not. I did experiment them before. > > > With the jumpers set as they were in the XT, it selects okay, > > but I get error messages any time I try to read, write, or > > format the thing. It still works okay in the XT though. > > Can you do writes in the XT? Test the HD in any peecees first to insure it's 100% and input all the defect listing during the LLF process too! Use Spinrite 3.x to "scrub" the platters at level 6 setting. Takes hours but worth it! > > Have you tried DS0, in addition to the DS1 that the XT disk controller+cable > is undoubtedly insisting on? Are you using a straight-through 34-line > cable on the S/09, like a sane disk controller design would insist on? > Or are you using one of those hokey twist-in-the-middle PC-clone cable? > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Jason D. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Dec 20 10:47:33 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Finds and info needed Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971220104733.006c5038@pop3.concentric.net> Well it's been awhile and things have slow. One of my finds yesterday was AT&T UNIX PC with KB and mouse. Unit powers up find but then wants a logon id and password, I got the unit at Goodwill for $30 so no manuals or other information about it. My question is to anyone out there is there a way to break this protection so that I can get to the harddrive ? This week I also picked up a LISA with KB and mouse for $15 and it loaded with a OS from Sun Remarketing and works great, I also got some upgrade parts for the LISA and will be installing them so I hope. I picked a large qty of computers, printers, and other items that do not meet the 10 year requirement yet but someday will and the prices were too low to pass on, so I will not list them here yet. Some of the computers in that lot were MAC Plus's, mice, and KB but I have not tested them yet. Got a TRS-80 model 100 that works but has one missing key that broken off so the guy gave me the unit for free. Got something called a Tektronix 4211 with kB and mouse for $5 (someone else got the 19" monitor for it) does anyone know what this is ?? Also a Pulse Generator Datron SPG2000 unit anyone know this one ?? A VTECH model L-128PS unit seems to work need to find more info on this one too. A Apple Peronal Laserwriter NT for $5 but it needs some work powers on but will not print anything ? A Hitachi CD-rom model CDR-1700S no way to test this baby yet (it was free). A Laser128 $5 not tested yet, a HP ThinkJet model 2225C not test yet free, Zenith model ZFA-138-42 free and not tested yet. Last was a HP 1727A Oscilloscope with manual that works for $5. I end here as I could write book, I hope to have my web site up in January there you can see my collection. Keep Computing. From gram at cnct.com Sat Dec 20 11:45:45 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Finds and info needed References: <3.0.3.32.19971220104733.006c5038@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <349C0449.271243B9@cnct.com> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Well it's been awhile and things have slow. One of my finds yesterday was > AT&T UNIX PC with KB and mouse. Unit powers up find but then wants a logon > id and password, I got the unit at Goodwill for $30 so no manuals or other > information about it. My question is to anyone out there is there a way to > break this protection so that I can get to the harddrive ? This week I Check out the newsgroup comp.sys.3b1 through Dejanews -- there's a FAQ on the Unix PC that will give you gagloads of useful data. First thing to try if you don't have installation media is to try the login name of "install". 8 times out of 10 it isn't passworded, and that account can change the root password. (Yes, that particular port of Unix has _severe_ security holes by default, most of which are easy to fix, although some of the subtler ones can be tricky -- even if you have the rare [I don't have it, though at one point I had the source code to the operating system] networking software, I strongly discourage using this system as a firewall or even dialup machine). -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From billm at teleport.com Sat Dec 20 13:18:59 1997 From: billm at teleport.com (Bill Marx) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Finds and info needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971220104733.006c5038@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Dec 20, 97 10:47:33 am Message-ID: <199712201918.LAA11761@user2.teleport.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971220/d90e85b1/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Sat Dec 20 14:45:32 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Finds and info needed Message-ID: <199712202049.MAA10910@mx3.u.washington.edu> I'd like to buy your disks (no manuals needed.) e-mail me. manney@nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Finds and info needed > Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 1:29 PM > > Greetings, > I have a PILE read manymany, copies ofDOS 4.0x and 5.0 MD-DOS for the Laser > Machines...anybody want 720k disks? GRIN the DOS 4 has a MS-DOS Manual and > the DOS 5.0 is on 5 5/14 INCH disks.. > looking for Osborne III (for no apparent reason) or any ready ANY amount of > $$ to further the collection..not looking to get rich but save cubic space > in the storage unit..well thats the secret isn't it > > Take care > > Bill Marx > billm@teleport.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 20 17:04:08 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: IBM PC XT needs a home! In-Reply-To: <199712202049.MAA10910@mx3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971220170408.469fff52@intellistar.net> I have an completely original IBM PC XT that needs a new home. I picked it up to save from the scappers, but I don't have room for it (too many PCs already.) It's in very good original conditon with the original keyboard and monochrome monitor and works fine. Has 640K of memory and the original FH 360K floppy drive and I *think* it has the math coprocessor. One problem though, it came out of a defense palnt and the hard drive was removed and destroyed for security reasons. I paid $20 for it and I'll take that for it. Located in Orlando, Florida. Prefer that someone come and pick it up but I will ship it if the buyer pays shipping and actual packing cost. Joe PS I collect old HP calculators (hand held and desktop models) and computers. Does anyone have any that they would like to sell or trade? From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sun Dec 21 00:47:52 1997 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 update Message-ID: Well, it seems that my Series/1 is not working right. I plugged it in and turned it on, and everything(CPU, FD, small HD and I/O unit) SEEMS to be working OK. Except that it won't boot. I took all the cards except CPU, FD controller and 4978 terminal I/O cards out and setup the floppy drive as the primary IPL device. Threw in a floppy labeled IPL(unknown if it really is), set the CPU to auto-IPL on primary device, the LED's on the programmer's panel lit up and did a few things and then it freezes(I waited a around 15 minutes before I gave up) with LED's 8, 9, 10, 13 and 15 on. Nothing happens at all, when the Series/1 is powered up the 4978 terminal displays a "=" in the top left corner and does nothing. Right now I'm not sure if the problem is in the CPU or floppy drive(I haven't had time to clean out the floppy drive). Does anyone have any idea what's going wrong or know someone who would know? I think the system was originally setup to IPL from one of it's four 200MB hard drives, which are still up in the garage(and I can't plug it in because of only 1 220v outlet. not good with three racks needing power) along with two tape drives and another 4959 expansion unit. Well, at least it was free... -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Dec 20 14:57:51 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971220104733.006c5038@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971220145751.00c71220@mail.northernway.net> Back in October (or was it early November... I cannot remember) our town finally had it's first hamfest. Actually, it was mostly ham stuff, but there was one person who had one table of nuthin' but classics... Got the whole table for $35... Then two days later, I went to this person's house and fixed his internet setup -- he paid me $35 for it, so the computers cost me just less than 1.5 hours of *Easy* work. Anyway, here's what I got: Vic20, datassette -- pretty grungy but he said it worked. (not tested.) 16K Std. Basic CoCo2 with the better keyboard -- but the keyboard was shot. (Keyboard felt like someone dumped sand & Coke in the keys - Yuck!) Rebuilt the keyboard, upgraded to 64K & Ext. Basic -- nice machine now. Also came with the getting started & Std. Basic manuals. A broken TS1000 (bad keyboard cable) and a boxed TS1000 & boxed 16K expansion module, with a couple programs on tape & a couple pgm books. (not tested) And for the crowning glory: A complete (hardware, software, and books) Coleco ADAM computer! I don't recall hearing this machine mentioned on the list as of yet (but I could be wrong), but it's an interesting machine! 80K Ram, 4Mhz Z-80, built-in 10cps daisy-wheel printer, all of the original dox, 2 keyboards, joysticks and a single 256K digital datassette drive. The drive allowed random access to the information on the tape (tho it was slower than floppy, for sure). It also had a copy of ADAMCalc w/dox, and a boxed, unopened extra blank digital tape, and an extra keyboard. I have not tested this yet, but it looks to be in perfect working order. This thing would even handle all of the original ColecoVision cartridges, so it should make a nice game box as well! ------------ After finding the time to test more of the stuff I have, I'll publish an updated want/trade list. (prolly after the holidays.) Well, that's my best finds for a little while... Happy Christmas & A Merry New Year! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Dec 21 15:32:31 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712212132.QAA16023@server1.netpath.net> Merch, I used to run one of these back in my teenage years. It was a pretty neat machine, except for a few downfalls: Little third party support, not a whole heck of alot of software to choose from and power supply was built-in to the printer. On the plus side: You could run CP/M on it, and yes, playing all those Colecovision games on it was a blast too. I think the normal retail price on the system was $599, but it quickly dropped to $499 the first year, and by the time it was headed out the stores you could snag one for $199. There's still a couple of ADAM user's groups out there, just have to search the web for them. At 02:57 PM 12/20/97, you wrote: >And for the crowning glory: A complete (hardware, software, and books) >Coleco ADAM computer! I don't recall hearing this machine mentioned on the >list as of yet (but I could be wrong), but it's an interesting machine! 80K >Ram, 4Mhz Z-80, built-in 10cps daisy-wheel printer, all of the original >dox, 2 keyboards, joysticks and a single 256K digital datassette drive. The >drive allowed random access to the information on the tape (tho it was >slower than floppy, for sure). It also had a copy of ADAMCalc w/dox, and a >boxed, unopened extra blank digital tape, and an extra keyboard. I have not >tested this yet, but it looks to be in perfect working order. > >This thing would even handle all of the original ColecoVision cartridges, >so it should make a nice game box as well! - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From gzozman at escape.ca Sun Dec 21 16:32:12 1997 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC References: <3.0.3.32.19971220145751.00c71220@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <349D98EC.74C3@escape.ca> I was also lucky enough to find an Adam complete in box a few months back. Mine, unfortunately, seems to have gotten "sunburned" (yellowed). The strange thing is, some of the keys on the keyboard are perfectly white, some are slightly yellowed, and some are very badly yellowed (spacebar especially). What is the condition of your keyboards? Roger Merchberger wrote: > And for the crowning glory: A complete (hardware, software, and books) > Coleco ADAM computer! I don't recall hearing this machine mentioned on the > list as of yet (but I could be wrong), but it's an interesting machine! 80K > Ram, 4Mhz Z-80, built-in 10cps daisy-wheel printer, all of the original > dox, 2 keyboards, joysticks and a single 256K digital datassette drive. The > drive allowed random access to the information on the tape (tho it was > slower than floppy, for sure). It also had a copy of ADAMCalc w/dox, and a > boxed, unopened extra blank digital tape, and an extra keyboard. I have not > tested this yet, but it looks to be in perfect working order. From william at ans.net Sun Dec 21 17:37:57 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <199712212132.QAA16023@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: > I used to run one of these back in my teenage years. It was a pretty neat > machine, except for a few downfalls: Little third party support, not a whole > heck of alot of software to choose from and power supply was built-in to the > printer. They also were _horribly_ unreliable. The DOA ratio was very high, and those that did survive rmoval from the shipping box often lasted a week or two before something died (I think the printer was often a source of problems). William Donzelli william@ans.net From manney at nwohio.com Sun Dec 21 17:47:38 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712212358.PAA16793@mx5.u.washington.edu> Your Adam is a rarity, if it works. I've got one (I gave away another last year). The interesting thing about Adams was the P/S was in the (serial daisy wheel (!!)) printer. manney@nwohio.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Dec 21 14:11:26 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <199712212358.PAA16793@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199712220107.UAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> > Your Adam is a rarity, if it works. I've got one (I gave away another last > year). > > The interesting thing about Adams was the P/S was in the (serial daisy > wheel (!!)) printer. > > manney@nwohio.com > Yes, but how they mange to keep those tape drives from failing all the time? Manney, what's up with your motherboard listing...I need bit more info are they usually generics and chipset types usually; VLSI, UMC etc is more than enough. Thanks! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sat Dec 20 17:33:50 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <33A61A43.4DC5@unix.aardvarkol.com> Message-ID: <199712220107.UAA28928@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! Have anyone noticed that Micropolis hung up their website and fallen off earth's face? This done, I have a question: I have a 340MB micropolis scsi, model 1684-7 that has problems, terminated properly BTW. I'm not sure which bad platters or sick logic board? Everything were set right. I used spinrite 3.x to test the surface for short time at level 6 after proper LLF and fdisked (lot of seeking but finally goes through), Again seekings during the formatting. I get 16K worth of bad sectors in 2 places but what about the first few tracks which I got the clue of appox 290mb formatted that I suspect due to bad sector reaasignments instead of correct appox 330mb. I hate to break it open, finding out it's good platters! So, I have your expert experience on this! If there is so cheap 400 to 500mb SCSI hd and with gusto in performance then I would know that bad hd I have can be tossed without concern. By the way, I have a ST11200N, giving me problems as well, spin sounds good to me but logic board could be at fault, I get errors in r/w and formatting. Any known problem histories are what I'm looking for. Thanks! *AND* Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! Jason D. From Zeus334 at aol.com Sun Dec 21 19:17:14 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Apples Message-ID: <4a9cdb61.349dbf9c@aol.com> First of all, I found a bunch more Apple things in my uncle's basement. Anyone want? Manuals, software, etc. Visicalc, Terrapin LOGO, and some other ones are complete packages. There are some commercial things from '84, '85. F.E. there is an Apple II magazine that is all reviews. This is a 1985 copy with a Lamborghini on the front, mostly about making the Apple II look like a Mac. Now, for the second part. I have a //c, and my uncle has a II with an 80col. card. Does anyone know if my //c can use a Z80 processor? I would like to try CP/M on it. If it can't, does anyone have a Z80 card for a II, so that I could run it on my uncle's machine? Also, any RAM cards, hard drives, modems, etc. for the II and //c would be nice. Thank you. From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Dec 21 21:08:57 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Apples Message-ID: >Now, for the second part. I have a //c, and my uncle has a II with an 80col. >card. Does anyone know if my //c can use a Z80 processor? I would like to try >CP/M on it. If it can't, does anyone have a Z80 card for a II, so that I could >run it on my uncle's machine? Also, any RAM cards, hard drives, modems, etc. >for the II and //c would be nice. Do you mean the //c or the //e? The //c cannot take cards at all, being the small flat white one. The //e can take all that you mentioned. I do not know if the //c can take a hard drive, but I imagine so, if it is external (of course). However, I have a source in Adelaide of //c 1 meg memory cards - difficult to install, as you need to remove the cpu and several other bits, plug the card into the cpu socket and put it all back togeather again, but it is also the only way I know of expanding a //c's memory. Adam. From mcneight at umich.edu Sun Dec 21 21:25:08 1997 From: mcneight at umich.edu (Neil McNeight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Apples In-Reply-To: <4a9cdb61.349dbf9c@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, Zeus334 wrote: > Now, for the second part. I have a //c, and my uncle has a II with an 80col. > card. Does anyone know if my //c can use a Z80 processor? I would like to try > CP/M on it. If it can't, does anyone have a Z80 card for a II, so that I could > run it on my uncle's machine? Also, any RAM cards, hard drives, modems, etc. > for the II and //c would be nice. IIRC, Applied Engineering used to make a combination memory, clock, and Z-80 expansion "card" for the //c. These came in different memory configurations and you could get them without the Z-80 or the clock. They required you to crack the //c open and use it the board to replace some of the chips on the motherboard. I have no idea where you would find one, but they are out there. I hope. -Neil ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- "There is more to life than increasing its speed." | Neil McNeight -Mahatma Gandhi | mcneight@umich.edu ---------------------------------------------------+------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Dec 21 21:58:07 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <199712220107.UAA28928@mail.cgocable.net> References: <33A61A43.4DC5@unix.aardvarkol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971221195807.0333bacc@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:33 PM 12/20/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hi! > >Have anyone noticed that Micropolis hung up their website and fallen >off earth's face? Sorry to say, there was an announcement about a month ago that the parent company of Micropolis, faced with continuing losses in the disk storage division decided to terminate all operations. Or, in a more direct form: Micropolis got it's plug pulled. Yet another of the older companies falls by the wayside. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Dec 21 22:31:04 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> I find that has alot to do with the amount of certain resins in the plastics. It's hard to keep a controlled mix on those injection molders sometimes... I speak from experience. :) At 04:32 PM 12/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >I was also lucky enough to find an Adam complete in box a few months >back. Mine, unfortunately, seems to have gotten "sunburned" >(yellowed). The strange thing is, some of the keys on the keyboard are >perfectly white, some are slightly yellowed, and some are very badly >yellowed (spacebar especially). What is the condition of your >keyboards? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Dec 21 22:31:06 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712220431.XAA30988@server1.netpath.net> Ran mine for two years, sold it to a friend, who ran it another two years before selling it to someone else... Who knows? Maybe one of you guys have it now. To make sure, check to see if the black nameplate on the top of the printer is glued back on... :) At 06:37 PM 12/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >They also were _horribly_ unreliable. The DOA ratio was very high, and >those that did survive rmoval from the shipping box often lasted a week or >two before something died (I think the printer was often a source of >problems). > - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Dec 21 18:02:38 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971221195807.0333bacc@agora.rdrop.com> References: <199712220107.UAA28928@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199712220458.XAA07788@mail.cgocable.net> > At 11:33 PM 12/20/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi! > > > >Have anyone noticed that Micropolis hung up their website and fallen > >off earth's face? > > Sorry to say, there was an announcement about a month ago that the parent > company of Micropolis, faced with continuing losses in the disk storage > division decided to terminate all operations. > > Or, in a more direct form: Micropolis got it's plug pulled. > > Yet another of the older companies falls by the wayside. > > -jim Thank you for this tidbit news! :) That is important because I get several questions or read others or helping out other guys with hd's... Who was the company who owned and (also pulled the plug) on this Micropolis? In other words, we have nothing to compare anything to this quality standards that was once Micropolis. Now, that is very unfortune news. Fujitsu is no longer on my favorite list. The definatine quality control of any remains with Quantum and Seagate's top end drives. HMO Thanks...Until anything changes, I will tell anyone who asks about buying hd to either pick Quantum for anything or Seagate (for medium to top end, low end are "Conner" design and QC and importantly compatiablity on master/slave relationship on these are still so so and bit slow). Their former low end before "Conners" replaced 'em were superb after years of debugging and had seagateshield which I consider this neat and good idea for short time! The design mark on these low end drives were left by long gone CDC and Imp---? and still see former designs in Cateeh and some few high end drives. If there is once in a while best deal on new remaining micropolis hds and expect no warrenty on them if the price is right. If I suspect rightly... WD is just ok, still too new to hd making since they're quit their card controller making exactly under 10 years ago. Superb but improvements would be good to speed up the ragged performances, oh well no more controllers from them now. :( ) Especially on newer series currently in production for least 2 years and still have problems with 3 platters drives usually. I hasten to add my tidbit about wdc, few years ago when I was using WD's drives (never brought any except for used buys) in service work and helping out friends. Noticed they can be commanded to seek harder when PIO modes is pushed over (set by on hard jumpered i/o VL cards) faster than their specs which made weird unhealthy noises and causes errors. Quickly put correct setting in order afterwards. Real fun to see WD 420mb hd read from out to in in seconds flat! That horrible noise and nearly metallic noise, ugh! Other than that, I have never seen like that in other hard drives of any makes besides WD. Maxtor, JTS and Samsung is what I prefer to avoid. Side comment: I wonder why several companies pulled out making 2.5" drives (Like to have more options myself.) and one or two jumping in making oddball 3.0" hard drives for portables recently? And finally, years ago, I was told by my best friend in computer service former Conners had problems with 2.5" drives, could anyone have a care to tell me more about this? Jason D. > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Dec 22 01:21:43 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? Message-ID: <01bd0eaa$411b9dc0$c063bcc1@photze> What about JTS (with their 500,000MTBF), the company that owns what's left of Atari? (Their drives are on the top of MY list for quality.) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: jpero@cgo.wave.ca To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Micropolis - moon or bust? > At 11:33 PM 12/20/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi! > > > >Have anyone noticed that Micropolis hung up their website and fallen > >off earth's face? > > Sorry to say, there was an announcement about a month ago that the parent > company of Micropolis, faced with continuing losses in the disk storage > division decided to terminate all operations. > > Or, in a more direct form: Micropolis got it's plug pulled. > > Yet another of the older companies falls by the wayside. > > -jim Thank you for this tidbit news! :) That is important because I get several questions or read others or helping out other guys with hd's... Who was the company who owned and (also pulled the plug) on this Micropolis? In other words, we have nothing to compare anything to this quality standards that was once Micropolis. Now, that is very unfortune news. Fujitsu is no longer on my favorite list. The definatine quality control of any remains with Quantum and Seagate's top end drives. HMO Thanks...Until anything changes, I will tell anyone who asks about buying hd to either pick Quantum for anything or Seagate (for medium to top end, low end are "Conner" design and QC and importantly compatiablity on master/slave relationship on these are still so so and bit slow). Their former low end before "Conners" replaced 'em were superb after years of debugging and had seagateshield which I consider this neat and good idea for short time! The design mark on these low end drives were left by long gone CDC and Imp---? and still see former designs in Cateeh and some few high end drives. If there is once in a while best deal on new remaining micropolis hds and expect no warrenty on them if the price is right. If I suspect rightly... WD is just ok, still too new to hd making since they're quit their card controller making exactly under 10 years ago. Superb but improvements would be good to speed up the ragged performances, oh well no more controllers from them now. :( ) Especially on newer series currently in production for least 2 years and still have problems with 3 platters drives usually. I hasten to add my tidbit about wdc, few years ago when I was using WD's drives (never brought any except for used buys) in service work and helping out friends. Noticed they can be commanded to seek harder when PIO modes is pushed over (set by on hard jumpered i/o VL cards) faster than their specs which made weird unhealthy noises and causes errors. Quickly put correct setting in order afterwards. Real fun to see WD 420mb hd read from out to in in seconds flat! That horrible noise and nearly metallic noise, ugh! Other than that, I have never seen like that in other hard drives of any makes besides WD. Maxtor, JTS and Samsung is what I prefer to avoid. Side comment: I wonder why several companies pulled out making 2.5" drives (Like to have more options myself.) and one or two jumping in making oddball 3.0" hard drives for portables recently? And finally, years ago, I was told by my best friend in computer service former Conners had problems with 2.5" drives, could anyone have a care to tell me more about this? Jason D. > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Dec 22 04:13:26 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <9711228828.AA882814779@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I would be grateful if someone on this list could help me. I have a somewhat old-fashioned colleague who still uses an HP-85B. This morning he came and asked me why the paper advance on the built in printer wasn't working, what was he doing wrong? He had borrowed an old HP-85 from another section (who had thrown it out, apparently - it had a red sticker saying "Equipment not to be used"), but this also wouldn't advance the paper, so he had concluded he must be getting something wrong. I tried a couple of times to no avail, so I took the lid off. (Why do they have to make the tape eject button so huge?). Not much poking around to discover that the toothed belt that drives the paper advance had perished and snapped. The rubber was mostly in dust all over the place; the strengthening threads were wrapped around the drive gear on the motor. The smaller toothed belt that drove the print head was also very ropy. So, we opened up the other 85. The same fault, with the remaining belt in worse condition. To conclude, then, does anyone know where to get replacement belts, or what the HP part numbers are, or any other useful information? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From desieh at southcom.com.au Mon Dec 22 05:24:58 1997 From: desieh at southcom.com.au (Desie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Check it out!!! Message-ID: <199712221124.WAA10307@hobart.southcom.com.au> From: Desie Hay Email: desieh@southcom.com.au museum_curator@hotmail.com Join the Revolution: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm let me know what you think? From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Dec 22 07:17:22 1997 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <01bd0edb$f05b8bc0$ce27a2ce@cliffgre> Eric Bal has a wealth of information on his web site (http://www.ebbsoft.com/) concerning HP series 80 computers. There are also links to suppliers who might be able to supply new belts. Good luck! Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 6:26 AM Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. > >Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.3] by LRBCG.COM with smtp > id AGBKABFL ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 06:26:02 -0500 >Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id CAA06210; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 02:18:26 -0800 >Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id CAA26702 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 02:18:24 -0800 >Received: from gatekeeper.powertech.co.uk (gatekeeper.powertech.co.uk [147.89.199.2]) > by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id CAA30562 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 02:18:16 -0800 >Received: by gatekeeper.powertech.co.uk; id KAA29534; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:16:15 GMT >Received: from unknown(147.89.27.82) by gatekeeper.powertech.co.uk via smap (V3.1.1) > id xma029530; Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:16:09 GMT >Received: from ccMail by compsci.powertech.co.uk (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) > id AA882814779; Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:13:26 GMT >Message-Id: <9711228828.AA882814779@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 97 10:13:26 GMT >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > >I would be grateful if someone on this list could help me. > >I have a somewhat old-fashioned colleague who still uses an HP-85B. >This morning he came and asked me why the paper advance on the built in >printer wasn't working, what was he doing wrong? > >He had borrowed an old HP-85 from another section (who had thrown it >out, apparently - it had a red sticker saying "Equipment not to be >used"), but this also wouldn't advance the paper, so he had concluded he >must be getting something wrong. > >I tried a couple of times to no avail, so I took the lid off. (Why do >they have to make the tape eject button so huge?). Not much poking >around to discover that the toothed belt that drives the paper advance >had perished and snapped. The rubber was mostly in dust all over the >place; the strengthening threads were wrapped around the drive gear on >the motor. The smaller toothed belt that drove the print head was also >very ropy. > >So, we opened up the other 85. The same fault, with the remaining belt >in worse condition. > >To conclude, then, does anyone know where to get replacement belts, or >what the HP part numbers are, or any other useful information? > >Philip. > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - > und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. > >Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 22 09:22:53 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there any way to repair or restore the color? Joe At 11:31 PM 12/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >I find that has alot to do with the amount of certain resins in the >plastics. It's hard to keep a controlled mix on those injection molders >sometimes... I speak from experience. :) > >At 04:32 PM 12/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >>I was also lucky enough to find an Adam complete in box a few months >>back. Mine, unfortunately, seems to have gotten "sunburned" >>(yellowed). The strange thing is, some of the keys on the keyboard are >>perfectly white, some are slightly yellowed, and some are very badly >>yellowed (spacebar especially). What is the condition of your >>keyboards? > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net > > > From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 22 07:36:25 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> References: <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971222083625.007d3320@netpath.net> At 09:22 AM 12/22/97, you wrote: >I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there >any way to repair or restore the color? Not that I know of. It's not exactly smoke residue that you can wipe off, it's in the plastic itself. You could try some paint, but it could get messy. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Dec 22 09:15:15 1997 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <01bd0eec$67e259c0$ce27a2ce@cliffgre> I have successfully restored old plastic to near its original condition by wiping it down with a "hot" solvent (I use acetone). Be advise that what you are actually doing is removing the very top layer of the plastic, thus exposing the original color. How much damage you do depends on the quality of the plastic, how "hot" the solvent, and how carefully you go about the work. A little trial and error on the underside will give some insight as to how well it will clean up. A little furniture polish or similiar at the end will generally gring back the luster of the plastic that has been deadened by the solvent wipe. Please, no flames about this. I do not recommend, nor do I personally use this procedure on any equipment that I deem too valuable to "clean up". I also have discolored HP equipment which will stay that way. OTOH, I see no reason not to clean up old Commodores, and the like, this way. As far as an ADAM goes, the owner will have to decide. I have a couple and put them in the same catagory as Commodores, i.e., clean-up candidates. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 9:40 AM Subject: Re: A computer not mentioned, IIRC >At 09:22 AM 12/22/97, you wrote: >>I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there >>any way to repair or restore the color? > >Not that I know of. It's not exactly smoke residue that you can wipe off, >it's in the plastic itself. You could try some paint, but it could get messy. > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net > > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Mon Dec 22 09:22:04 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen parts in the Bay Area. Message-ID: <34a08537.1320979287@mail.wizards.net> Someone from my former home town has a bunch of MicroVAXen stuff that's going to, he says, go to the scrapyard if no one expresses interest. Any of the Bay Area crew care to negotiate with this guy? Please reply directl to him. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.156.128.20!news1.best.com!newsfeed.slip.net!news.slip.net!not-for-mail From: Paul Leondis Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: microVAX blowout in Bay Area Date: 21 Dec 1997 20:46:53 GMT Organization: Slip.Net (http://www.slip.net) Lines: 45 Message-ID: <67jv7t$m61$2@owl.slip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-3.slip.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 970124] Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58516 Time to let go of some more treasured junk. I have enough miscellaneous parts to put together about 3 working microVAXEN, with many spare parts left over. The hoard includes but is not limited to: (3) BA23 cabinets, (2) w/ floor-standing tower setups (~5) CPUS (1) monochrome monitor for QVSS graphics system (1) color monitor for QDSS graphics system (history buffs! this is the system that X was developed on, (i think!)) (2) 1.2Gb SMD disks (lots) 80Mb RD53 MFM disks (3) TK50 tape drives lots of the typical controllers, memory, et cetera. various versions of Ultrix and VMS etc. ---------------------------------------------------------- Here's the deal: highest bid takes all the stuff. I'm not really expecting anyone to pay much for this stuff (but you can if you want:-)). If someone would trade me a 486 or better clone box (or even motherboard) that would be fine. Or, if you could come up with a fixed-scan PCI card, i'd keep just the color monitor. Or i'd trade the whole mess for a 17 or 19 inch multisync monitor, but i'm not gonna hold my breath on that deal. If after a week or two no one has expressed any interest at all, it will go to a scrap yard. ***NOTE: I like to collect old stuff myself, i've got tons of it and i sympathize with the obsession, but PLEASE, PLEASE do not send me mail from Nova Scotia or Britain saying could i ship the stuff to you it's a pity to see it trashed. I'll only deliver it local to the Berkeley California area, and then probably only if you can sweeten up the deal for me as outlined above. Thanks much, Paul Leondis leondis@slip.net 510-649-0993 phone Berkeley, CA -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Dec 22 09:28:34 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: Source for plotter pens In-Reply-To: <01bd0edb$f05b8bc0$ce27a2ce@cliffgre> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971222102834.007bceb0@netpath.net> I have an HP 7470a 2-pen plotter that needs some new pens. Anyone know of a cheap source for these pens? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Dec 22 10:29:24 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <199712220458.XAA07788@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Thank you for this tidbit news! :) That is important because I get > several questions or read others or helping out other guys with > hd's... > > Who was the company who owned and (also pulled the plug) on this > Micropolis? Singapore Technologies Pte Ltd of Singapore -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From engine at chac.org Mon Dec 22 11:04:49 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> References: <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> At 09:22 12/22/97, you wrote: >I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there >any way to repair or restore the color? No, there (currently) isn't. And the real bother isn't the discoloration, but the accompanying embrittlement -- I picked up a mustard-colored HP terminal once and had a piece of the case break off in my hand. A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the Smithsonian and they concurred with this. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 22 14:25:07 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Wanted: Source for plotter pens In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971222102834.007bceb0@netpath.net> References: <01bd0edb$f05b8bc0$ce27a2ce@cliffgre> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971222142507.43bf5872@intellistar.net> There is someone on Auction Web that regularly sells HP pens. He's usually running several auctions of them at the same time. He must have a bunch of them. They also show up in the surplus market around here (Florida) all the time. Check the surplus stores. In addition, there are a number of companies that makes pens that will fit the HPs or they make adapters to take their pens and fit into the HPs. Joe At 10:28 AM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >I have an HP 7470a 2-pen plotter that needs some new pens. Anyone know of a >cheap source for these pens? > > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 22 14:35:02 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971222143502.435f5676@intellistar.net> At 09:04 AM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:22 12/22/97, you wrote: >>I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there >>any way to repair or restore the color? > >No, there (currently) isn't. And the real bother isn't the discoloration, >but the accompanying embrittlement -- I picked up a mustard-colored HP >terminal once and had a piece of the case break off in my hand. > >A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an >article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was >no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration >was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the >Smithsonian and they concurred with this. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California Does applying Armor-All or any of the other plastic preservatives prevent the hardening? I've never tried it on the hard palstics, only vinyl. Joe > > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 22 09:04:50 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:56 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <01bd0eaa$411b9dc0$c063bcc1@photze> Message-ID: <199712222000.PAA11164@mail.cgocable.net> Hi Hotze! And, suited to anyone interested too. This does not apply at all. MTBF is stat based on random pick and project it and it's bandied about purely for marketing/relibility, *Hmmtph!*. A year is about 8760 hours long and my real experience tells me average especially for low end to barely medium end have average of 3 years at MOST due to bit of substandard production used to keep costs down. I have talked to someone and told me the major differences in controlling this reliability (means it to last years and years and years) was in all types of balancing, bearing runout, top quality bearings and has rubber seals on them, coated housings and very rigid design, spindle axle runout, spindle runout all made to VERY TIGHT specs that micropolis used. Also the design of heads arms and balance, flexing, damping and pulse train profile to make it "cushy" seeks yet rapid is very important to lifespan of the HD. I've opened all kinds of hds including several failed micropoils 13xx series. I understood why. Tandon/early 40mb WD's used fine regular ball bearings with bit looser specs, rack/p gearing, poor designs, all of them died in short order, I have not seen one that is still alive locally or at other few cities, same with miniscribe also to lesser degree except for their rack/p gearing the worst one. WD also did use that quality even with voice coil until recently (hopefully!), ditto to early st251 and st125 series as well as few early ST1144A/ST3144A series. DaeYoung indeed died young true to its name, ditto to Kalok and Kocera. I did open the few Quantums including ELS 85, this used a sealed bearing and manufacturing finish and all was pretty good as top end types. I was glad that Quantums learned their past mistakes quickly (My friend in computer business sold over 300 quantums of all kinds from low end to mid and none came back. There was one hd that dropped down flight of hard stairs that worked for short time...true story.) as well as Seagate if even bit slower. Maxtor is hit and miss and still have compatiabity problems, (One brought up appox under 40 850mb, MTBF was in that range Hotze indicated, lot and all of them died towards 1 year then failed in large bunches, none survived past a year and half and they're not that heavy use! Primarily in school use in their PC's teaching s/w not h/w!) Have a 1355 w/ date production of about 1987 and couple of CDC's and one Priam that had made when QC was high. All except for 1355 are appox 60-80mb full height catorgy. There are several failures recently related to installer errors: found several that used WD type seal that use special tape band to seal out seam that meets by both top shell and the chassis, ditto to several seagates using this This is no excuse that blamed on sharp cage's edges. All one is to be more careful and take and install it carefully without tearing those sealing band! Several quality hds failed but I was able to tell it were caused by installer error and imporper install. (Microscience did a research and found that 1" drop on hard surface was enough to subably damage it. I also chalk that up to installer skipping (I hear it!) during installing hd's using philips screws along with general bangs during handling.) General warning issued: Quantum fireball ST series notch cutouts to allow normal PC screws have ridden of, requiring stubby screws. But as a general rule, I apply this stubby screws appoach to all hd's. Well, for now, If anyone have anything more to point out, I can try to point out and see other side experiences. I as being curious tinker and a quest for failure analysis is valueable experience and more importantly, indictor of hd makers' commitment to contiuned QC on all levels. Jason D. > What about JTS (with their 500,000MTBF), the company that owns what's left > of Atari? (Their drives are on the top of MY list for quality.) > Tim D. Hotze nip! From system at minako.umtec.com Mon Dec 22 15:04:15 1997 From: system at minako.umtec.com (system@minako.umtec.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: I can see you! Message-ID: <9712222104.AA12631@ubani.umtec.com> My VAX is working! And it talks TCP/IP! DNS is out, but I can send mail (by telnetting to port 25 of the mailserver) Once my new boss shows up with root's password, I'll make DNS work. Then I can be found at minako.umtec.com. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 22 15:49:09 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: I can see you! Message-ID: <199712222149.AA27290@world.std.com> I saw this interesting, computer look-a-like box at a local thrift the other day, and decided to spring for the $2 and buy the thing. I have no idea what it is; hopefully someone in this group will recognize the description. First off the unit measures approximately 15" x 11" and is 4.5" high and is colored the typical office equipment beige. The front of the box is a darker brown with the name "ISAAC" written on the left hand side. Above the two A's in ISAAC is a graphic symbol of an apple. On the upper right hand side are the words "Cyborg model 91A". Across the bottom, left to right is a power, push button switch next to an light indicator; four small turnable knobs with indicator lights, marked 0, 1, 2, 3, respectively. Above the 0 knob is printed the word "Schmitt"; above the 1 & 2 knobs, "Reference"; above the 3 knob, "Adjust". On the right hand side are five push button switches labled "READ OFF"; Schmitt 0, 1; Reference 2, 3. Attached at the back by way of two flat connectors is a "91A Isaac Distribution Board". It has two rows of screw type connectors for attaching wire leads. They are marked off in banks with names such as "Binary In", "Binary Out", "A/D Inputs", "SCH In", and others. Nearly 100 separate connections possible. Across the bottom in small print is "Cyborg Corporation, 342 Western Ave., Boston, MA, U.S.A. 02135. Opening the box one finds a main system board with the words "91A ISSAC Main Board D91A - 8131 REV D 281-061" stenciled near the center. There are banks of what appear to be memory chips, as well as other various unidentifiable (to me at least) chips, several banks of dip switches, and a bank of eight slots, analogous to eight bit expansion slots, though somewhat smaller, about three inches long. There is nothing which resembles a CPU, nor is there any obvious way to connect power. I've done some internet searches using keywords such as Isaac, cyborg, etc. and have come up empty. Does anyone have any idea of what I bought with my two bucks? Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 22 13:39:12 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971222143502.435f5676@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <199712230034.TAA02285@mail.cgocable.net> > At 09:04 AM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > >At 09:22 12/22/97, you wrote: > >>I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there > >>any way to repair or restore the color? > > > >No, there (currently) isn't. And the real bother isn't the discoloration, > >but the accompanying embrittlement -- I picked up a mustard-colored HP > >terminal once and had a piece of the case break off in my hand. > > > >A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an > >article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was > >no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration > >was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the > >Smithsonian and they concurred with this. > > > >__________________________________________ > >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > >Computer History Association of California > > Does applying Armor-All or any of the other plastic preservatives > prevent the hardening? I've never tried it on the hard palstics, only vinyl. > > Joe > > Primary cause of aging in most plastics including vinyls is UV rays. Meaning, keep 'em out of direct sun! Jason D. > > > > > > > From manney at nwohio.com Mon Dec 22 18:23:20 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712230104.RAA02191@mx3.u.washington.edu> > Manney, what's up with your motherboard listing...I need bit more > info are they usually generics and chipset types usually; VLSI, UMC > etc is more than enough. Oh yeah...the motherboards. I keep forgetting to post the list. Probably after Christmas. Sorry -- been swamped. From manney at nwohio.com Mon Dec 22 18:40:18 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <199712230104.RAA12346@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg) that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you want. manney@nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. > Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 4:25 AM > > I would be grateful if someone on this list could help me. > > I have a somewhat old-fashioned colleague who still uses an HP-85B. > This morning he came and asked me why the paper advance on the built in > printer wasn't working, what was he doing wrong? > > He had borrowed an old HP-85 from another section (who had thrown it > out, apparently - it had a red sticker saying "Equipment not to be > used"), but this also wouldn't advance the paper, so he had concluded he > must be getting something wrong. > > I tried a couple of times to no avail, so I took the lid off. (Why do > they have to make the tape eject button so huge?). Not much poking > around to discover that the toothed belt that drives the paper advance > had perished and snapped. The rubber was mostly in dust all over the > place; the strengthening threads were wrapped around the drive gear on > the motor. The smaller toothed belt that drove the print head was also > very ropy. > > So, we opened up the other 85. The same fault, with the remaining belt > in worse condition. > > To conclude, then, does anyone know where to get replacement belts, or > what the HP part numbers are, or any other useful information? > > Philip. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - > und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. > > Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > From manney at nwohio.com Mon Dec 22 18:45:05 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot Message-ID: <199712230104.RAA09711@mxu2.u.washington.edu> I guess that's the loss of plasticizer ...the same thing you see in stiffening and embrittlement of vinyl. I've never see thermosets go bad, unless attacked by solvents (altho' I've seen epoxies go gummy.) ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Plastic rot > Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 11:19 AM > > At 09:22 12/22/97, you wrote: > >I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there > >any way to repair or restore the color? > > No, there (currently) isn't. And the real bother isn't the discoloration, > but the accompanying embrittlement -- I picked up a mustard-colored HP > terminal once and had a piece of the case break off in my hand. > > A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an > article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was > no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration > was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the > Smithsonian and they concurred with this. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 22 18:43:20 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? Message-ID: In a message dated 97-12-22 02:25:29 EST, you write: > What about JTS (with their 500,000MTBF), the company that owns what's left > of Atari? (Their drives are on the top of MY list for quality.) > Tim D. Hotze i bought two of those JTS 1G drives, and seem to be no worse or no better than any other drive out there. also has 3 year warranty. david From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 22 14:33:42 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC In-Reply-To: <199712230104.RAA02191@mx3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199712230129.UAA12429@mail.cgocable.net> > > Manney, what's up with your motherboard listing...I need bit more > > info are they usually generics and chipset types usually; VLSI, UMC > > etc is more than enough. > > Oh yeah...the motherboards. I keep forgetting to post the list. Probably > after Christmas. Sorry -- been swamped. > Thanks for letting us know! Yes, Christmas is on everyone's minds right now but more importantly, HAVE FUN AT IT especially at christmas day! So, Put that listing off and get prepared then relax with your friends and have Merry Christmas/ Happy New Year! Jason D. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 22 22:07:05 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. In-Reply-To: <199712230104.RAA12346@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971222220705.33ff0852@intellistar.net> I have access to a HP-85 repair manual. I can get the HP part number for the belts, but I doubt they're available anymore. I have a couple of -85s. I'll open them up and see what size belt they take. I probably won't be able to do either one until next week. Joe At 07:40 PM 12/22/97 -0500, you wrote: >Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg) >that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you >want. > >manney@nwohio.com > >---------- >> From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> To: Manney >> Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. >> Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 4:25 AM >> >> I would be grateful if someone on this list could help me. >> >> I have a somewhat old-fashioned colleague who still uses an HP-85B. >> This morning he came and asked me why the paper advance on the built in >> printer wasn't working, what was he doing wrong? >> >> He had borrowed an old HP-85 from another section (who had thrown it >> out, apparently - it had a red sticker saying "Equipment not to be >> used"), but this also wouldn't advance the paper, so he had concluded he >> must be getting something wrong. >> >> I tried a couple of times to no avail, so I took the lid off. (Why do >> they have to make the tape eject button so huge?). Not much poking >> around to discover that the toothed belt that drives the paper advance >> had perished and snapped. The rubber was mostly in dust all over the >> place; the strengthening threads were wrapped around the drive gear on >> the motor. The smaller toothed belt that drove the print head was also >> very ropy. >> >> So, we opened up the other 85. The same fault, with the remaining belt >> in worse condition. >> >> To conclude, then, does anyone know where to get replacement belts, or >> what the HP part numbers are, or any other useful information? >> >> Philip. >> >> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >> >> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - >> und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. >> >> Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk >> > > From dastar at wco.com Mon Dec 22 20:42:44 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: <199712222000.PAA11164@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > early ST1144A/ST3144A series. DaeYoung indeed died young true to its > name, ditto to Kalok and Kocera. I did open the few Quantums I had the worst experience ever with DaeYoung drives in 1993. I bought a system with a DaeYound hard drive in it and true to its name (and to re-use the obvious cliche) it died young. It was replaced with another DaeYoung drive which promptly bought the farm. They lasted less than a week a piece. I heard a rumor that DaeYoung drives were refurbished/repaired Conner hard drives. Is there any truth to this myth? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 22 16:28:44 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Micropolis - moon or bust? In-Reply-To: References: <199712222000.PAA11164@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199712230324.WAA04088@mail.cgocable.net> Sam wrote, > I had the worst experience ever with DaeYoung drives in 1993. I bought a > system with a DaeYound hard drive in it and true to its name (and to > re-use the obvious cliche) it died young. It was replaced with another > DaeYoung drive which promptly bought the farm. They lasted less than a > week a piece. > > I heard a rumor that DaeYoung drives were refurbished/repaired Conner hard > drives. Is there any truth to this myth? Oh no, that is not what DaeYoung does, DaeYoung is a company producing pieces of dirt including $10 floppy drives and they did make their own hds at one time. They're stepper type in 120mb range. Remember when you get them, you had to rip off that yellow tape off the stepper housing? Also, remember, Conner never ever made one using stepper motors, all are voice coil of various types and they're stictly Conner's and no else. Oh, that is about right time-frame where I first saw these and they're not never used and exhanged asap for 170MB ELS instead. (not me.) The usual failure mode was heads flinging off it's arms. I have not vertified this yet. Bad news is, DeaYoung still around making floppy drives through. (Yes, I have used them and seems not bad for proper applications: very light use in non-cirvital cases.) Last time I saw this brand name was couple of years or so back. If one are riding hard on floppy drives, suggest Panasonics, Toshiba or Citizen, no idea if they still make these quality drives. If anyone have a Sony drives, it's big time soldering job fixing all dry joints on those tiny-bitty SMD devices/chipsets. (Been there and done couple and returned them to regular use as bench work. For Toshibas types, I use them in my main pc and other one in portable.) One guy did ride the Panasonic real hard mowing through 100's of disks every weeks for a year before giving up due to wear on plastic sled against single rail, even electronics kept working. That was in old days few years ago! Jason D. > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details. Jason D. From foxnhare at goldrush.com Mon Dec 22 20:14:34 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam References: <199712220802.AAA12876@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <349F1E8B.27CD@goldrush.com> Back when I was getting older issues of Computer Shopper, I read about the Adam in a regular column, seems the users group support was pretty strong for the bugger, they had several conventions over the years (I noticed their web page not too long ago.) The Adam did have some expansion beyond the second datadrive you could get a disk drive controller to hook in an external drive. I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don't turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send out a pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about that...:/ ) The datadrives can use cassette tapes but they need to have slight (housing) modifications done and be pre-formatted (a tape duplicator may do the job, though I bet there are formatting utilities on the Internet. All I have for the Adam now is some xerox catalog of PD software, it was cheap and I like to know what programs were on the other machines, to see if there any gaps to be filled for my collection. :) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From william at ans.net Mon Dec 22 22:39:09 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <199712230034.TAA02285@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > Primary cause of aging in most plastics including vinyls is UV rays. > Meaning, keep 'em out of direct sun! Flourescent lights are also to blame. Standard museum practice is to put filters over the fixtures. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 22 17:53:18 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: References: <199712230034.TAA02285@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199712230448.XAA18917@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > Flourescent lights are also to blame. Standard museum practice is to put > filters over the fixtures. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net Oh, but in my case, really dislike fluorescents. Unnatural light, flickers with monitors and hard on my eye. So that it be halogen or indescent (sp?) lamps where allowed. Note the fluor not flour---. :) Jason D. From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Dec 22 22:16:47 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Christmas Wishes Message-ID: <00de01bd0f5e$c3b4f240$54987c0a@office1> Hello, all: I just wanted to take a moment {not ask a question, but} to wish everyone on the list a Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, or a fairly non-sectarian, politically-correct Happy Holidays. I also wanted to take the time to say thanks to everyone who has helped me this year to get my classic collecting off the ground. I've learned a lot about many aspects of the early era of computers; an era that began too early for me to think about (I was 8 when my PDP-11 was manufactured!) I've also come to appreciate their "simple elegance." Anyway, thanks go to all, especially to Sam, Tim, Paul, Allison, and Uncle Roger. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 22 23:35:25 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. In-Reply-To: <199712230104.RAA12346@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg) > that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you > want. > > manney@nwohio.com Another can be found by doing a search on "stock drive products" which will bring up several sites to query. - don > ---------- > > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > To: Manney > > Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. > > Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 4:25 AM > > > > I would be grateful if someone on this list could help me. > > > > I have a somewhat old-fashioned colleague who still uses an HP-85B. > > This morning he came and asked me why the paper advance on the built in > > printer wasn't working, what was he doing wrong? > > > > He had borrowed an old HP-85 from another section (who had thrown it > > out, apparently - it had a red sticker saying "Equipment not to be > > used"), but this also wouldn't advance the paper, so he had concluded he > > must be getting something wrong. > > > > I tried a couple of times to no avail, so I took the lid off. (Why do > > they have to make the tape eject button so huge?). Not much poking > > around to discover that the toothed belt that drives the paper advance > > had perished and snapped. The rubber was mostly in dust all over the > > place; the strengthening threads were wrapped around the drive gear on > > the motor. The smaller toothed belt that drove the print head was also > > very ropy. > > > > So, we opened up the other 85. The same fault, with the remaining belt > > in worse condition. > > > > To conclude, then, does anyone know where to get replacement belts, or > > what the HP part numbers are, or any other useful information? > > > > Philip. > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > > Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - > > und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. > > > > Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 22 23:46:17 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> <199712220431.XAA30983@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: >A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an >article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was >no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration >was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the >Smithsonian and they concurred with this. I guess that means those of us that are forced to keep sizable portions of our collections in a storage unit are actually lucky then, as it means we are keeping them in the correct light levels. Hmmm. On a simular note, I'm in the process of seeing about getting my Atari 800 up and running. It apparently had a piece of black plastic foam on the lid about the where the two cartridges go. Foam rubber is _EVIL_, it deteriorates, and it can really make a mess. I've seen it make some really sickening messes. A good example is it can pock the finish on a fine violin. This is the first time I think I've seen it used in a computer though. This sort of goes against principles when it comes to restoring things, or keeping them in their original form, but if you have systems with foam rubber in it, it would be best to remove it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From Russ9815A at aol.com Tue Dec 23 01:09:25 1997 From: Russ9815A at aol.com (Russ9815A) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <1dae8f4f.349f63a7@aol.com> from hp-85 service manual 00085-90154 (5/83) (I think this is the same for Hp-85 and 85B) Belt, paper advance p/n 1500-0572 Belt, print head p/n 1500-0529 HP still sold these through thier HP Direct phone order system a couple of years ago (800-227-8164) From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 23 04:39:23 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam Message-ID: <199712231039.FAA24968@server1.netpath.net> At 06:14 PM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > The Adam did have some expansion beyond the second datadrive you could >get a disk drive controller to hook in an external drive. You could even go with an IDE hard disk and 2400 baud modem if you could find them. >pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the >write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about >that...:/ ) That part is totally true. It was aggravating trying to remember to take the tapes out. I ended up ruining 1 or 2 that way. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Dec 23 04:49:50 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <9711238829.AA882903338@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Many thanks to all who responded with advice, part numbers etc. I have passed the part numbers on to my colleague - I shall try Don Maslin's suggestions for a web search next. Joe Rigdon (?) wrote: > I have access to a HP-85 repair manual. I can get the HP part number for > the belts, but I doubt they're available anymore. I have a couple of -85s. > I'll open them up and see what size belt they take. I probably won't be > able to do either one until next week. I think I have an 85 as well - in fact I know I do (somewhere) - I must look and see what state the belts are in, and if I can measure them... If not some measurements off yours would be very useful. PG Manney wrote: > Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg) > that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you > want. Yes please! Although ordering all the way from the US is a last resort... Philip. From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Dec 23 07:10:24 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <199712230034.TAA02285@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19971222143502.435f5676@intellistar.net> <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971223081024.00b132f8@mail.wincom.net> At 07:39 PM 12/22/97 +0000, you wrote: >> At 09:04 AM 12/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >At 09:22 12/22/97, you wrote: >> >>I have several old HP computers that have done the same thing. Is there >> >>any way to repair or restore the color? >> > >> >No, there (currently) isn't. And the real bother isn't the discoloration, >> >but the accompanying embrittlement -- I picked up a mustard-colored HP >> >terminal once and had a piece of the case break off in my hand. >> > >> >A bloke who was researching this at the Science Mus. in London wrote an >> >article for the ANALYTICAL ENGINE in which he basically said that there was >> >no reversing the effect, and the only way you could limit the deterioration >> >was to keep the artifact in near-total darkness. I also asked the >> >Smithsonian and they concurred with this. >> > >> >__________________________________________ >> >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org >> > http://www.chac.org/index.html >> >Computer History Association of California >> >> Does applying Armor-All or any of the other plastic preservatives >> prevent the hardening? I've never tried it on the hard palstics, only vinyl. >> >> Joe >> > >Primary cause of aging in most plastics including vinyls is UV rays. >Meaning, keep 'em out of direct sun! > >Jason D. >> > Should you only drive your Corvette on cloudy days? Seasons greetings Charlie Fox From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Dec 23 08:26:45 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <199712231507.JAA13977@onyx.southwind.net> > > Foam rubber is _EVIL_, it deteriorates, and it can really make a mess. > I've seen it make some really sickening messes. A good example is it can > pock the finish on a fine violin. This is the first time I think I've seen > it used in a computer though. Hmmm. I flunked freshman chemistry, so maybe I'm wrong, but isn't foam rubber made with formaldehyde? Jeff From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 23 09:43:32 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <199712231507.JAA13977@onyx.southwind.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971223104332.007d52c0@netpath.net> At 08:26 AM 12/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >Hmmm. I flunked freshman chemistry, so maybe I'm wrong, but isn't >foam rubber made with formaldehyde? I think formaldehyde is used in the process, and that some of it does come out in the finished foam, but there are supposedly strict rules about how much is allowed in the finished product. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 23 10:10:10 1997 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: ISAAC (was Mystery box -what is it?) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971223101010.00b8e960@pc> I saw one of those at the UW-Madison surplus sale a few weeks ago, at a similar price, but passed it up. It looked like an A/D box of some kind, I too saw the apple logo and wondered if it wasn't for the Apple II era - Isaac Newton, get it? I definitely saw A/D converter chips in there, maybe they were on the expansion cards. No CPU necessary, it could be driven by TTL logic if it was just spitting data. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From engine at chac.org Tue Dec 23 12:50:26 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19971222090449.00f2de60@pop.batnet.com> <3.0.1.16.19971222092253.39675cba@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971223105026.00e546d0@pop.batnet.com> At 21:46 12/22/97 -0800, Zane wrote: >This sort of goes against principles when it comes to restoring things, or >keeping them in their original form, but if you have systems with foam >rubber in it, it would be best to remove it. Oh, you bet. When we got the SDS 930 (14 racks,) the doors of all the modules were lined with black isocyanate insulating foam, and it had begun to liquefy. We got that outa there in no time. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Dec 23 14:56:03 1997 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: I can see you! In-Reply-To: <199712222149.AA27290@world.std.com> Message-ID: <13318454576.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> It's a MicroVAX 3100, VAX/VMS 5.5, and CMUIP ver. 6.6-5. Want an account? I may not set it up right, I'm not good at VMS yet... but it will work... ------- From fhensley at vnet.net Tue Dec 23 15:55:13 1997 From: fhensley at vnet.net (Fred Hensley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Help with a Grid... Message-ID: <01bd0fed$726920c0$c17052a6@Sklingon.vnet.net> How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660???? Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971223/d135b0cc/attachment.html From cgregory at lrbcg.com Tue Dec 23 16:39:30 1997 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Olivetti M10 Message-ID: <01bd0ff3$a2508f20$c027a2ce@cliffgre> I'm looking at picking up an Olivetti M10, but I don't know too much about this one. I'm told that it has neither a floppy nor a hard drive. Can someone enlighten me, or at least point me in right direction for more information? Thanks, Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 23 16:29:06 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: New additions Message-ID: <128b59bb.34a03b36@aol.com> I picked up two macs today for $15 total. the first one is a mac 512 and the second is a mac+ 1meg. both are missing their mouses but they do work just fine. I also got two external 800k floppies. One is called mirror magnum 800, but doesnt recognize a working floppy. the second one is called an apple external 800 drive, but i've never seen one quite like this. it's a bit smaller than the apple 3.5 drive, and doesnt have the stripes molded in and does not have an eject button either, only the hole to push a paper clip wire in. can this drive be used on a //c or similar? current plans for these macs will be to take the best parts of two 512k macs and make one good one with the remainder going to my brother for a macquarium project. I already own a platinum colour se and this one i just got is a 1meg beige colour se. is there any significant differences between these two se models? david From BigSigh1 at aol.com Tue Dec 23 17:48:30 1997 From: BigSigh1 at aol.com (BigSigh1) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: printer paper Message-ID: I need okimate printer paper. Thanks. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 23 18:04:22 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Olivetti M10 In-Reply-To: <01bd0ff3$a2508f20$c027a2ce@cliffgre> from "Cliff Gregory" at Dec 23, 97 05:39:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971224/6ca7891f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 23 18:07:32 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 22, 97 09:46:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 725 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971224/ddbc3dab/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 23 19:40:03 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: A computer not mentioned, IIRC Message-ID: <199712240150.RAA07745@mxu2.u.washington.edu> > Thanks for letting us know! Yes, Christmas is on everyone's minds > right now but more importantly, HAVE FUN AT IT especially at > christmas day! Sorta like the little kid who got the "Our Father" prayer slightly wrong ..."Forgive us our Christmasses..." he prayed. Christmas is hectic for me, 'cause I run a store. manney From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 23 20:22:54 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Help with a Grid... Message-ID: <199712240229.SAA10949@mx5.u.washington.edu> > How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660???? > > Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch. When all else fails I use an old (Packard Bell!) 286 setup program that seems to work most of the time. Won't work on nonstandard HDD tables, though. manney From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 23 20:10:06 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam Message-ID: <199712240229.SAA13666@mx4.u.washington.edu> > I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don't > turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send out a > pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the > write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about > that...:/ ) I remember my heathkit (H-89) had a similar warning about starting up with a disk in the drive. From dastar at wco.com Tue Dec 23 20:42:17 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Olivetti M10 In-Reply-To: <01bd0ff3$a2508f20$c027a2ce@cliffgre> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Cliff Gregory wrote: > I'm looking at picking up an Olivetti M10, but I don't know too much about > this one. I'm told that it has neither a floppy nor a hard drive. Can > someone enlighten me, or at least point me in right direction for more > information? Cliff, This is almost a clone of the Tandy 100 portable. It has some nice features such as a tilt LCD display, but other than cosmetically, its basically a Tandy 100. Offer $15-$20 for it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 23 20:47:53 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Help with a Grid... Message-ID: <199712240247.VAA13581@server1.netpath.net> At 04:55 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660???? > >Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch. Hold in the "F" key while booting. You'll then be able to boot off a disk in drive A. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From manney at nwohio.com Tue Dec 23 20:41:52 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: HP-85B Printer Repairs. Message-ID: <199712240248.SAA13823@mx3.u.washington.edu> > PG Manney wrote: > > > Small belts are available -- there's a company in NJ (Winifred M. Berg) > > that specializes in small stuff. I can dig up the address for you if you > > want. > > Yes please! Although ordering all the way from the US is a last resort... > > Philip. http://www.wmberg.com/ or 516-599-5010 (800-232-BERG in the US) manney@nwohio.com From william at ans.net Tue Dec 23 21:37:51 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Some DEC machines use a similar foam either to hold the boards in place > (the PDP8/e does this) or as a fan filter. Needless to say, when the foam > disintegrates, it then puts more muck into the machine than it ever kept > out. This is bad news on a demountable hard disk :-(. Many larger machines use the stuff to kill some of the noise. IBMs generally are loaded with it. But in the future, the Sun E150 may top list in terms of gooiness. > Most DEC collectors that I know remove this foam as soon as they get the > machines. I always do. Sure, it's not original, but at least the machine > will keep running. Some of the stuff is rather stable - 30 years old and only a bit discolored. At least the stuff is very easy to replace and restore. I suppose the thing to do is find this stuff and get a bunch. William Donzelli william@ans.net From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Dec 23 22:20:17 1997 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: New additions In-Reply-To: <128b59bb.34a03b36@aol.com> Message-ID: >the second one is called an apple external 800 drive, but i've never >seen one quite like this. it's a bit smaller than the apple 3.5 drive, and >doesnt have the stripes molded in and does not have an eject button either, >only the hole to push a paper clip wire in. can this drive be used on a //c or >similar? As far as I know the 800k Apple drive you have described can only be used on a Mac Plus or better. Or a modified 512k. I really doubt that it will work with a //c. I could be wrong... >I already own a platinum colour se and this one i just >got is a 1meg beige colour se. is there any significant differences between >these two se models? Not much other than case color... Of course there are small differences in the SE's, such as floppy drive size(anyone know where to get the ROMs and SWIM to upgrade an SE with a SuperDrive?) or which logic board you have(only difference I know of is one needs a resistor cut to add RAM, the other has a jumper). You might want to jump over to the Classic Macs email list and ask these questions of the real pros in old Macs... I don't remember subscribe info or anything, but it shouldn't be too hard to find. From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Dec 23 23:08:14 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: New additions Message-ID: <199712240508.AAA20704@server1.netpath.net> At 08:20 PM 12/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >As far as I know the 800k Apple drive you have described can only be used >on a Mac Plus or better. Or a modified 512k. I really doubt that it will >work with a //c. I could be wrong... I had my Apple 800k running on my 512k, which started out as a 128k. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From adam at merlin.net.au Wed Dec 24 02:33:55 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Commodore Info Message-ID: Someone near Sydney just offered me a pile of stuff, mostly old pc/xt bits. But in amongst it all was a Commodore 8296-d and a Sharp 1700. I imagine the Sharp is one of the plamtop models they produced, rather than the more laptop style Sharp PC-5000 - is this the case? And the Commodore I guess to be an 8286 with a typing mistake, and thus merely a MS-DOS clone. COuld someone please confirm this for me? Thanks heaps, Adam. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Dec 24 03:22:35 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Commodore Info Message-ID: <9711248829.AA882984524@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Adam wrote: > Someone near Sydney just offered me a pile of stuff, mostly old pc/xt bits. > But in amongst it all was a Commodore 8296-d and a Sharp 1700. I imagine > the Sharp is one of the plamtop models they produced, rather than the more > laptop style Sharp PC-5000 - is this the case? And the Commodore I guess > to be an 8286 with a typing mistake, and thus merely a MS-DOS clone. COuld > someone please confirm this for me? No, 8296 is a very late PET. I have three of them, but one lacks a keyboard. Good old PET 8000 series architecture, although I'm told some have a later version of BASIC. 128k of memory, but I think you can only get at 96k + screen. The 8296-D was the built in disk drive model. Twin floppies, DSQD, on the GPIB internally. Uses a later version of the Commodore DOS software than I have docs for :-( (Commodore disk drives all had a CPU in the drive unit that ran a system they called DOS and communicated with the system unit over the GPIB or the later VIC/64 interface) My advice to you: GRAB IT!!!!!!! Philip. PS I once found an 8296D in the skip at work. I asked to buy it and was told officially no, not safe, PSU is playing up but unofficially I could grab a few parts if need be. I did and upgraded my (then only) 8296 to the D spec. It cost me _more_ to do the upgrade than it would have to repair the original machine. I was not pleased... From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Dec 24 03:48:00 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Olivetti M10 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971224014437.4b3715b6@ricochet.net> At 05:39 PM 12/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >I'm looking at picking up an Olivetti M10, but I don't know too much about >this one. I'm told that it has neither a floppy nor a hard drive. Can >someone enlighten me, or at least point me in right direction for more >information? If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) the M10 is one of the family that includes the RS model 100, NEC 8201a, a Kyocera (I forget the model #, but K made 'em all) and one or two others. No floppy, what's a hard drive?, but eminently useful and probably one of the rarer machines in the family. iirc, it had a pop-up screen, which none of the others had. Actually, it's an evil piece of garbage, and you should send it to me right away. Don't hesitate, your life could be at stake! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From cgregory at lrbcg.com Wed Dec 24 07:08:13 1997 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Olivetti M10 Message-ID: <01bd106c$fd9a4460$bd27a2ce@cliffgre> Thanks to everyone who educated me on the Olivetti M10. This list is great! Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 24 08:02:06 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam Message-ID: <199712241402.AA15878@world.std.com> <> I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don <> turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send ou <> pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to th <> write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about <> that...:/ ) < Don't DARE plug that drive into a //c!!! I did it once (not with my own ones :) and it fried the //c, leaving the drive intact (I think). Original: >seen one quite like this. it's a bit smaller than the apple 3.5 drive, and >doesnt have the stripes molded in and does not have an eject button either, >only the hole to push a paper clip wire in. can this drive be used on a //c or >similar? As far as I know the 800k Apple drive you have described can only be used on a Mac Plus or better. Or a modified 512k. I really doubt that it will work with a //c. I could be wrong... From manney at nwohio.com Wed Dec 24 12:27:06 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam Message-ID: <199712241902.LAA15242@mxu1.u.washington.edu> > > This is generally true for most everything but 3.5" floppy disks, > TU58 dectape and harddisks(there are exceptions). How 'bout CD-ROM's? From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 24 15:22:39 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: NEC APC Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971224162239.0068a37c@mail.wincom.net> We just received the donation of an NEC APC, (built in monitor, two 8" floppy drives, MSDOS 2.11) for our museum collection. It works, but naturally no documentation. Can anyone give me information on the pin-outs for the com port and printer port? (Both look like Centronics connectors) Best wishes to everyone, and thanks for all the help you have provided over the year. Charlie Fox From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 24 16:55:18 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: NEC APC In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971224162239.0068a37c@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Dec 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > We just received the donation of an NEC APC, (built in monitor, two 8" > floppy drives, MSDOS 2.11) for our museum collection. It works, but > naturally no documentation. Can anyone give me information on the pin-outs > for the com port and printer port? (Both look like Centronics connectors) > Best wishes to everyone, and thanks for all the help you have provided > over the year. Charlie, I have the information on that and will dig it out in the next couple days if no one beats me to it. Jog my memory if I seem to forget. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 24 18:18:21 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:57 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam In-Reply-To: <199712240229.SAA13666@mx4.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Dec 23, 97 09:10:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 917 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971225/eb6b0b17/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 24 18:22:43 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Dec 23, 97 10:37:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971225/1d898228/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Dec 24 18:54:55 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help with a Grid... References: <199712240229.SAA10949@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34A1AEDF.A5EDD64A@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > > > How do you get in the cmos on a Grid 1660???? > > > > Some body brought it to me and said it could not find A drive and when I > looked it had 5 drives A.C.D.F.H. And when I got rid of H drive it took > the Operating files with it. now I got disk error and I want to get into > cmos to see if I can format the drive and start from scratch. > > When all else fails I use an old (Packard Bell!) 286 setup program that > seems to work most of the time. Won't work on nonstandard HDD tables, > though. Did a quick AltaVista search on ' +grid & +1660 & +cmos & +setup ' and the first thing that came up was . They say they have a generic setup that mostly works, plus give pointers to Tandy and AST sites (since Tandy bought GriD, then sold _All_ of their computer interests to AST several years back -- as a former stockholder I understood, then again as an employee-stockholder I understood why they switched over to nothing but PC compatible in 86-87 despite having better products of their own, but that's what caused me to move on after five+ years in tech support, since the load got too big when every idiot trying to integrate his Tandy 1000 with a no-name printer and a bootleg graphic game called for help. The old products may not have been as promiscuous as the current stuff, but it worked well. I like the Tandy 2000 for its keyboard and displays, but I hated the Tandy 1200 (as did _every_ Tandy employee who worked with them -- the Board of Directors never had to), and I never liked the Tandy 1000 line or its descendents. To me, Tandy peaked with the 6000, the 100, the 4p and the Color Computer 3. And if you visit your local store, all you'll see is IBM crap. And hey, I _like_ a lot of IBM where I work -- I sysadmin RS/6000 AIX boxen that are almost as good as my Linux systems at home. I'm babbling. Should have rested a second day with this flu, but needed to make sure my systems at work were set up for the holiday weekend. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From gram at cnct.com Wed Dec 24 19:16:51 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam References: <199712240229.SAA13666@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34A1B403.6CBB64BE@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > > > I recall a warning about the datadrives or the Adam in general: don't > > turn on the Adam with a datatape in the drive, the drive will send out a > > pulse that may damage data stored on the part of the tape next to the > > write head (some said up to a few feet away, I don't know about > > that...:/ ) > > I remember my heathkit (H-89) had a similar warning about starting up with > a disk in the drive. I remember _many_ disks being destroyed in old 5.25 drives attached to TRS-80s, Apples, Commodores and other machines. All single-sided. And the single-sided 8" drives were even more destructive -- a disk in an old TRS-80 Model II would die at least 50% of the time if it was inserted at power-on, especially in the external expansion box. I remember damned near pissing my pants when I first saw the docs for a PC software package read "insert the diskette and turn on the computer". Since I know well that a PC drive could eat its children before 360k became standard. I don't know enough about head technology, though I assume that the heads in double-sided drives need to be much more delicate to avoid destroying each others' work, where single heads (especially when densities were low) could just blast away and let the domains hit by the field lines lie where they fell. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 24 20:37:21 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam Message-ID: <199712250237.AA01630@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34A1D6B6.89F5A47F@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > [Foam] > > Some of the stuff is rather stable - 30 years old and only a bit > > discolored. At least the stuff is very easy to replace and restore. I > > Well, it's easy in theory, but it's hard work, and a right pain to do. > Personally I'd rather be tracing logic faults (my crazy mental recreation > - almost as bad as crossword puzzles, I guess :-)). Electrolube 'Label > Remover' does help a bit. _Especially_ if you inhale a bit of the stuff. 8-) > > suppose the thing to do is find this stuff and get a bunch. > > What I'm doing is removing it and leaving the panels bare - although > there's always enough residue to indicate that said panel was once > covered with this foam. The extra noise doesn't bother me. If at some I _hate_ that residue. It makes what I work hardest to clean look absolutely filthy. But I leave it there, because further attempts to clean causes functional damage, not merely aesthetic. (Old Tandy gear, actually. Hard disks mostly.) Most of my neighbors get shielded cable. The rest can imagine that the RFI is an act of God. They think that TV is an act of God. > time in the future I want a 'looks like it just left the factory' machine > I can buy some suitable foam and stick in on. Ah, it might be illegal. After all, manufacture of plastic (or rubber) foam affects the ozone layer and causes global warming. So say some. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 25 16:50:55 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <34A1D6B6.89F5A47F@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Dec 24, 97 10:44:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971225/2fdaec9e/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Thu Dec 25 22:08:05 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: PB 140/170 adapter Message-ID: <000c01bd11b4$378b3f60$54987c0a@office1> Hello, all: I got a Kodak digital camera for Christmas, and I was suprised at the quality of the pictures. But, I anticipate lousy battery life from repeated downloading, picture taking, etc. The docs say that I can use a Mac Powerbook 140/170 AC adapter to power it. Does anyone have a spare that they can sell me? TIA! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 25 22:57:48 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: PB 140/170 adapter In-Reply-To: <000c01bd11b4$378b3f60$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: >Hello, all: > > I got a Kodak digital camera for Christmas, and I was suprised at the >quality of the pictures. But, I anticipate lousy battery life from repeated >downloading, picture taking, etc. > > The docs say that I can use a Mac Powerbook 140/170 AC adapter to power >it. Does anyone have a spare that they can sell me? Try http://www.macmall.com they're a good source for stuff like this, of course it'll be new if they've got it. A better source might be http://www.sirius.com/~exupery/forsale.html the guy that has this page deals in used PowerBooks. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Dec 25 23:39:33 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help on Altos 586 system... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971225213933.007212c8@agora.rdrop.com> Greetings; Decided to fire up yet another previously unchecked box in the collection, and after the normal preliminaries cranked it up, and found that it boots to Xenix v3.0b. And of course, with the usual problems... No docs, and no passwords... Tried some of the more common openings, with no success so far... And I've watched the boot process, and don't see any opportunity to abort to 'single user' mode... Suggestions??? I can abort the boot all together, and end up at the following screen: ALTOS COMPUTER SYSTEMS - 586 Monitor Version V1.1 Press any key to interrupt boot Enter [1] to boot from Hard Disk Enter [2] to boot from Floppy Disk Enter [3] to enter Monitor Booting from the hard disk takes me back to Xenix, I have no floppies so that one is out for the moment, and going to the 'monitor' gets me this: Enter option: 3 < A, B, D, G, I, K, L, M, O, R, S, X > Anyone have any insights as to what these commands are? (don't want to stumble onto a HD init by accident) When Xenix boots, it indicates that the machine has 840k of RAM, but says little else. I'm not even sure right at the moment what processor is in it. (not dug that far under the panels) Anyone familiar with this particular machine, and/or this variant of Xenix that might be able to provide some insights? Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Dec 26 02:41:26 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: VS2000 RESCUE NEEDED! Message-ID: <34a56d51.197917981@mail.wizards.net> OK, for those of you that have been waiting for an opportunity to get a VS2000, here it is -- if you happen to be near the New York area. ;-) Please reply TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR, not to me. I'm just forwarding what I found on Usenet. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.156.128.20!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!best.com_SPAMBLOCK!edel From: Nathan Keir Edel Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: VS2000: Free in NYC Date: 26 Dec 1997 05:19:19 GMT Organization: Forte Systems, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <67veon$sek$1@nntp2.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: 883113559 29140 edel 206.86.0.12 X-Notice: Remove SPAMBLOCK from return address to reply via email. x-no-archive: yes X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970424; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE] Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:58593 Vaxstation 2000 Configuration questionable. Booted when I put it into storage. Running some version of VMS. HD/RAM? Some cables. Probably not all of them. Keyboard if I can find it. Big (19") greyscale monitor too. No manuals. Also an AT&T 3b2/310, if anyone wants it. Both 100% FREE in Queens (near #7 line) NYC, if you pick them up. Not interested in shipping them or cash offers. If nobody picks them up by 1/31, they go in the trash. First come, first served. If interested, email edel@best.com BEFORE 1/2 or Nathan.K.Edel@dartmouth.edu after 1/3 -- Nathan Keir Edel "In this world of delusion, #6: Which side are you on? edel@best.com never turn your back on a #2: That would be telling. friend..." -- Iron Maiden -- The Prisoner -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From Jjcn.Garrett at btinternet.com Thu Dec 25 18:27:03 1997 From: Jjcn.Garrett at btinternet.com (Judy Garrett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Kaypro10 manuals needed Message-ID: Hi I am the owner of a Kaypro 10 computer kindly left to me by a deceased friend, unfortunately I have no manual which restricts my use of the computer. Can you help me with this predicament please? Please reply to: e-mail JJCN.Garrett@btinternet.com tel: 0181 667 1349 (England) With details of cost and postage charges etc. From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Dec 26 09:44:16 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: IBM PS/2 Model L40 SX Battery Message-ID: <01bd1215$1f934400$a762bcc1@hotze> Hello.... I've found a PS/2 with a 386SX 20 processor, etc. but it has no battery. The person that has it says that "he doesn't have a battery, and damage is expected." does anyone have a spare that they could trade or sell? About how long does a battery last, how much time, and what kind of damage is likely? (I'm thinking LCD-screen) Thanks, Tim D. Hotze From gzozman at escape.ca Fri Dec 26 12:26:31 1997 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help Identifying IBEX Computer References: Message-ID: <34A3F6D6.3497@escape.ca> I've run across an old beast of a machine about which I know nothing. Can anyone identify this puppy? The front of the monitor case has the name "IBEX" on it. Tags on the back of the unit show a model number "7301" and the name "Logic Systems International Inc.". It was made in Japan. It consists of 3 modules, as follows: Hard/Floppy Drive Unit: This is the largest unit, and houses one 8" floppy drive and a hard drive with 8" platters. It also has a large white ON/OFF switch which powers up the entire system. The case is about 24" wide, 11" tall, and 24" deep. Keyboard Unit: Has a standard keyboard, but the case is much larger because it also holds the main logic board for the system. Measures 2" tall, 18" wide, 16" deep. Monitor Unit: Holds a monitor which measures about 12" diagonally. The front of the screen has a flat, smoked cover over it. A series of what seem to be non-standard cables join the modules together. There are two cables which connect to the monitor box; one from the keyboard, and one from the drive unit. When the unit powers up, the screen says "V4.3" in the top left corner. If I try to type anything, the screen fills instantly with garbage, so I assume there is something wrong. I don't have any documentation or software for this beast, so I'm not sure if I need a floppy to boot the system. There is no drive light for the FDD, so I don't know if it is trying to read a floppy when it boots. Any help on this one is much appreciated!! Happy Holidays to all. Grant Zozman gzozman@escape.ca From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 26 13:55:35 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help Identifying IBEX Computer In-Reply-To: <34A3F6D6.3497@escape.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Grant Zozman wrote: > I've run across an old beast of a machine about which I know nothing. > Can anyone identify this puppy? The front of the monitor case has the > name "IBEX" on it. Tags on the back of the unit show a model number > "7301" and the name "Logic Systems International Inc.". It was made in > Japan. > > It consists of 3 modules, as follows: > > Hard/Floppy Drive Unit: This is the largest unit, and houses one 8" > floppy drive and a hard drive with 8" platters. It also has a large > white ON/OFF switch which powers up the entire system. The case is > about 24" wide, 11" tall, and 24" deep. > > Keyboard Unit: Has a standard keyboard, but the case is much larger > because it also holds the main logic board for the system. Measures 2" > tall, 18" wide, 16" deep. > > Monitor Unit: Holds a monitor which measures about 12" diagonally. The > front of the screen has a flat, smoked cover over it. > > A series of what seem to be non-standard cables join the modules > together. There are two cables which connect to the monitor box; one > from the keyboard, and one from the drive unit. > > When the unit powers up, the screen says "V4.3" in the top left corner. > If I try to type anything, the screen fills instantly with garbage, so I > assume there is something wrong. > > I don't have any documentation or software for this beast, so I'm not > sure if I need a floppy to boot the system. There is no drive light for > the FDD, so I don't know if it is trying to read a floppy when it boots. > > Any help on this one is much appreciated!! Happy Holidays to all. > > Grant Zozman > gzozman@escape.ca Grant, the system floppy is a DSDD 8" CP/M-2.2. E-mail me if you decide you need one. Sorry, I cannot tell you any more about the machine. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 26 14:58:35 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Kaypro II available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If anyone is looking for a Kaypro II you might contact: Peter Rombold 232 A Cypress St. Chula Vista CA 91910 619/585-8831 I understand that he also has a daisy wheel printer. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 26 16:55:58 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: NEC APC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Dec 1997, Don Maslin wrote: Hello Charlie, > Charlie, I have the information on that and will dig it out in the next > couple days if no one beats me to it. Jog my memory if I seem to forget. Here it is. Hope this answers your questions. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj -------------- next part -------------- Table 2-6 Parallel Printer Connection Pin Assignments Pin # Pin # Pin # Signal at A at B at C Remarks ---------------------------------------------------------------- DATA-STB 1 3 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------- DATA1 2 6 16 DATA2 3 7 4 DATA3 4 8 17 DATA4 5 9 5 DATA5 6 10 18 DATA6 7 11 6 DATA7 8 12 19 DATA8 9 13 7 ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACK 10 2 14 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Input Busy 11 22 9 ---------------------------------------------------------------- PE 12 29 25 --------------------------------------------------------------- SELECT 13 4 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Signal Grnd 14 NC NC --------------------------------------------------------------- NC 15 NC NC --------------------------------------------------------------- Signal Grnd 16 NC NC ---------------------------------------------------------------- Chassis Grnd 17 NC NC ---------------------------------------------------------------- +5VDC 18 27 24 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Grnd Pin 1 19 NC NC Grnd Pin 2 20 20 8 Grnd Pin 3 21 21 21 Grnd Pin 4 22 5 3 Grnd Pin 5 23 24 10 Grnd Pin 6 24 26 11 Grnd Pin 7 25 28 12 Grnd Pin 8 26 30 13 Grnd Pin 9 27 31 26 Grnd Pin 10 28 NC Grnd Pin 11 29 NC Grnd Pin 12 30 NC --------------------------------------------------------------- Input Prime 31 23 22 --------------------------------------------------------------- Fault 32 25 23 --------------------------------------------------------------- Signal Grnd 33 NC NC --------------------------------------------------------------- NC 34 NC NC --------------------------------------------------------------- NC 35 18 --------------------------------------------------------------- Input Busy 36 NC NC --------------------------------------------------------------- 19 20 No Signal --------------------------------------------------------------- 1 1 No Signal --------------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: 'A' is at the Printer connector 'B' is at the back panel connector - marked PTR 'C' is at the processor board header Table 2-11 Keyboard Interface Lines PIN SIGNAL --------------------------------- 1 Not used 2 Not used 3 Keyboard Data 1 4 Keyboard Data 2 5 Keyboard Data 3 6 Keyboard Data 4 7 Keyboard Data 5 8 Keyboard Data 6 9 Keyboard Data 7 10 Keyboard Data 8 11 Signal Ground 12 Data Strobe 13 Signal Ground 14 Not used 15 Not used 16 Switch Strobe 17 Not used 18 Not used 19 Debug 20 Signal Ground 21 Signal Ground 22 Signal Ground 23 +5VDC 24 +5VDC 25 Not used 26 Not used Table 3-20 Serial I/O Connectors Pin Assignments Pin # Pin # Pin # Signal at A at B at C Remarks ----------------------------------------------------------------- Frame Ground 1 1 1 SD 2 2 3 Send Data RD 3 3 5 Receive Data RS 4 4 7 Request to Send CS 5 5 9 Clear to Send DR 5 5 11 Data Set Ready Signal Ground 7 7 13 CD 8 8 15 --------------------------------------------------- 9 9 17 No Signal 10 10 19 11 11 21 12 12 23 13 13 25 14 19 2 --------------------------------------------------- ST2 15 20 4 Transmit Clock (TxC) --------------------------------------------------- 16 21 6 --------------------------------------------------- RT 17 22 8 Receive Clock --------------------------------------------------- 18 23 10 19 24 12 No Signal --------------------------------------------------- ER 20 25 14 Data Terminal Ready --------------------------------------------------- 21 26 16 22 27 18 No Signal 23 28 20 --------------------------------------------------- ST1 24 29 22 Transmit Clock (RxC) --------------------------------------------------- 25 30 24 No Signal --------------------------------------------------- NOTE: 'A' is at the modem connector 'B' is at the back panel connector - marked COMM 'C' is at the processor board header  From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Dec 27 02:38:11 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Dec 23, 97 10:37:51 pm Message-ID: <9712270838.AA12623@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1371 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971227/a5fd0e6b/attachment.ksh From handyman at sprintmail.com Fri Dec 26 22:47:09 1997 From: handyman at sprintmail.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Video Brain COmputer Message-ID: <34A4884D.1EBD@sprintmail.com> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf wrote: > > >Sam Ismail wrote: > > One of the > >> systems he mentioned he had was a Video Brain. Apparently this is a > >> video game system. I *think* I vaguely remember hearing about this > >> system. At any rate I'm curious about it and was wondering if anybody > >> knew what it was as we both had too much tequila for him to describe and > >> for me to comprehend it. > >Video brain was made by a firm called UMTECH, used a microprocessor > >called F8 and had 1 to 4K of RAM memory. It was possible to store the > >data on cassette and, you are right there, it had many plug-in > >cartridges with games on them. It was sold mainly through departments > >stores and specialty electronic stores (at least that is what "A > >Collector's guide to personal computers" book has to say about it) > >I remeber reading a little blurb about Video Brain in the April 1981 Creative Computing. Essentially, by that time the company had gone out of business. . . Hello, I have in my posession a Video Brain home Computer, It is in mint condition, however I cannot find anything on the internet about it. I see listings on some of the collectors web sites but no pictires or even anyone that has one in their posession. Can you help me find information on this apperently rare home computer. Thank you for your input.. Phil Clayton From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Dec 27 12:04:36 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Vax 3400 available in UK Message-ID: <34ab42f6.318206266@mail.wizards.net> Any of our UK folks interested in this? If so, please contact the original author directly. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!falstaf.demon.co.uk!robin From: Robin Birch Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: For Sale uVAX 3400 Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:17:14 +0000 Organization: Ruff'n Ready Distribution: world Message-ID: <4Op+yKAqWNp0Ew2c@falstaf.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaf.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: falstaf.demon.co.uk [158.152.152.109] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.03b Lines: 16 Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp11:2921 Dear All, I offered this a few weeks ago but didn't get any replies. Appologies if someone did answer but it didn't get through :-(. I have a uVAX 3400 that works ok but I don't want any more. If anybody is interested ten get back to me and we'll haggle, no reasonable offer refused. Buyer collects it'll go very cheap to a good home. The system is in GLoucestershire outside stow on the wold. REgards Robin Robin Birch robin@falstaf.demon.co.uk M1ASU Old computers and radios always welcome -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From Zeus334 at aol.com Sat Dec 27 12:11:11 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Old thing Message-ID: <1bb80f0f.34a544d8@aol.com> Many months ago, I saw an old tower at a thrift store for $20. I did not take it, and now wonder what I missed. It was a tall tower case, kind of like a PS/2. I think it was a WYSE. It had two LED displays, one said something like 8, the other ".2". There was a 51/4" floppy drive, and I could see an MFM -like hard drive through the half-open case, mounted at the very top. It worked, but all it had on the grey sheet metal back was a power connector, four 15-pin terminal ports and 4 ethernet- like connectors. What did I miss? From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Dec 27 12:21:04 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: AT&T systems Message-ID: <34b046e5.319213715@mail.wizards.net> Got another one. This fellow's selling AT&T systems. Contact him directly if interested. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: YVBZ58A@prodigy.com (Eric Timm) Newsgroups: misc.industry.electronics.marketplace Subject: AT&T 3B2 computers Date: 27 Dec 1997 11:08:45 GMT Organization: Prodigy Services Company 1-800-PRODIGY Lines: 4 Distribution: world Message-ID: <682njt$1qak$2@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: innugap3-int.news.prodigy.com X-Post-Time: 27 Dec 1997 11:08:45 GMT X-Newsreader: Version 1.2 Xref: Supernews70 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:10180 Anyone interested in AT&T 3B2 computers? I have a model 310 and a model 400 for sale. Monitors, keyboards, and cables are included. E-mail me at YVBZ58A@prodigy.com for more info. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From wbrco at valuenet.net Sat Dec 27 13:27:26 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Apollo Domain 3500's - For Sale/Trade Message-ID: <01BD12CB.34CB4640@nt_ws1.wurmborn.com> Gang - I've saved 2 Apollo 3500's from the dumpster at work. Unfortunately, I know nothing about Domain OS, nor was I able to save the books, software or tapes. I did however save the complete units, including the 14" color monitors, keyboards and 1 of the mice. The one unit I've opened up is configured with 24M ram, and the 340MB ESDI drive. Since there seems to be no good port of any other operating system, I'm looking for a good home for them. I take best offers for the next couple of weeks with one caveat - you must come to St. Louis to pick them up. I am not in a good position to freight ship these units, and don't have the time to build a suitable crate/pallet. Please reply by email, since I don't get to read the digest as quick as I would like. Thanks! | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | http://web.cybercon.com/wurmborn | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 27 13:51:48 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <9712270838.AA12623@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Dec 27, 97 00:38:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1443 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971227/895a9e31/attachment.ksh From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Dec 26 17:51:51 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (adam@merlin.net.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Kaypros Message-ID: <199712272352.KAA02028@arthur.merlin.net.au> I just had the most wonderful bit of luck, and have been offered the Kaypro II, 4 and 10 in the one hit, for almost nothing. Anyway, the person offering them was curious (and now so am I) regarding the existance of the Kaypro 16. Was there indeed such a system, and how sis it differ from the others? And did Kaypro make anything else? Thanks heaps, Adam. From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Dec 26 18:21:45 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (adam@merlin.net.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: PC/XT stuff in Sydney Message-ID: <199712280022.KAA04121@arthur.merlin.net.au> I have just been offered a pile of PC/Xt stuff, along with a couple of things I wanted. If anyone is interested in old cards, MFM hard drives and the like, and are in Sydney, I could pass on the email address of the person making the offer - he wants a bit of money for it all, but not too much - I just already have more XTs than I want. :) Adam. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 27 22:37:05 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: KayPro 16 was:Re: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <199712272352.KAA02028@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971227223705.3bbfd1dc@intellistar.net> Adam, I have a KayPro service manual dated September 85 and it list the model 16. The model 16 has a detachable IBM compatable keyboard, one 360 K disk drive and a 10 Meg hard drive. It also has a built in 9 inch monochrome green monitor with a 25 x 80 display. It has an Intel 8088 CPU running at 4.77MHz. It uses a 8237A DMA, an 8253-5 timer, an 8255-5 peripheral interface, an 8259A interrupt controller, an 8284A clock and an 8288 bus controller. The standard system has a motherboard and three cards and one open expansion slot. The mother board is socketed for 512K of memory but only 256 K is installed from the factory. The motherboard contains the circuitry that decodes RGB video into gray levels of monochrome. Also on the motherboard is a WD1002 disk controller board. One of the cards is the processor card. It contains the keyboard interface, the clock, the timer, the bus controller, the DMA, the programmable peripheral interface and the programmable interrupt controller. It also contains a socket for a math coprocessor. Another of the other cards is the floppy-RAM-I/O card. It contains a DB-25S connector for the parallel port and either a DB-9S or DB-9P connector for the serial port. The third card is a color graphics card for use with an external RGB or monochrome monitor. It has a DB-9S connector for the RGB monitor and a connector for a monochrome monitor. Both use standard cables. Joe At 10:21 AM 12/27/97 +1030, you wrote: >I just had the most wonderful bit of luck, and have been offered the >Kaypro II, 4 and 10 in the one hit, for almost nothing. Anyway, the >person offering them was curious (and now so am I) regarding the >existance of the Kaypro 16. Was there indeed such a system, and how sis >it differ from the others? And did Kaypro make anything else? > >Thanks heaps, > >Adam. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 27 22:43:39 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: KayPro models Was: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <199712272352.KAA02028@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971227224339.4877dc3e@intellistar.net> At 10:21 AM 12/27/97 +1030, you wrote: > And did Kaypro make anything else? Besides the model 16, they made a model 16/2, a model 1, model 2, model 2/84 and 2X, model 4, model 4/84, model 4X, model 10, model 10 with clock and MODEM, a ROBIE, model 12X, a model 286i and a model called the "New 2". Joe >I just had the most wonderful bit of luck, and have been offered the >Kaypro II, 4 and 10 in the one hit, for almost nothing. Anyway, the >person offering them was curious (and now so am I) regarding the >existance of the Kaypro 16. Was there indeed such a system, and how sis >it differ from the others? And did Kaypro make anything else? > >Thanks heaps, > >Adam. > From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Dec 28 05:09:29 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Java Turing Machine Message-ID: <01bd1381$11facd00$LocalHost@hotze> Hello. Someone wanted a the Vitrual Turing machine earlier. I've got both .zip (for Win) and .tar (for Unix) formats, 87K a piece. Please contact me if you're still interested. Sorry that it took so long, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971228/ad1a5ec7/attachment.html From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Dec 28 21:26:08 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: KayPro models Was: Kaypros In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971227224339.4877dc3e@intellistar.net> from Joe at "Dec 27, 97 10:43:39 pm" Message-ID: <199712290326.WAA07737@tigger.exit109.com> > At 10:21 AM 12/27/97 +1030, you wrote: > > And did Kaypro make anything else? > > Besides the model 16, they made a model 16/2, a model 1, model 2, model > 2/84 and 2X, model 4, model 4/84, model 4X, model 10, model 10 with clock > and MODEM, a ROBIE, model 12X, a model 286i and a model called the "New 2". And the 2000 and 200+ laptops. The latter of which I am *still* trying to find a power supply pinout for. <<>> From gram at cnct.com Sun Dec 28 21:39:36 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot References: Message-ID: <34A71B78.619C09EA@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > - almost as bad as crossword puzzles, I guess :-)). Electrolube 'Label > > > Remover' does help a bit. > > > > _Especially_ if you inhale a bit of the stuff. 8-) > > :-). Actually, Label Remover is not really suitable for that use (it > smells a little like orange oil, and is not a common organic solvent > AFAIK). Now, head cleaner is another matter :-) Ah, not being familiar with the specific product, I thought it might contain some of the more amusing volatiles. > > I _hate_ that residue. It makes what I work hardest to clean look > > absolutely filthy. But I leave it there, because further attempts to > > clean causes functional damage, not merely aesthetic. (Old Tandy gear, > > What damage? As far as I know, the only solvent that _might_ get the rest of the crap off would be a liberal application of acetone, in quantities that would drip into the plastic and rubber mechanical parts. That was the case with couple of printers. On the other hand, acetone is the best thing in the world for making old typewriter (and impact printer, specifically the Radio Shack Daisy Wheel II) platens look like new -- a trick I was taught by one of my RSCC managers when it was occasionally necessary to restore the hymen of a floor demo prior to delivery to a customer. > > > actually. Hard disks mostly.) I haven't tried using acetone on a hard drive yet, because I don't want the risk of disolving the seals. > > Most of my neighbors get shielded cable. The rest can imagine that the > > RFI is an act of God. They think that TV is an act of God. > Eh? The foam I'm talking about is a good insulator, and would have no > effect AFAIK on RFI. Actually, for all some classic computers should > radiate like mad (and I tend to run them with covers removed, etc), I've > never had any problems from people complaining. I'd thought I'd seen a reference earlier in the thread about some of this foam having a metallic component. I'll have to scan back, my mind may have wandered during composition (as it is now). > > > time in the future I want a 'looks like it just left the factory' machine > > > I can buy some suitable foam and stick in on. > > > > Ah, it might be illegal. After all, manufacture of plastic (or rubber) > > foam affects the ozone layer and causes global warming. So say some. > > Argh!!! Oh well, my machines will have to do without this foam, then. If they outlaw it, I'll have to start up a little illicit manufactory. I hold no truck with the "global warming" hysteria. -- Ward Griffiths Q: How many "environmentalists" does it take to replace a lightbulb? A: None. Darkness is part of nature. From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Dec 28 22:14:39 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot Message-ID: <199712290414.XAA30641@server1.netpath.net> I've used wd40 as a solvent for adhesive residue on both case plastic with so-so results, and on the clear plastic LCD protective cover on a TRS-80 model 100 with great results. Didn't scratch the plastic one bit. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From groberts at mitre.org Mon Dec 29 05:17:51 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Old Zenith luggable Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971229061751.0071fc9c@mail90> i have recently been given an old Zenith laptop model ZFL-181-92. batteries discharged or dead. no power supply. i would like information if anyone can help me on what type of power supply to use. the label on the bottom of the systems says: DC 12 V, Plug-in power supply Model 150-272. i'm hoping someone out there has one of these puppies and can tell me the power rating and polarity spec's (the power jack is not marked as to which pole is positive). i haven't cracked the case open yet but am interested in more information on this system if anyone can educate me. i think this is an old 8088-based box? it has no hard drive but does have dual ("pop up") 3-1/2" drives (someone has written "720" on them so they're presumably 720 k drives). i wonder if this will run a generic DOS? any help appreciated. tx. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Dec 29 08:24:41 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help on Altos 586 system... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971225213933.007212c8@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <199712291431.IAA27884@onyx.southwind.net> If its of any help at all, I remember Altos default ROOT password was 'sotla'. It has probly been changed, but you never know . . . Jeff > > Decided to fire up yet another previously unchecked box in the collection, > and after the normal preliminaries cranked it up, and found that it boots > to Xenix v3.0b. And of course, with the usual problems... No docs, and no > passwords... > > Tried some of the more common openings, with no success so far... And I've > watched the boot process, and don't see any opportunity to abort to 'single > user' mode... Suggestions??? > > I can abort the boot all together, and end up at the following screen: > > > ALTOS COMPUTER SYSTEMS - 586 > Monitor Version V1.1 > Press any key to interrupt boot > > Enter [1] to boot from Hard Disk > Enter [2] to boot from Floppy Disk > Enter [3] to enter Monitor > > > Booting from the hard disk takes me back to Xenix, I have no floppies so > that one is out for the moment, and going to the 'monitor' gets me this: > > Enter option: 3 > < A, B, D, G, I, K, L, M, O, R, S, X > > > > Anyone have any insights as to what these commands are? (don't want to > stumble onto a HD init by accident) > > When Xenix boots, it indicates that the machine has 840k of RAM, but says > little else. I'm not even sure right at the moment what processor is in > it. (not dug that far under the panels) > > Anyone familiar with this particular machine, and/or this variant of Xenix > that might be able to provide some insights? Any thoughts would be > appreciated! > > Thanks! > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Dec 29 10:09:37 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Help on Altos 586 system... In-Reply-To: <199712291431.IAA27884@onyx.southwind.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971225213933.007212c8@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <199712291634.KAA07045@onyx.southwind.net> Stuff I forgot to mention . . . . > > > > When Xenix boots, it indicates that the machine has 840k of RAM, but says > > little else. I'm not even sure right at the moment what processor is in > > it. (not dug that far under the panels) It uses an 8086 (10Mc). Xenix ran almost exclusively on 8x86 CPU's, although according to the _Microcomputer Buyers Guide_ (1983): "Micro$oft is enhancing UNIX for commercial applications and porting it to the popular 16-bit microprocessors such as the Intel 8086, Zilog Z-8000, Motorola 68000 and Digital PDP-11." Those were the days, eh, Bill G.? ;-) 840K was Max memory for this machine, although you could add more (MFM) disk drives via an expansion cabinet. > > > > Anyone familiar with this particular machine, and/or this variant of Xenix > > that might be able to provide some insights? Any thoughts would be > > appreciated! IIRC, this Sub-Species of UNIX was of Edition-7 vintage. Once again, from the _Guide_: "The Xenix Operating System is a 16-bit adaptation of Bell Labortories' Version 7 UNIX system." So this thing is pre-System III. IIRC, It had some Berkley-ish characteristics. The entry in the _Guide_ goes on to say that this system will also run CP/M-86, MP/M-86, OASIS-16, and PICK as well as M$-DOS. The 586-10 had a sticker price of $7990 (in 1983). > > > > Thanks! > > -jim > > > > --- > > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > > > > > > From red at bears.org Mon Dec 29 11:34:43 1997 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: <199712290414.XAA30641@server1.netpath.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Dec 1997, John Higginbotham wrote: > I've used wd40 as a solvent for adhesive residue on both case plastic with > so-so results, and on the clear plastic LCD protective cover on a TRS-80 > model 100 with great results. Didn't scratch the plastic one bit. I've found that generally, with a little work, adhesive residue may be removed with a bit of scotch tape---or, ideally, the removed piece of adhesive that left the residue behind in the first place. Stick it down, and lift it straight back off (don't peel) repeatedly. This is effective and solvent-free. I use this method to remove all manner of adhesive residue, including those contrary CD packaging stickers. Sometimes it takes a few pieces of tape, too, to get it all off. But it works. (: ok -r -- r e d @ b e a r s . o r g ============================= [ urs longa | vita brevis ] From "rdseaman at flash.net" at flash.net Mon Dec 29 13:08:33 1997 From: "rdseaman at flash.net" at flash.net (roual seaman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: computer components Message-ID: <199712291909.NAA08527@endeavor.flash.net> I'm looking for something on-line that provides a description of PC computer components. Any suggestions? Please e-mail to: rdseaman@flash.net Thanks From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Dec 29 08:39:10 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Old Zenith luggable In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971229061751.0071fc9c@mail90> Message-ID: <199712291935.OAA12153@mail.cgocable.net> > i have recently been given an old Zenith laptop model ZFL-181-92. batteries > discharged or dead. no power supply. i would like information if anyone > can help me on what type of power supply to use. the label on the bottom > of the systems says: DC 12 V, Plug-in power supply Model 150-272. > > i'm hoping someone out there has one of these puppies and can tell me the > power rating and polarity spec's (the power jack is not marked as to which > pole is positive). i haven't cracked the case open yet but am interested > in more information on this system if anyone can educate me. i think this > is an old 8088-based box? it has no hard drive but does have dual ("pop > up") 3-1/2" drives (someone has written "720" on them so they're presumably > 720 k drives). i wonder if this will run a generic DOS? > > any help appreciated. tx. > > - glenn Glenn, This is very trival to find between 12v and 13v sources at least 1 to 2amp DC. Polarity, dunno because I had mine stored but others could answer this. Do favor for us, disconnect that bad battery! Someone left the bad battery connected too long, ruining a spot near power switch where the charging regulator got too hot in mine. When rebuiding a pack, either sub-C or C (C is better and you can remove pair of spacers found in battery cavity of your luggeable. (it's stuck on with double sided tape, they're there to prevent the sub-C from rattling around too much.) Cut open the old pack, save all and silver thingy, that's resettable thermal cutout switch, wires and connector, taking care to keep the original circuits intact, dispose the old cells at recycler. Sub-C is appox 2/3 shorter in length of a C cell size. The mAh rating determines how long you can keep things going before the host machine dies from weak working battery. Sub-C is about 2K mAh max if you can hunt for it or C about 2.8K to 3K mAh. Rechargeables are always expensive except for sealed gel lead-acid batteries (loads of mAh but pealty in weight/bulk!) Jason D. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Dec 29 08:50:33 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Toronto Mini F/S Message-ID: <199712291959.OAA29435@smtp.interlog.com> Saw this local ad in Tor FS comp. No room myself but the price is right. Don't contact me, email the owner. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com -------------- next part -------------- From harwood at Fri Dec 26 15:16:57 1997 From: harwood at (Michael Harwood) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: FS: IBM RT minicomputer Message-ID: FOR SALE: ** RSVP by January 8 ** Two IBM RT 115 minicomputers. I still have to ascertain the amount of RAM in them, but here are the rest of the specifications of what there is forsale: 2 RT keyboards 2 monochrome console monitors 2 hard drives (probably SCSI?) (probably 300 - 500 meg each) 1 1/4 inch cartridge tape drive 2 controller cards for the tape drive 2 5 1/4 floppy drives 1 16 port concentrator box (by Dickens Data Systems) 1 card and cable for the above concentrator box Note that these computers are both assembled and still working. I do NOT have the manuals (although I MAY be able to get some). I also do NOT have the operating system disks. One computer is running a version of AIX unix (for RTs) - probably one of the lastest ones since the company was very diligent about OS upgrades. The other computer is running a version of the PICK operating system called PICK BLUE. I am asking $50 for both of them (or best offer if more than one person replies by January 8). I don't suggest asking me to ship them anywhere as they weigh a ton! with huge 800 W power supplies. If I don't get any offers by January 8, I will contact some computer museums; if they don't want them, then they are going in the garbage. -- Michael Harwood. harwood@quark.physics.uwo.ca http://quark.physics.uwo.ca/~harwood (Physics Teacher, Ingersoll District Collegiate Institute, Ingersoll, Ontario) --Message-Boundary-1390-- From Zeus334 at aol.com Mon Dec 29 13:48:04 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Macintosh Message-ID: I need two Mac things: A Mac Classic logic board, and a Mac Portable modem, ROM, RAM, or anything else for that suitcase of a mac. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Dec 29 17:38:54 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: computer components In-Reply-To: <199712291909.NAA08527@endeavor.flash.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971229173854.006c75d4@pop3.concentric.net> What are you looking for ? I have books and manuals for many items. At 01:08 PM 12/29/97 -0600, you wrote: >I'm looking for something on-line that provides a description of PC >computer components. Any suggestions? > >Please e-mail to: rdseaman@flash.net >Thanks > > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Mon Dec 29 18:42:33 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Manuals Available, Chicago area Message-ID: <34ab4337.514939654@mail.wizards.net> Found this on Usenet. Those interested, please contact the original message author directly. -=-=- -=-=- Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Path: Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!news.decus.org!eisner!kaplow_r From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow) Subject: FREE to a good home: RSX and PDP-11 documentation Reply-To: robert_kaplow@hccompare.com Lines: 18 Organization: DECUServe Message-ID: <1997Dec29.132403.1@eisner> X-Trace: news.decus.org 883419907 29876 KAPLOW_R [192.67.173.2] X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eisner.decus.org Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:24:03 GMT Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9073 While cleaning up piles of boxes over the holidays, I've unearthed a bunch of PDP-11 documentation. Most of it is RSX stuff from the 80s, but I've also got two copies of the 1978 RSX-11M System Logic Manual. Some of the materials are from various training classes I took during my career with Digital. Also uncovered are assorted DECUS publications from the 80s. As a certified pack rat, I hate to throw this stuff away, so I'm offering it to anyone who will pay the postage from the Chicago area to wherever in the world you are. If you're interested in any or all of this stash, send me e-mail before January 9th. I'll see what I can do about inventorying the 10 cubic feet of assorted binders between now and then. Bob Kaplow 16 bit Paleontologist - emeritus -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Dec 29 18:55:58 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! Message-ID: <000401bd14bd$df2a2ea0$54987c0a@office1> Well, the electrician came today to upgrade my service to 200A, and laughed when I told him that the thing that prompted me was that I got this "large, old computer." He couldn't believe that a "residential" computer draws 30A startup and 15A running. The sound of it amazes me, too. Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal: 000000 170002 170002 165360 $ I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The "165360" is also on the front panel display. Any clues would be appreciated. I'd like to get this thing running by the time I get back to work on 1/5. Happy New Year to all! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From Zeus334 at aol.com Mon Dec 29 19:35:25 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! Message-ID: <71d8d08f.34a84fe0@aol.com> It seems the PDP-11 is the favorite machine on this group... I have never seen one, so could someone tell me a few things. a)Year b)original price for average package c)does it have an OS? What is it like? d)what can the thing do? In a message dated 97-12-29 20:03:49 EST, you write: << Well, the electrician came today to upgrade my service to 200A, and laughed when I told him that the thing that prompted me was that I got this "large, old computer." He couldn't believe that a "residential" computer draws 30A startup and 15A running. The sound of it amazes me, too. Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal: 000000 170002 170002 165360 $ I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The "165360" is also on the front panel display. Any clues would be appreciated. I'd like to get this thing running by the time I get back to work on 1/5. Happy New Year to all! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ >> From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 29 20:02:06 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <000401bd14bd$df2a2ea0$54987c0a@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Dec 29, 97 07:55:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1675 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971230/da1c1f1b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 29 20:12:07 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <71d8d08f.34a84fe0@aol.com> from "Zeus334" at Dec 29, 97 08:35:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971230/001bec12/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 29 21:41:26 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:58 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! Message-ID: <199712300341.AA17679@world.std.com> Message-ID: I am back at the old homestead for the holidays, and decided I need to sort thru the mounds of crap in my parents basement that needs to get pitched, moved to New York, or given/sold off. I uncovered lots of things I either forgot about or never new I had, like DOS (not Bill's) for the Interdata model 4 machines, and a 150 pound chunk of Univac core. Anyway, I found 3 new looking game port extenders for the Apple 2, by a company called Scooter. These look like a 2 foot bit of ribbon cable, with a 16 pin DIP header on one end and a 16 pin ZIF DIP socket on the other, with a bit of foam tape. Apparently, if you decide your Apple joystick cord is 2 feet too short, this thing comes to the rescue. Does anyone need one of these things? If so, I have three (one per, if I get multiple requests, please!) available for postage. Of course, trade for equally stupid non-micro junk is just as welcome! Please reply tomorrow, as I leave for New York on the first, in the morning. Also in the news, I may have found a big "B". More as the story develops. William Donzelli william@ans.net From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Mon Dec 29 22:10:26 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Project Message-ID: <34a873ee.527410756@mail.wizards.net> For those of you who would like an account on an honest-to-God PDP10'ish system... -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.eerie.fr!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news From: xkladmin@paulallen.com (XKLeTen Admin) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec Subject: XKL (PDP10) Site Announcement Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:55:47 GMT Organization: XKLeTen Lines: 51 Message-ID: <34a85fd3.3481181@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: xkladmin@paulallen.com NNTP-Posting-Host: stl-wa16-15.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Dec 29 6:56:58 PM PST 1997 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp8:1899 alt.sys.pdp10:3974 alt.sys.pdp11:2924 comp.sys.dec:58635 Dear Fellow PDP-10 Enthusiast, Over the past 25 years, it's been challenging for all of us to find a place to run our PDP-10 software. At the same time, there hasn't been a library of PDP-10 software that is well taken care of, and made easily available to the interested public. I would like to offer a solution. I have invested in a TOAD-1 machine running the PDP-10 architecture, and would like to make its capabilities available. The TOAD is manufactured by XKL Systems Corporation, and is a completely new hardware implementation of Digital's 36-bit PDP-10 architecture, not an emulator running on another platform. This machine I've purchased will be a repository for PDP10 public domain software, including the collection of the DEC-10 and DEC-20 DECUS tapes. By making access accounts available to an initial limited group, we hope to learn of any issue areas with our new program. Through an account you can set up with us, you can access this library, and run programs you may not have seen for years. You may also submit your own programs for storage, and for use by fellow advocates. These programs may be submitted via FTP, email or 9-track tapes. Once you have an account established you could access XKLeTen via telnet. Anyone may download the libraries of software through anonymous FTP from XKLeTen.paulallen.com. The machine, named XKLeTen, is configured as follows: TOAD-1, 36-bit computing system TOPS-20 system software 32 MW memory board 4 mm DDS tape drive 9 track tape drive 8 gigabyte disk I encourage any of you who are interested to contact us to set up an account. To be considered for an account, please submit the following information to XKLadmin@paulallen.com: Full name Email address Interest or purpose in this project (short summary) Desired account name If you have any questions about XKLeTen, or how to execute the anonymous FTP, please contact us via the same email address. Bill Gates and I used PDP10s to develop much of Microsoft's early software. I hope many of you take advantage of this new opportunity to keep alive some of your old memories. Paul G. Allen -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From dastar at wco.com Tue Dec 30 01:15:49 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Plastic rot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > I've found that generally, with a little work, adhesive residue may be > removed with a bit of scotch tape---or, ideally, the removed piece of > adhesive that left the residue behind in the first place. > > Stick it down, and lift it straight back off (don't peel) repeatedly. This > is effective and solvent-free. I use this method to remove all manner of > adhesive residue, including those contrary CD packaging stickers. I second this method. I've done this to remove sticky crap since I discovered its effectiveness as a child. It works very well. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Tue Dec 30 01:19:59 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <000401bd14bd$df2a2ea0$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've > never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command What's wrong with being Jewish in this situation? Are they any less capable of helping you with your PDP-11? The JDL will certainly hear about this! :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Dec 30 03:23:28 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! Message-ID: <9711308835.AA883503098@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've > > never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command > > shell? I have installed two RK05 drives, the 0: drive has a {supposedly > > good} RT-11. Upon boot, I get the following on the terminal: > > > > 000000 170002 170002 165360 > > $ > > > > I'm assuming that the "$" prompt is the monitor prompt. It seems to only > > accept two-letter commands before performing an auto-carriage-return. The > > "165360" is also on the front panel display. > > OK... Assuming all your hardware is working and at the standard addresses > (it will be, unless somebody has messed about with it), try the following. > > 1) Turn on the machine, drives, terminal > 2) Put a good boot pack in drive 0. Flip the load/run switch on the drive > to run. The disk should start spinning, and after a minute or so the > heads should load. The READY and ONCYL lamps should light. Keep a finger on > the load/run switch and an ear to the drive. If you get unpleasant noises > when the heads load, suggesting a partial headcrash (the sound has been > described as a cat being fed backwards through a lawnmower!), then flip to > LOAD at once and your heads may still be useable. > 3) Type DK (or DK0 ). It MUST be in upper case. The RD and WR > lamps on the drive should flash a bit, and the machine will boot. If it > doesn't do anything, then either you don't have the RK05 boot ROM in > the system, or you have some hardware problem. Rich, you don't say what flavour of PDP-11 you've got, but I have vague memories of a '44. Certainly your description of behaviour sounds like the '44 console program (which runs on an Intel microprocessor somewhere in there. If this is the case, I think Tony's description may be incomplete. The '44 has a lever switch on the front panel marked something like HALT - RUN - BOOT. You can try booting by toggling this to the BOOT position and releasing it. Otherwise leave it in the RUN position and type: B DK0 I suppose I'd better check this in the manual when I get home tonight - If I'm wrong, Tony will never let me live it down... Philip. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Dec 30 09:05:40 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Back in the Game In-Reply-To: <34a873ee.527410756@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: Well folks I'm back in the game. Was busy since September or so with work and the holidays and so on and so forth. At work, I had to totally rebuild our dialup huntgroups (I run a state-wide ISP if anyone recalls), set up some Points-of-Presence in a couple other cities, redundacize our connectivity to the Net and so on. In other news, I received some more documentation and expansion cards for the SWTPC 6800 machine thanks to Eric Chomko. It's still a bit flakey but I have a couple ideas about that and I just have to sit down and hang it off the terminal server. I have an online store setup but not completely modified for my purposes. It has some dummy data in it right now and the categories need to be remapped but you can visit it at http://165.90.140.10/cgi-bin/retrocomputing/web_store.cgi and get a feel for what it'll be like. I'll use it to sell items for which I have no use. The gentleman with the PDP-11/84 called and wants me to retrieve the beast. We were held back because the week after I visited it back in September they tore down the loading dock and were rebuilding it so we had no way to get the 84 out of the building. I'll be attending several hamfests this year seeking out goodies and you can visit my hamfest list (the 98 listing isn't ready yet) at http://www.raccoon.com/~wireless/fests.html. Also, there's a local guy who is offering me an "Altair blue" S100 case and power supply. I don't know if it's an actual Altair case or just the same color but I've got to get over and take a look at it. That's all for now... Wirehead From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Dec 30 08:18:51 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Apple thingies In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Dec 29, 97 11:08:51 pm Message-ID: <9712301418.AA12973@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 668 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971230/4a4b464f/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Tue Dec 30 10:11:44 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! & What??? Message-ID: <003001bd1541$83f0dd20$54987c0a@office1> On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:19:59 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail wrote: >On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Richard A. Cini wrote: >> Anyway, I hooked a terminal up to it and lo-and-behold, a prompt. Now, I've >> never owned a PDP-11, so be gentile, here. How do I get it to run a command >What's wrong with being Jewish in this situation? Are they any less >capable of helping you with your PDP-11? >The JDL will certainly hear about this! :) >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Maybe I'm just slow, but I don't get it...Oh, DOOOOH! I get it now. You know, I never run spell-checkers on my e-mail, Maybe I should start! Jewish PDP-11 responses are welcome! :) Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Dec 30 16:56:11 1997 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! & What??? In-Reply-To: <003001bd1541$83f0dd20$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: <13320311455.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> That's definetly the ROM Monitr prompt, but on a '44 is says >>> Same for VAXen and the new DEC Alpha (It still has a ROM monitor! I get to play wit one at work. Nice and fast! And DEC, of course... I telnet to it from the VAX 'cause it's in a crampted closet) I think the numbers were bootrom addresses, maybe if you do xxxxxxg (xxxxxx being the addr involved) it will go. Oh, and Alphas also have a halt switch, it's on the backpanel. The 44 console processor is an 8085. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Dec 30 16:58:22 1997 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Documentation score! Message-ID: <13320311851.14.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Loads more docs from Knox! Vax/PDP stuff, and some PDP-8 printsets. I also saw DEC SYSTEM-TEN on some books. A CP/M diskset (Not sure what for), a few magtapes, and some module. What's an M840? I thought is was the CR04 card, am I wrong? I have't looked thru it all yet, more later. . ------- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Dec 30 17:07:38 1997 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-89 Disk Duplication Problem Message-ID: <34b57b03.146740010@hoser> I've been working with an H-89 that was given to me a few months ago, trying to make backups of the HDOS boot disk, both for myself and for Don Maslin, Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives. I've gone through the manuals and followed the instructions for copying the HDOS system perhaps 20 times, but with only one working copy to show for it. I had 4 blanks from Don, as well as another 4 of my own that I tried. The media tests available in HDOS seem to indicate everything is okay; in fact, I've used one of the same disks that failed with HDOS to make a copy of NorthStar CP/M on my IMSAI since then. The steps I've gone through are to INIT the diskette, then SYSGEN *.* to copy the system files and utilities. According to the manual, this is supposed to produce an exact copy of the boot disk. It appears to work, in that it asks me to swap disks 5 or 6 times (when I try doing a single drive copy), and it accesses both drives repeatedly (when using a two-drive copy). After it has been at this a while, it prints the message "20 files copied" and asks me to insert a bootable diskette to reboot from. If I go back to the original boot disk, it boots. With any of my copies (except one, which I thought I made exactly the same way as the others), the system gives the normal "H:" prompt, to which I respond "B" for "boot"; it spins the disk and then hangs. Normally, if the disk is bootable, it says "Action? (Boot)" and boots if you hit Return. Out of all these attempts, I've actually gotten one bootable disk. I've tried bulk-erasing the disks and starting over, thinking that perhaps that would help, but with the same results. I'm out of ideas... Can anyone offer any suggestions? I'm out of ideas... -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com From jill_farrell at americancentury.com Tue Dec 30 16:32:44 1997 From: jill_farrell at americancentury.com (Jill Farrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Mattel Electronic Football Message-ID: <34A97256.5237@americancentury.com> Hi -- perhaps you can help me! I am looking for a working Mattel Electronic Football game. Do you have any advice for me? I'm sending this from work, but would appreciate it if you could respond to my home e-mail -- farrell7@swbell.net Thanks and happy new year! From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Dec 30 19:37:37 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: MPI-52 as replacement for SA400? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got a Northstar Horizon that I'm starting to restore. The Northstar manual indicates that the Northstar disk controller wants to talk to one or two SA400s, which sounds about right considering the time period. Problem is the only SA400s, or similar, that I have are in my SWTPC 6800 and I don't want to pull them. I know that the SWTPC will accept an MPI-51 as a replacement for an SA400 (but not an SA400 on a controller that expects to see MPI-51s since they have a slightly higher step rate). Could I use an MPI-52, and under what conditions, as a replacement for the SA400s that the Northstar wants to see? If so, why? If not, why not? Thanks... Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 30 20:01:59 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: new additions: lots o apple stuff. Message-ID: <53113078.34a9a799@aol.com> someone posted to a local newsgroup about a non working apple //e for $10. here's what i got... apple //e in original box. not working, im told; boots to garbage on screen. it's a late model //e, but just before the enhanced version, so it has that nice keyboard feel i like. A1 cosmetic condition. duodisk in original box with cable. also in A1 condition except the drive latches are dirty from dirty fingers. mono monitor in original box. this is the one with the manual tilt screen and the video cable. A1 condition, of course. all manuals that ever would have shipped with this machine, in perfect condition of course. also got all the promotional items that went with it, including the apple stickers in their never opened bag. ~100 flippy disks of various apps, including some commercial ones. aps ext 80 col card in original box suprmod box, (no suprmod though). i also got manuals and papers with some of the apps as well. everything was dutifully packed up and looks to be seldom used. all in all, a perfect one for the collection! i noticed the shipping boxes say "the PERSONAL computer" lol. i have lots of spare apple chips so i'm wondering where do i start with the //e problem? no beep either but garbage on screen. chips were reseated already. david. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 30 20:16:44 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <9711308835.AA883503098@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Dec 30, 97 09:23:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1632 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971231/92d85bf4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 30 20:03:01 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <199712300341.AA17679@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 29, 97 10:41:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1208 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971231/708f2174/attachment.ksh From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Dec 30 21:16:49 1997 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 IPL & spare parts Message-ID: <199712310316.TAA08559@ptld1.ptld.uswest.net> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers) OK, I have a few small(1/2 ton...) problems... I broke my floppy drive! What size belt(IBM PN 2305616) does the 4965 drive use? And what material is the front cover? Seems that the cover for the floppy drive uses molded tabs instead of those nice metal snaps. Has anyone ever tried adding those snaps? I might do that... But meanwhile, I either need a replacement cover or glue it together. Would normal superglue work? OK, on to the floppy drive... Seems that after 15-20 years, floppy drives(among other things) like to break down. This time the belt was rather brittle, and it snapped when I tried to remove it. I'm expecting the same thing when I dig around in the hard drives. OK, on to the next question... I have a total of five hard drives(one 4963 and four 4967), and one of the 4967's was setup as the primary IPL drive. Problem is I don't know which one it is and have no way of figuring that out(at least until I get everything else running right). I have two floppies labeled as IPL... There is a set of two disks, the first says "EDL Compile System, Insert in Drive 1 and IPL" and the other says "EDL Compile System, Insert in Drive 2". What exactly are they? And the other disk just says "IPL" with nothing else on the label. And then there is the possibility that they are blank disks... BTW, I'm working on a page for my Series/1 on my Tripod web site, it should be up by the end of the week(assuming I can find my QuickCam by then). TIA -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ From gram at cnct.com Tue Dec 30 21:22:58 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Help on Altos 586 system... References: <3.0.3.32.19971225213933.007212c8@agora.rdrop.com> <199712291634.KAA07045@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <34A9BA92.CA97DC7@cnct.com> Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > Stuff I forgot to mention . . . . > > > > > > > > > When Xenix boots, it indicates that the machine has 840k of RAM, but says > > > little else. I'm not even sure right at the moment what processor is in > > > it. (not dug that far under the panels) > > It uses an 8086 (10Mc). Xenix ran almost exclusively on 8x86 CPU's, > although according to the _Microcomputer Buyers Guide_ (1983): > > "Micro$oft is enhancing UNIX for commercial applications and porting > it to the popular 16-bit microprocessors such as the Intel 8086, > Zilog Z-8000, Motorola 68000 and Digital PDP-11." The 586 was not the first Xenix system from Altos -- their first as I recall was an overpriced and unreliable 68000 system. The TRS-80 Model 16 blew it away, so Altos switched over to the 8x86 and after a while converted to SCO -- as Tandy did later, much to my annoyance. Microsoft was never able to create a viable consumer product out of Xenix, although they picked up a lot of good ideas during the effort of starting the project, which is why MS-DOS went beyond its CP/M-clone beginnings to add features such as the tree directory, (fake) I/O redirection, (fake) pipes, (fake) device independence, etc.. starting with version 2.0. They sublet the project to Altos, Tandy and SCO in that order, which companies actually produced products. SCO having no other business _except_ software naturally went for the 8x86 market, and eventually dominated that end of the Unix business for quite a few years, and now they own the rights to all of the original AT&T source code via the buyout from Novell. Of course, they're losing ground to Linux every day. And they _don't_ own the Unix trademark -- that's owned by The Open Group. (Tandy Xenix is where I fell into the black hole of Unix, and there's a Tandy 6000HD with a slightly ailing hard disk controller less than six feet from me which I _will_ resurrect). Oh, Altos Xenix appeared in early '82, Tandy Xenix in Jan '83, and SCO started shipping software in Sept '83. The latter two from personal memory, as I was actually paying attention at the time. The initial SCO offering for the XT left much to be desired, the AT version was a _lot_ better, but they conquered the market with Xenix/386. -- Ward Griffiths Two thousand yeare since Bethlehem and still we hear the lie, that after years of hopes and fears the best part's when we die. From groberts at mitre.org Tue Dec 30 21:35:38 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-89 Disk Duplication Problem In-Reply-To: <34b57b03.146740010@hoser> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971230223538.00776c2c@mail90> worth checking whether your system uses hard sectored or soft sectored disks. the original H8 and early H89 "all in one" systems were based on hard sectored (10 sectors) diskettes. it's just a guess but if you got a hard sectored diskette mixed in with some soft sectored ones then the only one that would successfully INIT and SYSGEN is the hard one. the HDOS BIOS may or may not be smart enough to report this problem. take a careful look at the original bootable diskette and count index holes (hard sectored disks will have 10 plus 1 = 11). if that doesn't do it a good head cleaning isn't a bad idea. i recently dusted off my old H8 and had lots of disk problems 'til i cleaned the heads. finally, if it *does* use hard sectored diskettes one has to wonder how usable they are given that these haven't been manufactured in at least 10 years. i can post or send you instructions that someone posted on how to make your own hard sectored disks by punching additional holes in a more modern diskette (tho i haven't tried this myself). - glenn At 11:07 PM 12/30/97 GMT, you wrote: >I've been working with an H-89 that was given to me a few months ago, >trying to make backups of the HDOS boot disk, both for myself and for >Don Maslin, Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives. I've >gone through the manuals and followed the instructions for copying the >HDOS system perhaps 20 times, but with only one working copy to show >for it. I had 4 blanks from Don, as well as another 4 of my own that >I tried. The media tests available in HDOS seem to indicate >everything is okay; in fact, I've used one of the same disks that >failed with HDOS to make a copy of NorthStar CP/M on my IMSAI since >then. The steps I've gone through are to INIT the diskette, then >SYSGEN *.* to copy the system files and utilities. According to the >manual, this is supposed to produce an exact copy of the boot disk. >It appears to work, in that it asks me to swap disks 5 or 6 times >(when I try doing a single drive copy), and it accesses both drives >repeatedly (when using a two-drive copy). After it has been at this a >while, it prints the message "20 files copied" and asks me to insert a >bootable diskette to reboot from. If I go back to the original boot >disk, it boots. With any of my copies (except one, which I thought I >made exactly the same way as the others), the system gives the normal >"H:" prompt, to which I respond "B" for "boot"; it spins the disk and >then hangs. Normally, if the disk is bootable, it says "Action? >(Boot)" and boots if you hit Return. Out of all these attempts, I've >actually gotten one bootable disk. I've tried bulk-erasing the disks >and starting over, thinking that perhaps that would help, but with the >same results. I'm out of ideas... Can anyone offer any suggestions? >I'm out of ideas... > > -Bill Richman > bill_r@inetnebr.com > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >"When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. > When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. > When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. > Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." > -www.paranoia.com > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 30 22:12:17 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: New to the collection Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971230221217.006c7568@pop3.concentric.net> Been on the road the last few weeks but picked up a few items along the way. In Houston I got a A20000 KB for 4.95 they wanted too much for the monitor and computer; picked Mac KB for 2.99; commodore 128D complete 1.00; VTEK Braille Display unit; Mac color display M1212 15.00 works; HP 45711B notebook with HP 9118 3.5 ext unit, and HP thinkjet model 2225B all for 5.00; back here in the TwinCities (MN) I got Toshiba T1200 for trade; a Epson Equity LT Q150A for trade; Toshiba T1100 Plus not working for 15.00; Lisa 2 for 5.00; a Cari portable power unit for the Apple IIc for 3.00; Epyx Monster Maze cartridge; Atari 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe cartridge; Zenith ZWL-183-93 laptop free; 13 TI travelmate 2000 notebooks $5 each non working; various books and manuals and different brands of mice (Mac, PC, Next, etc). It's been a good holiday for shopping. Keep Computing !!! Happy New Year to ALL. From Zeus334 at aol.com Wed Dec 31 09:34:21 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <971231103419_17394961@mrin53> OK, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS? Xenix? CP/M? (Minix I know) From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Dec 31 09:17:58 1997 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! Message-ID: <006601bd1602$36a26540$54987c0a@office1> On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:02:06 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: >>OK... Assuming all your hardware is working and at the standard addresses >>t will be, unless somebody has messed about with it), try the following. {...snip...} Wow, this thing works great! Faster than I expected. Thanks for the help! On Tue, 30 Dec 97 09:23:28 GMT Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >>Rich, you don't say what flavour of PDP-11 you've got, but I have vague >>mories of a '44. Certainly your description of behaviour sounds like >>the '44 console program (which runs on an Intel microprocessor somewhere >>in there. Phil, it's an 11/34a. Booting works by issuing a "DK" at the $ prompt. The front keypad controller is an Intel 8008. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Dec 31 10:01:31 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <971231103419_17394961@mrin53> from "Zeus334@aol.com" at Dec 31, 97 10:34:21 am Message-ID: <9712311601.AA17264@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19971231/29043d8b/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 12:17:06 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <971231103419_17394961@mrin53> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231121706.457722fe@intellistar.net> At 10:34 AM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >OK, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS? > >Xenix? >CP/M? >(Minix I know) > Forth. I have a bone stock XT if you want to find out! Also have a Poly Forth package. Joe From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Dec 31 10:23:30 1997 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Heathkit H-89 Disk Duplication Problem In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971230223538.00776c2c@mail90> References: <3.0.3.32.19971230223538.00776c2c@mail90> Message-ID: <34ab6fa7.40097967@hoser> On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:35:38 -0500, groberts@mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) wrote: >worth checking whether your system uses hard sectored or soft sectored >disks. the original H8 and early H89 "all in one" systems were based on I know the difference between hard and soft sectored disks; they're all hard (10) sectored diskettes. > >if that doesn't do it a good head cleaning isn't a bad idea. i recently >dusted off my old H8 and had lots of disk problems 'til i cleaned the heads. That's the next thing; I just haven't made it out to pick up a head cleaning kit yet. Although it *does* seem to read the diskettes just fine to boot from them and run programs, and it passes the read/write tests that write data to the whole disk and then read it back several times with no problems. > >finally, if it *does* use hard sectored diskettes one has to wonder how >usable they are given that these haven't been manufactured in at least 10 >years. i can post or send you instructions that someone posted on how to >make your own hard sectored disks by punching additional holes in a more >modern diskette (tho i haven't tried this myself). I was able to format and use some of the same diskettes with NorthStar DOS and CP/M on my IMSAI that failed to boot the H-89. This, coupled with the successful media tests, seems to indicate that the diskettes themselves are fine. I've got the instructions for punching additional sector timing holes in new diskettes; I haven't tried it either. Thanks, though. I'm thinking of trying one of the drives I'm using on the IMSAI in the H-89 to see if that makes any difference. That will also take care of the problem if the heads are worn or dirty on the current drive, but I can't see how that's possible in light of the other evidence. Thanks for the suggestions, at any rate. -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 12:25:02 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 IPL & spare parts Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231122502.45779058@intellistar.net> FYI, > >Joe, >Do you remember I once told you that IBM carries parts WELL past the date >of marketing withdrawal.?? There is an 800 number to call to get prices >AND parts identifaction. There is a FEE for the parts identification but >the price quote and availability info is free. Write this # down..you may >need it some day. 800-388-7080. >If you call it and select parts pricing for PN 2305616 you will find that >it has been assigned a new PN 2462593 and it costs $18.75. You can also >order directly through this number. This does NOT work for PC parts (only >real machines!!). Pick a part number off of your 5100 and see if it is >still in the sysem (probably not) >John >P.S. there is an ex IBM'r in north Jersey who formed his own company to do >nothing but repair series/1's years ago. His name was Al Horton and his >company was called....are you ready for this.....Series/1. I don't have >his # but your friend can try the phonebook. > Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 31 10:51:30 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <71db9355.34aa7815@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-31 10:36:45 EST, you write: << K, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS? >> yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free. there's something called ELKS which is under development, but you need to have a working linux box or similar to download the images and create them for use on the xt. seems that 720k drives on the xt were recommended as well. for more info, goto www.uk.linux.org (i think) david From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 31 11:11:04 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01bd160f$13d6b2c0$LocalHost@hotze> Finally something that I KNOW about! The XT won't use Linux, that's only for 386 & higher processors. The XT came with a 4.77MHz 8088, but it's not hard to find a 8MHz version. You've got to consider that you've ususally got less than 512K of workable RAM. Depending on what kind of HDD you have (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine with a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum) and monitor (the XT came with a mono, but many have CGA EGA and I've even found a VGA) you can run Windows, up to 3.1. You can also run OS/2 (earlier versions) and many of the smaller OSes made during the early 80's. Software is EASY to find for 'em, they'll run most of the software I've seen that was made up to 88-89 or so. Many of the programs that are found on the "Ultimate Collections of xxxx Shareware", or stuff like that, mostly old DOS programs will run on the XT. So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or Windows. Also, try to use the best monitor that you can find, as they can pretty much run what a 286 can. Try to find as much RAM as possible. Hope that this helps, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 7:58 PM Subject: Re: operating systems >In a message dated 97-12-31 10:36:45 EST, you write: > ><< K, let's say I have a stock IBM PC XT. What can I put on it except DOS? > >> > yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free. there's something called >ELKS which is under development, but you need to have a working linux box or >similar to download the images and create them for use on the xt. seems that >720k drives on the xt were recommended as well. for more info, goto >www.uk.linux.org (i think) > >david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 13:23:43 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: DEC stuff Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231132343.4c476d3a@intellistar.net> I was given some DEC manuals and have no use for them. They're all new in the shrink wrap and if anyone wants them they can have them for the cost of postage from Florida. Here's a list: Network Communications- DECnet_DOS Getting Started, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS User's Guide, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS Release Notes, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS Installation Guide, Network Communications- DECnet_DOS Programmer's REference Manual. I don't know if there is any software in the packs but it doesn't look like it. Joe From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 31 11:49:42 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> [[[ snip ]]] > The XT came with a 4.77MHz 8088, but it's not > hard to find a 8MHz version. OK so far... [[[ snip ]]] > you can run Windows, up to 3.1. You can also run OS/2 (earlier > versions) and many of the smaller OSes made during the early 80's. I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the 8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if you can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a 286, but I do not believe it does. > > yes, minix would work, but i dont think it's free. The lastest version of Minix _is_ free for personal use. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Dec 31 11:58:15 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971231125815.007ec8d0@netpath.net> At 10:49 AM 12/31/97 -0700, you wrote: >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. Now if you want to see something really fly, load up Windows 1.03 or 2.0 on it. Those'll run like lightning on any x86 with 512k or more. I have 1.03 running off a DD 3.5" floppy on a GRiDCASE 3 laptop (XT class, no HD, Gas Plasma CGA, 512k, DOS in ROM) >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if you >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a >286, but I do not believe it does. Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 14:10:20 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971231125815.007ec8d0@netpath.net> References: <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231141020.4577148c@intellistar.net> At 12:58 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing >something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? > > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net > > Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC. Joe From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Dec 31 12:19:29 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971231141020.4577148c@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971231125815.007ec8d0@netpath.net> <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971231131929.007d8780@netpath.net> At 02:10 PM 12/31/97, you wrote: > Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment >and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC. That's out then. I want something truly bizarre to run on my GRiDCASE 3. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From dastar at wco.com Wed Dec 31 12:37:14 1997 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: new additions: lots o apple stuff. In-Reply-To: <53113078.34a9a799@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, SUPRDAVE wrote: > i have lots of spare apple chips so i'm wondering where do i start with the > //e problem? no beep either but garbage on screen. chips were reseated > already. Sounds possibly like a CPU problem. Try re-seating the CPU. Then try replacing it. Make sure it is inserted in the proper orientation. Next try replacing the ROMs. Of course you'll need another working //e to pull the ROMs from. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Dec 31 12:30:33 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19971231125815.007ec8d0@netpath.net> References: <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <199712311851.MAA21415@onyx.southwind.net> > >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on > >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the > >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for > >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. > > Now if you want to see something really fly, load up Windows 1.03 or 2.0 on > it. Those'll run like lightning on any x86 with 512k or more. I have 1.03 > running off a DD 3.5" floppy on a GRiDCASE 3 laptop (XT class, no HD, Gas > Plasma CGA, 512k, DOS in ROM) Yes, Win 2.0 was quick; code bloat in those days wasn't merely the inconvienience it is today-- back then it was FATAL! We had a small, minimalist programming ethic back then. > >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are > >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if > you > >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a > >286, but I do not believe it does. I have a copy of Concurrent. The version I have will ONLY run on a PC or XT! Hell, I don't think it even supports hard disks! (But I can check). > > Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing > something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? > > > - John Higginbotham > - limbo.netpath.net > Jeff From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 31 13:06:27 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01IRTN1PZ25E8WWMD9@cc.usu.edu> > Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ > or forth? ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth is a large archive of Forth stuff. The home for fig is http://www.forth.org/ > Am I missing > something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? Sure, throw _that_ in my face! I'm aware of a company locally that used to run all their accounting on a multiuser BASIC whose name escapes me. They were using an AT at the time; I don't know whether that particular BASIC would run on an XT. When you get to things like multiuser Forths and multiuser BASICs, it's hard to say where the language stops and the OS begins... Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 31 13:09:16 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01IRTN97SFQW8WWMD9@cc.usu.edu> >At 02:10 PM 12/31/97, you wrote: > >> Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment >>and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC. > >That's out then. I want something truly bizarre to run on my GRiDCASE 3. Many years ago I bought a single-user copy of CCS MUMPS. It will run on an XT (it even used to work just fine on my DEC Rainbow), but runs under MS-DOS, so it's not _really_ an operating system (unless you want to grant Windows operating system status). Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Dec 31 13:48:57 1997 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <199712311851.MAA21415@onyx.southwind.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19971231125815.007ec8d0@netpath.net> <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971231144857.007cd900@netpath.net> At 12:30 PM 12/31/97 -0600, you wrote: >Yes, Win 2.0 was quick; code bloat in those days wasn't merely the >inconvienience it is today-- back then it was FATAL! We had a small, >minimalist programming ethic back then. It was nice to be able to run a program off one floppy, and never worrying about running out of memory, even if you only had 128k/256k. But, memory prices got cheaper, shoot, everything got cheaper, and now we need a supercomputer just to run a word processor like Word 97. I can understand utilizing more system resources for new and better (not to mention useful) features, but it looks to me like people these days are just throwing in options because they can. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From pcjrclub at efn.org Wed Dec 31 14:31:59 1997 From: pcjrclub at efn.org (Louie Levy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: PCjr Cartridges Message-ID: <34AAABBF.AFE0954@efn.org> There were (still are) a lot of cartridges for the PCjr. Many of the games came on these cartridges so that Junior's internal memory could be taken advantage of. Also second parties came out with "quick boot" cartridges that would speedup the booting process. There was one called "jr Video" and also one that had another BIOS on it for a hard drive set up. The BASIC cartridges are still in demand. Does this help anyone ot there?? Louie Levy Eugene PCjr Club Newsletter Editor www.efn.org/~pcjrclub From Zeus334 at aol.com Wed Dec 31 15:02:51 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: >> >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on >> >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the >> >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for >> >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. >> >> Now if you want to see something really fly, load up Windows 1.03 or 2.0 on >> it. Those'll run like lightning on any x86 with 512k or more. I have 1.03 >> running off a DD 3.5" floppy on a GRiDCASE 3 laptop (XT class, no HD, Gas >> Plasma CGA, 512k, DOS in ROM) > > Yes, Win 2.0 was quick; code bloat in those days wasn't merely the > inconvienience it is today-- back then it was FATAL! We had a small, > minimalist programming ethic back then. > > > >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are >> >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if >> you >> >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a >> >286, but I do not believe it does. > >I have a copy of Concurrent. The version I have will ONLY run on a >PC or XT! Hell, I don't think it even supports hard disks! (But I >can check). > >> >> Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing >> something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? >> >> >> - John Higginbotham >> - limbo.netpath.net >> > > > Jeff Well, would someone dare offend the MS EULA and send me one of: a)Windows 1.x/2.x b)Concurrent CP/M c)Xenix d)Forth From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Dec 31 17:44:19 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <01bd160f$13d6b2c0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: > (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine with > a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum) and > So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy with crond. You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. Wirehead - Anthony Clifton From Zeus334 at aol.com Wed Dec 31 17:32:44 1997 From: Zeus334 at aol.com (Zeus334) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <5780c90.34aad61e@aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-31 17:40:13 EST, you write: << > (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine with > a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum) and > So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy with crond. You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. Wirehead - Anthony Clifton >> Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU? From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Dec 31 13:01:17 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: References: <01bd160f$13d6b2c0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <199712312357.SAA23409@mail.cgocable.net> Hi all! Snip! > Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the > processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable > linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know > because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd > still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps > itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy > with crond. > > You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have > full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write > shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. > > Wirehead - Anthony Clifton Good! I've a LTE 386s/20 with 10mb ram/500mb HD. How bad the performance go if someone have successfully ran win X on it? Slow as cold honey or frozen? I have no luck getting very basic win X to work on that LCD display even included the scan H and V rates in there right off the original manual (34khz and 140hz respectively) with either SVGA (I know it will still be 16 colors "shades"), mono or VGA16 servers. After running the GUI-based program to configure X it says I have a working server but when after that, hung before I get the adjust screen part. I tried several graphics based games that were not required for X with same results. Is ther a way to force a old fashioned VGA mode on all of these stuff? Slackware 3.4 and XF86 3.3.1. I had a feeling that Slackware 3.4 is tad broken because the bare.i boot kernel is broken right off the site along with minor irrations but I have no problem with other kernels. (Old notebook has cached 4k and o/c'ed the 386sx cpu to 25mhz w/ no problems.) Thanks! Jason D. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Dec 31 19:17:24 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <5780c90.34aad61e@aol.com> Message-ID: > Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the > processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable > linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know > because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd > still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps > itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy > with crond. > > You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have > full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write > shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. > Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From > all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for > doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for > people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on > Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU? > In 1993 I started an ISP around $500, a 386 box cobbled together from friends' spare junk and Linux...today that ISP is statewide, owns all its hardware, has no debts and pays me twice the median income in my state, I own my home and have the leisure time in the evenings to correct folks' misconceptions about the usefulness of Linux. Why? Because of Linux, it's flexibility, it's cost (FREE) and it's reliability. I run 6 web servers on Linux, 3 mail servers, 4 domain name servers, several authentication servers and use Linux boxes to quite reliably replace ethernet to ethernet routers and switches that would normally cost thousands...for only a few hundred dollars per system. In addition, I use a very secure firewall product based around a custom linux box. I use linux for all my text editing needs and for modifying HUGE log files...had to change all the 1995 dates to 1997 in 20 25mb log files today...couldn't do it on a Mac, couldn't even talk to Windows about it...but was able to accomplish it on Linux with a standard utility called 'sed' with ONE command line per file, each command line being fewer than 40 characters in length including file name and the entire process took UNDER A MINUTE. I'm currently building a CGI system on a linux box which will implement a store to sell un-needed retrocomputing hardware...and it works quite nicely I might add...in fact, it works so nicely... ...that a gentleman who colocates an NT based system running Cold Fusion commented that my web store, running over a 33.6k DIALUP link, is faster and more responsive than his system running on a T1! I use it to cross-compile code for microcontrollers. A friend of mine uses it for C development. Another friend of mine maintains a 70 megabyte database on a Linux box at work. A local mortgage company is going to Linux for many important tasks...ever hear of Norwest? And...as for recompiling the kernel...at least with Linux YOU CAN. I've built linux kernels that will reliably accept 32 or more incoming dialup connections on multiport serial cards (not even the smart ones) and generate throughput to the users faster than what my competitors' fancy terminal servers can do. (I now use terminal servers because of the 56k modem nightmare) I've built linux kernels to implement multi-homing web servers at a tiny fraction of the cost of systems like NT or BSDI. If I want to install a different ethernet card the kernel can auto-recognize and configure it...why? Because you can compile support for whatever ethernet boards you want right into the kernel. I've seen a Linux web server running on a 75mhz Pentium, with 64 megs of RAM and IDE hard drives outperform (and I have witnesses!) an NT web server on a dual Pentium Pro 200 with 128mb of RAM and fast SCSI hard drives. So don't sit there and tell me Linux isn't good for anything. If it weren't for Linux and how it allowed me to break into the ISP market I'd probably still be working for $10/hour for some big corporate ISP or doing COBOL programming for some insurance company. Linux Torvalds and his thousands of cohorts have produced probably the best set of software with the best intentions in the history of computing. Saying it's useful for nothing more than kernel recompiles is utter non-sense. But don't let me bother you with the facts. =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Dec 31 19:19:55 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Wirehead Prime) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <199712312357.SAA23409@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > > Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the > > processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable > > linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know > > because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd > > still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps > > itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy > > with crond. > > > > You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have > > full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write > > shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. > > > > Wirehead - Anthony Clifton > > I've a LTE 386s/20 with 10mb ram/500mb HD. How bad the performance > go if someone have successfully ran win X on it? Slow as cold honey > or frozen? I have no luck getting very basic win X to work on that > LCD display even included the scan H and V rates in there right off > the original manual (34khz and 140hz respectively) with either SVGA > (I know it will still be 16 colors "shades"), mono or VGA16 servers. > After running the GUI-based program to configure X it says I have a > working server but when after that, hung before I get the adjust > screen part. I tried several graphics based games that were not > required for X with same results. Is ther a way to force a old > fashioned VGA mode on all of these stuff? Slackware 3.4 and XF86 > 3.3.1. To run X you will want to have 16 megs, a reasonable size swap partition and at least some variant of a 486dx processor. It's not bad on a processor 33 mhz or above... X has higher overhead than Windows 3.11 or Windows 95 because it is much less integrated into the OS. It has the advantage, however, of allowing multiple X terminals on the same unix box...IE multiuser GUI. Wirehead - Anthony Clifton From bwit at pobox.com Wed Dec 31 18:34:56 1997 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01BD161A.CECF6120@ppp-151-164-37-240.rcsntx.swbell.net> Have a look at: http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html ---------- From: Zeus334[SMTP:Zeus334@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 5:32 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: operating systems In a message dated 97-12-31 17:40:13 EST, you write: << > (the XT came with a 10MB, but the XT's lasted so long that I found mine with > a 42, another reason that you can't run Linux, it requires 40MB minimum) and > So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the processor and the RAM not so much the hard drive. You can run a usable linux system on a 386 with 4mb of RAM and 20mb of drive space. I know because I ran a small FTP/web server on one...if I powered it up, it'd still run and do ok...can't handle many simultaneous users and swaps itself to death if you don't reboot it every morning but that's easy with crond. You can't do ALOT of software development mind you...but you can have full networking utilities...even run Lynx for web stuff...and write shell scripts and editors and do all kinds of useful things. Wirehead - Anthony Clifton >> Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU? From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 31 20:32:30 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <01bd160f$13d6b2c0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: >Finally something that I KNOW about! The XT won't use Linux, that's only Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is a version of Linux which will run on the 8086 and 80286 processors. Take a look at http://www.linux.org.uk/ELKS-Home/index.html Looks interesting, but I don't collect IBM clones, so I don't have anything to try it on. Don't feel bad, I've been using Linux since the beginning, and the first I heard about this was about a month ago. >a VGA) you can run Windows, up to 3.1. You can also run OS/2 (earlier >versions) and many of the smaller OSes made during the early 80's. Software OS/2 on the other hand requires a minimum of 80286 with version 1.3 and earlier. Version 2 requires a 80386. > So, Linux isn't possible, DOS isn't what you want, so get OS/2 or >Windows. Also, try to use the best monitor that you can find, as they can >pretty much run what a 286 can. Try to find as much RAM as possible. I'd say the list would be: CP/M-86 Various flavors of DOS Minix Elks (Linux) Maybe Xenix Probably some other obscure OS's My personal recommendation is some version of DOS, and run GEOS on top of it. See http://www.newdealinc.com for information on Geoworks. Unfortunatly while writing this, I just check the web page to make sure it was still current, and it looks like it now only supports 286's or higher, and I don't see any info on the previous version. This really ticks me off, thier manifesto is bringing new life to old computers, and I thought this is pretty cool. Now they're obsoleting the 8088/8086! Maybe I should retract this recommendation :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 31 20:39:18 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <5780c90.34aad61e@aol.com> Message-ID: >Er....one question here. I've tried Linux many times, as well as Minix. From >all of my attempts, I have come to the following conclusion: Linux is not for >doing USEFUL things. The express purpose of Linux is to provide something for >people to recompile. After all, you HAVEN'T seen people doing something on >Linux besides recompiling the kernel and configuring TCP/IP stacks, HAVE YOU? This has to be flame bait! I guess that old 486 I've got that acts as a Firewall, IP Masquerader, Appletalk Server, NFS Server, Samba Server, FTP Server, Web Server, etc. is running something other than Linux? I've also used it for software testing and development, as well as an X-Terminal. Do you have any idea of how many businesses are using Linux for work? Get a clue, Linux is a real and widely used OS that far surpasses many commercial alternatives! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Dec 31 20:54:59 1997 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Classifieds2000 found 13 old computers Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971231185204.4dc72b82@ricochet.net> Classifieds 2000 (http://www.classifieds2000.com/) has a thing to automatically let you know when new listings are added. I've signed up for anything in the "old computers" category, and got this t'other day: >Greetings from Classifieds2000, > >Cool Notify found the following items meeting your search criteria: [...] > IMSAI 1978 - DESK TOP, $200, Used > Eve: (530) 877-5368 Mail: sugar-ii@webtv.net [...] >To view the complete ads, go to: > > http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?358502+29-DEC-97 Hope someone can afford to give it a good home! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 23:28:30 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: operating systems: FORTH In-Reply-To: <34acfc53.2523913@mail.swbell.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19971231141020.4577148c@intellistar.net> <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231232830.21af80ae@intellistar.net> At 02:17 AM 1/1/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:10:20, you said: > >>At 12:58 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing >>>something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? >>> >>> >> Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment >>and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC. > >I've run FORTH on TI-99, C-64, and Atari-800. (sans IBM/ROM Basic) I'm sure you have, there are lots of versions of Forth. This discussion was originally discussing Poly Forth by Forth Inc. and it requires IBM BASIC ROM. I made both the original comment about the availability of Forth OS/languge and the reply about it and APL requiring ROM BASIC. Joe >_______________ > >Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net >Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 23:38:46 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:59 2005 Subject: Classifieds2000 found 13 old computers <<<< WRONG In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971231185204.4dc72b82@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231233846.21afd522@intellistar.net> You should have read the ad. It says "WANTED TO BUY AN IMSAI COMPUTER WITH OR WITH OUT MANUALS. ALSO ALTAIRS, PROLOG, KIMS, SBC-80-10 BY INTEL YEARS 1975-1982 DECS, JUPER-II BY WAVE MATE. I WILL PAY UP TO 200+ FOR CSOME ITEMS. ". Classifieds2000 is a waste of time IMO. Joe At 08:54 PM 12/31/97 -0600, you wrote: >Classifieds 2000 (http://www.classifieds2000.com/) has a thing to >automatically let you know when new listings are added. I've signed up for >anything in the "old computers" category, and got this t'other day: > >>Greetings from Classifieds2000, >> >>Cool Notify found the following items meeting your search criteria: >[...] >> IMSAI 1978 - DESK TOP, $200, Used >> Eve: (530) 877-5368 Mail: sugar-ii@webtv.net >[...] >>To view the complete ads, go to: >> >> http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?358502+29-DEC-97 > >Hope someone can afford to give it a good home! > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 31 23:44:27 1997 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19971231234427.2da733d6@intellistar.net> At 04:02 PM 12/31/97 EST, you wrote: >>> >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on > >> >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the > >> >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for > >> >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. > >> > >> Now if you want to see something really fly, load up Windows 1.03 or 2.0 >on > >> it. Those'll run like lightning on any x86 with 512k or more. I have 1.03 > >> running off a DD 3.5" floppy on a GRiDCASE 3 laptop (XT class, no HD, Gas > >> Plasma CGA, 512k, DOS in ROM) > > >> Yes, Win 2.0 was quick; code bloat in those days wasn't merely the >> inconvienience it is today-- back then it was FATAL! We had a small, >> minimalist programming ethic back then. >> >> > >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are > >> >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 >(if > >> you > >> >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a > >> >286, but I do not believe it does. > > > >I have a copy of Concurrent. The version I have will ONLY run on a > >PC or XT! Hell, I don't think it even supports hard disks! (But I > >can check). > > > >> > >> Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing > >> something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? > >> > >> > >> - John Higginbotham > >> - limbo.netpath.net > >> >> >> >> Jeff >Well, would someone dare offend the MS EULA and send me one of: >a)Windows 1.x/2.x >b)Concurrent CP/M >c)Xenix >d)Forth > I don't know about anyone else but I might consider it if I knew who "me" is. Joe From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 31 22:11:57 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: Classifieds2000 found 13 old computers In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19971231185204.4dc72b82@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >Classifieds 2000 (http://www.classifieds2000.com/) has a thing to >automatically let you know when new listings are added. I've signed up for >anything in the "old computers" category, and got this t'other day: > >>Greetings from Classifieds2000, >> >>Cool Notify found the following items meeting your search criteria: >[...] >> IMSAI 1978 - DESK TOP, $200, Used >> Eve: (530) 877-5368 Mail: sugar-ii@webtv.net >[...] >>To view the complete ads, go to: >> >> http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/Search.exe?358502+29-DEC-97 > >Hope someone can afford to give it a good home! Roger, I just checked this out, actually it is some guy that wants to buy one of these or some other rare systems that he lists, and he MIGHT be willing to pay that much. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Dec 31 14:03:27 1997 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems Message-ID: <01bd1627$28760240$LocalHost@hotze> >I'll have to reserve judgement on Win 3.1 as I've never tried to run it on >an 8088 (I thought Microsoft dropped support for the mode required by the >8088 in Win3.1, though), but OS/2 is right out. It's entire reason for >being is to run on the 286, so an XT won't cut it. I haven't personally tried it, but a Japanese company had some XT clone laptops (OK, luggables) which ran Windows 3.x (Maybe it was 3.0, or 3.1, there's not to awful much of a difference in my mind). >In addition to Xenix, CP/M-86, Minix, and a variety of Forths, there are >other Unix clones (Venix, for exmaple), the UCSD P-system, and MP/M-86 (if you >can find it!). I don't know offhand whether Concurrent CP/M-86 requires a >286, but I do not believe it does. Yes, but someone somehow (maybe they just upgraded the motherboard) used OS/2 on their XT. (Well, it had an XT case) Want to see how much people can laugh without getting knocked out/dying? Call IBM tech support on it. Tim D. Hotze From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Dec 31 18:51:11 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <01bd1684$9b600fa0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971231185111.00c26660@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Hotze head-scratched, yawned, then typed: >Exactly. PC's also became popular because they could do ANYTHING. But my >uses and yours probably are different. I use word processing, (I can type >faster than I handwrite), but I also use e-mail, the 'Net, my browser, 3D >software, and many other things. Uh, PC's can do _anything_? Kewl. Set up an IBM PC with 64K RAM, 1 35-track SSDD Floppy drive, run a multi-user, multi-tasking operating system on it, and still have enough RAM/Floppy room left over to actually do something *useful*. Lemme know when it's done. My CoCo in the next room is set up to do just that. Oh, and BTW: I can do *everything* you listed above on my Atari 1040STf... albeit not as quickly as my Cyrix box (but there *is* a reason why I overclocked it!! ;-) but anything possible on today's Pentium machines can be done right now by machines at least 10 years old... sometimes better! >No, it won't. But that doesn't mean that it can't get easy. (Or just not >hard) Linux will be here for awhile, and so we've got to live withit. Linux isn't hard. My first install with _no_ Linux experience took just over an hour to install... and when I was done, (with only the initial kernal boot) it was useful. My latest Win95 install took me almost 6 hours to get it working somewhat -- ButtPlug-n-play chose the wrong Ethernet cards -- but after 3 reboots the wrong drivers (I tried putting in the right drivers -- NT doesn't even mind being helped along, but 95 whacked the right ones and reinstalled the wrong ones) started working marginally. Two more reboots to get the SCSI card working with the scanner, A reboot to get the screen at the correct resolution / color depth, and 2 more reboots after software installs that required it. Granted, Linux isn't an ooey-gooey with pretty pictures, and as such one might require 1/2 a brain to use it -- my personal opinion -- good. Keep all the idio-er-users with a brainless box... Just had a Luser call the voice-mail today with this message: "Uh, my daughter just downloaded our entire computer onto a disk. How do I get it back and boot it?" Not to sound like a shit-fer-brains, but my holiday is better spent talking to you guys & gals than spending 6 hours on the phone talking to a lady who specifically told me "I don't want to learn anything about my new computer -- I just want to get on the Internet." -- My boss specifically forbade me to answer those types of calls anyway ('cause I usually like to be helpful to newbies) and I don't get my regular work done. Yep, Win95 is the NOS for her! (NOS stands for Non-Operating System). But I digress... Sorry for the rambling, Have yourselves a joyous and prosperous '98, and keep those geezers computing!!!! :-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Dec 31 18:57:37 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: <199801011939.AA07110@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19971231185737.00c09290@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Allison J Parent head-scratched, yawned, then typed: > >3.0 supports all, so does 3.1. Allison: You're correct on everything, but there is a small nit to pick: Windows 3.1 did not *ship* with CGA drivers in the box -- but you could download them for free from MicroSoft's BBS -- I had to do that when my VGA screen went kablooey, and had to limp in CGA for a coupla weeks. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 31 18:17:52 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: Electrician came; PDP-11 works! In-Reply-To: <006601bd1602$36a26540$54987c0a@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Dec 31, 97 10:17:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 789 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980101/e043c9f1/attachment.ksh From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Dec 31 20:17:55 1997 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems: FORTH In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971231141020.4577148c@intellistar.net> References: <01IRTKC7L2SI8WWMMB@cc.usu.edu> <3.0.1.16.19971231141020.4577148c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34acfc53.2523913@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:10:20, you said: >At 12:58 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Anyone know of a free source for x86 CP/M? or forth? Am I missing >>something? Isn't forth a language, not an OS? >> >> > Yes, it's a language but like IBM APL it has (is ?) it's on evironment >and OS. Both require a IBM with the ROM BASIC. I've run FORTH on TI-99, C-64, and Atari-800. (sans IBM/ROM Basic) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Dec 31 20:16:11 1997 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: MPI-52 as replacement for SA400? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34b9fbc9.75972282@hoser> Is the SA-400 the standard Northstar floppy drive? I've been running a Northstar floppy controller in my IMSAI, using just a couple of plain old IBM-XT floppy drives. I was clued in by someone else on this list that they would work, and they seem to be fine; even handling the original hard-sectored diskettes! I was under the impression that the sectoring was at least in part determined by the drive, but have been told (and have seen for myself) that this is not so; it's determined by the controller. Hope this helps! On Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:37:37 -0600 (CST), you wrote: > >I've got a Northstar Horizon that I'm starting to restore. The Northstar >manual indicates that the Northstar disk controller wants to talk to one >or two SA400s, which sounds about right considering the time period. > >Problem is the only SA400s, or similar, that I have are in my SWTPC 6800 >and I don't want to pull them. I know that the SWTPC will accept an >MPI-51 as a replacement for an SA400 (but not an SA400 on a controller >that expects to see MPI-51s since they have a slightly higher step rate). > >Could I use an MPI-52, and under what conditions, as a replacement for >the SA400s that the Northstar wants to see? If so, why? If not, why not? > >Thanks... > >Anthony Clifton - Wirehead -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Dec 31 19:17:54 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: Classifieds2000 found 13 old computers <<<< WRONG In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19971231233846.21afd522@intellistar.net> References: <1.5.4.16.19971231185204.4dc72b82@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199801010613.BAA09049@mail.cgocable.net> > You should have read the ad. It says "WANTED TO BUY AN IMSAI COMPUTER WITH > OR WITH OUT MANUALS. ALSO ALTAIRS, PROLOG, KIMS, SBC-80-10 BY INTEL YEARS > 1975-1982 DECS, JUPER-II BY WAVE MATE. I WILL PAY UP TO 200+ FOR CSOME > ITEMS. ". > > Classifieds2000 is a waste of time IMO. > > > Joe Yeah, and it's good for normal stuff *AND* typical "Jones/Janes type" crowd with greens to burn/hoping to snatch 'em by expectent sellers. I tried once there and these offers and asking prices is way out 70% percent of time. Not good, and fault was it's too accepting type due to it's interface. Ebay have some faults due to timing problems and uncontrolled bidding process made this very unenjoyable bidding for me. Email list and newsgroups are far better source for your special requests and often reasonable prices found there! Main problem, with most of these crowds do not have reasonable acceptanace of what real value of old and resold/ discontuined new equipments. Today, I saw a notebook 486dx 25/4mb/170mb with little bunch of s/w (win/dos and minor s/w) selling for stupid $600. no. NO way. Expect about 150 to 100 for it now. :) Even there is one reseller selling new equipments at outragous prices, right now I'm watching the honest responses nipping at it saying bad deal/overpriced. Recently, my friend was not very careful of questioning the seller (this was on Ebay btw) carefully enough. The deal was so so in my opinion and had to help out my friend fixing BOTH Epson NB/SL-25 80mb/8mb, docking station, and 4 set of dead batteries along with one broken latch that. Both were 200 each, no brick, both dead cmos battery (very hard to find due to shape/size of it) and no manuals and a big BOOT for Epson who wants $25 each for every call. I assume the seller's ad's tad of lying and also assume seller is guilty until accounted for in WRITING (by pointed questionings and fix the price) before finishing the deal otherwise the deal is off. To all 'net shopper, be careful! IMHO Jason D. Nip! From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Dec 31 19:57:37 1997 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:00 2005 Subject: operating systems In-Reply-To: References: <199712312357.SAA23409@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199801010653.BAA26595@mail.cgocable.net> There's 1998 now and everyone is zzz'ing away........ HI! > > > > Errrr...not to quibble...but the primary restriction on using Linux is the Nip! There's the proveb: If there is a Need, will find solutions or something like that. I have a need and "unususal" solutions might be found because I have little $ and the exhange rate recently shot up. OUCH! :( And I love my oldie Luddite notebook and was trying to find a way to get most of features I can do like w.p., some number munching in future, make it more multitasking with linux. And I also wished there were utilites that converts any Word and WP, unsusal texts to regular text so I could view them taken off the 'net and postscript and it's illk. I'm more of info gathering when researching for vital info and archiving them and ones that requires what I don't have to decode them bothers me greatly. Xwin looks out of question for this. Run them from linux prompt is what I can do for now. I suspected so, Wirehead, you're right, X likes 486 at least 66mhz (my experience) with cache as asolutely MUST with quick hd that spouts lots of data and at least 16mb ram. I have looked at whole listing of processor classes and it's performance level by one s/w to get overall picture. 386 is very low level even at 40mhz and 256k cache especially for X needs, 486dx2 or dx4 as reasonable level. I had done that on a uncached 486dx2 50, yuk on X, great on linux. This also makes me having bit hard time deciding for choosing s/w for much older cpu's yet have snappy performance especially 386's. Right now, I'm haveing a lot of mental debating on reasons whys I should get the old PS/2 model 70 machine to save it for history and fun to use/importantly fiddle w/ it and look at. And cost 40 cdn to buy it. Hey, anyone who knows of better prices on IBM PS/2 cached 386-25 desktop/tower types, PS/2 P70 or P75? Then I would lean that way. If I gave 386 parts to my friend but knew most of my friends needs are beyond what I have so I'm stuck with them. Sigh. Jason D.